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Thank you for doing this.
I'm amazed.
I never thought I would speak to anyone around Zelensky, and I know you're doing
this at some great risk to yourself, so thank you very much. So you were
President Zelensky's press secretary.
Yes. First of all, thank you for having me, and I never expected to see myself
here talking about my former boss, Volodymyr Zelensky.
I used to work for him for two years, since 2019 until 2021.
How did you wind up working for him?
Well, Volodymyr Zelenskyy announced the job via Facebook and everybody started
applying. And I didn't want to apply first because I thought he would take
someone, you know, nepotically.
But there was an open application and I won through 4 ,000 of applicants.
It's not a joke.
And then, actually, I need to prove myself that I can do a job and that he
trust me. But, yeah, we found the common ground. And I think I was very faithful
towards him, you know.
And I supported him. And I supported him in 2022 when Russia
made its large -scale invasion.
As millions of Ukrainians, I was grateful that he stayed in the country.
That's why it's so...
So strange and desperate for me to be here and to talk who he really is. I
have personal vendetta, but I believe that he is one of the biggest obstacles
towards peace today. So I wanted to tell the people who he is.
Who is he?
First of all, he's not a person whom you see on camera.
He's a very different person. He changes masks all the time. He is emotionally
uncontrollable.
Emotionally uncontrollable. Yeah, he doesn't control his emotions. He's often
hysterical and he thinks that every person is disposable.
He doesn't have empathy that he plays.
He's absolutely insanely great actor.
And that brought us a lot of support in 2022.
But his acting doesn't have any substance and everything that he's
It's so detached from the reality.
The majority of the things that he's saying, it's either manipulation or it's
fact that is being taken from the context or it's pure lies.
And millions of people still believe that supporting Zelensky means
Ukraine. But today it's different.
Tucker, I would like to say I'm not here to justify Russian invasion. I'm not
here to justify Putin.
What Russian army is doing in Ukraine equals crimes against humanity.
Yes. But this war is not black and white anymore.
It's dark and even darker.
We just see Putin as an evil, but Zelensky is also an evil.
He's just a hidden one. He plays such a teddy bear, you know, on camera. But
then when the light goes off, he's a grizzly bear and he destroys the people.
It's almost surreal to recollect that almost every Western leader and Western
delegations that were coming to Ukraine before the war, they treated Zelensky as
a political novice. They saw he was low educated, unqualified and low depth.
But then overnight, he just turned into this great face of democracy.
But it feels like the West created the myth, fell into it, and the
West keeps ignoring the fact that beneath Zelensky's rhetoric,
heroic rhetoric, he keeps accumulating power.
And I'm not afraid to say he keeps hollowing the very same people he claims
save.
It's pretty strong to say, I know that.
But I believe that people need to understand that if you want to support
Ukraine, the only way to support Ukraine today is to push for the peace deal.
This is the only way that Ukraine can survive because I believe we are on the
verge of extinction.
Somebody is talking about two, three years of war anymore.
It just like doesn't come up with numbers, with demography, with anything,
all the suffering that's happening in the country.
No,
no, thank you. Thank you for saying that. I agree. I'm not Ukrainian.
I don't understand the point of this. I mean, I have many questions about how
and why it started.
But what's beyond question is Ukraine as a nation is being eliminated. That's
obvious to me. Biggest country in Europe. So it's a big deal.
What are, since you mentioned numbers, how many people live in Ukraine?
So when you started working for Zelensky, you worked for the government
Ukraine in 2019. How many Ukrainians were there in Ukraine?
So officially, Ukraine is the country of 40 -42 million people. But we had the
last census, I think, in 2000 or 2001, and we did not manage to organize
one. So when I was working for the government, government officials,
Zelensky, were telling the numbers that they believed there are 34 -37 million
Ukrainians in the country.
Now, with around 10 plus million of Ukrainians turning into refugees, going
the West, some stay in occupation, you know, Eastern countries, and even some
Russia, perhaps there are around 25 million Ukrainians in the country. And
worst thing is that 11 million of them are retired people.
And these retired people live for the pensions from 75 to...
$180 to $100 per month.
And Ukraine is not that super cheap country where you can actually survive
this money.
Just two weeks or three weeks ago, there was a terrible story when one director,
movie director of Ukraine, who was a retired person, died at his home.
And his neighbor wrote that he died from hunger and cold.
There were the severe temperatures in Ukraine and he didn't have anyone to
him. I just like wonder if ever we will know the statistics, how many people
died from this cold and from having no opportunities to survive. You're saying
that the Ukraine right now has maybe 15 million, maybe
fewer working people working.
People actually who are working in the entire country. Well, you don't count
children. Children are not working, right? So I don't know how many children
under 18 are there.
But perhaps if we have around 10 million working people, that would be fine.
Wow, that's amazing.
Yes. How many have died in the war, do you know?
The numbers are very different and it's very difficult to count. Right now, the
official UN verified statistics is around 15 ,000 of civilians.
The numbers of those who turned into military are not known.
So it's very hard to know. But only in Mariupol it is known that there are
graves for around 20 ,000 of Ukrainians. So I guess there are at least hundreds
of thousands of those who died, and we will just never know the numbers.
I'm sorry, it's so painful to talk about.
Well, it's absolutely awful. But I'm wondering why, well, my government,
has funded a lot of this war, why we can't get a straight answer from the U
government. from the Ukrainian government, the Russian government.
I mean, no one seems to have an interest in finding out the real number of dead.
Yes. Well, it's very difficult to do because how do you do this in
right? There is no any relation with that side that would allow to learn this
information. And the other side, which is Russian side, obviously is interested
in hiding the numbers, right? Yes. I don't believe in verified numbers.
And obviously...
Look, many people who are military now, they used to be just ordinary civilians,
right? Engineers, IT guys, journalists working their everyday life, and then
they turned into military.
So, of course, they are soldiers, but they are also people, right? And they
dying.
And there are a lot of these things I've heard from the front lines when a
person was killed and the body is brought and he has a bullet in his head.
The government officials, you know, local officials just don't want to put
as a dad from the front line. So they say he died from a heart attack, for
instance. Yeah, it's war.
And I think it was happening in every war.
It's just like, I think we will never know the true number, but there are so
many people who are suffering there.
And, you know, I told you this terrible story about retired people and that they
live for such.
Absolutely outrageously low pensions.
Just when I talk about Zelensky, I'm an insider.
I talk to so many people who used to work for him or even those people who
for him.
And to be clear,
I believe that he stands behind many schemes of money laundering.
And one of the stories is that I have a friend who was shortlisted for the
position of the Ministry of Social Policies during the light -scale
And he was called and he said that he was one of five candidates.
And he would be interviewed by Zelensky and Mr. Yermak, then chief of staff of
President Zelensky. And he was told that during the interview, he would need to
come up with the schemes of money laundering so that they are financed
Ministry of Social Policy.
And Ministry of Social Policy is the ministry that is responsible for
So when we're talking about those poor pensioners, you know, and knowing the
fact that Zelensky himself approves the schemes of money laundering, I mean, is
he guilty? I want your audience to respond to that, okay?
Do you understand the desperation of mine?
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I think most people watching assume that Ukraine is corrupt and has been for a
long time and that the Zelensky regime is especially corrupt. I think Americans
believe that. But there's almost no evidence that has come out in the
press. The American media has not written very much about his corruption.
you think that is?
You know, I saw good pieces about corruption, but you're right that there
not too many of them. It's very hard, first of all, to prove it.
I think there was also some kind of agreement, not official one, right?
Unofficial agreement that we all need to support Zelensky because this means to
support Ukraine.
We're all united, you know, to support Ukraine. But Zelensky abused this
unity. He abused our belief in democracy. He abused our fight.
He abused our sacrifice.
