Original subtitles

The one thing I wish that I had learned

when I first started as a director was

that all I really needed was confidence

and a pen and a paper.

I thought that somehow I had to know

every lens size,

that I had to be aware of every type of

film stock.

The truth is is that everything that you

have to know is inside of you. Every

decision-m process is instinctual.

And as long as you have a pen and a

paper to write it down, you're in good

shape.

I was a child actor. I started when I

was 3 years old. I understood that the

director had a full vision that the

director uh could make decisions that

would influence whether how the film was

and how the film ended up on screen. I

understood that the director was in

charge of dreaming the dream. I'd say

the first time I got the bug to direct,

I was about six or seven years old. I

was on a television show called the

courtship's father and uh one day I came

to work and the man who was playing

father Bill Bixby was the director that

day. I was stunned. I couldn't believe

that they let actors become directors

and I watched him that day uh directing

the crew uh setting up the shots um

talking to the actors and I knew

immediately that that's what I wanted to

do when I grew up. We're going to talk

about a bunch of things in this course.

We're going to talk about working with

actors. We're going to talk about

working with technicians, uh whether

it's your uh script supervisor, your

first AD, your DP, your production

designer, how to work with the

screenwriter, and how to recognize uh

shifts and changes that you'll need to

be making in your script as time goes

on, how to develop it. And then there's

all the technical things. um how to make

a shot list, how to choose coverage, how

to work with an editor, and how to edit

down uh the sequences that you've come

up with. I'm going to give you the actor

director's perspective. Uh somebody who

inhabits both sides of the fence, so

acting and directing simultaneously, and

what you may need to know about how to

get your own films off the ground. One

of the reasons why I wanted to teach

this class was I wanted to bring the

excitement of creating a signature and

expressing yourself in a work of art.

Um, for me that's been the whole point

of my life. It's been the greatest joy

of my life is to take everything that I

am and everything that I think and I

feel and I question to put it on a an

arrow and to shoot it outwards and to

hope that it connects with other people.

Um, one of the things that you achieve

by doing this is to is a real

understanding of who you are, of your

identity, where you come from, your

signature, what you love, and why.

You're opening yourself up to people.

You're connecting you to them. That

means you to the crew, but also you to

the wider audience. Really, that's the

joy of making movies.

I'm Jody Foster, and this is my master

class.

moving you doesn't mean that you have to

be in a puddle crying on the floor. Uh

moving you means what inspires you, what

interests you, what makes you

passionate, what makes you obsessed,

what makes you stay up all night

thinking about something over and over

and over again. Sometimes I understand

what moves me and sometimes I don't. For

example, for some reason, I don't know

why, when I see two people dancing,

it just it brings a tear to my eye. And

I'm not really sure why. Why is that? Do

I have some kind of childhood trauma,

childhood trauma revolving around

dancing? I I don't think so. I think uh

as I start pondering it and as I watch

maybe, you know, uh two ballet dancers

or as I watch uh an older couple in a

ballroom, you know, learning how to

dance the tango, you know, what is it

that gets me? And as I start thinking

about that, you know, why am I moved?

Why am I moved? I start chipping away at

those ideas,

I come to understand that it's something

about maybe two opposites.

uh that come together imperfectly to um

lean against each other in opposite

ways. This continual movement of two

opposites trying to connect and not

quite able to connect. So there I took a

personal experience, something that had

its foundation almost in something

unconscious and I was able to chip away

at the ideas behind it. As you make a

film, you're obsessed and attracted to

something emotional and then you try to

chip away at the wise. If you can

understand why something moves you or

even without understanding, if you can

experience being moved, then you can

move somebody else. Um, that to me is

the most important role that filmm has

is connection and making people better

instead of worse. And the best way to

start that is by hopefully trying to get

better instead of worse.

big theme for me is uh is people in

spiritual crisis. I keep coming back to

this. You know, every movie I tend to be

drawn to that I want to spend years on

is about somebody who's going through a

spiritual crisis. And uh this person uh

this man or this woman is is trying to

make sense of their life because they're

trying to get better instead of worse.

There are some directors that are really

interested in behavior and in themselves

and they're not that interested in their

character trying to repair themsel.

Martin Scorsesei, for example, is really

fascinated by men and violence and um

how they live this life or this culture

of violence, but he's not as interested

in how they repair that and become

somebody better or become somebody

greater. That's not his area of

interest, but for me, that really is.

And you'll notice that many of my

characters are struggling with you know

how do I how do I how do I become a more

realized person and um that in in many

cases that is the whole object of the

film is to take that person from a uh a

a lost state from a broken state to a

state where they can suddenly maybe

start to repair themselves whether it's

the little boy and little man Tate who

is split between those two sides of

himself and wants to bring those two

sides of himself represented by these

two

together in order to be a repaired and

whole person as an artist. Uh whether

it's uh um in Home for the Holidays, uh

Holly Hunter is is fired at the

beginning of the movie and everything in

her life that day is wrong and she's

trying to piece together by going home

these bits and pieces of her past to

figure out who she was that was

beautiful that she's forgotten. The

Beaver is about a broken man who's uh

probably uh chemically depressed um and

probably desperately in need of

medication. and he's torn between

thinking that life is either a life

sentence or a death sentence. And rather

than choose either one of those, he

decides to save himself by using a

survival tool, a puppet that he puts on

his hand that he can then talk through.

And by splitting himself, he can somehow

repair this damaged self. A Money

Monster is really about these three men,

uh, three men that are motivated and

obsessed and tortured by their feelings

of masculine failure in front of these

incredibly strong women that they

continue to disappoint. So, the theme of

failure is a big one for me. Um, I

grapple with it. Um, I'm obsessed with

it. And, uh, it doesn't matter what I

accomplish, I always feel like I'm a

disappointment in my eyes. And maybe

that's a motivator to get me to

continually try to be better. Sometimes

people ask me that question. Why are you

talking about failure? You've

accomplished so many things. And uh how

can you possibly have uh that feeling

about yourself? Well, obviously it's uh

it's not an objective fact. Um our

feelings about ourselves, our feelings

of failure come from within. Uh the

feeling of never being good enough. um

being an imposttor, a feeling uh maybe

perhaps because I was a a prodigy as a

child, a child actor, a prodigy for lack

of a better word, is that I never

believed that any of the attention that

I got that I deserved. It just felt like

I was born with good fingers or the

ability to speak a language or um I was

born with a skill that I had no control

over and that I kept getting a lot of

attention for. So sometimes I like to

describe it as being raised in, you

know, in the public eye as having been

dosed with a bunch of steroids and you

look in the mirror all the time and

you're like, "Oh, wow. I have big

muscles." And then at some point you

have to stop taking those steroids and

you don't recognize the person in the

mirror. Um that foundation, your

foundation of your belief in yourself is

is really unsand. It's um it's it's not

it's not a real foundation and you have

to learn again to appreciate and

understand what's worthy about yourself

without the uh the medication of uh you

know the public eye.

When a producer is hiring a director

onto a job, he or she is hiring an

unknown. um a producer is hiring

somebody who he's handing all of the

reigns to. He's handing all the power

really to the director. And that's why

it is such a scary thing to do for

producers. It's probably why most of the

directors that you've met in the past

have been straight white men. Uh because

frankly and psychologically, I think

that producers have always been

comfortable handing over the risk of

those reigns to somebody that looks a

lot like them. Uh but these days we have

a much more diverse group of people and

producers are looking for that extra

special thing that makes you more

qualified than somebody else. You know

what is that thing in a pitch that

you're going to bring to the room that

makes them trust you that makes them

feel that you have a strong vision that

when push comes to shove and there's a

problem that you're going to be able to

find it within you to troubleshoot. And

I always believe that a personal

emotional language and a personal

connection is the best thing to bring

into that room. Uh yes, you can talk

about the shots that you're going to

use. You can talk about your casting

choices. You can talk about um you know

the intellectual reasons for why you

like the project. But the thing that has

the most resonance is that you have a

central personal connection to the

material. And don't feel shy about

laying that out in the room. I think

it's something that producers and the

people that are in the business of

hiring you will be very attracted to.

The stories that I choose to tell um are

usually

really quite difficult uh things to

face. Um they're reckonings. Um that's

something that I'm really drawn to is uh

is a reckoning. A reckoning of myself or

the reckoning of the other characters.

Um to me that's uh that's a bittersweet

thing. You know, the beauty of

understanding, but also the beauty of

understanding how small you really are

and who you thought you were at the

beginning, what you were obsessed with,

what you were drawn to, what you were

inspired by, what that story that you

had to tell also transforms because you

transform. It's a way of kind of

repairing the self. And I don't know any

other way. I guess that's the part that

compels me to continually make films and

to use that as my medium is I don't know

what to do with all of these thoughts

and feelings. And the only way that I

know how to work them out and to come to

terms with them is to get that pad and

paper and to write it down to make

choices to make decisions and say that's

it, that's it. That's it. That's it. um

kind of the way you you know when you do

an eye exam and you say you know that's

in focus but that isn't plus shoving

that to the side that's in focus but

that isn't. Every choice that you make

is uh that kind of decisiveness is a

narrowing to be able to hone in on

something that is simple

So, what is the big idea? Um, the big

idea isn't the plot. Um, it is the

story. It's what you're trying to say.

Um, it it it the big idea is something

that encapsulates the vision of your

film in a very simple way. The reason

that you are fascinated. Now, this idea

may be the reason that you got involved

in the film in the first place, but it

may evolve over time and it may turn

into it may turn into something that you

hadn't anticipated. The idea might

change. You might realize that the thing

that you were fascinated with in the

beginning has transformed and morphed

into something different. In a way, the

big idea is the vision. It's the

inspirational one line that keeps it's

the question really that keeps the

filmmaker

on this momentum. this ball of

discovery.

Um, so it's always interesting as an

exercise to define what the big idea is

in the movies that you see. What is that

one thing that um is sort of

life-changing or life shaking about that

film? Sometimes you can discover that

big idea intentionally the way Jane

Campion does in the piano for example

where she really that is that is really

intentional that she says this character

in in order to finally say I want to

live that she cuts the rope at the end

of the movie and takes this big gasp

that's a very intentional moment um you

look at a film uh like a Martin

Scorsesei movie like Taxi Driver for

example there is a scene in that movie

that is the seminal moment in the movie

that everybody always remembers where

Robert Dairo says, "You talking to me?"

That scene for me is very emblematic, is

a signpost for what the big idea of the

movie is. The big idea for me is that

the 1970s, you know, there is a lost man

who came back from war and didn't know

where he belonged. He wasn't an

American. He wasn't a soldier.

He was just an anonymous ghost in the

middle of a big city. and all he wants,

his motivation in this film is to be

something. Um, that is really

articulated in the scene that Robert

Dairo has where he improvised this, you

know, this wonderful line, are you

talking to me? Um, that's an an idea

that is elaborated through character.

Uh, Martin Scorsese didn't talk to him

about, you know, symbolism or coming up

with something. It was just something

that happened because the actor was so

in character. And in that moment, u you

know, he had a gun, he had some guns

strapped to him, and Martin Scorsesi

just let him be free. And I think, uh,

he let him find a a a speech or

something or a movement or a gesture, a

piece of language that said everything.

And for me, that moment is Robert Dairo

looking in the mirror and and asking

himself, you know, in character,

pretending to be somebody who's bigger

and more important than he is and

looking at a stranger, pretending that

that stranger is looking back at him and

asking him very cockily, you know, you

talking to me? Um, that tells you

everything about the character of Tax

Driver.

big idea in Money Monster for me has to

do with men and failure. And uh what men

do in order to um vanquish that feeling

of failure, they tend to blame outwards.

Um and in at that particular movie, they

all of the male characters are

surrounded by these strong women and in

some ways um these strong women who they

fear are disappointed by them. Kyle's

scene in Money Monster where he um is on

stage and his girlfriend comes and

everybody thinks that somehow she's

going to be able to talk him off the

ledge, his eight-month pregnant

girlfriend. And in fact, she little by

little starts berating him and it

becomes this just this momentous dark

ragefilled

um uh attack on on Kyle, on Jack

McConnell's character. Um, this sort of

fits in with the big idea of the movie

about men and failure, about who men

become in the face of this masculine uh

disappointment in themselves. You

definitely don't need to know the big

idea of your film uh before you make it,

even while you're making it. I think the

thing that you need to know is that you

love it and that you're inspired by it

and that it keeps you up at night. I

think that um an obsession is a is a

signifier for something that is worth

exploring and it's through that

exploration very often through that

conscious and unconscious exploration

that a director comes to understand that

their movie represents them and that

their movie is a part of their awakening

and their becoming.

My favorite exercise is going to a movie

and reimagining it. You go into a film

and you say, "How could I have done that

so that it so that it feels like me?"

It's not better, not how could I have

made that movie better, but how could I

make that movie fit some of the things

that I want to say? In this case, I'm

going to pick The Martian. It's got

bells and whistles. It's got Mars. It's

got Matt Damon. It's got a host of

different characters. It has amazing

visual effects. It very skillfully uh,

you know, one of our greatest

filmmakers. I mean, it very skillfully

tells the story of a man who goes to

Mars uh with his group of scientists and

and astronauts and he gets left behind.

Um, and he has to figure out how to live

on Mars by himself. He's a botist figure

on Mars by himself. And in the

meanwhile, all these people are trying

to figure out how to save him. And in

the end, years and years go by, he

manages to stay alive and they have this

miraculous recovery where they recover

him and he lives.

I saw that movie and uh you know one of

the things that I asked myself wonderful

film I asked myself the part that really

really really fascinated me was the guy

all by himself all by himself for years

and years at a time uh maybe more like

castaway so a guy all by himself what

does he come up with what does he do in

order to survive to keep living to say I

want to live a man in spiritual crisis

who is insisting on figuring out or or

fooling himself into wanting to live.

Um, to me that said, okay, if I was to

remake that movie, uh, I'm sure it

wouldn't be better, but if I was to

remake that movie with my signature as a

film that I was fascinated by, I would

like to inhabit the point of view of

that man, uh, Matt Damon's character. So

maybe the film starts, maybe the film

starts when he wakes up. he's been, you

know, he's been he the everybody's left

him already and he wakes up and he wakes

up on a on this planet, the red planet,

and their planet is red and and he has

to as a botonist try to figure this out.

Um, so the point of view immediately is

the point of view of somebody who's in

that space suit, somebody who's in that

module, somebody who's seeing things in

a way that is confused. He doesn't know

what's up or down or what's oxygenated

and what isn't. and he has to um the

camera as he is the point of view of the

film is the point of view of a man in

abject loneliness the plants that he

comes up with we watch that that maybe

there's reveries in order to propel

himself to live he's got to go back to

his past and say why did I leave that

girlfriend or you know why did I join

the space program and maybe his memories

are faulty you know maybe his memories

aren't true maybe in his memories are

you celebrities, you know, maybe Johnny

Depp appears in his memory because

they're not really memories, they're

fantasies. You can change the rules

because they're from his perspective and

he is somebody who's just trying to

live. So maybe he's creating these

thoughts and pondering his life in a way

that he might not do if he was in a

regular film with all sorts of other

characters points of view. um that path

or that journey of a singular person

doing whatever it takes in order to stay

alive and the craziness and the

fantasies um of you know musical

numbers. Who knows what might be

happening in his psyche. Uh the film

itself might be very contained and very

inexpensive. An indie movie that is

nonlinear that happens in one area, this

setup at maybe this red planet that we

shoot someplace inexpensive like

Morocco, I don't know. And um we let the

fantasy sequences be the things that

give us some scope. As an exercise, I'd

love you to go out, go see a film that

you're either satisfied or unsatisfied

with and reimagine it um as if it was

coming from you as a filmmaker.

Reimagine every part of it and embrace

it as if this film had your signature.

process of coming up with a script,

whether it's for a short or for a

feature. There's a lot of different ways

to do that. I decided to find a personal

moment of my own, something that I'll

never forget, just a just a little blip

in my life. I'll tell it to you now and

then we'll turn it into a scene or maybe

a series of scenes. We'll see as time

goes on. When my son was probably I

don't know 5 years old, 6 years old, he

had to have his tonsils and his adoids

out and some ear tubes put in there as

well. Uh we took him to the lovely

hospital uh wonderful uh odto

larangologist is what she's called. I

hope I pronounced that correctly. Um and

uh as he was uh going into uh the

anesthesia, we we were kidding around

with him and there came a moment where

the anesthesiologist said, "We're going

to play Spaceman." And he started

talking to him and making him laugh

about how they were going to count down,

count backwards. My son was too young to

count backwards. Uh he put the mask over

his mouth and he was laughing and

smiling with me and uh he started

counting backwards or frontwards in his

case. And um there was just this kind of

devastating moment where as he was

counting he realized that something was

happening to him and I projected while

I'm watching him looking at his eyes I

projected this kind of fear and betrayal

that somehow I betrayed him that I had

lied to him that I told him that

something was going to happen that

wasn't happening and now his body was

melting and he was out of control and at

that one moment I wanted to stop the

whole procedure

because I felt like my child was

was going and that I had done something

terrible to him and that there was no

way for me to stop this experiment. I

wanted to say, "Wait, wait, wait." And

at that his eyes rolled back in his head

and crazy twitchy things happened and he

was out. Um, I was devastated. I was

absolutely devastated in that moment.

And, you know, shaken, taken away. They

said, "Everything's fine. It's going to

be great." 15, 20 minutes later, they

wheel him back in. He's asleep.

Everything's fine. And um I hear kind of

a funny sound over there and I was like,

"Wow, there's kind of a funny sound over

there." And then suddenly my son pops up

uh like in a scary movie and starts

screaming and kicking and going, "No,

no, no." Craziness. And I'm trying to

hold him down and tell him that

everything's okay. And tears are coming

to my eyes and a a nurse comes over and

pops him with some kind of anesthesia

that just knocks him down. And she

explains to me that um oh this is

completely normal. This is just a uh im

immersion trauma. Uh this is this is how

we know that the anesthesia is harmless.

And at this I'm floored. I'm completely

floored. The child has been crawling cra

trying to grab on to me and say no. Of

course everything was fine. Uh 20

minutes later he woke up and said this

is the best hospital I've ever seen. I

can't wait to come back to this

hospital. They gave him some kind of a

balloon or a teddy bear and uh and off

he went blowing kisses to all of the

nurses. Well, I was I don't think I'll

ever get over it. So, I reached out to

my good friend Scott Frank. Uh he was

the writer of Little Man Tate and we've

stayed friends since we were in our 20s.

Uh he has gone on to be an extraordinary

writer and um an extraordinary director

as well. When I uh downloaded this

memory that I had to Scott, I also

included um a kind of a backstory for

the character and a a a future story or

future scenes um that the that this idea

might live inside. In this story, uh,

this mother has been in jail and she's

gotten out for a period of time and she

gets to spend a little time with her son

and wants to do all the right things

that a mother does, whether it's taking

him to Disneyland or whether it's, uh,

making sure that he gets his tonsils out

because it's important. Um, the child

has been living with grandparents, her

grandparents, um, who don't look too

favorably on her. And in some ways, this

is proof that she can be a mother again,

that she can get through this

experience. Um there's u I I came up

with this idea that there's a her past

is is is knocking at the door. Uh

there's maybe somebody from that she

knew before prison or there's a job

nefarious kind of felonious job that

she's being called into and it's this

temptation that keeps ringing at

knocking at her door u during this scene

and by the time we get to the end of the

scene that she has to make a difficult

choice. you know, is she going to stay

with this clean life or is she going to

say, "Yeah, I'm not good at that anyway.

I'm going to pop back into that

temptation of that uh the life of a

felon." So, you're going to see the

process of working with a writer. And um

we will be looking at character. We'll

be looking at structure. We'll be

looking at tone. We'll be looking at

which genre it lives in. And we'll also

include some of the technical exigencies

that you're hoping for. How the scene

might begin, how the scene might end. uh

throughout this process because we've

all made a lot of movies, we might have

experience about how economical this

might be. Um there are certain choices

that you'll make that will be very

expensive and we all know that we're

making a student film or we're making a

an indie movie. So, we want to be

careful about uh big equipment and we

don't want it to overwhelm the story

which was probably designed to be

something a little more raw uh not so

much a big studio film. So, we're going

to take all those into considerations

while we're trying to be creative.

Hi, Scott. Great.

I'm going to put on my glasses. I was,

you know, I'm blind as a bat, so I have

to put on my glasses.

I'll put on mine so you feel better.

Um,

this is so nice of you. Thank you so

much.

Oh, my pleasure. It's fun.

I um I talked to this lady who's a

wonderful doctor uh at UCLA. She was

she's an odto larangologist. And the

interesting thing is is that she

actually did my son's

adoid ectomy uh tonslectomy. So some of

the things that I scribbled are

basically in consideration of some of

the research that she gave me.

Okay, good. Let's make it real.

I decided the mom's name should be Amy

because it's only three letters and when

you replace mom, it's still three

letters.

Um uh and the

I don't think the computer cares one way

or the other.

Computer doesn't care.

Okay. Less for me to type. I gave the

boy the name Lucas because your son's

name is Lucas and I thought you would be

able to remember that better.

Um uh in order to I I had this idea

about the phone ringing um that there's

something from the past that she's

dealing with that um gives her that's

full of anxiety. It's a choice that

she's being forced to make

um in the middle of all this

in the middle of all this. So that

through this interview that she has with

the nurse, we get this phone ringing

and the nurse might notice it as well

and chooses not to do anything about it,

but is clocking the fact that this woman

is not answering this phone. Um, the

phone, what I'm hoping about about the

phone is that it's uh it it it is a

choice that she'll have to make, which

is does she stay clean in this new life

that she has, return to being a mom, and

it's hard and she doesn't have any money

and she's going to have to figure that

out, or does she take that left turn and

go back to the temptation of being who

she was maybe for that one last bit of

change uh with somebody who's who's been

after her. Um, so I put it in

uh I put in the phone ringing maybe

after the first three lines because I

thought you'd want to get a good hit on

her first and then put it in there

and then a few lines down it comes in

again.

Um, I really like this whole into

close-up thing where it's a close-up

into the camera and um, you don't know

who's asking the question and she just

answers, you know, no, no, no. Um, and

it might be fun if it was direct to

camera.

So that um you know the the the mom is

sort of or the mom we'll call her Amy is

looking directly into the camera which

has this very intimate quality to it. Um

you know Hitchcock did it. We did it a

lot in Silence the Lambs.

Uhhuh.

Uh and it sort of becomes kind of

otherworldly. It's uh the person staring

down the lens. Uh but then we probably

want to cut that moment as soon as we

get we cut the moment and change the

moment a bit as soon as we want to find

out where she is in the room. Mhm.

Um, and my guess is is that's going to

happen maybe four or five lines in,

then we should trick the audience a

little bit. The questions at the top

shouldn't give away where she is.

