Original subtitles

My first child by him, daughter, what I saw with her was she would not let

me change her diapers. I just could not pry her legs apart, and she was afraid

of her father. And he would take them in the bedroom and lock the door, and they

would scream. I would have to break the door down and physically fight him.

Court -appointed psychiatrists that have been doing evaluations for 12 years for

this judge said that I was a suitable parent and the doctor was a sexually

deviant schizoid.

He refused to listen to what the, or at least abide by what the psychiatrist had

to say, and I assume then he gave permanent custody to your husband?

Permanent custody of two. This psychiatrist also gave testimony that

meaning the doctor, was incapable of having relationships with females

of his childlike nature. And this judge gives two little baby girls

to this man. I went to court. My children were prepared now. They're 10

old. They can verbalize. They were prepared to talk to this judge.

I showed the judge pictures of them black and blue, and the judge says,

I'm just a country judge. I don't interview children.

Same judge.

Same judge. Sent those kids back. So now my kids are alone with a

stepmother addict who's taking them around to bars, sleeping with known

in front of my children.

The judge refused to sign an order saying that I could take my children

with me even though their father's whereabouts were unknown.

Devin Weber tells her personal story of tragedy and triumph right now

on Alternative Views.

This edition of Alternative View is going to be very disturbing, but it

be, in the final run, uplifting as well.

It's a very complex story of Devin Weber, who's gone through hell for many

years.

It's a story that includes sexual molestation of children, incest,

police corruption, political corruption, corruption of the medical community,

abuse by...

power structure in a small town.

But it's also an uplifting story about how a woman can go through terrible

tragedy in her life and come out okay.

Devin, you've told your story on several of the top talk shows in the

country, on television and all.

But we want to let you...

You were with other people at the time, and your time was hacked up by

commercials and all this. We want you to just tell your own story now about how

you found out that your husband was sexually abusing your children and then

happened as a result of all this.

When did you find out? When did it appear to you that he was sexually

your children?

Well, I really started seeing it.

For sure, when I had my second little baby. So my first child by him,

what I saw with her was she would not let me change her diapers.

How old was she?

Well, this was ever since she was like three months old. And by the time she

a year old, I had had another baby.

And I just could not pry her legs apart. And she was afraid of her father.

And he kept saying that I was an overprotective mother.

And he kept sending me to psychiatrists saying that I was crazy. So I started

sharing this with the psychiatrist.

And by the time I had my second little girl, and she just, I mean, I couldn't,

you couldn't pry a little baby, three -month -old baby's legs apart.

I started realizing that something was wrong. And he would take them in the

bedroom and lock the door, and they would scream it. I would have to break

door down.

uh fight him so i was starting to see it and the psychiatrist was helping me see

it right about the time that the divorce and custody case started i was just

starting to be able to see it and guess what the profession of her husband was

a very prominent medical doctor in a small town in ohio near dayton

Actually, he was an MD and also a specialist. So he had had additional

to become a family practice specialist.

Well, how long did this... Now, they were so young. How long did you live

him knowing this?

Well, I had only lived with him... My little girl was almost two years old

I lost her in the custody case. So just from like one to two, I'd had two

children very closely together.

Now, there was a matter of drug problem in the family, too. What was that?

Well, I had realized I had come from a poor background and had always worked

had been on ADC but was always a working mother. And I'd had a previous child

that came into this marriage. And it was very quickly into the marriage that I

realized this doctor was on drugs. And he was on Valium and he was on...

large amounts of antidepressants, and he was on Ritalin for a high, and then he

would take downers, and he was a pot smoker chronically.

And so we used to have a lot of arguments about that, but the problem

was one of the things that how he manipulated me would be to find medical

problems in me, and he had diagnosed that he had heard a clicking in my jaw.

So he had sent me to a colleague of his who...

Started to treat the jaw and gave me a severe jaw problem where I had to go to

the hospital and have traction.

But I was in pain, so this is how my husband introduced me to drugs.

So he had me on codeine and he had me on large amounts of Valium.

And he would tell me that Valium was a non -addicting drug and I could take 50

or 60, 10 milligrams and it wouldn't bother me.

Right about that time, I was starting to need that much Valium to live with this

person. And what he did was he got me addicted. I didn't know anything about

addictions because I'd never been on drugs.

And then he gave me the key to the drug unit at his facility. So I was sneaking

there getting drugs before I even realized I was an addict. Then he cut my

supply off, and I had a grandma seizure.

And I was in critical condition in an intensive care unit. I almost died

I found out that Valium is a highly addictive drug.

I guess he was trying to kill me.

Well, at what point then did you file for divorce?

Well, then right when that happened, I came home from the hospital.

Doctors that were in practice with him called me up, and they said they knew

I had a seizure. It was because of him.

