All language subtitles for Why The Tomorrow People Ended The 1979 Strike & The Lost Series english

people from all sorts of different backgrounds I
don't know but that's the way it worked out. That

was quite an advanced idea for the early
1970s and I think that's one of the keys

to its success. >> Yes, I think it looked
good. It was very very difficult. I remember

the first day of shooting we only got about
8 seconds in the can. The whole studio was

upside down and I used to have my cans on
and I could hear the the I could hear the

uh everything coming up from everywhere.
People screaming and yelling and it was

appalling. I mean, I don't know how we ever
did it at all. But we got we got to learn

how to do it and then it was it was fine.
>> Well, because the character was in my

view not established when I took it up and
I'm not sure that anyone's character was

established particularly. I think everyone's uh
personality to a certain extent is reflecting

in the roles they played. Um as I say I
had always played up to that point rather

conventional ex not even ex public school
boys or arrogant characters or whatever.

Um and it was a sort of role I found easy
to play. I don't think it reflects my own

personality. I'd hate to think that it did.
Um but I think I took a lot of what I had

done previously and put that into the
the role of John. John clearly was an

authority of character. It needed a leader. Even
though it was supposed to be very democratic,

needed somebody to lead it, push it along.
Tim, I suppose, was the ultimate authority,

but of course, he wasn't and didn't have
a physical presence. And the idea of him

having a physical presence didn't arise till
much later in the series. So, John really,

I think, had to had to be seen to be taking the
lead to a certain extent. Um, I don't think it

was quite as Roger had envvisaged it, but I
think it seemed to work. you had a slightly a

character who was slightly more authoritative
than the others, a little bit more distant

than the others, more practical, more down
to earth. Um, who thought things through,

wasn't quite so as impulsive as say Michael
Holloway was in the later ones. Um, I can

only say it seemed to work. Therefore, there was
there was no problem with it. >> It was good. Nick

Nick was it was always good to have Nick around
because there was a certain kind of security.

I mean, anything technical that I didn't
understand, um, I'd ask Nick and he'd speak so

quickly, I'd always have to ask him about three
times before before I understood. But he was he

was, um, he was a kind of security for me in the
in the technical side of things and, you know,

what what was really going on. Um, whereas
I think Philip was a security for me in the

in the kind of human aspect.
It's all right, Sammy. You know,

there really is no need to worry. >> I
always got on well with Nick, but um I

got on well with all of them, but I don't know
that everybody got on in the same sort of way,

you know, with each other because Nick was the
the Nick was the sort of school prefect, you

see. And the school prefect always had, you know,
you had you had to keep the other children had to

be sort of, you know, kept in line. And they used
to resent it in some ways, you know. And I mean,

you probably heard some some of the remarks that
people have made about each about each other,

but for me, I I just love them all. Didn't
bother me at all. John was a very conventional

character at a time when people were trying
to break with convention. Um I think I think

he was about as authoritarian as you could get
away with without him coming across as an adult

in the program, which would not have worked
at all. um he was a bit of a dinosaur because

he was always holding them back and and saying
let's think this through and let's be careful

and let's not be impulsive and so forth. Um and
also um as a character perhaps he was uh better

spoken than the others, appeared to come from
a different sort of background from the others.

um all these things were not terribly popular
um just after the 60s and early '7s when people

were trying to break with that sort of mold
if you like. So in that respect John was a

bit of a dinosaur. >> When I when I recently
watched it I thought I was more motherly than

I than I can remember being in a way. So
there there were parts there were parts

of Carol that um that are actually quite
like that are actually quite like me. Um

there are other parts that uh that make me
cringe actually. Um, I think now and and

perhaps perhaps at the time I think uh some
of her more um koi koi nature didn't didn't

seem to fit as as I look back. I mean I think
she she was sort of quite koi sometimes and

I used to think oh this could be quite funny
but I didn't think it was particularly funny

you know looking back. I think at that time
the whole sort of trend or fashion for girls

was was a bit dumb blondie innocent you know
flutter flutter kind of thing and so so I did

used to play on that because I used to
win with it now I can't win with it so

um I'd want to make her I just think
I'd want to be a lot more sincere

>> we started in a booth which was
totally ridiculous because I, you know,

was fainting all the time with the heat and I
couldn't hear myself. I couldn't see them. Then

I had a little monitor and a chair and my my mic
uh in one particular place, but by the end I was

just wandering around the set wherever I wanted
to be, whatever, you know, as long as I could

have the the microphone uh leads and everything.
But I was totally free to to to do from wherever.

I could have, you know, done it from the
L. I mean, any anything. It was just so

easy at the end. >> What I remember
of Philillip was this very very calm,

this very very calm man who was always
terribly interested in um in what I was up to,

not just in the tomorrow people, but in my life.
Um, and somehow he he used to draw a lot out of

me that I wouldn't necessarily talk about with
with other people, but because he had such an

interest and was always 100% there. He was a
great listener and um so I used to make him

laugh a lot and because of that he used to make me
laugh a lot and I remember he always used to say,

"Oh Sammy, you should write a book. You should
write a book." one of these days. >> I think I

was allowed I was allowed to use my own
experience and personality in it. And I

mean I remember the notices all liked Tim when
they first came out. They all said Tim was was

was a unique creation. So I was very pleased
about that. Although it was influenced by HAL

in 2001 as you pro you know as it was obviously
based on that but we had to make it we had to

make it something that was was unique. He had
to be a living computer >> as you say it was a

booth and he used to just pop out every now and
again and laugh and have a joke and we' all kind

of like you know but we never see him so he was
this kind of like globial up there and they used

to synthesize his voice as well so you'd hear
what you hear on the tomorrow people I seem to

remember is actually what we'd hear on the set
and um so you'd react accordingly to it so you

actually can like I know it sounds very strange
but you react to this this set and you would talk

to it and you wouldn't think that it Phil and
then Phil would pop out of his booth and say

hello you know hello love you know marvelous well
I was much older I suppose I was you know I was a

vankular figure to all of them they were children
and uh some you know some of them did become very

close to me as an avankular figure uh teacher
you know guru whatever it it's quite you know

natural with children that they do look up to
to that sort of kind of figure and Of course,

we had all lots of fun as well. They
were terribly rude at times and oh gosh,

the things that they used to do to me, but it
was, you know, I loved them all and it was great.

>> He was a daddy. >> Yeah. I mean, he he was
just the older guy. It's going to be go down

to someone. And I mean, if I suppose if Phil
had left, it would just gone straight to them,

you know, the next older member of the cast,
which would have been Nick. [laughter] >> Well,

PVC was growing up in those days,
if that's the right word. Um,

I remember first meeting him in the canteen
at Tame's on our first rehearsal day. Um,

when we got chatting and I found it very easy to
get on with. Um, I don't know whether you'll like

me saying this really, but I mean he was a child
when I first met him and he was an adolescent

when we parted company and um,
I think to a certain extent,

you know, we certainly had a laugh and
and during [music] his formative years

um, I think I had some sort of an influence.
He may deny that. Um, and I'm not necessarily

saying that was a good influence. But, uh,
we, um, I certainly had an influence, I think,

on Peter because, as I say, he was growing up
throughout the series. Um, Kenny came and went,

but, I had no influence on him at all really, and
Sammy went. Um, Elizabeth again was an adult. Um,

so the relationship was different, but with Peter,
yes, it probably was more older brother, younger

brother, I would suspect. Um, as he
got older, his influences came from

um, other other areas, less suitable
areas, but he'll tell you all about that.

that the contract was offered to me for
another 3 years. Um, but I'd sort of got

it into my head that uh I didn't want to be typ
cast um as a as a young screeching desperate,

you know, mad mad woman as I as I
think um she might have been becoming.

>> You'd have to ask Sammy Windmill,
but I believe that she'd made a

deliberate decision to leave the series.
I think she felt one series was enough.

um as an actress she felt she wanted to move on to
other roles and not get stuck in a series and get

too identified with the program >> but she was you
know she's an adorable little girl as you know and

in those days she was enchanting and she wanted
to go into the theater now a lot of actors of

course do want theater more than anything else
and she she came down to farm as a matter of

fact the red grave theater to do Juliet in Romeo
and Juliet so it was a wonderful opportunity for

her. But I I did regret it. I did regret the fact
that she left. I thought she gave an awful lot to

the program. >> Well, yeah. I I think she did
have a long way to go actually. And I mean,

looking back now, you know, one one always looks
back, but I don't think I could have made her grow

at the time. I really don't. I think I was too
um fixed a in myself as a person and therefore

secondly in that I mean I I as I said before I I
was very much a puppet at that time and I think

that was one of the reasons why um I decided to
to give up acting in the end anyway because I

I wanted to sort of see you know what what I was
without all the the the other influences. I mean,

I'm sure I could have probably done
that and continued to act, but anyway,

that was my choice at the time. >> It was a
shame she left and I think she regrets leaving.

>> I'm sure she regrets leaving, you know, but it
was her decision to make and she wanted to go off

and do her um sitcom, you know, Doctor in the Char
Doctor in Charge or something like that. She was

doing the Doctor series and she did a few bits and
pieces, but I think she she actually stayed. But

um I think it was all quite so quick at that
time. I mean, it's like um Sammy and Steven um

for it was about 6 months. It took us to actually
film this the entire 12 episodes and we got quite

on with each other. They used to come over to
my place. I had parties. I'd like I think I

had my 16th birthday party or 15th and they
were there. So, and they all came around to

the house and we had a big garden party and you
know, stuff like that. So, yeah. But I mean,

she never really hung around after that. We didn't
really see her. I didn't regret it immediately

afterwards at all because um as I said I I was
just continually offered lots and lots of work

and it was always of a great variety and um
and I went back into rep. I did um you know I

did I was able to do lots of Shakespeare. I
was able to um and then I got offered another

TV series after that or or several episodes.
Anyway, >> I think I think Roger felt that

Kenny's character hadn't worked as well as he'd
hoped. Um he wasn't a professional actor and to

be fair to him, I don't think uh I think he
found himself a little out of his depth with

some of the other actors and I think it showed
in some of the episodes. So um I think it was

Roger's decision to replace him. We got on
quite well, but he came from Anesar. I think

he went Yeah, he did go to Anares drama school,
but I mean he they thought I couldn't act. I

looked I Sean I was Tom Cruz compared to him. He
was um [laughter] he was you just didn't really

know what he was doing there. At least I bounced
off. I had someone to bounce across, you know,

and luckily Steven was my bounce. >> My um agent
at the time called and said there's an audition.

And I believe at the time they were looking for
young people around the age of 14 and 15. And

I I was in my early 20s.
I couldn't quite see this,

but they've been looking for a long time. So um
I said yes to the audition and I went dressed

um young. So I had a wig which I wore with bunches
um and I wore white ankle socks and shoes. I mean,

I think probably part of the reason I got it
was just the cheek of of turning up at the

um the audition dressed like that. Um but I
read um and I think I I didn't look my age so I

probably looked about um 18 um 17 18. So
that's partly I think why I was given the

role of um Elizabeth. Actually wasn't
called Elizabeth at the time. I think

Roger Price said, "What's your favorite
name?" And I was kind of phased. I said,

"Elizabeth." And that's how the the the
role got its name. >> I think he probably

never thought about it as we never thought
about it in racial terms at all. We just love

Liz. And that was, you know, I don't think
it it occurred to Roger. It wouldn't have

mattered what what nationality or color any
artist was. I think Roger would just have

they would just be people to Roger. Uh >> at the
time, I think people didn't know it was a wig. A

lot of people didn't know it was the wig. And
I think that's because of knowledge really of

um the general community and what they know
about black people. I think nowadays people

would know because people are used to
extensions and weaves on and and so

on and so forth and this, you know,
the texture of um um black people's

hair. And also I think at the time there was um
a tight rope that we as black actors were were

walking. Um I said earlier that we weren't
specifically for black roles and part of

um the assimilation meant that we had to um
look as the audiences expected. So we had to

look have a western look. Um but you'll note
that towards the end of the series I actually

used my own hair and had plats um braiding African
braiding but by that time it was called the bode

derek look which is sort of irks me a little
bit but um but it was actually a traditional

African culture in terms of platting and
Patty Boule used um had her hairing plats

so things were becoming more acceptable then so
it meant that black people didn't have to wear

wigs and didn't have to look western um and
So nowadays, I think people would know that,

you know, this is the natural hair for for black
people is um curly and not straight and brown.

>> I know that when I did see her, I thought
good. You know, I just felt she was right

because she had such such good eyes and such
steady eyes and a genuine face for for for I

think what the part what what the part needed.
I think obviously the tomorrow people had had

um a history certainly in in studio and
so on. So there was a feeling of coming

into something that had been going for
a little while but I think it was still

early enough on in the series to establish
a character and and and maybe partly maybe

that was part of the reason for um casting a
black actress um so that there couldn't be a

confusion about taking on um another person's
role. And I think each tomorrow people really

had came with their own background. So there
wasn't really um for me anyway a feeling of

taking on um things that Sammy did. No, not at
all. >> The first time I broke out and did that

running down the market thing, um I didn't
really understand what they were trying to

achieve with this this TV program. I knew it was
science fiction, but I didn't really understand

the the format of it until you actually watch it
the end result and you go, "Haha." And then you,

as I said, you know, you start to kind of like um
take it a bit more seriously and look at it in a

bit more kind of like, you know, the end result
is going to be good. So if you give it a lot,

then you'll get a lot back out of it. >> Far as
the stories were concerned, I think most of the

stories were actually very good. Um by the time we
got into the second series, we were more into the

swing of the thing. Uh certain points had been
made, certain the characters were established,

the whole idea was established. You have to spend
less time explaining what was going on perhaps.

