Original subtitles

now on BBC 1 we travel to the southwest

of England to find that the Antics Road

show has made a stop this week in

toi wasn't surprise

that good morning a new day a new year a

new television

[Music]

[Applause]

station and on the conveyor belt tonight

a bamboo cane plant holder a vacuum

cleaner

take care on the RADS if you're out and

about this is the mag for men who should

know better but don't editor James Brown

was clever enough to figure this out so

James are you guys just a bunch of

drunken LS who got together to set up a

magazine and somehow quite accidentally

cracked yeah no more drunken than anyone

else loaded was the closest thing we

would have had then to a viral

phenomenon

loaded was a kind of Bible of that time

[Music]

really campaigners from lose the lad's

mags have been protesting across the

country today you're so aggressive is

that because somebody's pretty she's got

to be all cuddly and passive as well

[Music]

this will be the last interview I ever

do why would this be the last one hm why

would this be the last interview I was

so unwell at the weekend I thought I was

going to die seriously I went to the

doctor she gave me some steroids held my

hand for a

bit she said I'm really concerned about

you I think she was trying to get off

with

me that's a narcissist in

me right should we get going yeah okay

so let's just start at the

beginning England 19

1994 James and his gang committed the

highest

crime of getting men to read magazines

on

[Music]

M it's very hard for people to remember

what it was like pre-digital

magazines were just so intrinsically

important because there's no internet

can't imagine how important that is

right you've got a lot of times to fill

in the '90s

between stuff and magazines are what you

did a magazine was something you rolled

up put in your back pocket and took out

into the world because if you forgot to

take it with you you're like a lemon

sitting on the number three bus

like cuz there nothing else to do

magazines were your

internet the problem was for most men of

my age that there was nothing to read

you know nothing that actually you could

identify with they didn't say anything

to me about my life the only men's

magazines you could buy were like gqs

Square which were great if you wanted a

5 grand suit and you wanted to read

about somebody else being behind the

Velvet Rope you're stuck outside while

they were in there telling you how great

it

was GQ fashion would be for landed

gentry you'd see endless shots of

yuppies in ties and different color

shirts and colls and mountains of

champagne glasses pouring out

yuppi was a young upwardly mobile cly

orientated person they had money and the

rest of the country didn't they were

like the enemy nothing to do with my

life all the things I was into football

music drinking travel humor weren't in

any other

magazines I another one time really

important moment

Barcelona lead stutgart was a replayed

match because of of a technicality let's

go standing up and go we are lead and

let's

erup Le United they W and we were just

walking down the Ramblers and there was

loads of beautiful women everywhere and

there was music blaring out of all the

bars and we were getting nicely drunk

and having great

fun and then James just said there

should be a magazine like this and I

said what do you mean he goes this this

feeling I just thought this is it I'm

going to create a magazine for me and

for my

mates I loved growing up in the streets

and heading like they just listening to

T-Rex and

slay a lot of energy I was mouy swey

quite Lippy

and then uh the Yorkshire Ripper started

killing people where we

lived and uh his first victims were on

the place where I used to play table

tennis and that really affected my mom

my mom was really nervous and paranoid

about it and uh I was getting closer and

closer to the end of my school life

there was sort of less money at home you

know thater and the toys had been in

power so it it was a pretty Grim time

there weren't any opportunities the

country was

rotten the inner cities were

derel the fact that there were no job

opportunities meant you could just pick

a fantasy what do you want to do by the

time I was 79 year I just wanted to work

on magazines

so that was my first

fanine it's called Victory Comics cuz I

was reading

1984 it's just interviews with bands and

stuff some people just find what they're

good at and I was for some reason I was

quite good at

[Music]

it I was the lead singer in a band

called Lush in the '90s

the fanine scene at gigs loads of people

wrote fanes you couldn't leave a gig

without five six fan scenes under your

arm which is actually how I met James he

was a bit of an upstart that was quite

fun about him you know he was a little

bit

cocky but he was just quite a decent

bloke actually there was nothing

sexualizing in in James's way of dealing

with you at all

I didn't expect him to end up where he

did no get have you come this

way here are some people deliberating

about what goes on our cover I was the

features editor of the enemy at 22 it

changed my life enemy was well-known

media entity that people

loved we've got other ones and it

educated me in the ways of commercial

mainstream magazines what was the other

one we had be

by the time I was 26 they asked me if

I'd like to create my own magazine he

just set me off like a

[Music]

rocket I knew assembling the team was

the most important thing if you've got

99 straight guys on one weirdo it's the

weirdo that will change your business so

I used to say I was assembling 99

weirdos and one straight guy to get the

issue out

but it turned out the straight guy was a

[ __ ] Maniac anyway

Christian James said once Christan love

women so much that she became

[Music]

one I'm Kristen and my pronouns are she

her can't believe I'm talking about

pronouns with Team from

loaded Martin de look across between

Arnold Schwarz and a very bunter had

these kind of glasses with this big loaf

of blonde hair big grin some sort of

[ __ ] drunk German

general the only words James said the

entire she goes what clubs do you go

to I met James in a nightclub I came to

London with the intention of studying

English literature I sort of ended up

with a PhD in acid house

instead yeah you could call it a

professional operation or you could call

it a bunch of people in the back of a

four Transit van thinking about doing a

robbery it had that kind of energy to it

[Music]

