Original subtitles

Hello there.

I'm Nathan.

Yes. I have a speech and ending.

Once you pop down next to your brother right there.

That's the bling, right?

Right.

My name is Dr.

Barber.

I've been doing family medicine therapy for about three weeks

now. Do you guys mind if I turn on the camera?

What's the camera for?

Oh, it's just, you know, that's how I keep my records. It's like a note

system. It's private.

Just think of it as like an electronic notepad.

Okay. Yeah.

So let's see.

I got a call from your parents about setting up this appointment.

Thank you both for coming.

Amanda.

Yeah, do you want to tell me a little bit about yourself?

Maybe, Nathan, we start with you.

I'm just here to support her.

That's nice.

Cool. Do you want to tell me anything else? Do you work out? Do you play

Is there a TV show you really like?

I work out a little bit, but I'm just here to do things. I just make sure she

feels comfortable.

Okay.

Got to watch out for my little sister.

Hi, I'm Kenzie. Do you want to tell me a little bit about yourself?

Introduce yourself to me.

I'm Kenzie, and this is my first therapy session.

My zodiac is a Cancer.

Okay.

I really enjoy reading novels, and I love

horseback riding.

And going hiking is really fun, too.

Yeah, I don't really know what to say. That's great. That's

wonderful. It's nice to meet both of you.

And so, yeah, obviously I am a family therapist. So

what would you say?

the reason of your visit today nothing you said that you were here to be

supportive of kenzie which is so beautiful but um if you had to put into

why kenzie's here and why you're needing to support her what would you

um oh she's back in strange for for

a while now okay just no parents aren't liking that and uh

I'm not sure if she's been to that school. I think it's been hard for her

through it.

I'm not really sure why.

I think we have a good life at home, I think.

But, yeah, it's just been different.

Okay. Well, Kenzie, do you know what your brother is talking about? He says

you've been a little strange lately. Do you agree with that? Do you disagree?

How do you feel about that word?

closed and a few months ago that

kind of changed a little bit and I guess

I started seeing him differently. Okay.

Seeing him differently how?

You say it changed, did something happen?

Not yet.

Never.

You have to tell her the rest of that.

It's not important.

It's okay. You know, if Kenzie feels that it's important, you know, I'd love

hear about it.

I'm going to add to this.

Dr. Farber said it's a safe place, and we've never talked about it, so maybe

we should.

All right.

Okay.

So when I, I didn't knock, so I guess it

was my fault.

Uh -huh.

And then I opened the door, and I saw him.

pleasuring okay and I didn't I

didn't look away right away and I

guess lately I've been seeing him differently kind

of going back to that moment when I saw him

doing that

I think she was in there.

But you remember this incident?

Yeah. Is that about how you remember it?

Maybe she didn't knock, just kind of came in and maybe froze a little bit?

I didn't notice it there at first.

Uh -huh.

And by the time I saw her, she was... She

had some of her clothes off. Uh -huh.

Yeah, by that point I was right. I was actually coming.

Climaxing? And so my last me scene was her naked.

That's interesting.

Yeah. Okay.

I mean, I guess I left this little part out. He

didn't notice me right away.

I didn't look away right away.

I guess I got kind of turned on from seeing him

do that. He didn't see me at first, so then I thought,

would he notice if I just acted on that?

So I got undressed and...

Touching myself and watching him, it felt like it was only

for, like, a couple of seconds, but it felt like so much longer.

By the time he noticed me, I, like,

was inside myself.

Mm -hmm.

Okay.

Well, that's, you know, that's sort of an event.

Yeah, that's worth noticing.

Why did you feel like it was irrelevant, Nathan?

I just thought we were okay after that.

Right. Yeah, I didn't think it was a big deal.

Just something that happened.

Just something that happened.

But since then, Kenzie, you've been feeling differently, and Nathan, you've

been... I may have been avoiding her a lot more.

Okay. I knew it.

Sorry.

All right. You didn't feel anything?

I know it's... Am I fucked up? No, no, no, no, honey, don't.

Not at all.

You know... I kind of saw you as I came, so I may have felt something, but

it's not right where we're going, so I just kind of...

I put it really far down.

You know, modern nuclear families live together.

And, you know, things like this happen.

It's not uncommon by any stretch of the imagination.

