All language subtitles for Fascism on a Thread - The Strange Story of Nazisploitation Cinema (2020) BluRay-eng

And now, the
ultimate in screen terror.

The horror that was the Nazi nightmare

explodes on the screen.

- Heil Hitler!

- The Nazisploitation film is really seen

as being the lowest of the low brow,

because it combines Nazism and alludes to

what are some of the worst atrocities

in history with entertainment.

For the next five days,

you are going to be whores
for The Third Reich.

- Sexploitation, torture.

You're hurting me!

- S&M, B&D films, set
within concentration camps.

Where women
were used like cattle.

- I think a lot of people
probably have sat down and gone,

"Oh, I've heard these are really dirty."

And then watch them and go,

"Oh actually, this is
putting me off a bit."

- This is just the beginning,
you frigid, puritanical kid.

- It is obvious that
there is two different

Nazi exploitation sectors of movements.

One is in North America, and
the other one is in Italy.

- In Italy, people were making films,

not just so much about Nazism,

as about the level of culpability
that the Italian state

and Italian society had in its
collaboration with the Nazis.

Bertolucci made, "The
Conformist," in 1970.

1974, you've got, "The Night
Porter," Liliana Cavani.

- Some people have started to
deal with this subject matter

from the art house front, and
these films were successful.

And they started to play with
some kind of an imaginary

that definitely people like Tinto Brass,

or people like Garrone, or all these guys,

immediately identified as bankable.

Ladies in lingerie with
Gestapo caps and a whip.

If that was respectable from
an art house point of view,

they said, "People like this,
let's make our own movies."

But the funny thing that always happened

with good filmmakers, and especially

with Italian filmmakers,

they were also making quite good movies.

- In the mid to late 1970s,
a kind of mini-explosion,

a sort of hand grenade goes off, really,

and you get a series of films themed

around using the Nazis
as a starting point,

and World War II experience
of Nazism that Europe faced.

Used that as a starting point,

and they mix it together
with the exploitation film.

And what you get out of
that is a sort of strange,

unholy mess of incoherent texts

and slightly uneven films
that come out of it.

So you have a series of
films that use torture

as a central element.

That stress, because they're essentially

sexploitation films,
hey have a large amount

of nudity and a lot of violence.

And you combine all those things together

with the Nazi element, and you
get this rather strange mix.

Films that actually are
really quite controversial

when they come out, and
actually grow in controversy

as time goes by, and still
arguably are controversial today.

- I can't wait to see your methods.

- Do you find me more exciting?

You're just a bitch on the team.

- Films about Nazism,
touchy subject, obviously,

they go as far back as
Rossellini, "Rome, Open City,"

which is obviously a
serious look on the subject.

- There's a scene in there
where there's the torture

by the Nazi guards.

And the first time I saw that,
I was instantly, it's like,

"Wow, that's Nazi exploitation."

This is like one of the
great canonical films

of Italian art cinema.

And there's this severe
abuse and degradation,

I think it's a priest and male prisoners.

It's the male prisoners,
not the female prisoners,

but there's a lot in that.

- The sexual perversity of the
Nazis in, "Rome, Open City."

The so-called neo-realist film,

which is actually hugely
expressionist about this.

That's almost like a little sketch

of what became the Nazi porno.

But I think, in fact, what the
Nazisploitation genre starts

with is those sort of sensationalist

1950s paperbacks, isn't it?

The sort of confessional
magazines, which go back

to whipping and flogging
stories of World War II

KAPO.

- As time moved on, and people
gained, or lost perspective,

films became less serious perhaps.

Gillo Pontecorvo made a film
called, "Kapo," in 1960.

Susan Strasberg's character is an inmate

in a concentration camp, but
also she's trying to stay alive

by effectively siding with the oppressors.

It's again, difficult film.

- Kapo is probably the
cornerstone of Nazi exploitation.

Again, it's weird how that was received,

compared to what came afterwards.

'Cause I think that an Oscar winner, Kapo,

and it contains of having
set concentration camps

with females in trouble,
that sort of thing,

but was received as a lot more art.

These
are the Von Essenbecks.

These are The Damned.

And this the son who inherits it all.

- I think we can probably
say that the history

of the Nazi sexploitation
films really begins

with Visconti's, "The
Damned," in many respects.

And what you have in, "The Damned,"

is aesthetic of fetishizeation
of the Nazi period,

where it becomes very
decadent, very sexualized.

And this is what Visconti
was trying to evoke,

given his own experiences during
the Italian Fascist Period,

through the Nazi
occupation, and afterwards.

And of course is a very committed Marxist,

committed anti-fascist in that regards.

He was showing that sense of
decadence and moral corruption

within the fascist period.

He's trying to evoke

in that very lush

that he creates in that.

And, "The Damned," I
think is really important

to Nazi exploitation.

I think, not only for
credibility, obviously,

a director like Visconti.

But I think it explores lots of angles,

and interesting elements
that will go through

to the lowbrow as well.

'Cause obviously it's about
an art film with Visconti.

It justifies the low brow,

'cause if you've seen any of this,

there's probably nothing
actually justifies them as such.

But there's elements that you can see

get bleed through into that.

Certainly, the way the brother runs,

and that sort of thing that you see.

It's like a split within lower.

You either have the brothel
Nazi exploitation films,

or the more human experiments

concentration camp sort of thing.

And certainly, "The
Damned," is very important.

In, "The Damned," you
have a family that I think

are based on the Krupp
family, the Krupp dynasty,

the German arms dealers.

And they're in bed with the Nazis.

And to signify the descent into depravity.

And we're talking about the
family in, "The Damned," here,

not the real Krupp family.

But as played by Dirk Bogarde
and co., they're goodness me.

The homosexuality is
often deemed to be a sign

of Nazism and these things,

because it's sort of questionable
from today's perspective

that these things will be
linked as deplorable things.

But the child molesters,
and they're into drugs,

and this is what happens.

