All language subtitles for Aternative Views 126 Dr Tom Philpott - Boy for Sale - Archive dot org

The subject of Alternative Use News
Magazine for the evening is boy

prostitution, the widespread use and
abuse of male children for sexual

Some of the language in the program may
be offensive to some people.

Admittedly, the whole subject is
offensive.

In 1979, there was a call boy ring
operated out of New York City, which had

phone hookups with... Houston, Atlanta,
Los Angeles, New Orleans, Washington, D

.C.

And that callboy ring had a list of 10
,000 clients who could call and with a

credit card purchase a boy.

Hello. Hello, this is credit card number
06789.

I'd like to make an order, please. Go
ahead.

I'm looking for a young male, blonde
hair, blue eyes.

Body hair or no body hair?

Thick body hair, please. What age?

Ten to twelve.

Butch or femme?

Butch, please.

What is your address?

I'm at the Houston Marriott Hotel, room
313.

Wire me $200 now by credit card and have
$100 in cash for the boy. He'll be

there in 30 minutes. Thank you. Thank
you.

In Houston, I give the figure based on,
I think, Prudent calculations

that upwards of 350 boys a year are
killed deliberately because of this.

more die of drug overuse, malnutrition,
of suicide. The national toll

per year is in the thousands every year.
Kids die violently because of

this. It's closely attached to the major
financial, commercial, industrial...

educational institutions of our society.

It's run by the same people who run
those.

It's frequented by the same people who
occupy management positions in those.

It's not the mafia.

It's an adjunct of clean business.

It's serving the most respectable people
we have in our society, the people who

are the elite.

Prostitution of male children tonight on
Alternative Views News Magazine.

Tonight's program on alternative views
is one which you may, quite frankly,

not want to watch.

It's going to be very disturbing.

The subject is very controversial, even
disgusting.

The language in some of them may be
offensive to some people.

But we're going to find out tonight
about the senior side.

of the American power structure, and
maybe something about male homo sapien.

Because the subject of tonight's program
is boys for sale, boy prostitution.

Where these kids come from, how they're
used, how they're abused, tortured,

killed, used sexually, and who is it
that's doing it?

We find some very shocking things are
happening.

We have with us Tom Philpott, the
history department at the University of

is a special guest. And in addition,
Mark McKinnon, former editor of the

Texan at the university.

Tom has been doing a lot of research on
the subject, and Mark was involved in

some articles, very controversial
articles, a couple of years ago.

But before we have our program on boy
prostitution, here are some news

Well, I guess most of you saw the movie
The Day After.

William F. Buckley, in his magnificent
mind, calls it sheer

humbuggery and a result of junk thought.

And then he includes with this, Buckley,
I don't know, he's just getting senile

or what. I remember, oh,

a few months ago, he wrote an article
saying that...

If Nicaragua continues to do what they
do, we're going to declare war on them

and their backers, Cuba and the Soviet
Union. Go to World War III over

Nicaragua. Well, anyway, he talks about
the nuclear war this way.

Remember this, folks. A full -scale
nuclear war would mean about 100 million

Americans dead.

Those 100 million are going to die one
of these days without nuclear

and they will in almost any case die
more painfully than what the hell. Let's

have World War III.

Yeah, he is really obscene.

I think his mind got frozen in the 1950s
during the McCarthy period where he

literally believed that there was a
monolithic totalitarian evil in the

the Soviet Union, and everything they do
is bad. Everything we do to counter

this is good, including, you know, war
and militarism and even nuclear

war would be justified against this
evil. It's almost sort of a very

Christian view of this Manichean.

religious sect in the fourth century
that saw a battle between Satan and the

Lord as the primary forces of history.

And that's Buckley's mindset.

Well, there are a lot of religious nuts
now who are welcoming the nuclear

holocaust because that would bring on
the second coming of Jesus.

So let's don't have any of this nuclear
-free stuff.

Well, they're even trying to say that
nuclear war is okay in England. The

Ministry of Defense in England has a PR
propaganda.

race going. They're distributing
pamphlets, and for a while they were

with J. Walter Thompson, the big
American advertising firm, for a $1 .5

contract to produce slick commercials
praising nuclear bombs and saying, hey,

can't let people bully us around. We
need these things.

Mother Jones quoted somebody from the
Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament there,

Monsignor Bruce Kent. He was saying if
there's any factor...

that got the people in England upset.

It was our own government civil defense
program telling people to protect

themselves against nuclear war by
staying at home, by hiding under kitchen

tables, and whitewashing their windows.

A recent poll, by the way, indicates
that one half of the British people are

opposed to these additional missiles
being brought into the British Isles.

As are a growing number of the Germans.
There's been several articles about the

growing resistance in Germany to the
implementation of these missiles.

In Germany, there was back in September,
first thing I've heard about

it, the U .S. soldiers had conducted a
mass mock burial exercise called...

Well, I'll save the name until later.
Anyway, the exercise trained soldiers

to use bulldozers to prepare for mass
graves in the case of nuclear war in

Europe. It's the first time, according
to Army Stars and Stripes, that this

would occur. This came from Counterspy
magazine.