already how did he come up with the

name I don't think anybody [ __ ] cares

watching this

documentary about o originated the

name Miranda Sawyer says she came up

with the name what LO did no she

didn't Miranda said she liked the name I

was in her bed

in a sunny morning in Brixton and we

were lying in bed arguing about blur and

whether there were mountains under the

sea and I was telling her the names that

we were researching and she said she

like loaded I would say I wasn't in bed

I would say we were in the

flat that's so funny such a

mythologize I don't remember things

exactly like James but you know that's

quite funny we had a kind of fling right

non-exclusive fun time that's what I

would say and James showed me um a

mockup of this new magazine he was

working on and he told me what was going

to be in it and I said you should call

it loaded James walked in one morning

went it's going to be called loaded

Miranda Sawyers had the idea we decided

it last night it's going to be called

loaded everyone's like yeah that's a

pretty good name for for a magazine okay

Primal scream had had this massive hit

with this kind of reinvented album

called screamer delicate and the big hit

from it just what is it that you want to

do there a track call loaded which

sample a scene from the film Wild Angels

We Want to Be Free to to do what we want

to do and we want to get

loaded so it means lots of things that's

why it's such a great title it means

being out of it it means money and it

means a gun it's got power it's got

energy it's got sex okay loaded you know

you're not GQ F hm still born AR

I's gone by don't mean anything there's

no action

we want to get loaded and we want to

have a good

time

1994 no one knew how to communicate with

young men in

particular and we said how about this do

you want a bit of this cuz we do class

is changing the Hooligans were in the

art galleries Damen Hurst so why is he

exhibiting a dead sheep we want to live

forever Gaza do you want to give on a

glass one against one me and you why not

you talk good game aaces were just

exploded people think you're argant

because you say what you say and it's

not just self-confident and if you can't

be self-confident then what can you be

they were just sort of cheeky and cocky

and lo was part of that you

know the Holy Grail in publishing is

launching a mainstream men's

magazine IPC was the biggest consumer

magazine Publishing House in Europe and

was dubbed the ministry of

magazines we presented the magazine to

IPC asking them to spend half a million

pound risk money on a

launch they weren't exactly a bunch of

fun BLS one of the the pages that was

was flashed up uh on the screen was how

to do the perfect [ __ ] the HR

Director woke up which is never a good

sign in these meetings because the smell

of blood had started to uh to drift into

his

nostrils the chairman looked at Linda

who was the managing director and uh he

said to her Linda do you find this

offensive and Linda was just laughing

and said no I think it's bloody

hilarious I moved my chips into James

Brown on the roulette table and thought

well he's worth a good

bet and it was either going to end

tragically or it would end being

brilliant

then we realized we had to make a

magazine and then thank God Christian

was there because basically otherwise

nothing would have happened my role was

to kick everybody's ass because we were

running so late can we do this can we

actually pull it off on time somewhere

near the budget it gone from being this

kind of very very wide ranging kind of

Pub conversation to like [ __ ] this is

this is real now it was really really

[ __ ]

exciting we finished the issue and uh

everybody was in the pub and I'm dancing

around the office to boys and girls by

blur had it on full blast James was

standing on tables air

guitaring and I remember thinking yeah

this is what this is

[Music]

and there it

is issue one I genuinely haven't looked

at this for 30 years so it's quite

surprise Gary Oldman still looks

incredibly cool for men who should know

better what's that Mr Simpson was the

head of year lwood my school and I can

remember him pulling my [ __ ] earring

out when I was sort of Punky kid in

1979 and he said you should know

[Music]

Brown what fresh lunacy is

this loaded as a new magazine dedicated

to life liberty and the pursuit of sex

drink football and less serious matters

loaded is for the man who believes he

can do anything if only he wasn't hung

over so we hope you enjoy it as Phil

linard so wisely said The Boys Are Back

In Town Boys Are Back In are back in

[Music]

back back the other one was unearthing

what who became the most famous

Sportsman in the world that was the very

first interview any magazine ever did

the Tiger Woods he was 17 years old the

next thing you knew I was out there we

were playing golf together and hanging

out was just unreal I just I'm Burke

from Birmingham you know and I'm doing

all these mad things in in the space of

like a week I was like what the hell

with snail and I yeah we were on withn I

think a lot of what we did is very much

wrapped up in withn and I which is to

say made each other laugh and went away

for the weekend those characters are

operating in the interlude before the

rest of their

lives I'm

[Music]

your they love

[Music]

it Alan says to me you've got everything

in this magazine that men like apart

from young women I said okay fine just

banged them in Tim interviewed the woman

nobody knew Liz Hurley was then she'd

done a few small films she wasn't known

she goes to the premere of Four Weddings

and a funeral with her boyfriend Hugh

Grant and she's got the Versace dress

naked up the side held together by pens

and that was it that she became famous

then you did have women in their

underwear from early on right did that

shoot one shot

oh blim me

hello well straight

away lady with her legs

open as a woman when you read this you

like I'm included I'm included oh am I

only included if I look like that oh am

I only included if my clothes are off

just it brings you up a little bit and

then you think okay now I'll get on with

the rest of it

it's after like a week of it being live

these two boys came up from the post

room in their post room polo shirts and

their post room complexions and dumped

two post bags I said what is it he said

that's your mail was just there was just

a mountain of probably about four 500

letters postcards started open them I

love this magazine there's never been

anything about it love the Gary Oldman

interview this mags me never seen

anything like this going to be buying

again can I where can I get the next

issue I remember Alan Lewis coming into

the office and saying it's sold out

which is very unusual I've never heard

that expression before in a magazine

office you might think that we kind of

knew we were in some kind of cultural

moment but you don't know you're in a

cultural moment when it's

happening Britain was changing in a

myriad ways we just reflected a change

that was happening in

society good evening official figures

show women are increasingly having it

all what's left for men new man reacted

by accommodating career woman a crash

course in nappy changing cookery and

where the cupboard was that the Hoover

was kept in and he play his part around

the house at the end of the the ' 80s

and the the start of the '90s there was

the uh the new man a kind of

responsibility for all men in their 20s

to reconstruct themselves into something

better than they were and that was based

on political correctness and what you

should be thinking and what you

shouldn't be saying and things like that

so loaded was a massive reaction to that

we basically threw a hand grenade into a

room full of new men and caused chaos

for the next 6 years and I'm proud of

that

the new lad doesn't know what all the

fuss is about or he's too pissed to

[Laughter]

notice you marry me

Dorothy what came to be called L culture

was a ground swell of popular culture

amongst workingclass people mainly men

I wrote a column for loaded IR on

transporting

Mees they're doing a Manchester

accent see what people have got to

understand is that we are Lads we have

burgled houses and nicked car stereos

and we like girls and we swear and we go

to the football and take the

piss my name is David B I am an

intellectual comedian but I've never

really wanted to be an intellectual I've

always wanted to be a lad me and Roby

were on the cover of uh City Limits here

come the new Lads but by the time you

get to here really cool people are Lads

right Gary Oldman and Eric Cantona and

Paul well these are very cool

people there was a redefin of the word

lad and therefore a redefinition of a

type of masculinity that had been

totally abhor beforehand

[Music]

