All language subtitles for Tomorrows.World.Today.S04E10.Big.Power.in.Small.Packages.720p.WEBRip.x264-KOMPOST_track3_[eng]

[narrator] Join us on
Tomorrow's World Today

as we journey through the worlds
of inspiration, creation, innovation,

and production to find the ideas and
technologies that are shaping our future.

In part three of this
four-part exploration,

George sends Greg to explore
how small modular reactors

can help provide power
to remote locations

or during natural
or other major outages.

Hi, everyone,
I'm Greg Costantino.

Thank you for joining us as we
continue our exploration of nuclear energy.

Now, today, we're gonna be talking
about small modular reactors or SMRs,

which offer a scalable
nuclear power plant solution

incorporating enhanced safety,

improved affordability, and
extended flexibility in both

electrical and process
heat applications.

We're gonna be meeting
with Dr. Jose Reyes.

He is the chief
technology officer

and co-founder of NuScale Power.

And we're gonna talk about
SMRs and carbon-free electricity.

- Dr. Reyes.
- Greg, so nice to meet you.

[Greg] Great to meet you as
well. And very excited to be here.

One of the main reasons
being that NuScale Power

developed one of
the first SMRs to gain

Nuclear Regulatory
Commission approval.

Tell me about that.

Oh, we're very excited
about that because

that was a critical milestone for
us to move forward for construction

and deployment of
our NuScale plants.

Now how does this amazing
room fit into that scenario?

Well, let me show you.

So, Greg, this is module number two
of our 12 module control room simulator.

Everything you need
to control the reactor,

its operation, start up, shut down can
all be done and monitored from this panel.

[Greg] So how many operators do you
need to operate all 12 of these reactors?

[Jose] So we only need three
operators to control all 12 reactors.

And that's very unique.

It's about half the staffing or less
than a typical large nuclear power plant.

So everything that they need to
see in order to operate a reactor,

they're gonna
see on this screen.

That's right. And the reason is it's a
very simple design and a very safe design.

So over here, we have the reactor
vessel inside the containment vessel,

which sits in a pool
of water below ground.

And that really is the
majority of our safety system.

So the fuel, as it heats up,
it will generate flow.

So the higher it gets,
the more flow you get.

So it's kind of a self-regulating
system, it's natural circulation.

In this design, if you lost
all the power to the station,

the reactors would shut down
without any operator action,

any AC or DC power,
and they'll remain cool

for an unlimited period of time

without the need to add water.

And that's just through
general convection.

That's exactly right.

This is exactly
the kind of reactor

you're gonna be building
at Idaho National Labs?

It is. So we'll be building a
six-module plant in Idaho Falls.

So it'll be a little bit smaller than,
than this 12-module control room,

but it'll be identical to that.

Great. Now, I would really like to
see how your operators operate.

Oh, absolutely.
Come, let me show you.

So, Erwin, I'd like to reduce power
on module number 11 to 85% power

so we can show some of
our load following capability.

All right. Understand to down
power on Unit 11 to 85% power.

Brock, on Unit 11, reduce
reactor power to 85%

at a rate of 300% per hour.

Understand on Unit 11, reduce
power to 85% at 300% per hour.

That's correct.

So, Dr. Reyes, when you
refer to, uh, load following,

you're basically talking
about the reactor's ability

to respond to a need
from the grid.

So if you're in a situation where you
have renewables like solar or wind,

and it's daytime
and the solar panels

are pumping out
a lot more energy.

The reactor can
actually scale itself back

and not produce as much as it
would under normal circumstances.

[Jose] That's exactly right.

We've worked with 29
utilities in the US and Canada,

and they've all said,
"We've had renewables.

We need to find a way
to balance the grid."

And so with this flexibility,
our load following capability,

we're able to balance the grid so
that you have a stable grid to work from.

Okay, now, Brock's
in charge here.

He's in control of
this whole simulation.

Exactly right. So you can see
the number 3 up there.

That means operator
number three, which is Brock.

And so he's executed the
process for reducing power.

We're dropping-- we dropped from 77
megawatts down to about 65 megawatts.

He's just monitoring
the computer programs

to make sure that they're
executing that process correctly.

If you look over
here in this pattern,

when it's green, that means
the control rods are full out.

When it changes to yellow,
that means that

you're inserting the control
rods and that reduces the power.