Um, arguably better written. The Blue and the
Green, I think, sticks out in most people's minds

as being a particularly good story. Um, but I I
don't, as I say, you can pick out good episodes,

you can pick out bad. I don't think it's
necessarily fair to say a particular series

was better than any other. I think there would
have been a message that um young people picked up

on that um because it was about a color being a
color um and it was about um getting into fights

uh for no specific reason not knowing why
just because something is. So I think that

the blue and the green on that score would
have touched on that. I mean, in fact,

there have been psychological experiments
doing just that in America. And it may be

that that's where Roger initially got
that um storyline where um for example

when you're looking at discrimination within a
company um what happened was that each member

was given a color to wear um as they entered
the I think it must have been over a week

um of training and then exploring what
it meant to be a blue and green and how

how easily people divided simply because
of alliance and allegian agencies. So,

um that story line has its base really
in some psycho uh therapy in terms of you

know man managing um difference. >> Yeah, I
think that the doomsday men u which I think

was in the second season the blue and the
green and there was another one >> rift in

time. >> Rift in time. That's right.
They were good. They were they were

um we all sort of grew into our characters and
understood them a lot more from the first series

and understood that actually this is quite a
popular program and we should take it a bit

more seriously and get and the it was the first
time they used outside broadcast for the blue

and the green. We went we we over took a school
in um St. Margaret's Queen School I think it is

and it was and they had all the scanner vans
outside and that was the first time they done

that for certainly for kids [music] programs.
I mean definitely for kids programs because it

would cost a fortune. So it was everything
was getting a bit serious you know >> it

touched on fear um it touched on on sort of
excitement um of the individual and of of

the class it's as well um so I think the the
writing there was was extremely powerful and

um breaking out was seen not just that it
could be traumatic that it wasn't only um about

becoming this new set of uh people but it
could be traumatic and there were decisions

to be made you know do I want to be a
tomorrow person. What does it mean? Um,

and I think for young people, it's it's very
much about adolescence, isn't it really? So,

it's about um is it what is it like being
a child? Do I want to be an adult? What are

the responsibilities that um I I I will
have to take on as an adult? And I think

that whole adolescence phase is similar
to breaking out. It's not being one thing

or another. Um, and that's what Roger
I think also was trying to portray with

u with breaking out and particularly with
the blue and the green. >> They spent a lot

of money actually um for for a kids program. I
mean you'll remember it was they have different

budgets up at temps for what they're going to
spend on a kids program and to do that. Yeah.

But it was very quite big sets. I mean they
must have spent a fortune for that time on

it. It's a hell of a gamble if you think, you
know, you're going to put a kids program on

and you're doing it. You had five or six sets
darted around the studio. We were one of the

biggest, well, they had three studios at Tames and
Tington and we were in the second biggest one. We

never used to go into studio one because that
was where Opportunity Knox was done, man, Benny

Hill and all that stuff. >> Audience ones. >> Oh
yeah, they had a huge audience and you couldn't

do that in studio 2. So that was basically
the Tomorrow People studio >> at the time. I

think a lot of the children's program was sort of
talking down a little bit um to young people and

Roger Price actually just talked to uh young
people um and his scripts um he wrote scripts

that um would be enjoyed by young people and
their parents um and he didn't minimize their

understanding or intelligence and I think that's
why um and if you talk to any young person now

they can often recall teacher at school who
treated them as people because they talked

to them just as you you know I'm talking to you
they didn't have sort of talk to them as lesser

beings in that way first time I met Roger was on
the set of the tomorrow people period on a bus but

uh he was at the interview for Tyo but he
was hiding behind a door Um, for some reason,

don't know whether it had one of those
fisheye lenses or he looked in the crack,

but who did I audition? Was it Ruth Boswell Stan

Woodward? Don't know if Vic Hughes was there,
but I was led to believe it was only 5 weeks

work and not not one of the Tomorrow people,
but Roger was hidden behind the door apparently.

Like I said, I don't know what he
was doing. I never um but anyway,

and then so I met him first time I ever
Yeah. I met him face to face, so to speak,

was on a bus on a location bus in Surrey.
>> When he came into it, did you think the

writing might be on the wall for you because he
was younger >> always anyone walked in the door

[laughter] even a cleaner coming and go, "All
right, okay. What's going on here?" We were

all very paranoid. I think we wanted everyone
wanted to stay in cuz there was favorites and

there was little clicks of things going
on. Not nasty, but it was always a bit of

a fear that you're going to be booted out, you
know. And when Dean came in, it was like, "Oh,

they're getting another tomorrow person." You
know, I say, "Here we go again. We just got rid

of two. Then we're getting one, then there's
three, then there's four. Oh, here's another

one." And we'd shake his hand. And he was very
nice. And um that was it really. And we got on

>> as an actor. Then I was saying well for
all the characters really you didn't get

to learn much about their background
their family maybe except for Taiso

um and that would um would have created a richness
because there's still um um misunderstandings say

about travelers in now as we stand um we had
Mako who you know and we could have looked

then at the Japanese culture >> but he wasn't
your gypsy okay I' I've got I must say that

>> just in the same way as
the young people excited by

um the blue and the g green or the
living skins um I think could tell that

um man from Emily was just it was it was just
odd um but full marks were to Roger for trying

something way out especially when you've got
something that's successful but it it didn't

it didn't work. >> Yeah. Yeah. I we all knew it
was a bit farical because of all the mama and you

know that woman who I think she was married
to David Nixon the magician the mama I can't

remember her name >> and Peter Davidson Sandra
Dickinson and it was a bit far but I think they

were trying on that kind of like comedy route
and it failed miserably but it was great fun

to do I mean I enjoyed dressing up as a cowboy
and pulling silly faces and you know basically

mucking around having a lark and not having to
save the planet although they did try and inject

a bit into that and it sort of got kind of like
it can't be serious to take this serious. So,

>> and as I recall it, um the characters
themselves didn't have much input in the

story and that's that's a secret cuz the
series um was successful because of the

main characters and it's hard to sort of then
switch allegiances. >> I never felt that any

series was particularly better than another. Uh
there were one or two cringingly bad stories. Um,

my main criticism from day one was
the lack of care taken over special

effects. And I I think that let the
program down then. Um, it's it's um

easy to watch it now uh 25 years later and say
ah but they didn't know how to do it in those

days. That's not true. If a bit more care had
been taken over and a little bit more money,

the special effects could have
been much more effective. >> Well,

in those days they had scouts.
It's not so often that happens now,

but temps TV had a scout called Roger Price
who had written a show and he was looking for

a group to appear in his new series called The
Tomorrow People. Um, and we were doing a cabaret

for Lady Ratlings at the Civic Theater Bow,
which is no more sadly. Um, and uh, he saw us

there and literally came backstage after we'd
performed and um, within a week we were signed

up in Temp's television doing the series. It
happened that fast. >> Oh, absolutely. It was

his it was his launch and um then it went into
basically Mike Holloway and the Tomorrow People,

you know, and it and it was because he was
very popular with with the young girls and

he was in that pop group. I mean, it was very
gritty stuff. It was good. It was very earthy

and also I was breaking out or my character
was breaking out. So, it was um very um very

serious part of the um of the show because
obviously when a tomorrow person breaks out,

he's not having a very good time as you know.
[laughter] >> It's a shame we never saw you

break out. One of very few we didn't
see. >> That's right. It was done very

subtly in actual fact with my character.
Why? You'll have to ask Roger Price that

I don't know. >> It was never written.
I don't think it was intended that way

that he he was seen to be suffering as
as a tomorrow person breaking out but

he arrived as a tomorrow person as opposed to
seeing the transition which was quite unusual

towards the end the last series definitely
they didn't have really any interest in

the character at all. I mean that's
painfully obvious. I just basically

ended up kind of like me and Tyo go off
and then it all like reverts to Mike Mike

Holloway or Mike Bell and so you could see
it was being guided towards him more. Yes,

it had to happen because you can't have
two people so similar. Um and because I

was a musician as well as an actor um it was
befitting of the roles that were coming along.

Hence um previous discussion with you uh
Richard about um the hearts of sgo because

obviously I played all the guitar and the
drums and the percussion on those particular

things and therefore that ability was used
in the tomorrow people. I got dropped like

um a brick. I was going to say something
else but I got I got dropped and you know

when you've been dropped is when you make a
phone call and they say sorry we can't talk

to you. Ah hello Nick. No right anyone.
So yeah, I knew very well I was booted

up. We sort of I think it ended between
agents and management of mine um quite

nastily because I I was represented by Robert
Stigwood's old partner who was quite a big shot

and he knew it was a big shot and he didn't
want people like Temp's television, you know,

keeping his prodigy um dangling
on. So he just said, you know,

I told them to sod off Peter. He
said to me, I went, "Nice one,

David. [laughter] Oh, I wanted to do another
one. >> Yes, I was very very involved in it

because we were not uh really informed that Peter
was not going to be in it. Whether there was a

little moral cowardice on on somebody's part, but
we were not told that PBC was really not going

to be in it. uh and he came to the rehearsal
for the for that series the the first one and

uh I I I met him outside and and brought him in
and we even now I don't really quite understand

you know because it was pretty brutal
I think really the way in which it was

done if it was possible that he was not going
to be in it he should have been told you know

quite a considerable time before but nobody we
could never find out really And I think it was

Mike and PBC. They couldn't have the two boys of
more or less the same age and the same type. And

um Mike was was certainly going to be in that
series, but it was not a particularly happy

episode. I don't really like to talk about
it too much. Either one of me or Dean had to

go. Maybe it was a bit unwise getting
rid of both of us at the same time and

not explaining it. That was a bit dafted. I
mean, they should have had it sit for half

an episode. maybe like standing there saying
right come on Tito let's go off and save that

planet see you later John see you guys it's
been a gas you know something a bit cool but

let's say you know go out of a spanner and not
come back it's a bit bit east enders isn't it

you know >> I think these are questions if
you want the honest answer you've got to ask

uh the producers um I think again I'd make
the same comment um they weren't trained

actors uh and or certainly PVC wasn't I'm not
sure about Tyson. And I think as they grew older,

um it became more difficult for them to get
away with uh perhaps not playing at the same

level as some of the other actors. Um and
I suppose quite simply in Peter's case,

he grew up and there was a need to bring in
somebody younger again that children could

identify and grow up with. Uh I I managed to stay
fairly static, so that wasn't really a problem.

Tim was fairly static. That wasn't a problem.
Um, but if you if you start off in the show,

I don't know how old he was at the time, but
if you start off as a child and you grow into

an adolescent, it's probably time to bring in
another. >> I don't think I was pissed off. >> So,

you'd have gone back. >> I was doing other things.
Um, no. No. Well, actually, no. I would No,

I would never. No, I wouldn't have done
another series. Well, after I'd come out,

seen seen what then go. No. Well, of course, the
the real problem with the tomorrow people was um

the fact that every child on earth potentially
was going to be a tomorrow person. Now,

if you're only going to do 13 episodes, you don't
have to explain any further. But when you suddenly

find you're on to episode 47 or whatever it
is, and uh there are no more tomorrow people,

um it becomes more difficult. So, I think that
partly answers one of your earlier questions about

why were certain characters written out and others
brought in and numbers enlarged and reduced.

too many characters, it becomes difficult to
cope with. When you got seven tomorrow people,

you've got to find things for them all to do,
and it's very difficult to keep the plot going.

Um, on the other hand, you've got to bring in new
people to carry on or or to to fulfill people's

expectations that there are going to be dozens of
tomorrow people or indeed hundreds of thousands.

Um, so it needed some sort of turnover.
Uh, seven would have been too big. Um,

five was probably about right. Um, I don't think
it mattered if it fluctuated. That was fine. We

certainly didn't get any complaints
from people. Um, had we done more,

it may have grown a little, but as as I've
explained and as you can probably understand,

m more than about seven, even seven is
difficult to cope with. There's too much

going on, too many plots, too complicated. In
fact, they they were talking about getting me

back in for like three or four episodes or
something like that on the next season. But

I was a bit too grand then. I had my recording
deal going. I was up at Air Studios going "Oh

I'm going to be famous." I thought and so them
I don't need the tomorrow people there has been

but they didn't realize it's I can't sing. I
was standing there singing away and the red

light went off above the control desk and this
engineer got up. It was the engineer I mean and

there was a tape standing there and he got up
and walked out and the producer was sitting

there with a paper and he got up and walked
out. I was like going am I doing something

wrong or can't I sing? Why don't someone tell
me? And they said look you really can't sing.

I said well thanks. I've been up there for 3
months wobbling away doing Imagine, Switchback,

all these other weird songs. I was doing a
Bay City Roller song. >> You see the interior

politics. It was also, don't forget, not only
Roger, but there was there were was producers and

and you know, other people who had different
ideas and perhaps maybe one of the characters

had only a certain shelf life. no matter
how good they might have been, you know,

you could only do so many things with them and
then they would have to get on to something

else. And and a lot of the the kids, a lot I
mean there's a lot of artists in that show. I

mean there was almost every child actor of any
kind was in that show at one time or another

and many of them became very famous and but
they they only could last for you know for a

certain length of time and and I don't think
there was anything more significant to it than

that really >> I think you're right. I think
he was a a replacement for PVC and I think

um probably he became a replacement because
Roger uh was involved in some of the other

programs that Michael Holloway was
in and I think Roger felt that Mike

um could contribute something to the
program. Um and the timing was probably

right. He probably felt it's time for
Peter's character to drift away because

he's now growing up. Um, and having established
a closer relationship with Mike through the other

programs he was in, he probably thought he
was the obvious replacement. So, I think yes,

he was quite clearly a replacement.
I mean, obviously at that age,

you're not aware of the marketing strategies
that go behind things. But looking back,

that was quite obvious because the group
were successful. We had two hit records. Um,

we had the albums. We had our own series. And I
guess Roger felt it was the natural transition

to develop a character within the Tomorrow
people to cash in on that popularity. So I don't

doubt that was one of the main reasons.
But uh hopefully I had a little something

to offer as well. Who knows? But yeah, he
was popular and you you did understand he

was a good-looking bloke and he had a cocknney
charm with him. Um but he couldn't act at that

time. I didn't think I thought you know he
was pretty poor show as far as kind of like

deliverance and but you look at him now. I
mean, he's in Joseph and he's doing really

well and he's stayed at it and he did take it
seriously and and which is great for him. So,

there was no kind of like nasties and he also came
around to my house and played um after my band

decided not to go on stage cuz we actually
couldn't play and Mark Lester, our lead singer,

decided not to go on. >> Mark Lester
was your lead singer. >> Well, he was,

but only because we got him in because he was
wellknown. But then we didn't realize he couldn't

actually sing at all and then bottled out about 3
seconds before we were meant to go on stage. So,

no one went on stage. a guitarist, a drummer.
I was the drummer and we had all this equipment

in the garden and it was my birthday. So, um
Mike said, "Oh," and the boys from Flintlock

were there and Mike said, "Oh, do you mind if we
ever go then if you don't want to use it?" >> And

they could play. >> Oh, yeah. [laughter]
I mean, it was like, "Hm, all right. So,

you can play, but we got the equipment."
And the thing was he was playing so loud.