And they said that they were going to have a meeting with him saying that he

psychiatric problems. They were seeing it in his practice, and they wanted to

move me out for a few days just to make sure the children and I were safe while

they confronted him with if he didn't get help, they'd have to get rid of him.

But what happened is the schizoid that he is,

Doesn't respond to, you know, rational behavior modification. He went, he got

very irrational and angry and sued me for a divorce two days after I got out

the hospital saying that I was crazy from my recent seizure.

And the problem was when his colleagues knew they couldn't manage him, they

protected him. So all the support that I thought I had, they all betrayed me and

lied and protected him because they didn't want anybody to know they had a

sexually deviant.

weirdo in their private practice so you went before a judge then for a divorce

hearing what was that like well i went into this it was just so bizarre i it

five minutes long and i went in and this was the first time i met this judge and

he just told me that he wanted me out of my home by the end of the evening and

he put my children in foster homes

All three of them, the little babies, my one was a year and my other was two,

and my son was about eight at the time, for no reason. And his reason said was

that my husband was a doctor and he needed a telephone.

So after five minutes, I lost my children, my home, every belonging, and

completely homeless.

Well, they said that you were an unfit mother because the doctor, this

upstanding gentleman in the community, said you were crazy.

Well, you know, the bizarre thing is they never gave me a reason.

They never gave a reason other than they just wanted this thing to settle down a

little bit. They never gave a reason, and I...

just a year ago, was looking through testimony, and the clerk of court's

to think, well, maybe there was so much happening, I forgot the reason. And all

it states in the documents is that the judge ordered these children in a foster

home. It doesn't give a reason. And the five minutes, that wasn't a real

complete divorce hearing, was it? No, it was like a preliminary hearing.

Before the trial, which was about a year later, that was eight and a half hours

long. Okay, well, he kicked you out of your house. Did he give you any separate

maintenance or alimony or something?

Well, they gave me, they said I could have $50 a week. But you have to

understand, I had no job. I was a housewife. I have no supportive family.

I didn't really know a lot of people in this community, and the attorney that I

had representing me told me that if I wanted my children, I had to leave that

city. I had to get out of town.

And I said, I don't want to leave the city. My children are here. He said, if

wanted custody, I had to leave town. I bought into it because my husband, the

doctor, said if I ever tried to leave him, he would take the kids.

That was a fear that I had, so I was a victim. I did anything this attorney had

said, and he at the time was the prosecutor of that town, of that city,

private attorney.

Oh, he had both jobs.

Sometimes there's collusion among lawyers in a case like this. Was there

case, too? I found that out eight months into it after my attorney, the

prosecutor, was abusing me. I was trying to tell him, this man is sexually

abusing my kids, and this prosecutor would use profanity with me, saying, who

was I?

having sex with to make it nice and he would say you better come up with money

for me or I'm gonna quit you and you're gonna lose your kids this guy would talk

to me and I didn't even have a home I would be in a phone booth saying please

help my children I'm telling you he is abusing my kids and he was the

but he wouldn't even look into it no he wouldn't did you have any counseling

yourself to help you over this well I stayed with the psychiatrist that I was

go into at the time all this happened and I tried to tell him that you know I

think that my attorney is in on this because he's being cruel to me and he's

doing anything to protect me and he's told me to get out of town and I don't

understand this and I told him about the five -minute hearing and my

psychiatrist didn't believe me so when he didn't believe me And you know your

children are being abused, and you're homeless. I mean, I had to live with,

like, slime outlaws. I had to live there. I had no experience to be with

criminal -type people. I was living in a rural community. I was a doctor's wife.

And now I'm homeless.

And the psychiatrist kept saying, well, you know, this just doesn't happen.

You know, our system is going to take care of you. So I got very sick. I

having some psychotic -type symptoms because if when no one hears you and

your own doctor says it isn't happening, you start thinking, well, maybe it

isn't happening.

And so I would go to see the children in the foster home, and by then the

doctor... was giving the foster parent all free medical.

Your husband, the doctor. Yeah, my husband, the doctor, was taking care of

foster parent, giving her all free medical care, giving her all free drugs.

So I knew what was happening there.

Was she treating the children all right?

She was treating my girls all right, but she wasn't treating my son because...

I now know this. The doctor was trying to say that it was my son that was

sexually abusing the kids to cover. And so she was being mean to him.

I see. Well, you had a second divorce hearing. I mean, the divorce hearing

proper. And custody. That was eight and a half hours long.

How much longer after the first five hours? It was a good...

Ten months. I had a long time to regress, and I had to adjust to a

I had no money. I had to learn how to live with people that rob houses.

I had to learn to live pimped. That was the only place where you could find a

stay. I didn't know anybody.