Ukrainian sacrifice and what the Europeans and Americans were doing for
abused, actually, the trust of so many people.
I believe that, you know, millions who still support Zelensky, they were, you
know, looking for some great guy in politics. They wanted to believe that
is someone, you know, Churchill or whatever, a historic guy who would
something good for the people. And Zelensky is an amazing actor.
He's going to give... you what you want exactly and that's that's what's
happening he still plays on camera this great guy but believe me behind the
camera he's very different i was working for two years for two years this guy
was repeating two phrases which are very vocal about him one of them he was
saying ukraine is not ready for democracy and this is a quote another
dictatorship is an order So how on earth a person who believes that Ukraine is
not ready for democracy and that dictatorship is an order actually can be
face of democracy?
Someone who's canceled elections, who's not actually elected president, I
couldn't agree more. So what in 2019, 2020, 2021, what
was Zelensky saying about Russia?
Zelensky came to the presidency as the president of peace.
Yes. During his electoral... We've seen this before.
Oh, yeah.
He's the guy who made himself in Russia. The first biggest money he made was in
Russia, millions of dollars.
He was working for Russian propaganda channels, and he was fine with that.
Furthermore... He was?
Of course, he made all his career, tens of years. He was everywhere in Moscow.
By the way, when the first Russian invasion in Donbass happened and Russia
annexed Crimea, he was spending time in Russia.
He was finishing his movie, for which he got a lot of money, and he even
recognized this in August 2019.
I think he wrote, yes, I was in Russia. I was finishing the movie. It was 2014.
The war was going on.
Furthermore, I'm writing a book right now. And it's a different book. It's a
book about real Zelensky. And I learned a lot of facts and talked to a lot of
people.
And this information was nowhere.
But it happened that he had several properties in Crimea.
And when the war was happening in Donbass already, he was spending time in
Crimea having weed with...
I mean, Marijuana, with his friends from 95th Quartal and making facilities
there and enjoying time.
And he didn't care that Russia annexed Crimea already. While it was Russian
-controlled? Yes, it was under Russian control. He was vacationing in Russian
-controlled Crimea? Yes.
It was May 2014. I talked to a person who was working for him, a person who
helping him put the windows into the house, and a person was telling
details about how Zelensky was behaving.
So everything that Zelensky is saying is really...
is really very different truth, you know, very different truth.
So he was the peace candidate. He came promising that he would stand on his
knees in front of Putin and beg Putin to stop.
That's what he was promising.
He was saying that Ukrainian and Russian languages are...
both languages that need to exist, that people speak both languages and, you
know, it makes people stronger, that we need to be friends with Russia.
He was saying all this stuff and that's why people voted for him. They didn't
want war.
Nobody wants war. There is nothing good in war.
And now he totally adopted some nationalist ideology that is not natural
Ukrainians.
And he really plays it well. And what what happened? How did I mean,
most people in the United States were not paying attention. Yeah.
And we sort of look up to the TV and there's Joe Biden's vice president
Harris at the Munich Security Conference in January 2022 with Zelensky saying
you need to join NATO. And he says, great.
That's not the behavior of someone who wants to avoid war.
You know, one thing is that he has been escalating the rhetoric. Another thing,
you know, I was present at his meeting with Vladimir Putin in 2019 in Paris.
There were very few people near him who knew the truth.
He had private conversation with Putin where he promised Putin that Ukraine
never join NATO.
In 2019?
Yes, it was December 2019 and there was a personal conversation.
There were very few people know what he promised.
He said no NATO because...
Ukraine was never close to NATO.
For being a part of NATO, first of all, we need to have a market economy and be
a reformed country.
It's not like Trump doesn't want Ukraine in NATO, or Biden doesn't want Ukraine.
It's not about names.
It's like we're not ready for NATO. There is no consensus to be NATO.
It's imagination.
It's lies.
He stick to this fact of joining NATO, knowing that it's impossible.
He was pushing the impossible agenda and making it a condition for peace.
In October 2024, he presented to the Parliament victory plan, and he said
joining NATO is the most important thing, and long -range missiles for
are the most important thing.
And he made this victory plan.
But it's ridiculous.
It's impossible.
And look how he uses it. He uses impossible things to justify his own
and actually creating his hero image.
For instance, remember after he left Donald Trump, he said, it's not so easy
get rid of me. He said this to the journalists.
If Ukraine is taken to NATO, I'm ready to step down, knowing that Ukraine is
going to be taken to NATO. So it's very easy to promise something under the
condition of impossible things. Yes. Right?
That's what he is doing.
So this is one thing.
What changed? The second thing, if I can... Oh, of course.
One of the most shocking moments for me personally and for communications team
in 2019 -2020 was he was really scared that
his rating started dropping down.
And he was sure that communications team was guilty in that.
He thought it was your fault.
Not mine, but all communications people, but I was, you know, they are the part
of the team.
And he gathered us and he started saying that there are no positive news about
what he is doing in the country.
And my colleague started arguing with the president very diplomatically. But
was saying, look, there are no so many positive things that are happening.
You're promising something, but it doesn't happen.
She was, of course, very diplomatic. She didn't say it like that, but that was
the thought. And he said, it doesn't matter what's happening.
The most important thing, we need 1 ,000 of talking heads.
And if 1 ,000 of talking heads tell positive things, then positive things
happening, that people believe that there are positive things.
And she kept arguing, and she brought a very good example.
She said there was a group of internally displaced people from Donbass, families
who lost homes, and Zelensky promised them apartments.
And we don't speak about thousands or hundreds. There were like 10 apartments
something like this.
And nobody took care about that. So he promised the families were waiting.
Nobody took care about that.
So she said, if there are no those apartments, people will know that there
no apartments. It doesn't matter how many talking heads will say that there
apartments, right?
And he said, no.
If talking heads, thousand people tell you that this is happening, then this is
happening.
So she continued to argue and he became very irritated.
And he put his hands like this, what he was doing. He leaned to the table. He
looked at us, and he said in a very irritated tone,
I need Goebbels propaganda if you want. I need Goebbels propaganda.
I need thousands of talking heads of Goebbels propaganda.
Meaning Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi propagandist. Yes, that was Major
propagandist. And we were like so shocked. We stopped breathing.
But, okay, the thing is that I believe what happened in 2022, he's got his
thousands of talking heads globally, right?
And many of us were not supposed to be his heads. We were standing for
the country. We believed that he would stop the war soon, that we
needed to be united. We believed in that.
And four years later, Ukrainians don't believe in Zelensky's agenda anymore.
still, there are thousands of talking heads.
And many of them just get paid for that, you know.
Who do they get paid by?
Oh, different stuff. For instance, if they are asked to the conferences for
moderation or for writing positive message, it's called positive message
Ukraine.
Some oligarchs can pay or...
You know, it goes from grants or something like this. In Ukraine,
experts get paid from the structures that are close to the government. Those
the biggest patriots or, you know, grants from European Union, for
And, you know, I'm not saying that these people are bad.
No, they are not.
In many ways, they just not are aware what's happening.
They're talking to each other or to some experts or to the government. They
still believe in the legend that Zelensky has some ratings.
And by the way, just a week ago, I was talking to insider from the office of
president. And again, I was working for the office of the president. I know
there are different ratings.
Ratings that are closed just for the eyes of the president and few in the
And ratings that are presented to the public,
right? And the insider from politics who saw the rating said that Zelensky is
non -electable. His ratings are so low.
I was looking at those ratings in 2023 and 2024 every month, and his ratings
were very, very low, getting lower and lower and lower.
And here is another big revelation for you.
When Donald Trump went out and named Zelensky a dictator, and when he was
talking about low ratings of Zelensky, of course, Zelensky said that Donald
Trump is influenced by Russians, and this is all Russian propaganda, and
Trump was called pro -Russian as every critic of Zelensky.