He had all this jail house rock playing. My
mother went unplugged it and all you could

hear was Mike going, "What's happening?" >>
It's always difficult that kind of a wave.

I don't think anyone can ever answer how and
why it affects you. You just go with it best

way you can. Um I had a very strict
upbringing as a child anyway. Um so

um I had a very good family and I was able to keep
feet very firmly on the ground and never once lost

sight of the overall perspective. I
was taught that there's a very big

difference and that is that to be successful
is what you aim for. Famous is a bad word.

I was taught that equation and basically
I live by that. So for me it was the work

that affected me more than I mean the
edgulation was all part of it. >> I was

stalked shot in the back. Um I was going
around thinking I was John Lennin for a

while. >> The fan club was started by somebody
who worked for IPC magazines. Um and I think

they felt it was uh worth developing
because it created interest in us and

they could then put our photographs in their
teen magazines and so on. Um, so as I say,

it was organized by by an employee of APC. Um,
and I think really because the character of John

stuck throughout the series. Um, and nobody
else quite did. Um, it did tend to become a

fan club for just Nick Young PVC. But in fact,
in the end, I certainly had my own fan club.

And I'm pretty sure that Peter had his own
fan club as well because there was a Nick

Young newsletter and competitions and all
that sort of thing. Well, I remember I had

like PVC fan club badges and little logos and
things like that which I I bring in sometimes,

but I've never shown anyone. They've seen some
posters here. I've got they laugh their heads

off. >> I have bags full of it. I I didn't
really throw away the fan mail. Yes. I used

to get masses of it. Extraordinary. And often it
would be with requests to uh say or do something

with one of the other characters. Can you ask
Elizabeth to do this or can you ask Sammy to do

that or what you know they would try
to tie me up with with but often Oh

yes I got masses of it. I was asked
to open this school fate. Um, well,

a couple of them I did and there was there
was another actor who I think it was Marty

Feltman actually and we both went along
to this school fate. And I just remember

all these mothers of these children being
really angry because um I didn't look like I

did on the screen. Oh, you you you you're
much smaller than you look on the screen,

but they were sort of quite angry with me about
it. And um the ch you know, the children were

were really quite sweet and uh and I did used to
get recognized and it it was I suppose it was a

it's quite a buzz really. Yeah. >> And where I
lived in Elang, there was a girl school around

the corner. I couldn't go out between certain
hours, you know, which a lot of people say you

must be mad, but it does when you get your hair
pulled like a girly. No, when you get your hair

pulled and and I've had buttons ripped off and all
that, that's that's but that was just a couple of

days ago with my wife who sat in the back here.
>> Well, I think I said this earlier on that it

it it didn't really deteriorate. It would just if
you know some of the scripts were not good enough

and you say you had two scripts in a row that
were not good it and then a third one that was

good you know it it it would come back again.
It was still they were still quite capable

of of doing good stuff. >> By then we should have
known exactly what we were doing. The the stories

themselves were okay. Uh the the costumes in
the final episode were just appalling. They

were laughable. And again I was embarrassed
to be associated with it. >> God. Yeah. I

think that's what did it. Um, I didn't much
appreciate the earlier ones where they had

uh the the puppets in the uh
in the spaceship. I can't even

remember which one it was called now,
the one with the mother ship in it. Um,

where there some rather silly puppetry.
Um, but you have to sit there and not

grin and bear it. Um, otherwise
it gives the game away. You know,

say the lines with conviction and hope that
hope that others will believe it. >> Didn't

they look as if they were made out of fairy
washing up liquid things? And don't try this

at home unless mommy says you can use the
scissors. Serious drug problem attempts.

I'm not coming back to that. Not with
the glove puppet love. I like special

effects. >> Nigel Rose wore a skirt, didn't
he? >> That's when I stopped watching. I think

>> yes. I think we towards the end
as well. I think T's television

um itself uh didn't really nurture the program as
perhaps it did at the very beginning. Um, we also,

um, there were some new writers introduced to
the series. Um, and, um, I I seem to remember

that there was quite a bit of, um, an comedy
coming into the show. >> A long story. Um,

we knew that there were we knew that there were
there were questions about it because of the

technical side of it. It used to tie up too
much time in the studio and they always wanted

uh you know it would tie up all the technical
side of the studio and they would they wanted

it I think the last director wanted two
days and they wouldn't give it to him.

Now whether that was just a ploy because
of course this was just the strike the

famous strike was on and of course cuts
had to be made and and money had to be

saved and it was a question of whether
if they could have got technically uh

this program in on one day they would probably
have allowed it to go on. >> Yes. I I think

there's a bit of a myth about this 79 strike. As
far as I understand it wasn't a strike that put

the guy bos on the series. Uh the last series
was always going to be a short series or if

it was going to get made at all. Um Roger Price
simply ran out of stories. He had written 66 of

the 70. The four he let somebody else write
were uh comparatively rather dull. Um and I

just don't think he had any more ideas. I
offered up I wrote some stories and offered

them up to him. But I think by then he'd he
had lost confidence in the idea of anybody

else writing them because uh he he felt I
think the others had not been a success.

Um I think TMS were prepared to spend money
on doing another half dozen. I don't think

Roger had any more ideas beyond that. I think
that's why I don't think it was anything to do

with the strike. I never got that impression
at the time. Tomorrow people was um bedeled by

strikes from day one. And I would say out of the
70 we made probably 45 or 50 of the episodes were

affected by industrial action of some sort or an
inability to finish for whatever reason. >> Um

I can't remember how I heard it must
have been through Roger Price. I mean

um um if I if I can recall we after each
um series really you were never quite

sure whether there'd be another and I think
acting is such is the profession is such that

um the expectation is that a job will come to
an end. No, I was always fond of the program.

I I never wanted to leave it. I never wanted to
see it destroyed or or ended or anything. Um I

was aware that it was damaging or or or or um
affecting my acting career because other work got

thinner. Um and people just didn't understand what
have you been doing. I've been doing the tomorrow

people. They'd never heard of it. Adult directors
wouldn't have done. >> But we were not told. We

were not told. You see, we had the news series. We
had the scripts. We were told that it was going to

go on and then we would find that it wasn't
going to go on and then we would find it was

was on again back and forth. It was a very very
difficult time. And then I just suddenly got a

phone call a few weeks before we were due to
start to say it wasn't going to be done. And

then the door slammed in our face. We weren't
even said they didn't even say thank you. And

it was as if the program had never existed.
It was extraordinary what happened. >> I as

I said I can only say I was not under the
impression it was canceled. I was told we

were going to do one more series and it
would be a short series was a decision

I think taken fairly late in the day. Um I
think I think there were only those number

of stories available or those number of episodes
available. >> Yes, it could be still going today.

I mean maybe not because you would have had
then to bring in other writers as we we've

discussed because nobody could have kept
it going that long but I think it could

have gone for a considerable time uh when
when they chopped it and and as I say the

this the real reason I think was combination
financial and emotional and you know there were

many many reasons why why it was canceled
but it wasn't a very nice way of doing it.

>> The very next thing I did was a a a BBC
uh schools program which funny enough was

set in a science fiction environment. I cannot
remember the name of it and I'm not sure I've

ever even seen it but four or five episodes
and that was set uh somewhere in the future

and I was in space age costume again and it
just seemed like home from home. Um other

things I did in the year following I think were
SOS Titanic which was the I played an American

Other things I did in the year following
were the film SOS Titanic, which again

gets reruns on television fairly frequently. I
played a young American in that. Um I did a series

called Blood Money for the BBC. Um and then I
think the following year I did one called Kesler,

which again gets reruns on UK Gold and
various other channels. But it was quiet

after the Tomorrow People because it came
to an end and there I was looking for work

as any actor might and you'd meet directors
and producers fine what have you been up to

and you'd tell them the Tomorrow People of
course because they would never have seen

it because it was a children's series
and to talk about credits from seven or

eight years previously was not terribly relevant.
So it was quite difficult the year following it

was a bit patchy. >> Filmwise I was in the Stud.
>> I did uh >> What were you doing in The Stud?

I was um Pierre um a boyfriend of a bloke that
was meant to look like Salvador Darling. I was

this camp kind of like uh this this this
camp actor and the sad thing was I had one

line in it. Just one line and I forgot it. I just
forgot my line. There's a story behind the reason

I forgot the line but I want to tell you but
I forgot my one line. I I may go back into

acting when when I retire from from Brent
here. Um but I think that I I've grown and

um I've expanded in terms of my skills.
Um I'm not sure whether I'd go front of

camera again. I'd certainly want to work
writing or work as I've said before in

sort of the drama therapy side of my work.
>> 1981 it was a a conscious decision. and

I started an agency with a partner uh
to specializing in representing actors

for television commercials. Um and my thinking
behind that was that this would not interfere

with my acting career. Uh and indeed it didn't
for some time. But eventually one of the last

things I did for BBC Shakespeare series it took
eight weeks to make and I simply couldn't afford

to devote 8 weeks anymore when I had a business
that was uh flourishing. So uh it slowly faded

away really. It sometimes becomes because I do
something different now and lighting that by a

theater is quite frustrating for me because
we do everything we do is that's it once it's

the curtain goes up tonight and down tonight
that's it that performance is over there'll be

another one tomorrow but it might be different
slightly but that one thing is never going to

with film once you do it it's always there
film and television it's always there like

now with tomorrow people you can watch it
back and it's great I prefer the television

side of it >> no I went I went back into the
theater I did quite a few theater things and

and quite a few more television shows.
And then uh I was sort of semi-retired

really when Fetty uh my partner got the
the idea for this children's theater.

Now this was built for children. You
see it originally was for children

and he wanted me to help with it and I was
reluctant at first and didn't really want

to particularly but I did. I came into
it and I do the drama for the children,

appear in the pantomime and do the, you know,
do the chairman in the oldtime musical and now

the theater's taking off in its own right, not
only as a children's theater, although we do

have fair financial problems because we're doing
it ourselves. We're hoping to get grant council

grants and things like that, but so far not
because it's a lovely idea and it's a beautiful

theater and it should continue and and not be
destroyed. I think what they should do is it will

always have a cult status. That is absolutely
undoubtable. Um that is a fact. I do feel

however that if they could just bring back the
nucleus of that original Tomorrow People format

with the new technology that we've got now,
then it could go on and on infinitum. >> Yes,

I keep in touch with Nick who is my agent and
I keep in touch with Mike of course who's a

great charm of mine. PBC I very very rarely see
Elizabeth I have seen occasionally and and but

I keep in touch certainly in my heart with all
of them you know because they are like a family

really to me it was a good series I enjoyed
the work that I did on on the program and I

enjoyed the pe the cast cuz sometimes
that can be a nightmare I suppose if

um you're actually not working well
with your colleagues and I think

um we work together quite Well, it's nostalgia.
I think that's what it is, [music] you know,

like a a major part of um a major part of
people's life. [music] It never really went away,

you know. Um there's always been interest
there. I think uh surprise is is the the main

reaction to [music] quite how popular it still
is because it it it was a fascinating program

way ahead of its time and kids don't
[music] have anything as imaginative

or quite as imaginative. There have been some
good programs and there still are but nothing

that [music] takes their takes the whole
imagination. Kids who love to use their

imagination [music] the way they grow
and that program helps them to do that.

[music] [singing] [music] Heat.
[music] Heat. [music] [music]

>> [music] >>

And that brings us to the end of this recording.
But as they used to say at the end of science

fiction films, the end or is it in another
30 years there may be the tomorrow people the

pension years or something like that. Who knows?
Anyway, till then from all of us, good night.

Once again, don't forget to switch
off your set, will you? Good night.

One of the people who was missing in
1997 was Nigel Rhodess. But finally

he was found and Jackie Clark
interviewed him for an update.

[music] >> Hello Nigel. >> Hello
Jackie. >> Um it's been sort of

many years since you've had sort of
things to do with the fan base. Yeah.

What's it like after so long to suddenly
discover that there's so much going on? >> Um,

it's a real surprise actually. I didn't know I
didn't know there was there was such an interest

in it. I mean, I know at the time it was quite a
cult program and it was like the ITV's equivalent

of Doctor Who and so on and so forth, but
after so long I didn't realize that that

there was that much interest in it and
how worldwide it is. I mean there's so

many I mean all thanks to you. We've got
hits on our site from from my band site

from yours and most of the international
ones are yours all all to do with tomorrow

people. So it's yeah it's crazy. >> Obviously
you're in the people for quite a few years.

How did you originally get into acting?
>> My family's quite a theatrical family

anyway. Um my sister's a ballet dancer.
Dad was a stand-up comedian during the

war sort of thing. used to do things in
Burma and >> uh mom made costumes. So,

it was just an inevitable thing that I I'd
probably end up at stage school cuz the whole

family were involved in it anyway. And uh I was
quite an extrovert. >> Yes. >> As a child. So,

they thought, "Right, stick him in stage school
and see where it goes." So, >> what stage

school did you go to? I went to a a stage called
Associated Arts which was in uh the Ridgeway in

Wimbledon. >> And it was just
a house basically that this

um amazing mad woman called Lety
Littlewood had decided she wanted to

um it was primarily uh a dance school but it
had acting as well and I was not I am not a

good dancer and I never like dancing at all.
My sister was totally the other way. She was

ballet mad and dance mad and that's that's
what she does and she still does it now.

>> And uh but I was totally the other way.
I I liked acting and and so on and so forth.

But >> yeah, I had to do a lot of ballet for a lot
of time. A lot of ballet modern tap on >> I can't

quite imagine you doing that. >> Exactly. I had
two left feet. I couldn't do it to save my life,

but you know, I still had to carry on doing it. So
the world's worst dancer. What was the very first

acting job you got? >> The first acting job I
did, the first television I did was um uh a series

called Follow That Dog, which was for Southern
TV with um actually a lot of Star Wars. Now,

sort of like in hindsight, I I watch films and
especially like old British comedies and stuff

and realize how many people I actually work with.
Yeah. >> On different various things. I'll be

like, "Oh my god, yeah, I work with him." But um
that was like Norman Rossington and Paty Roland

who used to do loads of the carry-on films and
stuff like this. And uh but yeah, that was the

first thing I did. And I had to go off and uh had
a chaperone and everything. Not my mom. My mom

didn't take me on that one. And I was like eight,
I think, nine or something. Quite young. >> Scary

stuff. Yeah, it was. I went up to uh we were
on Ssbury um near Ssbury for like 3 4 months.

