Original subtitles

When I'm sitting next to the director

and we're watching the piece of music up

against the screen and we're watching it

together, he doesn't have to say

anything to me. You know, I I I'm

usually the first one to go, "Yes, I

know it's completely wrong and I know

what to do." And what was interesting

for instance when I was working on

Batman Begins in in the sort of

collaboration between James Newton

Howard, myself and Chris Nolan because I

I I was watching

you know sort of slightly out of body

experience or you know I was watching

how tough it is on the director to

actually go and he knows how hard you

worked on it and he doesn't he you know

he doesn't want to go and be rude about

it or whatever but If it doesn't work,

it doesn't work. And it's very hard to

have to look somebody in the eye and go,

I know you sweated bullets over this

thing, but it's just not working for me.

It's tough. And so, when it was the

three of us, when it was James, Chris,

and I, you know, if there was some if

there was something that um Chris didn't

like about an approach or or if if there

was a better idea to be had or whatever,

it was a conversation. He didn't have to

just look me straight in the eye because

as I'm going, "Oh my god, what am I

going to do?" James also really coming

up with, you know, hey, what about if we

do this and try this? So,

the revisions are just about getting it

to be better. Well, and and better isn't

necessarily the quality of the music,

but it's understanding what we're trying

to say in this scene and just getting

better at executing it.

The first revision really happens as I

write this musical diary, which is just

my way of figuring myself into the

story, into the material, into the

director's brain, into the style we're

going to be presenting this thing in.

And it's really me learning the movie.

So there is a revision process that goes

on all the time. Even though I don't go

backwards, as I move forwards, I'm, you

know, revising my aim. I mean, I'm

getting more precise about what it is,

you know, what the thing itself is that

I'm trying to say. And music is

indefensible in a funny way. I mean, one

of the pro one of the problems with

music is it's indefensible. You cannot

argue about music. You either like it or

you don't. It either moves you or it

doesn't. But um so sometimes you know if

it literally becomes doesn't do anything

for me great okay chuck it out start

again um but usually by the time I play

something to a director um I know why

those notes are there just

as he knows why that scene is there or

why that shot is there or why the camera

is is at a certain angle and why this is

a night scene as opposed to some

breakfast scene even though the light

would have been better at 5:00 in the

morning, etc. But we

we sort of intellectually can defend the

thing. The only thing we can't do is I I

I will never be able to talk you into

liking a certain piece of music and I

will not ever attempt it. I because I

just what's the point? What's the point,

you know? Um

and then it's just things we discover

together, you know? Oh, hang on a

second. If if we moved this if we moved

the whole queue down 20 ft I mean that

was the Terry Malik thing we would go

and that journey to the line piece which

is

is it 7 minutes long something like that

it's pretty it's it's lengthy we spend

all day moving it by one frame later

watching it

moving it two frames earlier watching it

you know I mean uh

we knew the piece was good and we knew

the film almost good. It's just it's all

a bit like, you know, you're sitting

there under an apple tree in the middle

of summer and you're just holding your

hand out and just that apple just drops

off the tree right into your hand. I

mean, that's how you want the music in

the scene to work. And it's not always

that easy, but the So, the revisions are

happening constantly.

I can't remember what movie it was on,

but I was secretly quite proud of a

little Qite written and I came outside

my studio and Harry Gregson Williams was

walking down the hallway and I said,

"Hey, Harry, can I just play you

something?" Thinking

this, you know, showing off, right? This

is always

where it always goes wrong. So pray

Harry this thing. I'm going what do you

think? He goes oh hands Hansel as he

calls me that is so not worth worthy of

you you know and and you go okay

revision you know might want to go and

and and listen to somebody who has my

best interest at heart.

Seriously it's it's look you and me

we're having a bit of a chat here. I you

can ask me anything you want and I will

tell you anything. I'll talk about

anything. But when it comes to playing a

piece of music, I become very very

fragile because it's sort of,

you know, I keep describing it as its

own autonomous language and all that

stuff. Well, that there's a downside to

that. I feel you can absolutely and

completely

figure out who I am when I play you this

piece of music. It's the most personal

and private thing I can do. So before I

unleash it on the director and I never

look at them when I play it to them for

the first time just in case there's like

a shadow of disdain running across their

face. I play it to to my music editor

because you know I work with a Bob Adam

for god I don't know we're very very

old. The two of us together probably

yeah we are more than a century. um you

know, Alex Gibson, um Melissa Mu, these

are all people that I, you know, I trust

with more than my life cuz that's what

it feels like because when you when you

play that piece of music,

like you can't [ __ ] you know,

that's this is it moment of truth. And I

don't want to I don't want to hear any

great praise, etc. and they they know

exactly how to react and because I just

ask them, you know, and it's very

simple. It's very binary. I go, "Is it

[ __ ] or is it not [ __ ] If it's not

[ __ ] we can play it."

With the the great directors I get to

work with, they

they they don't even go, "Oh, yeah, this

is good or this is bad." or they they

instantly go into okay well this is

great and you know this can it triggers

a whole set of conversation and ideas

and where we can go and take it because

of course I lie to them. I pretend, you

know, it just came to me suddenly and it

took me 10 minutes to do when I was

really sweating for six weeks, you know,

and um going through, you know, panic

attacks and everything else. Um so, so

they know, you know, they they know

they know I'm fragile and they'll

respect that. Yeah. I remember Chris

Nolan once saying to me with a piece

that I I didn't really believe in

either, going, "Well, maybe that should

be for another movie." I'm going, "Yeah,

I know exactly what you mean. Let's spin

it." You know, it's a very gentle, you

know, a gentle way of telling telling me

it wasn't, you know, and and I mean,

that's that's part of it where, you

know, we're we're fragile when we do

this stuff. And so,

I remember one one of the first

directors I ever worked with, you know,

when I was doing small independent films

in England, he was just really rude to

me all the time before I had even

written anything. So, I hadn't I hadn't

made a mistake yet. I finally said to

him, you know, why are you being so

grumpy all the time with me? And he

goes, "Well, I just want you to know

where you're at. That when I hear that

piece of music and I say it's great, I

really mean it and I really tell you the

truth." And really, honestly, that's

what you want. I mean, I've I've had a

situation where a director would tell

me, "Oh, it's just marvelous, darling.

It's just the best thing I've ever

heard. It's just so great. It saved my

the line. I am not making this up. You

saved my movie except and then he

started digging into it and it it

carried on digging into it until we

basically got to the truth which was he

preferred the temp and temp was written

by me. So it wasn't like he wasn't even

saying somebody else was better. He was

being in a peculiar way more insulting

by saying I used to be good. But somehow

you know your job is you just figure out

figure out what the idea is and you you

know you phone your director and go hey

look I have an idea what if we

approached it from a completely

different angle or something like that.

It's your job to figure out how to fix

it. You know you broke it you fix it.