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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.BZ 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.BZ 3 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,119 What was she saying? 4 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,319 - We have found sufficient grounds to charge 5 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,159 five adult males with sexual assault. 6 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,180 - Five former Canadian World Junior hockey players 7 00:01:21,180 --> 00:01:24,420 are accused of sexually assaulting a woman in 2018. 8 00:01:25,099 --> 00:01:26,840 This is a pretty unique case 9 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,719 because hockey has such a special place 10 00:01:29,719 --> 00:01:30,799 in Canadian society. 11 00:01:31,819 --> 00:01:33,859 - This trial is about consent. 12 00:01:34,259 --> 00:01:37,000 - This was her chance to tell her story 13 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,740 and to hold people accountable for what happened in that night. 14 00:01:40,079 --> 00:01:42,819 - One pulls her ponytail and another picks her up. 15 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,259 And you could see they're all sort of sharing her 16 00:01:45,259 --> 00:01:46,259 in that moment. 17 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,979 - I can tell you right now, there's not one single woman 18 00:01:49,979 --> 00:01:51,539 that I know that would want 19 00:01:51,539 --> 00:01:53,680 to be in a room in that situation. 20 00:01:54,179 --> 00:01:57,719 - At one point, Brett Howden texts Taylor Raddysh, 21 00:01:58,340 --> 00:02:01,760 "Dude, I'm so happy I left when all the shit went down." 22 00:02:02,380 --> 00:02:03,960 My job is to report on facts 23 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,480 that I see, and so, the facts are unbelievable. 24 00:02:23,171 --> 00:02:26,276 Well, I'm in London because tomorrow, 25 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,920 five players go on trial for sexual assault. 26 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,720 We are gonna be here Monday to Friday, every day, 27 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,480 for the next couple months, just trying to do our best 28 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,340 to portray it accurately and fairly. 29 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,040 And then, of course, 30 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:44,960 we'll be here for the verdict. 31 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,460 It certainly, it's interesting that this case is unfolding 32 00:02:50,460 --> 00:02:54,280 in London because this is like 33 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,340 any Hockey Town, Canada. Right? 34 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,220 It's a town where the London Knights 35 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,900 are such a high profile and powerful local organization, 36 00:03:04,299 --> 00:03:05,860 with so much influence. 37 00:03:07,340 --> 00:03:11,300 You see that when you, you know, walk downtown, 38 00:03:11,799 --> 00:03:15,659 in the moments before a playoff game. 39 00:03:15,719 --> 00:03:17,300 Like, the London Knights are perennial winners 40 00:03:17,300 --> 00:03:18,740 in the Ontario Hockey League. 41 00:03:18,740 --> 00:03:22,460 And again, the fact that the trial is happening here, 42 00:03:23,060 --> 00:03:25,120 you could make an argument that, in a way, like, 43 00:03:25,300 --> 00:03:27,380 the culture of junior hockey 44 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,900 is just as much on trial here as the five players are. 45 00:03:35,550 --> 00:03:36,970 For 100 years, 46 00:03:37,290 --> 00:03:38,650 as long as hockey's been around, 47 00:03:39,250 --> 00:03:41,810 it has been something that Canadians worship. 48 00:03:42,330 --> 00:03:44,250 In a lot of ways, it's like the church itself. 49 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,579 And these young players who come through 50 00:03:51,579 --> 00:03:54,760 junior hockey teams live a life of privilege. 51 00:03:55,239 --> 00:03:57,919 They often have not been held accountable. 52 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:00,799 And people who work in the game 53 00:04:01,499 --> 00:04:04,119 will say this happens everywhere in society, 54 00:04:04,339 --> 00:04:08,260 not just hockey. However, it does feel like 55 00:04:08,260 --> 00:04:10,279 there's a lot of incidents in hockey. 56 00:04:10,700 --> 00:04:11,700 - If I had a daughter, 57 00:04:11,940 --> 00:04:13,759 I would never let her date a hockey player. 58 00:04:13,759 --> 00:04:19,759 In early 2021, I remember reading a story 59 00:04:20,180 --> 00:04:24,800 that was published by a radio station in Chicago. 60 00:04:25,539 --> 00:04:29,260 And the story detailed how a player who had been 61 00:04:29,260 --> 00:04:31,120 with the Chicago Blackhawks in 2010, 62 00:04:31,580 --> 00:04:33,219 alleged that he was sexually assaulted 63 00:04:33,219 --> 00:04:34,959 by one of his coaches on that team. 64 00:04:35,219 --> 00:04:37,800 So, I wound up calling the radio station and said, 65 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,820 "Hey, I'd like to do a follow on your story. 66 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,099 I'd like to see this document, this lawsuit." 67 00:04:42,099 --> 00:04:43,659 And they sent it to me. 68 00:04:44,220 --> 00:04:45,980 And so, throughout the course of that summer, 69 00:04:46,219 --> 00:04:49,459 I wound up doing almost 50 stories on this case. 70 00:04:49,940 --> 00:04:51,960 And the story turned out to be one 71 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,200 where it was clear the Blackhawks wanted to turn 72 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,100 a blind eye to this allegation. 73 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:58,819 They did not want to investigate. 74 00:04:59,299 --> 00:05:00,880 All the players in the locker-room 75 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:01,880 knew it was happening. 76 00:05:02,159 --> 00:05:04,560 And that player, who is Kyle Beach, 77 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,700 came on TSN and did an interview with us 78 00:05:07,700 --> 00:05:09,159 that ran almost 28 minutes. 79 00:05:09,159 --> 00:05:10,520 - I am a survivor. 80 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:12,760 And I know I'm not alone. 81 00:05:14,340 --> 00:05:18,320 And I buried this for 10 years, 11 years. 82 00:05:20,039 --> 00:05:22,959 And it's destroyed me from the inside out. 83 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,799 And I hope that this entire process 84 00:05:26,799 --> 00:05:28,959 can make a systematic change 85 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,500 to make sure this never happens again. 86 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,519 - The day after we did that interview with Kyle Beach, 87 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,159 my emails and my direct messages 88 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,680 started blowing up with other people 89 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,000 wanting to tell their stories. 90 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,900 And in the four years since we did that interview 91 00:05:45,900 --> 00:05:48,659 with Kyle Beach, a week has not gone by 92 00:05:48,659 --> 00:05:51,240 that I have not received tips 93 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,620 about abuse and harassment in Canadian sports. 94 00:05:58,994 --> 00:06:02,013 Well, this case started when I was working on a soccer, 95 00:06:02,146 --> 00:06:06,275 and I was zipping around in Belgrade, scouting locations. 96 00:06:06,409 --> 00:06:07,670 And my phone rang. 97 00:06:07,949 --> 00:06:09,349 I didn't know who the caller was. 98 00:06:09,889 --> 00:06:12,310 And so, I didn't pick it up, and they, you know, rang again, 99 00:06:12,310 --> 00:06:14,990 and rang again and rang again, and finally I answered it. 100 00:06:15,190 --> 00:06:17,070 And the person told me 101 00:06:17,070 --> 00:06:18,730 I need to get to London, Ontario, 102 00:06:18,970 --> 00:06:20,130 and pull this file, 103 00:06:20,870 --> 00:06:24,070 because it was really important to sports in Canada 104 00:06:24,070 --> 00:06:26,110 and to the future of Canadian hockey, 105 00:06:26,210 --> 00:06:27,750 and I needed to know what was going on. 106 00:06:28,510 --> 00:06:29,690 And so I did. 107 00:06:30,590 --> 00:06:33,090 And I remember being shocked by what I was reading, 108 00:06:33,090 --> 00:06:35,210 and forwarding it to my teammates at TSN, 109 00:06:35,510 --> 00:06:37,890 basically saying, "Brace yourself. 110 00:06:38,709 --> 00:06:41,909 The stuff that's in this lawsuit is really bad." 111 00:06:45,850 --> 00:06:48,950 A woman, who is referred to in court documents as E.M., 112 00:06:50,030 --> 00:06:52,590 had filed a $3.5 million lawsuit 113 00:06:52,590 --> 00:06:55,670 against Hockey Canada, the Canadian Hockey League, 114 00:06:56,070 --> 00:06:58,890 and eight players who were referred to as John Does. 115 00:06:59,470 --> 00:07:02,530 And the allegations in that lawsuit were horrible, 116 00:07:02,830 --> 00:07:06,150 outlining what she said was a sexual assault 117 00:07:06,150 --> 00:07:08,950 that took place in a hotel, here in London, 118 00:07:09,410 --> 00:07:11,630 over the course of one evening 119 00:07:11,630 --> 00:07:15,510 and into early morning in June 2018 120 00:07:16,050 --> 00:07:19,810 after a golf and gala event that Hockey Canada hosted. 121 00:07:21,210 --> 00:07:22,950 In a statement released last night, 122 00:07:23,070 --> 00:07:25,470 Hockey Canada said, "As soon as it became aware 123 00:07:25,470 --> 00:07:26,890 of this matter in 2018, 124 00:07:27,430 --> 00:07:30,450 it contacted local police authorities to inform them." 125 00:07:30,930 --> 00:07:32,410 - I think the initial police investigation 126 00:07:32,410 --> 00:07:34,330 could be best described as rudimentary. 127 00:07:34,970 --> 00:07:37,270 I'm not aware of any cell phones being seized 128 00:07:37,270 --> 00:07:39,290 at that point, any court orders, any searches, 129 00:07:40,010 --> 00:07:41,490 any really in-depth inquiry. 130 00:07:41,490 --> 00:07:44,610 I think it was more of taking E.M.'s statements 131 00:07:44,610 --> 00:07:49,030 and almost placating her with some activity. 132 00:07:50,170 --> 00:07:52,070 - There was 20 players on that team, 133 00:07:52,810 --> 00:07:55,650 and the police closed their investigation 134 00:07:56,350 --> 00:07:57,710 after interviewing four. 135 00:07:58,750 --> 00:07:59,950 Two of them in person. 136 00:08:24,650 --> 00:08:26,770 Well, it was by February 2019, 137 00:08:27,349 --> 00:08:29,470 the police made the call there'd be no charges laid. 138 00:08:29,870 --> 00:08:31,989 And there was a period of sort of reflection 139 00:08:31,989 --> 00:08:34,750 and regression. And ultimately, 140 00:08:34,910 --> 00:08:37,549 E.M. reappeared and wanted to seek accountability. 141 00:08:37,750 --> 00:08:39,429 The primary route, my recommendation, 142 00:08:39,709 --> 00:08:40,709 is through lawsuit. 143 00:08:41,030 --> 00:08:43,329 And she voluntarily took a polygraph 144 00:08:43,329 --> 00:08:45,370 with respect to her statement of what happened that night, 145 00:08:45,370 --> 00:08:46,389 and passed it. 146 00:08:48,049 --> 00:08:49,470 - The polygraph process takes about 147 00:08:49,470 --> 00:08:50,709 two-and-a-half to three hours. 148 00:08:51,188 --> 00:08:52,850 It's at 90 to 95% accurate. 149 00:08:53,448 --> 00:08:56,549 I was involved initially on the civil side. 150 00:08:56,789 --> 00:09:01,230 Did a polygraph for the victim, E.M. 151 00:09:01,949 --> 00:09:03,910 I read the synopsis, prepared the questions. 152 00:09:03,910 --> 00:09:05,970 Based on that, I went to their office, 153 00:09:06,329 --> 00:09:07,329 conducted the test there. 154 00:09:07,910 --> 00:09:09,870 I came to the conclusion that... 155 00:09:09,870 --> 00:09:10,870 that she was being truthful. 156 00:09:11,289 --> 00:09:13,689 - Her result was neither deceptive nor unreliable. 157 00:09:13,789 --> 00:09:15,649 It was well into the reliable, truthful zone. 158 00:09:20,740 --> 00:09:23,759 - Hockey Canada came on pretty strong and fast 159 00:09:23,759 --> 00:09:25,979 and resolved the case, I think, within 34 days. 160 00:09:26,420 --> 00:09:28,540 So, a civil lawsuit was the last option, 161 00:09:28,620 --> 00:09:29,620 not the first. 162 00:09:29,940 --> 00:09:31,540 And I think that should be crystal clear. 163 00:09:35,289 --> 00:09:37,850 E.M. wanted this very private, 164 00:09:38,690 --> 00:09:42,110 and I was a little surprised at how quick it leaked out. 165 00:09:43,930 --> 00:09:46,890 That reporting really jarred Canadians. 166 00:09:47,170 --> 00:09:49,750 If you remember, it led to a parliamentary hearing. 167 00:09:50,350 --> 00:09:53,310 It led to complete upheaval of Hockey Canada, 168 00:09:53,830 --> 00:09:56,190 where some of the most senior members 169 00:09:56,190 --> 00:09:58,450 of that organization were forced out. 170 00:09:59,090 --> 00:10:02,170 And there was outrage when Canadians learned 171 00:10:02,170 --> 00:10:05,830 that Hockey Canada had maintained this slush fund 172 00:10:06,250 --> 00:10:08,470 to pay off sexual assault allegations, 173 00:10:08,890 --> 00:10:11,650 which was kept a secret from the Canadian public. 174 00:10:11,930 --> 00:10:15,550 - It settled 21 sexual misconduct claims since 1989, 175 00:10:16,210 --> 00:10:18,629 totalling close to $9 million in compensation. 176 00:10:21,649 --> 00:10:25,090 - The story had broken around May of that year. 177 00:10:25,650 --> 00:10:28,970 So, once that hit the media, I think our service just kind of 178 00:10:28,970 --> 00:10:31,149 wanted to make sure that everything was done 179 00:10:31,149 --> 00:10:32,429 as well as it could have been. 180 00:10:32,610 --> 00:10:34,949 So, the day I was assigned the case, 181 00:10:35,430 --> 00:10:39,510 I reviewed it that morning, and then I called her. 182 00:10:39,570 --> 00:10:42,290 I wanted her to know from me that we were going to be 183 00:10:42,290 --> 00:10:43,690 reopening the investigation. 184 00:10:44,410 --> 00:10:45,410 She was upset. 185 00:10:46,350 --> 00:10:49,010 She said that she thought that this phase 186 00:10:49,010 --> 00:10:51,970 was going to be done. With the civil trial being over, 187 00:10:52,090 --> 00:10:53,990 she thought that she was going to be moving on. 188 00:10:54,490 --> 00:10:56,829 So, I think this was hard for her, yeah. 189 00:10:57,189 --> 00:11:00,110 My assessment was that more could have been done. 190 00:11:00,429 --> 00:11:02,470 I found some gaps in the investigation 191 00:11:02,470 --> 00:11:04,069 that I thought could be filled. 192 00:11:04,370 --> 00:11:06,970 And I thought that there was just more information out there 193 00:11:06,970 --> 00:11:09,990 that could have helped us 194 00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:12,970 come to a more informed conclusion, 195 00:11:12,970 --> 00:11:13,970 if that makes sense. 196 00:11:15,509 --> 00:11:17,710 - We begin with breaking news. 197 00:11:17,710 --> 00:11:20,470 London Police are reopening a criminal investigation 198 00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:23,289 related to the 2018 sexual assault allegations 199 00:11:23,289 --> 00:11:26,449 involving former CHL and World Juniors players. 200 00:11:27,630 --> 00:11:29,050 - I wanted to interview everybody. 201 00:11:29,449 --> 00:11:31,130 'Cause the thing about hockey players 202 00:11:31,130 --> 00:11:32,930 is that teammates talk, right? 203 00:11:33,510 --> 00:11:35,069 So, I knew even if some players 204 00:11:35,069 --> 00:11:36,390 didn't have firsthand knowledge, 205 00:11:36,449 --> 00:11:38,270 I knew not every player was in the room that night, 206 00:11:38,529 --> 00:11:40,750 I just knew there was more information out there, right? 207 00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:42,990 So, obviously, I wanted to know 208 00:11:42,990 --> 00:11:45,350 who was in the room, sort of who did what, 209 00:11:45,430 --> 00:11:46,790 who said what, who saw what? 210 00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:49,210 But I also wanted to know who heard what. 211 00:11:49,390 --> 00:11:51,690 I quickly formed grounds to believe that 212 00:11:51,690 --> 00:11:53,610 a criminal offence had been committed, 213 00:11:54,169 --> 00:11:56,889 and the players and their lawyers 214 00:11:56,889 --> 00:11:58,889 learned about that because they found out 215 00:11:58,889 --> 00:12:01,889 that we had written warrants to obtain certain information. 216 00:12:02,310 --> 00:12:04,910 So, they chose not to cooperate with the investigation, 217 00:12:05,089 --> 00:12:06,910 which is, they're well within the right to do that. 218 00:12:07,269 --> 00:12:09,009 But that did put up some walls for us. 219 00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:13,769 Not long after the event, some players had changed phones. 