All language subtitles for Britains Countryside Killers S02E04 720p HDTV H264-JFF[EZTVx.to]

The perfect murder, the unsolvable
crime, does it really exist?

In a TV first, we reveal the cutting
-edge technology now used by British

to join the dots and reveal new evidence
in all homicide investigations.

I'm Tim Tate. I've been an investigative
journalist for almost 50 years.

I'm Sam Robbins, and I'm a criminal
intelligence analyst. For over 20 years,

I've worked alongside detectives on
major murder investigations.

Together in this new series, we are
going to discover the fatal mistakes

prevented the perfect murder from ever
being committed.

Cases of medical murder are thankfully
very rare. Doctors and nurses

are dedicated to caring for, to saving
the sick.

And that's what makes the appalling
crimes committed by

state -enrolled nurse Beverly Allitt so
shocking.

On the 30th of April of 1991, there was
some confusion at the hospital following

the deaths and collapses of a number of
children there, and some of it may well

have been criminal.

We had four deaths and 13 children and
23 attacks, and there's no doubt

about it at all, they were all down to
Beverley.

Nobody had got a bad word to say about
Beverley Allitt initially.

They all thought she would potentially
be a good nurse.

She was kind, caring, chatty, friendly.

One of the parents actually asked
Beverly Elliot to be a godparent for

children.

You do not expect the caring professions
to harm children or harm patients.

Bev Allitt is that little minority group
that have taken advantage of the

situation they're in for their own
advantage.

At some stage in Beverly Allitt's mind,
she thought that she had committed the

perfect murder.

Beverly Allitt, killer nurse.

What my trade, journalists, always refer
to these cases as killer angels.

The reality is far more sinister than
that, though, isn't it?

Yes, very much so.

Anyone looking to murder within that
environment is a serial killer and will

carry on until they are stopped.

So spotting a pattern early is
absolutely critical when intervening in

cases. Because when you look at this...

is a relatively short period of time.

59 days in which she killed four
children, attempted to kill three

more, and badly injured a further six.

That's an extraordinarily short time
period.

It's a prolific series of offending. I
was so shocked to realise it was 59 days

and she'd managed to inflict that much
damage and death in that time.

Let's start...

At the beginning, what do we know about
Alec's childhood and her behaviour

during it?

She'd had a lot of illnesses as a child
and there were incidents where you could

describe her as a tension seeker.

There was incidents at school where she
fell off the bike or she fell off a wall

and she was the one who always craved
attention, always wanted a plaster on

knee.

When she went to hospital with an
infection, she'd taken boiling water

mouth so that the temperature was
succeeded.

She used to catheterise herself and
cause all sorts of problems.

She was constantly needing attention,
which saw her hospitalised at one point

and had her appendix taken out.

Not because she had appendicitis, her
appendix were perfectly healthy, but

was her ability to manipulate and an act
and fame being sick that the doctors

took her appendix out and there was
actually nothing wrong with them. So

how adept she was at that age, at a very
young age, in order to manipulate

adults and within a medical setting.

And she's doing this why?

Essentially to bring attention onto
herself.

We now sort of would call this
fictitious disorder, otherwise known as

Munchausen syndrome, where she would
create various situations where she

have to see doctors and medical
professionals to get help for various

types of illnesses and injuries.

It's certainly the attention that she
craved which led her to later crimes.

So as a child and a teenager, she's
suffering from Munchausen. Yeah.

She gets a nursing qualification.

She does.

But even during that, she displays
behaviour which should have raised a red

flag. Really disturbing stuff that could
have made the people that were

supervising her or running the course
think maybe something is not well

here.

During the course of training at
Grantham Hospital, there had been

bizarre... Incidents, faeces put in a
fridge, curtains set on fire, that type

of thing within the nursing home.

And whilst the hospital authorities
couldn't say that Beverly Allitt was

responsible, there were suggestions that
she was always present when these

events took place.

Beverly Allitt should have never been in
nursing in the first place. She was

woefully underqualified.

It's an environment that she should have
never entered and most certainly never

been left unsupervised because she
wasn't qualified to be a paediatric

But the issue at the time was that the
hospital was chronically short -staffed

and Allitt was parachuted in as an
emergency contract help.

