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Durham Police this morning
are investigating the death

of a prominent city resident.

The officers were called
early this morning to the home

of Nortel executive Kathleen Peterson,

who was found dead
in her Forest Hills mansion,

after apparently falling down the stairs.

Kathleen Peterson's husband
is novelist Michael Peterson,

well known for his books
on the Vietnam War.

He is also a former columnist
for the Durham Herald Sun,

and ran an unsuccessful
mayoral campaign in 1999.

Durham Police have refused additional
comment on the death.

Kathleen and I were in here
watching a movie.

I had gone to Blockbusters
and rented a video,

and we were watching
American Sweethearts,

and I think it was probably
around 11 o'clock

that the movie ended

and we took our glasses,
left the dinner plates,

as a matter of fact, on there.

We would clean up the next day.
Went into the kitchen.

We would talk for hours.
Kathleen and I, at nighttime,

would talk two, three hours.
Talk about the movie, or...

the kids or what we were going to do,

and we came in here.

I think there was...

I'm not sure.
We probably had another bottle.

I know we were drinking
two bottles that night.

It was a nice night.

I guess it was 55, 60 degrees.
Very nice night.

Uh... and I had gone outside,

and we were talking here...

for...

a fair amount of time.

And then what we would usually do
on a nice night,

we would go down to the pool,

which I always, you know, think is
about the nicest place on the property.

I don't know if the chairs were
like this or not,

but I mean, they were
probably something like this,

and she was... We were both right here.

You know, the dogs would come over,

and we were just talking,

and finishing our drinks.

And then she said, "I got to go in,

because I've got the conference call
in the morning."

And she started walking out that way,

and I stayed right here.

Don't think I said
anything special to her.

Certainly not thinking this was
the last time I'm going to see her.

I said good night,
and I'll be up a little bit later,

and I stayed here, and she walked...

And the last I saw her was...

when I was sitting there,
and she was just...

walking, walking here.

That's it. That was the last
I saw Kathleen.

Alive. No.

She was alive when I found her, but...

barely.

Durham 9-1-1, what is your emergency?

- 1810 Cedar Street, please!
- What's wrong?

My wife's had an accident.
She's still breathing.

- What kind of accident?
- She fell down the stairs.

- She's still breathing. Please come.
- Is she conscious?

- What?
- Is she conscious?

No, she's not conscious. Please!

- How many stairs did she fall down?
- What? Huh?

- How many stairs?
- The back stairs!

How many stairs?

Calm down, sir.

- Calm down.
- 15, 20. I don't know.

Please! Get somebody here right away!

Okay, somebody's dispatching the ambulance
while I ask you questions.

It's off of, uh... It's in Forest Hills.

Okay? Please, please!

It was just such a shock

when I drove into the driveway.

Seeing ambulances,
just like, "Oh my God.

Did somebody have a heart attack?"
Never in your wildest dreams,

would you think of anything...
You wouldn't know what to think.

My first thought, of course,
was my dad had a heart attack.

He's a little older than Kathleen.

So when I ran in there,
and I saw my dad alive,

I was, quite honestly, a little relieved,
thinking, "Oh, phew."

And then he was able to mutter the word,

something along the lines of,

"Kathleen, Kathleen!
Oh, my God, this... this...

Oh, God, Kathleen."

And he was motioning
in the direction of the staircase.

Sir, somebody else
is dispatching the ambulance.

Okay, is she awake now?

Hello?

Hello?

Oh, God.

I can vividly remember finding Kathleen,

I can remember opening the door.
I can remember calling 9-1-1.

I can remember...
I particularly remember

Todd just...

holding me as tight as possible,
I think to contain me,

and I can remember Heather,

the doctor, Ben's girlfriend,

taking my pulse.

And then I can remember,
and it must have been very early,

while I was still in the kitchen,

that a cop was on me instantly,
everywhere I went,

a policeman was there.

