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1
00:01:01,728 --> 00:01:03,605
What she told you
was hard to hear.
2
00:01:03,688 --> 00:01:05,106
Of course it was.
3
00:01:05,190 --> 00:01:07,025
All this time, going on
and telling you
4
00:01:07,108 --> 00:01:11,988
about how traumatized my son
was by his stepfather, and...
5
00:01:12,071 --> 00:01:14,574
turns out he's in love
with the guy.
6
00:01:14,657 --> 00:01:17,786
-He's in love with--
-It's-- it's a figure of speech.
7
00:01:17,869 --> 00:01:19,746
But it's basically
what Rosie told me
8
00:01:19,829 --> 00:01:20,914
in so many words.
9
00:01:22,248 --> 00:01:23,750
I mean...
10
00:01:23,833 --> 00:01:26,252
Max and Steve, they spent
the whole weekend together,
11
00:01:26,336 --> 00:01:29,339
going to museums.
They draw together, they--
12
00:01:29,422 --> 00:01:31,549
Steve brings him
into the architecture studio,
13
00:01:31,633 --> 00:01:35,220
teaches him. I-- I--
I don't even know the terms.
14
00:01:35,303 --> 00:01:38,807
Line drawing, drafting,
whatever it's called.
15
00:01:38,890 --> 00:01:41,142
How to use a mechanical pencil.
16
00:01:41,226 --> 00:01:43,019
Have you spoken
to Max about this?
17
00:01:43,102 --> 00:01:45,730
I haven't spoken with Max
about much of anything.
18
00:01:47,232 --> 00:01:49,609
I was gonna sit him down
as soon as he came back
19
00:01:49,692 --> 00:01:51,486
from Maryland, and...
20
00:01:51,569 --> 00:01:54,531
talk to him about what he found
on my computer that night,
21
00:01:54,614 --> 00:01:58,284
you know,
my Parkinson's research, but...
22
00:01:58,368 --> 00:02:00,328
since my conversation
with Rosie,
23
00:02:00,411 --> 00:02:02,747
I haven't been able
to bring myself to do it.
24
00:02:02,831 --> 00:02:04,624
What are you afraid
to hear Max say?
25
00:02:04,707 --> 00:02:06,459
Are you--
26
00:02:06,543 --> 00:02:08,711
Are you really gonna
make me answer that?
27
00:02:08,795 --> 00:02:13,174
I mean, you-- you saw perfectly
what was happening last week,
28
00:02:13,258 --> 00:02:14,884
more clearly
than I saw it myself.
29
00:02:14,968 --> 00:02:17,846
I'm sure you know the answer
without me having to say it.
30
00:02:17,929 --> 00:02:19,806
You think I know
what you're going to say
31
00:02:19,889 --> 00:02:22,892
-before you say it?
32
00:02:22,976 --> 00:02:25,562
I was getting my son
to worry about me.
33
00:02:28,273 --> 00:02:29,858
He won't tell me about Steve
34
00:02:29,941 --> 00:02:31,860
because he's trying
to protect me.
35
00:02:34,195 --> 00:02:38,032
I-- I can't stop myself
from wondering if...
36
00:02:39,826 --> 00:02:41,244
you know,
37
00:02:41,327 --> 00:02:43,830
if he'd actually be better off
in Maryland.
38
00:02:44,956 --> 00:02:47,041
With his mother and Steve.
39
00:02:49,168 --> 00:02:51,462
It's hard for you
to consider that.
40
00:02:51,546 --> 00:02:55,049
If they share this passion
for drawing, for art,
41
00:02:55,133 --> 00:02:56,259
and Steve feeds it,
42
00:02:56,342 --> 00:02:59,053
I mean, how can I deny
my son that?
43
00:02:59,137 --> 00:03:01,598
If I did, I'd be doing exactly
what was done to me.
44
00:03:01,681 --> 00:03:03,766
I'd be-- I'd be dragging
him away
45
00:03:03,850 --> 00:03:06,102
from his vibrant teenage years
and...
46
00:03:07,687 --> 00:03:11,065
taking him to a dreary,
lifeless apartment
47
00:03:11,816 --> 00:03:13,151
with a sick parent.
48
00:03:14,611 --> 00:03:16,404
Is that how you see
your existence?
49
00:03:16,487 --> 00:03:18,823
As dreary and lifeless?
50
00:03:18,907 --> 00:03:20,742
I'm sure that's how Max sees it.
51
00:03:20,825 --> 00:03:23,161
I wasn't asking about Max.
52
00:03:23,244 --> 00:03:25,038
I really wish Rosie
had never told me
53
00:03:25,121 --> 00:03:26,873
about the fucking twin-drafting
tables.
54
00:03:26,956 --> 00:03:29,792
I-- I really could have done
without that detail.
55
00:03:29,876 --> 00:03:31,461
Is that what gets to you most?
56
00:03:31,544 --> 00:03:34,923
It all-- it all gets to me.
The whole-- the whole picture.
57
00:03:36,132 --> 00:03:37,634
And it's not just them either.
58
00:03:37,717 --> 00:03:41,638
Just about everybody I know
has some kind of passion.
59
00:03:41,721 --> 00:03:43,348
Something or somebody...
60
00:03:44,682 --> 00:03:45,767
drives them.
