Original subtitles

You know, I worked on uh the big

takeover with for Jack Rabbit. He needed

photographs every now and then, and one

day he just said, "The replacements are

playing um at the Cafe Degrant." So, I

watched them play and I photographed

them just after the the So, I thought

I'd talk to them and see if I could take

some photographs maybe afterwards or

something. And so, I was leaning up

against the wall and Paul started to go

by me and then he sort of like just

looked at me and he planted one

on on me. He just gave me a big old

smack on the lips and and I I just was,

"Oh, I see.

Hello." And that's how we met.

Why the replacements?

>> Yeah. Um

>> Um

>> Um

Wow.

>> I think you should start.

>> That's a good question.

For me, just for me, it so much of it is

is honestly just coming from Minnesota.

I was walking down the I was walking

down Henipin in downtown Minneapolis and

I looked up and and Tommy Stinson was

walking directly toward me and you know

he had he just was looking like Tommy

with his hair is just red and big and

he's wearing like tight pants and and

Converse Allstars and looks like he just

rolled out of bed but looking 10 times

better than I will like ever look. and

he was walking toward me and I I kind of

looked at him and I just I looked away

really quickly, you know, and usually I

have like, you know, you like seeing

kind of celebrities or rock people,

whatever, but there's something about

him. If I looked at him too long, I I

kind of felt like I I would have been

busted, you know, because it was

he would have known, you know, he would

have known like how I felt and how big

they sort of were to me.

When you were

a fan of that band,

you lost your map. You lost your way and

you went somewhere

somewhere somewhere somewhere else. You

went somewhere else and then you found

your way back.

>> It's not for everybody, but if it's for

you, it's it's a lifetime

and you'll never be rid of it.

And I kind of wish that

it was just common knowledge. Like you

don't have to convince a whole

generation of people that Bob Dylan is

the greatest songwriter that happened in

that time period. You don't have to say

it. It's just understood.

And so it's, you know,

but it's fun to say it. It's fun to be

one of the people who

knows. And

[Music]

you know, if Dylan only sold 100,000

records, he'd still be Dylan.

[Music]

You got it. Check

[Music]

two. Check one two two two.

Good. Check one two two one.

So, my first recollection of the

replacements

was uh

the Peter Jesperson, who was the

I hate to use the word taste maker, but

uh he he pretty much passed on a lot of

his knowledge of music and pop music to

the customers of Orfolk Joe Opus.

brilliant record store and not unlike

High Fidelity if you've seen that

though. Our store was even more funky

than that.

>> Warfolk was kind of like the coffee

shop. You didn't get coffee there, but

everybody hung out there looking through

records, sitting out the window sill,

listen to tunes. There was a old bottle

pop machine that you could, you know,

clank them out and there was 10 cents, I

think, a bottle. And it was it was a

social kind of look like a social club,

you know,

>> in his position at the record store.

People dropped off tapes, you know, all

the time. And I I I was there the day. I

can remember remember it vividly. They

had the little office in the back. And

>> at night as he would go through the

receipts to order for the morning's

order, he would listen to demo tapes

that he'd gotten in the day. And that

was the first inkling we'd heard of

anything about them was that they were

called the impediments, which was what

their first name was. I mean, he

literally said, "You guys have got to

got to come back here now and hear

this."

>> Heard the tape and thought, "Wow, you

know, these guys are really great." I

mean, Paul was no dummy, obviously,

because he knew where Peter worked and

he knew he was the DJ at the Longhorn.

He knew about Twin Tone.

>> If you were on Twin Tone Records, well,

that was, you know, what punk rock came

out on in in Minneapolis.

>> The Baclan was open for a very short

period of time. And they had as one of

their musical

guests was a band called The

Impediments. And the impediments were

put off stage before they even got on

because they brought alcohol into a

non-alcoholic club. And I was actually

doing lights for that particular event.

And we ended up not having a show that

night, which is the quote unquote first

replacement show.

>> The impediment's name never lasted. I

don't they never even played a gig under

that name. It would quickly became the

Replacements.

>> You know, I think that the the actual

first one was the show at this halfway

house. It wasn't really open to the

public.

>> And I went to one of these sober dances

at a place called Team House. And this

must have been 1980. And there was a

band playing called The Replacements. I

remember thinking two things very

vividly. First, that they were the worst

band I'd ever seen. And second, that

they were the best band I'd ever seen. I

really couldn't figure it out because

that's the whole thing of punk rock,

right? That it's bad, but it's so so

good. And they mostly played Johnny

Thunders and the Heartbreakers covers.

And Tommy was 13. And I remember also

that he had a big pot leaf decal on his

bass at a sober dance. You know,

obviously a harbinger of things to come.

But uh they weren't like good good like

good at playing their instruments, but

there was something so unbelievably

compelling about them that I was I was

completely convinced from the first

second that they were the best rock and

roll band that I'd ever seen in my life.

Now, at a sober dance, were they

>> Well, they only got to do their one set

because uh apparently there was an

incident in the dressing room, an

alcohol-related incident in the dressing

room, and they they weren't asked to

return to finish the engagement.

>> In the late '7s, there was a a bar

downtown called Jay's Longhorn, and uh

that that pretty much was the epicenter

of of the Minneapolis punk scene. It was

the bar where any national or

international touring bands would would

play.

>> It was kind of like the Minneapolis CVGB

but cleaner.

>> I can recall the first time I saw him

down at the Longhorn.

>> A lot of buildup to to the show and

actually seeing them

>> and that that was their first public

showing.

>> I get goosebumps thinking about now.

>> It just, you know, had this awesome

energy. I would remember literally going

into the ladies room, taking off my

t-shirt, and ringing out the sweat.

>> You know, each one of the four guys was

so interesting to watch on stage.

>> All my favorite rock bands, it seems

like the people in the bands are almost

cartoon characters. They've each got

they've each got a certain kind of

personality.

>> In part because of the physical element

of Tommy jumping all over the stage. You

know, he'd be like jumping three, four

feet in the air. That kid used to walk

around with ankle weights during the

days so he could work on his uh stage

jumps.

>> Paul, you know, you know, reaching up to

get to the microphone.

>> Paul kind of turning his his uh thing

when he played kind of sideways and

pushing down.

>> And Bob had that sort of silly yet

malevolent kind of like evil clown thing

that he could kind of get going

sometimes, too.

>> And then there's Chris. She like I

remember he just never seemed to play

much in the way of Phil's but he was

like

it kind of reminded me of Rockham Sakum

Robots the way Chris was playing.

It was loud. That's that's what it was.

>> But it was it was a it was a it was a

good loud. It was a different loud, you

know. It was a different a different

thing that you hadn't heard before. just

them because it it was very it had all

the qualities of oldtime rock and roll

but but had something new in it and it

wasn't necessarily like punk rock. It

was something else,

>> right?

>> So it was just very exciting to sort of

see it

when

they're still were basically in their

innocence and that's you know sometimes

a band never gets better than that.

Sometimes they just don't get better

than that.

It was reviewed in the St. Paul Pioneer

Press and that review said this is the

best American debut by any band since

the New York Dolls first album.

>> There wasn't a bad song. It was like a

Sergeant Pepper, like a punk rock

Sergeant Pepper, you know,

>> my favorite rock and roll record ever.

>> I was just playing the [ __ ] out of it,

wearing the grooves out, you know? It

was just great, you know? I mean, I love

that album. And so I just said, I'm

going to get their autographs and and

and each one of them signed the signed a

different name. Like I think Westerberg

said Reg Presley and then Stinson went

Billy Idol and then Bob went drone and

then the only one who signed their name

normally was Chris Mah. So you what I

really loved about Sorry Ma was reading

the liner notes. Um they had those

really funny liner notes like that that

struck me as really self-depreciating in

a way that I guess I hadn't really seen

bands before. You know what I mean? like

rock band I always thought was supposed

to be cool or something and then and you

know their their liner notes I can't

remember what song but it was like could

have been better if we would have tried

harder

>> to hear a band with that kind of sense

of humor you know was a really extra

edge I think it's one of the things that

completely gets lost when people retell

the story of what happened with punk

rock they all make it sound like it was

so angry and it was so serious and so

like you know full of outcasts who were

you know wanted to express their

distaste for society. Well, it was all

those things were part of it, but it was

also a lot of people having a great load

of fun and using black humor, a a

massive strain of black humor to make

people laugh at, you know, the foibless

of stupid society. Well, there's some

great stuff on Sorry, Ma. Taking a ride.

I mean, that's as good as anything they

ever did. As good as anything anyone

ever did.

>> That one never gets any respect. And

that's such a good song. Like, that's

unreal. just the the the kind of urgent

like da da da d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d the weird chord

changes there. They just sound so like

dissonant and so perfect.

>> It's also a perfect guitar solo. That's

the coolest thing Bob ever did on the

guitar.

>> There is no song that

does what customer does to me.

Describing what that song encompasses

would take more words than the song

takes. You know, you've got a class

struggle going on there. You've got

romance,

you know, you've got uh teenage and

frustration all encapsulated in I'm in

love with a girl that works in the

store. I'm nothing but a customer.

And uh you know, if

if you could sit down and write with

such a word economy

all the time, I mean, that would that

would be heaven, wouldn't it?

The attitude of that first album is

something that's kind of impossible to

describe. It's something they could

never capture again cuz it's completely

born of a group doing it for the first

time.

I saw him um in the entry dressing room

downstairs and he was, you know,

completely naked and he was surrounded

with shopping bags full of clothes and

Carly was down there with him and she

was kind of like pulling stuff out of a

bag and holding it up and he'd say,

"No."

>> Okay, so Bob's wearing a tutu. Cool.

That's what I expected.

>> Corduroy sport coat and a tutu. A tutu.

I like the tutu.

>> He was wearing a Prince 1999 shirt, you

know, and it was a child size small, you

know, it was skintight purple tutu and

uh I don't remember what the footwear

was, but you know, that was a weird

night.

>> Sometimes he'd be wearing no underwear

under his tutu.

>> He wore a cape several times.

>> I know. I saw Bob in a garbage bag. I

may have seen him standing in a garbage

can.

>> I do remember Bob Stinson standing in a

garbage can.

>> Well, I think he had both a garbage can

and a tutu on. you know, there was this

garbage cane on stage and all of a

sudden like he was in it and then he was

like playing the solo and I think it

tipped over while he was soloing and and

I don't think it really slowed him down

any.

>> Uh Dr. Seuss leotard, you know, the

white cat in the hat, white and red

stripes

>> wrapped Yeah. head to head to foot in

tin foil. Literally like head to toe in

duct tape.

>> I remember the diaper

>> kind of a longer possibly knee length. I

was dressed kind of like your church

lady dresses.

>> He would do piouettes in it while taking

these really blistering solos.

>> Really ugly.

>> Yeah. He would look like [ __ ] Carmen

Miranda up there. And he had a a really

funny, you know, some people have just

funny bodies. He's got a funny body and

lots of it would be showing.

>> And Bob comes out wearing a pair of

overalls with no shirt on and a big foam

cowboy hat like you'd get at the state

fair. And during the encors, it's

playing late and he's he's smoking away.

Well, he started dropped a strap off his

off his overalls and then dropped the

other strap and was holding his arms out

while he was playing and Tommy ran

behind him and pulled down his overalls.

And jeez, it just I had to be in the

front row for it.

It almost seemed like on some level it

was a drunken art project with Bob that

the dresses and stuff like it was

performance art on some level.

>> It was about Paul and the the band

performing what they wanted to perform

at the time, not I'm going to get this

song out and I'm going to put this

emotion to the song. It's like I'm just

going to have fun and if I'm pissed off

I'm going to share my anger with the

audience or if I'm having a fun time I'm

just going to have fun and I don't

really care. And that I don't really

care is

the mantra. It is the I don't really

care. We don't really care what you guys

think. We're having fun. We're not here

to entertain you. This isn't a

spectacle. You know it may be a

spectacle. It isn't about being a

spectacle. It's about us having a good

time, getting through the night, making

some money so I can make tomorrow's

rent.

>> I think that Stink is one of the two

best American records ever made by

anybody.

>> It's got beautiful emotion and raw

energy in it.

>> Stink record, which is like really rough

and ugly and and funny and genuinely

seemed like they were like on our side.

That opening song, Kids Don't Follow

with the

>> This is the Minneapolis Police. The

party is over.