I went outside with Ben,

and a policeman was there,
and I remember walking down there,

and a policeman was there.
There was always a policeman with me.

I knew for a fact that

no way in this world my father
ever would have hurt Kathleen.

But...

the realism of their investigating it
did seem real.

While it was completely unfounded
in my mind,

the way that they were behaving,

the way that they were barking
orders at us,

restricting us from talking
to one another,

they truly drove home the point that they
were investigating this as a crime.

We came up Sycamore,

and you come up,
and it kind of dead ends into our house,

and you just see the yellow tape
across the whole house,

and it was horrible.
It's like, our house.

You want to go home,
the yellow tape is right there,

and you can't go home and...

It was the worst thing
in the world and then, um...

I remember Dad
actually explaining it to us,

and he was just like,
he was in shock, kind of,

and he was kind of shaking,
and he was like, "I didn't do it."

You know, "You have to believe me."

We're like,
"Dad, we believe you," you know?

"This is horrible, like, how can we not
believe you," you know? It's...

We didn't even know any details yet

and we were just like, "We believe you.
We know it's not true,

and this is horrible,"
and it was just so upsetting.

I couldn't believe it, but it was
so hard to think about that,

because at the same time,

we were thinking about
our mother, you know? And...

it was... It was like two bombshells,
I guess, hitting us.

When I first entered the house,

I noticed...

what appeared to be two legs,

just kinda sticking out of a doorway
or hallway to my left,

and once I approached the victim,

there was just a...

very...

abundant amount of blood

on her, on the floor, on the walls,

that just was not...

consistent with somebody
falling down the steps.

Well, obviously we can't know
exactly what happened.

We have to piece together
what we believe happened,

based on the circumstantial evidence
that we've uncovered.

The only people that know are
Mike Peterson and Kathleen Peterson,

and obviously, Mr. Peterson's not going to
enlighten us about what he knows.

We believe the evidence,
at least our evidence, is gonna show

that she was beaten,
that she was stunned,

and was bleeding,

that she probably recovered,

and had... And struggled,

in the door frame
with Mike Peterson to a degree,

and that he then had to bludgeon her...

on multiple occasions after that,
and that she basically bled to death.

Live, local, up to the minute.
This is ABC 11 Eyewitness News at six.

Michael Peterson's supporters
can't believe he's charged

with the murder of his wife, Kathleen.

Kathleen was my life.

I whispered her name
in my heart 1,000 times.

She is there,

but I can't stop crying.

But a special grand jury
decided today

there was sufficient evidence
gathered by police

to warrant a trial in this case.

First-degree murder.

Now, 11 days after
frantically calling 9-1-1,

seeking help for his wife,

Michael Peterson must spend the night
inside the Durham County Jail.

My mother and Mike had
an absolutely loving relationship,

and there is no way that either of them

would ever wish any sort of harm
on the other one.

Kathleen Peterson's
biological daughter, Caitlin Atwater,

served as the main spokesperson
for the Peterson family.

She stood shoulder-to-shoulder
with Peterson's biological sons

and their sisters, adopted
by Kathleen and Mike Peterson.

This is going to be the most
unbelievably heartbreaking Christmas

we could ever imagine.

We've already lost one mother,
now the state has taken away our father.

In my mind, you know,

if Mike finds Kathleen
at the bottom of the stairs,

it's a reasonable assumption on his part
that she fell down the stairs.

Peterson's attorney, David Rudolph,

says the authorities seemed to have jumped
to conclusions about Kathleen's death.

For us, if in fact the police are right,
that this was not a fall,

that should be the beginning
of the investigation,

not the end of the investigation.

So far...

you know, what I've been saying
to the Press, basically, is...

we think it's an accident,

but until our experts look at it,

we really can't say
whether it's an accident or an intruder.

What we know for sure is it has
nothing to do with Michael.

The benefits of the Intruder theory
is it's simpler.

There's no debate over the forensics,
for the most part.