61
00:03:47,185 --> 00:03:48,227
But not you.
62
00:03:49,479 --> 00:03:53,816
Sometimes I-- I try to pretend
I-- I do, yeah.
63
00:03:54,609 --> 00:03:56,486
How do you do that?
64
00:03:56,569 --> 00:03:58,571
What does that mean,
you pretend?
65
00:03:59,989 --> 00:04:00,990
Wendy--
66
00:04:02,450 --> 00:04:06,162
Um, my girlfriend, she--
67
00:04:06,245 --> 00:04:09,374
she stopped by the apartment
at-- at lunchtime today.
68
00:04:09,457 --> 00:04:11,751
And she-- she knows I have
an hour and a half
69
00:04:11,834 --> 00:04:13,670
without any patients, and, um...
70
00:04:15,588 --> 00:04:19,676
we-- we haven't had sex
for-- for a while.
71
00:04:19,759 --> 00:04:20,885
and, uh...
72
00:04:22,595 --> 00:04:25,306
since she can't stay over
and I can't stay at her place
73
00:04:25,390 --> 00:04:28,351
-because of Max--
-Max was away this weekend.
74
00:04:28,434 --> 00:04:31,187
Right. That's true.
I hadn't told her that.
75
00:04:31,270 --> 00:04:32,647
But you saw her today.
76
00:04:33,731 --> 00:04:35,984
She-- she has--
she has this thing,
77
00:04:36,067 --> 00:04:37,276
you know, she--
78
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,113
For-- For some reason,
she's been wanting
79
00:04:40,196 --> 00:04:42,323
to have sex on the couch
in my office.
80
00:04:43,074 --> 00:04:45,034
So we-- we did.
81
00:04:45,118 --> 00:04:47,286
Well this was your attempt
at being passionate
82
00:04:47,370 --> 00:04:48,955
about something.
83
00:04:49,038 --> 00:04:50,248
I suppose you're right.
84
00:04:50,748 --> 00:04:51,749
And?
85
00:04:52,875 --> 00:04:53,918
I was...
86
00:04:56,004 --> 00:04:58,840
I was distracted. I was...
87
00:05:00,091 --> 00:05:01,843
I was--
88
00:05:01,926 --> 00:05:05,013
I was thinking
about other things.
89
00:05:06,055 --> 00:05:07,348
What were you thinking about?
90
00:05:13,021 --> 00:05:14,439
I don't know, um...
91
00:05:17,066 --> 00:05:18,067
Not her.
92
00:05:21,904 --> 00:05:25,491
I've this-- I have this boat
in my office, and I...
93
00:05:25,575 --> 00:05:30,288
I-- I just found myself...
staring,
94
00:05:30,371 --> 00:05:34,959
you know, staring at it
after Wendy and I were finished.
95
00:05:35,043 --> 00:05:38,212
It's a-- a model,
a kind of a sailboat.
96
00:05:38,296 --> 00:05:40,339
It's about-- about that big.
97
00:05:42,884 --> 00:05:44,385
I used to have about 26 of them.
98
00:05:44,469 --> 00:05:47,930
Different sizes, you know,
schooners, sloops.
99
00:05:48,014 --> 00:05:51,017
-Do you like to sail?
-Never been.
100
00:05:51,100 --> 00:05:55,063
Anyway, these--
these boats are...
101
00:05:56,189 --> 00:05:58,149
Um, I suppose
they're the closest
102
00:05:58,232 --> 00:06:00,318
I've ever come to a hobby.
103
00:06:00,401 --> 00:06:04,447
And when Max was little,
he-- he really loved it.
104
00:06:05,990 --> 00:06:08,117
We-- we used to go searching
at these antique stores.
105
00:06:08,201 --> 00:06:11,954
Sometimes we'd-- we'd build them
from-- from kits, you know.
106
00:06:12,038 --> 00:06:13,623
And we'd give them each a name,
107
00:06:13,706 --> 00:06:18,294
and we'd make up these stories
about the places it had been
108
00:06:18,377 --> 00:06:21,714
and the places that it would go,
and...
109
00:06:23,299 --> 00:06:25,009
How come
there's only one boat left?
110
00:06:26,719 --> 00:06:28,805
He-- he lost interest.
111
00:06:28,888 --> 00:06:30,932
Then when I moved up
to Brooklyn,
112
00:06:31,015 --> 00:06:33,976
I-- I just left the rest
of them behind.
113
00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:36,104
They...
114
00:06:36,187 --> 00:06:38,189
I-- I don't know,
they just started to feel
115
00:06:38,272 --> 00:06:40,983
a bit pathetic.
116
00:06:41,067 --> 00:06:43,945
Twenty-two-inch reminders
of all the places
117
00:06:44,028 --> 00:06:46,280
I'd never been
and I would never get to.
118
00:06:48,116 --> 00:06:50,910
The one that I saved,
I keep it in my office.
119
00:06:50,993 --> 00:06:53,287
I see it
over my patients' shoulders,
120
00:06:53,371 --> 00:06:55,957
so I sit and I listen
to them talk and...
121
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,292
you know, every single
one of them, they--
122
00:06:58,376 --> 00:07:01,129
No matter how sick
or screwed up they are, they--
123
00:07:03,005 --> 00:07:05,299
they all have a real passion.
