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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:01:10,670 --> 00:01:12,471 Hey, let me get those. 2 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:13,572 It's okay. 3 00:01:13,573 --> 00:01:15,039 No, it's cool, I got it. 4 00:01:15,209 --> 00:01:16,307 Thanks. 5 00:01:16,310 --> 00:01:18,743 Yeah, thank you. 6 00:01:19,513 --> 00:01:23,048 So, uh, you girls at the University? 7 00:01:23,484 --> 00:01:24,615 Yeah. 8 00:01:24,617 --> 00:01:26,451 Most of the people in here are. 9 00:01:26,454 --> 00:01:29,454 You're kinda outta the usual age range, no? 10 00:01:29,456 --> 00:01:32,790 Yeah, well, uh, I'm not a student. 11 00:01:32,926 --> 00:01:35,927 You don't say? 12 00:01:36,430 --> 00:01:38,362 I did go to university, 13 00:01:38,566 --> 00:01:40,399 in Washington, in the late '60s. 14 00:01:40,401 --> 00:01:43,769 Washington? What are you doing out here? 15 00:01:44,037 --> 00:01:45,304 Traveling. 16 00:01:46,039 --> 00:01:49,108 So, uh, you girls in a sorority? 17 00:01:49,676 --> 00:01:50,442 Yeah. 18 00:01:50,444 --> 00:01:51,810 Which one? 19 00:01:52,012 --> 00:01:53,412 Why do you wanna know? 20 00:01:53,514 --> 00:01:55,280 Just making conversation. 21 00:01:55,281 --> 00:01:56,981 We're in Chi Omega. 22 00:01:58,551 --> 00:02:00,018 Nice. 23 00:02:00,186 --> 00:02:02,820 Listen, we were just heading home. 24 00:02:02,822 --> 00:02:04,022 We were? 25 00:02:05,859 --> 00:02:08,693 Uh, it was nice to meet you. 26 00:02:08,862 --> 00:02:10,262 You girls won't stick around? 27 00:02:10,264 --> 00:02:11,497 I'm buying. 28 00:02:11,498 --> 00:02:13,564 No, that's fine. 29 00:02:13,567 --> 00:02:14,866 Thanks again. 30 00:05:13,713 --> 00:05:15,514 Margaret? 31 00:05:16,750 --> 00:05:18,582 Lisa? 32 00:07:08,262 --> 00:07:10,928 So, what have we got? 33 00:07:11,031 --> 00:07:12,129 Female. 34 00:07:12,132 --> 00:07:14,432 I'd say she's about 16 or 17. 35 00:07:14,867 --> 00:07:16,033 Christ. 36 00:07:26,279 --> 00:07:29,113 Ligature marks around the throat, 37 00:07:30,149 --> 00:07:33,185 no defensive wounds on the hands, 38 00:07:33,887 --> 00:07:36,588 maybe she was taken by surprise. 39 00:07:36,590 --> 00:07:39,557 Perhaps approached from behind. 40 00:07:39,725 --> 00:07:42,627 She's been in the water for a while. 41 00:08:05,552 --> 00:08:06,918 Hey. 42 00:08:06,987 --> 00:08:08,653 Hey, honey. 43 00:08:15,028 --> 00:08:16,495 Oh. 44 00:08:17,865 --> 00:08:19,531 Tough day, huh? 45 00:08:19,533 --> 00:08:21,266 You could say that. 46 00:08:21,901 --> 00:08:22,634 Deb home? 47 00:08:22,636 --> 00:08:24,569 Yeah, she's upstairs. 48 00:08:24,571 --> 00:08:28,173 Tell her dinner will be ready in half hour. 49 00:08:38,985 --> 00:08:40,184 Yeah? 50 00:08:43,524 --> 00:08:44,755 Hey, Dad. 51 00:08:45,692 --> 00:08:48,058 Hey, how was school today? 52 00:08:48,261 --> 00:08:49,594 Ah, you know, the usual. 53 00:08:49,596 --> 00:08:51,897 A main course of government propaganda 54 00:08:51,899 --> 00:08:53,197 with a side of condescension. 55 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,735 You don't say things like that to your teachers, do you? 56 00:08:56,970 --> 00:08:57,936 No. 57 00:08:57,937 --> 00:09:00,337 I toe the line like a good girl. 58 00:09:00,340 --> 00:09:02,506 Thank you. 59 00:09:12,219 --> 00:09:13,518 You okay, Dad? 60 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,020 Um, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. 61 00:09:16,023 --> 00:09:19,423 Your mother said dinner will be ready in half hour. 62 00:09:19,426 --> 00:09:21,458 Cool, thanks. 63 00:09:32,940 --> 00:09:34,338 Mm, that's nice. 64 00:09:34,341 --> 00:09:36,240 It's so good. 65 00:09:37,644 --> 00:09:38,375 Water? 66 00:09:38,378 --> 00:09:39,443 - Mm. - Did you make this 67 00:09:39,446 --> 00:09:40,477 from the box again? 68 00:09:41,380 --> 00:09:42,813 - How did you know? - 'Cause it's really good. 69 00:09:42,816 --> 00:09:43,682 Cheeky. 70 00:09:43,683 --> 00:09:45,049 And it's better than your other one. 71 00:09:45,052 --> 00:09:46,484 - Don't be so cheeky. - Better than my other one? 72 00:09:46,485 --> 00:09:47,118 Mm-hmm. 73 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:48,519 I don't know. 74 00:09:51,991 --> 00:09:53,024 So... 75 00:09:53,025 --> 00:09:54,259 Mm-hmm? 76 00:09:54,260 --> 00:09:55,693 What's happened today? 77 00:09:55,696 --> 00:09:59,798 Well, you've got a funny story about Mrs. Appleby, 78 00:09:59,799 --> 00:10:00,532 don't you? 79 00:10:01,434 --> 00:10:03,802 I think she stole the other neighbor's baby. 80 00:10:03,803 --> 00:10:04,702 What? 81 00:10:04,705 --> 00:10:08,072 Yeah, 'cause I heard crying coming from her house. 82 00:10:08,942 --> 00:10:11,142 Maybe it was her granddaughter. 83 00:10:16,115 --> 00:10:16,981 Hello? 84 00:10:16,984 --> 00:10:18,950 It's Tom, sorry to bother you at home, 85 00:10:18,951 --> 00:10:21,186 but you need to hear this. 86 00:10:21,187 --> 00:10:22,120 What is it? 87 00:10:22,121 --> 00:10:23,754 We found three more. 88 00:10:23,756 --> 00:10:24,923 Three more? 89 00:10:24,924 --> 00:10:25,923 Bodies. 90 00:10:25,926 --> 00:10:28,393 In the Green River. 91 00:11:03,697 --> 00:11:05,029 The ligature marks to the neck 92 00:11:05,032 --> 00:11:07,365 are consistent with an approach from behind. 93 00:11:07,366 --> 00:11:09,701 All the victims share the same features, 94 00:11:09,702 --> 00:11:10,769 the ligature marks, 95 00:11:10,770 --> 00:11:13,337 no defensive wounds to the hands or arms, 96 00:11:13,340 --> 00:11:15,706 all had recently had sex. 97 00:11:15,875 --> 00:11:18,076 Both the missing women worked as prostitutes. 98 00:11:18,077 --> 00:11:21,145 They were last seen at the SeaTac strip, near the airport. 99 00:11:21,148 --> 00:11:25,182 Looks like we have a serial killer on our hands. 100 00:11:26,186 --> 00:11:28,219 This isn't random opportunism. 101 00:11:28,221 --> 00:11:30,654 If all the victims share the same profession, 102 00:11:30,657 --> 00:11:32,624 the killer's cruising prostitutes. 103 00:11:32,625 --> 00:11:34,459 These women came with him willingly. 104 00:11:34,461 --> 00:11:36,827 He may well be a regular down on the strip. 105 00:11:36,830 --> 00:11:38,797 Considering the lack of defensive marks 106 00:11:38,798 --> 00:11:40,764 and recent sexual activity, 107 00:11:40,767 --> 00:11:43,134 the women could've been killed post-coitus, 108 00:11:43,135 --> 00:11:45,602 or even mid-coitus. 109 00:11:45,605 --> 00:11:48,639 Clear signs of sexual motivation. 110 00:11:49,576 --> 00:11:51,609 We've had calls from the press. 111 00:11:51,610 --> 00:11:53,211 This is gonna be big news. 112 00:11:53,212 --> 00:11:55,379 You wanna handle the briefing? 113 00:11:55,849 --> 00:11:57,048 Sure. 114 00:11:59,985 --> 00:12:01,852 Have you put any surveillance 115 00:12:01,855 --> 00:12:03,654 on the SeaTac strip? 116 00:12:04,557 --> 00:12:06,857 No, not at this stage. 117 00:12:06,860 --> 00:12:10,695 How many officers have you put onto the task force? 118 00:12:10,697 --> 00:12:14,698 Um, that number I cannot tell you right now. 119 00:12:15,634 --> 00:12:16,900 We'll get back to you on that. 120 00:12:16,903 --> 00:12:20,672 How much is this going to cost the taxpayer? 121 00:12:20,673 --> 00:12:22,407 I can't answer that. 122 00:12:22,408 --> 00:12:23,107 Next. 123 00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:25,744 Is there any truth to the rumor 124 00:12:25,745 --> 00:12:28,212 that the police are not taking this seriously 125 00:12:28,215 --> 00:12:30,081 because it involves prostitutes? 126 00:12:30,082 --> 00:12:33,118 No, there is no truth in that. 127 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:33,918 Anyone else? 128 00:12:33,919 --> 00:12:36,754 Well, do you have any suspects? 129 00:12:41,293 --> 00:12:43,794 No, no, no. 130 00:12:46,265 --> 00:12:47,599 Are we done? 131 00:12:49,001 --> 00:12:50,501 Thank you for coming. 132 00:12:50,504 --> 00:12:51,269 Thank you. 133 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:07,951 Yeah. 134 00:13:10,157 --> 00:13:11,956 Detective Richards? 135 00:13:12,958 --> 00:13:13,658 Yes. 136 00:13:13,659 --> 00:13:14,525 I'm Bob Keller, 137 00:13:14,528 --> 00:13:17,361 I work with the FBI Behavioral Science Unit. 138 00:13:17,663 --> 00:13:18,897 Come in. 139 00:13:28,575 --> 00:13:32,543 So, what brings you to Green River? 140 00:13:33,980 --> 00:13:35,547 I saw the press conference. 141 00:13:35,548 --> 00:13:37,048 I thought maybe I could help. 142 00:13:37,049 --> 00:13:40,118 You gonna help me improve my public relations skills? 143 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,253 You know what we do at the Behavioral Science Unit, 144 00:13:42,254 --> 00:13:43,855 Detective Richards? 145 00:13:43,956 --> 00:13:45,990 I'm vaguely familiar. 146 00:13:47,293 --> 00:13:48,826 Call me David. 147 00:13:49,162 --> 00:13:50,294 Okay, David. 148 00:13:50,297 --> 00:13:52,996 We develop and provide programs of training, 149 00:13:52,999 --> 00:13:54,097 research, and consultation 150 00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:55,700 in the behavioral and social sciences 151 00:13:55,701 --> 00:13:58,669 for the FBI and law enforcement community. 152 00:13:58,672 --> 00:14:00,804 If you don't catch this killer quick, 153 00:14:00,807 --> 00:14:04,042 dealing with the press isn't gonna get any easier. 154 00:14:04,043 --> 00:14:05,710 Well, I've set up a task force, 155 00:14:05,711 --> 00:14:09,147 led by myself and Detective Tom Johnson. 156 00:14:09,149 --> 00:14:11,582 We've had confirmation all of the victims 157 00:14:11,585 --> 00:14:15,052 frequented an area known for prostitution. 158 00:14:15,322 --> 00:14:17,654 It's likely the killer is a regular visitor there, 159 00:14:17,657 --> 00:14:21,292 so we're staking it out, as well as the Green River itself. 160 00:14:21,293 --> 00:14:24,394 But it may make it easier to identify the killer's habits 161 00:14:24,397 --> 00:14:27,231 if we formed a psychological profile. 162 00:14:27,234 --> 00:14:29,801 And that's something I can help you with. 163 00:14:32,438 --> 00:14:33,605 Sure. 164 00:14:39,678 --> 00:14:41,178 Have you ever had any direct experience 165 00:14:41,181 --> 00:14:42,447 with a serial killer, 166 00:14:42,448 --> 00:14:45,383 beyond just consulting on the case files? 167 00:14:45,719 --> 00:14:46,517 I have. 168 00:14:46,519 --> 00:14:49,586 Back in '74, I was a rookie detective in King County. 