All language subtitles for The.Yogurt.Shop.Murders.S01E04.In.Your.Own.Time.WEB-DL.HMAX.en-US[sdh]

CLAIRE HUIE: Rob and I
wrote letters back and forth

while he was
in Travis County Jail,

and, uh, he had a lot of time
on his hands

so he would write us
long letters,

and this is the first one
that he wrote to us.

"Dear Claire..."

♪ (GENTLE PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

"...when you're in jail,
time is weird.

Some days
a second takes all day,

and others a day takes seconds.

When you're in a cell,
23 hours a day,

time stretches to infinity.

I read a lot.

I read the whole Dune series.

That's probably
one of the greatest

sci-fi fantasy series around,
and I consider it a classic.

I'm not much into puzzles."

I think I sent him
some puzzle books or something.

"But I do listen to NPR,
although I prefer the BBC News.

I've used this situation to grow
into a better person

in the last nine
and a half years.

You can't see it

since you've only known me
for about a week,

but ask my mother
or even my father.

You may even have them on film
talking about this already.

I have no clue
what you've gotten so far.

I've grown in so many ways
it's impossible to explain.

Please write back soon.
Sincere best wishes, Rob."

That was his first letter,

um, and we wrote back and forth
a few times

before he got released on bond.
Yeah.

♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

♪ ("YOGURT SHOP MURDERS"
THEME MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

♪ I was living in a devil town ♪

♪ Didn't know
it was a devil town ♪

♪ Oh, Lord,
it really brings me down ♪

♪ About the devil town ♪

♪ I was living in a devil town ♪

♪ Didn't know
it was a devil town ♪

♪ Oh, Lord,
it really brings me down ♪

♪ About the devil town ♪

♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

MICHAEL SCOTT:
To hear that my sentencing

had been overturned was huge.

Oh, man, it was...

I was-- I was standing
at my cell door when--

(STUTTERS)
'cause the officer comes to you,

'cause it doesn't come
at the normal time of mail.

Legal mail is different.

They bring it to you,
and I'm like, "Hey, what's this?

It's from
the Court of Criminal Appeals."

And I opened it up
and went, "Oh, wow!"

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

MICHAEL: What they overturned
our convictions on

was a Sixth Amendment violation

of a right
to confrontation, specifically.

In Springsteen's trial,

they took my written statement
and they had

an officer read parts
of it into the record.

In my trial, they took excerpts
out of his video interrogation.

The Constitution says,
"You have an absolute right

to confront your accuser."

I refused to get
on the stand at his trial.

He refused to get
on the stand at my trial.

So, where in there
were we allowed

to confront our "accusers"?

This was sort of
a gray area of the law.

And while this case
was on appeal,

the Supreme Court
of the United States

came down with a decision

that really totally
changed the law

and made it
much more black and white,

which got this case reversed.

REPORTER 1:
New developments today

in one of Austin's
most notorious crimes.

REPORTER 2: The Texas Court
of Criminal Appeals ruled

that Michael Scott got
an unfair capital murder trial

in Travis County.

REPORTER 3:
They say his confession

was improperly introduced
to jurors

and he didn't get
to face Robert Springsteen,

one of his accusers.

REPORTER 4:
Scott's and Springsteen's
convictions were overturned.

REPORTER 5:
The appellate court ruled that

the men's constitutional right
was violated.

Every time I hear those words

that their rights
were violated, I don't...

Our girls were murdered.

PAUL JOHNSON:
The highest court in Texas

decided on a vote
of five to four.

So, four of the justices said,

"Nope, it didn't make
any difference,"

but it just takes a majority.

Five of them said it did,

so they're going back
for a new trial.

CLAIRE:

Six and a half, seven years.

That's a--
That's a rough guess...

on-- on that one.

CARLOS GARCIA: One of the things
that people don't get

is the sequence of events.

The crime happened in '91.

All right. In '99,

Michael Scott confesses,
Springsteen confesses.

Springsteen loses his case,
Scott loses his case.

One gets death, one gets life.

Seven years later, their--
both cases are reversed

and they come back
for new trials.

♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

PAUL: So the district attorney
decided

that since the confessions
indicate that the girls,

or at least one of the girls,
was raped,

they might find DNA evidence
to use for a new trial.

INVESTIGATOR:

ROB:

PAUL: At the first trial,
they had already done profiling,

and there was no foreign DNA
on those swabs.

That's because at the time
they needed globs of liquids.

But now, they tested it
by kind of a new technology

called Y-STR,

which can find much
smaller amounts of DNA.

The state had gotten knowledge
of this new Y-STR testing

and thought, "This could be it,
'cause now we're not allowed

to use these confessions
against each other.

We're going to prove
with science that he did it."

There's an X chromosome,
and there's a Y chromosome.

If you're XX, you're a female.
If you're XY, you're a male.

Y-STR, what it does
is it ignores the female DNA.

We get a call
from the judge's office saying,

"Hey, can you come
and meet right now?"

When we got there,

prosecutors said, "We have found

a full Y-STR profile
in Amy Ayers."

"And it doesn't match
any of your...

of your defendants.

Your two
or the other two, either."

♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

The most important thing
DNA stands for

is it's someone else.