>> Oh man, that just blew my head off. I

thought this is so cool. Well, it was a

party, this rent party for a guy by the

name of Don Hsho is a local artist. They

the police had come once and said, you

know, you you can't you either if you if

the liquor is not gone, you know, we're

going to close this place down. And so,

of course, we just said, you know, hell

with you. and you know, we're just going

to keep drinking either right after one

of the bands played or right before I

think we saw them they came up the

landing, but uh I'd recorded one of the

other bands and my machine

I looked over and generally I would stop

it and noticed it was still on pause. I

had it in the pause mode and then and it

which was I had it wired right into the

PA with my other stuff. So when they

came walking across the room, I thought,

"Oh, I wonder if they're going to come

to the mics." I thought, "Oh, they're

they're gonna come to the mics." So, I

just reached over and unpaused it and

my big moment in history.

>> Uh, you were at that party. How many

cops were called for that? You remember?

>> I I remember being tons, but I think I

just talked about it because I saw Dawn

and apparently he said there were only

like five cops.

>> The big question too is is that Dave

Perner saying [ __ ] you? I don't know if

that is or not.

I drove a school bus when I was 18,

which is strange to think of in itself,

but every Friday, uh, from that album, I

have these kids in junior high, and if

they were well behaved on the bus, I

would I brought my boom box and I would

play [ __ ] school really loud on on

Friday, and they just they loved it.

Just I was their favorite bus driver for

about five minutes there.

>> The first record hadn't sold all that

great. We were still worrying about a

lot of returns coming back. And to save

corners, we thought we'd handstamp the

album jacket, save money on printing

costs and jacket costs. Also, the

novelty of a handstamped cover, making a

collector's item, and just it kind of

helps the myth and everything else.

>> There were I don't know how many copies

had come in um all blank. And so Paul

just said, "Stamp it." I actually did a

took a um plastic fork and put it on the

to do kind of a fake UPC code

>> and there the information on that

originally was all done with potatoes

where we would put a potato on the ink

pad and then put it on stink. All the

all the original red ones I think were

all done with potatoes

>> with a potato. What was that?

>> Somebody's uh old um art background I

guess. You carve the word stink

backwards in a p in a potato

>> and

>> and stamped it in ink. And

>> who was carving?

>> You know, I can't remember.

>> But somebody was doing the potato

carving. I was merely a potato letterer.

>> It might have been a competition where

we all got potatoes and had to do it.

>> But, you know, it was just like any

means to cut. You know, Twin really

didn't want to do the record. And

um especially after they had realized,

you know, you do these EPs and it costs

all the costs are the same as doing an

album but you can't sell it for for as

much. So like it's a total, you know,

money loser. Any way that we can cut

corners to um put it out.

[Music]

>> What's your favorite replacement song?

Go.

The rumor that went around the

neighborhood was that you guys know how

Tommy Stinson [ __ ] quit high school.

He went in there, man. He went into the

principal's office with a boom box. He

had a cassette tape with [ __ ] school on

it. He pressed play. He gave the finger

to the principal. He [ __ ] walked out.

That was the story.

Tommy, Bobby's younger brother,

he was both the mascot and the emblem

of what they were. Yeah,

>> he was the actual teenager whose

alienation

and and uh and uh and chaotic

rebelliousness

Westerberg was articulating and

enacting.

>> Tommy was a kid, you know, he was 12 or

13, you know,

>> uh and so there were, you know, problems

with him playing bars and going on tour.

Peter had to be legal guardian so that

he could go around touring the country

and so on because he was underage.

>> You know, basically he he grew up in

rock and roll clubs, you know, uh most

of the time sitting in the dressing

room, sometimes sitting in the van

because the club wouldn't let him in

except for, you know, when they were on.

>> Tommy was a little the rock star. All

the girls in my school and all the

surrounding schools liked him.

>> Girls used to stalk Tommy

>> and just like make movies of him walking

down the street. Tommy was a little

snot. He was the sweetest little kid

that you could ever imagine. He wasn't a

like a popular kid.

>> He was the brat,

but not a mean brat.

>> I think Tommy's the best bass player

that I've ever played with and I I put

him up in the in the ranks of like the

three or four best in the world. You

know, I still listen to replacements all

the time and and his bass playing is one

of the main reasons.

>> I think he and Bob played a 10 string

instrument together.

>> I remember the the first time seeing him

at the Longhorn, we were all kind of

like, you know, like, who wow, who are

these guys? You know, it's like, okay.

Um, you know, we were we were kind of

obsessed with uh with with playing hard

and fast and uh these guys roll out and

they're playing um hard and loose.

>> They were clearly the two reigning kings

of the hill.

>> They were kind of the Beatles and the

Stones of American punk rock. I think

that within the sort of petri dish of

Minneapolis music that these guys fed

each other. Yes, they were they they

were rivals, but it wasn't nasty.

>> I I think both bands wanted to see the

other band as the second best band in

town. One one of the things that that

both bands did was was get out and just

demonstrate that that you can just be

yourself and play really great music and

and not be bothered by uh you know um

trends or or or you know oh I need to do

this to be cool. It's like no you just

go out and you just do your thing and

and you are cool. We we didn't really

give a [ __ ] about what anybody else

thought about how we looked or what we

sounded like. We were doing what we

wanted to do. Well, it took two years

for them to finally make it to New York

and there was really nobody waiting in

New York to see them and there were

about a hundred punk rock kids there

and nobody liked them. Absolutely nobody

because they didn't dress like punk

rockers. There was probably about six of

us really enjoying the show. Aside from

that, a lot of hardcore kids, no hair on

their heads, standing around with their

arms folded, scowlling like, "Gr,

>> I don't know who booked this. This is

terrible. I want my $5 back. Give me my

$5 back."

>> It seemed like they were a real gang,

like they were a real band. There was

something really going on with these

guys that they were having fun and and

didn't give a [ __ ] And that was also

part of it. But then underneath it, you

could hear that there was some really

catchy songs.

>> This record was made without anybody in

mind, without any audience to cater to,

without any record label to appease.

Um, this was music made purely for the

love of making music.

>> I was more of a babysitter for the

session than I was a producer for the

session. figuring out um you know if if

Bob was going to do his lead guitar. He

was really good after two beers, but he

got really bad after four beers. And

just learning the inner secrecies of

everyone, what worked and what didn't

work in song. And the band at the same

time saw me as kind of the evil

overlord, I think, and uh we're trying

to play games on us and so on. They were

switching around on instruments and so

on, pretending that uh uh I wouldn't

know what was going on and stuff like

that. So, I think Paul and uh maybe

Tommy and and Peter Jeffersonson were up

in the DJ booth with me and they were

hanging out there after the gig started

and I was just playing records for the

punks

and Peter handed me a test pressing of

Hoot Nanny which hadn't been released

yet and said, "Here, you know, since

you're you're into the band and you like

our first two records, here have a copy

of this." I was like, "Wow,

unbelievable. Great." You know, hey, do

you mind if I play a track from this?

this is one of my favorite new bands and

it would be great to to hear it here in

this massive sound system. And Peter

said, "Sure, sure. We'd love it." And I

said, "Well, I haven't heard it. What

song should I play?" And uh I think Paul

said, "Well, you can't go wrong with the

first song." I thought like, "Well, of

course you can't go wrong with the first

song. I mean, it could be like Kids

Don't Follow, right? You know, this is

obviously going to be this massive slam

bang great song. And I put it on and of

course it was Hoot Nanny.

And I keep thinking, well, this is just

the intro, right? I mean, this this is

going to get better, right? And the kids

started booing. And I kind of kept

glancing over and like, does this get

started at some point? And they're just

kind of giggling

and the kids are booing louder. I'm

like, "Guys, I think I got to take this

off." That was the first record really

to re represent all of their sides, even

the sides that didn't show up live, like

you know, Paul by himself.

>> Favorite song change changes daily. If I

had to go back to one, I keep going back

to Heyday on Hoot Nanny and it's because

here's Bob.

I that song in two minutes is everything

that's great about the replacement. It's

it's it's it's one one and a half great

riffs hammered home with reckless

abandon at a speed that is faster than

it probably should be played at. I love

that. I I I I love that song. Love that

song.

>> I think it's the mix. I think it's the

whole album, you know? It's that they're

playful. They do an instrumental, then

they do something with a drum machine,

then they this drunken cowboy song in

the end.

>> Yes, I would go along with every grade.

Although uh casual listening to Hoot

Nanny suggests that maybe it could be

better than a B+.

Um yeah, I I mean

yes, that's a a real possibility.

>> It was like a club a little bit, you

know, and Peter was like the club

president. I think it's, you know,

certain that that all of the

replacements

certainly and and probably most of all

Paul and Tommy got a musical education

through Peter.

>> And in Peter's case, I think he hit a

happy happy balance of the illusion of

the band controlling themselves while at

the same time being the hipster or

whatever that they would take his

suggestions to heart and make them their

own. Peter at his best could only give

advice and tell them what he liked and

didn't like and play records for them

that he liked to influence to get

influences in and stuff. Show Paul,

well, I like this because of this and I

like this because of this and just

hopefully it would absorb. Peter was a

master teacher more than anything else.

And as long as the students were willing

to take his class, it worked out. In the

case of the replacements, they were a

very good class for Peter. revelations

about the replacements for me were

Paul's influences. He admitted that he

liked Roger Miller.

I says, "What is it?" It's the word

play. And he goes, "Yeah."

>> I remember a night at his house um

listening to Every Picture Tells a Story

by Rod Stewart and we were just all

going insane saying it was the greatest

record ever.

>> Yeah. I went over to his place and all

he was listening to was Miles Davis. And

I don't mean just like kind of blue. I

mean like [ __ ] Brew. Lots of T-Rex,

of course, some Robin Hitchcock. I was

exposed to Robin Hitchcock. I often

dream of trains was played incessantly.

>> Tommy liked a lot of just, you know, top

40ish kind of syrupy pop. He had the

most pop sensibility of anybody in in

the band.

>> I talked to Bob probably the most of all

of them because he was really friendly.

He was into a lot of classic rock stuff

and a lot of like sort of roots of punk

kind of stuff. You could talk to him

forever about sort of, you know, Stooges

or like, you know, Dead Boys or

something, but you could also talk to

him forever about like Yes. or something

or like sort of like Gentle Giant or

just like crazy Prague Rock stuff. It's

like, you know, there was like that that

element of it, too, which was like kind

of like, wow, dude, you're like punk

rock icon. You're telling me about Yes.

It's like, are you kidding, Steve? How's

your favorite guitar player? But what's

cooler than that? How can you be more

punk rock than than like being in this

super punk rock band and your favorite

guitarist is Steve How?

>> He he definitely did not like, you know,

what he called fluffy doodle music, you

know. Um, god forbid you, you know, Mr.

Mister would come on while we were

playing pinball or something, you know,

he he'd have to leave the bar. There's

certain music that that he just wouldn't

allow his ears to,

you know, take in.

>> None of them were alterno kids. None of

them were, you know, listened to Black

Flag and and crap like that. In fact,

frankly, they didn't have much use for

that stuff that, you know, they didn't

have any interest in the political side

of rock and roll.

>> You know, they were a rock band. And,

you know, in reality, they could have

existed 20 years before or 20 years

after.

>> It was one of those sloppy shows, you

know, chaotic, the early hardcore mess,

but at the end of the show, u Westerberg

did something that I will never forget.

It was one of the coolest things I've

ever seen. a uh a rock star, which to me

he was even then, playing to 150 people.

Um there was a serious mohawk

contingent.

>> Me and my friends, I guess we were all

about 13 or 14 at the time, same age as

as Tommy, and and we were yelling stuff

out. We had heard they did covers or we

were just heckling them. We were really

into hardcore then

>> and uh they were shouting out throughout

the whole show whenever they could get a

word in edgewise.

>> They were yelling out, you know, songs

like Ace of Spades. At the end of the

show, they were done and uh Paul decided

he wasn't. So even though Chris and Bob

and Tommy had left the stage, Westerberg

called up these obnoxious mohawk leather

jacketw wearing punk rockers and he Paul

was like, "Yeah, you think you could do

better? Come up here."

