Original subtitles

Hi. I'll be your host for this commentary.

My name is Masato Kobayashi. I'm a film writer.

Let me introduce our guests:

the director, Takashi Miike, and the screenwriter, Daisuke Tengan.

Hi.

Should I say "Nice to meet you" or "Good evening"*

I'm guessing most people won't be watching this during the daytime.

- Good evening. I'm Miike. - Hi, Tengan here.

This year marks the 10th anniversary of Audition.

Many of Miike's films have been successful abroad,

but Audition is especially popular.

This film has influenced horror writers all over the world.

In 2007, Time magazine named Audition

one of the top 25 scariest horror movies,

alongside the likes of Halloween,

The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, and Bambi.

How did you feel about that?

Well...

I didn't make this film to compete at international festivals

or to make money overseas.

I just wanted to do the best job I could do

while staying under budget

and still getting some enjoyment out of the filmmaking process,

so it makes me very happy

for the film to get such recognition.

I feel like I'm Yoji Takita with his movie Departures.

Well, they probably won't know what I'm talking about.

That's a timely topic!

You know, it's been a while.

And I've been drinking a lot lately,

so you're going to have to forgive me if I remember things incorrectly

or if I get something wrong.

- Looking forward to that. - Okay.

Tengan, how do you feel about the film's success?

As I recall, when I accepted the job,

there were a lot of Japanese horror movies being made.

I remember Miike told me that there was no sense in making another one.

I think that horror movies are generally done

by filmmakers who genuinely love horror movies

and who specialise in making horror movies.

Neither of us specialised in horror movies,

so we knew right away that we'd have a different approach.

As a result...

I was chosen for Masters of Horror.

And again, we wanted Tengan to write. We didn't want anyone else.

Even for this genre, we wanted Tengan.

And I don't specialise in horror movies.

Oh, yeah, I'm going to ask you about Imprint later.

Well...

The original story was by Ryu Murakami.

You adapted his book to film.

Did you know the story before you started production?

I had heard of it.

I had not read it yet.

Yeah, me neither.

So how and when did this all get started?

Well...

There's this company, Omega Project. It's a unique company.

And there was this guy, Yokohama.

He wasn't in the film industry.

He started this company

as a way of making money.

And this was a so-called "independent film."

He liked the novel.

He thought the story was interesting, and he thought it'd be a good movie.

So, he teamed up with Shindo, our producer.

They talked to Murakami, and they got the green light from him.

They discussed who they thought would be best suited to direct.

I think that's how it started.

So, we weren't the ones who brought in the story.

How was the original book adapted for the film?

I think it's close to the original story.

At least in the first half, it's very close to the original story.

You did a good job at making it feel more faithful than it is, Tengan.

Right, right.

In the beginning, Murakami had a lot of ideas,

a lot of opinions about how it should be made.

Since it's his story, it's his baby, but also because he's a director, too,

so I pretended to listen.

When we finished the film, we brought it to Murakami.

Right when it was completed, there was a screening for Murakami only.

We weren't even there.

But just after the screening, he called me, and he was very excited.

He said, "This is awesome. This is great!"

Apparently, he liked the scenes we changed from the original story.

I got the idea that he was willing to trust other people

to turn his story to a movie.

But the basic story was well-written. We put that into the script.

When you think about it, all we really had to do

was add actors and sets to the equation, make it real.

That's how we made this film.

Of all the movies I've made,

very few of them stick so closely to the script,

but this was one of them.

Some scenes toward the end did end up

being different from the original story.

I used some more cinematic plots.

It is pretty different from your typical horror movie...

but I think that's what made it interesting.

So, do you not consider Audition to be "horror"?

Well, usually horror movies deal with...

something supernatural or demonic or whatever.

So, how do I put this?

People get spooked by that.

They shake in fear.

From my point of view, humans are much scarier.

Humans can be demons or angels.

So, in this movie...

well...

all the characters in this are just regular folks,

but regular folks have dark sides,

and here those dark sides are portrayed in kind of a bizarre way.

Aoyama ends up like he does, and he is responsible for that.

One common theme among these characters

is that they just want to be happy.

Usually Japanese horror movies

are based on old Japanese legends and scary stories called kaidan.

It's always about grudges, resentment, that kind of thing.

Sorrow, you know...

Jealousy, sometimes.

So, dead people become these spirits of vengeance,

and they terrorise the people who are still alive.

Now, I don't know that I would know how to direct that kind of movie.

I don't necessarily want to make a movie with that kind of story.

And of course, like we said,

it didn't feel like we were making a horror movie.

Yeah, how should I put it?

Murakami's original story was about trauma,

and it seemed to be more of a psychological suspense,

so this movie was developed with that kind of genre in mind.

I think when people go over the edge, they get totally messed up.

That's normal. That's human nature.

And what's happening isn't always clear, but using a movie to show that is easier.

We can mix up many things.

Here's my take on it.

I think that Murakami experienced, in his life,

a fear similar to what Aoyama,

played by Ryo Ishibashi, was feeling.

He was making many films at that time, and had many auditions.

In those auditions, I don't think he met anyone like Asami,

but he probably met someone,

and in meeting that person, something strange happened.

I felt like this story could be a personal message to that person.

The message might be "I still love you."

Pretty unfair form of communication, by the way.

But maybe that's why it doesn't seem like fiction.

The original story seems to be written by a writer

who has experienced something like this.

Since Murakami didn't originally come from the film industry,

I think that when he got involved in directing and making movies,

he must have found some things very interesting, even strange.

Like auditions. We do auditions; that's what we do.

But from his point of view, he was probably like,

"Oh, she's sexy," and she's going, "What? Really?"

And when he starts wondering why someone would come to that audition,

that can evolve into a really scary story.

Maybe he did something to someone. We don't know.

As a writer, he probably saw something

that he found really intriguing.

How was Murakami involved during production?

Did he show up on the set, or...?

No, no. I only met him one time, actually.

We had a meeting and we talked about a lot of things.

He didn't give me any detailed instructions.

I think he wanted to get a feel for who I was.

He'd entrusted me with his story; it's only natural he'd want to meet,

but he didn't give me any ultimatums or say that I couldn't do this or that.

He was not that kind of person.

He's onscreen now.

The main character was played by Ryo Ishibashi.

Ishibashi is also a musician.

He was in a number of Yakuza pictures before Audition, wasn't he?

What made you choose him for this role?

That's a difficult question.

Well... we thought...

