All language subtitles for MasterClass Hans Zimmer Teaches Film Scoring - 21Working With Musicians The Orchestra Part 1

anybody can learn how to use a computer

and how to make sounds and

anybody can learn how to orchestrate.

You can go to music school. You can

learn how to play. These are all things

that are being taught constantly.

But I think one of the great things

that's missing is

how do you have the conversation? You

know, how not to be afraid. You know, it

actually takes takes a bit of getting

used to like you and me right now having

this simple conversation while there's a

huge crew floating around be behind us

and we're pretending they're not here.

But that's not what we're doing. We're

actually doing the opposite. we're

doing. Everybody's here to support us

making doing something great. And that's

the same with the with composing. So

when you stand in front of the

orchestra,

know that they're there to to support

you and make make it the best, you know,

as opposed to being worried about all

that. But it takes a bit of time, you

know, and and and you have to sort of

earn their respect as well. So, I mean,

I I remember the first few times

having the orchestra in and it was

literally like lion taming, you know?

You like you walk Oh, you walk out there

and and and they're just looking at you

going, "So, what do you know?" you know,

and and and the only way you can prove

it is is by writing a decent tune or

having a decent idea,

you know, and go

there these two percussionists in

London, Frank Ricotti

and Gary Catel, and they played pretty

much on every movie that ever existed, I

think from, you know, before Star Wars

on. So, they played on everything. And

secretly my ambition every time I record

a score there is to just find one thing

that they haven't done before. And

usually it's like you know well if you

were to hit the temps with brushes and

at first you get that'll never work. And

then if you're lucky they go out there

and they do it and they go wow H that

sounds really good. We've never done

this before. So you know you every time

just push it forward a bit. And if you

push it forward a bit, they love you for

it. You know that because the the the

musicians are your are your biggest

allies. I mean, they are the ones

ultimately, you know, this is just me

playing around on a computer.

Ultimately, you know, the real musicians

give it something that no machine can

do.

when you get to the orchestra session

and this is partly why why I do these

demos why I do these sweets why we mock

the whole movie up why we have showed it

to an audience so but by the time we get

to the orchestra session we're on very

very solid ground because when when I

first got to Hollywood people were just

writing on paper um and the first time

the director really would hear the thing

would be either somebody had played it

to him on piano and then which is not

quite the same as when you have a 120

piece orchestra blasting away at you.

Some people can do it. Some people can

do it brilliantly. Obviously, John

Williams can do it brilliantly because

he is an amazing pianist and the

relationship he has with Steven

Spielberg allows that, you know, where

John can play and goes and this is where

the French horns come in, etc. And

Steven hears it because he's incredibly

musical. Um, but with most directors

this works better whereby

they hear

at least the weight and the density of

the score, you know, oh, this is where

the strings have the tune and this is

where it goes to the French horns. Um,

so then when you get to the orchestra

session and this is this is where things

become super expensive, you know, it's I

can't remember I I once worked it out

how much a second costs. So what's

important there a couple of things which

are very important that you can make a

decision

all and every uh uh uh uh let me think

about this not only costs a fortune but

it stops the momentum and I think the

orchestra session is about one thing and

one thing only and that is to get a

performance out of the guys because

I can make all those notes sound pretty

convincing and pretty spiffy in the

computer. Um, but what I what the

computer lacks is

the the the sort of cohesive musicality,

the

feel, you know, and energy and the

danger that real musicians bring to it,

you know, virtuoso playing. Um,

the, you know, the the the in the

interpretation of each note. So once I

get to the orchestra, I actually work

very efficiently because we aren't going

to do any changes.

We've all signed off on these notes.

It's just so it's not like in the old

days where, you know, after the director

heard it for the first time with the big

orchestra would go, you know, something

I don't really like it or I don't like

this bit. Can we change this bit? And

something that took maybe weeks to go

and you write and orchestrate and be

very refined was now going to be changed

in 10 minutes live on the stand. So it

had to become a compromise and I'm just

not willing to make that compromise.

The thing that I found out is

if you make them into your

co-conspirators, if you treat them as

colleagues, if you treat them as

brothers and sisters in arms, they're

going to give you their best. Um,

if you don't do that, they'll eat you

alive.

Um, and if you're not clear about the

emotional intention of the music,

um,

it'll sound like [ __ ] Um, for instance,

I mean, on pirates, it was very

important for us that the orchestra

would sound a certain way. In other

words, they they've I don't know what

they came from, but let's say they just

came from playing a John Williams

session or or something like this. So

they were still in the mode of

whatever the movie was, Saving Private

Right. I I don't know, you know, but

that's not the sound I want. I wanted

drunken pirates. So you're since the

musicians are my actors, they have to

learn the attitude. And so we just work

on attitude for a little bit on

performance attitude. What is this, you

know, what is the sound we are looking

for, you know? Um because

I mean a C is a C is a C is a C right

but you know what differentiates it you

know there's there's a there's so many

there's so many you know as soon as I

start playing I stop talking not because

I can't do both at the same time but

just because I automatically feel you

know By

by playing I can be more articulate and

I just have to I have to give my players

a chance because I know they can play

anything and they can site read. They

could site readad a whole score. We

could do it all in one take but to learn

what's behind the notes. That's the

important thing. This is actually where

it's weirdly helpful that I never went

to music school

because I'm a little vague with my

Italian and since orchestras usually get

spoken to with you know can we do a

ritando here and can we be a bit more al

dente? No, that's cooking. Um

but but do do you know I mean I just I I

try to speak to them from a story point

of view. I try to tell them what the

scene is about. Uh very often, you know,

if if I can have the, you know, director

go out and just okay guys, let me tell

you what the scene is about. Um you

know, rather than say play pianisimo,

say play more internal, I don't know,

find emotional words that suggest what

you're trying to what you're asking them

to convey. But if you can say to them

what you know what this piece is about

and not in technical terms technical

terms that's that's you know written

down you know it's like play a C you

know forimo

um that just tells you that you're

supposed to play that C loud but it

doesn't tell you why you're supposed to

play that C loud and you know

this sounds so daft but I'm just I'm

just going to give you all the dumb

things which helped me sometimes when

the orchestration is really dense. No,

you know because remember the orchestra

that like the vias have only their part

in front of them. Violins only have

their part in front of them uh etc etc

etc. So they are they are all just you

know this is the arm this is the leg you

know they don't know how the body fits

together. So sometimes it's really good

to literally whoever has the tune just

right on top of their part the tune so

they know okay we got the tune better

play out a little bit everybody else

just shush right um simple you know

stop being technical stop being

scientific you know communicate to them

you know in in the simplest possible

Hey. Hey.