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[dramatic drum beat]
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...13, and it's
even worse 'cause...
3
00:00:14,931 --> 00:00:16,307
[laughter]
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00:00:20,020 --> 00:00:21,396
[Marc]
There were multiple times
5
00:00:21,438 --> 00:00:22,731
where there was a rumbling
and a rumor
6
00:00:22,772 --> 00:00:24,733
around Bill Cosby,
and it went away.
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And then Hannibal Buress...
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00:00:32,907 --> 00:00:34,451
[laughter]
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[Marc]
But for whatever reason,
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00:00:42,292 --> 00:00:43,918
when Hannibal Buress
mentions Bill Cosby
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00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:45,754
and talks about this stuff,
it explodes.
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00:00:45,795 --> 00:00:47,297
-Bill Cosby--
-Whoa, did you hear--
13
00:00:47,338 --> 00:00:48,965
Yeah, oh, no, it's--
they heard.
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00:00:49,007 --> 00:00:50,216
-Yeah.
-Everybody heard.
15
00:00:50,258 --> 00:00:51,259
Everybody heard.
That's what happened.
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That's what happened.
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Nobody heard,
and then everybody heard.
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[Marc] And suddenly,
19
00:00:55,722 --> 00:00:57,849
this is no longer a rumbling
underneath the ground.
20
00:00:57,891 --> 00:00:59,559
This is now
a full-blown explosion
21
00:00:59,601 --> 00:01:01,061
that everybody
has to deal with.
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00:01:01,102 --> 00:01:02,520
When I saw the video,
I was just like,
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00:01:02,562 --> 00:01:04,731
"What the hell
is he talking about?
24
00:01:04,773 --> 00:01:06,941
A rapist?"
I'm like, "Oh, ugh. Ugh."
25
00:01:06,983 --> 00:01:08,943
For once, these women thought
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00:01:08,985 --> 00:01:11,780
that somebody was
listening to them.
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[laughter]
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00:01:24,167 --> 00:01:26,628
It is super important
to bear in mind
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00:01:26,669 --> 00:01:28,338
that Hannibal Buress is
not just a man.
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He is a Black man.
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A man spoke up
for what he did to women.
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We got a special guest
in the building.
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[DJ] The man who destroyed
Bill Cosby's career.
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-Oh, my goodness.
-[DJ] Don't start like that.
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[Gloria] Why Hannibal Buress?
36
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I don't really care whether
it took a man or a woman.
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It had its impact.
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Percussive jazz music
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[laughter]
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[Kamau]
Yep, I remember this.
42
00:02:44,622 --> 00:02:46,249
I know Hannibal a little bit,
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00:02:46,291 --> 00:02:47,709
so I was clear on one thing:
44
00:02:47,750 --> 00:02:49,878
he was not trying
to take down Bill Cosby.
45
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,006
...it wasn't even
a fully developed bit.
46
00:02:53,047 --> 00:02:55,216
-It was still--
-[laughter]
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00:02:55,258 --> 00:02:57,385
[Kamau] He was just doing
that thing that comics do:
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00:02:57,427 --> 00:02:58,887
taking shots at a sacred cow.
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[cheers and applause]
50
00:03:00,305 --> 00:03:01,806
And this ain't the first time
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00:03:01,848 --> 00:03:03,558
a Black comic had
a problem with Bill Cosby.
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00:03:08,855 --> 00:03:10,398
Do you watch
The Bill Cosby Show?
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00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,317
[audience] Yes!
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00:03:12,358 --> 00:03:14,360
I do too.
I love Bill Cosby Show.
55
00:03:14,402 --> 00:03:16,154
I've been a big fan
of Bill Cosby all my life.
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00:03:16,196 --> 00:03:17,405
Never met the man before,
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00:03:17,447 --> 00:03:19,240
but he called me up
about a year ago
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00:03:19,282 --> 00:03:21,409
and chastised me on the phone
for being too dirty.
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00:03:21,451 --> 00:03:22,744
[as Cosby]
"I would like
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00:03:22,785 --> 00:03:24,579
to talk to you...
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about some of the things
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00:03:32,128 --> 00:03:34,923
that you do in your show.
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00:03:34,964 --> 00:03:38,426
You cannot say
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00:03:38,468 --> 00:03:42,931
filth, flarn, filth, flarn,
filth in front of people."
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00:03:42,972 --> 00:03:46,434
And I said, "I never said
no filth, flarn, filth."
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He says, "You know what
I'm talking about.
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00:03:48,102 --> 00:03:50,730
I can't use the type
of language that you use,
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00:03:50,772 --> 00:03:53,066
but you know what I mean
when I say filth,
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00:03:53,107 --> 00:03:54,609
flarn, flarn, flarn, filth."
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00:03:54,651 --> 00:03:56,778
And I said, "I never said
no filth, flarn, filth.
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And I don't know
what you're talking about.
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00:03:57,946 --> 00:03:59,781
I'm offended that you called.
Fuck you."
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00:03:59,822 --> 00:04:00,907
[Godfrey] For some reason,
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00:04:00,949 --> 00:04:02,617
Cosby's able
to get people's numbers.
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00:04:02,659 --> 00:04:03,993
That's what I want to know.
76
00:04:04,035 --> 00:04:06,037
How the fuck is he getting
people's numbers?
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00:04:06,079 --> 00:04:07,747
That's the weirdest shit.
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00:04:07,789 --> 00:04:09,749
Like, "I got your number.
Don't ask why.
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00:04:09,791 --> 00:04:12,001
I know everything.
Doopa-doopa-dop."
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I was so mad, I called
Richard Pryor's house up
81
00:04:14,003 --> 00:04:15,964
and said, "Yo, Richard,
Bill Cosby just called me up
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and told me I was too dirty."
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And Richard said, "The next
time motherfucker call,
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00:04:19,259 --> 00:04:20,969
tell him I said suck my dick."
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[laughter]
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[Chris] It was fucked up.
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00:04:23,846 --> 00:04:25,098
He's this young guy
doing comedy,
88
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and this old dude,
who he looked up to,
89
00:04:26,933 --> 00:04:28,059
calls him and says,
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00:04:28,101 --> 00:04:29,477
"You need
to stop talking like this,"
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00:04:29,519 --> 00:04:31,271
and, you know,
the filth, flarn, the filth.
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00:04:31,312 --> 00:04:33,231
And he was like,
"Fuck you. Who are you?"
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00:04:33,273 --> 00:04:34,816
That shit was crazy,
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00:04:34,857 --> 00:04:37,235
and he was just dogging
different Black comedians.
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00:04:37,277 --> 00:04:40,571
That is when I think
people started going,
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00:04:40,613 --> 00:04:43,658
"Why is our hero
shitting on us?"
97
00:04:43,700 --> 00:04:45,451
I think one of the most
embarrassing ones,
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00:04:45,493 --> 00:04:48,079
where I thought he got
a little bit overboard,
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00:04:48,121 --> 00:04:49,330
was when Wanda Sykes--
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00:04:49,372 --> 00:04:51,040
she's walking around
talking to people
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00:04:51,082 --> 00:04:52,667
at the Emmys,
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00:04:52,709 --> 00:04:54,961
and she's just
interviewing people.
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[Wanda] Mr. Cosby, Ray Romano
is presenting you your award.
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00:04:58,965 --> 00:05:01,050
So what, was Nipsey Russell
busy tonight?
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00:05:01,092 --> 00:05:02,468
[laughter]
106
00:05:02,510 --> 00:05:04,470
Nipsey could use some work.
107
00:05:04,512 --> 00:05:06,389
You know, you got
Larry David sitting behind--
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00:05:06,431 --> 00:05:07,974
you know, Larry don't know
what he doing.
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00:05:08,016 --> 00:05:09,809
You know that?
His show all improvised.
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00:05:09,851 --> 00:05:11,978
Like, The Cosby Show,
that was all scripted.
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Yeah, we spoke English.
112
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"We spoke English."
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Damn!
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I don't even--I--
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and Wanda recovered from it.
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00:05:20,153 --> 00:05:22,947
But oh, my God,
I wouldn't have gone back out.
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00:05:22,989 --> 00:05:24,782
Mr. Cosby can be
a little smug.
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00:05:24,824 --> 00:05:27,368
[laughs]
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00:05:27,410 --> 00:05:31,331
Bill Cosby's tactics
were really to bully people.
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00:05:31,372 --> 00:05:33,166
Bill Cosby.
Welcome, sir.
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00:05:33,207 --> 00:05:35,043
Bill Cosby always thought
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00:05:35,084 --> 00:05:37,545
that he was almost better
than other people,
123
00:05:37,587 --> 00:05:39,213
because he was so clean
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00:05:39,255 --> 00:05:42,216
and because he did
present himself to the world
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00:05:42,258 --> 00:05:43,634
in a certain kind of way.
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00:05:43,676 --> 00:05:45,720
You're not crazy
about the press
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00:05:45,762 --> 00:05:49,223
and the way it's doing--
handling its job in America.
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00:05:49,265 --> 00:05:50,975
No, because they lie.
129
00:05:51,017 --> 00:05:54,228
He made it clear
that he did not like it
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00:05:54,270 --> 00:05:55,980
when people wrote critically
of him.
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00:05:56,022 --> 00:05:57,648
If you criticize Bill Cosby,
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00:05:57,690 --> 00:05:59,609
he's gonna do everything
he can to shut you down,
133
00:05:59,650 --> 00:06:01,694
and there were a lot
of people afraid of that.
134
00:06:01,736 --> 00:06:04,364
Some reporter says--
criticizes you
135
00:06:04,405 --> 00:06:06,240
or says something
that's not quite true,
136
00:06:06,282 --> 00:06:08,451
some people will say,
"What do you care?"
137
00:06:08,493 --> 00:06:11,662
I don't like anybody
having fun with me
138
00:06:11,704 --> 00:06:13,956
because they're jealous.
139
00:06:13,998 --> 00:06:15,541
There were several instances
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00:06:15,583 --> 00:06:19,045
where he would
call reporters himself,
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00:06:19,087 --> 00:06:22,757
making mild threats
about, you know,
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00:06:22,799 --> 00:06:24,467
a reporter's work,
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00:06:24,509 --> 00:06:27,387
and a reporter needed
to retract a story.
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00:06:27,428 --> 00:06:28,805
That's frightening.
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Don't get upset with me
146
00:06:30,473 --> 00:06:32,767
because you decide
to become a journalist
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00:06:32,809 --> 00:06:35,561
and you're only making
$700 a week,
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00:06:35,603 --> 00:06:38,272
so you begin
to tear up somebody
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00:06:38,314 --> 00:06:40,733
who's making
$60 million a year,
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00:06:40,775 --> 00:06:43,236
that you begin
to dislike that person.
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00:06:43,277 --> 00:06:47,532
It is--it's dishonest.
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00:06:47,573 --> 00:06:49,450
I was a new professor
at Temple,
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00:06:49,492 --> 00:06:52,453
and he had given a speech
at Spelman College,
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00:06:52,495 --> 00:06:54,872
talking about Black men
being irresponsible.
155
00:06:54,914 --> 00:06:57,083
...are dropping out
of high school.
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00:06:57,125 --> 00:06:58,876
[Marc] Sending their sperm
out everywhere.
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00:06:58,918 --> 00:07:02,130
But they know how to send
their sperm cells out.
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00:07:04,090 --> 00:07:05,383
[Marc] You know,
just basically talking
159
00:07:05,425 --> 00:07:08,636
about Black men being these...
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00:07:08,678 --> 00:07:10,596
social problems.
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00:07:10,638 --> 00:07:12,056
And so I wrote an op-ed
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challenging and criticizing
Bill Cosby.
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00:07:14,642 --> 00:07:19,021
The next day, I get
a phone call from my dean.
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00:07:19,063 --> 00:07:21,441
I'm an untenured
new professor.
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00:07:21,482 --> 00:07:24,277
"Professor Hill,
Bill Cosby has called me,
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00:07:24,318 --> 00:07:26,446
he's called the provost,
he's called the president,
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00:07:26,487 --> 00:07:29,365
and he's asking
why you would do this,
168
00:07:29,407 --> 00:07:33,161
and he's asking
if you are tenured,"
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00:07:33,202 --> 00:07:37,248
which I took as a threat,
170
00:07:37,290 --> 00:07:38,833
'cause there ain't
a couple reasons to ask--
171
00:07:38,875 --> 00:07:40,334
it's like if somebody
in the hood asks you,
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00:07:40,376 --> 00:07:41,836
"What size them"--you know,
"What size your sneakers?"
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00:07:41,878 --> 00:07:44,797
It's like they sizing you up
to see how vulnerable you are.
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00:07:44,839 --> 00:07:46,799
Then he calls
the education college
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00:07:46,841 --> 00:07:48,843
and says, "I want
to start giving a talk
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00:07:48,885 --> 00:07:50,803
to teachers on a regular basis
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00:07:50,845 --> 00:07:53,181
about how they should talk
to their students."
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00:07:53,222 --> 00:07:56,184
Mind you, he's never
taught a class in his life.
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00:07:56,225 --> 00:07:57,768
I decide,
"You know what? I'll go."
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00:07:57,810 --> 00:07:59,312
So then I sit through it.
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00:07:59,353 --> 00:08:00,938
So I go up to him.
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00:08:00,980 --> 00:08:04,567
"Dr. Cosby,
my name's Marc Lamont Hill."
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00:08:04,609 --> 00:08:08,321
He turns and looks at me,
puts his sunglasses on,
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00:08:08,362 --> 00:08:09,697
and then turns like this.
185
00:08:09,739 --> 00:08:12,325
Won't face me.
Turns away from me.
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00:08:12,366 --> 00:08:15,203
I said, "Dr. Cosby,
I wrote this piece,
187
00:08:15,244 --> 00:08:16,746
and I want you to recognize
that I appreciate
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00:08:16,787 --> 00:08:18,456
what you do for our community.
189
00:08:18,498 --> 00:08:21,584
I just want to focus
on the structural stuff
190
00:08:21,626 --> 00:08:24,295
and not the individual stuff.
191
00:08:24,337 --> 00:08:26,255
The personal
responsibility stuff, I think,
192
00:08:26,297 --> 00:08:27,548
can't be the only story
we tell.
193
00:08:27,590 --> 00:08:29,258
We gotta do both."
194
00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:31,969
And I'm expecting him
to, you know, engage me.
195
00:08:32,011 --> 00:08:34,847
And instead he says,
without looking at me,
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00:08:34,889 --> 00:08:36,474
"Mr. Hill"--
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00:08:36,516 --> 00:08:38,726
he's Dr. Cosby,
but I got to be Mr. Hill,
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00:08:38,768 --> 00:08:41,646
and I got a real PhD.