And, you know, it doesn't have to be a negative experience. I know that a lot

people, some people, not necessarily you two, can sort of feel shame or they can

feel anxious when something like this happens.

But really, you can just kind of push through it.

And really, you know, you two are still living together. I'd like to kind of

help you work through this, what if it happens again?

You know, I'm assuming it's still kind of tight quarters.

Are you two sharing a bathroom then, or?

Yeah. Okay.

All right.

I just want us to be close how we used to be close. Like, he taught me how to

ride a bike.

Like, I miss my big brother.

And I feel kind of embarrassed that that happened. And I

shouldn't have let my

sexual feelings.

take over what was actually right, which wouldn't have been to sit there and

watch you.

I'm sorry.

Something that's worth kind of talking about is maybe Kenzie, your... Did you

want to add something, Nathan? I'm sorry if I cut you off. No, it's just I

really love that moment so much.

I may have been feeling some stuff.

Mm -hmm. Because as I was coming, it was... I haven't seen that many naked

girls. And also, growing up with her kind of made it, for some reason, a

harder.

It was... Okay.

That's interesting.

So, Kinsey, let's talk a little bit about your sexuality.

You know, I know that a lot of times the focus is on boys' sexualities and stuff

like that.

But I'm very interested and curious about that you decided to kind of keep

there. Have you been having any sort of

erotic dreams lately?

Maybe?

The other night, I woke up and

I felt like a wet spot.

on my sheets, and I was just wearing panties, but I

had soap through my panties, and I

guess I was just dreaming of catching

himself, and I thought, what would it be like

if he did that to me?

You know, how good it would feel if he was

joking himself inside of me.

We come from a really, really modest household, and

I used to dress pretty conservative.

But ever since the event...

I find myself doing things.

Can you be more, let's backtrack just a little tiny bit.

So had you had like a dream or were you fantasizing at night or what exactly

happened with that when you woke up with your question?

I woke up suddenly.

I saw that there was that wet spot there, and I just kind of

went back into my thoughts, and all I thought about in that dream was him

using me and... Using you?

Yeah.

Like, reusing me.

Okay.

Like,

were you doing something, and he was... It's warmer here.

Yeah, like, you know, we have chores around the house, and it was just a

situation where, you know, I'd be loading up the dishwasher, and he'd be

loading me up the cock.

Oh, okay.

Just like that.

Like, he'd be watching TV, and I would just come along and start sucking him

off, or I just would, like, tease him, like, when I walked up the stairs,

and I knew he was behind me, and then he would just grab me by the back of my

neck and just start pounding my pussy.

Am I saying too much? No, no, it's okay.

Nathan, did you know about this part of it?

I didn't know the extent of it.

Okay. I mean, I saw her in the bathroom, and I know she's been wearing smaller

outfits. I kind of was trying to avoid her a lot more.

I was trying to look as much as I could because, yeah, that was a

lot.

Okay. Well, now that you know about it, that it's more out in the open, how does

it make you feel?

Um, I don't know if I want to say.

Okay. You know, Kenzie has been very forthcoming and shared quite a few

and I am a professional.

Um,

I, I, I.

Let it out.

It's okay.

I like seeing her little outfits.

And if I said it wasn't on my mind constantly, I mean, just

like seeing her naked right there and then just seeing her in those little

skirts and just watching her bend over.

And apparently she was just not wearing panties anymore. She just stopped that.

Oh. And it looks just so good.

And so I have to do that over and over and over again, trying to hold my shit

together for a little bit longer.

Maintain the calm.

Yeah.

Well, you know, what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing is that you are two

siblings who really just care about each

other, you know?

There's probably a lot of hormones going on in a very small space.

And, you know, I think that part of the reason that you were trying to

do what you're trying to do is because you do care about each other

very deeply.

You know, it seems like it's been difficult for Nathan, that maybe there's

shame there, some embarrassment over something that you haven't dealt with

before, which, let me assure you, is actually...

very common.

And in that it's common, it's pretty normal.

And Kenzie, I feel like we've opened a floodgate with you. I feel so vulnerable

right now.

That's okay.

And I do want to reiterate that this is a safe space that you two are in right

now. Nothing goes past that door.