It is not any one
of these four boys.

And so I suppose the state
of Texas now is going to say

that there were really five boys
there instead of four.

Never mind that is inconsistent
with the theories

they used to try them
the first time.

They thought they were going
to get a Y-STR result

and hammer the point home.

Instead, they got the truth
and they can't deal with it.

AMBER FARRELLY:
The theory comes up

by the state of Texas,
"Well, it must be contamination.

Something had to happen
to this sample."

It could be contamination

or it could be
another, uh, person involved.

♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

PAUL: So the crime scene
collection procedures

in 1991,

with the lab processing
procedures

and handling procedures.

Y-STR can pick up
cast-off skin cells.

So, anybody that had contact,
was even close to these swabs,

could have contaminated
the evidence.

ANGIE AYERS: You've got to think
of the crime scene.

And you've got, I don't know,

four inches of water
that has flooded.

You've got naked girls
on the floor with water.

It could be anything.
It could be...

I mean, it's a restaurant.

People are in there
all the time.

AMBER: So they began testing
every firefighter

that was there on the scene,
over 50 of them.

Any of the officers
that were there,

any other
law enforcement personnel,

the medical examiner.
They test Amy's father...

her brother...

anybody who else
that they think it could be.

After testing more than 200 men

who just even looked
at this body,

were anywhere near this body,

there's nobody else,

except for maybe somebody
that's not in this pile,

i.e., the real killer.

The idea that it could
be contamination, yes.

It's a possibility.
Is it probable? No.

A full profile inside
a vaginal swab of...

of the youngest victim?

No. That's not contamination.
That's your killer.

(ROADWAY NOISE)

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

Since the original trial
of this case,

new developments
in DNA technology

have become available.

Currently, it is clear to me

that our evidence in the death

of these four young women
includes DNA from one male

whose identity
is not yet known to us.

Given that,
I could not in good conscience

allow this case to go to trial

before the identity
of this male donor

is determined
and the full truth is known.

♪ (RISING TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

(CROWD CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

JOE SAWYER: For the first time
in the history

of criminal justice
in the state of Texas,

two young men were released
on personal bond

on four counts
of capital murder.

I determined I couldn't keep

those defendants
in jail any longer,

so I let them out
on personal bond

and gave the state a deadline
to be ready to go to trial.

ROSEMARY: I remain confident
that Robert Springsteen

and Michael Scott
are both responsible

for the deaths
at the yogurt shop.

I can assure this community

that we're going to continue
to work on this case

until we take it to trial again.

First thing I told Robert

was that I was sorry
it took so damn long

for this day to come.

He hasn't been free
for over ten years.

The promise I made him
is that he's never going back.

We're going to win this case,

and I don't care
how that's done.

Trial, dismissal, whatever.

REPORTER 6: What does
it feel like to be out?

It's wonderful,
and I'd like to thank God

and my families and my attorney
for this opportunity. Thank you.

(CROWD CHEERS AND APPLAUDS)

REPORTER 7:
Knowing that it is a possibility

a match may never be found
doesn't bother this mom.

The case is still a good case.

We didn't need the DNA
in the first place.

They are going to pay every day
of their life.

(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)

And I would be, if I were them,

I would probably
just stay in the jail

where it's safer for them
because there's a lot of people

who are upset over this.

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

CARLOS:
This case is very simple.

It's about a bad interrogation

in which interrogators
crossed the line

into using the kind of tactics
we know cause false confessions.

They suffer from something
called confirmation bias,

which means that they're looking
for any... evidence of guilt

because that's what
they already think.

CLAIRE:
So, this is Carlos Garcia,

and I think what he's doing here

is practicing
his opening statement

um, for the retrial,
uh, that would have come up in,

I think it was 2008, 2009
he was doing this.

CARLOS: Trying to get, um,
Michael to remember details.

And Michael gets scared,
and he can't remember.

Well, he's going
to start telling,

"That's the gun, ain't it?
Come on, tell me."

Michael will say,
"Yeah, that's the gun.

The gun he shot the girls with."

Paul Johnson knew,

as he's watching
on that videotape...

He's sitting
in some other room close by,

watching this stuff go down.

And Paul Johnson knows
at that moment

that that's not the gun.

Because Paul Johnson
had it tested.

And the Austin Police Department
ballistics person says,

"It's very unlikely
that this gun that you have,

Paul Johnson, is the gun
that killed those girls."

CLAIRE: I don't think
quite enough emphasis

had been put
in the first trial on...

the fact that the gun
did not match,

that there was really
no physical evidence

linking these boys to the crime.

APD knew that the gun
did not match,

even though they're indicating
in Michael Scott's interrogation

that they had the matching gun.

In 17 years,
since this crime was committed,

not one single atom
of physical evidence

connecting these boys
to that crime scene

has ever been found. Not one.

(SIGHS) How long was that?

-CLAIRE: Uh, 48 minutes.
-Okay.

Yeah, that needs to be cut down
by 20 minutes.

Man.

CARLOS: In my own opinion,
Johnson screwed it up.

Not only did he screw it up,
he hid things that did not fit.