Otherwise, we're doing the gimmick and

it will feel like a gimmick. Whereas, if

we can kind of give it a little

resonance about, especially given her

past, we might think she's being

interrogated by someone other than a

nurse.

Yeah. Excellent. Great idea. Um, one of

the questions that I had just as an

actor was where's the kid? Um, if we're

in a waiting room, is he by himself? Is

he, you know, lying down by himself? And

one of the thoughts I had was that maybe

he's asleep. I know they always do these

procedures super early in the morning

and maybe he's asleep in her arms.

How old is he?

I think it should be younger. I think it

should be six.

Mhm.

I like this idea that there's something

that's bothering her that comes from her

past. Uh, something that she's lived

through before.

um that's reminding her of a almost like

a trauma that she's had that she's p

that she's projecting onto him that this

might be part of his experience. Um but

I thought maybe it would be good if it

was asking them are they going to tie

him down?

Mhm.

Um and then uh so that's that's what I

would put that first and then second she

says I mean in case he wakes up. Uh so

the the question on page two is you know

what happens if he wakes up if he tries

to move you know during the surgery. Um,

I thought that there was something about

that about being the fear of being tied

down almost like, you know, being in a

closet and being dark, but this idea of

being tied down. And then if we ever

decided to go back to a flashback,

whether it's a flashback in a prison or

whether it's a flashback of um of being

uh being arrested in, you know, some

wild state, some frenzied state of, you

know, blood on her face and somebody

trying to tie her down. even uh being

tied down in water for example, which to

me is always feels super visual. Um we'd

be able to go back to that image and

understand what that where that image

was coming from.

Okay.

So then we got to the next part and I

felt a little bereff that there was no

moment with the child. So I didn't get a

hit of her relationship with the kid and

I didn't get a hit of how young the kid

was and how she was sort of trying to

help him through this experience.

Um,

so I devised if there was a hallway,

we'll see if they when they go location

scouting, if there's a hallway where

they're starting to wheel uh they're

starting to wheel the kid in. Um, and

she says, you know, here we go. And uh,

there's a little moment where you get a

little mother son relationship. Another

piece of information that I think would

be important to know is that if he's

been living with his grandparents, he's

going to want to know like, you know,

where's grandma and grandpa? And um

maybe she can explain, you know, that

they're going to they'll be here.

They'll be here when you wake up or

they'll be here, you know, they're going

to pick us they're going to pick you up.

How often does does Luke see Amy, do we

think? Um, given that we're saying that

she's had this this prison background,

did she take him when she wasn't

supposed to? How comfortable was he with

her? I had thought that she took him and

he got sick while he was with her,

but what is, you know, what is the

situation, you know, before the movie

started?

My fantasy is is that this particular

little moment is dropped in the middle

of a woman coming out of prison and she

gets to spend, you know, that first week

with her son and um and maybe he's come

to visit her a few times and maybe she

hasn't been there long. I mean, maybe

it's only been six months, but maybe

she's been there before somehow. So, we

don't feel like, you know, she's never

met him. so they can have a

relationship, but that the relationship

the real kind of the real every single

day of waking up and making breakfast

and all of that has been happening with

his grandparents.

Well, or to piggyback on what you were

suggesting at the top of this something

going on in the middle of this

some sort of sense of urgency.

Maybe she's not supposed to be where she

is. Maybe she's out of state to visit

this kid. Maybe her parole officer is

calling her saying, "Where are you?"

Maybe that's really, you know, there's

she's in trouble to begin with. So on

top of that, the kid is somehow

got a bad case of tonsillitis in the

middle of all of this,

right? Okay.

Yeah, that's a thought, too. Definitely

that there's some urgency about

something that's interrupting this

moment and

she's supposed to be doing something

else or supposed to be somewhere else

or she's not supposed to be around the

kid. There may be some interesting

restraining order or something where she

can't be around the kid. The kid, she

might have endangered this kid or

something inadvertently or whatever. We

have to talk about her crime and all of

that.

Okay.

Um um cuz sometimes when you do a really

short script, you can be um more

impressionistic. Yeah.

But if we're going to start teeing up a

lot of questions, we're going to have to

answer at least some of them.

Okay. Okay. Well, we'll continue to talk

about that. Um um

so I just gave you a couple of ideas um

for the anesthesiologist the the doctor

that I uh met with uh they do say for

little kids they'll say they'll ask them

their name of course they'll say their

name a number of times so that they feel

comfortable with the name and then

they'll uh I had him say uh do you like

to play spaceman that's what the

anesthesiologist said to my son so that

the anesthesiologist is kind of bustling

around and doing things but barely

looking at the kid even though he's

saying these kind of endearing uh

kindergarten kind of things. Um I'm

going to put the mask over your face.

Then when I came to the next line where

theologist said, "How's that not too

tight?" I would kind of take that away

from him. I would I would let the mom

have that question. Right. So

is the mom allowed in there?

Yeah, she's allowed in there. She's not

allowed in there once once he goes down,

then they'll take her out, but they'll

keep her there for the whole first part.

So they'll keep her there for the um for

when they put the nitrous which is you

know nitrous oxide which is whippis

which I thought was kind of funny. Um

uh so so instead of him saying how's

that not too tight if he says something

like you know that's pretty cool and

calls him captain or something. Um and

then she inquires like is that too

tight? So that we already know she's a

little wound up about this. She already

said that she had issues with being tied

down and now she's projecting that onto

him, but nobody's really listening to

her, which I think is nice. So, she's

gonna have to protest a little bit more.

Uh, and you'll feel her tension kind of

growing as uh as he he uh he starts

going through the process of saying, um,

here's the funny air. I'm gonna have you

take some deep breaths and count

backwards from 10. Can you do that?

Maybe. Then she interjects again. That

might be too tight.

Um,

nobody listens to her again and they

still go almost ready for blastoff.

We're kind of going to countdown

starting at 10. Then as he starts

counting, so as he gets into the next

thing where he goes nine and eight,

she can go in a little bit more and say,

"Loosen that up." Um, and if she goes to

move him, you know, move the, um,

elastic, for example, then they might

take her back a little bit and say, uh,

you should probably, you should probably

be moving, you know, moving away. Um, I

like this. What I remember from my own

experience was that I locked into his

eyes

and um I saw him as he was counting, I

saw him start to

uh feel somehow that somebody had lied

to him. I felt almost that he he was

telling me he'd been lied to and that

now he was counting down and he didn't

understand what was happening to him.

So, if we lock into both of their eyes

on each other as he's moving down

towards six, seven, five, and she might

um she might say, "Wait, wait, wait,

wait."

But there's not going to be any waiting

because he's going to go down. So, just

that sense of wanting something to stop

and wanting to intervene to stop it and

not being able to. And then maybe just

saying his name.

Um what the doctor said uh after that is

that the eyes would twitch, they might

roll back, um he might look a little

confused. Uh and then he just go out all

the muscles would go out. Then they

would bring out this needle

and the needle then they do the IV. So

that might be a fun thing to focus on um

after he's gone down and he's he's his

eyes rolled back in his head and he's

gone down. um to see her sort of pain

and you know having wanted to stop this

and it doesn't stop to then see these

things come out the IV gets jabbed in

whatever those little details are then

um based on the research she would take

they would take her away she would be

gone and then 15 20 minutes the surgery

takes 15 or 20 minutes

um I like this hard cut from the from

the kid on the table and the details and

all that kind of stuff we decided to do

a flashback back. It might be a good

place to do a weird flashback there for

her life.

Mhm. Mhm.

Um

we'll talk we'll talk about the

flashbacks once we get through the whole

Yeah. And maybe maybe we don't need

them. Maybe that's just the actor

talking. Sometimes the actor has to

come.

I'm a little nervous about them, but

there's a way we might be able to have

our cake and eat it too. But let's keep

going.

Okay. He gets wheeled back. Um and maybe

she catches he he he would be asleep. Of

course, they would put him down and

maybe she just comes to his um stretcher

and can even just put her head maybe

down so that she's put her head down and

then suddenly little by little she

starts hearing screaming. She'll hear

one scream, then she'll hear two

screams, then she'll hear three kids

screams, and then the next thing you

know, his whole body bucks up and starts

thrashing and screaming and saying, "No,

no, no, no, no. This is what happened.

This is what happened to me."

Um, so you'll get that sort of eerie

precursor of why are there children

screaming over there? Why is there

another child that's chiming in? Wait a

minute, there's a third child that's

chiming in. and then her own son pops

into the shot and um starts bucking

uncontrollably.

Um this is all true to the research. So

then the a nurse would come in uh I

don't know if it would be the

anesthesiologist but it would probably

be somebody else um to come in and

they'd have to kind of hold him down

while they jab him with uh more

medication. That experience is kind of

like it's such a big experience. It's

like having a car accident or getting

shot or something.

Um, it takes a minute to recover.

Um, so it would be nice to see that

moment of not of barely recovering.

Um,

oh, I forgot about the uh I forgot about

I forgot about the teddy bear. Whether

the uh they do give them teddy bears and

the teddy bears have scrubs on

at county hospital. Would they give them

teddy bears too, do you think?

Uh, I think they might. I mean, we don't

have to be accurate. If you want him to

have a teddy bear, you're the director.

He gets a teddy bear.

You can either give it to her uh uh

before, you know, uh before he comes in,

or you can give it to him, you can give

it to him afterwards after he uh has his

freakout.

Mhm.

Um we can decide about that later. Uh

but then I thought as she's trying to

recover is a good time, you know, give

her a second and then have the older

woman come in.

the older woman being her her mother and

his grandma. Um the doctor did tell me

that they only let one parent in at a

time.

So um they don't want to a recovery room

where there's like a bunch of parents

around. So they you have to switch off.

So that's good. Well, well, also this

could be another moment for another

piece of information, which is the

mother could come in with a security

guard because the grandmother

because maybe she's the legal guardian

anyway,

right?

And the mother lied a little bit on on

the admitting form. So,

right,

can't be there anyway.

Yeah. Yeah.

Not supposed to be in the hospital.

Period. The end.

Yeah. Good idea. That's a good idea. I

came up with a line that I like that I I

think uh

I think is good where if the mom says

something like he's my kid for [ __ ]

sake and the older woman says

well that's news to me

or something like that.

Since when?

Yeah, since when?

Um enough to something so mean enough to

stop her in her tracks?

Um

then um I thought uh uh if we want to

build in that there's a there's a a

grandmother and a grandfather, but the

grandfather's outside. Um I had this

idea of feeling like the grandfather

never sees his daughter because he's

she's dead to him.

So, um, if the older woman, uh, uh, says

something like, you know,

uh, he'll he's he'll be fine by the

weekend.

Um, you can come then. Your dad's going

fishing or something, I don't know,

whatever it is that your dad's doing.

So, the the idea is if you're going to

come visit him, come visit him when your

father's not there because you two don't

see each other. So that you two don't

have to see each other.

be better for her to walk by the

grandfather and tell that story between

the two of them

instead of having there's a lot we're

we're jamming

jamming it into that moment. You're

right.

So, I would do it as she walks out.

There he is. And you just can have a

great moment.

Mhm.

But they don't even have to speak.

What I was thinking is is that if she

walks out, she she has to be motivated

to she has to walk out, right? Because

they're making her do it. So, she's got

to walk out. if she walks out and, you

know, heads towards the bathroom and she

sees he's waiting in the waiting waiting

area and you get that she never stops.

She just keeps walking and we dolly and

we see this guy and we know that he's

not going to talk to her. He's not going

to look at her. He looks at her for a

second and then looks back and doesn't

refuses to look at her and she refuses

to look at him or she she she looks at

him but he never looks back at her. Um,

now that that's when the phone can start

ringing, right? the phone can start

ringing again. She's got she's got two

choices. She's got the stupid teddy bear

or she's got the phone that's ringing.

So maybe if it keeps ringing, whether it

rings when she gets to the bathroom or

whether it rings as she's walking

and she's got the phone in one hand,

she's got the teddy bear in the other

hand. Uh maybe she goes back to the dad,

gives the ba dad the teddy bear and just

says and doesn't say anything and then

flips up the phone and the phone is,

you know, it's, you know, be be there at

to where have you been? Be there at

You know, bring your Uzi. No. Uh um you

know, something or other. And she says,

and she agrees. And then if it's a if

it's one of those burner phones, she can

go like that, put it in the trash can

and and you know, as the elevator comes

up and leaves. Now, that may be too

histrionic, but I like the idea that

she's making a choice between these two

things and that it seems kind of like

this absurd choice like

that she kind of slams the gives the

teddy bear to the guy without saying

anything like you're going to need this,

but we're not going to have a

conversation about it. And that the

phone is the thing that she chooses. It

depends on on because we're breaking

from your own experience now in creating

a character and it depends on what kind

of character you want. You know, is she

because there's there's a version where

she's a vulnerable human being who got

out of prison and is trying to connect

desperately with this kid foolishly as

it turns out um um or naively um and

can't do it. Then there's a badass

version where she's going to jam in a

visit with the kid in between this other

thing she's supposed to be doing

and has to get back to it. If that's the

case, you kind of got to hum the key of

that early on

or it'll feel a little bit of a kind of

tonal

cheat at the end.

So you kind of got to give a hint of her

being. So she becomes all these

conversations about being tied down or

this or that becomes the sort of

ignorant questions of somebody who's led

a very cinder block life

and is, you know, not spent a lot of

time in hospitals with kids. She's, you

know, in this situation as opposed to an

overly concerned mother. Now you can

combine the two. She can have her be a

kind of badass who's overly concerned,

but again, it is it coming from real

worry or ignorance or both or, you know,

it's what is she? You just you just

don't want the ending to be feel like a

joke. Oh, is you know, it's it's it's a

it's that short film itis where suddenly

we're bringing in a punchline to

something where we we're answering a

question we haven't really asked.

Right. Right. I like the combo. And I

like the combo. If we're let's just say

we're going to anchor this is not going

to be a short film. This is a two-hour

movie and there's another there's a

whole another plot of somebody who's

trying to resist the person that they

used to be and is isn't able to and sort

of has to go back in because you know

because of fear because of a genuine

fear that something bad is going to

happen to her. um uh because of the

threat of it, because of needing the

money and doesn't know anything else to

do, or as an obligation that there was

someplace that she had to be in order to

to do that. So, I kind of like the

combination of the two, which is a

badass that has this other life. I think

that's interesting. As long as you can

find a way to not make it feel like, you

know, an an exercise in something, but

it's more like the irony of this person.

The more we get to know her trying to be

a mother as opposed to leading with it's

I'm such a worried mom, right? You know,

right? Have that cuz that's,

you know, worry, anger, grief, guilt,

all that stuff gets old super fast. Yep.

So, you can't overplay it. you start to

get annoyed. You know, I want to usher

the mom out of the room. The third time

she says, "Is the mask too tight?"

Right? And you want to actually maybe

she just doesn't you want to be careful.

It's part of her experience, part of her

ignorance, but we don't want to

overplay. We don't want to make her

hysterical,

right? No, I'm with you.

So, if she's worrying, and I would be

more interested in somebody who's

worried without being hysterical,

right? Oh, yeah.

And actually steps in to tighten the

mask because she doesn't feel listened

to, right? Because she's tough.

Yeah. Good. Good. good.

You know, and they're like, "Okay, maybe

you should wait outside." So, she's not

a shrinking violet. She's not

right. Yes.

You know.

Yeah. Good.

Yeah. There was a little um you know,

just you know, there's the part of

figuring out who the the actor part of

me. Um I always love the challenge of

playing two things at once. So, I love

the challenge of being playing the one

thing on the outside and then showing

you the little bits and pieces of the

stuff that's on the inside. And then the

unconscious stuff that even I don't

understand that the that the actor will

demonstrate

just through the experience without even

the without even the character

understanding their own motivations,

right? And a person who's there's

nothing better than a person who's

competent at one thing and struggling

with something else,

right? and that's fun to write, fun to

play, fun to, you know, so she's pretty

tough and, you know,

um, able to deal with a lot of

situations except this.

Yes. Yeah. All right. Well,

he continued

and I'm going to call you back later

just to ask you how it actually went.

God damn it. Why' you tell me to do that

[ __ ]

Bye.

In the beginning of getting a movie

together, uh when you finally maybe get

your green light and you're ready to go,

uh you're going to have to start

assembling a language, uh visual

language, a sound language, a musical

language, all of the different languages

that are going to come to play in your

to accomplishing your screenplay. and

you're going to start hiring people

piece by piece. You're going to have to

talk to them about what's in your heart.

What are you thinking? Um, and you can

use anything that feels comfortable to

do that. Um, sometimes you can use

images, you know, images that might have

come off of your iPhone or that might

have come from books uh at the library.

You can see that I have a bunch of of

iPhone images in the back of us that uh

I might I might put together in a little

book and show to the cinematographer or

to the production designer um about

ideas that I might have for locations or

what things would look like or colors or

framing um uh how to, you know, how how

to achieve movement, you know, ideas

that I have about movement or maybe even

just references from paintings, um

references from mythology, for example.

Um, anything that that helps you have a

dialogue um will work. It can be movies.

You can show uh ideas from films uh

moving images that you've seen. Um but

first and foremost comes the emotional

and character-driven dialogue that you

start about your movie.

I always like to use an emotional

language um to start with. So instead of

saying for example

um I'd like you to make the light bright

and uh I want you to shine it on the

actor's face and I want it to be darker

behind. I might say to start with I

might say I want a feeling of the

character being isolated. I want a

feeling of just of of being inside their

face and not and having them floating

and not really knowing exactly where

they are in the world because they're

disembodied. Um, I start with that

language and then we move into the

techniques that allow us to get there.

We're always uh translating each other.

So, um, we're always using different

languages in order to speak to each

other on a set. You have 175 people,

perhaps more that have different

expertises. Um, with a director of

photography, for example, you may speak

very differently than you might with a

with a composer. Um, that's why an

emotional language, starting with an

emotional language is always the right

place. Um I always see people sometimes

uh young filmmakers can get overwhelmed

because they think that there are they

look at the movie and they see that they

have you know a schedule of 35 days and

they have so much to accomplish and they

have so much to say and they can get

mired down in all of the technique and

the technology that they may understand

or not understand and the truth really

asking that very simple question. Is it

true or is it not true? Is it real? Is

it not real? Is this true to my

experience? Is this what I really

believe? And um that process of wanting

to communicate more of yourself towards

the other is really the most important

question that you have to ask. And

that's really the language that you use

the most.

Oh, there's a series of people that you

hire first and the list, you know,

usually starts with um just for

practicality sake. Uh maybe it'll start

with a line producer, the person who's

going to create that budget and that

schedule. Um and they are probably the

person that's going to um get involved

with bringing all of the other people to

be interviewed, all the other crew

members to be interviewed. Um the next

person probably is your production

designer and maybe your location

manager. Uh they're going to go out and

look at locations together. Um after

they've had these conversations with

you, they're going to go out places.

They're going to send you photos or

they're going to send you videos back.

Um, the production designer will usually

come to the meeting with some kind of

visual material to show you. Uh,

sometimes it's paintings, sometimes it's

stills, sometimes it's black and white

photography, even though you may not be

shooting in black and white. Next person

you bring in and that you're hoping for

is a director of photography. Uh, it's

an incredibly important position. It

works in concert with the production

designer. And um, a director of

photography really usually is, even

though they might be quite versatile,

it's they usually have a strong

signature. there's usually something

that they do that they do better than

anyone else. There's a a a style that

they're attracted to. There are some

production there's some directors of

photography they can do everything. But

I would say that in general um directors

of photography are are focused on a

certain type of storytelling. Um and you

know so that makes it easier in some

ways to go look for somebody. you're

saying like, you know, um I love how

Scorsesei uses lots of red and use lots

of color and uses all of these kind of

very self-conscious movements and and

maybe I would like to have the film feel

a little bit like um what this

particular DP was doing in that movie

and and then bring and have a look at

that person's work. Um but occasionally

you'll get a director of photography

that's just incredibly versatile and it

does every different kind of movie. Uh,

Matty Libertique and Money Monster,

wonderful DP, does every kind of film.

And really what you're looking for is

how you're going to have a conversation

with this person. Um, you know, how are

you going to communicate with this

person? And, um, is it somebody that

you're going to want to spend all this

time in the trenches with? Is it

somebody who's going to be scared to

tell you no? Uh, somebody who, uh, very

often the the director of photography

has a language that you don't possess.

Um, I don't know about you, but I really

can't read those light meters, and I

don't know what they're saying, and I

can't go to the lab and talk to them

about color temperatures. Um, I'm really

relying on him to translate those things

for me. And so, he has to be able to

really be the chief of of his own u

strange and and and fascinating but

unescribable work that he does. Um, so I

have to really rely on him that he's

going to make the right decisions. He or

she is going to make the right

decisions. After

you've um uh gone through uh really

downloaded your thoughts with all of the

technicians, um one of the first things

that I do um whether it's while we're

scouting um is that I start making a

chronological list. And that list starts

at scene one and ends at the last scene.

and I start downloading all of the

thoughts that I have all the decisions

that I've made in prep with all of my

different technicians. So, it might say,

uh, first AD, uh, we're talking 40 or 50

extras in this scene, and I want to make

sure that everybody's moving very fast

because this is a fast-paced, uh, you

know, it's a it's a racetrack, and

everybody's moving very fast to where

their destinations are. Um, or it may

say for the DP, it may say, um, let's

make sure that everything is quite

horizontal. where you're having this

very horizontal flat feeling like it's

the Midwest and uh there's nothing that

will be too high or too low or I'll say

um this is a film a film really that is

about loneliness and about a man that's

separate so I want to make sure that he

feels disembodied and that there's a lot

of um there's a lot of uh negative space

on on one side of the frame or on the

other side of the frame. So, let's keep

the right hand side of the frame

completely empty and unlit, for example.

You know, if if that's something that

I've said to the DP, I'll write that

down on my list. And pretty soon, you

start realizing that, wow, I've really

made a list from one to 100 on these on

these particular sequences. There may be

um uh the stage part, maybe if you're

building a set, maybe you don't fill all

that in because you can control things,

you can control lighting, so there isn't

you don't have to figure out everything.

Uh but you also have to know that no

matter how many of these decisions that

you've made that you've listed that you

are flexible enough that on the day

things may change. Uh once you've

finished this and you have a clear

understanding of where the film is

headed, you maybe have scouted all of

your locations, maybe you've locked in

your locations, uh you've brought your

cast together and um it's getting ready

to shoot day. Um that is when I print

out my list. I hand it over to all the

department heads so that they can be

familiar with what I'm thinking. And

sometimes I refer to it, but most often

I leave it locked in a drawer because

the surprises that I have are often more

important than the things that I've

planned. And the things that I've

planned because I wrote them down

probably live inside me anyway.

I've brought one of these kind of

inontinuity uh workbooks. uh that I hand

out to the department heads right before

I'm starting shooting. Uh I we seem to

have found one from when I was very

young for Little Man Tate. Um and this

is the first time that I ever did one of

these. Well, I'm looking in here and

then I guess it's scene 162 and onward.

