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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:12,110 --> 00:00:15,690 This was one of the toughest stories I've ever done. 2 00:00:19,270 --> 00:00:23,230 When there's a big train wreck, you want to go look at it. 3 00:00:23,670 --> 00:00:28,570 This was a train wreck with five babies lying on the tracks. 4 00:00:30,510 --> 00:00:33,650 Andrea Yates. Andrea Yates. Andrea Yates called 911. 5 00:00:34,170 --> 00:00:38,110 Authorities rushed to her home only to find her five young children dead. 6 00:00:38,350 --> 00:00:43,230 Andrea Yates confessing to police she drowned her children one by one in the 7 00:00:43,230 --> 00:00:44,230 bathtub. 8 00:00:44,610 --> 00:00:49,750 Everyone was horrified. A mother killed her kid? 9 00:00:50,110 --> 00:00:53,430 One of the most heart -wrenching tragedies we have ever heard. 10 00:00:53,630 --> 00:00:58,430 How could a mother kill her own family? Everyone was talking about it. Neighbors 11 00:00:58,430 --> 00:00:59,650 are understandably stunned. 12 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:01,700 I fell for five other children. 13 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,700 It really had to be a lot wrong with that woman's head. 14 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,840 They just immediately hated her. This was a very evil and calculated woman. 15 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,040 Andrea Yates, she faces capital murder charges. If convicted, she could be put 16 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:14,679 to death. 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,820 The number one question is why, why, why? 18 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:21,000 I wanted to find out. What was the motive? 19 00:01:21,580 --> 00:01:23,300 How could she do that? 20 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,800 Is this an act that is literally beyond our comprehension to understand or to 21 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:29,800 deal with? 22 00:01:30,250 --> 00:01:35,790 When I got in that car, down to Houston, I had no idea what I was going to say. 23 00:01:43,530 --> 00:01:47,070 One of the most heartbreaking tragedies we have ever heard. 24 00:01:47,490 --> 00:01:49,410 Neighbors are understandably stunned. 25 00:01:51,310 --> 00:01:54,530 This mom's actions are a calculated act of evil. 26 00:01:55,650 --> 00:01:59,070 These events are beyond our ability to understand. 27 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,660 Number one question, why, why, why? 28 00:02:13,380 --> 00:02:19,100 In 2001, I was a freelance writer primarily concentrating on true crime. 29 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:24,900 When I was researching my book Breaking Point, I was starting to get hints that, 30 00:02:25,020 --> 00:02:30,560 no, she wasn't this horrible, evil person that was on the news. 31 00:02:31,230 --> 00:02:36,970 Her neighbors were saying she was a people pleaser and she was a caretaker. 32 00:02:36,970 --> 00:02:39,450 everyone said, what a great mom. 33 00:02:40,050 --> 00:02:43,830 I was getting a totally different picture of Andrea. 34 00:02:45,830 --> 00:02:47,710 But I knew there was more. 35 00:02:47,950 --> 00:02:51,370 And I couldn't get the full story and it was driving me crazy. 36 00:02:52,330 --> 00:02:54,590 I had a few confidential sources. 37 00:02:56,070 --> 00:02:59,070 And one of them told me about this preacher. 38 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:04,760 that Andrea was involved with, and they called it a cult. 39 00:03:07,420 --> 00:03:09,960 And then one day I received these letters. 40 00:03:10,180 --> 00:03:16,320 I was totally shocked. I didn't know they were coming. And it was just sort 41 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,200 mystery source that dropped them in the mailbox to me. 42 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:27,860 They were letters that Michael and Rachel Warnecki wrote to Andrea. 43 00:03:29,780 --> 00:03:31,760 I know you're frustrated, Andrea. 44 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,740 I know things are not the way you would like them to be, but you can change 45 00:03:36,740 --> 00:03:40,060 them. There will be a day when it is too late. 46 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,720 Andrea was searching. 47 00:03:46,020 --> 00:03:47,400 Andrea was lonely. 48 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:54,120 And through their letters back and forth, Andrea could pour out her heart, 49 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:55,120 loneliness. 50 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:01,180 In 1999, Andrea wrote that Luke has been born. 51 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:08,680 And Rachel writes to Andrea, I have seen many women just continually put off 52 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:10,220 their salvation in Jesus. 53 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:16,320 Then as the years slowly slipped by, so does any hope for them to be truly 54 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:17,320 saved. 55 00:04:19,540 --> 00:04:23,440 To read those letters was heartbreaking because 56 00:04:24,330 --> 00:04:27,590 It was just nothing but how you're doing wrong. 57 00:04:30,230 --> 00:04:33,630 And that there's not any hope for you. 58 00:04:34,210 --> 00:04:39,470 If you allow Satan to come in and still be understanding, the consequences will 59 00:04:39,470 --> 00:04:40,470 be tragic. 60 00:04:41,950 --> 00:04:46,710 When I read those letters, you kind of go, it all makes sense now. 61 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:54,000 Why Andrea did this? What was going on in her confused, mentally ill brain? 62 00:04:55,900 --> 00:05:01,520 Everything was pointing to this preacher named Michael Warnecki. 63 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,040 According to the author of this new book, letters written to Andrea Yates by 64 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:14,740 Reverend Warnecki and his wife may have convinced Yates she was possessed by the 65 00:05:14,740 --> 00:05:18,220 devil. That is a way that God can use this. 66 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:24,820 And everything, loneliness, depression, anything, was all separation with God in 67 00:05:24,820 --> 00:05:25,820 alignment with Satan. 68 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,980 Basically, if you go to college... I was watching the Debbie Duncan show, and 69 00:05:29,980 --> 00:05:34,000 there was this lady who wrote a book, and she was talking about Michael being 70 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,620 involved in the Yates family. 