PAUL:
So every test from the lead,

from the bullets
that were in the girls,

they can't say
it really did come

from Maurice's gun
or for sure that it didn't.

♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

What Maurice had said was,

"This gun
that I was arrested with

is the gun that Forrest took
to kill the girls."

PAUL: But we have always known

that Maurice had access
to other guns.

So, even though we couldn't
get a positive identification,

it still wouldn't have
cleared Maurice

because we knew
he had other guns.

This gun
that he was arrested with,

it would only be a match
if you believe Maurice.

I think I'm an honest person.

I tell the truth.

I think I'm honest
in everything I do,

and I think my investigation
was done in an honest way.

And to me,
the convictions confirmed

what I had always thought,

that not only had they done it,
but that we proved

beyond a reasonable doubt
that they had done it.

♪ (INTENSE MUSIC BUILDUP) ♪

REPORTER 8: Michael Scott
and Robert Springsteen

have walked into court dozens
of times before,

but this was the first time
they walked in as free men.

Both men have been
out of jail since June,

when State District Judge
Mike Lynch

released them on bond,

and said prosecutors
had to put up

or shut up by today.

BAILIFF: Courtroom,
come to order, please.
Everyone rise.

167th judicial district court
of Travis County

is now in session.

The honorable
Mike Lynch presiding.

You may be seated.

(CLEARS THROAT)

MIKE LYNCH: Good afternoon.
Uh, we're on the record.

In August,
the court issued an order

due to the unique nature
and circumstances of this case

that set today as a date

for the parties
to announce to the court

whether or not they'd be ready
to begin a jury trial.

Um, as the court is well aware,
the state is conducting testing

to, uh, identify
the male donor

that, uh, we, uh, uncovered
through some Y-STR testing

from one of the vaginal swabs

of one of the victims
in our case.

So because of that, Your Honor,
given the fact

that we have not yet
identified the male donor,

the state sees
no other viable option

at this point, Your Honor,

but to, uh, file a motion
with the court for a dismissal

pending further investigation
of this matter

into the identity
of this male donor.

MIKE:
Anything else you want to say?

EFRAIN DE LA FUENTE: No, sir.

Apparently having no objections,
the court will grant the motions

and as to each indictment,

as to each
of the two defendants.

When the state
wasn't ready by that date

because of
these evidentiary issues,

I pretty much forced them

to dismiss the case
without prejudice.

I think we were
just enforcing the law

and doing what was fair.

I can see how most everybody
is unsatisfied...

Excuse me.

...with there being
no final determination.

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

But, I mean,
I'm assuming the defendants

are very happy to be out of jail
and not under charge anymore.

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

REPORTER 9: Mr. Springsteen,
can we talk to you?

No comment right now, please.
(CLEARS THROAT)

JOE: There is no victory here.

The primary question
in this case

has still not been answered.

Who committed these crimes?

Where are those people?
And we need to find them.

Uh, but most of all,
I think we should

reserve our sympathy
and our concern

for the families of those girls.

BOB AYERS: You can go to court,
but you can't get justice.

All you get is the law.

Justice to you may be different
than justice to me

or anybody else
down the street.

-Yeah.
-Justice may be revenge.

♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

Make no mistake... Uh...

this was a difficult decision

and one I'd rather not have
to make.

But I believe it is
the best legal

and strategic course to take...

to ultimately retry
both Springsteen and Scott.

REPORTER 10:

There is no database for
this particular type of profile.

This is a Y-only profile,

and there's no database
for that.

REPORTER 11: Can you talk about

what this means
for the justice system?

Because either you've let
two murderers
walk out of court today,

or the-- or the wrong guys
have been locked up.

How should people have faith
in the justice system

when neither one of those seems
to be a good outcome, is it?

Twenty-four citizens
of Travis County

have heard this case,
uh, and have convicted

both of these men before.

Uh, this is just
a new turn of events.

Um, we need to keep searching
for the donor of this DNA.

I don't, as I said,
believe it would be fair

to give it to a jury now.

Just ask them
to guess or surmise. Uh...

And so we'll wait.

♪ (PENSIVE PIANO MUSIC
PLAYING) ♪

GUEST 1: How are you?

(GUESTS CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

-Congratulations.
-Thank you.

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

FRIEND 1: And, uh, but just now
you looked, uh, confident today.

You looked like...
You looked confident.

CLAIRE: So this is his first day
as a free man.

Mostly free,
out of prison anyway.

FRIEND 1: And you look great.
I mean, I think you look good.

I think you look, uh, healthy
and you look...

CLAIRE: Even though the charges

have been dropped
against you now,

you're very close to
having been exonerated

in the public view.

I've not been exonerated.

My charges
have only been dismissed.

So, I went...

kind of from one... jail
to another.

Shit.

Fucking 100-dollar pair of pants

and the damn belt
won't even fit in the loops.

It wasn't the exciting thing
that I guess a lot of people

would think that it would be

because you can't
not think about it.

There's always that question,
"Will I ever be exonerated?"

-Hi! It's nice to meet you.
-SPEAKER 1: Producer with us.

Make yourselves at home, um...

I can start
another pot of coffee.

We got Gatorade
and Diet Dr. Pepper

-and, of course, water. So...
-SPEAKER 1: Very sweet.
We're good.

