Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:58,623 --> 00:01:01,148
- Mads: Your name is Clarinah?
- Yes.
2
00:01:02,453 --> 00:01:04,760
Mads: I know for a fact that...
3
00:01:05,717 --> 00:01:07,241
the villain of this story...
4
00:01:08,024 --> 00:01:10,461
he only wore white.
5
00:01:12,420 --> 00:01:14,552
He dressed in white
all the time.
6
00:01:15,162 --> 00:01:16,337
Clarinah: Okay.
7
00:01:17,338 --> 00:01:20,123
That is what I have been told.
I have one picture of him...
8
00:01:21,081 --> 00:01:24,258
where he is, um,
completely dressed in white.
9
00:01:24,562 --> 00:01:25,563
Clarinah: Okay.
10
00:01:29,045 --> 00:01:33,049
- Mads: So, your name is Saphir?
- Yes, my name is Saphir.
11
00:01:34,703 --> 00:01:38,010
Mads: We are
in Hotel Memling because...
12
00:01:39,403 --> 00:01:41,405
- the villain of the film...
- Yeah.
13
00:01:41,666 --> 00:01:44,016
...in 1965, he was staying here.
14
00:01:44,582 --> 00:01:47,585
And he was dressing
the way I'm dressing now.
15
00:01:48,543 --> 00:01:50,936
So, first sentence is...
16
00:01:51,459 --> 00:01:52,721
"This could either be"...
17
00:01:59,075 --> 00:02:00,250
Yes.
18
00:02:00,903 --> 00:02:02,861
...the world's biggest
murder mystery"...
19
00:02:03,775 --> 00:02:04,863
Yes.
20
00:02:05,734 --> 00:02:10,304
..."or the world's most idiotic
conspiracy theory."
21
00:02:13,394 --> 00:02:15,613
"If the latter is the case"...
22
00:02:16,397 --> 00:02:17,528
Yes.
23
00:02:17,789 --> 00:02:19,139
..."I am very sorry."
24
00:02:26,276 --> 00:02:27,930
U Thant: Ten years ago today,
25
00:02:28,713 --> 00:02:30,454
this organization...
26
00:02:31,412 --> 00:02:33,892
and much of the world as well,
was shocked
27
00:02:34,197 --> 00:02:37,374
by a totally unexpected tragedy.
28
00:02:39,333 --> 00:02:40,769
Dag Hammarskjold,
the Secretary General,
29
00:02:40,943 --> 00:02:43,554
was missing on a flight
to Ndola...
30
00:02:44,512 --> 00:02:46,427
and all hope was lost...
31
00:02:47,079 --> 00:02:49,125
when the remains
of the Secretary General's plane
32
00:02:49,299 --> 00:02:51,693
were sighted from the air.
33
00:02:53,303 --> 00:02:54,696
He was, in a very real sense,
34
00:02:54,957 --> 00:02:56,959
the world's first
public servant.
35
00:03:23,768 --> 00:03:26,902
- Mads: So this is Ndola?
- Goran: This is Ndola Airport.
36
00:03:28,164 --> 00:03:30,166
- It's your first time here?
- Yes.
37
00:03:30,471 --> 00:03:32,995
- Goran: Your name?
- Mads Brugger.
38
00:03:33,561 --> 00:03:35,389
- Goran: Mads Brugger?
- Brugger.
39
00:03:35,606 --> 00:03:36,781
- Goran: Brug...
- Brugger.
40
00:03:37,434 --> 00:03:38,696
Goran: Same here.
41
00:03:39,567 --> 00:03:41,830
And my name is Goran. I'm Mass.
42
00:03:42,396 --> 00:03:43,962
- Mads?
- Goran: Yes, me, Mass.
43
00:03:44,136 --> 00:03:45,747
- Mass.
- Mads: Your name is also Mads?
44
00:03:46,051 --> 00:03:48,053
- Goran: Yes.
- That is really confusing.
45
00:03:48,358 --> 00:03:50,839
Mass! M-A-S-S. That's my name.
46
00:03:51,056 --> 00:03:52,362
Mads: It's exactly like my name.
47
00:03:52,797 --> 00:03:54,843
- Nice to meet you, Mass.
- Goran: Thank you.
48
00:03:55,931 --> 00:03:57,802
But Mass,
do you know why we are here?
49
00:03:58,238 --> 00:03:59,108
Goran: I don't know.
50
00:03:59,804 --> 00:04:01,937
We are here because we
are making a documentary
51
00:04:02,154 --> 00:04:04,896
about the death
of Dag Hammarskjold.
52
00:04:05,288 --> 00:04:06,942
Goran: Okay.
53
00:04:07,769 --> 00:04:09,945
- After a long time?
- Yes.
54
00:04:11,512 --> 00:04:13,253
Mads: It's a cold case,
you know?
55
00:04:13,644 --> 00:04:14,689
Goran: Yeah, yeah.
56
00:04:16,691 --> 00:04:18,867
Mads: We want to find out if Hammarskjold was the victim
57
00:04:19,084 --> 00:04:21,739
- of a conspiracy.
- Goran: Okay.
58
00:04:25,352 --> 00:04:27,832
I mean, you've been doing
your research for a long time?
59
00:04:28,311 --> 00:04:29,312
Six years.
60
00:04:29,486 --> 00:04:30,922
- Six years?
- Yeah.
61
00:04:31,227 --> 00:04:34,274
Okay. What is the title
of your documentary?
62
00:04:35,100 --> 00:04:36,493
- The title?
- Yes.
63
00:04:38,452 --> 00:04:41,281
- "Cold Case Hammarskjold".
- Ok.
64
00:04:42,499 --> 00:04:44,153
You think it's an okay title?
65
00:04:44,632 --> 00:04:46,460
- Do you have other titles?
- No.
66
00:04:46,721 --> 00:04:49,463
Okay. Then,
it means this one suits.
67
00:04:49,985 --> 00:04:51,856
So, you'll have to leave it.
68
00:04:52,727 --> 00:04:55,469
Mads: Now for the...
69
00:04:55,643 --> 00:04:57,732
- the beginning of the film.
- Yes.
70
00:04:58,036 --> 00:05:01,605
The scene is, I am in a hotel,
in Lubumbashi.
71
00:05:01,953 --> 00:05:03,128
- Saphir: Yes.
-Mads: In Katanga.
72
00:05:03,303 --> 00:05:04,216
Saphir: Yeah.
73
00:05:04,478 --> 00:05:06,349
Mads: The old Leopold II Hotel.
74
00:05:07,785 --> 00:05:10,266
I am sitting in a room,
playing solitaire.
75
00:05:10,484 --> 00:05:12,181
- You know, the card game?
-Saphir: Yeah.
76
00:05:12,703 --> 00:05:13,878
Mads: And...
77
00:05:14,749 --> 00:05:18,230
while you see me
playing solitaire...
78
00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:21,016
there is a narration.
79
00:05:22,539 --> 00:05:25,542
narrator: It's the 17th
of September 1961.
80
00:05:26,108 --> 00:05:27,979
Dag Hammarskjold,
the Secretary General
81
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:29,503
of the United Nations,
82
00:05:29,938 --> 00:05:32,593
boards a plane
in the capital of the Congo.
83
00:05:33,681 --> 00:05:35,726
These are the last recordings made of him,
84
00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:38,468
because a few hours later,
around midnight,
85
00:05:38,816 --> 00:05:41,036
he will be killed
in a plane crash.
86
00:05:45,997 --> 00:05:49,566
I know that I am speaking
for all of my fellow Americans,
87
00:05:49,914 --> 00:05:54,049
expressing our deep sense
of shock and loss
88
00:05:54,484 --> 00:05:56,225
in the untimely death
of the Secretary General
89
00:05:56,399 --> 00:05:58,314
of the United Nations,
Mr. Dag Hammarskjold.
90
00:05:59,010 --> 00:06:01,491
Mads: The death
of Secretary General
Dag Hammarskjold
91
00:06:01,752 --> 00:06:03,667
reverberated around the world.
92
00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,763
Officially, the plane crashed because of pilot error;
93
00:06:12,937 --> 00:06:15,331
a simple misreading
of the altimeter.
94
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,161
The UN later made
their own investigation,
95
00:06:19,335 --> 00:06:21,772
which was undecided
between pilot error
96
00:06:22,077 --> 00:06:25,428
and a possible attempt
to bring the plane down.
97
00:06:25,602 --> 00:06:27,691
But right from the beginning, there were rumors
98
00:06:27,865 --> 00:06:31,216
about a conspiracy
to kill Dag Hammarskjold.
99
00:06:31,565 --> 00:06:36,570
My first thought,
if I dare to say so,
100
00:06:36,874 --> 00:06:39,964
is that he has been murdered.
101
00:06:40,356 --> 00:06:41,618
Mads: Much has been forgotten,
102
00:06:42,184 --> 00:06:44,099
and much has been lost,
in the passage of time.
103
00:06:45,100 --> 00:06:46,493
But the questions remain,
104
00:06:47,058 --> 00:06:50,627
Was Dag Hammarskjold murdered? And if so, who killed him?
105
00:06:56,372 --> 00:06:58,026
Mads: Did you know
about Hammarskjold?
106
00:06:58,548 --> 00:07:00,158
No. I didn't know.
107
00:07:02,030 --> 00:07:04,728
Mads: Dag Hammarskjold became the UN Secretary General
108
00:07:04,902 --> 00:07:06,251
in 1953.
109
00:07:06,948 --> 00:07:10,647
At first, he was believed to be a boring Swedish technocrat,
110
00:07:11,082 --> 00:07:14,477
but, in fact, he was a flaming and strong-willed idealist.
111
00:07:14,738 --> 00:07:18,220
It is very easy to bow
to the wish of a big power.
112
00:07:18,699 --> 00:07:20,527
It is another matter to resist.
113
00:07:20,918 --> 00:07:22,093
For Hammarskjold,
114
00:07:22,746 --> 00:07:25,488
one of the most important tasks
of the UN
115
00:07:25,967 --> 00:07:28,099
was to protect
the African countries
116
00:07:28,448 --> 00:07:31,712
who had recently
gained independence,
117
00:07:31,973 --> 00:07:34,889
from the tentacles
of old colonial powers.
118
00:07:36,412 --> 00:07:39,328
These new nations
wish to build a life of progress
119
00:07:39,502 --> 00:07:41,025
in full independence.
120
00:07:42,462 --> 00:07:44,507
They look to the United Nations
for moral,
121
00:07:44,725 --> 00:07:46,248
political and economic support.
122
00:07:49,033 --> 00:07:50,382
Mads: This made him
a lot of enemies
123
00:07:50,557 --> 00:07:53,037
amongst the old colonial powers.
124
00:07:53,647 --> 00:07:56,519
So, if there ever was a time
where members of the UN
125
00:07:56,693 --> 00:07:59,696
were longing for the death of the Secretary General,
126
00:07:59,914 --> 00:08:02,046
it was during the reign
of Dag Hammarskjold.
127
00:08:02,525 --> 00:08:04,788
Whatever happens,
stick to your guns...
128
00:08:05,659 --> 00:08:08,966
so that you can feel
satisfaction with what
129
00:08:09,140 --> 00:08:11,273
you've done.
Whatever the outcome.
130
00:08:13,362 --> 00:08:15,190
Mads: His plane crashed
in the outskirts
131
00:08:15,407 --> 00:08:17,845
of a small mining town
called Ndola,
132
00:08:18,367 --> 00:08:20,369
right on the border
between the Congo
133
00:08:20,543 --> 00:08:22,806
and the British protectorate
of Rhodesia.
134
00:08:24,460 --> 00:08:26,070
It was the perfect kill room.
135
00:08:26,244 --> 00:08:30,292
Isolated and far away
from prying eyes and ears.
136
00:08:39,170 --> 00:08:41,259
Hammarskjold was
on his way to Ndola
137
00:08:41,433 --> 00:08:43,827
for peace talks
with Moise Tshombe...
138
00:08:44,349 --> 00:08:47,657
the rebel leader of the breakaway region Katanga.
139
00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:50,878
People need to know
about Katanga.
140
00:08:51,226 --> 00:08:55,404
How Katanga in 1960...
141
00:08:56,753 --> 00:09:00,452
seceded from Congo,
declared independence,
142
00:09:00,757 --> 00:09:02,324
and a war broke out.
143
00:09:02,977 --> 00:09:05,327
And it's important people
understand that
144
00:09:05,762 --> 00:09:07,808
Katanga was basically
the property
145
00:09:07,982 --> 00:09:11,115
of a giant Belgian corporation called Union Minière,
146
00:09:11,551 --> 00:09:12,639
a mining corporation.
147
00:09:13,465 --> 00:09:16,468
And it was more or less
Union Minière who installed
148
00:09:17,121 --> 00:09:19,254
Moise Tshombe
as the leader of Katanga...
149
00:09:19,515 --> 00:09:20,560
Saphir: Yes.
150
00:09:21,473 --> 00:09:23,301
Mads: ...as a figurehead.
Because right below him...
151
00:09:24,302 --> 00:09:26,566
the big mining corporations
were running the shows.
152
00:09:27,479 --> 00:09:30,134
And they brought in
a lot of mercenaries.
153
00:09:31,135 --> 00:09:33,790
Dag: In a perspective,
which may well be short
154
00:09:34,225 --> 00:09:35,313
rather than long...
155
00:09:35,966 --> 00:09:39,666
the problem facing the Congo
is one of peace or war.
156
00:09:41,798 --> 00:09:44,192
Mads: Dag Hammarskjold, he wants
to fix the Katanga crisis.
157
00:09:44,409 --> 00:09:47,282
- Yes.
- So he brings in UN soldiers.
158
00:09:47,717 --> 00:09:50,415
He attacks the mercenary army of Katanga...
159
00:09:50,938 --> 00:09:52,461
thinking it would be
a quick fix.
160
00:09:52,940 --> 00:09:54,681
But the mercenaries
are hardcore.
161
00:10:00,425 --> 00:10:01,992
- It's a disaster for the UN. -Saphir: Mm-hmm.
162
00:10:03,167 --> 00:10:04,691
Mads: A lot of civilians
are killed,
163
00:10:05,256 --> 00:10:06,388
also UN soldiers.
164
00:10:11,436 --> 00:10:14,222
Backed by mining interests
and European mercenaries,
165
00:10:14,439 --> 00:10:17,007
Katanga had seceded
from the Congo,
166
00:10:17,486 --> 00:10:19,140
and a UN lead military operation
167
00:10:19,314 --> 00:10:21,838
to capture Moise Tshombe
and put an end
168
00:10:22,012 --> 00:10:25,668
to Katanga's secession from the Congo, had backfired.
169
00:10:27,452 --> 00:10:28,889
Mr. President.
170
00:10:30,151 --> 00:10:33,763
I regret that it has been
necessary for me to call again
171
00:10:34,155 --> 00:10:36,113
the attention
of the Security Council
172
00:10:36,374 --> 00:10:38,768
to the problem we are facing
in the Congo.
173
00:10:38,942 --> 00:10:40,030
Mads: So...
174
00:10:40,857 --> 00:10:43,207
the Americans.
I think also the British,
175
00:10:43,991 --> 00:10:46,210
tell Dag Hammarskjold,
"You have to fix this now."
176
00:10:46,558 --> 00:10:48,343
- They are very angry at him.
- Saphir: Yes.
177
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:51,520
Mads: He has moved beyond his mandate. He has gone rogue.
178
00:10:51,868 --> 00:10:54,958
That is why he flies in,
you know, to Katanga...
179
00:10:55,785 --> 00:10:57,831
for meeting
with Moise Tshombe...
180
00:10:58,745 --> 00:11:00,007
hoping that he can
181
00:11:00,398 --> 00:11:01,791
broker a peace deal
182
00:11:02,183 --> 00:11:04,359
with Moise Tshombe
and stop the fighting.
183
00:11:05,012 --> 00:11:05,926
Then, he flies in,
184
00:11:06,578 --> 00:11:07,884
and just as the plane
is about to land,
185
00:11:08,145 --> 00:11:09,451
- Yeah.
- ...it crashes, and he dies.
186
00:11:15,805 --> 00:11:18,634
- Goran: What are we doing?
- We are making a...
187
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,681
We are doing a checkup
on the equipment before
188
00:11:21,855 --> 00:11:23,770
we go to the burial site...
189
00:11:23,944 --> 00:11:25,467
- Goran: Okay.
- ...of the wreckage.
190
00:11:26,076 --> 00:11:28,470
- Goran: Yeah.
- First of all, we need to have
191
00:11:28,688 --> 00:11:30,951
the pictures you have found.
192
00:11:32,169 --> 00:11:33,997
- Goran: This?
- There? Yes.
193
00:11:34,781 --> 00:11:37,566
So they keep the wreckage
of the Albertina,
194
00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:39,699
Hammarskjold's plane,
inside a sealed hangar...
195
00:11:40,874 --> 00:11:42,223
for many months.
196
00:11:42,571 --> 00:11:44,616
And then, in 1962,
they bury everything.
197
00:11:44,921 --> 00:11:47,707
- Goran: Yes.
- And through this picture
198
00:11:48,055 --> 00:11:52,842
we would be able to triangulate
where the wreckage is buried.
199
00:11:53,495 --> 00:11:55,149
Goran: Oh, yes, that should be
very possible. You know,
200
00:11:55,323 --> 00:11:57,238
thanks to the buildings
you can see up here.
201
00:11:57,412 --> 00:11:59,066
I think, that's maybe
the control tower,
202
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,372
and there's some other buildings
and a road here.
203
00:12:01,721 --> 00:12:02,765
Mads: Let's go through
the equipment
204
00:12:02,939 --> 00:12:04,071
I have prepared for us.
205
00:12:04,462 --> 00:12:06,595
There are two pith helmets,
206
00:12:06,943 --> 00:12:08,423
because we will be working
in sun,
207
00:12:08,597 --> 00:12:10,207
to protect
our Scandinavian skin.
208
00:12:12,035 --> 00:12:15,038
- There are two shovels,
- Goran: Mm-hmm.
209
00:12:15,517 --> 00:12:19,434
...because, if possible,
and nobody takes offence,
210
00:12:19,695 --> 00:12:21,915
we should be digging
for the wreckage.
211
00:12:22,263 --> 00:12:25,483
And we will find the wreckage
ultimately by using this
212
00:12:26,136 --> 00:12:28,443
metal detector
with an extra powerful coil
213
00:12:28,617 --> 00:12:30,445
that I purchased for us
in Johannesburg.
214
00:12:31,098 --> 00:12:33,709
And, finally, if and when
we find the wreckage...
215
00:12:34,492 --> 00:12:36,973
two Cuban cigars...
216
00:12:38,105 --> 00:12:40,542
But, I don't smoke.
217
00:12:41,586 --> 00:12:44,024
- Mads: Bjorkdahl.
- Clarinah: Goran Bjorkdahl.
218
00:12:44,589 --> 00:12:46,156
"What happened was this,
219
00:12:46,853 --> 00:12:50,595
Goran's father was a diplomat
working for the UN.
220
00:12:51,466 --> 00:12:55,122
In that capacity, he visited
the crash site at Ndola
221
00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,083
where Hammarskjold was killed.
It was sometime in the 70's."
222
00:13:01,650 --> 00:13:04,522
Saphir: "He was given
a metal plate...
223
00:13:05,697 --> 00:13:09,658
which allegedly was coming from Dag Hammarskjold's plane.
224
00:13:10,006 --> 00:13:12,356
Clarinah: ..."was coming
from Hammarskjold's plane."
225
00:13:12,966 --> 00:13:15,446
The plate had these strange...
226
00:13:16,491 --> 00:13:18,928
small, round little holes
in it,"
227
00:13:19,233 --> 00:13:21,539
which made
Goran's father wonder.
228
00:13:22,062 --> 00:13:24,978
So, he brought the metal plate
back to Sweden...
229
00:13:25,587 --> 00:13:28,198
and asked
the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
230
00:13:28,416 --> 00:13:30,679
if they had any interest in it.
231
00:13:31,071 --> 00:13:32,594
They told him no."
232
00:13:33,551 --> 00:13:34,814
"They told him no."
233
00:13:35,727 --> 00:13:36,641
Yes.
234
00:13:37,381 --> 00:13:39,470
Clarinah: "And so,
many years later,
235
00:13:39,775 --> 00:13:42,604
when Goran's father is going
to a nursing home
236
00:13:42,778 --> 00:13:44,214
for elderly people,
237
00:13:44,824 --> 00:13:49,437
Goran finds the metal plate amongst his father's belongings.
238
00:13:51,091 --> 00:13:55,225
He asks his father
what the metal plate is about.
239
00:13:58,489 --> 00:14:00,361
And from that point onwards,
240
00:14:00,796 --> 00:14:03,364
Goran has been obsessed
241
00:14:03,538 --> 00:14:06,933
with the murder mystery
of Dag Hammarskjold."
242
00:14:16,072 --> 00:14:17,769
Mads: "All by himself,
243
00:14:18,335 --> 00:14:21,077
Goran
does something groundbreaking."
244
00:14:25,690 --> 00:14:27,214
He travels to Ndola
245
00:14:27,997 --> 00:14:31,044
and begins tracking down
the remaining black witnesses.
246
00:14:31,218 --> 00:14:33,611
- Over there, then? Where was...
- This side.
247
00:14:33,785 --> 00:14:35,091
That was that side? Okay.
248
00:14:35,483 --> 00:14:38,268
"Black people were not taken
seriously as witnesses.
249
00:14:39,313 --> 00:14:43,404
And furthermore, many of them were afraid to come forward."
250
00:14:44,796 --> 00:14:46,189
Mads: You know,
they were thinking,
251
00:14:46,494 --> 00:14:48,017
If they have killed
Dag Hammarskjold...
252
00:14:48,278 --> 00:14:49,976
- Saphir: Yeah.
- ...what will they do to me,
253
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,240
if I tell them what I know?"
254
00:14:53,980 --> 00:14:55,633
They were charcoal burners,
255
00:14:56,243 --> 00:14:59,289
living in the forest,
very close to the crash.
256
00:14:59,594 --> 00:15:00,508
Saphir: Yeah.
257
00:15:01,422 --> 00:15:04,077
Mads: So, they were
the witnesses who were...
258
00:15:05,078 --> 00:15:07,471
as close to the event
as possible.
259
00:15:07,732 --> 00:15:09,343
And we could see the plane going
260
00:15:09,821 --> 00:15:12,737
to, you know,
to the airport to land.
261
00:15:13,347 --> 00:15:15,915
But, suddenly,
I don't know what happened,
262
00:15:16,132 --> 00:15:17,829
the lights went off
at the airport.
263
00:15:27,361 --> 00:15:29,580
Clarinah: "They talk about
another plane in the air,
264
00:15:29,754 --> 00:15:33,280
which is shooting
at Dag Hammarskjold's plane."
265
00:15:33,454 --> 00:15:38,067
- You said you heard a sound?
- man: Yes. Another sound.
266
00:15:38,241 --> 00:15:39,547
- Goran: Another sound?
- Yes.
267
00:15:39,808 --> 00:15:41,853
That sound was like a jet.
268
00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:48,904
We just
saw the flash from the sky.
269
00:15:50,558 --> 00:15:53,561
There was a big plane
coming this way
270
00:15:54,083 --> 00:15:55,345
and a small plane behind it.
271
00:15:56,912 --> 00:15:59,262
There was a sound like this,
"Boom!"
272
00:16:00,785 --> 00:16:03,658
There was a fire.
273
00:16:04,354 --> 00:16:08,358
I told my boss,
274
00:16:08,576 --> 00:16:11,231
Mr. Jimmy James,
he was my boss at the time.
275
00:16:11,883 --> 00:16:14,321
He was a Briton. And I said,
276
00:16:14,799 --> 00:16:17,237
"Something happened,
what happened?"
277
00:16:17,672 --> 00:16:19,413
"There were no lights,
the lights were switched off
278
00:16:19,717 --> 00:16:23,069
at the airport."