220 00:12:13,769 --> 00:12:16,089 So whether there was any ill intent, 221 00:12:16,809 --> 00:12:20,269 whether they were doing it for any particular reason, 222 00:12:20,370 --> 00:12:23,150 or maybe, you know, their cell phone plan was up. 223 00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:25,670 We don't know. And then I came up with 224 00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:27,589 my assessment, which was that I did feel 225 00:12:27,589 --> 00:12:30,270 that those five players committed sexual assault 226 00:12:31,470 --> 00:12:32,769 that night, and then I gave it over to the Crown. 227 00:12:34,569 --> 00:12:36,670 And it wasn't until January 2024 228 00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:41,189 that we learned that five of the players involved in this 229 00:12:41,189 --> 00:12:42,210 were going to be charged. 230 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:49,920 - I want to extend 231 00:12:50,420 --> 00:12:52,780 on behalf of the London Police Service 232 00:12:53,339 --> 00:12:56,439 my sincerest apology to the victim... 233 00:12:58,500 --> 00:12:59,879 to her family... 234 00:13:00,939 --> 00:13:02,759 for the amount of time 235 00:13:04,799 --> 00:13:08,219 that it has taken to reach this point. 236 00:13:09,479 --> 00:13:12,819 - Rick Westhead, he uncovered this story 237 00:13:13,099 --> 00:13:15,399 and he stayed on this story. 238 00:13:15,620 --> 00:13:18,440 And I think he gets a lot of credit for breaking the story, 239 00:13:18,579 --> 00:13:21,359 and not enough for just being dogged 240 00:13:21,359 --> 00:13:22,420 and seeing it through. 241 00:13:22,819 --> 00:13:24,819 It's a good lesson to all of us 242 00:13:24,819 --> 00:13:27,660 that the hard stories 243 00:13:27,660 --> 00:13:29,579 are the ones that need to be told. 244 00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:33,160 - Journalism has taken some punches in recent years, 245 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:33,639 right? The... 246 00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:37,319 The public trust of what we do 247 00:13:37,319 --> 00:13:38,540 has never been lower. 248 00:13:39,459 --> 00:13:41,179 There's disinformation everywhere. 249 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,639 There's social media pressures that, 250 00:13:45,639 --> 00:13:47,740 where some of them are self-inflicted, 251 00:13:47,859 --> 00:13:51,719 where people feel like they have to chase retweets and likes, 252 00:13:51,719 --> 00:13:54,119 and follower counts, and you know, 253 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,940 do things for the algorithm. 254 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:58,400 But... 255 00:13:59,180 --> 00:14:02,240 I think that when you look at stories 256 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,959 that take a real investment of resources and time, 257 00:14:05,259 --> 00:14:07,879 and that's this story, this has taken a long time 258 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:08,880 and a lot of resources, 259 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:11,440 there's a public good in this. 260 00:14:11,879 --> 00:14:14,539 And the public is served by having media 261 00:14:14,919 --> 00:14:16,219 that do take their time, 262 00:14:16,219 --> 00:14:18,599 and that are invested in doing journalism, 263 00:14:18,599 --> 00:14:21,159 and that are committed to holding 264 00:14:21,679 --> 00:14:23,339 powerful organizations accountable 265 00:14:23,339 --> 00:14:25,199 and speaking truth to power. 266 00:14:25,879 --> 00:14:26,879 It's still important. 267 00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:39,780 First one here. 268 00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:42,940 You want to be in the courtroom because... 269 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,340 what we do as journalists is more than write down 270 00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:49,080 what people say, it's observing. 271 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,360 It's watching the mannerisms of jurors. 272 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,540 It's watching how they respond to testimony. 273 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,100 It's watching body language. 274 00:14:56,580 --> 00:14:59,180 The judges, the defendants, 275 00:14:59,379 --> 00:15:01,100 are they sitting up straight in their chairs? 276 00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:02,780 Are they talking a lot to their lawyers? 277 00:15:02,940 --> 00:15:05,700 Are they taking notes? It's worth getting up early for, 278 00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:08,040 for sure, to make sure that you're going to be able 279 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,620 to document that in person. 280 00:15:13,660 --> 00:15:15,800 - It's really a unique case 281 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,240 as it relates to sexual assault cases 282 00:15:19,939 --> 00:15:23,319 and the impact on communities. 283 00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:26,699 - The Crown Attorney on this case, 284 00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:31,040 Meaghan Cunningham, is the chair of a sexual violence group 285 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,699 for the province of Ontario. 286 00:15:33,020 --> 00:15:34,500 The Defence lawyers in this case 287 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:36,760 are the best lawyers in the province 288 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,560 when it comes to defending these types of cases. 289 00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:43,199 So, this is like the best of the best in the legal world. 290 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,500 It's going to be a nuanced, heavyweight fight. 291 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,160 The standard of proof for a criminal sexual assault trial 292 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,100 is really high. This is a jury trial, 293 00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:01,800 and so, that means that for these players 294 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:02,800 to be convicted, 295 00:16:03,340 --> 00:16:06,980 each of those 12 jurors is going to have to believe 296 00:16:07,540 --> 00:16:10,699 that this case has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. 297 00:16:13,550 --> 00:16:15,849 - To be crystal clear, there's no money in this 298 00:16:15,849 --> 00:16:18,069 for E.M., her civil case is done and gone. 299 00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:19,349 There's no ability to re-sue. 300 00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:21,930 The players and the leagues and everything are all 301 00:16:21,930 --> 00:16:25,009 signed off. So, this is strictly a criminal prosecution 302 00:16:25,009 --> 00:16:26,209 with no ulterior motive, 303 00:16:26,370 --> 00:16:28,109 and I think that people need to understand that. 304 00:16:29,889 --> 00:16:33,389 - You know, she didn't have to prove anything to anybody. 305 00:16:33,609 --> 00:16:35,349 Her family loved her, believed her. 306 00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:38,409 She felt that this was the right thing to do. 307 00:16:38,889 --> 00:16:41,750 She felt she should stand up for others 308 00:16:42,409 --> 00:16:43,529 and for herself, 309 00:16:44,069 --> 00:16:46,889 and hold those responsible accountable. 310 00:16:48,189 --> 00:16:52,049 - It's not how much she drank. It's not what she was wearing. 311 00:16:52,890 --> 00:16:55,490 It's not the type of guy 312 00:16:55,490 --> 00:16:57,449 she wanted to have sex with that night. 313 00:16:57,810 --> 00:16:59,170 This trial is about consent. 314 00:17:00,010 --> 00:17:03,209 And did the accused get consent 315 00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:05,629 from her for each sexual act? 316 00:17:05,730 --> 00:17:09,089 Did she give consent freely and enthusiastically? 317 00:17:10,430 --> 00:17:12,848 And that is what this trial is about. 318 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,359 Yeah, well, we're back in court tomorrow morning 319 00:17:17,740 --> 00:17:19,940 at 9:30, and we will hear the government, 320 00:17:20,140 --> 00:17:22,180 the Crown Prosecutor, you know, 321 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,259 detail the government's case 322 00:17:24,259 --> 00:17:25,920 against these five co-defendants. 323 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,480 Well, today was a very long day. 324 00:17:30,260 --> 00:17:33,040 It was just really interesting to watch, you know, 325 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,040 kind of firsthand how the justice system works. 326 00:17:36,460 --> 00:17:38,860 Today was also interesting because it was the first time 327 00:17:38,860 --> 00:17:41,980 that we'd actually seen all of these five 328 00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:45,500 hockey players, co-defendants, 329 00:17:46,020 --> 00:17:48,440 in a courtroom together at the same time. 330 00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:52,140 And so, we saw Michael McLeod come in, 331 00:17:52,819 --> 00:17:56,040 you know, a former prospect with the New Jersey Devils. 332 00:17:56,540 --> 00:17:58,420 You know, we saw Carter Hart come in, 333 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,780 the goalie for the Philadelphia Flyers, 334 00:18:00,780 --> 00:18:03,280 not too long ago. There was Dillon Dubé, 335 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,720 who was the captain of that 2018 World Juniors team 336 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,800 for Canada and a player in the Calgary Flames system. 337 00:18:12,460 --> 00:18:16,220 And then you had Cal Foote, you know, another pro prospect. 338 00:18:17,180 --> 00:18:19,420 And Alex Formenton, 339 00:18:20,140 --> 00:18:22,760 who had been a forward with the Ottawa Senators. 340 00:18:23,540 --> 00:18:26,400 So, you know, all those players came in 341 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,560 clean-shaven, wearing dark suits 342 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:31,920 and white dress shirts, 343 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:34,120 you know, looking... 344 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,120 looking every bit like the kind of players 345 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,920 that we see walking into hockey rinks 346 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,360 with a cup of coffee before important NHL playoff games. 347 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:47,420 Pretty striking difference, though, 348 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:48,440 where they were going today. 349 00:18:49,660 --> 00:18:51,020 It's hard to imagine 350 00:18:51,820 --> 00:18:54,000 what it feels like to know that your, 351 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,060 you know, your freedom is on the line, 352 00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,740 that your life's hanging in the balance, 353 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,240 that you could be found guilty of a crime and go to prison. 354 00:19:14,860 --> 00:19:16,880 We've been here before with hockey 355 00:19:17,260 --> 00:19:20,160 and with incidents that shouldn't happen. 356 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,460 And every time something happens that's really bad, 357 00:19:24,460 --> 00:19:26,360 there's a promise like, oh, we've got to make sure 358 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:27,440 it never happens again. 359 00:19:28,459 --> 00:19:32,620 And then, you know, I wonder if 360 00:19:32,620 --> 00:19:36,260 people really have followed through on these promises 361 00:19:36,260 --> 00:19:40,080 to make change and improve the safety measures? 362 00:19:41,060 --> 00:19:44,440 Because the news cycle moves fast 363 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,820 and people's attention, you know, 364 00:19:46,820 --> 00:19:48,800 shifts to the next thing so quickly. 365 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,340 So, the window to try to affect change 366 00:19:53,340 --> 00:19:56,000 and try to like, convince the federal government, 367 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,900 for instance, to do a better job 368 00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:01,440 at holding sports organizations accountable, 369 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,220 that window is not... not very big. 370 00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:18,140 We're going to meet today with Olivier Dubois. 371 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,880 He's the captain of the Sherbrooke team 372 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,820 in the Quebec Maritime Junior Hockey League. 373 00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:26,740 And he's going to talk to us about his experiences 374 00:20:26,740 --> 00:20:30,280 playing junior hockey and how he... 375 00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:35,100 is trying to make the game better for young players 376 00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:36,300 that are coming after him. 377 00:20:36,380 --> 00:20:37,980 - Hey. - Good morning. Bon matin. 378 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:39,600 - How are you? - Nice to see you. 379 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:40,680 - Yeah. 380 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,220 - How are you today? - Great. 381 00:20:42,380 --> 00:20:44,340 Good. Great, great, you? - Thank you. 382 00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:46,100 - That's my billet house. 383 00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:47,560 - This is the billet house, eh? - Yeah. 384 00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:49,300 It's a big, beautiful place. 385 00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:50,640 - This is where you spend all your time sleeping. 386 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,580 - Yeah. And eating. - And eating. 387 00:20:52,580 --> 00:20:54,460 The two things hockey players do well. 388 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:55,560 - Yeah, really. 389 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:57,970 I've played hockey my whole life, 390 00:20:57,970 --> 00:21:00,940 basically, since I was like, two years old. 391 00:21:00,940 --> 00:21:03,720 When I grew up, it was always all about hockey. 392 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,280 And I entered the league when I was 17 393 00:21:06,333 --> 00:21:09,486 in Rouyn-Noranda, and then it's been three years 394 00:21:09,540 --> 00:21:10,600 since I'm in Sherbrooke. 395 00:21:10,980 --> 00:21:13,019 It's hard to describe how difficult that is 396 00:21:13,020 --> 00:21:14,980 when you go away when you're 16 or 17. 397 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,580 Maybe you're not even really shaving yet, 398 00:21:17,580 --> 00:21:20,420 and you're playing with guys who are 20, who are men. 399 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,880 - Yeah, it's... the gap, 400 00:21:23,140 --> 00:21:27,140 it's only four or five years, but at this time of our life, 401 00:21:27,140 --> 00:21:29,960 it's a big difference. When you're 16, 17, you... 402 00:21:30,980 --> 00:21:34,080 you don't know nothing about how the cues work 403 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:35,900 and how lives work, even. 404 00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:38,560 - Can I ask you a little bit about some of the pressures 405 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,519 that you felt regarding alcohol and girls? 406 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,540 - I didn't drink before, that much. 407 00:21:44,020 --> 00:21:48,700 Um, I was in secondary and didn't have that time. 408 00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:50,900 And I was not a party guy either, so... 409 00:21:50,970 --> 00:21:54,109 But then in Rouyn-Noranda, it was like, 410 00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:56,780 everyone's drunk, so you said, everyone seemed to have fun, 411 00:21:56,780 --> 00:21:59,160 they're drunk, and I'm gonna get drunk too, 412 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,680 to fit with them. So it's, I don't think 413 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,440 it's a, maybe that's... 414 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,900 the pressure you put to yourself just to fit in, 415 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:07,580 to be accepted as a group. 