I think we just want to get
a little bit of B-roll,

just, like, sort of
what are you doing

on a daily basis now?

ROBERT SPRINGSTEEN:
This here is my kitchen,

so to speak. Um, I've got
a little toaster oven.

I've got a microwave.

I've got a skillet.

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

ERIN MORIARTY:
Robert Springsteen,

now 35 years old,

he never expected to spend
the past ten years in prison.

There's been
a lot of hoopla and madness

going on here
the last several years

and I would like to get some of
the records set straight on this

and have the people know
the truth.

Were your fingerprints
ever found anywhere

-at the yogurt shop?
-No.

-Your blood?
-No.

-Your DNA?
-No.

-Any hair?
-No.

ERIN: But he does have trouble
explaining why,

after denying for hours
he was involved,

that he finally confessed
to the police.

-How does that happen?
-I don't-- I don't know.

There's-- There's psychological
aspects to it

that I don't understand.

CLAIRE:

In a way, yes, and in a way, no.

I've talked to several attorneys
and several experts,

and they've all said,

"You know, it--
It can happen to anybody."

And people
are just now really starting

to find out the truth
about false confessions

and coerced confessions.

(BELLE BARKS)

-Good? Yeah. Kill him, Belle.
-(BELLE BARKS)

Hello, Miss Belle.

JOE: I've told you
all the line, right?

That John Wisser asked me
what line of poetry

I would use to characterize
the end of my case.

And I told him
it was T.S. Eliot, you know?

This is the way
the world will end

This is the way
the world will end

Not with a bang, but a whimper

I mean, it's dissatisfying.

It's simply over

because science
doesn't have an opinion.

And here we sit.

And there you go, by God.

You want a cigar?

-No, I'm good, thanks.
-JOE: Okay.

I was just talking
to Judge Lynch this morning.

I mean, this case is over,
but it's never gonna be over.

And, I mean,

that was one of the things
we talked about.

He asked about you
and I told him.

He thinks you're gone.

(BELLE SNARLS)

You know, I just said,
"You're in West Virginia

and I told you

that you're never coming back
to Texas."

The DA's office
believes you're guilty.

The cops, I mean,
are almost rabid about it.

(BELLE SNARLS)

If they could catch you
behind the wheel,

you would not make it
out of Austin.

They would find a reason
to put you in jail.

That's what I'm saying.

Even if the charges
were dropped,

it would be
a sensational news story.

You know,
"Yogurt shop defendant--"

-(BELLE SNARLS)
-Belle, honest to God.

Belle, I am going
to stick you...

(BELLE GROWLS)

No! No, I don't care
what you think.

(BELLE GROWLS)

♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

ROBERT: I really like Texas.
I hate to leave,

but it's the best thing
to do right now, so...

CLAIRE:

Well, we don't know for sure
that it is,

but it gives the appearance
of being pretty bad,

and we just don't want there
to be any issues, you know?

So...

it's better to be safe
than sorry.

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

OFFICER 1: (OVER RADIO)
Eastbound N2.

There's a parking lot here.

(POLICE SIRENS BLARING)

(POLICE CHATTER OVER RADIO)

EMS 10-18,
I've got an officer down.

REPORTER 12: What started
as a routine traffic stop

ended with the shooting death
of a man

that had a history
with Austin police.

The officer managed
to fire a single round

that did strike the suspect.

REPORTER 13: We are discovering
the man killed

was Maurice Pierce.

Police say Pierce ran
through a stop sign

and started jumping
over fences to get away

through this neighborhood.

When Wilson
finally caught up with him...

The officer was attempting
to control him

and get him in custody.
He said he felt something wet.

He realized that Maurice
had gotten the--

The knife off of his belt
and had cut his throat.

REPORTER 13: Officer Wilson
is in stable condition.

REPORTER 14: Minutes later,
neighbors called police

saying the attacker was dead
in a yard down the street.

REPORTER 15:
Maurice Pierce is a name

many Austinites know well,

connected to that infamous
yogurt shop murders.

REPORTER 16:
Members of Pierce's family say

that past followed him,
saying he didn't trust police.

♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

Senior Sergeant
of the homicide detective,

the next morning, he called me
and I chewed his butt out.

I said, you should have come
and got me that night.

I don't want to hear
Maurice Pierce dead.

I want to see
Maurice Pierce dead.

What I had always hoped
was going to happen,

that we would get evidence

to get him to trial,
and it'd be for capital murder,

and he would get
a life sentence.

So when...

I found out
that he had been killed,

it really didn't bother me,

which may sound harsh,
but it's true.

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

CARLOS: Over the years,

Maurice Pierce
kept talking to the cops,

like, they'd interview him,

and he would always talk
to them.

Pierce was always afraid
of the cops.

They kept bothering him,

'cause he was always
that prime suspect.

Johnson would go up
and bother him and talk to him,

and he would always talk.

PAUL:

PAUL:

MAURICE:

MAURICE:

MAURICE:

PAUL:

MAURICE:

PAUL:

MAURICE:

PAUL:

MAURICE:

PAUL:

MAURICE:

MAURICE:

MAURICE:

PAUL:

MAURICE:

PAUL:

MAURICE:

PAUL:

MAURICE:

PAUL:

MAURICE:

PAUL:

PAUL:

MAURICE:

PAUL:

MAURICE:

CARLOS:
Pierce died because of his PTSD.