Um it's a scene that I um uh that

happens in two different two separate

places. Uh Fred is separated from his

mother and he is with his teacher Jane

Greersonen. Um he has gone on a talk

show for prodigies where he's sort of

being exploited like a little young

celebrity and they're trying to make him

perform seal tricks and he

uh revolts for the first time. What I

really liked about the scene uh was this

disembodied television set that you have

this

face uh that is prisoner on a television

set. this closeup of this little boy

who's in in in prison really. Um that

he's disembodied, that he's kept from

his mother and he's he's he's he's even

kept from his u from his teacher that

he's somewhere in this limbo land. Um

you'll might see that reflected in some

of these um discussions. Maybe not. I

feel like that's what ended up on screen

and that might have been there

unconsciously, but you definitely will

see some direction uh that I was looking

for from the crew. you know, probably

the first entry for the scene, uh, you

know, is is really an overview and it

makes sense. Uh, I said the beginning of

the scene should not make a big deal out

of Fred on the TV so that we don't

expect him to blow it. So, we shouldn't

move in on Dee until much later on.

Let's keep a sense of the outside. Even

when we're inside, she's straddling

these two worlds. Um, you know, there's

there's no big words in that paragraph.

Uh, there's nothing earthshattering. Um

I there's no really technological

dialogue. I didn't talk about camera

moves or dollies or lenses. Um this was

really just a naive 26 or 27year-old

really talking about um things that I

wanted people to remember that I wanted

the director of photography to remember

that I wanted the editor to remember. Um

just so that we always had the eyes on

the prize of what the scene was really

about. Um as the years have gone on, of

course, I fill in the blanks. Uh in

terms of technique, I think I fill in

the blanks a lot thicker. Uh but in

those days at a young age I think I was

really just wanted to be very clear of

what the basics of what I was looking

for and that clarity is very helpful for

a crew. You certainly find things for

sound for example or for editing or for

the ads uh for them to remember. Um

let's see if I can find an entry that

might be of interest. Sound we should

have a click track ready for the

interior dancing. Some playback for MOS

mid out sound that should be timed in

conjunction with optimal editing. Let's

make sure that the chosen swing playback

has an easily placeable Lindy beat. Um,

you know, just these are all things that

you need to prep before you start

shooting. Um, sadly, uh, you know, you

have to know what beats the, uh,

musically things are going to land on.

Even if you're just using a playback

track that's not the final, uh, if not,

it won't edit together properly. So, you

want to make sure that what you're using

on the day in production, even though

it's not final, should have the correct

beats that you're going to need for the

final for the final uh soundtrack. Maybe

you're not a list maker. Maybe you just

in fact I I remember talking to Bob

Zmechus uh who couldn't make more

elaborate films. I mean, incredibly

complicated, lots of CGI. And he said to

me, I never write anything down. I'm

just somebody who talks and

communicates. Um his films are

incredibly wellprepared and he is

terribly thorough. and he understands

and trusts that on the day he will come

up with something and invent something

and he always does. So not everybody has

to far follow some formula of how to do

it. In fact, I would say to you, u don't

look at other people's formulas. Try to

devise your own. You know, what is your

best preparation? How do you work best?

What is your best focusing tool? And how

can you communicate more of yourself to

the people that need to hear what your

vision is?

Every choice that you make as a director

and every choice that you make as an

actor is meaningful. They're not

arbitrary. Um, I think that's the best

thing about making films. You uh choose

a a lens for a reason. You choose a

light for a reason. You choose a prop

for a reason. Occasionally, there are

things that are just instinctual that

just come out of nowhere. But for the

most part, we're trying to control the

image and we're trying to create an

evolution of the story from the

beginning to the end and to see how it

changes. So, you have to make those

decisions based on an inner monologue

that you have. Um, some of that is

structural about the structure that

you're trying to hit, but some of it is

just personal and instinctual. I think

that there's a there's a very simple way

of approaching work as an artist. Um, if

you can walk onto a set or if you can

walk on to uh out into the world and

talking to your crew, u one of the most

important questions to ask is, is it

true or is it not true? is this choice

that I'm making, these series of choices

that I'm making, do they feel real? Do

they feel honest? Do they feel true? Do

they communicate what I'm trying to say?

And um whether you're deciding

uh whether your Martian character is

going to wear a blue shirt or a green

shirt, that's really the one question

you have to ask. You know what is true

to that character.

So, we managed to drag out some

storyboards from The Beaver, uh,

executed by a much better storyboard

artist than myself, thank goodness. Um,

you'll be able to see how we constructed

quite a difficult scene. We were dealing

with, um, it is the scene where Walter

attempts suicide. He's had a night of

drinking. He's distraught. He's

depressed. and he decides to try to kill

himself uh by hanging himself on a

shower curtain rod. Um he even messes

that up and uh the shower curtain rod

falls and he is in the bathtub. He drags

the curtain rod with him out to the

balcony. Uh we notice that he still has

this puppet on his hand that he's

forgotten about. Um he drags the the the

shower curtain out to the balcony and he

climbs up onto the railing. He thinks

about his life and about that one moment

where he's about to throw it all away

and about to finally kill himself. And

the beaver puppet pops up into his face

and says, "Oi."

And at that confusion of that sends him

backwards,

falling backwards into a stunt, of

course, where he hits the television set

which comes crashing on his head and

knocks him out.

[ __ ]

mother.

boy.

We needed to storyboard that sequence

because it involves a man hanging in a

curtain ro with a over a curtain rod

falling into a bathtub. Uh dragging this

curtain rod standing over the railing of

a hotel. Obviously, this is dangerous.

Falling backwards and having a big

television set fall on his head. Uh we

needed to be very meticulous about how

this was going to be executed and how it

was going to be cut together. um

obviously to keep the actors safe, but

more importantly in order to tell the

story beats that we needed to tell as

economically as possible. So I'll grab

my storyboards.

Um

uh as you can see, we start off on the

or at least the storyboards start off on

the curtain rod and him attaching his

neck tie and we boom down into a uh

profile of Walter. Uh then I like to

jump back to this wide frame and the

film was filmed in anamorphic uh ratio,

the sort of wider ratio with these

lovely anamorphic lenses. So it allows

you to have this very uh you know

painterly vision of this distraught man

um standing in the bathtub with a

necktie attached to him. A very sad

image uh with a lot of negative space on

both sides. Um Walter's feet step up.

So, we see his feet step up onto the uh

onto the bathtub and we boom up from his

uh we have to boom up a little bit from

his feet and we go all the way to the so

that we see him uh about to hang. Uh

then we cut to a frontal where he's uh

tightening this noose. It felt important

to me to add these pieces to not have it

all play in this uh big wide shot in

this lonely wide shot. uh we need to

understand that this man is about to

commit suicide and that this is agony

for him. It's important to see that on

his face to see him be distraught. One

of the things that is of concern in this

sequence is that the film is kind of a

black comedy. Um there are black comedy

quirky elements to it. So yes, it is a

sad movie about somebody who's

attempting suicide, but we have some

quirky parts to it. So, we don't want to

have the suicide in some ways be so

histrionic or so melodramatic or so

drama oriented that we can't get back to

that little quirky black humor. Um, so

you'll see a little bits and pieces of

quirky black humor that enter in there.

Um, uh, he we we go to his feet and uh

look at the the choice that he's making.

These feet are the choice that he's

making. Do I do I step off this ridge or

not? um that allows us to go to this

extreme close-up. So, that's a

transition in between a uh a medium

close-up where we got the neck tie in.

Otherwise, we wouldn't see the necktie

if we were too tight. Uh we have a

transition piece on the feet, which

allows us to get to go into closer on

Walter. I wanted to see the choice on

his face. In order to have his head drop

out of shot, I need to be quite tight.

Um obviously, I can't show the hanging

of a man. uh even uh there there not

only would it be violence but also I

think didn't really doesn't really help

the tone of what we're trying to do. So

uh this close-up will be a close-up of

somebody and then we'll see the choice

actually happen. We'll see him drop out

of the shot. Um, we I'm not sure when we

when you see the actual sequence in the

movie, you'll see whether we kept the

whole thing or whether we cut it off

quickly, but um it allows us to have

that tension that's going to happen or

that that um uh the the movement that's

going to happen uh that happens in

seconds once he makes that decision. So,

it's very slow up at the top before he

makes the choice and then it moves into

something that has much more drama as

the choice is being made. Um, so these

are quick cuts after this of um, uh, his

feet, then of Walter hanging, but very

quickly the rod is going to give way. So

we have an insert kind of on this rod

giving way. Um, that allows us to, you

know, make these cuts be quicker, but

also gives us that almost comedy

feeling, right? So he can't even do

that, right? He can't even commit

suicide, right? Even the shower rod is

going to is going to break. You'll

notice that uh when you see the body

hanging that you have these top shots,

these kind of off-kilter top shots. Uh

we do that a lot in this movie. It's an

omnisient point of view. Um the film

very often goes to this omnisient point

of view where it's high or it's very low

because let's not forget that it's not

Walter who's narrating the film, it's

the puppet. So, the beginning of the

movie in some ways is told from the

point of view of this crazy man's

construction of a beaver puppet that's

speaking with a British accent. Our

character is not British. This is just a

construction. It allows us to have the

quirkiness and to have a little bit of

remoteness from our our narrator. We

understand that Walter has separated

himself, that he is separating himself

in order to survive. This separation is

his survival tool. And the puppet is not

Walter. It is what Walter is becoming.

The last shot which was very important

to me is I wanted this just very flat

funny shot of uh the uh Walter sitting

in the bathtub. The shower rod has

already come down. Um he's laying in the

bathtub with his feet out in this kind

of gangly pose. And before his head can

poke out, we see the beaver puppets as

if, you know, the beaver is is is kind

of crawling out of the uh of the of the

bathtub. Um, now the beaver is always on

his left hand, so there was a little bit

of a construction to that, right?

Because normally you would grab with

your right hand, but we weren't able to

do that. So we had to figure out a way

to get that left hand kind of uh coming

up. Uh when you're doing these story

boards, you always take into

consideration all of those logical

details that you cannot change. The

beaver puppet is always on his left

hand. If we are uh if we are looking

from this direction, let's say we're

looking from this opposite direction,

we're again we might as we're doing

this, you know, we might only see the

back of the beaver's head. So we always

take those things into consideration.

You know, where are the props? Where

will they match? you know, which side of

camera are we going to use in terms of

our coverage in order to figure out the

best way to get inside the experience?

We're always in this movie, always

dealing with the relationship between

Walter and his puppet on his hand. This

wide shot here not only lets you stand

back and breathe and um gives you a a

sort of a more uh clinical look at the

situation, but it also reminds you this

is slightly a comedy. The scene

continues. uh the uh there's a a kind of

a a funny cut sort of a hard cut that

happens after we leave the bathtub and

there's a time transition and we see is

a shower rod being dragged. So it's an

instant we go from a wide shot to a very

tight shot. Um this is probably a good

idea when you're uh when you're looking

at uh how to create a sequence. Um, you

don't usually go from a close insert of

something to another insert of something

else unless you're looking at details,

but usually you're going to want to go

from a wide to something that has um

that is that that that is quite a bit

tighter. That's a good transition. And

in this case, uh, the transition is sort

of a funny one. We're following the

shower rod and as we're moving, we pan

up from the shower rod to reveal that it

is attached to a man who's dragging it.

This is a pretty tough shot to get. Um,

and once again, that's why we

storyboarded it so that we could be

clear about what we were looking for.

Um, especially tough to get because

we're shooting anamorphic lenses, uh,

quite wide lenses. And in order to get

something that is on the ground and to

move up to a man's six foot height,

that's kind of a long way to go. That's

a big pan. Uh, so what we realized was

helpful was to have him walking away

from us. And so as we pan up, uh, we

he's he's walking away from us and then

he grows in the, uh, he doesn't grow in

the frame. gets smaller in the frame in

fact and we're able to contain every all

the bits of information that we need. So

here we have a story board. You're going

to see when you see the film it looks

quite a bit different when you see the

film. We got to the set and we realized

like oh well we have different

exigencies and we have to be flexible.

We're not just going to get stuck to our

storyboard. We're going to look at the

real location and see what we can do

once we have a lens in place.

Um, there's a sequence at there's a shot

at the end of this where he looks down

and he sees parked cars as if, oh boy,

this is this is where I'm going to fall

to. So, we have Walter in this very um

very kind of lonely profile. He's making

his choice and there's a kind of

romantic shot where the the camera

starts here and moves around to the

front of his face. and um as he's about

to make that decision once again. If you

remember, he made the decision in order

to hang himself in the bathtub. But that

decision was a little quicker and

funnier. This one is going to be a

little has a little more tension to it.

This is one is going to be a little bit

sadder. This is this could be the final

one. Um and we move around his face to

that final decision. And up pops the

beaver puppet who I believe says, "Oi."

And um

uh the beaver puppet pops into frame. So

that's the surprise. Um it turns his

head. So we've already made a decision

that he's going to turn his head. And uh

that head turn motivates

um an over the shoulder from the

beaver's point of view that uh has a

beaver a piece of the beaver in the

shot. So that's your over the shoulder

and uh Walter looking at him in a

surprised way. And that allows Walter to

fall out of the frame. Okay. So now the

camera can't see him so that we can then

transition into a wider shot that will

be either um that probably might be a

stunt man um where the stunt man is from

the back and he's falling towards the

camera. So, one of the ways to get to a

stunt shot where you're going to have a

stunt man, uh, or a shot that's, um, you

know, has all the movement to it is to

cut from a tighter shot that allows the

actor to fall out of frame. His falling

movement will then transition into the

falling movement of the next shot.

Uh, we have a closeup of the television

set. Um,

I don't remember. Oh, the television

set, I believe, is playing the Sex

Pistols. I'm pretty sure that's You

might not catch that, but I believe that

the television set is playing the Sex

Pistols. U as you know, the Beaver is

British, and there was a little illusion

to that that somehow he's being

clobbered by the British Sex Pistols,

and maybe that's, you know, what changed

his mind about what accent that he would

have. Um the uh the the television set

comes towards the camera as if the

camera's point of view is Walter's point

of view. a reaction shot on Walter as he

sees the TV set coming towards us and

then we we're able to go to black from

that. I very very specifically worked

this out with Kyle Kllin, the writer on

the Beaver and um he he really thought

through the how the sequence would be

built about when he falls and we took

into consideration the exigencies of the

camera and what we were going to need

for the stunts and then we rewrote the

script accordingly. And the reason that

I do that and the reason that I always

if I have information, I really do like

to download it onto the script is that

150 people are going to arrive on a

Monday morning who may not be privy to

all the conversations that you've had

and they're going to have to bring to

the table their expertise. They're going

to have to bring props. They're going to

have to bring uh uh paper towels to mop

things up if there's a water glass that

goes over. They're going to have to uh

the uh set decorator is going to have to

have multiple TV sets. Uh maybe there's

going to be a a false TV set that that

won't really hurt the actor or the

shards are not real shards. You know,

there are any number of things a quest

uh uh tools that we're going to need and

they have to have all of this

information. So the writer and I would

start out by working through the exact

mechanics of how this is going to be

applied onto screen. Then we bring all

of the other department heads in and

then we create a document uh which is

the scripts. We also create a second

document which is the storyboards. Uh a

third document which is our shot list, a

fourth document which is me talking

about what I was hoping for from the

movie and what I was hoping to get out

of it. And anybody who's doing their

homework and paying attention is going

to have all of these documents to be

able to pull from and say, you know,

what type of TV set should I get? What

type of shag carpeting would there be in

this hotel room? Um what what's playing

on the TV and why is it playing that? So

all of these choices are hopefully made

in prep and then you arrive on the day

and if you are incredibly prepared and

organized the actor only has to do the

scene a few times. We do it very very

fast so that the actor is there has

their moment and we are there expertly

to capture it. I believe that this

sequence is pretty close to what we had

storyboarded. That's not always true. I

storyboard very little uh because I

don't necessarily always think in a

storyboard way. I'd rather get into the

locations, look at the locations, look

at the actors, and figure out what the

scenes are and think about it through

the characters point of view. But

storyboards can be helpful, especially

for the rest of the crew. Once you see

the scene, you know, hopefully you fall

into it and you don't notice all the

little bits and pieces that it took to

get

So, after our last discussion, Scott

went away like a busy little elf and

wrote a brand new draft that has a lot

of changes to it. Um, I would say the

biggest change is that the character has

a kind of badass quality to her. She's

somebody who's definitely lived and

she's more hardened and tougher and um

we're going to be be able to see kind of

the different layers of covering that

she has. Um she he also wrote a scene, a

lovely little scene with the little boy

uh where they get to have a little

moment together and um kind of a

different ending where there's a new

character that that uh that is a spectre

of of uh that shows us that she has a

history of some issues with her parents,

etc. Um so if you haven't seen it yet,

you'll be seeing it after this

discussion that I have with Scott, who I

have on the phone right now. Um I'm

going to walk him through some of the

changes. Uh, some of these changes will

also reflect um a view towards shooting

and trying to be economical because you

can't have everything that you were

hoping for. Um, all right. Hi, Scott.

Hello. What do you mean you can't have

everything that you were hoping?

Well,

not today.

Not today.

Not today. Um,

all right. I'm ready. One of the things

I was thinking about, I noticed the

other day I had to go uh to the uh e or

hospital and I noticed that they do a

lot of paperwork they do on computers

and uh most of it maybe would already be

filled in. So I was thinking that

instead of uh the first the woman's

voice comes in over black, maybe the

first thing she says is um you didn't

fill in your address.

Um

uh I thought it might be a good idea to

have Amy answer something a little more

vague like huh instead of no just so

it's uh it's almost as if she's just

waking up because we go from black

unceremoniously to a big wide close-up

so that there is just this uh almost

sorry confused you know just like huh

like what are you saying?

Uh then the woman might repeat it again

your address. Uh that would get us into

um Amy confirming that she's between

residences right now.

Um

so I thought maybe a way around the

curse of the emergency room uh research

problem was

uh when Amy says uh it was a [ __ ]

emergency. Maybe the next thing she says

is he keeps getting sick. And this would

be consistent with uh toxlectomies is

usually one of the reasons why you have

to bring them in for surgery is that

they just keep getting sick over and

over again. They can't get rid of the

infection.

Well, here's my question for you because

the parents show up at the end. It's

sort of I thought she just grabbed this

kid for, you know, a few days

and that she's not had him for a long

time that he got sick. She didn't know

what to do with him. So she brought him

to the hospital and the kid may have

told her I've had tonsillitis 16 times

already or whatever.

And then I mean what I was thinking is

that she may have information about him

but she may not have been able to see

him that much. So she may you know know

that um you know he has a new teacher in

school but she hasn't seen him or she

may have pieces of information without

having actually spent a lot of time with

him.

Um, but this is her opportunity to have

a special day. Um,

maybe she's been watching.

Oh, interesting. Yeah, that's a thought.

Cool. Let's bring that in. Um, on page

two where you have, "Has he been given

anesthesia before, have the nurse ask a

second time in a different way

to say, you haven't given him

medications of any kind?" Um, and then

have Amy have a hint of being slightly

insulted. Uh, the reason I was thinking

about that was just that we almost would

get a feeling that the nurse didn't

trust her to do it right

and she's going to ask her twice to make

sure that she hasn't given her

medications. It also brings up the drug

question. So, for me as a mom, if I was

already sensitive to the idea that

people think I'm a drug addict or that

I'm irresponsible, if somebody said to

me twice, "You sure you haven't given

him any medications?" I might be

slightly more insulted. That no might be

slightly more insulted

for technical reasons because um

somebody's going to make a noise in the

waiting room and the boy's going to wake

up for a second. It might be a good

opportunity to throw a little line for

the nurse in there where she says, you

know, initial here, initial here,

initial here, so that while Amy is doing

the job of initialing,

uh, she can tell tell her her next

worry. You know, are they going to tie

him down? I have a cut for you on the

top of page three. Tell me if you think

this is a good idea. I would just cut

those first two lines.

Good for you, but it could happen. Yes,

anything could happen, but it's not very

likely. And it's a very short procedure,

maybe 15 minutes. Um, we're going to

find out that the procedure is short

later on. Um, and

it might just be one beat too many.

Okay,

I had a cut here, too. The next line is,

um, yes, I was incarcerated. That's that

what you want to ask. I just sort of

feel as an actor that it's better for

that moment to play

silently. Um, if we are placing this

movie in the mi, this scene in the

middle of a movie, we'll know where she

was beforehand. So, um, I think it might

just be gilding the lily a little. When

you have enlarged tonsils, it does make

you snore. So, instead of So, what I

would change here

Oh, I got it reversed.

Yeah. So, I would change at the top of

the page, I would change um, you know

what you know what else happens? you get

your tonsils out, you stop snoring. And

then, uh, maybe she makes like a snoring

sound into his neck a little bit. Um,

uh, then I thought it would be cool if

Lucas says, "Uh, grandma snores, too."

Amy's next line might be, "Yep, she

does." What I got out of that line is

that what I got out of those two lines

is the little boy is a little thinking

about the grandma who he's really has

been living with. And um you know how

kids are always obsessed with whoever it

is that that is their primary caregiver.

And um that's Amy's mom. So she knows

that she snores.

She's slightly hurt that Lucas is

thinking about someone else when he's

with her.

Not that you have to write that in

there. That's to play that part.

On page six, I would lose the [ __ ]

It's too [ __ ] tight. I lose the

[ __ ] just there cuz we're going to

get [ __ ] later. Um, halfway through

when Amy says,

"I'm not your [ __ ] mom," which I

love. Uh, I would just add Under her

breath.

Uh, the reason for that just is to let

it build. I mean, kind of let it kind of

let her simmering build throughout the

scene. So, if she gets too aggressive in

the beginning of the scene, I feel like

I got no place to go as an actor.

Uh, you know, this part where it says,

"And now half the kids in the room are

sitting up and screaming."

I thought I thought maybe um

there might be something fun if she's if

when we cut back and and he's he's in

the recovery room and he's and she's

lying next to him or she's sitting there

next to him listening to him breathing

that she gets just like a weird sound

that she hears a weird sound. Uh maybe

is that is it a scream? Is it a moan? Is

it something happening over to her right

and she doesn't quite know what it is?

Then maybe she hears another sound or

she'll see a nurses running, not running

but hurrying over there. Um, and then

her kid kind of pops into frame. So,

it's like she doesn't quite know what's

happening and then suddenly her kid

starts doing it, too. So, we get this

anticipatory tension of um

Mhm. I like that

it's about to happen.

Um, oh, by the way, I really love the um

how you just smashed into that uh

flashback. It may or may not work.