This is a left-wing
filmmakers take on Nazism,

and it's associated moral failings,

and depravity, debauchery and so on.

- "The Damned," of course,

talks about the Night of the Long Knives

and the purging of Ernst
Röhm, the gay Nazi.

That element was part of Nazism,

of fascism in the beginning.

Guys getting up in black uniforms,

and marching around together,

and having torchlight ceremonies.

And this very, well frankly,
homoerotic obsession.

I suppose at the time,

if you look at, "Triumph of the Will,"

there's an equal amount
there, this is sort of

suffocatingly Aryan, outdoorsy.

Macho, but sexless,
vision of ideal manhood,

and the equivalent for womanhood.

- Personal morals are dead.

We are an elite society where
everything is permissible.

- The other key film that really

fits into it, is, "Cabaret."

And that's because,
"Cabaret," does a weird thing,

it doesn't do it itself,
but it makes a connection

between the decadence of
Germany and The Weimar Republic.

All this stuff, I suppose
it goes back to Dr. Mabuza.

Yeah, and so you have people
dancing in their underwear,

and it's lots of outrageously
camp stuff, cynicism, yeah.

There's a bit of Brecht
and Weill in there.

And then you have,
"Tomorrow Belongs to Me,"

the Nazis come and beat people up.

And the thing is, that what
Cabaret does is conflate them.

It makes the Nazis part of the movement

that they really hated.

It says that they're the same thing.

And then you have something
like, "Salon Kitty,"

which basically is the underground

from, "Cabaret," become the Nazis.

And, "Salon Kitty," of course,

takes its star from, "The Damned."

And so we have this idea that yeah,

beneath all the clean living,
they were all complete pervs.

Be prepared
to let us take you

inside the barbed wire
gates of, "Love Camp 7."

- In 1969, a director called Lee Frost

made a film called, "Love Camp 7."

Now this is just a roughie,
as they used to call them.

There's no redeeming social value,

there's no attempt to put the Holocaust

in any sort of perspective
for us to get any kind of,

draw any more conclusions from it.

It's just about girls being
abused in a concentration camp.

These things kind of bleed off

into the women in prison sort of genre.

David Friedman who Herschel
Gordon Lewis's producer.

He produced that movie, and
I believe I'm right in saying

that David Friedman was a Jewish man.

So he's making these movies.

So it's difficult to
even know where to start.

- Dear ladies.

I trust you find yourself
entirely refreshed

after your little shower.

- "Love Camp 7," was a just
a place where the girls

were trained to provide
pleasure for the Nazis.

And this involved all kinds of things.

I think there was a scene
where there was a dog

wondering around that looks
completely disinterested,

that's supposed to be sniffing
at the girls' nether regions.

But I don't quite know
what that was all about.

- It sort of comes out of a strange area

of the American exploitation.

It's really quite a hard
film to explain, actually,

'cause it's got a lot
of kitsch camp to it.

So there's always this
dog running about which,

when you get into later Italian films,

certainly like Bruno Mattei,
where the dog appears,

it has very different
connotations completely.

There's something quite iffy.

I think there was talk in, "SS Girls,"

when it first came out,
one of the big things

they were upset about was
the suggestion of bestiality,

of just a dog anywhere near a bed.

And yet, in, "Love
Camp," this dog appears,

and you're not quite sure if that meant

to have the same motif and it's moving

into sort of the more
open-minded pornography

that would come later, the roughie pornos,

and that sort of thing.

Or if it's just weird
comedy, for comedy's sake,

or quite what it is.

Because again, we're
talking of a time in America

where they had Hogan's Heroes,

which a commercial American TV show.

Would go out, kind of like, "M♪A♪S♪H,"

but was set in a Nazi concentration camp.

And I think that's what you
get with, "Love Camp 7."

It's not quite sure what it is,

but it knows it wants some nudity,

it wants to fit patterns.

He almost doesn't take its
subject matter too seriously,

'cause obviously they're
aware, it's Nazis,

it's always gonna be controversial.

It's a strange little
monster, that one, I think.

- With, "The Night Porter,"
you have again a kind of

erotization of Nazi power.

But added to that is how
that power can corrupt

sexually within a concentration camp.

As well, given though
as it's both very much

an art house film, this is
not a sexploitation film.

But in exploiting that sense of power,

exploiting that S&M eroticism.

- Although it's about fascism,
it's not about Nazis, yeah.

And it may well be why,
"Salo" is the profound one,

because it's about human
cruelty, in a way that the others

are all dressed up is about fascism.

- It's a film I admire, I can't
go as far as to say I love,

'cause it's so difficult, and it's stuff

that whenever people say is like,

"Oh have you seen this film?

"Have you seen Human Centipede?"

"Have you seen that?"

And, yeah, I've seen, "Salo."

That takes it.

And I know it's a great art
director, but the pure visceral,

anger and violence that
runs through that is,

if that was an exploitation director,

it would have been banned straight away.

It's 'cause of the revere held

by the great auteur, that he was accepted.

Then that film suddenly goes,

they could see the outside of it.

But I think it's more extreme,

precisely because it comes
from someone like Pasolini,

that he wanted to make a serious
statement against fascism.

And you can detect that, you can see that.

You can sense that in
every frame of this movie.

So coming from the outhouse film,

or from the intellectual film field

makes it a much more powerful statement,

and makes it even more powerful
and the impact much harder

and difficult to digest
than the other movie.

Even the good ones, even the Garrone,

or, "Last Orgy of the Third Reich."

Even with the good acting,

and the supposed to be serious ideas,

and the serious intentions,
you could see that these guys

were trying to follow in the trend.

- Past and future no
longer exists for you.

You are going to serve a victorious cause

for our Third Reich.

- In the case of, "Salo,"
this is an important movie

and the purpose of Pasolini
was denouncing fascism

and showing the darkest
side, not only of fascism,

but also the Italian human beings

that endorsed these ideology.

And even worse, the ones
that didn't endorse it,

but just lived with it, the Conformists.

