All language subtitles for Dear Zachary - A Letter To A Son About His Father

- Charismatic.
- Opinionated.

I'd have to point out he was short.

But he was a giant of a man.

Really a good storyteller.

He was completely selfless.

- Animated.
- Kind.

- Jubilant.
- Caring.

- Devilish.
- Laid-back, very approachable.

Can I say things

that are not completely
flattering and wonderful?

He had the capacity
to have the worst possible gas.

And he'd be proud of that.
"Yep!"

He wasn't a saint.
He was a hell of guy.

He was just so intelligent,

and, um, I'm gonna cry.

I'm sorry.

Why are you sad?
Why?

Oh, I'll tell you about it someday.

Do you know who that is?

Andrew.

Do you know who Andrew is?

I don't know.

Why did Andrew get killed?

Because somebody hurt him, buddy.

I'm an only child,
and I'll get around to why this

is of any importance whatsoever,

but, trust me, there's a theme.

Where were you when you found out?

Melanie, who's on the front desk,

calls back and says,

"Kate, there's a policeman from
Sunnyvale on the line for you.

Do you want to talk to him?"

And I said, "Oh, yes,
put it through to the office."

"Are you Kathleen Bagby?" I said yes.

"I've got a message
here from Pennsylvania.

You're to call this number.

It's the coroner's office.
You've got bad news."

I said, "Is my son dead?"

And he said,
"I can't tell you that, madam,

but you've got terrible news."

I dialed this number
that he'd given me.

And it was a man, an irate man.

The coroner's office was closed down.

There was nothing he could do about it.

"You have to call back
tomorrow morning."

I called back
to the Sunnyvale Police Station,

so he gave me another number,

and then I got through
to Sgt. Krulac, and he said,

"Your son is dead
under suspicious circumstances.

Have you got any idea
why he was in the park?"

I said, "My son is dead?
Murdered?"

He said yes.

And then I called David.

And I said to him,
"Andrew's dead."

And he said, "No!"

And I heard him throw the phone.

I called Sgt. Krulac back,
and I said, "We're coming,"

and he said,
"Well, that's good."

Through that flight,

we thought we'd go get Andrew,

bring him back to California,

get everything organized, whatever,

and then kill ourselves,
'cause no point in going on.

That was the first plan.

And then she gave me the list to call,

and we started calling.

I came home, and there was
a message from Barbara.

- Kate called me.
- It was Tuesday morning.

I was just coming out of surgery.

- I was doing something...
- I was in the living room.

How many people got
a kick in the head from this?

Everybody always says,

"What would be the difference
if one person weren't alive?"

I came home on November 7, 2001,

to find a message from my sister.

Hi. It's Heather.
It's about 9: 15.

At 3:41 p.m., I called her back.

She told me to sit down.

In the original news,

they said,
"Unidentified man in his 30s

was found in hospital scrubs."

None of those words
described who he was,

and they could put them on paper
and make them true.

Nobody said, "This person,

this wonderful person, was hurt."

We met in first grade

at St. Andrew's School
in Saratoga, California,

and I soon came to think of him
as my closest friend.

It was here,
in the San Jose Bay Area,

scattered across the suburbs
that make up Silicon Valley,

that we all grew up.

There was Chris.

Do I remember how I met Andrew?
It was second grade.

And Matt.

I can say without shame
that we bathed together.

Michelle.

He was the first friend I made
my first day of school.

Jon.

We met the first day of class

because of our names,
Atkinson and Bagby.

Olivier.

We talked for about 20, 30 minutes,

and I realized,
"Wow, this guy's pretty cool."

Heather.

Oh, I'm sure you got to hear
things I didn't get to hear.

Between the two of us,

we might actually be able to put
together a half-decent story.

And there was me.

My name's Kurt,
and I'm a filmmaker.

I'm Kurt Kuenne,
and I play Indiana Jones.

He appeared in every movie
I made growing up.

We made a movie!

He loved playing bad guys...

Shut up!

Jeff, get the cocaine.

A's, huh?
You must be a smart boy.

...and having
a free pass to smoke and swear

in front of his parents.

I will fuck you up!
Kiss my ass, you son of a bitch!

Christ, start the fucking car
and get out of here!

Fuck you!
Fuck all you fucking people!

I did not say the F-word.
I'm sorry.

Which was probably
kind of a cool release

for a kid who made
Eagle Scout by age 15.

Mrs. Bagby, having watched it

where Andrew was running around
yelling and screaming,

kind of went...

I can't really remember being...

"Oh, that's not my son!"

Perhaps you have a different idea

that I got all upset about it.

"Not my son!"

And, eventually,
I even got them in on the act.

Son of a bitch, you little shit!

You're a pain in the ass.

- You little bastard!
- Does that give you the right

to go yelling about
your penis on the air?

It wasn't always fun and games.

- You son of a bitch!
- Ow! Jesus!

Did I actually hit you?

- I didn't hurt your hand, did I?
- Yes, but don't worry about it.

And if you knee me in the balls
again, I'm going to kill you.

And I know I drove him nuts sometimes.

Could you do that one more time?

- One more time.
- Okay, one more time.

One more time.

I want to see that one more
time. That was perfect.

The famous "one more time" line.

If I hear him say
"one more time" one more time,

I'm gonna wring his neck!

Jesus Christ, Kurt.
What do you want?

No, no.
I'm just getting...

But despite it all,
he always supported me.

Kurt, another winner!
Yes!

My God, what are you trying to do?

Give our genius a heart attack?

None of that.
What, do we kiss now or... Oh!

He even invested
in my first feature film

while he was working to save
for medical school.

Everything was perfect.

I don't know what happened.

We got bigger, and we got laid!

At his memorial service,

I talked with his med-school
friend Anthony, who told me...

One of the major things
that Andrew and I did together,

or that we had in common,
was photography.

I had no idea he took pictures,

and I'd known him for 22 years.

What else didn't I know?

I was never going to get
to visit him at his hospital

and see what he was like as a doctor.

I would never be going to his wedding

where I would finally meet his
entire family at the reception.

He would never be telling me

anything I didn't already know
about him.

So I decided to make this movie,
to travel far and wide,

to interview everyone
who ever knew and loved him,

to learn everything there was to know,

and to make one last movie with him.

I had no idea
how many years it would take

or how I would even know
when I was done.

But the longer I waited,
the more memories would be lost.

So I started at home in California,

and, as soon as I could,
I grabbed a camera.

Okay, Andrew, ready?

- And said...
- Action!

How would I describe Andrew to
someone who had never met him?

The man never wore pants.
He only wore shorts.

That's right.
Constantly!

Well,
Andrew was very good at pool.

Quite frankly, he was
a pool shark, is what he was.

Well, he had a good teacher.

When we first met him, he had
this thing with his fingernails.

Oh, yeah, he'd always
bite his fingernails.

They looked like they'd been
through a shredder.

Too late.

He was probably the most
determined person I've ever met

about doing a particular profession.

His mom worked in the business,
so...

We would sit and discuss
a topic like venereal disease.

He didn't get an offer
to come to medical school

at the end of the first year.

I remember that was a big downer.

I think he felt like he wasn't

like things were
kind of stalled for him

and he wasn't really...

he wasn't living up to expectations.

"Well, what are you gonna do?"

"Okay, I'll get a job,
and I'll apply again."

Okay.

And then, of course, Heather
brought home this application

she had picked up from Memorial
University of Newfoundland.

I had to go look up St. John's
on the map

when he got accepted there.

I knew,
"That's over in the east coast."

He's now engaged to this lovely girl,

and he's gonna go to med school.
It was great.

Graduation, he was in shorts.

Hold on a second.
We'll come back to this.

But before we go any further,

you've got to know what happened.

The whole truth.

So here it is.

A couple of policemen met us
at the airport in Pittsburgh.

Took us over to the hospital.

Bill and Clark picked us up

and took us over to Bacha's
Funeral Home in Greensburg.

And then he took us down a stairway.

Gurney at the other end...

with a white sheet over a body.

And...

...went over to him and when
we could see his face...

...I said, "It's really him."

I kissed him and held him,

and Kate kissed him and held him
and kissed him some more.

Tears are dropping on him,
of course,

and Kate went to wipe
one of those away off his cheek,

and a plug came out where he'd
been shot in the left cheek.

Oh, God.

She pushed it back in
and cried some more.

After that, I lost it.
I just ran outside and screamed.

I was so fucking mad,
I couldn't see straight.

God damn it, I hated.
I've never hated like that.

Didn't even know who I hated.
Didn't know who it was then.

Just knew that somebody
purposely put him there.

Whoever that is is a monster.

Well, who hurt him?

A very bad person.

Which bad person?

- A lady?
- Mm-hmm.

What's her name?

Shirley.

Shirley?

Why'd she kill him?

I couldn't figure out who
she was in relation to Andrew

since Andrew talked a lot about women

but never really mentioned her.