It had to be a middle-aged man who was still pretty attractive.

Ten years ago, he looked like

a normal adult man...

At least to us.

He looked like he was kind to women, and because of that,

maybe he could be insecure or unhappy even though he's sexually attractive.

We couldn't think of anyone else besides Ishibashi.

What else?

My intuition had told me

that he was hungry for something.

There weren't many engaging roles in Japanese films at that time.

He was wondering what to do next.

I think he always had Yusaku Matsuda in his mind.

He wanted to be competing with him,

but there were no good roles for him to compete with Matsuda.

So we thought... if we can offer him a good movie,

he could create his own world.

In the scenes toward the end,

he gets all mangled up.

He can't even move, and he just groans in pain.

It must have been so uncool for a rocker like him,

but he wanted the part, he wanted to play it.

It felt right at the time.

How different was the character played by Ishibashi

from the character that Tengan had put in the script?

It was close.

Like Miike said, he had to be sexually attractive.

And he looked indecisive.

In other words, even if he says, "This way,"

he could be thinking, "It may be that way."

So he's concerned. He doesn't know what to do.

He has that kind of feeling.

And...

his age and his looks matched the character perfectly.

I didn't know him then.

When I saw him at the screening,

I asked him to appear in my other movies.

It was because he had made such an impression in this film.

Do you like having auditions

for the films you direct?

Do you do auditions a lot?

You mean, like, regular auditions?

Yes.

Do you ever just pick someone you don't know to be in your movie?

Yeah. I think that's the basis for creating something new.

You might like the person.

It's a gamble.

You can't know everything from an audition.

But you can get a feeling.

You chose the person, it's like trying your luck.

Or, you can insist that you got lucky,

because you'd already chosen them long ago.

So...

But you can't complain because you're the one who made the choice.

And sometimes you can't decide.

How about you, Miike? Do you like having auditions?

Yeah, I like them, but...

when I'm having an audition,

I get this funny feeling, like I'm actually imitating another audition.

In other words...

I'm just copying what I've learned from older colleagues,

so my auditions aren't specifically "mine".

So, these days, my assistant director will hold the auditions,

which allows me to watch from the side and sort of be more objective.

And if I feel like asking or saying something, I will.

But when I think back, I've definitely held auditions where,

the moment the person comes through the door,

I know they're the one.

Yeah, me too.

That's exactly how Aoyama felt in Audition.

He had this strong feeling just from looking at her picture.

So, when he sees her, his mind is already made up.

He asks some questions, but...

it's just confirming the feeling he had.

I think it's very close to my experience.

You encounter someone who was born to play the role.

As soon as the person opens the door, you know that they're the one.

I think that's true of a lot of auditions.

How about the auditions for this film?

That is, for Audition did anything like that happen?

Do you remember?

No. For this film, most of the actors were...

Well, we thought about Asami's role. We researched a lot.

And we met some people,

but it wasn't like an audition.

We already had someone in mind,

but we thought that maybe that wouldn't be fair,

so we decided to see some actors.

For other parts, we sought out...

unique actors to play certain roles.

This house we used as a set is located in Seijo.

No, it's located in Denenchofu, an upscale residential area.

We made a surprise visit to this house, which is just owned by a regular family.

We asked them to let us use the house.

We put all the family members in an upstairs room for a few days.

We were filming till midnight.

It's amazing they let us use the house.

Did you show up there without any notice?

No, we actually took half a month to negotiate and get consent.

And since we used every room in the house,

when we left, it was sort of like moving out.

So, you sort of lived on set.

It was a very Japanese way to shoot a movie.

We begged to rent this house from this family.

How did Dead or Alive and Audition influence your career?

I mean, you used to make direct-to-video movies and genre films.

Now, you make films that are screened at international film festivals.

I think these two films must have given you an opportunity

to go in a new direction.

So, for you, Miike, would you say that's accurate,

that these two films had an impact on your life or your career?

Well, aside from my personal feelings about those two movies,

the fact is that Audition helped me a lot,

and it happened at just the right time.

Yes, I directed this movie,

but without the producers who wanted to make this film

or Murakami's original story, it wouldn't have happened.

Without Tengan's screenplay, it wouldn't have happened.

I once realised, "I see."

I am a filmmaker, but it's not as though

I made the film all by myself.

There were a series of encounters, and this film came along.

And because it did, a lot of things changed significantly.

It started in a small festival called Courmayeur.

From there, it was selected for the Rotterdam Film Festival.

I got an award.

Since I was used to those direct-to-video movies, the "*-Cinema",

film festivals were like...

something from another planet.

So, I thought...

I wasn't worried about pleasing foreign audiences.

"If I keep on doing whatever I'm doing in Japan,

"people around the world will watch them."

And that was a great thing.

Film is a very powerful medium.

So, this movie is very important to me,

but it's difficult for me to get away from it.

I'm currently working on a film that is considered "normal,"

so in Europe they're going, "Miike is finished,"

and "The man who made Audition is gone."

But that means that it had a huge impact, didn't it?

I think so. After Audition and Visitor Q,

Imprint, which was also written by Tengan, came along,

and people started to consider me a horror movie director.

We just saw her picture on the screen a little while ago.

Shiina, the main actress, was in Tokyo Gore Police recently.

Right. She's back. Yes.

She quit once because she had her heart broken.

I heard she was in Kyushu.

She came back and she's doing good.

I see. So, she hadn't been doing a lot of acting.

Yeah. Well...

She doesn't seem to be interested in living the life of an actress.

She's had her good moments and her bad moments,

and, you know...

It's not everything. It's not the most important thing.

She started out as a model.

She was different from other actresses.

The feeling she gives this film wasn't created from whole cloth.

It was kind of her true colour.

We wanted to bring that feeling, as it was, into the film.

That's Eihi Shiina.

It's difficult to create that kind of aura in acting.

We have to make up an episode for her.

There isn't much information about her in the movie,

but her presence itself just feels ominous and foreboding.

How about you, Tengan?

Yeah, she's very mysterious.

Wasn't she in a Yukisada movie? I saw her in something at a screening.

She was mysterious. We're not sure if she's like that normally.

And I think we didn't really get to know her.

We wanted to keep our distance to keep that feeling as real as possible.

It feels like she has something inside that is disturbing.

Her natural tension just makes people feel that way.

I think that fit the film.

Now we're seeing the audition scene of this film.

Who are these people?

Some of them are young prospective actresses.