Well, actually I think it's a film

that deals with conformism.

The only other film that
deals so well with this kind

of mentality is, "The
Conformist," Of course.

- Probably back in the day,
one wanted to see, "Salo,"

because one heard that
people were eating shit,

and there was all sorts of
sexual depravity going on.

And you thought, like a geek
show, "I want to see that."

And then you see it, and it
seems to be a film that people

are increasingly criticizing these days.

I still rate it as a sort of tour de force

presentation of man's inhumanity to man.

I mean, it's based on the
story that was written

during futile times, and
the action such as it is.

The terrible action takes
place during fascist times,

and there's a suggestion at the end

that the oppression still goes on in our

consumerist, capitalist, liberal times

and the people don't realize
that they are being shat on,

but they are by the fast
food, by the consumer society,

by the idiotic TV that they watch.

It's a film that repays repeated viewings,

uneasy as you may be looking at it again,

turning your eyes back to
the horrors of, "Salo."

I think it's a masterpiece.

- Heil Hitler!

Because of the shocking nature
of many scenes in this film,

it is definitely not
recommended for the squeamish

or easily offended.

- An actor is not an actor unless you act,

and you take a role and you commit to it,

and that's how it is.

My whole career as an actress
always seems to have been,

and I hate to admit this, but
maybe it will be encouraging

to other actors out there.

That I would be refused the first time,

and ended up a second choice.

I worked in Las Vegas
20 years doing plays,

I worked in New York
City, had the opportunity

to do a Pinter play on Broadway.

There were many, many
things, but each time

that I auditioned, nobody said no,

you just didn't hear from them.

And I would hear who got it.

Always I would get a phone call
twice after opening nights,

"Are you available?

"We wanna replace them.

"Can you learn the script
overnight if we give it to you?

"Can you be here tomorrow?"

That's how I got, actually, to Las Vegas.

That's how as a singer, I
got to work with my first

big band job, because the girl
found out she was pregnant,

and got very, very sick, and there I went.

I did a show in New York, and that show,

the girl who wanted to
get the part and got it

decided that she should
be tan for the job,

and she got a burn, and
I was the second choice.

When I got to L.A., I had
the opportunity to work,

and I needed work, as a chauffer.

For I was working as a
chauffer in a full outfit.

About that day, about the
midday I got a phone call

from an agent I'd never worked from before

who said, "I have met you, and thought

"that you would be right for this role."

"Can you get there?"

I said, "I'm working."

He said, "Well, just go after work."

I said, "I'm dressed like."

I had on boots up to my hip,

I had on leather pants, a leather jacket.

I had on a chauffer hat, I
was wearing black gloves,

and I was driving a
Mercedes, black giant thing.

He said, "Don't worry about it."

When I got there, the interviews were set

to be over at 5:30, it
was already six o'clock,

and all the girls had been
read, and they were all lined up

sitting at the chairs,

the ones who were still being discussed.

And so one more, they let me in the door,

and they interviewed me.

But I think they had
already made a decision

for one of the girls that was out there.

But she wasn't wearing what I was wearing.

So they said, "Would
you just wait a moment?"

And instead of my leaving
the room, they left the room,

and had a discussion, came back,

and they said, "We'd like
you to take the script home

"and see if you're interested."

- "Ilsa," was produced, I believe,

by David Friedman, a Jewish man.

And it was a Canadian movie.

And again, it's not part of the tradition,

whether being analytical or critical,

or putting any sociological,

political perspective on things.

Philosophical perspective.

It's all about the thrills to be obtained

for those who are this way inclined,

a dominant woman mistreating men.

And it's deplorable stuff,
but it's quite amazing

in its own sick way.

- There were, yeah, for instance,
female Nazi war criminals,

but if you see photographs of them,

they're all dumpy middle-aged
women, weren't they?

And they're hatchet-faced,

the sort of people you
think of as school matrons.

And yet, in the movies,
you get Dyanne Thorne.

You get Playboy pinups
in abbreviated, tailored,

low-cut SS uniforms.

And again, something that actual Nazis

would have horribly disapproved of.

However, maybe that's one
of our revenges of history

is associating Nazis with
all the things they hated.

- She came home with the script.

And she was studying for
the ministry, and she said,

"I have to go to school,
what do you think of this?"

And she gave it to me and she left.

And I looked at it, and I rolled it up,

and I flung it against
the wall and made a hole.

I really did.

And then I looked at it again,

and by the time she got
back from school that night.

She said, "What do you think?"

I said, "I hate it, but
someone's going to do it.

"Take a chance, I would if it was me."

Back to what her philosophy
is, an actor acts.

So I said, "Go ahead, take a shot."

And I went down there to the
set while she was shooting,

and that's when I met Don, what have you.

I thought it was all fine

until I got a phone call one night,

and they said, "Your fiance passed out."

And I said, "What?"

It was 01:30 in the morning,
they had been shooting

for 23 hours, I think.

And everybody was on
the verge of collapse.

And they just kept going,
and so she fainted.

And by the time I got there, she was fine.

And somebody said, "We just
have a little more to do."

And I said, "No you don't, you're done."

And we went home.

And they shot it the next day,

that's my introduction to all of this.

After it was done, I loved it.

- She gives conviction to her stupid role.

She's not acting as though
the material is beneath her,

she gives it all she's got.

Of all the
butchers in The Third Reich,

none was as ruthless as Ilsa,

she wolf of the SS.

- "Ilsa, She Wolf of the
SS," was hugely significant

for a number of reasons.

It's commercially very successful.

In fact, the New York Times
critic, Vincent Canby,

even goes to 42nd Street to watch it.

One imagines that wasn't
a very common occurrence

for Vincent Canby, but
the film is so notorious,

so controversial, that
he goes to watch it.

It appears in Variety's
Top 50 Films of the Week

when it comes out, just
in terms of box office,

because it's making a lot of money.

It's controversial.

People go and see it,
there's nudity in it.