And the code name for this exercise, it
was Confident Enterprise.

Wow, obscene. There's a very interesting
article in these times that puts all of

the new Cold War in a very good
perspective.

And that is that the Reagan
administration has claimed that its

spending on defense, its building up of
the nuclear arsenal, the spending on

these military weapons, putting these
weapon systems in Europe is all

because Reagan claims over the last five
or six years the Russians have been

increasing their spending on weapons,
their developments of new weapons,

we've been decreasing our spending and
have fallen behind the Soviet Union.

Well, this article in Indies Times
indicates that this is total nonsense

on complete myths and lies.

First of all, they point out that
military spending under the Carter years

not decrease as Reagan claimed, but
increased 2 .95 % from 1977

through 1981.

Moreover, the CIA has just come out with
a report on Soviet economic trends and

policy development.

that claims that Soviet spending for
military weapons, etc., has declined

the last year, since 1976, and that
their spending for new weapons and their

development of systems has been much
lower than the increases in American

spending. And the CIA, in their report,
has documented this in great detail.

Moreover, the Reagan administration has
been claiming that one of the priorities

of the Andropov administration in the
Soviet Union is also to develop new

systems to increase military spending,
etc.

Whereas the CIA report also indicates
that that is complete nonsense, that

has been a drop of spending for military
means under a drop -off who has been

dedicating the majority of his new
spending programs to non -military,

expenditures, etc.

So that it's total nonsense.

that the Soviets are spending more on
money on weapons systems and we're

spending less.

In fact, during the same period, the
Reagan administration has increased

military spending 16 .7 % annually,
which is the biggest buildup of

military defense spending in American
history.

And, in fact, the defense budget that
was passed by the Reagan administration

for the coming year is the highest that
has ever been spent in U .S. history.

No less than $249 .8 billion will be
spent on military spending

by the Reagan administration.

next year, which will include new weapon
systems, such as the MX nuclear

missile, the B -1 bombers, and other
billion -dollar programs for all of

new missile systems. In fact, the only
military systems that the

Reagan administration didn't get from
Congress was a nerve gas program.

Twice the Congress voted it down. Twice
the Senate approved it on a tie vote

with George Bush.

casting the tie -breaking vote in both
cases. But the Senate House Conference

Committee killed the nerve gas program
both times. But otherwise, Reagan got

the defensemen he wanted. It's curious
that this CIA report came out because

years ago, from the alternative press,
you remember, we carried stories with

just this such analysis.

And the fact that the CIA seems to
rediscover this two years later is

curious. And the fact that they would
come out with this right now is even

curious. Reagan just plays fast and
loose with his statistics and facts.

literally the biggest liar that we've
ever seen in the White House. There have

been some good ones.

Well, along this same line, the Reagan
administration, of course, still clings

to the zero option.

for Europe, meaning the Soviets have to
dismantle all or most of their existing

intermediate -range nuclear missiles.

And in return, we will not deploy or use
the Pershing II or cruise missiles.

Well, the counter -spy quoted a new
Congressional Research

Service study which showed that the
bases for...

The Reagan administration's claims that
they needed to do this are all false.

Mainly the fact they were saying, the
Soviets, of course, say, well, we've got

to include the British and French
missiles in here.

And Reagan says, no, we don't need to do
this because the French and British

forces are insignificant when compared
to the Soviet arsenal.

But this new congressional study says
that isn't true. Britain has four

submarines with 16, six warhead missiles
each.

France has five nuclear submarines with
16 multiple warheads each and 18 land

-based missiles and 34 Mirage planes,
which can drop a load on the Soviet

And they're working up to 1 ,500
warheads. And since it only takes a

destroy the country, well, that's a
plenty.

It's not too... Well, it's
understandable. The Soviets would be a

about that.

Reagan also says that the British and
French forces are independent and

uncommitted. The U .S. doesn't have any
control over it. But this congressional

study says, no, that's not true. The
British forces are going right along

and planned in with those of the U .S.
And even the French, although they do

have their own control of it, they are
signatory to some pacts which indicate

that they will coordinate their military
power with those of the other European

countries in the U .S.

Reagan also says the British and French
arms are strategic and not theater

nuclear weapons. Well, when they had the
SALT negotiations, the U .S. was saying

it was just the opposite. So it depends
on what negotiations they're using, they

label them the other way.

And that's our news segment this
evening. Now let's turn to our main

prostitution.

Well, I'm drained already after talking
to you people for a couple of days about

this subject. I'm absolutely shocked,
and I feel degraded, too, as a member of

the human race.

Tom, can you first give a case history,
just kind of a typical case history, and

then we'll talk in greater detail about
what happened.

All right. I can tell you the biography
of a little kid from a hollow in West

Virginia.

whose mom and dad went to Houston to
find work.

They thought that Houston was the
capital of opportunity in America.

The dad went out there to get a job, a
low -level job with an oil company,

brought the mother, then sent for little
Jimmy and his little brother.