So it was quite weird to be away from from my
mom and dad and stuff doing all this. >> So

it makes you grow up really quickly I must admit.
>> Yeah, I bet it did. >> Yeah, it does. It does.

>> And when you got the role of the 12 people
on that first day and you walked on the set,

what was it like to >> Yeah, that was
really cool. Um well, like I said,

I was a fan of it anyway. I I really give it's
my favorite program. So just to get there and

just see just see everyone there. Um I was
a bit in awe. I didn't really want to you

know you sort of just shuffle in with your mom
just stand there like but uh yeah Mike Holway

he's over there. But um like I say, Philillip
was the one. Philip was the one who took me in

and and took me around and introduced me to
everyone and you know, sort of like he was

just so he was just so genuine. He just put
me at ease and >> by the first day I had no

worries at all. I wasn't I wasn't, you know,
sort of uh I wasn't in awe anymore. I just,

you know, I was just thinking, right,
okay, I'm come here to do this and work

with them and no, it's brilliant, brilliant
stuff. >> But you mentioned your mom a lot.

I mean, >> yeah, my mom was chaperoning me.
Yeah, my mom chaperoned me throughout the

whole of the Tomorrow People and uh throughout
throughout most of of the things I was doing

at the time. >> How did she find it sort
of coming into the TV studio? >> She used

to take it in her stride really. I must admit
she was uh she was quite a strong woman. So,

uh, I was well looked after, let's put it that
way. And every but everyone, you know, respected

my mom and and if she thought there was something
that wasn't right or maybe I was going to be in

danger or something looked like it wasn't quite
as it should be, she would always, you know,

she'd be she'd be firm. She wouldn't be rude,
but she'd just go and say, "Is this going to

be all right? Is it going to be all right here?"
And >> and everyone was was cool with her. They

they loved her, especially Roger. Actually, Roger
was a great fan of my mom because uh she was so

straightforward and Roger was so
straightforward as well. You know, you

call a spade a spade. >> What was he like to work
with? >> He was brilliant. Um I had a great time

with Roger. He was uh he was he's a very caring
man and uh he wouldn't he wouldn't let anything

you know if there was something wrong he'd sort
it out immediately. Whoever whatever parties

there were that were what in dispute or whatever
he'd bring everyone in and he'd get it all sorted

out and yeah he was a very diplomatic man when
when you were working with him. Um, but yeah,

he and he got on with my mom absolutely
famously. He used to come around to my

house and stuff and trash the sofa. You've
never seen it. You've never seen anyone sit

on a sofa like Roger Price. He'd get to the
side of the sofa and then just basically leap

so that you know his whole body will be up
here and then he'd land like 3 foot onto

the sofa. My mom was like going to have to get a
new sofa. Roger keeps coming around. But he did.

He was so he was so enthusiastic about things. So
that's >> the way he sat on the sofa was the whole

way he treated life. You know, he was always
putting his hand through his hair and getting

really really animated about things. He was so
passionate about about everything. >> Do you

think tomorrow people was really important
to him? >> Yes, I think so. Definitely,

without a doubt. I think I think his work
was always important to him cuz um I think

Roger always had something to say. But that
wasn't the only program you worked on. >> No,

no. I did another thing with him
called uh uh Well, he did You Must

Be Joking with Mike Holay and then he did
another one called You Can't Be Serious,

which was the new clutch of whatever Tony
whatever we were at the time. So, yeah,

monsters. Yeah, basically. [laughter] So, uh,
yeah. So, that was that was another sort of

>> bring a star in an interview and do sketches
with him and so and so. >> Was Dean Lawrence

in that one? >> Dean Lawrence wasn't No, Dean
Lawrence wasn't in that. I did a thing called

Westway for um >> for HTV and uh it was set in a
massive house up in uh Chipping Sodbury. I still

can always remember it cuz it was like Sbury,
[laughter] you know, when you were a kid. I was

like swearing. But um yeah, and we did a we did a
thing up there and Dean was in that and that was

before I did the Tomorrow People. >> So I
knew he was a Tomorrow Person cuz I used

to be a fan of it. >> Now I hear that your
knees are quite famous. Can you tell us about

that? >> Knees. Yeah. Um well, when when I
did the audition for the Tomorrow People,

um it was Vic Hughes and Roger Price. And
I'd heard that I was meant to be Scottish,

but I didn't realize I was going to have to wear a
kill at the time until I went to the audition. And

uh they said, "Well, have you got, you
know, sort any problems in wearing a

kill?" And I'm like, "You know, I typical
actors miners. I just want the job." Do

you know what I mean? No, I don't care. I
ride a horse naked if you want. You know,

so I just thought, "Right, here we go." Took my
trousers up, went, "There you go. Nice." See,

I know I'm going to have to show them. They're
all right. They're okay. and they found this

very amusing apparently and uh was uh a
slight basis for me actually getting the

part in the first place which is cool. So yes, the
legendary knees are still there now fortunately.

>> And when you sort of you got the part as Andrew
Forbes and you knew he was Scottish as you said,

did you have any sort of input in the way you
played Andrew or the character or did that

come from the director? >> I didn't have a lot
of I mean as as you know because you probably

watched it. I didn't have a lot of input on
a a Scottish accent really much to my friends

um uh ridicule they like where's
the Scottish accent then but I was

told I was meant to be an educated Scott
now most educated Scots haven't got an

accent anyway so uh that was my alibi anyway
and I said well you know it occasionally popped

out >> here and there but uh not very often but
>> um as as regards to to input on the part. Um,

not really because we had, you know, our
our director, especially Vic Hughes. He was

a bit of a taskmaster. So, you just really
did what he said really cuz he he he could

get quite stressed. >> Yeah. [laughter] >>
Indeed. So, you'd be like, and you know,

I was only I was so young. I was only 11, 12.
And that's that's your mentality as an actor.

You just, you know, you you do what you do.
Unless you're an A-list actor like Pacina or

something and then you you've got C lunch to
do whatever you want to do with it. >> But no,

being a little kid, I was just pleased to be
there. >> Pleased to be there and working.

So, >> but how did you feel? I mean, you'd
got the part. Yeah. >> Had you sort of been

a fan of the show? Did you know anything about it
before? >> Yeah. Yeah, I knew loads about it. I'd

um I'd been a fan of it as a kid anyway. And
uh like I was saying to you, I had the the

yellow looking um I'm a person. I'm a Tomorrow
person with four of them on it or something. And

uh >> so I'd had that on my satchel. That's how
long ago it was. >> Uh before I'd even got the

audition for the Tomorrow. >> So I was Yeah, I
was really pleased. It was like, you know, it

was my favorite program and I was actually going
to be in it and meet everyone and it was very

good. Very good time. >> How did all your
friends >> deal with you getting the pub? Well,

cuz I'd done cuz I've been doing quite a lot of
television anyway. I'd done I'd done lead parts in

things. So, they were all they were all quite used
to it by then, but this probably was the highest

profile thing that I'd done and probably ever did
at that point. And uh so yeah, they were all a bit

takenback by what was going on, but they just used
to take it in their stride when we used to go on

the bus. But I was used to [laughter] I always
used to be undercover if people come out and go,

"You're on the tomorrow people." I'm like, "No,

no, it's not me. It's not me. It must be must be
someone who looks like me." And they were like,

"No, what are you telling them? What
are you telling them?" I'm like, "No,

I'm all right for that. Thank you very much. Let's
just go and do whatever we're going to do." No, I

didn't really I don't fame's a bit weird. I didn't
I wasn't really in it for that. Even though I was

in the tomorrow people and so on and so forth, the
the actual attention I found quite strange. So I

just used to unless it was a really nice
looking girl of course and then maybe I

would tell them >> actually I was in it. >>
Yes. >> You mentioned other things you were

in. Weren't you in ripping yarns? And >> I was
in ripping yarns. Yeah. With Michael Paying.

That was really that was uh that was another
buzz for me because I was a real Monty Python

fan anyway. So to actually actually work with
with one of the cast uh was really good. Well,

there was there was two of the cast because
Michael Palin wrote it with Terry Jones.

So Terry Jones was down there as well. So
I got to meet two of them and I was like

yeah and it was uh great fun. Michael
Palin is as nice as he looks on on all

these documentaries and stuff. He is just
such a genuine really really nice man and

uh yeah I love working with him. He's brilliant.
>> What about the other plumber people actors

you know Nick and Elizabeth? >> Yeah.
Oh um >> do you get on all right with

them? >> Yeah I get on fine with them. It was
so nice to see you know when I came to your

first convention it was uh like Nick who who
found the found the advert in the first place said

you've got to go. And I was like, "Yeah, yeah, I
have got to go." And it was uh it was very strange

actually. It was like I hadn't actually been away
at all. No, >> everyone just came up. It wasn't it

wasn't any big surprise. It was just like, "Oh,
right. How you doing?" Especially Phil. I mean,

>> it was just so nice to see him. >> I remember
that moment when I walked you over to the room.

>> Oh, God bless you. >> And he was standing
outside and it was >> Yeah. Oh, I had to give him

a hug. I was so glad to see him. It was uh he's
you know he's he's such he was such a colorful

character. >> Yeah. >> And at that time you know
I was only 11 12 or whatever >> and a a person

like that tends to burn into your burn into your
memory very you know very greatly out of any of

the cast. I think >> Phil was the one who I loved
and and remembered the most of all his little

mad little mad songs and stuff. He used to sing
and yeah, he was crazy off his head. >> Peter

talks about practical jokes, did you? >> Oh, he
was the mur most murderous practical joker ever.

And he used to get everyone giggling and that was
that's what used to drive Vic Hughes mad. used to

drive me insane cuz we'd be giggling like man all
down to Phil usually off off set as well. He'd be

like like and everyone could see him. You're
like that I'm not even looking over there at

the moment cuz I know he's doing something
mad. So, uh yeah, he was he was a brilliant

practical joker. What was it like to work with
um Misako Koba who was quiet? [laughter] >> Yeah,

Misako was uh Yeah, [snorts] she was well I can't
I can't really sort of I couldn't understand her

thing. >> I don't think many of the bands could
either. >> No, but she did have a heart of gold.

I must admit she was she she was a lovely girl
but >> you know it was it used to amaze me that

she I'm not I'm not saying this in a bad way, but
because her English was as bad as it was and all

power to her, she did try and surmount some
massive [laughter] >> massive obstacles. Um,

but it it did used to amaze me how she got
the part in the first place cuz you know,

you couldn't even when she was
talking to you offset, you were

like, >> "What? [laughter] >> I don't know."
>> Well, I know she's out there and >> Yeah,

she is out there and I hope she I
hope she gets in contact actually cuz

I'd love to see her. >> Um, so other than
the acting, >> yeah, >> I know you're in a

band. >> Yeah. >> Is is that what you do now?
Is in music your >> No, I wish. No, I've got

I've got to quote a normal job, but um yeah, the
band is what I want to do basically really. >> So,

do you do gigging? What's >> Oh, yeah. We do
we do quite a few gigs here and there. Do a lot

uh up in town and uh and things are getting
better. We're we're extending out and

uh we've just done a video which is very
amusing indeed. But no, things are things are

moving forward with the band, I'm glad to say. >>
That's really good. >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's quite

a random collection of people. So, uh it's quite
hard to keep check on them [laughter] cuz they are

uh rather bohemian, shall we say. But uh no,
it's it's it's good fun. And like I say, it's

something that I didn't ever think I'd be doing.
And just like this, really? I mean, >> neither of

us thought we >> Exactly. It's uh it's the the
same sort of thing. It's It's something I've

always loved, >> but something I never
ever thought I'd be able to to >> How

did you get into playing the guitar? >> Um,
I just I basically started playing guitar

um cuz I got bored with playing a tennis
racket really and I just thought, "Right,

come on then. For God's sake, let's do
something." But I started really late.

I started playing guitar when I was about 20
or so, which is quite late for a guitarist.

So that's why it's taken me so long to get a
band together. But um yeah, I love it. I love

it. I must know. >> And when you played
Andrew, you had this sort of short,

sleek hair. >> I did have What happened to
the hair? >> Yeah, I know. I know. The hair

sort of went a bit unruly when I was uh when
I was young when I was about I don't know 16,

17, it sort of started to go and then just
went I don't know. I don't know. I don't

know what happened. I just decided I'll tell
you what it was and I've just thought about

this. Robin of Sherwood. You remember Robin
of Sherwood? I watched that and I thought I

want hair like Robin and Sherwood. So
that was it. I just started growing it

and the rest is whatever it is. >> Ideal for
the band. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. There's

only two of us with long hair. So it's
uh it's not too too bad. We don't look

like a thrash metal band or anything. So yeah,
it's good. >> I mean of all the stories that

you were in. Yeah. >> What do you have sort
of fond memories? any particular ones that

you >> I think probably my f I mean bearing
in mind the only time I've seen these since

since they were actually aired was when
I came and did the the DVD. I'd never

seen them since then. So it was just like
such a shock. But having watched them,

my my fondest memories were um the
first one when I'm coming out and

I'm up on the castle making all the mad
Scotsman appear downstairs and yeah,

that was a real good one cuz it was so
the moment I saw it, I thought, God,

it was so cold that day. It was unbelievable.
I've got this kilt on it. >> And the wind was

blowing on that >> freezing. But uh yeah, it was
it was good fun. I believe that was Leath tower

in >> Yeah, I do believe so. Yeah, it was. Yeah.
>> Was the mist real or was that put on? >> No,

no, we had a bit of uh we had a bit of ingenuity
going on there with the old dry ice and stuff.

Yeah. But uh no, that was that was a good one.
Plus, I was just buzzing just to be in the be

in it and doing my first episode. And >> you
mentioned to me there was some problem with the

Loch Ness Monster. >> Loch Ness Monster. Yes.
Yes. That sunk. But you see that was before

computer graphics. See, they wouldn't have
had any problem now. They had done the full

thing. But no, we had this massive fiberglass uh
Loch Ness monster thing. Just one hump and the

neck. >> So, how massive is massive? >> Well, I I
don't know. I would say it was probably about six,

seven foot long by about >> eight, you
know, big enough to big enough to see from

the water. >> Yeah. >> So, it was like a >> It
looked like a coracal. You know the Irish boats?

The Irish boats looked like a coracal inside.
So this diver was meant to take them out there

>> and then sit in the middle of this lake
with this bloody uh Loch Ness monster head

and they took it out there and they got about
two seconds of film of it and then it upended

and sunk and that was it. So the the footage
you get on on on the uh on the program >> is

the only footage like that two seconds or
however long it is before it just upended.

