Original subtitles

Thank you for joining us. Uh uh I'm glad

Thank you for joining us. Uh uh I'm glad

Thank you for joining us. Uh uh I'm glad that we chose this seating arrangement

that we chose this seating arrangement

that we chose this seating arrangement because you're How tall are you?

because you're How tall are you?

because you're How tall are you? >> Very tall.

>> Very tall.

>> Very tall. >> Yeah, that's what I thought when it came

>> Yeah, that's what I thought when it came

>> Yeah, that's what I thought when it came out. At first, I thought I bet this

out. At first, I thought I bet this

out. At first, I thought I bet this gentleman can dunk. All right, that's

gentleman can dunk. All right, that's

gentleman can dunk. All right, that's how I think. Uh how to win a trade war.

how I think. Uh how to win a trade war.

how I think. Uh how to win a trade war. Boy, this would come in handy if we

Boy, this would come in handy if we

Boy, this would come in handy if we found ourselves in a trade war. Are we

found ourselves in a trade war. Are we

found ourselves in a trade war. Are we in a trade war?

in a trade war?

in a trade war? >> Yeah,

>> Yeah,

>> Yeah, >> we are in a trade war

>> we are in a trade war

>> we are in a trade war with everyone.

with everyone.

with everyone. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. whole world.

Are we winning?

Are we winning?

Are we winning? Oh boy.

Oh boy.

Oh boy. What?

What?

What? How would we know? Oh boy. Are we

How would we know? Oh boy. Are we

How would we know? Oh boy. Are we winning against anybody? Is Belgium are

winning against anybody? Is Belgium are

winning against anybody? Is Belgium are we beating Belgium?

>> So

>> I feel like like two doctors trying not

>> I feel like like two doctors trying not

>> I feel like like two doctors trying not to break bad news to me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. >> So, so we are the trade war. Let's be

>> So, so we are the trade war. Let's be

>> So, so we are the trade war. Let's be clear. We launched the trade war.

clear. We launched the trade war.

clear. We launched the trade war. Correct.

Correct.

Correct. >> Yes. Liberation Day launched the trade

>> Yes. Liberation Day launched the trade

>> Yes. Liberation Day launched the trade war.

war.

war. >> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Yes. You can speak more than one word.

You can speak more than one word.

You can speak more than one word. >> Okay. Okay. So, yes. So, so just over a

>> Okay. Okay. So, yes. So, so just over a

>> Okay. Okay. So, yes. So, so just over a year ago, um, uh, Donald Trump decided

year ago, um, uh, Donald Trump decided

year ago, um, uh, Donald Trump decided to ignore the most basic military

to ignore the most basic military

to ignore the most basic military strategy and, uh, fight a war on all the

strategy and, uh, fight a war on all the

strategy and, uh, fight a war on all the fronts. Okay.

fronts. Okay.

fronts. Okay. >> Uh, at at the same time,

>> Uh, at at the same time,

>> Uh, at at the same time, >> he'd launch a trade war against

>> he'd launch a trade war against

>> he'd launch a trade war against everybody.

everybody.

everybody. >> Everybody. Okay. Everybody. And And

>> Everybody. Okay. Everybody. And And

>> Everybody. Okay. Everybody. And And yeah, there is a reason, uh, you're not

yeah, there is a reason, uh, you're not

yeah, there is a reason, uh, you're not supposed to to do that.

supposed to to do that.

supposed to to do that. >> Um,

>> Um,

>> Um, >> would that be in here?

>> would that be in here?

>> would that be in here? >> Maybe. Maybe. Um and so okay so stepping

>> Maybe. Maybe. Um and so okay so stepping

>> Maybe. Maybe. Um and so okay so stepping back right the the problem in the global

back right the the problem in the global

back right the the problem in the global econ there is a real trade problem in

econ there is a real trade problem in

econ there is a real trade problem in the global economy and it's to do with

the global economy and it's to do with

the global economy and it's to do with the relationship with China

the relationship with China

the relationship with China >> um and that is that is a significant

>> um and that is that is a significant

>> um and that is that is a significant issue and what would have been good

issue and what would have been good

issue and what would have been good >> is to work with allies uh because

>> is to work with allies uh because

>> is to work with allies uh because >> I'm sorry what was the last part

>> I'm sorry what was the last part

>> I'm sorry what was the last part >> because when you fight a war

>> because when you fight a war

>> because when you fight a war >> on all of the fronts that means your

>> on all of the fronts that means your

>> on all of the fronts that means your allies are also fighting a war on all of

allies are also fighting a war on all of

allies are also fighting a war on all of the fronts. So suddenly Europe was going

the fronts. So suddenly Europe was going

the fronts. So suddenly Europe was going to try to deal with the China issue but

to try to deal with the China issue but

to try to deal with the China issue but now it's having to also deal with the US

now it's having to also deal with the US

now it's having to also deal with the US issue at the same time. What would the

issue at the same time. What would the

issue at the same time. What would the metrics be of a trade? So how do we even

metrics be of a trade? So how do we even

metrics be of a trade? So how do we even judge whether or not so we understand

judge whether or not so we understand

judge whether or not so we understand the strategy should not have been to

the strategy should not have been to

the strategy should not have been to fire on our allies as well as our

fire on our allies as well as our

fire on our allies as well as our rivals. What are the metrics of a trade

rivals. What are the metrics of a trade

rivals. What are the metrics of a trade war? How do we how do we judge it? I

war? How do we how do we judge it? I

war? How do we how do we judge it? I think the most important one is can you

think the most important one is can you

think the most important one is can you do what you want or are you being

do what you want or are you being

do what you want or are you being constrained by uh your vulnerabilities

constrained by uh your vulnerabilities

constrained by uh your vulnerabilities to not be able to do what you want. I

to not be able to do what you want. I

to not be able to do what you want. I think that's the biggest key to show how

think that's the biggest key to show how

think that's the biggest key to show how we're losing right now.