169 00:14:49,588 --> 00:14:53,658 Two girls disappeared from Lake Sammamish State Park 170 00:14:53,659 --> 00:14:55,125 and several of us were assigned 171 00:14:55,128 --> 00:14:57,061 to assist the Issaquah Police. 172 00:14:57,062 --> 00:14:59,264 I became part of a task force. 173 00:14:59,265 --> 00:15:00,298 We identified Ted Bundy 174 00:15:00,299 --> 00:15:03,000 as the main suspect in the murders. 175 00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:05,669 You came face to face with him? 176 00:15:05,672 --> 00:15:06,471 Yeah, 177 00:15:06,472 --> 00:15:08,206 I sat in on one of his first interviews 178 00:15:08,207 --> 00:15:09,774 after he was arrested. 179 00:15:11,144 --> 00:15:12,744 What was he like? 180 00:15:13,178 --> 00:15:18,283 On the surface, very articulate, always polite. 181 00:15:18,350 --> 00:15:21,885 In many ways, he reminded me of a politician. 182 00:15:21,888 --> 00:15:22,820 Smart appearance 183 00:15:22,822 --> 00:15:25,490 and he knew how to dance around the tough questions 184 00:15:25,491 --> 00:15:28,692 and divert the conversation towards his own agenda. 185 00:15:28,695 --> 00:15:30,528 But you saw through it? 186 00:15:30,529 --> 00:15:34,365 I realized I had a nose for this kind of thing. 187 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,302 I knew the moment he sat down in that interview room, 188 00:15:38,304 --> 00:15:41,306 he was wearing a mask of sanity. 189 00:15:42,341 --> 00:15:44,975 I saw the truth behind those eyes. 190 00:15:44,977 --> 00:15:47,544 He's on death row now, right? 191 00:15:49,415 --> 00:15:50,213 Yeah. 192 00:15:50,216 --> 00:15:51,649 Actually, I've interviewed him several times 193 00:15:51,650 --> 00:15:52,951 since he was convicted. 194 00:15:52,952 --> 00:15:54,985 There are lots of murders he hasn't confessed to 195 00:15:54,988 --> 00:15:57,822 and bodies which we never recovered. 196 00:15:57,890 --> 00:15:59,957 I think he will only give up the information 197 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:02,559 if he can get something out of it, 198 00:16:02,562 --> 00:16:04,895 like a reprieve from execution. 199 00:16:04,998 --> 00:16:09,667 Ironically, for a man who dealt out so much death to others, 200 00:16:09,668 --> 00:16:11,068 he fears dying. 201 00:16:11,604 --> 00:16:15,539 So, what are your thoughts on this one, Bob? 202 00:16:15,542 --> 00:16:18,176 Can you help us build a profile? 203 00:16:20,346 --> 00:16:21,879 I'd say so. 204 00:16:25,284 --> 00:16:27,351 Obviously, the first determination 205 00:16:27,354 --> 00:16:28,418 is that these murders 206 00:16:28,421 --> 00:16:31,855 were very likely the work of one person. 207 00:16:32,091 --> 00:16:35,592 The same modus operandi was employed in each death, 208 00:16:35,595 --> 00:16:36,927 and body clusters often suggest 209 00:16:36,929 --> 00:16:39,998 that one individual is responsible. 210 00:16:40,299 --> 00:16:42,866 He has familiarity with the Green River 211 00:16:42,869 --> 00:16:44,735 and surrounding area. 212 00:16:44,738 --> 00:16:46,671 This suggests a local man. 213 00:16:46,673 --> 00:16:49,740 He was likely raised in a family with marital discord 214 00:16:49,743 --> 00:16:51,875 and physically and emotionally abused. 215 00:16:51,878 --> 00:16:55,212 Possibly even strict religious or puritanical morals 216 00:16:55,215 --> 00:16:57,948 imposed by one or both parents. 217 00:16:58,618 --> 00:17:03,587 I'd say he's currently between his mid-20s and mid-30s. 218 00:17:03,956 --> 00:17:06,124 Given that all the victims so far 219 00:17:06,125 --> 00:17:07,791 have worked in prostitution, 220 00:17:07,794 --> 00:17:09,059 we can assume that the killer 221 00:17:09,061 --> 00:17:11,762 has frequented the red light district for sexual encounters 222 00:17:11,765 --> 00:17:14,766 which didn't always end in murder. 223 00:17:14,768 --> 00:17:18,970 However, there will likely be self-loathing 224 00:17:18,971 --> 00:17:20,570 as a result of these encounters, 225 00:17:20,573 --> 00:17:24,142 and it may trigger his deep-seated hatred of women. 226 00:17:24,144 --> 00:17:27,545 Murderers who strangle often speak of an intimate connection 227 00:17:27,547 --> 00:17:30,615 they feel with the victim as they die. 228 00:17:30,817 --> 00:17:31,982 It's twisted to you and I, 229 00:17:31,984 --> 00:17:34,885 but this man may feel at his most alive 230 00:17:34,887 --> 00:17:36,788 when he's causing death. 231 00:17:36,789 --> 00:17:39,957 That's why I know he'll strike again. 232 00:17:39,959 --> 00:17:43,193 Every day, he deals with the scars of childhood, 233 00:17:43,195 --> 00:17:47,597 poor relationships, and a generally unremarkable life. 234 00:17:47,599 --> 00:17:49,666 That buzz he gets from killing, 235 00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:53,770 he'll seek it out at every opportunity available to him. 236 00:18:22,301 --> 00:18:25,803 Strangulation, same as the others. 237 00:18:25,805 --> 00:18:27,672 How old is she? 238 00:18:27,740 --> 00:18:29,973 I'd say she's in her 30s. 239 00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:31,642 They've all varied in age. 240 00:18:31,644 --> 00:18:35,645 It's clear that isn't a factor when selecting victims. 241 00:18:36,015 --> 00:18:38,648 I bet this one works the strip too. 242 00:18:38,817 --> 00:18:40,550 She's been posed very deliberately. 243 00:18:40,552 --> 00:18:44,188 There's fish and a wine bottle entwined with her body. 244 00:18:44,190 --> 00:18:45,923 They weren't placed by accident. 245 00:18:45,924 --> 00:18:48,226 He didn't do that with any of the other victims. 246 00:18:48,228 --> 00:18:50,193 Could be some kind of religious motive? 247 00:18:50,195 --> 00:18:52,497 That ties in with the strict religious parents 248 00:18:52,499 --> 00:18:54,731 you mentioned in the briefing, Bob. 249 00:18:54,733 --> 00:18:55,732 Could be, 250 00:18:55,734 --> 00:18:57,501 could also be game-playing. 251 00:18:57,636 --> 00:18:58,536 How do you mean? 252 00:18:58,538 --> 00:19:00,704 He watches the news like everybody else, 253 00:19:00,707 --> 00:19:02,006 he could be sending us a message 254 00:19:02,008 --> 00:19:05,375 or having a personal joke on our expense. 255 00:19:05,377 --> 00:19:07,912 She was stripped naked like the others, 256 00:19:07,913 --> 00:19:08,913 but they found her dress 257 00:19:08,914 --> 00:19:10,780 just a few yards down the riverbank. 258 00:19:10,782 --> 00:19:12,682 We bagged it and took it in. 259 00:19:12,684 --> 00:19:15,118 No sign of any other items so far. 260 00:19:15,221 --> 00:19:17,255 Is he getting sloppy? 261 00:19:17,257 --> 00:19:18,489 Maybe. 262 00:19:18,657 --> 00:19:20,423 Or, like I said, he's taunting us. 263 00:19:20,425 --> 00:19:22,993 Catch me if you can, so to speak. 264 00:19:42,781 --> 00:19:44,281 Do you have any suspects? 265 00:19:44,284 --> 00:19:45,282 Out of the way, please. 266 00:19:45,285 --> 00:19:46,616 Have you made any arrests? 267 00:19:46,618 --> 00:19:47,451 No comment. 268 00:19:47,452 --> 00:19:48,653 Nothing to say at this stage. 269 00:19:48,654 --> 00:19:50,020 How many more are gonna die? 270 00:19:50,022 --> 00:19:50,887 Out of the way, please. 271 00:19:50,890 --> 00:19:51,622 Excuse me. 272 00:19:51,624 --> 00:19:52,222 Excuse me. 273 00:19:57,329 --> 00:19:59,797 In Seattle, another grim discovery today 274 00:19:59,798 --> 00:20:03,300 that could be connected to the string of Green River murders 275 00:20:03,303 --> 00:20:05,569 that have shaken that West Coast city. 276 00:20:05,571 --> 00:20:08,573 Explorer scouts today found a fourth skull 277 00:20:08,575 --> 00:20:10,540 off in a wooded area outside of town 278 00:20:10,542 --> 00:20:13,877 where three other skeletons were discovered this weekend. 279 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,781 Most of the victims have been young prostitutes. 280 00:20:17,849 --> 00:20:21,051 So, Sandra, how did you and Dave meet? 281 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,854 We actually went to the same high school, 282 00:20:23,855 --> 00:20:25,690 but we didn't really meet there. 283 00:20:25,692 --> 00:20:29,125 I used to see her in the stands at the football games. 284 00:20:29,127 --> 00:20:30,327 I found it quite distracting, 285 00:20:30,329 --> 00:20:33,396 pretty sure I missed a few catches because of her. 286 00:20:33,398 --> 00:20:35,199 Yeah, right. 287 00:20:35,201 --> 00:20:39,737 Anyway, um, I worked after school at the local library, 288 00:20:39,739 --> 00:20:41,939 my mom worked there for years, so she got me a job. 289 00:20:41,941 --> 00:20:43,708 It was just around the corner from my house, 290 00:20:43,710 --> 00:20:47,744 so I'd go in every day after school, 291 00:20:47,747 --> 00:20:48,945 check out some books. 292 00:20:48,948 --> 00:20:52,717 I'd find pretty much any excuse to talk to her. 293 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,153 About... after two months, 294 00:20:56,154 --> 00:20:59,757 Dave had this huge stack of overdue books. 295 00:20:59,759 --> 00:21:02,727 I liked talking to him, so I didn't wanna remind him, 296 00:21:02,729 --> 00:21:05,895 and, um, then he realized on his own 297 00:21:05,897 --> 00:21:08,766 and brought in this big stack of books. 298 00:21:08,768 --> 00:21:11,102 And I told him I would get rid of the fees 299 00:21:11,104 --> 00:21:14,305 if he took me out to dinner, which he did, 300 00:21:14,307 --> 00:21:16,207 and here we are. 301 00:21:16,675 --> 00:21:18,108 What a great story. 302 00:21:18,577 --> 00:21:20,010 Are you married, Bob? 303 00:21:20,413 --> 00:21:21,645 I was... 304 00:21:22,115 --> 00:21:23,446 to Kathleen. 305 00:21:24,349 --> 00:21:27,817 She died a year ago, cancer. 306 00:21:27,819 --> 00:21:31,055 Oh, god, I'm so sorry. 307 00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:41,632 Hey, Deb? 308 00:21:43,302 --> 00:21:44,969 What was that about? 309 00:21:44,971 --> 00:21:45,836 I don't know. 310 00:21:45,837 --> 00:21:47,771 Do you want me to go talk to her? 311 00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:48,905 No, 312 00:21:48,907 --> 00:21:49,940 no, 313 00:21:49,942 --> 00:21:51,142 I'll go. 314 00:21:51,644 --> 00:21:53,144 Excuse me. 315 00:21:58,984 --> 00:22:00,183 What? 316 00:22:02,087 --> 00:22:03,386 You okay? 317 00:22:03,388 --> 00:22:05,155 Not really. 318 00:22:05,557 --> 00:22:07,857 Have I done something wrong? 319 00:22:11,530 --> 00:22:16,599 I'm sorry, it's just, I was at a party earlier, 320 00:22:16,602 --> 00:22:19,336 some guys started saying things. 