Flashbacks are things that we hate hate

and love, and you may end up cutting

them out, but um as long as you're

dreaming, it works really well when it's

something that's just a smash cut. um

that allows you into a moment that

you're not quite ready for that feels

super violent and confusing the way the

character would be feel violated and

violent and confused and ragefilled. Um

just that smash of blood and smattering

and people you know running crashing

that should be probably from her point

of view because it is her memory. So

even if it isn't technically from her

actual point of view of what she's

looking at, you can use the confusion of

the moment. Uh maybe you go from uh you

know the wound on her stomach with a

shaky camera, handheld camera, wound on

her stomach to her face or you know this

the a hand coming through the frame just

something that makes it jagged and

confused and and that's what you've

written. So

yay. Thank you.

Oh, so older woman walks in. She says,

"We're here now." I think it might be

good if she says also says, "You can

go." They usually like to have only one

parent at a time in the recovery room

because it's too confusing for the

doctors and the kids and the other

people.

Um,

right. We had talked about that. I just

forgot about it.

No, no, that's cool. Then

despite all my stellar note takingaking,

the second line to the bottom, Amy said,

"I'm his mother." I would add, "For

[ __ ] sake," at the end of that just to

give her a little attitude.

Um, the reason I like the attitude is

that then the older mo the older woman

shuts her down and uh puts her in her

place immediately and uh that'll silence

her and it'll make her feel vulnerable

after she's had that badass quality.

We're almost at the end.

Um oh, on page nine, uh if we add in an

again on the first line, it would read,

"You didn't even know he was sick again.

Uh, we could even, you know, she can

even say, "He told me he gets sick all

the time. He told me he's been sick for

weeks." Uh, something that's almost

accusatory. So, it's like,

well, I have another I have another

thought.

What's that?

Which is maybe we're making it too

hard here. In other words, you could

have a mother who was in prison, who got

out of prison, who gets to see her kid,

but only gets to see her kid on the the

grandparents are now guardian, legal

guardians,

right?

And so she gets to see the kid once in a

while. So she takes the kid away and she

brought him in to this surgery. They

didn't know that she was here for the

surgery. So it's not an emergency. She

brought him in. She could have organized

it without without asking them properly.

Yeah. Let me um let me play with that.

There's something there.

Good.

Um then um I I like I kind of like the

idea that she's sort of surprised that

dad's here too. It's like she's not

prepared or something. And then I get a

little feeling of like what's the deal

with the dad? Like why is he special?

And why is there

I don't have the answers right now, but

there's something nice.

She's afraid that he's there and that

she has to see him.

Yeah.

It's more that she finds out he's there

and Oh,

yeah. Exactly. So, so uh instead of us

is dad here, maybe it would be what?

Dad's here, too.

Um I have a little bit of a extra zinger

on the last line of the older woman. Uh

or the second to the last line for the

older woman. She says, "Please, Amy,

just go. All you ever do is all you ever

do is make things worse." or something

like that. Something that is is more

definitive and is more cutting and is

actually really true. Um that she'll

have to that Amy will have to own up to

as a kind of disappointment in herself

or at least in her past self.

Yeah, I have no other notes.

I think that there's a lot of questions

that this begs because we're trying to

get a dramatic energy from a from being

flatfooted at the beginning. Yes.

So, it's an emergency room. So, it's so

what do you sacrifice in terms of logic

or reality in terms of giving it a kind

of energy? But does if you give it that

energy and you sacrifice the logic and

the reality, is the audience doing math?

Are they wondering instead of being in

it, are they sitting there asking

questions? So you're trying to find that

balance so that people are kind of

carried along and maybe

you know this isn't exactly right but it

feels right.

It all feels right as long as it doesn't

feel wrong and people don't bump. So the

trick in this last pass now that I kind

of have a handle on who she is because

it all comes from character

is to go through it and make sure it

follows all of those ideas and then she

at the end she's rejected and we need to

feel um her sense of rejection

right

and her sense of okay I'm going to go

I'm trying to do this good thing where

there's this bad thing which we haven't

really talked about in my ear the whole

time.

You know, I get rejected by the good

things. So, [ __ ] it. I'm going to go do

that. Which is a simplistic but human

thing.

And what helped me last time is when you

said I didn't realize you were going to

play this part where I deliberately

ignored that.

So, um I went, "Oh, okay. I know how to

I know how to write her." And so, that

helped me. And so I think now that I

have a handle on on hearing her, I think

the next step would be to organize it

just so that it has its own little flow.

It's super clean. It's it's it's super

clean and I don't know that you need to

say too much and there's a lot of lines

that you might be able to do that you

could do with looks,

right? Yeah. The work uh that we've done

is really, you know, looking at the

script kind of line by line and and

looking at it through the lens of a

character's point of view and um uh

figuring out where she starts in the

beginning of these scenes that we've uh

you've come up with to where she ends in

the end. You know, what are the changes?

What are the what are the things and

what are the layers of covering of how

she presents on the outside, how she's

actually feeling on the inside, and what

might not even be known to her

unconsciously. So, you know, the the

good news about this experience that

we've had is that

I like I like the script you wrote. So,

um we're uh we're unfortunately not

showing the students that part of the

process where you look at the pages and

you're like, "This sucks. Rip it in half

and start all over again." You know,

that

that's called my process in general.

That's

You got to do that on your own sitting

at your desk

all the time. Yeah. I mean, I think

there's there's so many things that you

can go over. There are different passes.

There's the pass where you go over the

script to keep track of the character

and what their motivation is and make

sure. Motivation is a weird thing. I

like to just say, are they behaving the

way they would in that situation, not

because the script says so? You know,

are they being true to who we've

defined? There's nothing worse than

watching two characters arguing with

each other for no reason, you know, or a

character going along with something.

Why would he or she ever go along with

that? Well, because the screenwriter

needs them to, you know, go into the

basement. Yeah.

Whatever it is. So, so, um, so there's

that, but then there's also where you go

through the script and you talk about

transitions and you talk about pace and

you talk about visual ideas and

directors. There's so many things you

can talk about. And the more a director

knows, I find, the more helpful it is.

And I find the more that they have in

their head, the more they can download

to me, the the more helpful it is. And

it and I find that that stuff even as as

practical or visual as it might be works

its way into the story because the you

know the movie storyteller in me wants

to accommodate these ideas.

Well I think the script is really

working. So um I mean just on my end I

think the reason that it's working is

that it has a very clear character whose

point of view it is. Um we really get a

sense that this is Amy's story and that

we're following her dramatically and

emotionally. Um, I have the kind of

emotional resonance that I was hoping

for. Uh, I I I understand what this

moment is of wanting to be a good mom

and but everything that you've done in

your life in some ways is,

you know, makes people believe that

you're not and you're fighting for

you're you're fighting to to, you know,

to be that person that you were hoping

that you were going to be. Um, I feel

like it, you know, just in the small uh

little bits that that you've written

that we I get a real clear picture of

what this family dynamic is. For me, I

understand the uh tone uh what it lives

in. For me, it feels raw and real. I

think if anything um you want to not be

distracted by too many um too much

artifice or too much uh self-conscious

film making uh references or decisions

and you want you kind of want to let the

reality of it play out. Um so that the

film making that is there um the

decisions that you do make as a

filmmaker are really helpful to focus

the audience where you want them to

focus to help them feel to guide them in

the direction that you're hoping for but

not in a way that feels manipulative or

um artificial.

I mean I I think I can do better. I

think that the yarn the yarn isn't quite

there because I care about for me what

is the yarn I'm telling you what is the

story? What are we spinning? And I feel

like it's a little non-specific in a

couple of places, you know, and where

where it starts and where it ends. I

want it not to feel it's it's a little

too much airing on the slice of life

side and not enough on the larger than

life size.

So, um,

that's where the next and that's my

process, by the way. They're all long

and flat and the dialogue is

serviceable. And then once I understand

what it is, I go back in and I I shape

it and shape it and, you know, fine-tune

it and over and

So, what what what do you think makes

the best screenwriter director

collaboration? Obviously, every director

is different and you've worked with so

many amazing directors and you have to,

I'm sure, turn yourself into a pretzel

for some of them.

Well, I think these are shotgun

marriages, as I often say. you know,

you're thrown into this intense

situation and you've just spent all this

time with something and now somebody

usually, most often the director comes

in later in in the process and now they

have their own ideas and it can be

rejuvenating. It can be inspiring to

have somebody see into your world and

have these ideas that make it better.

Um, ideally it's one and one is three

once the the director comes on. So that

you hope, like with all relationships,

that you both want the same thing. And

you may disagree about specifics, tiny

specifics. If we're talking about under

her breath and things like that, that's

fine. But if you're talking about huge

character issues and the direction of

the story and the tone in particular

because a lot of directors don't

understand that the tone you might have

or you might just have a simple

disagreement but if you're all if you're

in sync I find that I try to to you know

in every department let the racehorse

run and see what people want to do and

try and understand what they're trying

to say and then you know process it and

because you can be defensive and but

then you're killing the conversation.

You're not enabling collaboration. And I

may be listening to something I know I

disagree with or have an issue with, but

I want to see where they're going.

Sometimes I'll be so instantly annoyed

though and I will I will make the

mistake of jumping on something. And

when you know when you get jumped on,

you shut down. So now you're both I'm

annoyed, they're defensive, there's no

conversation. So it's better to just

take it in and and listen and and try

and understand where they want to go.

Yes, full agreement. I've worked with a

lot of writer directors and um you know

sometimes it's the best possible

scenario, right? It's a real our the way

you work and sometimes I find as an

actor I find that um you know especially

inexperienced writer directors is that

they tend to feel like the movie is that

idea that they had in their hotel room

when they were all by themselves and

especially writers who are really used

to sitting in a room and typing all by

themselves and laughing hysterically at

what they've written. Um they you know

movies don't work that way. They're 125

people. Um, also some writers really get

bogged down in uh dialogue and structure

because those are the two big

components. And um they it's hard for

them to be free enough to to to to see

that movies aren't really about what

people say. Uh they're about behavior

and um about complexity and about um how

people do things that are against their

nature. Sometimes um it's hard for them.

Sometimes they get very syllogistic and

it's hard for them to see that human

behavior doesn't always work so

syllogistically. You know, sometimes

people just do something because they're

impulsive and you know it's out of their

pattern

to do all those things and to convey all

those things. And what's so difficult

about screenwriting is you only get two

senses. You get sight and sound and

that's it. And so it's very very

difficult to convey all of that stuff

with just sight and sound. And I think

what gets lost in the conversation

because I understand a writer's

frustration if they don't feel um

understood because what they're focusing

on is the specifics of the thing. You

know, I wanted a blue shirt. This is

what I think she should have. Well,

instead of you you there's a different

kind of deeper intention that they're

talking about and the conversation. What

is it? What? And if and there are times

where changing the dialogue changes

really changes the intention. And there

are times for me whether I'm just

writing or writing and directing where

um someone will change it and it will be

better. There are times where they'll

change it and it will be worse and

that's not okay. And there are times

where they'll change it and it's just

different. And that's also not okay cuz

why change it just to change it. But I'm

doesn't mean that I'm not open to change

because an actor may may figure out a

way to do it in a way I didn't think

about and their first instinct might

actually be really interesting or it

might be to to do it without the

dialogue which is almost always

something worth pursuing. Um so it's

this this what gets lost in the fight to

control is the idea of what is the

intention and what is the story and

let's keep telling each other the story

instead of fighting over minutia. We'll

keep telling each other the story and

see if we both still see the same story

and talk about the characters and and

motivation and you both

what's what's behind everything and I

think those conversations even if you're

at odds sometimes are fruitful.

Yep. Yeah. Even as an actor working with

a script I mean sometimes something has

resonance for me personally and some

some things don't. So, for example, when

I'm given a story uh uh in in The

Beaver, I was given a story. Um the

writer had kind of gave me a story about

I was trying to convince my husband of

something and I was telling him about

that story. Remember when we were

remember when we were on the Colorado

River and our son fell in and and you

fished him out and he was stopping wed

and then the ambulance came? there was

this whole long story, but the story was

so

required me to think so much and it

required the other characters to think

so much that it wasn't emotional to me

and I wanted it to not be about the

writing. So the story that I said to the

writer, I said, you know, I need this

story where I say, remember when our son

was born and he was so small

and you picked him up and he was so

small that there was something so um uh

not literary, not intellectual about

that kind of resonance that that had for

me. And it allowed the audience to enter

into the movie in a way where they

didn't have to be thinking, they could

just be feeling what the character was

playing. And that that sometimes those

are my problems with writer directors is

that it's hard for me to explain to them

why words get in the way

anyway

they can but that give and take is a

healthy give and take and I don't think

people need to be afraid of it. I don't

think they need to be threatened by

especially if it comes from a place of

people are trying to interpret what

you're doing and because there are so

many people you need and we don't all

get infinite budgets and can't do

hundreds of takes and spend as much time

as we want. So we can get it exactly the

way we see. It's very hard. You want to

just there's that sweet spot where you

feel what you know you need to feel. And

for me that's that's that feels good

enough. not like even a compromise that

feels like it's actually working.

I think we both have the same

understanding of what's at the heart of

this this um Get Not a Shorty

movie that we've created.

Yeah. I mean, I I don't feel I think

there are specifics that we may disagree

on, but how important is it to the

overall what matters? and I'll speak up

if I think something will actually work

against what I think you want to do. But

this is this is a job I'm doing to serve

a vision you have. Was your idea was

your so I'm actually you know the gigger

here coming in and trying to to execute

something you have very specifically in

your head which is a slightly different

thing than something I've created and

we've come together on. Well, but it's

also grown from my original memory that

I brought to the table. I mean, that's

the beautiful part of the process is

that it moves and shapes and evolves and

you bring the next person into the

puzzle and you know, we're going to

bring the location scout, they're going

to bring the production designer,

they're going to bring the DP. Everybody

brings their their their life story to

the table and suddenly you have this

organic character that started with an

idea that you had, this big idea that

you had that has now changed and shaped

and evolved. And um I think that's the

most beautiful thing about making movies

is not I don't want to make one movie in

a in my hotel room all by myself. I

really love the sharing process of

watching this child that we've created

together grow and change in ways that

I'd never anticipated. It's really a

joyful thing.

Yeah. And I think the the the line is

there's a tricky line that you're

walking when you're working with a

director or even with producers or

studio. You're always trying to improve

it. And this happens on the set, too,

where you're trying to improve a scene,

but you can improve it into a failure.

You know, you see it in the cutting

room, too, where you're cutting and

fixing it and fixing it and fixing it,

and you've just fixed it into a mess.

And so, you're it's tricky walking that

line. And and so you have to have a give

and take. And if your ego is another

factor in all that and and mine

frequently is I don't want to dismiss

sometimes, you know, I I feel a kind of

ownership and I don't want to compromise

just to be a good boy. I've done that

too. So you're walking a line between

this is what I really believe and also

trying to be available to these other

ideas that might actually be great. It's

a it's all very very hard and you can

only it just takes it's a constant

practice. It's like meditation.

You're just always practicing. You never

master it.

It's a it's a meditation. I think that's

a theme that's come up a lot which is

this sort of meditation about balance.

On the one hand it's structure. On the

other hand it's freedom. On the one hand

it's you know being sure about what you

have and you know fighting for it. And

on the other it's like be flexible and

give and take. I mean, it is this just

balance it back and forth. And I guess

that you just got to put your tennis

shoes on and just keep doing it enough

to to appreciate what that how that

feels to balance those two things

and accept that being out of balance

isn't a larger message that everything's

wrong. It just means that the

conversation continues.

Yep.

Bye, Scott. Thank you again for doing

this with us. Love you, too. Bye.

Well, we're going to figure out how to

construct a scene. Um, it's uh

impossible to do that without knowing it

in the context of the whole film. Um,

but we're going to really we're going to

make some decisions early on. Uh,

decisions about tone, about style. Um, I

see this really more as an indie film.

Um, we're not going to have a lot of

money. We're going to have to be

economical. Um, and this story is well

served by that genre. Uh, well served by

knowing that you have constraints and

um, it'll allow it to have a kind of

rawness and a sort of a reality, a kind

of gritty reality that really reflects

that particular character. The struggle

of a woman who has just gotten out of

prison who's, you know, trying

desperately to have, you know, to be a

mom, the mom that she was hoping to be,

but she keeps getting dragged into

crime. I work a little differently

because I've spend my life in front of

the camera as opposed to behind it. And

uh when I imagine a scene, when I

imagine the construction of a scene, I

very often imagine it as if I was the

actor in the scene. So I will imagine

myself as each one of the characters.

I'll imagine myself uh in this case,

I'll imagine myself as the as the mom,

as Amy, I'll imagine myself as the

nurse. And then perhaps later on if we

ever looked at other scenes, I imagine

myself as the child, as the

anesthesiologist, as the second nurse,

etc. Um, and that's kind of how I might

construct a scene like this. I usually

don't do storyboards except for

elaborate shots, uh, where there might

be stunts or where there might be very

difficult camera moves or where it's

very important for the crew to

understand the the the sequence of of

shots and how exactly how they will play

inside the film. Don't get too caught up

in controlling and manicuring every

single shot because a it will change.

You will get there and there is such a

thing as a location which is different

than what you had in your mind. There

were actors there. There are other

exiencies whether it's lens sizes etc

that you may not be able to u know

about. But more importantly, you will

waste a lot of time on a detail that uh

you will not be open to the rest of the

myriad of things that you'll have to be

connecting with. So the way this

particular script is written, um it

comes in with a very hard cut. I mean,

you're hearing something over black and

you have a hard cut of a woman's face.

Um and then even as it's written, even

as Scott has imagined it, we pull back a

little bit to reveal uh more of the

environment that this woman is in. um

her face is perhaps looking directly

into camera. That's a device that I like

to use actually. It's very connective

and interesting um to have a a character

looking directly into the camera. It's

sort of almost upsetting to the audience

uh to be stared at like that. It works

very well in a scene like this where

she's has very few lines. She just

answers huh or no. Um and then uh we're

disoriented at the fact that she's

looking directly at us. Um, so that

first shot, uh, knowing that we're going

to be pulling back, we will end up at

probably a medium shot. So, I'm a

terrible drawer. Maybe we'll end up on

that. But maybe we started

here.

Or maybe we even started extremely

close. Maybe we started on their eyes.

So, we started on the eyes and then we

came this far. And then we came back

here and then it widened out into that.

So I might just make a dumb little arrow

that tells you that the camera is uh

coming backwards. If we were to make

that as a list, and this is probably the

first shot, as a list, it's very clearly

would be um closeup

on Amy,

pull back

to medium,

close, closeup.

And I would I would tell you where I was

hoping to end because if you have a

movement in the shot, you're going to

want to end that moment um strategically

end on the line that you're hoping to

end on. Uh the line I was hoping to end

on, I think, was um uh emergency

Oh, I might have to put my glasses on.

The line I was hoping to end on is

emergency room, right? So, I would put

end on emergency room,

right?

Um, as we pull back from a close-up,

whether we decide to go to an extreme

close-up on her eyes or whether it's a

little bit wider, as we pull, I think

probably a little bit wider. As we pull

back, what we're going to reveal is

there's a waiting room with a bunch of

people behind her, and we're going to

see what's off to her right or left

shoulder. I've specifically made this a

center frame. when your when your actor

is looking directly into the lens, uh

there's something kind of um specific

about having a center frame um that that

that really feels like the the actor and

the the camera are sort of one. Um now,

normally there's another person sitting

there, right? There's somebody sitting

across from her. There's a nurse that's

sitting across from her. I've

purposefully kept this quite close so

that we don't this is not an over-

the-sh shoulder. We're not seeing a

piece of the woman behind her.

uh in front of her. Um now I'm probably

going to want to move to another shot

that will tell me a little bit where I

am and that will tell me that there is

somebody in front of her that's

speaking. Um three lines of dialogue I'm

feeling is probably as much as I'm going

to be able to get away with without

having to cut out before I start seeing

like, hey, where am I? Am I in a

hospital? Is there another person

talking to her? And who is that person?

So, um, and those three lines that Amy

has are no, uhhuh. So, they're small

pieces of dialogue. The second she

starts talking a lot and having a real

conversation with somebody, I'm going to

want to see who that other person is.

So, I think for all intents and

purposes, our second shot, I think I'd

probably make it a wider shot, but from

the other side. So, now I would see the

nurse would be more frontal to me. So,

here I am. I'm Amy. Um, we've just

pulled back. I do a lot of this as an

actor and a director when I'm on set.

And uh, the rest of the crew seems to

understand very well. The camera is

pulling back this way. They stop after I

say emergency. We're probably about this

tight. The next shot will probably be

from over there. And we'll be able to

see the desk. We'll be able to see the

nurse behind it. We'll be able to see

maybe a cross that will happen so that

we know that this is a a hospital where

there's crossing and there's things

happening. Um, I see that shot as being

slightly higher, sort of looking down on

the experience so that we know that

there's this is a table that has things

on it. We're going to find out uh we're

going to find out in this shot that

she's holding a child. You know what? We

may have seen that in that other medium

shot. We may have seen the little bit of

his head if his if his head is high

enough up to her that we may have seen

that there's a she's holding a child in

her arms. Uh but if not, we're going to

see it in this next shot. So, a desk

and this is um her. Oh gosh. Let's say

we're going to make the nurse look like

this. And she's going to be a little bit

bigger because she's closer to us. Um

I'd say maybe she's more like that.

And um maybe there's somebody over here.

Maybe we'll see a cross happen. So this

will all just say there's a cross of

somebody that comes through the frame.

Um, I see the camera as uh uh probably

being well, he's probably off the grid,

but let's just say the camera is is over

in this section here. So that the camera

sees uh well, actually, I'm going to

take that back. I'd say the camera is

probably over here so that the camera is

able to see everything that happens on

this side and is able to see the cross

go into frame. One of the things we

haven't talked about um well first of

all I'll say this is a sort of higher

angle

wider shot

with cross

um

sees both

nurse frontal

and Amy's back.

I'm somebody that tends to think

simultaneously. So, um, as I'm designing

each shot, I'll think about things like,

uh, okay, so who who's crossing? And,

um, um, that really is the department of

my first assistant director. He's the

one who's going to be controlling the

extras that are crossing. Uh, and then,

you know, we might have a conversation

subsequent to this about saying like,

you know, what are they dressed in? Are

they nurses? U, what is the diversity of

the of the waiting room? Are the kids

that are sitting there, are they

children? Is this a pediatric place? Um,

everybody that looks at these or that

talks to me through the shots are going

to have questions. They're going to say,

"How many extras?" They're going to say,

"What is the color scheme?" I see this,

for example, as something that feels

flat and drab. I don't see any big hints

of color. Maybe there'll be a piece of

color uh where there's um a sign on the

wall that says, uh, you know, if you if

somebody stops breathing, this is how

you do CPR. But in general, I would keep

this these these tones kind of cool and

um and flat. Uh, this is a flat world.

This is a world where people don't have

money. This is a world of somebody who's

coming out of prison and is stuck with

all of the problems that of of everyday

life that might be difficult for her to

handle. She's also somebody who's in the

middle of a crime story. So, um, these

are going to be hard edges.