And he just told me, "Shh."
279
00:16:35,081 --> 00:16:38,258
It came from the east,
because the pilot, you know,
280
00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:42,175
made a long turn
to avoid Katanga airspace.
281
00:16:42,784 --> 00:16:46,179
And the plane continued
towards the west. That side.
282
00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:49,834
And it disappeared
in the horizon.
283
00:16:50,052 --> 00:16:53,447
And just when it disappeared
in the horizon over there,
284
00:16:53,708 --> 00:16:55,492
there was a bright red flash.
285
00:16:55,884 --> 00:16:57,494
- Mads: Over there?
- Over there. Yes.
286
00:16:58,582 --> 00:17:01,194
People in Ndola saw it,
many people saw it.
287
00:17:01,368 --> 00:17:03,022
What about Martin, who was here,
manning the tower?
288
00:17:03,196 --> 00:17:05,372
Yeah, the radio controller,
Martin, he claims,
289
00:17:05,850 --> 00:17:07,504
he didn't see it.
Which is strange,
290
00:17:07,678 --> 00:17:09,419
because normally,
he should've been sitting
291
00:17:09,593 --> 00:17:10,725
inside the tower...
292
00:17:11,769 --> 00:17:14,294
looking in that direction.
He said he didn't see it.
293
00:17:15,338 --> 00:17:17,384
And that is not the only
strange thing.
294
00:17:17,819 --> 00:17:19,951
Martin, of course he took notes.
295
00:17:21,214 --> 00:17:22,563
A controller has to take notes
296
00:17:22,824 --> 00:17:24,652
of the conversation
with the pilots.
297
00:17:25,305 --> 00:17:26,958
He took notes,
but for some reason...
298
00:17:28,264 --> 00:17:30,832
he destroyed his notes
the next day.
299
00:17:32,268 --> 00:17:35,402
So, two days after the crash, he had to rewrite...
300
00:17:37,056 --> 00:17:38,318
his notes.
301
00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:45,716
Goran begins looking
for the killers.
302
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:48,893
Goran goes to London.
303
00:17:49,764 --> 00:17:51,113
In The Travelers Club...
304
00:17:51,853 --> 00:17:53,333
he meets with a...
305
00:17:54,116 --> 00:17:57,685
former American NSA officer.
306
00:17:58,338 --> 00:18:00,035
A man named Charles Southall.
307
00:18:01,602 --> 00:18:03,082
Goran: Now it has started.
308
00:18:03,604 --> 00:18:06,433
Hello, I'm Charles Southall.
309
00:18:06,781 --> 00:18:09,697
Goran: NSA is an American
Intelligence Organization.
310
00:18:09,871 --> 00:18:11,177
I was a naval officer.
311
00:18:11,742 --> 00:18:14,136
They are basically spying
on the whole world.
312
00:18:14,919 --> 00:18:17,574
I was home with my young family,
313
00:18:17,966 --> 00:18:21,404
and received
a telephone call, saying...
314
00:18:22,188 --> 00:18:24,451
"You really should
come out to the station
315
00:18:25,147 --> 00:18:27,280
around midnight, because something interesting
316
00:18:27,454 --> 00:18:28,716
is going to happen."
317
00:18:29,543 --> 00:18:31,545
And, shortly after midnight...
318
00:18:32,676 --> 00:18:34,591
a recording came through...
319
00:18:35,462 --> 00:18:38,073
from somewhere down in Africa.
I don't remember
320
00:18:38,247 --> 00:18:39,118
where it came from,
321
00:18:39,770 --> 00:18:42,425
and I probably didn't even know
at the time.
322
00:18:42,730 --> 00:18:45,472
But,
one of the watch supervisors
323
00:18:45,776 --> 00:18:46,821
commented that,
324
00:18:47,517 --> 00:18:51,608
"This is history, and it's only
seven minutes old."
325
00:18:52,261 --> 00:18:55,873
And it was the recording
of a man that we were aware of.
326
00:18:56,222 --> 00:18:58,789
A Belgian mercenary pilot...
327
00:18:59,355 --> 00:19:01,705
who we called "The Lone Ranger".
328
00:19:02,793 --> 00:19:05,666
He apparently was up
329
00:19:05,927 --> 00:19:07,972
in a Fouga Magister.
330
00:19:08,843 --> 00:19:12,412
He said, "I see
a transport coming in low."
331
00:19:14,501 --> 00:19:16,894
I'm going down
to take a look at it."
332
00:19:18,113 --> 00:19:20,463
And he said,
"I'm gonna make a run on it."
333
00:19:20,724 --> 00:19:23,466
And then you could hear,
and this was really chilling,
334
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,208
you could hear
the gun cannon firing.
335
00:19:26,556 --> 00:19:30,473
"Rattattat." And he said,
"I've hit it.
336
00:19:30,647 --> 00:19:32,736
"There are flames
coming out of it."
337
00:19:33,084 --> 00:19:36,697
And quite quickly he said,
"It's crashed."
338
00:19:37,176 --> 00:19:39,439
And that was the end
of the recording.
339
00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:42,920
And we processed this recording,
340
00:19:43,312 --> 00:19:46,228
and sent it off to Washington.
341
00:19:47,447 --> 00:19:48,970
And we all went home then.
342
00:19:49,318 --> 00:19:52,452
At the time we heard
this recording,
343
00:19:52,756 --> 00:19:54,149
I did not know...
344
00:19:54,845 --> 00:19:59,633
this was the aircraft that was
transporting Dag Hammarskjold
345
00:19:59,807 --> 00:20:04,203
and his staff and his
personal security people.
346
00:20:08,642 --> 00:20:10,078
Goran: Here you can see
the control tower.
347
00:20:10,383 --> 00:20:11,384
So, this spot...
348
00:20:12,036 --> 00:20:14,387
it must be just down here.
349
00:20:15,344 --> 00:20:17,433
- Just down there, actually.
- Yeah.
350
00:20:18,739 --> 00:20:20,958
Mads: My big ambition
is to bring it up.
351
00:20:21,437 --> 00:20:22,612
All of it has to come up?
352
00:20:22,786 --> 00:20:24,527
Yes, because
of new technology...
353
00:20:24,701 --> 00:20:25,833
Now we only have two shovels?
354
00:20:27,878 --> 00:20:29,489
- First, I have to find it.
- Okay.
355
00:20:30,577 --> 00:20:31,665
Because of new technology,
356
00:20:31,926 --> 00:20:33,493
if you can reexamine
the wreckage...
357
00:20:33,971 --> 00:20:37,671
it is possible to say,
was there explosives involved?
358
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:39,412
We will come back
in the morning,
359
00:20:39,673 --> 00:20:40,935
with the metal detector,
360
00:20:41,457 --> 00:20:42,545
and then we will try to sweep,
361
00:20:42,806 --> 00:20:44,460
to see
if there's anything there.
362
00:20:46,288 --> 00:20:47,376
Probably around somewhere there.
363
00:20:47,550 --> 00:20:48,943
Yeah, it must be
somewhere there.
364
00:20:49,117 --> 00:20:51,119
Yeah, it's very close here.
365
00:20:54,949 --> 00:20:57,212
Mads: There were never taken
any so called
366
00:20:57,386 --> 00:20:59,910
in situ pictures
of Dag Hammarskjold's body.
367
00:21:00,346 --> 00:21:02,261
Pictures of the body
as it looked like
368
00:21:02,478 --> 00:21:04,350
when it was found
at the crash site.
369
00:21:05,002 --> 00:21:06,395
The first pictures were taken
370
00:21:06,743 --> 00:21:08,702
after he had been moved
onto a stretcher.
371
00:21:09,137 --> 00:21:11,531
And here, in the shirt collar of Dag Hammarskjold,
372
00:21:11,922 --> 00:21:13,750
a playing card can be seen.
373
00:21:14,273 --> 00:21:15,578
And by the way,
this playing card
374
00:21:15,796 --> 00:21:17,667
is not mentioned
in the autopsy report.
375
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,539
But, you may ask,
376
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,715
what kind of playing card
was it?
377
00:21:22,455 --> 00:21:25,588
The first civilian photographer admitted to the crash site,
378
00:21:25,806 --> 00:21:29,810
a man named Norman Kenward,
claims to know the answer.
379
00:21:32,552 --> 00:21:35,816
Yes, I was
the local photographer.
380
00:21:36,382 --> 00:21:39,994
And in the early afternoon,
I would say early afternoon,
381
00:21:40,690 --> 00:21:43,432
I received a telephone call...
382
00:21:44,085 --> 00:21:47,523
asking me,
if I had heard anything
383
00:21:47,697 --> 00:21:50,961
about the Dag Hammarskjold
plane crashing.
384
00:21:51,353 --> 00:21:54,400
- Mads: Who was it calling you?
- A police officer.
385
00:21:59,927 --> 00:22:02,277
He said to me,
"My advice to you is,
386
00:22:02,625 --> 00:22:04,148
have your cameras ready",
387
00:22:04,584 --> 00:22:07,195
and with that, I immediately
jumped in the car,
388
00:22:07,978 --> 00:22:09,719
with no other
assistants with me,
389
00:22:09,893 --> 00:22:12,374
and I raced towards Ndola.
390
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,250
Saphir: How many days did
it take to find his body?
391
00:22:19,468 --> 00:22:21,340
- It took 15 hours.
- Fifteen hours?
392
00:22:21,644 --> 00:22:25,648
Yes. But it crashed eight miles
from the airport.
393
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:27,607
And there was a big fire,
you know?
394
00:22:27,781 --> 00:22:30,218
I went there with my friend.
395
00:22:30,784 --> 00:22:34,483
But still there was
a very big fire in the morning.
396
00:22:34,744 --> 00:22:36,529
- Yeah
- So, it must have been easy
397
00:22:36,746 --> 00:22:37,617
to see.
398
00:22:37,878 --> 00:22:40,359
As I arrived at the crash site,
399
00:22:41,098 --> 00:22:43,187
I parked my car
400
00:22:43,971 --> 00:22:48,323
and got the equipment I needed,
my camera, Rolleiflex camera.
401
00:22:51,065 --> 00:22:54,416
As I walked along the track,
to the left of me
402
00:22:54,764 --> 00:22:56,679
was a pile of bodies.
403
00:22:57,898 --> 00:22:58,986
All right?
404
00:22:59,943 --> 00:23:02,642
I casually said to one
of the persons there,
405
00:23:02,859 --> 00:23:05,862
I said, "Oh! What's going on?" Oh, he said,
406
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,214
"We're putting Hammarskjold
into the ambulance."
407
00:23:13,957 --> 00:23:15,306
Mads: You know,
it's complicated, because,
408
00:23:15,481 --> 00:23:17,091
when they found his body
at the crash site...
409
00:23:17,265 --> 00:23:18,962
It's a very mysterious story.
410
00:23:20,007 --> 00:23:21,617
Mads: When they found his body
at the crash site...
411
00:23:21,791 --> 00:23:23,489
- Saphir: Yeah?
- ...all the other passengers,
412
00:23:23,706 --> 00:23:26,187
most of them,
they were totally burned,
413
00:23:26,405 --> 00:23:28,494
- Saphir: Okay.
- ...and in bits and pieces,
414
00:23:28,711 --> 00:23:29,886
- all over the place.
- Saphir: Yeah.
415
00:23:30,409 --> 00:23:33,194
But Hammarskjold,
he was just lying on the ground,
416
00:23:33,455 --> 00:23:34,848
- you know, like this...
- Yes.
417
00:23:35,370 --> 00:23:37,241
...remarkably undamaged.
418
00:23:40,114 --> 00:23:41,376
Goran: Okay,
he was lying like that?
419
00:23:41,637 --> 00:23:42,551
Yes.
420
00:23:43,944 --> 00:23:46,207
Mads: And then comes
the most important detail.
421
00:23:46,599 --> 00:23:47,774
So, a few days later,
422
00:23:47,991 --> 00:23:50,211
you meet the exact same
police officer
423
00:23:50,385 --> 00:23:51,647
- in the street?
- Norman: Correct.
424
00:23:52,256 --> 00:23:55,434
And you have a conversation,
which you choose to keep secret
425
00:23:55,608 --> 00:23:58,088
- for a great many years.
- Norman: Yes.
426
00:23:58,611 --> 00:23:59,916
And he said, "Oh, by the way."
427
00:24:00,351 --> 00:24:02,179
He said, "Did you hear
about Hammarskjold?"
428
00:24:02,353 --> 00:24:04,834
I said, "Well, you know,
I believe, he was dead,
429
00:24:05,052 --> 00:24:06,619
or died", or whatever.
430
00:24:07,663 --> 00:24:10,666
He said,
"Did you see him up close?"
431
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,102
I said, "No, I did not."
432
00:24:13,321 --> 00:24:15,236
He said, "Well,
between you and me,
433
00:24:15,715 --> 00:24:18,282
rumor, and I'll say rumor,
has it,
434
00:24:18,674 --> 00:24:21,329
he had the death card
in his collar."
435
00:24:21,808 --> 00:24:24,114
So, I said, "A death card?
The ace of spades?"
436
00:24:24,288 --> 00:24:25,464
He said, "Yes."
437
00:24:25,855 --> 00:24:27,378
I said, "My goodness, you know,
what a...
438
00:24:28,205 --> 00:24:29,729
coincidence sort of thing."
You know.
439
00:24:30,469 --> 00:24:32,079
"By the way," he said,
"Please, Norman,
440
00:24:32,471 --> 00:24:34,255
don't mention that to anyone."
441
00:24:34,429 --> 00:24:37,606
He says, "After all,
it's not released officially
442
00:24:37,867 --> 00:24:39,086
to anyone."
443
00:25:20,431 --> 00:25:21,520
Goran: Well,
there's nothing here.
444
00:25:22,216 --> 00:25:23,260
Mads: No.
445
00:25:25,088 --> 00:25:26,916
- Goran: That's interesting.
- Mads: Yeah, what was that?
446
00:25:28,178 --> 00:25:29,484
Goran: Yeah, I mean...
447
00:25:30,180 --> 00:25:33,270
That would actually fit
with the map.
448
00:25:34,750 --> 00:25:39,363
If the burial spot is there,
it should make a sound there,
449
00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:40,974
and not over here.
450
00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:43,411
So, yes, that makes sense.
451
00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:46,936
- Goran: See?
452
00:26:13,267 --> 00:26:14,964
So, just to be 100 percent sure,
453
00:26:15,138 --> 00:26:16,923
should we check out
the other place?
454
00:26:24,670 --> 00:26:25,801
Can you read that sentence
to me?
455
00:26:26,019 --> 00:26:27,063
Saphir: Yeah. Um,
456
00:26:27,716 --> 00:26:31,720
"In September 2013,
the story moved beyond the realm
457
00:26:32,025 --> 00:26:36,682
of conspiracy theory
for the senior citizens."
458
00:26:37,073 --> 00:26:38,858
Yes,
because it's only old people
459
00:26:39,032 --> 00:26:40,120
who remembers Dag Hammarskjold.
460
00:26:40,773 --> 00:26:42,165
- Saphir: Okay. -Mads: Now, what happened is,
461
00:26:42,949 --> 00:26:43,950
they have a press conference
462
00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:46,517
in The Peace Palace, where a commission of jurists...
463
00:26:46,953 --> 00:26:48,737
- Saphir: Yeah. - ...who have been investigating
464
00:26:48,998 --> 00:26:51,566
the case,
presents their conclusions.
465
00:26:52,567 --> 00:26:55,178
The commission will present
the report on its inquiry
466
00:26:55,439 --> 00:26:56,919
into the cause of death
467
00:26:57,267 --> 00:27:00,531
of the former Secretary General
of the United Nations,
468
00:27:00,749 --> 00:27:03,317
Dag Hammarskjold, in 1961.
469
00:27:03,796 --> 00:27:06,233
Mads: The purpose of the report
is to evaluate
470
00:27:06,407 --> 00:27:08,322
the new body of evidence
uncovered about
471
00:27:08,801 --> 00:27:10,454
the death of Dag Hammarskjold.
472
00:27:10,846 --> 00:27:14,067
Not least, thanks to the work of Goran Bjorkdahl.
473
00:27:16,809 --> 00:27:19,681
I may say, Mr. Bjorkdahl,
we have been very much assisted
474
00:27:20,029 --> 00:27:22,118
by the research that you
have made available to us.
475
00:27:23,380 --> 00:27:25,165
- Thanks.
- Mads: The commission had asked
476
00:27:25,339 --> 00:27:27,820
the U.S.
National Security Agency,
477
00:27:28,081 --> 00:27:30,866
the NSA, if they had any records
478
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,086
in their archives
matching the description
479
00:27:33,260 --> 00:27:35,871
of intercepted radio traffic
given by
480
00:27:36,045 --> 00:27:38,657
former NSA officer
Charles Southall.
481
00:27:38,961 --> 00:27:43,183
The archive's response,
as we record in section 15.12,
482
00:27:43,618 --> 00:27:46,447
has been
that of three documents,
483
00:27:46,621 --> 00:27:49,624
or records, which appear
to respond to our request,
484
00:27:50,277 --> 00:27:54,585
two are classified top secret,
on national security grounds.
485
00:27:55,282 --> 00:27:57,371
Mads: This means: "Yes, we have
the records
486
00:27:57,545 --> 00:28:00,156
you are looking for,
but you cannot have them."
487
00:28:00,591 --> 00:28:02,158
But even more interesting
is the question
488
00:28:02,376 --> 00:28:03,290
of whether a bomb
489
00:28:04,247 --> 00:28:06,032
had been planted
in Dag Hammarskjold's plane.
490
00:28:06,467 --> 00:28:09,122
When the UN did their first
investigation of the crash,
491
00:28:09,557 --> 00:28:10,950
back in 1962,
492
00:28:11,472 --> 00:28:13,256
it was discovered that Dag Hammarskjold's plane,
493
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:14,518
the Albertina,
494
00:28:15,432 --> 00:28:17,565
had been left
completely unguarded
at the airport
495
00:28:17,783 --> 00:28:20,046
for at least two hours
before takeoff,
496
00:28:20,481 --> 00:28:23,179
which would make it possible
for a determined person
497
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,834
to plant a bomb
inside the plane.
498
00:28:27,401 --> 00:28:30,012
But, as the investigators
wrote at the time,
499
00:28:30,317 --> 00:28:33,233
"This is no more than a theory, not even supported
500
00:28:33,407 --> 00:28:35,409
by circumstantial evidence."
501
00:28:36,715 --> 00:28:39,195
"What, nevertheless,
lends apparent substance
502
00:28:39,413 --> 00:28:40,414
to the bomb theory,
503
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:43,547
is the batch of documents,
pertinently originating
504
00:28:43,765 --> 00:28:46,289
through a body called
The South African Institute
505
00:28:46,463 --> 00:28:49,597
for Marine Research."
"Maritime Research"?
506
00:28:50,206 --> 00:28:51,120
"Maritime Research."
507
00:28:58,737 --> 00:29:01,348
So, now, we are going
to South Africa.
508
00:29:01,957 --> 00:29:06,092
Saphir: Are you going to talk
about the deeper story?
509
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,790
- About what?
- About what happened there?
510
00:29:09,095 --> 00:29:10,923
- About apartheid?
- Yes.
511
00:29:11,140 --> 00:29:12,141
Yes.
512
00:29:16,711 --> 00:29:20,323
- Because, you know, in 1998...
- Yeah?
513
00:29:21,803 --> 00:29:24,066
...The Truth
and Reconciliation Commission...
514
00:29:24,545 --> 00:29:26,373
- Mm-hmm.
- ...they are closing down.
515
00:29:26,852 --> 00:29:28,636
In August 1998,
516
00:29:28,854 --> 00:29:31,160
having spent more than
four years investigating
517
00:29:31,334 --> 00:29:33,423
the crimes
of the apartheid regime,
518
00:29:33,772 --> 00:29:36,035
the Truth and Reconciliation Commission
519
00:29:36,252 --> 00:29:37,166
was closing down.
520
00:29:37,732 --> 00:29:39,168
To mark the end of their work,
521
00:29:39,516 --> 00:29:41,997
they held a final press conference in Cape Town,
522
00:29:42,476 --> 00:29:44,870
chaired by
Archbishop Desmond Tutu.
523
00:29:45,044 --> 00:29:47,089
It is a very special moment...
524
00:29:48,525 --> 00:29:50,440
for all of us.
525
00:29:52,007 --> 00:29:54,183
We have discovered,
526
00:29:54,705 --> 00:29:56,969
in the course
of our investigation,
527
00:29:57,186 --> 00:30:00,799
documents reporting to be
from an institution called
528
00:30:00,973 --> 00:30:05,107
"The South African Institute
of Maritime Research"...
529
00:30:07,631 --> 00:30:12,201
discussing the sabotage
of the aircraft in which
530
00:30:12,375 --> 00:30:15,378
the United Nations
Secretary General
531
00:30:15,596 --> 00:30:16,945
Dag Hammarskjold died
532
00:30:17,337 --> 00:30:22,168
on the night of September 18,
1961.
533
00:30:23,691 --> 00:30:26,476
man: Has everybody got a copy
of these secret documents
534
00:30:26,825 --> 00:30:28,652
from the Institute
of Maritime Research?
535
00:30:29,740 --> 00:30:31,394
How many are missing?
536
00:30:33,483 --> 00:30:35,616
Mads: The documents come from,
537
00:30:36,051 --> 00:30:38,749
allegedly,
from a shadowy private...
538
00:30:39,315 --> 00:30:41,970
paramilitary
intelligence organization,
539
00:30:42,144 --> 00:30:46,975
known as The South African
Maritime Research Institute.
540
00:30:49,282 --> 00:30:50,761
And they are...
541
00:30:52,241 --> 00:30:54,591
the manuscript
for killing Dag Hammarskjold.
542
00:30:56,724 --> 00:30:59,553
The full set of documents,
discovered in the vaults
543
00:30:59,770 --> 00:31:01,555
of South Africa's
secret service,
544
00:31:02,034 --> 00:31:04,558
was said to consist of 12 pages,
545
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:06,995
but the originals
have since vanished
546
00:31:07,256 --> 00:31:09,215
in South African state archives.
547
00:31:10,216 --> 00:31:12,305
What remains
are blurred photocopies
548
00:31:12,479 --> 00:31:13,741
of nine pages,
549
00:31:14,481 --> 00:31:17,614
outlining a plot to kill Dag Hammarskjold with a bomb.
550
00:31:18,528 --> 00:31:20,879
The documents say that Hammarskjold had to be removed
551
00:31:21,444 --> 00:31:25,448
because the United Nations
had become "troublesome".
552
00:31:26,493 --> 00:31:28,060
Among the conspirators,
553
00:31:28,408 --> 00:31:30,497
British Intelligence
is mentioned,
554
00:31:30,714 --> 00:31:34,414
as well as the American Intelligence Service, the CIA.
555
00:31:35,763 --> 00:31:39,985
man: Do you know whether
the Institute still exists?
556
00:31:40,333 --> 00:31:43,031
Yes, in fact,
when we got these documents,
557
00:31:43,205 --> 00:31:44,250
which was about...
558
00:31:45,729 --> 00:31:47,122
a few months ago.
559
00:31:47,644 --> 00:31:52,432
The first thing that we did,
was to send an investigator
560
00:31:52,911 --> 00:31:54,825
to establish whether in fact
561
00:31:55,565 --> 00:31:58,786
there is an institute
of this nature.
562
00:32:02,268 --> 00:32:06,402
We are of the view that
there is an institute,
563
00:32:06,620 --> 00:32:10,493
though in a different form,
or a slightly different form.
564
00:32:11,364 --> 00:32:12,539
Mads: But,
none of the journalists
565
00:32:12,974 --> 00:32:15,063
went to look for the institute themselves.