But in fact, Donald Trump got information from a lot of Ukrainians.
These are former government officials and even current government officials.
These are people who close to President Zelensky. They provided evidence,
documents, witnesses, what they knew, everything.
Because when Donald Trump came to power for the second term, so many Ukrainians
hoped and still hope that he will help achieve peace.
I hope so, too.
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What was Zelensky's relationship? I'm so angry now.
It's okay.
You have every reason to be.
You have every reason to be. It's your country.
I can't even imagine, actually.
You can't.
No, I can't. I hope I never have to see anything like that here.
What was Zelensky's relationship like with Joe Biden?
Oh.
So there is a very good American journalist who wrote a book and he
that relationship. But I also met him and he told me in private conversation
that Biden was thinking that Zelensky was emotionally manipulative.
When I was there, he also described in the book that Zelensky thought that
was weak.
When I was there, Zelensky had several interviews to push Biden for some
And I remember that I met one American diplomat. He was pissed off with this
interview. He was shouting at me so, so much. And it was a party.
And I was not the organizer.
Mr. Yermak was an organizer.
And the diplomat knew he's just so pissed off that he couldn't stop
And he shouted that that interview was...
kind of either stupid or unprofessional and it shouldn't be like that.
When I was leaving and I resigned, there are boards who are spreading the rumor
that I was fired because I worked for Russia. This is not true.
We departed on good terms. Zelensky thanked me. He wished me good luck.
They wanted me to continue as an advisor to the office. So we departed in good
terms.
The thing is that
And Zelensky actually was destroying relations with multiple actors in the
including with the United States.
And one of the things was that since 2020 till 2021 for a
year, there was a reform agenda.
And Zelensky literally was destroying every reform. And it was happening like
one by one. And that was disastrous.
What kind of reforms?
What kind of reforms?
So there was an agreement with the IMF in 2020.
Ukraine was often on the verge of default, and we needed money.
And obviously, IMF doesn't provide you money for free. So there was like 10 or
12 positions of the reforms that needed to be done.
really did a miraculous job with two of the most difficult reforms. He pressed
the parliament to vote for them, which actually means that he could go through
this agenda, difficult agenda, and push for the reforms. He just didn't want to.
As soon as two reforms were pushed through, the IMF approved $5 .5 billion.
And I remember I was present at the conversation between Zelensky and
Georgieva. They spoke in Russian because Kristalina Georgieva is Bulgarian. And
they had such trust and understanding, you know. But as soon as the money came
through, and the first tranche was 2 .1 billion, more than they wanted to give
at the beginning, in a few days, Zelensky violated the first reform.
He fired, by political reasons, the head of the National Bank.
And it was a big scandal.
Khrushchev called back and she never spoke in Russian to Zelensky anymore
because she was undermined. She promised to the boat that he was a reliable man,
that he agreed for reforms, that he proved that he could push reforms
And then suddenly, as soon as he gets first money, he fires the head of the
National Bank.
And the head of the National Bank said that he was fired via political
And, you know, that was a scandal.
The landscape explained her this. He said, there will be another independent
head of the National Bank, but he will just be our
head of National Bank. He will be professional and independent, but
he will be coming from us.
He even doesn't understand what he's saying, right? It's hilarious.
Do you understand me? I do, I do. Okay, so then after that, there was...
justice reform.
There was a scandal in the courts.
Then there was another, another, another, like every reform. And the last
that was really blowing up, it was corporate reform.
Actually, the reform that was needed to be destroyed to make corruption.
So, the United States helped Ukraine to establish the corporate reform as in the
United States. There is the board of independent people who look...
how actually the state enterprises are working and looking so that there is no
corruption there.
There is a big Ukrainian oil and gas company, Naftogaz in Ukraine, and
just dismissed the independent boards and put his own people there.
Yeah, this is something that hasn't been public, but we were talking to anti
-corruption activists and there was money laundering at some point from
Naftogaz. So Zelensky just wanted to turn this state oil and gas company in
Russian gas from.
So when there is your own person there and there are dark offices and the money
is laundered from there. And that's when the United States was so pissed off
that they did not prolong.
the sanctions against Nord Stream.
I'm going really deep here. I don't know if your audience is going to
understand everything, but Nord Stream was a pipeline that Russia was
building to bring its own gas to the European Union, and it was sanctioned by
the United States.
And so when Ukraine, when President Zelensky was actually violating all the
reforms that he had agreed with the United States, at some point Biden's
administration was so pissed off that they decided to allow Russia to finish
this Nord Stream pipeline.
Does it make sense?
It does. And then they blew it up in the end anyway.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Is Zelensky himself corrupt?
So there was one minister.
I don't name the people, okay?
He had good connections with the United States, and that's why Zelensky
appreciated him.
And there was this absolutely ridiculous story that, you know, Ukrainian
ministries get very low salaries, like $12 ,000 per year.
Yeah. That's why there is corruption there, right? Yes.
And he said, look, I don't need much, but I will need like $5 ,000 per month,
$60 ,000 per year. Yep.
You know, really didn't want much, but that would guarantee that he did not
corruption.
Zelensky, of course, promised him in his first interview and obviously did not
do anything for that. So the minister just started writing himself premium
bonuses.
And opposition was attacking him like, oh, my God, $5 ,000 per month for the
minister. That was such a scandal. You know, Zelensky obviously didn't like
that.
So when the first government was dismissed, this guy was invited, and
said, look, I like how you work, you have good relations with the West, maybe
you want to continue in the other government.
But you cannot have $5 ,000 of official salary because it causes so much
scandal.
And when the guy entered the room, there was President Zelensky here, Mr. Yermak
here, and another person whom I know here, and there was a bag of dollars on
their table.
And the guy said, I can't give you $5 ,000 of official salary, but I will be
giving you $5 ,000 of money every month.
So you can get your salary, but it's not going to be official, okay?
Which means if Zelensky knows it, it's not corruption.
Of course.
You see?
Do you think Zelensky and his family have gotten rich since the war began?
They have always been rich. He's playing this poor guy in his cheap...
sweater. He is rich, obviously.
Look, I don't know where the money goes, but I was meeting one veteran of
politics who has known Zelensky for dozens of years.
And the first thing he asks me, where is the money?
What?
He's like, I know Zelensky for many years. He has never lifted a finger for
free. He would never do anything for free.
So, you know, I'm not a law enforcement. It's something for the law enforcement
to prove. But I've just told you already two stories, right?
There was another story from another minister who just called us recently.
he said when he was on the position, those very close
people to Zelensky were actually taking percentage from some governmental
programs. I mean, illegal percentage.
Yes. And he told Zelensky that they are taking really too much already, like
really they are insisting on very big amounts.
And Zelensky smiled and said, good job, guys, good job, guys.
And he was not joking. The minister says he was not joking. He was really happy
it was happening.
And then the minister thought, oh, we are not going far with this.
Yeah, he resigned later.
Now in the government, there are very few people who are professionals. They
there, but very few.
Mostly the landscape with the loyalists who will never say no and who create the
agenda that absolutely is out of mind.
He just wants something, like if he is writing his script, you know, of the
servant of the people, and then he just...
Once he demands this and people go and, you know, they just make up some reports
and he goes with this report and says that this is true.
This is how it works, unfortunately. He's a PR guy and PR, only PR.
He's not the guy of substance.
Who does he listen to? Who are his advisors?
Yermak, you said, was the chief of staff for years. I don't know that he still
is, but he's identified in the West as Zelensky's closest.
friend and advisor. Is that true? And who is Yermak?
Mr. Yermak started his career at the strip club long ago. Yeah, like not
stripper, but as a lawyer.
At a strip club?
Yes, that was a strip club where there were a lot of those people who later
would become politicians in the pro -Russian party.