71 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:36,840 How did they meet? 72 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:38,960 When Rusty was a student. 73 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:44,280 I learned that Rusty met Mike on campus just like I did. He started 74 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:45,840 corresponding just like I did. 75 00:05:51,500 --> 00:05:55,980 Here's the thing, I knew, you know, what happened to me, you know, what he did 76 00:05:55,980 --> 00:06:02,240 to my life. But it just, when it hit me, like, oh no, this Andrea Yates was so 77 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:07,300 pressurized with that struggle for salvation that she had to kill her kid. 78 00:06:08,430 --> 00:06:12,070 It has to look like, oh my God, how far can this go? 79 00:06:14,090 --> 00:06:16,670 Michael Warnicke, fire and brimstone preacher. 80 00:06:16,950 --> 00:06:19,470 The preacher is mimicking Satan himself. 81 00:06:19,790 --> 00:06:25,190 We watched the news coverage, like a hawk. It was all through the frame of, 82 00:06:25,250 --> 00:06:27,090 these people are going to try to bring Michael down. 83 00:06:27,490 --> 00:06:28,690 It's going to hell! 84 00:06:29,130 --> 00:06:31,250 It's going to the lake of fire! 85 00:06:31,790 --> 00:06:36,730 The man who's now under fire for what some claim is destructive preaching. 86 00:06:39,430 --> 00:06:42,670 Michael reached out to my mom initially. He was like, hey, how are you? It was 87 00:06:42,670 --> 00:06:44,230 like, oddly nice. 88 00:06:44,690 --> 00:06:49,510 It became pretty clear that Michael was afraid that this would be pinned on him. 89 00:06:49,970 --> 00:06:53,950 They had many conversations about God, Satan, and hell. He says, hey, they 90 00:06:53,950 --> 00:06:55,150 bring me in to testify. 91 00:06:55,570 --> 00:07:01,330 The defense is trying to make the case that some of my teachings may have led 92 00:07:01,330 --> 00:07:03,410 Andrea to do this horrific crime. 93 00:07:03,810 --> 00:07:05,830 Michael Wernicke's influence is dangerous. 94 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,940 And then he was the most positive he's ever been towards my mom. 95 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,100 He said, God told me that you're pretty close to getting into the kingdom of 96 00:07:15,100 --> 00:07:17,980 heaven. It was all damage control. 97 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,080 He was scared. 98 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:27,020 The time has come for Andrea Yates, the so -called killer mom, to defend her 99 00:07:27,020 --> 00:07:28,020 actions in court. 100 00:07:28,220 --> 00:07:30,420 If convicted, she could be put to death. 101 00:07:30,810 --> 00:07:35,370 Yates attorney Wendell Odom with Yates Health Records. Those records detail a 102 00:07:35,370 --> 00:07:39,090 history of deep depression, attempted suicide, and psychosis. 103 00:07:40,870 --> 00:07:45,550 The Andrew Yates case was certainly the most significant case I ever tried in my 104 00:07:45,550 --> 00:07:51,570 life. When I saw Andrew Yates for the first time, it was one of the most 105 00:07:51,570 --> 00:07:53,070 shocking things I'd ever seen before. 106 00:07:53,370 --> 00:07:56,490 She had pupils that were giant and dark. 107 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,420 She would jerk her head around and be looking at something behind her. 108 00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:08,300 I've never seen anyone that mentally ill before in my life. It was clear we need 109 00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:10,120 to start building an insanity defense. 110 00:08:11,060 --> 00:08:16,940 I thought the whole time, 111 00:08:17,020 --> 00:08:23,840 how ridiculous is this? Here's a loving mother who would never, ever, ever 112 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:30,520 have... harmed our children in any way had she not been psychotic and the 113 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,320 state's prosecuting her for capital murder. 114 00:08:32,580 --> 00:08:35,840 The defendant has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. 115 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,940 Our strategy was to explain to the jury that this was a psychotic episode 116 00:08:40,940 --> 00:08:43,059 created because of postpartum depression. 117 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:49,400 If this woman doesn't meet the test of insanity in this state, then nobody 118 00:08:51,140 --> 00:08:57,510 Zero. We needed to explain that she knew that what she was doing was illegal, 119 00:08:57,730 --> 00:09:00,450 but she didn't know that it was wrong. 120 00:09:00,710 --> 00:09:05,250 She may have believed because of her mental depression that it was in the 121 00:09:05,250 --> 00:09:10,870 interest of the children to drown them one after the other, but that's not the 122 00:09:10,870 --> 00:09:11,870 law in Texas. 123 00:09:12,830 --> 00:09:17,470 I'm asking you to vote in accordance with the law and the evidence and find 124 00:09:17,470 --> 00:09:18,470 guilty as charged. 125 00:09:19,290 --> 00:09:20,770 And I appreciate your attention. 126 00:09:22,060 --> 00:09:26,140 The defense and prosecution have both presented their arguments in the Yates 127 00:09:26,140 --> 00:09:29,400 case. After a month -long trial, the court rests. 128 00:09:31,180 --> 00:09:35,620 Jurors face the task of deciding whether this is a case of illness or intent. 129 00:09:36,060 --> 00:09:38,800 Andrea Yates' fate rests in their hands. 130 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,260 All rise for the jury, please. 131 00:09:49,930 --> 00:09:54,670 We, the jury, find the defendant, Andrea Pia Yates, guilty of capital murder. 132 00:09:55,250 --> 00:10:00,170 After only 35 minutes of deliberations, jurors said Andrea Yates should get life 133 00:10:00,170 --> 00:10:02,210 in prison, not the death penalty. 134 00:10:04,410 --> 00:10:07,130 During the verdict, I didn't feel like I could get up. 135 00:10:09,750 --> 00:10:12,330 She's my wife, who I loved. 136 00:10:13,770 --> 00:10:15,890 I wouldn't wish that on anyone. 137 00:10:18,390 --> 00:10:23,360 During the trial, We didn't do as good a job as we should have explaining her 138 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:29,280 mental state, including her faith -based beliefs, which were provided by 139 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:30,280 Warneke. 140 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,360 After the trial, I was thinking that Michael Warneke is not being held 141 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:36,360 accountable. 