Everyone was like that. [laughter] Oh good. Yeah.
So uh >> in in the later story you got to do an

American accent. >> Oh my god. My legendary
American accent as well. You see I was really

good with accents. >> It was that good. >> I was
probably actually I was probably better with the

American one than I was with the Scottish one. >>
Yeah. And uh plus that was a bonus because I was

actually wearing jeans in that which was nice to
>> they put you in the top and trousers. >> Well

this yeah this was it the second series cuz I said
to Roger after the first one oh Roger really don't

want to wear this kilt anymore. I said cuz
I'm getting some right stick at school about

it honestly. I said can't you put me in trousers
or something like like you know jeans anything.

Yeah. And they did. They put me in bell. They
wouldn't put me in bell bottom tart and trousers.

Thought I have the kill instead, I think. >> But
did you go on to do more sort of acting ro? >>

Yeah. Yeah, I did. I did go on to do a few other
bits and bobs. But then um as I say, I started

I'd just sort of like uh it's the classic it's the
classic child actor syndrome. Do you know what I

mean? Things started to dry up. you go through
that change where you don't you don't quite feel

confident being a kid and you're not really an
adult and >> some people some people cross over

it some people don't >> and uh I had a lot of
stuff going on personally my mom fell ill and

you know just just things happened >> and I had
to get a normal job and once you get into once

you get scrunched into that normal job thing it's
so hard to break out and go no I want to go and do

the acting again because you know you've
got rent, you've got stuff to do. So it

was I just sort of slowly it wasn't it wasn't
like a it wasn't like a cut thing. It was just

like a slow gradual drift and then I was
playing guitar and and not really acting

anymore. And you know it had been so long
ago that >> I didn't really think, oh my god,

I'm not acting anymore. But I've still got equity.
>> Oh yeah, you did say I've still got equity.

You [laughter] did say once to me that you
did something with um some CGI characters.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I did. I did a Yeah, Dintopia.
Yeah. But that was that was, you know,

sort of trying to keep my hand in just like
little extra bits of work and stuff. But that

was really good. That was like four or five days.
>> Yeah. >> And uh yeah, the only time I've ever

been seen with a CG eye car like a dinosaur.
I was like held the freeze frame. I tell you,

I went, "Look, there's a brontosaurus and there I
am." [laughter] Great fun. Yeah. Terrific. But uh

>> is it is there anything about the Tomorrow
People that you wish you'd got to do? I mean,

you did get the trousers out. >> No, I
wanted an AE suit. I wanted one of those

ones that that that had the like the American
footballers helmet on. Pink one with the blue

piping. >> Yeah. I I really wanted one of
those funky suits and I never got one. >> So,

I was uh Yeah, I was um that was always
something I wanted. That was probably

it though. And a belt as well cuz we
had bands by then. >> Oh yeah. >> And

I was always up for a belt. But you
know I could I could handle that one.

>> And if the two people was back on today
and they said come back. >> Oh Christ. >> Play

Andrew as an adult. >> As an adult. Yeah. Would
you do it? Yeah. Of course I would. I'd do it

definitely. See it's it's just another challenge.
>> Do you know what I mean? And I I feel even

though I haven't, like I've said to you, I
don't I haven't done acting for a long time,

but I act all the time. This is me. This is
what I do. And I've I've always been the same.

So I think if anybody gave me a script,
it'd be like riding a bike, basically. I

just I learn it. I think, right,
I've got to do it. And >> it'd be

very strange to uh exercise the acting
muscles again. I must admit it would

uh it'd be good. It' be a challenge,
I say. >> [music] [music] >>

So, Philillip, when did you first get into acting?

>> Oh, I've been an actor ever since I was
born. I think I was a child in Canada and it

just grew. I never I never did anything else in my
whole life. >> You were born in Canada. >> Yeah,

I was born in Canada. Vancouver. >> And
when did you come to England? >> 1950,

I think it was. >> But I was acting all
my life. I can never remember anything

else. I was one of those people that got
my sisters to go out and and get all the

audience and I used to put ferns up in the
in the basement and put the sheets up and,

you know, and I used to make people sort
of pay a penny to come in and see me.

>> Just a natural thing for me. >> What sort of
roles did you find you were playing over? >> Oh,

I uh Shakespeare. I was a Shakespeare. I
love Shakespeare. all the classics. But

then of course when I started my career here
in this country it was comedy mostly just my

own kind of personality >> but mostly uh
theater or film television >> theater and

then I went into television and I went into
films that's why I learned a lot about the

technical side of of of the business because
I've been in all the mediums including radio so

there wasn't anything that I didn't really
know something about. You were involved with

the Tomorrow People earlier than anyone uh at
the stage it was being conceived almost. Um

when you were asked to play a voice as an such
an experienced actor, did you consider it an

insult? >> Yes. I I didn't really like the idea
at first. My agent Eric Glass at that time said,

"Don't be silly, old boy. I mean, this will be a
little money maker for you for for so I decided

to do it and of course the director I knew Paul
Bernard. So I said, "Yes, I do it." and and then

I began to realize that it was it was a lot of
fun. So that it didn't bother me, but I was a

little bit uh insulted to begin with. >> But you
you were pleased you did it. >> Yes, very much.

>> Did you get the feeling when you did the first
series? Oh, it's actually quite good. >> Yes. Yes.

Technically speaking, I found it interesting,
fascinating. >> Did you think it uh the first

series was good technically? Do you think it
looked good visually? >> Yes, I think it looked

good. It was very very difficult. I remember the
first day of shooting, we only got about 8 seconds

in the can. The whole studio was upside down
and I used to have my cans on and I could hear

the the I could hear the uh everything coming up
from everywhere. People screaming and yelling and

it was appalling. I mean, I don't know how we
ever did it at all. But we got we got to learn

how to do it and then it was it was fine. Did
they say to you, how how were you introduced to

um the the effect of Tim, the actual
physical presence of Tim? Did they say,

"Well, this is what it looks like and and
this is going to light up when you speak."

>> Yes. They showed me the lab and you remember
the the hanging pieces and the and the and all the

uh effects and you know it it it it used to
flash on and off and all that sort of thing.

So that that was fine. I love that. I
I mutated as you as you remember into

various other different forms then
ended up by just running around on a

you know in a little box which I didn't
like so much but I like the the lab the

lab was Tim virtually everything. >>
Well they certainly seem to like lava

lamps >> at [laughter] that point. Is that
what it was? >> Lava lamps. Yeah. There was

everything in it. >> Yeah. Back in vogue. Um
were you uh if you weren't part of actually

designing him were you allowed to input into
the character? Did they say read that or were

you able to actually build a character yourself
because you became a character more than >> Yes,

I think uh I think I was allowed I was allowed
to use my own experience and personality in

it. And I mean I remember the notices all
liked Tim when they first came out. They all

said Tim was was was a unique creation. So I
was very pleased about that. Although it was

influenced by HAL in 2001 as you pro, you know,
as it was obviously based on that, but we had

to make it we had to make it something that was
was unique. He had to be a living computer. He

had to be, you know, something that was that was
real. So I was able to use my own personality,

I think. Anyway, >> they they made him more
personal than how they more familiar. Yeah.

>> With the characters. Did you looking back
at the original Tim design up on the ceiling,

did you actually like it? >> Yes, I liked it much
better than than the others. >> Um, do you uh at

the at the start? Yeah. >> Right. At that point,
uh, was it ever discussed that you'd appear in

person or is it something that came later? Is it
something you pushed for? >> No, I didn't push for

it at all. I um [clears throat] I don't know. I
think it it just evolved and as he was a clone of

course and his voice was given by somebody
who was on the galactic trig they thought

well I we could bring him in and then
he was he was a clone so you could have

several versions of him and as you know in
several of them I was three characters and

and it was it was fun I loved it then
>> would you myself >> um had time and

not appeared uh as something you didn't
know about at the beginning. Would you

have been happy to just continue involved?
>> Yes, I would have done. Uh maybe bit of

the ham in me would have liked to have
appeared, but I I I would have continued

on just with Tim. >> How was it actually
done? How how did how was it filmed? And

where were you? I think we recorded Tim if
I remember correctly and then I would just

we pre-recorded him and then I would just act
with with myself as the uh as Tim I remember.

So that's how we must have done it. We must have
recorded Tim and then I would just act with my own

recorded voice. And of course I could use I had to
use the same voice as I was supposed to be a clone

or the person that gave my voice to Tim. I had to
use the same voice. So there were my voices were

going all over. [laughter] >> See talking to you
I can hear a slight Canadian accent but Tim you

couldn't pick it up at all. >> Really? >> Yes. I
think perhaps when one is relaxed as I am here the

the Canadian probably would come out a little bit
more there. I would have been very much because I

used to study my scripts very, you know,
I wanted everything that Tim said to be

absolutely correct because that was part of
of my idea of of the machine side of Tim.

Everything had to be absolutely correct. So
that I would probably not have have used my

Canadian accent at all. >> How how was Tim
physically done in terms of um were you to

the side of it? Obviously I've heard about
a booth. How was it done? [clears throat] We

started um we started in a booth which
was totally ridiculous because I you know

was all fainting all the time with the heat and I
couldn't hear myself. I couldn't see them. Then I

had a little monitor and a chair and my my mic uh
in one particular place. But by the end I was just

wandering around the set wherever I wanted to be,
whatever, you know, as long as I could have the

the microphone uh leads and everything. But I was
totally free to to to do from wherever. I could

have, you know, done it from the Lou. I mean,
any anything. It was just so easy at the end.

>> The voice changed though. It went from very
affected by effect to far more natural. Yeah,

I think that was that was one of the uh one
of the uh criticisms was that there was too

much effect on the voice to begin with and they
wanted it to be much much closer and I think it

should have been real from the start. I think that
was a mistake to do that. >> You're you've been

described by others then particularly now as I
figure >> of the group um and PBC still calls you

Mr. Daddy to this day. Um how did that all come
about? >> [snorts] >> Well, I was much older.

I suppose I was, you know, I was a vankular
figure to all of them. They were children and,

uh, some, you know, some of them did become
very close to me as an avankular figure,

uh, teacher, you know, guru,
whatever. It's it's quite, you know,

natural with children that they do look up to
to that sort of kind of figure. And of course,

we had all lots of fun as well. They
were terribly rude at times. and oh gosh

the things that they used to do to me but
it was you know I loved them all and it

was great. >> Did you find yourself sorting
them out offset as well? >> Oh yes I tried

to help them in their private lives if if
if you know I could do you know through

their relationships and their marriages.
I mean I'm very very close to to Mike.

godfather to his children and and Nikki of
course as well and uh PBC [clears throat] when

he when he was younger uh you know I
used to sort of be a father figure to

him as well it just was natural for me and the
girls as well all of them we were we were like

a family I mean it's a cliche and you know it's
been said in a thousand different ways but it we

were a family we were very very close >> and
as much as Nick um in his interview said that

uh as as well as being the leader of the
Tomorrow People in the program, he found

himself sometimes ordering things offset as well.
Um did you get on okay with Nick in that respect?

Yes, I always got on well with Nick, but

um I got on well with all of them, but I don't
know that everybody got on in the same sort of

way, you know, with each other because Nick was
the the Nick was the sort of school prefect,

you see. And the school prefect always had,
you know, you had you had to keep the other

children had to be sort of, you know, kept in
line. And they used to resent it in some ways,

you know, and I mean, you probably heard
some some of the remarks that people have

made about each about each other. But for me, I
I just love them all. Didn't bother me at all.

>> Uh, were some of the younger cast
members mischievous to you or to each

other at all? Did they? >> Oh, yes,
of course they were terrible. I mean,

they had to call the police, I think, several
times at I remember in one of the early days,

the uh PVC and one of the other boys
did put something down the toilet that

caused a terrible these terrible fumes that
were probably poisonous and going to poison

the entire studio. They used to do terrible
things and terrible things to me. Oh, terrible

things to me because I would appear as a very
dignified figure, you see, and then some one

of them would fart or something like that just
as the camera was on my face. And of course,

I had to remain completely above it all. But oh,
they were terrible. Terrible. >> Sammy has told

me that um she wouldn't know what she was doing
technically and you'd actually spend time with

her and explain uh what was going on. So, you
obviously had a good understanding. >> Well,

I did. uh as I think I've already
mentioned because I have had had so much

experience in the business technically speaking
films I was under contract to to film company I

had u the number of years that we worked on the
tomorrow people I had experience in theater and I

had experience in radio so that I knew technically
all about the medium so it was easy for me to pass

that information on. Did you think it was a
mistake that Sammy left and did you try to

persuade her to say? >> Yes, I did think it was
a mistake but she was you know she's an adorable

little girl as you know and in those days
she was enchanting and she wanted to go

into the theater. Now a lot of actors of course
do want theater more than anything else and she

she came down to Farum as a matter of fact
the Red Grave Theater to do Juliet in Romeo

and Juliet. So it was a wonderful opportunity
for her but I did regret it. I did regret the

fact that she left. I thought she gave an
awful lot to the program. >> Do you think

the show could have supported both her and
Liz? >> Yes. Oh, yes. I'm sure Liz was was

wonderful in her way and and and uh they
just complimented one another. I think

they could easily have been together. >>
Do you think Roger Price tried to break

down racial barriers by introducing her? I
think he probably never thought about it as

we never thought about it in racial terms at
all. We just love Liz and that was, you know,

I don't think it it occurred to Roger. It wouldn't
have mattered what what nationality or color

any artist was. I think Roger would just
have they would just be people to Roger.

he was able to actually get past >> but it might
have uh in you know broken the the barriers if I

don't I cannot remember in those days whether
it was significant at all that sort of feeling

was it? Yeah, but according to Elizabeth,
um there were very few roles for black

actors and it improved considerably. Yeah.
Through the time she >> Well, I I you know,

I just loved Liz and it didn't even occur to me,
but maybe yes, but I don't know whether it was a

deliberate thing on his uh on his part. >> In
the third season, you appeared for the first

time as Timeless and uh it's obvious you reveled
in the part uh and really enjoyed it. Um did you

get more out of the series at that point? Yes,
I think so. I was I was hamming it up. I think,

you know, everybody used to say, you
know, they would come up and say I was

um you know, one another famous comedian
or or or somebody else. And I I did enjoy

it. I I you know, I thought it was I thought
it was uh it was fun. It it that that's all

it was. I mean, it was fun. I never used to
take it seriously at all really. >> Do you

think Roger Price got the humor right? Yeah, just
about. I liked his sense of humor. We did uh in,

you know, put our own little bits of of
humor in it sometimes as well. But yeah,

I liked it. I liked it when the scripts
were good. You see, now this is what a

lot of people have said about the Tomorrow
People. It didn't really deteriorate it.