321 00:22:19,638 --> 00:22:21,204 About what? 322 00:22:22,942 --> 00:22:24,075 You. 323 00:22:24,576 --> 00:22:26,410 What did they say? 324 00:22:28,914 --> 00:22:30,413 They said everyone in town 325 00:22:30,415 --> 00:22:32,782 knows you're messing up the case. 326 00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:35,051 Some of them said that their parents 327 00:22:35,054 --> 00:22:38,888 watch you on the news and call you names. 328 00:22:39,057 --> 00:22:40,857 What kinda names? 329 00:22:40,859 --> 00:22:44,194 They say you don't have any balls, 330 00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:50,233 and that you're too weak to catch the killer. 331 00:22:55,107 --> 00:22:57,407 I'm sorry you had to hear that. 332 00:22:58,478 --> 00:22:59,676 I know it's not your fault, 333 00:22:59,679 --> 00:23:02,346 I'm sorry for getting mad, it's just-- 334 00:23:02,347 --> 00:23:06,317 You have every right to be annoyed. 335 00:23:06,752 --> 00:23:10,354 It's my job, you didn't ask for this. 336 00:23:11,824 --> 00:23:14,924 It's not just your job though, is it, Dad? 337 00:23:16,596 --> 00:23:18,429 What do you mean? 338 00:23:18,865 --> 00:23:19,930 It's your life. 339 00:23:19,932 --> 00:23:22,566 You and your mother are my life. 340 00:23:22,567 --> 00:23:23,666 But we have to share you 341 00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:27,570 with all of the criminals in this little part of the world. 342 00:23:27,973 --> 00:23:30,508 They get more of your time than we do. 343 00:23:30,509 --> 00:23:35,346 I'm sorry, Deb, I'll try to make more time for us. 344 00:23:37,215 --> 00:23:38,449 Okay. 345 00:23:39,352 --> 00:23:40,617 Okay. 346 00:23:52,565 --> 00:23:54,498 He's been called the Green River Killer 347 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:57,401 ever since the first bodies, five of them, 348 00:23:57,403 --> 00:23:58,701 were pulled from this river. 349 00:23:58,703 --> 00:24:02,338 You know, this issue with the press isn't gonna go away. 350 00:24:02,340 --> 00:24:04,375 I didn't have any new information, 351 00:24:04,376 --> 00:24:07,310 there was no point talking to them. 352 00:24:07,512 --> 00:24:09,579 But we did get something new today. 353 00:24:09,582 --> 00:24:10,914 Nothing to leak to the press yet, 354 00:24:10,916 --> 00:24:13,217 but it could change how you deal with the media. 355 00:24:13,219 --> 00:24:16,519 The posing of the body with the wine and the fish? 356 00:24:16,521 --> 00:24:17,320 Yeah. 357 00:24:17,323 --> 00:24:19,656 That wasn't part of his modus operandi 358 00:24:19,659 --> 00:24:21,125 with previous victims. 359 00:24:21,126 --> 00:24:23,493 That was his way of engaging with us, 360 00:24:23,496 --> 00:24:25,261 or, more to the point, you. 361 00:24:25,263 --> 00:24:28,465 It's like he's saying, "This is my banquet, Detective." 362 00:24:28,468 --> 00:24:32,569 You really think he sat at home watching the news reports? 363 00:24:32,572 --> 00:24:33,436 Of course. 364 00:24:33,439 --> 00:24:36,507 Narcissism is one of the symptoms of psychopathy, 365 00:24:36,509 --> 00:24:37,974 that's the dichotomy. 366 00:24:37,977 --> 00:24:39,876 Damaged self-esteem on the one hand, 367 00:24:39,878 --> 00:24:44,647 but also a grandiose sense of self-importance on the other. 368 00:24:44,650 --> 00:24:46,349 In the killer's head, 369 00:24:46,486 --> 00:24:49,586 this murder spree may be the ultimate game. 370 00:24:49,588 --> 00:24:51,154 Now you're his main opponent. 371 00:24:51,156 --> 00:24:54,592 Sun Tzu, the Chinese general who wrote "The Art of War", 372 00:24:54,594 --> 00:24:58,863 he said, "If you're far from your enemy, 373 00:24:59,065 --> 00:25:01,565 "make him believe you're near." 374 00:25:04,436 --> 00:25:06,436 Just something to keep in mind. 375 00:25:16,348 --> 00:25:19,583 As you know, we've discovered another body. 376 00:25:19,585 --> 00:25:22,752 I won't be taking any questions today, 377 00:25:22,755 --> 00:25:25,021 I just came to say one thing. 378 00:25:25,124 --> 00:25:28,192 I wanna talk directly to the killer. 379 00:25:33,798 --> 00:25:35,798 I know you're out there, 380 00:25:36,469 --> 00:25:38,201 watching this, 381 00:25:38,637 --> 00:25:41,572 I don't need profilers and psychiatrists 382 00:25:41,574 --> 00:25:45,675 to tell me you're a sick son of a bitch. 383 00:25:45,677 --> 00:25:47,310 You're not even a man, 384 00:25:47,313 --> 00:25:50,548 I doubt you have the equipment for it. 385 00:25:50,849 --> 00:25:52,449 You're a demented pervert 386 00:25:52,451 --> 00:25:54,417 who doesn't deserve to breathe the same air 387 00:25:54,420 --> 00:25:58,221 as the people you have so callously murdered. 388 00:25:59,057 --> 00:26:01,959 You are gutless, pathetic, 389 00:26:01,961 --> 00:26:03,059 and when your luck runs out, 390 00:26:03,061 --> 00:26:05,395 and make no mistake, it will, 391 00:26:05,397 --> 00:26:07,298 I'll be right there to take you down, 392 00:26:07,299 --> 00:26:09,700 you got that, you piece of? 393 00:26:09,701 --> 00:26:12,569 That's a promise from me to you. 394 00:26:14,941 --> 00:26:15,739 Thank you. 395 00:26:19,679 --> 00:26:20,544 Hey, slugger. 396 00:26:20,546 --> 00:26:21,711 How was school today? 397 00:26:21,713 --> 00:26:22,946 Good. 398 00:26:23,214 --> 00:26:24,280 He made you this. 399 00:26:24,282 --> 00:26:26,049 ...Began in the summer of 1982, 400 00:26:26,051 --> 00:26:27,651 and since then, an army of detectives 401 00:26:27,653 --> 00:26:29,853 and a multimillion-dollar computer system 402 00:26:29,855 --> 00:26:31,922 have been unable to track the killer. 403 00:26:31,923 --> 00:26:32,823 Thank you. 404 00:26:32,825 --> 00:26:34,557 It is a familiar routine, 405 00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:36,393 for the Green River Task Force sifting through 406 00:26:36,394 --> 00:26:37,994 any remaining evidence on the site 407 00:26:37,997 --> 00:26:41,865 where someone had stumbled across human remains. 408 00:27:00,685 --> 00:27:02,853 Your office forwarded this. 409 00:27:04,856 --> 00:27:06,923 You haven't been demoted to mailman already, 410 00:27:06,925 --> 00:27:07,891 have you, Tom? 411 00:27:07,893 --> 00:27:09,593 If we don't catch this prick soon, 412 00:27:09,595 --> 00:27:10,994 maybe I will be. 413 00:27:24,542 --> 00:27:26,509 Oh my god. 414 00:27:29,848 --> 00:27:31,214 Dearest Bob. 415 00:27:31,217 --> 00:27:33,983 It has been the better part of two years 416 00:27:33,986 --> 00:27:35,551 since we've corresponded, 417 00:27:35,554 --> 00:27:38,622 and I must admit, I've missed it. 418 00:27:38,624 --> 00:27:40,190 I've followed, with great interest, 419 00:27:40,192 --> 00:27:43,727 the case of "The Riverman", and see from the news reports 420 00:27:43,729 --> 00:27:47,364 that you are advising the task force. 421 00:27:47,365 --> 00:27:49,400 I recently saw a press conference 422 00:27:49,402 --> 00:27:51,134 with Detective Richards. 423 00:27:51,136 --> 00:27:54,270 Not the usual police officer, is he? 424 00:27:54,272 --> 00:27:57,775 He seems to be taking it quite personally. 425 00:27:58,076 --> 00:27:59,175 As you know, 426 00:27:59,177 --> 00:28:04,347 I have some experience in The Riverman's field of expertise. 427 00:28:04,349 --> 00:28:06,884 I believe I can help you. 428 00:28:07,086 --> 00:28:08,585 If you have the time to visit me, 429 00:28:08,586 --> 00:28:12,388 along with Detective Richards, please do. 430 00:28:12,724 --> 00:28:15,325 Time for me is running out, 431 00:28:15,326 --> 00:28:18,996 I would like to make use of what remains. 432 00:28:18,998 --> 00:28:24,601 Kind regards, your old friend, Theodore Bundy. 433 00:28:26,905 --> 00:28:29,373 David, your thoughts? 434 00:28:29,375 --> 00:28:32,241 Well, the key question is, 435 00:28:32,243 --> 00:28:34,845 could he actually help the investigation, 436 00:28:34,846 --> 00:28:38,548 or would he be leading us on some circle jerk 437 00:28:38,550 --> 00:28:40,416 for his own amusement? 438 00:28:40,752 --> 00:28:43,386 He has an agenda, he always does. 439 00:28:43,388 --> 00:28:46,155 What's his agenda here? To buy time? 440 00:28:46,157 --> 00:28:47,257 Yeah, I'd say so. 441 00:28:47,259 --> 00:28:50,961 Like he says in his letter, time is running out for him. 442 00:28:50,962 --> 00:28:52,563 He'll do everything he can 443 00:28:52,565 --> 00:28:54,263 to court favor with the authorities 444 00:28:54,266 --> 00:28:56,799 and get a reprieve from execution. 445 00:28:58,203 --> 00:29:02,673 What's it like coming face to face with someone like that? 446 00:29:02,674 --> 00:29:05,843 Maybe you need to find out for yourself. 447 00:29:05,845 --> 00:29:06,844 At some point, 448 00:29:06,846 --> 00:29:09,011 you're gonna be face to face with the Green River Killer. 449 00:29:09,013 --> 00:29:10,948 After you meet Ted Bundy, 450 00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:14,017 evil will no longer be a mystery to you. 451 00:29:22,694 --> 00:29:23,894 What? 452 00:29:23,996 --> 00:29:27,131 Two days talking to a madman in Florida? 453 00:29:27,133 --> 00:29:29,967 Don't you have enough to deal with right now? 454 00:29:30,269 --> 00:29:32,336 It might be a complete waste of time, 455 00:29:32,337 --> 00:29:36,673 or it could help with the investigation, who knows, 456 00:29:36,674 --> 00:29:39,910 but we have no suspects yet, 457 00:29:39,912 --> 00:29:42,613 I have to try everything I can. 458 00:29:45,250 --> 00:29:48,050 I just worry about you, that's all. 459 00:29:48,653 --> 00:29:50,319 It'll be fine. 460 00:29:51,457 --> 00:29:52,689 Come here. 461 00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:07,871 Where are you going? 462 00:30:08,007 --> 00:30:09,506 I've got a few errands to run. 463 00:30:09,508 --> 00:30:13,143 Well, you know you're looking after Adam tonight. 464 00:30:14,313 --> 00:30:15,846 How come? 465 00:30:18,250 --> 00:30:22,986 I've got a dinner with Amy and the girls. 466 00:30:25,490 --> 00:30:28,858 It's her birthday, I told you about this weeks ago. 467 00:30:32,597 --> 00:30:34,364 What's the matter? 468 00:30:37,102 --> 00:30:39,236 What's the matter? 469 00:30:42,141 --> 00:30:44,340 I've got something important to do. 470 00:30:44,343 --> 00:30:46,375 It's been playing on my mind all week, 471 00:30:46,377 --> 00:30:49,445 I need to take care of it tonight. 472 00:30:49,548 --> 00:30:53,282 Come on, Gary, I had my plans first. 473 00:30:53,285 --> 00:30:54,351 If you have to leave the house, 474 00:30:54,353 --> 00:30:56,686 can't you take Adam with you? 475 00:31:08,433 --> 00:31:10,067 I guess so. 476 00:31:11,069 --> 00:31:12,368 Thank you. 477 00:31:14,573 --> 00:31:16,772 I'll be home around 11. 478 00:31:17,910 --> 00:31:19,142 Alright. 