142 00:10:37,780 --> 00:10:43,220 He got a little bad press and all that, but he just marched on. And no one knows 143 00:10:43,220 --> 00:10:44,220 the real story. 144 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,640 He's getting away with it. 145 00:10:48,170 --> 00:10:54,850 I started thinking, what do I do? I felt it was my social responsibility to 146 00:10:54,850 --> 00:11:01,750 inform who this man is. And maybe that 147 00:11:01,750 --> 00:11:02,890 could help a lot of people. 148 00:11:03,230 --> 00:11:09,850 So I called a local news studio and told them that I have some information 149 00:11:09,850 --> 00:11:11,410 on this preacher. 150 00:11:11,870 --> 00:11:15,310 It's simple brainwashing. It starts off very innocent. 151 00:11:15,630 --> 00:11:17,490 Your perceptions start. 152 00:11:17,790 --> 00:11:20,750 and pretty soon you're sucked into a system. 153 00:11:20,970 --> 00:11:22,810 I knew that Mike would be pissed. 154 00:11:23,270 --> 00:11:28,590 I knew he would see me as a traitor, that he would see me as a Judas. 155 00:11:29,170 --> 00:11:35,290 I didn't know how far he would take his displeasure with me. 156 00:11:42,619 --> 00:11:47,380 Tonight, preacher Michael Warnecki is responding to his critics and places the 157 00:11:47,380 --> 00:11:50,080 blame on Rusty Yates for his wife's actions. 158 00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:55,240 What about Rusty? I have never heard him once. I heard him blame the hospitals, 159 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:59,380 the clinics, the postpartum depression, the drugs. Could you ever stand up and 160 00:11:59,380 --> 00:12:02,080 say, I'm looking in the mirror and I'm seeing the guy who's responsible. 161 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:03,620 I should have shepherded my wife. 162 00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:09,040 They visited you in Florida. Right. And you told them, according to Andrea 163 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:10,300 Yates, that they were going. 164 00:12:10,810 --> 00:12:15,090 To hell. I was Andrea's friend. She had just had this experience with watching a 165 00:12:15,090 --> 00:12:16,990 caterpillar become a butterfly. 166 00:12:17,230 --> 00:12:21,050 And she left there with a tremendous hope that things were going to change in 167 00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:24,770 their life. She's a respected psychiatrist who said flat out that 168 00:12:24,770 --> 00:12:29,650 never would have killed her children if it were not for you. That is ridiculous. 169 00:12:29,950 --> 00:12:32,870 So if you go out and kill somebody, that's my fault? If I know you, like 170 00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:36,070 other guy that was on there? You're talking about David Della Isla. I knew 171 00:12:36,070 --> 00:12:37,650 guy, what, 15 years ago. 172 00:12:37,910 --> 00:12:40,210 For 15 minutes, I made a McDonald's restaurant. 173 00:12:40,700 --> 00:12:45,020 Just the fact that he's saying that he didn't really know me, just like, wow. 174 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,580 He said you communicated with him considerably. He has a stack of letters, 175 00:12:48,580 --> 00:12:49,680 said. Stack of letters? From you. 176 00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:52,700 I don't think a stack of letters. That said that he was living a not righteous 177 00:12:52,700 --> 00:12:57,220 life. You're just a damn liar, you know? Like, here's the stack. This is a 178 00:12:57,220 --> 00:12:59,640 correspondence of about 12 years. 179 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:06,020 And so he knows me very well. That was the lie. It's like, you know exactly who 180 00:13:06,020 --> 00:13:07,020 I am. 181 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:16,440 When I found out that Mike had some sort of relationship with Andrea Yates, I 182 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,500 was dumbfounded, numb. 183 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:21,780 It was heartbreaking. 184 00:13:22,980 --> 00:13:25,980 And I thought, I hope they're wrong about Mike Warnacki. 185 00:13:30,740 --> 00:13:35,480 Mike Warnacki and I were born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, on February 4, 1954, 186 00:13:35,940 --> 00:13:37,160 and we went through school together. 187 00:13:37,820 --> 00:13:40,040 Grand Rapids is also known as the city of churches. 188 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:45,740 Mike and I were both altar boys. His dad was an usher in our church as a senior 189 00:13:45,740 --> 00:13:47,980 in high school. Mike was an excellent football player. 190 00:13:48,380 --> 00:13:54,040 He was the typical gung -ho jock, confident to the point of being cocky, 191 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:55,040 being the center of attention. 192 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,760 I was going to be the great charismatic hot shot. 193 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,380 Mike goes to Central Michigan on scholarship, and if not for some bad 194 00:14:03,380 --> 00:14:04,380 have gone to the NFL. 195 00:14:05,150 --> 00:14:07,910 At this time, God had been dealing with me. I began to read the Word. 196 00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:11,130 I began to just realize what it was to follow Jesus Christ. 197 00:14:11,570 --> 00:14:13,170 He was all in as a football player. 198 00:14:13,390 --> 00:14:16,650 He was all in as an evangelical preacher. 199 00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:19,010 He is everything to me. 200 00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:21,790 I'm totally committed to Him. 201 00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:26,330 He tried to get into different seminaries, but he was rejected for 202 00:14:26,330 --> 00:14:29,350 fanatical, too earnest, too over the top. 203 00:14:29,790 --> 00:14:33,270 I was offended by it at first, but I didn't realize, yeah, that's exactly 204 00:14:33,270 --> 00:14:36,970 God wants me to be. And I began to realize, no, this world belongs to 205 00:14:37,070 --> 00:14:40,810 totally contrary to what you see in the demon dens, the vipers, the snake pits 206 00:14:40,810 --> 00:14:42,170 of today called churches. 207 00:14:42,610 --> 00:14:46,610 And so he was going to make his own way. And he did wear that rejection as a 208 00:14:46,610 --> 00:14:47,610 badge of honor. 209 00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:56,690 In the early 1980s, Mike's profile around town grew exponentially. 210 00:14:57,090 --> 00:15:00,430 I preached outside of football games, basketball games, car races, baseball 211 00:15:00,430 --> 00:15:03,010 games, tracks, festivals, parades. 