199
00:08:41,687 --> 00:08:46,150
"Mr. Hill,
was I fucking with you?"
200
00:08:46,192 --> 00:08:48,569
And I was like, "No."
201
00:08:48,611 --> 00:08:51,239
And he was like, "Then why
you up here fucking with me?"
202
00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,241
Like, all North Philly
came out of him, right?
203
00:08:53,282 --> 00:08:54,742
And then the next day,
I go to my office,
204
00:08:54,784 --> 00:08:57,370
and there's a note for me
from my dean again.
205
00:08:57,411 --> 00:08:58,746
And he said,
"Yeah, Bill Cosby called.
206
00:08:58,788 --> 00:09:00,248
He said that he tried
to have a talk with you,
207
00:09:00,289 --> 00:09:01,749
but you just wouldn't listen."
208
00:09:04,252 --> 00:09:05,336
That's Bill Cosby.
209
00:09:07,338 --> 00:09:09,549
[Maureen]
In 2014,
210
00:09:09,590 --> 00:09:11,551
NBC announced
that it was creating
211
00:09:11,592 --> 00:09:15,513
a new family sitcom
with Bill Cosby at the center.
212
00:09:15,555 --> 00:09:19,267
NBC was like, "Great,
maybe we're gonna catch fire
213
00:09:19,308 --> 00:09:21,602
once again
with another Cosby show,"
214
00:09:21,644 --> 00:09:26,190
even though on the Internet
for any executive to see
215
00:09:26,232 --> 00:09:29,694
was rape allegations
against Bill Cosby
216
00:09:29,735 --> 00:09:34,240
and even rape allegations
on NBC on The Today Show.
217
00:09:34,282 --> 00:09:37,285
He produced two capsules
in his hand,
218
00:09:37,326 --> 00:09:39,161
but I thought nothing
of it and I--
219
00:09:39,203 --> 00:09:41,080
[Maureen]
This stuff was out there.
220
00:09:41,122 --> 00:09:42,790
No one wanted
to grapple with it.
221
00:09:42,832 --> 00:09:45,626
...you know, and that's how
the actual assault began.
222
00:09:45,668 --> 00:09:48,170
If multiple news pieces
are out there in the media
223
00:09:48,212 --> 00:09:51,090
and you still made
that fucking deal,
224
00:09:51,132 --> 00:09:53,968
what kind of monsters are you?
225
00:09:54,010 --> 00:09:56,053
Yeah, see, now,
there's a whole new culture.
226
00:09:56,095 --> 00:09:58,097
[Kamau] Most of us weren't
grappling with it back then.
227
00:09:58,139 --> 00:09:59,765
Bill Cosby
was still America's dad.
228
00:09:59,807 --> 00:10:02,810
For me, when you were cursing,
I started crying.
229
00:10:02,852 --> 00:10:05,146
[Kamau] He was still Black
America's angry grandpa.
230
00:10:05,187 --> 00:10:09,317
The kid could be
busted tonight--
231
00:10:09,358 --> 00:10:11,152
[Kamau] But something
about Hannibal's joke
232
00:10:11,193 --> 00:10:13,154
plus grainy cellphone footage
233
00:10:13,195 --> 00:10:16,324
plus this new era of
social media was explosive.
234
00:10:16,365 --> 00:10:18,326
[reporter] The video
of comedian Hannibal Buress
235
00:10:18,367 --> 00:10:19,827
went viral.
236
00:10:22,955 --> 00:10:24,165
Yeah.
237
00:10:24,206 --> 00:10:26,208
Yeah.
Well, that's...
238
00:10:26,250 --> 00:10:27,627
Hannibal Buress.
239
00:10:27,668 --> 00:10:28,836
[reporter]
The spark that seemed
240
00:10:28,878 --> 00:10:30,379
to ignite an explosion--
241
00:10:30,421 --> 00:10:33,674
[Renée] It put the lie
to his sanctimony.
242
00:10:33,716 --> 00:10:36,636
How dare you criticize
anyone else?
243
00:10:36,677 --> 00:10:38,971
Yeah, my pants
might be sagging,
244
00:10:39,013 --> 00:10:40,514
but I ain't never
raped nobody.
245
00:10:40,556 --> 00:10:44,143
I could hear his anger
about the hypocrisy
246
00:10:44,185 --> 00:10:45,561
of being preached to.
247
00:10:45,603 --> 00:10:47,480
Now, suddenly, it's on Twitter
248
00:10:47,521 --> 00:10:49,190
and Facebook and YouTube,
249
00:10:49,231 --> 00:10:51,859
and suddenly
what could have been a blip
250
00:10:51,901 --> 00:10:53,736
is now
a full-blown media scandal.
251
00:10:53,778 --> 00:10:56,030
[reporter] That unleashed
an anti-Cosby blizzard of--
252
00:10:56,072 --> 00:10:57,698
[Kamau] Now, many people
remember Hannibal's joke
253
00:10:57,740 --> 00:11:00,034
as being the thing
that took down Bill Cosby,
254
00:11:00,076 --> 00:11:01,869
but that's not true.
255
00:11:01,911 --> 00:11:04,705
Bill Cosby was still
doing Bill Cosby things.
256
00:11:04,747 --> 00:11:06,165
Just a few weeks later,
257
00:11:06,207 --> 00:11:07,875
Bill and Camille
were promoting
258
00:11:07,917 --> 00:11:10,211
and exhibition of their art
at the Smithsonian,
259
00:11:10,252 --> 00:11:12,505
like nothing weird
was going on.
260
00:11:12,546 --> 00:11:13,881
And there were lots
of media interviews
261
00:11:13,923 --> 00:11:15,800
about the art, like it was
business as usual.
262
00:11:15,841 --> 00:11:19,136
That thing is so wonderful.
263
00:11:19,178 --> 00:11:20,721
[Kamau] A couple journalists
did manage to ask questions
264
00:11:20,763 --> 00:11:21,972
about Hannibal's joke.
265
00:11:22,014 --> 00:11:23,724
[reporter] I have to ask
about your name
266
00:11:23,766 --> 00:11:27,561
coming up in the news recently
regarding this comedian.
267
00:11:27,603 --> 00:11:29,063
No, no, we don't answer that.
268
00:11:29,105 --> 00:11:30,231
[reporter] Okay.
269
00:11:30,272 --> 00:11:31,732
[Kamau] At the time,
270
00:11:31,774 --> 00:11:32,900
those clips didn't see
the light of day.
271
00:11:32,942 --> 00:11:33,901
-Thank you.
-[Kamau] 'Cause...
272
00:11:33,943 --> 00:11:35,361
Thank you.
273
00:11:35,403 --> 00:11:36,862
Now, can I get
something from you?
274
00:11:36,904 --> 00:11:38,072
[reporter] What's that?
275
00:11:38,114 --> 00:11:40,741
That none of that
will be shown.
276
00:11:40,783 --> 00:11:44,537
[reporter] I--
[sighs]
277
00:11:44,578 --> 00:11:48,040
I can't promise that myself,
but you didn't say anything--
278
00:11:48,082 --> 00:11:50,584
I know I didn't say anything,
279
00:11:50,626 --> 00:11:53,421
but I'm asking your integrity
280
00:11:53,462 --> 00:11:56,215
that since I didn't want
to say anything,
281
00:11:56,257 --> 00:11:58,926
but I did answer you
in terms of
282
00:11:58,968 --> 00:12:00,553
"I don't want
to say anything,"
283
00:12:00,594 --> 00:12:02,722
of what value will it have?
284
00:12:02,763 --> 00:12:06,308
-I don't think it will--
-Ma'am, what'd you say?
285
00:12:07,643 --> 00:12:10,020
-Sorry?
-What did you say?
286
00:12:10,062 --> 00:12:11,689
[person] I don't think it has
any value either.
287
00:12:11,731 --> 00:12:13,107
Yeah.
288
00:12:13,149 --> 00:12:16,736
And I would appreciate it
if it was scuttled.
289
00:12:16,777 --> 00:12:18,070
[reporter] I hear you.
290
00:12:18,112 --> 00:12:20,573
I will tell that
to my editors,
291
00:12:20,614 --> 00:12:24,702
and I think
that they will understand.
292
00:12:24,744 --> 00:12:27,204
Well, I think if you want
to consider yourself
293
00:12:27,246 --> 00:12:29,373
-to be serious...
-[reporter] Mm-hmm.
294
00:12:29,415 --> 00:12:31,417
...that it will
not appear anywhere.
295
00:12:31,459 --> 00:12:32,960
Okay.
296
00:12:33,002 --> 00:12:36,422
And I think you need to get
on the phone with his...
297
00:12:36,464 --> 00:12:39,133
-[person] I will, yeah.
-...person immediately.
298
00:12:39,175 --> 00:12:41,844
-[person] Okay.
-Okay, thank you.
299
00:12:41,886 --> 00:12:44,263
At that particular point
in time,
300
00:12:44,305 --> 00:12:46,182
it was
sort of the perfect storm.
301
00:12:46,223 --> 00:12:49,977
It was my opportunity
to tell my story.
302
00:12:50,019 --> 00:12:51,103
[Kamau] Now, even though
Hannibal's joke
303
00:12:51,145 --> 00:12:52,521
got people talking,
304
00:12:52,563 --> 00:12:54,440
it was Barbara Bowman's op-ed
305
00:12:54,482 --> 00:12:56,650
that led other survivors
to come forward.
306
00:12:56,692 --> 00:12:59,111
Monday morning,
when it hit the paper,
307
00:12:59,153 --> 00:13:00,821
it went viral.
308
00:13:00,863 --> 00:13:03,032
[reporter] The man who became
known as America's dad
309
00:13:03,073 --> 00:13:05,618
now facing a variety
of troubling allegations.
310
00:13:05,659 --> 00:13:07,369
I was hovering
over the toilet bowl.
311
00:13:07,411 --> 00:13:09,789
[reporter] Women coming
forward with shocking claims.
312
00:13:09,830 --> 00:13:11,290
[reporter]
Two women have come forward,
313
00:13:11,332 --> 00:13:13,417
publicly accusing him
of sexual assault.
314
00:13:13,459 --> 00:13:14,627
The next morning, I woke up,
315
00:13:14,668 --> 00:13:15,836
and I wasn't wearing
my pajamas
316
00:13:15,878 --> 00:13:17,087
[reporter]
She is the fourth woman
317
00:13:17,129 --> 00:13:18,506
to come forward
in recent weeks.
318
00:13:18,547 --> 00:13:20,174
In his hand, he had two big,
large, white pills.
319
00:13:20,216 --> 00:13:21,592
[reporter]
More trouble for Bill Cosby.
320
00:13:21,634 --> 00:13:22,927
Another woman has come--
321
00:13:22,968 --> 00:13:24,470
He grabbed me, like--
322
00:13:24,512 --> 00:13:26,472
He poured a beverage for me,
an alcoholic beverage.
323
00:13:26,514 --> 00:13:28,182
He had his hand
on the back of my head--
324
00:13:28,224 --> 00:13:30,017
...this very predatory,
intense look.
325
00:13:30,059 --> 00:13:31,685
[reporter] ...accusing
comedian Bill Cosby
326
00:13:31,727 --> 00:13:33,187
of drugging and raping her.
327
00:13:33,229 --> 00:13:34,522
I wanted to leave.
I wanted to get out of there.
328
00:13:34,563 --> 00:13:36,023
Oh, my God.
329
00:13:36,065 --> 00:13:37,358
[reporter] A woman
comes forward claiming
330
00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:39,693
Cosby sexually assaulted her
decades ago.
331
00:13:39,735 --> 00:13:42,863
-I don't remember any of it.
-He said, "I'm Bill Cosby."
332
00:13:42,905 --> 00:13:44,198
[reporter] Another accusation
of sexual assault--
333
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:45,324
[reporter] Another woman has
come forward...
334
00:13:45,366 --> 00:13:47,034
The room started to spin.
335
00:13:47,076 --> 00:13:48,369
[reporter] More trouble
for Bill Cosby.
336
00:13:48,410 --> 00:13:49,829
[reporter] At least 15 women
have accused
337
00:13:49,870 --> 00:13:51,205
the 77-year-old
of sexual assault.
338
00:13:51,247 --> 00:13:52,915
I had no interest in sex
of any kind with Bill Cosby.
339
00:13:52,957 --> 00:13:54,375
[reporter] Cosby drugged and
assaulted them decades ago.
340
00:13:54,416 --> 00:13:56,043
I was drugged and raped
by Bill Cosby.
341
00:13:56,085 --> 00:13:57,211
[reporter] ...claimed she was
drugged and raped by Cosby.
342
00:13:57,253 --> 00:13:58,462
-Bill Cosby made me a victim.
343
00:13:58,504 --> 00:13:59,672
-This was not--
-I said, "Where's my dress?"
344
00:13:59,713 --> 00:14:00,840
[reporter]
...and the number of women
345
00:14:00,881 --> 00:14:02,258
leveling charges
against him is growing.
346
00:14:02,299 --> 00:14:03,968
I was barely conscious.
347
00:14:04,009 --> 00:14:05,469
[reporter] The accusations
just keep coming.
348
00:14:05,511 --> 00:14:07,221
-...with no clothes...
-He said, "You owe me."
349
00:14:07,263 --> 00:14:08,931
[reporter] The actor
and comedian has been accused
350
00:14:08,973 --> 00:14:10,850
by more than 50 women.
351
00:14:10,891 --> 00:14:13,811
soft music
352
00:14:13,853 --> 00:14:17,022
353
00:14:17,064 --> 00:14:19,567
For as shocking as it was
that he would have,
354
00:14:19,608 --> 00:14:22,236
you know, cheated on his wife,
355
00:14:22,278 --> 00:14:25,072
you were able
to sort of rationalize that
356
00:14:25,114 --> 00:14:29,493
and say, "Well,
Bill Cosby is a superstar.
357
00:14:29,535 --> 00:14:32,413
He has been famous
for about fifty-leven years.
358
00:14:32,454 --> 00:14:34,415
It's not
totally inconceivable
359
00:14:34,456 --> 00:14:36,333
that even Bill Cosby
360
00:14:36,375 --> 00:14:39,503
has fallen short of the glory
of God, as they say."
361
00:14:39,545 --> 00:14:41,922
But this was something else.
362
00:14:41,964 --> 00:14:43,674
You start hearing about--
wait, what?
363
00:14:43,716 --> 00:14:45,259
That not only did he cheat,
364
00:14:45,301 --> 00:14:47,052
but he might have
actually been,
365
00:14:47,094 --> 00:14:48,345
you know, a predator?
366
00:14:48,387 --> 00:14:51,432
He might have violated women?
This guy?
