Original subtitles

That's tough, girl.

I remember thinking okay,

this is gonna be this small little film,

but you know, an opportunity to tell my story.

He was one of the kindest,

most loving, caring people I knew.

And he also sexually abused me.

For seven years.

I met him on the set of the Pepsi commercial.

The movie coming out, the scope of what happened

was like, ya know, the thing I was most afraid of.

Michael always said, ya know,

your life would be over if people knew.

He would want me to suck on his nipples

and then, he would finish himself.

I was sleeping and I woke up and Michael said

that he had performed oral sex on me while I was sleeping

and I was like, "okay."

Leaving Neverland,

the new, potentially damaging documentary

about music legend, Michael Jackson.

Police prepped for demonstrators and possible threats.

Wade Robson and James Safechuck claim

Jackson abused them for years when they were young children.

Here I am, sitting at a movie theatre,

with all of these strangers watching

some of the most intimate details of my life.

I guess it sort of became a routine,

masturbating, the oral sex.

I was seven, man.

It's two little boys and I believe many other children

who were savaged by a paedophile, but worse,

there was a massive group of people and money

behind Mr. Jackson who allowed this to occur.

Pursuing this was the act of fighting back.

I wanted to fight for little James.

I wanted to fight for him and fight for myself.

Why do you think they're coming forward now?

Money.

You think it's all about money.

What did, it's all about money.

It's always been about money.

They can tell each other that

and they might even believe it,

but nobody else does.

Everybody knows what he was.

Their biggest fear is to put a California jury in a box

and hear this case.

That's their fear.

All of my interactions with him,

they were organised by people who worked for him

and worked with him.

What they're alleging is that Michael Jackson

was a paedophile.

That's not negligence.

They could've supervised any time that Michael Jackson

was with these kids.

They could've warned the parents.

They could've called the police.

They didn't do what a reasonable person would've done

in order to protect these kids,

and as a result, the kids were damaged,

and therefore, they're liable.

How do they sleep at night?

Hiding everything that Michael was really up to.

I want my day in court.

When I first started speaking about the abuse

to my therapist,

one of the early things that started coming up for me

was okay, this is what happened to me.

This is what Michael did to me.

What do I do with this now?

I went to the beach and did the burning of ya know,

items, Michael items, personal items, memorabilia items.

As those items were burning

and I was looking at them melt

and disintegrate in the fire,

I started talking to Michael.

Ya know, to Michael's spirit.

Michael, somehow I'm gonna turn your wrong

into a right.

You know that the things you're gonna say

here this morning and perhaps in a court of law

are gonna get a lot of attention,

make a lot of headlines.

Why didn't you go to the lawyers and do this quietly?

And try to settle,

- make some kind of a deal? - Right, right.

Because I've lived in silence and denial

for 22 years and I can't spend another moment in that.

In order to truly heal,

I have to speak my truth and I have to

speak the whole truth.

That's one thing that you'll never see from me.

I'm never gonna go away with this

for the sake of money.

I'm never going to be silenced for money.

That's not gonna happen.

That was a big decision deciding whether or not

to join the lawsuit.

I was totally disconnected from myself in the past

as little James.

'Cause you blame yourself for the abuse.

And ya know, it's a terrible feeling.

I wanted to fight for little James.

I wanted to fight for him and fight for myself.

I'm recently just trying to connect with little James and,

ya know, imagining telling him that

it's okay and,

and that I love him.

So I'm kinda going, trying to reconnect with

myself as a child,

so I don't even know what he would say to me.

I don't know.

We're brought in because we specialise

in child sexual abuse litigation.

The only thing we rely on is

whether we believe the victim,

whether we believe em.

And if we do believe them,

then we find out a way to help them.

So, I think a lot of people assume

that if we prove Mr. Jackson molested Wade and James,

that we win.

That's not the case.

The perpetrator, Michael Jackson, is deceased.

Just because someone has passed away

does not mean you cannot bring a lawsuit.

So, there's two defendants.

It's MJJ Productions, Inc, and MJJ Ventures, Inc,

which are just loan out corporations

created for the sole purpose of shielding

the entertainer from personal liability.

While Mr. Jackson certainly bares a lot of responsibility

for this, like every other paedophile case

I've ever encountered,

paedophiles don't operate in a vacuum,

especially successful ones.