Collette,
this is Bagby's new girlfriend.

Makes me sick to my stomach now,

but I was so excited
that he was dating somebody.

Come on, Shirley.
Get out from behind him.

I knew he'd been struggling

with me moving on
and dating other people.

- Or maybe you will.
- You already met me!

I was excited at the thought
that maybe he had found somebody

that he, you know,
could really be happy with.

But it didn't turn out that way.

- Did you know her?
- Yeah.

Do you remember
when they started dating?

Mm-hmm.

She just kind of appeared,

and then she was there
all the time all of a sudden.

And just didn't seem suited for him.

He did say that there was
a considerable age difference.

And then the second time
I heard him talk about it,

he actually fessed
to the age difference,

and I was like, "Holy shit!"

Shirley's got three kids!
Whoo-hoo!

A person like that isn't just,
like, completely normal

and then, one day,
they become a psycho, you know?

I mean,
there had to be some signs.

She'd just be really
inappropriate with things.

Poor taste,
things that she would say.

She was always making
sexually inappropriate comments.

But never threatening.

We never thought of her
as being threatening,

but, just,
something was a little off.

Something wasn't right.

She started calling me
on a regular basis.

She talked forever.

Crude things about
their intimate relationship.

But I thought it was kind of odd
when I met her

that she was not practicing.

She had finished residency
for quite some time,

and yet she was having trouble
getting her credentials.

Nobody said anything
'cause we all respected Andrew.

And if he wasn't putting the
pieces together or something,

it just makes me think
he was just not caring.

He was likely 4,000 miles away

from where he wanted to be
for the rest of his life.

He had had a very difficult,

kind of heartbreaking type
of situation with Heather.

Whatever happened with their breakup

really kind of devastated him

and just left him vulnerable
to someone like Shirley.

"Andrew!

You know you can do a lot better."

He said,
"Ah, no, I really can't."

He'd poke fun at himself all the time.

He'd say he was a short,
portly little fella.

You don't need to go out with a woman

because you can't
think you can do better.

It was a comfort.

And, in Newfoundland,
it was somebody to be around

and he enjoyed it.

Oh, it's just a senior-year thing.

After graduation,
he came back to the U.S.

to do a surgery residency
in Syracuse, New York,

and he was miserable.

He hated it.

Shirley also decided to move
to the States to practice.

We were not very aware
of his year in Syracuse,

what a problem she became to him there.

Was a real hard year for him.

There was really no time for anything.

And the fact
that there was this somebody

that was making a lot of effort

to maintain a relationship with him

and represented something else
besides the misery

that it sounded like his internship was

was hard for him to pass up.

He pretty quickly realized
that surgery wasn't for him

and switched
to a family-practice residency

in Latrobe, Pennsylvania,

in July of 2001.

And he loved it.

He said, "When you finally find
that thing

that you know is your niche,

it's worth everything in the world."

And he now wanted her to go away.

He did not invite her
to Matt's wedding.

Yeah, and she thought
she was going to be coming.

She just already had it arranged.

The morning of the wedding,

Andrew's cellphone started ringing.

And he'd answer it,
and it's Shirley.

A minute or two later, it'd ring
again, and it's her again.

Andrew got more and more upset
with her.

"What is your fucking problem?"
And he clicked off the phone.

She left 30-some-odd messages
on his phone.

His phone in his house rang,
like, 30 times.

Then his cellphone rang 30 times.

He's like, "Oh, it's her.
I don't want to talk with her."

Apparently,
Andrew had already asked Shirley

to accompany him to Karl and
Marci's wedding, October 20th,

before July.

He had broken up with her
a month before in his mind.

It sounds so easy,
but it's hard

when you're a genuine person who cares.

He didn't know
how to be a son of a bitch

because he wasn't a son of a bitch.

Shirley had been really,
like, all over Andrew.

Just acting possessive of him.

On the afternoon
of Saturday, November 3, 2001,

he broke up with Shirley
once and for all

over lunch at the airport
in Latrobe, Pennsylvania.

Then he put her on a plane

back to her place
in Council Bluffs, Iowa,

1,000 miles away.

I remember the morning
that Shirley showed up.

He said, "You'll never guess

who showed up on my doorstep at 5:30."

And I said, "Who?"
He said, "The psychotic bitch."

And I told him, I said,
"You know, Andrew,

when I break up with somebody
and put them on a plane

and send them 1,300 miles away,

they knock on my front door,

I'm going out the back door
and I'm calling the police."

He said, "What do you mean?"

I said, "Andrew."

I said, "Be serious.

Nobody drives 16 hours

after you've just broken up with them."

I said,
"Do not meet her in private."

He said, "What can happen?"

And he said, "I'm gonna
need to catch up with you

and we're gonna have to do
some serious talking."

I said, "Bring some beer.
I only live a block away.

When do you think you'll be done?"

He said, "Well, it's 4:30 now.

Meeting her at 6:00.

7:30, I'll be at your house."

Things people should know about Andrew.

He was never late.

And you know what?

When Andrew didn't show up at 7:30,

I knew something was very wrong.

Well, let me tell you
the events of the day.

Andrew didn't show up
for morning report.

Morning report ended around 8:00.

I went down to my office.
I called Andrew's house.

Hi.
You've reached Andrew Bagby.

Please leave a message
at the tone. Thank you.

Called his cellphone.
"Andrew, where are you at?"

No answer on either one.

As I recall,
we're getting pretty close

to 9:00 in the morning,

and Rhonda and I
and some of the residents

are starting to get a little nervous.

I remember Bill coming in

and standing in front of the television

and telling us.

"They found a body in scrubs
out at Keystone Park."

Dead silence fell over.

A heaviness like I've never felt.

And eventually almost everyone
was congregated there

just waiting for more news.

Rhonda got the call,
and she said to me,

"They need you in Mr. Clark's
office right now."

And I remember my heart pounding,

going up at damn near a sprint.

I opened the door,
and I remember seeing

three Pennsylvania State Police
troopers in uniform

sitting in the room.

And I said, "You're here
to tell me about Andrew Bagby."

They asked for us all to gather
in the conference room.

- And they closed the door.
- He cleared his throat.

He just walked right up
to the podium and he said...

"Andrew Bagby is dead."

I said, "Well, hell,
you don't have to look far."

They're like,
"What do you mean?"

I said, "This woman was in town.
She was here."

I said, "Find her, and I think
you'll find who did this."

A summary of the evidence
against Shirley Turner.

He was found on the morning
of Tuesday, November 6th,

laying behind his car in a parking lot

at Keystone State Park
in Derry Township, Pennsylvania.

A man walking through Keystone Park

at 6: 10 p.m. the previous
evening, November 5th,

had seen his black Toyota
Corolla parked next to an SUV.

This was 10 minutes

after he told Clark
he was going to meet Shirley.

"Meeting her at 6:00."

Shirley drove a Toyota RAV4 SUV.

He was shot five times.

In the face, the chest,

twice in the buttocks,
and in the back of the head.

He also received a blunt trauma
to the back of the head.

That didn't sound random.

That sounded like rage and vengeance.

The ammunition used
was CCI.22-caliber bullets.

There were six spent casings
and one live round

on the ground beside him.

Shirley owned a Phoenix Arms
.22-caliber handgun.

She had three lessons
with a firearms instructor

who said that at her last lesson

she was using CCI.22-caliber ammunition

and her gun malfunctioned

and would sometimes eject
live rounds onto the ground.

Then she said,
"No, I can't find it."

Then she said,
"I gave the gun to Andrew."

She claimed she was home sick all day

on Monday, November 5th.

The cellphone records show
that a phone call was made

here, here, here, and here.

While she claims to be home in bed,

she's making cellphone calls
from Chicago, Illinois,

at 7:08 and 7: 10 p.m.
on Sunday, November 4th.

Then another from South Bend, Indiana,

at 10: 19 p.m. that night.

Then another
from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,

at 8:07 a.m. the next
morning, November 5th,

the day he was killed.

She logged on to eBay that morning

from his computer at his house.

And back again.

At 11:26 p.m. that night,

she makes another call
from Cleveland, Ohio,

clearly on her way home this time.

Then another call from Stuart, Iowa,

at 9:48 a.m. the next morning,
Tuesday, November 6th.

Then another once she got home
to Council Bluffs.

And this one's to him.

But when she realized

that she couldn't possibly
be sick in bed

when she'd been caught
making cellphone calls

from Pennsylvania and back,

she changed her story again.

Then she said, "I gave the gun
to Andrew in the parking lot,

and I saw him put it in his trunk."

And that clearly shows if she
did this, she planned it.

She is a manipulative,
deceitful planner of a murder.

In order to prove her whereabouts

when she made these phone calls,

each individual cell tower
along her 16-hour drive

had to be manually checked,

which was a process
that took almost two weeks.

While the police were uncovering
this crucial piece of evidence,

Shirley left the United States

for her home
in St. John's, Newfoundland.