By the way, this lady is a staff member.

We improvised some of these, which made it like a real audition.

We just left the camera rolling and kept the good ones.

But I'm not really very good at that kind of thing.

It could've been better.

This scene is kind of sluggish.

But the sluggishness could be perceived as being very Japanese.

In Japan, once we say "Okay," it's difficult to do it again.

Back then, it was very difficult to check rushes and reshoot the scene.

You're destined to make some mistakes.

Your film will have some mistakes.

Accept it and move on.

So, that brings some uncertainty and imperfections that were not planned,

but the effect is mostly positive, I think.

If it was perfect, and it dictated the audience's feeling,

people would feel like it was too calculated and overdone,

and I'd guess it probably wouldn't have been so popular.

It looks like you took a long time to shoot this scene.

It was just rolling.

There were no bloopers.

We would just call "Next!" That's all we did.

And there were people who were watching the audition.

They were waiting for their turn and watching on the side.

They watched the people performing.

They couldn't figure out what to do. Some tried very hard.

Others were totally nervous.

There were no directions, so it was very realistic.

Even just looking at her back, I feel something scary.

She has something. I wonder how she is in real life.

We're going to see some horrific stuff.

If we could see her ambition as an actress or something,

we could understand what she wanted to do.

But she wasn't like that. She was so mysterious.

We didn't want to ruin the mystery,

so we tried not to talk to her much.

We didn't try to understand her, and she didn't ask us anything.

That was our relationship.

Even 10 years later,

I probably still don't know who she is.

By the way, this scene is too long.

We wanted to show the audition going on and on and on

to show how long it took to finally get to her.

The title is Audition and this is the only audition scene.

I think these two male characters are totally opposite.

Kunimura is...

How can I put this?

Back then, he was already established, but he was an unusual type.

He wasn't an actor everybody knew.

The pros knew who he was.

He was very cooperative.

He doesn't have much ego, and he pays attention to what's going on.

He thinks about how his character should be played

in relation to the other character, Aoyama, played by Ishibashi.

Of course, it was described in the script, but for example,

he chooses his tone of voice based on the other actors.

It depended on how the others acted.

He is a wonderful actor for a director.

In this scene, she is wearing a white dress.

Does that mean something?

It's more of a suit.

Well...

We wanted it as simple as possible.

It doesn't show much pride.

At first glance, she looks like an open person.

But you can't actually tell who she is.

We tried to use a simple costume for her.

It applies to her hairstyle and makeup. She had very little makeup on.

How old was she back then?

Who? Shiina?

I think she was 23 or 24.

Ishibashi is talking now.

She has an unusual face.

Let's talk about Tengan's career.

Okay.

You've been involved in many movies as a writer,

and you direct, too.

Can we talk about the films you directed?

- The films I directed? - Yeah.

I directed Aiki and Ishibashi was in that, too.

And I did Waiting in the Dark.

The Most Beautiful Night in the World hit the screens last year.

I've done some documentaries, like Muteki no Handicap.

I'm so twisted.

I'm twisted.

Last year's movie was so twisted.

- What do you think? - I'm a huge fan.

He's not trying to please people.

I think, in Japan,

there are very few people who make films like that.

It's like it's not his job.

It's more like fate. He makes films because it's his fate.

Meanwhile, we make films to make a living.

It's the complete opposite.

What do you think?

Maybe it's not my job. Maybe it's fate, like you say.

That's the ideal.

If it were like that forever that'd be great,

but it can't always be like that.

Did you like writing Audition?

Yeah. I like writing screenplays.

So, I enjoy writing for myself and other people.

I really enjoy writing.

Is there a difference

between writing for yourself and writing for other directors?

Recently, there has not been much difference.

But when I've never worked with a particular director,

since I don't know the person very well,

I'll tend to write more details.

This was the first film that I worked on with Miike.

The whole time I was writing, I wondered how Miike would direct it.

The script was very detailed, so I had a lot of questions.

"What does that mean?" "When did this happen?"

But everything just had to be accepted.

I realised that maybe I didn't have to understand everything.

You can't always tell which scene is from whose point of view.

When I was reading this story,

I thought everybody would share time with somebody,

but each person probably has a totally individual perspective.

Three people are here right now, but we all see this moment differently,

and things take on entirely different meanings from alternate points of view.

That's the reality. When we fall in love and spend time together,

we tend to think we share the same time and same kinds of feelings,

but actually there are two thoroughly different worlds.

Each person has his or her own world.

And people forget to think of each other's feelings, or world.

So, oddly...

the sequence in the last half was actually kind of natural.

I wasn't trying to make it eccentric.

I shot it in a natural way.

So, after Audition, as you guys told me,

you worked together on lmprint for Showtime's Masters of Horror.

I was criticised by so many people for that.

I was told to do whatever I wanted to do.

American producers watched Audition, and they liked it.

I was chosen for Masters of Horror. All big-name directors on the series.

And the 13th film, the last in the series, was mine.

I wondered why they chose mine for last.

I thought, "This is going to be so much fun."

It was for cable TV, and they said I could do whatever I wanted.

America is a country of liberty. There is freedom of expression.

They told me to do something I couldn't get away with in Japan.

So I did it, and they said, "That's too much."

They said, "We can't air this on cable TV."

In England, it was shown uncut,

so it was still watched by a lot of people.

But I do think that putting Tengan and I together...

is dangerous for producers.

But we haven't learned our lesson. He's writing a story for me right now.

It's going to be a serious, period-piece drama,

and Tengan is writing the story.

- Is it 13 Assassins? - Yes.

I think some folks in Toho may even pass out...

when they learn what the story is about.

They don't understand us.

It's unbelievable.

Yeah, they'll misunderstand. They'll never get it.

So, are you allowed to talk about the story?

It's not that I'm not allowed. It's just that it's unfinished.

We don't even know where the story will end up yet.

I can understand distributors worrying. We need a big audience.

And it's going to cost a lot,

so if we don't get a big audience

we will lose money, and I understand that.

But how do we want to entertain the audience?

Maybe it'll just be an okay film for people to come and have a good time,

but that's not what we're after, that's not what we're shooting for.

We don't find that kind of movie very attractive.

We're not against that kind of thing,

but if we're being true to ourselves, the movie is going to be crazy.

There are landmines placed throughout the story.

It's very exciting.

We're going to set a new record for most people killed in a story.

The number is unbelievable.

It seems like no matter what I write, there are always characters left to kill.