I always wanted life to be very exciting

I didn't want to have a boring

life but I thought I was going to become

a priest in the Catholic

Church I'd been to Rome a few times and

met the pope and they were like you're a

really smart boy before you come to the

papal University in Rome see what's the

best university you can get to in

Britain and do and do Theology and I got

into Cambridge absolutely zero support

from my family my dad didn't want me to

go to university at

all uh my dad was a very difficult man

very um domineering I think the function

of having a very domineering not

particularly Pleasant father is that I

feel quite at home when someone's

shouting at me where the [ __ ] your

feature you're [ __ ] lazy is which is

basically what he would shout was

actually essentially exactly the same as

what my dad would shouted at me that

style of management which is very out of

fashion nowadays but was very much in

fashion in that period I wasn't always I

mean I think I was a great boss to work

for but I was also a [ __ ] nightmare

to I mean a deal with the staff they

were [ __ ] maniacs half of them I was

like Frankenstein and he was the

monster that's how I kind of pushed him

it felt strange leaving my University

friends and going on to loaded but I was

so Keen I remember that every time James

mentioned a feature I like I can do that

so I went into the office I remember it

like it was yesterday because it was a

turning point of my life James and Tim

were standing there by a filing cabinet

I'd like to go to can the film festival

I think it could be a good story I mean

brilliant

idea it was something

else can Film Festival is full

on I naively thought I'd be going to

film premieres and stuff I couldn't get

in to anything at

all starting to panic now already

[Music]

actually I started buying bottles of

wine that you could buy for the two or

three Franks as it was then let's go for

a nice bottle of red round there though

yeah quity is it and I just ploted up

and down through the can film festival

looking for some kind of

story but I'm just like an outsider in

Paradise eventually I met an amazing guy

ly calman from traa films who was a

producer and he said I've got a ticket

to the William Morris party upstairs why

didn't you take

that went up to this party and I'm

suddenly confronted with this palacial

room with like tables covered in food

and I'm not lying it's the first time in

my life I'd ever seen an open

bar right I love uh Jin and tonic a

large Scotch two glasses of champagne

and got stuck

in in there what all the stars that

William Morris represents and just with

a a little dictaphone you a tiny little

ter go Martin de loaded magazine Bruce

Willis walks past I I now we're [ __ ]

talking who's one of the biggest stars

in the world at the time I'm like

Bruce and then two gorillas come up

literally who the [ __ ] do you think you

are you're clearly holding four drinks

in your arm just get the [ __ ] out they

throw me out and Derek ridges the

photographer turns to me and has a very

laconic speech pattern Derek goes J know

I've never had any respect for people

who get drunk when they're meant to be

working I'm like I know Z shocking isn't

it absolutely shocking

the next morning the kind of massive

hangover anxiety kicks

in and I still think this is an absolute

[ __ ]

disaster I remember flying over the Alps

and genuinely thinking I just wish this

plane would crash into the Alps I can't

take this I finally got the job I wanted

I'm a writer on a magazine the

Magazine's being successful and they're

going to fire me and I [ __ ] up what

the [ __ ] am I going to do and I just

write the story from arriving in can to

leaving can then we did this then we did

that celebrities they'll do anything for

a bit of Fame bam give it in

go I just think well that's it I'm going

to get sacked i' I've totally blown

everything might walk into office on

Monday morning and James and Tim

like that feature is amazing it's

brilliant this is a you're no longer the

sub editor you're now the staff writer

you're amazing we just need more of this

stuff all the time and I'm like

okay don't question it Martin was very

good at writing about how things had

gone wrong the readers loved it because

it was a sort of situation they might

find them they weren't going to any VIP

pies if not much is happening more

things happen when you're drunk do you

know they just do so it was kind of part

of the Gonzo thing hress Thompson my

hero would regularly be completely

obliterated on far more exotic chemicals

than we had Gonzo journalism means that

the writer is part of the story that you

make the story what about Gonzo

journalism and you're right in the

middle of the action yourself which is

something which the ordinary newspaper

man or journalist is not he stands aside

I can only get into a story when I'm

right there which makes uh for a problem

sometimes it became how I did things but

you know everyone was drunk in the '90s

generally you know although we were

looked down upon by a slightly sneer

middle classy media um in the day male

Victoria Corin I mean the headline

Ladish loutish and frankly

loathsome people rightly deplore in this

country elements of what could be called

a yob culture well let's set ourselves

an objective to change it make a real

National effort to build an anti- yob

culture what is a yob really what he's

saying is that he doesn't like drunk

BLS really

we sort of became The Intruders really

at the banquet and when that happens

then I think it's very natural that you

do sort of turn inwards and so there was

a kind of [ __ ] Unice to it as well that

sort of permeated the kind of inner

sanctum it's being part of a gang and

that is

powerful I think when people look back

on the magazine they get fixated on its

relationship to women but the way that I

think about it now is it's about the

relationship between men and

particularly for me looking up to

men I sort of wanted to be friends with

James and I sort of wanted him to look

after me I suppose you

know feels like we were having a second

childhood this is a big family who are

pugnacious and talented and

argumentative and funny

[Music]

that I think was my desk yeah just

behind that table there yeah in the

corner and bear in mind we would be

smoking as well you know so it was like

a very different office culture from

what you might experience today like

somewhere between Mad Men and the back

room of a p

[Music]

really it was to do with just having a

laugh you know taking the Mickey out of

the establishment turning up seeing what

you can BL like having

fun if you're moving through the world

as a young white man then the humor and

the attitude and the approach to life is

always going to be that but I would say

a lot of women light loaded actually you

know there's a lot to like about

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

it Paula Yates once said to one of the

writers I know you guys you like

football and crisps your ideal date is

in bed with a beautiful woman eating

crisps and watching match of the day and

I read that and I thought yeah and mine

apart from switch the woman for a

soldier I moved to London to be Nearer

My football team which is Tottenham I

then got a job on 90 minutes football

magazine we were next door to loaded and

our entrance was through their office so

you couldn't avoid the

chaos loaded had this massive soul to it

everyone's hard work everyone's nonsense

everyone's genius just kind of came off

the pages like this

Vapor I think I hung around in their

office as much as I did mine probably a

bit more my editor would tell you to the

point of taking a cup of tea and a 50 P

piece to one of the loaded writers

Michel every Friday afternoon at about

3:00 in exchange for a

kiss you couldn't do that

now I think it made me feel rather

self-conscious but there are if there

are three things you shouldn't refuse in

life their money tea and kissing you

know so it was a compelling package yeah

I'm kind of an honorary bloke in the

things that I like doing if somebody

looked down my top as I'm cleaning a

Formula 1 car I didn't feel the need to

sue them or have counseling it was just

a

laugh I definitely felt like there was a

change in the air in the 9s for young

women this idea of you know what we can

relax let our hair down and Be Frisky

and

feminine now in the 90s let's actually

just enjoy every aspect of the lighter

things our vanity our ego our sexual

[Applause]

desire there was a sense that we had

defeated the Demons of sexism and racism

we've won those Wars so now we can joke

about those

things irony has to be always factored

in it's presenting something but it's

then with a ND the win saying we're not

[Music]