367
00:14:51,473 --> 00:14:54,476
It was impossible
to comprehend, impossible.
368
00:14:54,518 --> 00:14:57,605
It was just like, "No,
not Bill Cosby."
369
00:14:57,646 --> 00:14:59,899
It was very easy to believe
370
00:14:59,940 --> 00:15:02,568
that a white world
371
00:15:02,610 --> 00:15:05,112
that can't be
trusted generally
372
00:15:05,154 --> 00:15:07,781
as it relates
to matters of race
373
00:15:07,823 --> 00:15:09,867
would be more than willing
374
00:15:09,909 --> 00:15:13,454
to air
375
00:15:13,495 --> 00:15:16,665
grievances against Cosby
376
00:15:16,707 --> 00:15:20,753
that had some other kind
of ulterior motive.
377
00:15:20,794 --> 00:15:23,339
Lot of conspiracy theories
pop out about Bill Cosby.
378
00:15:23,380 --> 00:15:26,300
Maybe the most popular one is
that he was about to buy NBC
379
00:15:26,342 --> 00:15:28,469
when these allegations
come up.
380
00:15:28,510 --> 00:15:31,221
And, you know, they were not
gonna allow a Black man
381
00:15:31,263 --> 00:15:33,140
to have that much power
in media.
382
00:15:33,182 --> 00:15:34,767
And so they just,
383
00:15:34,808 --> 00:15:38,604
I don't know,
hired 68 women or something
384
00:15:38,646 --> 00:15:40,105
to lie about him.
385
00:15:40,147 --> 00:15:41,440
[Marc]
And there was no indication
386
00:15:41,482 --> 00:15:43,317
that NBC was gonna
sell to him anyway.
387
00:15:43,359 --> 00:15:45,069
And just to be clear,
388
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:46,820
NBC doesn't have
to sell it to him.
389
00:15:46,862 --> 00:15:48,656
So the logic of it is bizarre,
390
00:15:48,697 --> 00:15:50,491
but we go to such
extravagant lengths
391
00:15:50,532 --> 00:15:51,992
to avoid the obvious,
392
00:15:52,034 --> 00:15:53,786
which is
that someone did harm,
393
00:15:53,827 --> 00:15:55,412
and they need
to be held accountable.
394
00:15:55,454 --> 00:15:57,665
[Kamau] Lots of us had
a hard time accepting this.
395
00:15:57,706 --> 00:15:59,249
But for many people,
396
00:15:59,291 --> 00:16:02,211
this July 2015
New York magazine cover
397
00:16:02,252 --> 00:16:03,796
was the moment
the allegations
398
00:16:03,837 --> 00:16:05,589
really hit home.
399
00:16:05,631 --> 00:16:08,300
35 women and an empty chair
400
00:16:08,342 --> 00:16:11,387
to symbolize the women
who hadn't come forward.
401
00:16:11,428 --> 00:16:13,472
But for many Black folks,
402
00:16:13,514 --> 00:16:15,808
this just a white magazine
we don't read.
403
00:16:15,849 --> 00:16:17,351
How can we trust this?
404
00:16:17,393 --> 00:16:18,894
[Don] Kierna Mayo...
405
00:16:18,936 --> 00:16:20,688
[Kamau] It took
a Black magazine
406
00:16:20,729 --> 00:16:22,481
and, more importantly,
a Black woman
407
00:16:22,523 --> 00:16:23,691
to jump-start
the conversation
408
00:16:23,732 --> 00:16:24,942
in our community.
409
00:16:24,984 --> 00:16:29,029
The Cosby story
was reaching a crescendo.
410
00:16:29,071 --> 00:16:31,949
All 60 women had not
come out at the time,
411
00:16:31,991 --> 00:16:35,035
but there were enough
that we couldn't deny
412
00:16:35,077 --> 00:16:37,538
that the most
urgent conversation
413
00:16:37,579 --> 00:16:40,207
was centered around Cosby.
414
00:16:40,249 --> 00:16:43,210
We know that we need
to disrupt the idea
415
00:16:43,252 --> 00:16:44,878
that this family
is still intact,
416
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,338
'cause not only are
the Huxtables
417
00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:47,673
no longer intact,
418
00:16:47,715 --> 00:16:49,883
but our families,
Black families,
419
00:16:49,925 --> 00:16:52,970
as a result of this
conversation, feel broken.
420
00:16:53,012 --> 00:16:54,513
People are
pretty upset tonight
421
00:16:54,555 --> 00:16:57,141
about the cover of November's
EBONY magazine.
422
00:16:57,182 --> 00:17:00,728
[Kierna] We realized
that being EBONY magazine,
423
00:17:00,769 --> 00:17:02,855
the oldest Black publication,
424
00:17:02,896 --> 00:17:07,317
the most venerable Black
publication in the country,
425
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,320
that we just had a real
serious responsibility.
426
00:17:10,362 --> 00:17:13,157
Because EBONY itself
had a legacy,
427
00:17:13,198 --> 00:17:18,120
and that legacy
usually was about uplift.
428
00:17:18,162 --> 00:17:21,415
That legacy
prior to that moment
429
00:17:21,457 --> 00:17:24,376
had not been about
critical analysis.
430
00:17:24,418 --> 00:17:27,421
It had been about
Black excellence on display.
431
00:17:27,463 --> 00:17:30,966
So it was scary as hell,
432
00:17:31,008 --> 00:17:33,343
and almost immediately,
433
00:17:33,385 --> 00:17:35,888
we started getting
a lot of criticism.
434
00:17:35,929 --> 00:17:37,097
People are mad.
435
00:17:37,139 --> 00:17:39,058
I mean, they are mad
at this cover
436
00:17:39,099 --> 00:17:42,061
because they believe
that EBONY magazine,
437
00:17:42,102 --> 00:17:44,438
I think, is supposed
to show glowing images
438
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,231
all the time
of African Americans.
439
00:17:46,273 --> 00:17:48,942
[Kierna] And so that began
an onslaught of attacks
440
00:17:48,984 --> 00:17:51,570
directed toward
me personally.
441
00:17:51,612 --> 00:17:54,448
But at the time,
the best we could do
442
00:17:54,490 --> 00:17:56,784
was think about a way
that we could anchor this
443
00:17:56,825 --> 00:17:58,619
so that it was unavoidable,
444
00:17:58,660 --> 00:18:00,662
so that every household
in America,
445
00:18:00,704 --> 00:18:01,955
to the extent
that Black folks
446
00:18:01,997 --> 00:18:03,624
were still subscribing
to EBONY,
447
00:18:03,665 --> 00:18:05,084
they had to engage.
448
00:18:05,125 --> 00:18:06,710
There was no more running,
you know?
449
00:18:06,752 --> 00:18:08,587
The only way out is through.
450
00:18:08,629 --> 00:18:11,340
soft tense music
451
00:18:11,381 --> 00:18:16,178
I have been in this business
52 years,
452
00:18:16,220 --> 00:18:18,514
and I will--
453
00:18:18,555 --> 00:18:20,557
I've never seen
anything like this.
454
00:18:20,599 --> 00:18:23,602
This is about
the obliteration of legacy.
455
00:18:23,644 --> 00:18:27,231
In America, still--
I know it's a shock,
456
00:18:27,272 --> 00:18:29,483
but you actually were innocent
457
00:18:29,525 --> 00:18:31,401
-Until proven guilty.
-Until proven guilty.
458
00:18:31,443 --> 00:18:33,612
This story, initially,
459
00:18:33,654 --> 00:18:36,323
was seen as white women
460
00:18:36,365 --> 00:18:39,368
accusing a Black man
461
00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:41,829
of sexual impropriety.
462
00:18:41,870 --> 00:18:45,165
And that,
for African Americans,
463
00:18:45,207 --> 00:18:47,668
caused us to go, "Hold up.
464
00:18:47,709 --> 00:18:49,336
What's going on here?"
465
00:18:49,378 --> 00:18:51,755
As Black people,
466
00:18:51,797 --> 00:18:54,174
we gonna give you
about 15 chances.
467
00:18:54,216 --> 00:18:56,426
You know what I mean?
R. Kelly? Bullshit!
468
00:18:56,468 --> 00:18:58,345
OJ? Come on!
469
00:18:58,387 --> 00:19:00,305
We don't give in that easy.
470
00:19:00,347 --> 00:19:03,308
You really gonna have to have
some scientific proof
471
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:05,018
that this really happened,
'cause they know--
472
00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:07,396
We know they love
taking down our heroes.
473
00:19:07,437 --> 00:19:10,065
So I just didn't think
that this guy,
474
00:19:10,107 --> 00:19:12,317
Mr. Huxtable,
Mr. Jell-O Pudding,
475
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,987
was doing this
to these women.
476
00:19:15,028 --> 00:19:19,158
Black men have generally not
been standing up to defend us.
477
00:19:19,199 --> 00:19:21,034
They haven't,
and unfortunately,
478
00:19:21,076 --> 00:19:23,912
it's very sad for me to say,
but it has been the Black man
479
00:19:23,954 --> 00:19:26,748
who has been
my worst enemy in this.
480
00:19:26,790 --> 00:19:28,709
Just attacking me,
blaming, shaming me.
481
00:19:28,750 --> 00:19:31,170
Like, "How dare you
speak out against Bill Cosby?
482
00:19:31,211 --> 00:19:32,880
He's an icon."
483
00:19:32,921 --> 00:19:35,591
[Kamau] Look, I know
Lili is telling the truth
484
00:19:35,632 --> 00:19:37,759
'cause I've seen it.
485
00:19:37,801 --> 00:19:39,678
America has a history
and a present
486
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,346
of turning its back
on Black women,
487
00:19:41,388 --> 00:19:42,973
and women overall,
488
00:19:43,015 --> 00:19:45,517
who experience
sexual assault and rape.
489
00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:48,478
[applause]
490
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,689
And unfortunately
for many Black men,
491
00:19:50,731 --> 00:19:53,150
we feel like
we know Bill Cosby,
492
00:19:53,192 --> 00:19:54,902
so we want
to take up for him.
493
00:19:54,943 --> 00:19:56,695
[reporter] ...claims she was
drugged and raped by Cosby.
494
00:19:56,737 --> 00:19:58,155
[Kamau] And since we don't
know these women,
495
00:19:58,197 --> 00:20:00,240
we don't take up for them.
496
00:20:00,282 --> 00:20:02,075
That's the frustrating part.
497
00:20:02,117 --> 00:20:05,204
Sometimes you don't believe
until rape or sexual assault
498
00:20:05,245 --> 00:20:06,914
happens to someone you know.
499
00:20:06,955 --> 00:20:08,582
I didn't believe
none of them women.
500
00:20:08,624 --> 00:20:11,710
Whatever it was, 36 women.
I was like, "Yeah."
501
00:20:11,752 --> 00:20:13,378
And they were like,
"All the stories match."
502
00:20:13,420 --> 00:20:16,381
I go, "She heard her
yesterday on The Today Show,
503
00:20:16,423 --> 00:20:18,383
and she heard her
on Good Morning America,
504
00:20:18,425 --> 00:20:20,260
and she read about her
in L.A. Times,
505
00:20:20,302 --> 00:20:21,762
and they made
their stories match.
506
00:20:21,803 --> 00:20:24,056
It wasn't until...
507
00:20:24,097 --> 00:20:26,850
I saw
Beverly Johnson's interview.
508
00:20:26,892 --> 00:20:29,853
Please welcome
Beverly Johnson.
509
00:20:31,605 --> 00:20:33,440
And the way her face looked.
510
00:20:33,482 --> 00:20:35,609
And I'm friends with her.
I play golf with her.
511
00:20:35,651 --> 00:20:36,944
She said--I think--
512
00:20:36,985 --> 00:20:38,111
I can't remember
why she said it.
513
00:20:38,153 --> 00:20:40,072
She said she went
to go visit him...
514
00:20:40,113 --> 00:20:43,075
And then he started to make
this cappuccino
515
00:20:43,116 --> 00:20:45,285
and offered me
a cup of cappuccino...
516
00:20:45,327 --> 00:20:46,411
[Chris] He gave her a drink.
517
00:20:46,453 --> 00:20:48,580
I really don't want
to drink it.
518
00:20:48,622 --> 00:20:50,999
And he insisted that I drink
this cappuccino.
519
00:20:51,041 --> 00:20:52,125
[Chris] And she drank it...
520
00:20:52,167 --> 00:20:53,794
So I took a sip
of the cappuccino
521
00:20:53,835 --> 00:20:57,673
and I said, "Hmm."
522
00:20:57,714 --> 00:21:01,718
And at that moment,
I knew I had been drugged.
523
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:02,928
[Chris] And then she looked
at him and said...
524
00:21:02,970 --> 00:21:05,055
You're a [bleep].
525
00:21:05,097 --> 00:21:07,557
"You motherfucker."
526
00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:11,478
And the way she said that shit
made me go,
527
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,731
"Okay, there may be
something to it."
528
00:21:14,773 --> 00:21:16,316
I was like, "Oh, they're lying
529
00:21:16,358 --> 00:21:17,943
or exaggerating.
530
00:21:17,985 --> 00:21:20,404
I know that shit
did not happen like that."
531
00:21:20,445 --> 00:21:22,948
But then what happened was,
532
00:21:22,990 --> 00:21:26,368
I bump into this friend
from years ago.
533
00:21:28,495 --> 00:21:31,748
"Oh, hey, before you go,
534
00:21:31,790 --> 00:21:33,500
can I ask you something?"
535
00:21:33,542 --> 00:21:34,960
"Go ahead, ask."
536
00:21:35,002 --> 00:21:37,462
"So back in the day,
537
00:21:37,504 --> 00:21:40,299
you know, you were
really close with Bill
538
00:21:40,340 --> 00:21:43,885
and I just was curious,
539
00:21:43,927 --> 00:21:45,721
did he ever try anything
with you?"
540
00:21:47,014 --> 00:21:49,683
Silence,
tears start coming down.
541
00:21:49,725 --> 00:21:52,686
So we sit in my car,
and, I don't know,
542
00:21:52,728 --> 00:21:54,855
it was an hour later,
something like that,
543
00:21:54,896 --> 00:21:57,816
she spilled it all out,
544
00:21:57,858 --> 00:22:00,736
and she says to me,
"Do you believe me?"
545
00:22:02,446 --> 00:22:04,614
And said,
"Yes, I believe you."
546
00:22:04,656 --> 00:22:06,867
She wasn't lying.
547
00:22:06,908 --> 00:22:10,037
So he at least did it to her,
and if he did it to her,
548
00:22:10,078 --> 00:22:14,333
then yes, I believe
that there were other women
549
00:22:14,374 --> 00:22:17,711
who were claiming--
I believe them.