I have no doubt.

If Maurice Pierce doesn't decide
to take a gun to the mall

on December 15th 1991,
he'd still be alive

and none of us would be here
right now talking about this.

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

DAN JACKSON:
I try not to keep,

like, a lot of cop stuff
in my house.

I take my shoes off
at the front door,

just try to leave it
as much as possible.

But then I come home
and work from home

for a couple hours every day.

(CHUCKLES) So I guess it's...
kind of moot in some sense.

When I was
in the homicide division,

I solved a hundred percent
of my cases.

I left there
with no open casework.

Maybe I jinxed myself,
came over here and like,

"Oh, you think you're good?
Well, here's yogurt shop."

(CHUCKLES)

O.J. Simpson, you needed,

like, a ton of blood, right,
for DNA back then.

That's when DNA became kind of
a household thing,

was the Simpson trial.

And now we're talking picograms,

which is, like, a thousandth
of a nanogram (STUTTERS)

that you can't even see
with the naked eye.

And it seems like

each time you talk
to these labs,

they're able to do more
with less.

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

(CAR KEYS JANGLING)

♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

Be real careful.

There you go.

MARGARET:

DAN: So this is reconstructed

from the crime scene photos
and video.

And, of course,

this is the front where
all the customers would sit

and then the back
where the fire started

and the girls were.

That is the first thing we see

'cause we have
all the girls up here

with a biography about each one.
Um...

And this is...

Yeah, it's the first thing
you see every morning.

So, it's a reminder
that these girls have histories,

have families, have, you know,
faces and had lives.

And it's not just a case.

It's much more than that.

We have some of the original
yogurt shop material here.

Uh, these two filing cabinets
is full of original material.

And then there's multiple
other filing cabinets

at a different location.

So, just again,
the vastness of this case,

this is only a portion
of some of the hard copies.

Here it is.

So, like, we still have
all the original VHS.

I mean, this is interviews,
this is in-car camera,

this is, like, the original VHS,

and I guess
if we wanted to watch it,

we'd have to find
a VHS player somewhere.

♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

DAN:
So we have this unknown DNA...

and I gotta figure out
who that is.

That's goal number one.

It could be contamination,

or it could be another,
uh, person involved.

DAN: What's the probability
that it's contamination?

We have the original '08 profile
that went to one lab.

And then as early as 2017
and 2019,

we're finding that profile
in other places.

A different--
totally different lab.

And totally different,
unrelated pieces of evidence.

So how would you have
contamination

when you've got different areas
of the crime scene,

different people with different
chains of custody,

and these items going
to different labs

in different time periods?

It would be like winning
the lottery repeatedly,

like, the chances of somehow
samples that are unrelated

and handled by different people
in different labs

at different time periods
somehow got contaminated

by the same male profile?

That doesn't--
that does not exist.

So, I suppose the state
of Texas now is going to say

that there were really five boys
there instead of four.

DAN: It's not contamination by,

like, lab personnel
or anybody on the scene,

but to say that
that is our fifth person,

or it shows that the four
were not there at all,

it's some other person,

like, until we figure out
who that profile belongs to,

like, that's just speculation.

MARGARET:

MARGARET:

MARGARET:

Yeah.

MARGARET:

MARGARET:

MARGARET:

Yeah. I...

-MARGARET: Yeah.
-I'm-- I'm...

staying out of it
until I figure out
who that person is.

It could come back to somebody
totally unrelated to this case,

like, their DNA got transferred

for a totally normal reason,
right?

Like a friend or something.

Or it may be
a complete dead end.

We just don't know.

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

We can't think of DNA as proving
guilt or innocence.

DNA is something that says,
"I have a sample

and I may be able to tell you
who is the source of this sample

or who's not a contributor
of the sample."

But how it got there,
when it got there,

that's up to
the whole investigation

and all the other factors
in that.

Anytime you do a DNA test,

you have to take some
of the sample and use it.

Once we use it,
it's no longer there.

So when you have a DNA sample
and there's very little,

you may only have one shot at it

'cause you may have to use
all of it up.

And then there's
no going back after that.

Here they got a Y-profile
from Jennifer Harbison.

In a lot of ways,
you're pushing the envelope here

to cutting-edge technology,
if not bleeding-edge technology.

So we don't know
if this is going to get

the answer we want,
which is, uh, something,

or it's going to just be,
you know, a waste in that

because no one's done this
on this kind of work before.

It's a last effort
because there's nothing else

the case can use to...
to try to solve the murder.

♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

SHEILA WYSOCKI:
Okay, so we, y'all,

we're going to call,
bear with us,

because I'm sorry,
we may be able to solve crimes,

but we can't solve technology,
just saying.

(CHUCKLES)

All right, so this is my crew
right back here.

I told you about.

And they're all so excited
to meet you

'cause I've been bragging
on you.

Okay, we have
a bunch of questions,

but I think that where we want
to start is,

what would you do different,
knowing what you know today?