this uhoh we're in trouble something's

come along and it's our bubble yay it

was unloaded yay no wonder you wanted me

to come and talk to you okay all right

cute transmission Vamp

apparently what does that mean it means

um I'm some sort of Vixen televised into

your living room whether you like it or

not now for the first time on British

television haha we can present for you

synchronized condom flossing take it

away

boys I'd prefer 5 minutes of unbridled

filth anytime to 9 hourss of bump and

grind you know what I think I prefer 9

hours of bump and grind I've changed

I've developed since then while I didn't

get undressed physically I certainly got

undressed

verbally after the dawning of the lad

movement loaded was already in the

culture and I thought what's good for

the goose is good for the gander well

what's the girl equivalent of this

bining lad

culture so that's when I came up with

this idea of Ladette and here come the

girls and look at that a woman who is

confident control is second to n

empowered not apologetic we haven't even

kicked off and she

scored you could express your sexuality

and it was seen as a positive thing it

wasn't like

oh you're a bit Mucky follow me there

was this era of female fronted shows

like at my show pajama party and the

girly show

[Music]

wank the presenters were expressive and

liberated we're just doing what girls

have always done you know girls have

always gone out got drunk had a kebab

had a stupid snug that you've regretted

just like boys do you know and all we're

doing is just doing it on TV and men

have been sort of Behaving Badly and

doing it on TV for much longer than we

have you know the lightly Lads and

whatnot and we've never really had that

for women wom have always been quite

well behaved and sort of you know

squeaky clean well I'm sorry but I think

that's quite

[Music]

boring there was a sense of the culture

becoming a little bit more

unbuttoned you had artists like Tracy

Emmon I'm here I'm drunk had a good

night at my friends I'm leaving now it's

live but I don't care I don't give a

[ __ ] about it hi

Tracy you had artists like Sarah

Lucas or you can have a a pop group like

Spice Girls being a bunch of

cheerleaders for teenage girls like

there's all different

flavors I think you're oh thank you do

you want to join us on the sofa I think

it is not a for me so will be

we did the first feature on the Spice

Girls they weren't known at all then

they were like a new band so were the

Spice Girls quite loaded

totally young cocky ambitious they were

so like [ __ ] full on and full of

energy loaded impact was comparable to

the way punk Changed music it freed

everything up it showed people you could

have fun you could [ __ ] around with a

format and you can be true to your own

interests there's a lot of media that

was being influenced by

loading dessert with sheep's testicles

and Amy from Leicester had a bite but it

wasn't

[Music]

right

Poss you're on sparkling form this

morning there what's the difference

between John Major and 13 nuns on a stag

night right well

[Applause]

and all of that was new and I think

loaded was somehow we just seemed to get

there first and we didn't know this we

didn't know that we were holding the

keys to the to the country's kind of you

know internal

heartbeat you felt like a new era was

Dawning in the country and we were kind

of the House Magazine of that change

that sort of new labor thing was coming

the old labor party he was no friend of

the youth

particularly but they were clearly

different putting Tony Blair with a

football and Kevin Keegan together and

heading and then you've got John

Prescott decking a guy for throwing an

egg at

him BM you've got behavior that the

loaded readers would recognize labor has

come home to you so come home to us

labors coming home

[Applause]

there were three names on guest list for

every club and every event and every

opening Oasis blow and the boys un

loaded celebs were ringing us pop stars

of the day Damon Our Heroes

well nice we've actually kind of become

someone haven't we we're we're a thing

cool you know we're a cultural

phenomenon we're like a band this is

awesome start put my face in the

magazine more and more and more which is

kind of flattering of course right it's

it's nice being a bit of a kind of a lad

icon there was a lot to

celebrate I didn't know B the champagne

hand I'd be

lopsided and we'd won felt like the

fancine writers had

[Music]

[Applause]

won I defy anybody to pick up having

read it and not enjoy some part of it in

terms of television what plans do you

have

Mastermind topic Mastermind for drug

addicts okay not mean it okay thanks

James alcoholics Mastermind for

alcoholics and drug okay I'm sure you'd

be excellent at it okay thanks a

lot James was like this kind of hornet

that would just Dart in and out you'd

see him on the way to the L obviously

copious amount of

times you'd come in in the morning

there'd be Blood on the carpet and you'd

go James coughing up blood

again the cocaine Revolution was really

the big thing that but that hit the

whole of Britain load wasn't some weird

island of of strangeness it was part of

a whole change in British

Society just became more and more and

more

prevalent Oasis is singing about being

chained to the mirror and the Raz of

you know cool Britannia was built on a

kind of Glacier of of cocaine at

times what the [ __ ] are

these I think transporting was

successful in the '90s cuz it was one of

the first SNS to talk about drugs and

people taking drugs and nobody was

really writing about that or

acknowledging

it this is how life is now it's not

somebody walking into a pub and going

two PS of heavy please bman it was about

trying to to score some decent drugs

that we're going to take the party right

through the

weekend oh is this the way they say the

future's meant to feel are just 20,000

people standing in the field and I don't

quite understand just what this feeling

is that's okay cuz we're all sorted out

for

reason there was a period where where I

just didn't ever seem to go home I just

seemed to go from one thing to another

from the office to a party to another

thing and it became very

blurry I just said yes to things you

know and and that would be work or you

know it might have been drugs or

whatever else but I just kind of thought

well what happens if you just keep

[Music]

going all right so I'll give you this

and if you just press CL and ready

where's play you just press space bar

okay The Verve and the appropriately

titled history because they AR no more

let's meet our panel of Pop pundits

tonight from loaded magazine Michael

Holden hello welcome Michael is that a

fine epar for the band that single would

you think

Michael good question um yeah in a way I

mean I think it's a shame of split up

because I I always I always really liked

him I think you know they were going to

go on to be something really really good

you know better than anyone sort of

imagined so

yeah I've I have no memory of of of

taking part in that in that at all

um yeah strange and sort of rather

rather moving in a way

yeah do you know what date that was

sorry did one of you tell me September

95 September

95 is that

significant yeah I mean I S I wish I

could have a word with him yeah because

it's it's not long after that that I'm

you know I've become quite ill um very

ill I had stopped sleeping and as a

bloke I was like oh okay well I've got

the Constitution for this so therefore

maybe that's something that I can do I

was awake for days and days almost two

weeks in the end and by the end of that

I'd

started you know hallucinating without

any help at all um and it was a very

frightening period for me and and and

for my family gone home for Christmas

[Music]

um I'm at my dad's house in her Hills in

leads boxing day I think it is Michael

calls me and he's just

raving I just

thought they used to call me at night

the stuff I think sometimes they mistu

me for their dad which i r it because

Michael was about the only one who was

younger than me so I got this call that

was it

[Music]

oh New Year's Eve 1995 1996 that's

that's when I went to hospital and very

much in the classic style it's not easy

to get sectioned luckily but they took

one look at me and were pretty

unequivocal that I would be better off

in than being on the outside

yeah well it wasn't like being in the

office there were slightly less drugs I

mean I'm joking but

um yeah yeah it was

difficult it was very difficult

um it was awful when Michael was

sectioned it was really awful I would

definitely say that the warning signs

were completely ignored we were just

incapable we were complete idiots we

just carried on

[Music]