We were absolutely helpless

for the whole time we were in Latrobe

after this initial nightmare.

The other residents and Andrew's...

They're Andrew friends now...

came in, sat with us,
brought us meals.

and sit and cry with us

and cry some more.

Great people.

The whole hospital grieved.
It was profound.

Just picture the masses
that just came out for that.

From memorials
in Newfoundland to California

to England.

- To St. Louis.
- To Latrobe.

I'm so proud to say
that I loved him so very much.

I'd be happy if I had 1/10
the people care 1/2 about me

as much as they did Andrew.

I know at the point
we had the memorial service,

she was back in Canada.

She was there at the memorial
service that we had here.

She broke down crying
during the service

and sobbing really loud,

and, you know, I wonder if it
wasn't all just for a show.

And then fear at that point for,
you know, Heather's safety.

She came up

and sort of butted one
of my friends out beside me

and said just awful things

and, obviously,
I cared a lot more about him

than he ever cared about me.

And I definitely
wasn't important in his life.

Got an e-mail from Shirley.

A horrible, scathing e-mail.

It was all basically,

I was nothing,
and she was everything.

How wonderful their love was
and how that'll never die now.

To try to lure her
back to the United States,

Shirley was invited to the
memorial service in California,

but she didn't take the bait.

So, finally, she was charged.

She was arrested
in St. John's, Newfoundland,

on December 12, 2001,

and was let go on bail
the very same day.

And then this flight risk.

It seemed to me common sense
that if she isn't

in the jurisdiction
where they want her, she's fled.

Crown Prosecutor Mike Madden
did not even argue

against her release on bail

and instead entered the courtroom

with an agreement already
in place for her release.

Pending the next hearing

in the extradition process
to the United States,

all Justice David Russell
required Shirley to do

was post $75,000 in sureties.

$65,000 of this was posted
by her personal psychiatrist,

but I'll come back to him.

Turn in her passports,

sign in once a week
at the local police station,

promise not to leave Newfoundland,

and avoid contact with these people.

And with that,
the government of Canada

let a probable pre-meditated
first-degree murderer

walk the streets.

- I thought it was crazy.
- Should never be.

- Should never have been.
- I thought it was insane.

Who the hell is the system protecting?

I could not believe this was happening.

But the most unbelievable part
was when we found out about you.

Kurt, this is Matt Oetinger.

I just got a call from Mrs. Bagby.

The abbreviated version is
what's her bucket, that bitch,

held a press conference

and announced she's 4 months pregnant

with Andrew's baby.

They can't prove it
until the child's born.

If it is true, the Bagbys
are going to sue for custody.

My movie now took on
a whole new meaning.

It was no longer just my search
for what was left of your dad.

It might be the only way you
could one day go back in time,

see, and get to know him.

This is a time machine.

Yes.
A time machine.

And I vowed to collect
every memory for you

before they were gone.

So, finally, I set off.
First, I would go to England

to interview your grandma's
side of the family for you.

Then I'd return to the U.S.

to do an epic road trip
across North America.

I'd start on the west coast
of California and motor east,

stopping to interview all of
your dad's friends and family

along the way.

And I would keep driving
until the land ran out

in St. John's, Newfoundland,

the eastern-most point
in all of North America,

where the last living piece
of Andrew, you,

would be waiting for me.

I grabbed a digital video camera,

a 16mm wind-up movie camera,
and an old Nikon.

I have a good idea.

I'll go back in time
and stop you from dying.

And set off on a quest
to bring your dad back to life.

And while I raced to rescue
your history,

your grandma and grandpa
quit their jobs,

dug into their savings,
and gave up everything

to move to Newfoundland
to fight for your future.

I met Kate and David
in the spring of 2002.

I'll never forget it.

They needed a lawyer to assist them

in making sure that their rights

and the baby's rights
were protected, I guess.

I instantly liked them.

I thought that it was so important

that they have a relationship
with that child.

Our lawyer Jackie
went to see Betty Day,

an administrator somewhere
in the hierarchy

of Child Protective Services,

and told her that we,
the Bagbys,

are concerned
about the safety of the baby

because the mother is accused
of a pre-meditated murder.

To me, I thought they were
very emotionally intelligent

in how they were bearing up

under all of this incredible stress.

You know,
that was a Sunday afternoon.

The next morning,

they had to sit in the courtroom
and look at her.

When your grandma and grandpa
first arrived in Canada,

they were told,
"The law is slow."

And they weren't kidding.

February 15th.

Prosecutor Mike Madden acknowledged

that the extradition request
had been received.

They adjourned until March 11th,

when they decided they'd reconvene

to select a date
for the extradition hearing

on March 25th,
where they decided

to set the date
for the extradition hearing

for May 27th, where they got
caught up debating

the French-versus-English translations

of Section 32 of the Extradition Act,

and decided to adjourn

for a specific translation
until June 11th,

a hearing which lasted five minutes,

at which Judge Derek Green

said he wasn't in a position
to rule on the translation

and they would adjourn again
until July 30th.

And while they waited for
justice and for you to arrive,

your grandma and grandpa made
a new home and new friends.

They made friends all over St. John's.

People in the legal community,
the medical community.

But here at St. Michael's,

yeah, they got right in there
and got right involved.

It seems like they've always been here.

Basically, they have more
friends in Newfoundland now

than we do.

Well,
it's a very small province.

The land mass is as big as...

Well, maybe not quite as big
as California,

but not far off.

And yet we only have 530,000 population

scattered over that land mass.

You can't go anywhere in St. John's

without running into somebody you know.

I mean, it's the oldest city
in North America.

It's a very safe place, I think.

The big drawback against living here

is getting out of here.

The weather here is terrible.
The weather is awful.

We have 8 months of winter
and 4 months of bad weather.

And the other very consistent
thing that I hear

is that the people are so friendly.

How would you describe them

to someone who had
never met them before?

Oh, do you have an hour?

I was hoping you would ask me
about Kate and David,

who are very...

Young at heart.

Childish.
That's not the right word.

He's an engineer
in the truest sense of the word.

The guy likes Pintos, okay?

Logical.

Does things in steps,
logical steps.

Comparing Andrew as a teenager
and Dave as a teenager,

- they're almost twins.
- He's the older model.

- It was wonderful.
- It was wonderful.

He always calls you "mate,"
his father does."Mate."

"How you doing, mate?"

And Kate calls you "love."

Oh, I thought she was feisty.

Like a little ball of fire.

She's so tiny, and then
big things come out of her.

It's great if she's on your side

because she'll always stand
up for what she believes in

and those that she loves.

They're a rare pair.

They were from the start.

In itself, it's quite a story,
their marriage, you know.

I was going to come here
for the two years,

then I was going on to Australia
for two years,

work my way around the world.

And then I was going back to Devon.

And I wasn't going to get married

because that was not on my list
of things to do at all.

I was in the Navy,

stationed on an aircraft
carrier, the Hornet,

in Long Beach, California.

A guy came into the shop
one day, E.T., electronics shop,

and said he had two English nurses

who wanted to go to Disneyland.

We were too cheap to pay the fare.

Yeah, two cheap English nurses.

And I took the little one

and left him with the tall one.

And, uh, they didn't work out
so well, but we did.

We went out 13 times
in the first two weeks.

And he could quote Shakespeare,
by the way,

so I knew it was all right.

Five months later, I'm married.

So we moved down to San Diego
and started working on a baby.

But nothing happened.

We tried to get pregnant
for a year, two years,

with no result.

At some point, they mentioned
that they might adopt.

And then, I mean,
it was like a miracle.

Coming to St. Louis and sleeping
in my mother's bedroom

seemed to make people pregnant.

And then, of course,
Andrew didn't come.

He was two weeks late.

Things people should know about Andrew.

He was never late.

Hi. It's Heather.
It's 9:00 Thursday.

Shirley went into labor
around 3:00 in the afternoon,

Newfoundland time.

On July 18, 2002, you were born.

Shirley named you
Zachary Andrew Turner.

You grandma and grandpa came
to the hospital to see you,

but Shirley wouldn't let them
in the door.

The stood five feet away from
you on the other side of a wall.

They left a gift for you.

Well,
your dad was an amazing person.

You're gonna get such a broad range

of different perspectives of this guy.

You're gonna know
what his character was like

and you're gonna know
what fun he was to be with

and you're gonna know
that you can be proud of him.

I flew to England
to collect the memories

of your grandma's side
of the family for you

and arrived just in time
for a very special occasion.

Well, we're on the eve
of my wedding, for a start.

It's been a bit hectic.

We're just trying to fit this interview

in between all of the preparations.

Your dad crossed the Atlantic to
come here almost every summer,

but instead of heading to the
tourist attractions in London

like everyone else,

he'd head to the outskirts

to spend time
with his grandparents, aunts,

uncles, and cousins.

He was a king to me, man.
Seriously, man.

And, in particular,
with his cousin John.

The main thing, I guess,
about being an only child

is that I get to choose my brothers.