You know, I didn't know anybody. So at first I went with this woman, and I

cleaned her house for her for a room. But I kept getting sicker. And when

living with somebody that's sick, you know, I couldn't take care of myself. So

she threw me out, and I was just drifting. And I went into this, like,

bar thing, and some woman said I could live with her. And when you start

sick, you start losing your...

perception of things. You can't think things through when you're desperate.

So I had to adjust to learning how to live with street, hardcore people that

have no values, that have no morals, plus fight a custody case.

So I had to get another attorney, a well -known attorney, and I found him

because the gal I was living with, he got her off from murder.

This is the kind of people I was living with. So I go to this guy.

I have no money.

He helps me see that my other attorney has been in on it because we could pick

up that he was feeding the doctor's attorney all the information.

About you? About me, yes. Oh, boy.

Now, what happened, what did the judge do? The same judge, right?

Yeah. And what did he do on the second hearing?

Well, that was eight and a half hours long.

I had to subpoena about half of that town that I was living in because they

given testimony of things that were negative about me because, you know, my

doctor husband had had me followed. He had wiretapped my telephone.

He put little babies up to the phone having them cry. And when you know your

children are being tortured and you hear a baby cry on the phone, you get sick.

I mean, you just get really sick.

I kept pulling myself together.

I graduated from school. I got a job, so I was halfway stable by the time my

trial came up, and I was living in a low -income housing project.

The judge appointed a court -appointed psychiatrist to examine both of us. And

the court -appointed psychiatrist that had been doing evaluations for 12 years

for this judge said that I was a suitable parent and the doctor was a

deviant schizoid.

My goodness. So he believed your story.

Well, he believed it because he tested me out.

You know, I mean, they do these psychiatric tests. four -hour

both of us and I mean it surprised me because I mean I would have been the

to tell you I was crazy at that point because I felt crazy but he said it was

because of him it was because of what this man was doing to me and that I felt

that desperateness because no one would help me I mean children's services

wouldn't help me in that community I went to them they said they can't go

against a doctor or the judge so when your options run out You start wearing

that. But in the trial, not one negative thing came out about me. And the judge

tried to keep the psychiatrist's evaluation out by refusing to accept his

deposition. So I had to subpoena this psychiatrist in from a city that was

about three hours away from where this county was and pay for all the time that

he missed just to get his testimony in. And then the judge locked it up.

So there's not public record to these evaluations.

Oh, my gosh. So he refused to listen to what the, or at least abide by what the

psychiatrist had to say, and I assume then he gave... permanent custody to

husband? He gave permanent custody of two. This psychiatrist also gave

that this man, meaning the doctor, was incapable of having relationships with

females because of his childlike nature. And this judge gives two little baby

girls to this man.

I did get my son, but that's because I had my son from a previous marriage.

What kind of treatment?

So he had custody of the children. Was he remarried by this time?

Oh, yeah.

These type of people, they have patterns.

I mean, they have absolute patterns. And he was already engaged by the custody

trial time and got married.

Since then, there's been a drama with that marriage and the children. But

already he had another woman to present. Here's this healthy wife I have now.

And I not only lost my children, that this guy didn't take me back into court

and try to take all my legal rights away from me so that I could never see my

kids again.

And did the abuse continue after he got remarried?

With the children or with me? I mean, he kept abusing me.

Well, these type of people are so out of control that initially he gained some

control by having another woman that would care for the children.

But he's a deviant person, so his abuse became more covert.

But he was still abusing the children because I would go to pick up my kids,

the only way they had to communicate with me at that age was like banging

head.

Yeah. And so there wasn't any way they could really let you know, what about

this? Because they couldn't talk.

They were just babies, you know. So that, you'll never forget that.

Do you want to stop for a while?

Okay.

What about your son? Did he see anything that he could tell you about? He

started, he was able to talk.

years later, and he would say that when I wasn't there, this doctor would call

him a homosexual, and he would beat him and things like that. But I never saw

that when I was living there because, you know, you're so afraid of this man.

mean, you are so afraid of him.

And then through the years, my children now, they start getting older.

So they go from two years old to now they're eight and ten, and I went back

court because my little girl was at my house for a visit, and she was changing

her clothes, and her whole body was black and blue.

And the stepmother had beat her and thrown her down some steps, so I kept

didn't return her, and I got another attorney, and he asked for an ex parte

order, which I received.

the cleaning woman that the the stepmother and doctor had had called me

that they're on drugs there's guns going off get these children out of here and

so i did and so the judge signed an ex parte order i went to court my children

were prepared now they're 10 years old they can verbalize they were prepared to

talk to this judge I showed the judge pictures of them black and blue, and the

judge says, well, I'm just a country judge. I don't interview children.

Same judge.

Same judge sent those kids back.

Can you imagine their faces when they finally tell the truth, and then they're

sent back?