What we have to show is that MJJ Productions,

his company that he owned,

was aware of it and knew it.

People there were aware of it and knew it.

From how I met Michael in the first place

to how we met again and then,

once we became friends,

all of my interactions with him

were organised by people who worked for him

and worked with him.

There were so many times bodyguards

that worked for Michael, right outside of the door

when abuse was going on,

whether that was at Neverland or in trailers,

at a recording studio,

always people around that worked for him.

There was knowledge that there was something weird going on

and nobody in the organisation, seemingly,

did anything about it.

People must have known.

It's hard to imagine being okay with the

constant cycle of kids

coming in and out.

Can't imagine how they didn't know.

I believe that any normal person,

seeing the things that were going on

with Michael Jackson and between him and the kids,

would have suspicions very early on

as to what he was doing.

The fact that he was always surrounding himself

with young boys, many of whom look the same.

He usually had one who was his special friend.

And he'd call em a special friend, my little friend,

and he would interact with these kids in a way

that someone would interact

with a boyfriend or a girlfriend.

Is that really appropriate?

So I would find it very hard to believe

that someone who is an adult employee of Michael Jackson

would not, at the very least, have a suspicion

as to what's going on.

Michael Jackson got away with this for a long time.

The very first one we know of

involves a young girl who was actually a tomboy

and it's my understanding she was sexually abused

by Mr. Jackson in the mid 1980s

and he ended up paying her a settlement

in the range of about $900,000.

And it was paid by his companies.

There's another one involving

Michael Jackson's housekeeper's son.

Jason Francia did disclose that he was fondled

by Michael Jackson and that a lot of times,

during the fondling acts,

Michael would slip money in his pocket,

presumably in a way to keep him quiet

and not disclose the information to his mother.

He brought a claim and that claim was settled

and he was paid out.

There was an allegation made by a boy named

Jordan Chandler that he was sexually abused

by Michael Jackson in the early 90s.

And that was litigated for quite some time

very extensively.

Mr. Chandler asked Michael,

"Are you fucking my son in the ass?"

And Michael said, "I would never use that word."

We knew we were having problems

going into the investigation because Michael Jackson

was aware that the father complained

to other people about the sexual abuse

and in fact, was asking for money

and there was concern that he might have been

charged for extortion.

Michael Jackson's camp decided not to

go forward in that case.

So there was a fondling and masturbation.

There were incidents of oral copulation

where Michael orally copulated Jordan

and Jordan used the term, when he ejaculated

that it was called duck butter.

Jordan also described the fact that Michael

ate the semen, his semen,

or the drippings, as he called it.

Jordan drew a picture of Michael's penis

with specific spots or discolouration on the body

and on the penis.

Jordan came across as being very honest,

very credible.

Everything that he described is certainly a crime.

It was credible enough where we were able

to obtain search warrants.

These statements about me are totally false.

They served a search warrant on me

which allowed them to view and photograph my body,

including my penis, my buttocks,

my lower torso, thighs, and other area that they wanted.

After the warrant was served for Michael's body,

it was, I didn't see it personally but,

it was my understanding that it was confirmed,

that those markings were present

as Jordy had described them on the drawing.

Thank you very much for all of your support.

Together, we will see this through to the very end.

The case ended.

How did it end all of a sudden?

There was a civil suit that was going along at the same time

and they had a settlement in the civil suit

that ended up being an exorbitant amount of money.

I mean, he was paid some $20 million or more

and that was apparently the quid pro quo of the payout

that this criminal case would go away

and he would go away, and that's exactly what happened.

It was a big blow to the case.

We had another victim in Santa Maria

who was wiling to testify but only

if there were other children that were testifying.

When Jordy Chandler backed out,

he didn't wanna go it alone.

Ya know, the guy walked

and now there's gonna be other victims,

probably a multitude of victims.

He's not gonna stop.

Paedophiles don't stop.

Check one, two.

What's goin' on tonight?

An arrest warrant for Mr. Jackson has been issued

on multiple counts of child molestation.

The young boy met Jackson when he was given

only weeks to live after being diagnosed with cancer.

The boy reportedly told a therapist

Jackson fondled him in his private parts.

And then, you fast forward to the allegations later,

when Wade was an adult

and Michael asked him to testify for him

in the criminal trial.

He said, "Ya know, we can't let them do this to us.

We can't let them take us down."

Us, us, us.