479 00:31:57,182 --> 00:31:58,848 Dad, where are we going? 480 00:31:58,851 --> 00:32:03,452 I gotta pick up a friend of mine, drop her off somewhere. 481 00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:39,556 Hello, Bob. 482 00:32:40,558 --> 00:32:41,991 Ted. 483 00:32:57,241 --> 00:32:58,842 Long time no see. 484 00:33:00,045 --> 00:33:01,678 It's been a while. 485 00:33:02,748 --> 00:33:06,717 And this must be the famous Detective Richards. 486 00:33:19,565 --> 00:33:22,865 As always, Ted, we'll be recording this. 487 00:33:23,568 --> 00:33:24,934 Of course. 488 00:33:29,375 --> 00:33:33,876 It's the 2nd of September, approximately 9:30 p.m., 489 00:33:33,878 --> 00:33:35,912 at Florida State Prison. 490 00:33:35,980 --> 00:33:38,749 This is a tape-recorded interview with Bob Keller, 491 00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:41,451 David Richards, and Ted Bundy. 492 00:33:42,354 --> 00:33:45,788 So, Ted, would you like to begin? 493 00:33:46,090 --> 00:33:47,758 Well, this is just 494 00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:52,028 sort of a spontaneous dialogue we're having here. 495 00:33:52,030 --> 00:33:55,999 I'm not approaching it in any organized fashion. 496 00:33:56,167 --> 00:34:00,002 I don't even know if I can be of any real assistance. 497 00:34:00,005 --> 00:34:01,971 You're the detectives after all. 498 00:34:01,973 --> 00:34:05,241 We'd value any insights you may have. 499 00:34:06,545 --> 00:34:08,644 Well, did you bring a copy of the case file? 500 00:34:08,646 --> 00:34:12,449 Um, I'm not sure it would be ethical to give you-- 501 00:34:12,451 --> 00:34:13,983 It's fine. 502 00:34:45,317 --> 00:34:48,952 The Riverman enjoys easy prey. 503 00:34:49,387 --> 00:34:50,554 The victims? 504 00:34:50,556 --> 00:34:51,353 Yes. 505 00:34:51,356 --> 00:34:54,224 Prostitutes are low risk. 506 00:34:54,226 --> 00:34:55,826 Not many people would miss them. 507 00:34:55,827 --> 00:34:59,496 Who would you consider to be high-risk prey? 508 00:34:59,931 --> 00:35:02,264 Well, people who work normal jobs, 509 00:35:02,266 --> 00:35:05,335 have families, social circles, 510 00:35:05,336 --> 00:35:07,536 people who are noticed. 511 00:35:09,041 --> 00:35:09,972 You know, 512 00:35:09,974 --> 00:35:11,942 with all the slasher movies being made at the moment, 513 00:35:11,943 --> 00:35:15,612 you should stake out the car parks of the movie theaters. 514 00:35:15,614 --> 00:35:19,382 I am sure you'd find many serial killers of the future, 515 00:35:19,384 --> 00:35:23,487 people who go to those films to fuel their fantasies. 516 00:35:23,722 --> 00:35:26,722 When I was a kid, I just had the detective magazines. 517 00:35:26,724 --> 00:35:28,023 I don't think staking out 518 00:35:28,025 --> 00:35:30,594 thousands of movie theaters is practical, 519 00:35:30,596 --> 00:35:32,195 given the limited numbers of police 520 00:35:32,197 --> 00:35:34,364 we can assign to the case. 521 00:35:34,666 --> 00:35:35,565 Perhaps not. 522 00:35:35,567 --> 00:35:38,168 But you could stake out his old dump sites. 523 00:35:38,170 --> 00:35:40,836 You mean where he left the bodies? 524 00:35:40,838 --> 00:35:42,005 Yes. 525 00:35:42,007 --> 00:35:43,306 He'll return to them. 526 00:35:43,307 --> 00:35:46,041 He's going back to check out the scene 527 00:35:46,043 --> 00:35:48,077 and see the condition of the body 528 00:35:48,079 --> 00:35:49,445 after it's been there for a while, 529 00:35:49,447 --> 00:35:54,784 for, uh, well, whatever kick he might get out of that. 530 00:35:54,786 --> 00:35:56,152 Necrophilia? 531 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,887 Look, what he's doing is not normal, 532 00:35:57,889 --> 00:36:01,023 so you can't apply normal standards to it. 533 00:36:01,025 --> 00:36:04,894 He might just drive by, see if the scene is being disturbed, 534 00:36:04,896 --> 00:36:07,597 if the body has been discovered. 535 00:36:07,766 --> 00:36:09,166 Well, if it hasn't, 536 00:36:09,168 --> 00:36:12,335 well, he might wanna take it all in again. 537 00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:20,543 Would he go back to a site after we've discovered it? 538 00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:21,478 Oh, no. 539 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,347 At that point, he wouldn't touch it with a 10-mile pole. 540 00:36:24,949 --> 00:36:28,018 Why do you think guys like him kill? 541 00:36:29,054 --> 00:36:33,088 Well, there's a certain aspect of possessiveness 542 00:36:33,090 --> 00:36:34,891 in serial killing. 543 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,960 I think that's one way of describing it, 544 00:36:36,961 --> 00:36:38,195 well, in rather bland terms, 545 00:36:38,197 --> 00:36:40,931 but a possessiveness where the corpse 546 00:36:40,932 --> 00:36:44,833 might easily be as important as the live victim, 547 00:36:44,835 --> 00:36:47,137 in some respects. 548 00:36:47,139 --> 00:36:49,639 What I mean is, a possessiveness, 549 00:36:49,641 --> 00:36:53,175 an ownership, a taking, if you will, 550 00:36:53,177 --> 00:36:55,744 and that's part of the syndrome. 551 00:36:55,746 --> 00:36:57,447 And I think that's one of the reasons why, 552 00:36:57,449 --> 00:36:59,748 in some cases, not all, certainly, 553 00:36:59,751 --> 00:37:03,485 but he might be intending to return to the scene, 554 00:37:03,487 --> 00:37:06,722 interact with the body in some way. 555 00:37:08,994 --> 00:37:11,027 According to the time of death, 556 00:37:11,028 --> 00:37:14,130 all these murders happened on a weekday. 557 00:37:14,132 --> 00:37:15,197 What does that tell you? 558 00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:17,967 Well, he obviously prefers to troll on a weekday. 559 00:37:17,969 --> 00:37:21,070 He might have other commitments of the weekend, 560 00:37:21,072 --> 00:37:23,405 people he's close to, perhaps. 561 00:37:23,407 --> 00:37:24,873 You think he has family? 562 00:37:24,876 --> 00:37:26,443 Oh, possibly. 563 00:37:28,112 --> 00:37:30,746 What'd you mean by "troll"? 564 00:37:30,949 --> 00:37:33,750 Well, it's what he does. 565 00:37:33,751 --> 00:37:35,284 Watching, 566 00:37:35,721 --> 00:37:36,786 waiting, 567 00:37:36,788 --> 00:37:38,655 selecting. 568 00:37:39,023 --> 00:37:41,358 He knows his hunting ground. 569 00:37:41,893 --> 00:37:42,791 Hey, Julie. 570 00:37:42,793 --> 00:37:44,393 Hey. 571 00:37:44,396 --> 00:37:45,327 This is my son. 572 00:37:45,329 --> 00:37:48,197 You remember, I showed you a picture of him before. 573 00:37:49,001 --> 00:37:51,201 Oh, sure, yeah. 574 00:37:51,570 --> 00:37:54,336 So, what's the deal here? 575 00:37:54,338 --> 00:37:56,172 You want the kid to watch? 576 00:37:56,173 --> 00:37:57,907 'Cause I'm in to that. 577 00:37:58,076 --> 00:37:58,842 No. 578 00:37:58,844 --> 00:38:00,976 I didn't plan on bringing him along, 579 00:38:00,978 --> 00:38:03,346 but his mother had to go out. 580 00:38:03,949 --> 00:38:05,815 I figured we'd go to the woods 581 00:38:05,817 --> 00:38:07,751 and he could wait in the car. 582 00:38:07,753 --> 00:38:09,152 I'll be quick. 583 00:38:09,521 --> 00:38:11,887 Sure, I remember. 584 00:38:13,625 --> 00:38:14,824 Get in. 585 00:38:14,893 --> 00:38:17,092 He targets his prey. 586 00:38:17,094 --> 00:38:20,262 He plans what he wants to do in his mind, 587 00:38:20,264 --> 00:38:22,965 down to the smallest detail. 588 00:38:23,101 --> 00:38:24,233 By the time he closes in, 589 00:38:24,235 --> 00:38:27,536 it's almost like it's already happened. 590 00:38:40,485 --> 00:38:41,851 Okay, 591 00:38:42,653 --> 00:38:44,521 this is far enough. 592 00:38:46,257 --> 00:38:47,856 You got the money? 593 00:38:57,034 --> 00:39:00,336 So, how do you wanna do this? 594 00:39:01,505 --> 00:39:05,240 That tree over there, bend over it. 595 00:39:16,188 --> 00:39:19,989 He's played it out in his mind so many times. 596 00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:21,657 But when the time is right, 597 00:39:21,659 --> 00:39:23,326 and he swoops on his chosen one, 598 00:39:23,327 --> 00:39:27,463 well, then it's like the spider and the fly. 599 00:39:27,465 --> 00:39:30,733 Fantasy finally becomes reality. 600 00:39:30,735 --> 00:39:32,902 And speaking of fantasy, 601 00:39:32,903 --> 00:39:35,003 well, that's what normality is. 602 00:39:35,005 --> 00:39:37,273 What's normal for the spider, 603 00:39:37,275 --> 00:39:41,277 well, it can seem like chaos to the fly. 604 00:40:48,914 --> 00:40:51,213 Did she get home okay? 605 00:40:53,018 --> 00:40:54,416 Yeah. 606 00:41:03,661 --> 00:41:06,028 Can you go there, Detective? 607 00:41:08,233 --> 00:41:09,032 Where? 608 00:41:09,034 --> 00:41:13,503 Inside his mind, think like he thinks. 609 00:41:13,505 --> 00:41:15,538 I'm not sure I can. 610 00:41:16,273 --> 00:41:17,639 Oh, you can. 611 00:41:17,742 --> 00:41:22,911 We all have that coldblooded, primal instinct within us. 612 00:41:23,047 --> 00:41:26,349 Whether you wanna touch upon your own is... 613 00:41:26,585 --> 00:41:28,918 well, that's another story. 614 00:42:59,043 --> 00:42:59,909 Hello? 615 00:42:59,911 --> 00:43:01,945 Dave, it's Tom. 616 00:43:01,947 --> 00:43:02,978 What is it? 617 00:43:02,981 --> 00:43:04,681 We've found another body. 618 00:43:05,583 --> 00:43:06,782 Shit. 619 00:43:06,985 --> 00:43:09,552 I thought we had our guys staking out the Green River? 620 00:43:09,554 --> 00:43:10,920 We didn't find it there, 621 00:43:10,922 --> 00:43:14,123 this one was found in a woodland near Long Avenue. 622 00:43:14,125 --> 00:43:16,525 Definitely him though, same M.O. 623 00:43:16,527 --> 00:43:18,661 You tell the press yet? 624 00:43:18,663 --> 00:43:19,596 No. 625 00:43:19,597 --> 00:43:21,264 I've only just ordered the forensics team down there. 626 00:43:21,266 --> 00:43:22,231 Call it off. 627 00:43:22,233 --> 00:43:24,534 - What do you mean? - Tell the team to back off, 628 00:43:24,536 --> 00:43:27,170 leave the site just as it was found. 629 00:43:27,172 --> 00:43:28,605 Don't tell the press, 630 00:43:28,606 --> 00:43:30,773 don't tell anyone in the department 631 00:43:30,775 --> 00:43:31,907 who doesn't already know. 632 00:43:31,909 --> 00:43:35,545 Leave the body exactly where it was found, Tom. 633 00:43:35,813 --> 00:43:37,146 Why? 634 00:43:37,148 --> 00:43:38,780 Bundy said the killer will return 635 00:43:38,782 --> 00:43:41,016 to where he dumped the bodies. 