Um, the next shot we want probably is we

want to go back to Amy. Um, I would

probably do two sizes on this shot. I

would keep it a u you know sort of a

medium close-up and have a tighter size

as well. Um I in this case I would not

suggest doing two cameras at once. I

know this lots of people talk about

doing two cameras at once. There are

times where it helps you in terms of

time especially if you have a child or

if you have a piece of action that can't

be replicated but it does not help you

in this situation because the person's

ey line will be off camera. Um, if we

are using longer lenses, that means that

this over the shoulder, so this messy

medium closeup is going to have a piece

of somebody in it. Um, in this case,

it'll have a piece of the nurse in it.

Let's see. She's on she's on that side.

So, here's a piece of the nurse. I'm

just going to say it's a piece of her

head. I'm going to draw her head there.

Um, it might be too big, but And then

I'm going to put Amy

here.

And uh we might want to widen out

actually so that we have a piece of the

child um because um we're going to want

to see that kid and if we can and we

have to when we get when we're there on

the day we're going to have to figure

out whether the head can be high enough.

It would be very awkward for you to hold

the child like this so that they're

close to your face. So that we may

actually have to loosen up a bit just so

that we can make sure that we have a

good frame that has the child in the

frame. Um so put the child here for

example. um or maybe even a little bit

closer. Um so I would say two sizes

static

uh medium

over the shoulder

plus a

uh single

uh the medium of the shoulder will be

with child or let's say with Lucas.

Um, here's another question. Um, when

you're using uh when you use a style

that's a little bit more raw, you might

want to have the camera that's uh a

handheld camera, but that is being held

confidently. So, we'll have a sense that

there's a a little movement to the shot.

Uh, not like a radical handheld

movement, uh, but just a little sense

that there's a little floaty quality to

it. That gives it a sort of indie raw

feeling to it. But it also means that

you're that you're going to want to be

consistent with that. You don't want to

have start out with something that's

very classical and composed and there's

a dolly and then suddenly moved into a

little bit of a shaky handheld quality.

That would mean that our first shot is

also going to be that shaky handheld

quality. And that might not work so well

with the pullback. That's something that

I'll have to discuss with the DP when we

get there. That shaky camera feeling is

going to give you uh not only is it

going to give you the rawness and the

reality, but it's going to give you

tension. Um don't forget her phone is

ringing. Somebody's trying to get a hold

of her. Um, she's trying to be lured

back into this life of crime. This is

something that she's fitting in. It's an

emergency that she's fitting in and

there's something else that's pulling

her attention. So, that kind of shaky

camera quality I think feels like it's

the right thing. I would do uh next

we're going to do a matching size on the

nurse. We It's going to feel looser on

the nurse because she doesn't have a

child that she's holding. So, um her

medium shot is going to feel like a

little bit looser. And I think that's

okay that the sizes don't match because

Amy is our main character. The way that

I come up with screen direction is I say

I'm the nurse,

the camera is here.

That means the camera is over this

shoulder. That means when I'm Amy, the

camera is on this side of me. And

usually when I try to ex when I try to

talk about screen directions, I run

around to the other side of the I run

around to the other side of the table. I

sit in the seat and I say, "The camera's

on this shoulder." When you're an actor

and you get very used to working with a

camera, you remember what side of the of

your shoulder the camera was on on each

side. So the camera's on this side when

um when we're having this conversation

when we're going to go on the other

side, the camera is going to be on that

opposite shoulder.

Uh so that means that was the over the

shoulder on Amy and this will be the

over the shoulder on the nurse. So the

nurse is going to be smaller. We're

going to give her glasses. How about

that? That's my fabulous bit of artistic

expression. And then Amy is going to be

covering this side. Um I I probably are

going to loosen up here. I probably once

again we're going to do two sizes.

Uh there'll be two sizes static,

although not so static because we got a

little bit of a shaky camera. There's

going to be a medium over the shoulder

and uh a plus a tighter single.

Um, I would, you know, if you can, these

days film is really cheap because it's

not film, it's digital. You can shoot as

much as you want. I would suggest

shooting the whole scene on both sizes.

Um, if you let let's just say you you

stop and you only shoot a few lines on a

tighter size, you never know what you're

going to need in the cutting room. So,

those choices are cheap, easy, fast, uh,

much easier for the actors to do. You

might as well just do two sizes.

Occasionally, sometimes you'll do an

extreme close-up, which you know you're

only going to extreme close-up on

somebody's lips saying rose bud. Okay,

we know perfectly well that we're not

going to use the extreme close-up on the

lips for the entire scene. Then maybe

you just shoot that one tiny little

extreme close-up for just that line or

for maybe the choice of two lines. Um,

but but in general, it's probably a safe

bet, especially as a a beginning

filmmaker, to make sure that you have as

many choices. Uh, you never know what's

going to happen in the cutting room. Now

we have the part of the sequence where

the nurse dismisses her and she is going

to walk into go towards where the

waiting area would be. Um, that's an

opportunity for some movement and an

opportunity to see uh uh the character

get up and to see the other side of the

room. And we'll decide whether uh we,

you know, uh whether we we dolly and

dissolve out of that dolly or whether um

we we go to a point and stay static and

wide, whether we boom up in order to

give height or whether we just stay in a

kind of a flat plane. Um we'll know that

when we know the location.

Unfortunately, we don't have the

location yet. So, some of this is just

arbitrary thoughts in my head. Um, I I

do see that there we the the a nice

place for that would be a profile shot.

Uh, let's say we have the the desk is

here. We have um we have Amy here.

Oh, I have to give her a nose for a

profile with her child. And then we have

the nurse here. Um, the point of view

would probably be from from this point

of view. And now we know that she's

going to go in this direction. This is

where the

So if we follow her, once again, I'm the

actor, so I'm always thinking in terms

of how it's going to look like on the

set. I'm going to follow I mean, she's

going to get up and I'm going to want to

follow her. And uh uh the way to do that

would be to sort of counter move. So if

we're if the let's just say that I would

say that the camera I'm in the scene,

the camera is right around here. As she

moves in this direction, the camera

would counter left and uh move with her,

move away from the nur nurse, move away

from her and watch her with her back to

us walking away to go sit down at the uh

waiting area and maybe just sit in a

chair with her son. Um that would

require

probably that would require probably

three of these panels. So, one, two, and

three. Maybe let's put them all in one

let's put it all on one uh like on one

page. So we have let's say we have uh

I'm giving her a lot of cinematic uh

negative space on this side. But let's

say we have Amy here. We have the desk

here. We have the nurse here. She's in

profile. That's why I'm giving her a

nose. Those are her glasses. Then she's

going to go in this direction. She's

going to this waiting area. The next

shot that we have of her will probably

be in profile because she's stood up and

you know we may be carrying her. She may

have ended up like that and she's going

in this direction. We've lost the nurse

at this point. Maybe we have a piece of

the desk. And now the next shot. So this

is continuing. This is their our dolly.

And the last shot will be of

the waiting area with her back to us. H

not sure how that will look with her

back to us

heading in that area. You know an easier

way I'm going to write down what those

shots are. So I'll say

uh

dolly left.

So, I'll say profile

uh nurse. I'm gonna give her an N. And

Amy Dolly left

uh

as they move to waiting area.

And I might say on uh end on her back on

on her back. I might take her to the

waiting area and have her sit down. and

we'll see that kind of lonely image of a

of a person waiting. Um, so this is kind

of a a flat uh horizontal shot. You you

may decide that you would like to do

something tricky with the end of the

scene. You know, maybe you'd like to

boom up higher or maybe you'd actually

like maybe you'd like to maybe there's a

desk or maybe there's a passer by

somebody that passes. And that wipe will

allow you to have a transition to the

next scene. It's up to you to decide

what your transition is to the next

scene. Um, a good way of doing this Oh,

well, I'll just keep going. So this

dolly continues until um we're on her

back and then she's the the two of them

are sitting in the chair. Another good

way of uh and faster and more economical

way is

is just to look at your set and almost

like a blueprint of your set. Your set

looks like this. You have chairs over

here. Let's say you have a you have a a

desk here. You have the nurse who's

going to be here

and you have the Amy here.

Where what are the different camera

angles that we've used so far? The first

camera angle was here. It was a closeup.

That was number one. The second camera

and it got a little wider so it went in

that direction. The second camera angle

was from well probably might have been

over here so that we captured you know

more of a passerby that came by and so

we get to see both of them. So that's

number two. The third angle that we came

up with was a was a was two was two

setups of a closeup from this side. Oh

actually hang on. It has to be over her

head. So that side. So that's three and

then a single which is a little bit

tighter here. And from this side which

is

number four five was our dolly shot

um uh which went from

which went from a profile let's say from

this angle

and then

it dollied over until the camera was

looking in this direction.

So that was five. If you were a

production designer, you would

understand that that was the set that

you just built. And so, you'll know

where the camera angles are. You'll know

where your practical lights are going to

be. You'll know where you're going to

place your desk. If you're the director

of cinematographer, you'll know which

sections of the set need to be lit. If

you're the first AD, you'll understand

where you can place the extras. If

you're catering, you know where not to

be. If uh you are um let's see who else.

sound. You'll know how wide they're

going to be. So, you can decide about

whether you where you're going to place

your boom and whether you're going to

place your boommen and your equipment

and your electricity and your wires. Uh

if you are costumes, um you're going to

know how many extras you have and what

colors they should be wearing. Um so,

all of these all of this is these are

just silly practical tools to give

people more information. You can give

those information by talking. You can

give those information by lists. You can

give those information by these terrible

scribbly drawings or you can just tell

someone else and they'll tell them. But

um my feeling is is that the more you

engage in communication and telling

people what you're looking for, the more

they'll be able to deliver their

language, whether it's the language of

props, the language of costumes, the

language of cinematography, their

language onto your train. All I'm doing

is sitting at a desk thinking with a pen

and a piece of paper and a lot of

talking. Uh and that pretty much is

directing is having a vision and being

able to articulate that to others so

that they can climb on and collaborate

with your vision.

There's a part of me that is that boring

type A person. You know, I like things

to be organized. I like to make lists. I

like to have everything nailed down so

that when I get there and it's not going

the way that I had hoped, I can move to

plan B knowing that I had plan A. I'm

always aware of scheduling uh because

it's going to impact on my performances.

It's going to impact on my day. It's

going to impact on whether I get the the

footage that I want. Um I shot list

everything right in the middle it says

lunch because just a bunch of shots laid

down without an understanding of where

they're going to head during where

they're going to fall during the day

doesn't allow you to have a sense of

where you're headed. Uh very often

people will waste the early parts of the

day which is the most productive part

and then by the time you get to lunch

you realize you have 50 more shots left.

What are you going to do? So um always

being aware of scheduling.

Don't feel that it's not creative. Um in

some ways you're protecting yourself.

You're protecting your ability to be

creative by making sure that you have

your parameters nailed down.

I love to work quickly. Um I'm very well

suited to it. It's why I like working in

television. Um I I like getting a lot

done. I like being decisive. Uh the best

way to your crew will love to work

quickly because they feel like they're

not being taken advantage of and they

feel like they're getting a lot done.

But you want to make sure that it's not

sloppy, that everything feels

intentional and that it's well prepared.

The best money that you will ever spend

in your whole life is on prep. If you

can add time to prep and if you can prep

more than you ever thought possible, you

will be more prep. You will you will

save money, save time, save energy, and

always have more on screen. Um, if

there's one piece of advice that I have,

it's spend as much time in prep as you

possibly can. It's the cheapest time on

the film. It's when the clocks aren't

running. It's when people aren't on

payroll. It's just you and maybe your

producers and maybe the writer and

you're uh sitting in a room and coming

up with things occasionally bringing on

a first ad. He will help the director be

motivated and be clear. He'll always be

thinking forward to how to reschedule to

make it go faster. Um if you can be if

you can listen to your first AD and you

have a first AD that's conscious and is

and is really a a solid filmmaker as

well as a solid film as a solid

technician, then you'll be able to get

your day.

The first AD is the person who controls

the ambiance on the set and make sure

that the actor has what the actor needs

in order to in order to give a

performance. Some actors

uh need to sit in a corner and with a

funny red nose on and sing opera. Who

knows? Some actors um need to be

distracted. They need to not be

self-conscious. they need to just drink

a coffee and yuck yuck with the crew and

then get back into their seat. Uh but

there is a line uh for example that we

all know which is that who the actors in

front of the camera uh that that their

moment in front of the camera is what we

are all here to support. You know when

you're scheduling um there are all sorts

of different exigencies that come into

the play. Uh sometimes you can only get

this location in the morning or

sometimes the sun only rises at a

certain place. your DP says, "I can only

shoot that at night." Or, um, sometimes

you have an actor who's doing a a a play

on Broadway, and so you can only have

them a certain number of days. You're

always balancing and juggling these

exigencies. Um, for the most part, you

know, you you roll with that. You know,

you may have to shoot your last scene of

your movie. You may have to shoot it on

the very first day, not ever knowing how

the film's going to go. You're going to

shoot your last scene of the movie on

the very first day. But occasionally

there are some places where you have to

really put your foot down and that's

usually about the actors because that's

just not something that you can mess

with. Um sometimes um it may be more

convenient to shoot something on that

particular part of the day, but you know

that an actor's not ready. You know that

an actor doesn't feel comfortable with

their lines. You know that an actor has

it's their first day of shooting and now

you're going to make them do the most

emotional scene in the movie on the

first day of shooting. You have to ease

them in. So the first consideration

should be the actors.

There's a couple of things that you can

do in prep that are a little

unconventional. Um I mean one of the

things that I think is very helpful in

prep if you're somebody that has makes

chatty films like I do is to do a table

read. Um it's inexpensive. People love

doing it and you get to hear your film

from beginning to end. Um I do lots of

table reads before I start shooting. I'm

because I'm an actor and I'm I'm, you

know, it's it's the way I think. I need

to hear it. I need to hear the pacing. I

need to hear the actors inhabit it. And

then I make a lot of uh rewrites based

on those table reads. Um, you know,

another great thing to do in prep is um

to have a friend who you respect who

might be a writer or an editor or

somebody who's familiar with filmm read

your script and have them identify your

biggest weakness. Um now you may not

want to change that weakness but just

being aware of it uh will give you a new

kind of understanding of your film and

will make you conscious of something. Um

for example um if you have a a film that

you know it may be quite sentimental. Uh

if your friend said I love the movie but

you know just be careful but it doesn't

go too sentimental because it's really

teetering on the edge. Um that's

something that you can do something

about. You know, even if your your film

is feels quite sensitive, uh maybe you

start doing things like, you know, at

the end of sequences instead of just

letting a feeling just like stay there

and and and you know, kind of indulging

the feeling if there's something that

happens at the end of the of the

sequence that kind of stops that

emotion. Um just little things to kind

of cut the edge off of the

sentimentality. If you are aware that

you already have that problem, that it's

a weakness of your script, it doesn't

mean that you have to just bulldoze your

script and change it. You can go and

just be aware and conscious of the fact

that you, you know, you're already

teetering on the edge of something and

be able to write that ship.

We tend to we tend to hold on to things

that feel safe. I did a movie once where

the director uh wanted me to have a chip

tooth and long hair. I didn't have a

chip front tooth and I didn't have long

longish hair, but that's what it said in

the book. And he just couldn't get that

out of his mind. At 12 years old, when

you give a full denture piece and a big

old wig, you just can't get the same

performance out of somebody. Um there's

a kind of naturalness that you're going

to lose. and he just couldn't let go of

the thing that this idea that he had in

his hotel room. It made him feel safe.

It made him feel good that he had

something to hold on to that he was sure

of. And at the end of the day, he

probably should have he probably should

have let it go in order to have a more

fully realized and naturalistic

character. So that that's really the sin

that we all do, which is we we want to

make decisions and we hold on to some of

them despite the fact that we start

seeing that they need to evolve and

change with as they hit air, as they hit

the oxygen and as they hit all the

different people that that are part of

the experience of making a movie.

Casting your movie, I would say, is the

most important thing because um there

are a lot of choices that you can change

in the moment. Um there are a lot of

decisions that you can make and remake

over time. Uh but with an actor, you've

chosen a human being that comes with a

whole history of possibility and

impossibilities. And uh hopefully you've

made that choice carefully because in 20

minutes you're not going to be able to

change uh drastically uh somebody's

entire performance. Hopefully uh you

know when you've cast an actor, you've

known that you're on the same train,

that you're speaking the same language,

that hopefully you're telling the same

story and hopefully they are open enough

to tell you what they've been working

on. Um, I think people sometimes believe

that a director uh entirely creates a

performance from an actor. Um, I've

never found that to be true. I found

that a director can inspire an actor to

bring a performance to the table. Uh,

that a director can collaborate with an

actor during their process. But it

really is the actor who through

preparation

um brings everything to the table. And

then it really is the director as a kind

of

dog whisperer uh who's able to shepherd

uh that actor and to shift and maybe

change them slightly in certain

different directions, but you really

only have a few minutes to change a

actor's performance. So, it's hopefully

you've gotten the right actor.

Occasionally, uh, an actor will pop out

to you when you're reading a script. Um,

but for me, that doesn't happen very

often. I think for me, I think about the

story first. I think about, um, the

changes that I might want make to that

story, the development process of the

script, and then little by little,

actors might emerge. Um the casting

process uh is really what starts making

making it all bubble up where you start

seeing actors say the lines and you

start understanding why dialogue works

or doesn't work and then you start

understanding why that actor is correct

or why that actor isn't quite right. Um

that process of having that time of

watching actors inhabit the characters

and come up with things and bring things

to the table that to me is so important

and I would never cut it short. Um these

days we have all this technology with

video and you can see people remotely

and you can scroll through 50 different

performances in a very short period of

time and sometimes that short changes

the process of hearing the words over

and over again spoken. Uh uh watching uh

actors grapple and struggle with

problems in the screenplay. Um, I like

to take as much time as I can uh in the

casting process and I like to be in the

room if I can.

I've been working with the same casting

director for many many years, a good

friend Ay Kaufman and um A very

well-known casting director. We were all

very young together. Um, and she uh the

the experience that we had together that

I think was the most seminal for us was

finding uh the little boy to play Tate

in Little Man Tate. We went through

hundreds of children uh lots of actor

children. I was an actor. I was a child

actor. So I appreciated the craft that

child actors do bring to the process.

But we started understanding after a

hundred kids, we understood that we

probably were going to just need a kid

that we found. and Ay was able to go

into schools. She found a kid that had

never been in a school play before and

um they just brought a classroom of

children and she started talking to

them. She brought him in uh among many

of the kids who she gave screenplays to,

she had him read and uh

uh she taped him and brought that tape

uh for me to see. And there was

something so riveting about him. It's

was indescribable. It wasn't that he was

the greatest actor in the world or that

he read better than others, but there

was something about him that I was

fascinated by. And I think that's what

you're looking for and that's what you

and your casting director are looking

for is to be fascinated by that

character and by that actor, no matter

how small the part, I'm always looking

to be fascinated by them and for them to

bring a full character. So, not just

what's on the page, but a full

character. The big biggest lesson to

take away from casting is that if you're

fascinated, there's a reason. And you

don't always have to know what that

reason is. You can have ideas about what

that reason might be. You can have hints

about what that reason might be. But the

real fascination will reveal itself

through the process. If it's interesting

and it moves you, there's a reason. And

chances are, if it moves you, it will

also move someone else and it will move

the audience. It's the only thing that

you can trust.

Well, I started directing uh when we did

have videotapes. Uh but I wasn't used to

using them and I didn't use them a lot.

I used them for convenience. Maybe you

would tape somebody just so that I could

see what they look like and then I

always uh would bring them in for a

reading. Uh very often I would read with

them as the other actor uh or I would

have a a casting assistant who would

read with them. Um, the most important

part of that that one-on-one session is

uh to really be in the room. For me, is

to be in the room and to give them notes

and to see if they can take notes. Uh,

any of you budding

actors uh who are coming into a room in

a casting session, it's a nerve-wracking

proposition. You're walking in, you

don't know these people, you're sitting

in a chair, you don't know the lines

necessarily of our heart. Although I

would I would ask you to know them

pretty well because it does make quite a

bit of difference. Uh and you're

standing there with your white pages,

you know, what's the most important

thing that a director is looking for

when they're looking to cast somebody.

Um obviously they want to bring what you

they want to see what you bring

naturally to the table for your

character, but they also want to see if

you can change and how you can change.

Uh the big mistake I think that actors

very often make is is they they've made

a decision in terms of their character.

They bring it to the table. The director

gives them a small note and they change

everything so that it's just the note

that the director gave. Very often what

the director is looking for is for you

to add. Like you might add some salt or

some curry or some paprika. They're not

asking you to erase everything you

already came to the table with, but

they're asking you to add things. And

maybe they might ask you to add more

than one thing. Um, that's one of the

things that I look for with actors is

can can they add to their performance

and how many things can I add to them?

Will they be flustered? Will they are

they able to adjust? Um, are they able

to do things delicately? I for me the

most interesting performances are the

ones where there are many layers and

where those layers are quite delicately

drawn. Very often directors

uh have a hard time understanding uh how

vulnerable these actors are. They're

walking in, you know, showing you the

insides of their body in some ways. And

um I tend to really try to be as

compassionate as possible and as

positive as possible.

in the beaver, the role of Norah, who's

played by Jennifer Lawrence. Um, the

original script, uh, she was the most

wonderful creature that had ever graced

the planet. So, she was beautiful, she

was a cheerleader, she was

validictorian, she was brilliant, she

was self-nowledgeable, she had lived

through tragedy and was able to confess

and understand psychologically her

entire motivations and understand what

had happened. Um, that's a big tall

order for an for a for an actress to try

to play. And we brought in hundreds of

actresses, uh, all of them wonderful.

Every one of them was wonderful. And

there was something bugging me. And I

couldn't I just couldn't find an actress

that was right for the role. Uh, over

and over again, tape upon tape. Finally,

uh, we came upon a tape of a young

actress named Jennifer Lawrence, um,

that she had sent in, that her manager

had made, that she with her manager had

made and sent in, and there was

something so fascinating about her and

intriguing about her. Um, Amy Kaufman

said, "I don't know, I just get an

amazing feeling." She brought her back

in uh to New York to do a session um a

video session, and then I went to go see

the Deborah Granic movie, Winter's Bone.

Uh, I was allowed to come in the cutting

room and see a couple of scenes that

were being put together and it was just

such a treat. Um, an amazing movie and

this actress that was absolutely still

and fascinating and strong but filled

with what at least this is what I

projected was filled with this tragedy.

uh she was she had a body that had lived

through tragedy and you could see that

in her face that she had overcome

tragedy and yet was unconscious about

you know how she had done it. Um, that

kind of strength of character mixed with

an unconsciousness about her psychology

was something that really fascin

fascinated me about Jennifer Lawrence.