566
00:32:15,803 --> 00:32:17,892
Maybe because,
the British foreign office,
567
00:32:18,066 --> 00:32:19,763
as well as the CIA,
568
00:32:20,025 --> 00:32:22,331
quickly scrambled
to bury the story
569
00:32:22,592 --> 00:32:25,160
as a piece
of cold war misinformation,
570
00:32:25,465 --> 00:32:27,423
planted by the Russians.
571
00:32:27,815 --> 00:32:31,819
As a result,
The South African Institute
for Maritime Research,
572
00:32:32,124 --> 00:32:36,824
or in short, SAIMR, remains
mostly uncharted territory.
573
00:32:37,956 --> 00:32:40,045
man: It is not impossible
that the account
574
00:32:40,219 --> 00:32:42,090
carried by these documents
is genuine,
575
00:32:42,351 --> 00:32:44,788
but it is just as possible
that they are
576
00:32:45,006 --> 00:32:46,834
a well-informed fabrication.
577
00:32:52,753 --> 00:32:55,364
- Are you talking?
- No. Now I will be dictating.
578
00:32:55,538 --> 00:32:56,931
Dictating. Okay.
579
00:33:00,761 --> 00:33:03,285
Mads: What little we know
about SAIMR today,
580
00:33:03,590 --> 00:33:05,984
is thanks to the South African journalist,
581
00:33:06,288 --> 00:33:07,463
De Wet Potgieter.
582
00:33:07,898 --> 00:33:09,988
Back in the early 90s,
he met with a man
583
00:33:10,162 --> 00:33:11,337
who claimed to be
584
00:33:12,077 --> 00:33:15,689
the Commodore of SAIMR.
A man named Keith Maxwell.
585
00:33:15,994 --> 00:33:17,604
Potgieter: He described himself
as commander
586
00:33:17,778 --> 00:33:20,128
of the SAIMR's
military unit, Delta.
587
00:33:21,042 --> 00:33:22,043
And...
588
00:33:22,478 --> 00:33:24,437
what he told me...
He said that...
589
00:33:25,525 --> 00:33:30,095
the unit is a successor
of a 184-year old organization,
590
00:33:30,443 --> 00:33:32,836
first formed by a group
of British mariners.
591
00:33:33,054 --> 00:33:35,056
Preferring
to remain anonymous...
592
00:33:35,578 --> 00:33:39,365
the group's interests
are diverse.
593
00:33:43,717 --> 00:33:45,371
Some orders come from London,
594
00:33:45,545 --> 00:33:48,374
and others are initiated here
in South Africa.
595
00:33:51,159 --> 00:33:52,421
De Wet Potgieter...
596
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,599
takes the only photo
597
00:33:57,383 --> 00:33:59,211
known to me of Maxwell.
598
00:34:02,736 --> 00:34:03,650
This is him.
599
00:34:05,391 --> 00:34:07,871
The leader of SAIMR.
The Commodore.
600
00:34:12,311 --> 00:34:14,791
You see how he is dressed
in white?
601
00:34:15,009 --> 00:34:15,966
Clarinah: White, he is.
602
00:34:16,228 --> 00:34:17,533
Mads: I think because...
603
00:34:18,578 --> 00:34:20,797
SAIMR was
a maritime organization...
604
00:34:21,102 --> 00:34:22,234
So they claim to be.
605
00:34:22,625 --> 00:34:24,323
But Maxwell was also...
606
00:34:25,193 --> 00:34:26,542
posing as a doctor.
607
00:34:27,021 --> 00:34:29,023
In some quarters,
he referred to himself
608
00:34:29,197 --> 00:34:31,504
as Dr. Maxwell Annandale.
609
00:34:31,721 --> 00:34:35,725
But he was not a medical doctor,
or any doctor of any sort.
610
00:34:36,422 --> 00:34:39,294
And from what I've gathered
when I've seen the surgery,
611
00:34:39,468 --> 00:34:41,601
there were black women
lying on beds
612
00:34:41,905 --> 00:34:43,864
with funny machines
making beep sounds,
613
00:34:44,082 --> 00:34:46,345
and he was experimenting
on black people.
614
00:34:47,215 --> 00:34:48,956
- Mads: Maxwell is dead now.
- Saphir: Yeah.
615
00:34:51,089 --> 00:34:53,134
But, while being there,
I managed to...
616
00:34:53,656 --> 00:34:56,224
- find the widow of Maxwell.
- Yes.
617
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:58,183
- Her name is Diane...
- Mm-hmm.
618
00:34:58,400 --> 00:34:59,662
...and I speak with her
on the phone
619
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,274
while I'm driving around
during night time
620
00:35:02,535 --> 00:35:05,015
on the highways of Johannesburg.
621
00:35:06,887 --> 00:35:08,323
Diane: My marriage
was very difficult.
622
00:35:09,629 --> 00:35:12,327
That's the way it is. It became very difficult for me.
623
00:35:12,545 --> 00:35:14,460
And I don't enjoy...
624
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,550
the past being brought up,
actually.
625
00:35:17,898 --> 00:35:20,161
Mads: Can I ask,
were you afraid of Keith?
626
00:35:20,379 --> 00:35:21,423
Was he abusive?
627
00:35:27,255 --> 00:35:30,911
Diane: Not physically, no.
Verbally, mentally, maybe.
628
00:35:31,259 --> 00:35:32,304
Mads: Yes.
629
00:35:33,957 --> 00:35:36,569
Did he ever mention the former
630
00:35:36,743 --> 00:35:39,963
United Nations Secretary General
Dag Hammarskjold?
631
00:35:42,009 --> 00:35:43,880
Diane: I think he might have
mentioned it,
632
00:35:44,142 --> 00:35:45,752
once or twice, maybe.
633
00:35:46,056 --> 00:35:47,057
But he didn't say much.
634
00:35:47,754 --> 00:35:49,190
He just said that
this chap had died.
635
00:35:49,625 --> 00:35:51,149
And that was about it.
636
00:35:53,281 --> 00:35:55,457
Mads: Do you know
anything about SAIMR?
637
00:35:55,631 --> 00:35:57,894
The South African
Maritime Research Institute?
638
00:35:58,068 --> 00:35:59,592
Did he share any information
with you about that?
639
00:35:59,766 --> 00:36:01,855
Diane: It was
the organization that
640
00:36:02,029 --> 00:36:05,032
my husband set up for some reason or other, yes.
641
00:36:05,685 --> 00:36:09,341
Mads: But what did he tell you
that the organization was about?
642
00:36:11,952 --> 00:36:13,562
- Diane: What it was about?
- Mads: Yeah?
643
00:36:13,997 --> 00:36:15,912
Diane: He just set it up, but, I don't know why he set it up.
644
00:36:17,566 --> 00:36:20,047
If you want my frank opinion,
I think my husband
645
00:36:20,221 --> 00:36:23,181
was probably
a little bit mentally ill.
646
00:36:24,094 --> 00:36:25,226
Uh, yeah.
647
00:36:25,835 --> 00:36:28,186
At the end,
I think he was mentally ill.
648
00:36:28,403 --> 00:36:30,100
I thought,
he was just playing games.
649
00:36:31,189 --> 00:36:33,756
And he used to play games,
but, yeah.
650
00:36:35,541 --> 00:36:36,933
Playing with
other people's minds,
651
00:36:37,107 --> 00:36:38,457
to see what that would do.
652
00:36:39,197 --> 00:36:41,242
And she tells me
some very disturbing things
653
00:36:41,416 --> 00:36:42,939
- about Maxwell.
- Okay.
654
00:36:43,375 --> 00:36:44,506
How he liked to...
655
00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:47,944
manipulate other people,
play with their minds.
656
00:36:48,293 --> 00:36:49,163
Hmm.
657
00:36:49,859 --> 00:36:53,776
- How abusive and evil he was.
- He was, yeah.
658
00:36:54,342 --> 00:36:56,910
- How evil was he?
- Well, you know what he did?
659
00:36:57,171 --> 00:36:58,303
No?
660
00:36:58,651 --> 00:37:00,783
He was running
a number of clinics
661
00:37:01,175 --> 00:37:02,959
- in the black townships...
- Yes.
662
00:37:03,612 --> 00:37:05,484
...pretending to be
a medical doctor.
663
00:37:06,049 --> 00:37:07,921
man: Surname Maxwell Annandale.
664
00:37:08,138 --> 00:37:09,227
Yeah.
665
00:37:09,966 --> 00:37:11,751
Mads: The surgery
where De Wet Potgieter met
666
00:37:12,012 --> 00:37:15,102
Keith Maxwell in the early 90s, is now gone.
667
00:37:15,885 --> 00:37:18,671
man: Keith Maxwell Annandale,
or Keith Annandale,
668
00:37:18,845 --> 00:37:22,588
or Keith Maxwell Annandale, as a double-barreled surname.
669
00:37:22,892 --> 00:37:25,330
Yeah. But they said the name
as Keith Maxwell.
670
00:37:25,591 --> 00:37:27,027
Keith Maxwell Annandale.
671
00:37:27,506 --> 00:37:30,117
Mads: But Potgieter discovers
that Maxwell had
672
00:37:30,291 --> 00:37:31,814
more than one surgery.
673
00:37:34,382 --> 00:37:36,123
Potgieter: Is the old lady,
is she inside here?
674
00:37:39,474 --> 00:37:41,302
Potgieter:
Keith Maxwell Annandale?
675
00:37:41,737 --> 00:37:44,653
Oh, yeah.
Was he a doctor or something?
676
00:37:45,001 --> 00:37:47,177
- Goran: Yes, exactly.
- Yeah, he had a place
677
00:37:47,352 --> 00:37:49,832
down the road there, but,
it used to be
the old post office.
678
00:37:50,050 --> 00:37:51,747
- Oh, he had the surgery here?
- That's correct.
679
00:37:52,008 --> 00:37:53,662
- Goran: Oh, that's interesting.
- Potgieter: Was he wearing
680
00:37:53,836 --> 00:37:56,578
- a white safari suit?
- That's correct.
681
00:37:57,275 --> 00:38:00,408
We discovered that he
was running a number of clinics
682
00:38:00,582 --> 00:38:02,889
in the townships
around Johannesburg...
683
00:38:03,106 --> 00:38:04,020
Clarinah: Mm-hmm.
684
00:38:04,891 --> 00:38:06,632
...offering medical assistance to black people
685
00:38:06,806 --> 00:38:08,111
at a very low cost.
686
00:38:13,465 --> 00:38:14,596
Here!
687
00:38:16,381 --> 00:38:17,425
This.
688
00:38:18,905 --> 00:38:20,602
Oh, yeah.
We even have the name.
689
00:38:20,820 --> 00:38:21,777
There's it.
690
00:38:22,474 --> 00:38:24,606
- Yeah, exactly.
- man: Come stand here.
691
00:38:28,044 --> 00:38:29,524
"Dr. Maxwell." There's it.
692
00:38:41,275 --> 00:38:44,322
And, at that point in time,
Goran and I, we...
693
00:38:46,628 --> 00:38:49,196
we had difficulties finding out
what these clinics
694
00:38:49,805 --> 00:38:50,937
were about.
695
00:38:51,590 --> 00:38:53,853
Why was he running
these clinics?
696
00:38:54,723 --> 00:38:57,813
And people we talk to,
tell us about how he was
697
00:38:57,987 --> 00:39:00,163
experimenting on black people.
698
00:39:03,819 --> 00:39:07,388
I could just find his car
in the whole...
699
00:39:08,215 --> 00:39:09,999
- That's his car there.
- Oh, that's his car.
700
00:39:11,740 --> 00:39:14,874
The clients who came here,
did they seem to be satisfied
701
00:39:15,048 --> 00:39:16,571
with the treatment they got?
702
00:39:16,789 --> 00:39:18,617
- man: No, no, no.
- Goran: They were not?
703
00:39:18,791 --> 00:39:21,228
He was more of a chancer.
You know,
704
00:39:21,402 --> 00:39:23,752
because I used to sit with him
and see what he'd do. You know.
705
00:39:24,144 --> 00:39:26,364
- Potgieter: Quack?
- Yes, he was a quack.
706
00:39:26,538 --> 00:39:28,104
He made his money out of this.
707
00:39:28,322 --> 00:39:30,106
He had a drum there and put them
in a drum
708
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:31,586
and rolled them in the drum.
709
00:39:31,978 --> 00:39:35,590
He gave them false injections,
you know?
710
00:39:36,635 --> 00:39:38,158
Potgieter: He gave injections
to them also?
711
00:39:38,419 --> 00:39:40,552
- Yes.
- He was a surgeon.
712
00:39:40,726 --> 00:39:41,988
- man: Surgeon?
- Yeah, as a surgeon.
713
00:39:42,205 --> 00:39:43,772
When you came here...
714
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,472
Plenty of people sitting outside
waiting for the doctor.
715
00:39:48,429 --> 00:39:50,213
I know his name,
because at home,
716
00:39:50,388 --> 00:39:51,389
I think I got...
717
00:39:51,606 --> 00:39:52,607
- Was it Dr. Maxwell?
- Yeah.
718
00:39:52,825 --> 00:39:53,782
- Was it Dr. Maxwell?
- Yeah.
719
00:39:53,956 --> 00:39:55,393
He was an old man.
720
00:39:57,656 --> 00:39:59,397
He put it on the machine.
721
00:40:00,398 --> 00:40:01,486
Flex your hands.
722
00:40:01,921 --> 00:40:04,140
There was a mystery
about him, you know?
723
00:40:05,707 --> 00:40:08,014
Minding his own little things,
you know?
724
00:40:08,754 --> 00:40:10,843
Potgieter: And apparently
he was very quiet.
725
00:40:11,191 --> 00:40:13,323
Oh. very, very quiet.
But, a sharpshooter.
726
00:40:13,498 --> 00:40:14,934
Potgieter: Sharpshooter, yes.
727
00:40:16,414 --> 00:40:17,937
Yeah, they came to rob him.
728
00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:21,680
And he shot one
or two guys dead.
729
00:40:22,681 --> 00:40:25,248
He was very good at firearms.
Even before he shot somebody.
730
00:40:26,467 --> 00:40:27,816
He was an expert in guns.
Of course,
731
00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:29,427
he was a mercenary. You know?
732
00:40:29,949 --> 00:40:32,038
- He was a mercenary?
He said that?
- Yeah.
733
00:40:33,474 --> 00:40:35,607
- He said that?
- Yeah, he used to...
734
00:40:36,259 --> 00:40:40,002
He was hired to go to the Congo
and all those African countries.
735
00:40:41,526 --> 00:40:46,226
Did ever talk about
a man named Dag Hammarskjold?
736
00:40:47,532 --> 00:40:49,577
Dag Hammarskjold?
737
00:40:54,669 --> 00:40:57,063
Nothing come into my mind.
738
00:41:00,588 --> 00:41:03,330
Mads: Maxwell and Potgieter
met several times.
739
00:41:03,548 --> 00:41:06,246
Maxwell fed Potgieter
lots of documents
740
00:41:06,507 --> 00:41:07,943
from the files of SAIMR,
741
00:41:08,509 --> 00:41:11,599
amongst them, the first part
of a fictionalized account
742
00:41:11,773 --> 00:41:12,861
of Maxwell's life,
743
00:41:13,296 --> 00:41:15,647
entitled "The Story of My Life".
744
00:41:16,604 --> 00:41:17,736
There you are.
745
00:41:18,954 --> 00:41:20,782
It's the story
of Maxwell's life,
746
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,436
but fictionalized.
747
00:41:22,915 --> 00:41:27,746
It tells how, as a young man, Maxwell is recruited into SAIMR,
748
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,401
in the memoir simply called
"the Marine Institute".
749
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,536
At a farm outside
of Johannesburg,
750
00:41:35,754 --> 00:41:38,800
Maxwell is being trained
with other SAIMR cadets,
751
00:41:39,409 --> 00:41:41,455
all dressed in whites.
752
00:41:43,588 --> 00:41:46,286
They are given lessons
in psychological warfare
753
00:41:46,460 --> 00:41:48,854
and the dark arts in general.
754
00:41:53,641 --> 00:41:55,208
Maxwell's handler in SAIMR
755
00:41:55,513 --> 00:41:57,863
is a strict
and stern officer named
756
00:41:58,211 --> 00:41:59,299
Robert Wagman.
757
00:42:02,737 --> 00:42:04,434
At the end
of Maxwell's training,
758
00:42:04,957 --> 00:42:07,742
Commander Wagman sends him
to the Congo
759
00:42:07,916 --> 00:42:11,311
on a clandestine mission
for the Marine Institute.
760
00:42:15,097 --> 00:42:19,667
In the Congo, Maxwell ends up at a secret jungle laboratory,
761
00:42:19,841 --> 00:42:22,975
funded and operated
by the U.S. Army.
762
00:42:23,410 --> 00:42:27,196
Here, research is being done
into biological warfare
763
00:42:27,501 --> 00:42:30,025
and how to weaponize viruses.
764
00:42:36,075 --> 00:42:38,860
Finally, Keith Maxwell,
who calls himself
765
00:42:39,121 --> 00:42:41,123
"Ken Marshall" in his memoir,
766
00:42:41,471 --> 00:42:44,823
has a fallout with the commander of the jungle laboratory,
767
00:42:44,997 --> 00:42:48,217
who expels Maxwell
from the premises.
768
00:42:49,392 --> 00:42:52,352
Maxwell then travels
to the capital of the Congo,
769
00:42:52,744 --> 00:42:54,789
stays at Hotel Memling
for a while,
770
00:42:55,094 --> 00:42:57,705
and then goes back
to South Africa.
771
00:42:58,837 --> 00:43:01,796
Here the memoir breaks off,
unfinished.
772
00:43:02,144 --> 00:43:04,407
Not a word is written
about Dag Hammarskjold
773
00:43:04,712 --> 00:43:07,585
and how he died
in September 1961.
774
00:43:15,244 --> 00:43:19,161
I'm a bit confused, because,
there are a lot of names,
775
00:43:19,422 --> 00:43:24,253
and a lot of people
that are mentioned here.
776
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:26,386
Mads:
It is a very complicated story.
777
00:43:26,647 --> 00:43:29,171
- Clarinah: Hmm.
- Maybe too complicated.
778
00:43:34,612 --> 00:43:37,919
The reason for making it complicated is, of course,
779
00:43:38,224 --> 00:43:40,008
the nine secret
documents released
780
00:43:40,226 --> 00:43:42,576
by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission
781
00:43:42,750 --> 00:43:44,099
back in 1998,
782
00:43:44,796 --> 00:43:47,537
outlining a conspiracy
to kill Dag Hammarskjold.
783
00:43:48,190 --> 00:43:51,541
"The code name for the operation
to kill Dag Hammarskjold
784
00:43:51,759 --> 00:43:53,805
was Operation Celeste."
785
00:43:55,458 --> 00:43:58,636
Mads: Today, 20 years later,
the Operation Celeste papers
786
00:43:59,027 --> 00:44:01,987
from SAIMR
remain a complete mystery.
787
00:44:02,422 --> 00:44:05,512
No one knows who wrote them,
nor why or when.
788
00:44:05,730 --> 00:44:08,384
If the documents are to be trusted as genuine,
789
00:44:08,733 --> 00:44:10,691
it is first
and foremost necessary
790
00:44:10,865 --> 00:44:15,130
to prove that SAIMR did exist as a real organization.
791
00:44:15,522 --> 00:44:18,090
The best way to do this, would be to find other members
792
00:44:18,351 --> 00:44:21,180
of SAIMR besides Keith Maxwell.
793
00:44:21,354 --> 00:44:25,053
Because, in theory, all of this
could be an elaborate hoax
794
00:44:25,227 --> 00:44:27,969
embedded in reality
by Keith Maxwell.
795
00:44:29,754 --> 00:44:32,974
The Operation Celeste papers
mention a secret agent
796
00:44:33,148 --> 00:44:34,672
code named "Congo Red",
797
00:44:35,063 --> 00:44:36,848
who works for SAIMR
in the Congo.
798
00:44:37,457 --> 00:44:39,851
They also tell how
the explosives for the bomb
799
00:44:40,025 --> 00:44:42,201
to kill Dag Hammarskjold
were provided
800
00:44:42,375 --> 00:44:44,290
by the Belgian
mining corporation,
801
00:44:44,638 --> 00:44:45,770
Union Minière.
802
00:44:46,858 --> 00:44:48,903
The bomb fails to explode
at takeoff,
803
00:44:49,077 --> 00:44:50,644
but the agent Congo Red
804
00:44:51,036 --> 00:44:54,256
writes that a contingency plan was activated.
805
00:44:55,214 --> 00:44:56,694
"An 'eagle'
is being dispatched."
806
00:44:57,259 --> 00:44:59,522
Most likely a reference
to a jet fighter,
807
00:44:59,697 --> 00:45:01,307
and just
as Dag Hammarskjold's plane
808
00:45:01,481 --> 00:45:03,657
is about to land
at Ndola airport,
809
00:45:04,005 --> 00:45:06,529
the plane crashes, and he dies.
810
00:45:07,487 --> 00:45:11,796
And, in the end, Congo Red
confirms the job has been done.
811
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,020
Besides Congo Red, we have an agent for the CIA,
812
00:45:19,194 --> 00:45:20,805
code named "Dwight".
813
00:45:21,066 --> 00:45:23,198
He is to meet his liaison
from SAIMR
814
00:45:23,372 --> 00:45:27,289
at the old Leopold II Hotel
in the capital of Katanga,
815
00:45:27,507 --> 00:45:29,117
today the Park Hotel.
816
00:45:29,422 --> 00:45:31,772
There is no trace left of Dwight having stayed
817
00:45:31,946 --> 00:45:34,296
at the Hotel in 1961.
818
00:45:34,949 --> 00:45:38,039
The only real names given in the Operation Celeste papers
819
00:45:38,474 --> 00:45:40,868
are names
of senior SAIMR officers.
820
00:45:41,434 --> 00:45:43,262
We have a Commodore R. Wagner.
821
00:45:43,610 --> 00:45:47,005
Probably the same person
as Commander Robert Wagman,
822
00:45:47,266 --> 00:45:49,921
the officer who was in charge of the Marine Institute
823
00:45:50,182 --> 00:45:51,749
in Maxwell's memoir.
824
00:45:52,271 --> 00:45:55,013
This man seems to be
impossible to track down,
825
00:45:55,230 --> 00:45:58,451
and so are Dr. Pike
and Captain Ian Kerr.
826
00:45:58,668 --> 00:46:00,583
Oh, man...
827
00:46:01,236 --> 00:46:03,108
Mads: So,
the only confirmed member
828
00:46:03,282 --> 00:46:06,502
of SAIMR so far is,
Keith Maxwell.
829
00:46:07,373 --> 00:46:09,418
But there could be
other members of SAIMR.
830
00:46:09,810 --> 00:46:11,464
I did manage to find
this article,
831
00:46:11,638 --> 00:46:12,639
which was published
832
00:46:13,683 --> 00:46:17,165
in theSunday Times Magazine
in South Africa in 1989.
833
00:46:17,687 --> 00:46:20,125
Here, a young woman named
Debbie Campbell,
834
00:46:20,299 --> 00:46:24,259
talks about how she works for SAIMR and Dr. Keith Maxwell.
835
00:46:25,043 --> 00:46:27,785
Debbie talks about how she was
recruited into SAIMR
836
00:46:27,959 --> 00:46:30,788
out of school
when she was only 13,
837
00:46:31,179 --> 00:46:34,617
and how she now does research at Maxwell's AIDS clinic.
838
00:46:34,835 --> 00:46:37,403
But Debbie Campbell seems
to have vanished
839
00:46:37,620 --> 00:46:38,752
from the face of the earth.
840
00:46:39,405 --> 00:46:41,929
My quest to track her down
has been in vain,
841
00:46:42,147 --> 00:46:43,975
and the journalist who wrote
the article
842
00:46:44,192 --> 00:46:46,934
claims she has forgotten
all about it.
843
00:46:49,415 --> 00:46:51,417
Luckily, there are other names to work on.