Others of you don't.
Sorry.

John, me brother, and Andrew

were born within a month of each other.

In fact, I think
it was about 30 seconds

of the normal child,
"Who are you? Who are you?"

And then suddenly, snap,
that was it.

We often said at least
they would have each other

through life.

John would always have Andrew,

and Andrew would always have John.

For me, kind of blur
into this haze of me and Andrew

running around castles,
country homes, gardens.

I mean, these fantastic
historical places.

And, to us, they were places
to play hide and seek,

buy water pistols,
shoot each other,

and then get told off and thrown out.

The interesting thing always was,

just like the cultural differences

between someone coming from the U.S.

and someone in the U.K.

That used to really bug me,

the fact that I knew he was
going to get "Star Wars"

kind of 6 months before me,
that was a killer.

'Cause, you know, it'd be like,

"Don't you dare tell me anything
about this film!"

He was almost kind of, as well,
my kind of chaperone

into discovering the U.S.,
really.

You hear people discriminate
against a whole country

just in one fell swoop.

But I was fortunate enough to
know very differently to that.

I really cherish that,

because it is my brother
that got married here tonight.

Bizarrely enough,
one of the things

is I always wanted Andrew
to be my best man at my wedding.

As I would soon find out,
he was in good company.

I had always wanted him
to be my best man.

I had asked him to be my best man.

It just made sense
to have him as best man.

I can only assume
that you would have asked him

to be your best man.

Everybody grab your glass.

We're gonna turn it over
to the best man, Andrew.

Best man's a little bit of a
poor title for these things.

I mean,
the best man's really the groom.

I've got to try and sum up
20-some-odd years

in, like, 2 minutes or so,

'cause, you know,
then people will start looking

at their champagne and thinking,
"Bagby, shut up or die."

I miss him.

A lot.

That I wish he was here
at the wedding with us.

That I'd just like to sit him down

and talk to him again.

Just to have him here with us.

I really believe
your dad was there that day.

And if we could have heard him
give his toast,

it might have sounded
something like this...

Why am I standing up here?

I guess part of it I've already said.

We're brothers and I love you

and I know you love me and...

Yeah. I kind of need to move on
from that.

'Cause, like I said,
I'm a Bagby male.

We don't gush very much.

It made me realize

that it doesn't matter
where you come from.

You can meet someone
and, literally, within minutes,

you can be closer than someone
you've known for 20 years.

And someone who'll maybe
just end up being a friend

for the rest of your life.

And last question.

Is there anything
you'd like to say to Zachary?

Zachary.

Right.

Yeah, I hope to see you soon,
Zachary, anyway.

Jackie had been down earlier
in the day to file the papers

that we wanted custody of the baby.

We finally went to court.

- You mean family court.
- Yes, family court.

You know,
they negotiated with her.

I think you know that already,

and what access they got
with Shirley, they negotiated.

We're coming up with agreements
with this accused murderer.

And then Shirley Turner came up
with something else

just at the moment
when it was all looking good.

She always did that
so that it was extended.

It was like, "I don't have to
pay for my lawyer.

You have to pay for yours,

so the longer I can make it,
it's better.

You'll run out of money."

But then she finally agreed
to give us one hour a week

in Unified Family Court.

Shirley delayed your grandma
and grandpa from meeting you

for almost a month

and had them treated like common
criminals in order to see you.

She required that during
their one-hour visit,

they be fully searched
and monitored by a supervisor

while she waited in the next room.

When did you first meet him?

Meet him personally or meet him

by seeing the light
in Kate and David's eyes?

I mean, we were searched
and everything.

I couldn't wait for them to search.

I would've zipped off
all my clothes and been...

as long as I could get
into that baby, you know?

We went around the corner,

and there was this overpowering thing.

We did not do complete
tug-of-war, though.

I just gave him to Kate.

No, no, no.

- We shared.
- We took turns.

The next visit, he was really...

The next time, he was dirty,
so I changed his diaper.

And that's when he opened his
eyes to just kind of look at me,

and that's when I said to David,
"Oh, my God, he's Andrew."

I had seen lots of pictures
of Andrew at this point

and even pictures of him as a child

and I thought, "Holy crow,"
you know."There's no doubt."

She accused us
of keeping him beyond the time

so that he was distraught
when he went back to her.

She'd try a lot of manipulations
without thinking them through.

If she accuses us of doing
anything wrong to the baby,

she's indirectly accusing
Maureen of being a slouch.

- The supervisor?
- The supervisor.

You know,
Maureen's not gonna take that.

While your grandparents
and Jackie battled Shirley

for more time with you in family court,

the law in the extradition
proceedings was still slow.

September 19th.

The extradition hearing finally began,

and evidence was finally presented.

But just as everything
was moving along smoothly,

Shirley's lawyer Randy Piercey
threw a wrench into the works.

Because the "authority to
proceed" with these hearings

provided by the minister
of justice early that year

had failed to specify
subsections (i) or (ii)

of Section 229(a) of the criminal code,

the authority to proceed was invalid,

the 90-day limit to amend it
was now past,

and therefore all extradition
proceedings against Shirley

should be dropped so she could
get on with her life.

Judge Derek Green now
had to rule on whether or not

to throw out the entire case,

which would take place on October 18th,

which was delayed four days
until October 22nd,

where Judge Green told Piercey
to forget about it

and said they would continue
with the extradition hearing

on November 14th.

Meanwhile,
I came back to California,

pointed the van east
toward Newfoundland

and set off across the continent
on my way to see you,

stopping all over the map
to collect the memories

of a whole spectrum of people
your dad touched.

But it was when I pulled into St. Louis

to see your grandpa's family...

- Are you the oldest?
- Yeah, I'm the oldest.

Bob was the middle one.

He's one year younger than me.

...that I discovered
a very special place

where your dad had left his heart.

Andrew and Bob were very, very close.

To see them around each other,
you'd think that Andrew

had grown up his entire life
around Bob.

You wouldn't know that it was
a once-a-summer relationship.

Bob used to take Andrew out
and let him drive the truck

before he was old enough.

And they'd play pool.

And my dad was very good at pool,

but then Mack came along who was
even probably better at pool.

I would say he was excellent,
but he wasn't as good as me.

He probably still owes me
around $30,000.

Okay, Mack is my daughter
Rhonda's first husband.

I don't know.
They just clicked.

I mean, they just clicked.
I can't explain why or anything.

Automatically my little brother.

That's the way I looked at it,
you know.

We just become friends.

This is our clubhouse
that me and Bob had.

And he used to love to come down here.

As soon as he'd hit town,

we'd come down here
and just stay for days.

Dave and Katie and them would come out.

Always have a big barbecue or fish fry.

Get the johnboat and head up the river.

He was the captain.

Me and Bob got to the point
where we didn't even think about

who was gonna drive the boat
if Andrew was here.

At nighttime, they'd stack up
logs and build a bonfire.

And we'd buy fireworks,
you know.

It'd be beautiful 'cause
it was real dark out there.

"That's really stupid, me
checking to see if you're hurt

when you're gonna be a damn doctor.

You ought to know yourself."

I said, "If you're smart,
you'll be a gynecologist."

Doctor came into the room
and said he had bad news.

He said that the cancer had spread

to his bones and to his liver.

Bob looked at him and said,
"I want the truth."

He said, "3 to 6 months."

I mean, I can come down here
anytime I want.

I just don't have time anymore,
really.

I lost...

I lost total interest
in a lot of things

when Bob died, for some reason.

I know it was hard on Andrew,
too.

'Cause he wrote me
a little note, a letter.

Bob was very proud of him.

Imagine him and Andrew
are laughing at me right now.

Both assholes.

Are you sad now?

Yeah, I'm still sad.

I'll be okay.

Come here.
Come give me a hug.

He was great.

If there's anything I can do,
I'll be there.

Well, we hope to see him.

And we can show him pictures
and everything.

We'd love to be a part of that as well.

To share our lives with him.

Oh, how I wish I could be there
and pinch those little cheeks.

Zachary, you'll never know
what you missed.

On November 14, 2002,

Judge Derek Green declared
that a properly instructed jury

could likely find Shirley guilty

and ordered her incarcerated

in the Clarenville
Correctional Centre for Women,

awaiting a decision
from the minister of justice

to surrender her to the United States.

She always seemed to know
exactly when to turn nice.

And it was a pretty obvious time
to turn nice.

Suddenly, Shirley turned around

and gave your grandma
and grandpa custody of you

for as long as she was in prison.

We could stop in and see him
whenever we liked.

And we did.

They were so excited,
it was Christmas Eve,

and, you know, it had started
to snow a little bit.

The doorbell was ringing,

and someone showed up with a present.

And then Alan Goodridge,
he was a professor,

one of Andrew's professors,
he showed up with something.

I don't know what.

And then, you know,
finally, I said, "What?

Have you got the Magi
showing up at your house?"