And he was a lawyer there. And I was talking to his first employee of the
Mike, and his first employee said he had so many ambitions and he had no
absolutely talent for those ambitions.
That's just, you know, a quote.
Yeah, so he started like that and he met there a lot of people who would later
join into politics.
At the strip club?
Yeah, it was a very famous strip club.
It was 90s, I think, or early 2000s. Then he was working for a
store of luxury brands that mostly are brought, not officially,
we are smuggling.
And that's where he also met a lot of rich people, oligarchs. And 95th Quartal
is also buying clothes there.
So officially, Mr. Remak says that he was a lawyer at one of the biggest
Ukrainian channels. And that's where he met Zelensky. He used to be a general
producer of that channel. But I'm not sure where they met.
So it's possible that they just met through, you know.
some other entertaining stories.
Yermak also made some movies about smuggling, which is very symbolic for me
since he used to work in that business.
He was involved in some dark affairs of mafia stuff on the level of Kiev city.
And that's how, you know, he knew a lot of politicians and from the point of
view of not politics, but how the things can be done.
he could be helpful to Zelensky.
Their relation was very strange, very different, very difficult, very strange.
Yermak knows that he is personally a narcissist, and he knows that Zelensky
narcissist, and these are two malign and paranoid narcissists. Oh my God, what
I'm saying, but that's true.
Yermak and Zelensky are both malign narcissists.
Jermak and Zelensky are both malignant and very paranoid narcissists who are
both on defensive mode.
They're both paranoid.
Jermak more.
How paranoid?
Oh, Jermak, he just creates the stuff from nowhere.
He's just like, you don't need to do anything while he can come up with
something. I don't know.
It's really some kind of a sick mind to be frank.
It was some kind of a symbiote.
And Zelensky had the vision and Yermak had the tools to implement the vision.
It was not about politics or policies.
It was more about what they wanted for themselves.
It's important to say that sometimes Zelensky didn't know how to make what he
wanted, how to make it work.
So he was just saying the desires and Yermak was finding the way.
And often it was happening that Zelensky then says to do this, but Yermak calls
and say, don't do this because he's all doing this in this way.
And in general, that was so chaotic.
Like no professional could work there. I'm saying that it's... not possible
because they're just like keeping saying different things, keeping changing the
strategies, keeping changing the moods, keeping changing everything all the
time. And they create this feeling that there is so much work and everybody
works, works, works, but nothing is done.
Sounds awful.
It's really strange, but I'm not the one who knows that.
What do you think Zelensky wanted?
What were his goals?
Well, I definitely know that he thought he came forever.
His first chief of staff said it once.
He laughed to the minister and said, we came forever.
So he liked being the dictator?
Well, he is a dictator.
The borders are closed now for four years. It's illegal.
The human rights violation is enormous.
The persecution of the people.
In 2024, when Donald Trump came to power, there was a member of parliament
wrote on Telegram, Zelensky, now we need to stop this war.
And yes, you will lose the next elections, but stop this war.
Like Trump will push you to stop this war.
And he was in jail in three days. He's still in jail.
Really? Yeah. And I talked to security services and they said he never talked
Russia.
Since 2021, no connection, but he is accused in treason.
And there are a lot of people who are, people are persecuted.
Obviously, there are dirty campaigns.
Everyone who criticizes Zelensky is just...
Pro -Russian, Russian, pro -Kremlin.
You're pro -Kremlin. I will be pro -Kremlin after this interview.
You know, I believe that American special services do their job well. And
there were any pro -Kremlin payments or contacts, obviously they would know
that, right?
Yeah, so in general, this is it. But, you know, for me personally,
the situation in the country is inhuman.
I never would think that my country would be the one where people are
the streets and forced to the front lines. I never would think that we all
and stay silent to the fact that Zelensky uses front line as the
He uses the war as a punishment?
Front line, yeah.
He even was open about that. He was saying if somebody does something bad,
need to punish them and send to the front line.
That was his statement.
But there are people who were sent there just because they're critics of
Zelensky. Do you know anyone who's been sent for criticizing Zelensky?
There were people from the security services who were sent publicly, and
were a few people who were sent there.
What's it like, the front line?
There are different front lines. Some people find front line in a cozy place,
just wearing the uniform and playing the role of some bloggers. But I know
people who survived when their units were killed.
It's terrifying.
My mother was treating soldiers who were sent in bad uniforms during winter to
another side.
Their fingers and limbs were cut off because they were frozen.
Every year Ukrainians are collecting money for their uniforms, you know,
necessary stuff. Women are cooking food for the soldiers.
No, I'm not kidding. There are a lot of volunteers. But the West has sent
hundreds of billions of dollars and they don't have gloves or food?
Well, some of them have food. Some of them are looking for more, you know.
And yeah, usually people are collecting even money for weapons or for starlings.
What about all the hundreds of billions from the West? Yeah, you need to track
it. You need to track it. But look, there is a scandal right now in Ukraine
the Minister of Energy was fired and it is now known that he helped money
laundry $112 million.
$112 million.
And those money should have been used for the shield for energy sector.
And it's a huge scandal in Ukraine.
There is proven stuff by the law enforcement. And behind the whole scheme
guy who worked with Russian mafia.
That's amazing.
You should go and look into it. But there is the whole scheme with the
companies, with the names behind.
And the Minister of Energy himself got $12 million for this. So it's around
And 10 % is usually paid for those who help establish the scheme, right?
So where is the 90 %?
That is the question.
I know I've said this before, but I'm amazed that more people from Zelensky's
government haven't come forward to say this in the West, in English.
Why is that?
Because people are afraid.
What are they afraid of? On Netflix, there is a movie, a series, How to
Tyrant.
I didn't know about that unless one governmental official came to me and
watched that series.
It's what's happening in the country.
And it was before the war.
I mean, light -scale war.
Everyone is afraid.
Zelensky has no limits.
That's the problem. I'm sitting here because I know that he is in a weak
today. And I know that there are a lot of people in his government and in his
vertical of power who want peace.
And I didn't want to put shit on him. I'm sitting here because I want peace
And this guy is going to come up with any condition. He's going to change the
positions all the time just to prolong this war and to get more money.
He doesn't want to have political suicide.
Finishing war for him is a political suicide. You see? I do.
So I'm sitting here having this belief that if he is furiously ordering
the people to arrange something against me, maybe in this vertical of power
would be people who will not agree now.
But even two years ago, they would do whatever he wants.
What do you think he would do to you for saying this, if he could?
Look, I'm risking everything. I cannot return to Ukraine after this interview,
okay?
I know people who get threats.
A month ago, there was a banker in Milan who fell out of the window.
In Milan?
Yes. Milan, Italy?
Yes.
And Italy is investigating it.
But there was one guy, a story that nobody paid attention to, who died when
Zelensky was traveling to Mr. Biden in September 2023.
The guy used to be a governor of my region, Kherson region, where I'm
from.
If you think about the governors, they are usually very rich, local, very
successful, strong people who have their people everywhere, have established
processes, have a lot of money.
It's very strange that he died behind garages by making suicide of poisoning
himself.
And I talked to one very deep insider and top position in security service.
the guy told me this is a very strange death because this guy was negotiating
with Russians.
He was getting his orders from Yermak, I know the middleman.
And then he was passing some information to Russians when Russians were
occupying Kherson and then back.
And then when Zelenskyy travels to Biden, this guy makes suicide.
Behind garages.
And security service explains that he had a depression.
He had depression.
He had depression.
A rich guy, strong guy, used to be a governor. He had depression and he
to poison himself.
Behind garages.
I mean, this all just doesn't come together. No, it doesn't. So people who
for Zelensky believe that if they were to criticize him, they could be killed.
Or jailed. Or jailed. I told you just about the member of parliament, but
are also those people who sit there for years, and the courts cannot, the
general prosecution cannot prove the guilt that they're accused in.
