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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,000 Something I wrestle with still to this day. 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,060 Why I went along with something that crazy. 3 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:14,520 There's a big bomb scare on the south shore of Lake Tahoe. 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,880 Two men posing as computer technicians trundled a box covered with blankets 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,600 lettered IBM into a casino yesterday and left the box there. 6 00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:27,780 This thing was a massive device. It is a building killer. 7 00:00:29,940 --> 00:00:31,380 The whole idea was incredible. 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,640 We all knew exactly what we were supposed to do. 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,280 I kept it secret. I didn't tell anybody. 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,340 You start doing crazy things to get attention. 11 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,480 With the suspected bomb, a note demanding $3 million. 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,840 $3 million to tell how to disarm the bomb. 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,820 Now the search is on for the criminals who planted it. Who are we dealing with? 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:01,720 And why is this casino across the street the richest gambling casino in the 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:02,720 world? 16 00:01:03,950 --> 00:01:06,770 I was betting against them ever getting that money. 17 00:01:09,130 --> 00:01:11,270 It's a far -fetched game. 18 00:01:12,570 --> 00:01:16,070 You would never think anybody would pull that off. 19 00:01:19,450 --> 00:01:21,010 The nightmare was just beginning. 20 00:01:21,550 --> 00:01:22,790 There was no way out. 21 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,740 Tahoe was a relatively small town. 22 00:01:42,500 --> 00:01:44,200 Kind of a wide open atmosphere. 23 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,340 I'm not saying, you know, there were gunfights, but you didn't have to worry 24 00:01:49,340 --> 00:01:52,640 about restrictions, regulations. 25 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,080 It was an atmosphere that was related to fun. 26 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,980 It takes a lot to drag people away from the gambling tables of State Line Nevada 27 00:02:01,980 --> 00:02:03,720 on the shores of Lake Tahoe. 28 00:02:04,140 --> 00:02:08,520 even when they're told a bomb could go off. A strange -looking device, thought 29 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,020 at first to be a computer, was found in Harvey's Hotel Casino, along with a list 30 00:02:13,020 --> 00:02:13,959 of demands. 31 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,600 Officials faced two questions. Is it really a bomb? 32 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,320 And if it is, what do they do with it? 33 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:29,920 On August 26th of 1980, I got a call from the sheriff's office. 34 00:02:32,060 --> 00:02:38,250 I arrived at... Harvey's Casino, where I was met by Captain Danny Daniels, who 35 00:02:38,250 --> 00:02:39,750 was the bomb squad commander. 36 00:02:42,810 --> 00:02:46,530 I was at home. My wife and daughter were going to go on a camping trip. 37 00:02:47,070 --> 00:02:51,070 The phone rang, and they said that there's a device that they found at 38 00:02:51,710 --> 00:02:55,310 I threw as much stuff out of the truck as I could and drove over there. 39 00:02:55,610 --> 00:02:58,230 When the alarm goes off, you're called. That's what you do. 40 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,900 I thought, it'll be in a bag, it'll be in a suitcase, it'll be relatively easy. 41 00:03:03,980 --> 00:03:07,780 And then we walked into the second floor and it was huge. 42 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:17,100 We didn't know if it was a real explosive device or not when we 43 00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:17,879 at it. 44 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,900 I'd never seen anything so sinister in my life. It was absolutely frightening. 45 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,130 But the first thing that runs through your mind is that if this... container 46 00:03:28,130 --> 00:03:30,330 full of explosives, you know, we're in trouble. 47 00:03:31,810 --> 00:03:35,850 According to police officials here, they tell us that the bomb apparently is 48 00:03:35,850 --> 00:03:40,630 near that particular window right up there, within 10 or 20 feet of it from 49 00:03:40,630 --> 00:03:41,630 we've been told here. 50 00:03:42,770 --> 00:03:48,310 Along with the suspected bomb, a note which said the box held 1 ,000 sticks of 51 00:03:48,310 --> 00:03:50,570 dynamite, wired and extremely sensitive. 52 00:03:51,470 --> 00:03:55,970 Tahoe was a thriving area with a lot of people, and there were. 53 00:03:56,500 --> 00:03:59,480 thousands of vacations in that casino. 54 00:04:00,700 --> 00:04:04,780 I was sound asleep at 8 .30 and they came through pounding at the doors and 55 00:04:04,780 --> 00:04:08,140 said that they had a security problem. They had blocked all the streets and we 56 00:04:08,140 --> 00:04:12,260 wondered what was going on. And we left everything else there and we got out of 57 00:04:12,260 --> 00:04:13,260 the hotel. 58 00:04:13,820 --> 00:04:18,820 One of the things I'm asked often is how much damage can an explosive do? How 59 00:04:18,820 --> 00:04:22,760 many people can it kill? A thousand pounds in an open field, not going to do 60 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,480 much. A thousand pounds in a building. 