He was besotted with them,
the child was.

You know,
no one could comfort him.

Only Kate.

They were so happy.

But it wasn't all sweetness and light.

You came with strings attached.

The reason we reached consent

and the reason she reached consent

is if you reach consent,
you have some control.

We'd accept a phone call a day
from jail to talk about Zachary.

This is Aliant Telecom.

- You have a collect call from...
- Shirley.

You may press 1 now
to accept the charges.

- Hello?
- Hi.

We'd bring him up to the prison
for a weekly visit.

That was astounding.

Imposition.

Each week,
they would drive two hours

to the jail where Shirley was

so that she would be able
to see her son

and to follow the visitation rights,

because just as Kate and David
wanted visitation rights,

they had to honor
Shirley's visitation rights.

And in the winter.

But the weather, needless
to say, in Newfoundland.

The weather here is terrible.

To make that journey was awful.

Only Kate and David would have
done it, really, I think.

Nobody else would have done it.

The one guard, the one day,
said to Kate and David,

speaking to Zachary,

"Zachary, I hope some day
you will realize

how brave and courageous
your grandparents are."

Just to see the looks
on their faces, Kurt,

when they'd have him, you know.

You know, to see them so happy.

And then, you know,
that ended, didn't it?

Now crossing the east coast
of the U.S.,

I was almost to you.

I pulled off the main road
for one last stop,

a small-town utopia

where your dad had spent the
last four months of his life.

It was here that I would find
the only people

who knew what he was like as a doctor,

just days before they would graduate

and scatter to the winds.

Latrobe is famous for Mr. Rogers.

Of children's TV fame.

Rolling Rock beer.

It's the birthplace
of professional football,

though some would argue that.

At Strickler's Pharmacy,

I'm told that the banana split
was invented here in Latrobe.

And Arnold Palmer.

Mr. Palmer's a very important
figure in this community.

This is a community where people
don't even lock their doors.

Your dad's door

was directly across the street
from the hospital,

giving him a 30-second commute to work.

And I said,
"Can I call you 'Andy'?"

And he goes, "Actually,
I don't like Andy."

He said,
"You can call me 'Andrew,'

you can call me 'Bagby,'
you can call me 'Bags'."

I never did.

Ten minutes after I arrived,

Dr. Bill DiCuccio picked me up
to show me around town.

His class, it was Bill DiCuccio.

And after hanging with Bill
for a short while,

I completely understood why.

This is yours to take with you
in your travels

to remember
the Chief Resident's office.

They were like Mutt and Jeff.

They were Tweedledee and Tweedledum.

Bill was just devastated, as
we all were, but especially so.

I think Bill had spent more time
with him.

And I know there was
a third-year resident, Clark,

who was quite close with him.

He was this surgical resident
from Syracuse.

Being a former surgical intern,
that's a big deal.

They're all about cutting,

and what we do
is a little bit different.

It's more about people.

I would say to him,
"Now, you go out there

and you listen to the heart
and you talk to those people

because, you know, people talk.

They're not just unconscious
all the time."

Your dad also had an office
visit every Monday afternoon

at the last place
he was ever seen alive,

a clinic in the small town
of Saltsburg,

a beautiful 30-minute drive away
through the country,

past a lovely spot
called Keystone State Park.

He was already,
just within a couple of months,

already getting patients to call
and specifically ask for him.

Hi. I'm Dr. Bagby.

People trusted him
when he walked into a room.

'Cause medicine's
a little like being a detective.

Has anyone else in your family
experienced this?

When you think of people
who have passed,

you can't help but paint
a rosy glow around them.

More than half of it

is being able to get a story
out of somebody.

It's not what's happening in this case.

I'll always be grateful to him

because he diagnosed
my nephew's cancer.

He diagnosed it early enough

that he was able to get
complete treatment.

He was really pretty outstanding
at this stuff.

He was told he may never have children.

He just has a newborn baby.

He always told me

that he wanted to practice
in a town the size of Latrobe

and be like the doc of the town.

Know everybody,
know everybody's family.

And we really thought
he'd found heaven.

But we packed our bags,
went to bed,

'cause we knew we were leaving
the next morning.

And we stayed in the upstairs
spare bedroom of Andrew's house.

The next morning,
we saw him off at 6:30.

And as I say,
that's when I noticed

he was blinking for the first time.

And he did that
when he was a little boy

when he was nervous
or worried about something.

Just blink.
Blink, blink.

And I wanted to say to him,
"Oh, Andrew, what's the matter?"

He stood up.

And I remember he looked at us
such a long time.

But he came over and
he kissed me and kissed his dad.

And then he got halfway into that room

and he came back and kissed us again,

and we went with him and he
kissed us again at the door.

And then he got
across the hospital there,

down that alley and just went...

And he was gone.

That was the last time
until we saw him dead.

And I can remember Andrew saying,

"If I die tomorrow,

all I want you to do is sit
and toast a beer to me."

Do you remember that?

When his parents had finished
cleaning out his apartment,

they gave me his last beer.

We have one bottle remaining.

We're gonna crack Andrew's
last Fuller's ESB right now,

and Kurt and I
are gonna sip it together.

A little toast to our friend.

To Andrew, my good friend,
I can't wait to see you again.

And then, of course,
the unthinkable happened again.

They let her out of jail again.

And we had to give him back

on January 10, 2003.

Shirley was out of money
and out of a lawyer,

so she wrote directly
to Judge Derek Green,

who responded through his secretary

with instructions
on how to write her own appeal

of his decision to incarcerate her

while awaiting an order
from the minister of justice

to surrender her to the States.

I have a few friends who are judges,

and there's no way

they would ever have responded

in the way that judge responded
to Shirley.

She did and was let back
onto the streets by...

Judge Gale Welsh.

Judge Gale Welsh.

Welsh refused to even consider

Prosecutor Mike Madden's argument

that Shirley's appeal was frivolous,

even though multiple
Legal Aid Commission attorneys

had reviewed her appeal

and refused to waste their time
representing her.

And if you could have seen her,

I knew that we were going to be
seeing Shirley Turner walk free

the minute that woman walked
into the room, Judge Welsh.

She was almost fawning with
Shirley Turner, as I saw it.

"Oh, Dr. Turner," she said.

"I recognize
that you're not represented

but also know that, as a doctor,
you're quite capable,

so I'm going to run...

Dr. Turner,
I'm not trying to exclude you,

however the argument
would work to your benefit.

That's why I'm particularly interested

in Mr. Madden's response."

I'd taken Zachary to prison.

I'd sat in that same little room
with her.

And here I am having to listen to this

and the judge fawn on this woman.

And Welsh actually asked
an accused murderer

to promise she'd behave herself.

"If I make an order giving you
judicial interim release,

it would be on the basis that
you would not attempt to flee

or hide or avoid subsequent
judicial proceedings

related to this matter?"

"Yes."

"Is that completely understood by you?"

"Yes, I completely understand."

And here are David and I
as if we don't even exist.

And we don't exist.
They don't care about us.

They don't even care about the victim.

She concluded that...

And this is from her written decision.

"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary

in the public interest.

While the offence
with which she is charged

is a violent and serious one,

it was not directed
at the public at large.

There is no indication
of a psychological disorder

that would give concern

about potential harm
to the public generally,

as her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."

She is saying, in effect,
if I understand that sentence,

even if she did it, she's not
a danger to the community

because she's already killed
the only one she wanted to kill.

He's the one she was mad at.

He's dead.

So she's not likely to kill again.

And I find that logic
absolutely atrocious.

Most of us do not kill people
who anger us.

We go kick a door,
scream and shout,

some of us throw a punch,

but we don't set them up and kill them.

You have here a human being

who thinks they have the right

to kill other people who anger them.

And you still let them out
in the general populace.

I find that appalling.

She was again let go
on $75,000 in sureties,

not one penny of which had to be paid.

And with that,
the government of Canada

let a probable pre-meditated
first-degree murderer

walk the streets again.

And they gave you back to her.

And after that,
things got really weird.

We went and wrote
another consent order.

And we agreed to a schedule of visits

with 3 or 4 hours three times a week

and an overnight every two weeks.

We got them to let us have
more contact with Shirley

- in order to...
- Pass him back and forth.

Otherwise,
we never could have done it.

Because we've always had to
arrange for a third party.

And then that third party
would be not available.

And we saw that we'd never get
visits with the baby

because she could always find a reason

that there was nobody there,
you know?

So this evolved into us actually
spending a great deal of time

with Shirley Turner.

In order to be around Zachary.

- What kind of things did you do?
- Go to the mall.

Go to the movies.
Swimming lessons we took him to.

She came here, bold as brass,

I had enormous fears for them.

I had a fear that Shirley
would go for them.

And they didn't seem to be
worried for themselves.

In fact, they said they weren't.

That, at this point,
that they didn't care.

Can you describe what that
process was like for you?

- Disgusting!
- Oh, disgusting.

But going up to the door,
I mean, was...