That has a mix of Nazism, nudity,

and of course Dyanne Thorne.

The bloody
butcher the Nazis called Ilsa,

she wolf of the SS.

- The irony is, in the Ilsa shows,

you will see many, many
names for producers.

It's an actor's joke,
but usually if an actor

doesn't like a role, he changes his name.

I wasn't aware of that.

So I was the only one using my own name,

everybody but Don Edmonds
and myself used a phony name,

including producers who
later on came forward

and said, "I did it," because
it was a success then.

But in the meantime, they were all phony.

For these women,
there is no hope, no escape.

For them there is only pain and Ilsa,

she wolf of the SS.

- The impact of Don Edmonds,
"Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS,"

is huge within the cycle.

And it does create, with the Dyanne Thorne

figure of Ilsa, the strong
dominatrix figure within these.

That being said, I wouldn't
call these films feminist

in any way, just because you
have a strong female figure,

she is assuming the phallus, as it were,

in the guys of her whip,

if I can wack
psychoanalytically, momentarily.

Call yourselves men?

I see no manhood between your legs.

- This big, busty women flaunting it,

and castrating prisoners
after sleeping with them.

And there's a scene where this naked girl

is made to stand on a block of ice

with a rope around her
neck and slowly hanging

while the pervy SS guy who's
come to visit has his food.

And then of course, afterwards,
he wants to be peed on.

I'm thinking, "We don't see
this sort of thing on the BBC."

The ending of Ilsa I've always
found really problematic

in the fact that, you never actually

defeat the Nazis in that.

You defeat Ilsa, and the
Nazis come and almost clean up

at the end of that film and go,

"Actually, yeah, you're right,

"she was too extreme for us as well."

- A lot of people could be offended,

but come on, it's such a great film.

We have to admit that.

It has all the elements we
like, and it has Dyanne Thorne,

and it's much of course
than, "Love Camp 7,"

that was the previous
example of these movies.

It's much better, though.

- I didn't see it for a long time,

because the first screening that we had,

I took a couple of my
more famous actor friends,

Val Avery for instance.

He was one of the stars
of, "Papillon," years ago.

Val Avery took my hand and said,

"Dianne, I hate to tell you this,

"but you're never gonna
work in Hollywood again."

And he was serious.

That really touched me, because
ego in, the good is out.

My ego went, "Oh, he's
gonna say I look nice,

"I did a good job."

And he told me that, and that's
how I didn't feel very good.

When a man entered her room,

he never returned quite the same.

- I think you have to praise
Dyanne's performance in it,

because it's just iconic.

Even for people who've
never even imagined the idea

of Nazi exploitation films.

Anytime anyone asks me what
I do, I try and explain it,

and I'll go, "Oh, you probably
may have heard of Ilsa?"

"Oh yeah, that big breasted
women, yeah, yeah."

She's weirdly become some
sort of pop culture icon,

just through, I don't know for the excess.

And again, she's great in it.

I'm not sure what else
she's ever done, really,

but she continued the whole cycle.

I mean, they're all fun to watch.

The woman they call she wolf

is back, more vicious than ever

as "Ilsa, Harem Keeper of the Oil Sheiks."

- After I did the first one,

Don Edmonds was such a fine director,

that when they gave me that opportunity

to do it again, I said, "Oh yeah."

But unfortunately, the third
one was a wonderful director,

not Don Edmonds, but Jean
Lafleur, and he did a fine job.

But the problem was the language barrier,

and I'm afraid that my reputation
intimidated him a touch,

because I would ask for direction,

but he didn't want to give me direction.

Nor did Don Edmonds, they would just say,

"Create the character,"

and so that's what I did the best I could.

So it could have been better,

but I humbly am grateful
for the success of it,

and for all those fans
out there who contact us,

I'm very grateful.

This time she's Kadin,

guardian of the royal harem.

With her black beauties, Velvet and Satin,

she's the real power behind
the throne of El Sharif.

- When the second film came up,

we did not have an agent,
she did not have an agent.

Well, she knew a lot of
them that she'd worked for,

but no signed agent, so
we started making calls,

and nobody was interested, not in her.

They would love to be her agent,
but not involved with Ilsa.

So I said, "Okay, I'll negotiate
the contract," and I did.

And I did fine.

And then after the second
one, they all started calling

and saying, "What about the next one?"

And I said, "I can handle it.

"I don't need an agent for that."

And that was how the entire
thing went, right down the line.

Don't miss cinema's
number one female villain,

Dyanne Thorne, that
woman you love to hate,

in her newest, meanest
role as, "The Tigress."

- With the sequels, you
instantly always think,

"Well, they all said she's a Nazi."

But it's only one of the
films that she's a Nazi.

Everything else, the character morphs

around what they want to film to be.

Because I mean, obviously,
she dies in, "Ilsa, She Wolf,"

so she shouldn't ever come back.

We can forget that,
because we wanna see more

of Dyanne Thorne at that point.

You wanna see a repraised Ilsa role,

because it is so eye catching.

- That's part of the joy,

that she dies in every film, she dies.

There isn't one that I live through.

- So you suddenly just go,
"Okay, I know she died,

"she was supposed to be a Nazi.

"I can accept her in
the House of Saud now.

"I can accept her here
with the harem keepers."

And they'll probably go,
"Yeah, it's still Ilsa."

And even such an alien
setting, you suddenly go,

"Oh yeah, no, that's Ilsa."

You get it, instantly, straight away.

You got that, and then,

same when she suddenly
becomes a Stalinist.

There's nothing more anti-Nazis.

You suddenly got someone who
was once supposedly based

on Ilse Koch, this ultimate Nazi figure.

Now it's like, "Oh no,
she's a communist now."

Don't worry, it's there, it's okay.

You don't even have to
even think about it.

It's best if you don't think about it,

just sit back and enjoy it, really.

You knew her as
the ruthless and evil Ilsa.

Now, in a role even more cruel,

sadistic, tyrannically insane.