844
00:46:51,678 --> 00:46:55,247
In the trove of SAIMR documents which Keith Maxwell handed over
845
00:46:55,421 --> 00:46:58,641
to journalist De Wet Potgieter, several people are mentioned,
846
00:46:58,990 --> 00:47:02,341
including a South African doctor named Claude Newbury.
847
00:47:07,563 --> 00:47:09,522
Mads: Good afternoon.
Hello, Mr. Newbury.
848
00:47:10,044 --> 00:47:11,002
Yes. Hello.
849
00:47:11,959 --> 00:47:14,309
I am Mads Brugger.
I am a journalist from Denmark.
850
00:47:14,483 --> 00:47:16,224
- Newbury: How do you do?
- Fine, thank you.
851
00:47:16,572 --> 00:47:19,227
And this is Goran Bjorkdahl,
whom you spoke with before.
852
00:47:19,401 --> 00:47:21,186
- Yes. We spoke on the phone.
- How do you do?
853
00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:25,755
I'm interested, how did you
guys get my mobile number?
854
00:47:26,626 --> 00:47:28,846
Mads: Dr. Newbury, who is known
in South Africa
855
00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:31,718
as a prolife,
anti-abortion campaigner,
856
00:47:31,936 --> 00:47:34,895
confirms having befriended
Keith Maxwell.
857
00:47:36,810 --> 00:47:39,813
He was a very pleasant person
and very humorous.
858
00:47:39,987 --> 00:47:41,989
He was the sort of person
who made
859
00:47:42,555 --> 00:47:43,948
lots and lots of jokes,
you know,
860
00:47:44,122 --> 00:47:45,688
he could make a joke easily.
861
00:47:46,254 --> 00:47:47,865
One evening...
862
00:47:48,996 --> 00:47:51,564
we were invited to dinner,
863
00:47:52,086 --> 00:47:53,783
and he said, "Well...
864
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,092
would you like to become
a member of SAIMR?"
865
00:47:58,745 --> 00:48:01,574
So I said,
"What does it entail?"
866
00:48:01,966 --> 00:48:05,883
And it seemed to entail
only the investigation,
867
00:48:06,057 --> 00:48:09,103
the research
into sunken treasure.
868
00:48:11,149 --> 00:48:13,325
Mads: Please, go on.
What happens that evening?
869
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:16,110
There was a little bit
of a ceremony.
870
00:48:16,284 --> 00:48:18,199
He had been dressed up like
871
00:48:18,634 --> 00:48:22,247
an admiral
in the British Navy from about
872
00:48:22,725 --> 00:48:25,772
250 years ago.
You know, with the...
873
00:48:26,860 --> 00:48:29,515
tricorne hat and a cutlass
874
00:48:29,689 --> 00:48:33,562
and a naval uniform with lots
of buttons, and that was it.
875
00:48:33,998 --> 00:48:36,609
- Mads: Who was wearing that?
- That was Mr. Maxwell.
876
00:48:36,826 --> 00:48:38,654
- Mads: He was dressed
like that?
- Yes. Yes.
877
00:48:39,046 --> 00:48:41,135
And then, at a later stage,
878
00:48:41,353 --> 00:48:44,617
he asked me what I thought
about the AIDS virus.
879
00:48:44,834 --> 00:48:45,835
Mads: And what did he tell you?
880
00:48:46,575 --> 00:48:50,362
Well, he indicated
that he thought it was
881
00:48:50,536 --> 00:48:54,235
a product of biological warfare.
882
00:48:55,193 --> 00:48:58,544
Mads: In fact, Keith Maxwell,
was obsessed with AIDS,
883
00:48:58,892 --> 00:49:02,417
writing extensively about
how SAIMR was doing research
884
00:49:02,635 --> 00:49:04,245
into the HIV virus,
885
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,553
and the possibility of
using the virus as a weapon
886
00:49:07,770 --> 00:49:09,424
to kill black people.
887
00:49:09,859 --> 00:49:13,776
Sorry, Mads, would you tell me,
was he infected with AIDS?
888
00:49:14,255 --> 00:49:15,430
- Who, Maxwell?
- Maxwell,
889
00:49:15,648 --> 00:49:16,605
- yeah. No.
- No.
890
00:49:16,997 --> 00:49:18,956
No, but he was interested in...
891
00:49:19,695 --> 00:49:22,046
using AIDS to kill black people.
892
00:49:23,351 --> 00:49:26,006
In his master plan,
Keith Maxwell writes about
893
00:49:26,180 --> 00:49:28,356
how AIDS will play
an important role
894
00:49:28,530 --> 00:49:30,793
in South Africa's
political future.
895
00:49:31,533 --> 00:49:34,406
"As refugees from the disease pour into South Africa
896
00:49:34,623 --> 00:49:35,537
from the north,
897
00:49:36,234 --> 00:49:37,365
they will bring
the virus with them,
898
00:49:37,931 --> 00:49:39,715
and the black population
with whom they mingle
899
00:49:39,889 --> 00:49:42,153
will become infected
on a large scale."
900
00:49:42,370 --> 00:49:44,764
"As a result..."
Maxwell concludes,
901
00:49:44,938 --> 00:49:47,245
South Africa will have
"A white majority
902
00:49:47,462 --> 00:49:49,160
in the year 2000."
903
00:49:50,161 --> 00:49:52,380
That's not the person
that I know.
904
00:49:53,512 --> 00:49:59,213
Maxwell was trying to discover
a cure for the HIV virus.
905
00:49:59,866 --> 00:50:04,392
He wanted me at one time
to join, or to start a clinic
906
00:50:04,871 --> 00:50:10,659
in a building out in Benoni
where he had visualized a...
907
00:50:11,356 --> 00:50:13,706
How do I say? A medical clinic.
908
00:50:14,141 --> 00:50:18,319
Now, he wasn't a medical doctor,
and I am a medical doctor.
909
00:50:18,754 --> 00:50:22,193
And when I said to him, no,
I wasn't prepared to do that,
910
00:50:22,367 --> 00:50:24,673
he seemed to be
very upset with me,
911
00:50:25,065 --> 00:50:28,112
and that was the end
of our relationship.
912
00:50:28,764 --> 00:50:31,245
Mads: Another person mentioned
in the SAIMR documents
913
00:50:31,419 --> 00:50:33,291
is a man named René Goor.
914
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:36,381
According to the documents,
he was second in command
915
00:50:36,598 --> 00:50:39,297
in the South African Institute for Maritime Research,
916
00:50:39,819 --> 00:50:42,430
working directly under
Commodore Keith Maxwell
917
00:50:42,648 --> 00:50:43,910
in the early 90s.
918
00:50:45,085 --> 00:50:47,348
"Goran and I went to visit him."
919
00:50:47,740 --> 00:50:48,784
Mads: Yes.
920
00:50:49,698 --> 00:50:53,180
And you know what happens?
He comes out of the building.
921
00:50:54,616 --> 00:50:58,925
We ask him if he is René Goor,
who was in charge of SAIMR,
922
00:50:59,099 --> 00:51:01,014
second in command after Maxwell.
923
00:51:01,319 --> 00:51:03,930
- Clarinah: Hmm.
- He says, "Absolutely not."
924
00:51:04,365 --> 00:51:06,715
He has never been involved
with SAIMR.
925
00:51:08,456 --> 00:51:10,589
Then, we show him some
SAIMR documents
926
00:51:10,806 --> 00:51:12,243
with the signature of René Goor.
927
00:51:13,505 --> 00:51:14,810
I mean, here we have
a document...
928
00:51:15,202 --> 00:51:16,073
- Yeah.
929
00:51:16,856 --> 00:51:19,467
- ...signed by René Goor.
- That is my signature.
930
00:51:20,381 --> 00:51:21,295
- It is yours?
- Yeah.
931
00:51:21,687 --> 00:51:22,818
Okay.
932
00:51:24,690 --> 00:51:28,041
- So, how can we explain that?
- I don't know.
933
00:51:28,476 --> 00:51:30,957
- Mads: How is that possible?
- Well, work it out.
934
00:51:32,393 --> 00:51:34,091
And we ask, how come?
935
00:51:34,482 --> 00:51:37,485
And then he says he is
the victim of identity theft.
936
00:51:38,007 --> 00:51:40,227
But have they used
that identity theft, you know,
937
00:51:40,445 --> 00:51:41,837
for taking out bank loans
938
00:51:42,011 --> 00:51:43,187
- or buying cars?
- No, nothing.
939
00:51:43,361 --> 00:51:44,579
Only for this?
940
00:51:45,102 --> 00:51:48,017
- Yeah. It appears to be.
- But that is bizarre.
941
00:51:48,409 --> 00:51:49,671
Yeah. It is bizarre.
942
00:51:51,238 --> 00:51:54,459
Mads: Do you know
a man named René Goor?
943
00:51:55,721 --> 00:51:57,244
Diane: Yes, I used to know him,
944
00:51:57,636 --> 00:51:59,725
I haven't seen him
for many, many years.
945
00:52:00,552 --> 00:52:02,031
Was he a friend of Keith?
946
00:52:05,034 --> 00:52:07,341
I think they were
in acting classes together.
947
00:52:07,776 --> 00:52:08,951
They did drama.
948
00:52:10,301 --> 00:52:12,346
- They did drama?
-Diane: Acting classes.
949
00:52:13,260 --> 00:52:15,393
Yeah, you know.
Put on plays and stuff...
950
00:52:16,263 --> 00:52:18,222
You know, we are just trying
to find out
951
00:52:18,396 --> 00:52:20,049
what kind of organization
SAIMR was,
952
00:52:20,224 --> 00:52:21,442
and what they were doing.
We don't try
953
00:52:21,616 --> 00:52:23,531
to incriminate anybody.
So, we just...
954
00:52:23,792 --> 00:52:25,403
- Yeah. I don't know.
- ...try to get the information
about SAIMR.
955
00:52:25,577 --> 00:52:28,362
We also spoke to a source
who said that you did...
956
00:52:29,233 --> 00:52:31,583
drama classes
together with Keith Maxwell.
957
00:52:35,369 --> 00:52:38,546
- I did do drama classes. Yes.
- Mads: Really?
958
00:52:38,894 --> 00:52:40,766
- Yes.
- Mads: What year?
959
00:52:41,984 --> 00:52:43,029
I can't remember.
960
00:52:44,770 --> 00:52:46,511
Before the 90s?
961
00:52:50,602 --> 00:52:53,779
- Goran: Wasn't that
with Keith Maxwell?
- I can't remember.
962
00:52:54,345 --> 00:52:55,998
Goran: You weren't
a close friend to Keith Maxwell?
963
00:52:56,260 --> 00:52:58,349
- No.
- What kind of drama was it?
964
00:52:58,566 --> 00:52:59,741
What kind of...
965
00:53:04,311 --> 00:53:07,140
- Nothing serious.
- Mads: Was it like Shakespeare?
966
00:53:07,706 --> 00:53:09,534
- No, not at all.
- Mads: Was it improv?
967
00:53:09,882 --> 00:53:11,318
Improvisation.
968
00:53:12,232 --> 00:53:13,146
Mads: Yeah.
969
00:53:13,886 --> 00:53:15,714
Goran: That handwriting
under the signature...
970
00:53:17,455 --> 00:53:18,804
is that yours?
971
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:22,764
- This handwriting here.
- That is my handwriting.
972
00:53:23,112 --> 00:53:26,028
- It is your handwriting?
- Yeah. It is my handwriting.
973
00:53:26,812 --> 00:53:29,162
Mads: So, It's also you writing
"Lieutenant commander"?
974
00:53:29,336 --> 00:53:31,730
René: No. Not me,
but it is my handwriting.
975
00:53:33,079 --> 00:53:37,866
That is my handwriting,
but I don't know this document.
976
00:53:38,780 --> 00:53:42,480
Why on earth would Keith Maxwell
and his cohorts...
977
00:53:42,784 --> 00:53:43,698
Yeah.
978
00:53:44,569 --> 00:53:47,049
...go to this length
with stealing your identity?
979
00:53:47,398 --> 00:53:49,835
I don't know, because,
I don't know the background
980
00:53:50,052 --> 00:53:51,184
of this organization.
981
00:53:51,445 --> 00:53:53,012
I don't know
what they were up to.
982
00:53:53,882 --> 00:53:55,232
Really, I have no idea.
983
00:53:56,972 --> 00:53:58,931
Mads: The SAIMR papers
also mention
984
00:53:59,105 --> 00:54:02,239
a South African General named Tienie Groenewald.
985
00:54:02,761 --> 00:54:04,328
Clarinah: "Tienie Groenewald,
986
00:54:05,067 --> 00:54:06,982
former General
and Chief Director
987
00:54:07,156 --> 00:54:09,376
of Military Intelligence,
988
00:54:09,855 --> 00:54:12,684
former Air Attaché
989
00:54:13,075 --> 00:54:15,817
at the South African Embassy
in London."
990
00:54:16,209 --> 00:54:17,428
Potgieter: And coming back...
991
00:54:17,906 --> 00:54:19,299
at a particular time
he came back,
992
00:54:19,473 --> 00:54:20,735
and he sort of became
993
00:54:20,909 --> 00:54:22,781
the chief
of Military Intelligence.
994
00:54:23,564 --> 00:54:26,654
So, since then,
he has been involved
995
00:54:26,828 --> 00:54:28,787
in intelligence work,
military Intelligence,
996
00:54:29,353 --> 00:54:30,310
all his life.
997
00:54:30,919 --> 00:54:33,792
Goran and I, we go
to visit Groenewald.
998
00:54:34,227 --> 00:54:37,230
And Groenewald tells us
that he met two times
999
00:54:37,448 --> 00:54:38,492
with Maxwell.
1000
00:54:39,014 --> 00:54:40,755
He was neatly dressed,
he was well spoken.
1001
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,193
He appeared to be someone who...
1002
00:54:46,021 --> 00:54:47,109
who was in authority.
1003
00:54:48,285 --> 00:54:51,592
He even has Maxwell's name
written in his calendar.
1004
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:55,640
Maxwell comes
to meet Groenewald,
1005
00:54:55,814 --> 00:54:58,817
and tells him
if he is interested in...
1006
00:54:59,252 --> 00:55:00,253
Before apartheid?
1007
00:55:00,732 --> 00:55:02,386
Mads: No,
just before apartheid ends.
1008
00:55:02,951 --> 00:55:04,779
- Saphir: Yes.
-Mads: In the last days
of apartheid.
1009
00:55:05,171 --> 00:55:06,215
Saphir: Yes.
1010
00:55:07,086 --> 00:55:09,654
Mads: Maxwell comes to meet Groenewald and tells him
1011
00:55:10,132 --> 00:55:15,703
if he wants weapons and money
for arming white people...
1012
00:55:16,530 --> 00:55:18,576
- to go up against
black people...
- Black people.
1013
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,317
- ...like a civil war...
- Okay.
1014
00:55:20,578 --> 00:55:21,753
...Maxwell can help him.
1015
00:55:22,144 --> 00:55:23,581
He had the resources...
1016
00:55:25,844 --> 00:55:26,714
to...
1017
00:55:27,585 --> 00:55:28,673
to use violence,
1018
00:55:29,151 --> 00:55:31,719
and to supply weapons
and so on and so forth.
1019
00:55:32,067 --> 00:55:33,852
But I was convinced that...
1020
00:55:34,461 --> 00:55:39,336
he was financed and directed
by MI6 of British Intelligence.
1021
00:55:40,946 --> 00:55:42,208
How?
1022
00:55:43,122 --> 00:55:44,558
After spending
three and a half years
1023
00:55:44,732 --> 00:55:45,690
in Britain,
1024
00:55:46,081 --> 00:55:48,562
you get to know
some people involved
1025
00:55:48,736 --> 00:55:50,956
in the intelligence field.
1026
00:55:51,739 --> 00:55:53,741
And certain names
which are mentioned
1027
00:55:53,915 --> 00:55:56,309
in our discussion
was familiar to him.
1028
00:55:58,050 --> 00:56:00,879
Which told me, well, obviously,
he knows these people.
1029
00:56:01,967 --> 00:56:03,142
So, Groenewald...
1030
00:56:04,665 --> 00:56:07,842
was convinced that Maxwell
was working for MI6,
1031
00:56:08,277 --> 00:56:09,540
British Intelligence.
1032
00:56:10,454 --> 00:56:12,499
And because of that,
he told him no.
1033
00:56:13,282 --> 00:56:14,240
And...
1034
00:56:14,806 --> 00:56:16,068
they never meet again.
1035
00:56:17,504 --> 00:56:18,679
That is very interesting.
1036
00:56:20,464 --> 00:56:23,205
What is also interesting,
is that I ask Groenewald
1037
00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:25,599
if he has ever heard
about SAIMR,
1038
00:56:26,121 --> 00:56:28,210
South African Maritime
Research Institute,
1039
00:56:28,820 --> 00:56:30,778
and Groenewald says, "Never."
1040
00:56:32,432 --> 00:56:34,434
No. I can't see...
1041
00:56:35,827 --> 00:56:37,481
this organization
as really playing
1042
00:56:37,655 --> 00:56:39,047
a significant part.
1043
00:56:40,832 --> 00:56:43,138
If they did,
I would have known about it.
1044
00:56:44,792 --> 00:56:46,838
Mads: You have
the Operation Celeste papers,
1045
00:56:47,099 --> 00:56:48,622
- right, Goran?
- Goran: Some of them, yes.
1046
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:50,232
- They are here.
- Could you show them
1047
00:56:50,494 --> 00:56:51,886
to the General?
1048
00:56:52,670 --> 00:56:54,672
- Just to get his, you know...
- Yeah.
1049
00:56:55,194 --> 00:56:56,282
Yes, of course.
1050
00:56:57,196 --> 00:56:58,980
I don't know if you have seen
these particular papers. But,
1051
00:56:59,328 --> 00:57:02,810
this is, I think,
four documents.
1052
00:57:03,376 --> 00:57:06,423
Here is one giving some orders.
1053
00:57:08,294 --> 00:57:09,208
Groenewald: You see.
1054
00:57:10,209 --> 00:57:13,995
My question always is,
is this authentic, or is this...
1055
00:57:14,300 --> 00:57:17,042
Did they try and create
an impression...
1056
00:57:17,738 --> 00:57:20,045
that the CIA, for example,
was involved?
1057
00:57:21,742 --> 00:57:23,527
Because it is very easy
to do this.
1058
00:57:24,092 --> 00:57:25,311
Let me say...
1059
00:57:25,964 --> 00:57:28,749
that you would be very,
very careful,
1060
00:57:29,533 --> 00:57:31,317
if the CIA was involved,
1061
00:57:31,926 --> 00:57:33,711
of putting something
like this on paper.
1062
00:57:34,538 --> 00:57:36,191
If you do, then it's highly...
1063
00:57:38,542 --> 00:57:39,673
It's not professional.
1064
00:57:40,544 --> 00:57:41,806
Not professional at all.
1065
00:57:47,115 --> 00:57:49,161
I don't even know what to think.
1066
00:57:57,125 --> 00:58:00,955
But if it was something real...
1067
00:58:02,914 --> 00:58:09,137
wouldn't this person, who was
the commander of the military...
1068
00:58:10,095 --> 00:58:11,488
like, um...
1069
00:58:13,446 --> 00:58:15,448
know anything about it?
1070
00:58:16,275 --> 00:58:17,494
Exactly.
1071
00:58:18,059 --> 00:58:22,194
"How come Groenewald
had never heard about SAIMR?"
1072
00:58:35,729 --> 00:58:39,646
Sorry, did you finish the story?
Are we done?
1073
00:58:39,951 --> 00:58:41,169
- About SAIMR?
- Yeah.
1074
00:58:42,083 --> 00:58:45,086
- About Maxwell and...
- Yes, for now,
because we come back to...
1075
00:58:45,696 --> 00:58:47,349
- We go back to
- We come back
to South Africa later.
1076
00:58:47,524 --> 00:58:48,525
Okay, yeah. Okay.
1077
00:58:49,351 --> 00:58:51,571
man: So, this camera guy
was standing somewhere there,
1078
00:58:51,745 --> 00:58:53,051
- and they took it that way.
1079
00:58:53,225 --> 00:58:54,574
Goran: You still have
the road here...
1080
00:58:55,140 --> 00:58:57,882
No, but listen, it is here!
I'm getting a massive reading!
1081
00:58:58,230 --> 00:58:59,274
Goran: Yeah.
1082
00:59:00,754 --> 00:59:02,321
- Mads: It is here!
-Goran: Yeah. It's here.
1083
00:59:02,582 --> 00:59:03,975
- You found it.
-Mads: It is freaking out!
1084
00:59:04,541 --> 00:59:05,716
- Goran: Yeah. We found it.
1085
00:59:14,855 --> 00:59:16,378
Goran: Yeah, so we found
the spot.
1086
00:59:17,423 --> 00:59:19,120
The question is,
how deep down is it?
1087
00:59:19,556 --> 00:59:20,600
man: That's the question.
1088
00:59:21,166 --> 00:59:23,472
You can see on the photos.
it's... I mean, it's...
1089
00:59:25,257 --> 00:59:27,172
- three, four meters.
- Deep.
1090
00:59:27,912 --> 00:59:29,348
- According to this.
- Yeah.
1091
00:59:29,653 --> 00:59:31,655
- Can we do some digging here?
- Yeah.
1092
00:59:32,133 --> 00:59:33,570
- Yeah?
- Yes.
1093
00:59:35,310 --> 00:59:37,704
Now, something
very interesting happens.
1094
00:59:38,705 --> 00:59:41,316
It's April 2014.
1095
00:59:42,796 --> 00:59:44,189
- Saphir: Yes.
- Mads: A cable sent
1096
00:59:44,450 --> 00:59:47,279
from U.S. Ambassador
to the Congo, Ed Gullion...
1097
00:59:47,496 --> 00:59:50,499
- Yeah.
- ...on 18th September 1961,
1098
00:59:51,109 --> 00:59:52,937
is declassified.
1099
00:59:54,112 --> 00:59:56,375
The cable from Ambassador
Ed Gullion
1100
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:57,942
to U.S. State Department
1101
00:59:58,333 --> 01:00:00,466
was transmitted hours before
the crash site
1102
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,337
was located officially.
1103
01:00:03,251 --> 01:00:05,819
The Ambassador informs
that Hammarskjold's plane
1104
01:00:06,167 --> 01:00:09,693
may have been shot down by a Belgian mercenary pilot,
1105
01:00:10,041 --> 01:00:13,958
identified by a "Usually reliable source" as,
1106
01:00:14,523 --> 01:00:15,568
"Van Riesseghel".
1107
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:17,178
He misspells the name
a little bit,
1108
01:00:17,352 --> 01:00:19,093
but it's Jan van Risseghem...
1109
01:00:19,790 --> 01:00:21,748
a Belgian mercenary pilot.
1110
01:00:23,358 --> 01:00:27,101
Here, Risseghem is seen
in his Fouga Magister 93,
1111
01:00:27,580 --> 01:00:30,017
the jet fighter most likely
to have been used
1112
01:00:30,278 --> 01:00:32,716
for attacking
Dag Hammarskjold's plane.
1113
01:00:33,455 --> 01:00:36,502
The only problem is,
Jan van Risseghem is dead.
1114
01:00:39,070 --> 01:00:42,682
In Spain, we meet
former Belgian paratrooper,
1115
01:00:43,074 --> 01:00:44,292
Pierre Coppens,
1116
01:00:44,815 --> 01:00:46,860
who was a friend of Risseghem.
1117
01:00:49,384 --> 01:00:54,520
I met Jan van Risseghem in 1965.
1118
01:00:54,738 --> 01:01:00,221
He was the pilot of the National Parachutism Center in Moorsele.
1119
01:01:02,833 --> 01:01:06,140
And gradually,
Risseghem tells Coppens
1120
01:01:06,750 --> 01:01:10,405
that he was the one who attacked
Dag Hammarskjold's plane.