124
00:07:05,383 --> 00:07:09,011
You find all your patients
have something you don't,
125
00:07:09,095 --> 00:07:10,638
something you're missing?
126
00:07:10,721 --> 00:07:14,142
I do feel that way a lot, yeah.
127
00:07:14,225 --> 00:07:17,770
Jesse-- he-- he loves
photography, he's got this...
128
00:07:18,896 --> 00:07:20,773
fierce attachment to his camera.
129
00:07:22,567 --> 00:07:25,278
And Frances has her--
her acting.
130
00:07:25,361 --> 00:07:26,696
Although it's hard
for her to admit,
131
00:07:26,779 --> 00:07:28,990
with all the guilt
she has around it,
132
00:07:29,073 --> 00:07:32,451
there's no question
of what it means to her.
133
00:07:33,828 --> 00:07:35,037
Other people--
134
00:07:35,121 --> 00:07:37,540
Kate devoted to her clinic.
135
00:07:38,416 --> 00:07:41,419
Now to Max's new father.
136
00:07:41,502 --> 00:07:45,339
I mean, even Gina.
Suddenly a novelist.
137
00:07:45,423 --> 00:07:47,884
As much as I fucking hate her
for what she's written,
138
00:07:47,967 --> 00:07:50,803
she-- she has found her,
139
00:07:51,637 --> 00:07:52,847
you know, her calling.
140
00:07:57,101 --> 00:08:00,730
And-- and then there's--
there's you.
141
00:08:00,813 --> 00:08:03,649
Me? Why do you include me?
142
00:08:05,526 --> 00:08:08,112
W-- What do you consider
my passion to be?
143
00:08:09,614 --> 00:08:13,576
Well, isn't it th-- this? Your--
144
00:08:14,911 --> 00:08:17,288
Your-- your work,
your-- your patients?
145
00:08:17,371 --> 00:08:19,540
I mean, not-- not that
there aren't other things
146
00:08:19,624 --> 00:08:23,377
that you might feel
strongly about,
147
00:08:23,461 --> 00:08:26,172
but from where I sit,
you seem to be...
148
00:08:27,256 --> 00:08:28,966
pretty engaged.
149
00:08:30,092 --> 00:08:31,135
Even in your...
150
00:08:32,803 --> 00:08:36,933
-cool detachment.
-Am I engaged or detached?
151
00:08:37,016 --> 00:08:38,726
I'd-- I'd say both.
152
00:08:40,186 --> 00:08:43,731
But-- but it is clear
that your work
153
00:08:43,814 --> 00:08:45,650
is very important to you.
154
00:08:46,609 --> 00:08:49,403
Am I-- am I wrong about that?
155
00:08:49,487 --> 00:08:52,073
My work is important to me.
156
00:08:52,156 --> 00:08:54,408
I'm just wondering
why you say that.
157
00:08:54,492 --> 00:08:57,036
How you arrive
at this impression.
158
00:09:01,457 --> 00:09:05,086
I went online, you know,
the other night.
159
00:09:05,169 --> 00:09:07,588
It's become kind
of a bad habit really.
160
00:09:08,798 --> 00:09:11,676
And I found myself
back at my desk,
161
00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:12,927
typing in this...
162
00:09:14,387 --> 00:09:18,849
thing on
Parkinson's/olfactory symptoms
163
00:09:18,933 --> 00:09:20,935
thing, and I--
164
00:09:21,018 --> 00:09:24,563
I just-- I stopped.
I made myself stop. And I-- I--
165
00:09:25,982 --> 00:09:29,402
I just happened
to type in your name instead.
166
00:09:29,485 --> 00:09:31,779
Did you know
there's another Adele Brouse?
167
00:09:33,030 --> 00:09:36,784
Also a therapist in Portland,
Oregon?
168
00:09:36,867 --> 00:09:38,119
I wasn't aware of that.
169
00:09:38,202 --> 00:09:41,289
Yeah, an M.S.W.
not-- not a psychiatrist.
170
00:09:41,372 --> 00:09:44,917
Not nearly as prolific as you.
171
00:09:45,001 --> 00:09:47,211
I mean, all this list
of stuff comes up.
172
00:09:47,295 --> 00:09:49,588
All the articles
that you've published over,
173
00:09:50,339 --> 00:09:51,674
you know.
174
00:09:51,757 --> 00:09:54,010
The amount of conferences
that you've attended,
175
00:09:54,510 --> 00:09:56,012
in...
176
00:09:56,095 --> 00:10:00,474
Chicago uh, Prague, Paris.
177
00:10:00,558 --> 00:10:02,810
What did seeing that
mean to you?
178
00:10:02,893 --> 00:10:06,439
Well, the last article
that I wrote was in 1998.
179
00:10:06,522 --> 00:10:07,648
Why have you stopped?
180
00:10:09,859 --> 00:10:13,904
Adele Saskia Brouse.
181
00:10:15,489 --> 00:10:17,450
Hmm. Is that Dutch?
182
00:10:19,493 --> 00:10:23,205
Wasn't-- Wasn't Rembrandt's wife
called Saskia?
183
00:10:26,876 --> 00:10:28,669
My mother's father
was from Holland.
184
00:10:30,171 --> 00:10:31,213
Wow.
185
00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:34,884
-I don't believe it.
-What?