'90s was not only last decade of the

century of the Millennium it was like

last orders everybody was just necking

[Music]

stuff I had enough for a

lifetime I had enough drink I had enough

drugs I had enough excitement I mean to

be honest I could go some

more where's M with the bus he's coming

tell let her bring the drink up just

want a quick Swig it'll just sharpen me

up a

bit I don't need a lot of onse I'll just

start turn into a

Maniac Okay I love the sound of cans

opening I like the feel of

it where have I put the

mins this is what this is what was like

with cocaine honestly where's the

[ __ ]

cocaine I was a real [ __ ] mess you

know I mean I'll tell you

that Michael and Martin were just I was

absolute I just couldn't stop literally

whatever was there I could just would do

more than everyone I couldn't stop I

don't know if they were drug addicts I

watch there's no doubt about it just

couldn't [ __ ] stop even with

this I don't think I was always the

calmest boss

when I was chewing somebody out at

loaded when 5 minutes before i' probably

been praising them or giving them the

opportunity to go and do a great job I

had no control of that it was like a

[ __ ] boom on a yacht that wasn't

tethered it was just my emotions flying

around

inside I had terrible mood swings and

because I this big emotional

weight growing up through my teen years

my mom would occasionally go into the

mental hospital cuz she'd have a break

day

and at the time if somebody had mental

health problems they would be laughed

about just what what it was

like are you comfortable talking about

what it was like no it's fine it was it

it was it was really hard

it was really

hard I spoke on the Friday and I think

they found a body on the

Sund my mom

had had died of an opad

do and which I've been covering up you

know I've been covering up with cocaine

and

drink and

uh so all of that was inside and I was

just layering it up hunting adrenaline

hunting

excitement shutting

down the sadness and the fear

and 1994 Lo comes

out by the summer it's obviously a

massive [ __ ]

hit this is like 24 months after my

mom's died of an

overdose been in a State of

Shock CU my mom was a really nice person

she wasn't kind of permanently insane so

then when she would fall apart it was

difficult to deal

with my dad rang me and told me that

they'd found my

mom dead in the

kitchen and then I just remember putting

uh the harder they come the harder the

fall and I remember putting that on

there's a track on that album called

pressure

drop and that's that's what it felt like

it felt like pressure lifting I just

thought okay she's where she needs to be

now but

unfortunately the pressure on her drops

and then the pressure on yourself comes

[Music]

in we've got a car going from South

London up to the groer house in Mayfair

it was the EPA Awards which is rather

like the ba Awards in the mag consumer

magazine industry we were convinced we

weren't going to win cuz we won the

previous year and I don't think anyone's

ever won it two years in a row so me

James and Tim sounds so we dropped acid

thinking let's go to the PPA Awards on

acid what could be more you know rock

and roll she started taking eating the

acid and i' made the others take the

extra the acid as well i' encouraged

them they could have said

no I could feel that my glasses on my

face quite an unusual structure to have

on your head when you become very

sensitive to everything and then I

started being really squashed up in the

car and it really kick chiting quick

James just sort of looked at everybody

else and then at me and

said this may not have been the best

idea for us to drop that acid then and

uh I was kind of pissed off really

then we went

in the room is full of chandeliers

lights candles all sorts of sparkly

things I'm looking around the room all

this light it's a big event the whole of

the top table of the magazine industry

is there we were sitting on the same

table as a couple of the IPC

directors two things happened Tim

started howling like a

wolf and he couldn't stop

when the food came they were bringing us

square blocks of Bree and I remember

thinking Allan's head was turning into a

big hairy block of

Bree I got under the table I couldn't

handle all of the over stimulation of

the lights and Allan's head and Tim's

howling like a wolf so I just got under

the table for a bit and

then men's swaggers in at of James

BR I'm

Jesus [ __ ]

Christ and just the lights everywhere

and on the wait of the stage mirand got

all of me and kiss me big [ __ ]

lipstick over

there just get me back it

[Music]

was Barry mlen was another edit at the

time said he the end of the night he

passed me on the stairs I just a long

lines of cocaine just see

[Music]

success can make you feel

invulnerable it's like you're in a

shopping Trolley going downhill like you

can't control it you're just going

downhill hey

girls be boys in December 96 we went on

the loaded

tour girl was a uh a good idea on

paper we go this is real drug sex rock

and roll territory we've even got crisps

we've even got rizzlas because we're on

tour with loaded magazine here's Mr

Timothy South the deputy editor and

co-founder of loaded Tim what is the

Tour all about I'm playing all the RS

it's all about having a good time and

going on to a meeting the readers and

and basically showing them a good night

out

at that stage we were all exhausted you

know we' basically been living the life

for all that time the face is becoming

bloated and I just don't look very well

cuz I'm not very well the the unpleasant

side of laddism perhaps was coming out

at that

point I mean you're obviously very aware

that you know blog see your pictures in

the paper and do various disgusting acts

while looking at your picture but I mean

which one of those Bloks would capture

your heart art who is your ideal kind of

fell um it's a girl

actually by the time we came on stage

about 8 or 9:00 everybody was so drunk

in the audience when it went wrong it

went spectacularly wrong well I didn't

know what I was going to expec him but

it wasn't like an evening with loaded

magazine Kathy and Joe would get up on

stage and it was just tits out tits out

for the

lads this didn't feel like

ironic sexism anymore it felt a bit more

like something that could kick off I had

the chanting of my name

t t de left the dressing room walked out

on stage was met with this sea of young

bloke screaming and

shouting raining you know plastic mugs

of

beer standing there on stage with this

sort of tidal wave of masculinity

breaking over

[Music]

me and I just

thought what the [ __ ] have we

[Music]

created what's the bestselling men's

magazine at the moment loaded it's the

lad's

Bible acting like a y and a w is

suddenly cool yeah you're not a drunken

[ __ ] anymore no no no no you're a

postmodern ironic Fashion Icon yeah

the new lad with his loaded

magazine Lads with a little bit of I

know I'm being a lad I know I'm looking

at your breasts I know I'm tipping beer

over my head I know that I've Got My

Willie out and I'm waving it on the

beach and I realized that it's a stupid

thing to do but I'm doing it

anyway bit scary in terms of who the

readership was or the readership had

become I just like all the rest of us I

just drank through it

[Music]