Was there continuing sexual abuse by the father?

The children would act out things like that.

After he got them, before he had another woman living in there with him, when I

would have them on visits, they went from how they would never spread their

to when I changed their diapers, they would take their legs and throw it back

over their head and hold their vaginas apart.

Oh, my God. So I knew that he was doing something to these kids.

called 800 numbers and what they'll tell you is go to your local you have to go

to the children's service number i mean i tried all that stuff that people say

to do and meantime i'm getting very sick trying to deal with this and so i had

to take a break just to get healthy again and i ended up going from low

housing home homeless and i i knew that the only way to save the kids is i had

to become reputable

I had to have credibility, and that's what I did. I started a business, became

speaker. I got some national success.

And then two years ago, I went public with it myself to get my

children back at ages 11 and 12.

At what point did you suspect more dope activity?

and narcotic activity within the family of the doctor and the stepmother?

Well, I suspected it because of the things that the children were saying.

And the kids, see, children, they learn to own this than to be helpless. So the

children, he controlled them like he would put them in a room after they'd

home from me and play music and force them to sing the song that he wanted

to sing at his funeral if they choose to live with their mom.

So my kids, they stopped talking, but every once in a while they'd bring a

little friend down. The little friend would say, Alicia, did you tell your

about finding Betsy dead?

And I said, what?

Alicia said, well, mommy, I got up to go to school, and Betsy was dead on the

floor, and daddy had to give her mouth -to -mouth, and we had to call the

ambulance. She overdosed.

What was he giving them?

She was given...

This was the stepmother. She was taking all the drugs. Now he's turned her into

an addict like he tried to do with me.

So I tried to get the children out of there. This judge, I got another

The judge refused to sign an ex parte order. I found out that the doctor had

been shipped to a drug treatment center. So now my kids are alone with a

stepmother addict who's taking them around to bars.

sleeping with known dealers in front of my children.

The judge refused to sign an order saying that I could take my children

with me even though their father's whereabouts were unknown, using the

that I've had to deal with Devin Weber for years, and I'm sick of it.

Well, how is it that your husband was sent off for drug treatment? Apparently

his drug activity was found out.

Well, there...

The hospital that he was working at, there was missing drugs, large amount of

missing drugs. Now, you have to understand, this doctor went from like a

well -built person down to about 100 pounds. He looked like a corpse walking.

And no one at this hospital confronted this man.

I know this because I went and confronted the hospital people myself.

But what happened after this missing drugs, they connected it with this

and shipped them away to clean them up and to keep the story quiet.

Meantime, what I had to do, because the judge wouldn't give me the children, I

had to go in and file with the sheriff's department, you know, a criminal

suit saying that I believe there's illegal drugs going on in the house.

brought in a detective.

who found out that there was drug trafficking and busted both the doctor

wife.

Because, see, I had to play a hunch.

My thinking was, I'll never get custody of these kids. I gave up on that. This

judge isn't going to give them to me.

But if I could get them on a criminal charge and they had to go to prison, how

could this judge not give me my kids then? But it turned out that the...

This detective, who is the hero, interviewed the children for three and a

hours, heard horror stories.

Like what?

Stories like the doctor was doing pelvics on them. He would give them

say that if they cried, he'd take the needle and break it off in their arms.

He took their cat and tried to kill it in front of it by stuffing it in a

sweeper.

He threw firecrackers at them in the house.

They showed bullet holes in the walls where he was stoned and shooting his gun

off and just missed where my daughter was coming out of the bathroom. They

an Uzi machine gun out of this house.

And this judge, he knew all of this stuff.

Did they find drugs in the house? Oh, yeah.

The wife was busted while trafficking.

She was caught right doing it. There was no question about it.

The real problem comes in. Now we got the doctor busted and the wife busted,

it goes to a prosecutor's office.

And this is a different prosecutor now. I wasn't familiar with this guy. He

refuses to indict them.

This thing sat there for a year, and the detectives kept on it and on it, and

the prosecutor refused to indict the doctor, and nobody could figure out why.

said it wasn't conflict of interest, and that's how...

I got involved.

I had to go talk to this prosecutor and say, why aren't you prosecuting? And

then I had to do my own investigative work, and I had to bring TV cameras in

from the city that I lived in to try to expose these people. And this guy still

would not prosecute this drug trafficking doctor.

He shipped the case to another county.

That county refused to prosecute, shipped it back.

to dark county dark county shipped it back to shelby county so it really

like they were protecting the doctor i mean that's what it looked like and so i

found in the ohio revised code it's a 30905 and it's it's a code and it says

as a tax paying citizen if you feel a prosecutor is in gross neglect of duty

this code will enable you to file suit which i did so i went public and and

filed charges as a citizen against this prosecutor and i pulled court records

and i found over 40 criminal cases that got including aggravated attempted

murder and drug trafficking and child molesting that these these outlaws

completely free because this prosecutor refused to prosecute within time stature

and no other reason And the judge didn't look into it? The judge signed all of

the case dismisses. The same judge signed all these case dismisses. See,

indictment, a prosecutor has 250 days to take that to trial.