186
00:10:34,967 --> 00:10:37,845
You just a--
You answered my question.
187
00:10:37,928 --> 00:10:40,056
You still haven't answered mine.
188
00:10:40,139 --> 00:10:42,099
Why have you stopped?
189
00:10:42,183 --> 00:10:44,977
Well, let's say that I--
190
00:10:46,562 --> 00:10:49,065
that I no longer share your...
191
00:10:51,108 --> 00:10:54,028
professional drive.
192
00:10:54,111 --> 00:10:57,365
My-- my work does feel
meaningful at times.
193
00:10:57,448 --> 00:10:59,325
When I'm in the room
with my patients,
194
00:10:59,408 --> 00:11:02,370
I'm still interested mostly,
but...
195
00:11:03,996 --> 00:11:06,540
am I passionate?
196
00:11:06,624 --> 00:11:09,293
You mean in the way
you think I am.
197
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,003
Were you ever?
198
00:11:12,338 --> 00:11:15,841
When I-- when I was your age
I-- I published.
199
00:11:15,925 --> 00:11:19,845
I-- I still thought
I could save people.
200
00:11:20,763 --> 00:11:22,098
Do you ever think that now?
201
00:11:23,974 --> 00:11:27,561
Monday, for 40 minutes,
I-- I had a...
202
00:11:28,687 --> 00:11:30,856
I had a flash of that feeling.
203
00:11:30,940 --> 00:11:32,566
What happened Monday?
204
00:11:32,650 --> 00:11:36,278
You-- you remember Sunil.
I-- I-- I told you about him.
205
00:11:36,362 --> 00:11:37,446
He-- he took--
206
00:11:38,239 --> 00:11:40,658
He took a-- a huge step.
207
00:11:40,741 --> 00:11:44,745
I'd been trying to get him
to express his anger
208
00:11:44,829 --> 00:11:46,497
and he'd been inching toward it.
209
00:11:46,580 --> 00:11:49,250
So, we were sitting in--
in my office, and we-- over tea,
210
00:11:49,333 --> 00:11:51,836
-and we were-- we were talk--
-You were talking over tea?
211
00:11:54,630 --> 00:11:56,048
It-- it makes him feel
212
00:11:56,132 --> 00:11:59,844
like we're having more
of a conversation than therapy.
213
00:11:59,927 --> 00:12:03,139
You know, he-- he's a guy
who-- who spends all his time
214
00:12:03,222 --> 00:12:05,808
feeling like an outsider
in what he perceives to be,
215
00:12:05,891 --> 00:12:08,310
this strange,
aggressive country.
216
00:12:08,394 --> 00:12:11,230
So, he-- he locks himself away
in his-- in his room.
217
00:12:11,313 --> 00:12:14,233
So, sharing tea with me
makes him,
218
00:12:14,316 --> 00:12:16,485
you know, draws him out
of his shell.
219
00:12:16,569 --> 00:12:18,612
Are you talking
about him or you?
220
00:12:18,696 --> 00:12:19,822
I'm talking about him.
221
00:12:21,949 --> 00:12:23,659
You know, last week you told me
that you didn't want
222
00:12:23,742 --> 00:12:28,539
to be my supervisor.
Now you kind of sit there,
223
00:12:28,622 --> 00:12:30,750
I think, silently supervising.
224
00:12:30,833 --> 00:12:32,710
It's kind of obvious
what you think.
225
00:12:32,793 --> 00:12:34,503
What do I think?
226
00:12:34,587 --> 00:12:36,380
He opened up to me.
227
00:12:36,464 --> 00:12:39,842
He-- he told me about this
deeply passionate affair
228
00:12:39,925 --> 00:12:41,343
that he had at university.
229
00:12:41,427 --> 00:12:43,846
Something he's never spoken of
before to anybody
230
00:12:43,929 --> 00:12:46,056
and that's haunted him
for years.
231
00:12:47,516 --> 00:12:49,310
You should have seen
how transformed he was
232
00:12:49,393 --> 00:12:51,353
when he spoke about
this love affair.
233
00:12:51,437 --> 00:12:52,980
It's like-- like he...
234
00:12:55,065 --> 00:12:56,275
he came alive.
235
00:12:57,985 --> 00:13:01,322
I mean, this man isn't--
He's not old.
236
00:13:01,405 --> 00:13:06,160
He felt passion at one point
in his life, and I thought,
237
00:13:06,243 --> 00:13:07,828
"why couldn't he have
that again?
238
00:13:08,662 --> 00:13:09,997
Why-- why couldn't he..."
239
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,624
DR. ADELE BROUSE:
Why couldn't he?
240
00:13:13,250 --> 00:13:15,503
I-- I don't know, it was--
241
00:13:17,004 --> 00:13:20,132
It was fleeting, I-- I--
what I-- what I saw in him,
242
00:13:20,216 --> 00:13:23,135
but a glimpse of--
of somebody different,
243
00:13:23,219 --> 00:13:24,345
you know?
244
00:13:26,138 --> 00:13:27,890
Ah.
245
00:13:27,973 --> 00:13:30,309
Maybe I'm-- I'm making
too much of it.
246
00:13:34,396 --> 00:13:37,858
This recent session with Sunil
had a powerful effect on you.
247
00:13:39,568 --> 00:13:43,447
You seem especially focused
on his early love affair.