>> And he went behind Chris's drums and

then proceeded to play Louisie for

another half hour. And I thought, you

know, the replacements, what a statement

Westerberg is saying, you know, punk

rock means anybody can do it. I think

the Replacements are actually

a very

ambitious band and no one ever I know no

one ever really talks about them like

that. You you look at their their albums

and and and the production values and

how they conducted themselves on stage

or or in an interview and and it it

seems like they took a lack of ambition

to almost like like existentialist

heights or something. You know, they're

the most unambitious band in the in in

the history of mankind. And yet, in

their their best stuff, it seems like

Westber's trying to give you something.

Their songs are trying to give you

permission,

you know, permission to be yourself.

Yeah, the songs aren't financially

ambitious or academically ambitious,

but I think they're they're personally

ambitious. They're emotionally

ambitious. There's something about them

that I actually think is strangely

encouraging and I think their their best

songs have this kind of

risk. There was a show at the Upper Deck

downtown Minneapolis where their

placements often played. It was

memorable because it was the first time

they'd ever played I Will Dare.

uh you know which in a way that was the

song more than any other song that

launched them into some other

level. It's just kind of some like some

sort of lightning bolt coming out from

the sky. And I think Peter was probably

standing at the soundboard cuz he off

usually did. And I was standing over I

think to the left of the stage and the

very memorable you know beginning riffs

of I will dare came on and Peter looked

over at me and I looked over at Peter

and we was just

what

top to bottom it's it's great. It covers

so many musical genres. I I would

literally compare it to something like

London Calling where you you know you

you look at a song like 16 blue compare

it to androgynous. Compare it to

Answering Machine, which I think has no

genre. It's it's its own genre, right?

You know, I it's, you know, and then,

you know, for for for those of us who go

back a little bit longer with them,

you've still got Gary's Got a Boner and

you still got Tommy get Tommy gets his

tonsils out. You know, FA Favorite Thing

might be my favorite song off there. I

mean, there I just rattle off the names

of these songs. I mean, that that album

is welln perfect. It was like this huge

leap forward in terms of of the sound,

the songs, the fact that the

Replacements were covering Kiss, you

know, that was a complete mind [ __ ] as a

as a as an irony, you know, because,

>> you know, the world of The Replacements

was the world of like hipper than now

indie rock and Kiss was exactly the

antithesis of that. And so the fact that

the replacements deemed themselves so

either not cool or so cool that they

could cover Kiss without any fear of

embarrassment. You know, I thought that

was amazing. And you know, that album

started to make the meld of kind of real

ferocious power and real heartfelt

sentimentality and, you know,

vulnerability and emotional resonance.

that that as a you know as a grown-up

which I was at the time was much more

potent than you know either even than

just screaming in your face.

>> If there wasn't a song like Tommy Got

his tonsils out you know you wouldn't

think Answering Machine was as great as

it was because you needed that parallel

and that contrast to to see how great

they were and you needed the shows where

they fell over on stage because or else

you know you wouldn't have known that

they were the greatest band maybe to

ever exist. The other records are really

good, but Let It Be is just something

else. It never stops. The songwriting is

amazing. I don't think that there's a

single subpar song on the entire record.

It's only 34 minutes long.

>> My favorite replacement song is I will

dare.

>> I will dare. I will dare.

>> It's almost shameful to say I Will Dare,

but it's so obviously a brilliant song.

>> Gary's got a boner.

>> Tommy gets his tonsils out.

>> I still think Unsatisfied is probably my

my favorite song

>> because

it's such a monster. I think it's if I

was Paul Westerberg and I had written

that song, I would not have known what

to do with it because it would have been

like, "Oh, I'm blasphemy here. Sam Cook

writing a change is gonna come." When he

finished it, he had to know. He had to

know that what he had written.

>> I can't listen that song without

balling.

>> It's about America. It's about having

everything and yet not being happy with

it or not being able to take it or make

it your own or be part of it. I mean,

and they were a band for people who

didn't feel part of things.

>> That was almost me to my parents, you

know, like or to the world, to anybody

that I knew. Like, are you serious?

You're satisfied with this? Like, this

just nothing happening to you? You know,

getting caught up in the in the cycle of

the middle.

>> It's a song that is uh,

you know, oddly comforting

yet about

being unable to be comforted. And when

when Paul is uh shrieking and when you

know that when that vocal's cutting

through a really nice melody, that's

what the replacements are to me. It's

that combination of the rage and the

comfort.

>> It's pretty much the uh apocalypse now

of of vocal performances

[Music]

>> and just the audacity. I mean, people

go, why did why' they name it that? And

because I remember Jesperson was just,

you can't name a record that why not,

you know? I mean, that kind of shows you

where they were at. I mean, they weren't

really a punk band, which people that

don't know them, I think, have kind of

confused that, but that was a pretty

punky thing to do. You know,

>> the picture of them on the roof like

this.

>> I stared at that picture like I was a

16-year-old kid again looking at a, you

know, Beatles album covers and, you

know, it's just like

>> I had done that, man. We climbed out the

window on the roofs and drank lukewarm

beer and

talked about what we were going to do.

You can hear that this is a band that

with a little more polish would become

something commercial and that they

hadn't polished it. And I that's just

that cutting edge and it's probably the

edge a band is on and they can't stay on

that edge. Once you do that record, you

have to go one way or the other.

>> They never made a good album to me after

Let It Be. And I and I think, you know,

my

theories about that are it has

everything to do with business and has

everything to do with what effect their

modest level of success had on Paul's

brain.

>> And um this is 1984

from October. Um

he's well he starts the letter off by

saying, "Dear Simisha, don't drop over

in disbelief, but it's me. I've gotten

your swell letters and neato cards and

have enjoyed the piss out of them. If I

said I was too busy to write, that would

be true. I was a little afraid to drop

you a line. Why? And I'm not going to

tell you that bit. Um, but then he goes,

"Now, now that that's out of the way,

hi, we've been on tour for two months.

We are coming to make a stand in the

West. First leg of our spree of crime

will be Friday, October the 26th at the

Club Lingerie. From there, who knows?

But I'm looking forward to seeing you.

You'll know me. I'll be the one that

smells like a rhino. Paul,

I remember um the the Stinson boys were

at the bar and my buddy I I didn't want

to bother him.

Uh

my buddy uh Bro went over and was buying

him some playing them with alcohol

and talking music and whatever. And and

I could I I was beginning to like wonder

how can they how can they play?

How can they walk, let alone play a

musical instrument? They were pretty

pretty drunk. and uh and and the show

was supposed to start at whatever time

and it was an hour and a half later and

it hadn't started and now the crowd's

pretty drunk and

it packed and hot. It was in a the

grotto was in a basement aptly named and

uh then they came out and u they were

wasted.

And it was weird because

you know that was the that was the time

and and

I I never mentioned it cuz it the fight

broke out on stage. They were arguing

and you could tell Bobby was having a

real hard time and and Paul was getting

really pissed at him and screaming in

the middle of the songs and then he

started, you know, kicking

and it escalated and escalated and then

it got to u they they they had a fight

and I remember too because it ended like

a Mike Tyson fight

There they go. Well, you know, they're

gonna go rec, you know, have it out and

they No, it was over. And my friends

going, "That's rock and roll. That's

rock and roll." And I didn't voice this.

I never vocalized, but I thought, "No,

it's sad.

They're great. They're too good to be

that drunk." And I remember Chris Mars

vividly,

vividly as the

nonsense was going on. I remember him

not

being you could tell,

okay, here, you know,

>> one of these nights, you know,

okay, it's I remember, you know, the

fight starts and they're pushing each

other and the amplifiers are being

knocked over and stuff's happening and I

remember him putting his sticks down and

the dressing room was just off the uh

stage, right? And there he went.

He was the quiet one who was thoughtful

and um kind of knew what was going on.

You didn't have to explain things to

him. You told him what you wanted done,

he knew why while the others would

argue.

>> Chris Myers was a really really great

drummer. I think he's like kind of

underrated as that.

>> And he was just such a normal quiet guy.

>> Quiet and humble and unbelievable

artist.

>> He might have been a better uh sketching

artist than he was a drummer. Forgive

me, Chris. Chris Chris Mars that we used

to hang out when we would all hang out,

they were like, "Well, is Chris around?"

Chris would apparently like report back

to everybody in Minnesota. So, everyone

called him Topaz. Like, he was like the

spy and they that would be our big joke

of the night, like, "Oh, wait. Is Chris

around?" Sh like, "Yeah, we drink too

much whatever. It's going to get

reported right back to every everybody

in Minneapolis, so we have to be

careful."

>> Well, he was he was the obviously the

least intoxicated. Maybe maybe I don't I

don't know. Or the or the most capable

of playing well drunk.

[Music]

>> The Village Voice was kind of the

beacon. They set the the tone for for

music journalism coverage with, you

know, Bob Kriscow.

>> He'd discovered The Replacements and and

and loved it and and actually just

called to say how much he loved it,

which you know, it's like, whoa,

here we go. I

>> I remember being angry. I remember being

with my core of fzine writers at CBGB

and all of a sudden Chris Gow's at the

show and John Pella is from New York

Times is at the show and the guys from

Musician Magazine, Bill Flanigan's at

the show and you're like [ __ ] you guys,

man. Where were you when with Hoot and

Annie, you know, now let it be and

you're on the train.

>> Well, then I got a call from R.J. Smith.

He called me up one day and said, you

know, I'd like to go on the road with

the replacements.

And we were just, okay, you sure you

want to do that? Um, and uh,

>> yeah, I definitely remember him saying,

"Are you sure you want to do this? Do

you know what you're getting into?" And

you know, I mean, you can sort of guess

from the music, but really I didn't. I

had no idea what I was getting into. I

mean, there's a lot of dispute about

that since the article came out where

people have said, well, they've said in

other in later interviews that uh, they

really didn't drink before shows. They

weren't the kind of drinkers that I

depicted them as.

I quoted them. I held up a mirror to

them and um I know I was the first

person to really do that

>> and I think that kind of surprised them

what they saw in the mirror. Maybe

>> the replacements were not well known

when the Village Voice put them on the

cover. Uh you know they toured at that

point almost none.

Uh you know it was for the Village Voice

to do that would it was just unheard of

at the time. certainly rocked our world.

You know, there at at Twin Tone, we'd

never had a band that had that kind of

attention.

>> No one touched them in terms of

gulessness, in terms of openness, in

terms of for reporter access because

they didn't know any better and because

they were such wonderful human beings.

And for a band that's so

self-destructive and so in many ways

lacking in confidence in terms of not

wanting to make it easy for you to see

who they really were. There was an

incredible confidence in Westerberg and

never ever I don't think saying

that's off the record you know or

Jesperson coming in and saying okay guys

ever. I mean they may have regretted it.

You're driving into town and they're on

the cover of the Village Voice. I mean,

Peter and I were kind of excited. The

guys in the band were like, you know,

where are we staying tonight? Where are

we gonna get some booze? I mean, you

know, it was meaningless to them.

>> It also was the poor selling issue of

The Voice that year.

>> Wow.

>> Would it have happened with Annis?

Probably. They're pretty good.

>> You know,

>> you could go see them on one night and

they'd be blindingly brilliant, close to

a religious experience. You could go see

them on another night and they could

just be complete dog [ __ ] And they

played at CBGBs as Gary and the Boners.

I think the cover charge was maybe five

bucks. Place was packed. You could tell

right away it was going to be, you know,

one of those shows. After about a half

hour into it where could we could kind

of see where it was going and it's like,

"Hey, want to go get some pizza?" You

know, I tell people that now they're

like, "You left that show?" You know,

and it got so bad. I heard tapes of it

later and the band would start up a song

and Paul would purposely sing different

lyrics to a different song, you know,

and it's like we'd seen him do that.

It's like been there, done that, you

know, and but the people in New York

were, you know, they talk about it to

this day like it's, you know, one of the

most amazing gigs ever. And for us,

we're like ah just another kind of

crappy replacement.

>> But you'd hear stories, too. That was

the point you'd run into guys at college

or in in your travels where people would

say, uh,

I saw them in St. Louis,

you know, and a fight broke out or

whatever, you know, or they were great

or they were awful or whatever, but

you'd always be, "What happened? What

happened at the replacement show? What

what's they what they open with? What

they, you know, what they cover? They

get on stage and they ask for what to be

played and somebody always yells out

customer or [ __ ] school and and it's

like

yeah maybe but you know if you threw out

something crazy that you know clam bake

or who knows what it might be and they

they it sparks something in one of them

and they just start doing it and they

all fall in together and they kind of

pick it up and they play, you know, the

first verse and the first chorus and

then it falls apart. That to me is what

rock and roll is and that to me is where

the magic occurred with that band. It

wasn't the fact that they could put

together great songs. They could do

that, but lots of bands can do that.