212 00:15:03,310 --> 00:15:06,570 God is going to destroy this earth and all you righteous sinners. 213 00:15:07,230 --> 00:15:12,570 He would stand outside of churches on Sunday morning and tell the churchgoers 214 00:15:12,570 --> 00:15:16,590 that they were going to hell. It was totally aggressive, and it was 215 00:15:17,370 --> 00:15:21,790 I don't care no more about ministry, about position, about reputation, about 216 00:15:21,790 --> 00:15:23,510 image, about what anybody says about me. 217 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,540 He was scorned. He was ridiculed. Probably everything he related to 218 00:15:29,540 --> 00:15:30,540 Jesus went through. 219 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,940 In fact, all they say now is bad things. You're off. You're cult. You're weird. 220 00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:39,460 For a while, that time, I started working at the Grand Rapids Press as a 221 00:15:39,460 --> 00:15:44,420 reporter. So reporting on him journalistically was awkward because we 222 00:15:44,420 --> 00:15:48,620 friends, and he's arrested various times. 223 00:15:49,530 --> 00:15:53,050 Cops intimidating me, arresting me, not because I'm breaking any ordinance, 224 00:15:53,130 --> 00:15:54,130 because they don't like me. 225 00:15:55,510 --> 00:15:59,450 There was an event that was the straw that broke the camel's back. 226 00:16:04,850 --> 00:16:08,890 The Shrine Circus was an annual institution in Grand Rapids. 227 00:16:09,470 --> 00:16:10,470 Mike was... 228 00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:15,040 doing his preaching outside the ticket office and accosted a woman verbally 229 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,060 about her religion, about her faith. I interviewed her subsequently. 230 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,340 He roughed her up pretty good, according to her. 231 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,720 She was so upset, she wanted him to go to trial, see him pay for what he had 232 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:33,720 done to her. 233 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,240 But the city cut a deal with him that he would leave town, 234 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:41,700 worldwide tour. 235 00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:51,800 I don't recall hearing from him for quite a while until Mike became a 236 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,800 figure in the Andrea Yates story. 237 00:16:56,620 --> 00:16:58,800 I get a call, and it's Mike. 238 00:16:59,060 --> 00:17:02,500 He was unhappy with the story in the Grand Rapids Press. He thought the story 239 00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:05,859 was slanted against him. He said, come on, Steve, you know me. 240 00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:07,560 We go way back. 241 00:17:07,980 --> 00:17:09,920 It was the only time he ever asked me for anything. 242 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,500 And he said, I would like you to publish my objections to that press coverage. 243 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,819 And so we do our interview. 244 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,640 Mike denied any culpability. 245 00:17:22,339 --> 00:17:25,140 His defense was, we love those kids. 246 00:17:25,940 --> 00:17:30,540 We would never suggest that a mother should kill her children. 247 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,200 And he said they needed Jesus. 248 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:45,100 followed how they should live their lives according to his beliefs, this 249 00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:46,100 wouldn't have happened. 250 00:17:50,380 --> 00:17:55,940 Over the years, I had done some research, and the word cult occurred to 251 00:17:57,580 --> 00:18:03,920 Because of his charisma, his performance skills, and all those things, 252 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:06,740 he could be a cult leader. 253 00:18:11,530 --> 00:18:14,750 I started thinking, how many victims are out there? How many people are still 254 00:18:14,750 --> 00:18:15,750 under his spell? 255 00:18:17,310 --> 00:18:21,730 And then I came across the First Survivors website, and I thought, wow, 256 00:18:21,730 --> 00:18:22,910 a lot more victims. 257 00:18:27,010 --> 00:18:31,170 I first met Michael Warnicke on campus at Michigan State University. 258 00:18:31,650 --> 00:18:37,270 For about a year and a half, I was very intensely enmeshed with the Warnicke 259 00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:41,090 cult. I fell for what he was preaching, hook, line, and sinker. 260 00:18:41,930 --> 00:18:45,150 But then I realized, no, the message is wrong. 261 00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:47,350 The fruit is bad. 262 00:18:47,650 --> 00:18:52,550 And Andrea Yates drowning her children is like the most symbolic fruit of his 263 00:18:52,550 --> 00:18:54,130 ministry you will ever get. 264 00:18:55,310 --> 00:18:59,430 And so I started the website, Michael Warnicke, The Ultimate False Prophet. 265 00:18:59,650 --> 00:19:04,430 I put that site out there in hopes of rescuing other people involved with the 266 00:19:04,430 --> 00:19:05,430 cult. 267 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,960 I had thousands of views. 268 00:19:08,660 --> 00:19:12,820 I got contacted by as many as 40 people. 269 00:19:13,860 --> 00:19:16,020 And so that's how I met David. 270 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:22,180 Reading the similar stories from other survivors and what they went through, it 271 00:19:22,180 --> 00:19:28,600 made me realize that we were manipulated, that we were deceived 272 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:34,760 that there was nothing flawed with me. It was him who was the flawed one. 273 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,720 I believe that Michael Wernicke should stand accountable for it, and I believe 274 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:41,940 he will on the day of judgment. 275 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:53,940 I think it's a really good question to ask whether Michael Wernicke is a cult 276 00:19:53,940 --> 00:19:58,140 leader or if this particular belief system is a cult. 277 00:19:59,540 --> 00:20:04,540 People oftentimes assume that when you talk about the word cult, that means 278 00:20:04,540 --> 00:20:05,540 there's a compound. 279 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:11,560 But that's not necessarily true based off of all of our definitions on how to 280 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:12,880 define a destructive cult. 281 00:20:13,820 --> 00:20:18,540 It's a dedication to a particular person, idea, or thing. 