Original subtitles

[INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC PLAYING]

This is a subject that we don't talk about a lot.

And I'm calling it crossing the line.

And crossing the line means where

the line is between homage, inspiration, and plagiarism.

And you may think it's simple, but it's not.

I was just talking with the composer, John Powell,

yesterday about one of his scores and, like,

how I thought it was just so incredibly effective.

And he says, well, of course, you know,

you know that kind of came from a Schubert symphony.

I go, no, it didn't.

In your mind, it came from Schubert.

But I know what you're talking about.

And it's not that.

It was inspired by that.

That gave you a feel.

It gave you a thought.

And you turned it into something absolutely yours.

And it's something that I've heard imitated about 20,

30 times since you did that.

And that piece was for "Bourne Identity."

So there is a case where it's inspiration.

But there's a much bigger issue with crossing the line.

And here's where I learned it.

Context is everything.

I was doing my first film, "Pee-wee's Big Adventure."

Pee-wee walks out with a cowboy hat, Western suit,

and a pair of guns.

And I go, doodle ooh, with an ocarina kind of a sound.

And Danny Gold, who was the head of the music

department at that time and all the library and everything.

He took me aside.

He goes, you can't do that.

I go, oh, no, isn't there this rule

that if you don't use more than a certain number of notes

from something, because there was

this common school of thought that you're

allowed to use one bar or two bars

or five notes or eight notes from something else

and then go somewhere else after those number of notes.

And you're okay.

It's not plagiarism.

He goes, doesn't exist.

It's a absolute nonexistent thing--

got a lot of people seem to think exists.

It's all about context.

If you were doing a scene and explains it

to me in detail where Pee-wee opens a door.

And there's some clowns in there.

And you use as a sound-- do, doo, loo, because I was said,

I'm not doing, doo, doo, doo.

That's Morricone.

And he goes, no.

It's like, in a different kind of scene, you can go,

doodle do, do, do, do, with an ocarina, and it's fine.

But as soon as you see guns on a cowboy hat,

you can't even play the fucking ocarina.

He says he owns it.

That's it, period.

It's the context.

If you're trying to invoke a sound of another composer

over an image that is in the vein of what they're

conveying in the first place, don't do it.

You've lost the battle.

Now, let me start out by saying that when you get to plagiarism

problems, it totally depends on the composer

and if it goes to trial.

And I've been down that road.

It's hard, because if it goes ever in front of, like, a jury

of people deciding, no matter what it is,

it's a 50-50 chance.

I've had more than a dozen lawsuits

with "Edward Scissorhands" that goes all over the place--

the commercials, TV shows.

And I try to look at the context each time.

And I go, sometimes I hear, all right, that's Edward.

Clearly, they've changed some chords.

But it's a totally different context.

I'm going to let it go.

But if there's snow coming down, and I

start hearing "Edward Scissorhands,"

I'm going to go after you.

Everything you do, every simple theme, oh, my god, it

plagues me to no end when I come up with every--

there's no four-note or five-note theme

that doesn't remind you of something or many things.

There's no simple pattern that hasn't been done somewhere.

It's impossible to be 100% original with anything.

There's going to be a million other times where

something you do is going to sound something like something

somebody else does.

And it's going to be a very different context.

And it wasn't in the temp.

And you're going to go, hey, it's okay.

This happens.

I do it.

Other composers do it.

We all do it to a certain extent.

So I'll hear a little bit of "Batman" or Edward"

Scissorhands."

But the context of the movie is completely different.

And I'll know this couldn't have been in the temp.

This is the harmonic structure that the composer fell into.

It's very similar.

And I can hear it.

And some other people will hear it.

But let it go.

It's just a coincidence.

You're always going to have these things happen.

[INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC]

Pursuit of originality.

When you're starting out, you want to have your own identity

as a composer.

But inevitably in most cases, you're

going to be stuck with the contest of being totally

original or being totally yourself

and making a producer or director

happy with what you know they want,

which is something just like something else.

And as we're in the days where being derivative

is actually the thing that gets you hired,

it's like you've got to go to I want more jobs.

Or do I want to establish myself,

because each has an upside and a downside.

If you put off putting your own identity and stuff,

and you're starting to get a career,

and you're starting to get hired,

you might end up putting it off forever.

On the other hand, if you get really stubborn

about your originality, you're going

to take less projects if you want to be completely

original in the beginning.

You want to find a project where you can express yourself.

Now, I was lucky.

My first director was Tim Burton.

And he allowed me to find the originality in myself

and express it.

And for that, I'm very grateful.

Now, I have to ask myself, what if there

was no Tim Burton and somebody else asked me to do a film,

and it was a just a whole different kind of film--

a much straighter, straight and narrow film--

how would I have dealt with that?

And I don't know the answer.

Definitely, if you're able to, find something that stands out

as an original thing.

And people notice that you are going

to find a fast ticket to getting yourself more work quickly.

Now, getting typecast into a type of sound

could be a problem from down the line.

I've literally had a director tell me, ah,

it's not quite there.

I need you to be more Danny Elfman.

And I had to interpret that, because he was telling that

to my face that I'm not Danny Elfman enough.

Now, clearly, he knew that I was Danny Elfman.

But I wasn't Danny Elfman enough for him.

So I have to go, what part of me is he looking for specifically

that's not delivering enough?

Is it this score or this score or this score?

But that's a problem you face down the line.

And believe me, it's a good problem to face.

You're going to face a million problems.

That's the best of the problems you're

going to face is that you've come so identified

with certain sounds that you yourself have trouble

delivering it well enough, because others have actually

gotten as good or better than you at delivering whatever it

is that you brought to gave birth to

and brought into the world.

I tend to twist things around.

And things were a little clunky.

And that's part of my style.

There's an awkwardness to the way I write.

Frequently that's part of me.

And I've never tried to correct it because I think it's okay.

Bernard Herrmann frequently in certain scores

had kind of a weird awkwardness as did Morricone

as did many composers that I love.

So I don't think certain types of flaws

are okay to not smooth out the edges of your style.

But then I'll hear other composers

doing it flawlessly and perfect.

And it's like, wow, I don't want to do that again,

because they're better at it than I am right now.

But again, if you're starting out,

I hope you're lucky enough to have that be your problem.

But you're going to have to face a lot of other things first.