If he doesn't do it within that time frame, they walk free, no matter how

hideous the crime is. So I have frustrated cops.

starting to call me their hero because I'm exposing all of this. My life was

indirectly threatened, the detective on my case.

I had to do stakeouts and watch the house to get the mother subpoenaed. I

do all of this to get my kids out of that environment, which I did.

I finally got them with no thanks to this judge. My children are with me.

They've been determined victims of crime by the Ohio Supreme Court.

It's an automatic, mandatory.

that the court sends the prosecutor a report of this decision. The prosecutor

still does not indict this doctor.

Your ex -husband?

Yeah, the ex -husband. I didn't understand that.

You know, this sounds so much like either movies or novels or short stories

read about small towns where the local power structure is so tight with each

other, including the...

legal system the corporate system the the whole judicial system and the media

where they just protect each other and they don't let anything mess that up

and of course the doctors are considered prominent members of the local power

structure the judges and then the prosecutors and the sheriffs or whatever

you know they do the bidding of these people is that the feel that you get

a step further, it's not just like the good old boys club.

In this particular case, I knew that what I experienced in that courtroom

just a bad deal. It was evil. And since I've been investigating street buzzes,

the judge does cocaine, the first attorney that I told you I had that was

prosecutor just got kicked out of the Elks Club for profanity.

That stuff, can you imagine being too bad for the Elks Club? Yeah, really.

But the point that I'm making is that these players within this judicial

are inadequate, deviant personalities, not just scratching each other's backs.

Who knows what the covert dealings are? Because any judge that would give

little babies to a known pedophile...

Which brings up an interesting point. When I did all my own investigating and

hit the papers, people would write me their stories.

And I interviewed a former detective who told me that years ago at a

high school, there was a teacher by the same last name as this judge who was

accused of molesting one of his students.

The community was outraged because there was a cover -up because this teacher,

who has the same last name as this judge, his mother was in a political

and they got it off. And people were even trying to get 60 Minutes to come in

and expose these people because there was a molested child.

Well, I found out through the detective that this judge was teaching at this

high school during that time before he became an attorney.

So, you know, I mean, I don't know.

That's the missing link. We know that they're protecting him. The best that I

was able to accomplish was I went to the hospital director and said, you know,

this guy comes in here 90 pounds. You never confront the doctor. Didn't you

to know if he had a terminal illness even?

He's been practicing medicine.

They called me up. The president of the board of directors of this hospital

called me up.

said, what would it take from that hospital to get me to shut up?

I said, you know, mister, you insult my integrity because if you have one

practicing pedophile, I will speak out not just for my children, but any child

with any nearness to that hospital. Next thing I know, they buy the doctor's

medical community.

Send her out and throw him out of town. Of course, they write headlines.

This hospital, doctor leaving to help the community.

They're going to buy the practice. Well, the funny thing is his practice sat

empty for over 10 years before he took it.

They never bought it then. It's just cover -up. It's cover -up after cover

I mean, the doctor, your ex -husband, moved out of town. Well, he was thrown

of town. And he can still practice? Did they remove his license to practice?

Because we could not get an indictment on this guy, a detective from

the Ohio Pharmaceutical Board on a federal level came all the way down to

County and walked in the...

clerk of courts to to personally thank me for my work because he said without

they wouldn't even have gotten this far so we forced this other county that dart

county sent it to to um uh force a plea bargain so seven

criminal felonies by the doctor was plea bargain down to like three criminal

misdemeanors and all we got was his license to prescribe medicine taken

Then his three criminal misdemeanors went through this same judge who, of

course, which we knew, would give him treatment in lieu of conviction.

He dropped the trafficking charges on the wife and sentenced her to like a

in jail and gave her job duty where all she had to do was sleep in jail. The

judge let her out from like 10 in the morning until 10 at night.

for her job and she wasn't even working anywhere i couldn't get press up there

just recently the prosecutor that i went after he had to hire the best attorney

in ohio to go after little me i mean i didn't know anything about being an

attorney but i scared the heck out of this prosecutor of course he got my case

dismissed but just within the last three weeks i found out that he has been

shipped off to a treatment center for drug abuse yeah Drug alcohol.

So they were all doing it. Yeah, so I go up to the little town newspaper.

Have you heard anything about the prosecutor? And he goes, the reporter

he goes, you mean that he's been shipped off to a treatment center in Wisconsin?

And I said, yeah, that's exactly what I mean. Are you going to print it?