- I always enjoyed the one,

I know she wasn't a big fan of it,

but the film she made with Jesús Franco,

"The Wicked Warden."

I think 'cause there's
not many other films

that just, it's perfect for Jesús Franco.

Much to say with Bruno Mattei,

it's always perfect for him
to do Nazisploitation films,

just for that excess coming out there.

- She was signed up to
do another Ilsa film,

which was, "Ilsa Meets Bruce
Lee in The Devil's Triangle."

- We had a picture in the Washington Post

right on the front page
of the theatrical page

to tell you about this coming of it.

And my preparation was
to take karate lessons,

and really be prepared.

- Which we would have
loved to have seen, really,

but sadly it didn't happen.

- It's one of the few
characters that can just go,

"I don't care what it is,
I just wanna watch it."

- The funny thing I find is that I think

she retired after making Ilsa,

and she's now a minister in Las Vegas.

And if you're going to
Las Vegas to get married,

then you can get her to marry you.

- We have that wedding business,

which is absolutely
marvelous and sometimes,

we've even been asked to
restate vows in costume.

And so if you want Ilsa to marry you,

and you want to have some
trouble here with my general,

we'll have you, be very
glad to assist you.

Together
with her black widows,

she committed crimes so
terrible, even the SS feared her.

- I think Ilsa is a weirdly
influential trash movie,

particularly as it influenced

the Italian Nazi sexploitation films.

- If we take that film,
and we throw it in the air

and combine it with things
like, "The Night Porter,"

"The Damned," "Salo," then you kind of get

a production line for what happens later

in Nazisploitation films.

They're really a
combination of those things.

- In addition to sort of highlighting

within the exploitation
market, the S&M qualities

of the Nazi sexploitation film.

The other major influence that Ilsa had

was the game of just how low
can you go with these films.

- How do you find the experiment?

- Excellent.

I think you're a genius, you're
wonderful, Dr. Dr. Kratsch.

- What's important to understand

is the Italian film industry

and how the Italian film industry works.

We're dealing with an
industry in the 1960s and '70s

that by the mid '70s is making somewhere

between 250 and 300 films a year.

A lot of those, co-productions.

Now, the logic of it is one of
piggy-backing on the success

of films that are commercially
successful elsewhere.

They might be big-budget
Hollywood films that set a trend,

they might be films like Ilsa.

But essentially, Italian
producers at this time

are saying, "Where's the money?

"Let's follow that."

We have this idea in Italy of the filone.

Essentially the river, the current,

the gold mine, and we follow that.

So if films about Nazis are making money,

we make a lot of films about Nazis.

- Very soon you'll have this swine

under lock and key, you'll see.

- For a period of about
two years at the peak,

there was a cycle of films
known as sadico-nazista,

which essentially again were
about the dodgy sadomasochistic

thrills and connotations of Nazism.

- There are Nazisploitation
films elsewhere.

There were French versions, for instance,

and we can look back historically further.

But actually, it's really
in Italy in the mid 1970s

that we get this explosion
of the Nazisploitation film.

Salon Kitty.

The notorious house of forbidden pleasures

in Berlin under the Nazis.

- Moving into Italian
sexploitation in general,

you would have Tinto Brass' Salon Kitty,

which is about a bordello
during The Third Reich

which has bugged each of
the rooms in order to get

state secrets, which the
various Nazi High Command

would be telling to their prostitutes.

- Its plot is based on,
what I didn't realize

until doing a bit of
research on it, a true story.

You got this loyal group of prostitutes

who are all chosen as loyal Nazis

willing to give their
body for The Third Reich.

Again, you can talk about the capitalist

consumption sort of angle.

But they were all there for
that, and it's just this idea

of a paranoid state spying
on its own heads of staff,

and also the implosion within.

Kitty, war
has just been declared.

Are we going
to put on testing events

because war has been declared?

- Tinto Brass, the guy
was a maestro at erotica,

and all the women in it looked fantastic.

The film itself is quite interesting,

has got a decent storyline,

it's got a lot of good actors in it.

And it's like a Nazisploitation film

if they had money to do one.

- Brass once said that given the choice

between unpopular art
and popular pornography,

he always opted for popular pornography.

Brass also said that his
biggest education as a filmmaker

was, quote, "Fucking in brothels."

So this is the kind of
orientation that that movie had.

- Also with Tinto Brass,
it's quite easy to forget

his history as a great
auteur, as director.

He was, at one point,

christened the future
heir Michael Anteloni,

But obviously, we now think of him

as the man who made, "Caligula,"

"The Key," many a softcore.

You become more so an Italian Russ Meyer.

So to try and remember that he was once

considered this great
avant-garde director.

So I think that's where
with, "Salon Kitty,"

it has to be in the middle sort of thing.

And it's also again
become a huge influence

in a lot of the low brow films.

Something like, "Red
Nights of the Gestapo,"

is almost the remake of it, really.

"SS Girls," owes huge debts to it as well.

- You are to be highly trained,
individual love machines.

By the time you complete your training,

you'll be able to couple with anyone.

- It actually opens with a
train carriage full of women,

which again is as close an
emotive for the Holocaust

that a lot of the films get to, actually.

So you've got this train, the carriage,

these women stuck in there like cattle,

being taken into an unnamed camp.

So instantly you can think Auschwitz,

any of the notorious camps.

And they're then just dragged out,

and thrown straight into their.

And again, there's a total
dehumanization of them.

Help me, help!

- Oh God, let her die.

- Help me.

- "SS Experiment Love Camp,"
is the one that most people

would have heard, if
you've heard of any of it,

will have heard of it,
as as it was the great

evil of video nasties.

The iconic front cover, that's the one

that goes straight up there.

It was always instantly thrown away,

it's like, "No, that's too extreme."

- The ironic thing is that the film itself

is like an episode of 'Allo 'Allo.

The experiments are
ludicrous, the dialogue,

everything is ridiculous.