1121
01:01:11,929 --> 01:01:15,541
He explained me that
the distance was too long,
1122
01:01:16,237 --> 01:01:19,284
so, I mean, he can arrive
to the destination,
1123
01:01:19,501 --> 01:01:21,155
but he cannot come back.
1124
01:01:21,416 --> 01:01:23,070
Mads: And from where
did he take off?
1125
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:24,768
Pierre: Kipushi.
1126
01:01:25,682 --> 01:01:26,944
- Mads: Kipushi?
- Pierre: Yes.
1127
01:01:28,380 --> 01:01:29,598
Kipushi.
1128
01:01:36,649 --> 01:01:39,173
So, this is...
1129
01:01:39,696 --> 01:01:45,049
the old Kipushi airfield.
1130
01:01:45,310 --> 01:01:48,835
What he say that,
"I take off from in the jungle,
1131
01:01:49,009 --> 01:01:50,881
so I'm in the bush...
1132
01:01:51,185 --> 01:01:54,362
- Mads: Yes.
- ...on a runway who was made...
1133
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,149
by the bulldozers
from the Union Minière."
1134
01:01:58,453 --> 01:02:02,762
So, later on, people have taken
1135
01:02:02,936 --> 01:02:05,069
the pavement,
1136
01:02:05,722 --> 01:02:09,813
which was made
from gravel from the mine.
1137
01:02:10,030 --> 01:02:14,165
They had the gravel, levelled,
but people have taken it.
1138
01:02:14,382 --> 01:02:17,429
But then, he explained me
another thing that nobody knows.
1139
01:02:17,821 --> 01:02:19,910
This is where we believe
van Risseghem took off
1140
01:02:20,171 --> 01:02:21,955
in his Fouga Magister...
1141
01:02:22,608 --> 01:02:26,003
- 17th September 1961?
- Yeah.
1142
01:02:26,612 --> 01:02:27,831
We believe he was capable.
1143
01:02:28,222 --> 01:02:30,137
It was not normally long enough
for a jet plane,
1144
01:02:30,311 --> 01:02:32,357
but he had a special technique,
you know, for...
1145
01:02:34,228 --> 01:02:36,448
...when taking off
and landing with the plane.
1146
01:02:37,275 --> 01:02:40,844
He make a small tank
but he put down...
1147
01:02:42,367 --> 01:02:45,718
I believe he put under this tank
down the airplane
1148
01:02:45,936 --> 01:02:46,937
or on the wings.
1149
01:02:47,807 --> 01:02:51,158
Mads: He attached an extra
gasoline tank to the plane.
1150
01:02:51,463 --> 01:02:54,858
He said, "Then I have
more reserve for starting...
1151
01:02:56,511 --> 01:03:00,515
because I push, I push
a lot of power...
1152
01:03:00,733 --> 01:03:02,953
- Mads: Yes.
- ...to take off."
1153
01:03:03,127 --> 01:03:04,084
Mads: Yes.
1154
01:03:04,432 --> 01:03:05,564
Hold it there! So...
1155
01:03:06,217 --> 01:03:09,873
it's night, van Risseghem
flies his Fouga to Ndola,
1156
01:03:10,047 --> 01:03:12,484
and there he intercepts
Hammarskjold's plane?
1157
01:03:12,701 --> 01:03:13,964
- Yes.
- man: Okay.
1158
01:03:14,355 --> 01:03:17,968
- Was it a small or a big plane?
- A small plane.
1159
01:03:18,272 --> 01:03:21,449
The plane was
taking the glide...
1160
01:03:21,798 --> 01:03:25,018
- Mads: Yes.
- ...to land, no,
with full lights.
1161
01:03:25,410 --> 01:03:26,672
- Hammarskjold's plane?
- Yes.
1162
01:03:26,846 --> 01:03:27,978
- Yes.
- Pierre: And he say,
1163
01:03:28,674 --> 01:03:31,068
"I arrived from the back."
I just from the back I arrive.
1164
01:03:31,372 --> 01:03:33,026
And so he shot.
1165
01:03:33,548 --> 01:03:36,290
And did he say
where on the airplane he shot?
1166
01:03:36,769 --> 01:03:39,511
We saw the fire around there.
On top of the plane.
1167
01:03:43,732 --> 01:03:45,125
On the left wing.
1168
01:03:45,691 --> 01:03:50,261
We just saw the flash
from the sky.
1169
01:03:50,914 --> 01:03:52,524
Yes, because of the wing tanks.
1170
01:03:53,351 --> 01:03:55,614
When you have ammunition
which is explosive...
1171
01:03:56,310 --> 01:04:00,053
you just shoot on the wing,
and it will explode.
1172
01:04:00,619 --> 01:04:03,796
It began to burn,
and then it crashed.
1173
01:04:08,061 --> 01:04:12,979
This is, in fact, a picture
of the person who
1174
01:04:13,458 --> 01:04:15,416
basically killed
Dag Hammarskjold.
1175
01:04:15,677 --> 01:04:16,722
Yes.
1176
01:04:17,418 --> 01:04:18,724
Yes.
1177
01:04:22,597 --> 01:04:28,560
But did van Risseghem
feel any kind of remorse, any...
1178
01:04:28,952 --> 01:04:30,562
- No.
- No?
1179
01:04:30,779 --> 01:04:31,824
No.
1180
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:33,608
- Nothing?
- No, no.
1181
01:04:33,913 --> 01:04:36,002
Did he tell you who gave him
the order
1182
01:04:36,176 --> 01:04:37,438
- to bring down the plane?
- No.
1183
01:04:39,353 --> 01:04:40,702
But what is interesting is,
1184
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,053
we also learned
that Risseghem was
1185
01:04:43,531 --> 01:04:45,185
Belgian and British.
1186
01:04:46,578 --> 01:04:49,798
And during the war, he worked
for the Royal Air Force,
1187
01:04:50,060 --> 01:04:52,410
specializing in
night-time operations.
1188
01:04:54,325 --> 01:04:58,459
And his code name was
"The Lone Ranger".
1189
01:04:59,025 --> 01:05:02,811
"The Lone Ranger"
was his name in England.
1190
01:05:03,595 --> 01:05:05,205
- In the World War II.
- Goran: Oh.
1191
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:08,600
Because he was flying
with a Hawker Hurricane,
1192
01:05:09,035 --> 01:05:11,908
always night time,
and always alone.
1193
01:05:12,909 --> 01:05:15,346
- Goran: Interesting.
- Mads: So he was known
as "The Lone Ranger"?
1194
01:05:15,607 --> 01:05:16,782
- Yes.
- Mads: Yes.
1195
01:05:17,609 --> 01:05:20,046
And it was a man that
we were aware of.
1196
01:05:20,699 --> 01:05:23,180
A Belgian mercenary pilot
1197
01:05:23,832 --> 01:05:26,183
who we called "The Lone Ranger".
1198
01:05:26,357 --> 01:05:29,882
Was it your impression that
in army circles,
1199
01:05:30,143 --> 01:05:31,318
mercenary circles...
1200
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,757
that people knew
that van Risseghem was the one
1201
01:05:35,932 --> 01:05:37,324
who brought down
Hammarskjold's plane?
1202
01:05:37,542 --> 01:05:38,760
In Brussels, yes.
1203
01:05:39,457 --> 01:05:42,242
When some people talked
about van Risseghem, I said,
1204
01:05:42,416 --> 01:05:46,377
"Ah, everybody knows
that he shot down this plane."
1205
01:05:48,161 --> 01:05:49,423
It was common knowledge?
1206
01:05:49,902 --> 01:05:51,121
- Yes.
- Goran: But how come
1207
01:05:51,295 --> 01:05:54,167
that nobody has spoken
to the press...
1208
01:05:54,951 --> 01:05:56,865
the media, about it?
1209
01:05:57,910 --> 01:06:00,086
Mads: This is a copy
of Jan van Risseghem's
1210
01:06:00,391 --> 01:06:02,915
pilot logbook from his time
in the Congo.
1211
01:06:03,785 --> 01:06:05,483
The only period
not accounted for,
1212
01:06:05,657 --> 01:06:06,658
in the logbook
1213
01:06:07,528 --> 01:06:09,617
are the days shortly before
and after the death
1214
01:06:09,922 --> 01:06:10,967
of Dag Hammarskjold.
1215
01:06:12,620 --> 01:06:15,362
Furthermore, the one writing
in his pilot logbook
1216
01:06:15,536 --> 01:06:17,712
is his wife, Marion.
1217
01:06:20,019 --> 01:06:23,022
So, you know,
how is that to be trusted?
1218
01:06:25,633 --> 01:06:28,027
What is that?
Why are you filming?
1219
01:06:32,031 --> 01:06:33,859
Hello, Ms. Van Risseghem?
1220
01:06:34,860 --> 01:06:37,123
My name is Mads Brugger.
I'm a journalist from Denmark.
1221
01:06:38,472 --> 01:06:40,213
Clearly, what is all this about?
1222
01:06:40,735 --> 01:06:42,520
Well, it's about...
This is Goran Bjorkdahl.
1223
01:06:42,737 --> 01:06:43,869
- He's from Sweden.
- Hello.
1224
01:06:44,957 --> 01:06:46,872
No! Not this Hammarskjold
thing again!
1225
01:06:47,177 --> 01:06:48,308
It's Hammarskjold...
1226
01:06:52,443 --> 01:06:53,748
Do you have
just like two minutes?
1227
01:06:54,140 --> 01:06:56,186
I just need to ask you
a very important question.
1228
01:06:57,883 --> 01:06:58,840
Oh.
1229
01:07:12,898 --> 01:07:15,596
Then, soon after, Goran...
1230
01:07:18,904 --> 01:07:20,819
"The UN appoints...
1231
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:24,997
an expert panel
of three persons."
1232
01:07:30,785 --> 01:07:33,005
Mads: Acting on the report from the commission of jurists,
1233
01:07:33,745 --> 01:07:37,096
the UN appoints
a three-person expert panel,
1234
01:07:37,314 --> 01:07:40,447
tasked with evaluating
the new body of evidence
1235
01:07:40,708 --> 01:07:42,667
in the Dag Hammarskjold crash.
1236
01:07:46,366 --> 01:07:48,064
And they learn about
Goran's metal plate.
1237
01:07:48,977 --> 01:07:50,762
Remember?
The one with the little holes.
1238
01:07:52,111 --> 01:07:53,939
This is a part of...
1239
01:07:54,418 --> 01:07:55,288
The plane?
1240
01:07:56,202 --> 01:07:57,638
- Probably a part of the plane,
yes.
- For real?
1241
01:07:57,812 --> 01:08:00,685
That's awesome,
so it's a part of history.
1242
01:08:00,859 --> 01:08:01,729
Yes.
1243
01:08:02,165 --> 01:08:03,992
Well...
1244
01:08:05,124 --> 01:08:06,343
The UN has appointed
1245
01:08:07,387 --> 01:08:10,695
a panel of experts who are going
to investigate
1246
01:08:10,956 --> 01:08:12,958
if he was murdered.
1247
01:08:13,785 --> 01:08:15,961
I'm going to give the plate
to them tonight.
1248
01:08:16,135 --> 01:08:19,834
They will investigate,
if it really was a part
of the plane.
1249
01:08:20,183 --> 01:08:23,229
It's almost certain it is.
1250
01:08:23,577 --> 01:08:25,579
And they come to Stockholm
to meet with Goran,
1251
01:08:25,797 --> 01:08:28,191
and he hands over
the metal plate.
1252
01:08:30,106 --> 01:08:32,369
We are hoping, of course,
that this metal plate
1253
01:08:32,543 --> 01:08:34,327
is the smoking gun.
1254
01:08:41,552 --> 01:08:42,640
Goran: Nice to meet you.
1255
01:08:45,686 --> 01:08:46,905
Mads: It's a bit like in films,
1256
01:08:47,123 --> 01:08:49,081
when people have to dig
their own grave.
1257
01:08:59,091 --> 01:09:02,573
I just need a timeout, Goran.
I'm about to be throwing up.
1258
01:09:02,834 --> 01:09:04,357
- Oh, Jesus.
1259
01:09:06,011 --> 01:09:07,404
Can I give a hand?
1260
01:09:12,974 --> 01:09:16,108
- Goran, did you have the gel?
- Yes.
1261
01:09:16,413 --> 01:09:18,241
Because I'm having blisters.
1262
01:09:19,633 --> 01:09:22,245
If they are broken, you know,
it may be good to clean them.
1263
01:09:22,506 --> 01:09:23,681
It hurts a lot.
1264
01:09:25,857 --> 01:09:27,032
It hurts a lot.
1265
01:09:27,598 --> 01:09:28,642
There you go.
1266
01:09:30,122 --> 01:09:32,124
Mads: Saphir,
you remember I told you...
1267
01:09:32,907 --> 01:09:36,563
Goran met with the three man
expert panel in Sweden?
1268
01:09:36,824 --> 01:09:37,695
Saphir: Yeah.
1269
01:09:38,609 --> 01:09:42,787
They took the metal plate
to FBI laboratories in...
1270
01:09:43,483 --> 01:09:44,876
- the USA...
- Yeah.
1271
01:09:45,050 --> 01:09:46,356
and they tested the plate...
1272
01:09:47,183 --> 01:09:48,619
and the conclusion was...
1273
01:09:49,446 --> 01:09:52,797
the plate has zero
probative value.
1274
01:09:53,406 --> 01:09:55,452
It has never been inside
a plane,
1275
01:09:55,887 --> 01:09:57,715
it probably comes
from a Land Rover,
1276
01:09:58,281 --> 01:09:59,499
and the holes in it...
1277
01:10:00,021 --> 01:10:01,762
does not come from ammunition.
1278
01:10:02,850 --> 01:10:04,548
- Okay.
- You understand?
1279
01:10:04,765 --> 01:10:05,679
Yeah.
1280
01:10:06,376 --> 01:10:08,943
- It's bad news for Goran.
1281
01:10:14,862 --> 01:10:16,734
Mads: Amazingly,
we are given permission
1282
01:10:17,038 --> 01:10:19,432
to start digging
inside the airport.
1283
01:10:19,737 --> 01:10:22,392
But then, suddenly,
someone calls from Lusaka...
1284
01:10:23,349 --> 01:10:25,786
and tells the airport
to stop this.
1285
01:10:26,831 --> 01:10:28,876
They don't want us to be digging for the wreckage.
1286
01:10:29,268 --> 01:10:30,182
Saphir: Okay.
1287
01:10:32,489 --> 01:10:35,100
So you know, all so close,
but no cigar.
1288
01:10:37,015 --> 01:10:38,495
Permission has to come
from somewhere else.
1289
01:10:39,887 --> 01:10:40,801
I, you know...
1290
01:10:41,628 --> 01:10:44,022
My principle is that it's better
to ask for forgiveness
1291
01:10:44,196 --> 01:10:45,110
than permission.
1292
01:10:45,806 --> 01:10:47,982
- No, no, no.
- No?
1293
01:10:48,244 --> 01:10:49,636
Okay. No, in the airport, no.
1294
01:10:49,941 --> 01:10:51,421
In the airport, it's better
to ask for permission
1295
01:10:51,595 --> 01:10:53,423
- than forgiveness.
1296
01:11:31,156 --> 01:11:32,766
Goran: Isn't that
a bit too early?
1297
01:11:33,854 --> 01:11:35,856
It's never too early
for cigars, Goran.
1298
01:11:40,557 --> 01:11:42,341
- You're shaking.
- Yeah.
1299
01:11:43,908 --> 01:11:45,126
All the...
1300
01:11:47,346 --> 01:11:49,827
all the activities with looking
for the wreckage has
1301
01:11:50,044 --> 01:11:51,742
really gone to my nerves.
1302
01:12:01,142 --> 01:12:03,057
I thought you were
a cool man, Mads?
1303
01:12:03,449 --> 01:12:04,537
No, but, you know...
1304
01:12:09,150 --> 01:12:10,238
You know the feeling you have,
1305
01:12:10,674 --> 01:12:12,371
when you're really close
to something, but...
1306
01:12:13,198 --> 01:12:17,028
then you are further away
than ever before?
1307
01:12:21,902 --> 01:12:24,340
Saphir: Is that the reason this story is still a mystery?
1308
01:12:25,515 --> 01:12:28,779
- Mads: What?
- The reason why it became
also fiction?
1309
01:12:30,084 --> 01:12:31,259
Mads: It's not...
1310
01:12:31,869 --> 01:12:33,653
- This is not fiction.
- Okay.
1311
01:12:34,524 --> 01:12:36,961
- This is a documentary.
- A documentary? All right.
1312
01:12:37,222 --> 01:12:38,397
But...
1313
01:12:46,710 --> 01:12:49,103
Mads: To be honest, I was never really interested
1314
01:12:49,321 --> 01:12:50,714
in the legacy
of Dag Hammarskjold.
1315
01:12:51,062 --> 01:12:53,020
Because, at the end of the day,
1316
01:12:53,281 --> 01:12:55,936
most people have never heard about Dag Hammarskjold.
1317
01:12:56,372 --> 01:12:58,591
And when you get to see him,
he comes across
1318
01:12:58,809 --> 01:13:01,507
as a goofy character
from a screwball comedy.
1319
01:13:04,728 --> 01:13:06,730
The explanation
is a very simple one.
1320
01:13:07,165 --> 01:13:10,081
Mads: For me, Dag Hammarskjold
was most of all a ticket
1321
01:13:10,386 --> 01:13:12,562
to all the things
I really enjoy.
1322
01:13:12,823 --> 01:13:14,607
Tracking down
Belgian mercenaries,
1323
01:13:15,173 --> 01:13:17,567
telling tales of evil men
who dress in white.
1324
01:13:17,958 --> 01:13:20,526
The ace of spades
found at crime scenes.
1325
01:13:21,266 --> 01:13:24,182
Rumors about secret
African societies.
1326
01:13:24,878 --> 01:13:26,924
That is why I went along
for the ride,
1327
01:13:27,315 --> 01:13:29,448
not really knowing
where it would lead.
1328
01:13:40,894 --> 01:13:44,028
For six years, Goran and I,
worked the murder case.
1329
01:13:44,724 --> 01:13:47,161
We travelled all over Africa
and Europe,
1330
01:13:47,466 --> 01:13:49,076
roaming around in archives
1331
01:13:49,337 --> 01:13:52,515
and conducting enormous
amounts of interviews
1332
01:13:52,819 --> 01:13:55,431
with elderly white,
liver-spotted men.
1333
01:13:58,521 --> 01:14:00,523
We did have a few wins
along the way.
1334
01:14:02,089 --> 01:14:04,440
In the archives
of a former British spy,
1335
01:14:04,657 --> 01:14:07,094
we discovered
a never before seen telex,
1336
01:14:07,617 --> 01:14:10,358
from the rebel leader
of Katanga, Moise Tshombe,
1337
01:14:10,533 --> 01:14:11,534
to the Prime Minister
1338
01:14:12,186 --> 01:14:13,579
of the British Protectorate,
Rhodesia.
1339
01:14:14,232 --> 01:14:17,322
Here, Tshombe asks
for having two fighter jets
1340
01:14:17,583 --> 01:14:19,019
delivered immediately.
1341
01:14:19,672 --> 01:14:22,632
The telex is dated
the day before Hammarskjold
1342
01:14:22,849 --> 01:14:26,113
was to come to Ndola for peace talks with Tshombe.
1343
01:14:26,592 --> 01:14:27,637
But no one knows
1344
01:14:28,333 --> 01:14:29,856
if the fighter jets
were ever delivered.
1345
01:14:30,509 --> 01:14:31,989
And, not to forget,
we found this
1346
01:14:32,206 --> 01:14:33,773
never before published picture
1347
01:14:33,991 --> 01:14:36,080
of Hammarskjold's plane
after the crash.
1348
01:14:36,863 --> 01:14:39,126
It shows a big hole
in the tail fin.
1349
01:14:39,431 --> 01:14:42,347
But, when all is said and done, it's just a hole
1350
01:14:42,739 --> 01:14:44,175
and, who knows?
1351
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:49,006
So, I began looking
for a way out,
1352
01:14:49,180 --> 01:14:51,138
because one thing
I do care about
1353
01:14:51,443 --> 01:14:52,923
is my own legacy.
1354
01:14:55,926 --> 01:14:58,015
It's because when they found
Hammarskjold's body...
1355
01:14:58,842 --> 01:15:01,235
he had a playing card
in his shirt collar.
1356
01:15:02,367 --> 01:15:03,411
And...
1357
01:15:04,587 --> 01:15:06,502
I met a man who told me that...
1358
01:15:07,415 --> 01:15:08,504
he was at the crash site
1359
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:10,549
that the playing card sitting
in his shirt collar
1360
01:15:10,723 --> 01:15:11,898
was the ace of spades.
1361
01:15:17,556 --> 01:15:19,863
If Goran Bjorkdahl and I,
did not manage
1362
01:15:20,037 --> 01:15:21,212
to crack open the case,
1363
01:15:21,691 --> 01:15:24,824
I would employ all the old tricks of my trade.
1364
01:15:26,043 --> 01:15:27,914
Costume play and role play.
1365
01:15:28,219 --> 01:15:31,570
Pith helmets and dressing up
like Dr. Maxwell.
1366
01:15:32,266 --> 01:15:33,833
This is also why I hatched
the idea
1367
01:15:34,007 --> 01:15:35,879
about employing not only one...
1368
01:15:36,923 --> 01:15:38,534
but two African secretaries,
1369
01:15:39,143 --> 01:15:42,146
hoping they would somehow
save my shipwrecked film
1370
01:15:42,363 --> 01:15:43,930
with their mere presence.
1371
01:15:44,757 --> 01:15:47,804
If you ask me, why two secretaries, not one?
1372
01:15:48,326 --> 01:15:49,936
- Are we rolling?
- man: Yes.
1373
01:15:50,458 --> 01:15:51,895
Mads: I cannot explain it.
1374
01:15:53,113 --> 01:15:54,985
So, Clarinah, where were we?
1375
01:15:55,159 --> 01:15:57,640
It was an experiment.
1376
01:15:59,163 --> 01:16:01,905
In short, I was hoping
this charade would cover up
1377
01:16:02,079 --> 01:16:03,602
my failures as a journalist.
1378
01:16:04,385 --> 01:16:07,780
But instead, something much worse happened.
1379
01:16:08,259 --> 01:16:10,348
All my fantasies came true.
1380
01:16:10,914 --> 01:16:14,352
To be more precise, unknowingly, Goran Bjorkdahl and I,
1381
01:16:14,700 --> 01:16:17,703
were on the verge of discovering a kind of horror
1382
01:16:17,964 --> 01:16:21,141
which would put
all my shenanigans to shame.
1383
01:16:22,665 --> 01:16:24,623
There are still
some question marks here.
1384
01:16:25,624 --> 01:16:27,670
There's a lot of question marks,
Goran.
1385
01:16:27,887 --> 01:16:28,932
Yeah.
1386
01:16:33,632 --> 01:16:37,418
I think one of us have
to go back to South Africa to...
1387
01:16:39,159 --> 01:16:42,815
study SAIMR more.
To really... You know,
1388
01:16:43,381 --> 01:16:45,470
get to the heart of the matter.
1389
01:16:53,652 --> 01:16:56,394
You have a list in front of you?
1390
01:16:57,830 --> 01:17:00,311
- Goran: Yes.
- What kind of list is that?
1391
01:17:00,659 --> 01:17:04,271
Goran: That is a list of people
who responded to an advert that
1392
01:17:04,489 --> 01:17:06,491
Keith Maxwell put out in 1989,
1393
01:17:06,665 --> 01:17:09,537
when he was looking
for mercenaries...
1394
01:17:11,235 --> 01:17:13,150
and could be willing
to sign up for a...
1395
01:17:14,064 --> 01:17:16,022
military operation in Africa.
1396
01:17:17,633 --> 01:17:19,635
- Mads: For SAIMR?