I definitely had a real fear of what he said

about if anyone ever found out,

that he and I would go to jail.

And Michael called him and called him and called him

and called him and kept begging him and begging him

and begging him.

So, at some point, I worked up the courage

to tell Michael that I don't wanna testify.

After that, I received a subpoena to testify.

And so, there it is.

Ya know, I got no choice.

That's what I'm doing.

He was their first witness and I cross-examined him.

Spoke well, presented well.

That's why he was the first witness for the defence.

Did Michael ever touch you, anything sexual?

No, absolutely not.

Just ya know, look him in the eyes

and be clear.

Choreographer, Wade Robson, acknowledged sharing a bed

with the singer many times when he was a child.

- "Did Mr. - Jackson ever molest you

at any time," the defence lawyer asked.

"No, never," Wade Robson replied.

Tom Mesereau said that Wade Robson

was singularly the best witness he had ever seen,

which must be disconcerting to him today

to discover that Wade Robson now says

he was molested for years by Micheal Jackson.

I wasn't able to tell the truth.

Absolutely not.

I was asked questions about whether

Wade Robson should be prosecuted for perjury.

I said no.

I said that this is one of those things where

very few people have any control over what happens,

least of whom, believe it or not,

but the person who's experiencing it.

This is just not something within his emotional control.

We, the jury, in the above titled case,

find the defendant not guilty of a lewd act

upon a minor child.

Michael Jackson will be walking

out of this courtroom a free man.

I loved Micheal.

Michael loved me.

This was something that happened between us, that's it.

Didn't bother me.

I'm okay, I'm fine.

It'd be a big deal to everyone else,

but it's not a big deal to me.

So it's not worth the trouble.

A child sexual abuse victim is not gonna come forward

and say what happened until they're ready.

So, you fast forward after the Santa Barbara investigation.

Wade gets married, he has a child,

and it's a boy and as we've seen many times

with child sexual abuse litigation,

oftentimes, someone will have a triggering event

that will cause the light to go off

and for them to start understanding that what happened

to them as a child was not right.

And it wasn't loving and it wasn't normal.

It was abuse and it was wrong.

Mr. Jackson couldn't have done what he did without help.

The help of employees, the help of colleagues

and help of others.

If somebody reported it, that's different.

Nobody reported this.

Nobody did anything except let him do it.

This is about getting at the truth

and making sure this never happens

to another little boy because somebody

happens to be famous.

A judge has dismissed the lawsuit

brought by a choreographer who alleged

Michael Jackson molested him as a child.

Safechuck and Robson both sued

the Jackson estate but their lawsuits were dismissed

because of the statute of limitations.

The first round of the court case was thrown out.

Ya know, it was too late.

That was the defence, that it was too late

for myself and James to, whatever happened,

to come forward with this truth now.

Time's up.

Having our court case thrown away,

that was really difficult to go through and that

was hard to come back from.

Was just depressed and I started drinking more.

It really hurt.

Ya know, these are personal experiences that I went through.

This is my childhood and so, ya know,

it means a lot to me to be able

to go to court and to be able to fight back

for myself and for little James and so,

it was really heartbreaking to have it thrown out.

I have no experience with how things work

in the legal system, so it never occurred to me that

seven years later,

we'd still be prior to the beginning of anything.

It's never ending.

It's never ending

until it ends.

We've gotta fight it.

We've gotta continue fighting

until they say you can't fight anymore

'cause that's what we're hired to do.

That's the way you really help victims.

Premiering today at the Sundance Film Festival,

Leaving Neverland.

It's sparking conversation and strong opinions nationwide.

Police prep for demonstrators and possible threats.

Jackson family statement going on to say,

"The facts don't lie, people do."

The movie coming out was like

the thing I was most afraid of.

Michael always said ya know,

your life would be over if people knew.

So, we were like this married couple

and I say married because we had this

mock wedding ceremony.

It's like we're bonded forever.

It felt good.

And the ring is nice.

Going through that and having everybody know

in such a public way was difficult for me.

It was just a really crazy feeling to be seeing the film.

Here I am sitting in a movie theatre

with all of these strangers watching

some of the most intimate details of my life.

I felt special.

I was this boy from the other side of the world

and Michael chose me.

Yeah, there's no question I was like head over heels

in love with Michael

and he said he loved me.