550
00:22:17,753 --> 00:22:20,047
[Kamau] And I get where
the backlash comes from,
551
00:22:20,088 --> 00:22:22,049
because America has regularly
552
00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:24,718
and repeatedly
wrongfully accused,
553
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,554
wrongfully imprisoned,
and straight-up murdered
554
00:22:27,596 --> 00:22:29,431
Black men for nothing.
555
00:22:32,893 --> 00:22:34,478
So out of that
comes a general feeling
556
00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:36,063
in the Black community
557
00:22:36,104 --> 00:22:39,483
that Black men need to be
protected at all costs,
558
00:22:39,524 --> 00:22:41,610
even if their crimes
are awful.
559
00:22:43,945 --> 00:22:46,782
Okay, so people think that
it's a conspiracy, right?
560
00:22:46,823 --> 00:22:48,367
That a bunch of white women
are trying to take
561
00:22:48,408 --> 00:22:49,368
Bill Cosby down?
562
00:22:49,409 --> 00:22:50,911
Well, a third of us,
563
00:22:50,952 --> 00:22:53,914
of his public survivors,
are Black women.
564
00:22:53,955 --> 00:22:56,625
There was this idea
that, you know, he's being
565
00:22:56,666 --> 00:22:58,627
Emmett Till-ed, if you will,
566
00:22:58,668 --> 00:22:59,878
because these are white women
567
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:01,755
making these accusations
against a Black man,
568
00:23:01,797 --> 00:23:04,966
except it wasn't
only white women.
569
00:23:05,008 --> 00:23:06,593
People kind of, like,
cut that part out,
570
00:23:06,635 --> 00:23:08,095
that there were Black women
571
00:23:08,136 --> 00:23:09,554
and, in the case of someone
like Beverly Johnson,
572
00:23:09,596 --> 00:23:12,015
a very well-known Black woman.
573
00:23:12,057 --> 00:23:13,725
But that didn't fit
the particular narrative
574
00:23:13,767 --> 00:23:15,435
that they were trying to sell.
575
00:23:15,477 --> 00:23:18,605
But we were talking suddenly
about dozens of women.
576
00:23:18,647 --> 00:23:20,774
And I think at some point,
577
00:23:20,816 --> 00:23:23,443
the count stopped
at, like, 60.
578
00:23:23,485 --> 00:23:25,195
And you knew,
579
00:23:25,237 --> 00:23:27,072
at least I felt I knew
as a woman,
580
00:23:27,114 --> 00:23:28,865
if it was 60,
581
00:23:28,907 --> 00:23:31,493
it was probably 120 or 150.
582
00:23:32,828 --> 00:23:34,746
[sighs]
583
00:23:34,788 --> 00:23:37,457
Deep Black girl sigh.
[chuckles]
584
00:23:37,499 --> 00:23:39,292
Bill Cosby was not lynched.
585
00:23:39,334 --> 00:23:42,212
Bill Cosby actively chose
to be a perpetrator,
586
00:23:42,254 --> 00:23:45,132
You know, this is when
Black protectionism goes bad.
587
00:23:45,173 --> 00:23:47,717
For Black women in particular,
588
00:23:47,759 --> 00:23:50,178
when you have
to tell your story,
589
00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:54,683
and your story involves
a Black male perpetrator,
590
00:23:54,724 --> 00:23:58,437
what you carry is so much more
than just the weight
591
00:23:58,478 --> 00:24:01,940
of having been
sexually assaulted.
592
00:24:01,982 --> 00:24:04,025
There is
a psychological burden
593
00:24:04,067 --> 00:24:06,903
that is unbelievable.
594
00:24:06,945 --> 00:24:08,363
It's very real.
595
00:24:08,405 --> 00:24:10,282
Just as it was true
for R. Kelly,
596
00:24:10,323 --> 00:24:12,784
it's been true for Bill Cosby,
it's been true
597
00:24:12,826 --> 00:24:14,578
for other predators
in the Black community
598
00:24:14,619 --> 00:24:16,538
that the popular culture
didn't care enough
599
00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:19,374
about the victims
to pick up the narrative.
600
00:24:19,416 --> 00:24:22,335
It's often been Black women
keeping that narrative alive.
601
00:24:22,377 --> 00:24:24,463
But no, it's tough
being a sister saying,
602
00:24:24,504 --> 00:24:27,632
"No, Bill Cosby
probably raped that woman."
603
00:24:27,674 --> 00:24:30,343
Saying it not just
on television and in essays,
604
00:24:30,385 --> 00:24:32,179
which is one place to do it,
605
00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:35,515
but saying it in your home,
saying it at the cookout.
606
00:24:35,557 --> 00:24:37,476
-[all] Stop the rape!
-[Kamau] And let's be clear.
607
00:24:37,517 --> 00:24:39,186
It's often the Black women
doing the work
608
00:24:39,227 --> 00:24:40,687
to protect our community.
609
00:24:40,729 --> 00:24:42,022
Look at Tarana Burke
610
00:24:42,063 --> 00:24:44,316
and the #MeToo movement
she started,
611
00:24:44,357 --> 00:24:46,151
Dream Hampton
and her docuseries,
612
00:24:46,193 --> 00:24:48,195
Surviving R. Kelly,
613
00:24:48,236 --> 00:24:50,989
and Kenyette Barnes
and Oronike Odeleye,
614
00:24:51,031 --> 00:24:52,866
founders of
the Mute R. Kelly campaign.
615
00:24:52,908 --> 00:24:54,201
[all] We love you.
616
00:24:54,242 --> 00:24:55,869
[Kamau] They did the big work
617
00:24:55,911 --> 00:24:57,829
that the criminal justice
system refused to do.
618
00:24:57,871 --> 00:24:59,623
-[protestor] No justice--
-[all] No peace.
619
00:24:59,664 --> 00:25:04,002
NBC canceled plans
for a Bill Cosby sitcom.
620
00:25:04,044 --> 00:25:05,253
[reporter] The comedian was
set to make his return
621
00:25:05,295 --> 00:25:06,630
to the small screen
with the network
622
00:25:06,671 --> 00:25:08,298
that made him a star
in a new family comedy.
623
00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:09,799
NBC has elected
to drop the project
624
00:25:09,841 --> 00:25:11,092
in light of recent events.
625
00:25:11,134 --> 00:25:12,260
[Maureen]
The head of NBC at the time,
626
00:25:12,302 --> 00:25:13,803
Bob Greenblatt, said,
627
00:25:13,845 --> 00:25:16,139
"Well, we were aware
of allegations."
628
00:25:16,181 --> 00:25:17,891
Plural.
629
00:25:17,933 --> 00:25:19,559
And I'm paraphrasing
what he said,
630
00:25:19,601 --> 00:25:22,020
but "We were aware
that there were settlements."
631
00:25:23,146 --> 00:25:24,439
Plural.
632
00:25:25,982 --> 00:25:27,859
But they did the deal anyway.
633
00:25:29,528 --> 00:25:31,655
And then he says
something like,
634
00:25:31,696 --> 00:25:33,240
"Well, because now,
it's 15 women.
635
00:25:33,281 --> 00:25:35,700
It's not just two."
636
00:25:35,742 --> 00:25:37,536
That's one of those days
where I'm like,
637
00:25:37,577 --> 00:25:39,079
"Launch this whole
motherfucking industry
638
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:40,914
into the Sun."
639
00:25:40,956 --> 00:25:43,875
soft dramatic music
640
00:25:43,917 --> 00:25:45,418
641
00:25:45,460 --> 00:25:48,880
We see what happens
to individuals who come
642
00:25:48,922 --> 00:25:51,758
and make allegations
of sexual assault.
643
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,762
They find themselves
vilified, discredited.
644
00:25:55,804 --> 00:25:59,224
Every part of their background
gets hauled into question.
645
00:25:59,266 --> 00:26:00,767
"You drank too much.
646
00:26:00,809 --> 00:26:04,354
You slept
with too many people.
647
00:26:04,396 --> 00:26:06,815
You didn't report.
You're a liar."
648
00:26:06,856 --> 00:26:08,275
[reporter]
What has held you back
649
00:26:08,316 --> 00:26:10,819
all these years from
telling this story in detail?
650
00:26:10,860 --> 00:26:12,571
The big question
for a lot of people
651
00:26:12,612 --> 00:26:13,822
is, why now?
652
00:26:13,863 --> 00:26:14,990
Did you call anyone?
653
00:26:15,031 --> 00:26:16,074
Do you call the police?
654
00:26:16,116 --> 00:26:17,409
Do you tell a girlfriend?
655
00:26:17,450 --> 00:26:19,411
Do you tell your mother?
Do you tell anyone?
656
00:26:19,452 --> 00:26:21,204
Why have you waited so long?
657
00:26:21,246 --> 00:26:23,331
You took the pill.
You drank the alcohol.
658
00:26:23,373 --> 00:26:24,749
...and you put yourself
in a position
659
00:26:24,791 --> 00:26:26,918
to be close to him again.
Why would you do that?
660
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,461
What were you doing
to take that drink?
661
00:26:28,503 --> 00:26:30,130
What were you doing there
at 2 a.m.?
662
00:26:30,171 --> 00:26:31,590
That's rape culture.
663
00:26:32,591 --> 00:26:34,551
[Lise-Lotte]
I remember telling my mom,
664
00:26:34,593 --> 00:26:38,763
"Mom, I drank some alcohol,
and I just don't remember,
665
00:26:38,805 --> 00:26:41,558
and, oh, my God,
he's just never--
666
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,977
I made an idiot of myself,
you know?"
667
00:26:44,019 --> 00:26:47,397
The funny part is,
I did tell this story
668
00:26:47,439 --> 00:26:50,150
to multiple people
within the family.
669
00:26:50,191 --> 00:26:53,111
So when my husband said,
670
00:26:53,153 --> 00:26:54,654
"I want you to watch
this interview.
671
00:26:54,696 --> 00:26:56,823
You have to look
at this interview,"
672
00:26:56,865 --> 00:26:58,700
and I'm thinking to myself,
"What are you talking about?
673
00:26:58,742 --> 00:27:01,328
You know,
why is this so urgent?"
674
00:27:01,369 --> 00:27:04,998
And he has to initiate,
he has to bring it out of me,
675
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,916
because I start to shut down.
676
00:27:06,958 --> 00:27:08,209
And I'm getting--you can see
677
00:27:08,251 --> 00:27:09,502
I'm getting shaky from it,
but--
678
00:27:11,129 --> 00:27:12,714
Okay.
679
00:27:12,756 --> 00:27:13,965
[Kamau] One thing
survivors of rape
680
00:27:14,007 --> 00:27:15,717
and sexual assault need
681
00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:17,552
is someone who is
on their side.
682
00:27:17,594 --> 00:27:19,137
-[Lise-Lotte] Hello.
-[Benjamin] Hi.
683
00:27:19,179 --> 00:27:20,639
[Kamau] Many don't have
that person.
684
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,933
But Lise,
she's got that person.
685
00:27:23,975 --> 00:27:25,852
Why are you so far away?
Come here.
686
00:27:25,894 --> 00:27:27,520
[both laugh]
687
00:27:27,562 --> 00:27:29,397
Give me a kiss.
688
00:27:29,439 --> 00:27:32,901
-How you doing?
-Good. All right.
689
00:27:35,862 --> 00:27:40,450
You know, I do a lot of--
I go online,
690
00:27:40,492 --> 00:27:43,536
I always watch CNN,
Yahoo News,
691
00:27:43,578 --> 00:27:45,038
Fox News, you name it.
692
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,374
So I saw the video
of Janice Dickenson.
693
00:27:47,415 --> 00:27:49,334
He had given me wine
694
00:27:49,376 --> 00:27:51,544
and I had been
695
00:27:51,586 --> 00:27:53,171
sexually assaulted
by this man.
696
00:27:53,213 --> 00:27:54,381
[Benjamin] And it was like
697
00:27:54,422 --> 00:27:55,840
check marks started
to go off.
698
00:27:55,882 --> 00:27:56,966
It's like, "Check mark,
that's just like Lise.
699
00:27:57,008 --> 00:27:58,218
Check mark,
that's just like Lise.
700
00:27:58,259 --> 00:28:00,595
Check mark,
that's just like Lise."
701
00:28:00,637 --> 00:28:04,057
I sent her the video,
and I said, you know,
702
00:28:04,099 --> 00:28:05,725
"Give me a call
after you see it,
703
00:28:05,767 --> 00:28:08,061
like, right when
you're done."
704
00:28:08,103 --> 00:28:11,439
And so she walks
through the door,
705
00:28:11,481 --> 00:28:13,900
and it's like,
nothing, you know?
706
00:28:13,942 --> 00:28:16,111
So I turned to her
and I look at her
707
00:28:16,152 --> 00:28:19,322
and I said,
"Hey, did you see that?
708
00:28:19,364 --> 00:28:21,241
The interview
with Janice Dickenson."
709
00:28:21,282 --> 00:28:24,035
She said, "Yeah, you know,
I saw the interview."
710
00:28:24,077 --> 00:28:25,662
I said, "So what did you think
about it?"
711
00:28:25,704 --> 00:28:28,081
She goes, "I don't know
what to think of it."
712
00:28:28,123 --> 00:28:31,042
And I think later in the day,
713
00:28:31,084 --> 00:28:34,379
I watched it again
and I watched it again
714
00:28:34,421 --> 00:28:37,841
and I was like, "Oh, my God.
715
00:28:37,882 --> 00:28:39,884
This is real," you know?
716
00:28:39,926 --> 00:28:41,302
Yeah.
717
00:28:41,344 --> 00:28:43,722
And then I knew that she knew.
718
00:28:43,763 --> 00:28:46,015
And now, this process of,
719
00:28:46,057 --> 00:28:48,977
"Where do we go
from here and...
720
00:28:49,018 --> 00:28:54,065
what have we started?" begins.
721
00:28:54,107 --> 00:28:57,193
Bill Cosby appears to think
that rape is a joke.
722
00:28:57,235 --> 00:28:59,320
Well, let me
tell you something, Bill.
723
00:28:59,362 --> 00:29:01,489
I'm not laughing.
724
00:29:01,531 --> 00:29:04,826
I'm furious, and I've decided
to fight for my rights
725
00:29:04,868 --> 00:29:07,537
and the rights of every man,
woman, and child
726
00:29:07,579 --> 00:29:09,622
who have been victimized
by sexual crime.
727
00:29:11,458 --> 00:29:13,001
[Lili] I'm going
through a divorce now,
728
00:29:13,042 --> 00:29:15,211
but my soon-to-be ex-husband,
729
00:29:15,253 --> 00:29:17,547
he was
very instrumentally trying
730
00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:20,258
to prevent me
from going public.