I would have
continued investigating

the creek people,

Mac and the people
that were hanging out

in the creek there with Mac.

Not to look at them as suspects,

but just to get
any other information

because there were
tons of tips about Maurice.

Under the bridge

where these people
were hanging out,

that's where Maurice
told Polanco

they're storing
the communal gun.

This communal gun

is what we suspect
would've been the .380.

POLANCO:

MAURICE:

MAURICE:

POLANCO:

(SCOFFS)

I never knew
that all that was said.

That is insane. Yeah.

I don't even know
how to respond to that.

But, I mean, you know,
when he said the guy,

Mace, who lived
in North Cross Apartments

with his mom, I mean,
he's got to be talking about me.

MAC: Yes, that would have been
this apartment,

-but on the other side.
-KEVIN PARLIN: This exactly?

MAC: I don't know
that anybody else

lived in North Cross Apartments

with their mom that was me,
you know, a--

a "skinhead," whatever.

I never thought I'd be back
here again. This is...

KEVIN: Yeah, I feel like
my childhood's

coming to haunt me.

MAC: I feel like
this was the spot.

Yeah, the yogurt shop's, what,

a two-minute walk
right over there?

What is it,
a couple thousand yards?

I mean, really, really close.

Uh, the mall is just
on the other side

of these apartments,
pretty much.

But I feel like
there's been a lot of erosion.

I think it was...

KEVIN: I think we would have
just been down here

to hide and drink beer.

-MARGARET: Yeah.
-KEVIN: That's it.

MARGARET:

-That is complete horseshit.
-MAC: I've been asked
about that.

That is so ludicrous.

MAC:

And they also asked me
for a current DNA sample

'cause I think they said
they lost the original one, so.

So number one,
we didn't have money, right?

So, if we had the money
to purchase said gun,

we weren't leaving it
in the creek.

So, this idea
of some shared community gun

is absolute absurdity.

♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

I think we had a lot of bravado

and we wanted to be tough
and cool, but we weren't.

You know. We weren't evil.
We never hurt anybody.

And, uh, yeah.

In my experience,
people don't want to hear

that there's inherently
evil people in the world

and that the vast majority of us

are neither good nor evil,

but we'll kind of
go whatever way,

which may in part explain
what happened up there, right?

Somebody was evil
and somebody went along.

I think the part I struggle with

is how did that person
who went along never,

ever spill the beans,
right?

How did they never,
ever come clean?

Because yeah, somebody was evil,

but I tend to believe people
will kind of go whatever way.

I don't ever want
to be one of those people.

LAURA GONZALES:
Everyone, I think a really nice,

good circle all the way around.

Everybody join hands, please.

We thank you, man up above.

We are so grateful
you've brought us here.

We ask that you keep
everybody here healthy

and that today we find
some peace and closure.

-In Jesus's name, amen.
-Amen.

Let's pull this away
because the capsule,

I could tell, is there
'cause look, watch.

-SHAWN: Oh, yeah.
-LAURA: So, it's there.

So, let's move this over there.
Be careful.

ANGIE:
We'll put it back where it was.

LAURA: Was it concrete
or was it a box?

PAM: I can't remember.

I remember them doing it.

BOB: There's something there.
I don't know what it is.

(SHOVEL SCRAPES THE GROUND)

BOB: I don't know
if that's it or not.

-PAM: You don't remember?
-FRIEND 2: I don't remember.

-That year was a whole fog.
-PAM: Yeah. Yeah.

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

-Ooh.
-Yeah.

-What are you doin'?
-I don't know.

(SHOVEL SCOOPS SOIL)

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

DAN: With all these roots here,

I don't think
it's going to be here.

I don't either.
Maybe it's over here.

ANGIE: Yeah, I wonder
if it's under here.

BOB: Doesn't make any sense
that the--

LAURA: Yes, she thinks
it was off to the side

of the courtyard.

And even the parents
are not very sure,

so do you think you know?
Can you help me?

♪ (SENTIMENTAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

"Best buds always," yeah.

"Amy Ayers, 2/21/92,
Mr. Sun's yearbook sponsor."

(TAPPING ON DECAYED CAPSULE)

-LAURA: Here we go.
-DAN: Got it going?

-There we go. Damn!
-LAURA: Dan, watch out.

-Oh, man. What a mess.
-BOB: Newspaper.

DAN: Something's in
a plastic bag in there.

BOB: Bring that trash can
over here and we...

LAURA: That the ribbons? Uh-huh.
That's off the tree.

-PAM: Oh, wow.
-LAURA: That's what those are.

The ribbons off the tree
when they planted it. Uh-huh.

FRIEND 3:
I do see some names there.

LAURA: Yeah, they tied them
on there when they planted it.

-"We will-- we will not forget."
-BOB: Right.

LAURA: This was the box.

KATE AYERS: I think it's nice
for them to know

that they weren't alone
in all of it,

even if they felt
that they were.

'Cause it's obvious that
a lot of people really loved her

and thought of her a lot.

BOB: That's her.

FRIEND 2: Because one time

when we were
in elementary school,

I don't know if she was in...

If it dries out,
you can tell more about it.

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

KATE: I remember
not knowing pieces of it,

but I feel like I've always
known about it.