The real problem with the Intruder theory
is lack of evidence that there was one.

The intruder would then have to have
a weapon with them,

capable inflicting these wounds,
but not a knife or a gun...

- and take that weapon with them.
- Right.

Mike clearly came
and reacted to the scene.

- Right.
- What we don't really seem to have

is shoe prints leaving the scene

that an intruder clearly wanted to get
the hell out of there

It seems to me what the intruder versus
accident theory really boils down to is...

what caused the lacerations on the head?

I agree.

I mean, injuries itself, to me,

they're just not a rage type injuries
in comparison to...

With a rage, you'd have skull fractures.

You'd have not only that.

You'd have a lot of major lacerations
in her face.

You know, I've never met anybody
that just stood still

and waited to be hit on the head
four times or seven times.

She'd have to stand still
and let the back of her head

get beaten by an intruder without
moving around.

It would be bizarre.

Everything that I've heard about Kathleen
and learned about her

is she is a very feisty woman,

and there's no way that she's going
to allow anybody...

to beat her up without fighting back,

and there are no signs whatsoever
that she fought back.

I just don't see a crime of rage.

In all the experience I have,
it's just not there.

Hey.

- Ron Guerette.
- David Perlmutt.

- How are you doing? Good to see you.
- Come on in.

All right, thank you.

You have breakfast already?

Would you like some bagels
or orange juice?

No. Where's the coffee?

- You didn't make any?
- Coffee's not made.

Oh, well, that's all right.

Is this the book here?

Yeah, that's the book
that Mike and I co-wrote.

Charlie Two Shoes
and the Marines of Love Company.

Yep.

- Came out in the late 1998.
- Ninety-eight?

My understanding is the last time
that you spoke with Kathleen

was a couple days before her death.
Tell me about that.

It was really the night before.
Essentially, the night before.

It was on the seventh
of December, a Friday.

Friday evening,
I had spoken with Stratton Leopold,

who is a producer in Hollywood,

and he... We had been
talking to him for about a year

about the possibility of him optioning
this book for a movie,

and he calls me that day, that afternoon,

and said that it was a done deal,
everything was official,

and so I called Mike just after that.

It was probably
about six o'clock that evening,

and Kathleen answered the phone,

and we spent maybe ten minutes
talking on the phone.

Now, that night, you spoke to her
about ten minutes.

Did you talk to Mike too that evening?

Yeah, she must have been talking
in the kitchen,

uh...

because I said,
"Well, is the old man there?" Mike was...

Kathleen and I are the same age,
and Mike was about ten years older,

and she said, "Yeah, the old man is here,

but he's going to have to empty the dryer
and mop the kitchen floor

before he comes to talk."

They always had a very playful way
with each other,

and I could hear him chuckling
in the background.

Did you hear any...

I mean, did there appear to be
any pressure between each other?

Frustration, anything like that,
between Mike and Kathleen on this night?

They were absolutely normal.

They were...

They were like I always saw them
or heard them.

As I said, they were playful.

I heard...

I sensed no stress
or tension between them.

Just absolutely normal.

And that's why it's such
a stretch to think

that they went from this normal,

playful, back and forth
between each other to...

something that is homicidal.

It just makes absolutely no sense to me.

It's inconceivable.

More autopsy photographs here.

That...

And it's impossible for me to believe,
if that's the back of her head,

that that could be caused from...

a series of...

missteps...

or fall down 15 flights...

I mean, 15 different stairs.

I just... I can't see that happening.

This is...

Nor could the medical examiner.

And that's...

from my perspective, an impossibility.

As Mike indicates,

the medical examiner doesn't believe
that it was possible, either.

That this had to occur from multiple
inflictions of blunt-force trauma.

And all that
with no skull fractures.

If they have a witness who can say
that she went down the stairs

like a pogo stick, head-first...

GREG MEAD
ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY

...bouncing along, that might fit,

but somehow, I don't think that's
the way people fall down stairs.