we're losing right now.

we're losing right now. >> When we say can we do what we want, we

>> When we say can we do what we want, we

>> When we say can we do what we want, we mean can we sell our products where we

mean can we sell our products where we

mean can we sell our products where we want to sell them for the price we would

want to sell them for the price we would

want to sell them for the price we would like to sell them at.

like to sell them at.

like to sell them at. >> That could be part of it. Uh it could be

>> That could be part of it. Uh it could be

>> That could be part of it. Uh it could be that uh we want to impose policies. Uh

that uh we want to impose policies. Uh

that uh we want to impose policies. Uh maybe we're worried about certain

maybe we're worried about certain

maybe we're worried about certain countries out there that rhyme with

countries out there that rhyme with

countries out there that rhyme with schmina.

schmina.

schmina. >> Um

>> Um

>> Um >> I had a different rhyme earlier, but

>> I had a different rhyme earlier, but

>> I had a different rhyme earlier, but yours works too.

yours works too.

yours works too. >> And maybe you want to do things like

>> And maybe you want to do things like

>> And maybe you want to do things like tariffs or export restrictions or, you

tariffs or export restrictions or, you

tariffs or export restrictions or, you know, be a little tough on on certain

know, be a little tough on on certain

know, be a little tough on on certain issues, but you can't because you're

issues, but you can't because you're

issues, but you can't because you're worried about them standing up to you in

worried about them standing up to you in

worried about them standing up to you in a way that you're really vulnerable. And

a way that you're really vulnerable. And

a way that you're really vulnerable. And that's where we found oursel last year.

that's where we found oursel last year.

that's where we found oursel last year. China has figured out how to play a

China has figured out how to play a

China has figured out how to play a trade war, how to at least win a trade

trade war, how to at least win a trade

trade war, how to at least win a trade war at the moment. And that's because

war at the moment. And that's because

war at the moment. And that's because we're vulnerable to a lot of things that

we're vulnerable to a lot of things that

we're vulnerable to a lot of things that we need for our economy to work that

we need for our economy to work that

we need for our economy to work that really China is the only one out there

really China is the only one out there

really China is the only one out there that makes right now. And

that makes right now. And

that makes right now. And >> how are we vulnerable? What what what is

>> how are we vulnerable? What what what is

>> how are we vulnerable? What what what is it that China does that makes us

it that China does that makes us

it that China does that makes us vulnerable?

vulnerable?

vulnerable? >> They uh mine, process, uh manufacture

>> They uh mine, process, uh manufacture

>> They uh mine, process, uh manufacture into magnets something called rare

into magnets something called rare

into magnets something called rare earths. So they they go into cars, into

earths. So they they go into cars, into

earths. So they they go into cars, into defense systems, um

defense systems, um

defense systems, um >> electronics. electronics. Uh, you know,

>> electronics. electronics. Uh, you know,

>> electronics. electronics. Uh, you know, I never thought I would know so much

I never thought I would know so much

I never thought I would know so much about rare earth supply chains, but here

about rare earth supply chains, but here

about rare earth supply chains, but here we are. Um, and essentially, you know,

we are. Um, and essentially, you know,

we are. Um, and essentially, you know, China has been copying what the US has

China has been copying what the US has

China has been copying what the US has been doing, I think. Um, because the US

been doing, I think. Um, because the US

been doing, I think. Um, because the US has been restricting exports to China

has been restricting exports to China

has been restricting exports to China um, for a while. And so, the Chinese

um, for a while. And so, the Chinese

um, for a while. And so, the Chinese just looked at what the US was doing and

just looked at what the US was doing and

just looked at what the US was doing and said, "Okay, we can do that, too." So we

said, "Okay, we can do that, too." So we

said, "Okay, we can do that, too." So we do strategic uh restrictions and you

do strategic uh restrictions and you

do strategic uh restrictions and you talk about this in the book strategic

talk about this in the book strategic

talk about this in the book strategic restrictions on exports meaning we have

restrictions on exports meaning we have

restrictions on exports meaning we have the one advantage we have is our chips

the one advantage we have is our chips

the one advantage we have is our chips are apparently second to none. We're

are apparently second to none. We're

are apparently second to none. We're apparently two to three months ahead of

apparently two to three months ahead of

apparently two to three months ahead of everybody else when it comes to chips.

everybody else when it comes to chips.

everybody else when it comes to chips. So we restrict that from going directly

So we restrict that from going directly

So we restrict that from going directly to China.

to China.

to China. >> That's our leverage

>> That's our leverage

>> That's our leverage >> and the equipment um that goes into make

>> and the equipment um that goes into make

>> and the equipment um that goes into make that is used to make the chips.

that is used to make the chips.

that is used to make the chips. >> But we don't do that. That that's done

>> But we don't do that. That that's done

>> But we don't do that. That that's done in Taiwan is it not? So we do some of

in Taiwan is it not? So we do some of

in Taiwan is it not? So we do some of it. Um we also work with allies. So

it. Um we also work with allies. So

it. Um we also work with allies. So Japan and the Netherlands, you know, the

Japan and the Netherlands, you know, the

Japan and the Netherlands, you know, the Netherlands actually does the fanciest

Netherlands actually does the fanciest

Netherlands actually does the fanciest pieces of these equipment. We work with

pieces of these equipment. We work with

pieces of these equipment. We work with their government to say, "Hey, let's not

their government to say, "Hey, let's not

their government to say, "Hey, let's not send that stuff to China."

send that stuff to China."

send that stuff to China." >> What is it? Is that the the part where

>> What is it? Is that the the part where

>> What is it? Is that the the part where they Yeah. Stick your finger in it.

they Yeah. Stick your finger in it.

they Yeah. Stick your finger in it. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. >> That worked. It boom. Exactly. Yeah. Um

>> That worked. It boom. Exactly. Yeah. Um

>> That worked. It boom. Exactly. Yeah. Um but yeah, so we have been doing that

but yeah, so we have been doing that

but yeah, so we have been doing that kind of thing, but for military

kind of thing, but for military

kind of thing, but for military purposes, right? We're really worried

purposes, right? We're really worried

purposes, right? We're really worried about China getting hold of these super

about China getting hold of these super

about China getting hold of these super fancy chips um because it would enhance

fancy chips um because it would enhance

fancy chips um because it would enhance their military capabilities and that's

their military capabilities and that's

their military capabilities and that's why we didn't want to send it to them.

why we didn't want to send it to them.

why we didn't want to send it to them. China's doing something that's very

China's doing something that's very

China's doing something that's very different, not sending us these rare

different, not sending us these rare

different, not sending us these rare earths is

earths is

earths is >> But they did that in response.