But that image really
generates a lot of heat,

and not much light with
the mainstream media

during that period of the video nasties.

Garrone made, I believe,
back to back with that one

or possibly simultaneously
he made a film called,

"Women's Camp Number Five,"
which is actually more graphic

in its depiction of some
of these atrocities.

- With all those beautiful women arriving,

I hope it's a secret
mission of a sexual nature.

- There are several dialogue scenes

in, "SS Experiment Camp,"
that just still tickle

one's funny bone all these years later.

There's a guy, who to
make himself more virile,

he has one of the leading
characters' testicles

transplanted into his own scrotum.

And the guy wakes up
and he sort of realizes

something's not up.

And then the penny drops,
if not the testicles,

and he says, "You bastard!

"What have you done to my balls?"

- You've been doing with my balls.

- The acting, and
everything, and the dubbing,

and everything else is so funny.

And if you love sleazy
stuff, as a lot of us do,

then it ticks all the boxes.

There's people screaming,
giant goldfish bowls,

and all kinds of castration
and stuff going on.

- It takes a very special mind,
I think, to have made that.

- Every prisoner has an average
lifespan of nine months.

- Bruno Mattei, I don't
think he was as accomplished

as a director as Garrone.

Of course, everybody
knows this, but come on.

I mean, he was also part of this trend

of artisan of Italian horror movies.

And his craft was also
immediately identified,

or identifiable in any sub-genre he made.

And of course, he's much better
known for his horror movies,

and his zombie movies, and
"Rats, Nights of Terror,"

and stuff like that.

But it's true that his
Nazi exploitation stuff

was quite popular.

I'm not sure if people was very aware

that it was the same
director, but that came later

with the fan scenes and the
horror magazines and all that.

But before that, I'm not sure they knew

it was the same director.

But of course, I love
Bruno Mattei's movies.

- Yes, a toast to The Third
Reich, and the Fuehrer!

To the Fuehrer!

- These two Nazi films
are really interesting,

but very, very different.

"SS Girls," is a hoot, really.

The lead character, the lead Nazi

is just one of the greatest mad Nazis

you'll ever want to see.

Obviously, he's evil,
but he's perfectly evil.

He's just insane.

And the whole film is so
amazingly over the top

to the points of, "Oh,
you must be able to sleep

"with anybody for The Third Reich."

There's almost certain times

where it feels like a sex comedy.

There's points where they opened windows

and just peer through
as someone's having sex.

At times, there's hints of confessions

of a window cleaner to it.

You then get to, "Women's Camp 119,"

and it's a totally,
totally different film.

There is no fun in, "Women's Camp 119."

It opens instantly going to Ravensbrück,

a real concentration camp that apparently

was set up just for women prisoners.

And then lead it through there,

there is no fun and
games, slap and tickle,

this is a concentration camp,

and this is about medical experimentation.

There's no humanity there,

it's just because these aren't people,

these are test subjects.

And it's such a weirdly different feeling.

And it continues that same sort of motif

of capitalist consumption of the body.

If you can say that for, "Salo,"

I think you have to be able to say that

for some of the lowbrow films as well,

without anything like the great flourishes

of a great master, but they
do exactly the same thing.

- Another film on the DPP's
banned list of video nasties

was Cesare Canevari's,
"The Gestapo's Last Orgy."

And that is probably trying to be a bit

of, "A Night Porter," rip off.

It's taking the extreme
imagery from, "Salo,"

without putting it in anything like

the same intellectual
framework that Pasolini had,

the analytical and critical framework

of what fascism was all about.

It's unpleasant and probably
indefensible in any terms.

- I find, "Gestapo's Last
Orgy," to be perhaps the most

interesting of any of these films.

A, because they're
actually Jewish victims.

B, because it's actually
a concentration camp,

and those elements become
discourse within the film itself

and becomes about that.

So not only is there a
honesty there, or at least

a full admission of what
it is that they're doing.

It's interesting in that the other films

don't make reference to that.

- Pay the body and the mind.

Never must a Jew be allowed the honor

of orgasm with an Aryan.

See them?

Those girls are your enemies all.

- I think in, "The Night Porter,"

Charlotte Rampling's
character is the daughter

of a socialist, she's not a Jewish woman.

"SS Experiment Camp," their
prisoners are conscious

having their testicles swapped around,

and being dumped in barrels of ice,

and all the other crazy
stuff they get up to.

And Ilsa's antics, conspicuously
swerve around the whole

question of the Holocaust.

- Perhaps even for
Italian exploitation films

and sexploitation films,
there are some taboos.

And ultimately, whilst
their dealing with Nazism,

the Holocaust itself is, I suppose,

one of the last taboos really,

because of the nature of the Holocaust.

That said, that isn't to
say that some of these films

don't get very close to
mentioning or exploring

the Holocaust in some way.

"Gestapo's Last Orgy,"
does feature sequences

where women are put into
what very much looks

like an oven and appear
to be burned to death.

- I think the final
solution is just too real,

and these filmmakers are
not going for reality.

This is all about fantasy,

with the exception of,
"Gestapo's Last Orgy."

- You get some redemption at the end

of, "Gestapo's Last Orgy,"

which you don't get
in, "The Night Porter."

I think it's a more
interesting conversation

about the suffering of
Italian women at that point,

and what they had to
do to survive in camps.

There's nothing wrong with
the women having to do,

if that's to survive.

I think we can all say to
survive in something like that,

you do pretty much anything,
and that's what you get

when you watch, "Gestapo's Last Orgy."

There's no pride in that one.

Whereas, "The Night Porter,"
there is a definite feeling

that Rampling's character
has transferred over,

and transferred a lot of
emotion over to the Nazis.

At no point in, "Gestapo's Last Orgy,"

do you feel that Lisa is ever actually

transferred any ideas or feelings over.

She's always trying to
just survive for herself.

And I think that's an interesting part

with some of the lowbrow films, actually,

that there's a conversation
about individual identity.