For an individual who has these quite
sadistic or manipulative

and they find themselves working in
these environments, they will often come

across situations of life and death
almost on a daily basis, and we can see

fragile something is. If somebody didn't
intervene at a certain point, then

somebody may have died.

And they will start to see if they
actually did a certain act or withheld a

certain medication, that they would have
an influence over those people.

And sometimes those kind of lines blur
themselves between life and death,

and harm. And sometimes it becomes
almost a bit of a game in some respects

people to hold that power over whether
they live or die.

So within two days, she's left alone at
night, which is...

Shocking enough, but that does give you
an indication as to how critical those

staffing levels were.

And that first case, February 1991, she
displays

such manipulative behaviour that she
persuades the child's parents to

go home and get some rest and to leave
Liam Taylor in her care.

Seven -week -old Liam Taylor was brought
in with a routine chest infection, and

Alec saw her opportunity.

That night, under Alec's sole care,
Liam's condition

deteriorated. He turned blue and
developed mysterious blotches

on his skin. Even more strange...

When his body went into spasm, the
ward's alarms didn't go off.

By the time a crash team arrived, Liam
had suffered

irreversible brain damage.

Ultimately, and on medical advice, his
parents agreed to switch off his life

support system.

Little Liam Taylor became Beverly
Allards.

First victim.

I don't think at that time that she
considered that she was committing the

perfect murder.

I think at that time she was only
inflicting the abuse

on the children to draw attention to
herself.

Once the first child died, I think there
is a possibility that she then thought

that she could get away.

with additional murders.

Within two weeks, she's at it again.

Timothy Hardwick, an 11 -year -old who
suffered from cerebral palsy, was

into Ward 4 after suffering an epileptic
seizure.

Those fits were quickly controlled by
drugs.

Beverly Allitt was seen at his bedside,
and...

She called a doctor because the boy was
coughing.

The doctors found that there was
absolutely nothing wrong with this boy,

the treatment was working.

But within two or three minutes, this
boy had stopped breathing.

The resource team were called, but
unfortunately they couldn't save him. He

at the hospital.

She's moved on from harming herself or
appearing to harm herself, Munchausen

syndrome,

Others, but still to get attention for
herself.

Yes, and psychologically that's a big
step.

It's one thing to think, well, I can
sustain sickness and I've got awful

and pains and poor me.

To then project that onto children to
the point where you make them so

unwell that their hearts are stopping.
The level that that syndrome then has to

move on is shocking.

And she doesn't stop?

No. And she never would have stopped.

She never would have stopped.

Never? No.

Her third victim, one -year -old
Kayleigh Desmond, was admitted to Ward 4

routine chest infection.

Initially, she seemed to be progressing
well, to be coming out of it.

But after a period when Allitt was again
left in sole charge...

Little Kayleigh took her turn for the
worse.

She was rushed away from the hospital to
another hospital in Nottingham, and

that ultimately saved her life.

When the doctors at Nottingham Hospital
examined Kayleigh, they were puzzled,

because underneath her armpit there was
a puncture mark, and beside it a little

air bubble, like a little air blister.

They assume that it's an accident, so no
investigation is undertaken.

The question is, when those children
arrive and are admitted to the

Hospital, how is someone looking at that
saying, we've got another one from Ward

4? It's not just that they're coming
from that particular hospital, they're

coming from the same ward.

I'd like to think today that that would
have set alarm bells off at that point,

possibly earlier.

There was little doubt that Beverly
Allitt abused her position as a nurse.

She used the opportunity to draw
attention to herself, to make herself

special and to make herself look very
competent.

And that is why she did these things.

There had been a succession of medical
crises on Ward 4, and the

common factor in all of this was Beverly
Allitt. It should have raised

enormous red flags.

Over the period between the 21st of
February and the 22nd of

April, there were...

numerous collapses of children involving
13 children.

The next tipping point if you want is a
week after the third attack

when a five -month -old boy comes in,
Paul Crampton, with a bronchial

Paul Crampton had been in hospital, and
in the first three days, nothing had

occurred. At the end of those three
days, he'd had his first collapse.