Jimmy and his brother got to Houston on
a Greyhound bus, and his

dad and mom failed to pick him up.

How old were they?

Jimmy at that time was 12 and his little
brother was 6.

They spent the night in the terminal,
Jimmy fending off the advances of a

of men.

And then the dad came to pick them up
the next morning. The parents had both

gotten drunk and forgotten to pick up
the kids.

The boys went to live with their
parents.

The parents both had severe drinking
problems. The dad lost his job.

The mother got killed in a car wreck.
The little boy was severely injured.

Jimmy dropped out of school to try to
hustle, was his word, money to help keep

the family, what was left of it,
together.

The dad died choking in his own vomit
after a drinking bout.

And Jimmy was the sole support of
himself and his little brother.

The rent was coming round.

And Jimmy had no money. And then a
neighbor kid said to him, you can get

just for watching me play with a man.

And Jimmy said, that's queer.

And his friend said, it's not queer if
the guy does it to you.

If you just let it happen and all you
have to do is watch.

Jimmy did it.

Then the man offered Jimmy $25 to let
the man play with Jimmy.

And Jimmy took it, so he had $35.

And then he got introduced into the
routine.

Jimmy was little, only 12, and he was
small for his age.

And the circuit he went on in Houston
was not the main one, which is Montrose.

He went to a place nearby, an arcade
called Funland.

The way that worked was the boys would
stand by the machines, and a man would

come by if the man offered quarters.

The boy would take them, and then the
man and the boy would go off.

Jimmy became a professional prostitute
at the age of 12.

He survived in that capacity until he
was 14.

Was he working on his own, or was he
part of an organization? He was not part

an organization. He was what they called
the Farm League, and he was taking care

of his little brother.

His brother got killed in a car wreck
when he was driving with some people.

And Jimmy then was desolate and almost
destitute. He used the last money

he had to bury his brother.

He did not want to let his last
surviving relative, his grandpa in West

Virginia, know the way things had gone.

A reporter in Houston last saw Jimmy
across the street from Funland.

And a man who used to...

pay boys for sex, then told this
reporter, I know that boy.

He told a man who's a friend of mine
that one time he was having sex with

little boy, and then he realized that
the boy was crying, and he looked up and

saw that the boy was sucking his own
thumb, and at that point he had to break

off the encounter.

The journalist believes that this
reformed man who used to use boys was...

his own best friend, the boy who had
been having sex with Jimmy.

Jimmy disappeared.

His body was later found mutilated.

And his grandfather was notified.

The police then told the grandpa in a
very cruel way that

the grandpa shouldn't try to get a loan
from the city of Houston. It would have

cost $500.

To ship the body back? To ship the body
to West Virginia because the boy was

nothing but a harbor whore or worse.

And the grandpa died shortly thereafter.

The whole family is dead now.

Jimmy was a typical kid.

He wasn't looking for this life. He
found it. He needed some means of

He took what he could get, and he came
to grief and met his death.

Houston is...

possibly the worst city in the United
States for the misuse of lost and

boys or homeless defenseless boys.

Probably 350 or more boys are killed
every year in Houston. About Houston? I

would say I hear about Houston that it
is the worst.

that children are brought to Houston
from places such as New Orleans or from

other parts of the Southwest.

Their life is sad.

It's 100 % sad. They get up, you know,
one or two or three during the day, and

they go out and they have to earn money,
and they're treated bad.

They eat only when they're fed by
somebody else, and they never get

anything. They always have to return
sexual favors for it. They sometimes get

beaten. They get robbed. They get
pushed.

You know, the police abuse them.
Everybody abuses them. One young man got

a car. By young man, I mean the age of
probably 15, maybe 16.

He got out of the car, and he was just
badly beaten. I mean, there's no two

about it. He looked right out, and his
face was black and blue, and blood

out of his nose, and his lip was fat,
and he couldn't walk very well, and he

sick to his stomach in the bushes.

He was just very badly beaten.

Evidently, he had got either a bad trip
or the man was on S &M or something and

just kind of like shoved him out of the
car as he went around the corner.

Opened the door for him and said, get
out.

Any of them ever want to hurt you?

That's what I watch out for.

Do you watch out for them?

Yeah. How do you tell?

You know, when they start to jump now.

What, jump on you?

Yeah, if they do, I'll be ready because
I'll be watching every time.

What do you be doing then?

I'd be laying down on the bed, looking
so great, just watching.

Well, if they start to jump on you, what
can you do?

I always carry a pocket knife or
something like that. I don't know if

hurt me or not.

You know, I just watch out for them,
just in case they do start.

Nine out of ten, I'm weird.

I mean, they get, you know... There was
one guy that picked me up in Atlanta,

and he just said, you know, he wanted
somebody to go out and have a few beers

when they would smoke a joint.

And we got over there and...

I was drinking this beer, and all of a
sudden, you know, it went like that. I

couldn't even see straight. My eyes were
rolling back.