- Goran: For SAIMR, yes.
1397
01:17:20,418 --> 01:17:22,725
We have this long list of names,
1398
01:17:23,247 --> 01:17:24,857
and we are basically
going through all the names,
1399
01:17:25,031 --> 01:17:26,554
trying to find
their phone numbers.
1400
01:17:30,776 --> 01:17:31,821
man: Yeah?
1401
01:17:32,604 --> 01:17:36,042
Mads: I am calling
because of a list of men
1402
01:17:36,260 --> 01:17:40,003
who responded to adverts
from a group known as SAIMR.
1403
01:17:40,438 --> 01:17:41,526
man: Yes.
1404
01:17:41,831 --> 01:17:43,702
Mads: I believe
you are one of them.
1405
01:17:44,137 --> 01:17:45,051
man: Yes.
1406
01:17:45,965 --> 01:17:48,098
Mads: What can you tell me
about this group?
1407
01:17:48,794 --> 01:17:51,667
man: Well, we cannot talk
about it yet.
1408
01:17:52,102 --> 01:17:53,016
It's a bit dangerous.
1409
01:17:53,973 --> 01:17:57,977
So, we are not too keen
on talking about things.
1410
01:17:58,674 --> 01:18:02,547
- -man: My own involvement in...
1411
01:18:03,330 --> 01:18:04,941
the forces that'd be at the time
1412
01:18:05,158 --> 01:18:07,683
and the implications thereof,
and what we had to do
1413
01:18:07,944 --> 01:18:09,902
and get up to. Well, you know...
1414
01:18:10,860 --> 01:18:13,601
I don't know if I am willing
to divulge anything on that.
1415
01:18:14,211 --> 01:18:16,082
Goran: Okay. But can you
at least confirm
1416
01:18:16,256 --> 01:18:17,693
that SAIMR was real?
1417
01:18:17,867 --> 01:18:19,782
That it did exist
at one point in time?
1418
01:18:19,999 --> 01:18:21,131
man: I can't...
1419
01:18:21,784 --> 01:18:24,438
I'm not at the liberty
of speaking about it, Sir.
1420
01:18:26,919 --> 01:18:28,268
man: What I did, I did.
1421
01:18:28,616 --> 01:18:31,184
And what I did,
as far as I'm concerned,
1422
01:18:31,402 --> 01:18:32,838
I was doing the right thing.
1423
01:18:33,447 --> 01:18:35,623
And yeah.
We'll leave it at that.
1424
01:18:36,363 --> 01:18:40,150
You must find other people that are maybe willing to discuss it,
1425
01:18:40,367 --> 01:18:42,065
because I am definitely not.
1426
01:18:46,722 --> 01:18:48,898
man: Where did you get
my number from?
1427
01:18:49,942 --> 01:18:51,683
It's not open to the public.
1428
01:18:56,688 --> 01:18:59,038
Goran: Yeah, since most
of these people have
1429
01:18:59,386 --> 01:19:01,388
shown to be unwilling
to speak on the phone,
1430
01:19:01,606 --> 01:19:04,870
we will just, you know,
go to their houses
1431
01:19:05,044 --> 01:19:06,916
and try to approach them,
you know.
1432
01:19:07,655 --> 01:19:09,919
Some may just tell us
to fuck off,
1433
01:19:10,136 --> 01:19:11,703
and others may be willing
to talk.
1434
01:19:13,052 --> 01:19:14,184
Goran and I, we...
1435
01:19:15,533 --> 01:19:16,621
find the street address...
1436
01:19:17,361 --> 01:19:19,711
corresponding to one
of the names, a man named Clive.
1437
01:19:21,365 --> 01:19:22,932
Are you speaking about
the Maritime Research?
1438
01:19:23,106 --> 01:19:24,194
Are you speaking of that,
are you?
1439
01:19:24,455 --> 01:19:25,543
- Yes.
- Yes.
1440
01:19:25,935 --> 01:19:26,892
Oh, I know, I done training
with them
1441
01:19:27,414 --> 01:19:29,155
- for about three months.
- Three months?
1442
01:19:29,460 --> 01:19:32,202
And then, afterwards,
everything went basically quiet.
1443
01:19:32,593 --> 01:19:33,551
Okay?
1444
01:19:34,378 --> 01:19:35,727
I can try and look. I know,
I've got a certificate
1445
01:19:35,901 --> 01:19:36,989
that I was issued with.
1446
01:19:37,685 --> 01:19:40,297
- From the Maritime...
- Mads: You do? You have that?
1447
01:19:40,471 --> 01:19:41,515
I've got a certificate.
1448
01:19:41,777 --> 01:19:42,690
Mads: Could you find that
for us?
1449
01:19:43,691 --> 01:19:45,955
- That would be a great help.
- Yes. I can find it for you.
1450
01:19:57,140 --> 01:19:58,228
Clive: Here we go.
1451
01:19:59,751 --> 01:20:01,666
This was 1993.
1452
01:20:02,536 --> 01:20:05,104
- Incredible.
- Is it '93?
1453
01:20:05,539 --> 01:20:08,064
- It is the real deal.
- Can I take a quick look?
1454
01:20:18,465 --> 01:20:20,728
He went to a secret
SAIMR training camp...
1455
01:20:20,990 --> 01:20:22,643
- Mm-hmm.
- ...outside Johannesburg,
1456
01:20:23,383 --> 01:20:26,386
where they were wearing
white clothes.
1457
01:20:27,126 --> 01:20:28,606
I know, Clive,
it's a long time ago,
1458
01:20:28,780 --> 01:20:30,347
but can you recollect...
1459
01:20:31,261 --> 01:20:34,394
names of anybody in charge
of SAIMR when you were there?
1460
01:20:36,701 --> 01:20:38,485
There was one guy from the NCIS,
whatever,
1461
01:20:38,659 --> 01:20:40,052
the Intelligence Bureau,
I remember.
1462
01:20:40,313 --> 01:20:42,446
- And there was an American guy.
- An American guy?
1463
01:20:42,707 --> 01:20:44,665
Curly hair, black hair,
with a mustache.
1464
01:20:46,885 --> 01:20:49,409
Mads: The American guy
is Robert Cedars.
1465
01:20:49,888 --> 01:20:52,586
His résumé reads
like a real-life Rambo.
1466
01:20:52,848 --> 01:20:55,546
Ex-Green Beret. Ex-mercenary.
1467
01:20:55,851 --> 01:20:58,288
He has worked
for the Anglo-American
Mining Corporation
1468
01:20:58,723 --> 01:21:00,159
and the King of Afghanistan.
1469
01:21:00,638 --> 01:21:04,555
And among his listed interests are parapsychology
1470
01:21:04,772 --> 01:21:06,035
and rock 'n' roll.
1471
01:21:11,170 --> 01:21:14,130
Mads: Do you remember a man
named Keith Maxwell?
1472
01:21:15,827 --> 01:21:18,221
man: I met him a few times.
1473
01:21:18,438 --> 01:21:22,703
He was supposed to organize us as a security guard.
1474
01:21:22,921 --> 01:21:24,357
But I don't know.
1475
01:21:24,967 --> 01:21:27,186
They were supposed
to hire me to...
1476
01:21:28,144 --> 01:21:31,190
train people. But, shit,
they never did nothing.
1477
01:21:31,364 --> 01:21:33,714
I don't think they went anywhere or did anything.
1478
01:21:33,932 --> 01:21:36,195
So, I don't know
what the hell they did.
1479
01:21:36,848 --> 01:21:38,545
I couldn't be bothered
with this.
1480
01:21:39,851 --> 01:21:41,331
So, anyway, good luck
with whatever
1481
01:21:41,766 --> 01:21:44,029
you're looking for. Find out who killed President Kennedy,
1482
01:21:44,290 --> 01:21:45,813
do something important.
1483
01:21:47,641 --> 01:21:50,906
Mads: Okay, so, in '93,
we have you on a farm
1484
01:21:51,167 --> 01:21:52,646
- here in Johannesburg...
- Clive: Yes.
1485
01:21:53,517 --> 01:21:57,390
...training together
with Bob Cedars and Maxwell.
1486
01:21:57,608 --> 01:21:59,827
- Dressing in whites?
- Whites. Yeah.
1487
01:22:02,526 --> 01:22:04,702
The naval shirt, white pants...
1488
01:22:06,486 --> 01:22:08,662
There wasn't any firearms
given to us or anything.
1489
01:22:08,836 --> 01:22:11,013
It was more lectures
and that kind of stuff.
1490
01:22:11,404 --> 01:22:14,364
It was based
on normal military co-ops.
1491
01:22:16,975 --> 01:22:19,064
- Mads: Perfect.
1492
01:22:21,023 --> 01:22:22,241
Fascinating.
1493
01:22:26,115 --> 01:22:29,118
Then, Goran and I called
another name of the list,
1494
01:22:29,596 --> 01:22:31,685
a man named Alexander Jones.
1495
01:22:37,039 --> 01:22:39,780
-Alexander: Hello.
- Yes, hello, Mr. Jones?
1496
01:22:40,216 --> 01:22:41,130
Alexander: Yes.
1497
01:22:41,826 --> 01:22:45,134
And when we phone him,
I simply ask him...
1498
01:22:46,352 --> 01:22:49,747
Did you ever hear anybody
discuss Dag Hammarskjold
1499
01:22:50,052 --> 01:22:52,141
while you were active in SAIMR?
1500
01:22:56,101 --> 01:22:58,277
Alexander: I see,
now it's starting to get...
1501
01:22:58,886 --> 01:23:00,279
Now I'm starting
to get uncomfortable
1502
01:23:00,453 --> 01:23:01,846
with the questioning.
1503
01:23:02,673 --> 01:23:03,717
And...
1504
01:23:04,414 --> 01:23:05,981
Soon after, we meet with him.
1505
01:23:07,069 --> 01:23:09,941
And he is the guy
we have been looking for...
1506
01:23:10,942 --> 01:23:12,465
for six years.
1507
01:23:13,075 --> 01:23:17,079
So, simply put, what is SAIMR?
1508
01:23:18,428 --> 01:23:22,910
Alexander: SAIMR was
a clandestine mercenary...
1509
01:23:26,914 --> 01:23:28,742
organization for hire.
1510
01:23:30,918 --> 01:23:32,050
Financed by whom?
1511
01:23:32,442 --> 01:23:33,965
Alexander:
Financed by foreign governments.
1512
01:23:35,140 --> 01:23:37,316
And what was
the purpose of SAIMR?
1513
01:23:38,187 --> 01:23:40,450
SAIMR was there to go and...
1514
01:23:41,625 --> 01:23:43,496
destabilize certain countries.
1515
01:23:44,715 --> 01:23:46,021
And...
1516
01:23:46,934 --> 01:23:48,197
No, basically...
1517
01:23:49,285 --> 01:23:51,243
we were soldiers.
1518
01:23:51,635 --> 01:23:55,030
And what was your role,
specifically?
1519
01:23:55,639 --> 01:23:58,555
Were you in the front lines,
so to speak?
1520
01:23:58,729 --> 01:24:03,342
Yes, I was definitely
in the front line.
1521
01:24:03,516 --> 01:24:06,911
Operational front line.
Hand-to-hand front line.
1522
01:24:07,346 --> 01:24:09,087
Fighting front line.
1523
01:24:10,915 --> 01:24:13,222
Leading operations,
if you want to call it that.
1524
01:24:13,613 --> 01:24:15,180
Did you kill people yourself?
1525
01:24:18,053 --> 01:24:19,228
Yes.
1526
01:24:20,881 --> 01:24:23,232
Mads: Is it dangerous for you
talking to us about this?
1527
01:24:23,449 --> 01:24:24,494
Alexander: Definitely.
1528
01:24:25,277 --> 01:24:26,626
Very. I mean...
1529
01:24:27,192 --> 01:24:29,368
I could get backlash
from my own people.
1530
01:24:31,805 --> 01:24:33,416
You're sitting
with a list of names...
1531
01:24:34,373 --> 01:24:36,071
and all of those names
on that list...
1532
01:24:36,767 --> 01:24:37,681
are...
1533
01:24:38,116 --> 01:24:39,422
can be verified.
1534
01:24:42,773 --> 01:24:45,906
Mads: But why are you taking
that risk, may I ask?
1535
01:24:47,038 --> 01:24:48,909
I think it's about time
that we need closure.
1536
01:24:49,084 --> 01:24:50,172
I need personal closure.
1537
01:25:06,144 --> 01:25:08,320
Alexander: Basically, this is...
1538
01:25:09,191 --> 01:25:10,540
operational...
1539
01:25:11,584 --> 01:25:13,151
headquarters for SAIMR.
1540
01:25:18,591 --> 01:25:21,290
You should still be able
to see reminiscences
1541
01:25:21,594 --> 01:25:24,336
of military personnel here.
1542
01:25:26,164 --> 01:25:28,123
For example... Oh, we can go.
There is the barracks
1543
01:25:28,297 --> 01:25:29,515
down that side.
1544
01:25:33,911 --> 01:25:37,436
Mads: How many people
did it involve? SAIMR?
1545
01:25:39,786 --> 01:25:41,397
Anything from...
1546
01:25:42,528 --> 01:25:44,922
- 5,000 people upwards.
- Mads: That many?
1547
01:25:45,096 --> 01:25:47,403
That many.
So SAIMR was a big organization.
1548
01:25:49,318 --> 01:25:52,364
In front of us now,
would have been your main hall,
1549
01:25:52,582 --> 01:25:53,931
which would've been
your mess hall
1550
01:25:54,149 --> 01:25:56,586
and your gathering place.
1551
01:25:58,109 --> 01:25:58,979
Look...
1552
01:25:59,893 --> 01:26:02,505
SAIMR was very clever
in the way that they operated.
1553
01:26:02,853 --> 01:26:04,420
You and I could be sitting
in the same room,
1554
01:26:04,768 --> 01:26:06,248
and you could belong
to the medical division
1555
01:26:06,465 --> 01:26:08,946
of SAIMR and I wouldn't know you
from a bar of soap.
1556
01:26:09,512 --> 01:26:11,166
There would be...
1557
01:26:13,907 --> 01:26:15,344
dinners... formal dinners,
you know,
1558
01:26:15,735 --> 01:26:17,563
depends on celebrating
different occasions
1559
01:26:17,737 --> 01:26:18,912
in the history of SAIMR.
1560
01:26:19,870 --> 01:26:21,263
That type of stuff.
1561
01:26:22,525 --> 01:26:26,050
Maxwell would come there
in his old 18th century
1562
01:26:26,572 --> 01:26:29,009
- commodore's uniform.
- Mads: Really?
1563
01:26:29,227 --> 01:26:30,533
- Yeah.
- Mads: Like a Lord Nelson?
1564
01:26:30,707 --> 01:26:32,012
That's right. Yeah.
1565
01:26:33,971 --> 01:26:35,190
With a hat... Everything.
1566
01:26:35,755 --> 01:26:36,974
With a sword.
1567
01:26:38,758 --> 01:26:41,674
Look, they were very sucker
to the 1800's...
1568
01:26:43,807 --> 01:26:48,551
British naval traditions
and attire.
1569
01:26:49,508 --> 01:26:53,338
Especially the hierarchy.
We wore normal whites.
1570
01:26:53,860 --> 01:26:55,035
This a picture of...
1571
01:26:56,254 --> 01:26:57,386
- Maxwell.
- Goran: Yes.
1572
01:26:57,864 --> 01:26:58,952
- Yes.
- Mads: He was looking
like that?
1573
01:26:59,605 --> 01:27:01,651
Yes. That's exactly what
Commodore Maxwell looked like.
1574
01:27:01,825 --> 01:27:03,218
Mads: Did he wear white
all the time?
1575
01:27:03,392 --> 01:27:04,393
All the time.
1576
01:27:05,176 --> 01:27:07,700
I never ever saw him wear
anything but white.
1577
01:27:07,961 --> 01:27:10,137
- Mads: Always white?
- Always white.
1578
01:27:12,575 --> 01:27:14,403
This is Maxwell. Yeah.
1579
01:27:15,926 --> 01:27:17,449
Very intelligent person.
1580
01:27:19,277 --> 01:27:20,539
Very manipulative.
1581
01:27:24,848 --> 01:27:26,284
He commanded respect.
1582
01:27:26,937 --> 01:27:28,808
If you met him,
you just couldn't help
1583
01:27:28,982 --> 01:27:30,114
showing respect
to the gentleman.
1584
01:27:30,462 --> 01:27:32,116
- Mads: He was charismatic?
- Very.
1585
01:27:33,552 --> 01:27:35,815
But also very dangerous.
1586
01:27:36,555 --> 01:27:38,122
Mads: Dangerous in what way?
1587
01:27:38,383 --> 01:27:40,167
If he didn't like you
and if you posed a threat
1588
01:27:40,342 --> 01:27:42,257
to him, he would take you out.
1589
01:27:43,867 --> 01:27:45,216
- Mads: He would simply
kill you?
- Yeah.
1590
01:27:45,912 --> 01:27:47,740
- Mads: Himself?
- By himself, yeah.
1591
01:27:48,741 --> 01:27:51,831
Mads: And what kind of
operations were you doing?
1592
01:27:52,484 --> 01:27:53,746
Well,
it was clandestine operations.
1593
01:27:53,964 --> 01:27:56,532
We were involved in coups...
1594
01:27:57,054 --> 01:28:00,013
taking over countries
for other leaders.
1595
01:28:00,187 --> 01:28:02,712
We were involved
in Mozambique...
1596
01:28:04,148 --> 01:28:08,108
spreading the AIDS virus
through medical conditions.
1597
01:28:08,283 --> 01:28:13,549
We were involved in Angola
with Dr. Jonas Savimbi...
1598
01:28:14,593 --> 01:28:16,769
for various operations.
We gave military support.
1599
01:28:17,553 --> 01:28:20,643
Mads: So, people were killed
during these operations?
1600
01:28:20,947 --> 01:28:22,122
Oh, definitely.
1601
01:28:23,210 --> 01:28:25,952
- Goran: You mentioned...
- Goran, can we...
1602
01:28:26,126 --> 01:28:28,128
I'll just do the question again
and then you can come in?
1603
01:28:28,303 --> 01:28:29,434
Goran: Okay.
1604
01:28:29,869 --> 01:28:33,351
Mads: You mentioned
actively spreading AIDS?
1605
01:28:34,396 --> 01:28:37,399
There was a unit from SAIMR.
1606
01:28:38,487 --> 01:28:42,229
That... One of the things was
that we went into...
1607
01:28:44,754 --> 01:28:47,974
- African countries.
- Mads: And how was that done,
exactly?
1608
01:28:48,410 --> 01:28:51,108
- Through inoculation.
- Mads: Through vaccines?
1609
01:28:51,282 --> 01:28:52,588
Yeah, through vaccines.
1610
01:28:53,023 --> 01:28:56,548
Pretending to inoculate people
and that type of thing.
1611
01:28:56,809 --> 01:28:59,943
Mads: The idea being to kill
black people?
1612
01:29:00,117 --> 01:29:01,858
Yeah. To eradicate black people.
1613
01:29:02,728 --> 01:29:05,688
You must understand, the concept
was that AIDS was a killer.
1614
01:29:06,123 --> 01:29:08,125
It was incurable
at that point in time,
1615
01:29:08,604 --> 01:29:13,086
so it was let to believe that
if you infected people...
1616
01:29:13,913 --> 01:29:15,611
it was "The quick..."
1617
01:29:16,829 --> 01:29:18,831
"non-militaristic..."
1618
01:29:19,832 --> 01:29:20,833
approach...
1619
01:29:21,834 --> 01:29:22,966
to eliminate...
1620
01:29:23,706 --> 01:29:24,620
black people.
1621
01:29:25,577 --> 01:29:27,753
Mads: And that is something
you know for a fact? That...
1622
01:29:28,580 --> 01:29:33,193
AIDS was actively being spread
to other countries?
1623
01:29:33,498 --> 01:29:35,718
Yes. To African countries.
1624
01:29:36,153 --> 01:29:38,329
Before we continue
with Alexander Jones...
1625
01:29:39,156 --> 01:29:43,378
I should tell you about
the case of Dagmar Feil.
1626
01:29:51,951 --> 01:29:53,736
- woman: Isn't it beautiful?
- woman 2: It's fantastic!
1627
01:29:53,910 --> 01:29:55,259
woman: Like, home from home.
Hey, Dagmar,
1628
01:29:55,564 --> 01:29:56,869
smile for the camera.
1629
01:29:58,393 --> 01:29:59,916
I happened to discover...
1630
01:30:00,873 --> 01:30:04,399
a advert placed
in a South African newspaper...
1631
01:30:05,312 --> 01:30:06,357
from SAIMR...
1632
01:30:07,053 --> 01:30:10,796
where they are looking
for the killers of Dagmar Feil.
1633
01:30:12,494 --> 01:30:13,495
And...
1634
01:30:16,106 --> 01:30:18,935
We managed to find
the brother of Dagmar Feil,
1635
01:30:19,239 --> 01:30:20,327
Karl Feil.
1636
01:30:20,719 --> 01:30:22,547
woman: Shake it out.
Shake the thing.
1637
01:30:29,075 --> 01:30:30,729
My sister came to me
and she said to me
1638
01:30:30,903 --> 01:30:33,384
she needed to confide in me.
She needed to sit with me.
1639
01:30:34,994 --> 01:30:36,082
And...
1640
01:30:38,563 --> 01:30:41,087
- Sorry, I just...
- No worries. Of course.
1641
01:30:42,524 --> 01:30:44,656
I have a lot of guilt
about it, because...
1642
01:30:47,964 --> 01:30:49,487
She actually sat with me
and said to me,
1643
01:30:49,661 --> 01:30:51,663
she thinks that they are going
to kill her.
1644
01:30:52,969 --> 01:30:55,450
- She told you that?
- Yeah, and I said to her, who?
1645
01:30:55,841 --> 01:30:57,539
And she said she doesn't know,
but she thinks
1646
01:30:57,713 --> 01:30:58,844
they're after her.
1647
01:30:59,628 --> 01:31:02,282
And she said that they'd already
killed three or four people
1648
01:31:03,109 --> 01:31:05,242
in the same team
that she was a part of.
1649
01:31:05,460 --> 01:31:06,722
And I said what team?
And she said
1650
01:31:06,896 --> 01:31:07,940
she couldn't tell me.
1651
01:31:08,506 --> 01:31:09,681
The other thing she said is,
1652
01:31:09,942 --> 01:31:11,378
she needs to come
to church with me.
1653
01:31:11,596 --> 01:31:12,945
She needs to make right
with God.
1654
01:31:13,424 --> 01:31:16,819
She fully expects to be dead
within the next couple of weeks.
1655
01:31:17,428 --> 01:31:21,258
His sister, Dagmar,
was recruited into SAIMR.
1656
01:31:23,086 --> 01:31:26,698
She had a background
as a marine biologist.
1657
01:31:28,352 --> 01:31:30,528
So I believe you got
your matric results?
1658
01:31:31,181 --> 01:31:32,399
I mean university?
1659
01:31:32,661 --> 01:31:33,923
University results. Yeah.
1660
01:31:34,097 --> 01:31:36,316
- How did it go?
- It was very good.
1661
01:31:36,882 --> 01:31:38,623
- What do you mean by "Good"?
1662
01:31:38,971 --> 01:31:42,148
- Well, I passed.
- How well did you pass?
1663
01:31:43,976 --> 01:31:45,500
She did mention...
1664
01:31:46,109 --> 01:31:47,937
in no particular detail, that...
1665
01:31:48,590 --> 01:31:50,592
what she'd studied
was particularly helpful
1666
01:31:50,809 --> 01:31:52,202
in the work
that she was doing then.
1667
01:31:52,550 --> 01:31:53,856
In other words,
the research element
1668
01:31:54,073 --> 01:31:56,032
of what she did
in marine biology was being...