>> But they did that in response.

>> But they did that in response. >> Yes, they did it in response.

>> Yes, they did it in response.

>> Yes, they did it in response. >> They were not doing it prior to this.

>> They were not doing it prior to this.

>> They were not doing it prior to this. >> Well, they have done it in the past.

>> Well, they have done it in the past.

>> Well, they have done it in the past. They did this back actually in in 2010

They did this back actually in in 2010

They did this back actually in in 2010 when they got mad at Japan for something

when they got mad at Japan for something

when they got mad at Japan for something at the time. But didn't Japan at that

at the time. But didn't Japan at that

at the time. But didn't Japan at that point get themselves a backlog, a

point get themselves a backlog, a

point get themselves a backlog, a stockpile of of rare earth in

stockpile of of rare earth in

stockpile of of rare earth in preparation for this type of thing? Did

preparation for this type of thing? Did

preparation for this type of thing? Did we do that before launching this trade

we do that before launching this trade

we do that before launching this trade war?

war?

war? >> Son of book. Is that in the book?

>> Son of book. Is that in the book?

>> Son of book. Is that in the book? >> Yeah. Japan Japan got hit early and they

>> Yeah. Japan Japan got hit early and they

>> Yeah. Japan Japan got hit early and they prepared, right? And so they acted uh,

prepared, right? And so they acted uh,

prepared, right? And so they acted uh, you know, in a very extreme way to

you know, in a very extreme way to

you know, in a very extreme way to reduce their reliance on on China. They

reduce their reliance on on China. They

reduce their reliance on on China. They were ahead of the game. And then when

were ahead of the game. And then when

were ahead of the game. And then when China did it to everyone else uh last

China did it to everyone else uh last

China did it to everyone else uh last year, everyone else was looking to Japan

year, everyone else was looking to Japan

year, everyone else was looking to Japan to say, "Oh, well, why didn't we do

to say, "Oh, well, why didn't we do

to say, "Oh, well, why didn't we do that?" Um, yeah.

that?" Um, yeah.

that?" Um, yeah. >> So, you're saying, if I may paraphrase,

>> So, you're saying, if I may paraphrase,

>> So, you're saying, if I may paraphrase, >> we launched a trade war uh rashly, too

>> we launched a trade war uh rashly, too

>> we launched a trade war uh rashly, too broadly, without proper preparation, and

broadly, without proper preparation, and

broadly, without proper preparation, and now find ourselves mired in uh uh an

now find ourselves mired in uh uh an

now find ourselves mired in uh uh an event that we are are now losing. This

event that we are are now losing. This

event that we are are now losing. This is just so out of character for this

is just so out of character for this

is just so out of character for this administration

that I don't know what got into them.

that I don't know what got into them.

that I don't know what got into them. >> It's almost like trade wars are like

>> It's almost like trade wars are like

>> It's almost like trade wars are like real wars, right? Logistics win real

real wars, right? Logistics win real

real wars, right? Logistics win real wars. You need to you need to

wars. You need to you need to

wars. You need to you need to >> Well, thank God we haven't launched one

>> Well, thank God we haven't launched one

>> Well, thank God we haven't launched one of those.

Let me ask you a question. Do they when

Let me ask you a question. Do they when

Let me ask you a question. Do they when you talk about it as being like a real

you talk about it as being like a real

you talk about it as being like a real war, do they war game trade? You know, I

war, do they war game trade? You know, I

war, do they war game trade? You know, I understand that they would say like if

understand that they would say like if

understand that they would say like if you attack Iran, we war game it. And

you attack Iran, we war game it. And

you attack Iran, we war game it. And most times they close the straight of

most times they close the straight of

most times they close the straight of Hormuz and that's known. Do they wargame

Hormuz and that's known. Do they wargame

Hormuz and that's known. Do they wargame trade wars? Who's they

trade wars? Who's they

trade wars? Who's they >> Illuminati? I don't know. You're the

>> Illuminati? I don't know. You're the

>> Illuminati? I don't know. You're the economist.

economist.

economist. >> Yes. So some governments absolutely are

>> Yes. So some governments absolutely are

>> Yes. So some governments absolutely are doing this, right? And so I think

doing this, right? And so I think

doing this, right? And so I think >> they plan it.

>> they plan it.

>> they plan it. >> They plan it. What might happen?

>> They plan it. What might happen?