Just wait until you see it.

So, the screenplay is almost finished?

Yes, almost.

Are you planning on shooting this year?

Yes.

We are planning to show it at the Venice Film Festival next year.

That's our goal.

Miike, you studied filmmaking at a school

founded by Tengan's father, Shohei Imamura, right?

Well, I went to school, but I'm not sure if I studied or not!

I would like to ask about your relationship with Imamura.

Can you tell me about your work relationship?

Or were you friends?

Well, I was...

before... how do I put this?

Imamura is surrounded by fascinating people,

a lot of very unique folks.

And you go, "How did these people get involved in filmmaking?"

I was working as an assistant director for TV shows.

My role was to make sure the production was on track.

The job and I were like oil and water.

I don't think I'm someone who should ever be an assistant director.

A person like me is not supposed to be there, at least usually.

But I guess I was useful in a way.

I don't think Imamura was expecting much from me

as an assistant director.

I wasn't Imamura's understudy or anything like that.

The way they lived and worked was reflected in their movies.

It was about how your life became intertwined with filmmaking.

That was the big difference from other directors,

and that's not something I can duplicate.

So, I have to make films in my way and with my own voice.

I just have to do it in my own style.

That's what I learned from him. In that sense, I'm like him.

Doing something different from him was the way to go.

But I really regret that I wasn't of much help to him.

He had this way of looking at me, like, "Why are you here?"

So, did you guys know each other before this?

Not really. We had only met once.

You might not remember this, but I met you at a New Year's party.

Yeah, that's right.

At that time...

I had just started working for Imamura.

I see.

So, we knew each other but hadn't yet had a conversation,

and I got a call from him for this film.

I heard about him through Inagaki,

who was working for Imamura as a set designer.

They were saying, "Daisuke Tengan is a really thought-provoking guy."

The people talking about Tengan's productions really seemed to...

enjoy feeling the pain.

I think they really felt like they were making something.

They seemed to have fun and enjoy the uniqueness.

It had obviously been a pleasant experience.

Is that accurate?

Yeah, my productions are tough,

but I think Miike's productions are tough, too.

Yes, physically tough.

It's the same thing.

We didn't have a lot of time to shoot this, you know?

How many days?

How many days? I don't remember...

but I think it was about three weeks.

Is that too short for you now?

No, but back then, three weeks was one week longer than usual.

On most of my movies, I had to shoot everything in two weeks,

and I got really used to working like that.

I knew how to direct in that kind of schedule.

As time went on, I'd get more and more days to shoot.

If, all of a sudden, I get a whole three months,

that would be a huge movie.

If we worked for three months

as intensely as we work on those two-week shoots, we'd die.

So, having three months means we'd work more leisurely.

We'd have to make each day a good deal easier on everyone.

I didn't know how to do that.

Far from it,

my style was pushing everyone as much as I could, working hard,

even when we were exhausted, and finishing in two or three weeks.

Tengan, what about you? Was it always a battle against time?

Yeah, it was like that for me, too.

Short and concentrated.

Even if we have a lot of days to shoot, it still feels very tight.

You have to struggle to keep your concentration.

I heard Tarantino talking about you.

He said Miike was the director who was making the most films.

And it's true. You make a lot of movies.

What's that like? How are you able to do so many?

Well, there are a lot of directors who are just constantly putting out films.

Directors of "Pink Films" in Japan, for instance, put out tons of stuff.

In Mexico, there are movies coming out all the time.

It was never my intention, really,

to be known for making a lot of films.

But it's kind of convenient.

Oh, that's scary. The bag moved suddenly.

It just kind of happened.

I didn't set out to make so many. It wasn't part of some big scheme.

It just kind of happened that way.

After every movie, I always feel like I only have one movie left in me.

When I'm shooting a longer picture,

I think about making commercials or something on the side,

just by using extra time, the crew and equipment are already there.

I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to make so many movies...

but in Japan you can't really make a living if you're not shooting all the time.

I understand.

Ishibashi looked skinnier back then.

I think he's a size bigger now. He looks very dignified.

He didn't always have a lot of roles, but things have been happening.

He had always wanted...

to work in Hollywood, to try something...

he wanted to try something outside of Japan.

And if he wants to follow Matsuda's example,

he has to go abroad, and that's what he's been doing.

He's been putting himself out there. He learned English.

Miike, did you go through any changes

during the shooting of this?

Well... how can I put this?

Well...

This was not the first one.

Even though it wasn't a big production, I wanted to use film,

and I wanted to make it for theatrical release.

Before this, I used film for promotion,

to sell videos to the theatre audiences,

theatrical films as promotion,

so even though this wasn't going to have a big budget,

it was my intention for it to be seen theatrically.

It was really the first film that I made specifically for that format.

You used to make "V-Cinema",

but after Audition and Dead or Alive

your area was bigger, your audience was bigger.

You made bigger pictures,

so you sort of went through three different arenas of film.

Now do you think about the budget or the genre

when you are considering a project

and thinking about which gig to accept?

No. No.

Usually... the way it usually goes...

If I'm not paying close enough attention, then it can really go any way.

But from the producers that I used to work with,

to just the people I hung out with,

some, obviously, have come and gone over the years,

but others have kept plugging away.

Sometimes people will form a new company or something,

and that might be a place where I can bring a project.

Time passes, and gradually...

everyone who once worked together has scattered to different areas,

and each person is working hard to make their own way.

But when they get the chance,

sometimes they'll think of me and give me a call.

This has happened time and time again with people I used to know.

Inevitably, my films are staffed with folks who've all worked with me before.

I see.

My goal isn't necessarily to get every person in the country to see it,

but when a lot of people watch your movie

and you're recognised in the industry,

it's easier to get a lot more freedom on these low-budget projects.

Casting becomes easier.

You don't have to sacrifice quality.

So, I will keep on making films and meeting more people.

Look at stuff like genre movies or "Pink Films",

those can be made with very low budgets.

They don't have to be huge movies.

I want to make interesting movies.

What are your plans for the future, Tengan?

More directing?

Well...

My approach to filmmaking is a little different from Miike's.

When a professional makes a film, it can be intriguing,

but lately I'm thinking that there are limits to what they can do.

I want to make something that is amateurish.

A pro makes movies as an occupation.

They don't want anything in there to be unnecessary,

but they lose something when they always work in that mind-set.

At least, that's how I feel.

It's kind of the opposite of how big movies are approached.