And then the room started spinning, and
I was out of it. When I came around, he

had me tied up in the basement and all
that. I was way up like this, you know.

And I couldn't even move. Did he tie it
up? Yeah, it stretched.

What was he doing to you?

Nothing. He was just sitting there with
this whip looking like he was going to

hit me with it.

He just threatened me a lot, and I was
sitting there crying. I was scared to

death. You know, because the worst they
could do is kill me. That interview was

conducted several months ago in Houston,
Texas.

Investigators now fear that the 15 -year
-old is dead.

The body of a young man found
ritualistically dismembered in Missouri

to be his.

I woke up and he was clamping handcuffs
on me.

I was laying on my stomach.

The other two were on their stomach and
they were handcuffed and their feet were

tied. The most shocking and horrifying
result of older men having sex with

boys is the story of Dean Corll in
Houston, Texas, and more recently John

in Chicago.

In Houston, Corll lured or had brought
to his home at least 27 young boys, all

under the age of 17.

The boys were sexually assaulted, then
killed.

In Houston, I give the figure based on,
I think, Prudent calculations

that upwards of 350 boys a year are
killed deliberately because of this.

more die of drug overuse, malnutrition,
of suicide.

The national toll per year is in the
thousands. Every year, kids die

violently because of this. In the first
three months of this year,

1981.

30 boys were found dead in Houston.

None of them was called a homicide.

They were found to be dead of exposure,
dead of causes undetermined,

dead of massive internal bleeding, as in
the case of one child under 10

who was found naked in a Dempsey
dumpster with his colon and his rectum

apart.

He was called not a homicide, but a
victim of massive internal injury. He

fist raped. Yes. What is the sort of
psychic roots of the nature of this

phenomenon?

I've been studying this phenomenon since
the spring of 1979, and to the best of

my knowledge, most men who seek sex from
boys are not

homosexuals. To the extent that they
have active sex lives at the peer level,

they are heterosexual.

Many of them have no peer sex at all.

There are gay people who are what we
call pederasts, that is, men who lust

children, especially boys.

But it appears to be the case that most
such men are not gay, that their

attraction is for young...

defenseless children especially boys
because they're more exotic more

but it is not a matter of gay

rights as advocated by practically
anybody this is a

much different sort of phenomenon the
reason that the gay community usually

scorns any investigation of the subject
is that they know that the

average person in the public will blame
homosexuals and homosexuality for the

phenomenon, regardless of what facts are
presented.

Well, this is not just a sexual thing in
the way we talk about it. It's a power

trip and it's also a sadistic thing
because these kids are tortured and

The kind of individuals involved are
down the line almost in every instance

the cases I've investigated.

Men who are very powerful, usually very
wealthy, and usually administrate

control over a large number of people.

Wealthy Houstonians can and do obtain
boys in a most discreet manner.

It's gotten a little more sophisticated
now. It's gotten more expensive.

Higher prices are paid.

And it's gotten a little more
sophisticated in terms of...

I think the types of people who are into
it, types of adults who are into it,

professional people.

Houston professional people?

Yeah, yeah.

Soliciting boys?

Oh, sure.

You know, you can be a millionaire in
Houston. Yeah.

You have people here that are so wealthy
that they can't let anybody know what

they're doing that they're willing to
pay $200, $300, $400 a night, you know,

for one of these boys not to say
anything about them.

You've got judges, doctors, lawyers,
politicians advertising people.

Involved in?

In buying young people, if it's for an
hour, for a night, or for a month, or

a year.

They actually have white slavery in this
country. It's a fact.

In Houston, right now, it's going on.
Tom, is there any evidence that there's

any connection with organized crime?

Obviously, with other forms of
prostitution that we know about, there

connections. The mafia has always
utilized prostitution as one of the

its organization and sources of its
income. Is there any connection here

has been revealed with organized crime?

Yes. When we're talking about 400 kids
on the street between 2 and 4 in the

morning in a city like Houston,

There's very little organization. There
may be a runner or a pimp who's trying

to squeeze the boys a little, but
there's no big businessman running a

sophisticated operation.

But when there is a bookstore with 40
stalls, there's often a stable of boys.

That's fairly good -sized business, and
there's bigger business than that.

That's the callboy operations like this
one we described with the 10 ,000

customers. That's big business. It's
crime. It's organized, but it's not the

mafia. It's the pillars of our society.

There is big business, organized crime.
It's sophisticated. It's closely

attached to the major financial,
commercial, industrial, educational

institutions of our society.

It's run by the same people who run
those. It's frequented by the same

who occupy management positions in
those. It's not the mafia.

It's an adjunct of clean business.

It's serving the most respectable people
we have in our society, the people who

are the elite.

I assume you can't name names at this
particular time, but... Not if people

haven't been apprehended yet. Right,
okay.

Are senators involved?

U .S. senators and congressmen, do you
suppose?

Let me give you some information here.
Now, this is stuff that has come out

of...

newspaper clippings. It has gotten far
enough to get in the newspaper, even if

it hasn't been followed up.