>> They plan it. What might happen? >> What we what and and not all of it's

>> What we what and and not all of it's

>> What we what and and not all of it's just the fear of trade war and and um

just the fear of trade war and and um

just the fear of trade war and and um and real wars. I think we learned a lot

and real wars. I think we learned a lot

and real wars. I think we learned a lot of lessons during the pandemic when we

of lessons during the pandemic when we

of lessons during the pandemic when we ran short of products and we suddenly

ran short of products and we suddenly

ran short of products and we suddenly became very worried about um supply

became very worried about um supply

became very worried about um supply chain vulnerabilities, right? We we

chain vulnerabilities, right? We we

chain vulnerabilities, right? We we couldn't get access yeah to toilet paper

couldn't get access yeah to toilet paper

couldn't get access yeah to toilet paper initially, but then it became things

initially, but then it became things

initially, but then it became things like semiconductors and and all of a

like semiconductors and and all of a

like semiconductors and and all of a sudden governments all around the world

sudden governments all around the world

sudden governments all around the world started to look more closely at where

started to look more closely at where

started to look more closely at where they were getting some of these

they were getting some of these

they were getting some of these essential goods from. And they did

essential goods from. And they did

essential goods from. And they did really sophisticated data and an

really sophisticated data and an

really sophisticated data and an analytic exercises to try to figure it

analytic exercises to try to figure it

analytic exercises to try to figure it out. And then many of them have done

out. And then many of them have done

out. And then many of them have done wargaming exercises to try to figure out

wargaming exercises to try to figure out

wargaming exercises to try to figure out how to minimize a lot of those

how to minimize a lot of those

how to minimize a lot of those vulnerabilities. Um I'm not so sure that

vulnerabilities. Um I'm not so sure that

vulnerabilities. Um I'm not so sure that was the approach that this

was the approach that this

was the approach that this administration took when they came in

administration took when they came in

administration took when they came in last January.

last January.

last January. >> You're not so sure.

>> You're not so sure.

>> You're not so sure. >> So the idea though is a country is

>> So the idea though is a country is

>> So the idea though is a country is looking to assess its vulnerabilities,

looking to assess its vulnerabilities,

looking to assess its vulnerabilities, assess its strengths, and shore up those

assess its strengths, and shore up those

assess its strengths, and shore up those vulnerabilities to create resilience.

vulnerabilities to create resilience.

vulnerabilities to create resilience. Now, what we've been told is the reason

Now, what we've been told is the reason

Now, what we've been told is the reason we launched this trade war is to reverse

we launched this trade war is to reverse

we launched this trade war is to reverse the years of hollowing out

the years of hollowing out

the years of hollowing out manufacturing. But that sounds backwards

manufacturing. But that sounds backwards

manufacturing. But that sounds backwards to me. Wouldn't you use other

to me. Wouldn't you use other

to me. Wouldn't you use other methodologies to increase manufacturing

methodologies to increase manufacturing

methodologies to increase manufacturing before launching a trade war so that you

before launching a trade war so that you

before launching a trade war so that you would be more resilient in that war?

would be more resilient in that war?

would be more resilient in that war? >> Yeah, it's a it's a good it's a good

>> Yeah, it's a it's a good it's a good

>> Yeah, it's a it's a good it's a good point.

So more more positively I think you have

So more more positively I think you have

So more more positively I think you have a future ahead of you in in trade wars.

a future ahead of you in in trade wars.

a future ahead of you in in trade wars. I can launch a trade war. Let me let me

I can launch a trade war. Let me let me

I can launch a trade war. Let me let me ask you this.

ask you this.

ask you this. So we we talk about this and it's very

So we we talk about this and it's very

So we we talk about this and it's very interesting because the the analogy is

interesting because the the analogy is

interesting because the the analogy is launching a real war and we talk about

launching a real war and we talk about

launching a real war and we talk about this as it really is a form of

this as it really is a form of

this as it really is a form of nationalism.

nationalism.

nationalism. Where do corporations

Where do corporations

Where do corporations fit into the playing field in trade

fit into the playing field in trade

fit into the playing field in trade wars? Because we're talking you're going

wars? Because we're talking you're going

wars? Because we're talking you're going after China, you're going after the

after China, you're going after the

after China, you're going after the Netherlands, you're going after the EU.

Netherlands, you're going after the EU.

Netherlands, you're going after the EU. Multinational corporations have no

Multinational corporations have no

Multinational corporations have no allegiance,

allegiance,

allegiance, who are they in all this?

who are they in all this?

who are they in all this? >> So, I think multinationals are the

>> So, I think multinationals are the

>> So, I think multinationals are the soldiers in the trade war, right? You

soldiers in the trade war, right? You

soldiers in the trade war, right? You know, the governments make the policy.

know, the governments make the policy.

know, the governments make the policy. um they're the you know the commanders

um they're the you know the commanders

um they're the you know the commanders and then the companies are the ones

and then the companies are the ones

and then the companies are the ones actually implementing it right um and so

actually implementing it right um and so

actually implementing it right um and so if we think back to those

if we think back to those

if we think back to those vulnerabilities ultimately those are the

vulnerabilities ultimately those are the

vulnerabilities ultimately those are the product of companies responding to

product of companies responding to

product of companies responding to incentives right um for years it was

incentives right um for years it was

incentives right um for years it was cheap it was efficient to buy your

cheap it was efficient to buy your

cheap it was efficient to buy your components from China right that was

components from China right that was

components from China right that was where all the other manufacturing was

where all the other manufacturing was

where all the other manufacturing was and you know policy makers encouraged

and you know policy makers encouraged

and you know policy makers encouraged them um and now what we're seeing is the

them um and now what we're seeing is the

them um and now what we're seeing is the result of those companies is responding

result of those companies is responding

result of those companies is responding to those incentives and saying, "Oh,

to those incentives and saying, "Oh,

to those incentives and saying, "Oh, wait, what? That the Chinese can

wait, what? That the Chinese can

wait, what? That the Chinese can suddenly cut us off?" Um, you know, it's

suddenly cut us off?" Um, you know, it's

suddenly cut us off?" Um, you know, it's it's also, you know, US car companies

it's also, you know, US car companies

it's also, you know, US car companies that are sourcing from China, all those

that are sourcing from China, all those

that are sourcing from China, all those rare earths.

rare earths.