And then they call us up, James and I, on stage

where I'm readying myself to be attacked.

I had a guy stick his hand down my pants

when I was at scout and I went through

people not believing me and I think the three of you

and everybody behind this film are gonna do

a lot more good in the world

than Michael fucking Jackson ever did.

And here I was having just this immense experience

of incredible support.

This movie and your story

will soon help change the law in this country.

Let my stand support that very much.

Watching this documentary was an intense

and very emotional experience for many people here.

It's an audience of over 100 men and women here

who say that they were sexually abused as children.

I felt like she really personally understood

and has had ya know,

some version of that experience herself.

I taped 217 episodes on sexual abuse.

You were able to illustrate in these four hours

what I tried to explain in 217.

I tried and tried and tried to get the message across

to people that sexual abuse was not just abuse,

it was also sexual seduction.

I had a light bulb moment and finally realised at 42

that it was not my fault.

She got what I and James had been through.

Ya know, getting to the point in life

where it was no long an option to keep it a secret.

The keeping of the secret did what to your life?

I don't know if I could continue

with the pain that I was in.

It's no way to live.

Up until whatever it was, six years ago or so,

ya know, I was going to take what truly happened

to my grave, no question.

That was the way it was.

She said, "We're all gonna get it."

I respected her knowingness of what kind of

backlash she was gonna come up against.

So, when all the fans and the estate

and all the anger, you guys are gonna get it.

You know that, right?

- We do. - Y'all gon' get it.

I'm gon' get it, we're all gon' get it.

It's frickin' terrifying.

Reactions of the whole world, angry Michael fans and media,

a certain amount of them can be extremely vicious.

I don't believe these mother fuckers.

I do not believe them.

So, the backlash is very, very real

on social media by many of the most loyal

Michael Jackson fans.

Many just refuse to watch and again,

question the credibility and the motives

of Robson and Safechuck.

I don't believe a word of anything in this documentary.

- Okay, okay, okay Wendy. - Come on.

I do believe sleepovers in the same bed.

I do believe that if mother nature takes its course

and they, ya know, you get a hard penis.

I don't believe touching and I don't believe sex

and I do believe that this is a money grab for the families.

The Jackson estate is pushing back

saying both men testified on behalf of Jackson

during earlier trials that unsuccessfully sued his estate.

Why do you think they're coming forward now?

Money.

You think it's all about money?

Well, it's all about money.

It's always been about money.

This is all about greed and money.

It was always about the money.

It was always about the money!

Go down the rabbit hole and do some actual homework

on this case.

As MJ fans, we were, we have become lawyers and attorneys.

We, when Michael passed and Connor and Murray

was on trial, we were all doctors.

Like, we do our research.

I believe Michael Jackson is innocent, I do.

I've followed the evidence.

There is no evidence.

Then you got Oprah who comes in and is like,

"Hells yes, I'm yep,

I'm a snake who will turn anybody."

Suddenly you're all like ch-ch-ch-ch-ch.

Are you prepared for that?

You're not.

There's a lot.

I have notes just 'cause I don't wanna mess up

some of the stuff.

I have it all here.

We can go through it together.

We got the email here.

I mean, my history of covering things

and just my belief that we're all innocent

until proven guilty really pushed me to wanna,

to challenge what they were saying because

yeah, it's easy to watch Wade and James and think,

well, my God, this is horrific!

We have to listen to what they're saying.

But they've changed this case so many damn times

to talk about the,

what is it, the handle of the,

hold on, I'm gonna get this right.

These two have changed this case so many times

to really focus on the duty of care

because they're so, it's so imperative that

they get this case right against the estate.

Michael is gone!

Like, he can't even defend himself.

You waited this long and now you're going after the estate

saying they're the biggest paedophile ring in the world?

Michael Jackson had 22,000 kids at Neverland every year.

That's a lot of damn kids.

You're telling me these are the only two

that after all this time, have had the nerve

to come forward?

I don't, I don't buy it.

I think these two are financially motivated

and I think you are.

So you had a documentary done in complete secrecy

'cause they didn't want any other narrative.

You had accusations from two men

who had a financial interest in the outcome.

And from two men who had previously testified

under perjury exactly the opposite

of what they said in the documentary.

Now, on top of that, the fans and press overseas

in England and even in Moscow

have begun to point out numerous inconsistencies

and flat out lies it contained in the documentary.