416 00:22:07,580 --> 00:22:11,200 Maybe that's why the pressure is there for drinking. 417 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,100 - What about the attitudes the players had then 418 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:17,180 towards young women, towards girls? 419 00:22:17,460 --> 00:22:20,180 - I think it's a big part of our conversation. 420 00:22:20,180 --> 00:22:22,120 When I entered the league, they told me, 421 00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:24,880 you have a girlfriend, no you don't need a girlfriend, 422 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:25,880 you need to... 423 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,360 to live the life of a hockey QMJ player. 424 00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,140 Live the life of everything. 425 00:22:32,140 --> 00:22:34,460 It's the party, the girls, everything. 426 00:22:34,460 --> 00:22:36,560 But with experience, with maturity, 427 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,720 I feel it's stupid because you're here, 428 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,640 we're here to play hockey and to study. 429 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,840 And when you start focusing on girls, 430 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,980 or whatever the outcome of it, 431 00:22:44,980 --> 00:22:47,960 you focus less on working hard, 432 00:22:48,420 --> 00:22:50,220 performing in school and in hockey. 433 00:22:53,850 --> 00:22:56,810 The part about this trial in London 434 00:22:56,810 --> 00:22:59,070 that I was least excited about 435 00:22:59,709 --> 00:23:01,689 was missing hockey with my buddies 436 00:23:01,689 --> 00:23:03,010 and playing on the weekend, too. 437 00:23:03,310 --> 00:23:05,010 So, this is really going to be nice 438 00:23:05,010 --> 00:23:07,449 to get back and skate a little bit. 439 00:23:11,643 --> 00:23:13,825 Oh! 440 00:23:13,869 --> 00:23:16,230 I grew up in a small town, Brockville, Ontario. 441 00:23:16,629 --> 00:23:19,549 Played AAA up until the age of 16, 442 00:23:19,549 --> 00:23:22,309 where I was lucky enough to go to Ridley College and play. 443 00:23:22,429 --> 00:23:24,569 And then I ended up going to school at Acadia University 444 00:23:24,570 --> 00:23:27,010 to do my undergrad, where I joined the Acadia Axemen 445 00:23:27,010 --> 00:23:28,010 for two years. 446 00:23:30,130 --> 00:23:31,610 What are some of the things you've seen 447 00:23:31,610 --> 00:23:33,070 or heard about? - Well, a lot of people 448 00:23:33,070 --> 00:23:36,630 think that hazing and group cohesion are, 449 00:23:36,897 --> 00:23:37,897 it's the same, right? If you get, 450 00:23:38,035 --> 00:23:41,330 or if you're hazing someone, it's adding to group cohesion, 451 00:23:41,490 --> 00:23:43,350 which is not true at all. - Right. 452 00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:45,790 - There's a complete difference between team building 453 00:23:45,790 --> 00:23:48,109 and hazing. And a lot of players, I feel, 454 00:23:48,109 --> 00:23:50,030 put themselves in these situations, 455 00:23:50,030 --> 00:23:52,490 or agree to get hazed because they just want 456 00:23:52,490 --> 00:23:53,570 to be part of the team, right? 457 00:23:53,849 --> 00:23:56,309 Because players, what they fear the most 458 00:23:56,309 --> 00:23:59,349 is not being part of the group. Yes, exactly. 459 00:23:59,689 --> 00:24:01,649 - What have you seen that way in terms of the guys 460 00:24:01,649 --> 00:24:04,570 that you've played with, how they treat women, 461 00:24:04,570 --> 00:24:05,070 how they deal with women? 462 00:24:05,070 --> 00:24:06,929 - You know, people shrug it off 463 00:24:06,929 --> 00:24:10,050 as locker-room talk or just boys being boys or... 464 00:24:10,050 --> 00:24:12,370 - What kind of talk? - Just about, like, 465 00:24:12,729 --> 00:24:14,449 how many girls you've been with. 466 00:24:14,468 --> 00:24:16,939 Or, you know, like, 467 00:24:16,939 --> 00:24:18,669 did you have sex on the weekend? 468 00:24:18,669 --> 00:24:20,790 Or did you take that girl home from the bar? 469 00:24:21,730 --> 00:24:23,789 Um, and I think that's just so normalized that, 470 00:24:23,917 --> 00:24:26,076 like, people don't actually, like, really, like, 471 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,754 take a second and think back to, like, you know, 472 00:24:28,883 --> 00:24:31,906 we're, you know, degrading and objectifying women. 473 00:24:31,949 --> 00:24:33,969 And then I think it affects, you know, players later on 474 00:24:34,169 --> 00:24:36,169 after they're done hockey, like, how they socialize 475 00:24:36,169 --> 00:24:38,389 with women outside of, you know, the hockey rink. 476 00:24:38,449 --> 00:24:41,230 - Have you heard, like, in the context of talking 477 00:24:41,230 --> 00:24:45,049 about women, this phrase, like, "the kill count", 478 00:24:45,529 --> 00:24:48,730 referring to how many women somebody's slept with? 479 00:24:48,949 --> 00:24:50,709 - Yeah, that's a large part of the game. 480 00:24:51,329 --> 00:24:53,329 Is, it's almost like a hierarchy, right? 481 00:24:53,409 --> 00:24:55,050 The more girls you slept with, 482 00:24:55,070 --> 00:24:56,610 the more kind of respect you get, 483 00:24:57,809 --> 00:25:00,350 which is just insane to think about. 484 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:01,870 Like, that's kind of like how it runs. 485 00:25:02,669 --> 00:25:05,389 People don't think that it's actually something, 486 00:25:06,009 --> 00:25:07,230 like a cause for concern. 487 00:25:07,429 --> 00:25:09,770 If we don't talk about it, then nothing's going to change, 488 00:25:09,770 --> 00:25:12,190 and we're going to continue to, you know, 489 00:25:12,190 --> 00:25:15,149 see these sexual assault allegations, these hazing, 490 00:25:15,330 --> 00:25:16,669 these abuse charges. 491 00:25:22,350 --> 00:25:24,189 - Just days after it started, 492 00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:26,590 an Ontario judge declared a mistrial. 493 00:25:27,490 --> 00:25:30,370 The Crown made their opening statement, 494 00:25:30,750 --> 00:25:34,050 and it was, I thought, like, a very strong opening statement. 495 00:25:34,589 --> 00:25:38,169 And then we were all dismissed for lunch. 496 00:25:38,369 --> 00:25:40,589 And there's, you know, there's limited options 497 00:25:40,590 --> 00:25:42,070 you can go to for lunch. 498 00:25:42,330 --> 00:25:44,730 But there's like, this crowded marketplace. 499 00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:46,709 When we came back from lunch, 500 00:25:47,090 --> 00:25:48,990 the judge said something to the effect of, 501 00:25:48,990 --> 00:25:50,830 something happened at the lunch break 502 00:25:50,830 --> 00:25:52,790 that we're going to need to address. 503 00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:57,230 - You know, one of the lawyers bumped into a juror 504 00:25:57,230 --> 00:25:59,790 at a market that's right around the corner from the courthouse 505 00:25:59,790 --> 00:26:01,969 over the lunch hour, and they had some sort 506 00:26:01,969 --> 00:26:04,630 of conversation, and then that blew up. 507 00:26:05,009 --> 00:26:08,269 - She was behind the attorney in line. 508 00:26:08,850 --> 00:26:10,429 The attorney turns to her 509 00:26:10,850 --> 00:26:13,110 and says something to the effect of, 510 00:26:13,169 --> 00:26:15,769 "There's a lot of head nodding this morning." 511 00:26:16,169 --> 00:26:19,449 And so anyways, this juror tells her friend on the jury, 512 00:26:20,409 --> 00:26:24,869 That juror is like, "Wow, that doesn't sound proper." 513 00:26:25,949 --> 00:26:29,590 - The judge determined that the jury pool 514 00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:31,889 had been tainted because they had shared 515 00:26:31,889 --> 00:26:33,790 with one another what these lawyers 516 00:26:34,610 --> 00:26:36,290 allegedly did in the market. 517 00:26:37,409 --> 00:26:41,830 I just think it goes to show how easily a jury pool 518 00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:44,709 can be tainted or a juror can have the wrong impression. 519 00:26:48,350 --> 00:26:51,330 - The woman at the centre of a high-profile trial 520 00:26:51,330 --> 00:26:54,189 of five former World Junior hockey players 521 00:26:54,189 --> 00:26:57,169 testified today about the night in 2018 522 00:26:57,529 --> 00:26:59,869 when she says she was sexually assaulted. 523 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,440 - Her first couple of days were incredibly compelling, 524 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,800 and I found her to be a very credible witness. 525 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,160 And part of the reason I feel that way 526 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,240 is I was surprised with how upfront and transparent 527 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,200 she was about what she did not know 528 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,580 and what she did not remember. 529 00:27:21,180 --> 00:27:23,100 She was very forthright about saying, 530 00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:24,540 "I don't know who that was." 531 00:27:25,059 --> 00:27:27,400 "I'm not sure about that." "I don't recall." 532 00:27:30,250 --> 00:27:33,170 - She just wanted to get her story out there, 533 00:27:33,269 --> 00:27:36,789 her truth out there, which I know 534 00:27:36,866 --> 00:27:39,886 Justice Carroccia didn't like, but um... 535 00:27:39,924 --> 00:27:41,627 We didn't know what to expect. You never know what to expect 536 00:27:41,705 --> 00:27:43,718 from a victim when it comes to testifying. 537 00:27:43,796 --> 00:27:46,776 But, yeah, she blew me away. 538 00:27:50,299 --> 00:27:54,119 - Well, this is downtown London. This is Richmond Street. 539 00:27:54,699 --> 00:27:58,000 And on the night of June 18th, 2018, 540 00:27:58,860 --> 00:28:03,159 Hockey Canada gathered here with members of Canada's 541 00:28:03,159 --> 00:28:04,600 2018 World Junior team 542 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,460 to celebrate their gold medal 543 00:28:06,460 --> 00:28:09,200 and to give the players championship rings. 544 00:28:10,159 --> 00:28:11,540 When the ceremony was over, 545 00:28:11,980 --> 00:28:13,520 the players went back to the hotel 546 00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:15,680 and then went out to party. 547 00:28:16,540 --> 00:28:19,440 So, the players came here 548 00:28:19,959 --> 00:28:21,880 to Jack's Bar across the street. 549 00:28:22,639 --> 00:28:24,320 There was a call made ahead of time 550 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,880 so they wouldn't have to wait on line. 551 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,260 So, but the Team Canada players came in, 552 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:30,120 skipped the line, and went right in. 553 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,819 So, the surveillance video footage shows that 554 00:28:32,961 --> 00:28:35,676 they got here around 11:30, 555 00:28:35,771 --> 00:28:37,772 roughly the same time that E.M. arrived 556 00:28:37,867 --> 00:28:40,010 in the bar with her friends. 557 00:28:40,059 --> 00:28:42,639 - You know, this isn't some fan of hockey at any level. 558 00:28:42,639 --> 00:28:46,040 It's really just coincidence that these are the people 559 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,620 that, you know, she ran into, or they ran into her. 560 00:28:50,220 --> 00:28:53,399 - She was going out dancing with some of her colleagues, 561 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,040 new workers. She was feeling a little bit nervous. 562 00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:59,899 So, she said she had two Mike's Hard Lemonade at home. 563 00:29:00,459 --> 00:29:01,940 And then when she got here, 564 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,600 was pretty aggressive with her drinking. 565 00:29:05,620 --> 00:29:08,480 - I mean, it gave us an idea of how many drinks E.M. had, 566 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,980 and it also, it corroborated a lot of what she told us. 567 00:29:12,269 --> 00:29:15,879 The surveillance video shows that the players 568 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,220 were dancing with E.M., 569 00:29:18,940 --> 00:29:21,780 you know, on a very crowded, packed dance floor. 570 00:29:22,019 --> 00:29:24,339 - There's this particularly haunting footage 571 00:29:25,139 --> 00:29:28,139 where she sort of ping-pongs between the different men. 572 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,800 They're circling her on the dance floor. 573 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,380 One pulls her ponytail, another slaps her buttocks, 574 00:29:33,380 --> 00:29:35,760 and another picks her up. And you could see 575 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,580 they're all sort of sharing her in that moment. 576 00:29:39,740 --> 00:29:42,500 It's like, you know, sharks gathering a seal 577 00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:44,079 to kind of share amongst themselves. 578 00:29:44,599 --> 00:29:49,299 - The way in which they circled E.M. at the bar 579 00:29:50,439 --> 00:29:52,560 and circled her on the dance floor, 580 00:29:53,659 --> 00:29:56,420 and there was just something, 581 00:29:56,620 --> 00:29:58,940 I'm going to say, primal about that. 582 00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:01,819 There was pack behaviour. 583 00:30:02,220 --> 00:30:04,480 That's what I want to call it, pack behaviour. 584 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,220 I mean, she was outnumbered. 585 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,500 - We basically got assigned by our editor. 586 00:30:11,940 --> 00:30:14,480 He was like, "I want you to go to London, 587 00:30:15,139 --> 00:30:16,940 talk to as many people as you can. 588 00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:19,960 I want you to recreate what that weekend looked like." 589 00:30:20,380 --> 00:30:22,980 We found another woman that encountered that group 590 00:30:22,980 --> 00:30:24,040 that night at the bar, 591 00:30:25,699 --> 00:30:27,960 talking about her experience 592 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,899 from Jack's that night and encountering this big group. 593 00:30:31,380 --> 00:30:34,899 Them being pretty aggressive in sort of like, you know, 594 00:30:35,020 --> 00:30:37,159 trying to glom onto her, 595 00:30:37,723 --> 00:30:40,495 or trying to, you know, make advances toward her. 596 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,260 There was one particular player 597 00:30:42,260 --> 00:30:45,720 that he kept kind of trying to pass her off 598 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,040 to a bunch of different teammates. 599 00:30:47,159 --> 00:30:49,540 Like, it became clear to her at some point 600 00:30:49,540 --> 00:30:51,740 that he was not just interested 601 00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:55,260 in having some sort of interaction with her. 602 00:30:55,679 --> 00:30:58,200 He clearly wanted her to be interacting 603 00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:59,920 with his teammates as well. 604 00:31:06,050 --> 00:31:11,330 And when he asked her to go home that night, 605 00:31:11,690 --> 00:31:14,590 he asked her to go home with them. 606 00:31:16,650 --> 00:31:18,590 And so, that has always struck me 607 00:31:18,590 --> 00:31:22,190 because there are a lot of similarities 608 00:31:22,190 --> 00:31:24,870 between what she told us 609 00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:28,850 and what E.M. recounts from that night. 610 00:31:29,230 --> 00:31:32,890 And so, for me, that was very impactful. 611 00:31:34,350 --> 00:31:38,090 - The defence was arguing that E.M. had every opportunity 612 00:31:38,090 --> 00:31:40,330 to leave Jack's Bar with her friends, 613 00:31:40,330 --> 00:31:44,490 and she made the choice to stay and drink and party with them. 614 00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:46,470 And I don't think she denies that, 615 00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:48,970 because E.M. never denied in this case 616 00:31:48,970 --> 00:31:51,830 that she willingly left Jack's Bar 617 00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:53,290 and went with Michael McLeod, 618 00:31:53,470 --> 00:31:55,690 and that if she wasn't so drunk, 619 00:31:55,690 --> 00:31:57,290 she wouldn't have. But she did, 620 00:31:57,290 --> 00:32:00,490 and she went and had consensual sex with Michael McLeod. 621 00:32:01,390 --> 00:32:03,530 And after that is when she says everything changed. 622 00:32:04,490 --> 00:32:05,610 - After they have sex, 623 00:32:06,170 --> 00:32:08,550 she goes into the bathroom to clean herself up. 624 00:32:08,990 --> 00:32:11,830 And she says when she comes out of the bathroom, 625 00:32:12,750 --> 00:32:14,970 more men are in the room, and she's shocked. 