>> It's very difficult for a band to be

willing to fall flat in their face and

get up and do it again and again and

again. That right there is what makes me

go, "These guys are great."

I mean, they were a great cover band in

a way that very few other bands,

contemporaneous bands were

really none.

>> See, I match pharmacological states with

them a lot of times. So, I think there

was a white Christmas cover.

>> Misty Mountain Ha, The Boys Are Back in

Town,

>> Jailbreak, Pitching Ride,

>> Battleship Chains by the Georgia

Satellites,

>> Hello Dolly, comes to mind.

>> Heartbeat is a love beat. It's the T-Rex

20th Century Boy.

>> My favorite ones they used to do was

Substitute.

>> There there's been about 20 bands who

did Another Girl, Another Planet, and no

one did it as well as the Replacements.

>> Prince Cut. They could never take the

place of your man.

>> They were really going through a radar

love phase.

>> Typically, they would get through a

verse, chorus, verse, chorus. They'd get

to the bridge and it would all just

collapse and fall apart. And then they'd

laugh it off, start up another song.

Every time they [ __ ] something up, they

would play Help Me Rhonda and then just

like play a bar of it and then move on

to the next song. And if that song fell

apart, was right back into Help Me

Rhonda.

>> Oh my god, that's great.

>> They must have played that nine times

over the course of the night.

>> The Replacements, they were just a band

that was about whatever song they were

playing.

>> You go back and they synthesize so much

of of of what was great about rock and

roll. And you go back to the [ __ ] hits

the fans and then they're they're doing

like uh like civil war era, you know,

like folk songs, right? You know, no

more the moon shines on Lorino or

whatever. I don't even know where that

comes from.

>> The [ __ ] hits the fans is one of the

greatest album titles in history.

>> We're playing a place that is pretty

much wound down. spring break is either

occurring or it's right around when

there's nobody in this particular

college town and this particular

location happens to have nobody visiting

it. So there's very very few people in

the audience and if you listen to the

tape you can hear Paul ask for the

people to move closer. They don't got to

but he really wants it to be more

intimate because they really enjoyed

that wall of people in front of them.

They're sweating the the audience

sweating. They they really preferred

that.

Anyway, I'm mixing the show and this

particular location is a big square room

and has a balcony above me. And I decide

that I'm going to walk around and listen

to the show and see what I hear. And I

walk up and you know, anytime a show is

being recorded, you know, the objective

is to stop that from occurring.

Bootlegging is not acceptable. We're

taking that. And I happen to confiscate

this tape from this guy. You know, where

it ends is where it ends beautifully.

and we listen to it on the way home. And

while we're listening to it, Chris

is starts to draw a drawing that he it

turns into the cover art for uh for the

the tape, the cassette. And we get back

to Minneapolis and I've got this

cassette. We I give it to Steve

Felstead. He masters it over to onto

some bigger tape. And then from there, I

get the cassette back and when I get it

back, it's being listened to by Paul and

gets a little actual eraser in it. And

it's uh it's a story where I'm I mean,

my part is pretty insignificant. I mean,

all honesty, it's I I happen to pick up

a cassette from somebody who was making

a tape of a show and it happens to sound

really good.

You know, that just it just it just

happened.

And when when Bill gave me a copy of

when the [ __ ] hits the fan, I said, "You

recorded this, didn't you? You saved

this for posterity." I hope you know

this is going to probably eclipse their

entire catalog as what people will talk

about when they say, "Oh, you saw The

Replacements? God, I wish I saw The

Replacements."

I would like I would like to remember

them instead by the good dozen shows I

saw where they were just blowing people

away.

>> That held a picture up to them, too, of

who they were. and they they heard it

and they liked it and they put it out

because they said, "Yeah, that's us."

>> You know, one person's entertainment is

another person's, you know, somebody

making a fool of themselves. And,

you know, they

they weren't afraid to, you know,

challenge that border

>> for no reason other than we couldn't get

to the facility in time or we just

didn't want to take the time to do a

sound check. sound checks were not done.

But at the same time, it was really kind

of like, you know, we don't need to do a

sound check. We know what we're going to

do. And it's like, you know what? I'm

fine with that.

>> If this first, if you don't care about

the first song coming off with a with

vocals, I'm cool.

>> Every gig that we played, get there, you

know, get it all set up, try my

damnedest to tweak it and get it to

sound right. It didn't matter because as

soon as they got there, it's, you know,

they were balls to the wall. That whole

11 thing,

>> you know, it's performance art. You get

in there, swim, throw you off the boat

in the middle of the lake, swim to

shore, you'll figure it out. If you

don't, you'll drown.

>> For both those tours, I think every

night.

I got fired from the stage. Paul would

go, "You're fired." You know, cuz they

they couldn't hear, you know, they were

so freaking loud that Paul couldn't hear

his voice. And that's always a problem

for singers. After that happened, every

night Bob would come up and put his arm

around me and go, "It's going to be all

right. Everything's going to be all

right."

>> At that point, I had uh you know, Clash

Records and Ramones and and uh you know,

all the college radio top 20 types of of

soundtracks going on. And I'd never

heard of The Replacements.

Tom came over and was like, "Hey,

Carlen, there's this guy at the bar that

really wants to meet you." Uh, I went

over and there was Bob sitting in a

booth by himself under the port hole at

the uptown in the in the back booth. He

he, you know, he was really sweet. He

just started asking me like where I grew

up, what I did for a living, and he told

me that he was a pizza cook. And so

that's all I knew about Bob. We we dated

uh for like three weeks. We'd go to the

matineese, we'd go fishing,

um we'd walk around the lakes, and then

uh I don't know, he called me at work

and he says, "Uh,

my band's playing um at First Avenue and

I'd really like you to come. I'm going

to put you on the guest list." And I

said, "Well, you mean at Seventh Street

Entry? you know, no one plays the main

room unless they're like huge. And he

goes, "Just just be there, you know,

just just show up with your ID and and

you'll get in for free." And uh drove

down to First Avenue and as I got up

there, I saw all the doors had sold out

show. So I I opened the the the the

doors, handed my ID to the gal, and sure

enough, I was on the guest list. At

which point I got inside and and and I

look up at the stage and there's my Bob,

my my there's my pizza chef on stage to

this soldout crowd and I'm like, "Wow,

what is going on?" And uh when I walked

in, he swung his guitar behind his back

and he motions like this for the crowd

to to like separate and then he's like

doing this. He's like pointing at me and

then come and you know come come come

come come come come come come come come

come come come come come come come come

come come come come come come come come

come come come come come come come come

come come come come come come come come

and the crowd to do this you know sure

enough the crowd just like opens up. I

walk like you know in the Charlton H

movie when the Red Sea opens. He

insisted from that point on um every

show that I that I saw them play that I

stand in front of him so that it was

personal. He he played to me.

>> The venue was this giant crazy

warehouse. I think at one point it was a

supermarket warehouse for food.

>> So there was a lot of people there.

Almost almost a soldout show and a $10

ticket. Unheard of at the time.

>> The bartender in the back bar was John

Stewart of the Daily Show. I used to

call him Back Bar John.

>> So I went to the back of the hall,

grabbed a beer, realized I didn't know

anybody there, so I figured I'd go over

to the pinball machine and kill a little

time before the replacements came on. um

threw a quarter in the machine and this

scruffy dude came up to me almost

instantly. As soon as the quarter left

my hand, he came up and said, "Hey man,

can you spot me a quarter for a game?"

>> So replacements came up. They went on

late cuz they couldn't find Bob.

>> About the third ball out of five, the

lights go down, which is the signal that

the band's coming on. So I said to the

guy, "Hey man, thanks. Thanks for the

game. I'm going to go watch the band."

And he turned to me and grabbed me by

the arm while he's playing and said,

"No, man. You got to stay. We got to

finish this. we started this game. We

got to finish this game. As I'm looking

up at the stage, I I recognize that

there's it's a trio and I don't recall

them and and my brother telling me about

the band that they were a trio. But

anyway, I'm still playing with this

crazy guy and he's rocking it. A second

song goes by and all of a sudden people

are you can hear people talking in the

crowd like there's sort of a mumble

going on. And I also noticed that people

around the room are looking at us,

looking at me and this weird looking

guy, disheveled hair, playing pinball.

Finally, this guy's final ball drains

right down the middle. And uh without

missing a beat, as soon as the ball

fell, he just turned to me and in one

fell swoop said, "Thanks, man. See you

later." And off he went, he walked right

through the middle of the crowd. Um

walked to the right side of the stage

and tried to get up on the stage. And I

saw Westerberg come flying over to the

side of the stage and actually kick up

his his foot and push him back off the

stage. And this guy I was playing

pinball with tried that two or three

times. And each time Westerberg, I think

once he clocked him in the in the

forehead, once in the shoulder and

finally Westerberg came up and went to

the other side of the the stage to

finish the song and the guy I was

playing pinball with jumped up on stage,

grabbed a guitar and played like the

final three chords of that third song.

That's when I realized I was playing

playing pinball with the guitar player

from the replacement.

>> They didn't really do many of their

songs that went into one of those shows

that I guess they've been known to do.

>> It was a totally straight show and

everybody walked out feeling personally

betrayed.

>> People were booing. I mean, people were

pissed off. They played the whole all

the songs from start to finish.

>> I like the show. I'll tell you why.

Because yes, it was on the verge of

absolute chaos and collapse. People were

just disappointed. I think there were a

lot of people at that show that were

coming expecting to see the circus and

they didn't get the circus.

>> People started calling the college radio

station. I was at replacement show

tonight. They really sucked. And of

course, I called on the phone like an

idiot.

>> I think he reacted emotionally to what

happened there. I know he loved the band

>> and I started saying things like, "Yeah,

they were [ __ ] Yeah, they were

jerks and they really, you know, they

sucked and you know, I'm sorry if you

spent $10 uh for that garbage." I was

talking like an [ __ ] What happened

was though, they were in their van going

to their hotel and they were listening

to me as the promoter say all these

things over the radio. I I hear there's

a song written about that whole uh that

shooting dirty pool is is supposedly I

heard it's about me. I know it says rock

and roll loudmouth in there. Right

around that time is when I started to

maybe lose my affinity for the the

replacement's culture and the fans and

stuff like that because it started to

remind me

of the people who cheered while they

threw Christians to the Lions.

>> I know it was announced on a Warner

Brothers conference call that we had

signed the replacements. There was a lot

of whooping and hollering. The people I

worked with back in the day, they were

pretty musically astute. So, I think

there's a lot of excitement from the

field staff, you know, to have the band

on the roster.

>> Mike Hill, the ANR person at Warner

Brothers, uh, you know, called me up and

asked me if I would be interested in um,

working with the band, and I said very

much so. I set to work immediately to,

uh, bring them into a more professional

kind of, uh, attitude. They got my style

pretty quickly that we were going to

work, that we weren't going to party.

>> I mean, even though the replacements

were very dysfunctional and very, you

know, messed up, the they were they were

much more sane than the Ramones were.

>> When we were making the record, I was

very much concerned because at the time,

um, there was a fad of making the drums

sound very loud and very echoey. And I I

purposely wanted to avoid anything like

that. because I didn't want the record

to ever sound dated.

>> When that came out, I remember thinking

like, hey, it's got a terrible cover.

Uh, and I was put off by the artwork

immediately. Was on a major label, so I

was put off by that immediately. And the

production to me is just not

I mean, I'm used to it now. I don't

really think about it, you know what I

mean? But

>> but at the time, I just remember

thinking like, what are they, you know,

what are they doing? This doesn't sound

like them. Sounds like a major label

record. Maybe it was around that Tim

album that they sort of in my eyes

anyways kind of stopped being the band

from the basement, you know, and started

being a real band. And to me, those

records are a lot less interesting.

>> I think Paul very much wanted to not

make a punk record.

And as a matter of fact, I think he he

willfully always kept turning the

amplifiers down, I think, which might

have frustrated Tommy, who was very much

wanted to turn the amps all the way up.