And yet, because the laws of defamation are what they are,

there's nothing you can do or say.

The man can be damaged.

His legacy can be damaged.

His kids can be hurt and theoretically,

nothing can be done.

I watched the special and then I called my friends

and we talked about it.

And then, we came to the agreement, you know,

we don't believe that we heard.

James' story, I think he was just piggybacking off and Wade,

I think Wade was the storyteller.

Ya know, the way his mannerisms and the way he was talking

and things like that.

I think he was just following suit.

But then, I don't know if there was stuff that was cut out

that wasn't aired but there were no like

real specific details.

Ya know, it was more generalisation, ya know?

You mean the sexual acts?

Correct.

Ya know, the touching of the penis and you know,

all that stuff but...

That wasn't detailed enough for you.

No, not to me, no.

Well, I know that they spent time

and they may have been naked with Michael in a bed

or things like that but,

the touching part, I don't,

I just can't picture it in my head, like,

and I've tried ya know, to see Michael being inappropriate.

I can't see Michael Jackson having

sexual relations with anyone.

Male, female, boy, girl.

It's unfortunate that there are a number of accusations

and that's always just unfortunate for anybody.

And it is possible that he was telling the truth but,

the optics weren't great,

especially after 1993 and I think it was his ex-wife,

Lisa Marie Presley, that said in an interview or two,

that he was a little rebel.

The more people would tell him not to do something,

the more he'd be like, "I'm gonna do it anyway."

It's possible that it could've been innocent

and it just could've been you know,

he could've thought of them like either one of his children

or like a brother.

Quite frankly and I'm revealing my bias here, admittedly,

I really didn't want it to be true.

And I know that doesn't make it such but,

just like please, let this not be true.

I was a huge fan!

Completely huge fan of Michael Jackson!

You couldn't be a fan.

There was like, something was wrong with you

if you didn't dig Michael Jackson.

Leaving Neverland really made me go back

and review everything and I dug around

and I didn't like what I saw.

I had an aha moment and it drove me nuts.

I couldn't let it go.

I seriously couldn't let it go.

After you dig around and really look at certain items,

you start saying like Wade and James were

completely credible.

What Oprah did was heroic in my eyes

'cause she gave them a opportunity to speak

and she supported them.

She's somebody who takes abuse seriously.

We know that happens.

We know it happens.

What's the difference here?

Because he can do the moonwalk?

Because he can make good music?

'Cause he can make anything into a hit?

Two things can be true.

So yeah, I completely believe both of them.

You're fightin' the world.

The entire world.

Everyone's against you.

Ya know, everyone loved this person.

They know his music, they know who he was

and he didn't have a childhood

and ya know, that whole story.

And he's beloved and he was such a great person

because he's got these photo opps

where he's helping cancer patients or something

and that's what he did every day.

They don't understand the way abusers work.

Sexual abusers, especially the most prolific ones,

they're not stupid people.

They're incredibly intelligent.

They're incredibly manipulative.

And that's why they're able to do this for so long,

for decades sometimes.

Right in front of the public's eye.

New tonight, Governor Gavin Newsome signed a new law

giving child sexual assault victims more time

to file lawsuits.

The goal is to make it easier for victims

to hand justice.

Kind of as Leaving Neverland was being released

and everything that happened with the me too movement,

there was this kinda major societal shift

around sexual abuse, sexual assault,

accountability for that.

That's yeah, statute of limitations ended up changing.

You know, divine timing as we were sort of on appeal.

So, that played a big role in us being able to

head back towards court.

The court of appeal reversed

the trial court decision we won.

And we're back in court with yet another judge

litigating the case.

Good morning, Howard Weitzman,

on behalf of the fans, Judge.

Good morning, Mr. Weitzman.

I think the other side will say anything they can

to prevent them from getting their day in court.

Let's be clear.

They're not sending a message to Wade and James.

They're sending a message to all the other people

they know are out there that he did this to

to shut the fuck up.

That's the message.

Shut the fuck up or you're gonna get this.

So, let's move onto Mr. Safechuck

and here, we need to reset, Mr. Weitzman,

your demur, is that correct?

This message, I do, yes.

Just one moment and I'll get you.

Tail up!

Mommy help you dig?

No, I'm digging!

Well, I'm gonna hold it over there.

No, no, no!