It's all closed off. And, you know, this is sort of a situation where you two

can explore things and not have to feel so caged up, you know, and not have to

be worried about, what does it mean that I've noticed that my sister isn't

wearing any panties? You know, it just, all it means is that she's not wearing

panties. All it means that you've noticed that your sister isn't wearing

is that she doesn't like them. And that's totally fine, too.

You can dress however you like.

And if that has an effect on Nathan, that's okay.

Totally fine.

So what I would like to do with both of you is kind of like try to maybe work

past some of the guilt and the shame so that you can have a more relationship.

Not a less relationship where we're always trying to like close things off

be at odds or, you know, maybe we're...

Acting out a little bit because we don't know another way to get the attention

that we want because we can't just ask for it.

Maybe it's okay if we renegotiate this relationship for now and let it change

up a little bit. How does that sound to both of you?

Like it's worth a shot? Yeah.

Yeah?

Be able to climb in your bed when I have a bad dream.

Like, I want to be able to tell you everything.

Like, if I hooked up with a guy and I, like, didn't like something or I liked

something, I want to be able to have that closeness and that sharing thing

again. Mm -hmm.

Tell me, too.

I feel like we're in a safe place.

You want to try?

Yeah.

Okay, ready to take the next step?

Let's take that step together.

Does that sound okay?

Yeah.

So, Kenzie, I would like to keep talking to you. I feel like

there's a lot that's been unsaid. Maybe a lot is being acted, but not a lot is

being spoken.

And Nathan, I... think that it might benefit you a little bit if while I'm

talking to your sister, if you just sort of let yourself explore.

For example, if you feel like touching her, whether it's just stroking

her hair or her breath or her vulva, that you kind of allow yourself

to do that without feeling guilty just until the end of the session.

Just for a very brief period of time.

You just let yourself go.

Yeah. And kind of, you know, you'll know what you feel. You know, if you just

stop with this, like, real, like, I feel like it's a little bit of a facade.

A little bit of a barrier here.

And, you know, this is your sister. You don't have to have that barrier with

her. You don't have to protect yourself from her. You don't have to.

deny yourself in her presence. You know, she's family. She wants you to be

happy. And it sounds like she enjoys it too.

You know?

So, Kenzie, do you have consent to letting Nathan explore a little bit?

I mean, anything to get back to where we were.

Okay.

So, Nathan, I'm just going to talk to Kenzie.

And anything that you feel like doing,

Don't worry about it.

Pretend that I'm not here and I want you to assume that she's okay with whatever

you want to try to do.

You can stop them if you want to, but I want you to assume that everything is

okay.

It'll be kind of like a game of red light, green light, only you don't have

say green light.

Oh, yeah, don't worry about the cameras.

Again, it's just note -taking. It's all just going right into a file on my

computer. No one's going to see it.

Okay, is it standard for actors?

Yeah, I mean, it's standard for me, certainly. My little wrist gets so

you know?

Seriously, I can do anything I want.

I am saying, and Kenzie is saying, that you can do anything that you want.

Okay? Okay.

All right?

I want you to just let go.

Just, can you take a deep breath? Good boy.

Just, you know, I just want you to forget about those vital rules,

and I want you to just focus on your enjoyment, your mental health,

your indulgence, okay?

And that's okay. That's a good thing.

All right.

Okay. All right.

Break.

So, Kenzie, you said you've been dressing a little bit more provocatively

around the house.

Is that specifically for your brother's fulfillment, or where is it going?

I wanted to see if I could get him that feeling.

Okay.

So it was a positive experience for you overall?

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Could you put into words specifically what you enjoyed about it?

Or did it feel empowering?

Was it just hot?

Was it...

It's thrilling.

It's kind of a mix of everything. I mean, the fact that we're so close and

I can really feel like I can open up to him.

The fact that he's my brother, you know, it's not

typical.

Well, you know, it is more common than you would think. I mean, especially for

me. Working in family therapy.

You know, it's the kind of thing that brings people in, but it's not really

kind of thing that has to be corrected or, you know, dealt with in some way.

Mostly what it is is just alleviating those feelings of guilt so that people

get rid of that baggage. Because I don't want you to have a bunch of baggage.

I don't want you to internalize this and have it fester.

becomes something else like that, you know? You want to get it out there.

But, you know, tell me what else has been going on with you. Are you still in

school? Like, are you doing well?