It's also treason, you know, collaboration with Russia.
How do you prove that?
Yeah,
and it's for criticism.
It's just, you know, political fight, nothing more.
What are jails like in Ukraine?
Oh, they're awful.
Oh, they're awful.
A lot of people in one place.
Now, by the way, there was the news that diseases are being spread. It's very
cold. The food is terrible.
It's a terrible place to be. It's not like an American jail, no.
It's a terrible place to be.
So Ukrainians can't speak up for fear of being imprisoned or killed?
But why do you think Western media hasn't spoken up?
Here, I would like to say the thing that the freedom of speech in Ukraine is in
bad shape.
But I believe that it improved when Donald Trump came to power for the
term, because there are more and more news coming up. And despite that, some
journalists are also sent to the front lines or attacked.
Still, you know, there are materials that are coming up.
And when this freezing winter was happening, terrible winter, when people
freezing their homes without light, without water, the whole
revolution on Instagram, Ukrainian Instagram started.
And I wanted to tell you two trends, just two of multiple trends that are
happening on Instagram right now that will show you that Ukrainians, of
suffering under Zelensky. They don't support what Zelensky is doing.
One of the trends is they are burning the books with Zelensky's speeches in
their fireplaces or fires, saying, huh, finally we figured out why we needed
those.
The second thing is very politically incorrect, and I'm very sorry. You're in
safe place, don't worry. Okay, I'm very sorry, but...
I try to describe the desperation and the dark humor that Ukrainians use.
A driver is parking on the parking lot for a place for a disabled
person. And another person is coming with a telephone asking, why did you
on the place for a disabled person?
And the driver responds,
I'm going to vote for Zelensky for the second time.
You mean mentally disabled? Yes.
So these are trends.
This is not like one real, two real. These are trends, and they're going
And this is the way how people are trying to shout out, we are desperate.
Please stop this war. Please stop this nonsense.
Please stop this autocracy.
There is no reason why to fight this war. It's senseless.
You see, people lost.
All sense of this war.
Like if this war is for NATO or against NATO expansion, then Ukraine has no
chances to be in NATO.
If Putin conducts this war against Zelensky, then Zelensky is the main
beneficiary of this war. If this war is for returning territories, then we have
been losing territories for three years.
If this war is for democracy, then we have no democracy in the country now.
People in the frontline regions, they tell terrible things.
One person told me, I don't know what we are fighting for. What's the difference
between Ukraine and Russia right now?
There is autocracy there and autocracy here.
There is no anything that would be democratic now. So what's the fight for?
This is not what I'm saying. This is what people from different regions are
saying. And I believe that Zelensky had two chances of finishing this war in
2022.
Two chances.
Now he says that 90 % of Ukrainians will not forgive him giving up the bus.
Where does he come from with these numbers?
Like, there are no such numbers.
Realistically, no such numbers.
And I was talking to people who represented Ukraine at negotiations in
in 2022.
Yes, the famous negotiations, where they came pretty close.
Oh, they were almost done, yeah.
And I was explained in details that they agreed for everything.
And furthermore, which is very important, they said that Zelensky
agreed to give away 10 plus.
And I was shocked.
At that moment, it was a shocking news. And I said, really? Did he?
And the guys told, of course he is. He is okay with that because he will stop
the horror of war.
He agreed for giving away the territory because that would mean the war is over.
And now he is standing in front of millions of audiences telling, I cannot
away Donbass.
You see, he is inconsistent.
He is changing the positions all the time.
The second time when he could and...
the office of the president planned he would finish the war, was the end of
2022. And as I read the New York Times, who actually confirmed my insights, that
the Biden administration decided to go with his plan to continue that war.
That was Mr. Blinken who was advising, you know, if Ukraine wants to fight,
Ukraine needs to fight, despite all the evidence that we could not win that war.
Of course not.
You know, there is this thing also, everything that is said against Zelensky
being pro -Russian.
And now, you know, this Mr. Johnson, Prime Minister Johnson thing. Boris
from the UK. Boris Johnson is a big friend of Zelensky. He's an evil man.
So...
Remember Bucha? Bucha is a small town in Kiev region and it was occupied by
Russia. And there are a lot of terrible things and terrible deaths happened
there. And Zelensky came to Bucha after it was deoccupied on April 4th, 2022.
And I remember him standing in front of the journalists and he had this, you
know, terrible face and terrible, terrible, you know, look.
It felt like he went through pain while seeing all those bodies there.
But he was asked if he was going to continue the negotiations in Russia.
And he said, yes, yes, I am going to continue.
That's fixed on a camera.
He was going to continue.
And then, you know, they had all the agreements by positions about Donbass,
about language, about many, many things. They agreed upon everything.
And then Boris Johnson came.
And now it is said that this is Putin's lies.
But this story was told by Ukrainians. It was not told by Russians.
Ukrainians who were trying to bring peace knew that Boris Johnson influenced
decision.
And Zelensky was promised to have everything.
Weapons, influence, fame, you know. And he will fight Russia and he will be a
great hero. And that's everything that Zelensky wants.
He doesn't care about people.
He cares about staying in power.
He cares about being the great hero in the history.
So I believe there were two moments where he could finish this war. But he
chose the war of attrition.
I don't know how 25 million of Ukrainians who stay in the country can
with attrition with Russia that has the population of 140 million people.
With Russia who, by the way, in four years has not even borrowed for this
And Ukraine has the debt of 100 % of GDP.
With Russia that awaits sanctions, still tries to sell, you know.
And Ukraine has no market economy.
I mean… Russia is so much bigger than Ukraine that Ukraine could never win.
just too big. Russia is too big.
You know, the New York Times wrote a story that was scandalous in 2023.
And the title was, Ukraine will need to choose between people and territories.
And we are indeed choosing.
And our leader is choosing territories. But it's not… I mean, look, I'm not an
expert at all on Eastern Europe. But I have Wikipedia.
I looked up land mass population, industrial capacity. You don't need that
information to know.
This country cannot beat that country in a land war.
It was obvious. I don't understand.
I think it's obvious for Zelensky too, but he thrives on this war. He thrives
this war. Why would he finish it?
Well, because it's destroying his country.
I don't think he...
He thinks about that.
In 2024, I was talking to a very smart guy who knows Russia and knows Ukraine
very well. He used to be an advisor to the president.
He's an American, by the way. And he said to me that Zelensky would finish
war until the end of 2024.
I said, no, he won't. He said, why?
He's losing territories. Russians will go to Dnipropetrovsk and other regions,
or Riga, Odessa, Kharkiv, Sumy, Chernihiv. He names all those regions of
Ukraine. And I'm like, this is not the reason for him to stop.
And the guy could not understand.
Like, he could not. He's like, but why?
You're going to lose the territories. You're going to lose more.
And I'm saying, this is not how he thinks.
He imagines the life, like, his thinking is limited with thinking of what he
sees, of his beautiful golden office, you know.
And the guy was like, okay, they're in Zaporizhzhia. I'm like, not a reason.
They're in Zaporizhzhia, not a reason. They're there, they're there.
And then the guy says, okay, there needs to be somewhere a point where he will
understand that Russians are winning.
Maybe when Russians are with the guns in his office, I'm like, yeah, that's
where he will understand. So it sounds like he doesn't care very much about
Ukraine. He never cared.
He never cared. He never cared about the people. That's the point.
I tried to come up not only with the insights. I think the things that I told
you are quite terrible, but this is who he is.
But let's just check the facts online, okay?
At the Munich conference, Zelensky insisted that ceasefire is the condition
peace, for negotiations and for elections.
He is keeping pushing for ceasefire, again, knowing that Russia is against
ceasefire. It's like the NATO story, right?