61 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,240 You can devastate a portion of a city. 62 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:34,040 So getting those casinos closed and getting the people out of there was 63 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,420 important. Even though the hotel was evacuated, people were trying to get in. 64 00:04:38,820 --> 00:04:41,820 Serious police officers weren't kidding when they kept pushing back crowds. 65 00:04:42,540 --> 00:04:47,480 About a dozen buses were sent in to clear the area, and hotels along the 66 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,760 were boarding up. In a town where people know more than a little about odds, no 67 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:52,940 one is taking any chances. 68 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,080 Once the building was secured, we got everyone out of there except for the 69 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:01,080 squad. 70 00:05:01,220 --> 00:05:05,420 And we started setting up, photographing the thing and trying to document as 71 00:05:05,420 --> 00:05:06,420 much as we could. 72 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,560 So what you're trying to do is you've got a metal box of mystery. 73 00:05:10,020 --> 00:05:12,420 And you want to know what's inside that metal box. 74 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,460 So the tools were limited. You have a stethoscope, you've got some x -rays. 75 00:05:16,540 --> 00:05:19,260 You're not going to start poking around and flipping switches. That would not be 76 00:05:19,260 --> 00:05:20,400 well advised. 77 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,560 So then we started setting up to x -ray this thing. 78 00:05:26,340 --> 00:05:30,100 And we were able to identify some of the contents in the top box. 79 00:05:30,780 --> 00:05:34,920 We can see wires coming from the top box going down to the bottom box. 80 00:05:36,260 --> 00:05:41,600 Looking at the x -rays, ultimately we determined that this was the real thing. 81 00:05:42,860 --> 00:05:44,360 Holy shit, this is real. 82 00:05:44,980 --> 00:05:46,200 That's a bomb. 83 00:05:47,740 --> 00:05:51,600 Demolitions experts have been working to decide just how they can best disarm 84 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,360 the device, which they say is definitely a bomb. 85 00:05:55,850 --> 00:06:00,590 The best possible situation in working with bombs is distance. 86 00:06:01,230 --> 00:06:03,070 You want to move the device. 87 00:06:03,750 --> 00:06:07,050 You know, we had dealt with smaller devices and been successful. 88 00:06:07,870 --> 00:06:11,690 But, you know, when I saw the size of it and the switches and everything and the 89 00:06:11,690 --> 00:06:15,110 fact that there were bullseye bubbling levels on every corner. 90 00:06:15,690 --> 00:06:19,930 We realized right then that we were not going to move this device. 91 00:06:20,710 --> 00:06:25,190 And going through my head is the fact that I got to find out who put it there. 92 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:31,700 in wise lake tahoe this 93 00:06:31,700 --> 00:06:38,120 was a felt cover 94 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:44,040 that was on one of the gaming tables inside of harvey's i found this on ebay 95 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:50,620 which is where i get a lot of my rare collectibles also collected assorted 96 00:06:50,620 --> 00:06:55,740 photos and clippings this is Harvey Gross, the owner of the casino. 97 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,700 A one -time butcher, Harvey Gross got his start at Lake Tahoe in 1946 with a 98 00:07:02,700 --> 00:07:04,960 roadside cafe where his wife did the cooking. 99 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,440 Harvey expanded it over the next several years into Harvey's Wagon Wheel Saloon, 100 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:17,080 and in 1963, he completed an 11 -story hotel tower, which was the tallest hotel 101 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:18,880 tower at the time in Lake Tahoe. 102 00:07:19,660 --> 00:07:24,560 Well, we feel that the future is tremendous up here. Ample room for 103 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,380 the next 20 years is tremendous. 104 00:07:26,860 --> 00:07:31,120 As opposed to the stereotype of mobsters running casinos, Harvey brought 105 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,340 legitimacy to the casino business in Lake Tahoe. 106 00:07:39,300 --> 00:07:42,660 Picture of my grandparents, Harvey and Llewellyn Gross. 107 00:07:45,340 --> 00:07:47,060 Harvey Gross in his office. 108 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:49,080 Pretty chipper. 109 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,080 As long as you weren't making his day a bad day, you were probably okay. 110 00:07:54,240 --> 00:08:00,080 But, yeah, kind of brings back a lot of memories. You know, just all the family 111 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,880 that was involved in this business over the years. 112 00:08:04,660 --> 00:08:06,020 And there was competition. 113 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:07,720 Always was competition. 114 00:08:09,220 --> 00:08:11,700 Everyone knows who the big men are here. 115 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,560 It's an open secret that no love is lost between the owner of Harrah's Club. 116 00:08:17,070 --> 00:08:19,550 and the proprietor of Harvey's Wagon Wheel. 117 00:08:20,270 --> 00:08:24,070 Bill Harrow was direct competition with my grandfather. 118 00:08:25,110 --> 00:08:27,350 They were directly across the street. 119 00:08:27,750 --> 00:08:33,710 They would compete toe -to -toe for customers, but we had no idea who would 120 00:08:33,710 --> 00:08:34,710 something like this. 121 00:08:36,169 --> 00:08:39,450 There was a lot of unknowns at the time and a lot of fear. 122 00:08:44,810 --> 00:08:48,590 Harvey's Casino has been empty since an object believed to be a bomb was 123 00:08:48,590 --> 00:08:50,050 delivered in a photocopier box. 124 00:08:50,310 --> 00:08:53,570 An extortion note said it is a powerful, sensitive device. 