How are your other social relationships?

Everything's going pretty good.

I just made first string in soccer.

Oh, congratulations.

So I definitely am hoping to get

You know, goals and everything.

Score, right?

Yeah, I made honor roll.

Oh, congratulations again. That's a big achievement.

It is, but I was aiming for high honor roll, you know?

Like, I guess I'm just, like, an overachiever. I mean, that's still

be very, very proud of, you know?

I mean, I never made honor roll.

Really? But you're a doctor.

I am, you know?

I wasn't really super focused until I got older and could study what I wanted

to, you know.

But, yeah, but that's wonderful.

That's wonderful.

I mean, you can do your homework, show that focus, you know, just be really

driven.

I mean, one of the issues was my brother used to help me with my homework, and

since he's been avoiding me, I almost got a D.

Oh, okay.

All right.

So.

Maybe there have been some impacts on grace and things.

Yeah. I mean, I guess I've just, my mind's been

other places.

I've been focusing all my energy on trying to arouse them.

Yeah. Instead of working on myself.

And I think this is just the first time I've really, like, said it out loud.

Because I've always been alone.

very political situation I've never told anyone about it so I think now

that I'm getting everything out in the open I think that's like really helped

you know like you know I know that a lot of times especially parents

tend to think that you know sexual activity is going to be distracting in

way but really it's just it can focus you it just it's a relief you know it's

Keeps you from being constantly distracted.

And I really do think that if you and your brother spend more, like, quality

time together, it's going to have a very positive impact.

Well, do you think it'll bring us closer if we keep coming to these sessions?

I think it's worth trying. What I'd like to do is just give you two some sort

of, like, homework assignments.

You know what I mean?

Yeah. So, like, things that you can do to sort of, like, stay mentally healthy.

Throughout the week, it'll help you to connect.

And then we can kind of check in here and see how that's all going.

And so maybe, you know, someday it isn't really necessary anymore. Or if you

just want to talk to me about yourself or whatever you want to do. I'm still

getting to know you as well.

So what things could we do at home to really help us get through

this?

I do want to talk.

to your brother some more, but generally in a situation like this, because

again, it isn't uncommon at all.

A lot of times what we'll do is we'll sort of designate a period of time where

these behaviors can just kind of like take place unchecked, you know? So

whatever we want to do within this portal.

And then beyond that, we don't have to be distracted or concerned about

anything.

And so I think that's what I want to try with you two. First of all, in

sessions, you two can sort of explore some more.

And then we'll sort of like take that more and more into the real world. So

maybe one week, he is allowed to touch you under your clothes.

Or maybe we make a rule that you're allowed to go into his bed whenever you

to. Something like that. And just take it one step at a time.

until you can feel more comfortable doing these things on your own.

Does that kind of make sense?

No, it totally does.

It's like break it up into chunks so it's manageable until it becomes a

until it becomes a lifestyle.

Okay.

So, you know, Kenzie, is this isolated to your relationship with your

brother, stepbrother, or is it...

Does it extend to other people that you know?

I mean, I've always been really promiscuous.

Okay.

I mean, I can find sexuality in just about anything or anyone.

Men, women, my brother.

Okay.

I guess I'm just really...

turned on all the time.

Is that normal for someone my age? You know, all that matters is whether or not

it's normal for you.

You know, you'll be in the world and a lot of times people will throw around

diagnoses as insults, but really it's just like a vocabulary word for, you

describing you. It's like saying that you're bubbly or that you're, you know,

maybe a little melancholy.

You like that?

Yeah. Well, fine.

Have you, uh, experimented at all with goodness before, or?

I mean, when I was younger, me and one of my best friends, we played this

game in our room called college.

Oh, okay. And it, um, we would, like, practice for,

you know, for when we got older and started doing things.

Um, can you be specific? Me.

I know it can be a little awkward sometimes if you only know the street

for these things.

But, you know, you can totally tell me. I know all the lingo that you give me.

Well, we had this game in college, and her mom would think that

we were downstairs in her room watching a movie, but really we were

experimenting.

I remember the first time we did it, we were watching a vampire movie, and

she started kissing my neck, and

we started letting our hands on her, and before I knew it,

it was a regular thing where we'd scissor each other and grind

on top of one another.