Having to be with her...

...was just nauseating.

We religiously did not talk
about the case.

She'd try to suck us into conversation.

Like, she'd talk about,

"Was Andrew's hair light
when he was a baby?"

And we'd just shut up.

Nobody wants to do it,
but you got to do it.

So facing this bitch...

...that's the price we had to pay

to make sure we had a good
connection with Zachary.

He knew us.
We knew him.

So that when she finally
went to prison...

...he'd have a smooth transition
into our life.

I just feel awe about that.

I can't...

I don't know how they did it,
Kurt.

I don't know how they did it,
but I know why they did it.

And, finally, after thousands
of miles and memories,

on a rainy Sunday afternoon,
we met.

Hello, bud!

Hello!

This is your Uncle Kurt.

Hi, buddy.

He knew your daddy
when he was a little boy.

It's Uncle Kurt.
It's okay.

Is there anything that you
would like to say to Zachary?

Oh, wow.

Without tearing up here?

First of all,
I saw your pictures.

And you are a very cute kid,

and you look exactly like Andrew.

Definitely the cheeky
Andrew face, definitely.

Zachary,
you're a lucky little boy.

And you're an unfortunate little boy.

Your father,
who you'll never know,

was such an amazing guy.

And he touched so many people
in such a short period of time.

It's not just stories.
He was a real person.

Quite frankly,
don't let anybody lie to you.

Wouldn't eat anything green
until he went away to college.

Zachary is asleep in the other room.

He's spending the night.

And you're an unfortunate little boy

because you're more
than likely to grow up

without your biological father
or your biological mother.

But with a little bit of luck,

you'll get to grow up
with Andrew's parents.

And let me tell you this.

They did the most amazing job.

You couldn't ask for two better people.

Grandma loves you,
yes, she does

Granddad loves you,
yes, he does

Daddy loves you,
yes, he does

Uncle Kurt's here,
he loves you, too

We all love you, all we can

Darling, darling little man

So, from that perspective,

you're the luckiest little boy
in the world.

They love you more than life itself.

And if you ever need anything,
I'm not far away either.

And know that we'll be there for you

in every way that he can't be.

Zach, when you're old enough
and you watch this,

if you ever want to talk with me
personally

or you want to come and see me,

you have an open invitation
and you should know that.

And you're loved and I love you

and I care about the person
you're gonna become.

We love him, and we do simple
things like send him books.

- Happy Birthday!
- Can't wait to meet him.

I hope to get the chance to meet you.

Oh, I hope I'm Uncle Ken to Zachary.

'Cause if you're anything like
Andrew, it's gonna be good.

I think you'll turn out just great.

It says "Student Affairs."
Are you a student?

Who knows? Maybe someday
you'll be applying here

to the Faculty of Medicine.

Does this look exciting?
We're gonna do an interview.

Even though things started tragically,

you know, he's the blessing
Andrew left behind.

I parked the van two blocks away

'cause it was
the only vehicle for miles

with California plates

and would give away to Shirley
that I was in town.

- Sort of a stealth van, you see.
- Exactly.

If she knew, I was afraid

she would find excuses to withhold you

so that I couldn't see you.

Every time the doorbell rang,
I hid in the back bedroom,

as it could have been her
just dropping by unannounced.

Hi, David. Hi, Kate.
This is Shirley.

On the days we didn't have you,

I discovered your dad's
medical-school world,

met his classmates, found
more footage of him for you.

And, finally,
I found myself face-to-face

with the thing that had set me
on this journey

in the first place.

One of the major things
that Andrew and I did together,

or that we had in common,
was photography.

Sometimes we'd bring the cameras out

and go around the lake and by the pond,

and take some pictures around there.

I told Andrew, I said,
"Listen, you're gonna have to

show me a few tricks or whatever

and show me some of your pictures."

I'd still love to see
some of the pictures

that he took through medical school.

I've never seen any of them.

Him and his dad had done quite
a bit of photography together.

Right after this happened,
I fired out an e-mail

saying we should try to think
of some sort of memorial award.

And I felt like
that would be something also

that his dad would really feel
honored by.

And then have a wall
in the medical school.

To be able to say
year after year, you know,

these are the winners,
and people could look

and be like,
"Wow," you know, "look at this."

I think I have a meeting
tomorrow morning

to participate in the judging tomorrow.

And I find it interesting

that you say
that you hadn't heard that.

I wonder if part of it

was eventually maybe have
his dad independently say,

"Oh, who took this picture?

It's a really nice picture."

And have him say, "Oh, me!"

I don't know.

But it's something he did.

On July 18, 2003,
you turned one.

Shirley decided to hold
a birthday party for you

at McDonald's.

She started to open presents.

Well, he wasn't interested in presents.

He wanted to get down.

So, when he got down,
he made for me.

Shirley was very, very angry.

So she said,
"He loves you more than me.

Why don't you take him?"

Zachary always,
from the time he could choose,

would choose Kate over her.

That was obvious, and
other people talked about it.

Kate is a warm and loving mother.

She was a phony mother.

I love you.

Mommy loves you.
Yes, I do.

She knew the motions,
but there's no warmth in it.

Zachary.
I love you, baby.

Mommy loves you.
Mommy loves you.

I believe she's using
her own children now

to manipulate the system

and to make Kate and David suffer,

even if she goes to jail.

Fortunately,
there are enough people here

who are in the system,
the justice system,

the child-protection system,

that I know personally

who have told me
that that will not happen.

The next hearing
in the extradition process

was set for September 25th,

your dad's 30th birthday,

where she would likely be
re-incarcerated

and at last returned to the U.S.
for trial.

But, for now, it was time for me
to go home.

- I have to say bye-bye now.
- Gonna say "bye-bye"?

Bye-bye to Uncle Kurt?

You gonna give him a hug?

- Can I have a hug?
- Grab him and take it.

Was that funny?
Was that funny?

Bye-bye, sweet pea.

I'll see you later, buddy.

Well, you'll be a little bigger
next time I see you.

He had just completed
the child health checks

that they do.

He's ahead of his time.
He's doing great.

He's up to par on everything,

but he doesn't like to wave goodbye.

- Bye-bye!
- Bye-bye!

One of them said, "That's fine,

'cause he's got lots of time
to learn that."

Is there anything you'd like
to say to Zachary?

I'm hoping I'm gonna have
all the opportunity

to say those things to Zachary.

We had been out.
We came back here.

There was a little card
in the door from Constable Walsh

saying, "Would we contact him?"

- I was here.
- Mark and I were here.

I was at my house.

I was home watching the 6:00 NTV news.

And the next thing, I saw a
picture of Shirley and Zachary

and saying that they were missing.

And I was just screaming
at the top of my lungs.

And I immediately fell to the floor.

So I immediately went over
to their apartment.

We came here.

So we got in the car
and went over there.

- Our vicar came by.
- I'll never forget that moment.

They're gonna find them.
They're gonna be okay.

You're overreacting.
You're gonna think the worst.

Look, you know,
she's probably gone for a night.

My first thought was that she had left.

She had taken him and run.

She couldn't do that.
She couldn't possibly do that.

That was about 2 or 3 hours
of uncertainty.

The emotion was overwhelming.

They called us and told us
they were doing a search

of the beach
out in Conception Bay South.

I thought, "They're doing that
for a reason."

I had received a call.

"We're having a press conference
on the Turner case."

I went to Father Chris,
I just whispered to him,

"I think you better stay,

because I think I'm gonna be
coming back here

with some really bad news."

He told me that they had found a baby.

Along with an adult.

I knew then that there was two bodies.

"They're working
to identify the bodies."

I said,
"You got to come pick me up."

We came to the door, and it was
Jackie and Constable Walsh.

I thought, "Oh, my gosh,

somebody's with them now
trying to tell them."

We went in, and I told them.

And what I saw after that

I will never forget in my life.

Rage.
Absolute vicious rage.

Someone has done that
to someone you love.

If the person who did this
had been here, I'd kill them.

Period.
No questions. Kill them!

Strangle that fucking bitch
right here, right now!

Period.
No questions. Kill them!

And then we went to
have to identify him,

and we couldn't touch him

because they said he was forensic.

He hadn't been through the autopsy yet.

There's this table and sort of
white sheets up all around him.

With a white sheet over a body.

You could see over the sheets,
clearly, it was him.

It's really him.

And then Kate's legs quit.

She just went straight to the floor.

David was lying on top of Kate
on the floor.

We managed to get them out. I
don't know how we did it, Kurt.

I don't know how I got out myself.

That poor little baby.

A summary of the evidence
against Shirley Turner.

Part Two.

In July of 2003,
Shirley met a man at a bar

in downtown St. John's.

They went out twice

until his friends showed him
articles on the Web

saying she was accused
of killing her last boyfriend.

He told her he didn't
want to see her anymore.

She then called and left over
200 messages on his phone,

including one saying
that she was pregnant

and that he needed to...