731
00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:21,509
He was like,
"You can't go public!
732
00:29:21,551 --> 00:29:22,719
You can't go public!"
733
00:29:22,761 --> 00:29:23,887
I was like,
"I have to go public!"
734
00:29:23,928 --> 00:29:25,013
"You can't.
You're gonna be a--
735
00:29:25,054 --> 00:29:26,222
look at what's happening
to the women.
736
00:29:26,264 --> 00:29:27,724
They're gonna shame you
and blame you,
737
00:29:27,766 --> 00:29:29,601
and it was your fault anyway,
738
00:29:29,642 --> 00:29:30,643
and why'd you go to his house
739
00:29:30,685 --> 00:29:31,603
and"--
[buzzes]
740
00:29:31,644 --> 00:29:32,979
And in the argument like this,
741
00:29:33,021 --> 00:29:33,938
down comes Rafael.
742
00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:36,107
He's like, "Mom, you mean--
743
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:37,275
this happened to you, Mom?
744
00:29:37,317 --> 00:29:38,485
Why are you silent?
745
00:29:38,526 --> 00:29:40,278
Mom, you got to speak out.
746
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,407
Mom, speak out.
Speak out, Mom. Speak out."
747
00:29:44,449 --> 00:29:48,244
So because of him,
I spoke out.
748
00:29:48,286 --> 00:29:50,830
After he had won
my complete trust
749
00:29:50,872 --> 00:29:53,166
and adoration,
750
00:29:53,208 --> 00:29:55,126
he drugged and raped me.
751
00:29:56,461 --> 00:29:57,504
Good evening.
752
00:29:57,545 --> 00:29:59,172
Tonight,
new and graphic details
753
00:29:59,214 --> 00:30:01,090
about Bill Cosby's
own admission
754
00:30:01,132 --> 00:30:02,926
concerning drugs, hush money,
755
00:30:02,967 --> 00:30:04,844
and sexual assault
allegations.
756
00:30:04,886 --> 00:30:08,097
The question was, why then?
757
00:30:08,139 --> 00:30:11,851
Andrea Constand had filed
her lawsuit prior to that.
758
00:30:11,893 --> 00:30:15,104
Thirteen Jane Does
came forward
759
00:30:15,146 --> 00:30:17,524
to say they would testify.
760
00:30:18,191 --> 00:30:22,487
Then it settled, and then
we didn't hear anything more.
761
00:30:22,529 --> 00:30:26,199
For that civil suit,
Cosby was deposed.
762
00:30:26,241 --> 00:30:29,160
But there was agreement
763
00:30:29,202 --> 00:30:31,329
that that deposition
be sealed.
764
00:30:31,371 --> 00:30:33,915
Nobody was ever able
to see it.
765
00:30:33,957 --> 00:30:38,837
The judge argued
because he had
766
00:30:38,878 --> 00:30:40,421
kind of branded himself
767
00:30:40,463 --> 00:30:44,551
as this public moralist
during these callouts,
768
00:30:44,592 --> 00:30:46,886
telling, you know,
poor Black people
769
00:30:46,928 --> 00:30:51,391
to pull their pants up
and disparaging single moms,
770
00:30:51,432 --> 00:30:53,685
this deposition
should be unsealed.
771
00:30:53,726 --> 00:30:57,188
And when that deposition
was unsealed,
772
00:30:57,230 --> 00:30:59,607
Cosby's own words sunk him.
773
00:30:59,649 --> 00:31:01,359
[reporter]
In a 2005 deposition,
774
00:31:01,401 --> 00:31:03,236
Cosby admitted under oath
775
00:31:03,278 --> 00:31:04,821
that he got a sedative
776
00:31:04,863 --> 00:31:07,198
for the purpose
of giving it to women
777
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,409
with whom he wanted
to have sex.
778
00:31:09,450 --> 00:31:11,077
[Kamau] Now, if you were
a person who believed
779
00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:14,247
Bill Cosby was capable
of sexual assault and rape,
780
00:31:14,289 --> 00:31:16,416
then this was
all the evidence you needed.
781
00:31:19,294 --> 00:31:21,754
But if you were
a Bill Cosby defender,
782
00:31:21,796 --> 00:31:23,172
then you could frame this
783
00:31:23,214 --> 00:31:25,008
as Bill Cosby
just being a celebrity
784
00:31:25,049 --> 00:31:28,595
whose idea of a good time
included drugs and sex.
785
00:31:28,636 --> 00:31:29,929
But Bill Cosby said
786
00:31:29,971 --> 00:31:31,431
something else
in this deposition
787
00:31:31,472 --> 00:31:33,099
which, as far
as I'm concerned,
788
00:31:33,141 --> 00:31:35,435
ends any debate.
789
00:31:35,476 --> 00:31:37,020
[reporter] Cosby said
the sexual encounters
790
00:31:37,061 --> 00:31:39,439
with Constand
were consensual.
791
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,608
"I don't hear her
say anything," he said,
792
00:31:50,867 --> 00:31:52,660
[Gloria] If Bill Cosby,
793
00:31:52,702 --> 00:31:54,621
or any other person,
794
00:31:54,662 --> 00:31:58,291
is drugging a woman,
795
00:31:58,333 --> 00:32:01,711
he knows
that she cannot consent.
796
00:32:01,753 --> 00:32:04,547
That's why he's drugging her.
797
00:32:04,589 --> 00:32:07,300
I must have read that
50 different times
798
00:32:07,342 --> 00:32:11,804
and cringed 50 different ways
each time I read it.
799
00:32:11,846 --> 00:32:13,806
I mean, anybody,
800
00:32:13,848 --> 00:32:17,060
certainly someone as
intelligent as Bill Cosby,
801
00:32:17,101 --> 00:32:19,062
understands that if it's not
802
00:32:19,103 --> 00:32:22,148
a resounding yes
from the woman,
803
00:32:22,190 --> 00:32:23,316
then it's a no.
804
00:32:23,358 --> 00:32:26,152
Bill Cosby was
a rich and funny
805
00:32:26,194 --> 00:32:29,489
and, I'm sure,
very bright man.
806
00:32:29,530 --> 00:32:32,325
He could have had sex
with somebody
807
00:32:32,367 --> 00:32:35,286
who agreed
to have sex with him.
808
00:32:35,328 --> 00:32:38,623
But he wanted to have sex
with unconscious women,
809
00:32:38,665 --> 00:32:40,333
and that's deviant.
810
00:32:40,375 --> 00:32:42,502
If we actually grappled
with the fact
811
00:32:42,543 --> 00:32:45,171
that sex negativity is
what causes
812
00:32:45,213 --> 00:32:47,465
this type of behavior,
813
00:32:47,507 --> 00:32:50,802
then we could create a world
814
00:32:50,843 --> 00:32:55,014
where, in an idyllically
sex-positive world,
815
00:32:55,056 --> 00:32:58,851
someone is able to pay
conscious women
816
00:32:58,893 --> 00:33:02,814
to come and be drugged
so that I can get my kink out,
817
00:33:02,855 --> 00:33:05,525
my fetish on having sex
with unconscious people.
818
00:33:05,566 --> 00:33:07,610
There's a consensual way
to do that.
819
00:33:07,652 --> 00:33:09,404
I think one of the reasons
that it was difficult
820
00:33:09,445 --> 00:33:13,366
for people to really accept
821
00:33:13,408 --> 00:33:16,536
that Cosby was
822
00:33:16,577 --> 00:33:20,206
what he ultimately is
823
00:33:20,248 --> 00:33:22,166
is that I don't think
that people were willing
824
00:33:22,208 --> 00:33:24,293
to countenance
825
00:33:24,335 --> 00:33:28,172
that kind of exponent
of hypocrisy.
826
00:33:28,214 --> 00:33:32,885
It's just so different
if someone trusts you
827
00:33:32,927 --> 00:33:34,721
and you drug that person.
828
00:33:36,556 --> 00:33:39,308
You know,
that's where I struggle,
829
00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:43,021
because here's a guy
I love on one level,
830
00:33:43,062 --> 00:33:46,524
but...
831
00:33:46,566 --> 00:33:50,403
you do that to someone,
you're a fucking monster.
832
00:33:51,988 --> 00:33:54,115
You're a fucking monster.
833
00:33:55,616 --> 00:33:59,704
Bill Cosby gave you
a very clear pattern
834
00:33:59,746 --> 00:34:00,872
that he engaged in.
835
00:34:00,913 --> 00:34:02,540
He told you what he did.
836
00:34:02,582 --> 00:34:04,333
He told you about the pills,
837
00:34:04,375 --> 00:34:06,002
he told you
that they went in drinks.
838
00:34:06,044 --> 00:34:07,670
You took a little drop
839
00:34:07,712 --> 00:34:09,213
-and you put it in a drink.
-Drop it in the Coca-Cola.
840
00:34:09,255 --> 00:34:12,800
He made that very clear
without anybody else's help,
841
00:34:12,842 --> 00:34:14,635
without any witness testimony,
842
00:34:14,677 --> 00:34:17,346
without any other
circumstantial evidence.
843
00:34:17,388 --> 00:34:19,557
If I just go by
what Bill Cosby tells me,
844
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:20,767
I know he's a creep.
845
00:34:20,808 --> 00:34:22,518
Haven't you ever noticed
after people have
846
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,355
some of my barbecue sauce,
they get all huggy-buggy?
847
00:34:26,397 --> 00:34:29,108
So if Bill Cosby tells us
all of that,
848
00:34:29,150 --> 00:34:31,444
why would I not believe
the dozens of women
849
00:34:31,486 --> 00:34:33,279
who have come forward
and corroborated
850
00:34:33,321 --> 00:34:35,114
the very same kinds
of stories?
851
00:34:35,156 --> 00:34:36,949
You know, there are, like,
little indicators of things
852
00:34:36,991 --> 00:34:38,367
that happened
that you just go,
853
00:34:38,409 --> 00:34:40,912
"Hmm, that was
a little different."
854
00:34:40,953 --> 00:34:44,707
And one of them was
this story, you know,
855
00:34:44,749 --> 00:34:46,918
that he told me
where he was like,
856
00:34:46,959 --> 00:34:49,295
"You know, life is good
in the movies or whatever.
857
00:34:49,337 --> 00:34:50,588
But you just be ready
858
00:34:50,630 --> 00:34:51,881
because when this movie
comes out,
859
00:34:51,923 --> 00:34:53,382
you're gonna need two [bleep]
860
00:34:53,424 --> 00:34:54,592
'cause the women are gonna
be all over you."
861
00:34:54,634 --> 00:34:55,635
I was like...
862
00:34:55,676 --> 00:34:59,472
[uncomfortable laughter]
863
00:34:59,514 --> 00:35:02,517
"No. What?"
864
00:35:02,558 --> 00:35:04,310
"I'm sorry, Dr. Huxtable,
what was that?"
865
00:35:04,352 --> 00:35:05,978
[laughter]
866
00:35:06,020 --> 00:35:10,149
A narcissist doesn't think
they're doing anything wrong.
867
00:35:10,191 --> 00:35:14,070
They think everybody else
is wrong, except for them.
868
00:35:14,112 --> 00:35:17,490
And I think that was
indicative of Bill Cosby.
869
00:35:17,532 --> 00:35:19,659
So if he drugged a woman,
870
00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:21,869
he didn't think
he was doing anything wrong.
871
00:35:21,911 --> 00:35:24,455
He thought, you know,
"This is okay
872
00:35:24,497 --> 00:35:26,040
because I'm Bill Cosby.
873
00:35:26,082 --> 00:35:27,917
I'm rich. I'm famous.
874
00:35:27,959 --> 00:35:29,836
I'm not getting away
with anything.
875
00:35:29,877 --> 00:35:32,421
I'm not doing anything wrong
in the first place."
876
00:35:32,463 --> 00:35:35,007
Yes, I'm gonna be
in Wheeling, West Virginia,
877
00:35:35,049 --> 00:35:36,968
Capital Music Hall.
878
00:35:37,009 --> 00:35:39,095
Eight o'clock show,
that's right.
879
00:35:39,137 --> 00:35:41,139
And you know
I'll be hilarious.
880
00:35:41,180 --> 00:35:42,598
Can't wait.
881
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:43,975
[reporter]
Well, despite facing
882
00:35:44,016 --> 00:35:45,017
two new allegations
of sexual assault,
883
00:35:45,059 --> 00:35:46,644
Bill Cosby is going on
884
00:35:46,686 --> 00:35:48,813
with his stand-up comedy tour
as planned.
885
00:35:48,855 --> 00:35:50,273
[cheers and applause]
886
00:35:50,314 --> 00:35:52,692
[Roland]
I wasn't shocked at all
887
00:35:52,733 --> 00:35:56,654
to see Bill Cosby go on tour
888
00:35:56,696 --> 00:35:58,948
in the middle
of this firestorm.
889
00:35:58,990 --> 00:36:02,326
This was Bill Cosby
saying, "Uh-uh.
890
00:36:02,368 --> 00:36:04,829
I'm not gonna go into hiding.
891
00:36:04,871 --> 00:36:06,330
I'm not going to buckle."
892
00:36:06,372 --> 00:36:07,415
[reporter]
Demonstrators are calling
893
00:36:07,456 --> 00:36:10,126
for Cosby to quit performing.
894
00:36:10,168 --> 00:36:13,838
He was cementing the fact
that he was finished
895
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,798
because when you're
far from finished,
896
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,134
you understand
the changing tides.
897
00:36:18,176 --> 00:36:20,178
And that's why
people started showing up
898
00:36:20,219 --> 00:36:22,638
and protesting, to say, "No,
899
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,558
the days of you being able
to do what you do
900
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,643
and carry on as though
nothing has happened
901
00:36:27,685 --> 00:36:28,811
is over, buddy.
902
00:36:28,853 --> 00:36:30,938
It's over."
903
00:36:30,980 --> 00:36:32,148
[reporter] Good afternoon,
and we're coming on the air
904
00:36:32,190 --> 00:36:33,399
with breaking news.
905
00:36:33,441 --> 00:36:35,359
Bill Cosby,
just a short time ago,
906
00:36:35,401 --> 00:36:37,486
arraigned on felony
sexual assault charges
907
00:36:37,528 --> 00:36:39,572
in a Pennsylvania courtroom.
908
00:36:39,614 --> 00:36:42,158
He's accused of drugging
and attacking a woman
909
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,202
in his home 12 years ago,
910
00:36:44,243 --> 00:36:45,745
the statute of limitations
in this case
911
00:36:45,786 --> 00:36:47,747
expiring next month.
912
00:36:47,788 --> 00:36:50,666
How did I feel
when Cosby was charged?