626 00:32:15,210 --> 00:32:17,670 - You know, he secretly sent a text message 627 00:32:17,670 --> 00:32:19,990 to his teammates asking who was up for a three-way. 628 00:32:21,290 --> 00:32:24,070 - Then Carter Hart texts, like, 629 00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:25,530 I think five minutes later, "I'm in." 630 00:32:26,810 --> 00:32:28,910 - His lawyer suggests that wasn't the case. 631 00:32:28,910 --> 00:32:30,750 That she actually said, 632 00:32:30,750 --> 00:32:31,930 why don't you invite all of your-- 633 00:32:31,930 --> 00:32:34,399 Why don't you invite all of your friends back here 634 00:32:34,620 --> 00:32:36,848 for a wild time? 635 00:32:37,070 --> 00:32:38,650 So, you know, it's interesting 636 00:32:38,650 --> 00:32:41,670 because one of the last bits of evidence that we did see 637 00:32:41,670 --> 00:32:44,850 in the case was an interview that Michael McLeod did 638 00:32:44,850 --> 00:32:47,130 with London Police in late 2018. 639 00:32:47,970 --> 00:32:49,830 In that interview, when he's told 640 00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:52,090 about what the allegation is against him, 641 00:32:52,910 --> 00:32:56,350 he never says E.M. asked me 642 00:32:56,350 --> 00:32:58,230 to invite my whole team back here. 643 00:32:59,450 --> 00:33:01,290 And I would think that if you're being called in 644 00:33:01,290 --> 00:33:03,390 and told that you're being accused of sexual assault, 645 00:33:03,890 --> 00:33:05,390 if she had asked for that, 646 00:33:05,950 --> 00:33:08,650 you would have said that 50 times, not just once. 647 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,320 When you guys finish having sex, 648 00:33:17,420 --> 00:33:18,420 what happens from there? 649 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:23,639 - So in 2018, he does not talk about sending a three-way text. 650 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,460 That doesn't come up. And then in 2022, 651 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,800 he added that... 652 00:34:30,259 --> 00:34:32,699 E.M. wanted him to send the text message. 653 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,539 That he sent it because she asked him to. 654 00:34:34,659 --> 00:34:36,619 So, 2022 was the first time we'd heard that. 655 00:34:39,550 --> 00:34:43,190 - What makes this case interesting is, in 2022, 656 00:34:44,150 --> 00:34:46,210 Hockey Canada reopened its investigation 657 00:34:46,210 --> 00:34:48,789 after the public learned of this, 658 00:34:48,789 --> 00:34:50,570 and after there was public outrage. 659 00:34:50,929 --> 00:34:53,090 The organization said that, you know, 660 00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:55,090 players who didn't participate and cooperate 661 00:34:55,090 --> 00:34:58,870 in the investigation could face mandatory lifetime bans. 662 00:34:59,470 --> 00:35:01,830 And so, at that time, all these players agreed, 663 00:35:01,970 --> 00:35:03,270 Okay, well, we'll cooperate. 664 00:35:04,190 --> 00:35:07,050 And their statements that they gave to Hockey Canada in 2022, 665 00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:10,790 the Crown Attorney in this case says that there was many, 666 00:35:10,910 --> 00:35:12,530 many, many inconsistencies 667 00:35:12,530 --> 00:35:14,810 in what they told Hockey Canada in 2022, 668 00:35:15,210 --> 00:35:17,150 compared to what they told the London Police 669 00:35:17,150 --> 00:35:18,210 four years earlier. 670 00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:21,110 Alex Formenton, who's one of the players who's charged, 671 00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:24,210 in 2022, in his first interview, 672 00:35:24,410 --> 00:35:26,210 he told a Hockey Canada investigator 673 00:35:26,210 --> 00:35:29,429 that he never saw Dillon Dubé slap E.M. 674 00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:31,590 But then four days later, 675 00:35:32,010 --> 00:35:33,450 he asked for another interview. 676 00:35:34,210 --> 00:35:37,389 He admitted that he had not been truthful in his first interview. 677 00:35:37,950 --> 00:35:40,710 He said that Dillon Dubé and Cal Foote 678 00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:43,250 had asked him not to talk about 679 00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:45,210 any of this when he was questioned. 680 00:35:46,658 --> 00:35:50,386 So what happened-- because in the pretrial hearings 681 00:35:50,490 --> 00:35:51,870 in this case, a judge who was overseeing that, 682 00:35:52,470 --> 00:35:57,030 he decided that those statements in 2022 were coerced. 683 00:35:57,370 --> 00:35:59,330 That the players weren't there voluntarily, 684 00:35:59,630 --> 00:36:02,030 that they were only there because they were worried 685 00:36:02,030 --> 00:36:03,490 that they would be banned for life 686 00:36:03,490 --> 00:36:04,390 if they didn't cooperate. 687 00:36:04,390 --> 00:36:06,690 And so, all of those statements from 2022 688 00:36:06,690 --> 00:36:08,630 are not admissible in this trial. 689 00:36:09,630 --> 00:36:10,890 So, E.M. is on the stand 690 00:36:10,890 --> 00:36:12,190 and is cross-examined on all of their-- 691 00:36:12,190 --> 00:36:13,470 all of her statements. 692 00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:15,850 But if the players take the stand, 693 00:36:16,090 --> 00:36:19,110 they can't be cross-examined on anything they said in 2022 694 00:36:19,110 --> 00:36:21,610 to Hockey Canada because all of those statements 695 00:36:21,610 --> 00:36:22,610 have been tossed out. 696 00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:28,660 What weighed on my decision to form grounds 697 00:36:28,660 --> 00:36:30,680 that an offence was committed that night was, 698 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,519 were the inconsistencies in the statements, 699 00:36:32,660 --> 00:36:33,780 and that didn't come out in trial 700 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,000 because the 2022 statements were excluded. 701 00:36:37,660 --> 00:36:40,080 And then you had E.M.'s statements in 2018 702 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,320 and, you know, she had a written statement in 2022 703 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,880 that was spoken about in trial as well. 704 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,420 And you just didn't see the same inconsistencies. 705 00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:50,140 Like, none of them were perfect, right? 706 00:36:50,220 --> 00:36:52,460 Nobody tells the same story the exact same way 707 00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:53,460 over seven years. 708 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,940 But I had some real concerns with what some of the players 709 00:36:57,940 --> 00:37:00,100 were saying, sort of to this person, 710 00:37:00,100 --> 00:37:01,400 and what they were saying to that person. 711 00:37:01,580 --> 00:37:03,140 I think it would have been important for... 712 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,780 the trier of fact to hear, hear the different stories 713 00:37:07,300 --> 00:37:09,740 and how the players' versions of events 714 00:37:09,740 --> 00:37:12,740 sort of evolved over the years. 715 00:37:19,250 --> 00:37:22,409 I met Catherine Laroche a couple years ago. 716 00:37:23,050 --> 00:37:28,610 I'd seen her story reported in a French newspaper in Quebec. 717 00:37:29,489 --> 00:37:32,389 And, you know, it really made an impression on me. 718 00:37:32,469 --> 00:37:36,250 This woman who had said she'd been sexually assaulted 719 00:37:36,250 --> 00:37:38,510 by a prominent junior hockey player 720 00:37:38,510 --> 00:37:41,929 who went on to be a star in the National Hockey League. 721 00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:45,490 And, you know, then decided to kind of take charge 722 00:37:45,490 --> 00:37:49,130 of her own story and figured out how to, 723 00:37:49,150 --> 00:37:52,830 you know, start a program educating young players 724 00:37:52,830 --> 00:37:55,250 about what healthy relationships look like. 725 00:37:57,300 --> 00:38:00,720 I was raped at the age of 23. 726 00:38:01,420 --> 00:38:04,360 And like, there was so many stories like of, 727 00:38:04,620 --> 00:38:06,760 "Ah, the guys took GHB 728 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,980 because alcohol makes them gain weight. 729 00:38:08,980 --> 00:38:11,244 So, you took the wrong water bottle. 730 00:38:11,244 --> 00:38:12,343 You slept with that guy." 731 00:38:12,374 --> 00:38:14,029 And that's when I was like, "What? Who?" 732 00:38:15,460 --> 00:38:17,380 I didn't even know who he was. 733 00:38:17,380 --> 00:38:18,960 I think I said hi, but I, like, 734 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,100 I wasn't in flirt mode or anything. 735 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:22,980 So, I called him, though. 736 00:38:22,980 --> 00:38:26,080 Like, I wanted to know, we had a sexual relation. 737 00:38:26,780 --> 00:38:29,980 And he's like, "Yeah, you liked it." 738 00:38:29,980 --> 00:38:32,640 I was like, "Okay, but they said that you found me unconscious." 739 00:38:33,279 --> 00:38:35,660 He's like, "Yeah, at one point you said you were gonna be sick, 740 00:38:35,660 --> 00:38:39,760 so, like, I, I took off and you went into the bathroom." 741 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,400 He's like, "Can you just please not talk about that? 742 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,180 Because I'm about to sign with the NHL 743 00:38:44,180 --> 00:38:46,360 and it could mess up my career." 744 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,340 And at that point where I had a low self-esteem 745 00:38:49,340 --> 00:38:52,180 and a very doubtful mind, I said, okay. 746 00:38:52,180 --> 00:38:56,840 When I became a mom in 2018 and 2020, 747 00:38:57,580 --> 00:39:00,340 that's when I decided to go to the police. 748 00:39:00,340 --> 00:39:03,460 And it took a year-and-a-half after I went to the police, 749 00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:05,160 before they told me, "Okay, we're ready 750 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:06,780 to start questioning the witness." 751 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,260 And when they told me we're ready, 752 00:39:09,260 --> 00:39:10,420 well, I wasn't anymore. 753 00:39:10,420 --> 00:39:12,920 So, I decided, like, instead of going me against him, 754 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,660 I wanted to educate people like him 755 00:39:15,660 --> 00:39:18,240 to prevent people like me getting hurt. 756 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:20,280 That's my story. 757 00:39:31,540 --> 00:39:34,300 I work with 15-25 right now, 758 00:39:34,300 --> 00:39:36,900 and I'm so hopeful because those guys, 759 00:39:36,900 --> 00:39:39,280 first of all, they're tired of wearing the label 760 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,380 of what comes with being a hockey player. 761 00:39:43,019 --> 00:39:45,300 And they are so open-minded. 762 00:40:05,420 --> 00:40:07,260 Repressing, that's what humans 763 00:40:07,260 --> 00:40:09,500 are used to do. And to repress and put that 764 00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:11,840 behind without really looking 765 00:40:12,340 --> 00:40:16,880 to the real raw and shadowy parts, 766 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,320 it will go again. We have to face the real things. 767 00:40:20,660 --> 00:40:21,660 We have to see them. 768 00:40:52,700 --> 00:40:54,879 There's a journalist who used 769 00:40:54,879 --> 00:40:56,919 to work with 60 Minutes. He's passed away. 770 00:40:57,099 --> 00:40:59,759 He covered a lot of like, conflict zones and wars. 771 00:40:59,919 --> 00:41:00,960 His name was Bob Simon. 772 00:41:01,419 --> 00:41:04,019 And he was killed in a car accident in New York. 773 00:41:04,399 --> 00:41:08,140 And I always liked his line about journalism, which was, 774 00:41:08,859 --> 00:41:09,899 you know, "If it's really important 775 00:41:09,899 --> 00:41:11,120 for you to be popular, 776 00:41:11,740 --> 00:41:13,200 then this is the wrong career choice." 777 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,399 So, and that's, that's, that's true. 778 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:18,859 You know, we do this because it matters. 779 00:41:18,859 --> 00:41:22,819 We do it because the reporting is in the public interest. 780 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,260 And... and journalism is like 781 00:41:26,260 --> 00:41:29,560 a foundation of our democracy, right? 782 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,419 It's our job as journalists to... 783 00:41:31,999 --> 00:41:35,040 to watch the people who are in power in government 784 00:41:35,859 --> 00:41:38,219 and hold them accountable for what they're doing. 785 00:41:43,050 --> 00:41:46,170 One of the key pieces of evidence that we heard 786 00:41:46,170 --> 00:41:48,090 both pretty early and pretty often 787 00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:52,050 is this group text invitation 788 00:41:52,050 --> 00:41:54,690 that Mike McLeod makes to his teammates of, 789 00:41:55,350 --> 00:41:56,950 "I've got a girl in the room 790 00:41:56,950 --> 00:41:59,150 who wants to have a three-way. Mikey." 791 00:41:59,910 --> 00:42:01,490 - I think regardless of whether or not 792 00:42:01,490 --> 00:42:03,750 you think these guys are innocent, 793 00:42:04,050 --> 00:42:06,690 it's disgusting to read these text messages. 794 00:42:06,830 --> 00:42:08,630 It's really quite horrifying. 795 00:42:08,930 --> 00:42:10,670 There's something about the way in which they talk 796 00:42:10,670 --> 00:42:12,150 about it so casually. It seems like something 797 00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:14,890 they're used to doing. They're inviting one another. 798 00:42:16,430 --> 00:42:19,210 - There was 19 players in that group chat. 799 00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:22,510 It did stand out to me that not one person thought like, 800 00:42:22,590 --> 00:42:23,789 hey, wait a second, are you serious? 801 00:42:23,990 --> 00:42:27,730 You know, not one person sort of questioned the text message. 802 00:42:29,090 --> 00:42:31,330 And it just, you know, a three-way text goes out 803 00:42:31,330 --> 00:42:33,850 and within the next hour, two hours, you know, 804 00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:35,769 there's ten guys in the room with E.M. 805 00:42:37,150 --> 00:42:39,450 - There are additional texts from that night. 806 00:42:40,210 --> 00:42:43,190 He texted Taylor Raddysh, asking if he wanted a gummer. 807 00:42:43,190 --> 00:42:45,490 And then ran into Boris Katchouk in the hallway 808 00:42:45,490 --> 00:42:47,570 and asked if he wanted to come in the hotel room for a gummer. 809 00:42:47,870 --> 00:42:51,190 - Which is slang for oral sex. 810 00:42:53,210 --> 00:42:55,510 - Boris Katchouk came back to the room, 811 00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:57,789 and he's not been accused of any wrongdoing. 812 00:42:57,950 --> 00:43:02,110 He's obviously not been charged. But why did you show up? 813 00:43:03,370 --> 00:43:04,890 And he showed up with pizza. 814 00:43:07,210 --> 00:43:10,190 And E.M. was naked in the bed. 815 00:43:10,850 --> 00:43:13,130 And when Boris was asked, 816 00:43:13,350 --> 00:43:15,110 "Did she say anything to you?" 817 00:43:15,570 --> 00:43:19,230 He said, "Yeah, she asked for a bite of my pizza." 818 00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:22,470 And the Crown naturally said, 819 00:43:22,490 --> 00:43:23,730 "Well, did you give her any pizza?" 820 00:43:24,430 --> 00:43:26,110 - He gave a really weird answer, like, 821 00:43:26,210 --> 00:43:28,890 "I don't remember what I said, 822 00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:31,670 but she did not have a bite of pizza." 823 00:43:32,210 --> 00:43:33,350 I found that... 824 00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:37,910 just in really poor taste. No pun intended. 825 00:43:38,410 --> 00:43:40,010 She was good enough to dance with, 826 00:43:40,769 --> 00:43:42,250 she's good enough to party with, 827 00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:44,550 good enough to come back to the room 828 00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:46,890 to see what sort of three-way might be happening, 829 00:43:47,050 --> 00:43:49,370 but not good enough to give a bite of your pizza to? 830 00:43:51,110 --> 00:43:55,750 It was just a moment that was especially dehumanizing, 831 00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:57,770 is what comes to mind for me. 832 00:43:59,530 --> 00:44:02,310 She said after she had sex with Michael McLeod, 833 00:44:02,470 --> 00:44:04,170 other men entered the hotel room. 834 00:44:04,750 --> 00:44:07,330 She testified three men pulled their pants down 835 00:44:07,330 --> 00:44:11,070 for oral sex, as others in the room chanted, "Suck it." 836 00:44:11,550 --> 00:44:15,190 And some allegedly spat on her. Some slapped her buttocks. 