Whereas in the highbrow there's much more

of a kind of national
identity and a discussion

of what these things mean nationally.

Whereas in each of these films,
they'll throw you in there

and go, "Look, this is
the individual suffering.

"This is the individual's road

"to redemption or understanding."

- "The Beast in Heat," is a
film that shows the absurdity

of the Nazisploitation to a great extent.

- Go to work, my beauty,
show us your stuff!

That's right, rape her!

Show her no mercy!

- "The Beast in Heat," half of
it is an unfinished war movie

with scenes of partisans
involved in some battle.

And then every so often, we
cut to this torture chamber

where this sexy sort of SS officer.

There she is, she's
got all the uniform on,

it's just like some masochist's wet dream.

And she's abusing guys and
girls, and she's bred a sort of

oversexed dwarf in a cage.

- Tell me, do you find the spectacle

exciting, Private Schultz?

- Yes, of course.

Who wouldn't be excited?

- The concept of Salvoris as the beast

is always been one of my
favorite things in the film.

And this idea that they
are making the master race.

Obviously, you all have your own ideas

of what the Nazis believed
was the master race.

This pure Aryan.

What it certainly wasn't,
was a short, hairy man

locked in a cage who
does nothing but grunt

and grab anything thrown into his cage.

How this is the master
race, I have no idea.

- A beast who is gonna
be used as a kind of tool

by the Nazis, by evil Nazi scientists,

to do we're not quite sure what.

But what that character does
do, what the best does do

is for instance what have
been quite shocking scenes

of the beast attempting to
eat somebody's pubic hair off.

And actually have very aggressive

sexual relations with people.

People are given to the beast so the beast

can effectively rape them and kill them.

- There's bits that are just horrific.

Even in the medical experiment scene,

you go from a point where
they're pulling out finger nails,

to suddenly they remove a bucket,

and what are supposed
to be gnawing on someone

are two of the tamest,
most beautiful looking

guinea pigs in the world.

But there's no attempt at
pastiche, or anything like that.

It's not as if they went, "We
want to lighten the mood."

They just went, "That's
what we can afford."

Or probably, "That will
scare the actress less."

- These are great films
for guinea pig fanciers,

but in terms of graphic, however.

I've actually been bitten by a guinea pig,

but lived to tell the tale.

- Because it's one of the more ridiculous

of the Nazi exploitation films,

it has flickers of genuine
ludicrousness in the way that

a film has some crossover
personnel with it,

"Frankenstein's Castle of Freaks."

- To be honest, it's not
the most realistic of films,

"The Beast in Heat."

There's an Ilsa-type dominatrix lady,

as there is in most of these things.

And at one point, she got
these naked men tied up

and she walks along threatening them,

and she says, "If any
of you get an erection,

"I'm gonna cut your what's-it off."

It doesn't say in those words, obviously,

but that's the threat, anyway.

And of course, immediately, they all do.

It was boing, spring up.

- There's a very serious
edge to, "Beast in Heat,"

that I find intriguing,
because it continues

the resistance motif that you see running

through near-realism and post that,

the idea that there's this
strong Italian resistance

running through, fighting off the Nazis.

But it's also interesting the fact,

it's one of the few lowbrow, or actually,

I think even with the highbrow,

that actually mentions ally bombings.

'Cause I think that's
a very touchy subject

on the concept that, obviously,
the bombings that killed

a lot of Italians will
have been allied bombings.

But they were also the
saviors and the liberators.

So it's a very difficult conversation,

but the end scene where he's
just carrying the dead boy

is always heartbreaking.

For a film that schlocky to have

such a heartbreaking
ending, it's really weird,

but it's well worth it.

I find it a very intriguing little film.

- One of the first great
anti-Nazi statements

is, Bertolt Brecht, "The
Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui,"

and I always wondered, is the
title, "The Beast in Heat,"

actually a reference to
the climax of, "Arturo Ui,"

where they talk about how
fascism has been defeated,

but the bitch that bore
it is in heat again.

Because the idea that this
is not a stoppable thing,

that it will come back unless we vision.

I honestly doubt that.

I just think that it's the title

that they slapped on this
one when they threw it out.

That's just a little sample.

The fun is just beginning.

- Even the director of the movie,

sometimes he's known as Paolo Solvay,

sometimes he's known as Luigi Batzella.

It's like as though he
maybe didn't wanna really

own up to having made the movie,

and one wouldn't be at all surprised.

But it's a hoot, and it's
in terrible bad taste.

And you wanna wash your eyes
after you've watched it,

but I'm not sure that it ever
promoted the cause of Nazism.

Elsa, Fräulein SS.

An unknown chapter of the bloody
history of the Nazi empire

is finally revealed in this
film you will never forget.

- The cycle continued in France.

And obviously, there's
a correlation connection

between two countries that
have their own occupied status,

but also a collaborationist
government as well

with the Vichy in France.

So they've got their own cycle.

And obviously, you've
got the amazingly titled,

"Elsa, Fräulein SS."

So it again tips into this idea

of tapping into a previously made film,

so you're meant to
think it's an Ilsa film.

It's not, it's Elsa, totally different.

Obviously totally different character,

how could you get them confused?

But it also then explores different paths,

and it explores the French idea of,

what their guilt and trauma,
and what they went through.

- The producer of "Ilsa,"

the original Ilsa in Canada, Andre Link,

was a distributor of our movie in Canada.

He start to distribute movies.

His first idea was, "The Awful Dr. Orlof."

So we were friend with Andre,

and we had the idea to make also some,

what they call now Nazi exploitation.

But at this time, the name never appeared.

And my dad was in the French Resistance.

He got for the Resistance,

so he was very accurate for those titles.

And this idea came to make something,

and we met somebody.

We had the idea of a train,
with girls in the train.

And so this was the beginning,
"Special Train for Hitler."

It was a different way to have
sexy movie, and war movie.

Because if you see the
movie, it's a war movie

with sexy sequence.