frankly excessive Behavior was pretty

normal some of us were used to that

others weren't I could see Christian

deteriorating because he's working so

hard and he's I mean Christian will tell

you I think he was just burning

out yeah it wasn't the pressure of

getting the magazine

out it was the pressure

of innately know knowing that something

wasn't

right I've always felt uncomfortable

around

ly normal environments I

have yeah I hate it I hate

it and

um and I drank and I

drugged I rode motorcycles and played

rugby and did all those things and I was

never happy

and to be honest I felt ashamed because

I thought there was something wrong with

me that's what we get told isn't it

there's something wrong with you you

know you [ __ ] Pua you [ __ ] queer

you [ __ ] this you [ __ ] that and

it's so hard everybody would say to me

why are you so angry and you know what's

really sad is that the reason for that

anger was a lot to do with the fact that

I was trans I am

trans and

instead of trying to reconcile

that I blew things

up my resignation that was right then

I'm

off at what point did you start

distancing yourself from lad culture

like anything that you do for too long

lad culture is kind of fun and then you

do it for too long and it isn't but I'm

very proud three

L it's a love song Too football I don't

you could have written that without the

'90s

loaded wanted me and Frank Skinner on

the front

cover how does it feel looking at

that I noticed something when I look at

the cover I'm slightly standing aside

from the overt maless of this by doing a

frightened face and holding my hands

over my

Gro if I was in therapy now as opposed

to on television I would say this is a

way of saying my groin a is being

attacked as it were by load did because

of the messaging that loaded started

move to move towards that I think is

just a bit [ __ ]

yeah so much for Changed by that

point but I get out of

hospital I'm back in the thick of it in

the office trying to prove to myself

that things were as they were before

I've walked out of a lot psychiatric W

and that's when we're in Vanity

Fair with paty Ken and Liam Gallagher on

the

cover there we

are that's me in the PVC

Jers they wanted us to dress like the

DRS and clock Orange

you have this very famous photographer

David L Chappelle getting everyone

together in this very stage manag kind

of event but actually I think what's

happening for us as a group and within

some of us is that we're beginning to

come

apart me and James had a huge fight on

the set James was demanding cocaine they

wouldn't go and get him some someone had

some we wrapped up a line on the set for

some reason he headbutted

me it was very Clockwork

orange James and Martin started having a

fight me and Michael were just sitting

there going what the hell are we doing

here so we're all absolutely battered

and kind of Miserable as well because we

know serotonin levels are just

completely depleted at the end of the

loaded tour I was pretty messed up were

[ __ ] here it is so this is

just this is is the issue of London

swings

again this is you know the kind of apex

of American taste making saying oh

Britain you are where it's at there's

Alexander McQueen there are the Spice

Girls the British capital is a cultural

Trailblazer teeming with new and

Youthful icons of art pop music fashion

food and film even its politicians are

cool cool Britannia was cemented when

Blair invited no Gallagher to Downing

Street exist a bit of a PO London was

the happening place right now on the

world

[Music]

stage and cool britania was when it all

died I'm afraid Vanity Fair interviewing

everybody about what it was to be groovy

and British it's the absolutely

eradication of the quirky Outsider when

it had just been a few people making a

magazine problem with that is the

mainstream will always eat you it will

always

[Music]

win with success comes

attention FHM had kind of looked at what

we' done and you know very intelligently

turn themselves into a slightly

weaponized version

and their adverts were

[Music]

everywhere what

was just a kind of weather spoons

take God every month was somebody in a

bikini from Holly Oaks on a

loop FHM was more heavily down the

bird's angle that was the moment where

when the whole lad mag thing became the

lad mag

thing these new upstart magazines were

doing well sales of men's magazine Rise

by the month it was confirmed that for

the first time a Lads mag FHM outsold

loaded why do you think that Lad Mags

did so

well

[Laughter]

tit in the 70s and ' 80s horn was

absolutely underground it was something

that was on the top shelf that was

pretty inaccessible maybe they were 12

maybe 13 and they would find it in a

this was found in a bush for some

reason it was a joke at the time that

young men used to uh masturbate to the

cataloges that their moms had and they

would go to the pages that had the bras

on that was their fodder for

masturbating it was just like kind of TR

magic you

know in the mid99s porn was coming down

from the top shelf into the normal

magazines sexualized images just became

more allowed I

think part of the excitement and the

freeon of that time was the fact that

sex was being brought into mainstream

conversation but it's still using

women's bodies to s

things a competitive culture will emerge

who's going to pay the most for a

picture of whoever the most famous woman

who is wearing the least is what you end

up with there is a you know it's it's a

race to the bottom in every

sense the day that FHM just overtook Us

in sales by about 5,000 the management

IPC told us you need to stop putting

women on the caret every single time

because they the advertisers are saying

they're going to go with them

now I was very headstrong they couldn't

get me to do

[Music]

anything was Lush ever in loaded no no

we were never in loaded love life came

out in

96 we got lumped into what was called

the Sho gaze scene and at the time the

way that you would promote an album was

to get magazine features and reviews and

stuff but the landscape had really

changed for

women James denies

this because of course he doesn't

remember cuz he was off his [ __ ] tits

but you know I remember actually saying

like oh you know so you going to going

to review our record in loaded we're

going to get a review and he was like

well

you know if you strip down to like a

bikini or something or your bra knickers

then maybe when I mentioned this to

James recently he said like oh my God I

would never have said that you know I

knew you I'd known you for years why

would I have said something like that to

you and I said no exactly that's why I

remember it and that's why I found it so

upsetting because you did [ __ ] know

me why would you even [ __ ] say that

to me you know it was an insult I

thought we were equal and we're not and

I how did you react at the

time I just rolled my eyes and was like

oh [ __ ] off then did IPC put pressure on

loaded to compete with FHM IPC didn't

put any pressure on me you

compete was that a factor in why you

decided to leave

no I left purely for financial

reasons other people wanted me to work

for them more a lot more a lot of people

wanted me to work for them a lot more

and offered me a lot more money

television stations National

newspapers and then you know the PO

people are

cond they paid me to go there they give

me a Sig in on

Fe for the first time I had enough money

to buy a

James and I had some spectacular fights

and arguments but then he leaves for GQ

and I go with

him I followed my Nemesis my abuser my

you know cuz by then him and me were

getting on so [ __ ] badly the obvious

next question is why would you go with

him to

GQ because I knew which side my bread

was buttered

on the statement IPC put out was we'd

like to thank James Brown for helping us

launch

loaded they're [ __ ] [ __ ] they helped

me launch it I didn't help them they had

no idea they had nothing I applied that

sort of exciting rock and roll

environment to the office James had

jumped out of a moving

vehicle we were busy there wasn't a lot

of time for mourning or reflection I've

created the perfect job for myself and

along the way that means the readers get

the perfect magazine as well what is the

non James version of loaded

[Music]