rare earths. Are we in a position because you said

Are we in a position because you said

Are we in a position because you said that they're the soldiers in our war. It

that they're the soldiers in our war. It

that they're the soldiers in our war. It almost appears to me that they're

almost appears to me that they're

almost appears to me that they're actually the soldiers that started the

actually the soldiers that started the

actually the soldiers that started the war because globalization and the

war because globalization and the

war because globalization and the introduction of China into the WTO and

introduction of China into the WTO and

introduction of China into the WTO and all that capital travels but labor can.

all that capital travels but labor can.

all that capital travels but labor can. So when these companies who are built in

So when these companies who are built in

So when these companies who are built in Silicon Valley or wherever it is using

Silicon Valley or wherever it is using

Silicon Valley or wherever it is using the infrastructure of the United States,

the infrastructure of the United States,

the infrastructure of the United States, Silicon Valley doesn't exist without

Silicon Valley doesn't exist without

Silicon Valley doesn't exist without taxpayer uh funding and government

taxpayer uh funding and government

taxpayer uh funding and government resources and any of those things. We

resources and any of those things. We

resources and any of those things. We built them and then they could just go

built them and then they could just go

built them and then they could just go these guys. We're going to where we

these guys. We're going to where we

these guys. We're going to where we don't have to pay our workers anything

don't have to pay our workers anything

don't have to pay our workers anything and we get to do everything and we can

and we get to do everything and we can

and we get to do everything and we can hollow out the very country that made us

hollow out the very country that made us

hollow out the very country that made us possible. And now we've got to fight a

possible. And now we've got to fight a

possible. And now we've got to fight a trade war to beg them to come back.

trade war to beg them to come back.

trade war to beg them to come back. >> This China would never put up with that,

>> This China would never put up with that,

>> This China would never put up with that, would they?

would they?

would they? >> No. Uh,

>> No. Uh,

>> No. Uh, not to go on a Jeremiah, but I don't

not to go on a Jeremiah, but I don't

not to go on a Jeremiah, but I don't understand how they're allowed to get us

understand how they're allowed to get us

understand how they're allowed to get us into this mess and then we've got to

into this mess and then we've got to

into this mess and then we've got to figure out a way to get out of it.

figure out a way to get out of it.

figure out a way to get out of it. >> Yeah. So, there's a couple things there.

>> Yeah. So, there's a couple things there.

>> Yeah. So, there's a couple things there. One, I think China has very different

One, I think China has very different

One, I think China has very different relationships with its companies than we

relationships with its companies than we

relationships with its companies than we do. And I think um one of the you know

do. And I think um one of the you know

do. And I think um one of the you know agree u the way we should think about

agree u the way we should think about

agree u the way we should think about companies these days is they're really

companies these days is they're really

companies these days is they're really not American companies. They're

not American companies. They're

not American companies. They're multinationals. They kind of they're

multinationals. They kind of they're

multinationals. They kind of they're themselves. They're their own entities

themselves. They're their own entities

themselves. They're their own entities and we can't expect them as maya put it

and we can't expect them as maya put it

and we can't expect them as maya put it to kind of fight our battles for us.

to kind of fight our battles for us.

to kind of fight our battles for us. Right? Unless you incentivize them to

Right? Unless you incentivize them to

Right? Unless you incentivize them to unless you uh create the right

unless you uh create the right

unless you uh create the right regulations to force them to behave in

regulations to force them to behave in

regulations to force them to behave in certain ways, they're just going to act

certain ways, they're just going to act

certain ways, they're just going to act in their own interests. And if that

in their own interests. And if that

in their own interests. And if that means going and getting, you know, where

means going and getting, you know, where

means going and getting, you know, where workers are cheaper, that's what they're

workers are cheaper, that's what they're

workers are cheaper, that's what they're going to do and that's where they're

going to do and that's where they're

going to do and that's where they're going to make things. Now there are some

going to make things. Now there are some

going to make things. Now there are some benefits to that though too, right? We

benefits to that though too, right? We

benefits to that though too, right? We actually do get through international

actually do get through international

actually do get through international trade access to much cheaper products

trade access to much cheaper products

trade access to much cheaper products than we would like than we would

than we would like than we would

than we would like than we would otherwise. And I think we've seen today

otherwise. And I think we've seen today

otherwise. And I think we've seen today with inflation, right? People like it

with inflation, right? People like it

with inflation, right? People like it when prices are lower than when prices

when prices are lower than when prices

when prices are lower than when prices are higher. So there are lots of

are higher. So there are lots of

are higher. So there are lots of benefits from trade that we don't

benefits from trade that we don't

benefits from trade that we don't completely want to eliminate. But I

completely want to eliminate. But I

completely want to eliminate. But I think we do need to recognize that that

think we do need to recognize that that

think we do need to recognize that that does sometimes come with costs, right?

does sometimes come with costs, right?

does sometimes come with costs, right? And especially costs for workers. And

And especially costs for workers. And

And especially costs for workers. And that has to be something that's dealt

that has to be something that's dealt

that has to be something that's dealt with as well. Why then are governments

with as well. Why then are governments

with as well. Why then are governments incentivized to always lubricate the way

incentivized to always lubricate the way

incentivized to always lubricate the way for corporations but not workers? Why

for corporations but not workers? Why

for corporations but not workers? Why are workers just always the inevitable

are workers just always the inevitable

are workers just always the inevitable victims of all of this of all of these

victims of all of this of all of these

victims of all of this of all of these shenanigans? I it it's hard to

shenanigans? I it it's hard to

shenanigans? I it it's hard to understand that the government wouldn't

understand that the government wouldn't

understand that the government wouldn't put some limitations.

put some limitations.

put some limitations. If you want access to our

If you want access to our

If you want access to our infrastructure, you can't just screw

infrastructure, you can't just screw

infrastructure, you can't just screw over our workers because it's easier.

over our workers because it's easier.