My roots are in independent film,

and I think that's the direction I want to return to now.

It's difficult in Japan, because there aren't as many producers.

I mean...

I find something interesting and want to do it with these people,

and we find some people to make it happen.

Then we get together and create something.

But the current producers in Japan are kind of all the same; they're trendy.

They say, when we edit, "It's too long."

And I think, "What's wrong with being too long?"

They say, "The pace isn't good," or "This line isn't necessary."

They don't want anything unnecessary.

If the movie's nothing but good stuff, I think that gets kind of boring.

They like big stars in the movies,

and the big stars have to look cool.

And to make them look cool, they bring in other, less-cool actors.

It's so unnatural.

People who try to resist that tendency,

I think that's a great quality to have.

That's definitely something Tengan has.

It's a weapon that you can use to shape your film.

In America, there are factors that create variety in filmmaking.

For example, we can't tell if Steven Soderbergh is a pro or not.

Tarantino is totally an amateur...

at least in that sense.

Can you explain that?

He doesn't know how to shoot.

Really?

He knows what kind of shot he wants.

When I went to see the shooting of Grindhouse,

he was having fun riding in the stunt car.

He was saying, "This is scary! It's so cool!"

And they just keep on going. They go on and on.

In that sense, he's not trying to be a "professional" filmmaker.

And for the audience, that's why he's great,

they keep that atmosphere and let him make whatever he wants.

They can still commercialise his films and make a lot of money.

But there are some people who are really proactive.

They challenge.

They want to be successful, even for just a short time, in Hollywood,

rather than having a long and "safe" career somewhere else.

In Japan, there are no producers like that at all.

So, there are many, many films that come out that are all right,

but they aren't very interesting or challenging.

It's extremely difficult for unique voices to compete in that environment.

Everybody has the same style.

They try to make it appear different by using more distinctive music,

or fancy cutting or camera movements,

and they may think that that stuff makes their films unique,

but I don't think so, it's not about that.

So, I was lucky. Miike understood my story.

I wrote the story, but I was always wondering,

"What are people going to think when they read this?"

I wondered a little bit.

But I handed it over, turned it in.

I was so excited to meet him and get his reaction.

And he said it was good.

So... that's really how it all came together,

and that made me really happy.

But even with Miike behind it,

if other people had found it confusing or unclear,

the movie wouldn't have received the recognition that it has.

The audience wouldn't have found it as interesting.

In Japan, it's pretty difficult to make this kind of film.

What was it like when you made Imprint?

We knew that might cause problems, but we did it anyway.

It was a shorter-form film called Imprint.

It was close to the original story.

I got the impression that they really wanted me to do something.

They'd seen Audition overseas.

One good thing about Audition,

you'll never know the reason why the movie was made.

That's the power of it.

For Imprint, we had direction. We knew why we were making it...

so in that sense, it was easier to make.

That could have been our motivation... for crossing the line.

I never thought about it like "crossing the line," though.

Audition was so much scarier.

The story was realistic.

The original story was like that.

Imprint had a story that was kind of set in its own world.

It wasn't that real-life kind of fear that you feel with Audition.

With Imprint, I think Miike took his enthusiasm to an extreme.

Hey, I just did what the script said to do.

This guy's the dangerous one.

But it was impossible for American audiences

to understand killing an infant because of poverty,

or getting an abortion or throwing a baby in the river.

They probably didn't see any reason for there to be movie about that.

The reaction to Audition between Europe and America was very different.

In London and Paris, there were all these female reporters.

They said that I was a feminist.

They thought, "Hey, she's getting revenge on these womanisers."

In New York, I was told by male and female reporters that I was the devil.

I was like, "Really?"

I wanted to say, "Asami is the devil in this, not me."

Each country has its own reaction.

They have totally varied perspectives.

Audiences from Japan, Europe and America,

they all had very particular responses to watching Imprint.

But Tobe Hooper, the director, told me...

that when there was an announcement in the newspaper

that the film wouldn't be aired on TV, that's when I became a real director.

Which was very Tobe Hooper of him to say.

He is awesome.

Yeah, I'm not sure if that makes me happy or not.

I felt like the plot's development in this was covered up.

For example, you learn about Asami, but only little by little.

Her strangeness is revealed very gradually.

It all happens very slowly.

Was that the plan when you were writing?

Was that what you wanted,

or did you guys have discussions about the pacing and things like that?

In the original story,

it doesn't show how Asami lives or much of her background,

but she says things that sound too peculiar to be true,

and I really wanted to emphasise that aspect in the script.

And I think Miike had a vision of where he wanted to take it.

Yeah, as far as the plot, I left it up to him.

Whenever we'd meet, I told him to do whatever he wanted to do.

He took the story where he wanted.

You know...

a screenplay is kind of...

its own art form,

separate from the final film.

So it's up to... the writer.

In Japan, writers are appreciated for incorporating the opinions and ideas

of the producers and the directors; not only is that appreciated, it's expected.

They're expected to listen to everybody's opinions.

Of course, when you work that way...

you have to actually use these ideas from all these other various people.

That's why I wanted to leave him alone as much as possible.

When I read the story for the first time...

except the last sequence...

I thought that it would be relatively easy for me to shoot.

So, for the first hour,

which is the first 60 pages in the script,

everything's pretty normal, there's no jumping around in time.

As a movie, it's explanatory, it's very matter-of-fact,

and it includes some scenes which could have been cut out

so the audience could get the impression

that this movie is not all it's cracked up to be.

It was like, if the plot didn't move forward enough in the next five minutes,

some audiences would have walked out, and by then it'd be too late to reach them.

So, it's almost too late.

They spend the first hour thinking that the film is not what they heard about,

getting more and more frustrated as it goes along,

and then, suddenly, the plot develops in a crazy way.

So, I find the plot very uncommon.

But upon reading the story, I could imagine how to make it.

I knew how I should do it right when I read it.

So, I think that's...

that's probably the biggest difference between the original story

and the plot of the screenplay.

What do you think?

When I write,

if the story belongs to a certain genre, such as psychological thriller,

I would have the story develop at a faster pace for the first half.

Maybe put in more action scenes.

I'd probably use more cinematic plots.

Once I realised this film wouldn't be like that, I stopped writing.

I realised I might have been going in the wrong direction.

I left the script for two or three days.

I was just waiting for something to hit me.

Then the thought of playing with time occurred to me.

Even if the story goes back and forth in time,

I thought the audience should still be able to follow it.