248
00:13:43,531 --> 00:13:45,533
Well, it's a--
it's a pretty powerful story,
249
00:13:45,616 --> 00:13:47,409
-don't you think?
-Well, have you ever felt
250
00:13:47,493 --> 00:13:48,994
that passion?
251
00:13:49,078 --> 00:13:51,330
Romantic passion?
252
00:13:51,413 --> 00:13:54,041
My lunchtime session
with Wendy doesn't qualify?
253
00:13:54,124 --> 00:13:55,209
Not according to you.
254
00:14:02,341 --> 00:14:05,094
With Kate, I suppose.
255
00:14:07,012 --> 00:14:09,682
When I fell in love with her
all those years ago.
256
00:14:12,851 --> 00:14:16,480
Even with Wendy last year,
at the very beginning.
257
00:14:17,231 --> 00:14:18,440
But now I--
258
00:14:18,524 --> 00:14:20,693
I'm beginning to realize
I've got this pattern.
259
00:14:20,776 --> 00:14:23,237
I seek out people
who have-- who have--
260
00:14:24,572 --> 00:14:27,199
who have themselves
a passion for life
261
00:14:27,283 --> 00:14:29,660
and I feed off them instead.
262
00:14:29,743 --> 00:14:31,829
I allow them to...
263
00:14:33,205 --> 00:14:36,250
to feel for-- for both of us.
264
00:14:36,333 --> 00:14:39,962
You allowed both Wendy and Kate
to do your feeling for you?
265
00:14:40,045 --> 00:14:43,173
Hmm, yeah, at least, uh,
at least in part.
266
00:14:43,257 --> 00:14:44,883
Whatever emotion you do feel,
267
00:14:44,967 --> 00:14:48,679
do you openly express yourself
at the time?
268
00:14:48,762 --> 00:14:51,473
-Not entirely.
-You hold yourself back?
269
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:56,061
Is-- is that what you think?
270
00:14:56,145 --> 00:14:58,314
Earlier, when you were talking
about Sunil,
271
00:14:58,397 --> 00:15:01,900
you became engaged. Excited.
272
00:15:01,984 --> 00:15:04,486
As if you came alive yourself.
273
00:15:04,570 --> 00:15:07,698
You-- You spoke with energy.
You sat forward in your seat,
274
00:15:07,781 --> 00:15:09,158
and then you stopped yourself.
275
00:15:10,284 --> 00:15:11,952
It was striking.
276
00:15:12,036 --> 00:15:15,039
Does that description seem
accurate to you?
277
00:15:15,122 --> 00:15:19,335
Do you find you have
passionate or excited impulses
278
00:15:19,418 --> 00:15:21,295
but stop yourself
from expressing them?
279
00:15:24,757 --> 00:15:27,551
I made a similar observation
a couple of weeks ago...
280
00:15:28,886 --> 00:15:30,763
about you holding yourself back,
281
00:15:30,846 --> 00:15:33,849
and you had a strong reaction.
Do you remember?
282
00:15:33,932 --> 00:15:38,270
What-- What are you
talking about?
283
00:15:38,354 --> 00:15:40,856
You told me about the beginning
of your dream.
284
00:15:40,939 --> 00:15:45,069
Running toward open gates
along a wrought-iron fence...
285
00:15:45,152 --> 00:15:47,821
and then being dragged down,
paralyzed.
286
00:15:49,198 --> 00:15:51,367
I asked if you were stopping
yourself
287
00:15:51,450 --> 00:15:54,161
and you got very angry at me.
You insisted it was your father
288
00:15:54,244 --> 00:15:56,538
-who was stopping you.
-It was my school.
289
00:15:57,706 --> 00:15:58,749
I'm sorry?
290
00:15:59,917 --> 00:16:01,001
It was my school.
291
00:16:03,253 --> 00:16:05,214
The fence-- The-- the--
292
00:16:05,297 --> 00:16:07,132
The iron fence ran around
the outside
293
00:16:07,216 --> 00:16:09,009
of the boarding school
I went to.
294
00:16:09,093 --> 00:16:10,219
When was this?
295
00:16:11,303 --> 00:16:12,304
I--
296
00:16:13,389 --> 00:16:14,556
I was 12.
297
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,600
-You were Max's age.
-DR. PAUL WESTON: Yeah.
298
00:16:16,684 --> 00:16:21,063
Lancaster Royal Grammar School,
In the north of England.
299
00:16:21,146 --> 00:16:23,023
I-- I wasn't there
for very long,
300
00:16:23,107 --> 00:16:24,566
just a term and a half, but...
301
00:16:26,110 --> 00:16:28,153
Well, my parents
had already started
302
00:16:28,237 --> 00:16:30,781
to fight with each other, and...
303
00:16:30,864 --> 00:16:33,200
eh, it was
our last year in Dublin,
304
00:16:33,283 --> 00:16:34,993
and they sent me away to school.
305
00:16:35,077 --> 00:16:38,580
-Was that hard for you?
-No, not at all.
306
00:16:38,664 --> 00:16:40,666
Most people talk about
how miserable they are
307
00:16:40,749 --> 00:16:45,045
at boarding school,
but I was really happy there.
308
00:16:45,129 --> 00:16:47,256
But I was-- I was there
for less than six months
309
00:16:47,339 --> 00:16:49,091
when my father got...