282 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:25,340 Michael is ultimately someone who does not want people to 283 00:20:25,340 --> 00:20:27,000 think independently. 284 00:20:27,660 --> 00:20:32,020 There is a clear pattern of indoctrination. 285 00:20:32,750 --> 00:20:38,930 He's sending people personalized messages, either audio or pamphlets. 286 00:20:38,930 --> 00:20:44,510 that Michael does is he really taps in and utilizes and manipulates. He creates 287 00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:49,730 this state of heightened emotionality in his messages for people. 288 00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:53,070 The effects of... 289 00:20:53,420 --> 00:20:59,140 Psychological manipulation and the effects of this type of ideological 290 00:20:59,140 --> 00:21:05,960 control can leave someone feeling trapped in a psychological prison. The 291 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,440 of that can be extremely devastating. 292 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,580 An appeals court in Texas has overturned the murder convictions of Andrea Yates 293 00:21:22,580 --> 00:21:25,740 because of false testimony by an expert witness. 294 00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:31,220 A state expert claimed Andrea Yates watched law and order and may have 295 00:21:31,220 --> 00:21:35,980 plot where a mother used postpartum depression as a defense for drowning her 296 00:21:35,980 --> 00:21:41,220 children. However, it was later proven that no such episode ever existed. 297 00:21:42,420 --> 00:21:46,100 The ruling means Yates is entitled to a new trial. 298 00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:53,660 In June of 2006, I was requested to participate in a jury for the state of 299 00:21:53,660 --> 00:21:59,080 versus Andrea P .A. Yates, and I gasped. It shocked me, and it scared me. 300 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,820 Everybody in Houston knew about this case, and everybody had an opinion that 301 00:22:03,820 --> 00:22:05,300 heard many, many times. 302 00:22:05,740 --> 00:22:08,360 Of course she was crazy. She killed her children. 303 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,840 With Andrea Yates set to stand trial once again, Will the court affirm her 304 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,740 guilt, or will a new verdict reshape the legal and moral reckoning of one of the 305 00:22:18,740 --> 00:22:20,820 most harrowing cases in recent history? 306 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,880 The first day of trial, and really every subsequent day, Andrea Yates would come 307 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,380 into the courtroom quiet and shy and reserved. 308 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,800 The evidence will show you that she had been contemplating the death and the 309 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,760 killing of these children for approximately two years, that she knew 310 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,400 wrong, and that she knew she would be punished. 311 00:22:42,010 --> 00:22:46,230 And that's what she told the police on June 20th of 2001. 312 00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:50,590 There was a vast difference between the first trial and the second trial. 313 00:22:50,790 --> 00:22:53,810 This was a mental illness and a delusion that she was acting. 314 00:22:54,110 --> 00:22:58,530 We thought we needed to do a better job of explaining what was going on in her 315 00:22:58,530 --> 00:23:04,170 head at the time. In 2001, her illness had gotten so great that their lives 316 00:23:04,170 --> 00:23:05,170 gone. 317 00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:07,450 She wouldn't worry about saving their lives anymore. 318 00:23:07,950 --> 00:23:09,890 She was worrying about saving their souls. 319 00:23:10,730 --> 00:23:12,990 explain how the delusion got formed. 320 00:23:13,250 --> 00:23:19,850 The entire word of God speaks about the last days, days of intense, powerful 321 00:23:19,850 --> 00:23:22,310 deception and delusion. 322 00:23:22,590 --> 00:23:27,730 And where she got the delusion was from this faith -based relief that Michael 323 00:23:27,730 --> 00:23:29,590 Warnicke was espousing. 324 00:23:30,890 --> 00:23:35,330 I first heard the name Michael Warnicke on the second week of the trial, when 325 00:23:35,330 --> 00:23:39,330 the Warnicke pamphlet, The Perilous Times, was entered into evidence. 326 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,480 At this point, I was starting to realize that Yates' religious beliefs were not 327 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:45,480 necessarily mainstream. 328 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,500 This actually was something that was brought up in the courtroom to give us 329 00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:56,280 context as to the religious beliefs of Andrea Yates. Modern Mother Worldly was 330 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,340 very, very lazy. All of her children drove her crazy. 331 00:23:59,790 --> 00:24:04,150 Now the Bible told her to spank and train them. So if the Bible's telling 332 00:24:04,150 --> 00:24:08,270 Mother Worldly to discipline her children, but because she's not, on the 333 00:24:08,270 --> 00:24:09,930 judgment, she will have no plea. 334 00:24:10,170 --> 00:24:12,410 Modern Mother Worldly gets cast in hell. 335 00:24:12,770 --> 00:24:15,550 Now what becomes of the children of such a Jezebel? 336 00:24:16,330 --> 00:24:20,310 Because the illusion is still that she's a bad mother, that the children are 337 00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:23,630 flawed, that they're going to hell unless she sends them to heaven. 338 00:24:23,850 --> 00:24:28,410 This really started to paint a picture for us as to the mind of Andrea Yates. 339 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,920 I knew that there was something about this Warnicke that needed to be paid 340 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:34,920 attention to. 341 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,060 Dr. Resnick, who interviewed Andrea Yates shortly after her arrest, will 342 00:24:41,060 --> 00:24:42,060 the stand today. 343 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:47,900 You love your children? 344 00:24:50,740 --> 00:24:52,960 Yes, not in the right way, no. 345 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,240 Mrs. Yates had a number of paranoid ideas. 