636 00:43:41,018 --> 00:43:42,184 If you leave this body there 637 00:43:42,186 --> 00:43:43,820 and he doesn't see anything on the news, 638 00:43:43,822 --> 00:43:46,322 he might think it's not been discovered yet. 639 00:43:46,324 --> 00:43:48,657 Then he'll go back. 640 00:43:48,659 --> 00:43:51,094 That's when we'll be staking out those woods. 641 00:43:51,096 --> 00:43:53,695 Okay, I'll go myself with Kavanagh. 642 00:43:53,697 --> 00:43:55,465 No, no, I'll go with you, 643 00:43:55,467 --> 00:43:57,666 I'm heading to the airport right now. 644 00:43:57,668 --> 00:44:00,670 I'll be back in a few hours, yeah? 645 00:44:00,672 --> 00:44:01,804 Got it. 646 00:44:01,806 --> 00:44:03,005 Bye. 647 00:44:23,494 --> 00:44:25,394 Flying solo today, Bob? 648 00:44:25,396 --> 00:44:29,731 Detective Richards had to travel back to the Green River. 649 00:44:29,733 --> 00:44:32,434 Have they found another body? 650 00:44:37,342 --> 00:44:42,110 Well, I hope the information I gave yesterday was helpful. 651 00:44:42,112 --> 00:44:43,079 It was. 652 00:44:43,081 --> 00:44:45,414 And since you're in a helpful mood, 653 00:44:45,416 --> 00:44:49,184 I thought today we could discuss a different subject. 654 00:44:49,186 --> 00:44:50,952 What's that? 655 00:44:50,954 --> 00:44:52,588 You know, Ted, 656 00:44:52,657 --> 00:44:55,557 there are still five cases we're concerned about, 657 00:44:55,559 --> 00:44:59,628 missing girls, Washington and Utah. 658 00:45:00,931 --> 00:45:02,297 Okay. 659 00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:06,469 Well, maybe we can talk about that. 660 00:45:06,938 --> 00:45:08,637 I guess it depends. 661 00:45:08,639 --> 00:45:09,405 On what? 662 00:45:09,407 --> 00:45:12,375 Did you speak to the attorney general? 663 00:45:12,811 --> 00:45:14,210 I spoke to him last night. 664 00:45:14,211 --> 00:45:17,914 I told him you'd been receptive to our questioning. 665 00:45:17,916 --> 00:45:19,548 But truth be told, Ted, 666 00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:21,951 he knows there are a lot of families out there 667 00:45:21,952 --> 00:45:23,885 that need closure. 668 00:45:23,954 --> 00:45:26,322 But before we get down to that, 669 00:45:26,324 --> 00:45:29,659 has the attorney general discussed in firm terms 670 00:45:29,661 --> 00:45:35,164 what the outcome of these conversations could be for me? 671 00:45:35,333 --> 00:45:38,333 He said any information you can provide 672 00:45:38,335 --> 00:45:40,503 which can give the families closure 673 00:45:40,505 --> 00:45:43,139 will be given the greatest consideration 674 00:45:43,141 --> 00:45:44,340 when discussions take place 675 00:45:44,342 --> 00:45:47,744 about the implementation of the death penalty. 676 00:45:48,313 --> 00:45:50,179 Okay. 677 00:45:50,181 --> 00:45:51,447 Good. 678 00:45:52,016 --> 00:45:54,650 Well, I'm sure you know, Bob, 679 00:45:54,652 --> 00:45:57,753 it all began in Washington state. 680 00:45:58,155 --> 00:45:59,288 That's where I was living, 681 00:45:59,289 --> 00:46:02,492 where I grew up as a kid and a young man, 682 00:46:02,494 --> 00:46:04,260 where those kinds of impulses 683 00:46:04,262 --> 00:46:09,398 which ultimately led to the violent behavior were born. 684 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:10,599 Yeah. 685 00:46:12,036 --> 00:46:15,304 This is where I'm a little, um... 686 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,306 The presence of the officer down here, 687 00:46:18,309 --> 00:46:21,344 well, it's a little unnerving. 688 00:46:21,346 --> 00:46:24,514 Some of this stuff I don't mind talking about because, 689 00:46:24,516 --> 00:46:27,682 well, he wouldn't know it from Adam, but, 690 00:46:28,519 --> 00:46:30,219 well, I can write it down, 691 00:46:30,221 --> 00:46:33,822 or whisper it to you, whatever. 692 00:46:36,293 --> 00:46:37,559 Okay. 693 00:46:55,346 --> 00:46:57,380 Can you hear that? 694 00:46:59,184 --> 00:47:00,782 Yeah, I can hear it. 695 00:47:00,918 --> 00:47:06,021 I just wrote down the name Joanne Dawkins. 696 00:47:07,224 --> 00:47:08,423 So... 697 00:47:09,260 --> 00:47:13,262 the Dawkins girl's head was severed 698 00:47:14,199 --> 00:47:19,034 and taken up the road about 25-50 yards 699 00:47:19,036 --> 00:47:21,804 and then buried in a location 700 00:47:21,806 --> 00:47:24,739 about 10 yards west of the road 701 00:47:24,742 --> 00:47:29,010 on a rocky hillside in Washington. 702 00:47:32,550 --> 00:47:34,349 Did you hear that? 703 00:47:35,018 --> 00:47:36,284 Yeah. 704 00:47:39,023 --> 00:47:42,992 Lord knows what the little creatures up there did to it, 705 00:47:42,994 --> 00:47:45,894 what those animals would have done. 706 00:47:45,963 --> 00:47:48,530 Well, I can draw you a map to where you can find it, 707 00:47:48,532 --> 00:47:49,398 if you like. 708 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,001 Thank you, that would be helpful. 709 00:47:52,003 --> 00:47:55,871 But first, how did you encounter her? 710 00:47:56,007 --> 00:47:59,407 Oh, I was making my way up an alleyway, 711 00:47:59,409 --> 00:48:03,246 with my briefcase, using crutches, 712 00:48:03,547 --> 00:48:06,748 and a young woman was walking down. 713 00:48:07,085 --> 00:48:10,253 I saw her walk around the north end of the block 714 00:48:10,255 --> 00:48:12,420 and into the alleyway. 715 00:48:12,891 --> 00:48:13,922 She stopped for a moment 716 00:48:13,925 --> 00:48:17,492 and then kept on walking down toward me. 717 00:48:17,929 --> 00:48:18,960 About halfway, 718 00:48:18,963 --> 00:48:20,762 I encountered her 719 00:48:20,831 --> 00:48:23,932 and asked if she'd help carry my briefcase, 720 00:48:23,934 --> 00:48:25,400 which she did, 721 00:48:25,402 --> 00:48:29,070 and we went back up the alleyway. 722 00:48:29,306 --> 00:48:31,539 Across the street, we turned right, 723 00:48:31,541 --> 00:48:36,579 on the sidewalk outside the old fraternity house there. 724 00:48:36,581 --> 00:48:38,481 We rounded the corner on the left 725 00:48:38,483 --> 00:48:41,050 and headed north on 47. 726 00:48:41,052 --> 00:48:42,418 About halfway up the block, 727 00:48:42,420 --> 00:48:44,420 there used to be this old parking lot, 728 00:48:44,422 --> 00:48:49,125 which they'd made out of the burned-out buildings there. 729 00:48:49,626 --> 00:48:52,094 So what happened when you rounded the corner? 730 00:48:52,096 --> 00:48:54,463 Oh, we went into the parking lot. 731 00:48:54,465 --> 00:48:55,597 When we reached my car, 732 00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:58,800 I knocked her unconscious with a crowbar. 733 00:48:58,802 --> 00:49:00,335 Where'd you have that stashed? 734 00:49:00,338 --> 00:49:03,806 Hidden behind the rear wheel of the car. 735 00:49:04,342 --> 00:49:05,474 Did she see it? 736 00:49:05,476 --> 00:49:06,442 No. 737 00:49:06,443 --> 00:49:10,512 There were some handcuffs along with the crowbar. 738 00:49:10,514 --> 00:49:15,050 I handcuffed her, put her in the passenger side of the car, 739 00:49:15,652 --> 00:49:17,152 and drove away. 740 00:49:40,378 --> 00:49:41,844 Dave. 741 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,981 Over there. 742 00:49:51,489 --> 00:49:52,989 Wait. 743 00:49:57,394 --> 00:49:58,561 Wait. 744 00:50:04,534 --> 00:50:05,835 Let's go. 745 00:50:07,405 --> 00:50:08,903 Don't fucking move! 746 00:51:25,449 --> 00:51:26,782 Put the fucking gun down now! 747 00:51:26,784 --> 00:51:29,418 Now put your hands on your head and back away! 748 00:51:30,353 --> 00:51:35,990 Freeze! 749 00:51:35,992 --> 00:51:39,561 Society wants to believe it can identify 750 00:51:39,563 --> 00:51:43,431 bad or harmful individuals, 751 00:51:44,001 --> 00:51:45,967 but it's not practical. 752 00:51:45,969 --> 00:51:49,472 The truth is, people who indulge in this sort of thing, 753 00:51:49,474 --> 00:51:53,976 well, they look just like everyone else. 754 00:51:53,978 --> 00:51:57,445 Their subconscious might be a raging inferno, 755 00:51:57,447 --> 00:52:02,117 but you'd never tell, they blend in so well. 756 00:52:02,786 --> 00:52:06,188 This is what it comes down to, Bob, 757 00:52:06,356 --> 00:52:09,190 we serial killers, 758 00:52:09,460 --> 00:52:11,893 we're your sons, 759 00:52:11,896 --> 00:52:14,063 your husbands, 760 00:52:14,565 --> 00:52:16,465 we're everywhere, 761 00:52:17,335 --> 00:52:23,572 and there will be more of your children dead tomorrow. 762 00:52:27,177 --> 00:52:29,545 All of us on this earth 763 00:52:29,547 --> 00:52:32,380 know that there is a time to live 764 00:52:32,382 --> 00:52:34,650 and that there is a time to die, 765 00:52:34,652 --> 00:52:39,288 yet death is always a shock to those left behind. 766 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,161 Jesus, Dad, you scared me. 767 00:52:45,163 --> 00:52:48,063 I didn't realize anyone else was up. 768 00:52:48,065 --> 00:52:49,398 Sorry. 769 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,333 Struggling to sleep? 770 00:52:52,068 --> 00:52:52,867 Yeah. 771 00:52:52,869 --> 00:52:54,702 I have a big test at school tomorrow, 772 00:52:54,704 --> 00:52:57,773 and no matter how hard I hit the books, 773 00:52:57,775 --> 00:52:59,909 I just, I don't feel prepared. 774 00:52:59,911 --> 00:53:03,012 You'll do great, you always do. 775 00:53:14,625 --> 00:53:16,791 Hey, take a seat, 776 00:53:17,561 --> 00:53:19,128 watch some TV. 777 00:53:24,902 --> 00:53:26,135 The funeral over, 778 00:53:26,137 --> 00:53:29,405 the saddened group left the graveside. 779 00:53:39,717 --> 00:53:43,952 Deb, you know I love you, don't you? 780 00:53:44,021 --> 00:53:47,922 Sure, Dad, I know, I love you too. 781 00:53:47,925 --> 00:53:51,059 I'm very proud of you, you know that, right? 782 00:53:51,061 --> 00:53:53,829 You got some whiskey in that cup? 783 00:53:54,097 --> 00:53:56,264 No, it's just tea. 784 00:53:56,701 --> 00:53:59,768 Then what's with all the declarations? 785 00:54:02,106 --> 00:54:04,739 I just want you to know how much you mean to me, 786 00:54:04,742 --> 00:54:06,074 that's all. 787 00:54:07,945 --> 00:54:09,577 You're sweet, Dad. 788 00:54:10,681 --> 00:54:13,248 But I better get back to bed, 789 00:54:13,317 --> 00:54:15,150 see if I can get some sleep. 790 00:54:15,152 --> 00:54:16,918 Okay, sweetheart. 791 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:17,686 Goodnight. 792 00:54:17,688 --> 00:54:20,188 Goodnight. 793 00:54:33,103 --> 00:54:35,271 Where were you on June 17th? 794 00:54:36,974 --> 00:54:39,775 I had to take my truck to the shop. 795 00:54:40,644 --> 00:54:44,112 Have you ever cruised the SeaTac strip? 796 00:54:44,114 --> 00:54:47,148 I'm, I'm not familiar with that place. 