over our workers because it's easier. >> Yeah. Um, I mean, part part of it, I

>> Yeah. Um, I mean, part part of it, I

>> Yeah. Um, I mean, part part of it, I think, is the is the political process,

think, is the is the political process,

think, is the is the political process, right? In Washington, it's much easier

right? In Washington, it's much easier

right? In Washington, it's much easier for the big companies to organize and

for the big companies to organize and

for the big companies to organize and lobby and get the the, you know, the

lobby and get the the, you know, the

lobby and get the the, you know, the policies that they want, and it's much

policies that they want, and it's much

policies that they want, and it's much more difficult for workers to to do.

more difficult for workers to to do.

more difficult for workers to to do. >> So, they're not soldiers, they're

>> So, they're not soldiers, they're

>> So, they're not soldiers, they're mercenaries. They're Blackwater. They're

mercenaries. They're Blackwater. They're

mercenaries. They're Blackwater. They're really not They're not soldiers because

really not They're not soldiers because

really not They're not soldiers because soldiers take an oath to the nation that

soldiers take an oath to the nation that

soldiers take an oath to the nation that uh that birthe them.

uh that birthe them.

uh that birthe them. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And and they don't. So how in a trade

>> And and they don't. So how in a trade

>> And and they don't. So how in a trade war

war

war because how how does it figure in in a

because how how does it figure in in a

because how how does it figure in in a trade war that we can come to a better

trade war that we can come to a better

trade war that we can come to a better understanding with these corporations of

understanding with these corporations of

understanding with these corporations of what our expectations are for them?

what our expectations are for them?

what our expectations are for them? >> So I think what the Trump administration

>> So I think what the Trump administration

>> So I think what the Trump administration is trying to do is it's trying to reset

is trying to do is it's trying to reset

is trying to do is it's trying to reset that bargain, right? So, it's saying,

that bargain, right? So, it's saying,

that bargain, right? So, it's saying, you know, you you if you want to serve

you know, you you if you want to serve

you know, you you if you want to serve US customers, then you've got to operate

US customers, then you've got to operate

US customers, then you've got to operate in the US. And it's trying to do that

in the US. And it's trying to do that

in the US. And it's trying to do that with its trade tools. Um, and I think

with its trade tools. Um, and I think

with its trade tools. Um, and I think the tricky reality is that it's

the tricky reality is that it's

the tricky reality is that it's extremely hard to force these mercenary

extremely hard to force these mercenary

extremely hard to force these mercenary companies to do that, right? And so the

companies to do that, right? And so the

companies to do that, right? And so the risk is that you end up essentially

risk is that you end up essentially

risk is that you end up essentially taxing

taxing

taxing um imports, right? So, so you put up

um imports, right? So, so you put up

um imports, right? So, so you put up tariffs, you make it harder for

tariffs, you make it harder for

tariffs, you make it harder for companies to to get stuff from overseas

companies to to get stuff from overseas

companies to to get stuff from overseas and and what those companies do is they

and and what those companies do is they

and and what those companies do is they don't reshore they just do less of

don't reshore they just do less of

don't reshore they just do less of everything, right? It it can be really

everything, right? It it can be really

everything, right? It it can be really really um you know the the problem that

really um you know the the problem that

really um you know the the problem that you identify is real. The challenge is

you identify is real. The challenge is

you identify is real. The challenge is getting that trade war then to sort of

getting that trade war then to sort of

getting that trade war then to sort of solve that problem, right? that that

solve that problem, right? that that

solve that problem, right? that that link isn't

link isn't

link isn't >> well that yeah that no that's exactly it

>> well that yeah that no that's exactly it

>> well that yeah that no that's exactly it because it seems to me that well now

because it seems to me that well now

because it seems to me that well now we're going after China and the EU

we're going after China and the EU

we're going after China and the EU >> but we're still not addressing the

>> but we're still not addressing the

>> but we're still not addressing the elephant in the room which is these free

elephant in the room which is these free

elephant in the room which is these free agent mercenaries.

agent mercenaries.

agent mercenaries. So let me ask you this if this is a

So let me ask you this if this is a

So let me ask you this if this is a reasonable you know there's a lot of

reasonable you know there's a lot of

reasonable you know there's a lot of times that someone might say uh all

times that someone might say uh all

times that someone might say uh all right we'll pay for your college but you

right we'll pay for your college but you

right we'll pay for your college but you have to give us four years of service as

have to give us four years of service as

have to give us four years of service as a teacher in these certain districts.

a teacher in these certain districts.

a teacher in these certain districts. It's a way for us to get the people that

It's a way for us to get the people that

It's a way for us to get the people that we need to give them something, but to

we need to give them something, but to

we need to give them something, but to expect something in return. Is that the

expect something in return. Is that the

expect something in return. Is that the type of arrangement that can be done for

type of arrangement that can be done for

type of arrangement that can be done for the tax money and infrastructure that we

the tax money and infrastructure that we

the tax money and infrastructure that we use to build these companies?

use to build these companies?

use to build these companies? >> Yeah, I was I was just going to say

>> Yeah, I was I was just going to say

>> Yeah, I was I was just going to say there are things that I think we can do

there are things that I think we can do

there are things that I think we can do to treat corporations differently, but

to treat corporations differently, but

to treat corporations differently, but it's not through tariffs, right? So, I

it's not through tariffs, right? So, I

it's not through tariffs, right? So, I think

think

think >> not through trade wars. It's not a good

>> not through trade wars. It's not a good

>> not through trade wars. It's not a good way to do it. No, I mean there there's

way to do it. No, I mean there there's

way to do it. No, I mean there there's been efforts over the last 10 years to

been efforts over the last 10 years to

been efforts over the last 10 years to try to get global corporations to not be

try to get global corporations to not be

try to get global corporations to not be tax evaders, right? To not go to tax

tax evaders, right? To not go to tax

tax evaders, right? To not go to tax haven countries to have them pay minimum

haven countries to have them pay minimum

haven countries to have them pay minimum taxes somewhere in the world, right? I

taxes somewhere in the world, right? I

taxes somewhere in the world, right? I think that's a more effective strategy

think that's a more effective strategy

think that's a more effective strategy at trying to get these companies to

at trying to get these companies to

at trying to get these companies to behave and be, you know, kind of better

behave and be, you know, kind of better

behave and be, you know, kind of better global corporate citizens than just

global corporate citizens than just

global corporate citizens than just whacking them with with tariffs because

whacking them with with tariffs because

whacking them with with tariffs because with tariffs come all the bad things.