346 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:06,020 She claims that she and the children would watch cartoons. The 347 00:25:06,020 --> 00:25:11,100 characters would speak directly to her, telling her she was a bad mother. 348 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:12,920 Mrs. 349 00:25:14,020 --> 00:25:16,980 Yates believed that she was marked as evil. 350 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,820 She believed she had 666 tattooed on her head. 351 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:32,000 And she believed that Satan was literally within her and surrounding her 352 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,600 influencing her during her psychotic period before the killing. 353 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:43,700 Michael Warnicki lectured about Satan being a very powerful 354 00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:44,700 force. 355 00:25:50,890 --> 00:25:57,590 Michael Warnicki is emphasizing how real Satan is and how 356 00:25:57,590 --> 00:26:02,490 these demons and Satan will take over your mind. 357 00:26:05,410 --> 00:26:10,630 So she clearly was strongly influenced by Michael Warnicki. 358 00:26:15,150 --> 00:26:19,070 His testimony was one of the most powerful. I've never forgotten what Dr. 359 00:26:19,130 --> 00:26:19,929 Resnick stated. 360 00:26:19,930 --> 00:26:25,850 Andrea Yates' religion was the trellis upon which the ivy of her mental illness 361 00:26:25,850 --> 00:26:26,850 grew. 362 00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:30,410 Everything in her psychosis tied back to her religious beliefs. 363 00:26:34,190 --> 00:26:38,290 After the last day of testimony and closing arguments, we went into the jury 364 00:26:38,290 --> 00:26:42,230 room. We had eight jurors that believed she was not guilty by reason of insanity 365 00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:44,130 and four that claimed she was guilty. 366 00:26:44,350 --> 00:26:48,010 We were arguing kind of back and forth about what she believed and what she 367 00:26:48,010 --> 00:26:53,010 didn't believe. One of the most challenging aspects of this trial was 368 00:26:53,010 --> 00:26:54,890 get into the mind of Andrea Yates. 369 00:26:55,470 --> 00:26:59,670 In order to ascertain whether or not she knew what she was doing was wrong, we 370 00:26:59,670 --> 00:27:02,990 did request a number of items, including the pictures of the kids. 371 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,140 and a copy of the Perilous Times, which was the newsletter that we knew was in 372 00:27:08,140 --> 00:27:10,760 the Yates' home when the children were killed. 373 00:27:11,660 --> 00:27:16,240 So we had been told that this picture, this image that was brought into 374 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:21,040 evidence, was from the Perilous Times. But that's all that we saw, right? 375 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:26,100 And in this limerick that was discussed was really the essence of everything. 376 00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:29,520 But it wasn't. There was a lot more. 377 00:27:30,140 --> 00:27:34,180 And so this copy of the Perilous Times was brought into the deliberation room. 378 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,280 The eternity of my children is my accountability while they are children, 379 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,900 would be sending them to hell if I raised them to think according to the 380 00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:48,820 standards of this world. By the time a child is the age of accountability, it's 381 00:27:48,820 --> 00:27:49,579 too late. 382 00:27:49,580 --> 00:27:53,500 By this time, the thinking of the world that you have taught them takes over. 383 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:56,520 God is going to hold you accountable. 384 00:27:59,500 --> 00:28:04,880 The perilous times is the most relevant media to me in my life. The highest 385 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,720 stakes thing for you is if you are a parent, your responsibility is your 386 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:15,720 salvation. There's a lot of pressure on parents to make their kids obey, fall in 387 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:22,200 line, and the price to pay if you didn't do that, you cause one of your kids 388 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,880 to go down. 389 00:28:27,180 --> 00:28:32,040 You told me earlier there came a time when you felt you were being a bad 390 00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:33,300 Could you explain that? 391 00:28:33,740 --> 00:28:39,740 Well, they weren't developing right and, you know, academic 392 00:28:39,740 --> 00:28:43,740 sense and, you know, righteous sense. 393 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:51,100 According to Michael's teaching, a child becomes no longer a child. They become 394 00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:52,100 no longer innocent. 395 00:28:53,180 --> 00:28:55,880 They're not saved before the age of 12. 396 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,120 which is age of accountability, 397 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:00,760 you're going to hell. 398 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,580 And if you had not taken their lives, what did you think would happen to them? 399 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,640 If they were to continue stumbling. 400 00:29:09,740 --> 00:29:10,920 And where would they end up? 401 00:29:11,420 --> 00:29:14,600 Hell. I 100 % believed all of this. 402 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,400 All of this. I would be up that night, worried I was going to hell. 403 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,380 How old are you, Moses? 404 00:29:22,660 --> 00:29:27,880 My mom would often express to us, That if you found a way that we all died, 405 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,760 would be a blessing. Because if you die, I mean, you're going to heaven. 406 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,060 You're going to paradise. 407 00:29:34,620 --> 00:29:38,620 What were you trying to accomplish then when you did take your children's lives? 408 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,680 Maybe in their innocent years, God would take them up. 409 00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:52,560 And so when I found out that they died, it wasn't shock at all. It was, ah. 410 00:29:53,290 --> 00:29:55,870 Damn it, they did it. They did it before us. 411 00:29:56,110 --> 00:29:59,610 And what does this mean for me and my place in heaven? 