797 00:54:47,550 --> 00:54:49,918 His name is Gary Ridgway. 798 00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,719 He was picked up for attempting to solicit 799 00:54:51,722 --> 00:54:56,891 an undercover police officer posing as a prostitute in May. 800 00:54:56,893 --> 00:54:59,360 Tom got a hunch and ran his record. 801 00:54:59,362 --> 00:55:02,931 He was accused of choking a prostitute in 1980, 802 00:55:02,932 --> 00:55:04,465 near the SeaTac strip. 803 00:55:04,467 --> 00:55:06,635 At the time, he pleaded self-defense, 804 00:55:06,637 --> 00:55:10,838 after claiming the woman bit him, and he got released. 805 00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,009 One of our officers stopped and questioned Ridgway last year 806 00:55:14,010 --> 00:55:17,545 while he was in his truck with a prostitute. 807 00:55:18,014 --> 00:55:19,280 They also approached this guy 808 00:55:19,282 --> 00:55:23,351 in connection with the kidnapping of Marie Olsen. 809 00:55:23,554 --> 00:55:24,552 Ridgway was questioned, 810 00:55:24,554 --> 00:55:27,056 but not enough evidence to make an arrest. 811 00:55:27,057 --> 00:55:30,259 Has anyone questioned the sex workers on the strip? 812 00:55:30,260 --> 00:55:32,161 Several prostitutes saw a man 813 00:55:32,163 --> 00:55:33,429 matching Ridgway's description 814 00:55:33,431 --> 00:55:36,798 regularly cruising the strip in the past two years. 815 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:41,336 Now he works at that factory down in Bellevue, 816 00:55:41,338 --> 00:55:42,403 painting trucks, 817 00:55:42,405 --> 00:55:44,572 so he would pass that strip almost daily 818 00:55:44,574 --> 00:55:46,574 on his way to and from work. 819 00:55:46,577 --> 00:55:48,242 Sarah Edgar. 820 00:55:48,846 --> 00:55:51,280 I've never heard of her. 821 00:55:51,648 --> 00:55:53,114 So what's your next move? 822 00:55:53,117 --> 00:55:56,018 I think we should get him to take a polygraph test. 823 00:55:56,019 --> 00:55:59,855 You know those things can't be considered 100% accurate. 824 00:55:59,856 --> 00:56:00,789 Yeah, I know, 825 00:56:00,791 --> 00:56:03,291 but I need something more than circumstantial 826 00:56:03,293 --> 00:56:04,659 if I'm gonna convince the chief 827 00:56:04,661 --> 00:56:07,161 there's a case to be made here. 828 00:56:07,231 --> 00:56:09,697 Do you think he's the killer? 829 00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,869 Something in my gut tells me he is. 830 00:56:14,771 --> 00:56:17,239 Then do what you have to do. 831 00:56:24,547 --> 00:56:27,483 Is your name Gary Leon Ridgway? 832 00:56:27,918 --> 00:56:29,251 Yes. 833 00:56:31,222 --> 00:56:34,789 Have you ever cruised the SeaTac strip? 834 00:56:34,791 --> 00:56:36,057 No. 835 00:56:36,126 --> 00:56:39,427 Have you ever hired a prostitute? 836 00:56:39,429 --> 00:56:40,896 No. 837 00:56:46,103 --> 00:56:49,070 Did you know Julie Kakova? 838 00:56:49,273 --> 00:56:50,405 No. 839 00:56:54,744 --> 00:56:56,911 Did you kill her? 840 00:56:57,347 --> 00:56:58,514 No. 841 00:57:05,922 --> 00:57:06,855 He passed. 842 00:57:06,856 --> 00:57:08,923 He fucking passed. 843 00:57:09,793 --> 00:57:10,858 Ridgway? 844 00:57:10,860 --> 00:57:11,994 Yeah. 845 00:57:13,197 --> 00:57:15,063 You know we got nothing on this guy now. 846 00:57:15,065 --> 00:57:18,634 We executed a search warrant on his home, turned up nothing. 847 00:57:18,635 --> 00:57:20,936 The forensics team test this guy? 848 00:57:20,938 --> 00:57:22,237 They took everything from him, 849 00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:24,572 saliva, piss, the whole shebang. 850 00:57:24,574 --> 00:57:25,673 There's nothing conclusive 851 00:57:25,675 --> 00:57:27,409 to link him to any of the crime scenes. 852 00:57:27,411 --> 00:57:28,643 Shit. 853 00:57:30,514 --> 00:57:32,313 We gotta let him go. 854 00:58:37,313 --> 00:58:40,315 46 bodies found since 1982. 855 00:58:40,317 --> 00:58:41,650 There have been several suspects, 856 00:58:41,652 --> 00:58:44,652 but a case can't be made against any of 'em. 857 00:58:44,655 --> 00:58:48,556 $15 million of public funds spent. 858 00:58:48,626 --> 00:58:52,760 As of today, the Green River Task Force will be dismantled. 859 00:58:52,762 --> 00:58:56,297 We simply can't continue spending this kinda money 860 00:58:56,300 --> 00:58:57,699 and allocating this much manpower 861 00:58:57,701 --> 00:59:01,469 to an investigation which has yielded no results. 862 00:59:01,572 --> 00:59:06,141 I know you were expecting this, and I hope you accept it. 863 00:59:06,677 --> 00:59:08,043 It's over, Dave. 864 00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,480 Respectfully, sir, 865 00:59:12,882 --> 00:59:14,949 it'll never be over. 866 00:59:17,855 --> 00:59:20,054 A sad and ugly chapter 867 00:59:20,056 --> 00:59:21,389 will end tomorrow morning 868 00:59:21,391 --> 00:59:24,192 as notorious serial killer Ted Bundy 869 00:59:24,193 --> 00:59:27,528 is set to die in Florida's electric chair. 870 00:59:27,530 --> 00:59:29,264 Officially, Bundy's execution will be for 871 00:59:29,266 --> 00:59:33,302 the kidnap and murder of 12-year-old Caroline Keach, 872 00:59:33,304 --> 00:59:38,106 but he was also found guilty of two additional 1978 slayings 873 00:59:38,108 --> 00:59:42,677 and is suspected in 20-40 other homicides, 874 00:59:42,679 --> 00:59:43,811 at least 23 of which 875 00:59:43,813 --> 00:59:45,514 he has confessed to law enforcement officials 876 00:59:45,516 --> 00:59:48,349 in the past few years. Faced with execution 877 00:59:48,351 --> 00:59:51,085 after nearly a decade of court appeals, 878 00:59:51,088 --> 00:59:54,822 Bundy has attempted to trade confessions for time 879 00:59:54,824 --> 00:59:55,891 to give lawmen details 880 00:59:55,893 --> 00:59:57,425 of all of the murders. 881 00:59:57,427 --> 01:00:00,561 The Florida governor refused to make such a trade. 882 01:00:00,563 --> 01:00:05,099 Bundy is scheduled to be executed at 7:00 a.m. 883 01:00:11,442 --> 01:00:13,208 Bob. 884 01:00:13,876 --> 01:00:15,043 Ted. 885 01:00:16,313 --> 01:00:18,981 You know, I could still provide information. 886 01:00:18,983 --> 01:00:22,784 I've remembered things that might help the families. 887 01:00:22,786 --> 01:00:24,652 I know you're hoping for a phone call, 888 01:00:24,655 --> 01:00:27,989 but I don't think it'll come. 889 01:00:28,891 --> 01:00:32,561 Many feel justice is being served tomorrow. 890 01:00:33,864 --> 01:00:35,230 What about you, Bob? 891 01:00:35,231 --> 01:00:38,634 Do you think justice is being served? 892 01:00:39,702 --> 01:00:42,471 I'm not here to pass judgment, Ted. 893 01:00:43,340 --> 01:00:45,474 Well, then why are you here? 894 01:00:45,541 --> 01:00:48,710 I'm interested in your thoughts on something. 895 01:00:49,947 --> 01:00:51,480 What's that? 896 01:00:53,516 --> 01:00:55,650 Why'd you go down this road? 897 01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:58,186 Well, everyone asks that. 898 01:00:58,188 --> 01:01:02,423 Yeah, but you never really answered it before, have you? 899 01:01:03,594 --> 01:01:05,193 What's the point? 900 01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:09,530 Help people understand perhaps. 901 01:01:09,666 --> 01:01:12,768 Maybe I can give you a little insight too. 902 01:01:12,769 --> 01:01:13,768 Maybe the truth is 903 01:01:13,771 --> 01:01:17,672 I don't have an answer to your question. 904 01:01:19,108 --> 01:01:20,307 Whenever I'm interviewed, 905 01:01:20,309 --> 01:01:24,413 people always ask, do I feel guilt for what I've done? 906 01:01:25,449 --> 01:01:26,581 Guilt... 907 01:01:28,152 --> 01:01:29,751 it's an illusion, 908 01:01:30,119 --> 01:01:33,320 a mechanism of social control. 909 01:01:33,322 --> 01:01:37,726 It's very unhealthy, does terrible things to the body. 910 01:01:38,896 --> 01:01:41,228 What about when you were young, Ted? 911 01:01:41,231 --> 01:01:44,065 What was your emotional state of mind? 912 01:01:44,702 --> 01:01:45,967 Confusion. 913 01:01:46,436 --> 01:01:51,072 I could never understand what made people want to be friends, 914 01:01:51,074 --> 01:01:54,543 or what made people attracted to one another, 915 01:01:54,545 --> 01:01:59,947 or what underlays social interactions. 916 01:02:00,617 --> 01:02:02,583 I'd watch people 917 01:02:03,119 --> 01:02:05,753 and see them feel, 918 01:02:07,490 --> 01:02:11,425 but, I don't know, I could never be like them. 919 01:02:11,427 --> 01:02:16,231 Do you remember the first time you felt the urges? 920 01:02:16,967 --> 01:02:18,967 I certainly fantasized. 921 01:02:18,969 --> 01:02:22,903 Well, as a young boy of 12 or 13, 922 01:02:22,905 --> 01:02:26,141 I'd encountered soft-core pornography, 923 01:02:26,143 --> 01:02:31,413 outside the home, local drug or grocery stores. 924 01:02:31,748 --> 01:02:32,748 Young boys, 925 01:02:32,750 --> 01:02:37,686 they explore the sideways and byways of their neighborhood. 926 01:02:37,788 --> 01:02:41,822 And in our neighborhood, people would dump their garbage, 927 01:02:41,824 --> 01:02:43,324 and from time to time, 928 01:02:43,327 --> 01:02:45,427 we'd come across books 929 01:02:45,429 --> 01:02:49,530 of a more graphic nature, 930 01:02:49,532 --> 01:02:52,967 detective magazines and so on. 931 01:02:53,302 --> 01:02:54,936 Well, I wanna emphasize this, 932 01:02:54,938 --> 01:02:58,340 the most damaging kind of pornography, 933 01:02:58,342 --> 01:03:01,242 I'm talking from real personal experience here, 934 01:03:01,244 --> 01:03:07,648 is the kind which involves violence and sexual violence. 935 01:03:07,885 --> 01:03:10,117 The wedding of those two forces, 936 01:03:10,119 --> 01:03:13,355 as I know only too well, 937 01:03:13,356 --> 01:03:14,556 well, it brings about behavior 938 01:03:14,557 --> 01:03:17,826 that is too terrible to describe. 939 01:03:18,094 --> 01:03:20,829 When did fantasy become a reality? 940 01:03:22,166 --> 01:03:23,030 As a teen, 941 01:03:23,032 --> 01:03:25,967 I was dealing with very strong inhibitions 942 01:03:25,969 --> 01:03:29,237 against violent and criminal behavior 943 01:03:29,239 --> 01:03:31,206 that had been conditioned 944 01:03:31,208 --> 01:03:34,208 and bred into me by my environment, 945 01:03:34,210 --> 01:03:38,813 the neighborhood, schools, church. 946 01:03:39,282 --> 01:03:43,518 It's a very difficult thing to describe, 947 01:03:43,686 --> 01:03:46,521 the sensation of reaching a point 948 01:03:46,523 --> 01:03:52,327 where I knew I couldn't control it anymore. 