Eventually, they decided he was
hypoglycemic, put him on a glucose drip,

recovered. The next day, Beverly Allitt
went to take the drip down, and he again

suffered a second hypoglycemic attack.

Blood was taken at that time.

An analysis of that blood showed that
there was an insulin level in the blood

500 milliunits per litre. Now that is
extortionately high when you consider

any child should have somewhere between
10 and 15 milliunits per litre of

insulin in the blood.

Once again, the child was treated with
glucose and recovered, and there

another three days where nothing
occurred with this child, so much so...

that on the fourth day he was expected
to go home.

On that day, father arrived at the
hospital and found his child blue in a

collapsed state.

He was resuscitated and was taken to the
Queen's Medical Centre at Nottingham.

The sheer scale of Alex's attacks is
huge. If we went through each of the

that you've identified and laid out,
we'd be here.

Next week? Yes.

But the case of the Phillips twins in
April 1991 sticks out.

Yes. Becky and Casey were twins who'd
been born prematurely. Becky arrives in

Ward 4 on the 1st of April suffering
with gastroenteritis. She goes into Alex

Care.

By the 3rd of April, she's found
unresponsive. Her sugar levels are too

she's cold to the touch.

Very, very sadly, Becky dies.

She dies in her parents' arms. She does,
which is utterly heartbreaking.

Blood was taken at that time, and that
again was analysed, and that showed that

this little girl had got 9 ,660
milliunits of insulin in the blood. So

here are two children that over that
period of time had been poisoned with

insulin.

Of course, in a medical environment,
then...

The chemical such as insulin would have
been readily available and they would

have been known to be used
therapeutically.

Beverly Allitt would have access to
those individuals.

and access to the materials necessary to
administer these types of overdoses or

materials that would elicit other
reactions such as heart attack, heart

And of course the detection of those
overdoses, those injections, would only

really come to light some days later
once those individuals had been

to forensic testing.

The twin of Becky Phillips, Katie
Phillips, was taken in purely as a

Beverly Allitt was allocated her care
and was seen at one point to have turned

the cot through 90 degrees. This had the
effect of making it very difficult for

anybody passing down a corridor to see
what was going on.

The little girl was heard squealing and
stopped breathing.

Her chest was pumped so hard that it
broke ribs.

Sadly, this little girl suffered
extensive brain damage during this. She

into convulsions after the initial
attack on her.

Once again, that's a step forward in
behaviour, isn't it? It's like glory

chasing, that I tried, I tried to save
this child.

All about getting attention.

All about getting attention.

We know that Alec caused all of that.

By this point, obviously, the parents of
the Phillips twins have spent a lot of

time in hospital and have been so used
to dealing with Beverly,

who's been on the scene of both of their
daughters' extreme medical emergencies.

And at some point...

I'm fairly sure that Elliot has
convinced Katie's mother and father that

actually she is the one that saved Katie
despite the fact that she has caused

that damage.

But such is her manipulation and her
ability to read people and talk to

that Katie and Becky's mother asked her
to be God's mother to Katie.

That's early April.

Yes. For the next...

Three full weeks, Alec continues, and
more children are attacked and died.

The last child to tragically die under
Alec's care was Claire Peck, who was a

-month -old baby who suffered from
asthma.

The little girl was taken into the
treatment room where Alec was left on

own. Very shortly after, Alec raises the
alarm that the child has stopped

breathing.

The child is resuscitated and the doctor
decides to give a drug called

aminophiline. And the little girl begins
to recover. So much so that the doctor

is so happy, he goes out to speak to the
parents, saying, I don't think you'll

have any more problems now.

Within two minutes, up goes the shout
that she's collapsed.

And on this occasion, they were unable
to resuscitate her.

And that's what raises, finally, the
alarm, isn't it? It is, yes. Finally,

Detective Superintendent Stuart Clifton
is given the case.

I visited the hospital and I got a brief
outline that there were a number of

children over a two -month period who
had suffered unexplained collapses.

They'd had 23 incidents over a 59 -day
period.

which they couldn't account for.