913
00:36:50,708 --> 00:36:54,587
I was elated
but a little bit wary
914
00:36:54,629 --> 00:36:57,256
that maybe justice
wouldn't be served.
915
00:36:57,298 --> 00:36:58,758
[reporter]
It is one of the most
916
00:36:58,799 --> 00:37:00,259
anticipated trials
of the year.
917
00:37:00,301 --> 00:37:01,719
[reporter] The actor
and comedian has been accused
918
00:37:01,761 --> 00:37:03,221
by more than 50 women.
919
00:37:03,262 --> 00:37:05,181
[Gloria]
In the Bill Cosby case,
920
00:37:05,223 --> 00:37:08,142
it was also very important
to have other women testify.
921
00:37:08,184 --> 00:37:11,854
These were witnesses
who also, for the most part,
922
00:37:11,896 --> 00:37:15,149
alleged that they were drugged
and sexually assaulted.
923
00:37:15,191 --> 00:37:18,110
The jury can conclude
924
00:37:18,152 --> 00:37:21,489
that because he had a pattern
of drugging women,
925
00:37:21,530 --> 00:37:23,616
he knew
they could not consent.
926
00:37:25,076 --> 00:37:27,245
The women that came forward
did not consent
927
00:37:27,286 --> 00:37:29,413
to be drugged
and unconscious.
928
00:37:29,455 --> 00:37:31,082
[Lili]
It was a three-ring circus
929
00:37:31,123 --> 00:37:32,458
in that courtroom, Kamau.
930
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:35,920
It was just like,
"Damn, those"--it was like--
931
00:37:35,962 --> 00:37:38,464
I was shocked to see
932
00:37:38,506 --> 00:37:40,758
how much revictimization
is allowed
933
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,803
in a rape trial.
934
00:37:43,844 --> 00:37:47,098
Well, I was hired
by the District Attorney
935
00:37:47,139 --> 00:37:51,269
in Bill Cosby's trial
to act as a blind expert.
936
00:37:51,310 --> 00:37:53,229
First of all,
you need to understand
937
00:37:53,271 --> 00:37:55,314
that I grew up
with Bill Cosby, too.
938
00:37:55,356 --> 00:37:58,067
And I loved him.
939
00:37:58,109 --> 00:38:01,028
I thought
that he was really funny.
940
00:38:01,070 --> 00:38:03,281
I didn't really look over
at Bill Cosby,
941
00:38:03,322 --> 00:38:04,907
except for during a break.
942
00:38:04,949 --> 00:38:08,286
And when I looked over at him
and he was smirking,
943
00:38:08,327 --> 00:38:12,790
his demeanor was
entirely consistent
944
00:38:12,832 --> 00:38:15,042
with every other sex offender
945
00:38:15,084 --> 00:38:18,045
that I'd ever testified
in front of, you know?
946
00:38:18,087 --> 00:38:20,589
And so I didn't have
even a moment
947
00:38:20,631 --> 00:38:25,469
of, you know,
feeling starstruck.
948
00:38:27,221 --> 00:38:29,515
[Janice] I was the lucky one
that got Tom Mesereau
949
00:38:29,557 --> 00:38:32,852
to cross-examine me.
950
00:38:32,893 --> 00:38:37,398
He had the nerve to ask me
so many stupid questions.
951
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,985
He tried to make it sound
like we were all whores,
952
00:38:41,027 --> 00:38:43,029
and what were we wearing
that night,
953
00:38:43,070 --> 00:38:45,281
and fuck him for that.
954
00:38:45,323 --> 00:38:47,366
He is an asshole.
955
00:38:47,408 --> 00:38:51,412
Susan B. Anthony said
courage is the best protection
956
00:38:51,454 --> 00:38:54,749
that a woman can have,
and I believe it.
957
00:38:55,916 --> 00:38:58,044
[Benjamin] I think seeing her
testify was--
958
00:38:58,085 --> 00:38:59,712
it was unbelievable.
959
00:38:59,754 --> 00:39:03,049
And she's sitting there,
you know, in the seat,
960
00:39:03,090 --> 00:39:05,384
and Cosby's,
you know, right across,
961
00:39:05,426 --> 00:39:07,219
throwing distance.
962
00:39:07,261 --> 00:39:08,346
They're asking her
the questions,
963
00:39:08,387 --> 00:39:09,555
"So what happened
on this date?
964
00:39:09,597 --> 00:39:11,265
What happened, you know--
and, you know,
965
00:39:11,307 --> 00:39:13,392
he gave you a drink,"
and all this.
966
00:39:13,434 --> 00:39:15,895
And you're sitting there
and you're able
967
00:39:15,936 --> 00:39:17,730
to tell your truth.
968
00:39:17,772 --> 00:39:20,066
It--
969
00:39:20,107 --> 00:39:22,526
you're the strongest woman
I've ever known.
970
00:39:22,568 --> 00:39:23,986
I've known.
971
00:39:32,370 --> 00:39:33,454
You are.
972
00:39:38,042 --> 00:39:39,627
I love you to death.
973
00:39:39,668 --> 00:39:41,796
I love you, too.
974
00:39:41,837 --> 00:39:44,548
tense music
975
00:39:44,590 --> 00:39:45,966
[reporter]
There is breaking news
976
00:39:46,008 --> 00:39:47,802
in Bill Cosby's
sexual assault retrial.
977
00:39:47,843 --> 00:39:49,428
There has been a verdict.
978
00:39:49,470 --> 00:39:52,598
The comedian, now 80, has been
found guilty on all counts.
979
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,266
[reporter]
A judge in Pennsylvania
980
00:39:54,308 --> 00:39:56,894
has just sentenced Bill Cosby
to no less than three
981
00:39:56,936 --> 00:39:59,605
and no more than ten years
behind bars.
982
00:40:10,157 --> 00:40:11,700
It felt awful.
983
00:40:13,244 --> 00:40:15,579
It felt really sad.
984
00:40:15,621 --> 00:40:17,123
It felt like--
985
00:40:18,666 --> 00:40:21,752
I mean, look,
986
00:40:21,794 --> 00:40:23,796
the reality is,
is he needed to go to prison.
987
00:40:23,838 --> 00:40:24,880
He's a criminal.
988
00:40:24,922 --> 00:40:28,092
But was I at home cheering?
989
00:40:28,134 --> 00:40:32,388
No, I was like, "This is
one of the worst--
990
00:40:35,015 --> 00:40:37,143
...this is just a sad day
991
00:40:37,184 --> 00:40:38,811
in the history
of Black culture."
992
00:40:38,853 --> 00:40:40,688
Actually,
really more than anything,
993
00:40:40,729 --> 00:40:42,106
what I felt sad about
994
00:40:42,148 --> 00:40:46,318
is what it did to Black--
995
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,487
our Black culture.
996
00:40:48,529 --> 00:40:51,532
And I said to my husband,
I just said, "This sucks."
997
00:40:53,075 --> 00:40:55,244
That will be a moment
I will never forget.
998
00:40:57,329 --> 00:41:01,041
Our friend texted one word
to us in solid caps.
999
00:41:01,083 --> 00:41:02,877
He texted the word "guilty."
1000
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,755
We were standing
in the pharmacy
1001
00:41:06,797 --> 00:41:09,091
and both of us--
and my husband's a big man,
1002
00:41:09,133 --> 00:41:11,177
and he doesn't cry--
both of us fell
1003
00:41:11,218 --> 00:41:13,471
into each other's arms
and cried.
1004
00:41:13,512 --> 00:41:16,348
We just stood there crying
because neither one of us
1005
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:18,184
believed this would
ever happen,
1006
00:41:18,225 --> 00:41:19,935
ever, ever, ever.
1007
00:41:19,977 --> 00:41:23,856
soft music
1008
00:41:23,898 --> 00:41:27,318
[Kamau] But Bill Cosby going
to prison isn't justice
1009
00:41:27,359 --> 00:41:29,528
when we still have
an entire system
1010
00:41:29,570 --> 00:41:32,865
that supports rape culture
and doesn't believe women
1011
00:41:32,907 --> 00:41:35,367
when they say they've been
sexually assaulted or raped.
1012
00:41:35,409 --> 00:41:39,038
This confirmation process has
become a national disgrace.
1013
00:41:39,079 --> 00:41:40,873
[Kamau] So many
of Bill Cosby's survivors
1014
00:41:40,915 --> 00:41:43,667
knew that even with him
in prison,
1015
00:41:43,709 --> 00:41:45,753
there was more work to do.
1016
00:41:45,794 --> 00:41:47,213
We filed a report,
1017
00:41:47,254 --> 00:41:49,757
and then it was, like,
a couple weeks later,
1018
00:41:49,798 --> 00:41:51,050
she gets a call
from a detective
1019
00:41:51,091 --> 00:41:52,384
from the Las Vegas
1020
00:41:52,426 --> 00:41:53,677
Metropolitan Police
Department.
1021
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,262
He says he wants
to interview her.
1022
00:41:55,304 --> 00:41:56,931
So she goes in.
1023
00:41:56,972 --> 00:41:58,390
It's like 45 minutes,
1024
00:41:58,432 --> 00:42:01,185
she comes out and she has
this look on her face.
1025
00:42:01,227 --> 00:42:05,189
Just kind of this blank look,
and I'm like, "So what's up?"
1026
00:42:05,231 --> 00:42:08,692
And she says, "They can't
do anything about it
1027
00:42:08,734 --> 00:42:10,778
'cause of the statute
of limitations."
1028
00:42:10,819 --> 00:42:12,279
And I said, "What do you mean,
1029
00:42:12,321 --> 00:42:13,697
the statute of limita--
I don't understand.
1030
00:42:13,739 --> 00:42:14,907
Like, I've never
heard this before."
1031
00:42:14,949 --> 00:42:18,744
You only have four years
to come forward,
1032
00:42:18,786 --> 00:42:21,539
and within those four years,
if you don't come forward
1033
00:42:21,580 --> 00:42:25,251
after four years and one day,
you don't have a case.
1034
00:42:25,292 --> 00:42:27,419
-So--
-So now I'm just--
1035
00:42:27,461 --> 00:42:28,504
Yeah, she's just
falling apart.
1036
00:42:28,546 --> 00:42:29,755
It's worse.
1037
00:42:29,797 --> 00:42:31,340
And I walked downstairs
1038
00:42:31,382 --> 00:42:32,841
and I'm about to leave
for work,
1039
00:42:32,883 --> 00:42:35,261
and then I go, "You know what?
1040
00:42:35,302 --> 00:42:37,888
we just gotta change
the statute of limitations.
1041
00:42:37,930 --> 00:42:39,848
We just gotta get rid of it."
1042
00:42:39,890 --> 00:42:41,225
And she jumped out of bed
1043
00:42:41,267 --> 00:42:43,352
and she gave me
the biggest hug.
1044
00:42:43,394 --> 00:42:45,396
She was so freaking elated.
1045
00:42:45,437 --> 00:42:50,317
And it did give us purpose.
It gave me purpose.
1046
00:42:50,359 --> 00:42:51,986
[Benjamin] It was just
two human beings,
1047
00:42:52,027 --> 00:42:53,779
a husband and a wife,
a man and a woman,
1048
00:42:53,821 --> 00:42:55,406
who knew
that something was wrong
1049
00:42:55,447 --> 00:42:56,824
and needed to be changed.
1050
00:42:56,865 --> 00:42:59,118
And that's what we did.
We changed it.
1051
00:43:01,787 --> 00:43:05,124
When I called Gloria Allred
and said,
1052
00:43:05,165 --> 00:43:08,085
"I'm thinking about joining
a handful of others
1053
00:43:08,127 --> 00:43:10,170
in getting
the statute of limitations
1054
00:43:10,212 --> 00:43:12,673
abolished in California,"
1055
00:43:12,715 --> 00:43:16,760
and she said, "Look, that--
you doing that is impossible.
1056
00:43:16,802 --> 00:43:18,220
You doing that would be like
1057
00:43:18,262 --> 00:43:19,930
if I said I want to learn
to play baseball
1058
00:43:19,972 --> 00:43:21,473
and I go out and pitch
for the Yankees tonight.
1059
00:43:21,515 --> 00:43:23,142
It's not gonna happen."
1060
00:43:23,183 --> 00:43:26,729
I realized that these women
really wanted to speak out,
1061
00:43:26,770 --> 00:43:29,231
and there is
no statute of limitations
1062
00:43:29,273 --> 00:43:30,983
on the right of free speech.
1063
00:43:31,025 --> 00:43:32,985
That can be exercised
any time.
1064
00:43:33,027 --> 00:43:35,154
[all] Hey, hey, ho, ho,
1065
00:43:35,195 --> 00:43:36,780
[Gloria] And if they were
willing to do it,
1066
00:43:36,822 --> 00:43:38,824
I would be willing
to be supportive of it.
1067
00:43:38,866 --> 00:43:40,993
It was simple as that.
1068
00:43:41,035 --> 00:43:43,996
We worked on it nonstop.
1069
00:43:44,038 --> 00:43:45,998
We lobbied.
We'd go to Sacramento.
1070
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,500
I mean, we really made pests
of ourselves.
1071
00:43:48,542 --> 00:43:50,502
We worked hard.
1072
00:43:50,544 --> 00:43:51,837
[reporter]
California will become
1073
00:43:51,879 --> 00:43:53,672
one of more
than a dozen states
1074
00:43:53,714 --> 00:43:55,841
to eliminate
the statute of limitations
1075
00:43:55,883 --> 00:43:57,843
for sexual assault.
1076
00:43:57,885 --> 00:43:59,970
-Okay, ready, rolling?
-[person] Rolling.
1077
00:44:00,012 --> 00:44:01,096
-Okay.
-Yay!
1078
00:44:01,138 --> 00:44:02,806
The women's restroom.
1079
00:44:02,848 --> 00:44:05,100
This is where
the revolution begins!
1080
00:44:05,142 --> 00:44:08,020
[all cheering]
1081
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:12,816
[Kamau] But somewhere
around this time,
1082
00:44:12,858 --> 00:44:15,486
I started thinking
about this a lot.
1083
00:44:15,527 --> 00:44:18,614
Bill Cosby had been
one of my heroes,
1084
00:44:18,656 --> 00:44:21,492
but this--
this was fucked up.
1085
00:44:23,786 --> 00:44:26,538
And difficult conversations
is kinda what I do.
1086
00:44:27,247 --> 00:44:29,541
I figured there had to be
something I could learn
1087
00:44:29,583 --> 00:44:31,126
from Bill Cosby
being in prison
1088
00:44:32,544 --> 00:44:34,213
You guys, yay.
1089
00:44:34,254 --> 00:44:36,006
[Kamau] And just as we started
to wrap this film...