125 00:08:55,910 --> 00:08:58,550 This was the ransom note that was found with the bomb. 126 00:08:59,870 --> 00:09:02,290 Stern warning to the management and bomb squad. 127 00:09:02,730 --> 00:09:04,730 Do not move or tilt this bomb. 128 00:09:05,570 --> 00:09:07,530 Don't try to flood or gas the bomb. 129 00:09:07,830 --> 00:09:10,950 There is a float switch and an atmospheric pressure switch. 130 00:09:11,170 --> 00:09:12,890 Both are attached to detonators. 131 00:09:13,450 --> 00:09:14,830 Do not try to take it apart. 132 00:09:15,090 --> 00:09:19,410 The flathead screws are also attached to triggers, and as much as one -quarter 133 00:09:19,410 --> 00:09:22,010 to three -quarters of a turn will cause an explosion. 134 00:09:23,070 --> 00:09:27,430 The letter said it had eight different ways for it to go off, so that put it in 135 00:09:27,430 --> 00:09:32,730 a category that I certainly had never seen and that nobody had ever seen. 136 00:09:33,890 --> 00:09:37,950 All the usual techniques went out the window, so that was scary. 137 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,680 Is there some reason to believe that they had some training in electronics 138 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:54,800 because of the sophistication of the device? 139 00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:00,760 Absolutely. The bomb experts told us that this device was the most 140 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,660 sophisticated, homemade bombing device they have ever experienced and ever 141 00:10:04,660 --> 00:10:09,740 witnessed. I also had the issue of the extortion payment. 142 00:10:09,940 --> 00:10:12,520 He wanted $3 million in a helicopter. 143 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,940 He said, we had 24 hours to deliver that ransom. 144 00:10:18,670 --> 00:10:24,590 The bomb had been delivered around 5 o 'clock in the morning of the 26th, and 145 00:10:24,590 --> 00:10:27,570 that was one of the reasons we had to move this along. 146 00:10:28,070 --> 00:10:31,730 And still we didn't have a motive other than a ransom. 147 00:10:35,450 --> 00:10:39,230 Are we dealing with just some crank, or are we dealing with somebody that's very 148 00:10:39,230 --> 00:10:40,230 serious? 149 00:10:40,630 --> 00:10:42,870 Somebody that wants to cause a large loss of life? 150 00:10:44,250 --> 00:10:46,630 You've got to establish the means, motive, and the opportunity. 151 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,440 In order to come up with a suspect 152 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:56,180 You Soviet crisis and 153 00:10:56,180 --> 00:11:00,660 from our desk in Washington Frank Reynolds in straight -line, Nevada on 154 00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:04,740 south shore of Lake Tahoe There is a powerful bomb in one of the major 155 00:11:04,740 --> 00:11:08,900 casinos there and police and demolition experts are preparing to deal with it 156 00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:15,000 Here is a report from Tom Shell I can I distinctly recall 157 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,980 seeing on the news that the bomb got into Harvey. 158 00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:22,720 And I immediately called my brother and I said, we're screwed. 159 00:11:23,140 --> 00:11:24,260 What are we going to do with it? 160 00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:28,140 The authorities have appealed to the extortionists to make contact 161 00:11:28,140 --> 00:11:31,280 so they can avoid a potentially disastrous explosion. 162 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,120 There it was on TV. Top news story of the day. 163 00:11:36,940 --> 00:11:38,380 He had actually made it happen. 164 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,440 I know who was responsible for all of this. 165 00:11:42,170 --> 00:11:44,550 because my brother and I were forced to help him. 166 00:11:54,390 --> 00:11:58,690 I don't even know why I still have this album or how I wound up with it, but 167 00:11:58,690 --> 00:12:01,990 it's stuck around through all the movies and all the years. 168 00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:05,110 The John Burgess family. 169 00:12:07,290 --> 00:12:09,510 The picture of... Is that Grandma? 170 00:12:09,810 --> 00:12:10,810 That's Grandma. 171 00:12:12,460 --> 00:12:13,460 of my hair. 172 00:12:13,940 --> 00:12:17,080 We all kind of look like each other. Like, you look like your dad. I look 173 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,020 you. I got your nose. 174 00:12:20,020 --> 00:12:21,040 What do you mean my nose? 175 00:12:22,940 --> 00:12:29,880 This is just all articles about the court trial and the way it went. It 176 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:30,880 went on for years. 177 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,000 You know, I couldn't get on with my life until all this was over. 178 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:37,600 Are you guys ever in these? 179 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,520 Yeah, well, that's a picture of my brother, but it says my name underneath. 180 00:12:41,020 --> 00:12:44,420 And then they tried a love -hate relationship between father and son. 181 00:12:44,660 --> 00:12:46,240 A love -hate relationship? 182 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,320 I guess, yeah. Didn't y 'all just not like him? 183 00:12:48,780 --> 00:12:51,900 Well, it's a weird deal. It's your parent. No matter how bad your parent 184 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,200 it's still your parent. 