[clears throat] It would just it would
be not good when the scripts were not

good. But if we had a good script, it was
excellent. And and it still works today.

you see some of the bad ones and and you know it's
just simply because the scripts were not there

and Roger of course you know he could not and I
don't blame him I think one of the reasons why

he he'd stopped doing it was because he couldn't
he couldn't create any more ideas you can't just

go on forever trying to create something that
you know but uh if the scripts were good I I

thoroughly enjoyed it >> Roger allowed one of
uh another writer John Watkins once Yeah, that's

right. >> into the unknown and then never again.
>> Do you think um if he had been able to allow

other writers to do it that the show would have
been better >> and not that was perhaps bad. >> It

wouldn't have [clears throat] it couldn't have
been anybody's creation but his it was his

own creation. He if he could have gone continue
with it he uh and and continued to be fertile in

his ideas. think it could have gone on but I
don't think anybody else and that never does

work really when somebody else takes somebody
else's idea something will change and you know

you lose the the whole center of it all >>
did did you try to humanize Tim as it went

on I mean I remember later episodes where if
your um uh dangly roots or tubes were tickled

you laughed is that something you decided I'm
going to >> I think we did I think I think

Ah, I remember there's dangly bits and the jokes
about them and everything else and feather dusters

and all that and you know um yeah I think we did.
>> One of the things people uh remembered before

they knew anything about it was the way that
uh Peter Vaughn Clark left the show. Is that

something that you were involved with at all and
do you think it was a mistake? Yes, I was very

very involved in it because we were not uh really
informed that Peter was not going to be in it.

Whether there was a little moral cowardice on
on somebody's part, but we were not told that

PC was really not going to be in it. uh and he
came to the rehearsal for the for that series

the the first one and uh I I I met him outside
and and brought him in and we even now I don't

really quite understand you know because it
was pretty brutal I think really the way in

which it was done if it was possible that he
was not going to be in it he should have been

told you know quite a considerable time
before but nobody we could never find out

really And I think it was Mike and PBC. They
couldn't have the two boys of more or less

the same age and the same type. And um Mike
was was certainly going to be in that series,

but it was not a particularly happy episode.
I don't really like to talk about it too

much. >> Why do you think that Peton Clark
was dropped? The reason was it his age? Was

it his hat? Yes, I think perhaps it was
his age and u Roger always had to have a

young boy to create the, you know, the the
show for and Mike was that young boy. Mike

had sort of taken over from from PBC. I
don't think they got rid of PBC anything

to do with his inability to act or as
he says himself apparently. Um I don't

think it was that at all. I just think
that Roger's creative uh feelings went

to Michael and and poor PBC was sort of you
know as who had created it originally. Of

course Roger had created that character but
it was always had to be that character had

to be another boy each time each each time
the boy grew up and then he had to go back

to find another boy. I mean that was I think
a lot of it and you can edit all this out if

you want to >> but I think it certainly did
have something to do with the fact that he

could create these characters but they
they had to go through the young boy his

own [clears throat] youth his own you know they
were his chums they were the people he wanted to

to go out and shoot with and and and play games
with. He used to buy all the kids the games and

things like that and he used to love all that
sort of thing and he could create through that

and then when that child grew up then it
it he had to find another one and I think

that's really all that was with and then Nigel
Rhodess of of course was coming on in the last

series and it would probably have been
through Roger. I do you think that um

it was a mistake to write two characters
out at the same time because we didn't

really get to know Dean Lawrence Taiso
as well as as PBC as Steven? >> Yeah,

perhaps you see the interior politics.
It was also don't forget not only Roger

but there was there were was producers and and
you know other people who had different ideas

and perhaps maybe one of the characters had
only a certain shelf life no matter how good

they might have been you know you could only
do so many things with them and then they would

have to get on to something else and and a lot
of the the kids a lot I mean there's a lot of

artists in that show I mean there was almost
every child actor of any kind was in that show

at one time or another and many of them became
became very famous and but they they only could

last for you know for a certain length of time
and and I don't think there was anything more

significant to it than that really. >>
When Michael Holay came in um in season

4 um Peter von Clark and Dean Lawrence were
still in it. Do you think it had already been

decided that Michael Holay would continue? um
he suddenly remembered in the uh the rest of it

was Mike Holloway's show as it were. Uh but
do you think that um they were going to see

how it went and perhaps leave the other two
characters in at that stage? >> Yes. I mean

this follows on really from what I've just been
saying that there were so many different reasons

why all these things happened. You see, but
Mike of course became immensely popular. You

know he was he was you know on the cover
of radio times as the personality of the

year and all that sort of thing. he became
very very popular and and of course Roger

was was doing it for Michael in those days and
and um there's you know there's no and there's

nothing I can say about that Mike did this
and Nick did that or you know I don't didn't

know all about you know the the interior sort of
politics but I think that you know it just got

overloaded with too many characters I
think really and >> that does come into

my final question of that which
is um do you think it could have

um withstood them all being in it? >> No, I
think it would have been too loose. It would

have been too difficult to write for instance
any you know to write meaty sort of stuff for

too many people. I just don't think it would
have worked. >> Going on to um you as Thomas

now. Um the costume for Thomas was very regal,
very lavish. Um did you have anything to do

with that? And did you get to keep anything?
Clothes, props or anything? >> No, I didn't.

I didn't keep anything and I can't remember
how I can't remember what he was dressed in.

Was it a long We had long flowing robes
and things like that for timers and cheek

was was the more active one, wasn't he? The
the >> the one that the boys used to say,

"You look like Les Dawson." I thought that was
wonderful. I love that. Um, >> yeah. I mean,

they had quite a, you know, wonderful wonderful
costume department at Temps and they just, you

know, did I don't know. I I think they were
probably designed for for the characters,

but I didn't keep any of them or or anything. >>
When I think about the rehearsals, um I think it

must have been very very confusing in rehearsal
when nobody was in costume and there were no

camera crew, whatever for you to be playing
three characters in one go. Um did it did that

get confusing for you or anybody in rehearsal?
Was it quite funny? >> No, I don't think I ever

had any trouble with that at all. Never. I used
to, you know, be able to sort of uh visualize

all three of them and and in the, you know, the
way in which they all do dubtailed together.

I don't think I ever had any trouble
with that. Maybe somebody else did and,

you know, the kids were probably confused
or the the crew might have been confused,

but I didn't get confused. >> I'm I've
been told is that the original set

uh for the lab got destroyed in a fire. >> Yeah.
just one of the one of the curious things that

I I don't know whether that's true or not.
>> Um well I I thought it was true but I've

been mentioning it and nobody seems to instantly
go oh yeah >> yeah so I'm wondering >> is I mean

exactly I mean for me so many anomalies really we
tried to find out after it ended where the where

the programs oh they've all been they've all been
wiped they don't exist. the sets were kept for a

while and then and then you know destroyed
and then suddenly they were found again. I

mean you know I mean it's it is like a factory
in many ways and you do put all the things in

various different places and then you can't
find them afterwards and I suppose that you

know we I don't know what the truth was
about that but I love that set the lab

set the lab set was destroyed actually in one
of the programs wasn't it? Do you remember? I

think I think something happened to the lab
>> in one of them the set they did have the

seating come in. >> Yeah. Everything fell
apart and maybe they did destroy it and

then when again not sure whether they
were going to do the next series they

had to have a new format and then they put me
in that thing little box that was running all

over the place. >> Did you think uh in the
newer set that came later on did you think

that worked better? Did you enjoy or did you
think the original was better? >> I like the

original. It had much more atmosphere. This new
one did. It was strange and you know and then when

I saw this thing running around I [laughter]
didn't like that very much really. >> Yes,

I keep in touch with Nick who is my agent and I
keep in touch with Mike of course who's a great

chum of mine. PBC I very very rarely see Elizabeth
I have seen occasionally and and but I keep in

touch certainly in my heart with all of them you
know because they are like a family really to me.

If the show had continued, um I
I'll come to White End in a minute,

but if the show had continued, would you have
been happy just to continue to play Tim and be

in it? >> Yes. I think the formula for me
was right at that time with Tim and then

occasionally appearing as one of the others
and I think that would have gone on and I

would have been quite happy with that. >> How
did you first hear of the show's cancellation?

>> A long story. Um we knew that there were
we knew that there were there were questions

about it because of the technical side of it. It
used to tie up too much time in the studio and

they always wanted uh you know it would tie
up all the technical side of the studio and

they would they wanted it I think the last
director wanted two days and they wouldn't

give it to him. Now whether that was just a ploy
because of course this was just the strike the

famous strike was on and of course
cuts had to be made and and money

had to be saved and it was a question of
whether if they could have got technically

uh this program in on one day they
would probably have allowed it to go

on but because of the difficulties as I say
after the strike they felt that it was going

to be too expensive to make it. So whether
they you whether they use that as an excuse,

Vic Hughes, who was the last director, said um
he wanted two days in the studio. But we were not

told. We were not told. You see, we had
the news series, we had the scripts,

we were told that it was going to go on and
then we would find that it wasn't going to go

on and then we would find it was was on again
back and forth. It was a very very difficult

time. And then I just suddenly got a phone
call a few weeks before we were due to start

to say it wasn't going to be done. And then the
door slammed in our face. We weren't even said,

they didn't even say thank you. And it
was as if the program had never existed.

It was extraordinary what happened. >>
I know. And I remember Roger got got PBC

a motorbike and and it was on the first day
of filming and it was so foggy that and he and

PBC didn't turn up and of course Roger was in a
state of hysterics that the boy had hurt himself,

you see, on this motorbike. There were all kinds
of things like that. Was that the one PBC told on

the sage channel that he said he had an accident
because he was so late. >> That's right. Yeah. He

pretended that he'd been run over or something and
and [laughter] it was only because he was late. He

overslept or something. He was always doing things
like that. >> We we could say that. Oh yeah,

>> that sounds excellent. That's quite funny cuz
that's a very funny story. >> Which one? >> The

the thing that he got up. He said he
got up and he kept hearing the phone

ringing. >> Yeah. >> And he got up three
hours later. He said, "What am I going to

do?" And and the way But they took it away from
him, I understand. >> Well, the motorbike. Yes,

I think they did. I think they were too frightened
of it because he was only a kid. He was only a

baby. >> Really? Are we filming now? >> Are
we? >> So, all that stuff. >> I didn't know

that filth that I have been saying. >>
Unfortunately, not the first filthy bit.

It is the end of this. >> Right. I didn't
know he'd start. >> Yeah. But that was that

was a very funny story that PVC Well, you
can edit this in anyway somewhere where

you think it might fit. Yeah. >> That he would
he would do extraordinary extravagant things.

And he did arrive once at the in rehearsals
bandaged bandaged all over like a mummy

almost. And [laughter] we asked what? Oh,
I've had this terrible accident. Terrible

accident. I've been run over by by a bus
or something. And and it was all because

he was late late for rehearsal. I mean,
he he would do terrible things like that

all the time. >> But he was found out,
I understand. >> Oh, yes. He was found

out. We always knew. We always knew what he
was doing. But it was just a little bit over

elaborate this this sort of casualty that
derived. Okay, >> that's brilliant. Um,

where were we? Uh, oh, I was just going
to ask one more thing. What What the the

strike in 1979. What was it about? >>
Well, I think it was the technicians. I

think it was the technicians. It was the
cameramen, I think, because there were

new technologies coming in and uh you
know, it would probably have meant that

they could get away with half as many. I think
something like that. Quite a simple thing,

but it was disastrous, of course,
because by the time it was over,

there was far le far less work for for far
fewer people. Those strike that strike was

awful. I remember it went on for ages. [snorts]
And I think that's what how it started. I think

it was the the technicians because television
was changing the way in which it was being

done and if you remember in the early days you
had a floor covered with cameras if you remember

or you wouldn't remember but of course there were
masses of cameramen and funnily enough one of the

uh films that we had made about this
theater. The two head cameramen of

the tomorrow people actually did it. It was
quite extraordinary. We were talking about

the We were talking about the uh strike
and it had a devastating effect. I mean,

we were not the only people that
that were were affected by it, but

dozens of technicians, I should think. >> It
certainly had an effect on I mean, me personally,

a 12-year-old, I started watching it was just a
blue screen saying we there was nothing on ITV.

So, I started watching BBC and that may well
have been the end of Temp's golden era. >> I

think it perhaps was. Yeah, Tame's was a,
you know, Tames was a wonderful studio to

work for and I do think that did destroy,
you see, it did destroy a great deal more

than than I think people realized >> and in
some ways it has never been the same since.

>> Did you ever see any scripts to the
final season that wasn't I understand

your >> I have seen them. I've seen them.
Yeah, I I know that they do exist and

uh I don't know where where they are though.
I can't I can't remember whether I I've tried

to look for them, but I've I don't know
whether I've thrown them out or what,

but I do know that the scripts were there for
the last series and that of course after the

show was chopped, they didn't repeat the last
series either. So, we lost quite a lot of money

uh by that strike really. >> Why Why
do you think um they canceled it? Was

a mistake and could it still be going today?
Yes, it could be still going today. I mean,

maybe not because you would have had then to
bring in other writers as we we've discussed

because nobody could have kept it going that
long. But I think it could have gone for a

considerable time uh when when they chopped it and
and as I say the this the real reason I think was

combination financial and emotional and you
know there were many many reasons why why it

was canceled but it wasn't a very nice way of
doing it. I think we all felt insulted. We all

felt hurt and uh you know as I say the door
just slammed in our face and it was as if it

had never happened. >> Do you think television
lost something? Do you think the kids need a

program? >> Oh yes. I think the kids loved
it and even now why does why do you want to

make this film? Because it it it was a fascinating
program way ahead of its time and kids don't have

anything as imaginative or quite as imaginative.
There have been some good programs and there still

are. But nothing that takes their takes the whole
imagination. Kids love to use their imagination.

It's the way they grow and that program helped
them to do that. >> What was it you did uh after

the Tomorrow People? Did you come to the Princ?
>> No, I went I went back into the theater.