1090
00:44:36,048 --> 00:44:37,800
-Thank you very much.
-You're so welcome.
1091
00:44:37,841 --> 00:44:40,052
[Kamau] It was great.
You're great.
1092
00:44:40,094 --> 00:44:41,970
[reporter] We have breaking
news for you this hour.
1093
00:44:42,012 --> 00:44:44,348
Bill Cosby is now
out of prison.
1094
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:46,725
[Kamau] Oh, my God.
1095
00:44:46,767 --> 00:44:48,727
We just shot an interview
and we were waiting
1096
00:44:48,769 --> 00:44:52,856
for Krissy Feden,
who is a lawyer
1097
00:44:52,898 --> 00:44:55,901
who was involved
in the Bill Cosby case.
1098
00:44:55,943 --> 00:44:58,070
And we were gonna ask
a lot of, like, lawyer--
1099
00:44:58,112 --> 00:45:00,948
expert lawyer questions
and--about his case
1100
00:45:00,989 --> 00:45:03,409
and about the fact
that the key to his case
1101
00:45:03,450 --> 00:45:04,993
was the unsealing
of a deposition
1102
00:45:05,035 --> 00:45:07,496
they weren't supposed
to unseal, and is that okay?
1103
00:45:07,538 --> 00:45:08,789
And as we're getting ready
for that,
1104
00:45:08,831 --> 00:45:10,457
my friend texts me and says,
1105
00:45:10,499 --> 00:45:12,418
"Your film just got
more interesting."
1106
00:45:12,459 --> 00:45:15,129
And then I looked on Twitter,
and everywhere I looked,
1107
00:45:15,170 --> 00:45:17,381
Bill Cosby is soon to be free.
1108
00:45:17,423 --> 00:45:19,091
So now we're sitting here
and we don't know--
1109
00:45:19,133 --> 00:45:20,968
and I don't really know
what this film is anymore.
1110
00:45:21,009 --> 00:45:23,011
[laughs]
1111
00:45:23,053 --> 00:45:25,889
And I'm--we're in Philly.
And we're in Philly!
1112
00:45:25,931 --> 00:45:27,850
-[producer] Should we send--
-[cameraperson] Any camera.
1113
00:45:27,891 --> 00:45:29,351
Literally any camera.
Even an iPhone will do.
1114
00:45:29,393 --> 00:45:30,310
-I agree.
-[producer] I'm just saying,
1115
00:45:30,352 --> 00:45:31,520
do I just take my iPhone?
1116
00:45:31,562 --> 00:45:32,688
[producer] Yeah,
we should move on this.
1117
00:45:32,730 --> 00:45:33,856
-Yeah, all right.
-He's coming out.
1118
00:45:33,897 --> 00:45:35,274
-[producer] Yes.
-[Kamau] Yeah.
1119
00:45:35,315 --> 00:45:36,358
-[producer] Okay.
-[Kamau] We're moving on it.
1120
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,026
-[producer] Uh-huh.
-[Kamau] Thanks.
1121
00:45:38,068 --> 00:45:40,154
[crew member]
Be safe out there.
1122
00:45:43,323 --> 00:45:44,908
[reporter] What a stunning
reversal of fortune
1123
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:46,618
for the comedian
who was once known
1124
00:45:46,660 --> 00:45:48,078
as America's dad,
1125
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,289
and this will shock
many people today.
1126
00:45:50,330 --> 00:45:52,040
How did this reversal happen?
1127
00:45:52,082 --> 00:45:53,959
[person] I mean, it's a shock
to everyone at this point.
1128
00:45:54,001 --> 00:45:55,627
[reporter] We knew that Cosby
was appealing it,
1129
00:45:55,669 --> 00:45:57,087
but there were few people
1130
00:45:57,129 --> 00:45:58,380
who thought
this would be successful.
1131
00:45:58,422 --> 00:45:59,631
[reporter]
...throughout his conviction,
1132
00:45:59,673 --> 00:46:01,467
saying prosecutors
violated the deal
1133
00:46:01,508 --> 00:46:03,677
meant to shield Cosby
from criminal prosecution.
1134
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:05,262
[fan] We love you, Mr. Cosby!
1135
00:46:05,304 --> 00:46:07,389
[fan] We love you!
1136
00:46:07,431 --> 00:46:09,850
[reporter] Bill Cosby has not
been exonerated.
1137
00:46:09,892 --> 00:46:11,435
Nobody has said
he is innocent.
1138
00:46:11,477 --> 00:46:13,312
[fan] We love you, sir!
1139
00:46:13,353 --> 00:46:17,608
Mr. Cosby has always used
his celebrity, his name,
1140
00:46:17,649 --> 00:46:20,277
his likeness to uplift women.
1141
00:46:20,319 --> 00:46:22,362
What we saw today was justice,
1142
00:46:22,404 --> 00:46:25,199
justice for all Americans.
1143
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:28,911
I'm outraged.
I'm infuriated.
1144
00:46:28,952 --> 00:46:33,373
How anybody could allow
a little legal glitch
1145
00:46:33,415 --> 00:46:37,002
to release a sociopath
1146
00:46:37,044 --> 00:46:39,880
who had no concern...
1147
00:46:39,922 --> 00:46:43,801
I know we're all so angry,
we can't even see straight.
1148
00:46:43,842 --> 00:46:46,178
[fan] Love you, Bill.
1149
00:46:46,220 --> 00:46:48,972
Love you.
I love you!
1150
00:46:49,014 --> 00:46:50,641
[chatter]
1151
00:46:50,682 --> 00:46:52,601
[person] That was
a Kodak moment.
1152
00:46:58,398 --> 00:46:59,691
I'm going to, in the words
1153
00:46:59,733 --> 00:47:01,193
of brother Malcolm,
make it plain.
1154
00:47:01,235 --> 00:47:04,071
The prosecutor
in Montgomery County
1155
00:47:04,112 --> 00:47:06,073
told Bill Cosby,
1156
00:47:06,114 --> 00:47:09,451
"Hey, we're going
to protect your rights
1157
00:47:09,493 --> 00:47:11,537
against self-incrimination.
1158
00:47:11,578 --> 00:47:13,914
We are going to, in effect,
1159
00:47:13,956 --> 00:47:16,834
give you immunity
so you can say
1160
00:47:16,875 --> 00:47:20,796
anything you want
about anything you did,
1161
00:47:20,838 --> 00:47:23,674
and I'm telling you,
Mr. Cosby,
1162
00:47:23,715 --> 00:47:27,594
that nothing you say
at these depositions
1163
00:47:27,636 --> 00:47:29,429
will be used against you.
1164
00:47:29,471 --> 00:47:31,139
In fact,
you don't have to worry
1165
00:47:31,181 --> 00:47:32,474
about it being used
against you
1166
00:47:32,516 --> 00:47:34,101
because we're never
going to prosecute you.
1167
00:47:34,142 --> 00:47:36,270
But if we do prosecute you,
1168
00:47:36,311 --> 00:47:38,188
we're not going to use
what you said."
1169
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:40,357
So Bill Cosby said
what he said.
1170
00:47:40,399 --> 00:47:42,609
A new DA comes in and says,
1171
00:47:42,651 --> 00:47:44,444
"Forget what
the other DA said.
1172
00:47:44,486 --> 00:47:45,863
We changed our mind."
1173
00:47:45,904 --> 00:47:48,532
You can't do that.
You just can't do that.
1174
00:47:48,574 --> 00:47:50,868
And that's why I said
to you, Kamau,
1175
00:47:50,909 --> 00:47:52,411
and everybody else
who asked me,
1176
00:47:52,452 --> 00:47:54,872
it was a good decision
1177
00:47:54,913 --> 00:47:57,416
by the Supreme Court
for a bad man.
1178
00:47:57,457 --> 00:47:59,167
I thought, "Oh, this man's
gonna be in prison
1179
00:47:59,209 --> 00:48:00,669
for ten years.
He's gonna to die."
1180
00:48:00,711 --> 00:48:02,838
And all of a sudden,
my phone just explodes, right,
1181
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:07,050
with a plethora of texts
and phone calls and emails.
1182
00:48:07,092 --> 00:48:08,886
And they're like,
"Did you hear the news?"
1183
00:48:08,927 --> 00:48:10,220
And at first, I'm thinking,
"Oh, did he die?"
1184
00:48:10,262 --> 00:48:11,805
They're like, "He's--
1185
00:48:11,847 --> 00:48:16,018
the Supreme Court approved
his appeal.
1186
00:48:16,059 --> 00:48:17,728
It's been overturned.
He's not--he's free.
1187
00:48:17,769 --> 00:48:19,438
He's going home."
1188
00:48:19,479 --> 00:48:21,315
And I just start sobbing.
1189
00:48:21,356 --> 00:48:24,276
melancholy music
1190
00:48:24,318 --> 00:48:29,281
1191
00:48:31,533 --> 00:48:34,453
[sighs]
1192
00:48:34,494 --> 00:48:37,456
That was like
getting coldcocked.
1193
00:48:39,041 --> 00:48:41,335
Didn't see it coming.
1194
00:48:41,376 --> 00:48:42,794
There's something
deeply wrong,
1195
00:48:42,836 --> 00:48:44,671
and we don't have reform
1196
00:48:44,713 --> 00:48:47,257
for sexual predators
in our country.
1197
00:48:47,299 --> 00:48:50,052
We just put him in jail,
and when he comes out,
1198
00:48:50,093 --> 00:48:52,346
he's still--
he hasn't had any help.
1199
00:48:54,556 --> 00:48:56,975
Sad, you know.
Yeah.
1200
00:48:57,017 --> 00:48:58,936
I don't personally believe
1201
00:48:58,977 --> 00:49:01,855
that prison is
much of a solution.
1202
00:49:01,897 --> 00:49:05,275
It hasn't stopped crime.
It hasn't stopped rape.
1203
00:49:05,317 --> 00:49:08,862
I don't think that prisons
and police are our savior.
1204
00:49:08,904 --> 00:49:11,114
I don't think that they make
the world safer.
1205
00:49:11,156 --> 00:49:13,867
And so when I think about
1206
00:49:13,909 --> 00:49:16,119
an elderly Bill Cosby
being in jail,
1207
00:49:16,161 --> 00:49:18,205
that doesn't look
like justice to me.
1208
00:49:18,246 --> 00:49:21,375
Justice looks like
those scores of women
1209
00:49:21,416 --> 00:49:23,794
not being raped
and not being drugged,
1210
00:49:23,835 --> 00:49:25,754
not being preyed upon,
1211
00:49:25,796 --> 00:49:28,840
not experiencing all kinds
of trauma memories
1212
00:49:28,882 --> 00:49:32,302
that they will carry with them
for the rest of their lives.
1213
00:49:32,344 --> 00:49:34,680
And I felt really sorry
for the women.
1214
00:49:36,348 --> 00:49:39,434
Every woman who, again,
1215
00:49:39,476 --> 00:49:43,146
got dragged to filth
for speaking the truth
1216
00:49:43,188 --> 00:49:46,733
after saying nothing
for decades.
1217
00:49:46,775 --> 00:49:50,404
And finally having
the fortitude to do that
1218
00:49:50,445 --> 00:49:53,907
and being lambasted for it.
1219
00:49:55,742 --> 00:49:57,244
That's who I feel sorry for.
1220
00:49:57,285 --> 00:49:58,537
I don't feel sorry
for Bill Cosby.
1221
00:49:58,578 --> 00:50:01,039
All of his troubles
were on him.
1222
00:50:01,081 --> 00:50:02,582
He created all of it.
1223
00:50:05,711 --> 00:50:07,504
-[Kamau] Drink some water.
-I do not like that man.
1224
00:50:07,546 --> 00:50:08,797
[Kamau chuckles]
1225
00:50:10,257 --> 00:50:13,343
Immediately after Cosby
was released,
1226
00:50:13,385 --> 00:50:15,887
that kind of churning
happened again.
1227
00:50:15,929 --> 00:50:19,141
Like, you felt that the folks
who never really understood
1228
00:50:19,182 --> 00:50:21,143
what this thing was about
to begin with
1229
00:50:21,184 --> 00:50:23,562
now feel like
they have a case to make.
1230
00:50:23,603 --> 00:50:25,397
[Marc] It was stunning
how many people were
1231
00:50:25,439 --> 00:50:27,733
defending Bill Cosby.
1232
00:50:27,774 --> 00:50:31,987
And it's not something
that we can defend.
1233
00:50:32,029 --> 00:50:33,363
You have to ask the question,
1234
00:50:33,405 --> 00:50:35,532
what investment
do we have as a culture,
1235
00:50:35,574 --> 00:50:37,909
what investment do we have
as men,
1236
00:50:37,951 --> 00:50:39,786
in Bill Cosby being innocent?
1237
00:50:41,455 --> 00:50:43,206
[Sonalee]
He is seen as America's dad,
1238
00:50:43,248 --> 00:50:45,751
but also, like,
America has a rape problem.
1239
00:50:45,792 --> 00:50:47,878
Like, America's dads
have a rape problem.
1240
00:50:49,421 --> 00:50:51,298
[Lili] It's not just
one wicked man.
1241
00:50:51,339 --> 00:50:52,716
It's patriarchy.
1242
00:50:52,758 --> 00:50:56,636
It's not just Bill Cosby,
it's misogyny.
1243
00:50:56,678 --> 00:50:59,306
It's hatred towards women.
1244
00:50:59,347 --> 00:51:01,308
It's generations of this.
1245
00:51:01,349 --> 00:51:03,351
Can I have some
of the queen's waters?
1246
00:51:03,393 --> 00:51:04,561
Precious waters.
1247
00:51:06,396 --> 00:51:08,065
[aide] Thank you.
1248
00:51:08,106 --> 00:51:10,567
Where's that Bill Cosby pill
I brought with me?
1249
00:51:10,609 --> 00:51:13,779
[uncomfortable laughter]
1250
00:51:13,820 --> 00:51:16,281
-[chuckles]
-[aide] Whoa. Okay.
1251
00:51:16,323 --> 00:51:17,616
[Matt] Good morning.
Nice to see you.
1252
00:51:17,657 --> 00:51:19,451
-Morning, Matt.
-Seen a lot of you lately.
1253
00:51:19,493 --> 00:51:20,702
Let's just get it
out of the way.
1254
00:51:20,744 --> 00:51:22,537
You had a little
wardrobe malfunction.
1255
00:51:22,579 --> 00:51:23,955
Mm.
1256
00:51:23,997 --> 00:51:26,792
Charlie, don't you like
a girl in wings?
1257
00:51:26,833 --> 00:51:28,627
-I need to get me some wings.
-No, I--
1258
00:51:28,668 --> 00:51:29,920
I like a girl
in Victoria's Secret.