185 00:12:55,660 --> 00:12:59,660 What do you know about your dad's involvement in all of that, in the 186 00:13:00,020 --> 00:13:00,979 Not much. 187 00:13:00,980 --> 00:13:04,880 I mean, he doesn't like to talk about it. Sometimes he will. 188 00:13:05,220 --> 00:13:08,100 I don't think he, like, helped build the bomb. 189 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,300 Because he would have told me if he did, but did you help build the bomb? 190 00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:20,280 We haven't really had an in -depth discussion on the mechanics of what I 191 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:21,980 involved in and what I wasn't involved in. 192 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:26,880 A 193 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:34,660 dad 194 00:13:34,660 --> 00:13:37,300 should be, you know, your guide. 195 00:13:39,610 --> 00:13:44,030 and take care and giving you an environment where you can thrive. 196 00:13:44,450 --> 00:13:47,590 And he had that opportunity, a successful millionaire. 197 00:13:49,710 --> 00:13:52,850 It all came crashing down for him, and he was going to get even. 198 00:13:55,570 --> 00:13:58,490 If you wronged him, he extricated revenge. 199 00:13:59,470 --> 00:14:04,870 He did it with people that worked for him, that worked with him, his ex -wife. 200 00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:08,280 There was never any good outcome dealing with Big John. 201 00:14:15,660 --> 00:14:17,420 You know, I was 18 at the time. 202 00:14:18,780 --> 00:14:24,780 Came home from work one day and my dad said, I got to talk to you. And he was 203 00:14:24,780 --> 00:14:26,920 broke and lost all his money. 204 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:33,980 He just said, I'm going to build a bomb and bomb Harvey's and get my money back. 205 00:14:37,230 --> 00:14:38,450 It was like a joke. 206 00:14:39,090 --> 00:14:43,530 You would never think anybody, let alone your father talking to you, would even 207 00:14:43,530 --> 00:14:44,730 have a plan to make that succeed. 208 00:14:46,130 --> 00:14:51,290 He says, I've got to keep it a secret, so I need you and your brother to help 209 00:14:51,290 --> 00:14:52,249 with this. 210 00:14:52,250 --> 00:14:54,390 And you need to call your brother and ask him. 211 00:15:02,590 --> 00:15:04,910 My name is Kelly Cooper. 212 00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:07,500 And I was John Jr.'s girlfriend. 213 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,060 I was only 14 when I met him at Little Okie's, which is a motocross place. 214 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:23,720 You know, John and Jim and all the guys would be racing motorcycles, and all of 215 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,740 us girls would be yelling and having a good time. 216 00:15:28,620 --> 00:15:32,080 I would say it was love at first sight for both of us, I think. 217 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:34,359 John Jr. 218 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,380 was not a good influence on me. 219 00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:39,260 He dropped out of school and had his own place. 220 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,540 He drove a van, which is also a parent's nightmare. 221 00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:44,780 You can think about that. 222 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,340 And, well, you know, crazy things happen in vans. 223 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,880 But then Jim was kind of known as the goody -two -shoe kind of guy. 224 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,760 I've known Jimmy since 1973. 225 00:16:03,229 --> 00:16:04,870 He's like my adopted little brother. 226 00:16:05,410 --> 00:16:07,970 He was just a naturally gifted rider. 227 00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:10,790 He had the potential to be really good. 228 00:16:13,230 --> 00:16:17,890 I got sponsored in my motocross racing and was doing well there. I was a little 229 00:16:17,890 --> 00:16:20,370 bit better than my brother, and it was a big issue. 230 00:16:20,930 --> 00:16:24,590 You know, he talked about his brother some, but they were completely different 231 00:16:24,590 --> 00:16:29,370 worlds. Little John did drugs, that kind of stuff, and Jimmy was not that way at 232 00:16:29,370 --> 00:16:30,370 all. 233 00:16:44,910 --> 00:16:46,490 I skimmed through that book. 234 00:16:47,870 --> 00:16:53,610 I probably didn't read all of it because with my brothers and my relationship, 235 00:16:53,890 --> 00:16:56,770 it was always a lot of fighting. 236 00:16:59,490 --> 00:17:04,369 I think that is one of the best places to get his voice since he's no longer 237 00:17:04,369 --> 00:17:05,369 here. 238 00:17:06,429 --> 00:17:10,790 And so I was in a rendezvous place about an hour away from my brother and my 239 00:17:10,790 --> 00:17:15,829 dad. So when the sun came up, I decided to just go back and see what happened. 240 00:17:16,109 --> 00:17:17,750 So on the way back, I stopped. 241 00:17:20,970 --> 00:17:23,190 I will 242 00:17:23,190 --> 00:17:30,590 try 243 00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:32,950 to recreate, to the best of my memory, 244 00:17:34,380 --> 00:17:36,120 what would consume three and a half years of my life. 245 00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:41,360 I was in the kitchen fixing breakfast for me and Kelly on a Saturday morning, 246 00:17:41,620 --> 00:17:48,020 sitting on the porch with the brother I'd avoided since the day I moved out of 247 00:17:48,020 --> 00:17:49,280 Big John's house three years before. 248 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:56,440 When Jim came to his apartment that first day, he walked in, I was there. 249 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:57,800 told John Jr. 250 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,920 what their dad's big plan was. 251 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,580 Jim said, He says he's going to blow up Harvey's Casino. 252 00:18:05,260 --> 00:18:07,700 I said, you'll go to prison for the rest of your life. Are you kidding? 253 00:18:07,940 --> 00:18:09,800 For your dad, who you don't even like. 254 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,240 Yes, it was definitely a shock. 