If you go online and check his speech for the UN General Assembly September
2024, he was saying that no ceasefire is possible, that it's very irresponsible
to ask Ukraine for a ceasefire, that a ceasefire will lead to a frozen
and he was going against a ceasefire all the time.
Then, second thing.
In June 2024, there was a peace summit where Ukraine presented Zelensky's peace
formula. There were 160 delegations coming from different countries.
And I truly believe that those delegations wanted to discuss peace.
There were discussions about energy security, returning children and
else.
And Switzerland suggested that they invite Russian delegation, maybe even
Vladimir Putin.
And office of the president was very much against it. And office of the
president of Ukraine even organized a media campaign saying that it is
absolutely morally impossible to talk to Russia, to Putin. We need just to
pressure no negotiations with Russia.
You see, at the same time, when he was presenting the formula of peace,
was organizing the Kursk region operation.
And how do actually you offer the world to have peace and at the same time are
planning operation to invade Kursk region?
These are very inconsistent things.
Then after his just formula, where he suggested one thing, he offered victory
plan, where he suggested completely different things.
Then in November 2024,
He said that he would agree for temporary occupation of some territories
another government -controlled territory of Ukraine will be included in NATO.
Then, in several days, he said that he was misinterpreted.
I'm telling you so many examples when he has been changing the conditions,
preconditions to end this war.
Because he doesn't want to end the war.
Because he doesn't want to end this war.
I counted with my insights around seven attempts.
to finish this war, where he used different mediators, he used different
countries. We promised those mediators, he promised those countries, those
leaders, that he would start negotiations, that he would agree for
and he always lied.
But I'm not giving him a pass.
I'm not making excuses for Zelensky.
But Ukraine has got 100 % debt -to -GDP ratio.
limited industrial capacity.
Like it can't fight a war without Western aid, period.
And so it's France, UK, United States that are paying for all this. Why would
the Western countries want to keep the war going? Obviously they do.
This is a very good question.
To be frank, I think that
the approach that Donald Trump's team offered is a very constructive approach.
In any way, Ukraine wouldn't survive without aid. But one thing is to plan
investment, right?
To boost businesses, to provide jobs, to pay taxes, to recover economy, and to
have returnings, right? And another one, just to provide the money for the war.
And I believe...
that the governments gave so much money and some of those governments, they just
cannot back up now.
They cannot say that we gave those money for a dictator because they're afraid
about their ratings and their own situation. Right now, some of the
were saying, Ukrainian members of parliament, that Ukraine was undermining
because of corruption.
Ukrainians are begging, please, just open your eyes. Help us stop this war.
It's not about your ratings. It's about people paying with blood.
Of course, but it sounds like that's not going to be possible as long as
Zelensky is there. The war won't end. I don't believe that he will finish this
war. No, it sounds like it. If there are seven attempts to finish the war and
his only position has been the war needs to continue, he's clearly not the guy
to end the war.
So how do you get Zelensky out?
That's a good question, and I'm not the one to answer it. Well, there are no
elections. But we are in a legal trap here.
And the last time when he was planning elections, he actually didn't want to
leave the martial law and wanted to have one round election so that he can
manufacture them. And this is the article on a very reliable Ukrainian
outlet. The journalist talked to insiders from the office and from the
parliament.
Just another example. Look, there was this Munich security conference and
Zelensky assaulted the prime minister of Hungary, Mr. Orban.
That's so interesting.
I'm saying so many bad things. I feel so bad about that.
But just like if you're a rational person, think about this.
Yes. The leader of Ukraine standing in front of... all the leaders and keeps
assaulting one of the European leaders.
In a week, this European leader will need to vote for a 90 billion loan for
Ukraine.
And obviously, Orban just blocked everything.
And everybody is like pointing fingers to Orban, how bad Orban is, how bad
is. Perhaps he is.
I'm not justifying Orban here.
But if you are a leader of a country, how on earth are you assaulting a person
from whom you will need a support of $90 billion of a loan, without which
Ukraine just cannot go further? So that's a great question. And I watch him
the same thing to Donald Trump.
Absolutely. So what is that? Can I finish this moment?
The thing is that the conflict that has escalated recently is about a pipeline,
oil pipeline.
Hungary was getting Russian oil through Ukraine, and it damaged.
And Zelensky made this, again, performance, huge performance, as if he
brave hero who is fighting against Russian oil, Russian gas, all Russian,
etc. At the same time, Ukraine on technical level is repairing the
The European Commission is insisting that we do it as fast as possible.
And Ukraine is sending the explanation to the European Commission. You know, it
will take some time, but we are offering you another pipeline so that there is
no energy crisis. So the work is there, right?
And Zelensky is just performing some stuff in his head.
And the other important moment in this, do you know that this was France, not
Hungary, who bought the biggest number of Russian energy products last year,
including Russian LNG that is selling to Germany. So why doesn't Zelensky go
against Macron? I don't understand that. Well, it's a great question. I'm aware
of this.
And Donald Trump.
You know, I was watching that thing, that oval office situation.
To me, it was so painful. It is so painful. Every time when I'm posting on
Twitter videos of ruined Ukrainian cities, every time I have this quote
from Zelensky, we've got beautiful cities, come and see.
I'm like, how you can say that this ruins?
are beautiful cities.
The thing is that many people who know Zelensky, they characterize the
that this is what's happening behind the camera usually.
Such hysterical behavior, no control of emotions, this
manipulation, attempts to prove himself. This is Zelensky. This is how he looks
all the time. Is he a drug user?
This is an open secret.
The thing is that I've never seen him taking drugs.
However, for writing my book, I met a lot of people who confirmed that they
him taking drugs in different clubs.
Only one saw him taking drugs in 2021.
I learned who is the supplier from 95th quartile.
And I met that person.
You met Zelensky's drug dealer?
I'm not saying he's a drug dealer. He's a guy from 95th Quartile.
What's 95th Quartile?
95th Quartile.
It's an entertaining company of Zelensky.
95th Quartile, where he comes from.
It's the guy who is an actor.
And he behaved really in a strange way. His eyes and his behavior.
Is Zelensky using cocaine?
Again, I have not seen that. So the thing is that all these people are
about cocaine.
Yes. The second thing is every time when we were preparing to...
the interview you know i was reading the notes explaining who is the journalist
what he needs to say the messaging the questions he does not like reading to be
frank usually he's more you know like tries to listen to you and then
he takes his like 15 minutes in the bathroom and i'm telling you that i was
always surprised
that he was going out a different person. Like really, always a different
person.
So you'd be briefing him.
Then he goes to the bathroom. He spends there 15 minutes and he's going out
energized, full of, you know, action, ready to say everything.
Sniffing.
So I don't want to say something that I didn't see. I understand.
But I met too many people.
I met... doctor I met you know people who spent time with him in the club
and I talked to the people who has been knowing him for like 20 -25 years
And they say he's a cocaine abuser. And also, I don't know if you followed that,
but there was an allegation, accusation that he's a cocaine user during his
electoral campaign. And that's why he invited his opponent, President
Poroshenko, at that moment to take analysis on drugs.
And he went to the clinics of his friends.
And when the analysis was presented, it happened that the analysis was dated by
different date when he gave those analysis.
That was a big scandal.
I mean, this is everywhere. The allegation is everywhere.
There are many people. For a long time.
For a long time, yeah.
And, you know, there is this very strange behavior, obviously.
You know, there are a lot of things that point out to it. But I personally have
not seen that.
But you spoke to his cocaine supplier from 95th quartile.
Not for the book. I met him in the office of the president.
I didn't know about cocaine back then, but I was very surprised at his
His eyes were sparkling, and he was so happy and
slow.
And he was trying to make some jokes that I didn't understand. I was like,
is a strange guy.
And I didn't know what he was doing there because he didn't have any
He just came to the office of the president.