And since they were seeing it visually,

it'd be less confusing than it would be to read.

Because of CG technology, we can do anything now.

We can control space,

so the audience isn't going to be impressed, necessarily,

regardless of what we do with time and space; they've seen it before.

But sitting in a theatre, you're sharing time with others.

You're forced to share that time.

So, I thought, if I could work on that, it could be intriguing.

That's what I was thinking.

As Miike said before,

we share time when we watch something, and sometimes it's slow,

and sometimes it's fast, and I wanted to control how that felt.

I really wanted the audience to feel an acceleration of time in the last half.

That's what I wanted to do.

Miike understood that and did his thing.

When I saw this film at a screening...

I was impressed in a lot of ways.

The story was perfectly visualised.

When I write, it's the world of imagination.

Here he is. Renji Ishibashi.

He's kind of a toy in the Japanese film industry.

Everybody has fun playing with him. Just how to play is up to you.

He'll tell you, "I'm not your toy," but he really does enjoy it.

As an actor, he knows what he's doing.

He's in several of my movies. I really love him.

Was this film the first thing you did with him?

We did The Bird People in China.

He'd say, "I'm an actor who can handle the shooting,

"even in remote areas, so don't worry about it."

But then he'd start whining and going, "Do you know I was a child actor?"

"I can't handle this anymore."

He was whining.

I thought that was hilarious.

I really wanted to put him in my movies.

He's just an enthralling guy.

He's like a vestige of an older Japanese film industry.

He worked with Shintaro Katsu all the time.

He missed him a lot. He wished Katsu was there.

Although I wasn't a member

of any of the five major Japanese production companies

and I've worked freely,

when I come into contact with someone like him,

it reminds me that the older generations are not irrelevant to us,

nor are we to them.

He genuinely loves acting.

He had special makeup on that day.

No, it's not that day. He had another scene.

He had some crazy makeup on for the scene.

And he had to wait for eight hours.

And there was another guy who was waiting there,

so he kept on telling the other actor, for eight hours,

how terrible the shooting of The Bird People in China had been.

So, when I told the actor, "I'm so sorry we made you wait,"

he said, "No problem. Thanks to The Bird People in China, I didn't get bored."

He was able to talk about it for eight hours.

It must have been tough for the listener, actually.

Had you worked with him, Tengan?

No, I hadn't.

This is so confusing.

But we feel something from him. He is awesome.

Let's talk about the scenes coming up.

It relates to the story.

I think she had experienced some trauma in her childhood,

and it became this huge part of her. Her love became obsession.

That's how I look at it.

Her only way of showing love was through torture,

since she had been tortured when she was a kid

by the Renji Ishibashi character.

She thought they were the same thing.

That's why she tortured people she loved as an expression of love.

Yeah, that's one way to look at it.

She may have some other reasons.

Like...

I can say that you're right about her craziness

growing out of the nature of events that happened in her past.

I think those things had an impact on her in very special ways.

To play a role, actors usually ask lots of questions,

and they try to better understand the character.

But she felt intuitively that she knew how to play this role.

We didn't ask how she interpreted it, because we liked it that way

and we wanted to hold on to the mystery.

We didn't force our image of the character on her.

Usually we're supposed to understand all of the characters in a film.

That's the director's job

and the assistant director's job, I've been told that all my life.

"You need to understand your characters.

"Use your understanding to direct them."

But, in this case, I didn't understand,

and I couldn't pretend that I did.

So, when we were not sure about something, we asked Asami.

That's what we did. It didn't always clear up our questions.

Even if we got an answer, we couldn't tell if it was true or not.

Come to think of it, this seems to happen to me a lot.

The idea of cause and effect

is, of course, easy to understand, and it's very useful,

but there are things that are unbelievable.

The past Asami talks about sounds a little different

from what the real story must be.

So... well...

Look, Miike visualised something as disgusting as this.

I wrote it, but I wondered if you would actually shoot it.

And he did. He visualises every single line.

When I saw this scene, I realised that he shot everything.

So, it was written in the script.

Yes, it was.

But a lot of directors don't or won't shoot everything,

and some will get mad if I don't write out every little detail.

But this guy shoots everything that's in the script.

Did that make you happy?

Well... I'm not sure.

I felt, sometimes, that I could have written some parts better.

But I didn't feel like there was anything unnecessary.

The director of photography was Hideo Yamamoto, right?

Yes.

Had you worked with him before?

When I was making "V-Cinema"

and I was an assistant director,

he did a lot of work on set, mostly as a camera assistant.

Unlike in America, we have to climb up the career ladder.

The person in the lowest position loads film,

then starts pulling focus after learning some stuff, then adjusts apertures,

then becomes chief, then finally becomes a camera operator.

That's how the Japanese film industry works.

And I was the third assistant director, and doing slating.

Then I was the second, then chief, then finally I became a director.

In the camera department, the climb to the top is a bit faster,

but it's close, it's almost the same.

I think we went to the same school, too.

- Right. - Yokohama.

I think we were in the same year or something.

I knew his name.

But you didn't meet until you were both on the set.

Right. We met when we were still assistants.

One day, we were going, "Wow, we came all that way."

But it's not like...

we were best friends or anything.

We eat together sometimes, but we don't know each other real well.

We're not aware of each other's personal lives.

When I want to respect someone...

I want to keep a good image of them in my head,

and I think knowing them too well can be detrimental to the work.

The more we just work together,

the further my image probably goes away from the reality, I imagine.

But he's very flexible.

He has some hang-up about death.

Yamamoto shot one of Takeshi Kitano's films.

It was Fireworks.

His films are very different.

He almost died once. It might've been an attempted suicide.

But he recovered and started shooting films.

So, he had a near-death experience.

What's interesting about Hideo Yamamoto is... he prays.

His father and mother both died early on in his life.

She died right after he was born.

None of his relatives are living,

so I think he thought that when he got to be his parents' age, he'd die.

He could've been thinking that since he was a kid.

It's natural. He's tried to forget it, but can't.

That's who he is.

So, whatever life he's led past that age has been like extra time.

He's okay, too, he's very healthy.

But that's not something anyone can just learn.

You can't create that in the frame

or in the lighting.

But how he lives definitely shows in the picture,

no matter what he shoots, it shows right there.

For me, it had to be Hideo Yamamoto.

He doesn't want to do anything eccentric.

He doesn't try to make a good picture.

He regrets it when he makes a good picture.