Step up to the plate
and be a fucking man.

She wasn't,
as her autopsy showed.

The night she killed you,

she made a phony phone call
from her apartment

to a friend's answering machine,

claiming to be
at this man's house with you.

She took your brother T.J.'s car
at about 11:38 that night

and drove to the man's house.

She got lost along the way

and asked a woman for directions
along this road

around 12:45 a.m.

She parked behind his house,

left a used tampon and photos of
the two of you on his property,

completing her attempt
to frame this man

for what she was about to do,

then took you down to the ocean
behind his home.

A night watchman in the area

thought he heard a baby crying
in the distance

around 2:30 a.m.

Shirley took her prescription
for Ativan,

prescribed for her
by psychiatrist John Doucet,

mixed it into your formula,
then took some herself.

The only good thing we know about this

is that you were not conscious
and you did not suffer.

She then...

She then walked to the edge of a pier

and with you strapped
to her stomach with a sweater,

she jumped into the Atlantic Ocean.

Mommy loves you.

Yes, I do.

Mommy loves you.

Did you have a nice nap?
What did you dream about?

Mommy loves you.

Mommy misses you.

He was found face upward
with his eyes wide open.

And the policeman who found him

said that he had wrapped him
in a blanket

rather than a plastic bag,

and he and another officer
carried him gently back.

And he made very sure that
he kept the body very far away

from the wicked woman
who had murdered him.

When I sit here,
I hate her so much.

When we came here,

David and I realized
what Shirley Turner was.

She was the devil.

But people think that you're
some kind of basic religious nut

if you believe in the devil.

I haven't prayed
since Zachary died. I haven't.

I have some issues I have to deal with.

You know, my faith
has been tested by this.

Was a beautiful service.

A real tribute to the little boy.

Oh, I don't know how many people
were here, probably 300 or 400.

Maybe more.
I don't recall.

I've never seen a coffin
so small before.

They shouldn't have them that size.

He was in his little suit

that he'd had
the pictures taken in, I think.

What went in it?

What went in it?
His little ball.

And I don't remember
if she put a truck in.

Lots of kisses and hugs
and tears went in it.

Lots of hopes and dreams.

Your grandma and grandpa
went back to England

and spread your ashes with your dad's.

They went back to St. Louis

and spread your ashes with your dad's.

And I didn't go with him.

Andrew wanted to be cremated.

Oh, yes.
Yes.

What bothers Kate

is that she did not go with him
to the crematorium

and stay with him right to the end.

He went from the funeral home
to the crematorium all alone.

In plastic bags.

With only his head sticking out!

Come on, Kate.

He wouldn't care about that.

That's why we went right up
to the oven doors with Zachary.

This is what
that fucking bitch didn't know!

Or maybe she did know.

This is what she's leaving.

Maybe she did know.

If she thought about it at all,

she didn't give a good goddamn!

And this is what I hate her for.

I hate her for a lot of things.

Stealing the rest of Andrew's life

and virtually all of Zachary's life

and then this.

Leaving us like this.

A couple of times,
lying in there in bed at night,

I considered fixing the problem myself.

Pick a night when Kate took
a sleeping pill,

so she wouldn't know I was up.

Get up in the middle of the night.

Dream up a pretext.

Go kill Shirley and come back
and go back to bed,

so Kate would not know.

That way, number one,
she could not harm Zachary.

And number two, even if
they did catch me at it,

I'm the first one they come
looking for, of course,

but Kate could truthfully say

she didn't know that I was doing it,

so she might still
get to bring up Zachary

and get him started, even
if I go to prison in Canada.

We've worked through
possibilities ad nauseam.

Suppose we grab Zachary and run.

Number one, we got to get
off the island of Newfoundland.

The big drawback against living
here is getting out of here.

There's only three ways to do that.

Ferry, boat, airplane.

The airplane and the ferry
would be covered

as soon as Zachary's missing.

We'd have to hire a boat somehow,

which means you take in a third party

to the crime of kidnapping.
We can't go home.

We cannot ever identify
ourselves as ourselves.

Have cash only stashed
all around the country.

Zachary would never be allowed
to know his family, our friends.

So that path...

big, big, big, big risk
with a horrible life.

So that's out.

Legal approaches we might
have taken. Invent something.

File affidavit saying
Shirley slipped one night

when we were around

and said a threat of some kind
that might get her incarcerated.

But that would just be
our word against hers.

The best shot we had
at keeping Zachary alive

was I kill her myself.

Other than doing that,
I can think of no other way

to save Zachary from that bitch.

There's a logic in it.

But I didn't do it.

'Cause I trusted government
to do its job.

Government is supposed to stop that

so I don't have to do it personally.

In this case, they didn't even
get her off the street

and they even gave her a baby
to look after.

My understanding is that
proper protocols were followed.

I have asked my officials to,
did ask them some time ago,

to follow up with the board
to see, in fact,

that all the proper protocols
had been adhered to.

They were gambling Zachary's life.

They were gambling the lives

of anyone in the general population

that Shirley came in contact with.

We, the vast majority of good people

who don't kill people,
are stuck.

We got nowhere to go.

We figured we'd hold a press conference

and try to push for changes in law.

The morning that we had
scheduled the press conference,

I was in the shower.

Kate came in with the phone.
"It's Jackie.

She says we can't hold
the press conference."

Technically, there's still
a press ban in place.

If they want to lock me up for talking

while they let murderers walk
around free, just..."

We believe that Shirley Turner

bears 100% of the responsibility

for the murder of our son,
Andrew.

We believe that the legal system

helped her to kill our grandson,
Zachary.

When Shirley Turner was formally
charged and escaped to Canada,

we naively thought she would be
sent back to Pennsylvania

within a few weeks at the most.

When we learned
that she was out on bail,

under an order
from Justice David Russell,

we were numb.

Numb!

Good afternoon.
Judge Russell's office.

I'm a documentary filmmaker,

and I'm doing a documentary
about the Zachary Turner case.

I think all he might have done one time

was probably a bail review.

Is that what you're calling about?

Yeah, it was December 12, 2001,
actually. Yeah.

Okay.

Judge Russell is sorry, but he
won't be able to be interviewed

in connection with that matter.

Crown Prosecutor Mike Madden

didn't even argue against
her release on bail that day

and instead entered the courtroom

with an agreement already
in place for her release.

Mike Madden speaking.

I'm a documentary filmmaker.
I was a friend of Andrew Bagby.

Wondering if you would be interested

in possibly being interviewed for...

No, I don't think so.

Not one penny of her bail sureties

had to be paid by anyone who signed,

nor did they have to show
proof of ability to pay.

No money's put up.
No money at all. It's useless.

They could have put 20 cents
or $20 million.

Wouldn't have made any difference.

Her psychiatrist put up the $65,000,

and that's another issue altogether.

Hi. You've reached Dr. Doucet's office.

Please leave your name,
telephone number,

and a brief message.

Hi.
I'm calling for Dr. Doucet.

My call was not returned.

Time. We thought it was all about time.

Each step in the extradition process,

each incomprehensible delay,

four weeks, six weeks,
over and over again,

there was another knife in our guts.

"The law is slow," they told us,
and it was!

Our lawyer Jackie
went to see Betty Day,

an administrator somewhere
in the hierarchy

of Child Protective Services,

and told her that we are concerned

about the safety of the baby

because the mother is accused
of a pre-meditated murder.

And nothing happened.

Hello. Department of Health
and Community Services.

Hi. I'm trying to reach Elizabeth Day.

Elizabeth Day is not available.

At the tone,
please record your message.

My call was not returned.

If you were
in the Family Health Services,

wouldn't you want to know
who this accused murderer

was arranging
for her baby to stay with?

Nobody ever came to see us.

Before we left Sunnyvale,

we got a police report
to say that we were good people.

Our friends and my employer,
et cetera, write letters

that we were upright members
of the community.

Nobody asked us for that.

We could have been convicted
child molesters in California.

- They didn't care.
- And nobody would've known.

She wrote directly
to Judge Derek Green,

who responded through his secretary

with instructions
on how to write her own appeal

of his decision to incarcerate her.

- Mr. Kuenne?
- Yes?

Yeah,
this is Chief Justice Green.

What I did is on the record
and will speak for itself.

Okay.
Okay.

Under an order from Justice Gale Welsh,

Shirley Turner
was released on bail again,

and we went numb again.

And we had to give Zachary

right back into the hands
of Andrew's killer!

"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder

that would give concern

about potential harm
to the public generally."

Shirley's last boyfriend before
Andrew told Pennsylvania police

that Shirley attempted suicide
on his front doorstep

after he broke up with her
and had threatened to kill him.

"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder

that would give concern

about potential harm
to the public generally."

Eight people had
restraining orders against her.

"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder

that would give concern

about potential harm
to the public generally."

If anyone had bothered to check
the jail records

during her two-month stay,

the prison psychiatrist put her
on suicide watch

every 15 minutes,

she was incredibly disruptive,

and even threatened to stab
another inmate with a fork.