Tomorrow, we're going to the courthouse

and they're gonna rule on a few points in my case

and just been getting mentally ready

to go down there and

preparing for the worst, I think,

so that I can be prepared.

Been a little depressed today.

I have been here before, yeah,

seems like many times.

So, it's draining to go through this

over and over again.

So here's another, another step.

I didn't sleep last night.

I slept like one hour.

And there's kind of a shock.

So, this is the defendant's,

MJJ Ventures and MJJ Productions demur.

A demur is, I describe it as a legal so what.

Essentially the argument is, even if you assume

everything in the allegations or the complaint are true,

that he molested him, that they knew, all that stuff,

so what?

We still can't proceed because of the law.

This is the defendant's,

MJJ Ventures and MJJ Productions, demur.

So, I would like them to have an opportunity to

address the courts, tentative law in first.

Certainly your honour.

This is Mr. Steinsapir.

What they're alleging is that Michael Jackson

was a paedophile, that he was an evil,

he was a criminally deviant person.

Those are the allegations in the complaint.

That's not negligence.

I don't see how you can say a company that is created

by Michael Jackson for the purpose of

managing Michael Jackson's business affairs

had any sort of negligence based duty

to not hire Michael Jackson.

So, I've read the tentative ruling,

the court's analysis and I think there's just a

fundamental disagreement between the parties

and plaintiff and the court's analysis.

So, why am I wrong as to those two

fundamental principles?

The court has questioned whether there can

potentially be more facts.

The facts, the relevant facts, the important facts

have been pled.

They're in the complaint.

We've been arguing these issues for years

and we just have a difference of opinion.

We're probably never going to agree on it.

Ya know, this corporation was taking

custody and control of kids.

It had a duty to protect them.

That's the law in the state of California.

It's always been the law in the state of California

and it doesn't matter if it's owned by

a famous musician.

I'm not gonna rule on this today.

I mean, I need to take the time to go

back through everything again

and I obviously will let you know as soon as

I have a ruling on it.

Thank you, your honour.

All right, thank you.

All right.

The court will have to make a decision

whether if someone's the sole shareholder of a corporation,

he can use the corporation to sexually abuse kids

and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't know when it will end.

Having been in it for so many years, it's gruelling.

I'm looking forward to just letting it go.

Like I just, I just wanna forget.

This is not only about this one case, as we see.

There's all kinds of abuse that's happened

in the entertainment industry.

And the laws that are being created by the legislature,

by the appellate courts and the supreme courts,

is gonna shape the ways that these kids

were being victimised.

Now, they can hold their abusers accountable.

So, although James' case may have been a loss

in the lower court,

there's a very good chance we can turn it around

to a very big win, not only for him,

but for kids all across this state

and that's our goal.

Morning, your honour.

Vince Finaldi for the plaintiff, Wade Robson.

Morning Mr. Finaldi.

Good morning, your honour.

Jonathan Steinsapir and Kinsella Weitzman for the defendant.

Good morning to both of you.

The court has concluded that despite the evidence

that's been submitted of the, if true,

horrible acts that were committed against your client

and Mr. Safechuck, court has concluded that,

as a matter of law, the corporate entities,

based upon their structure and control

or lack of control over Michael Jackson,

made it impossible for the court to even find

a issue of fact as to where this case

should proceed to trial.

We have read the tentative ruling

and if allowed to stand, this decision would set

a dangerous precedent that would leave

thousands of children vulnerable to sexual abuse

by persons in places of power within corporations

conducting business within the state of California.

And the only thing I'll say in response

to Mr. Finaldi is this court's decision doesn't

open the door to endangering thousands of children.

This is a very unique factual situation

where the alleged perpetrator of the sexual abuse

passed away.

I understand the issue as well, your honour.

I've practised in this area for 18 years, my entire career,

and I completely disagree.

Okay.

So, the court's tentative will be its

final ruling in this case.

Judgement is entered for the defendants.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Court will be in recess.

It's just a misreading of the applicable law

and completely contorting it in order to come

to this decision, which was just flat wrong.

This fight's long from over.

We go back to the court of appeal

and we'll see what the court of appeal

has to say about it.

This is not right.

Ya know, just because you're the sole owner

of a corporation doesn't mean that you can set up

the corporation in a manner that allows you

to sexually abuse kids throughout this state

and throughout the country without liability.