This was potentially the biggest case of
all.

That's the one in New Orleans? Yes. A
New Orleans Boy Scout troop was busted

actually being a cowboy ring of boy
prostitutes.

The man who was the leader of the Boy
Scout troop was given 75 years in

and then he offered to tell a story.

The story he told was that the
congressional delegations from two

which was Louisiana and one of which
bordered Louisiana, and, as he put it,

entire hierarchy of one of the states,
as far as top political posts, were all

involved as customers of the little
boys.

And he said he was willing to name all
the names.

That was a UPI story of 26 November
1979, and he never talked again.

He said, he's still in jail, he said
there was one U .S. senator and many

congressmen. Weren't there a couple
actually right -wing, new right

representatives, congressmen in
Washington who were actually

found guilty of molesting... Doug, I
wish you

were right.

Congressman Robert Bauman...

was apprehended in February of 1980,
having sex with a 16 -year -old boy.

For some reason, no charges were brought
until September 1980.

At that point, the FBI and the U .S.
Attorney made an agreement to keep all

details of the account out of public
records.

The charges were dropped on Bauman's
promise that he would take an alcoholic

abuse treatment program.

He continued in office, and he ran for
re -election.

He was defeated, but he said he would go
on to run again.

William F. Buckley is one of his closest
friends. They were co -founders of

Young Americans for Freedom and the
American Conservative Union.

The way Buckley put it was this.

It transpires that during alcoholic
bouts, he engages in homosexual acts.

He went on to say there was a complaint
filed by a 16 -year -old boy.

Then he went on to say Bauman should
resign from Congress and resign from the

positions in conservative organizations
because he was an embarrassment.

Bauman never went to trial.

He didn't actually go to a formal
pretrial hearing either. Then there was

Texas congressman, Wyatt, who was
caught.

Well, actually, I take it back. He was
not caught. A juvenile reported that

Wyatt had forced sex on him.

Charges were never filed. That's a
quote.

Charges were never filed despite the
fact that the boy had filed a complaint.

And Wyatt said he was going to run again
when it was published in the Austin

paper that the complaint was not that he
was drunk driving, but that he had

forced sex on a juvenile male. He said
he wouldn't run again.

He was already in the alcohol
rehabilitation program, so there was no

pretrial hearing, no charges.

Wasn't there another wing of tour
guides, boys as tour guides for

Well, you may be referring to the case
of Representative Hinson, a Republican

from Mississippi, who was found having
sex with somebody in the men's room of

the Longworth House office building.

There are conflicting accounts.

According to one account, he was having
sex with a minor. According to another

account, he was having sex with an
adult.

He said he was innocent, and he agreed
to undergo alcohol abuse treatment,

and he was not charged.

The charges were dropped.

Well, what was the story about the young
boys being tour guides for the Capitol?

And this was also part of...

a little boy sex ring, and also some of
it resulted in campaign contributions.

I read that in an article. That has to
do with the state of Texas, as a matter

of fact.

And here's a way we can tell that story.
This is one you can't tell.

Well, this is one we can't. It got into
the newspaper. Yeah, I saw it in the

newspaper. But then it disappeared.

What appeared in the newspaper was a
boy's home run by a Texas state

representative. was being investigated
for charge of abuse of the boys.

The state representative said that there
was no abuse. He claimed that his place

could not be investigated by the state
because it was private, like that of

Reverend Roloff.

The story died and didn't appear in the
press anymore.

The lead...

that produced the initial story was that
that representative took campaign

contributions, and then the
contributors, as a reward, got to have

boys in the home.

And that he did this for more than
himself, but for other representatives.

man is out of the state legislature.

So we've talked about legislators,
congressmen.

A senator.

Senators.

People in the...

the highest ranks of government at the
state level. Now, are these just

aberrations, or is this part of a
widespread, ongoing thing?

I think it's very widespread.

And not just among powerful politicians.
We've talked about politicians.

But it seems to be the case that in all
high -powered professions,

Corporations now we're talking about,
too.

Corporations, medicine, law, even the
university, not necessarily

professions with bloated salaries, but
prestige, some power,

influence, and above all, pressure.

The men involved are susceptible to this
kind of deviation.

I'm working right now, you know, like,
just, you know, with the corporation.

What's that? How does that work?

Well, when their executives or their
business people are in town,

they're sent to our apartment, and we
entertain them while they're here.

Okay, what's that entertainment usually
involved?

What do they usually demand, or what do
they want?

Well, it's all kinds of sex and
perversions. There's no two alike. I've

that.

everyone's in for something different.
So I can't really stereotype the

All the men want different things?

Yeah, right.

But we're usually in the passive side.

And they're usually the dominant player.

What does he do at Grady Hospital?

He's a doctor.

We've talked about those men who have
achieved power and also among those men

who wanted it but didn't get it.

Men like poor Gacy in Chicago who killed
at least 33 boys.

He was not a well -to -do man, but he
was a joiner. He paid high dues to join

men's clubs.