255 00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:16,580 The man who couldn't wait to throw me out of his house. 256 00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:18,900 Now wants my help? 257 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:28,200 My dad was born in Hungary. 258 00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:31,960 And as Kitsy told us, he was a double agent for the CIA. 259 00:18:32,980 --> 00:18:37,040 He said that when the Nazis invaded Hungary, he was forced to join the 260 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,120 Luftwaffe and was trained as a pilot. 261 00:18:39,620 --> 00:18:44,760 He scored 13 kills before his plane was shot down, and he found himself in a 262 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:45,760 Russian prison camp. 263 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,220 Which I find plausible because he did have all the prison tattoos from the 264 00:18:49,220 --> 00:18:55,600 Gulag. Kids, what we had heard is that his wife or a group of people used a 265 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,020 and blew up the prison wall to get him out of prison. 266 00:18:59,590 --> 00:19:03,130 I mean, it was a great story to hear as a kid, but it also made you like, oh, my 267 00:19:03,130 --> 00:19:04,670 gosh, this guy's kind of spooky. 268 00:19:06,370 --> 00:19:10,750 So you hear your dad telling you these stories, you automatically believe it, 269 00:19:10,770 --> 00:19:13,070 but I couldn't tell you one way or another for sure. 270 00:19:14,130 --> 00:19:16,910 He managed to find his way to America with his wife, Elizabeth. 271 00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:20,950 And Clovis, California, became their home. 272 00:19:21,170 --> 00:19:24,050 They found jobs. They learned the language. They had two sons. 273 00:19:25,250 --> 00:19:27,890 Within a few years, Big John had his own landscaping business. 274 00:19:28,410 --> 00:19:32,710 I think by 1966, he was one of the biggest contractors in California. 275 00:19:33,030 --> 00:19:36,850 It was a multi -million dollar company then, in the 60s. And then they bought a 276 00:19:36,850 --> 00:19:37,850 restaurant. 277 00:19:38,490 --> 00:19:40,770 My parents were living the American dream. 278 00:19:41,490 --> 00:19:44,390 My mother was the bookkeeper, and he did the work. 279 00:19:45,690 --> 00:19:48,670 From the outside, they were a success story in Fresno. 280 00:19:49,370 --> 00:19:52,170 But nobody knew how bad it was for the kids, the boys. 281 00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:57,510 His problems, in my mind, started to... 282 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:03,400 manifest when we started having marital problems with my mom. He started 283 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,540 drinking and at some point we started gambling. 284 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,260 When Big John went to Harvey's, he was a very high roller. 285 00:20:23,620 --> 00:20:26,440 He was doing $10 ,000 a hand playing two hands. 286 00:20:26,810 --> 00:20:27,810 In blackjack. 287 00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:32,510 In rolling that kind of money, he attracted a lot of attention from casino 288 00:20:32,510 --> 00:20:33,510 management, from Harvey. 289 00:20:38,730 --> 00:20:40,890 He was really treated like royalty. 290 00:20:41,150 --> 00:20:44,410 I mean, to him, it was intoxicating. 291 00:20:45,370 --> 00:20:49,730 And he wound up just being there all the time. 292 00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:10,590 Big John became Harvey's friend as he spent into the millions inside Harvey's 293 00:21:10,590 --> 00:21:15,550 Casino. And he became addicted to his status as much as he was addicted to the 294 00:21:15,550 --> 00:21:18,470 gambling. And he just kept losing. 295 00:21:21,910 --> 00:21:25,490 He lost more than he won at the tables until he found himself deeply in debt. 296 00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:29,950 He lost his landscaping business and his restaurant due to his addiction at the 297 00:21:29,950 --> 00:21:30,950 blackjack table. 298 00:21:34,220 --> 00:21:37,900 He borrowed more and more money from Harvey in order to feed his addiction. 299 00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:44,040 It got to a point where he was losing and not paying the market. 300 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,760 And he was no longer welcome there. 301 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,240 His obsession had cost him almost everything he owned. 302 00:21:57,180 --> 00:22:03,680 He was so deranged that he actually thought The only way that he would lose 303 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,460 would be somebody had to cheat him. 304 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:12,340 So he was going to build that bomb and get the $3 million that he felt was 305 00:22:12,340 --> 00:22:13,340 stolen from him. 306 00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:33,010 We're headed to my childhood home. 307 00:22:35,010 --> 00:22:38,590 Where the infamous bomb was constructed. 308 00:22:39,970 --> 00:22:42,590 I haven't even seen pictures of it, so I have no idea what it looks like. 309 00:22:43,150 --> 00:22:45,650 I mean, you didn't help build the bomb, right? Or did you? 310 00:22:46,610 --> 00:22:47,609 No, I didn't. 311 00:22:47,610 --> 00:22:48,930 I wouldn't know what to build. 312 00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:53,010 But the day it came to fill it full of dynamite, we helped him do that. 313 00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:57,770 You know, Jim's lived here for his whole life. 314 00:22:58,250 --> 00:23:02,890 and he's never taken the kids by. Maybe they've done a drive -by, but they don't 315 00:23:02,890 --> 00:23:08,570 know a lot about the story because it just takes them back to places that are 316 00:23:08,570 --> 00:23:09,570 uncomfortable for him. 317 00:23:09,870 --> 00:23:15,610 Going over the past with my kids, they have no idea. We never talked about it, 318 00:23:15,650 --> 00:23:16,650 ever. 319 00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:22,070 But my youngest daughter, Hope, is the one who's most curious about it. 320 00:23:24,530 --> 00:23:26,850 So I'm trying to... 321 00:23:27,290 --> 00:23:30,250 to open up more, to have her wind up different than me. 322 00:23:37,810 --> 00:23:40,670 Well, I used to live here. Years ago, I grew up here. 323 00:23:41,370 --> 00:23:42,830 You are a virgin. 