with tariffs come all the bad things.

with tariffs come all the bad things. Best case scenario, maybe they do bring

Best case scenario, maybe they do bring

Best case scenario, maybe they do bring some of that production back to the

some of that production back to the

some of that production back to the United States. we get more manufacturing

United States. we get more manufacturing

United States. we get more manufacturing here, but because we've made it so

here, but because we've made it so

here, but because we've made it so expensive because of tariffs for them to

expensive because of tariffs for them to

expensive because of tariffs for them to do so, they can't hire any workers and

do so, they can't hire any workers and

do so, they can't hire any workers and they just have to do it all with robots,

they just have to do it all with robots,

they just have to do it all with robots, right? And at the end of the day, how

right? And at the end of the day, how

right? And at the end of the day, how does that really help us if we're really

does that really help us if we're really

does that really help us if we're really worried about the American worker,

worried about the American worker,

worried about the American worker, >> right?

>> right?

>> right? >> You bring something up in the book that

>> You bring something up in the book that

>> You bring something up in the book that I thought was really interesting about

I thought was really interesting about

I thought was really interesting about wage insurance.

wage insurance.

wage insurance. >> And it was something because my my

>> And it was something because my my

>> And it was something because my my concern is that there are casualties in

concern is that there are casualties in

concern is that there are casualties in trade wars that are the multinationals.

trade wars that are the multinationals.

trade wars that are the multinationals. He's cutting deals with Apple and Intel

He's cutting deals with Apple and Intel

He's cutting deals with Apple and Intel and Nvidia and all these big players,

and Nvidia and all these big players,

and Nvidia and all these big players, but the people that are suffering are

but the people that are suffering are

but the people that are suffering are the small businesses in America, the

the small businesses in America, the

the small businesses in America, the people that don't like uncertainty and

people that don't like uncertainty and

people that don't like uncertainty and can't adjust their business practices to

can't adjust their business practices to

can't adjust their business practices to all these fluctuating tariffs and all

all these fluctuating tariffs and all

all these fluctuating tariffs and all these other changing things. But there's

these other changing things. But there's

these other changing things. But there's a program you mentioned called wage

a program you mentioned called wage

a program you mentioned called wage insurance and it's generally done and

insurance and it's generally done and

insurance and it's generally done and correct me if I'm wrong. If uh you lose

correct me if I'm wrong. If uh you lose

correct me if I'm wrong. If uh you lose a job in manufacturing because it was

a job in manufacturing because it was

a job in manufacturing because it was globalized and you get another job that

globalized and you get another job that

globalized and you get another job that isn't paying as well, the government

isn't paying as well, the government

isn't paying as well, the government provides you the money up to that level.

provides you the money up to that level.

provides you the money up to that level. Is is that correct?

Is is that correct?

Is is that correct? >> Yeah, I think it's a certain share of

>> Yeah, I think it's a certain share of

>> Yeah, I think it's a certain share of the difference basically. So they're

the difference basically. So they're

the difference basically. So they're they're cushioning that blow, right? So

they're cushioning that blow, right? So

they're cushioning that blow, right? So they're so you know if you've just lost

they're so you know if you've just lost

they're so you know if you've just lost your job um that means that you you have

your job um that means that you you have

your job um that means that you you have some help, right? You're not you're not

some help, right? You're not you're not

some help, right? You're not you're not um you've got a cushion, right? And so

um you've got a cushion, right? And so

um you've got a cushion, right? And so your income doesn't doesn't fall. you're

your income doesn't doesn't fall. you're

your income doesn't doesn't fall. you're also encouraged to get a new job, maybe

also encouraged to get a new job, maybe

also encouraged to get a new job, maybe you switch to a new industry, something

you switch to a new industry, something

you switch to a new industry, something that isn't so vulnerable um to all those

that isn't so vulnerable um to all those

that isn't so vulnerable um to all those globalization forces. Um and the

globalization forces. Um and the

globalization forces. Um and the evidence that we have suggests that it

evidence that we have suggests that it

evidence that we have suggests that it actually can pay for itself, which is is

actually can pay for itself, which is is

actually can pay for itself, which is is kind of never heard of um in economic

kind of never heard of um in economic

kind of never heard of um in economic policies. So I think over the last

policies. So I think over the last

policies. So I think over the last couple of decades economists have really

couple of decades economists have really

couple of decades economists have really beaten themselves up about you know um

beaten themselves up about you know um

beaten themselves up about you know um helping the people who are left behind

helping the people who are left behind

helping the people who are left behind by globalization and and because trade

by globalization and and because trade

by globalization and and because trade tools are so bad at helping the worker

tools are so bad at helping the worker

tools are so bad at helping the worker um really what you need is better you

um really what you need is better you

um really what you need is better you know worker protections including

know worker protections including

know worker protections including potentially programs like that one

potentially programs like that one

potentially programs like that one >> right so let me ask you a question which

>> right so let me ask you a question which

>> right so let me ask you a question which brings up the point what if we use that

brings up the point what if we use that

brings up the point what if we use that preemptively in our war so rather than

preemptively in our war so rather than

preemptively in our war so rather than wage insurance to help people in areas

wage insurance to help people in areas

wage insurance to help people in areas that have been hollowed out by

that have been hollowed out by

that have been hollowed out by globalization use wage insurance to go

globalization use wage insurance to go

globalization use wage insurance to go to those companies who were going to go

to those companies who were going to go

to those companies who were going to go overseas and say, "We will make up at

overseas and say, "We will make up at

overseas and say, "We will make up at least most of the difference between

least most of the difference between

least most of the difference between what you would pay your workers in China

what you would pay your workers in China

what you would pay your workers in China and what you would pay them in

and what you would pay them in

and what you would pay them in Kentucky." And we do that preemptively.