1259
00:51:29,961 --> 00:51:31,254
Okay.
1260
00:51:31,296 --> 00:51:33,215
But I enjoyed
seeing you as a bunny.
1261
00:51:33,256 --> 00:51:34,758
-Thank you.
-I did.
1262
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,468
[Maureen] We will not
eliminate rape culture
1263
00:51:36,510 --> 00:51:38,804
until we change the culture,
1264
00:51:38,845 --> 00:51:41,306
foundationally,
institutionally,
1265
00:51:41,348 --> 00:51:43,975
in every possible way.
1266
00:51:44,017 --> 00:51:45,477
How about a little hug
for the Donald? He just--
1267
00:51:45,519 --> 00:51:46,978
[Maureen] What I would say
to all those people,
1268
00:51:47,020 --> 00:51:49,606
some of whom still have
a lot of money
1269
00:51:49,648 --> 00:51:52,609
that they made from Bill Cosby
projects,
1270
00:51:52,651 --> 00:51:54,319
still have a lot of influence,
1271
00:51:54,361 --> 00:51:58,156
if you are one of those now
saying "I didn't know,"
1272
00:51:58,198 --> 00:52:00,826
you know now.
1273
00:52:00,867 --> 00:52:03,787
What are you doing now
to provide
1274
00:52:03,829 --> 00:52:07,791
systems of transparency
and reliable accountability
1275
00:52:07,833 --> 00:52:09,417
and change?
1276
00:52:09,459 --> 00:52:11,378
We're at the beginning
of those conversations.
1277
00:52:11,419 --> 00:52:12,879
We didn't fix anything.
1278
00:52:12,921 --> 00:52:14,881
In Hollywood
and all across North America,
1279
00:52:14,923 --> 00:52:16,299
there's a chain
of old theaters
1280
00:52:16,341 --> 00:52:17,843
called the Pantages.
1281
00:52:17,884 --> 00:52:19,511
Pantages Theaters.
1282
00:52:19,553 --> 00:52:22,139
Alexander Pantages
was on the front page
1283
00:52:22,180 --> 00:52:26,184
of every newspaper in 1929
for the biggest rape scandal
1284
00:52:26,226 --> 00:52:27,853
in showbiz history
up to that point.
1285
00:52:27,894 --> 00:52:30,313
He was charged
with statutory rape,
1286
00:52:30,355 --> 00:52:33,191
first degree rape,
on and on and on and on.
1287
00:52:33,233 --> 00:52:35,527
To this day, there's theaters
all over the place
1288
00:52:35,569 --> 00:52:37,195
called the Pantages.
1289
00:52:37,237 --> 00:52:39,531
Nobody even thinks about it.
1290
00:52:39,573 --> 00:52:43,702
People will forget about
the worst crimes in history.
1291
00:52:43,743 --> 00:52:46,997
Kamau, I honestly think
1292
00:52:47,038 --> 00:52:50,041
that the worst part
1293
00:52:50,083 --> 00:52:52,419
about Cosby
1294
00:52:52,460 --> 00:52:55,380
being released this way
1295
00:52:55,422 --> 00:52:58,049
is the impact,
1296
00:52:58,091 --> 00:53:02,053
the potential impact
it has on survivors
1297
00:53:02,095 --> 00:53:05,432
coming forward tomorrow.
1298
00:53:05,473 --> 00:53:09,019
At the end of the day,
the messaging,
1299
00:53:09,060 --> 00:53:12,647
what people understand
and what they take from this
1300
00:53:12,689 --> 00:53:15,942
is that it's not safe.
1301
00:53:15,984 --> 00:53:19,279
I shouldn't tell.
Nothing will happen.
1302
00:53:19,321 --> 00:53:21,823
And if it does,
it probably won't stick.
1303
00:53:21,865 --> 00:53:24,242
It's a horrible, horrible,
horrible message
1304
00:53:24,284 --> 00:53:27,746
to send to women.
1305
00:53:27,787 --> 00:53:29,664
[Kamau] And just look at this.
1306
00:53:29,706 --> 00:53:32,000
This represents
the more than 60 women
1307
00:53:32,042 --> 00:53:33,752
that we know about
1308
00:53:33,793 --> 00:53:38,381
who have accused Bill Cosby
of sexual assault or rape.
1309
00:53:38,423 --> 00:53:40,258
And while I worked
on this series,
1310
00:53:40,300 --> 00:53:42,761
I heard about others
who didn't come forward
1311
00:53:42,802 --> 00:53:44,429
because they didn't want
to go through
1312
00:53:44,471 --> 00:53:47,766
what these women went through
and still go through.
1313
00:53:47,807 --> 00:53:50,769
somber music
1314
00:53:50,810 --> 00:53:54,439
1315
00:53:54,481 --> 00:53:56,066
Who was the comedian
for you?
1316
00:53:56,107 --> 00:53:57,901
Well, the comedian
was Bill Cosby.
1317
00:53:57,943 --> 00:53:59,319
[Stephen] Of course.
1318
00:53:59,361 --> 00:54:01,446
Those albums--
I had never heard--
1319
00:54:01,488 --> 00:54:03,823
"Very Funny Fellow... Right!"
"Wonderfulness."
1320
00:54:03,865 --> 00:54:05,116
-"Why Is There Air?"
-Uh-huh.
1321
00:54:05,158 --> 00:54:08,787
Greatest...
1322
00:54:08,828 --> 00:54:10,455
what's the word--
body of work...
1323
00:54:10,497 --> 00:54:11,915
[Stephen] Mm-hmm.
1324
00:54:11,957 --> 00:54:13,708
...I think in comedy is his.
1325
00:54:13,750 --> 00:54:15,543
Can you still listen
to his comedy?
1326
00:54:15,585 --> 00:54:17,170
-Oh, yeah.
-I can't listen to it now.
1327
00:54:17,212 --> 00:54:18,380
No.
Oh, you can't?
1328
00:54:18,421 --> 00:54:19,673
[Stephen] I just can't
separate it.
1329
00:54:19,714 --> 00:54:21,466
-You can't separate it?
-I can't.
1330
00:54:23,134 --> 00:54:25,345
Hmm.
1331
00:54:25,387 --> 00:54:26,763
[Kamau] In the last few years,
1332
00:54:26,805 --> 00:54:28,765
we have asked ourselves
these questions
1333
00:54:28,807 --> 00:54:31,059
over and over again.
1334
00:54:31,101 --> 00:54:33,645
Can you separate the art
from the artist?
1335
00:54:33,687 --> 00:54:35,438
And should you?
1336
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,149
What happens
when the artist you idolized
1337
00:54:38,191 --> 00:54:40,986
isn't the human being
you thought they were?
1338
00:54:42,779 --> 00:54:45,824
And what if that person's
artistic achievement,
1339
00:54:45,865 --> 00:54:49,286
living example,
and good works
1340
00:54:49,327 --> 00:54:52,872
were so great
that they changed the world?
1341
00:54:54,332 --> 00:54:56,418
What then?
1342
00:54:56,459 --> 00:54:58,003
That's
the Bill Cosby question.
1343
00:55:01,464 --> 00:55:05,385
The legacy of Bill Cosby,
you know, for me
1344
00:55:05,427 --> 00:55:10,140
is somebody who was
a tremendous entertainer,
1345
00:55:10,181 --> 00:55:13,351
someone who made,
for a period time,
1346
00:55:13,393 --> 00:55:15,895
a lot of Black kids
and Black families
1347
00:55:15,937 --> 00:55:18,148
and Black people feel
much better about themselves
1348
00:55:18,189 --> 00:55:20,025
than they were used
to feeling,
1349
00:55:20,066 --> 00:55:22,444
who was amazingly gifted
in that area.
1350
00:55:22,485 --> 00:55:24,779
But also a shitty-ass person.
1351
00:55:24,821 --> 00:55:29,326
1352
00:55:29,367 --> 00:55:33,204
Bill Cosby is a master
at his craft.
1353
00:55:33,246 --> 00:55:36,708
Whether it be acting, comedy,
1354
00:55:36,750 --> 00:55:39,878
or raping,
1355
00:55:39,919 --> 00:55:41,880
he is a master at it.
1356
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,887
Rapist.
1357
00:55:48,928 --> 00:55:51,765
He's a rapist who had
a really big TV show once.
1358
00:55:54,434 --> 00:55:57,729
I don't--I can't think
of Bill Cosby any other way.
1359
00:55:57,771 --> 00:56:00,148
I love Mr. Cosby.
1360
00:56:00,190 --> 00:56:02,108
I'm always going
to love Mr. Cosby,
1361
00:56:02,150 --> 00:56:03,526
irrespective
of the circumstances
1362
00:56:03,568 --> 00:56:05,487
surrounding his life.
1363
00:56:05,528 --> 00:56:07,489
The love will be there,
1364
00:56:07,530 --> 00:56:11,534
and I'm not gonna budge
from that, you know?
1365
00:56:11,576 --> 00:56:14,871
I'm not the kind of person
that will walk away
1366
00:56:14,913 --> 00:56:18,166
from someone, no matter
what the circumstances.
1367
00:56:18,208 --> 00:56:20,418
The last thing he said to me
on the phone was,
1368
00:56:20,460 --> 00:56:22,420
"Nobody's perfect."
1369
00:56:22,462 --> 00:56:24,798
And I think that's ironic.
1370
00:56:24,839 --> 00:56:28,468
You cannot truthfully speak
1371
00:56:28,510 --> 00:56:31,179
about Black America
1372
00:56:31,221 --> 00:56:34,974
in the second half
of the 20th century
1373
00:56:35,016 --> 00:56:37,227
and not talk about
1374
00:56:37,268 --> 00:56:40,855
the influence of Bill Cosby.
1375
00:56:40,897 --> 00:56:43,775
soft jazz music
1376
00:56:43,817 --> 00:56:48,446
1377
00:56:48,488 --> 00:56:49,948
Hey, hey, hey.
1378
00:56:49,989 --> 00:56:51,950
Really? Good.
1379
00:56:51,991 --> 00:56:53,910
[fan] I just love you so much.
1380
00:56:53,952 --> 00:56:56,246
Why did you do it?
I don't know.
1381
00:56:56,287 --> 00:56:59,290
[laughter]
1382
00:56:59,332 --> 00:57:04,295
1383
00:57:04,337 --> 00:57:05,463
[Godfrey] This is
probably one of
1384
00:57:05,505 --> 00:57:06,631
the biggest disappointments
1385
00:57:06,673 --> 00:57:08,007
in American history,
'cause I thought
1386
00:57:08,049 --> 00:57:10,552
he was gonna close
his chapter like, "Yeah.
1387
00:57:10,593 --> 00:57:12,762
Uh. The greatest comic ever.
1388
00:57:12,804 --> 00:57:14,097
Look what I did
for our people.
1389
00:57:14,139 --> 00:57:16,850
Look what I did for America.
Yes!"
1390
00:57:16,891 --> 00:57:19,102
But man, the ending
is a torn page.
1391
00:57:19,144 --> 00:57:20,478
[mimics page tearing]
1392
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,230
Maybe we should never have
invested in him
1393
00:57:22,272 --> 00:57:24,065
in that way
in the first place.
1394
00:57:24,107 --> 00:57:25,567
You can say that
in retrospect.
1395
00:57:25,608 --> 00:57:27,527
It's almost impossible
to think that we wouldn't,
1396
00:57:27,569 --> 00:57:29,195
given the circumstances
1397
00:57:29,237 --> 00:57:31,406
and given the context
that he emerged in,
1398
00:57:31,448 --> 00:57:35,660
given how sorely
we needed heroes,
1399
00:57:35,702 --> 00:57:38,872
how desperately we were
invested in the idea
1400
00:57:38,913 --> 00:57:41,166
that we knew
we were more human
1401
00:57:41,207 --> 00:57:43,209
than the depictions of us
had yielded.
1402
00:57:45,211 --> 00:57:48,256
There's still that yearning
1403
00:57:48,298 --> 00:57:50,508
for us to be seen
1404
00:57:50,550 --> 00:57:52,343
in a way that redeems us.
1405
00:57:52,385 --> 00:57:57,140
Bill Cosby is...
1406
00:57:57,182 --> 00:57:59,976
a catalyst
1407
00:58:00,018 --> 00:58:03,396
for understanding
1408
00:58:03,438 --> 00:58:05,690
the American experiment.
1409
00:58:08,651 --> 00:58:10,487
[Kamau] This is hard.
1410
00:58:10,528 --> 00:58:12,447
Honestly, there were times
when I was making this
1411
00:58:12,489 --> 00:58:14,949
that I wanted to quit.
1412
00:58:14,991 --> 00:58:18,077
I wanted to hold on
to my memories of Bill Cosby
1413
00:58:18,119 --> 00:58:19,996
before I knew
about Bill Cosby.
1414
00:58:21,498 --> 00:58:23,541
And I guess I can,
as long as I admit,
1415
00:58:23,583 --> 00:58:25,084
and as long as we all admit,
1416
00:58:25,126 --> 00:58:28,588
that there's just
a Bill Cosby we didn't know.
1417
00:58:28,630 --> 00:58:30,048
I was the best knot-tier in--
1418
00:58:30,089 --> 00:58:31,382
[Kamau] And if we really
learned the lessons
1419
00:58:31,424 --> 00:58:34,052
that this Bill Cosby
was trying to teach us,
1420
00:58:34,093 --> 00:58:37,597
to be smart and moral
and not just to be good
1421
00:58:37,639 --> 00:58:40,475
but also to do good,
1422
00:58:40,517 --> 00:58:42,143
then we can all help
create a world
1423
00:58:42,185 --> 00:58:44,145
that makes this Bill Cosby
1424
00:58:44,187 --> 00:58:46,231
and others like him
less possible.
1425
00:58:58,409 --> 00:58:59,661
-Yes.
-Yes.
1426
00:58:59,702 --> 00:59:01,120
Of course, yeah.
1427
00:59:01,162 --> 00:59:02,330
Yeah. Regrettably.
1428
00:59:02,372 --> 00:59:03,623
I knew a girl who just said,
1429
00:59:03,665 --> 00:59:05,416
"Yeah, he was
a friend of family.
1430
00:59:05,458 --> 00:59:08,002
He just took it."
Just took--just--
1431
00:59:08,044 --> 00:59:09,504
In my family, yeah.
1432
00:59:09,546 --> 00:59:11,172
The question is often, like,
1433
00:59:11,214 --> 00:59:13,341
"Have you ever
experienced rape?"
1434
00:59:13,383 --> 00:59:15,677
But is the question
ever asked,
1435
00:59:15,718 --> 00:59:17,095
like, "Hey, have you
ever raped somebody?
106829
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