837 00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:17,150 Two of the players, she said, 838 00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:18,730 had sex with her in the bathroom. 839 00:44:19,310 --> 00:44:22,030 She testified the men in the room shouted and laughed. 840 00:44:22,850 --> 00:44:24,950 "It was all just a joke to them," she said. 841 00:44:25,149 --> 00:44:27,010 E.M. said she cried at times, 842 00:44:27,230 --> 00:44:28,530 but when she tried to leave, 843 00:44:28,769 --> 00:44:30,730 people would guide her away from the door. 844 00:44:31,330 --> 00:44:35,470 - One of the things that has been debated 845 00:44:35,470 --> 00:44:39,350 or a point of contention is... 846 00:44:40,670 --> 00:44:41,770 how she felt. 847 00:44:42,530 --> 00:44:44,370 And in her words, 848 00:44:44,810 --> 00:44:47,870 she describes feeling, 849 00:44:47,870 --> 00:44:48,870 "Very fearful, 850 00:44:50,310 --> 00:44:53,070 very nervous, very anxious." 851 00:44:53,710 --> 00:44:56,230 - As E.M. testifies, she says they wanted her 852 00:44:56,230 --> 00:44:58,710 to get down on the floor between them, 853 00:44:58,750 --> 00:45:00,730 and she says the hotel floor is dirty. 854 00:45:01,530 --> 00:45:03,610 And that's when they decide to put the sheet down. 855 00:45:03,610 --> 00:45:05,570 So, they put a sheet down, and they all surround her. 856 00:45:06,490 --> 00:45:08,610 At that point, they asked her to masturbate. 857 00:45:09,530 --> 00:45:11,950 I think she complied. And as she described, 858 00:45:12,130 --> 00:45:14,430 they spat on her, and they took turns hitting her. 859 00:45:14,930 --> 00:45:16,510 Some of them made comments about, 860 00:45:16,910 --> 00:45:18,370 it's gross even to say, but they were there 861 00:45:18,370 --> 00:45:20,530 for a golf tournament, so, there were golf balls 862 00:45:20,530 --> 00:45:22,260 and golf clubs around, and they talk about 863 00:45:22,260 --> 00:45:25,268 how many golf balls they could fit up her vagina. 864 00:45:25,390 --> 00:45:27,269 And they also see-- ask whether or not 865 00:45:27,270 --> 00:45:28,650 she could take a full golf club. 866 00:45:29,250 --> 00:45:31,710 - I think when you find yourself in that situation, 867 00:45:31,710 --> 00:45:34,070 you have to make an assessment of, 868 00:45:34,530 --> 00:45:37,750 do I go along with this, or do I resist it? 869 00:45:38,269 --> 00:45:41,590 And if I resist it, how bad could this get? 870 00:45:41,930 --> 00:45:43,910 - And I think something that's really been interesting, 871 00:45:44,410 --> 00:45:46,410 I think people forget when you read about the case, 872 00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:47,950 is these guys are enormous. 873 00:45:48,190 --> 00:45:49,690 They're all at least six feet tall, 874 00:45:49,690 --> 00:45:53,010 or around there. I mean, they're all 200 pounds. 875 00:45:53,710 --> 00:45:55,430 And so, they're more threatening than the average man. 876 00:45:55,789 --> 00:45:57,330 - When you're party to conversations 877 00:45:57,330 --> 00:46:00,250 about people talking about sticking a golf club inside you, 878 00:46:00,950 --> 00:46:03,010 you'd have some concerns about how bad 879 00:46:03,010 --> 00:46:05,670 this could get if things got agitated. 880 00:46:09,090 --> 00:46:11,130 Savard prompted E.M., 881 00:46:11,130 --> 00:46:13,450 "One of your coping mechanisms on this unusual night 882 00:46:13,450 --> 00:46:15,310 may have been offering sex?" 883 00:46:15,690 --> 00:46:18,170 E.M. replied, "I was not acting like myself." 884 00:46:18,590 --> 00:46:21,170 "You were acting like a porn star?" Savard asked. 885 00:46:21,610 --> 00:46:23,789 "Yes, I feel that was the thing they wanted. 886 00:46:24,170 --> 00:46:27,110 They were trying to recreate a porn scene," E.M. replied. 887 00:46:27,490 --> 00:46:30,350 - You know, when she agreed that she'd taken on 888 00:46:30,350 --> 00:46:34,190 the persona of a porn star, that was jarring to hear. 889 00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:38,250 You know, it really kind of, I think, 890 00:46:38,250 --> 00:46:41,810 started a lot of conversations about what trauma response is 891 00:46:41,810 --> 00:46:43,430 and how people respond 892 00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:46,490 in cases where they're being traumatized. 893 00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:53,170 - She experienced this mind separating from her body. 894 00:46:54,170 --> 00:46:58,030 And we know that to be a trauma response of dissociation. 895 00:46:58,030 --> 00:47:02,870 And so, her testimony was so meaningful 896 00:47:03,550 --> 00:47:04,670 to so many people 897 00:47:04,670 --> 00:47:07,810 because they recognized what she was talking about. 898 00:47:10,300 --> 00:47:13,539 Going back to, like, the idea of trauma response, 899 00:47:13,860 --> 00:47:17,480 you don't always remember things sequentially. 900 00:47:17,820 --> 00:47:20,300 And sometimes you... 901 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,820 can't recall a detail of great import, 902 00:47:26,580 --> 00:47:29,660 but then something seemingly inconsequential 903 00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:31,860 will be very vivid. 904 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,440 The detail that sticks out to me 905 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,840 is that she remembered one guy 906 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:41,840 sitting on the bed eating chicken wings. 907 00:47:42,300 --> 00:47:44,960 It struck me as one of those details 908 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,860 that I wonder if that has stuck with her? 909 00:47:52,250 --> 00:47:54,930 - The sex assault trial of five former 910 00:47:54,930 --> 00:47:56,730 World Junior hockey players continued 911 00:47:56,730 --> 00:47:59,449 with the cross-examination of the complainant. 912 00:47:59,449 --> 00:48:01,579 - It's the fifth day of cross-examination. 913 00:48:02,010 --> 00:48:04,670 - E.M. still has many more questions to answer 914 00:48:04,670 --> 00:48:07,750 as the marathon cross-examination continues. 915 00:48:07,910 --> 00:48:10,730 - You know, I was talking to a good friend of mine 916 00:48:10,730 --> 00:48:13,490 who's a former sex crimes prosecutor, 917 00:48:13,490 --> 00:48:15,710 and she, like, was gobsmacked 918 00:48:15,710 --> 00:48:19,270 when she heard that she was on the stand for nine days. 919 00:48:19,370 --> 00:48:22,570 She said she had never seen or heard anything like that. 920 00:48:23,770 --> 00:48:25,850 - Seven days of cross-examination, 921 00:48:26,070 --> 00:48:28,229 how can that not be re-traumatizing? 922 00:48:30,190 --> 00:48:34,810 - She had to sit through five defence lawyers 923 00:48:35,450 --> 00:48:37,010 cross-examining her about what happened, 924 00:48:37,010 --> 00:48:39,889 trying to prove that she was wrong. 925 00:48:40,410 --> 00:48:42,510 - Their goal is, I would imagine, 926 00:48:42,510 --> 00:48:44,330 is to discredit her at every level, 927 00:48:44,330 --> 00:48:46,270 to show what she's saying, you can't believe. 928 00:48:46,270 --> 00:48:48,570 - I'm not sure any one of those accused 929 00:48:48,570 --> 00:48:50,150 could sit up there for seven days 930 00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:51,590 and take that kind of hammering. 931 00:48:54,030 --> 00:48:55,990 I had concerns that we weren't going to get 932 00:48:55,990 --> 00:48:59,970 through it, but then there came a point where, you know, 933 00:49:00,030 --> 00:49:01,730 she only got stronger, every single day 934 00:49:01,730 --> 00:49:02,590 after every break. 935 00:49:02,590 --> 00:49:06,170 - And then she gets cross-examined by Dan Brown, 936 00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:08,170 who's very aggressive. 937 00:49:08,750 --> 00:49:11,270 He's trying to end the day with a flourish 938 00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:12,550 where he's saying, like, you know, 939 00:49:13,050 --> 00:49:16,010 "This is all a result of the shame and embarrassment 940 00:49:16,010 --> 00:49:17,630 from the choices you made." 941 00:49:17,630 --> 00:49:19,770 And he tries to end the day and say, like, 942 00:49:19,770 --> 00:49:20,790 "That's all for me, Your Honour." 943 00:49:20,790 --> 00:49:22,010 And she says at some point, 944 00:49:22,710 --> 00:49:24,310 "No, I would like to finish." 945 00:49:24,730 --> 00:49:26,450 And she has the last word. 946 00:49:26,450 --> 00:49:28,230 And she basically, like, 947 00:49:29,090 --> 00:49:31,170 I am not going to get pushed around. 948 00:49:31,730 --> 00:49:33,330 And I am here for a reason. 949 00:49:33,730 --> 00:49:37,130 This is a chance to stick up for myself in a way 950 00:49:37,130 --> 00:49:39,710 that I didn't and I couldn't at the time, 951 00:49:39,710 --> 00:49:41,989 but you are going to hear that now. 952 00:49:42,550 --> 00:49:47,309 And I thought that was a very powerful moment. 953 00:49:51,550 --> 00:49:54,850 I think that there were some rape myths 954 00:49:54,932 --> 00:49:56,335 coming through in some of the questioning of E.M. 955 00:49:56,390 --> 00:50:00,570 And you know, we have case law that says that rape myths 956 00:50:00,570 --> 00:50:03,810 have no place in the courtroom or the judicial system, 957 00:50:03,970 --> 00:50:06,850 but we have yet to see that, I would say. Yeah. 958 00:50:07,090 --> 00:50:09,510 - So notably, they haven't asked her about her sexual history, 959 00:50:09,730 --> 00:50:11,050 though they did bring up that she had 960 00:50:11,050 --> 00:50:12,050 a boyfriend at the time. 961 00:50:13,070 --> 00:50:15,370 That, you could say, is not related to her history. 962 00:50:15,450 --> 00:50:17,050 It's relevant to the case. 963 00:50:17,650 --> 00:50:19,269 They ask her a lot about how much she was drinking. 964 00:50:19,950 --> 00:50:22,030 "Were you really that drunk that you couldn't consent, 965 00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:24,070 but also you must have been too drunk to remember 966 00:50:24,070 --> 00:50:25,070 exactly what happened?" 967 00:50:25,910 --> 00:50:27,530 So, they toe a lot of those lines. 968 00:50:27,750 --> 00:50:29,810 But they ask her a lot about the high heels she was wearing. 969 00:50:29,890 --> 00:50:30,870 "If you were so drunk, 970 00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:32,010 how could you walk in such high heels?" 971 00:50:34,250 --> 00:50:36,400 - I've heard the argument made by men 972 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,250 who probably have not been intoxicated in high heels, 973 00:50:40,310 --> 00:50:41,310 most of them. 974 00:50:41,610 --> 00:50:43,690 Yeah, you see her and McLeod 975 00:50:43,803 --> 00:50:45,414 walk up the stairs through a lobby 976 00:50:45,550 --> 00:50:47,090 and they're gone. You know, they're on camera 977 00:50:47,090 --> 00:50:48,470 for maybe five or six seconds. 978 00:50:49,290 --> 00:50:51,229 No, she doesn't stumble, but it's not a video 979 00:50:51,490 --> 00:50:53,690 that you can draw a ton of conclusion from. 980 00:50:54,310 --> 00:50:57,299 - Every 20-year-old woman, I would imagine, on Earth, like, 981 00:50:57,299 --> 00:51:00,370 is fairly adept at walking in heels, 982 00:51:01,010 --> 00:51:03,740 even after, like, you know, a night of drinking. 983 00:51:03,740 --> 00:51:06,290 Like, I think a lot of college women 984 00:51:06,290 --> 00:51:07,490 are pretty confident in that. 985 00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:13,940 - So, a lot of the guys that I talk to, 986 00:51:14,119 --> 00:51:15,280 especially WHL, 987 00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:17,880 you really have to move far away from that. 988 00:51:18,559 --> 00:51:23,159 All of them say that, yeah, hockey, absolutely love it. 989 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,100 But the challenges 990 00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:27,220 of moving away from home 991 00:51:27,579 --> 00:51:30,019 and trying to be accepted on a team. 992 00:51:30,739 --> 00:51:33,300 You know, you're 16 years old, you're barely shaving. 993 00:51:33,353 --> 00:51:36,185 - Yeah. Mm-hmm. - And your teammates are 20, 994 00:51:36,185 --> 00:51:36,990 and they're like, they're men, right? 995 00:51:36,990 --> 00:51:38,540 - Yeah. - And just trying 996 00:51:38,540 --> 00:51:41,339 to be accepted, it's hard. - Yeah. 997 00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:42,920 - You know, it can be lonely. 998 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:44,920 A buddy of mine, Justin Davis, 999 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:46,740 he was drafted Washington Capitals. 1000 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,540 He heard this year, 1001 00:51:49,540 --> 00:51:52,140 that at a rookie party in Ontario, 1002 00:51:52,190 --> 00:51:54,927 there was this game, you guys heard of this game, 1003 00:51:55,085 --> 00:51:57,926 "the dick beer"? Where you have to do push-- 1004 00:51:57,980 --> 00:51:59,240 So, all the first-year players 1005 00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:01,400 had to do push-ups, naked, 1006 00:52:01,860 --> 00:52:02,900 over a cup of beer. 1007 00:52:03,900 --> 00:52:06,500 And their penis would go into the beer 1008 00:52:06,500 --> 00:52:08,500 because they had the cup there, right? 1009 00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:11,239 And the rookie who did the fewest push-ups 1010 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,039 had to drink everyone's beer. 1011 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:15,500 This year, this season. 1012 00:52:16,220 --> 00:52:18,159 How can that be happening in 2024 1013 00:52:18,159 --> 00:52:20,719 with all the stuff we've read, right? 1014 00:52:21,079 --> 00:52:22,079 - Yeah. I don't know. 1015 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,340 - My first, like, when I went 16 years old, 1016 00:52:25,699 --> 00:52:28,980 in the Junior, like, the veterans, I was a rookie. 1017 00:52:29,900 --> 00:52:31,140 So, there was, like, 1018 00:52:31,740 --> 00:52:34,420 a thing that we need to eat, 1019 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:38,140 like, a cereal in the ass of someone. 1020 00:52:39,700 --> 00:52:41,230 And... yeah. - Okay. 1021 00:52:41,230 --> 00:52:42,230 - For the rookie. 1022 00:52:42,460 --> 00:52:44,679 - One of my friend also is in prison right now. 1023 00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:45,720 - Nicolas Daigle? - Yes. 1024 00:52:45,780 --> 00:52:47,000 That's one of my best friends. 1025 00:52:47,380 --> 00:52:48,380 - Oh, I'm sorry. 1026 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:49,980 - Got the chance to see him. 1027 00:52:50,940 --> 00:52:52,239 Had a lot of emotion about it. 1028 00:52:52,300 --> 00:52:54,559 We all-- we all did. I mean, it's... 1029 00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,400 - How does he feel? - Feel terrible. 1030 00:52:58,140 --> 00:52:59,600 - Regretful? - Absolutely. 1031 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,480 Every day. But it's every-- 1032 00:53:02,500 --> 00:53:04,940 Every day that we're-- we can't talk to him, 1033 00:53:05,539 --> 00:53:06,860 it's a learning experience for him. 1034 00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:08,840 He wants to get out and want to move on 1035 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,539 and live his life the full as he can. 1036 00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,519 But if you bring him back in time, you know, 1037 00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:16,159 definitely not making the same mistake again. 1038 00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:25,539 In Montreal, meeting with Michel Bérubé. 1039 00:53:26,219 --> 00:53:30,159 Michel was the prosecutor in a highly publicized case 1040 00:53:30,159 --> 00:53:33,400 involving two junior hockey players 1041 00:53:33,839 --> 00:53:35,680 who were accused of sexual assault 1042 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:36,700 and who pleaded guilty. 1043 00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:41,169 I was thinking about the first time I met you 1044 00:53:41,169 --> 00:53:42,410 was in court in Quebec. 1045 00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:46,529 I had just come to hear some of the pretrial arguments 1046 00:53:46,529 --> 00:53:50,669 in the case with Nicolas Diagle and Massimo Siciliano. 1047 00:53:52,609 --> 00:53:55,470 It's interesting, some of the facts that came out 1048 00:53:55,470 --> 00:53:57,770 in your case versus the case in London. 1049 00:53:57,819 --> 00:53:58,819 And there have been even the other, 1050 00:53:58,829 --> 00:54:01,889 there's another case in Quebec recently 1051 00:54:01,889 --> 00:54:03,389 with three hockey players. 