Kentucky." And we do that preemptively.

Kentucky." And we do that preemptively. So those communities never get hollowed

So those communities never get hollowed

So those communities never get hollowed out in the first place. Could that be

out in the first place. Could that be

out in the first place. Could that be part of an industry and industrial

part of an industry and industrial

part of an industry and industrial policy that actually, you know, rather

policy that actually, you know, rather

policy that actually, you know, rather than how to win a trade war, a book on,

than how to win a trade war, a book on,

than how to win a trade war, a book on, you know, the next book, the sequel, how

you know, the next book, the sequel, how

you know, the next book, the sequel, how to survive a trade war.

to survive a trade war.

to survive a trade war. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Is would that be a possible solution?

>> Is would that be a possible solution?

>> Is would that be a possible solution? >> 100%. There's there's so much more that

>> 100%. There's there's so much more that

>> 100%. There's there's so much more that we can do in terms of um you know,

we can do in terms of um you know,

we can do in terms of um you know, adjusting the tax code to make it more

adjusting the tax code to make it more

adjusting the tax code to make it more um beneficial for companies to hire

um beneficial for companies to hire

um beneficial for companies to hire workers and not have to pay sort of

workers and not have to pay sort of

workers and not have to pay sort of extraordinary you know, taxes and other

extraordinary you know, taxes and other

extraordinary you know, taxes and other burdens and things like that. And I

burdens and things like that. And I

burdens and things like that. And I think that's really what the what the

think that's really what the what the

think that's really what the what the emphasis should be on. Um,

emphasis should be on. Um,

emphasis should be on. Um, >> how does this wind down? How do how do

>> how does this wind down? How do how do

>> how does this wind down? How do how do we how do we find our way out of this?

we how do we find our way out of this?

we how do we find our way out of this? Do you do you have an idea? Have you

Do you do you have an idea? Have you

Do you do you have an idea? Have you seen this play out before?

seen this play out before?

seen this play out before? >> So, I've got a

>> So, I've got a

>> So, I've got a >> there's a lot of sighing going on here.

>> there's a lot of sighing going on here.

>> there's a lot of sighing going on here. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. >> Well, I've got a confession, right? So,

>> Well, I've got a confession, right? So,

>> Well, I've got a confession, right? So, it's an optimistic guide and in in you

it's an optimistic guide and in in you

it's an optimistic guide and in in you know, we

know, we

know, we >> what we go through some scenarios,

>> what we go through some scenarios,

>> what we go through some scenarios, right? Um, for you know, how we could

right? Um, for you know, how we could

right? Um, for you know, how we could get ourselves ourselves out of this. And

get ourselves ourselves out of this. And

get ourselves ourselves out of this. And my confession is that a lot of the the

my confession is that a lot of the the

my confession is that a lot of the the you know the happy sunlit uplands are

you know the happy sunlit uplands are

you know the happy sunlit uplands are quite a long way in the future.

quite a long way in the future.

quite a long way in the future. >> Yeah, there's a lot of 2050 in this.

>> Yeah, there's a lot of 2050 in this.

>> Yeah, there's a lot of 2050 in this. >> Yeah, it's a lot of 2050. Um and so, you

>> Yeah, it's a lot of 2050. Um and so, you

>> Yeah, it's a lot of 2050. Um and so, you know, right now I think we're a bit

know, right now I think we're a bit

know, right now I think we're a bit worried that things are going to have to

worried that things are going to have to

worried that things are going to have to get worse before we before they get

get worse before we before they get

get worse before we before they get better. But eventually, you know, it

better. But eventually, you know, it

better. But eventually, you know, it really should be possible

really should be possible

really should be possible for for us all to come together and stop

for for us all to come together and stop

for for us all to come together and stop brandishing all these trade weapons

brandishing all these trade weapons

brandishing all these trade weapons again. Look, this is optimistic. This

again. Look, this is optimistic. This

again. Look, this is optimistic. This >> No, this is very Yeah.

>> No, this is very Yeah.

>> No, this is very Yeah. >> Yeah. Eventually, we should be able to

>> Yeah. Eventually, we should be able to

>> Yeah. Eventually, we should be able to get together and and and do something

get together and and and do something

get together and and and do something that's, you know, mut mutually

that's, you know, mut mutually

that's, you know, mut mutually beneficial so we can escape the chaos.

beneficial so we can escape the chaos.

beneficial so we can escape the chaos. >> Chad,

>> Chad,

>> Chad, >> this is not going away.

>> this is not going away.

>> this is not going away. >> You you were just talking

>> You you were just talking

>> You you were just talking >> Have you guys talked TO EACH OTHER ABOUT

>> Have you guys talked TO EACH OTHER ABOUT

>> Have you guys talked TO EACH OTHER ABOUT THIS?

THIS?

THIS? >> YEAH, I'm the optimistic one in the book

>> YEAH, I'm the optimistic one in the book

>> YEAH, I'm the optimistic one in the book actually. She's the pepsimistic. No, the

actually. She's the pepsimistic. No, the

actually. She's the pepsimistic. No, the issue is not going away. You just gave

issue is not going away. You just gave

issue is not going away. You just gave all this great advice to graduates,

all this great advice to graduates,

all this great advice to graduates, right? Um, saddle up.

Fantastic.

Fantastic.

Fantastic. Uh, thank you both very much for coming

Uh, thank you both very much for coming

Uh, thank you both very much for coming by. How to win a trade war. May 26

by. How to win a trade war. May 26

by. How to win a trade war. May 26 games with Chad Bone.