412 00:29:59,990 --> 00:30:04,670 You mentioned an aphorism from the Bible about a millstone. Would you say what 413 00:30:04,670 --> 00:30:05,670 that is? 414 00:30:06,150 --> 00:30:12,290 It's better to tie a stone around your neck and throw yourself in this sea than 415 00:30:12,290 --> 00:30:14,490 to cause the little one to stumble. 416 00:30:15,970 --> 00:30:17,030 That's why she did it. 417 00:30:18,670 --> 00:30:20,570 She was saving her kids. 418 00:30:28,590 --> 00:30:30,550 I don't want to admit this stuff out loud. 419 00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:38,310 I don't... You 420 00:30:38,310 --> 00:30:38,830 know... 421 00:30:38,830 --> 00:30:53,130 Jesus 422 00:30:53,130 --> 00:30:55,070 does single out one group. 423 00:30:56,550 --> 00:31:03,460 Children. He says it's better to tie a heavy millstone around your neck and 424 00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:08,760 be drowned in the depth of the sea than to cause one of these little ones who 425 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:09,920 believe in me to stumble. 426 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,060 In reading The Perilous Times, I was shocked. And I sat there shocked and I 427 00:31:21,060 --> 00:31:26,520 the jury, hey, everything in her delusion is in the newsletter. 428 00:31:27,070 --> 00:31:30,990 She believed she was an unrighteous mother, and this unrighteous mother had 429 00:31:30,990 --> 00:31:34,730 produced unrighteous children, and those unrighteous children were going to burn 430 00:31:34,730 --> 00:31:37,670 in hell unless they died before the age of accountability. 431 00:31:38,770 --> 00:31:43,970 That was everything that we needed to hear to basically understand why she did 432 00:31:43,970 --> 00:31:44,970 what she did. 433 00:31:49,510 --> 00:31:55,270 But there was one holdout juror who said, we just can't forget the children. 434 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,900 It was an incredibly emotional moment for everyone. 435 00:32:00,060 --> 00:32:04,500 So on the last day of deliberations, we did have a moment of silence for each of 436 00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:05,500 the children. 437 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:11,400 Two minutes per child where we reflected and prayed and thought about the 438 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,220 magnitude of what we were doing. 439 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,620 And afterwards, I got up and wrote something on the board. 440 00:32:22,300 --> 00:32:28,490 It is our job, our duty, to Judge Andrea P .A. Yates based on the facts 441 00:32:28,490 --> 00:32:31,970 presented in the evidence and the law given to us by the court. 442 00:32:35,610 --> 00:32:37,590 Let God judge her after that. 443 00:32:38,490 --> 00:32:41,550 And after that, the last holdout said I want to vote. 444 00:32:47,850 --> 00:32:50,190 Mr. Foreman, has the jury reached a verdict? 445 00:32:50,430 --> 00:32:52,350 Yes, sir. Will you please pass it to the president? 446 00:32:59,790 --> 00:33:04,830 We, the jury, find the defendant, Andrea P .A. Yates, not guilty by reason of 447 00:33:04,830 --> 00:33:05,830 insanity. 448 00:33:06,370 --> 00:33:09,310 Signed, Todd Christopher Frank, foreman of the jury. 449 00:33:13,010 --> 00:33:17,450 I thought, wow, the results of not guilty for reason of insanity was quite 450 00:33:17,450 --> 00:33:21,690 relief. I was super, super grateful. In many respects, she's a victim in all 451 00:33:21,690 --> 00:33:25,450 this because she became ill. We were unable to get adequate treatment for 452 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,420 She did this horrible, you know, thing that just devastated all of us. But, you 453 00:33:30,420 --> 00:33:33,040 know, I can't lose sight of the fact that this wasn't her. 454 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,220 Rusty came across the survivor's website. 455 00:33:37,940 --> 00:33:43,000 This is an email that I got from Rusty saying that he found one of Michael 456 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,540 Warnecki's tapes in the tape player at the time of the tragedy. 457 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,480 It was called What is Truth? 458 00:33:51,860 --> 00:33:54,440 It's a tape I've listened to before many times. 459 00:33:55,179 --> 00:33:59,820 Andrew Yates was listening to Mike all the way up until that tragic day. 460 00:34:00,980 --> 00:34:02,640 You want to submit to his kingdom? 461 00:34:03,620 --> 00:34:07,860 Then you must conform. You must go with his program. You must yield. You can't 462 00:34:07,860 --> 00:34:11,219 just do your own little thing, or you will pay consequences. 463 00:34:12,500 --> 00:34:16,639 But then Rusty would say things like, Mike got influenced, but it was, you 464 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,040 Andrew was psychotic because of her depression. 465 00:34:19,790 --> 00:34:25,370 I think that he wasn't aware that other people went through some abuse from 466 00:34:25,370 --> 00:34:26,370 Michael. 467 00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:31,650 Everyone responds a little differently, you know. I've tried myself to think, 468 00:34:31,850 --> 00:34:35,949 well, how would life be different if I'd never met him? Even outside of the 469 00:34:35,949 --> 00:34:39,889 tragedy, even just for me, how would my views of change should be different? And 470 00:34:39,889 --> 00:34:41,130 I don't know. 471 00:34:42,110 --> 00:34:47,170 I was stunned. I was in this cult for 12 years. I was like, Rusty, what are you 472 00:34:47,170 --> 00:34:48,409 talking about? It's horrible. 473 00:34:49,070 --> 00:34:50,590 He ruins people's lives. 474 00:35:00,150 --> 00:35:02,730 This is a news story about Andrea. 475 00:35:03,150 --> 00:35:06,930 A couple has ties to an out -of -state religious group. 476 00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:12,550 Andrea's brother says, to me it was kind of a cult religion. They made 477 00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:14,670 statements like Catholics are going to hell. 478 00:35:15,470 --> 00:35:19,390 We're back with Karen Kennedy and Brian Kennedy, the mother and brother of 479 00:35:19,390 --> 00:35:22,190 Andrea Yates. What happened to that girl? 480 00:35:22,910 --> 00:35:23,910 Wannake. 481 00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:25,910 Satan. A preacher. 482 00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:28,090 Andrew has introduced him through Russell. 483 00:35:28,330 --> 00:35:30,930 You paint him as part of the villain of the piece? Oh, absolutely. 484 00:35:31,210 --> 00:35:33,510 She's always talking about the devil. Everybody's going to hell. 485 00:35:34,350 --> 00:35:36,270 Everybody's a sinner. And he preached to Andrea. 