- The movie has been
distributed in many territories

without any sex scenes, the movie.

Any sex on the screen.

We understand it was a trend where women

were used by the Nazi,
but there is no sex.

So it is first a war story of a spy movie.

And it is the same for,
"Elsa Fraulein SS."

Even is the title is within French.

But they're spy movie.

And to be able to sell
the movie everywhere,

it was, let's say, even natural

to have sex sequence in the movie.

"Elsa Fraulein SS."

She uses her power with cynical brutality

in the name of Hitler's Third Reich.

- Copycat stuff, yeah, I was aware of it.

I must say, of the few that I've seen

that were done, they're awful.

- When the nasties
started to come through.

I used to go to my local video shop,

and you never knew what
was coming the next week.

So I remember saying to him,

"Do you have a film called
Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS?"

And he said, "No, but I've
got, Gestapo's Last Orgy,"

or something, and I went, "Oh,
okay, that'll have to do."

And then it was like next week,

"Have you got Ilsa in yet?"

"No, but I've got Elsa fraulein SS,"

which is same sort of thing.

And I said, "Well, it's not really."

Anything goes.

But there is more to the train

than simply being a brothel on wheel.

- "Holocaust 2, the Vendetta,
the Delirium, the Memories,"

it has a rather lengthy original title,

is an exploitation version

of the Simon Wiesenthal
story, effectively.

Of a society of Holocaust survivors,

who in today, 1979, 1980,

are going out assassinating escaped Nazis.

It's a curious film, 'cause I can't think

of any other film like it, except maybe,

"The Boys From Brazil."

Maybe in some regards this is sort of

an Italian exploitation version
of, "The Boys From Brazil."

- It doesn't quite feel
like a Nazisploitation film.

I think it's made actually a few years

after the cycle really died,

and it seemed like it tried
to fit into a different cycle.

I'm not quite sure what cycle
it was trying to fit into,

something like crime.

'Cause there's a little of poli-sci to it,

but there's undoubtedly,

the Nazi exploitation runs through it.

No, it's one of those that
sticks out a little bit

as just a little oddity
that you're not quite sure

where it fits, but you wanna
know more about it, I think.

They may be lowbrow films,

and the concept of the
Italian exploitation

was that you make 'em, you look
to sell 'em as far and wide.

If they don't make any money, you stop it.

These films that went for two years,

they made about 24 lowbrow,
and they barely left Italy.

So there's some sort of interesting there,

even the American Grindhouse
circuit wouldn't touch them,

which I think has always said

that there's something
there at that point.

- You'll do perfectly.

- No!

- Anything in Italy
that did well was remade

until people stopped coming to see it.

And these films have really
like a two-year burst,

so on the grounds of
taste, of people just not

finding them particularly entertaining,

or maybe being embarrassed by them.

It was one of the shortest
lived Italian filone.

- Doctor, please!

No!

No!

- It's very difficult to
just expand the universe

of a concentration camp
exploitation sex movie.

You can make it a little bit more extreme,

or you can make it a little bit more sexy,

or a little bit more comedy,
or a little bit more serious.

But the barbed wire fences
of these concentration camps

are the boundaries of
the sub-genre itself.

- With a little bit of
inspiration from, "Salo,"

and, "The Night Porter,"
and, "The Damned,"

and, "Ilsa", obviously,

this little minor cycle of films emerges,

but they're using the narrative
of the women in prison films

that were in the early 70s.

And so it's about moments
where the filone changed.

How the extreme S&M, exploitation,

sexploitation films follow.

So it's nothing about the Nazis per se,

it's simply a different backdrop.

- Heil Hitler!

Heil Hitler!

Heil Hitler!

- Heil!

- The strange thing about the
whole Nazisploitation genre

is that you know you
shouldn't really like it.

And I have a lot of friends

who are very politically correct,

but they're film buffs,
they still love those films.

They're politically incorrect.

And it's not really something
that should be exploited,

the whole area, but fortunately
in a way they're so bad,

most of them, that you laugh at them

rather than find them offensive.

- Look at them, little Lize.

Think about the last time
you saw yourself in a mirror.

You'll never see that lovely face again.

- I think it's the right of art to exist,

and as much horrible, and
the levels they push 'em,

even at their lowest, these are art films.

As you can see in the bleeding,

there's things like, "In A Glass Cage."

Their beliefs are still there.

I mean, even referring to
torture porn in the 2000s,

"Saw," "Hostel," and that sort of a beat.

And the body horrors of France.

There is definite links
to Nazi exploitation,

the levels they pushed.

I mean, as horrible as
the Mondo films were,

people understand that there was a reason

that they have to be
studied and understood.

And I think the Nazi exploitation films

are exactly the same idea.

We have to study, we can't
just lock them away and go,

"Oh yeah, no, that's too much.

"That excess was insane.

"Why did anyone do that?

"That's just a step too
far, we'll ignore that."

We won't learn anything until
we actually put it out there.

- People have begun to go back and say,

"Actually, do these
films have any meaning?"

And even if the text
themselves are incoherent,

even if they're badly filmed,
is there something there?

What is it saying about us, perhaps,

that we've made these
films in the mid 1970s,

people have consumed these films,

and people are fans of these films today.

Why, I suppose, is the question
that the people usually ask

in those circumstances.

We Magazine
says Dyanne Thorne

is a female James Bond dedicated to evil.

- It's just one of those crazy
things, it's just really.

And it goes on.

And when you think that
"Ilsa," one, "The She Wolf,"

was shot in '74, and it's still out there,

and the people that are
young are involved in it.

It's amazing.

It is amazing, she's got fans,

and people calling and
contacting worldwide.

- I just want people to
know I really appreciate

that after all this time,
that the young people

are equally interested.

Perhaps my generation
was more judgemental.

So they would say, "How
could you do that film?"

And now they go, "I'm so
glad you did that film."

And I just wanna say, if
I sign an Ilsa Picture,

please know the first word I use is peace,

and may we have that.