He likes simple shooting.

I don't think he likes being told, "That was a great picture."

I think he likes making a good film, not creating a good picture.

I really appreciate that approach.

So, do you work with him often?

Yes, we do.

We did Yatterman together.

That had nothing to do with death, though.

I heard you had a promotional tour for Audition.

Was that in 2001 ?

Right.

And then 9/11 happened.

Right, it was the same time.

We were planning to attend a film festival in Toronto.

We were going to do a promotion for Ichi the Killer.

The promotion came with barf bags.

It was this big event where the audience received barf bags.

Anyway, we were going to go over there for this promotion.

Right before that, it was going to be released in Los Angeles.

So, we stopped off in Los Angeles for this other promotion.

We went to Los Angeles and promoted our film,

and on the day we were going to fly to Toronto,

we found out something terrible had happened in New York.

Of course, our flight was cancelled, and we couldn't go to Toronto.

They were wondering if they should even continue the festival.

They decided to continue with it, to show that the terrorists had not won.

I thought that was great.

We were going to go back to Japan on a flight out of San Francisco.

So, as we're driving from Los Angeles to San Francisco,

we found out Dead or Alive was going to be released that same day.

They invited us to come and promote that,

so we showed up and did an audience meet-and-greet.

That was a strange series of experiences.

It's totally off-topic,

but Imamura's last work was September 11,

and Tengan wrote the screenplay.

I guess you guys made the film together, right?

When I heard about the project...

I thought it would be great. I thought it was a great idea.

It was something inevitable.

Imamura wasn't expecting anything like that.

Right. The project was brought to him.

But he really felt something for it, and decided to accept it.

This was great. Tomorowo Taguchi was incredible.

It was an almost inhuman performance.

I think that film is a masterpiece.

And you wrote the screenplay, Tengan?

Yes. One of the stories.

And they brought the project to you?

Yeah, yeah.

It was 11 directors from around the world all working together on one movie.

And the theme was the attacks?

No, it wasn't.

There was this piece of Chinese poetry.

A author named Masuji Ibuse had translated it,

and Imamura added one line to the end.

He wanted to make a film out of this poem.

He wanted to do it with Ken Ogata,

and he left the story part to me.

He was like, "I want to shoot this. The story is up to you."

You can't tell who this guy is. Even Japanese people can't tell.

We talked about Fireworks, which was shot by Yamamoto,

and this guy was the main character in that.

The movie received the Golden Lion at the Venice Film Festival.

His name is Ren Osugi.

He's received all kinds of awards for best actor in Japan.

When he eats vomit, he says, "Yummy."

He is also a "toy" type, like Ishibashi.

Could you believe it when he accepted this role?

Well... many actors are actually...

not very happy about the roles they usually get.

The more popular they become, the more likable roles they have to play.

They get typecast as these likable guys, even when they're bad guys.

And when it's a good guy everybody has to feel sympathy for him.

Most actors are outlaws.

Many of them feel like, "I didn't become an actor to say this stupid line."

I think he really wanted to play this kind of role.

This is so terrible. He's only wearing briefs.

This was the special makeup scene, right?

We talked about the eight hours, right?

This was the scene they waited for.

The guy in the bag, Ren Osugi, he was the listener.

That's a scarier situation than the story in the movie.

How frightening.

The frustration exploded in the form of great acting,

and that made the movie scarier.

Somewhere around here, as Tengan talked about before,

the story starts going back and forth in time.

There was order up until this point, but now it's starting to get messed up.

The characters start losing control.

Directing these scenes, it's like something was driving me.

We couldn't discuss it too much.

The story made sense to us somehow,

and we didn't want to change that feeling.

Did you shoot the scenes in the order they were scripted?

In order? There's no way to shoot in order.

We have to shoot everything for each set one set at a time.

It gets all out of order, but that's inevitable.

It's inconvenient, but there are also good things about it.

We have control over the movie.

It gives us a measure of control over the actors.

If they don't follow instructions, there will be continuity problems.

So, I can keep my film under control. For the most part.

Oh, the scene where he gets killed.

She looks very happy for some reason.

Cutting meat. Just cutting meat here.

For the last scene...

the sound guy, Kenji Shibazaki, did a really good job.

He's done most of my films,

and he's probably done half of all Japanese films, really.

Yeah, most of my films, too.

He's a really strange guy.

Like a little boy sometimes.

He makes weird sounds and noises that other people can't make.

He was in the studio for a long time for this scene.

The scene was like this, she's cutting through flesh,

and she's cutting into a big bone with this wire.

And he was trying really hard

to create the sound of the moment the wire finally reaches the bone.

The sound changes when it reaches the bone.

He put all his efforts into that scene.

If his parents saw how he worked, I bet they'd have... mixed feelings.

When I saw him right after Imprint,

as soon as he saw my face, he was like, "Was that okay?"

I went, "I don't know."

This whole bit, this scene...

It was a little different from the original story.

What really struck me, what stayed with me

was the simplicity of each character in such crazy situations.

Things get really messed up, but they're still simple people.

She changes her clothes, she follows the right steps.

Things go back and forth in time.

But she handles the simple process of cutting legs with no problem.

It's not an illusion, it happens for real.

There was a contrast.

And I felt scared when I was reading it.

How did you feel when you were writing?

I wrote in a bit of an elevated mood,

but when you see it visually, it suddenly has become real.

That's the power of visuals. When I see it, it makes me feel sick.

It's started.

From this moment on, Ishibashi can't act anymore.

She injects him with something. All he can do is move his hands.

And groan. He can just groan.

I think he had concerns about how long he had to be like that.

When we started shooting,

he was a little concerned,

but as it goes, Asami made him feel like he could do anything.

So, he was willing to move just his hands.

Of course, he's an actor and he's acting,

but all his tricks and tools as an actor have been taken away from him here.

But he's the main character. He has to be there.

Shiina never asked...

why Asami was doing this.

But she looks most beautiful in this scene for some reason.

It's interesting. Oh, he is moving his hand.

Did you have a special way of shooting this?

No, nothing out of the ordinary.

But... you know...

this may sound strange, but the atmosphere on the set...

is kind of gentle and calm for violent scenes.

It's filled with love.

When they fight, the punches can't hit anyone.

But it has to look like they hit. For this scene, it has to look painful.

And it accelerates.

That's cruel.

She really looks like she's going to go "Kiri-kiri-kiri" in that cute way.

What she's doing is horrible, though.