That's not the way it works

and if it is the way it works,

then we're gonna do something to change it.

The last time that it got thrown out,

the defence was whether he did it or not,

we couldn't control it.

He did whatever he wanted

'cause he's the only one who owned the company

and the only shareholder.

So, companies can not hold any responsibility.

The trial court judge agreed with that

and threw it outta court based upon that.

Right now, we're at a point where we've received a tentative

ruling that, from the appeals court,

that it's going to get another chance.

My colleagues today are Justice Elizabeth Grimes,

Justice John Shepard Wiley, Jr.

and Justice Victor Viramontes.

Today's the oral argument.

We have a chance to go and argue

any additional points you want to address

from the tentative ruling.

A tentative opinion is kind of the,

the idea of where the court is going.

So it's not final, but it's a draught opinion.

The three justices are on top

and then there's myself and the attorney

representing MJJ Corporations.

Miss Boyer, do you wish to reserve any time for rebuttal?

Good morning, your honours.

Yes, we agree with the court's tentative ruling,

so we would like to therefore reserve

all our time for rebuttal.

Very good, I was hoping you'd say that.

So, Mr. Steinsapir?

Correct.

Shall I begin?

Yes, please.

The Jackson team don't agree that they had

any duty whatsoever to protect these kids

and they liken the abuse to a child drowning in a pool

and someone walking by and having no duty to do anything.

You just stand there and watched a child die?

Corporations say that these are quote,

"idiosyncratic circumstances," end quote.

And perhaps they are.

It would be perverse to find no duty

based upon the corporate defendant having

only one shareholder.

And so, we reverse the judgments

entered for the corporations.

I agree it's perverse!

I think it's strong wording and it's appropriate.

Who cares if one person owns it or 100 people

own the corporation?

If the corporation facilitates abuse of children,

especially children who are employed by the corporation,

to help it make money, then the corporation

should be held liable.

Period.

The ruling that was written

by the three appellate judges

was so powerful.

Judges are standing up for me

and standing up for what happened to us.

Ya know, I never expected a legal document like that

to be emotional.

Standing up for all children

was how this ruling felt to me.

The 10 years of battling for it has made me

more appreciative and grateful for the fact that

we're able to even go forward.

I don't know if excited is the right word,

but I'm like, embracing it,

because it's been so difficult to just

be able to go forward.

One of the unfortunate circumstances of these cases

is that they're incredibly dark.

They're incredibly difficult especially when you

really care about your clients and what you're doing.

Generally speaking, I lose one client a year,

sometimes two, to suicide or to the ill effects

that come from abuse.

Alcoholism, drug use.

So, you extrapolate that out through a 20 year career

and I get to deal with, ya know,

the ghosts of at least 20 to 30 clients

that I think about all the time.

Dealing with these dark issues,

they take a toll on you.

They take a toll on your family.

Till you get to some point where ya need to do something

to change that.

I am going to be retiring out of this line of work.

They're gonna be in great hands

with some very good trial lawyers in Los Angeles

who are gonna be taking this case

from this point forward.

I only take cases that I think I can win.

And I'm fully invested and I'm looking forward

to this trial.

My position is we just sit down,

get it done, and we'll take these depositions

and we'll go to trial and that's what we want.

They want the trial never to come.

It's typical in these types of cases where

if the plaintiff wants closure, that's our goal

is to get this case done.

Their goal is to delay the case.

They seek delay, we seek justice.

They wanna make money on their movies.

They wanna make money on their Broadway shows.

They wanna make money in their music.

That's Michael Jackson's corporations job.

Now that Michael Jackson is dead,

but what remains is Michael Jackson's corporation,

their sole duty and obligation and reason to live

and exist is the making of money

on Michael Jackson's music

and the truth of what Michael Jackson did

is very inconvenient.

The more delay they have, the more money they make.

But as soon as they have to own up

and reconcile the truth of what Michael did,

it's gonna decrease their revenues, for sure.

I know so much more than I can tell you.

I know what Michael Jackson did.

Part of me is like kind of building up this

strength and this shield to go through it,

imagining myself in trial, in the seat,

finding the strength and fighting for little Jimmy.

When it comes, I'll be ready.

Whatever's the final outcome,

I don't really see how I lose.

If I get the opportunity to get back in there

and get on the stand and tell the truth

like I wasn't able to for decades,

that's a win for me.