I've never edited a magazine before I've

never edited anything

before it'll be fine it'll be fine

[Music]

my name is Derek Haron and I took over

as the editor of loaded when James

left it was so weird becoming editor

I've never had so many men want to

invite me into toilet

cubicles somebody in the staff told me

after I'd been eded for a couple of

months that I was being treated with

some level of

Suspicion because I didn't do

cocaine James was

inextricably linked to the magazine it's

it's like taking over from Alex Ferguson

at Man United and now it's like who's

this

dude what was Derek like as an editor I

mean he was a lot less challenging than

James but what we had in James and I

didn't appreciate until he' gone was

someone who really knew how to kind of

defend and protect certain aspects of

the

magazine from the kind of corporate

intentions of the culture that produced

it I remember having to call all the

staff together because I've been told by

Andy

that we really needed to react to FH am

and up the up the girl quotient in the

magazine to make more of the craze for

babes if you like to monetize babes

because clearly it's working on FHM and

and

Maxim I interviewed Dennis Hopper the

actor he was a kind of iconic figure

he'd been in these movies that we loved

but I got called into a meeting with the

publishers and they said that we

shouldn't have men on the cover anymore

I didn't really want to do that there's

a lot of quite angry people it was very

awkward I remember on more than one

occasion walking past a new stand and

doing a double take at a loaded cover

because it had TV presenters on it

wearing their under Underpants and

feeling like oh why did they have to do

that like feeling like worried for them

it's one thing if your job is to take

your clothes off you know your page

three girl or you know you dance in a

club or something but when I saw people

who did my line of work like scandy clad

I felt vulnerable for myself and also

for

them I'm here with the gorgeous Gale

Porter it doesn't get better than that

and she's now for G

power gorgeous I'm looking to see of me

she is gorgeous did they call you a

ladet

then I believe I was a lad I think I was

put under that bracket I remember the

first time I heard the term Le day there

was like one picture of I think it was

Zoe ball drinking Jack Daniels or

something but I think it was on her

wedding day she can do what she wants my

gosh you know what we used to have swigs

of BU fast and we were 12

Hold On Tight boys and girls here we go

a fair Grand Ride '90s TV it was just

fun no one was worried about being Ott

back back back a bit back you're not

wearing safety gear um I was feeling a

bit dangerous and a bit on the edge on

the edge you know those custard pies and

people were getting

guned of course if you're on TV suddenly

people are paying attention to you this

was all new to me and it gone from our

local press in Scotland going oh Weil

from joa and she's done really well

we're really proud of her to suddenly

you've got the world at your feet I was

having a

ball welcome to the show girl thanks

very much John it's to be here again you

nervous excited nervous excited

respiring ever so slightly are

you Porter

BK bled I think I only did one shoot for

them I mean they were nice enough when I

turned up but they did manage to get all

the clothes in the wrong size and they

go oh that doesn't fit oh that doesn't

fit oh that doesn't fit maybe you she

just wear a

sheet when I got asked to do FHM they

wanted me naked I form my grandma up and

I said oh they want to take a picture of

my ass and she was kind of oh I remember

back in the day we had pictures of

Marilyn Monroe we had these pictures and

it was all very lovely I do what you

want and I was like yeah all right then

good enough for Grandma it's good enough

for me I was a little bit um nervous um

but then because everybody else seemed

to just be fussing with my hair and

making sure you know there was fake tan

on my back and my mom was there and

there was wind machines going and it was

quite exciting I was getting all done up

it was like it was like being in a movie

it was just fun it was make

believe I felt quite

[Music]

empowered who here which guys read all

these magazines they sell millions all

come on now nobody's going everybody's

pretending they don't aha an acceptable

way of buying pictures of St scant Cloud

women brilliant now is this your

girlfriend yes I can't stand it these

are talented women you know presenters

and so on why do they need to take their

clothes off it's not just a woman it's

the woman you know it's one with a

[Music]

personality there's nothing wrong with

putting girls in the magazine that sex

and girls were part of the were part of

the conversation as far as we were

concerned management start telling you

you've got to be more like the FHM we

need more flesh D we need more women we

need more sexy shakes

[Music]

competition in media

breeds bad behavior sometimes things

would have to be in some sort of Flesh

fueled arms

[Music]