949 01:03:52,528 --> 01:03:56,565 The barriers I had learned as a child 950 01:03:56,567 --> 01:03:58,432 were not enough to hold me back 951 01:03:58,434 --> 01:04:02,871 from seeking out and harming somebody. 952 01:04:04,007 --> 01:04:08,577 How did you feel the first time you committed a murder? 953 01:04:08,811 --> 01:04:14,282 Even all these years later, it's difficult to talk about. 954 01:04:14,284 --> 01:04:16,384 Reliving it through talking is, 955 01:04:16,385 --> 01:04:17,786 well, difficult, to say the least, 956 01:04:17,788 --> 01:04:21,789 but I want you to understand what happened. 957 01:04:23,025 --> 01:04:27,027 It was like coming out of some 958 01:04:27,965 --> 01:04:32,099 horrible trance or dream. 959 01:04:32,469 --> 01:04:35,103 I can only liken it to being possessed 960 01:04:35,105 --> 01:04:39,106 by something so awful and alien, 961 01:04:39,108 --> 01:04:40,242 and then the next morning, 962 01:04:40,244 --> 01:04:41,809 waking up and remembering what happened, 963 01:04:41,811 --> 01:04:45,579 and realizing that, well, in the eyes of the law, 964 01:04:45,581 --> 01:04:48,215 and certainly in the eyes of God, 965 01:04:48,217 --> 01:04:50,485 you're responsible. 966 01:04:51,088 --> 01:04:55,155 Possession is an interesting word. 967 01:04:55,157 --> 01:04:59,327 What I did, it was like possessing them, physically, 968 01:04:59,329 --> 01:05:03,797 as one might possess a potted plant, 969 01:05:04,501 --> 01:05:06,268 or a painting, 970 01:05:06,570 --> 01:05:08,469 or a horse, 971 01:05:08,472 --> 01:05:12,773 owning, as it were, this person, 972 01:05:12,976 --> 01:05:18,413 and then taking ownership of the remains. 973 01:05:19,115 --> 01:05:21,949 But when I'd wake up in the morning 974 01:05:22,686 --> 01:05:25,786 and realize what I'd done with a clear mind, 975 01:05:25,789 --> 01:05:31,960 with all my essential ethical and moral feelings intact, 976 01:05:32,762 --> 01:05:35,996 well, it absolutely horrified me. 977 01:05:37,467 --> 01:05:40,668 The feelings of pleasure derived from what you did 978 01:05:40,670 --> 01:05:43,871 clearly outweighed any feelings of being horrified, 979 01:05:43,873 --> 01:05:46,474 because you repeated it so much. 980 01:05:48,010 --> 01:05:48,876 Maybe so. 981 01:05:48,878 --> 01:05:51,746 Also, when you compare people to possessions, 982 01:05:51,748 --> 01:05:56,284 well, I think it's hard to believe that you felt anything, 983 01:05:56,286 --> 01:05:57,686 certainly if in your mind, 984 01:05:57,688 --> 01:06:00,956 people are no different to material things. 985 01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:05,927 What's your point, Bob? 986 01:06:06,195 --> 01:06:08,228 I've spoken to your family, 987 01:06:08,231 --> 01:06:09,364 quite in depth, actually, 988 01:06:09,365 --> 01:06:11,666 and they were very candid. 989 01:06:11,735 --> 01:06:12,967 I don't know if you know this, 990 01:06:12,969 --> 01:06:15,570 but your aunt has a very interesting memory of you 991 01:06:15,572 --> 01:06:17,938 from when you were three years old. 992 01:06:17,940 --> 01:06:19,206 And what's that? 993 01:06:19,208 --> 01:06:22,443 She recalled waking up from a nap one day 994 01:06:22,445 --> 01:06:23,677 at your grandparents' house 995 01:06:23,679 --> 01:06:27,748 to find herself surrounded by knives from the kitchen. 996 01:06:27,751 --> 01:06:32,954 You were stood by your aunt's bed, smiling. 997 01:06:32,956 --> 01:06:35,356 Well, I can't say I remember that, Bob, 998 01:06:35,358 --> 01:06:38,293 so I'll have to take her word for it. 999 01:06:38,295 --> 01:06:41,528 If it's true, it's very telling, don't you think? 1000 01:06:41,530 --> 01:06:42,530 How so? 1001 01:06:42,532 --> 01:06:44,898 Well, in my line of work, 1002 01:06:44,900 --> 01:06:45,800 I'm always asked 1003 01:06:45,802 --> 01:06:49,036 "is serial killing down to nature or nurture?" 1004 01:06:49,271 --> 01:06:50,438 That incident with your aunt 1005 01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,606 would suggest it's down to nature, 1006 01:06:52,608 --> 01:06:55,809 that you were born with a darkness inside of you. 1007 01:06:55,811 --> 01:06:57,545 But the thing is this, 1008 01:06:57,547 --> 01:06:59,514 there are many people out there 1009 01:06:59,516 --> 01:07:02,217 who are born with darkness inside of them, 1010 01:07:02,219 --> 01:07:04,719 there are many people who suffer violence 1011 01:07:04,721 --> 01:07:07,655 or have terrible things happen to them as kids, 1012 01:07:07,657 --> 01:07:11,159 but they don't all grow up to be serial killers. 1013 01:07:11,228 --> 01:07:15,030 Is this going somewhere, Bob? 1014 01:07:15,798 --> 01:07:19,266 It's like the parable of the two wolves. 1015 01:07:19,268 --> 01:07:21,235 And what's that? 1016 01:07:21,237 --> 01:07:23,137 A father is talking to his son, 1017 01:07:23,139 --> 01:07:27,242 and he says there are two wolves inside of us, 1018 01:07:27,244 --> 01:07:28,809 always at battle. 1019 01:07:28,811 --> 01:07:32,280 The good wolf represents things like kindness, 1020 01:07:32,282 --> 01:07:33,414 bravery, and love. 1021 01:07:33,416 --> 01:07:38,552 The bad wolf represents things like greed, hatred, and fear. 1022 01:07:38,554 --> 01:07:41,822 The son stops and thinks about it for a second, 1023 01:07:41,824 --> 01:07:44,958 and then looks at his father and says, 1024 01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:46,728 "Which one wins?" 1025 01:07:46,730 --> 01:07:52,833 And the father quietly replies, "The one we feed." 1026 01:07:56,005 --> 01:08:00,240 And I guess you think I fed the bad wolf, right? 1027 01:08:00,476 --> 01:08:01,476 Yeah. 1028 01:08:01,478 --> 01:08:02,577 Is it nature or nurture? 1029 01:08:02,579 --> 01:08:05,813 A little of both for sure, but the bottom line is this, 1030 01:08:05,815 --> 01:08:10,150 we all have a choice about the person we become. 1031 01:08:10,519 --> 01:08:13,353 We create our own reality. 1032 01:08:17,694 --> 01:08:21,362 Ted Bundy, the notorious serial killer, 1033 01:08:21,363 --> 01:08:23,398 died today in the electric chair 1034 01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:26,533 after a night of weeping and praying. 1035 01:08:51,261 --> 01:08:53,360 Let me do that. 1036 01:08:54,831 --> 01:08:55,997 So, 1037 01:08:56,166 --> 01:09:00,001 your first press conference as the new chief. 1038 01:09:00,936 --> 01:09:01,836 You nervous? 1039 01:09:01,837 --> 01:09:04,404 Almost 20 years of dealing with the press, 1040 01:09:04,407 --> 01:09:06,173 you get used to it. 1041 01:09:06,443 --> 01:09:07,475 I'm proud of you. 1042 01:09:07,476 --> 01:09:10,145 You deserve this, and you've worked hard for it. 1043 01:09:10,146 --> 01:09:11,779 I couldn't have done it without you. 1044 01:09:11,780 --> 01:09:15,550 Mm, behind every great man is a great woman. 1045 01:09:15,551 --> 01:09:17,484 I know it's a cliche, 1046 01:09:17,487 --> 01:09:19,154 but it's true. 1047 01:09:20,524 --> 01:09:21,956 We're a team. 1048 01:09:21,957 --> 01:09:25,326 This isn't just my achievement, it's ours. 1049 01:09:26,061 --> 01:09:28,195 Can I confess something? 1050 01:09:28,797 --> 01:09:29,997 Yeah. 1051 01:09:31,534 --> 01:09:33,001 I'm relieved. 1052 01:09:33,002 --> 01:09:33,768 You are? 1053 01:09:33,770 --> 01:09:36,637 Mm-hmm, a desk job gets you off the streets, 1054 01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:39,541 which means I'm gonna sleep better at night 1055 01:09:39,542 --> 01:09:42,042 knowing you'll be safe. 1056 01:09:47,216 --> 01:09:48,649 What's wrong? 1057 01:09:48,652 --> 01:09:50,083 Nothing. 1058 01:09:51,121 --> 01:09:51,985 There you go. 1059 01:09:51,988 --> 01:09:53,387 Thanks, honey. 1060 01:10:13,777 --> 01:10:17,478 You've faced much criticism over the years 1061 01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:22,283 for your failure to apprehend the Green River Killer, 1062 01:10:22,284 --> 01:10:26,921 how do you think the victims' families might feel 1063 01:10:26,922 --> 01:10:31,158 watching your career go from strength to strength 1064 01:10:31,161 --> 01:10:34,328 while the person who murdered their daughters 1065 01:10:34,331 --> 01:10:36,163 is still at large? 1066 01:10:36,765 --> 01:10:37,998 Yes, 1067 01:10:38,001 --> 01:10:42,770 I've spent almost two decades haunted by this. 1068 01:10:42,905 --> 01:10:46,073 My career has progressed, yes, 1069 01:10:46,243 --> 01:10:49,010 but it hasn't stopped the nightmares. 1070 01:10:49,011 --> 01:10:55,416 My arrest and conviction rate is the highest on the force, 1071 01:10:55,752 --> 01:10:57,284 but there is not a day goes by 1072 01:10:57,287 --> 01:11:01,788 when I don't think about the one that got away 1073 01:11:02,458 --> 01:11:04,993 and all the pain he caused. 1074 01:11:07,764 --> 01:11:09,831 Which is why today, 1075 01:11:10,300 --> 01:11:11,932 I am announcing 1076 01:11:11,935 --> 01:11:15,069 that I will be reforming the Green River Task Force. 1077 01:11:17,506 --> 01:11:20,173 Considerable resources will be diverted 1078 01:11:20,176 --> 01:11:21,643 to resuming the investigation, 1079 01:11:21,645 --> 01:11:24,912 and I will be personally overseeing it. 1080 01:11:24,913 --> 01:11:28,983 I want the victims' families to know one thing, 1081 01:11:29,051 --> 01:11:33,520 I will not rest until the killer is behind bars. 1082 01:11:47,604 --> 01:11:49,537 You saw the conference on TV? 1083 01:11:49,538 --> 01:11:50,671 I did. 1084 01:11:50,774 --> 01:11:53,573 I know you wanted me to play it safe 1085 01:11:53,576 --> 01:11:54,975 and stay behind a desk, 1086 01:11:54,978 --> 01:11:59,180 but I just can't let this one go. 1087 01:11:59,682 --> 01:12:05,619 You gave years to this, I saw what it did to you, 1088 01:12:05,622 --> 01:12:06,554 I'm worried. 1089 01:12:06,555 --> 01:12:08,155 I just gotta get back out there 1090 01:12:08,158 --> 01:12:09,856 and nail that son of a bitch. 1091 01:12:09,859 --> 01:12:11,059 And you think if you find him, 1092 01:12:11,060 --> 01:12:13,828 you're gonna not be haunted anymore? 1093 01:12:13,829 --> 01:12:17,931 I don't know, but this isn't just about me. 1094 01:12:17,934 --> 01:12:21,168 You gave your life to public service, 1095 01:12:21,171 --> 01:12:24,204 you don't owe anyone anything. 1096 01:12:26,208 --> 01:12:31,878 If we'd have lost Deb, you'd want justice, wouldn't you? 1097 01:12:31,881 --> 01:12:33,314 Yes, of course, 1098 01:12:33,315 --> 01:12:38,118 but you being a martyr doesn't do anyone any favors. 