You know what we did with Bob

was we got him to show up and while we

had him there, we just

turned the tape machine on and recorded

him doing solo after solo after solo.

Bob was brilliant. I mean, he was a

brilliant guy. Um, I think he was kind

of against a major label situation. To

him, rock and true rock and roll was the

entry playing to the entry holds 187

[ __ ] people. That's what he liked

where you can touch people,

be right there, share drinks, and it's

hot, sweaty, dark, rock and roll. He

wanted to stay in the entry forever.

>> You know, it's great to have Bob be Bob

and play the way Bob does. No one no one

ever could play like him.

when you're writing now once you're

starting to write songs like Kiss Me on

the Bus, there's not a lot of room for

him in that uh

>> in that uh backdrop.

>> I played this solo to Kiss Me on the Bus

>> because I think

Bob himself was never really happy with

the way he sounded on that because I

think they did a lot of pasting and

messing with his solos that that made

them sound more kind of crunched. I took

the opportunity while I had the chance

of just go. We went from song to song.

He laid down all these solos and

everything and then he was gone.

>> How many days do you think he was

actually there?

>> One.

>> Everything that you like about every

modern band that you like right now you

can find in a record called Tim. The

most impressive thing is that the songs

really do shine through this kind of

terrible sheen of bad 80s production.

>> You know, Bastards of Young, come on.

Like, that's an anthem. If ever there

was an anthem, Bastards of Young is that

anthem, you know, being misfits, not

fitting in, but then not being a misfit

because there's so many other misfits.

You know, it's like we'll all band

together and we'll be the family we

never were or never had. Not that I

suspected, you know, somebody like Paul

would, you know, watch prime time

television uh sit sitcoms, but I I was

thinking

here comes a regular, you know, might uh

might have somehow I know it was about

very specific uh club in Minneapolis

with his buddies. Uh but uh I thought

like the line here comes the regular

call out his name. Um I I told them that

might have been subliminally uh you know

uh sort of

uh from Cheers, you know, from Norm

>> because a lot of our punk upbringing was

all about obviously fighting against the

establishment and what we brought been

brought up to be and to me a regular was

kind of especially in the old British

sense of the word was kind of you know a

permanent fixture literally a permanent

fixture of a place that's a drinking

hole. you heard that song and you knew

it was, you know, you could see the CC

at 11 in the morning. You know, I I I

quit drinking myself about 25 years ago.

So, I I seldom go in there anymore. Um,

but I would say that uh when you heard

that song, it reminded me of when

personally I was in the throws of

alcoholism and uh you know, you would go

in there at 11:00 and how depressing it

was. You know, there'd be Yeah. There'd

be guys that went in there that uh every

day, you know, to get their opening

shot, you know, their shots to wake up

and and uh uh

just the sort of uh camaraderie that

evolves around alcohol and how false uh

not not false uh what's the word I'm

looking for? It's uh it's sad in my

opinion.

I don't work on that many records. So,

it was really gratifying, you know. Um,

you know, when the record came out, it

was voted uh at the time the second best

record of the year to me. Every song is

very different. Every song is uh like a

jewel.

>> At the same time, you know, it was

really fascinating to see, you know, why

did they name that record Tim?

[Music]

I essentially end up on the ground

asleep at the mic. You know, not enough

sleep night before, maybe drinking.

Um, but at any rate, I'm I'm a heap on

the floor with the mic in my hand and

the band continues to play and the

singers passed out on the floor and

everybody leaves and the band just kept

playing. They played the whole set and

the basement clears out. It had been

full. People were down there to see DKB

play and

only two people sat and watched the

whole set and it was Paul Westerberg and

and Tommy Stinson. What was interesting

was um shortly after that hearing that

they had named a record Tim because of

this show that they had seen where the

the singer was passed out on the floor

through the whole set.

>> So you are Tim? I am Tim.

>> It it it just seems like at every turn

the Replacements did shoot themselves in

the foot. And and if you talk about the

video for Bastards of Young, that's a

perfect example. Here they've got this

chance. They could, you know, they could

deliver it and

>> it's not like the band lacked

personality when you saw them live or

plaid pants. They could have definitely

done something visually pretty

interesting and uh instead they they

shoot a speaker for four minutes. They

found the loophole in their contract

that said they didn't have to appear in

their music videos, so they didn't.

>> Kind of brilliant, kind of dumb. Kind of

the replacements.

>> I'm guessing they were all sitting

around drinking and Paul probably made

the suggestion, and I think I've been

told that was the story. Well, we go

just go get the tapes. He kind of was

playing around with the idea once a

record comes out, he would like to have

all the old records disappear. You know,

he'd like to have himself disintegrate

so people wouldn't have the old stuff to

compare with. He only wanted people to

listen to his new record. Then when he

put out the next record, that one would

disappear. He would have loved to the

technology had allowed that. He would

have really liked that. The idea that

Twin Tone had old recordings that maybe

we could put out or something like that.

And as it turns out, they came over and

we had very unsecured things for the

tape library, which is backups. And what

they stole were backups. They didn't

steal anything original.

Hometown Boys Make Good.

>> The whole world in Minneapolis stopped

at that moment because it was like the

Twins in the World Series or whatever.

>> And um and they were so great.

>> I was at I was at the biggest dance club

in town, the First Avenue thing, and

they stopped they stopped everything and

put them up on the big screen for just

the performance and then we'll cut right

back out. So, you didn't see any of

Saturday Night Live except here's the

replacements. And I think I saw them on

Saturday Night Live doing Bastards uh

Bastards of Young and just thought this

just immediately thought, "Wow, this is

this is the best rock and roll band I've

seen in a long long time." You know,

everything about them, the look of them,

you know, that they were just there was

no like there was no look. You know,

they just looked like a bunch of guys

hanging out, you know, in a local bar.

when they played on Night Live. I was I

was in college and I was home for some

reason at my parents house and uh I

remember my mom saying, "Oh, this band

is terrible. Your band is better than

that." And I and and I said, "No, we're

not. This is the most important band in

the world." And uh I think I stormed off

and like wrote my mom this like angry

letter

about why or and and then I and I closed

with you know the lyrics to Bastards of

Young which is kind of a harsh thing for

a kid to do to their uh to their parents

all because she didn't uh understand

their beauty and wisdom on that silent

live performance. The studios had given

um I think a dozen grocery bags filled

with summary sandwiches, brownies,

fruit. By the time the show was over,

they had pretty much dismantled those 12

bags of food and had, you know, flushed

the submarine sandwiches down the toilet

and smeared the brownies all over the

walls and smashed the bananas into the

couch and the carpets and ceilings and

lamps. And

>> the fact that they destroyed a Saturday

Night Live dressing room to the point

where it had to be rebuilt makes them my

favorite band even more. That's what you

want your rock bands to do.

>> And they they got banned and um which is

better than just not being asked back.

It is almost impossible to get banned

from there. I mean, I' I've posted three

times, so that says I mean that says it

all right there.

What I love is that this is a band that

was kicked off Saturday Night Live.

Saturday Night Live was the home to drug

addicts and drunks. And I mean, think

about it. It was built with these guys

that were the rock stars of comedians

that were out of control and excessive.

If you're a band that gets kicked off of

Saturday Night Live or banned from

Saturday Night Live, you've done some

things. And for my money, you've done

them right. And so when I hosted it

later on, uh I remember one of the times

Tupac Shakur was my musical guest and

you know it was a time when Snoop Dogg

was on trial for murder and they're

waiting to see if Snoop could fly out

and sing with him that Saturday night

and Suge Knight was there and all a

bunch of badasses and they were telling

all these stories. You know, everybody

was scared. And I said, uh, you know, I

had a friend here once that played on

here and he took a [ __ ] in a ice bucket

and sent it down to the first floor

where the tour comes up. And they were

suddenly like these gangbangers were

scared shitless that that was something

that Bobby Stinson had done allegedly.

And uh I mean it was so so funny cuz up

until that point they were just super

tough and then they hear that story

they're like oh my god that is [ __ ]

white boy [ __ ] gangster right there.

We wouldn't even consider that that's

insane.

>> [ __ ] art. You would have kicked Bob

Stinson out of your band too.

>> Oh no. I No. I think if you're in a band

with Iggy Pop, you know, you realize,

yeah, this is hell to live with, but

this is brilliant. And it's not going to

be brilliant without Iggy Pop. All of a

sudden, there was somebody that was too

[ __ ] up to be in the replacements,

>> thinking that Bob wasn't good enough. I

was

pissed off when they did that. Um, you

know, and it was and it was so

symptomatic of them going downhill to me

that they needed a better guitar player.

You're not the replacements without Bob

Stinson. I don't care how often he gets

drunk.

>> Not knowing what he's going to do, not

knowing how drunk he was going to be or

act drunk. I I'm convinced half the time

he acted drunk more than he was.

>> You know, in so far as there was this

sense of contained chaos about the

replacements, well, that was Stinson's

doing. It was Westerberg containing

Stinson.

>> Without him, I don't think the band

would have made it either in the early

years. I think what the press was

picking up with the misfits image and

all that, Paul Westerberg wasn't a

misfit. He certainly acted out his role

in A Band of Misfits,

but uh no, he Bob was kind of the

instigator on that kind of stuff. And uh

a lot of press was written about the

replacement because of things Bob did.

And I think Bob was very aware of it and

was purposely doing it. It's not

something organically that just came

out. I think there's a lot of thought

behind some of that stuff.

>> By the third time that happened, for

there to be no forethought,

it would require an incredible accident.

Bob was the id of the band.

>> After Bob Stinson, it's like I like Tim

a lot. I thought that was a good record.

And after that, it's just like, well, I

don't I don't really see the point. It

became too much like, you know, like

college rock for me. Like

>> sometimes he'd go somewhere musically

that it's was like Sun Ra or something.

You know, the guitar playing could get

real weird for a few seconds in a in a

way that that still blows my mind. It

was him hitting the wrong notes at the

right time.

>> No punk rockers played those chords.

>> He was a really underrated and brilliant

guitarist.

>> Bob used to pat himself on the back when

he pulled off a good solo, too. That was

one of his things. He'd go, you know,

>> that night they all came over to our

house and for some reason Bob Stinson

stole all this meat out of our freezer.

What the hell did he want frozen steaks

for? What was he going to do? Cook them

in the radiator? I you know it made no

sense but we saw him leaving and he

stuffed all this meat and we were just

like

it's the dude from the placements. What

are you going to do?

>> The thing that I really remember about

Bob was just that gentleness, that

kindness. He didn't really seem like he

belonged in this world.

>> Excuse me. It always makes me sad to

talk about him. Um because I really miss

him.

I know that he wanted the musical

direction to stay loud, hard, and fast.

And um it seemed like uh the more

corporate America got their claws into

the replacements, the the more the band

was turning to what he would consider

fluffy doodle, you know, and he he

really didn't

enjoy fluffy doodle music, you know. He

didn't want to play in a Mr. Mr. Band,

he he wanted the replacements to stay

true to who they were and and I I think

he started to feel like um he was losing

his voice.

>> I think that they're are kind of martyrs

a little bit, self-made martyrs. And

while they attempted to clean up their

act in the end there, I think it's the

evidence suggests that we're all the

better for it that they continued to

shoot themselves in the foot.

>> Seriously disillusioned when the

replacements fired Peter because they

owed Peter everything. He lived the

replacements and and uh really was that

kind of seinal influence to them.

>> You know, if he's in your corner, he's

in your corner. And and uh it seems to

me that they could have grown, you know,

with with him.

>> Would they have lasted? Would they have

gone anywhere? Would they have

succeeded? Would we be sitting here

right now if if Peter wouldn't have

existed? No. Not a chance.

>> It's over. The developing's over. This

thing's done. Put a fork in it. you

know, it's it's industry now.

>> Please to Meet Me in essence tells the

tale of the Replacements right there.

You know, if you just look at that

record cover, it tells the tale. And I

think everyone understood that, you

know, and they were to be that aware of

it, to be that aware of, okay, here we

are. We're this major label rock band.

We've kicked out one of our brothers.

We're g we're getting we're getting

bigger, but are we getting better? And

are we looking in the mirror and looking

at a bunch of schmucks?