1669
01:31:56,554 --> 01:31:59,252
she was using on a daily basis
in this particular role.
1670
01:31:59,775 --> 01:32:01,690
But what I found very peculiar,
is that she had
1671
01:32:01,864 --> 01:32:03,213
a regular office job,
1672
01:32:03,692 --> 01:32:05,868
working as a secretary
1673
01:32:06,346 --> 01:32:08,087
and admin assistant
in Johannesburg.
1674
01:32:08,305 --> 01:32:11,656
But yet, she was doing all this
research behind the scenes.
1675
01:32:12,265 --> 01:32:14,354
But she never ever told me
what it was.
1676
01:32:15,051 --> 01:32:16,835
Mads: Was it like working
in a laboratory?
1677
01:32:17,009 --> 01:32:17,880
Yes.
1678
01:32:18,271 --> 01:32:19,577
- Mads: In a laboratory?
- Yes.
1679
01:32:20,056 --> 01:32:21,318
- Mads: Clinical research?
- Yes.
1680
01:32:21,623 --> 01:32:24,321
- Mads: But where?
- She never told me.
1681
01:32:25,801 --> 01:32:29,369
The topic of AIDS research
came up several times,
1682
01:32:29,544 --> 01:32:31,023
quite loosely, in conversation.
1683
01:32:31,850 --> 01:32:33,765
I never put two
and two together.
1684
01:32:34,723 --> 01:32:38,117
And she became
a white supremacist.
1685
01:32:39,336 --> 01:32:43,340
And she travelled to Mozambique
1686
01:32:43,558 --> 01:32:48,171
and other African countries
bordering with South Africa...
1687
01:32:49,128 --> 01:32:50,086
to...
1688
01:32:55,395 --> 01:32:56,571
bring vaccines...
1689
01:32:58,442 --> 01:32:59,443
to people there.
1690
01:33:00,009 --> 01:33:01,880
Countries such as Mozambique,
Angola...
1691
01:33:02,054 --> 01:33:05,710
Yes. Swaziland,
Botswana came up several times.
1692
01:33:06,493 --> 01:33:09,192
Mads: But she discovers
that these vaccines
1693
01:33:09,409 --> 01:33:10,759
from SAIMR are...
1694
01:33:11,586 --> 01:33:12,674
contaminated,
1695
01:33:13,239 --> 01:33:15,111
and she wants to tell...
1696
01:33:16,591 --> 01:33:19,419
the police, the authorities,
about what is going on.
1697
01:33:19,985 --> 01:33:21,944
But before she manages
to do so,
1698
01:33:22,335 --> 01:33:23,510
she is murdered.
1699
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:27,036
Karl: And I dashed
across Johannesburg
1700
01:33:27,210 --> 01:33:28,472
and got to her apartment.
1701
01:33:28,907 --> 01:33:31,344
and I found her white VW Beetle parked in front
1702
01:33:31,562 --> 01:33:33,172
of the security gates
of her flat.
1703
01:33:34,217 --> 01:33:35,653
I found her lying in the street.
1704
01:33:38,787 --> 01:33:39,831
Mads: Yeah.
1705
01:33:42,921 --> 01:33:44,227
Sorry.
1706
01:33:48,013 --> 01:33:49,754
Such a long time ago,
and it is still
1707
01:33:50,189 --> 01:33:51,190
a bit of a shock.
1708
01:33:51,713 --> 01:33:54,280
- It's November 1990?
- Yeah.
1709
01:33:55,151 --> 01:33:57,109
Mads: Did the police
investigate this...
1710
01:33:57,893 --> 01:33:59,068
- murder?
- man: No.
1711
01:33:59,764 --> 01:34:02,898
They had absolutely no interest
in pursuing the case at all.
1712
01:34:03,942 --> 01:34:06,641
- Mads: Why?
- I can't tell you.
1713
01:34:11,471 --> 01:34:13,299
Then, we go to see
Alexander Jones.
1714
01:34:13,865 --> 01:34:15,084
Alexander: We were at war.
1715
01:34:15,693 --> 01:34:18,653
Black people in South Africa
were the enemy.
1716
01:34:21,133 --> 01:34:23,092
So it was about
white supremacy?
1717
01:34:23,353 --> 01:34:24,354
Definitely.
1718
01:34:25,529 --> 01:34:27,487
Definitely trying to retain
the white supremacy
1719
01:34:27,662 --> 01:34:28,880
on the African continent.
1720
01:34:30,099 --> 01:34:33,232
And furthermore, he tells us
that the purpose
1721
01:34:33,406 --> 01:34:34,886
of Maxwell's clinics
1722
01:34:35,408 --> 01:34:36,627
in and around Johannesburg,
1723
01:34:37,323 --> 01:34:39,630
was to infect
black people with...
1724
01:34:41,197 --> 01:34:42,459
HIV.
1725
01:34:43,025 --> 01:34:45,157
He had the one in Thokoza.
He had the one in Alex.
1726
01:34:45,418 --> 01:34:46,550
Mads: Yes.
1727
01:34:47,116 --> 01:34:48,421
If I'm not mistaken,
there was one on the East
1728
01:34:48,595 --> 01:34:49,684
or on the West Rand.
1729
01:34:49,988 --> 01:34:51,729
And these were
research facilities
1730
01:34:51,903 --> 01:34:53,600
for them to inject
1731
01:34:54,166 --> 01:34:55,124
people...
1732
01:34:55,820 --> 01:34:57,517
with a "solution"...
1733
01:34:58,257 --> 01:34:59,998
to say that they prevented AIDS
in it.
1734
01:35:00,172 --> 01:35:02,522
In the meantime, they were
injecting people with AIDS.
1735
01:35:03,393 --> 01:35:04,786
Mads: And he was only working
on black people
1736
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:06,091
- in these clinics?
- Yes.
1737
01:35:06,831 --> 01:35:08,398
- Mads: For almost nothing?
- Yeah.
1738
01:35:08,703 --> 01:35:11,053
That's what I am saying. So,
you know, what I mean...
1739
01:35:12,358 --> 01:35:14,578
What easier way
to get a big guinea pig?
1740
01:35:15,710 --> 01:35:17,233
That you live in
an apartheid system...
1741
01:35:17,799 --> 01:35:19,322
Black people have got no rights.
1742
01:35:20,018 --> 01:35:21,454
They need medical treatment.
1743
01:35:21,977 --> 01:35:22,847
There's a...
1744
01:35:23,587 --> 01:35:25,415
white "philanthropist"
coming in and saying,
1745
01:35:25,589 --> 01:35:26,938
"You know what?
I'll open up these clinics
1746
01:35:27,112 --> 01:35:28,940
and I'll treat you. I'll do..."
1747
01:35:30,028 --> 01:35:31,943
this in the meantime,
you're actually...
1748
01:35:33,162 --> 01:35:34,729
the wolf in sheep's clothing.
1749
01:35:37,209 --> 01:35:38,907
That's gruesome.
1750
01:36:02,844 --> 01:36:04,410
Mads: Did you visit
these clinics yourself?
1751
01:36:04,671 --> 01:36:05,977
Yes. I went to the clinic
in Alex,
1752
01:36:06,195 --> 01:36:07,936
where there was
the research facility.
1753
01:36:08,501 --> 01:36:12,157
And there was monitors.
There was tubes, there was...
1754
01:36:12,941 --> 01:36:16,379
A proper lab. If you wanna say,
a scientist's lab,
1755
01:36:16,553 --> 01:36:18,816
you know, a proper, freaky
scientist's lab. Definitely.
1756
01:36:19,425 --> 01:36:21,601
Goran: Were there clinics
also in other countries?
1757
01:36:22,864 --> 01:36:23,952
Well, look...
1758
01:36:24,822 --> 01:36:26,084
I know...
1759
01:36:26,868 --> 01:36:28,347
Personally, that I know of.
1760
01:36:28,521 --> 01:36:31,089
Our base of operation
for this project
1761
01:36:31,263 --> 01:36:32,438
was in Mozambique.
1762
01:36:33,396 --> 01:36:34,919
- That I can tell you.
- Mads: Where Dagmar Feil
1763
01:36:35,093 --> 01:36:36,225
- was working?
- Yes.
1764
01:36:37,313 --> 01:36:40,185
He knew about Dagmar Feil
and what she did.
1765
01:36:41,186 --> 01:36:43,841
She was recruited to do
medical research
1766
01:36:44,015 --> 01:36:45,364
in Maxwell's labs.
1767
01:36:46,626 --> 01:36:47,671
In Alexander.
1768
01:36:48,280 --> 01:36:50,935
And then obviously
she progressed and became
1769
01:36:51,109 --> 01:36:52,371
a part of the inner circle
1770
01:36:52,937 --> 01:36:55,070
for the operations, and she
went to Mozambique
1771
01:36:55,635 --> 01:36:56,723
to fulfill her...
1772
01:36:58,247 --> 01:36:59,291
obligations.
1773
01:37:00,075 --> 01:37:00,945
And...
1774
01:37:02,077 --> 01:37:03,165
when it came...
1775
01:37:03,992 --> 01:37:06,472
word got out that
she was going to testify.
1776
01:37:09,214 --> 01:37:11,434
Mads: She was going to inform
the authorities about SAIMR...
1777
01:37:11,608 --> 01:37:13,262
- Correct, yes.
- ...and the spread of AIDS?
1778
01:37:13,436 --> 01:37:14,437
That's right.
1779
01:37:15,090 --> 01:37:16,091
And...
1780
01:37:16,656 --> 01:37:18,267
I think it's well known
in our circles that
1781
01:37:18,441 --> 01:37:20,573
it was SAIMR themselves
that took her out.
1782
01:37:25,100 --> 01:37:27,493
Mads: But why would SAIMR
place that advert?
1783
01:37:29,104 --> 01:37:30,148
Why wouldn't they?
1784
01:37:30,845 --> 01:37:33,412
- Mads: It's like a decoy?
- Exactly.
1785
01:37:37,112 --> 01:37:39,288
Mads: Another possible spin is,
there was an interview
1786
01:37:39,854 --> 01:37:41,638
published in South Africa
1787
01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:44,989
with Maxwell and an ensign,
a woman named Debbie.
1788
01:37:45,598 --> 01:37:47,600
- She is the young lady?
- Mads: Yes.
1789
01:37:47,774 --> 01:37:48,732
- Yes.
- Mads: And...
1790
01:37:49,124 --> 01:37:50,125
Wait, she was at school,
1791
01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:51,648
and they recruited her
from school.
1792
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:53,693
Mads: Yes. We have tried
to track her down,
1793
01:37:53,868 --> 01:37:55,217
- but we can't find her.
- No. I don't think
1794
01:37:55,391 --> 01:37:56,783
she is around anymore.
1795
01:37:57,219 --> 01:37:58,698
- Mads: You don't think
she is alive anymore?
- Yeah.
1796
01:37:58,873 --> 01:38:00,135
Goran:
Could that be Dagmar Feil?
1797
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:01,614
Mads: No, no, it's not that one.
1798
01:38:01,876 --> 01:38:02,920
It's not.
It's two different women.
1799
01:38:03,225 --> 01:38:04,269
Mads: Her name
is Debbie Campbell.
1800
01:38:05,227 --> 01:38:07,577
- Goran: In the article, yes?
- No, but Debbie is blonde.
1801
01:38:15,237 --> 01:38:16,673
Mads: Would the South African...
1802
01:38:17,413 --> 01:38:19,371
government,
the apartheid regime,
1803
01:38:19,676 --> 01:38:23,245
would they have known
that SAIMR was spreading AIDS
1804
01:38:23,506 --> 01:38:25,551
inside South Africa,
and outside as well,
1805
01:38:25,725 --> 01:38:26,901
to kill off black people?
1806
01:38:29,729 --> 01:38:30,948
Highly likely.
1807
01:38:32,210 --> 01:38:34,169
That's why I'm telling you.
That's very...
1808
01:38:35,257 --> 01:38:37,085
That's why people were killed
for it.
1809
01:38:37,259 --> 01:38:38,869
Mads: That's why Dagmar Feil
was killed maybe?
1810
01:38:39,043 --> 01:38:39,914
Yeah.
1811
01:38:41,002 --> 01:38:42,438
That's why Dagmar was killed.
1812
01:38:47,312 --> 01:38:49,706
Dagmar: You're wasting
the champagne!
1813
01:38:51,621 --> 01:38:55,059
You're wasting
the champagne.
1814
01:38:56,147 --> 01:38:58,541
And after the death of Dagmar,
1815
01:38:59,020 --> 01:39:02,066
Dagmar's mother continues
to investigate the case.
1816
01:39:02,371 --> 01:39:05,243
She wants to find out
who killed her daughter.
1817
01:39:06,592 --> 01:39:09,813
She tried to give witness
about the event
1818
01:39:10,031 --> 01:39:12,642
to the Truth
and Reconciliation Commission.
1819
01:39:13,077 --> 01:39:15,645
They told her no, because
it was too controversial.
1820
01:39:16,646 --> 01:39:19,954
The murderers were never found.
The case was not investigated.
1821
01:39:20,606 --> 01:39:21,781
And they would not listen
to her.
1822
01:39:22,086 --> 01:39:23,479
In fact, I think,
the second or third time
1823
01:39:23,914 --> 01:39:25,698
that she went to the Truth
and Reconciliation Commission,
1824
01:39:25,872 --> 01:39:26,917
they escorted her out.
1825
01:39:27,570 --> 01:39:29,441
Just the mention
of the South African Maritime
1826
01:39:29,615 --> 01:39:31,226
Institute made people nervous.
1827
01:39:31,791 --> 01:39:33,706
They would not listen at all.
1828
01:39:34,881 --> 01:39:36,796
Then she befriends
a SAIMR officer,
1829
01:39:36,971 --> 01:39:38,494
I believe maybe it's Maxwell.
1830
01:39:40,235 --> 01:39:43,194
Who feeds her information
about SAIMR and her daughter.
1831
01:39:43,542 --> 01:39:44,674
Yes.
1832
01:39:45,022 --> 01:39:45,892
He approached my mum.
1833
01:39:46,589 --> 01:39:47,720
I don't know whether
it was out of guilt,
1834
01:39:47,894 --> 01:39:49,984
or just a prick
of his conscience.
1835
01:39:50,158 --> 01:39:51,898
He contacted my mother
and gave her
1836
01:39:52,073 --> 01:39:53,117
a whole lot of documents.
1837
01:39:53,422 --> 01:39:55,076
I believe they met
several times.
1838
01:39:56,033 --> 01:40:00,168
And in there are letterheads
of the South African
Maritime institute.
1839
01:40:00,907 --> 01:40:02,648
So, this was the first time
that I had ever heard
1840
01:40:02,822 --> 01:40:04,128
of that institute.
1841
01:40:04,824 --> 01:40:08,654
Mads: Not long after, we go to an address in Johannesburg,
1842
01:40:09,438 --> 01:40:10,569
where the...
1843
01:40:11,309 --> 01:40:14,921
personal belongings of Dagmar's mother are stored.
1844
01:40:17,533 --> 01:40:19,535
She's dead now. Dagmar's mother.
1845
01:40:20,927 --> 01:40:21,841
And...
1846
01:40:22,712 --> 01:40:25,976
in her belongings
we find an address book.
1847
01:40:27,456 --> 01:40:28,500
Goran: Uh-oh.
1848
01:40:29,153 --> 01:40:30,154
- Mads: What, Goran?
- I found
1849
01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:32,417
- an interesting name here.
- Mads: What?
1850
01:40:33,505 --> 01:40:35,246
Goran: Maxwell. "K. Maxwell".
1851
01:40:35,681 --> 01:40:37,335
- Mads: You have Maxwell?
- Goran: Yeah.
1852
01:40:39,294 --> 01:40:40,164
Mads: What?
1853
01:40:40,773 --> 01:40:42,819
Would they meet
on a regular basis? Or...
1854
01:40:42,993 --> 01:40:45,865
Most of it was telephonic.
And then, at one stage,
1855
01:40:46,605 --> 01:40:48,564
she was informed
that he's going to Namibia.
1856
01:40:49,043 --> 01:40:51,871
He's fleeing the country.
He doesn't feel safe here.
1857
01:40:52,089 --> 01:40:54,265
And he handed
all of this documentation to her
1858
01:40:54,439 --> 01:40:56,398
and she never heard
from him again.
1859
01:40:56,702 --> 01:40:58,313
Mads: Maxwell was fleeing
to Namibia?
1860
01:40:58,748 --> 01:41:01,881
The country of Namibia
came up frequently, yes.
1861
01:41:03,318 --> 01:41:05,102
- Goran: René Goor.
- Mads: No?
1862
01:41:07,148 --> 01:41:09,454
Here we have it. "Renée Goor."
1863
01:41:10,238 --> 01:41:11,413
"Namibia."
1864
01:41:11,848 --> 01:41:13,371
Alexander: That's René Goor.
He was in SAIMR.
1865
01:41:13,545 --> 01:41:15,634
He was destined
to take over from...
1866
01:41:16,592 --> 01:41:17,723
Commodore Maxwell.
1867
01:41:18,811 --> 01:41:20,030
Yes.
1868
01:41:20,465 --> 01:41:22,032
And in that book...
1869
01:41:24,513 --> 01:41:26,906
Dagmar's mother has made a...
1870
01:41:29,083 --> 01:41:30,562
a number of notes.
1871
01:41:32,086 --> 01:41:35,350
It says "Police", and then
something has been crossed out.
1872
01:41:35,915 --> 01:41:38,048
Then, there's part of a name...
1873
01:41:42,357 --> 01:41:44,837
ending E-N-I-E.
1874
01:41:45,490 --> 01:41:48,580
And then F-R-O-E-R...
1875
01:41:51,627 --> 01:41:54,108
No. This is Groenewald.
1876
01:41:55,457 --> 01:41:58,329
- Goran: It is?
- It says "Tienie Groenewald".
1877
01:41:58,764 --> 01:42:00,462
Goran: Wow.
1878
01:42:01,245 --> 01:42:05,249
It says "Tienie Groenewald
ordered Dagmar's murder
1879
01:42:05,728 --> 01:42:08,339
- plus four others."
- Goran: That's incredible.
1880
01:42:11,995 --> 01:42:16,130
In a way, it would make sense.
1881
01:42:17,218 --> 01:42:20,569
I mean, Tienie Groenewald,
he was a key person...
1882
01:42:22,223 --> 01:42:24,790
a top figure
in the Military Intelligence.
1883
01:42:27,228 --> 01:42:29,839
No. I can't see...
1884
01:42:30,666 --> 01:42:32,494
this organization
as really playing
1885
01:42:32,668 --> 01:42:33,886
a significant part.
1886
01:42:35,671 --> 01:42:37,760
If they did,
I would have known about it.
1887
01:42:39,022 --> 01:42:40,066
Alexander: He is lying.
1888
01:42:40,502 --> 01:42:41,633
All of South Africa
knew about SAIMR.
1889
01:42:42,199 --> 01:42:43,853
Everyone in the military field
knew about SAIMR.
1890
01:42:44,593 --> 01:42:45,855
The government knew about SAIMR.
1891
01:42:46,029 --> 01:42:47,161
That's why we were allowed
to operate
1892
01:42:47,335 --> 01:42:48,771
out of South African premises.
1893
01:42:50,642 --> 01:42:53,863
Mads: Were they taking orders
from South African military? Or?
1894
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:56,213
No. I think our orders,
our main orders,
1895
01:42:56,387 --> 01:42:57,649
came
from the British government.
1896
01:42:58,041 --> 01:42:59,825
- That's my opinion.
- Mads: The British government?
1897
01:43:00,043 --> 01:43:01,175
Yeah. Well...
1898
01:43:02,001 --> 01:43:05,222
From our British handlers,
controllers or whatever.
1899
01:43:06,745 --> 01:43:07,790
And...
1900
01:43:09,183 --> 01:43:11,794
to this day I still believe
that we were
1901
01:43:11,968 --> 01:43:13,839
a sub-unit of some British...
1902
01:43:15,276 --> 01:43:16,277
- Mads: Entity?
- ...entity.
1903
01:43:17,234 --> 01:43:19,802
Would you think
that's really true?
1904
01:43:29,420 --> 01:43:30,639
You know...
1905
01:43:32,989 --> 01:43:35,731
three days ago,
I met Alexander Jones.
1906
01:43:38,037 --> 01:43:39,648
He seemed very credible.
1907
01:43:42,477 --> 01:43:44,522
He doesn't offer
any documentation.
1908
01:43:46,176 --> 01:43:50,528
But he sure seems to be
a person who is in the know.
1909
01:43:53,096 --> 01:43:55,054
Let's put it this way...
1910
01:43:55,881 --> 01:43:58,101
for four years
after I left SAIMR,
1911
01:43:58,406 --> 01:44:01,060
they tried to recruit me back
every single month.
1912
01:44:01,496 --> 01:44:03,106
- Mads: Every month?
- Every month, Maxwell
1913
01:44:03,324 --> 01:44:06,196
would set up a meeting with me,
send somebody, stuff like that.
1914
01:44:06,370 --> 01:44:10,156
And, eventually it became
to the point of where...
1915
01:44:12,811 --> 01:44:15,858
they were indicating
of threatening my family.
1916
01:44:17,468 --> 01:44:19,644
And Maxwell... I went
to his offices one day in Alex,
1917
01:44:19,818 --> 01:44:21,385
and I threatened him.
I said to him straight,
1918
01:44:21,559 --> 01:44:22,734
"As much as you know people,
1919
01:44:23,300 --> 01:44:25,215
you've got to remember
I've also got my own team."
1920
01:44:25,781 --> 01:44:27,478
I said,
"You guys either back off,
1921
01:44:27,870 --> 01:44:29,437
or one of us are gonna die."
1922
01:44:31,047 --> 01:44:32,222
So...
1923
01:44:34,137 --> 01:44:35,921
it ended on bad terms,
in the sense of it,
1924
01:44:36,095 --> 01:44:37,749
because, I mean, I'd had enough.
I had a family.
1925
01:44:37,923 --> 01:44:39,751
Once I started my family
I wasn't single anymore.
1926
01:44:39,925 --> 01:44:40,970
It wasn't just me.
1927
01:44:41,666 --> 01:44:43,146
And I had to take
the responsibility.
1928
01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:45,061
So, you know what you do, you...
1929
01:44:46,541 --> 01:44:48,717
My view of thinking
is get rid of everything
1930
01:44:48,891 --> 01:44:50,632
that can incriminate you.
Or get...
1931
01:44:51,850 --> 01:44:54,113
Mads: So you destroyed
everything pointing towards you
1932
01:44:54,288 --> 01:44:57,203
- and SAIMR in having
a past together?
- Yeah. Yes.
1933
01:44:59,380 --> 01:45:01,338
Mads: But is it bad
for the story?
1934
01:45:05,037 --> 01:45:08,693
- "Is it bad for the story?"
- Mads: This story.
1935
01:45:08,998 --> 01:45:11,087
- Yes?
- Mads: Because...
1936
01:45:11,870 --> 01:45:13,263
it begins...
1937
01:45:14,438 --> 01:45:15,918
with Goran Bjorkdahl and I,
1938
01:45:16,135 --> 01:45:18,181
trying to solve
the mystery about
1939
01:45:18,355 --> 01:45:20,009
who killed Dag Hammarskjold.
1940
01:45:20,966 --> 01:45:22,490
- Clarinah: Okay.
- Mads: And...
1941
01:45:23,491 --> 01:45:25,014
then, suddenly...
1942
01:45:26,276 --> 01:45:30,019
it's something
entirely different.
1943
01:45:32,064 --> 01:45:36,286
But I was going to ask,
is the mystery solved?
1944
01:45:36,460 --> 01:45:39,985
Or, have you just switched
to something else now?
1945
01:45:40,159 --> 01:45:42,640
Or, you don't mind about...
1946
01:45:43,424 --> 01:45:47,341
what was supposed
to be solved in the first place?