From my experience as an investigator
and law enforcement officer,

it was just not consistent
with a fall down a flight of steps,

and that's why I moved out

and went to obtain an application
for a search warrant so quick.

You can't look at that
and think that it's an accident.

And especially when you couple it
with the fact that the first...

I guess you've heard the 9-1-1 tape,

but the first call in,
she's supposedly still breathing.

Second call in, 15 minutes later or so,
she's just quit breathing.

And yet, when the medical examiners
or the EMTs arrived,

the blood was so dry,
that they didn't even get any on them.

They didn't have to wear
protective garments,

because the blood was already dry.
She'd been there for hours, probably.

It just never occurred to Michael Peterson

that people wouldn't believe him
when he said she fell down the stairs.

That's really what this is all about.

He thought he'd get away with it.

Live, local,
up to the minute.

This is ABC 11 Eyewitness News at six.

Sir, quit being smart
and answer the dadgum question.

In an occasionally tense
bond hearing today,

Mike Peterson's son Todd verbally scuffled
with the judge and District Attorney.

With shackled ankles and often
with tears streaming down his face,

Mike Peterson sat by, emotionally
listening to character witnesses

before the judge agreed
to let him go on $850,000 bond.

Peterson left the Durham County Jail
just after 6:00 p.m.

I really want to go home.
I wanna see my kids,

and this is the first opportunity
I've had now, to grieve for my wife,

and I really would like to have that time.

While his lawyers now turn
to the facts of the case,

Peterson turns to his remaining family,

glancing at his first glimpse
of sky outside the jail,

chased by cameras. Even back at home,

where friends arrived with groceries,
Mike Peterson won't have time alone.

It always seemed to me

that the greatest threat to our freedoms

came not from people
whocommitted crimes,

but from...

the way the government
tends to respond to that,

and the way the government tends
to take on power for itself

almost as though there's a vacuum
that someone has to fill,

and the government's going to fill it.

And so, for me,

being in the role
of a criminal defense lawyer

is being in the role of a person
who can do at least a little bit

to hold back
some of the government excesses,

to make sure
that we don't lose our freedoms,

in an effort to protect them.

In Michael's case,

there is no doubt in my mind
that he is not guilty of this,

and so for me, being able
to help him establish his innocence

is really what is moving me at this point.

Let me ask a question.

In the experience that you've seen,
whether somebody was hit with something

versus falling on a blunt-type,
in a blunt-type contact,

are these very consistent,

or are there aberrations here?

I would tend to consider the lacerations

as second choice in my thought
of what occurred here.

The first choice is
the presence of the bruises,

not the presence of the lacerations.

The presence of the lacerations
is misleading.

Because you see a whole lot of lacerations
and you say, "Oh, my God!"

I did that too at the beginning.

I looked at that, and I think,
"Oh, my God, that is terrible!"

This is boom, boom, boom,
hit them on the head.

Right.

But when you keep looking at it,
then you see things you didn't see before.

That's why I keep telling people,
you know,

you should never look at a picture
just one time.

You look at it on Monday,
and then on Tuesday,

and then on Friday and then on Monday.

And every time you look at it,
you see new stuff.

Yeah.

And so...

When, at the beginning,
I thought this was an elongated object,

I think I've changed my mind on that.

That's reasonably consistent
with a flat object,

meaning hitting the ground,
because the curvature...

Round, flat object.

This wound here had to have been
at least two impacts.

This one here had to have been
at least one impact.

This area here
and this area here are split.

- Mm-hm.
- They did not make any contact at all.

- And the impact occurred here.
- Mm-hm.

And then it's like
when you take a watermelon

and you throw it on the ground,
you get tears in places

where it never touched the ground.

So we've got one impact here,

you've got one impact maybe here,
and you've got one here.

When you say several impacts,
are you talking about several times,

or could it be one point of contact?

Single contact at the same time.

Single, yeah.

Single occurrence,
three points of contact.