When I looked at the initial report from
Sir David Hull, I began to question

whether there was anything that was
worthy of police investigation.

But a gut feeling said that there was.

Clifton's suspicions weren't shared by
his bosses, were they? They weren't. He

had to fight really hard to get this
case looked at properly.

At the time of the Beverly Allick case,
I was a detective constable working in

the child protection unit at Grantham
Police Station.

I'd previously been at the forensic
science laboratory at Nottingham.

Superintendent Clifton thought I'd be
useful on that sort of inquiry.

At the same time, he spoke to my
brother, who's also a detective

the police force.

Actually, there was 24 on the team.

There were seven sergeants, seven DCs
were investigated, and we had the Holmes

office, which is the computer system for
dealing with murders.

The inquiry started in May of 1991, and
I first came into contact with Beverly

Allitt on the 7th of May. And at that
stage, she was part of the inquiry, as

every other nurse and doctor on the
ward. It was merely a fact -finding

I decided that I would concentrate the
inquiry teams on one little boy, a

boy called Paul Crampton.

Blood was taken on this occasion.

I tasked one of my detective inspectors
with finding a sample of that blood, and

he eventually found one at another
hospital at Boston in Lincolnshire.

And it was found to contain not 500
milliunits per litre, but 43

,167 milliunits per litre of insulin in
the blood.

Forensic science is such an enormous
subject that all of the things that we

mentioned, such as toxicology,
pathology, continuity of evidence,

psychiatry, they all fall under the
umbrella of forensic science. And so, in

this case, we're able to stitch together
a narrative which closed the net around

Beverly Allitt.

When we went to the hospital initially,
they couldn't identify the fact that

Insulin had been injected into the child
rather than be produced naturally.

When we did research, I found that C
-peptide, which is just an enzyme, was

released when people developed insulin
in the body.

In Paul Crampton, there was no
proportionate quantity of C -peptide,

that this was insulin that had been
administered to this child.

So here for the first time we've got
some clear evidence that somebody has

attacked children on the ward.

We begin to look at the collapses of all
of the children in minute

detail.

As soon as it became obvious that there
was more than one child involved and we

had evidence to that effect.

and obviously it became a very different
inquiry.

It was probably the most intensive and
largest hospital inquiry at the time.

I tasked the members of my team with
producing a chart that showed

who was on duty.

when each of these collapses occurred.

That sounds like an easy project, but
the duty rotor does not necessarily

reflect what happens on the day, and so
we had to gather information.

I actually went and spoke to a professor
of mathematics who did an

analytical survey of it. If you put in
the 23 incidents

over 59 days...

there was at least 42 people involved,
which were nurses, cleaners, visitors to

the hospital.

And it came up that there was one person
who would be the person responsible.

That chart quite clearly showed that
Beverly Allitt was the only

nurse that was on duty for every one of
the collapses.

Nurse Alla had various MOs in committing
these crimes, which included injecting

insulin, injecting potassium. In the
case of Katie Phillips, she squeezed the

child and broke its ribs.

She injected air into the axilla, so air
went up to the heart, caused a heart

attack. And there was 23 of these
incidents over 13 children

over a short period of time.

Three weeks into the inquiry, I decided
that I would have Beverly Allitt

arrested. It was a girl that was about
21, 22 years of age that had never been

in trouble with the police. And in my
naivety, I suppose I thought that

when she came into police custody that
she would begin to tell us the truth.

I couldn't have been more wrong.

The arrest at Beverley Island led her
home and she was brought to the police

station for interview.

I went with other officers to her house
where she was initially arrested on

suspicion of theft of a key and that key
was on a key ring that gave access to

the insulin fridge.

Having been arrested, my job was to
accompany her to Grantham Police Station

with being female.

She gave no signs whatsoever to me that
she was guilty.

She was quite normal to talk to.

She didn't panic or anything like that.

The house was searched.

Amongst other things found was a ward
allocations book.

The ward allocation book became
important because somebody had taken it.

obviously Beverly Allitt from the ward,
and it showed that Beverly Allitt had

been allocated the care of quite a
number of the children that had

died.

I interviewed her on the first evening
after her arrest.