So this gives us a lot of
maneuverability so that

we can change power to
whatever condition is required.

Right. Now this is, obviously,
a very detailed simulation of

what it would be like to operate an
actual reactor, but it is a simulation.

What do you do to get a
real-world idea of where you are?

[Jose]
That's a great question.

So, of course, this is all
simulated with computer models.

So what we do is
we have a test facility,

the NuScale Integral
System Test Facility,

which is a thermal
hydraulic test facility,

which allows us to
produce the data required

to benchmark these
computer codes.

So that gives us a reality
check for our simulator.

- Would you like to see that?
- I would love to.

Great. Come on.

So, Greg, this is our NuScale
Integral System Test Facility.

It represents a one-third scale prototype
of our entire NuScale Power module.

So we're modeling the reactor
with all of its internals,

the pressurizer
and steam generator.

We're modeling the containment.

And we're also modeling
the pool itself.

[Greg] So what we saw on the
software side in the control room,

this is the hardware
version of that?

[Jose] Exactly right.

So here we can actually perform a
range of tests at different conditions,

at pressures and temperatures,
collect that data,

and then take that data and
compare it to our computer codes.

[Greg] Now, even though this
is a one-third size model,

when you scale it up to what
would be a full-size reactor,

how do those numbers line up?

[Jose] The measured data matches
the computer codes very, very well.

So we're very pleased
with that facility.

Excellent. Now, do you have any other,
any other sorts of mockups that you use?

We do. We have our
Upper Module Mockup.

And would you like to see that?

- I absolutely would.
- Great. Let's go.

So, Doctor, this is the UMM.
What does that stand for?

[Jose] So this is our
Upper Module Mockup,

and it represents one-third top
of our NuScale Power Module.

[Greg] So this is
something your engineers

can use when they want to
actually work in the physical space?

[Jose] Exactly right.

So our engineers can
develop their maintenance

and in-service inspection
procedures by using this facility.

[Greg] Excellent. Doctor,
this has been fascinating.

Really appreciate it. I'm off
to Idaho National Laboratory.

Good luck.

- Hey, Yasir.
- Hey, Greg, welcome to INL.

Thank you very much.

Now, Yasir, in 2017,
Hurricane Maria came along

and pretty much wiped out all of
the power to the island of Puerto Rico.

And now, even years later,
they're struggling with rebuilding.

And the facilities
that they had,

they were already problematic
because of their age.

How are microreactors fitting into
this conversation about rebuilding?

Well, Greg, as you know,
the Hurricane Maria in 2017,

when it hit, for several months
the entire island did not have power.

Even today, they're struggling with
rebuilding some of that infrastructure.

But before Hurricane Maria
hit, several years before that,

we in the nuclear industry, we have
been trying to come up with a solution,

how do we take really large
nuclear power plant technologies

and miniaturize them to smaller
solutions that we can take from

point A to point B very easily
and install them

and do a plug-and-play
installation?

Had we had that
technology during 2017,

I think we would have been able
to bring a lot of that power back

very, very quickly and
provide energy to the grid.

Unfortunately, we didn't have
that information at that time.

I am very excited today to
show you what's inside TREAT.

We're doing some really
exciting things here at INL.

Can't wait to show you.

So why don't I take you inside
and really walk you

through some of the
interesting things we're doing?

- Lead the way.
- [Yasir] Okay.

Greg, welcome to TREAT.

Behind you is
a real nuclear reactor.

- This is an actual reactor?
- Yes, it is.

Wow.

So, Greg, you know, we have
not really built a microreactor

for a very long time for
this kind of application.

So, essentially,
it's the first of a kind.

There are several industry companies that
are developing them for commercialization.

But before we get there,
we wanted to build

a very, very quick prototype
called MARVEL.

What does MARVEL stand for?

It has a very long acronym,

but essentially it's a
prototype of a microreactor

that's going to produce
both heat and electricity.

And once we are done
with the construction,

this is the very pit we're gonna
be situating the MARVEL reactor

to produce both
electricity and heat.

So it's not gonna be
any bigger than this?

It's actually smaller
than this pit.

We're going to be locating on
one end of this area and producing

and connecting to applications
and testing outside of the building.

Will the whole thing actually
be constructed inside the pit?

Well, no, it is a very
complicated device.

We have not built a new nuclear
reactor for about 50 years at the INL.

So we are... we have built
a full-scale prototype.