324 00:23:43,090 --> 00:23:44,630 Yes. No shit. 325 00:23:46,190 --> 00:23:50,870 Is there any chance that we can come in and look around? 326 00:23:51,810 --> 00:23:53,810 My husband's got all kinds of stuff in there. 327 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,040 Yeah, there you go. 328 00:24:04,340 --> 00:24:05,340 Wow. 329 00:24:07,860 --> 00:24:09,280 That car is so cool. 330 00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:19,860 I remember when he built this shop. 331 00:24:20,220 --> 00:24:22,720 He built the poles and welded them all together. 332 00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:25,480 This was all self -taught. 333 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,980 This is where he... 334 00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:33,670 He built a bomb. 335 00:24:34,290 --> 00:24:35,450 In here. In here. 336 00:24:38,030 --> 00:24:44,030 In that era and time, obedience to your parents was a lot different than 337 00:24:44,030 --> 00:24:46,430 what it is now. 338 00:24:47,490 --> 00:24:50,790 I mean, if you talk back, you got beat. 339 00:24:51,030 --> 00:24:54,790 So it's like, it's just a different world now. 340 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,560 I don't want to sound like this is something that I was enthusiastic about 341 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:11,420 wanted to do. It was something that we were trained to say yes, so we said yes. 342 00:25:14,340 --> 00:25:20,340 And so it just started evolving from that point forward, mainly with trying 343 00:25:20,340 --> 00:25:21,420 procure the dynamite. 344 00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:25,840 And it's not easy to find 1 ,000 pounds of dynamite. 345 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,000 In the High Sierra, a new season begins. 346 00:25:31,530 --> 00:25:35,670 and construction continues on a massive undertaking, the Helms Pump Storage 347 00:25:35,670 --> 00:25:36,670 Project. 348 00:25:38,210 --> 00:25:42,390 At that time, Granite Construction Company was in the beginning stages of 349 00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:44,450 constructing the Helms hydroelectric plant. 350 00:25:49,930 --> 00:25:54,910 Tony, who was a friend that stopped by to visit Jim, had just started working 351 00:25:54,910 --> 00:25:59,990 Granite Construction, and in the conversation, Tony had unknowingly 352 00:26:00,270 --> 00:26:03,870 Big John, all the information he needed to know about the existence and the 353 00:26:03,870 --> 00:26:04,870 location of the dynamite. 354 00:26:05,410 --> 00:26:09,890 And that next day, my brother came over, and Big John described the plan he 355 00:26:09,890 --> 00:26:10,890 concocted. 356 00:26:12,290 --> 00:26:16,630 I couldn't help thinking how nice Big John could be when he wanted something. 357 00:26:17,490 --> 00:26:21,270 It was one or two in the morning, late night. 358 00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:25,230 We drove my brother's van up there. 359 00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:29,110 There was a little bit of activity a few hundred yards away. 360 00:26:29,740 --> 00:26:33,420 The job site was working 24 hours, so we waited until it calmed down a little 361 00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:34,420 bit. 362 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,560 My dad had decided that he's going to use this backpack torch. 363 00:26:41,020 --> 00:26:44,860 I thought it was kind of risky, being you're torching a lock off a dynamite 364 00:26:44,860 --> 00:26:51,740 locker, but... Got in the locker and proceeded 365 00:26:51,740 --> 00:26:54,440 to empty the contents of the locker into the van. 366 00:26:56,020 --> 00:26:58,960 I was in such fear, thinking at any moment... 367 00:26:59,290 --> 00:27:00,290 It's going to blow up. 368 00:27:01,510 --> 00:27:04,890 So it was just terrifying the whole time. 369 00:27:10,570 --> 00:27:13,550 The Fresno Bee ran an article telling of the dynamite theft. 370 00:27:14,290 --> 00:27:18,370 I went, oh my gosh, they did it. They did it. 371 00:27:18,730 --> 00:27:21,530 I remember saying that to myself, they did it. I didn't tell anybody. 372 00:27:24,610 --> 00:27:27,110 Big John took about four months. 373 00:27:27,530 --> 00:27:29,170 to fabricate and complete the bomb. 374 00:27:29,790 --> 00:27:33,910 I heard from Big John again. He said, ready for your help, can you come to the 375 00:27:33,910 --> 00:27:34,910 house tomorrow? 376 00:27:35,410 --> 00:27:36,850 Showed me some drawings he had made. 377 00:27:38,090 --> 00:27:39,390 The whole idea was incredible. 378 00:27:40,610 --> 00:27:44,950 A very unique aspect of this device, that someone is cogitating and saying, 379 00:27:44,950 --> 00:27:48,290 right, what can the police do to try to take this thing out? 380 00:27:49,450 --> 00:27:53,070 Big John said, what could we use to prevent it from being flooded or foamed 381 00:27:53,070 --> 00:27:54,070 short out the wiring? 382 00:27:54,170 --> 00:27:56,950 We stood there, silently concentrating on the problem. 383 00:27:57,540 --> 00:27:59,060 Suddenly my dad's eyes widened. 384 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:03,420 So what we have here is our reproduction of wheel bomb. 385 00:28:03,820 --> 00:28:08,820 And in the FBI, we have a unit that does nothing but create courtroom exhibits. 386 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,260 In case you were thinking of flooding this, you know, this toilet float. 