The best way to describe her is she was
like two different people.

Outside of the formal interview, she was
friendly, chatty.

trying to make you a friend in some
respect.

But there was a distinct change when the
button on the recording interview was

switched on.

At no time did she show any emotion.

At no time did she expect to be charged
with these

offences. She thought at that stage
she'd got away with it.

If you were someone who cared and you
went into a profession that was all

caring and saving people's lives, if you
were presented with multiple deaths,

you'd be absolutely bereft. You'd be,
you know, sobbing and... Wouldn't you

an explanation?

If you were Beverly Allitt, all these
children had died or suffered

injuries while you were there, wouldn't
you be saying, how did that happen?

Is it the medicine? Is there something
wrong with the medical equipment?

Is there someone else on that ward that
is a danger to children? I can just

imagine you'd be so distressed if you
were questioned about that.

And there were no signs of that at all
in the interview. Nothing.

I remember going to her cell one morning
to get her out for an interview, and

she'd lost a lot of weight, and as soon
as she saw me, she lifted up her top and

said, Oh, look, you know, I've lost a
lot of weight. Can you notice? As if we

were the best of friends.

Then you would take her to an interview
room, switch the tape on, and she'd get

this antsy attitude.

You know, I didn't do anything.

When she was on bail, she went to live
with another nurse.

She attacked.

The grandson gave him drugs from the
grandmother and he ended up in hospital.

They found that he'd had a hyperglycemic
attack.

Even this 13 -year -old boy said, well,
that's strange, isn't it? It's the same

thing that's happened to these babies at
Grantham Hospital. What would the press

say if they got hold of that?

We thought that she would be afraid and
that she would begin to talk to us. She

would talk about anything.

other than the matter in hand.

She completely and utterly denied
anything and distanced herself from

suggestions that she was there at the
bedside.

When we were upsetting her, if we were
getting close to the truth, she became

antsy and tried to deflect it back to
us.

Some tapes of the interview were
released.

We're going to listen to some of Beverly
Allitt's interview tapes.

I think they're revealing.

What do you think?

Could you give me a full name, please?

Beverly Gail Allitt.

Are you smiling?

Is it funny?

Is it, you know, light -hearted?

Can't you take the interview serious?

You look like one of those.

You tell me what I'm doing to my
children.

I'm sticking to my story. I did not do
it.

On all them times I was on duty and
thinking I'm going to be so stupid to

doing it. I don't know how stupid you
are one way or another. See, I've been

there for a lot of occasions when these
babies have gone off.

A lot of them.

Probably apart from about three of them.

Which I haven't been there for.

I can't get it through to nobody. And I
tell you what, no matter what you say,

I'm sticking to my story. I did not do
it.

What's your instant reaction to that?

Disbelief, to be honest with you. The
youth...

of language the way that she's referring
to deceased children it's really quite

quite shocking it speaks to
defensiveness of me but that she's also

any responsibility at all for her
actions and to refer to them in that

is disgusting moving on down through her
interview let's listen to this one if i

what i suspect are the line of question
i'm taking

It's in your interests not to tell the
truth, isn't it?

Not to tell the truth? I'm telling the
truth. If what I suspect is the truth, i

.e. you administered something
unlawfully to Paul Crampton or caused

illness for these other children, it's
in your interests not to tell the truth,

isn't it?

No. Isn't it? No.

I'd tell the truth. I'm not going to lie
to you. You can't understand the

question. Do you know what causes
hyperglycemia?

Diabetes.

Well, apart from that.

No. I don't... I'm very...

I'm not very well upon the diabetic
stuff anyway.

No.

I know that if it was given insulin,
that would make his shovel go down.

I accept that you're in custody, amongst
other things, for the suspected event

murder. You accept that now, which is a
very serious allegation.

So if it takes you a long time to think
about it, then fair enough. It doesn't

matter how long you make me think about
it, I won't be able to tell you the

exact time.

I could go away for a year, come back
and say, still no wider.

They can fed up of being in it.

It's very contradictory, isn't it? And
in that first clip, there's smiling and

not taking it quite seriously.

And there's the, I'm the nurse in this
situation.