"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder

that would give concern

about potential harm
to the public generally,

as her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."

The man she was terrorizing

called the police and reported Shirley,

but because he didn't leave his
name, no one took any action.

"Her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."

Andrew rejected her,
and she killed him.

Zachary rejected her.
He paid the price, too.

"Her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."

Of course the crime was specific.

She didn't shoot
into a crowd of people.

We could not conceive
how they could let a probable

pre-meditated murderer...

probable pre-meditated murderer
walk the streets.

"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary

in the public interest."

Who the hell is the system protecting?

"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary

in the public interest."

We waited and we waited and we waited

for the authorities
to do their job and lock her up!

You got a dead body
with five holes in it,

and it means nothing!

Under an order from Justice Gale Welsh.

Good afternoon.
Court of Appeal.

Hi. May I speak to Judge Welsh,
please?

- Is she expecting your call?
- Probably not, no.

And now we've got a second dead body

that couldn't breathe through water.

I just spoke with Judge Welsh,
and she said no.

She said no, so I just
wanted to let you know.

"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary

in the public interest."

Son of a...
Son of a...

She had to be stopped.

The people who were supposed
to stop her didn't.

And she got to kill again.

And I'm gonna do my damnedest

to see if I can make them change
the way they deal with killers.

And with that, your grandma
and grandpa became activists.

We victims...

We want, number one,
the whole truth public

about why Zachary died.

They've developed a program,
a support group,

for people
who have had a death through,

you know, violent death.

Welcome to our first Victims
of Homicide annual vigil.

In this last year,
I've just taken training

to become a child advocate
in the dependency court system.

John Doucet, the psychiatrist
who posted $65,000 bail

for Ms. Turner,

was found guilty
of professional misconduct.

It was David Bagby and his wife

who launched the complaint
against Doucet.

The three-person panel ordered Doucet

to undergo psychiatric counseling.

There was a lot of sympathy
for David and Kate.

I think it got them at least a result

that they were hoping to accomplish.

Mr. Wicks,

Child and Youth Advocate
for Newfoundland and Labrador,

is doing a Child Death Review,

which is a formal investigation

and the output of it
is a report saying,

"Here's why that baby died."

And recommendations for changes

to cut the chance
of that happening in the future.

Obviously, once that's done,

then we would like to see that go

to whatever legislative bodies,

either provincial or federal,

can write laws to make
these recommendations real.

And a report into the death
of Zachary Turner

will be released in Newfoundland.

He was drowned by his mother.

Your grandma was
temporarily injured in a fall

and couldn't make the trip,

so your grandpa and I came alone.

Dr. Markesteyn conducted
an exhaustive investigation

over a 15-month period.

He reached two key conclusions.

One, Zachary Turner's death
was preventable.

And, two,
Zachary was in his mother's care

when he should not have been.

The government has received
a scathing report

that concluded
the child-protection system

failed Zachary Turner.

A serious lack of judgment
at the senior-management level.

Substandard child-protection practices

contributed to the outcomes.

There are 58 recommendations
in the report.

I am announcing our action plan.

We will develop policy
specific to children

whose parents are charged
with a violent crime.

The part I was most interested
in, as I said, is bail.

Why was Dr. Shirley Turner granted

judicial interim release,
commonly known as bail?

This is the one question

that Dr. Markesteyn did not
and could not answer.

So, that's still an open wound,
if you would.

May I?

He did say this,

"Had Dr. Turner
not been released on bail

on 12 December 2001

or on 10 January 2003,

my review would have been unnecessary.

Zachary would be alive today."

I would like to see
Parliament pass a law

denying bail to people accused
of murder.

Put them on the fast track
to get to trial

and get on with it,
get to the truth.

The only way I can see it changing

is for every citizen who cares
about this to tell his M.P.

that "This law is stupid.
Change it."

And, of course,
such a selfish thing to do.

She not only killed Andrew,

but she left three other
children without a mother,

which is very sad for them.

And what kind of regret
does that give you?

Well, if things were different,

I guess it's possible
he'd still be alive

and rather than memories
of just one year,

there'd be a lot of years there now.

- Tough losing a little brother.
- Yeah, definitely.

Zachary should be right here with me.

He should be off going to school now,

getting ready to go to school.

I am going to continue to scream
long and loud

about bail for someone accused
of what Shirley did to my son.

I'd traveled the world for years

looking for what was left of your dad.

I'd made dozens of new friends.

Dr. DiCuccio has made the trek
out to California.

But there was still one question
I couldn't answer.

How would I know when I was done?

And what was I really looking for?

Both as spirituality and as grief,

the relocation of
the other person is essential.

It's interesting you should ask that.

My first response was,
"That's not a person."

That is simply a mass of tissue
and protein and fat and water.

Something leaves a body
when death occurs.

What was I trying to find?

To resolve our grief,

we have to be able to accept
the reality of that loss.

Who's interviewing you, Kurt?

Get our questions answered
to the extent that they can be

and to basically surrender

to the things
that we can't have answered.

And how would I know when I'd found it?

I appreciate you doing this for him.

'Cause I know he talked
about you a lot.

- He'd talk about you.
- Really?

Well, then, you're not
a good moviemaker, huh?

'Cause that's what he always told me.

I know he loved you.

And then to be able to continue to live

remembering the person.

To be able to remember their
life, not only their death.

No, no, no.
I can feel it.

It's not far off.
It's too late.

I didn't want to stop making
this movie.

That would mean I'd learned
everything there was to know

and finished
my one last movie with him.

Earl Grollman says grief is
love's unwillingness to let go.

He doesn't like to wave goodbye.

I'll miss you.

- Well, I'll be going.
- Bye.

One more time.
And action!

It is my brother
that got married here tonight.

One more time.
And action!

This is your Uncle Kurt.

One more time.
And action!

When the person says,

"Life will never be
the same again, will it?"

they now know where they are

and what's involved in moving forward.

There were so many stories
I wanted to tell you.

And somewhere I hope you're watching.

I almost gave up making
this film when you were killed.

I couldn't see the point anymore.

But something kept me going.

And then one day I realized
what it was.

This film was no longer
a letter to you.

It was now a letter to someone else.

We thought we'd go get Andrew,

get everything organized,
whatever,

and then kill ourselves,
'cause no point in going on.

Everybody always says,

"What would be the difference
if one person weren't alive?"

You've still got a hell of a lot
to live for,

and you've still got a lot
of friends and a lot of family

who love you very, very much.

You are the most amazing and...

I love both of you.

...the strongest people
I've ever known.

- I love you guys.
- I love them very much.

- I love them very much.
- I love them very much.

I admire you and respect you
so much for two things.

One, for such a wonderful
young man that you raised.

It doesn't matter what happened.
They raised a wonderful man.

Thanks for bringing such a
wonderful person into the world.

You know,
Andrew contributed a lot to me

as far as who I am today.

We won't forget their son.

...and for having the strength

to make it through something like this.

With what you've been through,
to still be carrying on,

still to hold your heads up and
keep going and pushing forward

is amazing.

They've done it in such a way
that it makes you proud

to know them and to be related to them.

I think God put some people
down on Earth

just to be examples for the rest of us.

You are two very,
very special people.

There's a few things in my life

that have had an effect on me
like those two people.

I don't know how else.
I love them.

- We love you.
- Well, we love them.

- We're always thinking of you.
- And I think about them daily.

My thoughts are never far
from either of you.

I love them and pray for them.

God's blessings on them both.

Oh, they know I love them.

I feel very blessed, as I say,
to be among their friends.

I just thank them for being
my friends for 30-odd years.

We're very lucky to have them
as our neighbors

and our true friends.

God bless you guys and call me.

And as one of Andrew's
very good friends told us

very soon after he was murdered,
we still have children.

Kurt, Matt, Chris,
on down the list.

I feel like I got lucky in life

'cause they're another set of parents.

Kate and David were a big reason

why I am the person that I am today.

We're all their kids.

I'll always be there for you guys.

And I love you both dearly.

We all love you guys so much.

There's really nothing
that I wouldn't do for them.

Do you feel better?

Do you feel better?

Yeah.

I just hope that Dave and Kate realize

how much he loved them,

because just in the short
period of time that I knew him,

that was the one truth
that I knew to be absolute.

I'm glad I wasn't a rebellious youth,

because it would have been
completely and utterly

wasted on David and Kate Bagby.

I mean, totally.

I had my ear pierced for two weeks.

They never noticed.

I'm finally sitting
at the dinner table,

and I actually said to them,
I'm like,

"You know, Mom, Dad,

it's a good thing
I'm not looking for attention

because hello!"

And they just had a look at it,
and they're like,

"Oh, that's nice.
When did you get that done?"

And I love you,
and I know you love me and...

Yeah. I kind of need to move on
from that.

'Cause I'm a Bagby male.

We don't gush very much.

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