And he says,

well, no, why would I? It's not local news. The treatment center is in another

state. That's how, by the way, I ended up here. Thank you to you.

I can share it because, again, I was frustrated.

Here this is going on.

No one wants to hear this.

And it's still going on. I mean, three days before I came down here, it's still

going on. It's still going on. Years, for ten years, this has been happening.

It's unbelievable.

Well, you have your little girls now, and they're, what, teenagers now? How

are they?

14 and 15.

And how have they come through all this? They must be disturbed.

Well, yeah, they're disturbed.

In what way? How does this show up? Well, just like when they were maybe 10

11 and living with him, my daughter had a birthday party, slumber party with 20

little girls. And the doctor pulls his penis out and funded 20 little girls.

Every year now, for the two years that I have my daughter on her birthday, see,

children will block all this. She's depressed, helpless, hopeless.

I have to get her to doctors. She feels like there's things going on wrong with

her body, and it's him.

A mother called me that was their babysitter, said that he pulled out his

in front of her daughter.

And so I said, will you talk?

Will you talk? And she said, yes. So I send my detective over there. And guess

what? She says, well, I'm afraid because he's a doctor.

So, I mean, the guy's a pedophile.

He's a pedophile.

Do either of your children date boys yet?

Not yet.

They're getting that puberty. We go to my husband that I'm married to. We go to

family therapy. We go to all these therapies. You know, my children are.

They get massage therapy.

Victims of crime have been very good and helped me pay for the compensation of

some of this. My children had to have their jaws, treatment for their jaws

because of holding in anger. They had temporal mandibular joint syndrome, so

they had severe pain.

My husband and I have gotten them off of all drugs.

When they'd come to our house, he'd have codeine and everything packed.

He treated the kids chronically.

And then he would say that, you know, I was making them sick. Well, he was

making them sick. Because my kids are hardly sick now. We've done major work

that. But the horror is I only have temporary custody.

Still? Yeah, because I have to go to that judge.

See, to get custody, I have to go where the case was in that county. And so what

if this judge says, well, he's had treatment?

So all the expense and everything has been on me.

I don't take him to court for even child support because I'd have to go through

this judge.

So, I mean, I only have temporary custody. So you still could lose your

back to this? I still could lose my children if I had to go through that

system, yes.

Well, how have you survived all this? Tell us the story of you now. Well, I

guess it took...

when i was homeless and drifting and a little crazy i was so broken and so

stripped i was so sick that just to brush my teeth took so much energy my

bled i was raped i was exposed to things that i never knew existed but there was

this voice inside of me that said if i do survive this i don't want to be

because i've not done anything wrong here and this could ruin me and i was

to go in And take responsibility that I chose this evil man. And that is

something about me. And I was able to connect with my own childhood sexual

and torture when I was an infant. But see, I had blocked it. You were abused

your own father. By my father, yes. And so I took responsibility for my pain.

and um became healthier and in fact i even went back and paid the 90 bucks to

sit in front of that psychiatrist just to tell him that i was right and that

telling me this didn't happen i became a very sick person and he said i know

that now and he does a lot better work for other patients but when did you find

out at what point did you become aware that you had been abused by your father

or were you always aware of it I really wasn't aware to the extent of torture.

I wasn't aware in that I was so young. I had some memory of violent, very

violent sexual abuse.

My father, when I was six, had me out in a cottage in the woods, and I was very

afraid of the dark, and he made me sleep down in the...

living room by a window and he went upstairs so the only way he could get

me was to come down the stairs about an hour later there was this monster

banging at the window and at the door and it broke the door in and this

viciously was strangling me and i screamed and was about to lose

and this monster took off his mask and it was my father he had a nylon stocking

on his uh face and he said you know mom is little baby so it was daddy can i

sleep with you i mean this was my life so it made sense that i would choose an

evil sexually molesting person because i was working that through which i own i

own that and i uh my own healing i have helped hundreds of thousands of people

across the country by sharing what I found out about myself. But I had to see

that I hated myself, and that's why I was a victim.

You know, now I'm on the Sex Offenders Committee at courthouses. I train cops

and prosecutors and social workers.

I train therapists how to teach them to work with survivors and perpetrators.

You know, I have a purpose. So, I mean, that's the light at the end of this.

horrible dark tunnel but it's people have no idea that in this

universe that there's deviance in these power positions

these are people that come from these dysfunctional sexually abusive families

they run our country and people don't know this and it's the most horrifying

reality

just that reality alone if i'd come from a normal healthy family would have

wiped me out because you believe that good are protected and that is not true

that is not true and i urge people to if they know in their hearts that they're

innocent never never give up how would you advise a family a parent

what signs would they look for if there was sexual abuse and their children

Well, the younger the child, you'll see a lot of withdrawal or severe acting

out. If you see little kids fondling themselves for long periods or sticking

things in one another, I saw these behaviors with my children. Little

do not know how to do these kinds of sexual behaviors. Little at what age?