And, you know, I've looked after plenty
of children.

And then all of a sudden, in the second
clip, there's the, I'm just a nurse in

this situation.

Yeah, with the removal of...

She's flip -flopped between, I'm the
nurse I looked after and plenty of

lived, but also, I'm the nurse, how
would I know? And really, you'd expect a

qualified nurse to know what causes
sugar to rise and fall.

You'd hope.

Yes.

Shall we listen to the next clip? Yes.

What's the motive?

What's the motive for doing that? You
are trying to establish yourself as a

competent nurse.

I'm not competent. Far from it.

No, I'm one of the brunt -crackiest
nurse out.

But I'd rather tell you, I'd rather just
say I've already done it, even if I

didn't just to get away.

With all these facts we've put to you,
we've spoken to you individually about

each of the two of you.

Surely you've got something to say about
those children.

No reply.

Do you happen that you didn't intend to
harm, or cause them serious injury, or

indeed kill?

The only person with real answers is
yourself, isn't it?

No, Clive.

One key word screams out of that
interview to me, motive.

She's asking the police what he thinks
her motive might be.

That's calculating.

I very much hear somebody who has got
total disdain for authority and when

challenged to bring her credentials to
the table.

She dilutes it, dilutes it down and
takes the responsibility away.

Total disdain for the fact that she's
been caught out.

And challenging them.

And challenging them, yeah.

You don't see that sort of response very
often in interviews.

So that people are willing to speak, but
they're almost incriminating themselves

in the manner in which they're doing so.

Really interesting audio and language
and attitude speaks volumes to me.

It's basically saying you do your worst.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

How often do you get access to tapes
like that? It's really unusual.

when you work on an inquiry and it's a
live inquiry, you can choose to watch

tapes because you're part of that
investigation team.

But to be able to...

helicopter above and look at all the
patterns of offending and to get the

and actually get to listen to the audio
is really rare.

I can't lie, it's been disturbing
listening to her and her attitude

really, really serious and tragic
situation.

Press officers from various newspapers
embedded and living at Grantham because

of the number of children that had been
attacked and the number of children that

had died in a very short period of time.

This obviously caused great concern to
people who were visiting Grantham

Hospital and I'm sure there were people
who would not attend Grantham Hospital

purely as a result of this case.

We supported...

The findings of the investigation team
that put Allitt at bedside with forensic

evidence that added to a case that was
in the main circumstantial.

And as a result, we had sufficient
evidence to charge her.

Allitt's trial at Nottingham Crown Court
in 1993 captivated Britain. It

horrified.

up and down the country.

It was the sort of trial where the
parents of the collapsed and

dead children were present, so there
were obviously tears when the evidence

heard by these people.

On the day that I accompanied her to
court, we were in the van together, and

was... Looking out like this at the
crowds that had gathered outside the

courthouse, it was obvious that she was
really enjoying the fact that there were

so many people there. Even though they
were all sort of threatening her and

shouting at her and raising fists, she,
it's fair to say, was not alarmed. She

was more excited about it.

She wasn't committed to the trial.

One period of time she decided not to
attend.

And I think the judge allowed her not to
attend.

She was a known manipulator and she
would spend time in the prison

hospital wing rather than turning up to
court.

Despite all the theatrics, despite all
her protestations of innocence, in the

end, Allitt was convicted.

When the jury returned with their
verdicts... I think it's fair to say

there wasn't a dry eye in the house, and
that included the police officers.

So she's convicted of the 13 offences,
four murder, nine grievous bodily harm

with intent, and I think it's fair to
say that there was absolutely no

from her at all on conviction.

Justice was achieved for these families.

And for the relatives, she received 13
life sentences.

And in my mind, she should never be
released, ever.

When Alec is convicted, and she's
convicted and sentenced to multiple life

terms, what would you expect to have
happened?

I would have expected her to go to
prison.

and to have stayed there for the rest of
her life.

But?

As the manipulation continues, Beverly
Allitt did go to prison for a short

amount of time, and then she was
transferred to a secure hospital.

When you say a secure hospital, people
think Broadmoor, but there's Rampton as

well, and that's where she went. Yes.