310
00:16:49,174 --> 00:16:52,386
...got his position
at Union Memorial in Baltimore.
311
00:16:52,469 --> 00:16:55,514
Two weeks later we landed in...
312
00:16:56,974 --> 00:16:58,016
in America.
313
00:16:59,268 --> 00:17:01,353
Wow. I'm--
314
00:17:01,437 --> 00:17:04,314
I'm sure that's part
of the dream the-- um,
315
00:17:04,398 --> 00:17:08,402
you know, re-- reliving
being torn away from school
316
00:17:08,485 --> 00:17:10,320
by my father.
317
00:17:10,404 --> 00:17:12,906
From-- from that feeling
that I had,
318
00:17:12,990 --> 00:17:15,200
that great feeling of--
319
00:17:16,618 --> 00:17:18,912
of contentment
that I found there.
320
00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:22,416
Can you tell me what was so nice
about the boarding school?
321
00:17:22,499 --> 00:17:24,293
The place was--
322
00:17:24,376 --> 00:17:28,464
was just filled with--
with activity.
323
00:17:28,547 --> 00:17:31,717
There were... scores of clubs
324
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,011
and-- and things
that you could do,
325
00:17:34,094 --> 00:17:36,221
teams you could sign up for.
326
00:17:36,305 --> 00:17:38,140
Used to play rugby,
327
00:17:38,223 --> 00:17:40,684
cross-country running,
the school newspaper.
328
00:17:40,768 --> 00:17:42,394
I-- It was just...
329
00:17:42,478 --> 00:17:47,524
all these things my-- my father
tore me away from.
330
00:17:47,608 --> 00:17:50,444
Cross-country running.
Did you run at school?
331
00:17:50,527 --> 00:17:52,780
Well, I was going
to join the team.
332
00:17:52,863 --> 00:17:54,782
Did you play rugby?
333
00:17:54,865 --> 00:17:58,118
-Join the paper?
-Well, I-- I was planning to.
334
00:17:59,870 --> 00:18:01,330
I'm not sure
what you're--
335
00:18:01,413 --> 00:18:03,373
what you're getting at.
The-- the point I'm making
336
00:18:03,457 --> 00:18:05,751
is that I-- I was happy there.
337
00:18:05,834 --> 00:18:08,170
Actively engaged.
Content.
338
00:18:09,505 --> 00:18:11,465
It's interesting to hear
you speak of the school
339
00:18:11,548 --> 00:18:13,467
in this way,
because in your dream,
340
00:18:13,550 --> 00:18:16,053
you're running outside
the gates.
341
00:18:16,136 --> 00:18:19,264
When you told me the dream,
you described a feeling
342
00:18:19,348 --> 00:18:22,726
of anticipation, of excitement.
343
00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:24,603
Not of contentment.
344
00:18:24,686 --> 00:18:27,940
I mean, to me, that difference
seems significant.
345
00:18:28,023 --> 00:18:31,068
You say you planned
to join the newspaper?
346
00:18:31,151 --> 00:18:33,654
Well, I-- I hadn't been
there that long.
347
00:18:33,737 --> 00:18:35,531
Semester and a half?
348
00:18:35,614 --> 00:18:36,990
Surely that's enough time
349
00:18:37,074 --> 00:18:38,951
to join the paper
if you'd wanted to.
350
00:18:39,034 --> 00:18:40,953
No, I'm-- I'm just saying
that if I had stayed,
351
00:18:41,036 --> 00:18:43,872
I-- I-- I would have thrived.
352
00:18:43,956 --> 00:18:46,792
It was my father moving here,
that--
353
00:18:46,875 --> 00:18:49,044
that just took away
that possibility.
354
00:18:49,127 --> 00:18:50,796
And what did you find here
instead?
355
00:18:50,879 --> 00:18:54,466
The move to Baltimore marked
the end of my childhood.
356
00:18:54,550 --> 00:18:56,760
My father walked out,
my mother got sicker,
357
00:18:56,844 --> 00:19:00,180
and I was--
I was forced to, uh...
358
00:19:01,139 --> 00:19:02,516
to take care of her.
359
00:19:02,599 --> 00:19:04,810
The beginning
of a very difficult period,
360
00:19:04,893 --> 00:19:07,437
and your father bears
a great deal
361
00:19:07,521 --> 00:19:09,773
-of the responsibility.
-Well, yeah, who else?
362
00:19:09,857 --> 00:19:13,443
My-- my mother, she was--
she was ill.
363
00:19:13,527 --> 00:19:14,987
I understand.
364
00:19:15,070 --> 00:19:18,156
You mentioned more than once
how strongly you identify
365
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,410
with Sunil's alienation
in this country, that--
366
00:19:21,493 --> 00:19:24,329
that you continue
to feel it at times.
367
00:19:24,413 --> 00:19:27,457
And I imagine you felt it
when you first arrived.
368
00:19:28,667 --> 00:19:33,255
Yes, I-- I went
from Lancaster Royal Grammar...
369
00:19:34,590 --> 00:19:36,717
to P.S. 233.
370
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,804
From beautiful,
Gothic stone buildings
371
00:19:40,888 --> 00:19:45,434
and open green fields,
to brick and asphalt.
372
00:19:45,517 --> 00:19:46,768
That's tough for rugby.