1052 00:54:03,989 --> 00:54:05,730 Noah Corson was 18. 1053 00:54:06,669 --> 00:54:08,389 The other two pleaded guilty. 1054 00:54:09,069 --> 00:54:12,629 In that case, Noah Corson's lawyer suggested 1055 00:54:12,629 --> 00:54:16,710 that he received sex education in hockey locker-rooms. 1056 00:54:17,450 --> 00:54:19,710 Do you have any thoughts about what it is about 1057 00:54:19,710 --> 00:54:22,730 the culture of hockey that might lead 1058 00:54:22,730 --> 00:54:25,430 these young men to make bad choices 1059 00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:27,990 and not be the best versions of themselves sometimes? 1060 00:54:28,929 --> 00:54:30,669 - Well, that's a very good question. 1061 00:54:30,669 --> 00:54:34,189 And the way I would answer this question as a prosecutor 1062 00:54:34,189 --> 00:54:38,970 is we encourage victims to come forward 1063 00:54:40,249 --> 00:54:41,850 and to speak up. 1064 00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:46,989 If we try these cases, the culture might change. 1065 00:55:36,410 --> 00:55:38,990 - How much do your teams talk to you 1066 00:55:38,990 --> 00:55:41,169 about issues like this, like consent? 1067 00:55:41,710 --> 00:55:42,949 Does it ever come up? Do they make you-- 1068 00:55:43,149 --> 00:55:46,609 Do they make you watch a video? - There's a video from consent. 1069 00:55:46,661 --> 00:55:48,705 - The tea? - Every year, the tea. 1070 00:55:48,862 --> 00:55:50,487 The tea video. If you're still 1071 00:55:50,591 --> 00:55:52,216 struggling with consent, 1072 00:55:52,269 --> 00:55:54,329 just imagine instead of initiating sex, 1073 00:55:54,569 --> 00:55:55,870 you're making them a cup of tea. 1074 00:55:56,470 --> 00:55:58,390 You say, "Hey, would you like a cup of tea?" 1075 00:55:58,970 --> 00:56:00,330 And if they say, "No thank you," 1076 00:56:00,770 --> 00:56:02,970 then don't make them tea. At all. 1077 00:56:03,350 --> 00:56:05,129 - When it's over, 1078 00:56:05,810 --> 00:56:06,930 some guys will talk around, hey, 1079 00:56:07,350 --> 00:56:10,710 how can she know what the tea tastes 1080 00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:13,349 if she hasn't tasted it? - Really. 1081 00:56:13,350 --> 00:56:14,990 - Well, there's-- there's guys walking around 1082 00:56:14,990 --> 00:56:18,890 about that. And it's not taken seriously yet enough. 1083 00:56:19,369 --> 00:56:21,689 How can that be? Think about all the stories. 1084 00:56:22,129 --> 00:56:24,929 Like, you've got not only the one with Victoriaville, 1085 00:56:25,230 --> 00:56:26,669 we also have Noah Corson. - Yeah. 1086 00:56:26,889 --> 00:56:28,669 - And then you have this case in London. 1087 00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:30,370 Like, why do you think these things 1088 00:56:30,370 --> 00:56:31,990 like this happen repeatedly? 1089 00:56:33,668 --> 00:56:36,216 - Uh, fame. 1090 00:56:36,389 --> 00:56:37,609 Uh, you have it too easy. 1091 00:56:38,609 --> 00:56:40,869 And most of the time, it's easy to get out of it. 1092 00:56:42,169 --> 00:56:44,389 - People look the other way. People make excuses. 1093 00:56:44,389 --> 00:56:47,289 Is that what you mean? - Yep. Too easily. 1094 00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:50,050 - When you go into hockey, right, like, 1095 00:56:50,149 --> 00:56:52,069 you're living a life. You know what I'm saying? 1096 00:56:52,129 --> 00:56:53,450 That's why nobody takes it seriously. 1097 00:56:53,849 --> 00:56:56,929 You don't take responsibilities or-- on anything. 1098 00:56:57,149 --> 00:56:59,449 You don't think as much as you should. 1099 00:56:59,829 --> 00:57:02,730 I think that's one big problem that happens a lot. 1100 00:57:03,029 --> 00:57:06,330 - It's where there's fame and money that ego gets up. 1101 00:57:06,410 --> 00:57:08,890 And when ego gets up, you think you have power 1102 00:57:08,890 --> 00:57:11,089 and you think you can do anything you want. 1103 00:57:11,490 --> 00:57:13,689 Mixed with group effect because those guys are together. 1104 00:57:14,049 --> 00:57:16,750 So, I think people chase all the time, adrenaline, 1105 00:57:16,850 --> 00:57:18,930 they chase power, they chase-- 1106 00:57:18,930 --> 00:57:20,770 Because it helps them feel 1107 00:57:21,410 --> 00:57:22,990 something that's missing inside of them. 1108 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,160 E.M. also testified she did not recall 1109 00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,020 participating in two videos 1110 00:57:31,020 --> 00:57:32,500 taken from McLeod's phone, 1111 00:57:32,659 --> 00:57:36,219 in which she appears to give consent to unspecified acts. 1112 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,420 - In 2018, Mr. McLeod 1113 00:57:40,180 --> 00:57:41,900 handed those videos over to police, 1114 00:57:42,099 --> 00:57:44,380 and E.M. was asked to come back into the station 1115 00:57:44,380 --> 00:57:46,180 and showed those videos, and it was the first time 1116 00:57:46,180 --> 00:57:47,180 she'd seen them. 1117 00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,380 She has said that 1118 00:57:50,279 --> 00:57:53,360 she does not recall filming any of those videos. 1119 00:57:54,100 --> 00:57:56,040 She remarked that, like, she looks pretty different 1120 00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:57,900 to herself on those tapes. 1121 00:57:58,100 --> 00:58:00,600 That, like, she's speaking kind of erratically 1122 00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:03,320 and pretty quickly. Her eyes, she described 1123 00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,220 as having, like, "crazy eyes" and just 1124 00:58:05,220 --> 00:58:07,200 feeling like she looks like a mess. 1125 00:58:09,199 --> 00:58:11,300 - When have you ever been asked to film on camera? 1126 00:58:11,420 --> 00:58:12,820 "Oh, yeah, this is good. I'm okay with it. 1127 00:58:12,860 --> 00:58:14,659 Let's take a selfie and I'll sign off 1128 00:58:14,659 --> 00:58:15,760 and say this was all okay." 1129 00:58:16,300 --> 00:58:17,440 Like, who's giving them that advice? 1130 00:58:17,519 --> 00:58:20,719 Is it kind of known throughout-- amongst them? 1131 00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,000 "Oh, you should, if you have kind of 1132 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,700 an encounter that goes out of control, 1133 00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:26,480 you should take a video like this just in case." 1134 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:28,729 It's a bit strange. And it seems by the nature 1135 00:58:28,729 --> 00:58:29,960 of the videos that this is something that 1136 00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:30,960 they're accustomed to doing. 1137 00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:36,309 - If you got consent, do you need to make the video? 1138 00:58:38,289 --> 00:58:39,730 Which is after the fact 1139 00:58:40,210 --> 00:58:41,510 and not when you're supposed to get a consent. 1140 00:58:44,699 --> 00:58:48,119 I didn't rely on them when I was forming my grounds 1141 00:58:48,119 --> 00:58:50,839 to determine whether an offence had been committed, 1142 00:58:50,980 --> 00:58:54,500 because what mattered was her subjective state of mind 1143 00:58:54,500 --> 00:58:57,060 at the time of each act, right? 1144 00:58:57,180 --> 00:59:00,060 Was it voluntary? Was she giving that consent at the time? 1145 00:59:01,659 --> 00:59:02,960 Um... Not after the fact. 1146 00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,620 It's interesting, you know, you have so many 1147 00:59:07,620 --> 00:59:09,779 reporters in this courtroom 1148 00:59:09,779 --> 00:59:11,819 all listening to the same thing. 1149 00:59:12,939 --> 00:59:15,540 And nobody catches, I think, 1150 00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:17,080 what's a pretty important detail. 1151 00:59:17,679 --> 00:59:19,759 In one of these consent videos, 1152 00:59:20,339 --> 00:59:24,000 like we already know that E.M. says that 1153 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:25,919 Michael McLeod, throughout the course 1154 00:59:25,919 --> 00:59:29,700 of the early morning hours of June 19th, 1155 00:59:29,736 --> 00:59:31,187 um... 1156 00:59:31,299 --> 00:59:33,799 was badgering her to make a video. 1157 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:35,620 But if you actually pay attention 1158 00:59:35,620 --> 00:59:37,140 to what Michael McLeod says, 1159 00:59:37,239 --> 00:59:38,739 I haven't seen anybody report this. 1160 00:59:39,319 --> 00:59:42,461 So, Michael McLeod actually starts that video off by saying, 1161 00:59:42,461 --> 00:59:45,013 "Say it." And then the E.M. says, 1162 00:59:45,319 --> 00:59:47,580 "Okay, it was all consensual. Are you recording me?" 1163 00:59:48,079 --> 00:59:50,279 And he says, "Yes." And she says, "Okay, good." 1164 00:59:50,699 --> 00:59:52,339 And then he says, "What else?" 1165 00:59:52,819 --> 00:59:55,019 And she says, "You are so paranoid. 1166 00:59:55,500 --> 00:59:58,100 Holy! I enjoyed it, it was fine. It was all consensual. 1167 00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,779 I'm so sober that's why I can't do this right now." 1168 01:00:02,060 --> 01:00:03,700 But hearing his words, 1169 01:00:04,700 --> 01:00:06,020 it does make you... 1170 01:00:07,219 --> 01:00:09,259 it does seem to give more credibility 1171 01:00:09,259 --> 01:00:12,699 to what she's saying, that, you know, 1172 01:00:12,759 --> 01:00:15,279 that he was wanting her to do this 1173 01:00:15,909 --> 01:00:17,059 throughout the course of the night 1174 01:00:17,060 --> 01:00:18,580 and prompting her to do it. 1175 01:00:18,939 --> 01:00:20,180 But again, to me, 1176 01:00:20,700 --> 01:00:22,480 you have a courtroom full of reporters, 1177 01:00:23,079 --> 01:00:26,639 and nobody heard this. Nobody reported on it. 1178 01:00:27,299 --> 01:00:28,299 That's interesting. 1179 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:34,720 It's been a crazy couple days. 1180 01:00:34,900 --> 01:00:37,400 We go through one mistrial in this case, 1181 01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:39,140 and then yesterday, 1182 01:00:39,140 --> 01:00:41,167 there's a little bit of momentum in the court 1183 01:00:41,167 --> 01:00:45,122 because E.M. is finally done testifying after nine days. 1184 01:00:45,122 --> 01:00:47,900 And we hear from Tyler Steenbergen, 1185 01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:50,860 a member of Canada's 2018 World Junior team. 1186 01:00:51,420 --> 01:00:53,480 He's offering testimony about what he saw 1187 01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:55,599 in the hotel room. He saw Dillon Dubé 1188 01:00:55,748 --> 01:00:58,792 slap E.M. He saw Cal Foote 1189 01:00:58,892 --> 01:01:00,789 do the splits over top of E.M. 1190 01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,719 And then he testifies that a week later 1191 01:01:03,719 --> 01:01:06,239 after this incident, when he learned Hockey Canada 1192 01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,379 was doing an investigation, Dubé and Foote 1193 01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,060 both called him and asked him 1194 01:01:11,060 --> 01:01:12,900 not to share with investigators 1195 01:01:13,279 --> 01:01:16,400 what he'd seen. And very dramatic testimony. 1196 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:18,380 And then we came back from lunch 1197 01:01:18,380 --> 01:01:20,880 and the judge drops a bombshell. 1198 01:01:21,460 --> 01:01:24,280 She reads this note to the court and the note says... 1199 01:01:38,990 --> 01:01:41,013 "...as if they are discussing our appearance. 1200 01:01:41,099 --> 01:01:43,559 This is unprofessional and unacceptable." 1201 01:01:44,339 --> 01:01:46,680 And so that sets off a firestorm. 1202 01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,710 And immediately the defence, you know, 1203 01:01:49,710 --> 01:01:51,740 you can see the idea forming in their mind already 1204 01:01:51,740 --> 01:01:54,260 that they're going to be able to get a mistrial out of this. 1205 01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,039 And so that's where we are now. We've come back. 1206 01:01:57,039 --> 01:02:00,139 The Defence has said that they think that there should be 1207 01:02:00,139 --> 01:02:02,739 a mistrial and that this case should move forward 1208 01:02:02,739 --> 01:02:04,199 as a judge alone case, 1209 01:02:04,900 --> 01:02:06,360 meaning the jury gets dismissed 1210 01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:10,020 and the judge decides the guilt or acquittal 1211 01:02:10,020 --> 01:02:11,480 of these defendants. 1212 01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,400 - Did the defence team 1213 01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,260 observe the jurors 1214 01:02:15,260 --> 01:02:19,580 in the same way that I observed some of the jurors, 1215 01:02:20,230 --> 01:02:21,520 looking troubled? 1216 01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,520 In one instance, I believe I saw a juror 1217 01:02:25,449 --> 01:02:28,440 physiologically triggered by E.M.'s testimony. 1218 01:02:29,460 --> 01:02:32,519 Was that an opportunity to change course? 1219 01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,080 Did they think that maybe 1220 01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:39,560 they had fallen out of favour with the jurors? 1221 01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:48,800 - There are some people who are watching this 1222 01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,220 who believe there's a bias that the judge has shown 1223 01:02:51,220 --> 01:02:53,000 towards, in favour of the defence. 1224 01:02:53,539 --> 01:02:56,840 I don't know how that would affect her judgment 1225 01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:00,100 in terms of rendering a decision based on the law, 1226 01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,100 but, you know, it's-- 1227 01:03:03,100 --> 01:03:05,560 I really want to see how this unfolds. 1228 01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:07,400 And I know we live in a world of hot takes, 1229 01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:08,640 where, what do you think about that? 1230 01:03:08,860 --> 01:03:11,080 My job is to report on facts that I see, 1231 01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:14,300 and so, the facts are unbelievable. 1232 01:03:17,900 --> 01:03:21,720 - One sex assault trial, two juries discharged. 1233 01:03:22,140 --> 01:03:23,860 This morning, Justice Maria Carroccia 1234 01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,260 decided that this trial will proceed 1235 01:03:26,260 --> 01:03:28,040 in front of her alone, 1236 01:03:28,180 --> 01:03:30,480 out of concern about jury prejudice. 1237 01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:36,000 Yesterday, one of the players who testified, 1238 01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,520 Brett Howden, he's not been charged with anything 1239 01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:39,840 or accused of any wrongdoing, 1240 01:03:40,180 --> 01:03:42,240 he was being asked a whole bunch of questions 1241 01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,620 about what happened in June 2018, 1242 01:03:44,919 --> 01:03:47,200 you know, in this hotel. 1243 01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,460 And so many times he would say, "I don't remember." 1244 01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:51,860 "I don't know, I don't remember." 1245 01:03:52,079 --> 01:03:54,480 So the Crown today argued that Brett Howden 1246 01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:55,780 was not being truthful, 1247 01:03:56,019 --> 01:03:58,380 that he was feigning this memory loss, 1248 01:03:58,380 --> 01:04:01,740 and that it was selective. He was remembering things that, 1249 01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,940 you know, help these players who are defendants, 1250 01:04:05,220 --> 01:04:07,740 the Crown called them his "friends and former teammates", 1251 01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,420 but he was forgetting things, key details 1252 01:04:10,420 --> 01:04:12,240 that he'd talked about previously. 1253 01:04:12,780 --> 01:04:15,280 So, now we're having all of this legal argument 1254 01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,579 over whether or not his past statements 1255 01:04:17,579 --> 01:04:20,880 can be introduced and he can be cross-examined on them. 1256 01:04:21,180 --> 01:04:22,900 One of the text messages in here, 1257 01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:24,519 there was another player on the team 1258 01:04:24,519 --> 01:04:27,300 that's also not charged, named Taylor Raddysh. 