>> I'm not sure what about Please to Meet

Me really appealed to me so much. I

think it's such a wonderful set of

songs, you know, like uh

all the other albums had a little bit of

fooling around on them, which is

appealing, but I thought Please to Meet

Me fooled around the least of all their

eight records. Somehow they pulled it

off without Bob. I don't know how. I

think just the songwriting was so good

and I think they were just so inspired

making a record with, you know,

Dickinson.

>> I was really surprised at how great

Please to Meet Me was when it when I

heard it, you know, because I kind of

expected

to not to not love it, you know, like

any band when start changing the lineup,

you just kind of get a feeling of like,

uh, you know,

>> they're not going to be as good.

>> Yeah. But I mean, some of my favorite

songs are on that are on Please to Meet

Me and that's, you know, it's a great

record.

[Music]

>> Please to Meet Me is is is my favorite

replacements record.

>> Please to Me was my favorite album.

Pleased to meet me.

>> Pleased to meet me.

>> It's a raw rock and roll album. You

know, all the Rolling Stones and things

like that.

>> The horns and strings and and and

acoustic guitar. All that stuff was

fleshing out. It wasn't selling out. It

was just like, we're going to try this

because let's try this. Let's try the

saxophone and let's try, you know, uh

the the the the horns doing the riff at

the end of Can't Hardly Wait.

>> I was a big advocate for Karley Wait

with the horns. I don't know. At the

time, I did not know how anybody thought

the replacements were going to go to

Memphis and make a record with Jim

Dickinson and not have horns on it. I

was I was appalled that people did not

had so little knowledge of music history

that that the horns insulted them.

>> I'm one of the people who actually loves

the horns on Can't Hardly Wait, which is

that that wasn't the first song by them

I loved. Color Me Impressed was the

first song, but the one that really made

me know like this is going to be one of

my favorite bands ever was Can't Hardly

Wait.

>> Favorite song is Can't Hardly Wait.

>> Can't Hardly Wait.

>> Can't Hardly Wait.

>> Can't Hardly Wait.

>> Can't Hardly Wait.

>> Can't Hardly Wait is absolutely my

favorite drop deadad replacement song.

>> Seemed like the sky was the limit and

they were going to put out another 10

albums and each one would continue to

evolve. That's what I had hoped and

expected.

[Music]

I think one of the hardest things about

the replacements was that I think they

never knew exactly what their charm was,

but they knew that it had to do with the

fact that they didn't give a [ __ ] and

that they were having fun and it was

about having fun.

>> I think I tried to ask them some

questions and I'm not sure if I got any

any real answers. Well, I noticed that

something was a miss, right?

>> And that they looked really peculiar.

Later on, what I realized, what was so

odd about them is is that for the

occasion, they had all shaved their

eyebrows off

>> and then apparently they painted some on

that were higher than they normally

would have been. So, they all looked

surprised

>> and they would do stuff like this, you

know, and and you know, good good luck

to the casual fans like, "Oo, I want to

like these guys, you know, I like rock

and roll, you know, and you see these

guys with shaved eyebrows." It's like,

no, they gave the casual fan nothing to

latch on to unless they were, you know,

really predisposed. I read a uh um an

article and I can remember exactly the

article. It was a in the September 1987

issue of uh Cream magazine

>> and I bought it because my my favorite

band at the time uh Fleetwood Mac was on

the cover and this is like

Tango in the Night era of Fleetwood Mac.

this tells you how like out of it I was,

you know. Um, and so I bought that and I

was reading through that and I came

across this article in this band called

Replacements. And what struck me was

just how

ugly they were. And that really attract

I mean there it it was surprising you

know um Westber was wearing bright

orange pants and bright green shoes that

he'd drawn like a dollar sign on and his

teeth were all bad. That kind of freaked

me out a little bit. You know I I

thought bands weren't they didn't look

like that. you know, they're supposed to

look like

glass tiger or something like that, you

know. Um,

>> how old were you at that time?

>> I was about 14. And I remember I didn't

I didn't like that. I thought they just

look like a bunch of clowns. And I was

sort of like kind of offended by that,

but curious. And so they were raving

about, you know, pleased to meet me. So,

I I I had my mom like drive me to like

the mall, you know, and and I got like

the cassette tape of it and I brought it

home and I put it on the uh put in my

boom box that, my little J C Penney boom

box I had like on my toy chest and

that was it. It sounds cheesy, but there

was

something that just kind of clicked that

clicked on like I'd been

I'd been like a sleeper and and

something was touched off, you know,

something in in my code, in my DNA,

something went went off like that. Um,

and then that was it. I just started

listening to them

all the time. like all the like every

every day I would come home that from

school and listen to that album and that

was like

that was like my after school activity

for the longest time I thought like

please meet me was like their only album

I didn't know anything about them

because I didn't I couldn't you couldn't

find out about them I was talking about

them in

in my math class my geometry class and

no one in in this my school listened to

replacements nobody nobody did Um, and

my geometry teacher, Mr. Olsen, heard me

and said, "Um, yeah, I like the

replacements, too." He was like the only

person in school was geometry teacher,

you know, and he's this weird guy. And

he made me a tape. It was Tim and and

and the second side was was Let It Be.

Um he left uh Garrett's Got a Boner off

because I maybe soon like my mom found

it he'd get like fired or something like

that which somehow like really made it

like personal

>> you know like I didn't know about that

song till like years later this hidden

track which just wasn't hidden for

anyone but me.

>> I I I lived on this farm and and we were

we were sort of in the middle of of

nowhere.

I I did start

kind of pretending like I knew them a

little bit. Mhm.

>> I started pretending that they were,

you know, kind of friends, but but kind

of like older brothers, you know, and

and I would I would sort of I would talk

to them and and

specifically

Tommy because I think just because he

was he was younger,

>> he was closer to my age and he he looked

cooler and he had the better hair. So,

he was sort of like he he was the big

brother I didn't have. And I I'd kind of

run things

run things by like the Tommy in my mind,

you know, like what would what would how

would he dress and what would he say and

how would he approach this girl or

something like that.

>> I I don't know. I did he just was sort

of sort of with me. I'd kind of walk

around the farm and and it's a farm, you

know, there. I mean, it's like as far

away from the placements as you could

get, but I could sort of

>> see him there. I mean, I mean, knew I

knew it wasn't real, but but I I can

honestly say I spent more time with them

than anyone else growing up. I spent

more time listening Please Meet Me than

talking to any friend I ever had.

>> I was listening to Tim and Let It Be

like every day because I would come home

from high school and hate myself, but

then listen to the music and it just um

really spoke to me. So, it's kind of um

um helped me become who I am.

>> So, yeah.

>> What was it specifically about it?

>> It's the lyrics. It's his his um whole

perception of um it's okay to not be uh

perfect. It's okay to be the loser and

it's okay to just to be yourself and it

doesn't matter and who gives a [ __ ] So,

you know, that's kind of built my

personality and my character from there

is uh just learning to believe in

yourself and um being okay with who you

are and being imperfect is okay.

>> They absolutely did that. They they kind

of came in and made me feel less lonely.

um made me feel less lonely, less of a

freak, less of a weird, shy little kid

on a farm in the middle of nowhere,

which is pretty much what I was, you

know,

>> and relating to those feelings and um

knowing, I guess, not feeling alone,

too, that that this person knows how

this feels and it's really personal and

pretty amazing. It's kind of like, wow,

that song's about me. Or I know how that

feels to be invisible.

>> I always feel my uncoolness

all the time. Like I don't fit in. And

part of me wants not to care, but part

of me does care. And I think I think

that's when you listen to the songs and

you like even when Paul will talk, you

know, you know that they get that.

You know, it's like I'm not cool and I

don't care, but I do care.

I don't care. You know, you know, screw

it. It's like I think that's what it is

for me. I never felt like I fit in. I

was always not even like so weird that

you take notice, but so weird that

nobody would notice. Like invisible. We

meet people from high school and they

like they don't even remember me. It was

like I wasn't even there. And that's I

mean it's a that's a little bit sad but

you know is life worth it? Um you my

parents don't understand me. I hate my

friends. Um I don't even know if they

like me. Um you know what's my purpose

in life?

>> You know and it it does change your

life. It it makes you feel like you know

what

I'm not what all the kids at school that

are cool say I am. I'm not a loser. Like

I I got there are other people that feel

the same way. And maybe I am a loser but

I'm the best looking loser ever, you

know? And that's that's Tommy Stinson.

That's that's Paul Eterick. Those are

the guys. We're the coolest losers

you're ever going to meet.

>> The Replacements

to a degree embodied that because you

had this, you know, uh a a a janitor, a

crazy drunk, and a little kid come

together in this band and it and it was

it was really effective. It sort of it

was it was a different slice of that

like weirdo pie.

>> If it had have been for them, I don't

know.

Maybe I would have discovered Morsy, but

the whole like farm Morsy thing is not

going to work. So, there's something

about them. They were sort of Morsy for

the Midwest.

>> You know, the 80s were a really

difficult time if you were a young

person in this country. Um, you know,

you felt like you were going to be in a

nuclear war cuz we had a freaking

lunatic in the White House

>> and and the drugs were being taken away,

right? The joy of the drugs. And you,

you know, we suddenly couldn't even [ __ ]

anymore because it was potentially

lethal. And on top of it all, you had

the [ __ ] baby boomers

consistently getting in your face and

saying,

>> "Nothing you ever see in your life is

going to be nearly as good as the

Beatles. Nothing you ever experience

will be nearly as good as Woodstock." To

which, you know, you and I were

responding, "Fuck you. We just saw The

Replacements."

>> I never got to see them live.

>> I've seen the band three times.

>> A total of seven times.

>> Probably like eight.

>> Eight or nine times?

>> About 10 times. 10 12 times.

>> Probably about 15 20 25

>> probably seen the replacements 25 times.

>> 26 30

>> 30 times.

>> Maybe more.

>> 30 to 40.

>> I want to say 60.

>> 80. God, maybe a hundred more. I think

about it.

>> Oh, I'm sure a couple hundred.

>> And I've worked with bands and, you

know, have loved, you know, fallen in

love with bands and bought every record

and done all that stuff since then, but

none have I ever like felt compelled to

like go see 300 times.

And I just remember walking in and Paul

was sitting in there and I and I sat

down next to him and we both just looked

completely miserable and he just went

drink and that was where it started and

it just kept going and then it never

stopped. You know, by the time we got up

to play to open the show, we were all a

total train wreck. probably about 20

minutes or half hour into our set, we

were just completely falling apart and

totally inept and the replacements just

came up on stage and took our

instruments and started playing. And I

think u it was the sort of a silent

night, hey goodlooking medley. And I

think that was the end of our set pretty

much. It was really awful. I can't

remember if it was before they went on

or after, but we were going insane in

the dressing room and Paul went running

across the room to do a Tarzan thing and

leaped up to grab the chandelier and the

chandelier came out of the ceiling

completely and he landed flat on his

back. It was pretty ugly. The dressing

room was up on the second floor and at

some point we all um took the couch out

of the dressing room and threw it

managed to get it through the window and

uh drop it two stories down onto the

sidewalk. Just, you know, eight eight

guys being complete [ __ ] idiots.

That's all it was. Yeah. But uh you

know, musically it was not a banner

night. That's for sure. I've never heard

of anybody saying, you know, that was

really a great show. Nobody's Nobody's

taking that stance.

I got to admit this though. The first

time I heard Don't Tell a Soul, I got a

I got a copy of it for my birthday and

we were we were sitting in our friend's

apartment and and uh we were we were all

drunk and [ __ ] up and and uh I opened

up and I tore it open and like put it in

the put it in the CD player and um

and I heard it and I I pushed the eject

button, put it back in the case and

threw it out the window and I was like,

"No way. this is not the replacements.

[Music]

>> I found that the replacements were

making a record. So I called Stephen

Baker and I said, "I'm really interested

into this because I'm a big fan of the

band." He's like, "You know, I'm really

excited that you're excited, but you

don't have a track record." They worked

to Tony Berg and depending on who you

speak to, he either quit or was fired.

So anyway, so along the line, I I I

would call up, you know, Steven Baker,

Warner Brothers, like, "Hey, you know, I

heard Tony Berg's not on the on the

project, you know, can I do it?" And

then he'd say something like, "Well,

actually, they're meeting with Scott

Lit, you know, who did all the REM stuff

for us and and we're hoping this will

work out, but we'll keep you posted."