Mm, at my grandparents' house,

they have, like, a pillow
and it has her on it.

And I'd always wonder
who she was.

And then they have
a whole hallway,

and the whole hallway

has a bunch of different things
with her on it.

I don't know,
you see how it affects them.

Dad doesn't really
talk about it a lot.

It's usually Mom yelling
at people about it, but...

I don't know, you kind of wonder
how they'd be,

how he'd be,
if it hadn't happened.

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

BOB: Well...
another chapter closed.

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

SONORA THOMAS:
There's so many ways

the loss of my sister,
30 years later,

shows up in my adult life.

My name is Sonora,
and I'm a therapist.

I'm in private practice
in Massachusetts.

One thing that really drew me
to this kind of work

is that I've spent so much
of my life trying to heal.

In the very beginning
when you lost your child,

I want to look at
a little bit about

what that initial experience
was like for you.

I think there's benefit
to telling the story

in different settings,
in different ways.

I wanted to give you

a chance to write
a letter to your child.

It could be what's happening
in your life in this moment.

But I don't think the trauma
ever loses its potency.

Like when you ask me,

"Can I remember
the yogurt shop?"

Like, I can feel
my body changing

when I have that memory,
you know? Um...

And so... I don't--
You know, that may never change.

BARBARA: Well, it's 31 years

and we're still talking
about this stuff,

and I-- I try not to.

Quite frankly,
I probably wouldn't have

-if I weren't talking to you.
-SONORA: Right.

BARBARA: But I needed
that connection with you.

SONORA: Yesterday,
we were talking about

living through this experience,
you begin to know things

that other people don't know.

And I don't think it works
that way for everybody.

No.

SONORA: Because some people

that I know in my family
became more cynical.

I can't quite find
the words for it,

and I've been trying to find
the words for myself too,

like, why these
tragic experiences

opened me up
to love people more.

-BARBARA: Mm-hmm.
-Because it could do
the opposite.

By the way, they both happen.

SONORA:
Yeah, tell me about that.

-Both of those things happen.
-SONORA: Yeah.

You do get really bitchy
and cynical about stuff,

but then you also,

you feel like
you're on the other side.

You got closer to the love.

It's amazing the tools
that we have to use

to heal ourselves,
and we rarely use them.

We get so close to the pain

that it's more comfortable
to be there

than it is to go to the light,
to where the freedom is.

SONORA: Yeah, I hear that a lot

in the trauma groups
that I work with.

"I don't like this,

but I'm afraid I don't know
what else there is.

And this is something
that I know.

I know how to do this.

I know how to hold on
to this pain.

I know how to live
with this pain."

I have this saying
that when I die

I hope I'm brave
and that I can jump into it.

-I want the freedom...
-Mm. Mm.

...to fall into that next thing,
whatever that is.

SONORA: Right,
to let go of the fear.

Mm-hmm. Let go of the fear.

JAMES: I think one of
the hard things,

and I'm realizing
30 years later,

is figuring out
how to live your life

and live the life you want
to live, after all this.

-Mm-hmm.
-You know,
not that you shouldn't care,

not that you shouldn't,
whatever, but you know you gotta

figure out what you love to do
and what you want to do.

BARBARA: Mm-hmm.

SONORA: Right.

Yeah.

(QUIVERING VOICE)
And it's really hard.

But I think it's very important.
I mean, I went back to school...

-BARBARA: Mm-hmm.
-...ten years on,

went into engineering,
which I love.

And I think the hard part

with homicide is you get tied
into the whole investigation.

-SONORA: Right.
-And is it good? Is it bad?

Did somebody screw up?
Blah, blah, blah. You know...

(SCOFFS) You know, it wasn't
until I went to an actual

focused grief group
that I really liberated myself.

And I was invited because my dad
had died that year.

And it's like, well,
that was pretty trivial.

I hate to say it. He was 85.
He'd been sick for a long time.

I spent the whole grief group
talking about Eliza.

And that was very liberating,
to actually focus on the grief.

And I think you deny that
in the homicide stuff.

-SONORA: Right.
-JAMES: Which is all necessary.

But it's not necessary
for us to do it.

JAMES: Not necessary
for me to do it.

-Yeah.
-SONORA: Right.

BARBARA:
I agree with that so much

because we thought
we were doing the right thing

to be in public with this

because we needed
to keep it out in the public

so that we would still have

the support of the community
and they could love us

and help us find these people.

You know,
every time anything happened,

we had cameras.

And as time goes on,
it takes a toll on you.

It's been 31 years.

I would not do it the same way.

I would retreat and go far away

and have some quiet time
with God.

But the thing that
we have to be careful about,

because ours has been so public,

most people don't have
the support of the community.

-SONORA: Right.
-BARBARA:
Their brother gets killed

and no one
ever speaks to them about it

and they don't use
his name anymore.

You need that love.

You need to be held
when you're suffering.

But that was
the double-edged sword

of the public.

We got a lot of attention early

'cause it was hot news.
Hot news.

Four White girls got killed.

And, uh...

and-- and the case, well,
we don't know about the case.

What do we know about the case?

Whatever they tell us,
we take it for face value.