Right.

You take the watermelon
and you throw it on the ground,

and it's gonna be in a million pieces.

Okay, Werner here.

Faris, why don't you go in there?
You need to be up close.

That's the place that we found the body.

What we didn't notice is in
the moulding area,

you see the contact.

Faris, can you see that? And dripping.

That which is indicative
of a liquid source of blood coming down.

More so, we see some spatter
in this corner here,

which means active bleeding still.

The most interesting thing, we found
hair tissue material on this moulding.

See some damage on the moulding.

Yeah, there's some fiber there.

I checked all the ceiling area.

No cast-off pattern.

Generally, if somebody beat up somebody,
we see a cast-off pattern.

Sure.

And here, it's not.

So, however, if this weapon
is too confined in place,

very small place...

It would be very hard to...

It would be hard
to have that energy level.

Yeah.

How do you get your spatter coming up
this wall here kind of behind this...

Okay, here, it could be a possibility
of somebody coughing.

Ah.

So you're going to have a...

It's not inhaling, it's exhaling.

But if she's coughing up
pure blood, like here,

wouldn't she have either a fracture
of the base of the skull or an injury...

Maybe the blood comes from hair, face,
comes onto nose or mouth.

So it's all external?

Just the wet head sponge thing.

It's not from internal bleeding.

- It's external getting into the system.
- I understand.

What about...
I mean, it could be anything there.

- It was in this position.
- Not much higher.

Okay.

The autopsy photos are
items one, two, three, four, five, six,

seven, eight, nine, ten,
in terms of importance to the state.

And they're going to hit that really hard.

The power of those photos is,
you know, they're visceral.

I mean, you look at them, and you know,

you don't need expert testimony to say,
"Oh, she must have been beaten."

That's the thought that pops in your head.

Without explanation,
it's hard to imagine,

how does somebody fall down the steps
and end up with these kind of blows?

And you know,
I think that really needs to be addressed

in terms of you know finding out,
you know, what...

how do people, what do people
just think on their own?

Then putting out
the defense explanation of it.

Our experts are of the view
that she probably fell

and knocked herself out in a first fall.

And with lots of bleeding
coming from the head.

Where do they say she fell?

Probably on the second or third step
going up.

You can see it here.

This is where the stair turns,

and you can see
how narrow the steps are here.

Plus, you're going from the light,

a lighted hallway or a lighted kitchen,
and this is very dark.

There's no lighting immediately over this.

There's only a light
at the top of the stairs.

She had a .07 blood alcohol.

She's going from light to dark,

and you've got these stairs.

So Henry thinks she tripped
on one of these stairs here,

- and hit her head,
- Fell backwards?

fell backwards, and hit her head...

probably somewhere up here,

and then there's a little bit of blood
that looks like sort of...

her head slid down or something,

and then hit her head again.

She fell backwards,
hit her head against the doorframe...

Right, and then fell on the floor.

- Fell on the floor and hit her head again.
- Right.

- So you got two hits.
- That's what he thinks happened?

Yeah, and she's unconscious then,
bleeding on the floor

for some period of time,

and then she comes to
after some period of time,

and tries to get up and there's blood
on the bottom of her feet.

And you know, in order for there
to be blood on the bottom of her feet,

there needs to be a fair amount
of blood on the floor

because it's not just
a speck or two, it's...

- Right, it's completely coated?
- Right.

And that she then fell again.

You know, obviously,
if you're trying to get up in blood,

it's incredibly slippery.

And fell again.

Fell right there?

Right there.

Right.

Um...

Dave, we need to stop
doing this in front of him. This is...

If today's his birthday, it's not
the best day in the world to do it.

We really need to keep him out of this.

Okay. That's fine.

When I think of Kathleen,

what I remember,

unfortunately, is her dying in my arms.

That's always the overwhelming image.