She can't help doing this, and that feeling shows on her face.

She kind of looks happy.

I think this scene turned out to be pretty great.

Casting was great.

If it wasn't her...

- It would've been different. - I think so.

She is not trying to show who she is.

She doesn't have any intention of doing that.

It looks like it took a long time to shoot this.

We try not to take too long to do these kinds of scenes.

I mean...

Of course, it took more than one day.

For instance, in regular scenes, we'll break on normal schedules,

but we can't just break for an hour in the middle of a painful scene.

Even if it's a little rough, we have to keep moving.

Our camera guy wanted to add one more light here,

but he knows the priority is the actors, not the lighting.

I don't have to say that. He already knows.

In that way, we keep on going without losing the tension.

Of course, we shoot till very late at night.

You know, when you were a kid,

and you were really tired at night,

wasn't it fun to stay awake just because your parents had told you not to?

We'd all start feeling excited after 2:00 in the morning.

We're all used to being on the set,

but it suddenly becomes something like a fun event.

We shoot scenes with some special makeup on one day,

and move on to the next day.

Or we take a few hours' break and move on to the next scene.

There's no other way to do it.

There's a consistency to her. She always has it.

Here's where she starts cutting his legs.

This scene seemed to have had an influence on Hollywood movies.

The impact of the scene was so strong.

Yeah, Eli Roth.

Right. Hostel was the example.

They really love horror movies,

so this ended up being one of their favourites.

It didn't start with this movie. There were others before it.

But from their point of view, they really enjoyed it, I guess.

I wonder if there's anyone else in America besides Eli Roth

who will listen to this commentary.

He might be watching this with Tarantino.

It's difficult to imagine

what kind of person would listen to this.

But if it's Eli, I can imagine that.

Can you hear me, Eli?

Can you hear me? Can you hear me, Tarantino?

This scene...

She's always the same.

I know it's a movie, but she's been acting crazy for a while.

And she always had this way of making it all appear normal, you know?

In this sequence, for example, where she puts liquid in a syringe.

She just does it as if it's something she does all the time in real life.

Oh, no... That's bad.

The sound effects were great in this. The sound of the cutting.

She's smiling innocently.

- That looks incredible. - It's classic.

This was great.

How was the special makeup done for this scene?

Matsui did the makeup. I work with him a lot.

He's weird, too. It's like his life wears special makeup.

But he's wonderful.

We offered him this gig with very little time or budget,

but he doesn't think about that stuff, he just concentrates on doing his best.

I heard that in Japan and some other countries,

sometimes people would walk out because of this scene.

Yeah, there were always some at the festivals.

Some people came without knowing what kind of movie it was.

They thought it was about an audition.

There were some who couldn't take it even if they knew what it was about.

One time, I was at a festival and I was watching it with an audience,

and this person walked up to me and said, "You're sick."

In English, of course. She had to say that to me.

When she left, the audience around me started clapping.

They were like, "She left! You're sick!

"You're sick! You're one of us!"

They were like that.

I think it's natural to have different reactions.

When we sit in the dark, we have our own preferences.

We have our own favourites.

But there is a tendency to try to make films

that everybody can enjoy and cry together over.

To me, that's unnatural.

I went through all kinds of criticism at many different festivals,

and I think...

We should all make different movies. That's the way to go.

In that sense, this movie was very successful...

since you got such a variety of reactions.

I think the audience's feelings and reactions are stronger in a theatre.

It's scary to watch my own films with audiences.

When it's for foreigners, I don't know how it's being translated or conveyed.

Some folks get mad, but others enjoy it a lot.

The reactions of the audience are always diverse.

It's completely different at each and every festival.

You can feel it right there.

That's one reason I find my job as a director so fascinating.

Have you watched your films with theatre audiences?

Yes.

- It's not comfortable. - It's uncomfortable.

Yeah, it makes me very restless,

and I feel that way whether they like it or not.

I would probably feel better if someone told me, "You're sick."

I really was scolded by this middle-aged lady.

That's funny.

In Hollywood, they love remakes. They love to remake old movies.

Several Japanese horror movies have been remade in America and other places.

Have you received any offers like that?

Yes, I have, frequently.

Over there...

they don't want to miss anything they see as having potential.

But it's about timing.

Good timing or bad timing.

And I think, for this film...

I think it matches the story to have Asian characters.

If they were to remake this film in America,

it could become something completely different.

There she goes.

Have you had offers to direct movies in other countries?

Yes.

Do you have any plans to do something like that?

Oh, definitely. It depends on my schedule.

For one thing...

I think...

the pay would be much better than it is in Japan.

But we have different philosophies about filmmaking schedules and time.

Going over there would be like selling one or two years' worth of my time.

I just can't get used to the idea.

We've negotiated but not agreed, and the projects fade away.

Do you mean that you have to start committing your time

once you've accepted a project, even before shooting begins?

I just feel scared that my freedom will be taken away.

Also, it looks tough. A lot of people are watching you in Hollywood.

You have to show rushes to the guys in suits.

And I like the privilege of final cut.

So, I'm just not sure if that's where I want to go as a director.

So, 10 years have passed.

Time flies.

When you see this film that you made 10 years ago,

do you have a different impression than you did before?

What do you think?

It's well-balanced in certain ways.

I think there was a good balance among the actors, the crew,

the director and me.

That had to help.

If there wasn't a good balance, it would have turned out differently.

I think there are things you can make only at certain times.

I don't have any complaints watching it now.

It does feel a little like watching somebody else's film

when I see something I did 10 years ago.

But it's precious.

I don't want to change anything. I have no intention of changing it.

Can you tell me what Audition meant to you,

as a director, when you think about your career?

And Tengan, when you think about how your screenplay works,

what does Audition mean to you? Can you tell me?

I'm just glad that people other than Japanese movie fans

have watched this film, people from all over the world.

Cult movie fans.

We rented a regular house, we shot it in Japan,

and it was accepted the world over just as it was.

I really feel that...

there are a lot of things I can do in Japan.

I don't have to leave Japan to do a big film that finds an audience.

When I go overseas and tell people I wrote Audition...

some people get so excited.

It reminds me that so many people...

from all different places have seen it.

I think the film has a power, and that's led to it being so recognised.

I feel incredibly lucky to have been involved in it at all.

All right. Thank you both so much.

And remember, we're working together again on our new project.

I'm not sure what's going to happen.

It will be allowed to be shown.

It better be!