Because it's...

Yeah, I would have taken
a step back a little bit more,

I think, that I'd--

but I felt such an obligation
to carry this thing out.

MARGARET:

-Okay.
-BARBARA: These two?

-These two?
-SONORA: Just us two.

MARGARET:
Actually, no, y'all two.

She needs a wide lens
from just us.

MARGARET:

Wasn't he sweet? He's so good.

SONORA: (CHUCKLES)

I knew I was better if I did it.

Yeah, and when he wants
to share

what his experience is--

-And he did.
-But he's scared, yeah.

I was glad.
It made me feel good.

Yeah, I know.
I'm so glad. Yeah.

Yeah.

I just... (CRIES)

I just... (CRIES, SNIFFLES)

Just put all this away
for a while.

It's been a tough couple of days

just to get going through
all this again.

But I love you and I appreciate
the opportunity to do it.

You have given me a huge gift

by talking to me
the last few days,

I cannot thank you enough.

I learned so much from you.

-I hope all this helps somebody.
-It helps me.

That's the only person
I care about.

Yeah, it helps me a lot.

I'm just so grateful

that you're sharing
your experience with me.

I don't have my mom to talk to,
but I can talk to you.

Well, one crazy-ass old lady
to the next one.

-It should blend really well.
-Right? Yeah, exactly.

-It should be the same person.
-Yeah, right.

BARBARA: All right.
Are y'all done with this?

Did you get the wide shot?

♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

DAN:
All right, we're here.

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

It's just hard to see.

The pictures on the wall,
these are some of the cases

that we've solved
over the years.

BOB: How old were
some of the cases? Very old?

DAN: Yeah, most of them
are from the '80s and '90s.

I'm sure you've heard
the same different kind of spiel

from every detective
for the last 30 years

about "we're working hard,"
you know,

"we're working on it,"
and I'm just the newest guy,

uh, but I want you to know

that I'm throwing
everything I can at this.

The DNA is, uh...

really the crux
of where we're going with it.

We're continuing to reevaluate
every piece of evidence

um, because
what may have been...

untestable a few years ago
because of what it's made of,

or its condition, or whatever,

may or may not be
something we can do now.

We've got a finite amount. Um...

It's my decision
as the lead detective,

but I'm not making it alone.

I'm bringing in people
way smarter than me

when it comes to DNA.

Um, some of the experts
across the country

that, uh, provide advice
to make sure

that when we move forward

with trying to test something
or trying...

to use some DNA up,
that we're at the best odds.

And if we don't have great odds,

then we'll just hold on
for a little bit.

If there's any questions
you have for me,

of course, I'll be happy
to answer them best I can.

It's nice to get some...

some info.

ANGIE: We've said this
over the years

is that it was always nice
to have fresh eyes on it.

We can communicate
as family members

and police department

and hopefully solve this
at the end of the day.

DAN: I'm very hopeful.

I am confident that technology
is moving at a pace

that we will be at a point

where we can take
a sample to a lab,

items that were unable
to be tested before,

with a realistic expectation

of developing a profile
sooner than later.

We are going to solve
this case someday.

I want the public to know that.

♪ (SOMBER MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

You'll have your own pain

and your own way
and your own time.

You don't need
to visit this one. (SNIFFLES)

CLAIRE: At a certain point,
the project ends

and, hopefully, the film
is finished and you let go.

This was
a different kind of thing

because I didn't finish.

It was really complicated.

I couldn't see all the angles,
all of the storylines,

all of the people.

So, the basic feeling
was a feeling of failure.

And the larger feeling was just
that I had let people down.

I felt like
I had let people down,

you know,
who gave me a lot of trust.

But I knew
that it was worth preserving.

And I'm glad that this footage
is finding a home

that feels like
a way of honoring

the folks that let me film them.

Yeah.

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

JOHN JONES:
As the years go on,

it's still sitting out there...

unsolved.

I used to hide
every December 6th.

Couldn't find me.
I'd take off work,

even when I was still at PD,
and I did when I was at Metro.

December 6th,
you couldn't find me.

And I was off in a corner
by myself.

It's my version, I guess,

of a day
that will live in infamy.

Yeah, I mean, and it'll probably
be that way as long

as it's still unsolved.

SONORA: Sometimes,
I think I have a memory,

but it's a photograph,

and it's a photograph
that I've seen many times,

and I sort of create
a story around it.

I don't think it matters whether
the memory's accurate or not,

because it's your memory.

(CHILDREN LAUGHING)

SONORA: So, you’re asking,

how do we deal
with traumatic memories

and change them
or heal them, right?

Um...

So, yeah, there is,
like, this big school of thought

that says like,
"Oh, we just tell the story

over and over and over again."

(INAUDIBLE)

SONORA: But I think
some other things need to happen

in telling that story
over and over and over again.

I think we need to have
a lot of support in doing that.

And to have the compassion
of other human beings around us

as they're witnessing our story.

There's a real benefit

for both teller
and audience member

to telling that story
and to hearing that story.

♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

I think that can change

how the memory lives
inside of you.

SONORA: Look, there's Eliza!

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

(DISTORTED BUZZING)

♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC BUILDUP) ♪

♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