He paid $1 ,000 to join the president's
club so he could have dinner with Jimmy

Carter. Instead, he had dinner with Mrs.
Carter and had his picture taken with

her. He was an upward striver.

He killed at least 33 boys.

He offered in his defense that he could
not identify any of the 33 boys by face

or by name because he had had sex.

with 1 ,500 different boys in the
previous five years, 300 different kids

year, and most of them, as he said, were
prostitutes.

He didn't snatch them off the street. He
went out and bought their services, and

then he coerced them, as this lawyer in
Washington says no one ever does.

He made them captives, and he killed
them.

What about women and the positions of
power in government? You don't find

involved in that.

Well, you don't find many women involved
in positions of power in the American

corporate system. Maybe that explains
what appears to be the fact.

Women don't do this to little girls.

Heterosexual women, homosexual women
don't do this to little girls. Or little

boys. Or little boys.

It happens, but it's not common, it's
not ordinary, it's not a phenomenon.

It isn't a threat.

If you have a little girl and you have
an adult female friend, you needn't have

any apprehension.

But if you have little kids who are
boys, they are in more danger than the

little girls today.

Why do you think there's so much
violence caught up in this?

Investigations in other cities have
shown that boys 13, 14, even younger,

coerced into prostitution with threats
of physical violence and are sometimes

shipped across state lines, shipped to
the older adult men who desire young

for sexual acts.

Occasionally, these boys' episodes with
their older clients ends in physical

violence. There are men who seek young
boys to torture and sometimes to kill.

This phenomenon is not unique to
America.

It may not even be unique to advanced
industrial urban societies.

In the other places where it occurs,
though, it doesn't seem to be attended

high level of mayhemic violence.

In the United States, it is.

In Islamic countries, for instance,
prostitution with boys is a standard.

I've been in Morocco and Algeria and
observed this, and yet I've never heard

stories of violence being involved. In
other words, it's an erotic phenomenon

opposed to this power or psychological.

Well, there are those who would have us
believe that that is the case in

America.

Here, for instance, is an article
written by a law professor in

.C. who was general counsel to the
Metropolitan Police Department. This

was written in 1981.

He says, if the boys are victims, it is
largely in the technical sense.

It is more accurate to characterize them
as entrepreneurs who, by and large,

understand their own motivations. They
do it for money, for drugs, for

and perhaps for some as a crude gambit
for emotional sustenance. But unlike

teenage girl prostitutes, they do not
act out of fear.

There is no coerced recruitment, no
whippings, no incarcerations in their

and no sweet -talking pimps with
Cadillacs.

That's not what I have found.

So you think that's false, that
Washington police chief? I think it's

I think it's a deliberate falsehood.

Well, let's talk about, we haven't
talked about the proliferation in the

States of this. We've talked about a few
individual cases. How widespread is it,

and what are the numbers we're talking
about?

Well, we know this, for instance. This
is a standard.

Half a million kids run away or are
thrown out of homes every year in the

States, and the majority of them are
boys.

Another thing that the President's
Commission on Obscenity found, this is

commission that Richard Nixon
repudiated, it mentioned in passing

Child pornography was a phenomenon of
the abuse of children and then went on

say that for every female prostitute of
any age in the United States, there are

nine boys underage who are prostitutes.

That is a finding which is debatable and
is a speculation.

But it went unnoticed.

I think, though, that if you get in a
car and prowl the streets of the

of this...

practice, Houston, New Orleans, Atlanta,
Chicago, New York, Los Angeles,

and to a much lesser extent, Austin, our
state capital, and Washington, the

nation's capital, you'll find that boys
are the ones hustling more than the

women. Mark, some of the research that
you did in Austin here that started off

your involvement in this issue indicated
that there was a possible ring of

homosexual boys in Austin.

Could you tell some of the facts on this
case?

Well, my interest in this whole issue
originated when, as a reporter for the

Daily Texan, we heard through the
grapevine that a pharmacist here in town

been busted.

And I don't remember the original
charge.

Abuse of a boy in a home. I guess it was
abuse of a boy in a halfway house.

Well, the thing that interested us about
the case...

was that the police had later found in
his home an index file of anywhere from

200 to 500 names of young boys around
the Travis County area and counties

accompanying Travis County.

And it had their names, phone numbers,
parents' names, in many cases, sexual

statistics on the personnel, height,
age, weight.

and in some cases preferences.

And that sounded like an astounding
thing to us, that there should be

traveling around, and what he did was he
would hang out at high schools and

offer the drugs that he had available as
he was a pharmacist in exchange for

sexual favors.

Well, we followed that up, and somewhere
down the line of judicial

scrutiny, the entire evidence was lost.

or disappeared or was unable to be
retracted and there it

complicates from there but that's a
that's how we got well Anderson his name

Anderson Robert Anderson he was found
guilty of one charge and sentenced to

years in prison and then he skipped He
was still not incarcerated. He skipped,

and he's never been found again.

Was there any indication that he was
involved with other men who were

participating in these favors? In other
words, what would the point of him

keeping these cards be unless there was
some sort of business or organization?