387 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,440 And you can see in the very center, there's a piece of plastic, white 388 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,560 As it rises, it comes up into this tube. 389 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:25,040 And when those two screws make contact, you complete a switch, and the bomb goes 390 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,040 off. 391 00:28:26,509 --> 00:28:28,430 The motion detector was my idea. 392 00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:33,510 Back in the 1980s, automotive alarms were really simple. If you shook the 393 00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:38,030 it would go off. And so we kind of made a homemade version of that. 394 00:28:38,590 --> 00:28:42,510 At the very center of this device, you can see what we call a trembler. You can 395 00:28:42,510 --> 00:28:47,770 see this ball -bearing move in there, and when it makes contact, it could set 396 00:28:47,770 --> 00:28:48,569 off the bomb. 397 00:28:48,570 --> 00:28:52,230 I bet John's eyes lit up. I could see that he was noticeably impressed. 398 00:28:54,190 --> 00:28:57,430 As this went along, I mean, I thought exactly I was doing it. 399 00:28:57,650 --> 00:29:00,170 It had a seven -day irrigation timer. 400 00:29:00,550 --> 00:29:06,370 Pressure switches on the top lid, and the bomb was double -walled, so if you 401 00:29:06,370 --> 00:29:10,290 attempted to drill through it, it would complete the circuit and detonate. 402 00:29:11,370 --> 00:29:16,390 At that moment, I felt a connection with my father that, until this night, had 403 00:29:16,390 --> 00:29:17,390 never existed. 404 00:29:18,290 --> 00:29:22,070 And I found myself unexpectedly caught up in the thrill of the adventure. 405 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,000 I mean, it was all very simple, but that was the genius of it. 406 00:29:41,020 --> 00:29:46,240 As the bomb got closer to completion, he got his girlfriend Joan, a parole 407 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,160 officer, to make a gray cover for this thing. 408 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,920 homemade cut -out letters that said IBM on it. 409 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,280 And she helped him write the letters because his broken English could give 410 00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:59,280 that he was a foreigner. 411 00:29:59,620 --> 00:30:04,740 I'm sure she knew things about the law or things of police procedure or 412 00:30:04,740 --> 00:30:05,740 investigative procedures. 413 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,480 I couldn't understand how a Fresno County probation officer could 414 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:11,480 an extortion attempt. 415 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,140 She must have been under the same spell as Jim and me. 416 00:30:16,220 --> 00:30:20,200 So the farther along it went, we still just kept on... 417 00:30:21,719 --> 00:30:24,180 rationalizing it that this isn't going to happen, this is going to happen. 418 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,880 The thoughts whirled through my head. What the hell am I doing? 419 00:30:29,580 --> 00:30:31,860 I'm helping a man who is definitely insane. 420 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,120 It's like a whirlpool. You get stuck in and you can't get out. 421 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,900 My dad's idea of discipline was just physical abuse. 422 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,860 You know, physically beating you. 423 00:31:00,820 --> 00:31:04,140 And it was just a common occurrence. 424 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,000 I lost teeth when he punched me in the mouth for having my elbow on the table. 425 00:31:11,940 --> 00:31:14,500 Beat with a belt, beat with a stick, beat with a shovel. 426 00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:20,460 And his idea, it made you tough. You know, tough for the world. 427 00:31:32,140 --> 00:31:33,140 Yeah, John Jr. 428 00:31:33,180 --> 00:31:36,980 and Jim, they do the motocross racing together, but other than that, they 429 00:31:36,980 --> 00:31:39,240 hang out with one another or anything like that. 430 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,980 My brother and me didn't have a close relationship ever, and that was by 431 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,060 For my father, it was like raising two pit bulls. 432 00:31:51,180 --> 00:31:55,820 You know, they might have been from the same litter, but they're trained to 433 00:31:55,820 --> 00:31:56,820 fight each other. 434 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,760 But I think the bomb. 435 00:32:00,190 --> 00:32:04,690 in a weird way, brought them together because they knew what they were doing 436 00:32:04,690 --> 00:32:05,770 absolutely wrong. 437 00:32:09,490 --> 00:32:14,610 The more your reality is becoming, me and my brother were trying to figure out 438 00:32:14,610 --> 00:32:15,830 an exit strategy on this. 439 00:32:16,550 --> 00:32:23,110 This bomb is going to either kill me, kill everybody, kill somebody, or I'm 440 00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:25,170 going to get caught rolling the thing in the front door. 441 00:32:33,450 --> 00:32:38,350 We ended up going through a trial loading of the bomb into the van. 442 00:32:40,890 --> 00:32:45,710 The steel was quarter -inch plate, probably weighed, you know, 1 ,200, 1 443 00:32:45,710 --> 00:32:46,890 pounds at least. 444 00:32:49,130 --> 00:32:51,890 Jim held one wheel while I held the other, making sure they stayed in place. 445 00:32:54,850 --> 00:32:58,670 Before I knew what was happening, my fingers were under the wheel of the 446 00:33:01,010 --> 00:33:02,250 Big John said nothing. 447 00:33:02,780 --> 00:33:05,380 He was too busy calculating what had gone wrong. 448 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:06,960 It hit me. 449 00:33:07,020 --> 00:33:09,440 I had found a legitimate exit out of this debacle. 