I'm kind of very excited
to show you that

because it is exactly the same
as the main reactor.

So I'm actually gonna get
to get a look at MARVEL.

Yep. I want to take
you to the machine shop

and actually show you
what that looks like.

- Okay.
- Okay.

So, Greg, there's been
tremendous amount of innovation

in the nuclear industry.

And for the MARVEL reactor, we really
pulled a lot of this cool technologies

and made a very simple
but yet elegant design.

So what you see here is a
full-scale replica of the actual reactor.

The only difference is
instead of nuclear fuel,

we are basically
using electrical heaters

to mimic the performance
of the overall system.

[Greg] Okay. And how long did it take
you to put this whole thing together?

[Yasir] So from ideation
to coming up with the design

and actually fabrication
and assembly,

it took us only nine months
to get there.

And that very speed was
extremely important to us

because we wanted to
really demonstrate how quickly

we can go through the process so
that some of the commercial designs

that are out there
can also go that quickly

and provide a solution
for situations like

what we have seen in Puerto
Rico with Hurricane Maria,

as well as power some of
the remote towns and villages

that require clean,
reliable energy at Alaska.

Wow, that is amazing
and excellent.

And speaking of Alaska, we're gonna check
in right now with Senator Lisa Murkowski.

[Yasir] Sounds good.

[Lisa] Nuclear is not only
a clean energy,

it's that baseload energy
that is so necessary

when you have intermittent
sources such as wind and solar.

And so when I raise the
opportunity for small nuclear,

for microreactors
in a place like Alaska,

I will tell you, most of my constituents
look at me a little bit puzzled, saying,

"Lisa, wait a minute.
We have everything else.

Why do we need nuclear?"

Think about the prospect that could
come when you have microreactors.

I... I kind of describe it,

the concept as, you know,
you can do this add-on,

build-on, LEGO type of a
concept depending on what your...

your power needs are.

But you can place
these in remote areas.

Um, you can place these in areas where
you have so little to offer currently.

And it's not just for
resource opportunity.

I think about...

I think about the small communities
relying exclusively on diesel.

You want to talk about your...
your dirty source,

and it's because they have
no other option right now.

What about the promise,
the opportunity for

what advance nuclear holds
with, again, the small reactors,

the microreactors
and the ability to help

these communities be able to...

to, again, keep lights on,
keep... keep your place warm.

[Greg] New types of
reactors can bring energy

to remote parts of the world
or disaster areas,

but they can also decarbonize
certain industries.

I'm going to meet with
Shannon Bragg-Sitton

of the Idaho Falls Energy
Systems Lab to learn more

about decarbonizing
hard to reach areas.

- Hi, Shannon.
- Hi, Greg. Nice to see you.

And welcome to the Idaho National
Laboratory Energy Systems Lab.

Thanks for having me.
I'm very excited to be here.

Now, I know, Shannon,
that the goal

with this is not necessarily
for nuclear energy

to be the only alternate
source of energy out there,

but it is gonna be a big part of
decarbonizing remote and hard to reach areas.

That's absolutely correct.

And we do a lot of
research to look at that.

So let's go down the hall and
take a look at the laboratory.

[Greg] Sounds great.

[Shannon] You know, Greg,
there's no single energy source

that can meet all of our energy
demands the same in each location.

It's really about finding
the right energy mix,

specifically a clean
energy mix, including wind,

solar, and nuclear to reliably
and affordably meet

those demands in each location.

So, Greg, welcome to
the Systems Integration Lab.

Over here on your left is what we like to
refer to as the brains of the laboratory.

And that's because
this is the hardware

that we use to represent
power systems in the grid.

Using this facility, we can
represent how our energy systems

operate within
a very small microgrid

or within a part of a much
larger grid balancing area.

[Greg] Okay.

[Shannon] And over to the right is
sort of the heart of the laboratory.

And what I mean by that is this
equipment helps us to understand

how we can bring in all those
diverse energy sources together

within a single energy
park type of configuration

and understand how we
distribute that energy in real time

to meet a variety
of energy demands.

It really feels like we're in the middle
of an energy producing power plant.

Well, you kind of are.

So let's go walk in
and see a little bit more.

Okay.

[Shannon] So the goal of any
power plant is to produce electricity.

And some generators produce that electricity
directly like solar photovoltaics.