Conditions? Much more pleasant than
prison.

a lot more um liberty in terms of your
movement and the treatment that you get

and also you have doctors and mental
health workers looking after you she's

getting exactly what she wanted yes yeah
she's getting attention yeah

i'm sure that was manipulation on her
part and i don't think that that's

justice for the parents

About three or four months later, I went
to see her at Rampton Hospital, where

she was currently held.

On this visit, I asked her if she would
like to tell me what she'd done.

At that particular time, she admitted
nine of the 13 offences.

She offered no explanation and refused
to offer any explanation about why she'd

done it.

through her solicitor, wrote to the Home
Office and admitted the other four.

So, in the end, she admitted
responsibility

for all 13 cases that she was convicted
of.

I would think by the time she comes out
of prison, she will be way past

committing any other offences.

because of her age and she won't have
the opportunity and I'm satisfied that

Bavia committed these offences because
she was given the opportunity.

Had this case happened today

I think intervention would have come a
lot earlier for multiple reasons. I

that metrics at hospitals are better
understood and looked at on a regular

basis. You've got teams looking at data
to ensure things like this don't happen

and looking at how many deaths there are
and statistics, which I think would

have played very heavily into it should
this have happened now.

If there are any failings identified in
any profession, certainly in forensic

science, then we have to learn from
those lessons. And I have no doubt that

medical profession have studied
exhaustively this case and perhaps

and ensure that safeguards are in place.

I've dealt with a lot of murder
inquiries over the years and I think

probably tops them in the sense that
it's a serial killer within a

hospital environment.

You don't expect nursing staff to be
killing people that they're employed to

protect.

I had 33 years of police service.

It's the one inquiry that sticks with me
the most.

It was hard work dealing with the
parents, particularly the parents that

lost the children, because obviously
there's a sensitive side to that as

but we had to get all the information
and that from them.

It was touching.

In her own mind, did she think she would
get away with perfect murders?

I would suggest yes, because she had...

everything that she needed in order to
commit the perfect murders. The victims

were brought to her. She had a plausible
reason as to why they would have died

in each case. So, yes, absolutely.

She certainly felt that she had hidden
the facts from the authorities.

She made a comment to one of the nurses.

They will never be able to prove
anything because they cannot find the

And I think in her own mind, she thought
she couldn't be caught.

It's very, very difficult, I believe,
for anybody to commit a

perfect murder. I think that if police
look at things in minute detail, as we

did in the Alec case, then there will
always be something that...

jumps out and identifies.

It's not always easy to get to that
point and it's particularly difficult, I

think, where you're working in an
environment like a hospital where there

any number of people that could be
responsible.

Certainly in this situation, she thought
she'd got away with the perfect murder

because nobody really suspected her and
the evidence wasn't there.

to point towards her. And it was only
upon the investigation, there was some

circumstantial evidence, really, that
linked her to all of these crimes that

her eventual undoing.

What is so devastating about what you've
laid out is that the patterns are so

clear. Yes.

And when I was doing it, I was really
just like, how did this not get spotted

sooner?

Anyone looking at this...

would say anyone who does that is mad
yes

you think so wouldn't you you would most
certainly think so but she's not

legally mad is she she is not no and the
old the old phrase Bad, not mad.

It could be used for Beverly Allitt
because legally she is not... I mean,

clearly there are mental health issues
there. How could you possibly act in

manner and not have some form of mental
health issues?

However, legally... Legally, she's sane.

Yes.

I don't think she was born evil, but...

Maybe something happened to her in her
life, maybe it didn't. There was no

evidence of that, but then there was no
evidence of her actually committing any

of these crimes.

It was all circumstantial evidence that
we had to put together, which made it

obviously difficult and a complex
inquiry.

But she was a very, very strange woman.

In the end, it was her own behaviour,
her own aberrant behaviour.

which are clear symptoms of Munchausen
and Munchausen's by proxy. It was that,

rather than anything else, which
attracted the suspicion, which

led to the police investigation, which
caused her to be charged and ultimately

convicted. That, in the end, was the
difference

between perfect murders and almost
perfect ones. Thank you.