What's Slensky's wife like?
You know, many people who know her respect her.
Many people...
We're saying that she was the only human who stayed nearby him.
She really didn't want him to go for the second term. She even said this
publicly.
But I believe she changed.
And I don't know if she still has that positive influence on him that she used
to have, but Zelensky never thought that women are equally important.
He is the one who respects his woman, but not as if she is really equal,
if it makes sense. It does.
Once I was in this very weird situation. I was in many weird situations with
Zelensky. It's just a norm.
But there was this situation where there was his friend from 95th Quartal and
Zelensky. There were three of us.
I don't know for which reason this guy started telling a very funny to his mind
situation that Olena Zelenska was running after Zelensky for eight years
him marry her.
And he was a strong guy. He didn't want to marry. Ha, ha, ha. It was so funny.
Well, definitely Zelensky was smiling a lot and he liked the story. I still
don't understand what was funny about that.
I think Zelenska is a smart person, but she does not care and doesn't know
anything about politics. And she doesn't want to be involved.
She tried to stay human.
I'm not sure what worked out.
When did you leave the country?
Ukraine. I would prefer not to talk about that. I stayed in the country in
We were shelled. By the way, when Russians were leaving Bucha, we were
It's just pure luck that he didn't hit the house we were.
My husband went to the front lines.
We stayed in 2023, majority of 2024,
beginning of 2025.
And I had so multiple sources that were saying that Zelensky is not going to
finish this war.
People are going crazy there. I was going crazy.
You're like in the closed cage.
You're being shelled and bombed. You can die any moment from Russian drone or
Russian missile.
At the same time, you can't do anything.
There are no economic opportunities.
There is no freedom of speech.
Anything you do can be treated in a different way. The country is full of
Everything is banned.
There are strange rules.
There is this very strange rule that all the cars need to
stop at 9 a .m. on the roads to listen to the hymn.
It's just, yeah, like if you drive and then there is 9 a .m. and there is
Ukrainian hymn, you need to stop for it.
There are really strange agenda and it looks like surreal.
The country, I don't recognize Ukraine anymore. Everything is banned?
What does that mean?
Like, he uses banned, like, there is this culture that he developed.
The culture of banning, cancelling people, artists, you know.
Churches. Poets, churches,
writers, you know, like.
Anything he can connect to Russia somehow.
Sometimes it doesn't have any connection to Russia.
It always makes us weaker.
Sometimes these are Ukrainians from the past. But yeah, they used to live under
like Russian Empire or the USSR.
There is this whole culture of cancellation.
He cancels bloggers, journalists.
Not personally.
But he has this tendency. He has this order.
Like for instance in... Late 2023, I learned from the security service that
Zelensky collected his guys and told them that they needed to go against
critical bloggers.
At the beginning of 2024, there were like purges of bloggers.
Bloggers were called to the security service, having conversations, why they
that, why they said that, that they will be accused of being pro -Russian. There
was a bunch of bloggers that went against the war, and they said, we don't
the borders of 1991, we want to stop this war. And all of them were called
security service.
One guy needed to leave the country, he was threatened.
You know, every story can become a bigger story, can become a story with
security service.
You see, it can become a story of treason. By the way, the cases of
multiple times in four years. Multiple times.
Treason is just another punishment. You see?
He sounds like a Bolshevik.
In many ways, it feels like it's the USSR that we read about.
In many ways, it is.
So, just to restate the question, is there any way to get rid of Zelensky?
That's a good thing.
You know, the problem, how to do this in a legal way,
and who is going to be next, who's going to fight with
Zelensky on the electoral field, and how to restore the electoral field in
general.
You see?
Yeah. And there are so many questions there that are not being solved at all,
and I'm not sure he wants to solve them.
So one big question to all the Ukrainians and Westerners who have
have the power, who are strong enough, is actually how to make it in the legal
field, how to finish this.
And that's the answer to your question, why are Ukrainians silent?
Rich people are afraid of being sanctioned. By the way, it's also a
instrument that Zelensky uses. He sanctions his own citizens, and it's
absolutely anti -constitutional.
How can you sanction your own citizens?
Yes, he uses, he sanctions his own citizens. That's pretty public on his
website.
For, I don't know, he comes up with the reasons.
Working for Russia or whatever.
And what happens when you're sanctioned?
And your businesses can be closed, your accounts frozen.
The former president is sanctioned. So he says he cannot use his money anymore.
So just to go back to something you said earlier that I should have followed up
on.
When you were working for Zelensky, he told Putin, I think you said it was
2019, that Ukraine would not join NATO.
Then you fast forward a couple of years, three years, and he's telling the world
that Ukraine does plan to join NATO, which you said is impossible.
But what do you think changed his mind? What changed?
Well, I definitely know that he wanted to influence the American
He really did want.
influence the American administration in what way? Yeah, I mean, he wanted to
get something.
He wanted to get some support, friendship, you know, to get something.
I remember the interview.
I remember whom that interview was given when he first said, why are we not in
NATO? So it was a TV interview and I was preparing messages.
It has never been in messages.
We never discussed that actually.
It was not at the table at all.
And he was sitting there and the journalist asked him, so what would you
ask Biden about?
And he said, why are not we in NATO?
And I started like looking at the messages and do you know that NATO
just came up with that.
And Zelensky is the kind of person, if you applaud, he's going to continue.
And there were lots of nationalists who applauded.
He thought, oh, that's great stuff. God, do it.
And so he saw the applause. He saw the reaction.
And since his ratings were dropping down, you know, and there was positive
feedback, he just started pushing through this agenda.
You know, again, I read the book about Biden and there was the description of
the meeting in 2021.
That was after I left a few months.
And it happened that Zelensky insisted on this NATO issue from Biden, thinking
that that was only Biden who was the obstacle to this. And if Biden said that
they will be NATO, he didn't want to listen to any arguments, any facts,
nothing. And then when Biden said, look, there is no consensus for that, the guy
said. But NATO is an outdated organization and it's going to fall
Germany and France are going to leave NATO now.
And as the journalist explains, even those who really liked
Zelensky, they were blown up by this. They thought he went too far. But this
you know, this is who is Zelensky. He's always escalating. He's always
demanding. He's always proving himself.
You know, I was talking to one guy who used to work under two or three
presidents, and he said to me that he's telling everyone that these two guys,
Zelensky and Yermak, they are just six -year -olds. He meant because they were
six years in power. Now they are seven -year -olds.
And I myself was thinking that they behave more as teenagers, but we never
arguments that they behave as adults.
You see?
So I believe that Zelensky...
If that journalist who wasn't inside at the White House says that Zelensky
thought Biden was weak, I believe Zelensky thought Biden is weak and he
pressure and get the NATO thing.
Because Zelensky actually doesn't have much understanding of how things are
working in his own government and globally.
Why are there so many Americans always in Ukraine? Always Americans in Ukraine.
Officials are always talking about Ukraine. No offense to Ukraine, but it's
very small country. It's a very big world.
But the U .S. government was very focused on Ukraine for a long time.
There were always journalists in and out of there, think tank people in and out
of there, U .S. military.
What was that?
Well, I think we are lucky that there are journalists there.
But it's a small country, you say, but it's comparatively big.
Well, it's a large landmass for sure, but so is Kazakhstan.
Oh, yeah. But in Europe, it's like the second biggest country in Europe.
Well, if you don't count Russia, it's the biggest.
And so I've never understood. You should ask Americans why they're there. Well,
I've never understood it. I mean, I think money laundering was part of it
sure. I think Americans, I mean, the former president's son was on the board
a Ukrainian energy company. Did you know that?