And I realized seeing her in that movie,

the little bits and pieces that I saw

and seeing her performance that the

problem was in the script that no Nora

could ever be beautiful, a cheerleader,

intelligent, validictorian,

self-nowledgeable, having had tragedy,

having overcome it and understood how to

get through it, a full confession that

these were too many things for this

character to have all at once and that I

needed to take some of those away. And

what I took away was the consciousness.

I wanted Nora to be somebody who had

just acted. She was this person who was

very strong intellectually, wonderful

student, had had everything and yet

there's a whole part of her life that is

unknown to her. And that was really the

strength that Jennifer Lawrence brought

to that reading. It was something that

she showed me that I was fascinated by.

And it made me go back to the script and

work with Kyle Kllin to change the

script in order to accommodate that

actress and to accommodate the strengths

and the rare kind of quality and

treasure that Jennifer Lawrence brought

to the character. When I first saw

Jennifer Lawrence approach the scene, I

think the thing that struck me was that

instead of the character

going off on a tangent of confession,

she was begrudgingly confessing. It was

um sort of throwaway, kind of beside the

point. But what I could feel was that

the pain of what it brought up in her,

that that pain still existed and that

she was trying to mask it. she was

trying to keep it at bay and she wasn't

going to indulge in it, but that it was

something that still lived inside of

her. Um, if that is the special skill of

Jennifer Lawrence, I don't know what

else is. Um, this internal internalized

pain that lives on her face and yet

she's strong enough and fierce enough to

be able to overcome it.

Um, I think the the the line that got me

the most was when she says

she she says something like, "I, you

know, I was trying to be all of these

things and it was stupid." Um, that

there's this

lack of self-love, that there's this

disgust with herself, that she used to

be somebody who was stupid and dumb and

who she's she's disappointed by. I'm I'm

always struck by that. It's something

that really moves me when I see

characters on screen admit defeat, admit

disappointment in themselves. Um, and I

think that that was the essence of of

what Jennifer Lawrence got to just in

those few lines. Um, was that she was

unconscious of her motivations, but she

knew that she was disappointed by who

she was and by how she had lived the

experience. Um there's nothing worse on

screen than people saying this is how I

feel. You want to you want to see you

want to show uh not hear somebody talk

about it. So show don't tell. Um and in

this case uh the revisions that we made

to the script were mostly about cutting

out confessions. These kind of conscious

confessions of her saying this is how I

felt then and then this happened to me

and then that happened to me and then I

felt this and now I understand. Nora

doesn't understand who she is

psychologically. She understands herself

intellectually, but she doesn't

understand herself psychologically. And

that's why she needs Porter to write her

validictory speech about who she is

because she's not willing to face it.

Sometimes it's a tough call because

you'll have wonderful actors. um each

one of them brings something different

to the table and uh the decision-m is

agonizing. It's it's really hard for me.

Um and many actors out there who may

have auditioned for me have may have

received a note where I talk about how

much their performance moved me and how

arbitrary these decisions are about why

we choose one actor over another. And

having been an actor, I have a lot of

compassion about that. Every once in a

while, you do have this tough call and

um you're faced with a decision. you've

talked it through with your producers,

you've talked it through with other

people that you respect. Um, it usually

comes down to a discussion that I have

with the casting director. I really

respect the casting director and that

process. And, um,

the dialogue that we have, um, is

usually me

talking through all of my concerns.

Very often people will make decisions

through fear. Um, I think that's

natural. I think that's a it's a human

condition that we try to avoid things

that scare us. We we might try to steer

away from things that are bold. We might

try to not do something that exposes us

too much personally. And we have to look

at that objectively. I think you have to

stand outside of yourself objectively

and make sure that you're not choosing

one actor over the other because you're

afraid of something. You know, I'm

afraid

this actor is too pretty. he's a

fantastic actor, but maybe he's too

pretty or um I am afraid that um he this

this woman is um scary that she's she's

too strong or too bold and maybe that

will overwhelm that maybe that will

overwhelm the the the dynamic between

the two characters. I think you have to

you have to look at where your personal

issues are coming into play. Uh instinct

is wonderful, but it's also important to

be able to intellectually

talk through your instincts. Um once

again that's that balance between

control and freedom between the

choreographer and the dancer between the

director and the actor in you is you

have to be able to understand um what

part of you is is controlling the

experience and controlling where the

actor is going and which part of you is

responding to that freedom and that

spontaneity that the actor's bringing to

the table.

I've had many disagreements with

producers over casting choices. Um,

usually you're pretty much on the same

page because you you you're supposed to

be making the same movie. So hopefully

you're communicative about the train and

where the train's going and where the

train's going to leave the station at

what time and where it's going to end.

Uh, but occasionally there are some

disagreements about how to get there.

Um, casting sometimes you'll have big

disagreements. Uh very often with the

studio it's one of the biggest decu

decisions that a studio or a finance

year will make is who is the actor going

to be in the movie. Are they somebody

that we can get financing for? Is it

somebody that people know? Is it

somebody that we find compelling? Is it

somebody that has a lot of hits on

YouTube these days? There are those

considerations and um you may be getting

a lot of pressure to hire somebody uh to

cast somebody who you may not feel is

right for the role.

uh hiring the lead actor and the the and

the supporting characters is probably

the most important decision that you

make on a film. And if you're somebody

that cares about acting and if you're an

actor director and you it is something

that you have a real feeling for, uh I

would say fight keep fighting for the

one that you believe in.

I think, you know, the biggest problem

that that directors uh have with actors

is that they just don't understand what

acting is. And so they're intimidated by

it. And um they try all these other ways

to either prove that they are have power

over you or that they know what they're

doing when the truth is is they're just

kind of intimidated by the process of

what acting is. There's really three

parts to acting. There's um there's

three layers. There's the part that the

character is showing you, the part that

they're communicating. There is the part

they're hiding, and there's the part

that's completely unconscious that they

don't really realize is a part of their

story. Um we're always working juggling

those three different layers of meaning.

Um in some characters like Nell, you

know, there those those layers are less

severe. um she's not hiding as much. She

doesn't know that she's supposed to

hide. Uh the character like Clarice

Starling in Silence of the Lambs, uh you

have somebody who's very aware that her

words have effect and she is presenting

an image for Dr. Lectar um to to

basically to manipulate him to get him

to do what the FBI wants her to do. At

the same time, she's begrudgingly

revealing sides of herself. And at the

same time, she's naive enough and young

enough in some ways to not really 100%

understand why she is on this mission.

Um, that there is a whole part of her

story that's not understood even to her.

Uh, I don't like preciousness. I don't

like to be approached in a precious way.

So, I prefer somebody to be incredibly

blunt and honest and tell me exactly

what they mean. If they'd like me to be

faster, I like to hear faster. If they'd

like me to be slower, I like to hear

slower. I tend to feel manipulated if

somebody I can see somebody or notice

that somebody's either trying to change

the way they would speak in order to get

a result from me. Uh actors tend to not

like to be forced into result. They like

to find the way their themselves. Um I

personally like directors to be

prepared. Um, I love them to be open to

chance and open to spontaneity, but I

want them to have a plan A. Uh, there

are too many things that can go wrong

and there's too many people's times that

can be wasted. An actor's energy is

important. The crew's energy is

important. And so, if somehow you're

doing 25 takes for no reason except that

the director is unprepared, um, then

there's a you lose respect for the

director. I don't like uh a direction

that's resultoriented. Uh where the

director tells you where he wants to get

emotionally. You know, I'd like you to

cry at the end or I'd like you to laugh

on this line or I'd like the audience to

feel such and such. I want the audience

to be sad or the audience to be happy.

If you start making decisions, um if an

actor starts making a decision about

result, uh they'll immediately be

blocked and never be able to get there.

So um that's an important one. Um mostly

I like a director to include me in the

process. I've been a actor for a really

long time. I love uh I love the

technique that goes into film making and

I understand the language of film

making. So if a director is creating a

shot creating a shot list where you have

a number of different shots together, I

like to know why. I like to know what

the end result is so that I can help

serve them. I don't really want a

director of saying things like um let's

feel this together or um um you know

hold my hand and you know let's have

this experience of what you're going

through you know remember that time when

you did this that to me feels like

manipulation or it feels like an

invasion it it feels like an invasion of

space I would rather have a more

practical conversation with an with a

director and to allow myself to have the

experience of the character

and we're going to talk about Nell uh a

strange movie uh a difficult

performance.

I was uh we created this character. It

was based on a play called Idlossia. But

we created a character who was thought

of as a wild child, somebody that had

been raised in the woods that had only

been in contact with one person her

whole life. She never went outside of

this room or so they thought. Um, no

human contact whatsoever. And the

question in the film is, you know, who

is this almost primitive ideal person

who is raised without interference uh

from the real world. But little do those

people who are asking that question know

that she is the least lonely person and

the least alone person that they know.

That's something that they'll have to

discover over time through her language,

through her gestures. By understanding

her language, by understanding her

gestures, they'll understand her past

and her history. Okay, so here's the

problem. There really are no wild child.

There's no wild child. There's no

reference. There's no books that I can

read or histories that I can uh

videotapes that I can look at. Every

path that I went down seemed to be the

wrong path. Um, so I had to kind of

create nail from scratch. And the only

way to do that was to look into the text

that the text had all of the clues for

her voice. She's somebody that was

raised by a mother who was speech

impaired. She had had a stroke and uh

she had a stroke uh from a very violent

thing that had happened to her. So Nell

learned her speech from somebody that

was a stroke victim. So that influenced

how we created the the language. The

language was also formed which I knew

from the script was also formed by the

relationship with her twin sister. her

twin sister, somebody who had died

earlier. Uh they had developed a speech

together. It's called idoglossia. It's a

phenomenon that happens to twins where

they develop a language that has nothing

to do with our English language and they

develop this language and pull pieces of

words together that they that only they

know, a secret language. Uh so all of

these clues to the character starts

building the clues to how you build the

character yourself.

So for uh for Nell's speech, if I say

something like um uh she might say u

I know this seems silly. When my sons

see this, they'll be laughing. What

you'll notice is that one side of my

face doesn't work as well. She's learned

her speech from somebody that has a

stroke. Um also the musicality. There's

a lot of that southern accent. people

that have had strokes tend to emphasize

the musicality because that part of

their brain is working well. Um uh the

language that she uses that her mother

used was biblical was very biblical

because she couldn't read anymore and

that was the only verse that she knew.

Um so when we start pulling the language

apart, if we start learning the language

through the course of the movie, what we

learn is that go

is actually after go guardian angel

comes. Um but it's only through knowing

now that you get privy to uh what she's

actually saying. You you have to know

her in order to learn her. The same

thing with the body movements and the

physicality. big quandry. Uh, in the

script it says Nell does crazy gesture.

Nell goes off on her own and rocks. And

I said to myself, what does that mean?

What am I gonna do? Um, I went to a

movement class. That didn't work. I

talked to people about um uh you know

would she would she what what would be

this phenomenon? Nobody had any answers

for me. So uh I worked with somebody who

uh who was a dancer and they said the

most important thing is is no dance

moves. So I went home I I uh had spoken

to a movement coach and we came up with

an idea of of a gesture

that um that was two people had

participated in at one point only one

person's not there anymore. So, let's

just say I'll move over here. So, let's

just say uh Nell and her sister are

doing a are are almost like a seessaw.

One person goes out, another person

comes back. If you deconstruct that and

move that around, that becomes a very

elaborate, strange looking gesture of

moving out and moving back, moving out,

moving back. The strange thing was is

that every time I did it, I just found

it really moving. It was something about

the breathing and about breathing out

and then breathing back again that there

was this gesture was a piece of memory.

It was bringing back the memory and

bringing that other person back into the

room. So we wo that into the film. Uh

there's a scene where she goes to the

mirror and she's trying to explain

trying to invoke her sister and um she

goes to the mirror and she moves with

her arms in one direction the other

pulls her back the way a child might do

and with that comes language and the

language that she says is May and Tay.

May is the name of her sister and Tay is

is sort of a biblical thou May and Tay.

And uh when Liam's character uh enters

into the room and hears this, he thinks

that she's saying his name. And the

great doctor has this idea that somehow

this child or this woman is so

interested in him that she's accepting

him and she's saying his name. But in

fact, what she's doing is shutting him

out and escaping into this memory that

is safe of May.

Hey,

my kids will be laughing, but there's

something genuinely moving about the

breath and bringing somebody in,

invoking a character, invoking a ghost

so that you don't have to be alone and

you can escape this guy. Um the

beautiful thing about that movie for me

was that um

uh it was that the it's all about

somebody who's completely 100%

misunderstood

and um through coming to understand her,

you get to understand her real history

and um the things that make her up is

this longing to be connected and all of

these people thought that she was

longing to be left alone. I find the act

of of acting can sometimes be very

self-conscious. Look at me. I'm sitting

on the floor saying crazy words with

crazy gestures. Um, the only way for me

to not feel self-conscious is to

normalize it. Is to drink coffee and

hang out and um show everybody that I'm

just a regular person. And by having

that relationship with the crew, I think

where they know that I'm just one of

them. um were able to become a family

and feel supported so that I can make a

fool of myself in front of the camera

and know that um nobody's going to make

fun of me. I have to wait for my kids to

make fun of me when I get home.

Uh the director of Nell is Michael

Aptad, the wonderful Michael Aptad. The

one thing that he uh that he understands

more than anybody else is documentary.

did the very famous Seven Up

documentaries. Um, Michael knows how to

stay away when you have to stay away and

let the actor do what they need to do,

but he also knows how to participate in

support. And that's something that I

really learned from him. Um, he let me

really prep the character. Um, we had

discussions, but he's somebody who who,

once again, he doesn't invade thea

space. He's a natural documentarian. So,

he really led me to discover the

character on my own. The

characterization of Nell um is a really

good example of um having to have a

clear structure in order to support

total freedom. The script was written in

such a way so that there were clear

reasons and realities to her speech, to

her language, to her musicality, to the

way that she moved. Um everything had a

reason but you you know we had to

provide we had to make that make sense

of that and as an actor uh so much of my

work really was in preparation and in

this case I found this thing that when I

moved outwards and breathe and then

tried to pull somebody back as much as I

possibly could somebody who was the

closest person to me that I thought

would never leave me but then did leave.

So, this idea of longing,

longing, and trying to invoke this

ghost, and she wasn't coming, but I'm

going to try and bring her back again

with the with the speech and with the

gestures. Every time I did that, I was

centered in the character, and I knew

what I was doing, and I knew where I

was, and I was moved. Um,

you can find that uh in any character. I

think you just have to you have to find

the resonance. You have to find the

personal resonance, the thing that

touches you, that big idea, that big

emotional idea that touches you. And

that's what gets you on set every day.

That's what allows you to, you know,

cry in the graveyard with the where your

grandma is supposed to be when in fact

it's a crew of 125 people around you. If

you can focus on the thing that moves

you, um, that has personal resonance,

you'll always find your way.

I think the best way for a filmmaker to

create a supportive environment is um to

have the actors feel like they're in it

with them. That um if the actor is going

to jump off a cliff, the director's

going to jump off a cliff, too. If the

actor is going to have to stand naked in

a shower, you know, the director's going

to take his shirt off, too. just that um

as an analogy I think um I think the

actor needs to feel like they're not

alone and they need to feel like there's

a guiding force who loves them. Um you

know I think that's uh why the

relationship with the uh director always

feels like a parent child relationship.

Um and I know that throughout the years

the the kind of respect that I have for

directors uh for the directors that I've

worked with has always felt a little bit

like they were parent figures. In my

case, most of those guys were men. I've

only made one movie with a woman

director, sadly. I know that will change

soon, but um I didn't have a dad. So, my

relationships with directors was a lot

about wanting them to respect me,

wanting them to care about me, wanting

them wanting to feel supported by them.

And this was the one place that I got to

have that. Um, uh, it's it's why I feel

like, um, I am in service of the

director's vision the way a child is in

service of a parent's vision.

I guess,

you know, I I I I say often that I

wasn't born to be an actor. Um, I just

it was a family business really. It was

something that I fell into at 3 years

old. And I think that had I been given a

choice, maybe I would have been a lawyer

or a doctor or a professor. Um, but I

wasn't. I was an actor. And um, that

meant I got my 10,000 hours by the time

that I was 12 years old. And I was able

to have that psychological experience of

of openness and creativity, something

that I maybe wouldn't have come to me

naturally.

That was a gift. Um

uh but the the problem is is that I

don't have a lot of faith. I didn't have

a lot of faith in anything but my mind.

And uh with Nell, what I understood is

that I was more than just my head. That

um I was a a more full uh a more

emotional being. Um

uh for me that that doesn't come

naturally. It's not my personality. Um

I'm a thinker. And to be able to be

given the gift uh to play somebody who's

who's who's a feeler uh was, you know,

was life-changing. And in this case,

doing nail uh for me was facing probably

my greatest fear that um my fear was

that maybe I really wasn't an actor.

Maybe I was just um

had been a child actor because uh they

had been chosen for me. Um, it's a good

lesson, I think, for all of you to look

at the things that you're scared of, uh,

face them head on, possibly fail. Um,

but that experience is really worth it.

I think it will help you to evolve as an

artist um and help you move to the next

step as an

very often the biggest worry that

students and new filmmakers have is how

do I direct actors and what happens if

an actor won't do what I'm asking them

to do. Um it is a fear that keeps people

up at night. Um, and it does happen. And

occasionally you'll have a personality

of an actor who doesn't really want to

do what you were hoping that they would

do. And you sometimes have to be

flexible enough to be able to change

your ideas that you came up with. As I

said, you can't make a film in your

hotel room all by yourself. Uh, it

requires

for you to collaborate. And that also

means that an actor's an actor's process

has to come in has to come into your

process. I very often talk about this

analogy that good directing is good

parenting. A good parent is somebody who

loves you no matter how much pen you

have on your face. Um who is there to be

supportive and to say yes, yes, yes.

who's a cheerleader of positivity and

who allows you to jump off a building

and to do something ridiculous and be

foolish and you know that they'll still

be there. They may even agree that it

was foolish but they can't wait to do it

again. So somebody who's a part of that

process, Martin Scorsesei, my

experience, that was my experience with

Martin Scorsesi.

But an actor also wants a good parent

who says to them, "The train is leaving

the station at 8:32 and it's arriving at

the other end at 11:45 so that they have

constraints that they have a structure

that they can depend on and that they

can feel safe inside. They don't want to

feel like they're wallowing somewhere

and and and what happens if they drown?

There will be nobody there to save

them." Uh so a good parent is both

things both controlling and freeing. Um

I like to bring that to the process with

with actors that may feel scared

in they may be nervous. They may have

butterflies and the first thing they do

is they put their heels down and they

say I cannot move and I will not move. I

try to make them feel comfortable that

I'm going to give them the freedom but

that they're also going to have my

structure.

I worked with a lot of children and

unlike a lot of people, I love working

with children and animals because

they're pure and they're honest. Um,

when a child does not want to throw that

bowl of spaghetti anymore, they will not

throw that bowl of spaghetti one more

time. When that cat does not want to

cough up another furball, there will not

be another furball. and knowing that

they operate out of total honesty and

that they can't be bribed by fame or

money or more food that they they will

only do something if they feel like it's

real and that it comes organically to

them I think is a real help. Uh it means

that you don't force them into

situations that are wrong. I I remember

once trying to force an a child actor to

put his hands in his pockets and to say

the lines with his hands in his pockets

because I had an idea in my head that

that would be that would feel like

something that I was looking for. And

every time he put his hands in his

pockets, he became completely wooden. It

just wasn't organic to who he was. And I

understood that I had to let him let him

have his body work the way it worked. As

an actor, very often I have to I have to

intervene with the other actors. Um, and

when I'm acting and directing, for

example, with Fred Tate, the boy who

played Fred Tate in Little Man Tate, I

had to coax a performance out of him

occasionally by acting with him. Um, and

sometimes that meant loosening him up by

playing with him. Um, I I I will ask

actors when I first come to work with

them, I'll say, "I'm going to play your

mom and I'm probably going to have to

touch you a lot. So, here, give me your

finger." And we do a little bit of that.

Do a little bit of touching. Sometimes

we'll start doing a little dancing. I'll

say, "Do you know how to do this dance

and I'll do a little couple partner

dancing with them just so that they get

used to me being physically bonded to

them and being physically close to them.

So sometimes I will work with them that

way to just allow them to trust me. Um,

but I don't lie to them and tell them

that I'm doing something else. I tell

them that I'm trying to, you know, that

we're trying to create a situation that

we feel good together.

The director can't really intervene

between action and cut. That really is

the actor's responsibility. So, the best

thing that a director can do is to

communicate in prep, communicate before

the scene starts, and then make notes

afterwards. If you've communicated

yourself well and you're all on the same

page, then it's a lovely evolution. You

do a take, that's really nice. Now,

we're going to add another layer to

that. That's really nice. We'll add

another layer to that or think about

this other question. Um, the one thing

you don't want a director to do is to

just invade the space of the actor and

barrage them with a hundred million

things to think about. Um, try and be

specific about what it is that that the

actor needs. Um, and try to have there

not be too much time between the takes

unless for some reason you feel like the

actor could use a little bit of time

away from the character. Uh maybe the

actor's gotten too emotional, for

example, and you might want to bring

them back. Maybe you just let a little

time go by, throw some jokes around,

just try to lighten it up. Um the most

important thing is to tell the truth. Um

there's nothing worse for an actor than

being lied to by a director. um uh they

they obviously don't want to hear the

blunt facts of I didn't like that take

or something terribly negative. But

what's important is that you have trust

and that the actor knows that the

director is on their side and that the

director is there just to help them get

over the finish line to help them get

through this process. Uh not there to uh

participate uh having fun, you know,

making the actor do little tricks like

the way you would a puppet. People would

say that sometimes first-time directors

talk too much. Uh they are very excited

to be on set and they want to provide a

lot of information for the actors and um

sometimes the actors just need

specificity. Um I like to really I

really like to keep it short with the

actors. Um and if the the actor is

coming up with something that I really

love, I'm going to say that's wonderful.

I really wouldn't change a thing. Maybe

you could just try this little thing. Uh

or occasionally a way to approach it is

to say let's try something different. we

have that now let's try something

different. Um always with a positive

spin I think uh just like working with

animals uh you just get a lot more

through positivity than you do any kind

of like negative struggle.

I like to do as much research on a lead

actor as I possibly can before I start

shooting. Um, I will call the other

directors and ask them how they worked

with them and I'll ask them very

bluntly, you know, what is their process

on the set and um, really ask them how

best to talk to them. You know, is it

better to barrage them with notes uh,

after the take or do I need to do just

one note at a time or does he like to do

his takes first or um, is he on time?

Does he remember his lines? I mean, all

of this you've already hired the actor.

It's not like you're going to get rid of

the actor, but it's very important to

have as much information as you possibly

can so that you can get the best

performance out of them and so that you

can get the best team work as you

possibly can out of that actor.