486 00:35:36,650 --> 00:35:39,050 Yeah, but I mean, he's got some type of a cult following. 487 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,640 What do you think about it being referred to as a cult? 488 00:35:44,860 --> 00:35:45,940 Well, it could be seen that way. 489 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,800 But, I mean, I don't think it is. 490 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,400 It's a fine line, I'll admit that. 491 00:36:00,220 --> 00:36:01,220 Interesting. 492 00:36:23,259 --> 00:36:23,760 I asked 493 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:30,960 to 494 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,460 talk to you because there's a lot of things I just wanted to ask you and get 495 00:36:35,460 --> 00:36:39,620 your advice on. Your story and your family has been such a significant part 496 00:36:39,620 --> 00:36:40,618 my life. 497 00:36:40,620 --> 00:36:46,300 This religion, this ideology had absolutely fractured our family and 498 00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:51,760 to affect us today, even though we have never had to face the pain that your 499 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,860 family had to face. 500 00:36:55,450 --> 00:36:59,950 His whole thing is, like, what's the sixth of us, and everybody else is going 501 00:36:59,950 --> 00:37:03,150 hell, basically. Yes, he will be saved, like, in the days of Noah. Yeah. 502 00:37:03,690 --> 00:37:08,630 You become a caterpillar, you go into a cocoon, and then eventually become a 503 00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:10,070 butterfly, and then you're saved. 504 00:37:10,290 --> 00:37:13,870 That's the result to us. So it was like, how do you get into Michael's favor? 505 00:37:14,190 --> 00:37:17,590 Oh, yeah, that starts bordering on manipulation, right? I mean, if there's 506 00:37:17,590 --> 00:37:20,610 carrot and there's a bar and the bar keeps going up, you never get there, so 507 00:37:20,610 --> 00:37:26,150 don't. So for me, I thought, okay, well, he's not God, so I'm not going to worry 508 00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:28,610 too much about his heaven and hell speech. 509 00:37:29,230 --> 00:37:34,670 How did you hear the same teachings that my parents heard and you took that from 510 00:37:34,670 --> 00:37:38,730 it? I think it's a mistake I made with Andrea is that, you know, I was raised 511 00:37:38,730 --> 00:37:43,910 a tradition of, you know, grace and forgiveness, not a tradition of, you 512 00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:44,950 fire and brimstone, right? 513 00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:47,850 So when she heard this heaven and hell stuff. 514 00:37:48,730 --> 00:37:51,270 You know, did it make her more concerned than she otherwise would have been 515 00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:54,610 about her standing before God? I think, of course. How could it not? Your 516 00:37:54,610 --> 00:37:57,410 situation is probably more similar to Andrea's than it is to mine. 517 00:37:58,650 --> 00:38:01,990 It helps me just try to understand my own parents more. 518 00:38:02,290 --> 00:38:07,110 And I love my parents. I want to have a relationship with them. You know, I see 519 00:38:07,110 --> 00:38:09,730 them. I understand how they were taken advantage of. 520 00:38:11,770 --> 00:38:15,030 Can I tell you something I 100 % believe? 521 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,280 what the Wernicke's would say and my parents' definition of God until I was 522 00:38:21,220 --> 00:38:27,920 And when I found out what happened with your 523 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:34,820 family, I was jealous of your 524 00:38:34,820 --> 00:38:37,260 kids because they did it. 525 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,920 In my definition of heaven, they, yeah. 526 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,160 Oh, wow. 527 00:38:49,860 --> 00:38:55,980 And I'm sorry I felt that way because I don't know what you... 528 00:38:55,980 --> 00:38:57,420 That's irresponsible. 529 00:38:57,740 --> 00:38:58,840 I'm so sorry. 530 00:39:00,220 --> 00:39:01,220 But yeah. 531 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:11,620 I guess I hadn't realized how much some have struggled with... and what the 532 00:39:11,620 --> 00:39:15,380 impact of his messaging has been. But there are a lot of people whose lives 533 00:39:15,380 --> 00:39:18,980 a completely different route than they would have and who are still suffering 534 00:39:18,980 --> 00:39:22,180 from emotional damage from that exposure. 535 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:23,800 And I had no idea. 536 00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:29,460 Yours is an amazing story because it started so young. You know, you were 537 00:39:29,460 --> 00:39:30,460 into that. 538 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,600 It's most of the conversation we'd have over a beer, I hope. 539 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,220 I know, let's have a beer. 540 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:38,600 Yeah. 541 00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:40,720 No, 542 00:39:41,620 --> 00:39:42,620 likewise, yeah. 543 00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:47,200 The tragedy in our family is related. 544 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:55,040 I think this has maybe helped expose a bit of a pattern of manipulation with 545 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,480 Warneckys. They're so exclusive, they're going to heaven, everyone else is going 546 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:00,480 to hell. 547 00:40:01,060 --> 00:40:05,740 I think that, looking back, I miscalculated the effect on Andrea. 548 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,040 Now, I believe her delusions... 549 00:40:09,370 --> 00:40:13,310 could well have been influenced by her exposure to the Warneckys. 550 00:40:15,170 --> 00:40:18,550 If I had to do it all over, I would not have introduced her to them. 551 00:40:32,450 --> 00:40:36,170 I'll never be able to love as freely as I did before the tragedy. 552 00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:38,130 I'll try, but... 553 00:40:38,670 --> 00:40:39,670 It's not easy. 554 00:40:42,830 --> 00:40:48,650 The way that I see it, we're this tiny blue dot in an enormous universe that's 555 00:40:48,650 --> 00:40:49,890 barely a speck, you know. 556 00:40:50,130 --> 00:40:52,110 That's the reality. That's what we can see. 557 00:40:53,370 --> 00:40:55,210 It's a whole harsh universe. 558 00:40:56,670 --> 00:40:58,810 I hope this isn't it, you know. 49094

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