1259 01:04:27,900 --> 01:04:31,200 At one point, Brett Howden texts Taylor Raddysh, 1260 01:04:31,780 --> 01:04:33,940 "Dude, I'm so happy I left 1261 01:04:33,940 --> 01:04:35,600 when all the shit went down. Haha." 1262 01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:51,980 - I think the Crowns kind of went into trial 1263 01:04:51,980 --> 01:04:53,420 with one hand tied behind their backs. 1264 01:04:53,860 --> 01:04:56,500 And then once that text was excluded 1265 01:04:56,500 --> 01:04:57,500 by Justice Carroccia, 1266 01:04:57,960 --> 01:04:59,360 I think from then on, 1267 01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:00,720 they had both hands tied behind their backs. 1268 01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:21,500 - When we think about what the actions 1269 01:05:21,500 --> 01:05:23,400 of these other players were in that 1270 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:25,380 room, even the players that weren't charged, 1271 01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:27,780 did they do the right thing? 1272 01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,800 That's going to be for the public to decide. 1273 01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:35,420 They don't face any criminal charges, but you know, 1274 01:05:35,620 --> 01:05:37,860 I can tell you, as a dad, 1275 01:05:38,180 --> 01:05:41,260 I would hope that my sons would act very differently 1276 01:05:41,679 --> 01:05:43,360 and would leave that room immediately 1277 01:05:43,820 --> 01:05:45,000 and would tell someone. 1278 01:05:45,220 --> 01:05:46,520 Would tell somebody that, hey, 1279 01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:48,540 there's something going-- An assistant coach, 1280 01:05:49,020 --> 01:05:50,860 the front desk, anonymously, 1281 01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:52,960 "There's something going on in that room, 1282 01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:54,280 and it's not right." 1283 01:05:59,650 --> 01:06:03,010 - In London, the sex assault trial of five former 1284 01:06:03,010 --> 01:06:05,630 World Junior hockey players continued again today, 1285 01:06:05,710 --> 01:06:08,130 with Carter Hart taking to the witness box. 1286 01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:11,750 He is the first of the accused to testify on his own behalf. 1287 01:06:12,370 --> 01:06:13,610 Carter Hart has testified 1288 01:06:13,610 --> 01:06:15,430 if he had seen anything disrespectful 1289 01:06:15,430 --> 01:06:17,190 happening in that hotel room, 1290 01:06:17,389 --> 01:06:19,050 he would have said something or left. 1291 01:06:19,510 --> 01:06:20,510 - Carter Hart testified, 1292 01:06:21,450 --> 01:06:24,170 and I've heard people in hockey 1293 01:06:24,690 --> 01:06:28,210 suggest that he needed to tell his story that way 1294 01:06:29,070 --> 01:06:31,950 to be assured of a path back to the NHL. 1295 01:06:33,170 --> 01:06:35,070 - She was chirping them. She was saying, 1296 01:06:35,430 --> 01:06:37,070 "Who's going to come and fuck me?" Essentially, 1297 01:06:37,309 --> 01:06:38,869 was what they testified to. 1298 01:06:39,630 --> 01:06:41,070 I mean, it's interesting because... 1299 01:06:41,490 --> 01:06:44,350 it's he said, she said. It's their word against hers, 1300 01:06:44,430 --> 01:06:45,790 essentially, right? She says, 1301 01:06:46,350 --> 01:06:48,070 "No, that's not something I would have said." 1302 01:06:48,250 --> 01:06:49,570 And they say, "You did say that." 1303 01:07:09,050 --> 01:07:11,030 She remembers sort of getting lost 1304 01:07:11,030 --> 01:07:12,250 when she had to leave. 1305 01:07:12,430 --> 01:07:14,290 She realized that she left some jewellery in the room. 1306 01:07:14,810 --> 01:07:16,330 She goes back and knocks on the door 1307 01:07:16,330 --> 01:07:20,050 and remembered how sort of annoyed that they were, 1308 01:07:20,890 --> 01:07:22,769 Formenton and McLeod, that she had come back. 1309 01:07:22,850 --> 01:07:24,070 They let her look for her ring. 1310 01:07:24,670 --> 01:07:25,750 She didn't find it. 1311 01:07:26,070 --> 01:07:27,570 And then she ended up leaving, 1312 01:07:27,750 --> 01:07:29,190 and then she's on surveillance video 1313 01:07:29,790 --> 01:07:31,110 leaving and getting into her Uber. 1314 01:07:32,810 --> 01:07:36,130 Her mom found her in the bathtub, not herself. 1315 01:07:36,930 --> 01:07:38,910 Her mom was kind of able to get it out of her 1316 01:07:38,994 --> 01:07:40,223 that something happened. 1317 01:07:40,350 --> 01:07:42,010 So, her mom initially called London Police, 1318 01:07:42,210 --> 01:07:45,470 just seeking advice. And then the next day, 1319 01:07:45,610 --> 01:07:48,260 once Michael McLeod, I guess, 1320 01:07:48,260 --> 01:07:50,430 had been notified that a complaint had been made, 1321 01:07:50,490 --> 01:07:51,570 he looked her up on Instagram 1322 01:07:51,570 --> 01:07:53,390 and reached out to her and they had 1323 01:07:53,390 --> 01:07:55,810 a brief text conversation. 1324 01:07:56,150 --> 01:07:58,070 "I need to talk rn," he wrote. 1325 01:07:58,269 --> 01:08:00,210 "You said you were having fun?" He texted her. 1326 01:08:00,690 --> 01:08:02,850 "I was really drunk, didn't feel good about it 1327 01:08:02,850 --> 01:08:04,250 at all after." She wrote. 1328 01:08:04,890 --> 01:08:06,670 "I was ok going home with you, 1329 01:08:06,670 --> 01:08:09,830 it was everyone else afterwards that I wasn't expecting. 1330 01:08:10,150 --> 01:08:12,050 I just felt like I was being made fun of 1331 01:08:12,050 --> 01:08:13,230 and taken advantage of." 1332 01:08:13,470 --> 01:08:15,710 McLeod repeatedly pressed her to go to police 1333 01:08:15,710 --> 01:08:16,890 to end the investigation. 1334 01:08:17,630 --> 01:08:19,488 "What can you do to make this go away?" 1335 01:08:19,950 --> 01:08:21,890 - I think he was just trying to get her to withdraw 1336 01:08:21,890 --> 01:08:23,850 any complaint that might be made. 1337 01:08:25,710 --> 01:08:29,130 - We've heard evidence from four players so far, 1338 01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:31,630 and to a degree, all four of them 1339 01:08:32,150 --> 01:08:33,810 have had real memory issues 1340 01:08:33,810 --> 01:08:36,630 when the players were all texting each other, 1341 01:08:37,350 --> 01:08:39,950 you know, trying to decide 1342 01:08:39,950 --> 01:08:43,330 how they would respond to a Hockey Canada investigation. 1343 01:08:49,750 --> 01:08:51,950 The group chat was created 1344 01:08:51,950 --> 01:08:53,569 just from the players in the room. 1345 01:08:53,710 --> 01:08:55,328 That came from Dillon Dubé. 1346 01:08:55,470 --> 01:08:57,229 I think at the time they genuinely believed 1347 01:08:57,229 --> 01:08:58,788 that it was just going to be a Hockey Canada 1348 01:08:58,788 --> 01:08:59,788 conduct investigation. 1349 01:09:07,700 --> 01:09:09,340 You know, as an investigator, 1350 01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,000 there's kind of like an ah-ha moment, right? 1351 01:09:12,099 --> 01:09:13,690 Because that's what we do as police officers. 1352 01:09:13,690 --> 01:09:15,920 We investigate because we want to put 1353 01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:17,179 the puzzle pieces together. 1354 01:09:17,500 --> 01:09:19,420 So, I think that those text messages 1355 01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:22,279 were a lot of the missing puzzle pieces. 1356 01:09:27,300 --> 01:09:29,320 You know, they were there since 2018, 1357 01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:31,520 and they didn't come out until 2022 1358 01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:33,020 when we started asking questions. 1359 01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:36,180 It gave a lot of context to what happened that night, 1360 01:09:36,219 --> 01:09:39,040 what happened the days following. 1361 01:09:39,860 --> 01:09:43,600 The way I read it and the opinion that I formed, 1362 01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:45,658 was that they were trying to come up with a story. 1363 01:09:45,979 --> 01:09:48,078 They were trying to get on the same page. 1364 01:09:53,500 --> 01:09:55,680 - Closing statements in the sexual assault trial 1365 01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,500 of former World Junior hockey players began today. 1366 01:09:59,279 --> 01:10:01,350 The defence teams attacked E.M., 1367 01:10:01,350 --> 01:10:02,540 the Crown's chief witness, 1368 01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:04,560 providing Justice Maria Carroccia 1369 01:10:04,779 --> 01:10:08,220 with a 30-page document known as an aide memoir, 1370 01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,000 referencing what it argued were issues 1371 01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:12,760 with her credibility and reliability. 1372 01:10:13,899 --> 01:10:15,560 I think that the defence 1373 01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:17,840 probably feels pretty good about where they're at. 1374 01:10:18,180 --> 01:10:19,800 The burden of proof on the prosecutors 1375 01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:21,760 is beyond a reasonable doubt. 1376 01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:25,560 Did the prosecution make their case? I don't know. 1377 01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:29,240 This is her word against the word of these five men. 1378 01:10:31,550 --> 01:10:34,310 It's interesting, like, if this was a jury trial still, 1379 01:10:34,510 --> 01:10:37,510 we'd probably be waiting for four or five days, you know, 1380 01:10:37,630 --> 01:10:39,890 sitting in the courthouse, just waiting for a verdict. 1381 01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:42,788 And then the jury would come out and say guilty or not guilty 1382 01:10:42,790 --> 01:10:43,790 for each of the players, 1383 01:10:44,090 --> 01:10:46,630 and we'd never understand why they reached that decision, 1384 01:10:46,670 --> 01:10:49,290 because jurors are not allowed to talk about their verdicts. 1385 01:10:49,988 --> 01:10:52,288 But because of how crazy this trial has been 1386 01:10:52,370 --> 01:10:55,130 because it's now a trial by a judge alone, 1387 01:10:55,450 --> 01:10:56,450 it's different. 1388 01:10:56,550 --> 01:10:58,210 The judge will reserve her decision, 1389 01:10:59,130 --> 01:11:00,610 and then we'll all be, you know, 1390 01:11:00,670 --> 01:11:02,910 sent a notice to come back on a particular day 1391 01:11:03,610 --> 01:11:04,750 for the reading of the verdict. 1392 01:11:14,300 --> 01:11:16,060 How do we change the culture 1393 01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:18,160 when forever, 1394 01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:20,300 it's been one where you have to fit in? 1395 01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:21,840 - Team spirit is really important, 1396 01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:24,200 how the coaches are, how the... 1397 01:11:25,300 --> 01:11:27,100 the player or the veterans are. 1398 01:11:27,859 --> 01:11:32,140 Just about being to accept everyone, whatever they are. 1399 01:11:32,140 --> 01:11:33,720 If you don't want to drink, don't drink. 1400 01:11:33,820 --> 01:11:36,200 If you're gay, you're gay. There's no worry about it. 1401 01:11:36,340 --> 01:11:38,920 - If you think that people like Kyle Beach 1402 01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:42,020 don't deserve a voice, then we're not on the same page. 1403 01:11:42,079 --> 01:11:43,900 - A thousand percent. - You know, if you think 1404 01:11:43,900 --> 01:11:46,980 that Hockey Canada should have this fund 1405 01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,420 to pay off sexual assault allegations 1406 01:11:49,420 --> 01:11:51,680 and keep that secret from the Canadian public... 1407 01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:53,000 - Yep. - ...we're not on the same page. 1408 01:11:53,279 --> 01:11:54,539 - Yep. I totally agree. 1409 01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:56,785 My dad always says, "If someone's, like, 1410 01:11:56,785 --> 01:11:59,040 disagreeing with you, you're doing something right", right? 1411 01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,659 Because, you know, people don't want change. 1412 01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:04,960 And especially in hockey, change is hard because, 1413 01:12:05,780 --> 01:12:07,440 again, we're so protective over the game, right? 1414 01:12:07,440 --> 01:12:10,700 - What would your message be to young players coming up 1415 01:12:10,700 --> 01:12:15,620 when it comes to how to treat younger teammates? 1416 01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,200 How to deal with girls? Like, girls, obviously 1417 01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:19,420 like being around you guys 1418 01:12:19,420 --> 01:12:21,539 because of the celebrity you have, 1419 01:12:21,739 --> 01:12:22,920 because you play junior hockey. 1420 01:12:23,580 --> 01:12:25,220 - But it's okay to have fun, 1421 01:12:25,660 --> 01:12:28,140 but there's also a limit that, yes, 1422 01:12:28,340 --> 01:12:29,960 you want a career, you want to be-- 1423 01:12:30,420 --> 01:12:31,660 you got to grow as a man, 1424 01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:34,759 not just the kid growing up. 1425 01:12:34,759 --> 01:12:38,860 It's, as soon as you get in the league, at 16, at 17, 1426 01:12:39,300 --> 01:12:43,620 whether at 18, you're in big shoes to fill. 1427 01:12:44,220 --> 01:12:46,100 I'm curious, one of the things that, again, 1428 01:12:46,140 --> 01:12:48,100 a lot of these dozens of players have told me 1429 01:12:48,100 --> 01:12:49,960 when I've interviewed them is, when I say, 1430 01:12:50,020 --> 01:12:52,380 "Well, why don't you speak up and why don't you say something? 1431 01:12:52,422 --> 01:12:54,423 When you, you know, when there's like, 1432 01:12:54,510 --> 01:12:56,990 hazing or issues like this, 1433 01:12:57,033 --> 01:12:58,817 why not say something?" 1434 01:12:58,860 --> 01:13:00,840 And almost every player is like, 1435 01:13:01,380 --> 01:13:04,920 "We can't do that. If you speak up, you're done." 1436 01:13:05,779 --> 01:13:07,500 - I think it's hard because we're a big family, 1437 01:13:08,060 --> 01:13:09,400 so we're all like brothers. 1438 01:13:10,020 --> 01:13:14,480 But if you quit that mentality to say something, it's hard. 1439 01:13:15,340 --> 01:13:16,540 - Well, what if, you know, 1440 01:13:16,580 --> 01:13:19,000 the rest don't see it the way you see it? 1441 01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,320 Then you're by yourself a little bit. 1442 01:13:21,780 --> 01:13:23,200 Even though you should be the one talking, 1443 01:13:23,440 --> 01:13:24,760 it's the right thing to do, 1444 01:13:25,300 --> 01:13:28,380 then you get the fear of rejection, right? 1445 01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:30,320 - What's happened to the image of hockey 1446 01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:31,820 over the last couple of years? 1447 01:13:31,820 --> 01:13:34,020 I think of, yeah, like, 1448 01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:36,840 what's happened to it across our country? 1449 01:13:37,500 --> 01:13:39,400 - It changed. Because some people 1450 01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:40,690 did some bad thing, 1451 01:13:40,690 --> 01:13:43,440 like, they think everybody's like that, but... 1452 01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,760 it's not the true. Like, there are some good guys 1453 01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:48,280 in hockey, like, a lot of good guys. 1454 01:13:48,579 --> 01:13:50,300 - When you're saying, "That's how people see us", 1455 01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:51,880 how do you know that? 1456 01:13:52,159 --> 01:13:54,119 Do people actually say this to you in person? 1457 01:13:54,189 --> 01:13:55,394 - Yeah. - Yeah. 1458 01:13:55,501 --> 01:13:56,564 - Yeah, like, I've heard that. - Honestly? 1459 01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:59,620 - Yeah, but it's well known that everybody thinks, 1460 01:14:00,100 --> 01:14:03,620 like, pretty much always bad about hockey player. 1461 01:14:03,660 --> 01:14:05,900 And even in life, like, you're at the bar 1462 01:14:05,900 --> 01:14:08,160 and everything, like, a girl say, 1463 01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:09,680 "Oh, you're a fucking hockey player", and like... 1464 01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:11,300 - They're all the same. - Yeah. 1465 01:14:11,340 --> 01:14:13,160 - That's the same thing every time. 1466 01:14:13,300 --> 01:14:14,760 Hockey players, all the same. 1467 01:14:15,739 --> 01:14:17,180 But no, we're all humans. 1468 01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:19,719 At the end of the day, it's... 1469 01:14:19,719 --> 01:14:22,280 it could happen to anyone. But we're hockey players, 1470 01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:24,980 and it's all in the media most of the time, so... 1471 01:14:27,450 --> 01:14:29,290 All right, gentlemen. Good morning. 