Depending on the experience of the actor

and their past, their history, are they

a theater actor? Are they a television

actor? Are they comfortable in front of

the camera? Uh have they done this a

lot? Do they do they know how to talk in

technical terms? Um you have to read

each actor and figure out how much

information, you know, you might give

them. It might be an overload to give an

actor who's really a theater trained

actor who doesn't really want to know

about the film making to give them all

of the the tricks of film making, you

know, when you're going to be pushing in

or what you need them to do or what you

need to accomplish. For an actor like

that that isn't very comfortable with

the constraints of film making,

sometimes you might need to loosen

things up just so that they don't have

to hit a mark quite so heavily or that

they can uh move on on different lines

as opposed to having a a a specific

moment where they move. Um, all of this

is just about reading people. It's

really just about social dynamics.

Occasionally, you're working with actors

that work differently. Uh, let's say,

uh, in Home for the Holidays, I had a

Braftoft, you know, uh, and I had Robert

Downey Jr., two actors that work in

entirely opposite directions. Robert

Downey Jr., as you can imagine, is free.

Um, he doesn't like to say the same

thing twice. Um he is really interested

in um strange verbal inflections. Uh he

um he gets bored very easily. And

Bankraftoft uh consmate pro has been in

the business forever. She likes to have

everything locked down. Every movement,

every time she lifts her spoon, every

time she turns her head, it's going to

match the last time. And she makes those

decisions ahead of time. So sometimes

just to mess with the fabulous Miss Anne

Bankraftoft, um she would ask me a

question like, you know, when should I

put the cup down? And I'd say I don't

know. I did a lot of saying I don't know

just to try to get her to to not be so

not feel so confined and um and

sometimes even to frustrate her so that

she felt like she was the only person in

that room, just as Adele does in the

movie, the only person in that room that

was keeping everything together. uh with

Robert um

uh you know amazing talents of Robert

Downey Jr. um when you have somebody

that has those abilities uh those improv

abilities that kind of mind uh you hope

that you can find a way to use them

properly.

There's um a wonderful scene in Home for

the Holidays where uh he is driving with

his sister and his friend that he came

to introduce to his sister and he they

dis he he's trying to get his friend to

tell this story about the time he broke

his nose and the friend doesn't really

Dylan McDermott doesn't really want to

have this doesn't want to tell this

story. So instead, Robert Downey Jr.

launches into it for him and it becomes

the most graphic, disgusting story about

the breaking of a nose that involves

blood and puke and snot and you know

anything else that you can think of. And

um the whole thing is pretty much

improvised by Robert Downey Jr. and

every single take is different. Knowing

that I made sure that I had locked off

cameras, I made sure that I had

everything that I needed so that I could

would be able to cut these things

together and let him go. The only

constraint that I gave him was that once

he hit the break, and there was a

specific line he had to hit the break on

after that,

something having to do with her uterus

should come out of his mouth. Um, that

was it. Those were the constraints that

we gave Robert Downey Jr. on that scene.

And um, and of course he lived that

beautifully. I think that had had that

been Anne Bankro scene, I might have

used a different method.

I mean, the best way to make an actor

feel supported in the process of going

through take after take after take is to

be positive and for them to feel like

you are in the scene with them. Um, you

know, nobody wants to be abused and

nobody wants to do a bunch of takes for

no reason. You definitely need to tell

people what you're looking for and um

and and present that hopefully with a

kind of enthusiasm. Sometimes you need

to take a break, let somebody have a

smoke and a cup of coffee, and then come

back to it later. Um, when you finally

exhausted everything that they have.

There's another scene in Money Monster

that um was another Jack Oonnell torture

scene. I love Jack Oonnell. Thank thank

god for Jack Oonnell. Um he has a scene

where he has to kind of just lose it

where um he is just so frustrated with

everybody talking about this glitch.

this glitch that he doesn't understand

and he finally explodes and says, you

know, the glitch, the glitch, you know,

what the hell is that? You know, stop

talking about the glitch. Shut up about

the glitch. Um, we knew that we needed

this shot

because it would replay later on in the

movie many times. It would play in um on

the TV screens. Different people would

witness it. And so, the glitch had to be

this physical thing that he did with his

hands that he threw up his hands. We

wanted that because we thought that

maybe uh people would start uh creating

a meme that had to do with the glitch.

So I asked him to to do something that

was nearly impossible, which is,

you know, to hit a bunch of different

notes and then also do a body movement

that wasn't necessarily natural to him.

That's always a hard note to give. Uh

but Jack Oonnell managed to do it. He

managed to do it many, many, many times.

And it took many, many, many takes of

screaming and saying the glitch over and

over and over again until we finally got

one that hit all the technical points

that we were looking for, the emotional

beats that we were looking for, um, the

highs and lows that we were looking for,

and he was able to hit all of the marks.

Um, this is the crazy job that actors do

on movie sets.

A glitch. A [ __ ] glitch. It was a

glitch.

What the [ __ ] is a glitch?

I told you, Le, I'm not stupid.

Glitch. A glitch. It was a [ __ ]

glitch. A glitch. What the hell does

that even mean?

I don't know. Glitch. Jesus Christ. A

glitch. A computer glitch. A glitch.

What the hell does that even mean?

I'm not stupid. I told you. Jesus

Christ.

The glitch. The glitch. The What the

hell does that even mean? I don't know.

I'm not stupid, Lee.

Oh, Jesus Christ. The glitch. The

glitch. The glitch. The Shut up.

Jesus Christ. Glitch. The glitch. The

glitch. The [ __ ] The glitch. The

glitch. Shut up about the glitch. What

does that even mean?

I'm not stupidly. I told you the glitch.

The glitch. The glitch. Shut up about

the glitch. What does that even mean?

Huh? I'm not stupidly

Jesus Christ. The glitch. The glitch.

The glitch. The glitch. The glitch. The

glitch. Shut up about the glitch. What

the hell does that even mean?

I'm not stupid.

Jesus Christ. The glitch. The glitch.

The glitch. The glitch. The glitch. The

glitch. Shut up about the glitch. Huh?

What the hell does that even mean?

Uh, everyone just gets Yeah. Yep. Uh,

you see, this is what I'm talking about.

Oh, Jesus Christ. The glitch. The

glitch. The glitch. The glitch. The

glitch. The [ __ ] glitch.

Shut up about the [ __ ] glitch.

All right.

You see, that's your problem. You just

sit there behind your little [ __ ]

desk. Oh, Jesus Christ. The glitch. The

glitch. It's the glitch. The glitch. The

glitch. Shut up about the glitch. What

the hell does that even mean?

That was a case where we didn't really

know what we were going to need until

much later on in the process. So, we had

to get a lot of different varieties. Um,

uh, we knew that we were going to just

run through a thousand takes and

hopefully the actor wouldn't be too mad

at us. You just sit there behind their

little [ __ ] desk like their little

[ __ ] puppet, buying into their

[ __ ] instead of trying to figure out

what really happened.

You know what happened? It was a

computer glitch.

A glitch. A glitch. It was a [ __ ]

glitch. A glitch. Shut up about the

glitch. All right. What the hell does

that even mean?

You see, you don't even know how much

stupidly I told you.

It's never too late to collaborate on a

movie. Um, there is at no point is

everything locked in place. Even though

you have a plan, sometimes something

happens, especially during the course of

shooting, and suddenly it occurs to you

or to someone else, whether it be your

actors or other collaborators, that

something needs to change. Um, a good

example for me is in Home for the

Holidays. There is uh the seinal

Thanksgiving scene. The turkey goes

flying. Everybody's angry with each

other. And at the end of that scene was

a very long speech. Steve Gutenberg's

character says to Holly Hunter, "Well,

Claudia,

tell us about your glamorous life." And

she is taken aback. Her glamorous life,

all these terrible things have happened

to her today. And in the original

script, she launches into this

confession and says all the things that

happened to her that day. Her daughter

is losing her virginity in that moment.

Uh she lost her job. She made out with

her boss for no reason at all. She

doesn't know why it happened. She's

entirely inshamed and embarrassed. Um

and both Holly came to me and said, "I'm

just having a really hard time with this

confession. I don't understand why after

all of this, she just stands there and

tells everybody this story." And we

started talking about it. And I was

listening to her and I I I understood

her confusion and I thought, well, let's

figure out a new way. We brought over

Robert Downey Jr. and we realized that a

good idea would be to give her brother

that whole speech. And uh what ended up

what ended up on screen when we worked

with the writer, we shut down the shoot

for that day and said, "You know what?

We're going to rewrite the scene really

quickly. We're going to come back

tomorrow and I'm going to shoot it

differently." And we overnight

completely changed the scene. to this

big long confessional instead of it

being Holly Hunter's confessional was

this moment where she's paralyzed in

front of this question. question is,

"Tell us about your glamorous life." And

she just looks stunned and says, "My

glamorous my glamorous life." And at

that, her brother picks up and says,

"Your glamorous life." And she says,

"Can you help me?" And at that, he

launches into the confessional of every

bit of failure that she has had in that

day. And it's a complete confession on

his part for her of what an loser and

idiot she is. And the two of them laugh

about that. And there was something I

think in the flexibility of that moment

of allowing the actors to bring a piece

of confusion to the table and say this

doesn't make sense to me. An actor says

something doesn't make sense to them.

You must listen. This is why you hire

them. This is why they get paid the big

bucks is that they have these honed

instincts about their characters and

they know when something isn't right.

Well, there's a process of working with

actors that's really just about respect.

Um, if an actor has an emotional scene,

we try to keep the stage quiet. Uh, we

try to not uh yell things behind the

camera. In fact, there's never any

yelling on my sets. Uh, that's something

I sort of don't tolerate. I find it

doesn't get any good work out of anyone.

And, uh, if we have, usually that might

be the AD department where there's a

yeller. Uh, chances are they'll be

looking for a new job very soon. Uh,

yelling doesn't do any good to anybody.

Um, but also little things, you know.

Um, people don't really understand what

an actor goes through. So, I don't ever

make an actor wait. I try not to ever

make an actor wait. And if I do, I make

sure that I go to their trailer and I

apologize that there was something that

came up that we couldn't help it. And

I'm really sorry that I made you wait

for a long period of time where you were

already in character and you were ready

to go and you were in your pett coat in

full makeup and uh you were on stage and

nothing happened. Um, or we called you

at the wrong time. I mean, all of it is

really just letting them know that we

are here to let them have their moment,

that they are essential and absolutely

important and that we respect them. And

that extends to everything. It extends

to how we give the actor their call

sheet or how we ask if the actor perhaps

if it's a lead actor, would you like to

have your lunch in your room or would

you prefer to have it uh you know with

everybody? Um sometimes small details

can really perfect affect their

performance. Uh, a friend of mine told

me that he was working with an actor who

was, you know, good. He was a really

tall guy. He was like 6' 3 or 6'4 and

and he came to the producer and said,

you know, I'd like to have a bigger car.

And the producer basically denied it and

said, "Absolutely not." But he was

really unhappy. He's 6'4 and he has big

long legs and he really needed a car to

be comfortable in the morning when he

came to work. And everything changed

once he got he just got that's all he

needed. He just needed some leg room.

And sometimes people just need food. If

you're gonna have um dailies and you're

expecting people to come, you should

feed them. It's just your basic people

skills of how to treat your crew and

your actors with enough respect to know

that your job is incredibly hard, your

hours are incredibly long. What we're

asking you to do is either

excruciatingly boring and tedious, or

the opposite, phenomenally challenging.

It's never in between. So you have to

respect that these people, you know,

they may have little tiny things that

might affect their performance. And if

it just requires you giving an inch, you

should give the inch.

There are a lot of things that waste

time on movies. For example, you have

five setups. You have one incredibly

wide shot and then the other ones there

are little pieces that you're going in

for. You're wide shot. You can barely

see the people's mouths move. So, please

don't do 25 takes of the entire scene

and print them all and give the actor

notes based on this wide shot. You're

probably only going to need one take or

maybe two takes. Go in and get the other

stuff afterwards. And don't waste all of

your time getting the wide shot perfect.

You know, allow allow yourself to go in

for the other shots. With movement, very

often when you start a move and you know

that you're going to keep this move, you

want the beginning of the move and you

want the end of the move. And that means

you're going to be stuck on this shot

for the whole thing. Uh if you make that

decision that you're going to keep that

shot, then you don't need those lines

for any of the other pieces of coverage.

So you don't need to get everything

perfect if you know that you have the

money shots or the shots that are really

really in your head are working. So

that's really where a lot of time gets

spent is I think people want everything

perfect and they don't have an

understanding of their cutting pattern

or their potential cutting pattern and

they've heard that old adage of get

coverage, get everything, get every

choice you could possibly have.

Large films can afford to not make

choices. A little movie got to make

choices and keep moving on.

If you are decisive and you know what

you are trying to say, less is often

more. Um, if you know that you can so

you can be flexible. Let's just say the

sun is setting. You didn't get

everything that you were hoping for. You

have five more shots that you've

prepared and it's a scene uh where um

the the little boy and the little

manatee, the little boy and the mother

are together and u nobody's come to his

birthday party and he sees that there's

nobody there. She goes to comfort him,

but he doesn't want to be comforted and

he walks out of the room. Uh, and on

that particular day, I had five shots

prepared in order to tell that story.

And we just didn't have the time. So,

what we realized is is that there was

something really beautiful about hanging

out wide, of seeing this beautiful

composition of seeing everything happen

like a silent movie. It allowed the

scene to not be so sentimental. And um I

saw that I saw that in in some ways the

constraint that I had allowed me to find

something in the scene that was richer.

Very often the constraints that come up

whether it's the sun going down or the

crew has to break for lunch or your your

your actor broke their knee. Uh these

these these happen stance things that

happen allow you to open up to improvise

and to come up with something that in

some ways is clearer and much more the

point of your vision than you ever

anticipated.

There's a scene that I I'd love to

introduce you to uh where uh Lectar is

telling her uh is kind of reading her

her beads and saying, you know, you with

your good bag and your cheap shoes. Um

and it's really just a reaction shot.

Oh, agents darling, you think you can

dissect me with this blunt little tool?

No, I I I thought that your knowledge

You're so ambitious, aren't you?

You know what you look like to me with

your good bag and your cheap shoes? You

look like a robe. A well scrubbed,

hustling robe with a little taste.

Good nutrition's given you some length

of bone, but you're not more than one

generation from poor wire trash, are

you, Agent Starling? And that accent

you've tried so desperately to shed pure

West Virginia. What does your father do?

Is he a coal miner? Does he stinkle the

land? You know how quickly the boys

found you. All those tedious sticky

fumblings in the back seats of cars

while you could only dream of getting

out, getting anywhere, getting all the

way to the end of the eye.

You see a lot, doctor.

When are you strong enough to point that

high powered perception at yourself?

What about it? Why don't you Why don't

you look at yourself and write down what

you see?

Maybe you're afraid to. She kind of

takes this assault that Lectra gives to

her. And the camera pushes in very

slowly. And we see her change from being

steelely and above it all to being

touched by his violence

to finally acquiescing and agreeing that

he's hurt her and trying to turn that in

to go back to what her mission as an FBI

agent was. Uh but we get to see the pain

and the hurt of a past that is working

in her present that even she doesn't

understand. Um, it doesn't always have

to be dialogue. Uh, very often the most

powerful moments on screen are without

dialogue. There's an interesting moment

in that scene uh that I showed to you,

Sounds of the Lambs, where Lecter makes

fun of Clarice's accent.

And, uh, that was not rehearsed. That

was just something that um, Anthony

Hopkins came up with. Um, I was an

actress learning how to speak in a West

Virginia accent. And when I heard him

make fun of my accent, it really made me

mad.

And um it's an interesting thing that

happens. I think that you can you can

feel that. You can feel this kind of

shame of having tried so hard to be

something and having somebody humiliate

you and not being able to do anything

about it because you're smaller, you're

more fragile, and um you're scared.

Very often with independent movies,

maybe you'll be doing a scene that's 8

10 pages long and you've got dialogue

between characters. It's very long. How

are you going to know or remember which

take is good and which take isn't? How

are you going to remember whether you

had that line really good on that angle?

One of the things that I've started

doing is um I will simultaneously

make a little check on the lines on that

particular take that I really like. I

may not have a lot of money. I may not

have a lot of time. And that way I'll

remember if there's one particular line

that he might be having trouble with,

but I really like it in that take, then

I know I've got it and I can move on.

Let's just say you have a very elaborate

sequence that involves a lot of cameras

and a lot of dialogue. Uh, for example,

uh, the show, the beginning of the show

of Money Monster, you have George

Clooney coming in, you have a control

room filled with people that are having

lots of dialogue in between. You have

another guy who's sneaking into a

building who's in a totally different

location. Um, and George's character,

Lee, has these long, long, long

monologues that are covered from five

different cameras. Five different what

we call video cameras, even though they

have video. And then also there are film

cameras as well. The only way to be able

to keep track of all of the performances

to make sure that you have what you need

on the sizes that you're really hoping

for is to be able to take these scribbly

little notes. Uh what I like to do is um

it looks really dumb.

um I will

uh put the seam number and then I'll put

the letter number of the of the angle

and then uh on this particular line for

example uh you can tell that I liked uh

the first take the second take the third

take and the fourth take the third is

starred so the third make take must have

been good um and then I like for this

line I like four and two and three and

four and so forth um if let's just say

we get to a line And

uh oh, I get to a line and I only have

um I only have uh and I and I've we've

gone through five different takes and I

realize that I don't have anything

circled for that one particular line

that I was really hoping for. Then I

might pick it up in the angle that I'm

hoping for. So I might pick it up and

just do that one line because it's the

one line that I don't have exactly the

way that I want it. Now, this sounds as

if every time somebody speaks, I'm going

to be on their face. Well, I'm not. Not

necessarily. Sometimes a camera, a

character is speaking and I'm on

somebody else. I'm on a reaction shot.

But I want to make sure that just in

case I happen to be on their face that I

have the that I'm comfortable with that

particular take. And when you're looking

at scenes that are 13 or 14 pages long,

uh if you hadn't made these type of

notes, you might be lost. You might be

get to the cutting room and realize that

you just you don't have the take that

you needed.

I have a long collaboration with Diane

Drier, my favorite script supervisor.

Um, and she really is, I think, the

closest person to me on the film, uh, so

far in all the films that I've directed

and some that I've acted in. Um, she's

the person that I trust the most and we

have the most elaborate conversations.

Um I believe that her mind works

similarly to mine. She's a communicator.

She's very verbal and um she she lives

in that side of her brain and sometimes

um not all DPS do because they are such

a visual beast. Not all composers do

because they deal with music and so

their language is different. But um

Diane as a script supervisor is there to

talk through story uh to talk through

the editing and how the the the

shots that we're achieving in production

will end up being cut into the final

film. Um there are always surprises that

happen and both Diane and I remark on

that so that we notice them. Her entire

job is to write all of this down. She is

the person who is the archavist and the

logger of every single thing that

happens from real from magazine changes

on the camera although we all shoot in

digital now and now it's cards um to uh

where the movements of the camera to how

the actors may have changed the lines a

bit um to their different matching

problems. Did he hold the coffee cup in

his right hand on one take? Did he hold

the coffee cup in his left hand on the

other take? Uh when the cigarette went

to his mouth. Um there isn't any sort of

she basically has to notice everything

and in noticing she is the person that

um I really look to to to really create

the film

Well, we've seen how it works when you

have one perfect take and you're able to

build on that. Uh, sometimes you have to

do a lot of takes and um, as an actor

that can be a painful process because

you have to be able to find spontaneity.

You have to make it feel real. It has to

you have to discover it in that moment

as if it was just happening to you. And

you may have to do that 20, 30, 40,

sometimes a hundred times, David

Fincher.

And um that's a it's an interesting

skill, you know, how do you

how do you bring that up again? You you

can't manufacture it. Sometimes that

means that the takes will change over

time. The takes that you did in the

beginning are just never going to be the

same as the ones you did in the end. And

maybe those last takes are better

because you're exhausted, because you're

sweaty, because it doesn't have the same

spin that it might have had, or maybe

like a ball that's moving, you have a

momentum of emotion that by the time

that you get to take 20 or 25, your

character is just sort of giving

everything that he has. In this case,

Jack Oonnell uh is finally at the end of

the movie after having lived for the

entire movie trying to get somebody to

acknowledge his pain to not even to give

him his money back, not even to give him

his wife back, not even to give him his

life back. He knows if he's caught, if

he ends ends this day, he'll end up

going to prison probably for the rest of

his life. He just wants to hear

something that acknowledges what he's

suffered and that says that he matters.

We'll get to see um my poor torturing of

Jack and making him do take after take

after take. Um

I think that the takes were wonderful. I

think that there were some technical

things that I was trying to accomplish

as well. Don't forget that he's going to

have to give this emotional performance,

but he's also going to have to make sure

that he doesn't hide his face with his

hand, that his hand is always in frame,

that when he turns to his left shoulder,

that he doesn't block the other actor so

that the camera can see past, that he

remains in focus. There's any number of

different technical constraints that an

actor has to simultaneously

help with and collaborate with and

participate with. Um, he's going to have

to give this performance on one hand,

but he's going to have to also

accommodate the camera so that what

we're hoping for will end up on screen.

That's all I wanted to hear, man.

It was wrong.

That's all I wanted to hear, man.

It was wrong.

It's all I wanted to hear, man.

That's all I wanted to hear, man.

That's all I wanted to hear, man.

It was wrong.

That's all I wanted to hear, man.

It was wrong.

That's all I wanted to hear, man.

It was wrong.

That's all I wanted to hear, man.

wonderful thing about Jack O Connell is

that um he uh he loves a kind of

primitive language. Um he speaks and

sometimes he speaks a different

vocabulary than I do and so both of us

have to translate. Um he just wants me

to talk to him in terms of character. So

um he doesn't want me to talk about film

making. He doesn't he doesn't uh he

doesn't respond as much to kind of an

intellectual discourse about what it

means or um uh or taking it apart the

way you might take apart a book report.

Um he's he doesn't he's not looking for

literary criticism. I think he really

wants me to be in the moment with him as

an actor. Um very simple, very primitive

uh feel really talking about feelings.

Um the the other thing that I know about

him is that as time goes on, there's a

momentum to his feeling and you'll

you'll see that at the beginnings of

these takes. um he he he's you know it

works beautifully, but as time goes on,

he starts sweating. He starts sweating

some more. As we got to the end of the

takes um when he's getting closer to the

death scene, it's like this unc

uncontrollable sweat flops that come off

of him. Um that when you see them on

screen, it's interesting how raw that

translates to. So I do like getting him

through a lot of takes and then getting

him to those end takes.

It was wrong.

It was wrong.

It was wrong. It was wrong.

It's all I wanted to hear, man.