If I look at something, I think, "Yeah,
God, there was this funny thing,"

or a picture on the refrigerator where
she is in the Imperial Gardens in Tokyo

or there's so many things that always,
if I stop and think,

not one thing comes up.
Never one thing.

Or I might think,
"Oh, that's a shining moment,"

and then I'll see a picture
of something else

or another incident might occur,
and I'll be like, "There's that one,"

so there's not one
identifying thing with Kathleen, no.

Um...

The first people we have
is Michael Peterson,

and...

Patty.

What year did they...

- What year were they married?
- They were married in 1966.

Do you know
if they got married in the States?

I think they're married in the States,
because after they were married,

Mike went to Vietnam,

Patty went to Germany,
she was a teacher in Germany.

So after Mike got out of Vietnam,

then he went to Germany.
While they were in Germany,

they had two sons, the oldest is Clayton.

And the next child was Todd.

So they had two boys of their marriage.

And both of the boys were born in Germany?

Both boys born in Germany,
and Clayton is the oldest one.

Okay.

Mike was a retired Marine captain,

and when he got to Germany,
one of his better friends...

was George Ratliff,
who was a captain in the Air Force.

And George...

Correction, Elizabeth worked
with Patty at the college.

They both taught at the same college,

and that's how Patty and Elizabeth
got together as good friends,

and then Mike and George,
both being captains,

became good friends.

After...

George and Liz were married,
they had two children.

Margaret is the oldest daughter,

and Martha the youngest.

Shortly after the birth of Martha,

George died in 1983
in an invasion in Grenada.

Two years after George died,

Liz dies in 1985 while living in Germany.

At this time the entire Peterson family

and the Ratliff family
are living in Germany.

During this period of time,
after George and Liz die,

After Liz dies,
Martha and Margaret move in

with Mike and Patty, Todd and Clayton,

because George and Elizabeth
in their wills, separate wills,

wanted Mike and Patty
to be the caretakers of their children.

Mike and Patty started having problems,

and Mike came back
to United States, in...

What year was it that he started...
That he met Kathleen?

- He met Kathleen in 1986.
- So he met her in 1986.

Kathleen had a daughter named Caitlin.

What year did...
When did they move in together?

That was in 1989.

And that's when Martha
and Margaret became...

one family under the same roof with Mike.

So Mike and Kathleen living together,
and they had the three girls,

and there was moving back and forth,

and eventually,
Todd and Clayton moved in

with Mike and Kathleen
in Durham, North Carolina.

So how old were each one of the kids
at the time of Kathleen's death in 2001?

Her daughter, Caitlin, was 19.

Margaret, the oldest, was 20.

The baby, Martha, was 18.

Clayton was 27,

and Todd was 25,

when Kathleen died.

- And that was in the year 2001?
- 2001.

After your mother died,
your real mother died...

- who took care of you?
- Um...

My dad right now, Michael Peterson
and his wife, Patty.

Your dad died
before your mother did, right?

Yes.

And you were probably still a baby
in your mother's womb,

weren't you not, at that time?
Or were you born?

No, I was about six months old.

Six months old?

How old were you and your mom died?

I was... 18.

Eighteen?

Months?

Oh, my birth mom. I'm sorry.

Your birth mom. I'm sorry.

I think I was...

- a little over a year.
- Okay.

So you have very little memory.

Yeah, the only memory I have
is what people have told me.

- So I don't have memories.
- Okay, and...

How did you start referring to Kathleen
when you moved in the house with her?

Well, we called her Kathleen
for a good while,

and...

I started calling her mom when...

I would say it was about, I was in...

a freshman in high school.

So about five years ago.

And that's when I started to,

because I realized
how much she was doing for us.

Tell me about the relationship
between Mike and Kathleen.

I mean, refer to them as Mom and Dad.
I don't want to discourage you in that,

now that we know
who you're talking about, you know?

Just tell me about the relationship
between your mom and dad.

Well, it was...

It was wonderful. I mean, they were...

so happy that last year.

They were just, I don't know, there was...