rice do you remember what happened to G

Porter Gil was very much your FHM

girl that was a time when I think it it

went too

far it was the 9th of May

1999 I got up in the morning and I was

in my bathroom I was doing my

teeth and I I had BBC news on in the

front room and I heard my name and I

thought BBC News they're quite sensible

why are they talking about

me and then I had to look outside my

front window and there was journalists

photographers outside the house and I

thought

oh

[ __ ] I went through into the front room

and I just saw this

image I felt a little bit stupid a

little bit let down well a big bit let

down that this was a

big PR stunt for a MAG aine and the only

person that wasn't informed was the

person's image that they used which was

me I think it was one of the biggest

selling fhms ever they kind of just used

me as a pawn in their

game I was new to the industry and when

they said they weren't going to pay me I

just assumed they didn't pay

anyone I was an easy target I

guess you you think of someone like G

Porter she stripped buck naked and then

got herself on the side of Big Ben you

know it did a lot for her consent would

have be nice cuz I almost probably would

have said

no I mean you said that it did a lot for

Gail Porter but I read in the paper that

as soon as it happened her name was

crossed off the live and kicking list to

take over from Zoe ball just even

walking up the road lots of people

pointing at you and and um sort

of yeah making sure you knew that they'd

seen you

naked she looks very lonely there

doesn't

she there you

go but did you know that they were going

to stick it on on no I didn't that was a

shock I must admit I did get a shock all

the members were going here

here and I thought that's the only seat

I'm getting in Parliament I'm a people

pleaser as well well I would definitely

was in the '90s that was all I was good

for was talking about

my R and FHM no what there was a a

strange time in the '90s when men on TV

were mean to

females some of them seemed to

think that it made them look like some

sort of big man in front of their mats

whichever one of us is wrong we take up

our tops

well I hope it's you SE cuz I've seen

more than enough of

USS it felt like you know when you get

bullied at school when you there'd be a

group of people a group of lads that

would pick on you and uh they'd all

think it was funny and they didn't

really give a [ __ ] what you thought well

go home then if you're not going to show

your ass or slag off Michael stop

there's no reason for you to be here

thanks very much

Mark I wish um I was more in control as

opposed to them being of in control of

me I let people take

advantage and I shouldn't have

done one of the awful things about

sexism is it takes your own body away

from you that is the awful thing about

it so you are living your life this is

your body you're going through the world

and what sexism does is says that's not

your body it's mine stunts a stunt

everybody's trying to do stunts and out

stunt each other all the time and things

like that we'd already done

it classic loaded

Style we' just done it

badly we projected the cover shot of Joe

gas onto the side of the House of

Commons and for some reason the pr

didn't work it never got me

traction and then FHM did it a while

later and they got all the love in the

world

there was no desire to pick up a copy of

loaded in 200 or 2002 or

2010 that was not loaded it's such a

shame that it carried on it would

basically turned into everything

else nuts Zoo all that awful

stuff women don't expect any help on a

Thursday

the basic recipe for a successful men's

magazine is very

simple I picture this is more of an on

the train on the way to work and maybe

even in the laboratory where a lot of

guys like to retreat for a few Quiet

Moments what do you think about Derek

going on to set up nuts is that what he

did after he left

loaded well I mean everyone needs a job

don't they

I don't introduce myself and go hi I'm

Derek I launch

nuts it went really dark I think men's

magazines that's when they became really

misogynistic just tits by the time you

get to nuts and Zoo they were very

conscious that there was a large

proportion of 13 and 14y old boys buying

that and they were perfectly fine with

it and they even lowered the level of

verboseness

cater for that does anything stick out

on your mind as a time that went too far

I think the one that my wife would bring

up is a thing in that's called Street

strip a couple of the Riders would go

out into the South Bank and ask young

women if they wanted to be in the

magazine that week we had a studio come

upstairs um take some shots in your

pants and then your reward is be in the

magazine

and I think I think we we we started to

do things that were a bit weird which

you don't see until you stop and go hang

on a minute is it are we being

weird you go

oh oh no you mentioned it

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yes in the 2000s I went into a news

agent and all of it was Lads mags and it

was low it was the height of like you

know a 9-year-old boy and you look down

the rad and it was just woman woman

woman tits TTS tits TS TI T TT as if the

magazine covers had been designed by

computers and I was like again that's a

second moment where the words in my head

but [ __ ] hell what have we created

this is [ __ ] terrible the

pornification of the men's mag Market

felt like it was our

fault by that time loed itself was

increasingly tabloid

that tabloid soaking got incredibly ugly

in the

2000s if you let people get away with

being that nasty about women don't be

[ __ ] surprised when they push that

envelope as far as they can hey Britney

you right again tonight we don't want to

see the whole woman we want to see the

violated bit and they're

always upskirting did guys don't be

perverse we want to see her Fanny

through her knickers and we're not even

going to ask

anymore in the background women were

making huge

strides campaigners from lose the lad's

mags have been protesting outside Tesco

stores across the country today I think

that it's part of a cycle of sexual

violence against women it's magazines

like nuts zoo and loaded which are

causing offense

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what happened to Lad Maxs I think the

internet

happened suddenly nobody needed a ladm

because they could just go online and

they could find all the sexy ladies that

they wanted so I think that killed it

now horn is really really really really

accessible everything was becoming very

sexualized the the internet that the

pornography changed

masculinity was it worse to have lots of

pictures of naked women on the middle

shelf or is it worse to have porn on

your phone it's all the same thing then

social media enters the fry and there's

the rise of the manosphere and incel

culture so the manosphere is the most

important movement alive today people

monetized the epidemic of sad and lonely

men the sense that women are getting too

up and they're getting a little too

pleased with themselves I learned that

someone I thought I loved and trusted

was filming my most intimate and private

moments came out of uh the TV show love

Island an ex of mine had shared a lot of

imagery of me it's hard it's the hardest

thing one of the hardest things I've

ever gone through in my life the

algorithm will always tell you as a

young man that this is where you should

be going and that can lead down some

very dark paths I think that's where it

all gets kind of boiled down into a bad

toxic do I think that you can trace

these innocent funloving beginnings of

loaded to the misogyny of Jordan

Peterson it's a very rare woman who at

the age of 30 doesn't consider having a

child her primary desire and the ones

that don't consider that there's

something that isn't quite right the

misogyny of Andrew Tate you're going to

cry over some [ __ ] it's man

up would Andrew Tate have happened if

loaded out and upen [ __ ] yes the gu's a

[ __ ] psycho are we one of the

inferences that made Modern Britain 100%

is it our fault no [ __ ] way me and

James argue about them whether loaded

with sexist or not that's what we argue

about my argument always was women don't

get into loaded unless they haven't got

their clothes on right and he was like

yeah but no they're really funny and

there's this and that and the other but

and I but fundamentally that is

true it's like you're sitting there

saying the grass is blue James the grass

is blue look at the [ __ ]

covers look at the covers these are not

sexualized

images he gets very hurt if I say it was

sexist actually because load is very

close to him you're not just talking

about a magazine that he

edited that that magazine is kind of him

at that

time how does it feel to know what

loaded became after you left you're

obsessed with this this this is why I

didn't even want to do this documentary

cuz it's just it's an obsession it's an

obsession with like oh oh God it's got

some tits in it it's like so [ __ ]

what whenever I sort of start trying to

discuss it with you you don't engage

with me in a conversation because I'm

not interested in it should we just have

a break for 5 minutes sure okay

I can't stand it I can't stand the the

way the perception

was it's

depressing if you do something good and

then as time

passes and it becomes something else you

have you have no control over people's

perceptions and you have no control over

what's happened it's but also it's quite

strange you know that is very much of an

error I'm nearly

60 every now and then I would draw a

cover of what it might be like now just

to amuse

myself dead old too fast to live too

stupid to die win hip replacement and

new kidney and

liver for men who are definitely past it

my first heart attack by Adam

Porter I missed the fun we

had I don't think there's ever been a

magazine in the history of publishing it

had as much fun as we

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did I really miss those people and a

sense of belonging really loading as

magazine people don't take life too

seriously but also want to live it to

the full we were very alive

I mean I'm alive

now which is quite an achievement I

think considering what it meant to be

alive

then right how are you doing these days

what what are you up to these days oh

god um I make Pots if anybody stops me

in this straight it's not because they

go aren't you the guy who used to Ed

loaded 30 years ago they go AR you the

guy who was in the Ry throw L think clay

would just explode yeah going to have to

be careful what kind of sober are you

now uh I think the technical expression

is California sober well we taking the

things that we took the piss out of and

and given them some kind of Gravitas it

was a postmodern magazine in the way it

wouldn't have worked in any other time

it was genius absolutely genius and I

don't think there's anything like that

that's been before it and I don't think

there's anything that's going to come

after it bit like

Elvis it's nice to see that things have

changed changed and women have got a

voice and we're more in control so maybe

they can take away from it let's not do

what Gil did get that made into a

t-shirt I'll sell it when I go on tour

don't do what Gil

did just be proactive look after

yourself don't let anyone take advantage

of you and

um you'll be fine

what's next for James Brown I'm going to

go to the pub and I'm going to drink

Sparkling Water I'm not going to go into

my bedroom and start crying and shooting

up wanking whatever you think I do

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