From what I hear, this is of course

third party information. They met with

Scott Lit and they end up duct taping

him to a chair, and he basically said,

you know, I'm not interested. Um, so I

was just really perseverant. I had

always felt that they were a fantastic

band. I I always thought that Paul was

this kind of really incredible

songwriter and you know he obviously was

working within the confines of of a of a

really kind of a scrappy uh punk band

and to me that dichotomy was really

interesting.

>> How long did you guys record for?

>> Too damn long.

>> I honestly still say that Don't Tell Us

All is my favorite. But I think that

there's something to be said for the

music that you listen to between the

ages of like 13 and 20. I mean, you

never quite get over that.

>> For the first two weeks of that project,

I I went home to my then girlfriend,

Lisa, and I just said, "I'm going to

quit this thing." And it and it was

really a difficult situation for me

because here's an opportunity to be

established as a producer, work with a

well-known band, but Everyday was just

so bone crushingly difficult. You know,

>> it's a record that I over the over the

years have come to like a lot more than

I did at the time. I think I was a

little shocked by the degree to which

restraint had entered the the

replacement's life and I don't know that

I was prepared to accept them as

grown-ups. I hired this engineer Bev

Jones and you know so we started making

this record and I think it was by

Wednesday they wanted us to go out

drinking with them. We went out to the

uh to the Rainbow Room and again I'm I'm

I'm really what a tea totler so I went

out there. Okay, we'll hang with these

guys and their whole idea is that if you

drink you'll let down your guard and

you'll really become real with each

other. And so we sit down. I'm sitting

with Tommy and he takes a magic marker

and he puts it right in the knee of my

jeans. I'm like, "Oh man, come on." And

he digs and he just draws it right over

my favorite shirt and down across my

pants. I'm like, "This is not

happening." So then I took, of course, I

had to draw on him because that's part

of the the ritual, I guess. But the next

day, Bev Jones showed up late and I

could tell by look on his face that that

was it. And he walked in. He said, "I'm

done." So I end up not only producing,

but I end up engineering this project.

And I think I I was kind of the the

common enemy. I mean, I certainly had

that feeling. I mean, I'm not

exaggerating how many times that I was,

you know, threatened.

>> It was their first attempt to do a

perfect album and a unified album with a

unified sound. And that's not the

replacements. That's not what they do

best. I mean, forget the production,

though. Maybe you really can't forget

the production.

>> [ __ ] the production. Who cares about the

production when you got a song like Aen

to be on there and you're going to [ __ ]

because there's too much reverb on it?

Yeah, there's too much reverb on it. It

was 1987. Everyone was using way too

much reverb.

>> Well, Aen to be is the best. It's the

best song hands down. It's the best

written song and it's a stunning

performance and that is just that to me

that's kind of one of those highlights

of working with the band. I mean that

that aging to be is one of the reasons

why you hang on for all the crap. It was

really kind of the beginning of at least

somewhere along the the vanguard of of

alt country. And the fact that those

guys were able to get there and do it

well before other bands and they also

had the backbone to do it because I

think it would have been really easy to

not have included here comes a regular

or not have included you know aching to

be because it wasn't the replacements or

wasn't punk rock. And it's interesting

that that record I had some friends who

were friends of various bands and I tell

you I you know tested a lot of

friendships when they heard that record.

A lot of people didn't like that record

at all. They were just really upset.

It's not a replacement record. Really

love the replacements and you basically

ruined them. I was like, "Oh man, you

know, come on." It was a [ __ ] great

record.

And for reasons that um

maybe are hard to articulate, but uh

I'm a big fan of bands sellout records

>> for for some reason. Um because I feel

like uh you get glimpses into people at

those times that can be not good, but

you can also see that you know what, I

know you're trying awfully hard here to

break the mold. Paul and I had talked

about making a classic record that had a

sound that you couldn't pinpoint what

era it came from. And we had always

moved in that direction. all the all the

rough mix I'd done which weren't

stunning by any by any stretch of the

imagination but they kind of continued

the aesthetic we were working on the

record and I think at the record label

in an attempt to you know bring them

more towards the masses you know

enlisted uh Chris analogy so he'd mix it

in a certain way that you know for me

uh while it worked at that time it

sounds like the end of the 80s to me

Chris uh Lord Algae put a lot of um like

chorus on the guitars is there's a

there's a kind of a

>> syme thing.

>> That was all added after.

>> Oh yeah, that was all added after. We

didn't we didn't we didn't track with

that stuff. So that's why I'm saying we

made a classic record. You know, in in

Chris's defense, not everything was in

the best of tune. So I think it was

easier to kind of uh make it more

palatable by putting chorusing on it. So

that made it so that people couldn't

really tell, wow, this guitar is kind of

out of tune. It was just like, you know,

there it is. Look, this all goes back to

decisions that the band and I made and

and and specifically the band. I mean,

you know, I remember on uh a couple of

songs where, you know, Paul plays guitar

part, you know, and I'd be like, "Oh,

wow. That's a really cool part. Like,

let's let's uh let's tune your guitar up

and play a little more in time, you

know, and Paul be like, I forgot the

chords, you know, which is basically

like, [ __ ] you. It's done." As much as

we want to blame Chris and say, you

know, I wish we' done it differently and

and he's like like I'm trying to make it

so that more people will want to buy it

because we need to make it more

accessible or palatable or

understandable.

>> I mean, it's very obvious that Warner

Brothers wanted a commercial release and

they thought that LBU is going to be a

huge hit. Uh to the point where they

pressed up way too many and the album

ended up in the cutouts, but uh that was

the only one that ever did. If Don't

Tell the Soul were not as produced as it

was, I don't know that it would have

been on the radio to tell you the truth.

So, I'm really happy that it was because

that introduced me to the band.

>> I I I wouldn't change a thing except for

I would love to have heard it mixed the

way that Paul and I want to be mixed.

And that if if you know, if we had a

chance to do that, that would be great

because I I I think we would have made a

classic record that would have been even

more stunning. Don't tell a soul as soon

as you dropped the needle on it or

whatever we do these days. You knew it

was sort of over that um this was a

band, you know, the band formerly known

as the Replacements.

>> When I saw them at the end, I saw them

uh the tour they opened for Tom Petty,

it was the one time I saw the band where

I thought this is actually kind of

boring, you know, cuz they had sort of

become a little more professional and

they weren't as risky, they weren't as

edgy. Um, it was still good, but it lost

it lost that specialness. I mean, it was

sort of like, you know, having Slim

Dunlop, you could see why they wanted

him. He's a solid player, but the

lunatic edge that Bob brought to the

band um was sort of missed.

>> The Replacements were a hard band to

bring somebody to go see for the first

time, saying, "You got to go see these

guys. I love this band." Right? But you

didn't know what you're going to get.

And then somehow you'd always be in that

position of trying to say, "Oh, no. This

is cool. You know, you know, they're

playing all these covers. You know, this

is cool." people would be looking at you

like, "Yeah,

yeah."

>> I wonder if all of the, you know, the

crazy stunts, playing your worst shows

when the, you know, the record people

are there, if it was self-defense,

because if you're, you know, you're

laying yourself bare in front of an

audience,

you you you need you need a defense

mechanism. Was that it? You know, was it

fear of success? Was it fear of being

exposed? I don't know.

>> There's something about

this song, the music, obviously the

guitar, the bass and the drum, but also

something about Westber's voice, you

know, something about,

you know, it's not just what he says,

it's it's how he says it. something even

as simple as like his vocabulary,

you know, um his phrasing,

you know, when when he takes a breath or

something while he's singing. There's

something about that rhythm

that felt

like almost exactly like

the voice inside my own head.

>> I think we all knew we were just living

in his

crooked shadow.

Westerberg's genius is that he knew not

to be neat. Westerberg's genius was that

he joined Bob Stinson's band. Uh and and

uh and so there was always this sense of

impending chaos and therefore his

ability to capture

a certain kind of distinctly adolescent

alienation.

It's pretty much unparalleled. I don't

think anybody ever did it better. What

what made Paul also relatable is I think

he could go either way and he could be

the biggest dick. He could be the

sweetest guy. He could be the guy

punching you in the mouth for for saying

something off, you know, that struck him

as off. And then he could kill you with

this like heart-wrenching song where you

felt like he was singing your life to

you,

>> you know. And I I've seen shows where

it's gone from those kind of extremes

all in like, you know, the space of an

hour or like even the space of a song

sometimes.

>> And that's what was really powerful

about it. It wasn't just if it had just

been chaos and we went we're here to rip

[ __ ] up and we're here to you know get

drunk and and play sloppy covers that

would have been fine for like a year or

two. But it was like there was a deeper

sense of you know

he was he was living through the same

[ __ ] we were.

>> As we say he's a nice bunch of guys. To

understand him you have to have an

appreciation and a love for dichotomy.

And because every human facet that you

can have, he's got both of them. I've

seen him be very selfish. I've seen him

be un unbelievably generous. I've seen

him literally hand the coat off of his

back to someone on the street who was

cold and needed a coat. They all saw

this halo around Westerberg somewhere in

' 81, 82 that I didn't see. They knew

this was going to happen. Oh yes, I knew

right from the beginning Paul was going

to be destined to all [ __ ] you

know, he told me, well, one of the

issues I had early on in lack of

confidence in my own songwriting was

that the other guys would make fun of

him for writing sensitive songs.

>> And I asked him about, you know, who

writes the music. And Paul said, well,

you know, I write the music. And then

behind me, I hear, yeah, if you can call

it that. But you saw what happened to

him when he didn't have that chaos

around him and he was sort of allowed to

indulge the other side. Maybe to, you

know, an extreme that he wouldn't have

done if if Bob Stinson had still been

around.

>> That record sounds like the soundtrack

to the the death of a band and maybe the

death of the leader of the band.

>> You know what I mean? just so damaged

and so uh desperately uh just sounds

like he's on his last leg. I really like

the record. Um maybe there's more

throwaways on it, you know, but the high

points, the song All Shook Down is

fantastic. Happy Town, Merrygoround. Um

and uh Someone Take the Wheel. Oh my

god, when I heard that I was like, "This

guy's in trouble. He's in trouble."

When I got the All Shook Down album and

just read the credits and saw saw how

many people were on the record that were

not members of the Replacements, it

seemed like it was the end of the story.

And I I love the last record. I love All

Shut Down, even though it's not really,

you know, it's mainly just Paul, but I

love every song on that record. Um, it

really and at that time I remember when

it came out too that I think everybody

in my

circle of friends kind of had already

jumped ship.

It was sad to see this slow demise and

then when the was it the last record

that it was basically a solo record for

Paul which I liked. I personally liked

it. Like I said, I was a fan and I was

going to go down with the Titanic.

Basically, the band was now half of what

the replacements were originally. And

you almost got the impression that that

half was broken in half, too. So, I

mean, you know, if you're going to burn

that bright, I guess you burn out.

I get in the car, turn on the radio, and

the DJs are saying, "We think the

replacements have just broken up on

stage.

[Music]

Their story is very similar to the

Velveton girl."

And even the whole cliche about everyone

who liked them picked up a guitar. I I

think in some respects it's the same

with the replacements.

>> The risk of sound sounding cheesy and

cliche. Their replacements changed my

life and I know I'm not alone. You can

talk to bands like said Craig Finn or

the goooo Dolls or Gaslight Anthem.

>> Well, I think that they really, like I

said, they sort of made me believe as a

teenager in Minneapolis that I could be

in a in a band.

>> For me, it was just like a a paradigm

shift. like it was just like whoa. It

was like, you know,

my perspective on on music and and and

the world and everything changed in in

like literally like a moment. Like I I

finally found a band that I could

completely relate to and make my own. I

remember I used to play at a cafe and

that's kind of how I learned how to play

and it was like an open mic night that

we they would do every Thursday and I

would go and I learned androgynous on

the guitar and I would sing it and and

this it was you know the most simplified

version of it ever but I would play it

cuz I loved it so much and I was 15 I

think 95 and uh there was this older

girl who was like maybe 23 at the time

and I don't even remember her name but I

remember she was the only one who knew

what I was talking about came up to me

at the end of the at the end of the

night and was like That's that's the

replacements. And I was like, oh my

gosh, like check this girl out talking

to me because of the replacement song

that I don't even know what it means,

but I like it, you know. And I was like,

you know, when I was 15, I have a 23-y

old guy. I was like, yeah, you know, I'm

like, I'm Hugh Hefner now. Like, look at

me. The Replacements did a good job for

me.