373
00:19:46,852 --> 00:19:50,272
No.
The kids played stickball.
374
00:19:50,355 --> 00:19:53,859
And I remember watching them,
with such...
375
00:19:53,942 --> 00:19:57,529
determination from--
from the edge of the schoolyard.
376
00:19:57,613 --> 00:19:59,615
Determination?
What does that mean?
377
00:19:59,698 --> 00:20:01,366
I-- I was--
378
00:20:01,450 --> 00:20:04,536
I was determined
to decode them.
379
00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:06,413
You know, to figure them out.
380
00:20:06,496 --> 00:20:08,916
How to play their game,
how to fit in.
381
00:20:08,999 --> 00:20:10,959
Because everything
about them was alien.
382
00:20:11,043 --> 00:20:13,795
The music that they listened to,
the clothes that they wore,
383
00:20:13,879 --> 00:20:15,964
even their curse words.
384
00:20:16,048 --> 00:20:20,177
And the girls-- the girls,
they--
385
00:20:20,260 --> 00:20:21,428
Forget it, they--
386
00:20:21,511 --> 00:20:23,597
they wouldn't even look
in my direction.
387
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,017
You stayed on the edge
of that schoolyard as well,
388
00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:28,560
outside the gates.
389
00:20:28,644 --> 00:20:31,730
I was trying to join in.
I was trying to find my way.
390
00:20:32,314 --> 00:20:33,565
And I just--
391
00:20:34,608 --> 00:20:36,234
I just didn't get a chance to.
392
00:20:36,318 --> 00:20:38,111
You were pulled away,
again.
393
00:20:38,195 --> 00:20:40,113
Mm-hm, yeah.
394
00:20:40,197 --> 00:20:41,949
How long was your family
in America
395
00:20:42,032 --> 00:20:43,450
before your father walked out?
396
00:20:45,035 --> 00:20:46,536
Eighteen months.
397
00:20:46,620 --> 00:20:48,580
A year and a half.
398
00:20:48,664 --> 00:20:52,751
Ah okay, I-- I get the point
you're trying to make.
399
00:20:52,834 --> 00:20:55,837
That I had time,
like at boarding school,
400
00:20:55,921 --> 00:20:57,673
to-- to join in.
401
00:20:57,756 --> 00:21:00,175
But, see, the thing is,
my father was--
402
00:21:00,259 --> 00:21:02,010
He was working
really long hours.
403
00:21:02,094 --> 00:21:05,097
And my mother
was already unwell.
404
00:21:05,180 --> 00:21:07,349
You were expected
to stay home with her.
405
00:21:07,432 --> 00:21:10,060
Yes, I was. And I did.
406
00:21:12,646 --> 00:21:13,689
Yeah.
407
00:21:15,983 --> 00:21:18,276
-It was a terrible blow.
-Was it?
408
00:21:19,319 --> 00:21:20,529
What do you mean?
409
00:21:20,612 --> 00:21:23,740
Was it a terrible blow
or was it also a relief?
410
00:21:23,824 --> 00:21:25,993
-I was trying to be a good son.
-I understand that.
411
00:21:26,076 --> 00:21:28,704
-Is that so awful?
-Of course it's not awful.
412
00:21:28,787 --> 00:21:30,998
What I'm saying
is that it may have been easier
413
00:21:31,081 --> 00:21:32,499
than the alternative.
414
00:21:32,582 --> 00:21:34,584
What, do you think I wanted
to spend my teenage years
415
00:21:34,668 --> 00:21:37,629
with my chronically ill mother?
416
00:21:37,713 --> 00:21:39,214
I mean...
417
00:21:42,259 --> 00:21:44,928
The first day I met you,
you insisted,
418
00:21:45,012 --> 00:21:47,264
that you and Gina
had it all figured out.
419
00:21:48,265 --> 00:21:49,725
That your need to save people
420
00:21:49,808 --> 00:21:51,435
started with
your mother's illness.
421
00:21:51,518 --> 00:21:53,895
And does that seem
far-fetched to you?
422
00:21:53,979 --> 00:21:55,230
It doesn't.
423
00:21:55,313 --> 00:21:57,649
But I think caring
for your mother was also a way
424
00:21:57,733 --> 00:21:58,859
of saving yourself.
425
00:22:00,068 --> 00:22:02,404
It was miserable, yes.
426
00:22:02,487 --> 00:22:06,491
But it was also safe,
and familiar.
427
00:22:06,575 --> 00:22:08,326
And it kept you
from having to find
428
00:22:08,410 --> 00:22:10,704
any real connections elsewhere,
429
00:22:10,787 --> 00:22:14,416
from risking yourself
in the outside world.
430
00:22:15,792 --> 00:22:18,670
And it also had the convenience
of allowing you to blame
431
00:22:18,754 --> 00:22:20,130
it all on your father.
432
00:22:21,798 --> 00:22:23,884
And it's really not so different
from what you do
433
00:22:23,967 --> 00:22:25,635
to this day, is it?
434
00:22:25,719 --> 00:22:30,515
You cloister yourself
in your apartment,
435
00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:33,894
or your burrow-like office.
436
00:22:33,977 --> 00:22:36,063
You convince yourself
you're sick.