1472 01:14:29,410 --> 01:14:30,570 Great workout at the gym. 1473 01:14:31,349 --> 01:14:33,250 What we're going to work on today is some Edgeboss. 1474 01:14:33,769 --> 01:14:35,309 Lucas is here. Welcome back, Lucas. 1475 01:14:35,809 --> 01:14:37,010 We're going to work on some hands, 1476 01:14:37,110 --> 01:14:38,590 some quick feet. Let's go. 1477 01:14:41,450 --> 01:14:42,630 My name is Jim Thomson. 1478 01:14:43,050 --> 01:14:44,889 I'm the owner of the Aurora Tiger Junior A 1479 01:14:44,889 --> 01:14:46,750 Hockey Team of the OJHL. 1480 01:14:47,110 --> 01:14:48,770 My happy place is hockey. 1481 01:14:49,070 --> 01:14:51,849 It's my life. I've done it since I was six years old. 1482 01:14:52,510 --> 01:14:54,309 Getting to work with these young men 1483 01:14:54,309 --> 01:14:55,929 and being in the gym every day with them, 1484 01:14:56,030 --> 01:14:57,710 being on the ice every day with them, 1485 01:14:57,914 --> 01:14:59,317 I love it. I'll love it till-- 1486 01:14:59,317 --> 01:15:01,510 I'll do this until I can't do it anymore. 1487 01:15:05,350 --> 01:15:09,270 We have an obligation to these young athletes 1488 01:15:09,270 --> 01:15:11,789 to teach them the right culture. 1489 01:15:12,150 --> 01:15:13,650 Give them a great foundation 1490 01:15:13,650 --> 01:15:15,530 to get on with a healthy lifestyle. 1491 01:15:15,530 --> 01:15:17,750 And that's far above winning. 1492 01:15:18,590 --> 01:15:21,350 And what I want to happen here 1493 01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:23,829 is what my coaches, what my general manager, 1494 01:15:24,010 --> 01:15:26,050 what my assistant GM, my trainers, everybody 1495 01:15:26,470 --> 01:15:29,150 has to be part of. And if they don't, 1496 01:15:29,470 --> 01:15:30,470 they can't work here. 1497 01:15:30,910 --> 01:15:32,390 And that's just the bottom line 1498 01:15:32,390 --> 01:15:35,329 because you entrust your son to be here. 1499 01:15:35,850 --> 01:15:37,230 My job as the owner 1500 01:15:37,230 --> 01:15:40,690 is to make sure that he's taken care of like my own kids. 1501 01:15:44,359 --> 01:15:49,239 Today, this dressing room is open conversation in Aurora. 1502 01:15:49,519 --> 01:15:52,779 My leadership group here, there's nothing hidden. 1503 01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:54,879 If there's something going on, 1504 01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:57,420 I want to know about it, or the coaches or the GM 1505 01:15:57,420 --> 01:15:58,420 have to know about it. 1506 01:15:58,559 --> 01:16:00,599 Some players thought they could beat it. 1507 01:16:00,940 --> 01:16:02,420 No matter how good they were, 1508 01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:05,400 I got them out because they're not going to break my culture. 1509 01:16:06,660 --> 01:16:08,160 What I want to see more of, 1510 01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:10,420 "That's wrong. You guys stop it." 1511 01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:13,379 That's, instead of just turning a blind eye to say, 1512 01:16:13,379 --> 01:16:15,480 I'm out of here, that's what I want to see. 1513 01:16:15,500 --> 01:16:16,859 I want to see the leadership's group say, you know, 1514 01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:19,900 "What the hell are you doing? Stop that nonsense." 1515 01:16:20,740 --> 01:16:22,020 That's where we gotta get to. 1516 01:16:25,300 --> 01:16:27,760 Less than one percent of the players make the NHL. 1517 01:16:28,480 --> 01:16:30,340 So the 99% that don't, 1518 01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:32,180 what kind of journey and what kind of experience 1519 01:16:32,180 --> 01:16:35,520 do they have? What are they getting out of it? 1520 01:16:36,060 --> 01:16:37,760 You know, I have that tattoo there, 1521 01:16:38,619 --> 01:16:41,000 "In a world where you can be anything, be kind." 1522 01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:43,280 You know, that's it. We're in a world 1523 01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:44,820 where you can be anything, be kind. 1524 01:16:45,340 --> 01:16:46,520 Kindness matters, right? 1525 01:17:37,649 --> 01:17:41,409 I wonder, how would that incident in London 1526 01:17:41,410 --> 01:17:45,770 have been different if one of those guys 1527 01:17:45,770 --> 01:17:47,049 walking into that room 1528 01:17:47,950 --> 01:17:49,690 and taking in that scene 1529 01:17:50,090 --> 01:17:53,870 where there's ten guys and one woman, 1530 01:17:54,609 --> 01:17:57,589 what would have happened if one of those guys had said, 1531 01:17:57,809 --> 01:18:01,069 "This doesn't feel right?" "Let's get her a taxi." 1532 01:18:01,410 --> 01:18:03,830 How would the last seven years 1533 01:18:03,830 --> 01:18:06,689 have been different for them? For E.M.? 1534 01:18:07,869 --> 01:18:09,250 I wonder about that. 1535 01:18:13,770 --> 01:18:14,770 Well, here we go. 1536 01:18:22,950 --> 01:18:24,730 - It does not matter 1537 01:18:24,730 --> 01:18:26,809 what happens in that courtroom today. 1538 01:18:27,010 --> 01:18:29,130 It's really about the community 1539 01:18:29,130 --> 01:18:31,290 that's come together and showing women 1540 01:18:31,290 --> 01:18:32,869 that they are believed 1541 01:18:32,869 --> 01:18:34,569 and that there's community behind them. 1542 01:18:34,729 --> 01:18:37,069 And I'm hopeful that that's the messaging 1543 01:18:37,069 --> 01:18:39,269 that sticks from all of this. 1544 01:18:39,490 --> 01:18:41,349 - What do we want? - Justice! 1545 01:18:41,990 --> 01:18:43,990 - When do we want it? - Now! 1546 01:18:44,389 --> 01:18:46,170 - I'm a survivor as well. 1547 01:18:46,449 --> 01:18:50,929 And the whole reason I came was to show her that it matters. 1548 01:18:51,609 --> 01:18:53,909 And she can face five defence attorneys. 1549 01:18:54,029 --> 01:18:55,029 We can face one. 1550 01:18:55,158 --> 01:18:57,138 What do we want? Justice! 1551 01:18:57,224 --> 01:18:59,333 - When do we want it? - Now! 1552 01:18:59,419 --> 01:19:00,840 - What do we want? - Justice! 1553 01:19:00,883 --> 01:19:02,475 - When do we want it? - Now! 1554 01:19:02,605 --> 01:19:04,929 - What do we want? - Justice! 1555 01:19:05,059 --> 01:19:06,435 - This trial has been a real wake-up call 1556 01:19:06,565 --> 01:19:07,813 for hockey culture in Canada, 1557 01:19:07,857 --> 01:19:09,535 and it really sends a message to the public 1558 01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:11,460 and to the community of London 1559 01:19:11,460 --> 01:19:13,480 that this means a lot to us. 1560 01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:17,160 - It's definitely a pivotal moment, 1561 01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:18,660 regardless of the outcome. 1562 01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:20,780 We're not going to be quiet about it, that's for sure. 1563 01:19:28,450 --> 01:19:30,770 - Five former World Junior hockey players 1564 01:19:30,770 --> 01:19:33,370 at the centre of a high-profile sexual assault trial 1565 01:19:33,870 --> 01:19:37,890 are now free and clear, all of them found not guilty. 1566 01:19:38,030 --> 01:19:40,590 - The judge saying she found the complainant's allegations 1567 01:19:40,590 --> 01:19:42,650 against the men lacked credibility. 1568 01:19:43,590 --> 01:19:45,010 This case started out, 1569 01:19:45,010 --> 01:19:46,390 it certainly was a roller coaster 1570 01:19:46,390 --> 01:19:49,390 with a mistrial, with the jury dismissed, 1571 01:19:49,390 --> 01:19:51,270 you know, moving ahead as a judge alone. 1572 01:19:51,950 --> 01:19:53,470 The lawyers I talked to who are experts 1573 01:19:53,470 --> 01:19:55,210 say they've never seen anything like this before, 1574 01:19:55,210 --> 01:19:57,610 but here we are. And so, we trust 1575 01:19:57,610 --> 01:20:00,050 the judge's decision, and the players are not guilty. 1576 01:20:00,930 --> 01:20:01,930 - They're all not guilty. 1577 01:20:02,947 --> 01:20:04,341 She can't find that consent was vitiated 1578 01:20:04,341 --> 01:20:05,341 on any of the counts, 1579 01:20:06,110 --> 01:20:09,230 and she didn't find E.M. reliable or credible. 1580 01:20:10,730 --> 01:20:13,130 It's not an easy day. It's a pretty disappointing day, 1581 01:20:13,130 --> 01:20:14,270 but also not surprising. 1582 01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:20,265 Yeah. 1583 01:20:21,775 --> 01:20:24,750 I, uh... sorry. 1584 01:20:24,796 --> 01:20:26,398 Um... 1585 01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:29,359 I didn't think I was going to cry. 1586 01:20:29,503 --> 01:20:31,086 Um... 1587 01:20:32,239 --> 01:20:34,140 I wanted to get her the right answer 1588 01:20:35,359 --> 01:20:37,119 because I didn't think she got it in 2018. 1589 01:20:39,949 --> 01:20:41,729 So, that was always, um... 1590 01:20:46,199 --> 01:20:48,720 That was my goal throughout the whole investigation. 1591 01:20:48,898 --> 01:20:50,980 Um... 1592 01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:52,760 And then my job kind of, 1593 01:20:53,020 --> 01:20:55,020 I understood that my job came to an end 1594 01:20:55,139 --> 01:20:57,099 once I kind of handed it over to the Crowns. 1595 01:20:57,500 --> 01:20:59,139 It took an emotional toll, 1596 01:20:59,880 --> 01:21:01,780 just watching everything she had to go through. 1597 01:21:02,739 --> 01:21:05,659 It took a lot out of me, my family. 1598 01:21:08,540 --> 01:21:10,760 But I wouldn't have done it differently. 1599 01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:15,280 And it was honestly an honour to work for her on this case. 1600 01:21:19,449 --> 01:21:22,869 - Whenever I've given advice to complainants, 1601 01:21:22,870 --> 01:21:24,010 I always tell them, 1602 01:21:24,010 --> 01:21:26,110 there's no guarantees about the outcome, 1603 01:21:26,110 --> 01:21:28,030 and you have to be prepared for that. 1604 01:21:28,870 --> 01:21:31,690 Her purpose, which was always at the forefront of her mind, 1605 01:21:31,690 --> 01:21:33,170 was to stand up for herself 1606 01:21:33,170 --> 01:21:35,829 and for others who have had similar experiences. 1607 01:21:36,650 --> 01:21:38,650 She felt there needed to be accountability, 1608 01:21:39,210 --> 01:21:42,849 but her choice to testify came at a great personal cost. 1609 01:21:43,049 --> 01:21:45,429 When a person summons the courage 1610 01:21:45,429 --> 01:21:47,309 to disclose their story, 1611 01:21:47,309 --> 01:21:51,270 the worst possible outcome is to feel disbelieved. 1612 01:22:01,750 --> 01:22:05,629 - Instead of pursuing restorative justice, 1613 01:22:05,629 --> 01:22:08,110 the Crown forced a distressing 1614 01:22:08,230 --> 01:22:10,250 and unnecessary trial 1615 01:22:10,250 --> 01:22:11,410 to the detriment 1616 01:22:11,870 --> 01:22:15,190 of Mr. Hart, his co-defendants, 1617 01:22:16,390 --> 01:22:17,450 the complainant, 1618 01:22:19,069 --> 01:22:20,589 and the Canadian public. 1619 01:22:30,650 --> 01:22:33,109 - Rick, were you in fact in the courtroom today? 1620 01:22:33,989 --> 01:22:35,099 Yeah, I was sitting there. 1621 01:22:35,099 --> 01:22:36,870 Like, the judge gave a bit of a spoiler 1622 01:22:36,870 --> 01:22:38,570 by saying right off the bat 1623 01:22:38,570 --> 01:22:40,450 that she didn't find E.M., 1624 01:22:40,450 --> 01:22:43,750 the complainant's, testimony, to be credible or reliable. 1625 01:22:43,909 --> 01:22:46,970 And as soon as she said that, you could hear audible gasps 1626 01:22:46,970 --> 01:22:49,189 from the section of the public gallery 1627 01:22:49,189 --> 01:22:50,750 where the players' families were. 1628 01:22:51,590 --> 01:22:55,329 Just because the judge finds that something criminal 1629 01:22:55,330 --> 01:22:56,870 did not happen in that room, 1630 01:22:56,870 --> 01:22:59,310 it does not mean that players 1631 01:22:59,310 --> 01:23:02,850 didn't say and do things that were depraved. 1632 01:23:23,570 --> 01:23:26,909 - Acquittals are not the same as innocence, 1633 01:23:27,850 --> 01:23:30,290 and I don't think acquittals 1634 01:23:30,290 --> 01:23:33,530 will necessarily lead to absolution. 1635 01:23:44,350 --> 01:23:46,350 - People are saying, "No, I believe her." 1636 01:23:46,870 --> 01:23:48,150 You know, I've seen TikTok videos even 1637 01:23:48,150 --> 01:23:51,170 where people are like, "No, I lived in a hockey town, 1638 01:23:51,170 --> 01:23:52,830 and I believe her. 1639 01:23:53,070 --> 01:23:55,270 That's exactly what the culture was like." 1640 01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:08,900 - I hope that people speak up 1641 01:24:08,900 --> 01:24:11,780 and say, this is too much. 1642 01:24:12,059 --> 01:24:13,960 We shouldn't have to be 1643 01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:17,339 so afraid of the system to seek justice. 1644 01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:27,900 - By coming forward, you're protecting others. 1645 01:24:28,300 --> 01:24:31,560 I always suggest and emphasize the power... 1646 01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:34,660 ...of that knock 1647 01:24:34,660 --> 01:24:36,520 of the policeman on the perpetrator's door. 1648 01:24:37,460 --> 01:24:40,560 That's a warning shot that may really change their ways. 1649 01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:42,220 It's going to make them think twice. 1650 01:24:42,900 --> 01:24:44,540 It's going to really, you know, 1651 01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:46,300 change the game for that individual. 1652 01:24:55,150 --> 01:24:57,270 - I guess in my line of work, 1653 01:24:57,270 --> 01:24:59,570 I generally find that, um... 1654 01:25:00,870 --> 01:25:02,150 courage is contagious 1655 01:25:03,150 --> 01:25:06,370 and that it will be impossible for her 1656 01:25:06,370 --> 01:25:07,629 to understand 1657 01:25:08,409 --> 01:25:10,789 the impact that she will make 1658 01:25:11,229 --> 01:25:14,109 on others who are considering to come forward. 1659 01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:31,869 - We are so proud and happy 1660 01:25:31,869 --> 01:25:34,020 that you were able to put on a face 1661 01:25:34,020 --> 01:25:36,100 and go and do it. And like, it means the world 1662 01:25:36,100 --> 01:25:38,300 to people that you don't even know 1663 01:25:38,300 --> 01:25:40,400 or will never meet. So, thank you so much. 1664 01:25:42,404 --> 01:25:43,887 - You have changed us. 1665 01:25:43,929 --> 01:25:46,937 We believe you. And we are with you. 1666 01:25:47,020 --> 01:25:49,739 - Honestly, I couldn't speak up and thank you 1667 01:25:49,740 --> 01:25:53,120 for being so brave and speaking up. 1668 01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:57,300 And I wish you healing along the way. 1669 01:25:59,350 --> 01:26:01,550 - Keep aligning in your truth 1670 01:26:01,550 --> 01:26:05,430 and keep thinking that your win is yours and nobody else's. 1671 01:26:08,900 --> 01:26:10,400 - And I think what you're doing 1672 01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:13,599 needs to be done, and I think this is the start 1673 01:26:13,599 --> 01:26:15,120 of some real change. 1674 01:26:15,260 --> 01:26:18,811 We will not be victimized! 1675 01:26:18,859 --> 01:26:20,460 - I want you to... 1676 01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:23,780 pass the baton now to us, 1677 01:26:23,780 --> 01:26:26,379 and let us... let us continue this fight. 1678 01:26:26,379 --> 01:26:27,960 And just know that nothing... 1679 01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:31,480 nothing that you did will be done in vain. 1680 01:26:32,339 --> 01:26:34,979 And I think that you... you deserve peace now, 1681 01:26:34,979 --> 01:26:36,679 because you did your job and you did it really well. 1682 01:26:39,500 --> 01:26:41,080 - I think you're a hero. 1683 01:26:41,820 --> 01:26:47,040 There are so few people that would knowingly take on 1684 01:26:47,740 --> 01:26:49,140 what you agreed to do 1685 01:26:49,140 --> 01:26:50,380 just because... 1686 01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:53,740 you thought it was the right thing to do. 1687 01:26:57,170 --> 01:26:58,969 - E.M., you changed lives. 1688 01:27:01,149 --> 01:27:03,269 I... I really think that. 1689 01:27:03,369 --> 01:27:04,989 I think you changed people's lives 1690 01:27:04,989 --> 01:27:07,309 in the course of those nine days. 1691 01:27:08,870 --> 01:27:09,849 And, uh... 1692 01:27:09,849 --> 01:27:12,190 I hope you've seen the video of all the protesters, 1693 01:27:12,909 --> 01:27:15,670 and I hope you have received all the messages of support... 1694 01:27:17,349 --> 01:27:19,969 from across the country and other parts of the world. 1695 01:27:23,300 --> 01:27:24,679 People won't forget what you did. 1696 01:27:26,740 --> 01:27:27,740 Thank you. 1697 01:27:39,228 --> 01:27:41,910 Subtitling: difuze 126840

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