>> Matthew Ryan is another guy that I would

say when I look at people who were

influenced by the Replacements because

he's just as tortured. He's just as

dark. It made me want to tell the truth

in a way that was beautiful. And if it

wasn't beautiful, maybe it should be

ugly, you know?

>> But they weren't afraid to write about

being insecure and having a broken

heart. And that to me is the basis of

what emo rose out of.

>> The replacements are kind of in a way

the great existential heroes of American

indie rock music.

>> When I heard that music, I thought that

they had a gift that maybe they weren't

supposed to have. And that's a really

cool thing in the art world. It made

playing music seem more doable. You

know, you didn't have to be a studied

performer. You didn't have to know your

scales. You didn't really have to know

chords that well, but you didn't even

know how to tune your guitar that well.

It could be a little out of tune and

that would be fine. The file was named

Color Me Sedated. It was um I want to be

sedated by the Ramones and Color Me

Impressed by Replacements. Tweety

introduces the song on stage by saying,

"Everything we do is based on the

replacements."

>> I don't think anybody could have been

the replacements. And I don't think um

maybe you could think that it looks

easy, but I think every young band wants

to be the replacements, but there'll

never be that cuz there's only one

replacements. It's not going to happen.

>> It's hard to think of an al alternative

rock band

uh in the '9s that didn't sound exactly

like the replacements. Nirvana's record

is called Never Mind. I don't think

that's a coincidence, you know. I think

it's one of the greatest songs. I'm

pleased to meet me.

>> If you put replacements in Husker in a

blender, you'd have like 90% of the

Seattle scene. When I was working with

Nirvana and some of those conversations

were like they were, you know, let's

just be as big as the replacements.

That's awesome, you know, but then and

then realizing like, oh, they really

weren't that big. They didn't have

commercial success. You know, we worship

Paul Westerberg and we saw him on

Saturday Night Live and thought, oh my

god, the world gets it. But really, the

world didn't get it.

>> The Replacements had a lot to do with

why I even started playing music at all.

>> We were much more immediately and deeply

influenced by The Replacements.

>> When we started playing together, that's

we that's all we wanted was to be the

replacements, you know, but it was all

about them, man. I mean, and hearing

that music, it was I can't believe

>> how how bad we ripped that band off on

our first couple of record. It's it's

pretty incredible. When we were starting

out, people used to always ask us if we

wanted to be the Beatles of comedy. I

think it was Kevin McDonald who first

responded. He said, "No, we'd rather be

the replacements of comedy."

>> There was no way I was going to have any

success. There was no way I was going to

make it out of there alive. And uh you

know just seeing one person get out that

you knew one group of guys that you know

just pulled it together and made you

know made a little bit of history gave

you hope that maybe if I could pull it

together that there's something out

there that I could do.

>> What the replacements really did though

was they kind of helped invent college

rock. you know, that whole college left

of the dial, you know, kind of uh

basically industry, you know, that

allowed

thousands of bands to get radio airplay.

>> If you haven't heard Let It Be and you

haven't heard, you know, Please to Meet

Me, you're missing out a huge part of

that connects things like Bob Dylan or

the punk movement to modern music today.

It's like not studying any of the wars

in American history. Like you don't know

how exactly you got here. You know you

got here, but you don't know why.

>> They're one of those bands that that

became much much cooler and well known

after they had disintegrated. And I I

swear to God, I have met thousands of

people that are like, "Yeah, I saw the

replacements." I'm like, "I didn't see

you there. I didn't see where were you?

Where were all these people?" like 50

million people claim to have seen the

replacements, but they weren't there,

you know, and and that's part of the

mythology.

>> They might not have, you know, become

famous, but

they're infamous.

And

I think that probably worked for them

even better.

>> They were a glorious mess. You know,

that's what they were. You You got to

listen to these records. I mean, you

know, perhaps some of their commercial

success that eluded them was because a

lot of people couldn't figure out who

the hell they were.

>> Or maybe they were a a very strong spice

that most people who eat McDonald's

would never be able to stomach. Maybe

the replacements were too good to be

that popular.

>> Their albums are like

>> they're like family. You know, I can

love them because of their flaws. you

know, another band, it's like, uh,

>> you know, you two or Ted Milin or

whatever the hell I can be like, well,

this is a good song, this is a bad song.

But them, it's like,

>> it's something else. It's like, you

know, when you see like

>> your kid or or a niece or a nephew or

something play a school concert and it

sucks, it doesn't matter.

>> But but this was this was really the the

Phoenix. This was the Phoenix. And we

didn't know it. We really didn't know it

at the time. We did not know.

We didn't We didn't know what was going

to happen. We didn't We didn't know what

we had.

>> It's always about timing. How those guys

met, how music needed them at that exact

moment in time and they did exactly what

we all had hoped and we were a little uh

selfish about the fact that we got it

and no one else did.

>> I mean, they were just a rock and roll

band, you know, but also weren't the

Rolling Stones just a rock and roll

band? The sum of the parts of a band is

what makes them special. And for

whatever reason, as opposed to some

other band in Minneapolis, this

particular grouping of these four

particular people produced the sort of,

you know, sparks colliding, atoms,

smashing, whatever that produced this

attitude that runs in their music. We

are fortunate to have to have

artists

who come along very rarely in our

lifetimes. You know, Jimmyi Hendris, the

Beatles, and the Replacements, I think,

is one of these acts. So, very unique,

very

fragile and precious.

>> Even to this day, I don't know. It's

hard for me to talk about

whether they're good or not.

And and sometimes it's even hard for me

to talk about

whether I like them or not, or if

they're just simply such a part of me,

>> you know, like it's hard for me to talk,

do I like my parents? Do I like this? Do

I like Minnesota? Do I like

>> Oxygen?

And I just I wonder

how much of it is is them and and

like if they hadn't come around come

along I think we would have had to

invent them somehow.

[Music]

>> Why does the soul of rock and roll find

a place to live in the Twin Cities?

To me, it's like Minneapolis was this

very exotic place, as exotic as London

was.

I guess I've been that fan where I've

been the guy, you know, drunk in

Minneapolis after one of my gigs, you

know, driving around trying to find the

house from Let It Be or, you know, the

bar CC bar where supposedly Paul wrote

Here Comes a Regular.

>> It was like the Emerald City, man. It

was like the shining city on the hill.

>> First time we went to Minneapolis, we we

we were staying uh with some people at

the Ron Westy run house. Actually, we

were staying and and I remember we

picked up the phone book and

>> and John opened up the phone book and

found Westber's name in the phone book

and we were like, "Oh my god, his name's

in the phone book." Like he was such a

big rock star. We were like,

>> "Yeah." So

>> I called I called the number. I called

the number and I go like, "Hello, is

this Paul Westerberg?" And the guy's

like, "Yeah." I go, "Is this the Paul

Westerberg that wrote Auto?"

And then he just hung up. I'm like,

"It's got to be him. It's got to be him.

That's That's him.

>> That's what he would have done."

>> Yeah. That's what he would have done.

You know, there's um there's a Canadian

uh punk musician, Art Bergman. He's

great. and he was once asked to describe

what made um music, especially you know

uh punk music so good. And he said, "You

know what's really difficult about it is

that to get something that matters, it's

like you're leaning off the edge of a

cliff and taking a piss at the same

time. You can't sustain it forever and

you need a little bit of reckless

disregard for yourself. Uh but you know

that going into it if you want to create

something meaningful." And what I think

is extraordinary about the replacements

is that they seem to be able to maintain

that balancing act of willful disregard

for themselves

and came up with something that was very

real and that was very uh unique

>> for really a very long period of time

because there's a short shelf life once

you start leaning off of a cliff.

>> They weren't really punk rock. They were

just Actually, they're what classic rock

should be. When people use the word

classic rock, they shouldn't be talking

about the [ __ ] Eagles. They should be

talking about the Replacements.

>> For me, greatest band of all time.

>> For me, The Replacements made my world a

better place. If you're a music fan, I

think you feel that sense of discovery

sometimes, and you feel like, okay, my

my world now makes more sense. It makes

more sense than the moment before I

heard this song.

>> The great thing for me about The

Replacements is that there's almost a

song for every moment. You know, there's

a song that can be played at a wedding.

There's a song that can be played at a

funeral.

>> They were capable of changing your mood,

your mental state,

>> possibly your DNA at that point in your

life.

Certain records like Exile, those three

Dylan records, you know, uh, Bringing It

All Back Home and Highway 61 and Blonde

on Blonde, and those replacements

records. I mean, if you were trying to

explain to a Martian what rock and roll

is, those are the records that you would

play them. I didn't go to the

Replacements because I thought rock

history was being made. I went because

it was full of mystery, suspense, and

sometimes magical transcendent moments.

>> An indefinable quality, and they had it

up the ass.

>> You can tune a piano, but you can't tune

the replacements.

>> Finn voted him best of the decade or

something. And John Bon Joy had that

famous quote, "Well, if they're so big,

how come I've never heard of them?" I

would tell that to the audience like

they have they have the negative John

Bonjovi seal of approval.

>> What I would say to somebody is I would

hold the album. I would say you know let

it be cuz actually that's yeah that's

the one I would say imagine if no one

knew who the Beatles were or who the

Rolling Stones were and somebody comes

up to you and gives you

a Beatles album. So that's what this is.

I think it's that good. It's not just an

accident.

>> I thought rock people were people that

descended from some mountain, some rock

mountain where Paul Westerberg, Tommy

Stinson, Bob Stinson, and Chris Mars,

they were all believable. Like, not only

did I know lots of people that looked

like them. I actually would see them

sometimes on the street. And I was

thinking with your with your film that

if everyone that watched it gave Let It

Be to the a 15year-old,

>> I think that within 5 to 10 years

there's going to be

100 new bands because of that.

>> That that notion that anybody can do it,

that I'm not special just because I

wrote one great song or or or even 50

great songs in Westerberg's case, you

could do this. You should be doing it.

What's stopping you from doing it? I

mean, really, if you wanted to do the

ultimate homage to the replacements, you

should have visited 50 basements and

found out what those kids who everybody

else in the universe hates, or so they

think, what kind of noise they're

making. That's the replacement story.

>> There's not much in this world you can

believe in, but when you find something

like that that makes your world better,

that makes you feel better, that makes

sense to you, and is something you can

believe in, you hold on to it. And I I

think that that's what the Replacements

will always be to me, something I could

believe in. But music like the

Replacements is, you know, about

engagement with your own imagination and

hope and disappointment

and also

ability to fail miserably, you know,

even though maybe they thought they were

like Charlie Brown or whatever, that

they were never going to win,

that gave them the power to create all

their own rules, which they played by to

astonishing effect,

you know. So, I would say if you're a

human being,

this is, you know,

the best or the most human band.

Music for humans.

No band's ever deserve that title more

than than the good old Replacements, I'd

say.

Music for humans.

The song Answering Machine, if you just

read the lyrics, it sounds like this

really sensitive poetry. It sounds like

he doesn't care if anyone heard it.

Sounds like a postcard to himself.

And when I heard that, I realized that

they had actually captured an emotion

there in that song

so perfectly. They captured that moment

of someone who is there home alone at

3:00 in the morning or out at the bar or

on a street corner and wishing they

could get in touch with this person that

they're thinking about.

>> Well, we did correspond. I mean, he

would be on the road and he would say

things like, you know, I can't write in

on the road because it's all bumpy and

stuff and and I want to write and and I

think he just wanted to get in touch. I

mean, this I got to know him before he

before the replacements got massive. I

don't know, our conversations were

really good. Sometimes he'd say I was

too quiet, sometimes he was too quiet. I

don't think we actually got to speak

that much. And so, you know, being a pen

pal is really great, but um it's sort of

nicer if you hear the person's voice.

And um so anyway, one day he left a

message on my answering machine and and

I had been out a lot cuz I usually went

out about two or three nights a week and

I just got home and he just left this

really funny message saying

[Applause]

you know you're never there and you know

I hate your answering machine and you

know one of these days I'm going to

write a song about it and as you do and

So he did.

[Music]