He was an agent, and he had quantities
of drugs.

Mark didn't mention that he listed next
to the name of each boy that boy's

personal drug preference.

And he also had a very large quantity of
muscle relaxants to administer to boys

to make sex easier for the men.

Not only that, but there was also the
names of several well -known

businessmen in the Texas community that,

for obvious reasons, were contacts.

Okay, what about, you talked about Boy
Scout groups and boys' homes.

What about these?

Well, a boys' home is an ideal place

if you want to get in on an operation
and get hold of some vulnerable kids.

an ideal place to do it. In San Antonio
this August, two men who were supposed

to be Catholic priests were arrested for
sodomizing 50 boys.

ages 3 1⁄2 to 14.

That year, and they had had several
hundred boys in the past three years,

were having sex with the boys on a
regular basis. That was why they

the home, to get at little boys.

In Dallas, a place was closed down the
year before.

In Houston, Jimmy was in a home in
Houston for a while, and he was raped by

caretaker. That place was closed down.

In Houston, there are only 42 beds
available in all the homes for boys in

whole city.

And one of the homes that's still open
was previously investigated and arrests

were made because of attacks on the
boys.

It's very common.

It's very hard to trust any place that
presents itself as a home for boys.

And one of the tragedies of that is when
somebody opens one that is clean, like

Covenant House in New York City,
operated by Father Bruce Ritter, the

thing that happens is there's a smear
campaign against it, and everybody says,

it's dirty, too.

So if there's a clean one, it gets a bad
name.

The object is to make it impossible to
tell the good ones from the bad ones.

I guess the Boy Scout people have this
problem, too. Yes.

We've mentioned a couple of Boy Scout
rings. That doesn't mean that the Boy

Scouts are an organized group to feed
pederasts.

What about judges and police?

Judges and police are in high -pressure
professions, too. To my knowledge, the

police are involved less as
practitioners of this than the other

professions, by far.

I should have mentioned the clergy, with
all regret. The clergy is highly

susceptible to this. Real priests, not
just bogus priests like those.

San Antonio. You mentioned some of the
worst phenomena here, these mass murders

in Houston and in Chicago.

Does this connect with Atlanta in any
way? There's been, as you know, mass

murders of all these black children in
Atlanta.

And as I recall, the FBI, when they
initially got in the case, after they

this a federal case, Reagan, or I guess
it was Bush, went down there.

The FBI came out with a report that
indicated that there may be sex abuse of

some sort in the death of these
children. Then it seemed to be pretty

dropped after an initial play in the
media. Do you have any comments on that?

Yes. The first indications that leaked
out that maybe the kids who were

victimized in Atlanta, murdered, were
actually boy prostitutes

who went to the people in the cars to
make a contact, came out in February.

And then National Cable News Network and
ABC News

tried to mention this as a possibility.
It's a very delicate thing.

It's almost an insult and affront to the
black community to say the angels of

Atlanta were really prostitutes.

Unless you believe, as I do, and unlike
that law professor I quoted, unless you

believe they're victims.

They're not responsible for what is
happening. They are being used and

But the public reaction was chilly, so
the networks dropped it. They revived it

in April and dropped it again. I have
headlines here, quotations from news

broadcasts about the boys possibly being
hustlers and that fellow who has been

arrested and indicted being a
photographer procurer.

The mothers of the first ten kids, those
women who went public and talked about

their predicament, is one who said to
the wire services in an interview, I'm

afraid my son was involved in
prostitution. I'm afraid that that's

killed. I'm afraid it's the link to the
whole series of murders. And no

newspaper in America printed the wire
service copy.

Isn't part of this whole phenomenon
dealt with a business of...

child pornography, where pictures are
taken of these acts, films are made. And

this Wayne Williams we know is a
photographer, and we know he has

electronics. He's done radio work, he's
done recording work. So might he be

involved in a film organization, and
indeed possibly even a snuff

There's been some evidence about snuff
films where people are literally killed.

on film and that these are distributed,
the films. So is there some possibility

that that might be involved?

I think it's possible and I think it's
likely. We're talking about an ongoing

case and I think we have to be very
careful about what we say.

In Houston, I have seen myself big vans
that don't have cabs on them. And I've

seen young kids go into the van and not
emerge for an hour or an hour and a

half. And sometimes with the door open,
I've seen photographic equipment inside.

A raid was made on a mansion in Houston,
although the newspapers in Houston

referred to it as a flat.

It was a mansion.

Inside that mansion was more
photographic equipment than KLRN, KLRU

And that's one of the biggest stations
in the Southwest, bigger than Channel 13

in Houston possesses.

Channel 13 played up the raid, but the
news media besides Channel 13 didn't. It

was as if five guys in a little studio
were taking candid camera shots of kids.

They were producing books in there.

There was also an arrest in Houston in
1981 of a man who sold

20 different films, child pornography
films, to somebody from Boston.

Now, he was committing several federal
crimes in doing that.