1099 01:12:38,121 --> 01:12:41,521 When the case was active, you were here physically, 1100 01:12:41,524 --> 01:12:43,925 but your mind was miles away. 1101 01:12:43,926 --> 01:12:45,292 Is it a good thing for you 1102 01:12:45,295 --> 01:12:46,961 to fight for other people's families 1103 01:12:46,962 --> 01:12:48,762 when your own has to suffer for it? 1104 01:12:48,765 --> 01:12:52,966 You know I love you, but this is how I was made, 1105 01:12:52,969 --> 01:12:55,269 this is what you married. 1106 01:12:57,239 --> 01:12:58,840 Well, if you've made up your mind, 1107 01:12:58,841 --> 01:13:03,778 I guess there's nothing else for me to say. 1108 01:13:07,751 --> 01:13:09,550 Well, do you support me? 1109 01:13:10,686 --> 01:13:12,953 I can't do this without you. 1110 01:13:15,057 --> 01:13:19,092 I'll always be by your side, you know that. 1111 01:13:19,828 --> 01:13:21,162 And I hope when you find this guy, 1112 01:13:21,163 --> 01:13:25,832 you get the inner peace that you're seeking. 1113 01:13:40,449 --> 01:13:42,350 One of the victims, Marsha Intola, 1114 01:13:42,351 --> 01:13:45,853 the one who was posed with the fish and the wine... 1115 01:13:45,854 --> 01:13:46,654 Yeah? 1116 01:13:46,655 --> 01:13:49,122 She was stripped naked like the others, 1117 01:13:49,125 --> 01:13:50,957 but there was a dress found nearby 1118 01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:53,194 which was identified as hers. 1119 01:13:53,195 --> 01:13:55,363 There was a semen sample taken from the dress. 1120 01:13:55,364 --> 01:13:59,332 We also recovered semen from several of the victims. 1121 01:13:59,335 --> 01:14:02,235 I know we established many years back 1122 01:14:02,238 --> 01:14:04,939 that the samples were all from the same man, 1123 01:14:04,940 --> 01:14:07,408 we just did not have the technology 1124 01:14:07,409 --> 01:14:09,944 for a more detailed DNA profile. 1125 01:14:09,945 --> 01:14:12,113 So what can we do now? 1126 01:14:12,114 --> 01:14:15,515 Our advances mean that the sample from the discarded dress 1127 01:14:15,518 --> 01:14:18,219 will stand strong against the suspects 1128 01:14:18,220 --> 01:14:19,453 we have on our database. 1129 01:14:19,456 --> 01:14:21,889 We should also be able to get matches 1130 01:14:21,890 --> 01:14:26,394 on the semen samples retrieved from the other victims. 1131 01:14:27,130 --> 01:14:28,395 Okay. 1132 01:14:28,832 --> 01:14:30,331 Let's get it done. 1133 01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:46,279 These are the results? 1134 01:14:46,548 --> 01:14:47,681 The same guy's DNA matches 1135 01:14:47,684 --> 01:14:50,451 every sample recovered from the victims. 1136 01:14:50,552 --> 01:14:53,554 I don't even need to open this. 1137 01:14:55,958 --> 01:14:58,458 It's Gary Ridgway, isn't it? 1138 01:15:17,713 --> 01:15:19,514 Let's go get him. 1139 01:15:47,076 --> 01:15:48,775 Put your hands in the air. 1140 01:15:48,778 --> 01:15:53,280 One false move and I'll put two in the back of your head. 1141 01:15:53,283 --> 01:15:56,551 Slowly, put your hands behind your back. 1142 01:16:03,893 --> 01:16:05,626 Gotcha, asshole. 1143 01:16:14,436 --> 01:16:16,069 In the early 1980s, 1144 01:16:16,072 --> 01:16:18,805 the area around the Green River, south of Seattle, 1145 01:16:18,807 --> 01:16:19,907 was the site of one of 1146 01:16:19,908 --> 01:16:21,475 the most gruesome serial-killing sprees 1147 01:16:21,476 --> 01:16:22,676 this country has ever seen. 1148 01:16:22,679 --> 01:16:24,712 At least 49 women, police say, 1149 01:16:24,713 --> 01:16:26,380 mostly prostitutes and runaways, 1150 01:16:26,381 --> 01:16:28,783 disappeared or were found murdered 1151 01:16:28,784 --> 01:16:30,318 along this stretch of water. 1152 01:16:30,319 --> 01:16:32,920 Gary Leon Ridgway, now in custody, 1153 01:16:32,921 --> 01:16:34,287 was a prime suspect back then, 1154 01:16:34,289 --> 01:16:37,792 but police didn't have enough evidence to make a solid case. 1155 01:16:37,793 --> 01:16:39,726 Now, new technology, police say, 1156 01:16:39,729 --> 01:16:40,962 has linked Ridgway's DNA 1157 01:16:40,963 --> 01:16:42,997 with DNA found on three of the Green River victims, 1158 01:16:42,998 --> 01:16:47,100 while other evidence, police say, ties him to a fourth. 1159 01:16:47,103 --> 01:16:48,202 A team of scientists 1160 01:16:48,203 --> 01:16:51,037 spent more than 800 hours on the lab work. 1161 01:16:55,243 --> 01:16:58,845 They got you chained up pretty good there, don't they? 1162 01:17:00,382 --> 01:17:01,349 Yeah. 1163 01:17:01,350 --> 01:17:02,817 They must be concerned about 1164 01:17:02,819 --> 01:17:06,020 whether or not you're gonna run off, huh? 1165 01:17:07,756 --> 01:17:08,655 I guess so. 1166 01:17:08,658 --> 01:17:10,858 You wouldn't do that, would you? 1167 01:17:11,728 --> 01:17:13,194 Not this time. 1168 01:17:20,670 --> 01:17:22,802 Give us a minute, will you, Tom? 1169 01:17:22,805 --> 01:17:24,171 Sure. 1170 01:17:33,015 --> 01:17:36,516 I'm the lead investigator on this case. 1171 01:17:37,654 --> 01:17:38,452 I know. 1172 01:17:38,453 --> 01:17:40,421 That means you and I must've stood 1173 01:17:40,422 --> 01:17:42,922 in a lot of the same places. 1174 01:17:43,426 --> 01:17:45,559 I think we stood in every place. 1175 01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:47,761 What do you think about that? 1176 01:17:47,896 --> 01:17:51,532 You were on one side, I was on the other. 1177 01:17:51,833 --> 01:17:56,671 Where I killed them, you were the one who recovered them. 1178 01:17:57,539 --> 01:17:58,939 Now, 1179 01:17:58,940 --> 01:18:00,440 finally, 1180 01:18:00,443 --> 01:18:01,676 we meet. 1181 01:18:01,677 --> 01:18:02,909 Yeah. 1182 01:18:04,380 --> 01:18:07,881 I've been working on this case a long time. 1183 01:18:08,751 --> 01:18:12,586 Looks like I've caused you a few gray hairs. 1184 01:18:13,422 --> 01:18:18,391 So, Gary, you've been pretty forthcoming so far, 1185 01:18:18,594 --> 01:18:21,929 but do I know everything there is to know? 1186 01:18:22,030 --> 01:18:24,532 Yeah, I'm not holding anything back. 1187 01:18:26,636 --> 01:18:28,069 Can you really look me in the eye 1188 01:18:28,070 --> 01:18:31,639 and tell me you're not holding anything back? 1189 01:18:36,612 --> 01:18:39,947 I haven't been, um, 1190 01:18:39,948 --> 01:18:40,847 you know-- 1191 01:18:40,850 --> 01:18:44,885 Wait a minute, your eyes are going back and forth. 1192 01:18:47,422 --> 01:18:48,988 I'm not lying to you. 1193 01:18:48,990 --> 01:18:50,591 Yes, you are. 1194 01:18:51,060 --> 01:18:52,960 The thing is, Gary, 1195 01:18:52,962 --> 01:18:55,595 you and I can be enemies 1196 01:18:56,198 --> 01:18:58,298 or we can be buddies, 1197 01:18:58,667 --> 01:19:00,935 that's your choice. 1198 01:19:00,936 --> 01:19:02,869 If you're gonna keep lying to me, 1199 01:19:02,872 --> 01:19:04,805 then we'll be enemies. 1200 01:19:05,140 --> 01:19:08,641 So, what you gonna do? 1201 01:19:10,779 --> 01:19:12,712 I don't know what you want. 1202 01:19:12,715 --> 01:19:14,614 The bodies. 1203 01:19:17,787 --> 01:19:20,154 There are more, aren't there? 1204 01:19:24,961 --> 01:19:26,159 Yes. 1205 01:19:27,796 --> 01:19:32,600 So, how are we gonna work together? 1206 01:19:33,136 --> 01:19:36,036 You want me to tell you where they are? 1207 01:19:36,037 --> 01:19:37,304 Yes. 1208 01:19:37,707 --> 01:19:40,807 We're gonna find every last one of them. 1209 01:19:46,649 --> 01:19:47,881 Alright. 1210 01:19:49,551 --> 01:19:52,953 My memory is hazy, but I'll try. 1211 01:19:52,954 --> 01:19:54,220 Yes, you will. 1212 01:20:19,015 --> 01:20:22,615 We should've gotten some champagne to celebrate. 1213 01:20:22,618 --> 01:20:26,787 That's alright, I'm just happy to be here with you both. 1214 01:20:26,956 --> 01:20:28,855 How do you feel, Dad? 1215 01:20:28,858 --> 01:20:30,157 Relieved. 1216 01:20:30,393 --> 01:20:34,662 But the hardest part of it all... memories. 1217 01:20:34,663 --> 01:20:38,832 You'll get some closure now that you've caught the guy. 1218 01:20:41,069 --> 01:20:45,439 Yeah, Dad, it's finally over. 1219 01:21:41,863 --> 01:21:44,564 Bob, what you doing here? 1220 01:21:44,567 --> 01:21:47,434 Thought I'd pay you a visit given the recent headlines. 1221 01:21:47,435 --> 01:21:51,104 I stopped by the house, Sandra said you might be here. 1222 01:21:51,106 --> 01:21:53,006 It's good to see you. 1223 01:21:53,074 --> 01:21:54,507 Been a while, huh? 1224 01:21:54,510 --> 01:21:55,943 Yeah, it has. 1225 01:21:55,944 --> 01:21:58,177 I think congratulations are in order. 1226 01:21:58,180 --> 01:22:00,113 Oh, it was a team game, 1227 01:22:00,115 --> 01:22:01,582 you were part of that team, 1228 01:22:01,583 --> 01:22:03,817 you should give yourself a pat on the back. 1229 01:22:03,819 --> 01:22:07,688 I think we can all be thankful for the advances in DNA. 1230 01:22:07,689 --> 01:22:09,189 True. 1231 01:22:09,190 --> 01:22:11,257 So, what now? 1232 01:22:11,260 --> 01:22:12,725 Time to move on. 1233 01:22:12,929 --> 01:22:17,430 Ridgway's behind bars, the healing can begin. 1234 01:22:19,467 --> 01:22:24,337 You know, there's one thing I keep asking myself. 1235 01:22:24,340 --> 01:22:27,408 How do we stop this thing from happening again? 1236 01:22:27,409 --> 01:22:28,542 There are a multitude of things 1237 01:22:28,543 --> 01:22:30,644 we could do to make a difference, 1238 01:22:30,645 --> 01:22:34,213 greater education from a psychology standpoint, 1239 01:22:34,216 --> 01:22:37,618 spotting the warning signs of psychopathy early on. 1240 01:22:37,619 --> 01:22:40,287 From a law enforcement standpoint, we have 1241 01:22:40,288 --> 01:22:42,823 advances in DNA and a better network 1242 01:22:42,824 --> 01:22:45,792 of communication between the agencies. 1243 01:22:46,028 --> 01:22:50,797 But, maybe I'm getting soft in my old age, 1244 01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:52,565 I just can't help thinking about it 1245 01:22:52,568 --> 01:22:54,835 from a philosophical standpoint. 1246 01:22:55,237 --> 01:22:56,235 I'm intrigued. 1247 01:22:56,238 --> 01:22:59,907 Well, if those of us who are positive in our intentions 1248 01:22:59,908 --> 01:23:01,975 spread enough love and light, 1249 01:23:01,978 --> 01:23:03,877 maybe there won't be so much darkness 1250 01:23:03,878 --> 01:23:05,011 for evil to maneuver in. 1251 01:23:05,014 --> 01:23:08,181 I never had you down as an idealist, Bob. 1252 01:23:08,184 --> 01:23:10,016 I never used to be. 1253 01:23:10,019 --> 01:23:12,987 But the times, they are a changing. 1254 01:23:13,622 --> 01:23:15,021 You know what? 1255 01:23:20,328 --> 01:23:22,563 I think you're right. 90531

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