Any age. I do training so that I can work with infants that have been

An infant that has been molested will tell you...

They'll have post -traumatic stress. If they were molested in a crib, they'll

scream. This was my children. At three months old, if they heard his car pulled

up, they screamed.

They know. But we're not trained to listen. We're not trained to listen to

children. But children that have not gone through puberty yet do not sexually

act out extensively.

So if you have a child that's masturbating a lot when they're little,

these little kids...

will do exactly what they're taught. A three -year -old can be taught to

sexually perform if they're molested over and over and over. That's what my

daughter was doing when I changed her diapers. She was taught to do that. And

those are signs.

Those are signs. And children, when they can't talk... We'll tell you through

behaviors, and you have to listen. Children that can talk, even with all

education, children will not tell because they are shamed. They are

perpetrator, all of his defenses that enable him to do that sift right into

openness of this wounded, open, innocent child, and they wear every ounce of

shame that the perpetrator should experience, and kids won't tell.

They won't tell. My kids right now, they'll jump up and down and tell you

he never did one thing to them.

They'll lie. They'll protect them because they're not ready to deal with

shame. That's the part that hurts, to see that they're going to be victims

probably their entire life because of this. Their entire life they will have.

Because sexual abuse doesn't just affect you in the bedroom. It affects you at

work. It affects you in relationships. It affects you in every aspect of your

life, everywhere.

Are there special places where people can get therapy for this? I've noticed

here in Austin, for instance, there are organizations that have therapy sessions

for children who are victims of incest.

Well, the sad reality is very few professional people have been trained to

with the sexually abused. So what I...

highly encourage is that you know who your child's working with. You know that

they specialize in this area, that they're trained in this area.

It's just now coming out, the sexual abuse, and it's a completely different

of abuse. It's unlike any other to heal from. It's the most devastating,

traumatic abuse there is.

For me, a part of my becoming psychotic was working through the child in me that

became psychotic to hide the abuse. So I had to create these dramas in my life

where I had the star role in the horror flick just to strip me down of my

defenses that I could feel because I was armor.

It took homeless.

It took losing my kids.

So think of these little children that are molested as little ones. One out of

three females are molested before they're 18 years old. And that's just

reported cases.

One out of five males.

I just worked with a man. A nurse in the hospital molested him when he was a

child. It's everywhere.

It's unbelievable.

And our system is in denial.

They don't want to see this.

And to see it, they have to see their own.

So you really want to make sure you know who the people are with your children.

Right before I came here, a case broke out in Dayton. A teacher in a Catholic

school, which scared me because I send my children to private schools, was

molesting the kids. This happened right as I'm sitting here. This just broke in

Dayton, Ohio.

Well, usually we hear about men molesting little girls and little boys.

Do women do this? Women do it as well. They really do. Yes, they do. Yes, they

do. It must be to a much lesser extent, isn't it?

Not really. Really? See, the tragedy is that 99 % of a sexual

deviant perpetrator tells you that this person has been done themselves.

So they're acting out their own sexual abuse by identifying with their

perpetrator instead of being a victim.

So they feel the kid deserves it.

Because they don't want to look at the pain in the child because they'd have to

see their own sexual abuse.

So you have perpetrators that are in denial. They have no idea that they were

ever sexually abused.

So it could be a teacher.

It could be the coach.

It could be the doctor that you go to.

It could be the first psychiatrist that my doctor husband sent me to.

He started hitting on me when I was eight months pregnant.

using everything that I ever told him about my history. When I said, what? I

wouldn't want to be with you. This guy was the president of the psychiatric

association in that state.

I mean, it happens all the time.

You mentioned a while ago that children wouldn't, if they are sticking things in

each other or exploring.

What about the children who...

quote, play doctor, unquote, just among themselves, not with adults. Is this

considered... If they're playing doctor to the extent that they're really

probing, it depends on the age of that child, they have been taught that.

Bedwetting.

Bedwetting with little girls is a sign of sexual abuse.

Bedwetting.

Frequent...

Urine infections, vaginitis in children. When I got my child, she had

infections, vaginitis. The doctor that tried to do a pelvic, my daughter

panicked so bad that they said that they'd have to put her to sleep.

You know, infections are a sign of it. Children will have frequent infections,

nightmares. They will have nightmares.

As a child, myself as a child, I had blisters all over my eyes.

trying to block out that abuse.

When I was a little girl like three, I would get in a corner and scream bloody

murder, don't get near me.

Little three -year -olds don't behave this way.

To your father?

To my grandmother told me this. My grandmother is the only person that ever

validated me.

Of course, she didn't know my dad was doing that, but she knew something was

wrong with me.