But a plant like a nuclear plant
is actually a thermal power plant,

meaning it primarily produces heat
that then must be converted to electricity.

Well, how efficient
of a process is that?

Is... is all of that heat used in
the production of electricity?

Our power plants today are
only about 30% to 40% efficient,

which means when
we convert to electricity,

about 60% of that heat that's generated
is actually rejected to the environment.

So it's just not used at all, just
sent out into the atmosphere?

That's correct.

And so some of the work that
we're doing today in this laboratory

is about how we better
utilize that heat.

So let me show you
how we're doing that.

On my right is a microreactor
emulation testbed.

What that means is we represent
a very small nuclear reactor

and how that heat is then
distributed to other energy users.

So this isn't actually
a nuclear reactor.

No. What this testbed allows
us to do is use electric heaters

to represent the heat that
would be produced in nuclear fuel.

So it looks like a reactor
from the system perspective.

And then we deliver that heat to a
thermal energy storage system behind me

and to a distribution system that allows
me to send that heat to energy users.

Now how do you do that?

How can you store heat for
any appreciable length of time

and then shift it off to some
end user like a chemical plant?

Well, how you store it
depends on the temperature

and the time frame that
you'd like to store that heat.

That could be molten salt
storage, concrete storage,

or what we have here is a
thermocline energy storage system.

Is this only applicable
to nuclear energy?

No, it really just is
about managing heat.

So that means it's applicable
to any thermal generator

such as a concentrated solar plant or
even a fossil plant with carbon capture.

Okay. Now that leads me
to my next question,

what other kinds of energy sources
are you working with here in the lab?

Well, we've talked about heat.

And we can convert that
heat also to electricity,

and those two things are
necessary to produce hydrogen.

So let's go look at what
we're doing for hydrogen.

[Shannon] So over here is one
of our hydrogen testbeds

where we're using water to break
it down into its constituent units

of hydrogen and oxygen.

Over on my right is
a water purification system

that takes water in
and makes sure that

we don't have impurities in that
water before we produce it to steam.

And that goes into this
chamber behind me that

then is broken into that hydrogen
and oxygen in something called

a solid oxide electrolysis cell.

Okay. Now what are the
advantages or why use hydrogen?

Well, hydrogen is an extremely
versatile energy carrier.

And what I mean by that is that
we can put all this hardware down

and produce that hydrogen
by that power plant,

by that source
of heat and electricity.

And then we can store it and transport
it to a number of different end users.

And hydrogen can be used to
produce electricity when it's needed

or it could be used to
power a fuel cell vehicle

where then the only
by-product is water vapor

or even in steel manufacturing,

where going by this
hydrogen-based process

can reduce
the emissions by as much as

90% relative
to today's practices.

That's amazing.

Now what are the advantages
of this method

as opposed to other methods that we've
used for ages to break down hydrogen?

The traditional approach to
producing hydrogen is a method

called steam methane reforming.

And what that basically
means is we take natural gas,

we combust some of that
to produce the heat necessary

to break down more natural gas
into hydrogen and carbon dioxide.

Which we definitely
don't want to do.

We don't want to add any more carbon
emissions into the atmosphere than necessary.

[Shannon] Absolutely.

And when we go about producing
hydrogen using either water electrolysis,

which occurs at lower
temperature or steam electrolysis,

we only produce
hydrogen and oxygen.

Is that oxygen then
capturable and usable as well?

[Shannon] Absolutely.

And we're working with a
number of industry partners now

to better understand
how we can use that oxygen

as well to support those
chemical processes.

Now this all sounds
like an upside,

except for the fact that there
are portions of the world

that are experiencing droughts and
actually don't have access to fresh water.

Do we really want to be
breaking that down?

That's a great point, and that's
another application of these

integrated energy systems
where we can use that clean heat

and electricity to purify water and
increase water supply in those regions.

So you can take a microreactor
to one of these remote locations

and literally change the
entire structure of that society

by giving them access to
consistent power and clean water.

Absolutely.

And we can do so in a way that
allows that power to be available

when it's needed, where it is needed,
and maintain affordability as well.

Shannon, thank you very much.
This has been amazing.

And thank all of you for
being with us as we continue

our exploration
of nuclear energy.

And be sure to join us on our
next episode as we continue

to look at this
amazing technology

and where it will take us
in tomorrow's world.

For Tomorrow's World Today,
I'm Greg Costantino.