437
00:22:36,146 --> 00:22:38,440
You accept a growing paralysis,
438
00:22:38,523 --> 00:22:41,026
rather than taking
a risk of finding
439
00:22:41,109 --> 00:22:45,113
where or towards whom
your real passion lies.
440
00:22:45,197 --> 00:22:47,157
Is it any wonder
you haven't found
441
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,492
what drives you yet?
442
00:22:51,620 --> 00:22:53,163
You're 57 years old.
443
00:22:53,246 --> 00:22:55,415
At a certain point
you have to move past
444
00:22:55,499 --> 00:22:57,626
the stories that you've assigned
to your life.
445
00:22:59,169 --> 00:23:03,715
These steadfast explanations
you've settled on years ago.
446
00:23:05,384 --> 00:23:07,302
You have to look
at yourself again...
447
00:23:08,637 --> 00:23:12,057
for real answers.
You have to take that risk.
448
00:23:15,352 --> 00:23:16,436
Well...
449
00:23:17,521 --> 00:23:18,897
you're--
450
00:23:18,980 --> 00:23:22,317
You're so young
and yet you're so confident.
451
00:23:23,026 --> 00:23:24,528
About what?
452
00:23:24,611 --> 00:23:26,988
You just seem so certain
that you're right.
453
00:23:28,907 --> 00:23:31,326
You see everything clearly.
454
00:23:32,744 --> 00:23:34,538
Do you think I see you clearly?
455
00:23:35,622 --> 00:23:38,458
Because I'd like
to see you more clearly,
456
00:23:38,542 --> 00:23:41,920
but I find you're fairly expert
at obscuring the view.
457
00:23:45,257 --> 00:23:47,509
That's not the first time
you've heard that, is it?
458
00:23:48,426 --> 00:23:49,761
In so many words.
459
00:23:52,264 --> 00:23:56,351
I-- I told you earlier
that I was just...
460
00:23:56,434 --> 00:23:58,061
distracted when I was...
461
00:23:59,354 --> 00:24:00,689
with Wendy.
462
00:24:00,772 --> 00:24:04,484
And you asked me
what I was thinking about.
463
00:24:04,568 --> 00:24:06,027
And I said I didn't know.
464
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,363
You asked me if I...
465
00:24:09,739 --> 00:24:13,994
if I hold myself back,
and I didn't answer.
466
00:24:16,872 --> 00:24:18,331
Well, I do hold myself back.
467
00:24:20,750 --> 00:24:21,835
Do you know why?
468
00:24:28,717 --> 00:24:29,926
I was thinking about you.
469
00:24:36,016 --> 00:24:37,058
I hear your voice.
470
00:24:39,811 --> 00:24:40,812
A lot.
471
00:24:43,982 --> 00:24:46,318
I admire your clarity. Your--
472
00:24:47,611 --> 00:24:48,653
You see me.
473
00:24:51,323 --> 00:24:53,783
I noticed that you don't--
you don't wear a wedding ring.
474
00:24:54,743 --> 00:24:56,244
And-- and--
475
00:24:56,328 --> 00:24:58,371
I've imagined
that you might understand
476
00:24:58,455 --> 00:24:59,664
something of my life.
477
00:25:01,833 --> 00:25:04,419
My loneliness.
478
00:25:10,175 --> 00:25:11,927
I-- I know, I know.
479
00:25:12,010 --> 00:25:15,055
Textbook transference.
I know it's--
480
00:25:15,138 --> 00:25:17,432
it's ridiculous. I know.
Fantasy.
481
00:25:18,683 --> 00:25:20,644
And it's my comeuppance,
482
00:25:20,727 --> 00:25:23,521
for being on the receiving end
of these sorts of feelings
483
00:25:23,605 --> 00:25:26,691
but... you did ask.
484
00:25:28,818 --> 00:25:30,111
I'm glad you answered.
485
00:25:32,072 --> 00:25:33,740
You look...
486
00:25:33,823 --> 00:25:36,368
you look kind of shocked.
487
00:25:36,451 --> 00:25:37,619
Why do you say that?
488
00:25:41,331 --> 00:25:43,291
Nothing.
489
00:25:43,375 --> 00:25:46,127
Do you recognize
what you're doing?
490
00:25:46,211 --> 00:25:48,588
You're holding yourself back
again.
491
00:25:50,048 --> 00:25:51,883
As soon as you express
your feelings,
492
00:25:51,967 --> 00:25:53,885
you dismiss them immediately.
493
00:25:55,387 --> 00:25:57,597
Call it ridiculous,
offer an excuse.
494
00:25:59,641 --> 00:26:03,853
What-- what exactly
are you saying?
495
00:26:03,937 --> 00:26:08,024
I'm saying that between now
and next session,
496
00:26:08,108 --> 00:26:10,694
you may want to think
about why you do that.
497
00:26:11,528 --> 00:26:12,737
Are you telling me...
498
00:26:14,572 --> 00:26:16,825
-Are you trying to say--
-We have to stop.
499
00:26:19,286 --> 00:26:21,997
But let's pick this up
next week.
500
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,332
This will be an excellent place
to start.
501
00:26:26,418 --> 00:26:27,419
Okay.
502
00:26:35,427 --> 00:26:36,678
We'll talk more next week.
503
00:26:39,931 --> 00:26:41,182
Have a good weekend.
35196
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