1947
01:45:55,218 --> 01:45:56,393
So...
1948
01:45:57,394 --> 01:46:00,266
did the South African
Maritime Research Institute...
1949
01:46:01,572 --> 01:46:02,834
kill Dag Hammarskjold?
1950
01:46:06,403 --> 01:46:07,709
I won't say...
1951
01:46:08,536 --> 01:46:09,624
There was involvement.
1952
01:46:14,629 --> 01:46:16,935
Mads: What do you base
this theory on?
1953
01:46:19,024 --> 01:46:20,765
Alexander: There were photos
that I can recall
1954
01:46:20,939 --> 01:46:22,811
seeing in one of our meetings,
1955
01:46:22,985 --> 01:46:26,510
and it was what they used
as a recruitment tool.
1956
01:46:28,469 --> 01:46:29,687
There was...
1957
01:46:31,515 --> 01:46:32,777
one photo...
1958
01:46:33,648 --> 01:46:35,780
where you could see,
where all the trees were burnt.
1959
01:46:36,999 --> 01:46:39,784
Where there was a forest,
I assume it was a forest.
1960
01:46:40,132 --> 01:46:42,700
All the trees were burnt in it. You could see the ant hills...
1961
01:46:43,571 --> 01:46:48,140
stuff like that. There was
a photo of the guys
1962
01:46:48,924 --> 01:46:51,274
in their "fatigues"
1963
01:46:51,840 --> 01:46:55,017
standing on the ant hills
and that.
1964
01:46:55,365 --> 01:46:57,541
And then, there was the photo
of the plane on one side.
1965
01:46:58,542 --> 01:47:00,326
So we were given three photos.
1966
01:47:01,066 --> 01:47:02,807
Mads: What guys
were on the photo?
1967
01:47:03,025 --> 01:47:05,506
Maxwell was in the photo.
He was very young.
1968
01:47:06,463 --> 01:47:09,335
- Mads: Keith Maxwell?
- Yeah. He was definitely there.
1969
01:47:09,510 --> 01:47:10,467
Because that was...
1970
01:47:11,294 --> 01:47:12,991
I can still remember
the picture.
1971
01:47:13,209 --> 01:47:15,864
He was still wearing shorts,
long socks...
1972
01:47:17,213 --> 01:47:19,563
and combat boots.
1973
01:47:21,826 --> 01:47:23,437
With this camouflage hat.
1974
01:47:25,177 --> 01:47:26,701
There was two other guys.
1975
01:47:26,875 --> 01:47:29,138
One was
in full military fatigues.
1976
01:47:30,313 --> 01:47:32,750
And he had a beard.
1977
01:47:34,578 --> 01:47:37,929
Mads: Could the bearded guy
be the agent
1978
01:47:38,408 --> 01:47:41,193
code named "Congo Red"?
1979
01:47:42,368 --> 01:47:45,981
Yeah. I would say 80 percent.
1980
01:47:46,547 --> 01:47:48,636
Probably that would have been
Congo Red.
1981
01:47:48,853 --> 01:47:50,768
- Mads: That would be Congo Red?
- Yeah.
1982
01:47:51,465 --> 01:47:53,684
Did you already summarize?
1983
01:47:54,859 --> 01:47:56,208
The whole story?
1984
01:47:57,383 --> 01:47:58,559
- Mads: No.
- Not yet?
1985
01:47:58,907 --> 01:47:59,951
Mads: No.
1986
01:48:00,561 --> 01:48:03,128
Maybe I can get an idea
when you summarize it.
1987
01:48:03,564 --> 01:48:05,609
We do manage
to establish that...
1988
01:48:06,915 --> 01:48:08,394
SAIMR was very real.
1989
01:48:12,311 --> 01:48:13,356
But...
1990
01:48:17,055 --> 01:48:18,579
but still, you know...
1991
01:48:21,538 --> 01:48:24,236
It borders on fiction.
Some of it is real,
1992
01:48:24,498 --> 01:48:26,978
and some of it is very difficult
to prove.
1993
01:48:27,849 --> 01:48:30,982
Maxwell meets
with a South African journalist
1994
01:48:31,156 --> 01:48:32,549
- named De Wet Potgieter.
-Alexander: Yes.
1995
01:48:32,897 --> 01:48:34,943
Mads: And he gives him a lot
of SAIMR documents,
1996
01:48:35,509 --> 01:48:36,988
including a...
1997
01:48:37,772 --> 01:48:40,078
sort of memoir
written by Maxwell,
1998
01:48:40,557 --> 01:48:42,298
called, "The Story of My Life".
1999
01:48:42,690 --> 01:48:45,519
It's a fictionalized account
of Maxwell's life.
2000
01:48:46,084 --> 01:48:46,955
But...
2001
01:48:47,738 --> 01:48:50,741
the part he gave
De Wet Potgieter...
2002
01:48:51,655 --> 01:48:53,352
is not the full story.
2003
01:48:54,528 --> 01:48:58,488
The last part of the story
is to be found in the
2004
01:48:59,184 --> 01:49:01,578
possession
of Dagmar Feil's mother.
2005
01:49:04,842 --> 01:49:06,452
Okay, that I found very strange.
2006
01:49:11,501 --> 01:49:13,982
Did your mother get this
at one time only?
2007
01:49:14,199 --> 01:49:15,723
Yes. Yes.
2008
01:49:16,593 --> 01:49:19,727
I think just prior to this,
Lieutenant Maxwell,
2009
01:49:19,901 --> 01:49:22,164
or Commander Maxwell,
however he referred to himself.
2010
01:49:22,338 --> 01:49:24,470
I think at the point
where he was ready to leave,
2011
01:49:24,775 --> 01:49:27,343
he gave my mother
everything he had in hand,
2012
01:49:27,735 --> 01:49:30,520
to aid her and help her
to find the murderer.
2013
01:49:30,999 --> 01:49:33,828
Because why else would he have
done this?
2014
01:49:34,916 --> 01:49:36,831
Mads: I want to be sure that
this is actually Maxwell
2015
01:49:37,005 --> 01:49:38,136
writing these memoirs.
2016
01:49:38,484 --> 01:49:40,269
This is his handwriting, right?
2017
01:49:41,487 --> 01:49:43,315
Yeah, I know.
This is Maxwell's handwriting.
2018
01:49:47,885 --> 01:49:49,104
Would he have been doing the...
2019
01:49:49,844 --> 01:49:52,542
Because some of the pages have
been written on a typewriter,
2020
01:49:52,803 --> 01:49:56,459
- and some of them are in hand.
- Yeah, he had
one of those old...
2021
01:49:57,721 --> 01:49:59,114
typewriters
if you wanna call it.
2022
01:49:59,462 --> 01:50:00,419
So it's possible, yeah.
2023
01:50:02,291 --> 01:50:04,032
- Mads: Would he have done
the typing himself? -Alexander: Himself? Yes. Yeah
2024
01:50:04,206 --> 01:50:06,382
With stuff like that,
he would not...
2025
01:50:06,643 --> 01:50:07,949
- Mads: Would not use
a secretary?
- Alexander: He would not use
2026
01:50:08,340 --> 01:50:11,082
a secretary. He wouldn't have even use his wife.
2027
01:50:13,041 --> 01:50:16,479
One thing I can say, if we were
having talks about SAIMR,
2028
01:50:16,827 --> 01:50:19,395
and his wife came into the room,
wherever we were or whatever,
2029
01:50:19,569 --> 01:50:20,657
he would tell her to leave.
2030
01:50:21,049 --> 01:50:23,051
Karl: It seems quite bizarre.
2031
01:50:23,312 --> 01:50:25,270
It almost looks like
the rantings of a person
2032
01:50:25,444 --> 01:50:26,532
who is losing his mind.
2033
01:50:27,098 --> 01:50:29,710
Mads: Why would he write
a fictionalized account
2034
01:50:29,884 --> 01:50:30,972
of his life?
2035
01:50:34,845 --> 01:50:36,934
You know, at the end
of his life, he had lost it.
2036
01:50:37,587 --> 01:50:39,850
- Mads: He had gone mad?
- So, only he would know.
2037
01:50:41,939 --> 01:50:43,419
Mads: In the part
of the manuscript
2038
01:50:43,593 --> 01:50:45,073
of Keith Maxwell's memoir
2039
01:50:45,247 --> 01:50:47,423
that was given
to Dagmar Feil's mother,
2040
01:50:47,684 --> 01:50:51,035
he provides the context for the Operation Celeste papers,
2041
01:50:51,601 --> 01:50:55,910
which suggests that Maxwell knew about Operation Celeste,
2042
01:50:56,084 --> 01:50:57,563
the plan
to kill Dag Hammarskjold,
2043
01:50:57,999 --> 01:50:59,565
before the papers ended up
2044
01:51:00,392 --> 01:51:03,874
in the hands of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in 1998.
2045
01:51:04,919 --> 01:51:07,748
Has everybody got a copy
of these secret documents
2046
01:51:07,965 --> 01:51:09,837
from the Institute
of Maritime Research?
2047
01:51:11,099 --> 01:51:12,448
Mads: This part
of the manuscript
2048
01:51:12,796 --> 01:51:13,971
is handwritten.
2049
01:51:14,755 --> 01:51:18,149
Maxwell writes about how the men of the Marine Institute
2050
01:51:18,367 --> 01:51:20,586
have "plans for Dag".
2051
01:51:22,327 --> 01:51:24,025
In the manuscript,
Commodore Wagman
2052
01:51:24,199 --> 01:51:25,809
chairs a brainstorming session
2053
01:51:25,983 --> 01:51:28,769
about ways to kill
the General Secretary
2054
01:51:28,943 --> 01:51:30,379
when he comes to the Congo.
2055
01:51:30,945 --> 01:51:33,469
One of the officers suggests
poisoning Dag Hammarskjold
2056
01:51:33,643 --> 01:51:35,427
with potassium cyanide,
2057
01:51:35,993 --> 01:51:38,474
much to the displeasure
of Wagman.
2058
01:51:39,170 --> 01:51:42,565
The agent known as Congo Red
is present at the meeting,
2059
01:51:42,739 --> 01:51:44,915
and is just about to open
his mouth
2060
01:51:45,263 --> 01:51:48,092
when Commodore Wagman says,
"No! No!
2061
01:51:48,310 --> 01:51:51,617
I don't want hours of discussion about possible methods.
2062
01:51:52,009 --> 01:51:55,317
I want a workable plan with at least three alternatives
2063
01:51:55,883 --> 01:51:58,276
on my desk within seven days."
2064
01:51:59,147 --> 01:52:01,018
Option one was the bomb,
2065
01:52:01,497 --> 01:52:03,673
to disable the plane,
to bring it down.
2066
01:52:05,283 --> 01:52:07,285
That would have been
choice number one.
2067
01:52:07,721 --> 01:52:09,374
So that the plane crashes.
2068
01:52:10,506 --> 01:52:13,857
Number two, have the fighter jet
around as a contingency,
2069
01:52:14,031 --> 01:52:15,598
in the case that the bomb
didn't do the damage
2070
01:52:15,772 --> 01:52:18,122
that it did in the plan. Then,
shoot the plane down.
2071
01:52:18,688 --> 01:52:20,037
Number three,
have the contingency
2072
01:52:20,211 --> 01:52:21,865
shooting from the ground
to bring the plane down,
2073
01:52:22,039 --> 01:52:23,345
and clean up.
2074
01:52:27,610 --> 01:52:30,308
Mads: There is a picture
of Dag Hammarskjold and...
2075
01:52:31,353 --> 01:52:32,789
in the picture
of Dag Hammarskjold,
2076
01:52:33,137 --> 01:52:35,096
there is a playing card
tucked in his shirt collar.
2077
01:52:35,270 --> 01:52:37,446
- Yes, there is an ace.
- Mads: Yes.
2078
01:52:37,620 --> 01:52:39,361
- Yes, there's an ace.
- Mads: The ace of spades?
2079
01:52:39,535 --> 01:52:41,145
The ace of spades. And that was
well know
2080
01:52:41,319 --> 01:52:43,278
in security circles.
2081
01:52:43,452 --> 01:52:45,149
That was the way
that the CIA operated.
2082
01:52:45,323 --> 01:52:47,151
That was a CIA card.
2083
01:52:47,673 --> 01:52:50,024
And that's why I say
the CIA was involved.
2084
01:52:50,415 --> 01:52:51,982
Mads: So, that is a calling card
from the CIA?
2085
01:52:52,156 --> 01:52:53,549
That is a calling card
from the CIA.
2086
01:52:54,115 --> 01:52:55,943
Mads: Did you encounter
the ace of spades
2087
01:52:56,160 --> 01:52:58,467
being used later on
in your own career in SAIMR?
2088
01:52:58,859 --> 01:53:00,948
In SAIMR, yes. Once or twice.
2089
01:53:01,949 --> 01:53:05,039
Up in the DRC itself.
2090
01:53:06,692 --> 01:53:09,217
Mads: And That was also
because of CIA involvement?
2091
01:53:09,434 --> 01:53:11,132
Because of CIA involvement.
2092
01:53:12,568 --> 01:53:14,309
And I would even go...
2093
01:53:15,310 --> 01:53:16,354
and...
2094
01:53:17,312 --> 01:53:18,400
Can you switch off?
2095
01:53:21,882 --> 01:53:25,494
Mads: Next, Maxwell writes about
how a SAIMR operative
2096
01:53:25,755 --> 01:53:28,714
plants a bomb in the wheel bay of Dag Hammarskjold's plane.
2097
01:53:29,498 --> 01:53:31,630
Then follows
an emergency meeting
2098
01:53:31,892 --> 01:53:33,937
in SAIMR's situation room
2099
01:53:34,242 --> 01:53:38,724
at two o'clock in the morning on the 18th of September 1961.
2100
01:53:39,508 --> 01:53:42,032
An operative has phoned to say that the bomb
2101
01:53:42,206 --> 01:53:44,208
did not explode at takeoff.
2102
01:53:45,470 --> 01:53:48,909
Commodore Wagman says,
"Gentlemen. It's 2:30.
2103
01:53:49,170 --> 01:53:50,432
Go home and get some sleep.
2104
01:53:50,867 --> 01:53:53,087
We'll work something out
in the morning."
2105
01:53:57,091 --> 01:54:00,485
Mads: So, in Maxwell's memoir,
we have a "Commodore Wagman",
2106
01:54:00,659 --> 01:54:04,402
who seems to be the same person as Commodore Wagner,
2107
01:54:04,707 --> 01:54:07,362
who signs off on the Operations Celeste papers.
2108
01:54:09,320 --> 01:54:12,497
But, then we showed Groenewald
these documents...
2109
01:54:13,020 --> 01:54:14,717
and he was totally dismissive
of them.
2110
01:54:15,109 --> 01:54:17,415
He said you would never put
something like that on paper.
2111
01:54:17,633 --> 01:54:19,591
He said
it's very unprofessional.
2112
01:54:20,244 --> 01:54:21,463
It's not professional.
2113
01:54:22,116 --> 01:54:23,291
Not professional at all.
2114
01:54:27,034 --> 01:54:29,514
I disagree, because a lot
of our stuff went on paper.
2115
01:54:29,819 --> 01:54:31,168
I disagree.
2116
01:54:32,213 --> 01:54:33,867
Mads: So it would be normal
for SAIMR
2117
01:54:34,041 --> 01:54:35,477
to put things like this
on paper?
2118
01:54:35,694 --> 01:54:37,261
To the relevant people, yes.
2119
01:54:37,914 --> 01:54:39,307
The purpose being?
2120
01:54:40,961 --> 01:54:45,139
For confirmation purposes,
to say that there is backing,
2121
01:54:45,313 --> 01:54:48,664
you know there is an approval,
that it's sanctioned.
2122
01:54:48,969 --> 01:54:51,362
Mads: So SAIMR had, in fact,
its own bureaucracy?
2123
01:54:51,580 --> 01:54:52,668
Yes, definitely.
2124
01:54:53,364 --> 01:54:56,585
Very. And they were very strict
and particular about it.
2125
01:54:57,194 --> 01:54:59,283
For example,
let's go back a few steps.
2126
01:54:59,631 --> 01:55:02,417
When we saw Commodore Wagner...
2127
01:55:03,679 --> 01:55:05,202
etiquette is,
you were not allowed
2128
01:55:05,420 --> 01:55:06,290
to approach him.
2129
01:55:06,638 --> 01:55:07,770
Mads: You met Wagner?
2130
01:55:07,988 --> 01:55:09,293
Not personally,
but I remember him being
2131
01:55:09,467 --> 01:55:10,425
at one of the meetings.
2132
01:55:10,904 --> 01:55:11,948
- Mads: You saw him?
- Yes.
2133
01:55:12,122 --> 01:55:13,123
Mads: What did he look like?
2134
01:55:13,689 --> 01:55:15,821
He was an old, frail man
at that point in time.
2135
01:55:16,474 --> 01:55:18,912
Mads: Because for us,
it is totally impossible
2136
01:55:19,086 --> 01:55:20,783
to find anything about him.
2137
01:55:21,262 --> 01:55:23,699
Look, I know he was
a businessman. Definitely.
2138
01:55:23,960 --> 01:55:26,615
- Mads: What kind of business?
- If I remember it correctly,
2139
01:55:26,789 --> 01:55:28,660
it was something
to do in the medical field.
2140
01:55:30,184 --> 01:55:31,707
Mads: Then, a knock on the door.
2141
01:55:35,885 --> 01:55:38,540
Mads: A lieutenant enters,
salutes the Commodore,
2142
01:55:38,844 --> 01:55:40,498
and hands him a slip of paper.
2143
01:55:41,369 --> 01:55:42,718
"What is this?
2144
01:55:43,414 --> 01:55:45,939
"Oh my God, it worked,"
Wagman said,
2145
01:55:46,330 --> 01:55:48,376
and waved the message
at the others.
2146
01:55:48,854 --> 01:55:51,727
"She blew on approach
to Ndola at around midnight.
2147
01:55:52,249 --> 01:55:54,773
It worked, by God, it worked."
2148
01:55:55,339 --> 01:55:56,950
There were smiles all around.
2149
01:55:57,820 --> 01:55:59,517
Congo Red had delivered.
2150
01:56:01,780 --> 01:56:05,523
Mads: In the last part
of Maxwell's memoirs,
2151
01:56:05,915 --> 01:56:09,136
he writes about going to visit
2152
01:56:09,919 --> 01:56:12,835
the archives of SAIMR...
2153
01:56:14,402 --> 01:56:17,448
which are,
according to Maxwell's script
2154
01:56:17,622 --> 01:56:20,974
located in a shopping mall
in Randburg.
2155
01:56:23,759 --> 01:56:26,892
And there, an antiques shop
is to be found,
2156
01:56:27,110 --> 01:56:29,591
managed by a man
named Mr. Hadley.
2157
01:56:31,767 --> 01:56:32,898
You know anyone
named Mr. Hadley,
2158
01:56:33,073 --> 01:56:34,291
having an antiques shop?
2159
01:56:35,075 --> 01:56:37,251
- No.
- Mads: He enters the shop,
2160
01:56:37,686 --> 01:56:41,995
and in the back room,
there is a...
2161
01:56:43,822 --> 01:56:45,041
a filing cabinet,
2162
01:56:45,563 --> 01:56:48,262
containing what Maxwell calls
"The Travelogue".
2163
01:56:48,697 --> 01:56:51,787
It's all the microfilms
and pictures from...
2164
01:56:52,483 --> 01:56:54,877
SAIMR operations
in foreign countries...
2165
01:56:55,965 --> 01:56:58,837
from I think, '52 to '84.
2166
01:57:00,361 --> 01:57:01,753
But he seems
to be especially concerned
2167
01:57:02,015 --> 01:57:04,017
- about year 1961.
- '61.
2168
01:57:20,120 --> 01:57:22,644
Mads: He takes all of this material with him,
2169
01:57:23,384 --> 01:57:26,343
and goes back to himself
and burns it,
2170
01:57:26,604 --> 01:57:30,347
destroys all the pictures,
all the microfilm.
2171
01:57:31,174 --> 01:57:33,394
Alexander: But that sounds something what Maxwell would do.
2172
01:57:34,786 --> 01:57:36,527
That is something
that he would do.
2173
01:57:51,107 --> 01:57:55,024
Alexander: Anybody that resisted
any white form of...
2174
01:57:59,376 --> 01:58:01,291
manipulation
on the African continent,
2175
01:58:01,683 --> 01:58:05,034
SAIMR was prepared to go
and quell those for a price.
2176
01:58:06,079 --> 01:58:07,297
At a cost.
2177
01:58:07,906 --> 01:58:09,256
And that was one thing
that Dag Hammarskjold
2178
01:58:09,430 --> 01:58:10,866
was totally against.
2179
01:58:11,432 --> 01:58:15,784
And he wanted every country for the people of the country.
2180
01:58:17,307 --> 01:58:18,787
And obviously,
when you've got investments,
2181
01:58:18,961 --> 01:58:21,181
when there's minerals, gold,
diamonds, oil
2182
01:58:21,355 --> 01:58:22,486
and all of that stuff...
2183
01:58:23,052 --> 01:58:24,749
and we all know
which countries...
2184
01:58:25,533 --> 01:58:26,447
He was a threat.
2185
01:58:27,970 --> 01:58:30,538
We countered effectively efforts
from all sides
2186
01:58:30,755 --> 01:58:32,714
to make the Congo
a happy hunting ground
2187
01:58:32,931 --> 01:58:34,107
for national interests.
2188
01:58:35,847 --> 01:58:37,762
To be a roadblock
to such efforts
2189
01:58:38,285 --> 01:58:40,287
is to make yourself
the target of attacks
2190
01:58:41,026 --> 01:58:43,942
from all those
who find their plans thwarted.
2191
01:58:44,421 --> 01:58:47,250
He was killed because he was
going to change the way that
2192
01:58:47,816 --> 01:58:50,949
Africa dealt with the rest
of the world financially.
2193
01:58:52,299 --> 01:58:53,604
And he was a threat.
2194
01:59:00,220 --> 01:59:02,570
And who's got the most to lose? Corporate.
2195
01:59:03,397 --> 01:59:05,138
Corporate business worldwide.
2196
01:59:07,009 --> 01:59:08,228
People are greedy.
2197
01:59:08,576 --> 01:59:10,360
People want
what others have got,
2198
01:59:10,752 --> 01:59:12,580
and they don't want
to pay for it.
2199
01:59:14,669 --> 01:59:16,366
That's why they come to Africa.
2200
01:59:17,585 --> 01:59:20,196
Because Africa seem to be easy
and third world.
2201
01:59:22,067 --> 01:59:24,157
And now, Africa is starting
to fight back.
2202
01:59:25,636 --> 01:59:27,464
And I think
it would have happened
2203
01:59:27,856 --> 01:59:31,120
30 ago, 40 years ago,
if Dag Hammarskjold had his way.
2204
01:59:32,948 --> 01:59:34,167
Africa would have been
a completely
2205
01:59:34,341 --> 01:59:35,907
different continent today...
2206
01:59:38,040 --> 01:59:39,520
if Dag Hammarskjold was allowed
to live
2207
01:59:40,303 --> 01:59:42,262
and follow through
on his mandate.
2208
02:00:13,467 --> 02:00:15,120
- So...
- Yes?
2209
02:00:16,034 --> 02:00:18,733
The last narration is about...
2210
02:00:19,516 --> 02:00:20,517
"Goran Bjorkdahl...
2211
02:00:24,652 --> 02:00:26,131
will continue his work.
2212
02:00:33,922 --> 02:00:37,491
Last I heard of him,
he had gone up the Congo River."
2213
02:00:39,710 --> 02:00:43,540
Clarinah: "Last I heard of him,
he had gone up the Congo River,
2214
02:00:43,975 --> 02:00:47,327
looking for Maxwell's secret
jungle laboratory."
2215
02:00:48,676 --> 02:00:49,677
Mads: Perfect.
161316
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.