And among those films, although the
newspapers would not print the

among those films was that of an infant
being sexually used by men and a film in

which somebody appears to have been
murdered.

That person hasn't gone to jail yet.

What about the bookstores and the places
where they show movies and stuff like

this? Here in town for how much you
don't find much evidence this sort of

in the bookstores because it's People
who are trading and dealing with this

of thing. It's very clandestine
operation and having gone through an

investigation myself I know how
absolutely impossible it is to trail

I mean as you're dealing with people who
are not stupid, you know, they are in

levels of power because they're
intelligent people by and large And they

cover their tracks and they're not about
to be dealing with them through the

bookstores i think maybe five years ago
you could find that sort of thing but

now it's i think it's been pretty much
cleaned up tom they have well i went

a bookstore in austin two years ago in
daylight and

my experience is the difference between
the operation in daytime and nighttime

is the difference between night and day
yet

In daylight, I first bought a magazine
that had pictures of people of

age. They could have been 18. They could
have been 17.

And 17 is legal.

And then I had the names of illegal
publications.

I first asked for a register that listed
boys by description. It was a catalog.

You order a boy.

I asked for that. In a bookstore.

Here in Austin? Yeah. It's a crime to
print that.

to reproduce it, to distribute it, to
buy it, to possess it. I broke the law

saying, I want that. And the guy reached
under the counter and handed it to me.

And I said, what about this? And he
handed me that. And I said, what about

one? And he handed me one more.

And I walked out of there with a lot of
illegal goods. I was in the daytime.

I understand that as of now, 1981, the
same bookstores don't let

somebody they don't know do that sort of
thing, even at night.

But I've been in places in Houston
within the last several months.

One in particular I can describe to you
had 40 cubicles where supposedly men

go in and put in quarters to watch dirty
movies.

And outside every cubicle was a little
boy.

I was approached both by little boys as
if I were a man who might want a boy,

and I was approached by older men who in
the dark thought I looked young.

That was on a weeknight, not on Friday
or Saturday, in Houston.

When I started following up some films
that we heard were circulating in the

Houston area, I called an old friend of
mine while I was investigating another

case involved in this because we heard
that it had been viewed by the district

attorney's office in Houston.

This friend was a good friend who I'd
known through...

from bars, you know, I mean in a very
social atmosphere, not a professional

I called him to ask about if he had
heard anything about this film or viewed

himself, perhaps.

He answered the phone. I said, hello. We
chatted for a moment. I said, by the

way, have you heard anything about this
film? And he cut me off and said, I've

never talked to you before in my life.
Boom. And I've never talked to him

And I've known this guy for a couple of
years.

As soon as I mentioned that film, it's
like...

When Boys for Sale was shown on TV, it
was shown first as a nightly series, and

then there was a summary program.

The biggest bank in Houston withdrew its
advertising from the show and from the

station because it showed that program.

And the bank managed to get the other
advertisers for that program to withdraw

their advertising. And if I might
interject this just for a moment,

was... It ties into the power problems.

I remember originally with the Robert
Anderson, the pharmacist we talked about

earlier, one of the items found in his
apartment was a wallet or checkbook, I

guess, with a student's address and name
on it.

Well, we started to make some phone
calls and try to contact this person. We

finally got through to his father, and
it turned out it was the...

One of the major banks in Dallas, his
father was the bank president.

And we thought we had a hot lead going.

And next thing you know, a very, I can't
mention names here, but a very powerful

law enforcement agency had called us. We
were asking about

this individual's name in Dallas.

And he called us back and said, and it
was so cryptic that it was unusual. He

just said, all I can say is.

Forget Dallas.

You know, like, don't touch it.

A Texas House committee has been charged
with looking at the problem. Two public

hearings later, the committee has been
unable to make any serious progress.

Its budget was slashed from $80 ,000 to
$15 ,000, hardly enough to do an honest

probe. And the committee chairman admits
to knowing of the problem in Houston,

but says he's been told to back off.

When we started this committee, we asked
for money to do an adequate

investigation to determine just how
serious the problem of child

child prostitution, sexual exploitation
is here in Texas, which I think is a

proper thing for this committee to do.

Now, that was the first indication that
we had pressure on us. The second

indication was when I appeared before
the House Administration Committee, when

they chopped our budget.

subsequent conversations with certain
members that said, we have got to stop

investigation. Why did they want you to
stop?

I don't know why.

Do you plan to find out? I plan to find
out. I think it's serious that they were

getting this kind of pressure.

The concluding program of Boys for Sale
will emphasize the law enforcement and

judicial performances, the handling of
the subject by the mass media, and will

provide a more intimate understanding of
the lives of the children involved.

There is big business, organized crime.
It's sophisticated. It's closely

attached to the major financial,
commercial, industrial, educational

institutions of our society.

It's run by the same people who run
those. It's frequented by the same

who occupy management positions in
those. It's not the mafia.

It's an adjunct of clean business.

It's serving the most respectable people
we have in our society, the people who

are the elite.

We would like very much to hear from
you. If you'd like to participate on

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