The way the editing process works is

very similar to the way the rewriting

process works. Um, you have uh you have

a scene and then you just keep chipping

away at it, right? You keep making it

better, making it more meaningful,

having discussions about what the scene

really means and then you just keep

chipping away at it and chipping away at

it, adding pieces. And that's where you

really start having a dialogue about

your movie that's different than at any

other time because you have the existing

footage in front of you. You can't

create footage from nowhere. You can't

pretend that there was something else in

another box. It's all sitting there in

front of you. You start having your

collaboration with your editor. He will

do an assembly and then I'll look at the

assembly and uh make tons and tons and

tons of notes. I'll probably hang my

head in shame in the beginning part of

the process because the assembly always

feels awful. Uh and uh then you start

knowing all of your footage as you start

going through the footage and uh you

start talking through the footage um

trying different things. In the old

days, we used to have um it really was

film and we cut on uh cut on film and

you had to really understand what was in

every one of those reels because you had

to take it out of the reel. You had to

pull it down, you had to put it on the

thing, you had to cut it, then you had

to show it one way, then you had to cut

it back and show it a second way in

order to do comparisons. So in the old

days, you developed a skill of being

able to really pay attention to what the

performances were, to what the movements

were, so that you could remember them to

bring them back from take to take and

say, "I like take one for this reason. I

like take four for this reason. I like

this line on take three. I don't like

the wide shot." To be able to make all

of those choices, you have to have a

memory, a sort of emotional memory of

what the actors are doing and what the

characters are doing, and also be able

to have a technical memory of what

they're doing physically. One of the

wonderful things about digital

technology is that you can push a lot of

buttons and say, is it better? Is it

worse? Is it better? Is it worse? Is it

better? Is it worse? You can toggle back

and forth between things to make

decisions. But I still believe that your

memory is your greatest tool. Uh if you

can look at things the old way and start

asking yourself questions about why you

like that line reading better than the

other line reading or what that

performance is telling you that the

other performance wasn't telling you.

These ongoing dialogues that you have

with yourself and with the editor where

you put yourself in each of the

characters point of view. You know ask

start asking questions like why does he

wait so long before he gives him the

answer or is he telling him the truth?

Does he really have a $100 in his pocket

or is he just saying he does? You start

asking all of these questions as if you

were the characters. Then you can make

sense of the scene and you'll know which

are the angles that you need to use in

order to express the ideas that you're

trying to come up with.

Well, this scene is uh incredibly

potent. My favorite scene in the movie.

I think the most successful scene in the

movie. Um, and it's a good example of an

actor coming to the table and bringing

something that is just magic that I

don't touch. When I see something like

that, it's a bolt of lightning. Uh, this

actress, Emily me, wonderful actress,

really brought this performance. The

character is coming in. Her her

boyfriend has uh has taken everybody

hostage. She's eight months pregnant.

And you think that she's going to talk

him off the ledge and tell him why he

needs to put the gun down and the bomb

down and and come out and instead

something else happens.

One, two, two, take one.

Action.

Watch your step. Go ahead. Go ahead. Now

you're going to look into that lens and

he'll see you inside. And just remember,

our only goal is to get him to put the

weapon down and come out. Okay.

All right.

Kyle,

are you there?

What are you doing?

K. Kyle.

Kyle, can he see me?

Yeah, he can.

Can Can he see me through the

Yeah, just look in the lens.

Kyle.

Kyle.

Kyle. He's not Kyle.

Kyle,

what am I doing here? Kyle, what are you

doing here?

God,

you are the dumbest son of a [ __ ] on

the planet. You know that? They told me

about the money, Kyle. You are so

[ __ ] stupid. That was everything we

had. That was every last scent.

You are such a [ __ ] failure, Kyle.

You know that you have always been such

a [ __ ] failure. You sat down in the

basement all night reading your [ __ ]

books thinking you were some kind of a

smart guy, but you aren't. You [ __ ]

aren't. And now you go and you do this.

You blow all your mother's money like

some kind of a halfway. And then you

come in here with a [ __ ] bomb.

Turn off Christ.

You hardly even know how to use a

screwdriver. That is how useless you are

around the house. And now you're going

and you're building [ __ ] bombs. And

when did you become such a man all of a

sudden? But you're not a man. You're a

[ __ ] That's what you are. You hear me,

Kyle? You are a [ __ ] You cry when we

[ __ ] You pasty little [ __ ]

Get the [ __ ] off of me, [ __ ] I

am seven months pregnant. [ __ ] you. And

[ __ ] you, too, Kyle. This is all your

[ __ ] fault. Why don't you just shoot

yourself in the head and get it over

with already?

Come on, you chicken [ __ ] Just pull the

[ __ ] trigger. Pull the [ __ ] out of

here.

Emily me brought this performance to the

table. And once we saw that, uh, we saw

the truth of it. It all happened all at

once, all direct to camera. Um, there

was something so raw and so true about

it. There's something wonderful about

when she charges the camera and bits and

pieces of her out of frame as if it

can't contain her rage. Uh, it's

wonderful how she was able to build the

performance from not knowing what she's

going to say to him to starting to

insult him for it to rise and rise into

this rage and finally telling him, "Pull

the trigger. Kill yourself. Pull the

trigger." On the other side, the

reaction shot with Jack Oonnell is just

one camera on a dolly moving slowly into

his face. Um, he is seeing her at a

certain point. the the plug gets pulled

on Molly's rant and it goes dark. It

goes black, but the audio is still

going. So, when she starts calling him a

[ __ ] and all of that kind of stuff, it

goes black and he has to react just to

her voice. Um, as an actor, sometimes

you have the person off camera,

sometimes you don't. Sometimes you have

an X on a flag instead of a person, but

you have to have that memory of the

impact. And every single time uh that

Jack H heard that performance, of

course, it had an impact, but it never

had the same impact as it had on take

one the first time that he heard uh that

rant. Uh you'll notice that there's an

adlib in there where Jack says,

"Don't touch her. Get your hands off

her. Don't touch her." And there's

something for me that's so moving about

that adlib because even though this

woman is calling him a failure and is

telling him most horrible things about

himself, the disappointment that he has

in himself and and and and

how how reviled she is in his eye in her

eyes, he still wants to protect her

because she's the mother of his child

and she doesn't he doesn't want the

police to hurt her.

Kyle.

Yeah. What are you doing here?

What am I doing here?

Yeah,

Kyle,

what are you doing here?

I thought you were working today. I

What?

You are the dumbest son of a [ __ ] on

the planet. You know that? They told me

about the money, Kyle. You are so

[ __ ] stupid. That was everything we

had. That was every last scent.

You are such a [ __ ] failure, Kyle.

You know that you have always been such

a [ __ ] failure. You sat down in the

basement all night reading your [ __ ]

books thinking you were some kind of a

smart guy, but you aren't. You [ __ ]

aren't. And now you go and you do this.

You blow all your mother's money like

some kind of a halfway. And then you

come in here with a [ __ ] bomb.

Turn off.

You hardly even know how to use a

screwdriver. That is how useless you are

on the house. And now you're going and

you're building [ __ ] bombs. And when

did you become such a man all of a

sudden?

But you're not a man. You're a [ __ ]

That's what you are. You hear me, Kyle?

You are a [ __ ] You cry when we [ __ ]

You pasty little [ __ ]

Get the [ __ ] off of me, [ __ ]

Don't you [ __ ] [ __ ] you and [ __ ] you,

too, Kyle. This is all your [ __ ]

fault. Why don't you just shoot yourself

in the head and get it over with

already? Come on, you chicken [ __ ] Just

pull the [ __ ] trigger. Pull the

[ __ ] trigger.

The beauty of Jack's reaction shot is

that it changes. Uh he starts out

hearing the words and having it wash

over him. It paralyzes him. It makes him

go back to memories of perhaps of how he

does deserve this

this this feeling of failure. Um and

then there is a kind of resignation. Um

he we we go through the part where he

protects her and wants to protect her

from the police and then there's this

resignation. Uh at the end uh George

Clooney comes towards him and tries to

move the cameras away to give him more

space because George Clooney's character

of course doesn't want him to not take

his finger off the button and blow

everybody up um and ushers him over to a

chair uh to sit down, get a get a glass

of water and to have some have a breath.

And um there's something so generous

about that moment where suddenly uh Lee

George Clooney's character realizes that

this man is just a human being. He's

just a kid. And he understands that

uh Kyle is a failure, feels like a

failure just like George Clooney's

character feels like a failure. And that

really is their moment of connection

where uh the two men go from being

adversaries to being mirrors of the same

man. In this example that I've given,

you have two first take performances,

two raw first take performances of

people that are relating directly to

each other. So, we're experiencing

something incredibly intimate.

Strangely more intimate, because when

you see somebody on a TV screen and

their face is this big, you're strangely

more close than you might be if they

were standing 5t away and right next to

you. Um, so there's that deathly kind of

intimacy between Jack's character,

between Molly and Kyle. Now, we're going

to add in all the other people that are

witnessing this moment. And if you've

ever been a failure or felt that you

were a failure, the worst kind of

failure is when you're a failure in

front of millions and millions of

people, potentially billions of people

on the planet. All of them watching this

one event in real time. So, we had to be

very careful about how we brought in the

rest of the world. So, Molly and Kyle

may be having this intimate experience,

but there are people in a coffee shop in

Brooklyn or in a tire store in in in

uh in Queens or somewhere halfway around

the world where they're also

experiencing this and they're reveling

in it. um they're

maybe wincing because maybe they've felt

that way in their life or they've had

somebody yell at them like that or

they're scared that the button might get

pressed or they're laughing through it.

Um public humiliation is unlike anything

else. It's very different than the kind

of humiliation that two people have

together. And I wanted to make sure that

we built the tension of that moment by

using the world as well and the idea of

public humiliation.

You are such a [ __ ] failure, Kyle.

You know that you have always been such

a [ __ ] failure. You sat down in the

basement all night reading your [ __ ]

books thinking you were some kind of a

smart guy, but you aren't. You [ __ ]

aren't. And now you go and you do this.

You blow all your mother's money like

some kind of a halfway. And then you

come in here with a [ __ ] bomb.

Turn off.

You hardly even know how to use a

screwdriver. That is how useless you are

around the house. And now you're going

and you're building [ __ ] bombs. since

you become such a man all of a sudden.

But you're not a man. You're a [ __ ]

That's what you are. You hear me, Kyle?

You are a [ __ ] You cry when we [ __ ]

You pasty little [ __ ]

Get the [ __ ] off me, [ __ ] I'm

trying to [ __ ] you. And [ __ ] you, too,

Kyle. This is all your [ __ ] fault.

Why don't you just get it over with and

shoot yourself in the head already, you

chicken [ __ ] Come on, just pull the

[ __ ] trigger. follow the [ __ ]

editing decisions about where we should

be at any one given moment. You know,

how we should present these series of

shots. Um, each choice that you make is

meaningful and it's a long process of

figuring out how each decision that you

make might change the impact on the

audience or the feeling for the story.

Um,

you can make a very strong choice, for

example, of having a having a very

moving scene where you're on one wide

shot and you never leave. Uh, you don't

cut to other uh pieces of coverage. And

there's something very powerful that

happens with that. There's a um a

loneliness about that where the image

itself has to tell the story. Uh there's

something it almost looks like a

painting. And it looks like the way a

Renaissance painting might be sort of a

widescreen caravio where we have the

characters that are all placed in this

landscape and there is a distance

between the audience and the characters.

We do that intentionally. In this case,

uh, in Money Monster, there is a a

question in the movie about about how

it's fast, how everything's fast and how

we're all connected. And there's

something about this connectivity and

all this access and all this modern

technology where that's quite violent

and where something that is a private

shame becomes a public shame

immediately. Uh where it's impossible to

understand who you really are because

you're refracted in all these millions

of different directions. I mean that was

one of the bigger ideas in the film and

it's something that also is executed in

the cutting style and how we see an

experience that should be happening

between two people but we also have to

see the impact it has on the whole

world. Every film requires uh a

different you have to have a different

pair of eyes for every film. It's a

different story. It needs a different

cinematographer. It needs a different

cast, a different location. In this

case, in the case of Money Monster, um

the editing style is a is is a sort of

quick cutting editing style until we

land on scenes between two people and

then we allow themselves to sort of to

really almost play like a play, like a

theater. Um I think it's always helpful

to start when you're going to make a

decision about how I cut this scene is

to start with the characters to say, you

know, who are they? Who are they in this

moment? What are they feeling? and how

do I want to feel through them and

through their bodies? Understanding what

is your point of view? Is your point of

view uh Kyle's point of view? Is your

point of view uh Lee's point of view?

You know, establishing who your point of

view is in the scene and and in fact in

the movie and then having the editing

process reflect that.

in the cutting room. There's uh a lot of

adventures in figuring out when to hold

them and when to fold them of what you

hold on to in terms of uh the vision of

your film, in terms of the edit, and

what you acquies to. Um

that's a tough one. uh in in in the best

possible world, you end the process

feeling like you made exactly the film

that you were hoping to make and that

none of the cuts that you made were

sacrifices that they were really made

the film better. And for the most part,

um you know, a lot most of my

experiences have been that way, but I

have also had other experiences as well.

And it can be very demoralizing. Um

there's there's nothing like the how you

doubt yourself and how painful a process

it is as being in the cutting room and

knowing that you see something that

other people don't see. I highly

recommend uh bringing in people that uh

we call them friend screenings. Uh I

call them someone else's friend

screenings cuz I've learned that I don't

want my friends to be at the friend

screening uh the first friend screening.

I prefer it to be a stranger who's in

the film business who's able to very

quietly take you aside and be supportive

and say um I don't know I think the

pacing might be off in this section or

uh just just the big things you pacing

is off or I didn't understand what that

character was saying or he yelled a lot

is there is that that's a problem for me

I tuned off because he was yelling a lot

really listen to people um I think

especially writers uh writers and other

editors because those are people who

know how to not just tell you what your

problems are, but they know how to help

you find solutions to be able to fix

those problems or ameliate those

problems or maybe turn those problems

into your strengths.

There's an unending amount of things to

talk about about the film business. Um,

the world that I'm completely fascinated

by. Uh, the one thing that we haven't

touched on is music and what music

brings to the film. Uh, for me it's my

favorite part of the process because

it's the place where you finally at the

end of all of your trials and

tribulations and you finally created

this monster made with glue and scotch

tape and and that has all of these, you

know, sewing marks on it and scars. Um,

the music is the thing that erases all

the seams. Uh, it's the thing that turns

and that allows this organic being, this

movie that you've created to suddenly

have lifeblood that it walks and talks

away from you and becomes its own

entity. Um, I've used m music

differently in many of my movies. I tend

to be drawn to music that is really

grounded and that feels real. Uh that

being said, Money Monster, a film that

deals a lot with technology and digital

age and computer high frequency trading

and things that are very modern, fast,

fast, fast, we did use a, you know, a

much more computerheavy uh feeling to

it. Sometimes the music comes out of the

characters deeper processes. Um

you know, if you're making a movie about

um you know, an organ grinder, you know,

you don't necessarily have to have an

organ grinder be the music. You know,

you can choose something different. In

fact, it might be more interesting if

you chose something different. Um, it

doesn't need to be a a direct uh literal

communication with the character, but

there's something inwardly evocative

about the music. Um, I I do like the

music to erase the seams. Uh, perhaps

for a prologue, we might use something

bold like the tango um or the Ella

Fitzgerald song in Little Man Tate. Um

uh but for the rest of the movie, I I

really like the music to not just stand

out and say, "Look at me." I like the

music to

uh to really form the edges, you know,

and to uh use the character's own

momentum um and not to over overshadow

them or overplay them.

In some cases, you know, the the musical

arc, the arc of the music is is really a

reflection of the characters arc and

where they've come from. Um, I think

about a little bit about the score for

Little Man Tate, one that I'm very proud

of. It was Mark Aisham, the great dra

jazz trumpeteer and and composer. Um,

when I think of the character of Fred

Tate, you know, I think of a lonely

piano. um he is a piano prodigy in the

movie and so we knew that there was

going to be a lot of piano in it. It

also has a feeling of sort of a young

lonely person but it also has a

classical edge to it so it's somewhat

cerebral cerebral and of the heart at

the same time. uh the character of uh

Diane Wuest um she was a violinist in

the film that she had been a violinist

as a child and so uh that brought the

violin into it and that there's a a very

strained and classical structured uh

quality to her almost atonal and

cerebral to her and then there's Deei

the character that I play the mom um

she's a dancer and that's really uh you

know she's somebody who loves to dance

and she dances with her son and as you

know I have this emotional relationship

to dance there's something about it that

makes me nuts I love it Um, and it came

to me uh in a moment that the the a

unifying musical uh idea would be the

idea of jazz. Um, jazz is played by six

guys in a room and it sounds like six or

seven guys in a room. So, it really

sounds like you're there. And for a

person like Fred Tate who doesn't have a

family, uh people who who are just like

him, he feels alone and solitary, this

movie is about bringing together a jazz

band for him. Uh he finally belongs to a

group of oddballs and um so the jazz

music in the film uh evolves from the

beginning to the end. It starts with a

kind of a nostalgic. It starts with an

eleph song. Then it evolves into a kind

of a big band feeling and then it

becomes this lonely piano. Then we add

the violin to that and there's this kind

of antagonism between the violin and the

piano. But that's that's a cerebral

antagonism. And then we kind of bring

all of those influences together from

the French jazz band to, you know, the

violin uh jazz, you know, violin and

piano together to this final

amalgamation where he's finally he's got

this family. He's got this jazz band

family. Um uh that reminded me a lot of

uh French films from the New Wave

movement in the 1960s in France. uh

films like, you know, Murmur the Heart

and The 400 Blows and other films that

you might remember um that use jazz to

that effect. The idea of building a band

does direct uh is directly related to to

Fred's big idea about loneliness. you

know, the the the thing that I'm so

interested in about his this lonely

character that believes that he has to

choose between his head and his heart,

that he has to choose between his mother

and his his teacher, that he has to

choose between the part of him that's a

jazz pianist and the part of him that's,

you know, a lonely jazz pianist and the

part of him that wants to dance.

I definitely couldn't figure out the

music on the Beaver until way at the end

of the process. And um you know we had

some fumbles and it just wasn't working.

And uh I finally met Marcela Zarvos and

the night before it I I don't know I

just had an epiphany. I was I I

just I had this record of um Yoyo Ma uh

doing Pzola. Uh so the sort of famous

Argentinian kind of like tango but movie

music. And um I played that and I

thought like the tango I mean that's an

amazing idea. That whole first part of

the movie is this big long prologue that

goes on and on. The film is about a man

who's waring with himself. You know,

he's waring with himself. He's

destroying himself. And there was

something so weird and quirky about

having this tango in the beginning of

the movie. Um, and what we found too,

because it's such a long piece that has

to play is that the tango is repetitive,

right? Repeats over and over and over

again. So what Marcelo was able to do

was to use the tango so that it starts

with one instrument and then it moves

into another set of instruments and then

another set of instruments. So that this

tango may be repetitive but it keeps

changing and changing and changing. So

kind of in the same way that a dance

might change. The crazy thing about

applying music to your movie is that you

just never know what is the right music

until you finally see your film. uh you

can pretend to know, you can say you're

going to know, you can have lists, you

can organize it, you can prepare, but

you just never really know until the

film uh is in your hands, until you're

in

You know, I always say it's interesting.

I've been in the business for 50ome

years and um I've only made one movie

with a female director. Uh when I first

started making films and television

commercials, I never saw another woman's

face. Occasionally I would see a script

supervisor or maybe there was a makeup

and hair artist, but other than that it

was just me and a bunch of guys. That

was the world that we lived in. We

didn't know any better. That's just how

it was. Uh little by little things

changed. More technicians came into the

fold. You know, you might see one

technician come in and then little by

little more technicians came up and then

you know maybe writers or producers and

then suddenly there were studio heads

that were women. But interestingly that

didn't change the landscaped of women

directors. Um at least in America the

indie world they started creeping in.

Television they started creeping in but

for some reason women really had a hard

time cracking mainstream movies. I mean

mainstream distributed films. Um that is

all changing. Um we understand the

reasons why psychologically I think uh

it was difficult uh for the change to

happen. I don't think it was a plot of

some kind that people were trying to

keep us down and keep us out of the

director role. I think that it was

difficult for people in power, men and

women, to conceive of women as more than

just a risk. I think they saw inherently

the choice of a woman director in a

leadership role as a risk they were

taking. Not really quite sure why women

were more of a risk than men, but I

think that was just the internalized

prejudice. um now that there's an

awareness about that that is really

shifting. Um I'm really proud to have

been part of uh the few uh women in the

business in my era. Um and I have to say

I was given that opportunity because um

people knew me as an actor and um these

old guys, these wonderful grandfather

and father figures uh pointed at me and

said, "You're my prodigal daughter. I

trust you. I know you. you said you were

going to come at 8:45 and you arrived at

8:45 and I trust that you're going to

bring that movie in on time and I trust

that you have a vision and that you can

communicate yourself and that you're one

of us and I was given opportunities that

other women were not given and um I'm

grateful for that but I also understand

that I have uh I have a lot to give back

and I really want to encourage women to

become directors and to assume their

rightful leadership roles for the next

generation of women filmmakers out there

if it's you um I you know hope that this

is a a more fertile place and time for

you and for your stories. Um, but I also

know that um, you know, this is a a

community. It's a community of brothers

and fathers as well who are waiting for

your input, who are waiting for your

influence. Um, I was lucky. I had

amazing fathers and brothers in this

industry. And I was a girl who was

raised without a dad. So, I have a very

fonding for these men that uh, taught me

everything that they knew, who believed

in me and brought me up in this

business. and um who made me feel like I

was one of them. And uh I think that

that that's the lesson to be learned is

that um you know we all can extend our

hands and want to be a community, a

community of people that look different

and have different stories to tell and

can collaborate with each other.

The process of making a movie is like

putting all this stuff, all the stuff,

the history that you came from, your

relationship with your parents, um the

first time you fell in love, the

paintings that you love, uh how you feel

about the movie. You put it all on a uh

like an arrow and you try to shoot it

out as straight as possible to whether

it's to the audience or to uh people

that you don't know, strangers out

there. And it's possible that that arrow

goes directly outwards and that you

connect completely 100% with that other

person. But what's most likely is that

there's a trajectory um that it gets

moved around by air. It isn't a direct

path and they can only the subset in

between this area in between

understanding where I connect with you

is completely imperfect. We're just

trying to communicate ourselves better.

Sometimes we get there, sometimes we

don't. Sometimes the result works,

sometimes the result doesn't work. But

the process of wanting more of me to hit

more of you is really what film making

is about. One of the things that I'm

hoping for you is that you'll just do

it. There's a lot of worry and anxiety

that goes into film making of saying,

you know, will what I have to say, is it

worth it? Will people like it? Will

people think it's interesting? Will they

think it's meaningful? Will it be

relevant? most important thing is to

just do it. Is to get it out and to get

it on screen, on tape, on YouTube,

whatever it takes to have experience

with making it come from you to the

screen.