It was beautiful.
They were just really happy.

They loved each other. They...

didn't ever fight usually, and...

they just took so much joy
in other's presence.

I mean, we would laugh all the time.

They would just come home
and make dinner,

and you know,
drink some wine or something,

and it was just beautiful

because we would just end up
laughing the whole night,

and I would just talk to mom forever.

I don't know, it was really beautiful.

I never saw any problems.

Now, you say "usually."

- Did I?
- At one point, you did.

Did you ever see any...

any problems between the two of them?

Any... were there ever any discussions?

No, the only problems were,
Mom would get frustrated at Dad

for not coming home
from the gym on time,

and that was just because of dinner,
but that always ended with everybody...

Just, I mean that was the only problem,

but it was really such a small problem
that it was almost a joke.

Do you think
if there would have been any problems

between her and your dad,
that she would have...

maybe not necessarily
told you the problems,

but she would've let you know

that Mike was doing something
she doesn't appreciate?

Yeah. She definitely would have.

She was always straightforward with us.

I mean, if there was ever, like,
a problem in the family,

you know, between, like,
any of us, or between...

like, Martha and Dad, you know,

like, Dad hates Martha's haircut
or something, or her hair color.

You know, I mean,
we had family dinner every night,

so it was really hard not to bring that up
in conversation.

I mean... no.

Like, we were a very open family.

I always felt like I could
talk about anything,

and I know that Mom talked about
everything with us, too.

How about the relationship
between Kathleen and your dad?

It was always very strong. I was...

kind of jealous of it and happy for him,

because his relationship
with my mom had never been romantic

or intimate or anything like that,
you know, very platonic.

And to see him happy...

with a woman, with Kathleen,

the two of them were just
really good together.

They just connected on a different plane.

And...

was there ever a time
where your dad would get really,

really mad at you

to where he showed his temper,
or anything like that?

I mean that, to me, that'd have been
probably the worst time.

That wasn't, actually.

I mean, it might have been
for other things.

Lord knows, I've done stupid things.

Wrecked his car and things like that.

Did he ever hit you?

Yeah.

- You know.
- Spank you or hit you?

Um...

I guess mostly spanking.

You know, sometimes he'd crack
my brother's head together.

I mean, this is when we were younger.

I don't know.

Not really crack your heads,
just bang your heads together?

Yeah.

Have you ever seen your dad...

violent towards anybody?

Uh...

No, he disciplined us as children,
but that's...

parental discipline.

Has he ever hit you?

He spanked us
when we were children, but...

I don't have a friend who wasn't spanked.

As far as actual
aggressive behavior, never.

Never in his... to another...

I'll say, non-child of his,
meaning an adult, a partner...

a wife... nothing, nothing.

Even when he and my birth mother...

would have disagreements, nothing.

It was always my dad
to kind of chuckle and walk off.

He never, ever became aggressive
in the slightest sense.

Mike?

Probably about here.

- Around here?
- I'm guessing about here.

This would be very close to where we were.

Okay.

Yeah, because she came over,
she smoked cigarettes,

she threw the cigarettes out in there.

- There may have been another chair here.
- That's alright. Okay.

- But right about here.
- Okay, that's fine.

- Alright, that's all I need. Okay.
- This is close enough.

Tell Todd to hold off until we can get
the dogs out here, alright?

Slow down, slow down.

And you know to...

forward this play button,

and soon as you push it,
step back out of the way.

- I can stand in the kitchen if you like.
- Okay.

'Cause I want to have a human witness
in addition to the tape recording.

- Make sure everything else is closed up.
- Okay.

I can testify
that his doors are well-fitted.

You ready?

Hey! Help!
Somebody, help!

Help!

Somebody, anybody! Help me!

Help me! Please help me!

Help! Help!

Help!

Help me! Help!

Please, help me!

Help!

I need help! Anybody, help me!

Help! Somebody, please! Help me!

I need help!