450 00:33:09,820 --> 00:33:12,740 And at that point, my brother, he says, F this? 451 00:33:13,260 --> 00:33:16,480 Jim finally spoke up. I won't do it if John won't. 452 00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:23,660 He says, if I can get somebody else to push it in, will you pick up the money? 453 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,980 Will you commit to doing the ransom? 454 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,080 Sure, I'll pick up the money with you. 455 00:33:28,660 --> 00:33:29,820 My brother goes, sure. 456 00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:31,860 It's never going to happen anyway. 457 00:33:32,670 --> 00:33:33,670 We're in the clear. 458 00:33:38,130 --> 00:33:42,310 Well, we found out later that after we backed out, Big John hired two guys who 459 00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:43,730 used to work at his landscape business. 460 00:33:44,150 --> 00:33:47,510 And he promised them 100 grand apiece to roll this thing in the front. 461 00:33:48,610 --> 00:33:52,790 Whether he told them that was a bomb or not, I got no clue. 462 00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:56,250 I mean, they went along with it, no problem. 463 00:33:57,710 --> 00:34:02,190 They were dressed up in all the one suits with the zip -up, and they had 464 00:34:02,190 --> 00:34:04,070 little names on them just like they would be. 465 00:34:04,990 --> 00:34:06,830 I guess they just looked the part. 466 00:34:12,010 --> 00:34:15,690 This thing was so heavy, the carpet there was making it very difficult to 467 00:34:15,690 --> 00:34:19,949 it. They called security to help them physically push this thing into the 468 00:34:19,949 --> 00:34:24,610 elevator. Wait, security helped push it? Yeah, they had to call security to help 469 00:34:24,610 --> 00:34:25,259 them push it. 470 00:34:25,260 --> 00:34:26,840 I mean, it's the heave -ho thing, you know. 471 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,560 Then they took it up to the second floor where all the offices were. 472 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,440 Big John began to feel the exhilaration of what would be one of the most 473 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:41,760 impressive hands ever dealt him. 474 00:34:47,179 --> 00:34:48,179 This was his moment. 475 00:34:52,730 --> 00:34:57,350 The loss of his businesses, all the money being gone, was for a moment 476 00:34:57,350 --> 00:34:58,350 completely forgotten. 477 00:35:01,770 --> 00:35:04,070 He knew there would be panic and mass evacuations. 478 00:35:06,130 --> 00:35:08,370 Harvey would have no choice but to pay the $3 million. 479 00:35:10,810 --> 00:35:13,110 He felt alive again, his pride reborn. 480 00:35:16,550 --> 00:35:20,070 At that time there were three news channels, and it was on all of them. 481 00:35:20,070 --> 00:35:21,390 a report from Tom Schell. 482 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,620 not just national news, but worldwide as well. 483 00:35:25,460 --> 00:35:28,820 As the evacuation progressed, authorities said they had not heard from 484 00:35:28,820 --> 00:35:32,320 extortionists since they found a three -page note that demands a $3 million 485 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,480 payment in exchange for instructions on how to disarm the bomb. 486 00:35:35,780 --> 00:35:39,620 The authorities have appealed to the extortionists to make contact 487 00:35:39,620 --> 00:35:42,800 so they can avoid a potentially disastrous explosion. 488 00:35:43,460 --> 00:35:45,440 I was in shock. 489 00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:49,740 Never at any time did I think my father could pull this off. 490 00:35:51,690 --> 00:35:53,030 He had actually made it happen. 491 00:35:58,170 --> 00:36:02,110 At that point, you know, we still didn't have enough information on what was 492 00:36:02,110 --> 00:36:03,330 going on inside that device. 493 00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:09,310 And he has alluded to a time frame. You know, if I don't receive my money in 24 494 00:36:09,310 --> 00:36:13,710 hours, then, you know, don't contact me. We won't contact you. It's going to, 495 00:36:13,710 --> 00:36:14,750 you know, blow up. 496 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,940 That's our time limit. It's 24 hours. Because he's not going to blow it up 497 00:36:19,940 --> 00:36:21,240 before he gets his money. 498 00:36:21,660 --> 00:36:26,680 So he has to give us 24 hours. But after that, it's anybody's guess. 499 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,620 We knew that he wanted $3 million and a helicopter. 500 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:38,620 And our best shot was to catch these people at the time they picked up the 501 00:36:38,620 --> 00:36:42,960 money. That was the weak part. They had to appear or send somebody. 502 00:36:43,500 --> 00:36:46,380 We had done this over the years many times. 503 00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:51,840 Never once did the criminal get the money and get away with it. 504 00:36:57,260 --> 00:37:02,140 On hindsight, in looking at this, I probably should have put the bomb in 505 00:37:02,140 --> 00:37:08,380 the plan to get the money was such a harebrained scheme that you're more 506 00:37:08,380 --> 00:37:09,760 to get caught there or die. 507 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,520 A time of tension and danger is moving toward a conclusion. 508 00:37:13,820 --> 00:37:16,200 Has there been any communication between yourself and the person who said that? 509 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:16,899 No, there hasn't. 510 00:37:16,900 --> 00:37:18,580 It was time for me to keep my word. 511 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,460 There is a possibility of an explosion in the state line area. 512 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:28,580 Detonating that thing is the absolute last choice. 513 00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:35,440 The nightmare was just beginning, and there was no way out. 44376

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