Do you think that you're...

girls will be able to break that cycle, which seems to repeat itself over and

over. Yeah, I am going to hope for that. I'm not going to ever give up hope on

that. I think if they're treated, I make sure that my children, even when they

have physical complaints, I work with their doctors to make sure that their

medical doctors know how to work with a sexually abused child to rule out what

is somatic from the incest and what is really...

needing to be treated because they do not believe they're normal.

So I've been blessed because you don't get near my child unless I know your

history, unless I know you're healthy.

And that's how I pull from hope. And their doctors have been wonderful.

Because my children panic in medical treatment because he abused them

He'd be stoned.

Give them shots. And God only knows what he did to them. One time he took my

daughter's picture and put it on a post and made her stand there while he took a

gun and shot her picture and said, this is what I really want to do to you.

Now, how is a kid supposed to deal with this? They throw up.

They bang their heads on walls because they're not able to verbalize this. But

my doctor was, the professionals are working with them and they're becoming

more relaxed.

The doctor gave her a physical because my little girl didn't think she was

normal. And he said her name, and he says, you look like a healthy. And then

when he got to normal, he goes, normal.

A 14 -year -old girl to me, and she jumped off. She says, Mommy, my doctor

I'm normal.

And everybody was hugging her. I mean, she really had that fear. My husband

helps me with them, and we've been working with these kids for years with

headaches and their somatic complaints.

switching them from drugs to herbal vitamins and things like that. So we've

working with them for a long time.

Problem is, this was chronic for 10 years.

They had to live with this.

So I've only had them for two.

Plus, I get them right when they're going through puberty. So I have two

problems with that.

How do they relate to your new husband?

They really, really like him.

They went through a period when they... See, when you get an abused child, love

doesn't just take care of that abuse. The safety of love allows them to act

That's the dynamic that occurs because they're not able to act out their fear

and rage.

So first they acted out their rage towards me. Then they started getting

paranoid, like, would my husband come in their room? And they still have to

have, even in the summer, they can't have windows open and blinds open. They

think their dad's looking in on them. My little girl said that, well, he didn't

get me because I used to hold the shower doors tight.

You know, that kind of stuff.

But now, I say that we're a pretty healthy, dysfunctional family.

I mean, you know, we get help because it's hard to see your own child's abuse

when that child's attacking you. I mean, you can only take so much, and you get

angry. So he comes to family therapy with me, and they can talk to him, and

get their little backs tickled. They beat me out of all of that, but, you

I don't get in on that anymore.

You know, he's been really... See, he's had to live with me all these years of

me being in and out of court. This doctor would refuse to let me see my

saying that my boxer dog was giving them strep throat.

Oh, my God. I couldn't take it to court because of the judge.

Have you discussed your sexual abuse as a child with your children?

They know just...

briefly, when they go into shame issues, I'm able to say that I understand how

that... I'll say things like, I know my dad did really bad things to me, but I

don't tell him what. My children don't know that I was homeless and raped. You

know, you can't tell your children. When my daughter was, I guess she was five,

she told me, she told...

My son, and he came down and told me that she said a little boy, she let a

little boy at school, the F word her.

And she was five. And so I went to her and I said, what did you tell, you know,

your brother? And she said, I told him that little Johnny at school, I let him.

And she said the F word. And I said back to her, do you know what that means?

And she proceeded to tell me.

So I had to be like a therapist and work with her saying, well, honey.

You know, it's better if you have little friends. But, you know, that's your

private part. You don't have to let them touch you. And then when she's not in

the room, I would just go crazy.

But you can't show your kids that because you've got to keep it separate.

Healthy people don't work their stuff out. Now, what they'll see is a mom when

I'm out fighting crime and being Batwoman, they'll see me being grouchy.

see me, you know, being wiped out.

And, you know, one day.

If they want to know, I'll tell them. But we validate. I validate them. But

that reason, I can't be their healer. I'm taken somewhere else.

You do a lot of speaking and counseling and all now. How would somebody get in

contact with you if they wanted to do so? Well, they could write me or call

You have a phone number and address that you can give us?

Can I give it now? It would be area code 513 -461

-7720.

And what about your address?

That would be 332 Jones Street.

That's Dayton, Ohio, 45410.

45410. Well, thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me, Frank. I

appreciate it.

I'm sorry it was painful to recall and relive all these things, but maybe it

will help somebody else too. I hope so. Thank you.

And that's the end of another Alternative Views.

We'd like to thank our crew, our director Brian Lynch, our camera people

Henderson and Susan Ginsberg, and our audio man was Jack Hopper.

Alternative Views is a presentation of the Alternative Information Network, P

.O. Box 7279, Austin, Texas, 78713.

If you'd like to write to us, that's our address.

Goodbye.