You know that I was also that very famous article about Hunter Biden. And
that, Biden's administration didn't give interview to The New York Times. And I
think that was a very infant behavior from the communications people. I was
a freelancer in Ukraine for six years after that.
the biggest Democratic president doesn't provide the interview to the biggest
Democratic media because of some freelancer, you know, having evidence
know, some connected topics. That's really ridiculous. I remember that
That was with Ken Vogel, I think. And Eula Mendel. Yep.
Who's you?
So for whatever it's worth, for those who don't remember the piece, can you
summarize it? Tell us what it was about, what it said.
It was long ago, but yeah, Hunter Biden was invited to be on board of energy
company that was owned by a big oligarch who is accused in money
laundering and, you know, big, big guy, really mafia guy. And there
was a general prosecutor who.
opened 11 criminal proceedings against this company, and Hunter Biden figured
somewhere that he was somewhere there.
But I was talking to a general prosecutor, and he told me that he
cases, but he could not prosecute Hunter Biden because Hunter Biden is an
American. And as Ukraine, we just cannot do that.
But that was the whole story about, you know, that Hunter Biden was on the
board.
And obviously it was not liked by the Biden administration very much.
And there was a huge scandal.
And I did just my job, you know. I talked to the general prosecutor. I went
different people. I asked the questions. I read and translated the law.
You know, I verified the information. I mean, Ken was doing a major job. I was
helping him.
And the New York Times stands for that piece.
So why should I be, you know, feeling bad about that? Well, I don't think you
should be at all. Yeah. What was your reaction from the Zelensky government to
you when that piece came out? Oh, first of all, that was a transition moment.
Yeah, I bet.
I'm sure it was.
He never actually reacted much.
It served more like a concern for him. He didn't understand much what was
happening. He just asked what was the buzz about. His people asked me. I said,
well, there was this piece, you know. I checked it. The New York Times stands
for that.
That's it.
So they had just the concern what was happening.
But it was 2019 before Biden came to power.
To be frank, yeah, I know that for Americans it's a big story about
For me as a Ukrainian, I still cannot understand what would have happened that
Biden administration would allow Zelensky to continue this war. I agree.
It's just like it's very hard to talk because you don't understand what's
happening really.
When people are being hunted by drones.
When people wake up to death and destruction, when they're being
they're being searched by law enforcement of their own country, when
have heat or light or water, when they have no almost money and they have no
help and they're not heard and they cannot leave the country, it's such a
And this has been happening for four years of a large scale and for many for
years.
And the only solution that is being presented today is just to say that
a monster.
Well, maybe he is.
His army is doing terrible things.
But here is the point.
Keeping just offending Putin will reach nothing.
And my point is we need to do something as the country. We need to do something
to start taking the decisions.
We need to start putting people first.
And what I see from Zelensky is just, yes, I'm taking care about the people.
Yes, people are first. And then always there is bots.
And after these bots, there is the whole bunch of misleading information.
I don't believe that President Zelensky is really very constructive, let's say
so.
I believe he has some kind of mental challenges.
And so when I'm thinking about his meeting with Biden, who has been proved
Alex Thompson and Jake Topper had really already mental problems, I'm thinking,
where did this world come to that there is one person leader with mental
challenges and another person with mental challenges?
actually deciding on the fate of the 40 million nation or 37 million nation. You
see?
I just don't believe that Ukraine is just being destroyed.
I believe that Ukraine is in the world of extinction.
We have huge brain drain and almost problems with the demography.
Do you know that that was the Ukrainian who actually...
made the program to send the first person to space, Yuri Gagarin.
Now children in Kharkiv region in the fourth grade cannot read.
You see, my nation is being deteriorating. Yes.
So there is no but in this case. People either go first, or they go first and
then but, but, but, but, but, a lot of conditions, why not to stop this all?
And you ask me why all this?
think tankers and journalists come to ukraine i think they come to every
and they were interested in the relations with russia but unfortunately
this i think
Absolutely destructive contribution to very unhealthy nationalism that has
become a shield for the beneficiary group in the country.
Of course.
That happens every time. I just know a lot of the policymakers in the United
States who promoted this war.
And I think that some of them wanted to destroy Ukraine.
I think that I'm sorry. It's very inhuman. The propaganda that we hear,
very inhuman. It's very cynical.
I mentioned to you this stuff about Russia is collapsing.
This is like already a Twitter joke.
Russia is collapsing for the fourth year in a row.
Mark Rutter said a few weeks ago that Russia is in super bad shape. You need
like three, four months of war more to win.
Where does he come from that?
Tell this to a Ukrainian who is dying.
Tell this to the mother who buried her son or a child. Tell this to a father
lost three children and wife under shelling. It's impossible to explain to
people how politicians come up with the conditions to justify this absolutely
unjustified war.
Because it's not their country and they don't care.
It's evil. I couldn't agree more. Many Ukrainians believe this already.
Many Ukrainians. And again, I'm not justifying Putin here. I agree.
It's just like repeating that he is a monster doesn't help the situation. No,
agree. It's like telling us that Iran's going to get a nuclear weapon in three
weeks.
Telling us that for 25 years at a certain point. I don't believe you.
So you have asked to end with a message to the Russians to...
Vladimir Putin, Russian president in Russian.
And of course, I can't understand Russian.
But you've done, I think, us, the United States, a great service by this
interview. And so I would be happy to turn it over to you to speak directly in
Russian to the Russian president.
Thank you. Of course. It's actually quite a moving moment.
Shall I look there?
Look there.
Vladimir Vladimirovich, I don't have your life experience.
I don't understand how you see this world.
But I'm not a representative of NATO, I'm not a representative of the West.
I don't work for Zelensky, I'm not your political opponent.
I'm not a threat to you at all.
I'm a Ukrainian woman from the Ukrainian provincial city of Kherson.
You say that you are a man of God.
But what is happening in Ukraine has nothing to do with
God, has nothing to do with humanity.
You say that you want peace.
This is the only thing that can be done right today.
The world is the only possible thing that will make Ukraine and Russia
There is no winner in this war.
Both countries lose to the Slavs and kill the Slavs.
I am from Kherson.
I think that your army tells you only noble things.
Only about victories.
But in Kherson, there is a drone safari for people.
And maybe you think that this is Western propaganda.
But there is a national truth.
My mother's nurse worked in the hospital. She went home.
She was talking on the phone, and the Russian drone hurt her and damaged the
phone.
She was bleeding just near the road.
This year, another nurse came home to the village where I grew up in the
region.
She came from the birthday of her grandson, got out of the car, and the
drone killed her.
Recently, we saw a video of evacuating old people.
God, how they fell into the snow, shocked by this explosion in the blood
old people.
In Kherson, in the front -line territories of Ukraine, there are old
the most helpless people who have no money to leave.
Your army will post a video of how it hunts people with drones.
But there must be some limits to humanity.
One of your orders can stop it.
You say that you want peace.
But if you stop it, you will not get anything for it.
Even no one will thank you.
But people will know.
When the world comes, I hope, I pray every day that the world will come. When
comes, we will have to restore the human face to everyone.
And why don't you start doing it now?
Are you going to the circus?
Are you praying?
But when will it be necessary to explain to God why your army is hunting for the
weak, for the old, for the poor people?
Is it a war with NATO?
Is it a war with the West?
What is it? How to explain it?
If you really want peace, one word of yours, one word of yours...
And this drone safari will stop.
And let no one say thank you to you.
But people will know.
The world is the only, only possible solution
today for the strong.
I don't know if you can hear me.
But it needs to be stopped.
I don't know if you will hear me.
It's, you know, I'm actually grateful that I didn't cry so much. I usually cry
so much when I'm talking about the war.
Well, I appreciate everything you've done, and I hope this is widely seen.
Well, thank you very much for giving me the platform and for allowing to have
this frank conversation.
I feel like I took a lot from myself and that my silence could be a contribution
to this war, but now I feel like I did something real and good. Thank you.
I think you did. Thanks very much.
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