I did quite a few theater things and and
quite a few more television shows and then

uh I was sort of semi-retired really when Freddy
uh my partner got the the idea for this children's

theater. Now this was built for children, you
see. It originally was for children and he

wanted me to help with it and I was reluctant at
first and didn't really want to particularly but

I did. I came into it and I do the drama for
the children, appear in the pantomime and do

the you know do the chairman in the oldtime
musical and now the theater's taking off in

its own right not only as a children's theater
although we do have fair financial problems

because we're doing it ourselves. We're hoping
to get grant council grants and things like that,

but so far not because it's a lovely idea
and it's a beautiful theater and it should

continue and and not be destroyed. But
you know, all ideas, all lovely ideas

like candles in the wind and you have to be very
very careful about making sure that you can keep

those those ideas because that's that's
what creation is all about. That's what

the tomorrow people really was all
about. It was his candle in the wind.

Rogers and he created something lovely
and this is this is a creation too

but it has to be treated treated
with great care. [music] [music]

[music] So, we're now at the new theater
in Cardiff and you're currently in a run

of Joseph and the Amazing Dream Coat. >>
That's right. >> Uh I understand you're

quite well known for doing that role. You've done
it for a while. >> That's right. I mean 19858687

uh was when I actually sort of made my u sort
of uh diecast name in the role of Joseph with

Bill Kright's production which this is that
we're sitting on the actual set now. And this

is one of the dream coats that I have on. And
um I performed the role for just over 3 years

during that period in the 80s. Um but other
productions that I've done, one in Japan,

um one at the Swansea Grand Theater where I did
a sort of mini summer run for about eight weeks,

eight, nine weeks. Um and now this little block
that I'm doing now is actually culminated in

notching up 3,000 performances in the title
role. >> How does it work in Japan? Do they

understand what's going on? >> They do. The
music is is universal. I mean, it's the power

of the music. Um, and it's so infectious and the
melodies are so catchy that it doesn't matter

what nationality you're performing in front of,
the show just grabs you. >> This is running for

a couple of weeks. Is that the normal type of
run that it would go for and then you move on

or >> That's right. Normally, we would do uh
two weeks in every major town and city. Um,

slightly smaller venues, we might
do one week to test um and then

book it four weeks. Next time round, maybe
9 months later. Um, but generally speaking,

the show now does two very successful weeks
wherever it lands. >> But of course, this

is where it all started for you in the theater,
isn't it? >> It did indeed. I mean, it goes back a

long, long way for me now, sounding like an old
man, but I did start when I was 8 years old. Um,

and I started in kind of what they
called um basic reparatory theater. Uh,

which means that you're very much um under the
guise of different show formats and different

characters within those shows. So you're
for example on a Monday to Friday basis

you're doing a show a review on Monday you're
doing a play on Tuesday you're doing a rock

and roll thing on the Wednesday you're doing a
panto on the Thursday and then you're back to a

review um which is like a cabaret on the Friday.
>> Doesn't that get confusing? >> It gets terribly

confusing. >> Well this is it going to the
tomorrow people. Do you think that you've been

able to continue so successfully in the business
because you started off that way whereas somebody

else would simply brought in for the series?
>> Yeah. Well, thankfully I was a musician as

well as a performer um actor uh whichever way
you look at it. Um I basically have been able

to slot myself into, for example, in the last
decade we've been um a victim of in the nicest

possible way of artists performing the roles
of musicians in rock and roll shows like Buddy,

Twist and Shout, Hold Tight, and all these shows
I've been in because I can play guitar and I can

play drums as well as sing and front. So it
means that I've been able to do shows like

that. Whereas if you're just an actor then
obviously formats like that you can't even

be considered for. So touchwood I've been
very lucky having strings of my bow to fire

at different levels. Um and that I think has
been accumulatively one of the main reasons

why I've been able to kind of springboard into
a long-term career hopefully in the business.

But >> people would have seen you alongside
Tomorrow People with your band Flintlock. When did

that start? Well, that started before the Tomorrow
People in actual fact. Um, it was a little group

called the Young Revival. Um, and I was 9 10 years
old at the time performed on Blue Peter. >> That's

very young. >> Yes, very young. >> Uh, with Val
Singleton and John No, who were lovely. They were

very supportive of me at the time and because I
was only a kid and it was my first TV. Uh, the

group's name was then changed to Flintlock
and the rest is history. We had our own

series called You Must Be Joking with Ray Berdis
and John Blundle and Pauline Quirk who now is

very successful. I'm very pleased to see along
with Linda Robson who was in the show as well.

And um we had our own series. And it was
Roger Price who was producing The Tomorrow

People as well and writing that could see that
I could work in straight situations because I

was involved in the comedy sketches. And
you, Richard, very kindly showed me some

of these snaps of me dressed up as uh uh
Captain Kirk in Star Trek looking all of

about 8 years old or something. Um which was
very funny. I'm pleased to see they're still

about. Do you remember it or do you think
that's another kid? >> I do remember it

very vividly because in those days I was
so busy because I was running two lives.

I was running the life as a straight actor
in Tomorrow People and then the life of a

kind of rock musician in Flintlock. So I had
to learn things so fast and so rigidly that

they've stayed with me like very very focused
memories in fact. Well, yes it is true.

Um there was one period in the early
70s between 75,76 and 77 where I was

on Monday to Friday every week for 16 weeks.
Um one of my series was called Fanfare which

was like a rock I remember >> classical. Yeah,
there you go. Um and that was very successful

um in its format. We did three series of
that. Three series of eight. And then on the

Tuesday was the Tomorrow People. Um on the
Wednesday it was Paul's Quirks. On the first

day it was a thing called Magic Circle with
Ray Allen and Lord Charles. >> Wow. >> That's

the first time I've heard of that since. Yeah.
But I did watch it. >> Yeah. That was on and

on Friday it would have been repeats of what
was you Must Be Joking which was our first

ever series that we ever made. >> The Ray and
Lord Charles one. Was that with Flint Flintlock

or was that you acting in sketches? >>
That was me acting in sketches not the

others and also we supplied the music. I mean,
basically there was a lot of comedy. There was

Ra and and Lord Charles doing his puppet thing.
Um, and um, obviously we supplied the music for

the show. >> You must have been a nervous wreck.
>> Well, by the time I was 17, I was pretty

quivering. I mean, I lost a lot of weight. I
actually ended up ill. I I had pneumonia caused by

exhaustion basically. Um, and I was hospitalized
for two and a half weeks. >> Did you ever think at

that point, I think I got to slow down here?
>> I did slow down immediately. As soon as

that experience happened, you know, when
people were still putting the pressure on me,

I immediately said, "No, I'll do that, but I
won't do that. Let's do that the following day."

I learned a lesson. >> And Flintlock ended when
>> Flintlock ended um I tell you where we were.

We were doing the Apollo Victoria Theater, West
End London, where Starlight Express is on now. And

I'll always remember it. We were in the dressing
room getting ready for the show. Um, we had the

hairdressers doing the business and the costumes
and we were watching the Bill Grundy show in

the dressing room and the Sex Pistols came on
and sat down and they were effing and blinding

and you know all this was going on. Poor Bill
Grundy was going and >> that's famous that

that was it today. >> Yeah, today program and
within a week the program was axed >> and we

all looked at each other in the dressing room
and we thought where's this going? Of course,

it was the arrival of punk rock and it
was a big wave and there's no way we

could fight that. So, we decided
to bow out while we were on top.

>> And that happened to a lot of bands at that
time. Yes. The whole thing changed. >> Yeah.

Literally almost overnight within 6 months
from the glam rock, from the innocence of

all that wonderful, you know, out of the
60s into the 70s kind of fun glam rock era,

you had this hard, aggressive, very
unpleasant, in my opinion, punk rock.

Do you ever get the urge to stick on a flint
not record? Now >> I still listen to some of our

records because I think for our age we were ahead
of our time. I mean we were only a 13y old group.

>> We played live >> on the early series of
You Must Be Joking. If anybody watches them,

you listen, you can tell it's live. >> But that's
You see that's very young. A lot of groups would,

especially boy bands, would be much older
than that. uh with Hansen it's gone back a

little more to what it was but Hansen perhaps a
little more manufactured than you were flinch a

band that got together as friends or was it
a manufacturing studio? >> We were all part

of a Saturday morning music college called the
Barking and Essex School of Music where I studied

and so did [clears throat] the other members of
Flintlock because that's how we met. At the end

of school midday there was like the Essex jazz
band. I was the drummer, uh, Derek was the saxs,

John was the guitarist, Jeremy was the bass,
and Bill was the gibble player. And we had

common interests at the time, and we formed
a group then called the Young Revival. So,

we were not manufactured in any way. >> Do
you keep in touch with any of them? >> Yeah,

we meet occasionally, but I'm the one
that's obviously sort of stayed very

much in the business. Um, and I rarely
get time to even see my own wife and

kids, never mind see anybody else. So, we keep
in touch and now and again we'll have a party

at someone's house and we'll sort of sit down and
you know the girls get a bit fed up with it and

we say, "Oh, do you remember when we were in Japan
and we chucked that television out the window and

it was oh that was brilliant. Oh, we've done all
that and we trust those rooms and we got build for

about $15,000 or whatever it was and we reminisce
on various things but >> I thought Flint lot was

a nice band. >> We were but off the scene we
were just a bunch of kids having fun." Yeah.

>> What about appearing on the Tomorrow People?
Did did any of them mind that? Did anyone think

well actually this is Mike's show and we're
getting involved with something different

here or was it >> just natural to do it? >>
It was just natural. I mean for me it was a

natural progression at the time. It >> for
Flintlock >> I mean for Flintlock to appear

was again another nice edge because if you
think about it it gave them a lovely story

because in fact the hearts of Sagas >> is one
of the kind of four blocks of four that was the

story line that people remember because
it had that infectious kind of rhythm.

And it was all this messic thing. And
of course, kids find that fascinating,

you know, all this hypnosis and whatever. And uh,
funnily enough, Hearts of Sagoth is one of the um,

run of four that people often talk about. So, it
gave the Tomorrow people a four episodical event

that was quite interesting. >> Did you really
play on that >> or was that done by someone

else? >> Oh, no. I played on that. I mean,
I >> You are playing drums. >> Yes. I mean,

I um I was voted um quite proud
of it actually. At the age of 13,

I was voted uh in the top five in my age group
under 16 in Europe >> as a percussionist,

drummer um and site reader, >> which was
lovely. >> Not a lot of people know that,

but they do now. [laughter] >> Mike, how did
you first get into acting? >> Um basically,

it was the influence of my granddad who
was a drummer in his own jazz band. Uh

that brought me into music. Um, and from then
on, obviously it culminated in me having my

own little group called the Young Revival. Um,
and then I went to a a theater school called

the Anesure Theater School, which is still very
successful now. Um, at the age of about seven or

eight years old. >> And how did how did Roger
Price first meet you? >> Well, in those days,

they had scouts. It's not so often that happens
now, but Temps TV had a scout called Roger Price

who had written a show and he was looking for
a group to appear in his new series called The

Tomorrow People. Um, and we were doing a cabaret
for Lady Ratlings at the Civic Theater Bow,

which is no more sadly. Um, and he saw us
there and literally came backstage after

we'd performed and um, within a week we were
signed up in terms of television doing the

series. It happened that fast. When you came into
the Tomorrow People, it was already an extremely

established program. It been going for four
seasons, three seasons. Do you think you were

brought in at all on the basis that you were well
known in the band? >> Yes. >> To to like bring up

the rating. >> Yes. Looking back on it, that was
obviously the move. I mean, obviously at that age,

you're not aware of the marketing strategies that
go behind things, but looking back, that was quite

obvious because the group were successful. We
had two hit records. Um, we had the albums,

we had our own series, and I guess Roger felt
it was the natural transition to develop a

character within the Tomorrow people to cash
in on that popularity. So, I don't doubt that

was one of the main reasons, but uh hopefully
I had a little something to offer as well. Who

knows? >> Some of the fans think uh and this
is just a perception which may not be true that

uh in the end, whether intended or
not, you replaced the character of

Steven. >> Yes. >> Is that how you see
it? >> Yes. it had to happen because

you can't have two people so similar. Um and
because I was a musician as well as an actor

um it was befitting of the roles that were
coming along. Hence um previous discussion

with you uh Richard about um the hearts of
Sagoth because obviously I played all the

guitar and the drums and the percussion
on those particular things and therefore

that ability was used in the Tomorrow people.
>> Some of your stories were a bit grittier

than some previous ones. There were two stories.
almost Hitler's last stand >> and another was

the dirtiest business. Now dirtiest business
is one of the most fun you remember of the

whole thing. >> Yes. >> Do you remember filming
that? Was that >> partly? Yes. Um Lord Dunning

my wouldbe manager and uh whatever. I mean it was
very gritty stuff. It was good. It was very earthy

and also I was breaking out or my character was
breaking out. So, it was um very um very serious

part of the um of the show because obviously
when a tomorrow person breaks out, he's not

having a very good time as you know. [laughter]
>> It's a shame we never saw you break out. One

of the very few we didn't see. >> That's
right. It was done very subtly in actual

fact with my character. Why? You'll have to ask
Roger Price that. I don't know. >> It was never

written. I don't think it was intended that
way that he he was seen to be suffering as as

a tomorrow person breaking out but he arrived
as a tomorrow person as opposed to seeing the

transition which was quite unusual. >>
Do you think that the character of Mike

up until then the tomorrow people have
been quite aloof not really with it but

Mike like girls he went out to discos do
you think he was brought in to be more

realistic? >> That's right. It's the realism
factor that makes things like currently birds

of a feather so successful and other things
like that. It's got that element of total

realism that people can instantly relate to
that makes it popular. >> Can you remember

a lot of fun on set? Was there a lot of
laughing and was it difficult sometimes

to get a take in? >> There was funnily
enough there wasn't a lot of time and

that's genuine because there was such pressure.
The Tomorrow people cost X amount to make as a

commodity because it was sci-fi. It had to
meet certain standards and if there was any

messing about it was very strict. It was listen
overtime, you know. But during the lunch hour,

during the lunch hour, however, that's when all
the practical jokes were played and I can remember

being left swinging on Kirby wires 15t high in
temps television. Um, it was my birthday and they

left me up there for the whole of the lunch break
and they they didn't let me down. >> That must

have hurt >> and they thought that was hysterical.
It didn't actually because they they were

harnessed in such a way it was just
uncomfortable. But um there were a

lot of practical jokes played but not during
time. It was very serious business in those

days. >> Did you ever get to keep anything
like a belt or an AE suit? Dean Lawrence

said that you stole his suit. He never got
to wear a suit after you came along. >> Well,

if I did, um, I don't know where it is. Um,
there was a lot of changes with costumes.

There was a lot of changes with the set. Um,
there were constantly upgrading. We went from

a belt to a band. We went from a band to
a head, then we went back to the band on

the wrist. Uh, we had certain suits. um they were
changing all the time because as technology was

changing obviously so was the series so costumes
certainly changed at a dramatic pace. >> Did

you find it difficult because uh whatever you're
doing at the time Flint lock was quite a serious

project. Did you find that a problem running
that together with the tomorrow people? >> I

did very much so. Um in fact at the point of
um I remember I was about 14 years old and I

was actually pulled out of school. That was my
problem running all of them together and um they

commissioned a private tutor as well as
the chaperone so that I had I could do my

schooling at Temp's television as well as
film in the Tomorrow People and Flintlock.

So once they alleviated that problem um I
still had to study of course um but I was

able to do the two shows and school in the
same place as opposed to going to school

in London and then having to film the two
shows. I found that very difficult >> with

the Mike's clothes were again very of the
time very realistic. Would they send you out

and say buy some clothes or did they bring
How were clothes worked out and costume?

>> Oh no, that was all done wardrobe.
Wardrobe you didn't have to worry about

things like that. >> Your relationship
with John was written into the program

uh as as very very different from the character
of Steven to John. Mike was much more an equal

to John. Yes. >> And in so much there was
some tension there. >> Was that something

that was intended? Well, I don't think it was
intended, but it was an edge that that again,

it was received very well by the fans and
the people that watched the show. They like

that rub. If I wanted to do something, I
was the little cocknney rebel, you know,

and I did it. And John didn't like that and he
tried to stop me, but I went off and did it.

And that little edge was was quite a nice little
running thing throughout the show. >> You stayed

with the series to its end and it changed quite
considerably towards the end. They brought in

um Misaka Koba and Nigel Rhodess >> firstly um
some viewers found it difficult to understand

Msaka. Was it easy to understand her on
the set? Um it wasn't but then again we

got used to it you see and I think that people
that watched her for the first time found it

a little difficult but once they got used to
her character and the way that she did speak

um it became a very charming kind of element
of the show because she was oriental she was

very charming lady and I felt it personally
it was something that was really quite nice

to have in the show. It seemed that um around
that time this well from the beginning that

uh there would be a child in the program the
child would grow up and be replaced by another

one. Um I put this question to Philip Gilbert
and he suggested that although Nigel Rose had

been brought in at the end he thinks that the
mic carrier would have character would have

continued. >> Um if the strike hadn't happened
in 79 and the series continued would you have

been happy to continue with that? >> Of course
because at the time it was winning awards we

were all winning awards. I mean it would
have been foolish to have not stayed with

it really. Um but of course T's made that
decision for us and the series was stopped.

So we all moved on in our various different
ways and um I'm very pleased to be able to

say that I was able to sort of carve out um a
sort of more of a rock musical stroke serious

musical career for a decade after that
period and touchwood I was able to ride

the wave as they say um without too much of
a blip but I would have stayed of course.

How did you take all the agilation at the
time? Was it was it a good thing or did it

become difficult in the end? >> It's always
difficult that kind of a wave. I don't think

anyone can ever answer how and why it
affects you. You just go with it best

way you can. Um I had a very strict upbringing
as a child anyway. Um so um I had a very good

family and I was able to keep feet very firmly
on the ground and never once lost sight of the

overall perspective. I was taught that there's
a very big difference and that is that to be

successful is what you aim for. Famous
is a bad word. I was taught that equation

and basically I live by that. So for me it was
the work that affected me more than I mean the

edgulation was all part of it. I mean, it's
like with doing a show like Joseph, I mean,

it's wonderful because the the audience
received the whole company so warmly and

enthusiastically and without that agilation
for the show, obviously, you'd think, well,

what are we doing wrong? They don't want our
autographs. They don't want to see us. What

what's happening? So, that's all part of the job.
>> Did you ever get any obsessive fans? >> Oh,

very much so. Very, very much so. Some dangerously
so. Again, that's part of the business and and

you have to kind of get round it best way you
feel at the time. >> The show was revamped uh

in 1992. Um were you ever asked to be a part
of it? Would you have done it if you if you'd

been asked >> in 1992? Um >> it was by
Roger Price. >> That's right. Uh in 1992,

I probably wouldn't have No, honestly. Um because
I saw the formats because I was approached and I

basically thought personally I couldn't see its
way through and of course it only did one series,

didn't it? >> It did three. >> It did one one main
one. I know they did 13, eight, and an eight and

that was it. >> It's generally considered that
it didn't work. Um but physically everyone I've

met has changed very very little and
you've changed the least of all. If

uh Roger Price decided, I'd like to reformat
the original >> with the original cast,

would you like to do it again? >> Well, yes,
that that's a different scenario because that

there you've hit the nail on the head. Um, the
reason I feel that the phase 2 was slightly um,

confused as a piece is that like Star
Trek, they should have had like John

and my character and Tim as the old school
linking with the new to to give it a bit

of a comfort cushion so that then it could
go off on its own rather like Star Trek did.

um the Star Trek New Generation still had
the introduction of the older characters,

but then they just fizzled them
out slowly um so that it wasn't

such a shock for the followers of the show.
Whereas with the Tomorrow People stage two,

it was like a completely new fresh look.
And I think that's personally where they

made the mistake. >> Well, I mean the 70s looking
back, I I can't complain because I mean the only

thing I complained about was over work. I mean,
um, I ended up with nervous exhaustion at one

stage and being hospitalized for two and a
half weeks because I literally collapsed on

stage because I couldn't give anymore. That
was my only problem with the 70s. I mean,

I was busy. It was successful. I mean, what more
could you ask for? I mean it was a wonderful

era for me personally and I'll always
remember it with um with great fondness

and being very privileged to be part
of something that was so uniquely

successful in its time. I mean it was a
wonderful experience. >> And how do you

view the the new wave of interest in
it? >> I think it's healthy. I think

it's lovely. Um and like all older things
i.e. things from the past that have been,

you know, resurrected. Um um if it
could be resurrected in a positive way,

I'm all in favor for it. >> Thank you
very much, Michael. >> Thank you, Richard.

[music] [music] Okay. Okay. Well, it's
been about 8 years since we made Beyond

Tomorrow. And in that 8 years, much has
changed with the internet and the growth

in the fan base. There's a lot more Tomorrow
people interest than there was. And I guess

you could say at the center of that is Jackie
Clark, who I'm now with. Jackie is a teacher of

psychology. And I guess you could say she's kind
of running things now. Jackie, um, what was your

interest in Tomorrow People initially?
Was it nostalgia based or was it kind of

the science of it? >> I suppose I'd have
to say it was the science. And when I was

11 and I first saw the show, I remember um
running out and looking in my local library,

what a paras psychologist did and getting
interested in the science, the technology,

the psychic phenomenon and that side and it
did inspire me to become a psychologist and

now I teach it. >> When you meet fans of the
program, do you find they've been inspired

in similar way? What kind of person do
you think makes a tomorrow person fan?

>> I wouldn't say that there's any one type of
tomorrow person fan. Um they sort of come in

all shapes and sizes. You get the there's
a core group that seem to be intellectual

people. There are geneticists and an awful lot
of teachers and people who are perhaps inspired

by Elizabeth from the original series and they
went on to that as their career. Um so you get

this sort of academic body and then you get
people who are very into the nostalgia. Um and

whenever the title sequence starts you get this
sort of zooming graphic and you're taken back

there. you're a child, you're watching it
again. And there were the people that are,

you know, me buying it on DVD because they
remember their childhood. >> Well, I mean,

that's my aspect. I remember when I first saw it,
um, how early color televisions were. I seem to

remember it was a green tint because every rush
home from school, but you couldn't rush home from

school and just put it straight on because
you tell it took 20 minutes to warm up. So,

it uh it would have looked a bit ridiculous
the first 20 minutes. >> Do you have a a

favorite story? >> I would say it has to be Secret
Weapon. >> Why is that? that story. I mean, it's

got a sense of realism to it. It's got
the danger because they're threatened by

the government agents. And I think it's the
thing that could possibly happen if you had

Next Stage of Evolution with all these special
powers. Someone would want to exploit it. Um,

and that sort of gives it that hook. It doesn't
have squeaky voiced aliens and the Galactic Tri,

the Federation who can come and bail them
out. They have to solve the problems for

themselves. >> You think those stories work much
better than me? >> I think bits of rubber. >> Yes,

definitely later. >> Yeah. And
how did you get involved with with

Tomorrow People More in your adult life later
on? >> Um, well, it's funny because I collected

all my things together in a scrapbook when
I was a child and then I put it away in a

box under the bed for many years and never
mentioned to anybody that I remember the

show. And when the internet first started in
the late 1990s, I remember going down to my

college because they had it in the library and
I went downstairs and I sort of looked around

me all apprehensively and I typed into the search
engine tomorrow people and I discovered there were

people out on the internet who remembered.
>> You're not alone. There are others such

as you. >> Exactly. And that's the reaction
lots of fans have. It's wow. I thought no one

remembered but me. And then the fan base was sort
of at that point growing because the new series

had been shown in America. And so I thought,
well, I'm looking at these websites and I've

got materials that no one else has got. So
I knew someone who's a graphic designer at

the time and between us we put together a
website and it was called the scrapbook.

And so all the materials were put out there
and so one thing led to another and then I

I met yourself and you introduced me to Peter
Clark and Nick Young, >> your TV hero. >> Yeah,

he was my hero. >> How did it feel to meet
your TV heroes face to face for the first time?

>> Oh, it was amazing. But I do know that my
heart was pounding at the time. >> Yeah. Well,

I remember you being very nervous Peter. >>
Yeah. >> When you consider the program was

actually made for children, if you put that
same program on now, >> do you think children

would react to it or you think it's just
now too poorly made to stand it? >> Well,

it's funny because I've got lots of
friends in the fan base who have young

children and they've introduced TP to
them and uh they think it's brilliant

and they go around playing jaunting and
they don't see it as being out of place

or out of date. They just see the excitement
and the color and in some ways it has a better

narrative stories. Everything is very fast-paced
these days. Um, and it is slower and kids love

it. >> Well, if you had a chance to meet
Roger Price, um, what would you like to

say to him? What would you like to ask him?
>> There's, you know, thousand1 questions,

but I think the first thing I'd like to say to him
would be thank you from me, but also from everyone

in the fan base because he was inspirational
and very creative man. And um when he sort of he

brought ideas together. He came up with this
home superior next stage of evolution and he

inspired a generation. I think lots of people's
political views are based on things from the show

and it I mean it had pacifist overtones and and
that's affected a lot of people and it did affect

my life a great deal and I know lots of other
people. >> Bearing in mind you saw it when you

were a child as I did and as I said my interest
in it is very much nostalgia based. Um what do

you think of the ' 90s series? Bearing in mind
you've seen it as an adult and not as a child.

Well, I remember initially when it came

on, um, I was at work and I recorded
it on video, rushed home, as you do,

rush home from work this time to watch it and
I thought, "What on earth is this? This isn't

what I remembered now. It's not John and
Elizabeth. There's no lab. There's no Tim,

but it has a lot of very good qualities to it. It
does have a gritty realism, and it doesn't have

the aliens and the Galactic Federation. They have
to think for themselves. and you could still just

even though I was an adult, you could relate to
them and the dilemas. So, the core was the same.

>> Um, and a lot of it was better better special
effects and more international cast. It it has its

own merits and I think it it stands, you know,
up against the original very well. A >> couple

of years ago, um, you put together, I
guess, um, I would call it a convention,

you might call it a party, the the first real
Tomorrow People event solely for itself. Um,

how did that come about? How did you find
that? That was strange really because it

was coming up to 30 years for the show and I
remember being in um the chat channel that we

have where the bands all meet regularly couple
times a week and someone said really we need a

party and we said you know we're all on different
continents how can we have a party and someone

said we know the person who could organize it
Jackie could do it and then they said well come

on you can invite some of the cast and we can
just have a party where they come along. So, um,

I said to my husband, I said, "Do you mind if I do
this?" And he said, "As long as it doesn't cost me

any money." So, I went ahead and it it snowballed
from what was going to be a few people just hire a

restaurant, hire a room. And as you say, it was
similar to a convention, but it was there for the

fans. There was, although there were autographs,
they want autograph signing sessions. It was just

the cast giving their time to be with the fans.
and the atmosphere was electric. And one of the

exciting things was that uh Nigel Rhodess.
He uh he didn't know about it, but we got a

um full page color spread out. We couldn't find
him. >> And a friend of his saw it, phoned him

up and I was at the hotel sort of getting
the preparations ready and the phone rings

and it's Nigel Rose. Can I come to your dinner?
And I'm not going to say no. >> To buy a ticket

and >> he just turned up. um he was in the
area doing uh some sort of guitar festival

or something for his band and he came along
and it added to the evening. The other thing

that was great was that um Philip Gilbert was
there because he's you know no longer with

us. Um >> and for him to meet the boys that
you know he had grown up with and helped out

all those years. Um they thoroughly enjoyed
it. That's the impression I got. And we also

raised money for cancer research which was
great. >> Right. I mean, do you think it will

end there or or are there things planned
for the 35th, 40th anniversary? >> Well,

there are plans for the 35th. >> There's
more to look forward to. >> Yes, there's

a lot more to look forward to. >> Well, I'm sure
anything that pops up in Tomorrow People World,

we'll see your name on it. Thank you very much,
Jackie Clark. >> Thank you, Richard. >> Thank you.

It's 30 years [music and singing] and I can still
recall. The days of it has just [singing] gone.

[music] And though the details seem to fade
away, it leaves a magic living [music] on. I

read the book. I watched the [music] TV [singing]
show. And I'd be running home from school [music]

to settle [singing] down inside my hero's world to

share adventures with [music]
them all. [music] >> [music]

I play the hero in the playground.
[singing] My friends been till the

bell. [music] Then I returned to life as
usual. [music] Saving the knowledge all

was well. And [music] though I'm older, I remember

just how it [music] felt those years
ago. Just like [music] now on the TV

screen now [singing] that I got to know the
meaning [music and singing] of tomorrow.

[music] >> [singing] >> Oh,

I'm [singing] more than I know. [music]
Oh [music] my god. [singing] [music]

[music] [singing] >> [music] >>

more than [music] [singing] All I know. [music]