Then her mom walked in one day, and that was the end of that.

Yeah, she said I was a bad influence. I don't know why, though. Like, I'm a good

person. You know, it can be very shocking for a parent to see someone

you know, if you don't think of them as having a sexuality.

But, you know, it's totally fine, and what's important is that you know you

didn't do anything wrong, and you're not going to let it change you, you know?

Just because one person...

Maybe she doesn't want to be too conscious about sexuality.

It doesn't mean anything about you.

Okay.

Yeah. I think she's just old school.

She doesn't get it.

And that's her journey, you know. I still fantasize about that, too.

About your friends?

Yeah.

Are you two still in contact or not so much?

Not so much. Not so much. Okay.

Bye.

Of course. That's what we're here for.

Therapy doesn't work if you're not open.

I was thinking, would it be like to have both of them at the same time?

That could be interesting.

I've never done it before. I've seen it in movies.

What was your friend's name?

Alexa. Alexa?

Okay. That's a beautiful name.

How about, do you want to maybe do some role -playing, and I could kind of,

like, play that role for you of Alexa?

Do you think that would help? I think it's a bit boring.

I do think it might help.

A lot of therapy is still kind of trial and error, but I really do think that it

might benefit you to kind of live these things out, see that it's not that big

of a deal, enjoy yourself, and not have to worry about someone's mom walking in.

You're a miracle worker, Dr.

Barber. Thank you.

I really appreciate it.

So with that, How long ago did that happen, like a few weeks ago, months?

Oh, um, this was a few years ago.

Okay, so it's been a little while.

I've had this fantasy in my head.

Now that I kind of, you know, know what everything is, I've kind of just

been reliving that in my dreams.

Mm -hmm.

The one with the fantasies about my brother.

Right.

Thinking about what it'd be like to share his talk with her and

hate him that day.

You know?

I feel so embarrassed.

Well, you really don't have to feel embarrassed.

No. And I think it's like anything else. You just practice and take the time to

put in the work to not feel embarrassed.

I really...

I really do think it's going to benefit you.

Okay.

It's just practice. That's all it is. You know, we'll start off with you doing

it every week.

Pretty soon it will be every day.

And eventually it will just kind of be how you are. It will just kind of be how

your life is.

You understand?

Yes. Yes, doctor.

Yes.

Do you help all your patients like this?

Well, you know, if someone needs this sort of therapy, I'm certainly open to

I do a few different types of behavioral therapies.

I would actually say that this is one of the more common ones.

Really? Yeah, I know.

So many problems are sort of like sexual in nature.

You can just kind of like work through that. And a lot of the problem isn't

really sex.

It's just people's attitudes towards them.

And if you can kind of fix that, you can fix someone's attitude towards their

own sexuality, it almost always comes back into a much higher quality of life.

Can you fix that stuff?

You can certainly try to help them fix yourselves.

I don't like to try anything.

Right, bro?

I can see that you are... Still not wearing the panties.

I find panties really... Constricting?

Yeah. I can see that.

Yeah, I feel like it's more natural just to have, you know, the

breeze come out under there, under your skirt.

And it's fun to tease the boys at school.

Oh, gosh, I hope I don't come pop out in there.

I was thinking maybe I want to see what her mouth feels like. Oh.

Well. Because you're already down there. I figured if you, you know. Oh, you

want to see what your sister's mouth feels like? Yeah. Yeah? Well, what's a

healthy way of asking her about that then?

Do you want me to suck on my cock?

Is that the next step of the process?

Well, it depends on whether or not you do want to suck on your cock.

Would you say that that's a yes or is that a no or a maybe?

I really wanted to throw one thing.

So a yes?

Yes. That sounds like a yes. And look at that, like magic, there it is.

Do you

feel

about

trying something like this at home?

timeframe. I could, I could, I could do that. You could make that work.

I could.

I feel like a lot of times it's being given permission to do the things that

want to do anyway.

That can be very helpful.

Oh my goodness.

Take that couch.

Oh, my God.

Mackenzie, how do you feel about us getting you undressed?

Are you feeling okay? Do you want to keep your top on a little bit?

It's okay if you want to keep it on so you can kind of, you know.

Yeah, just start out slow.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that, and I'm very proud of you for saying

that. Thank you.

This looks like I play college now.

Thank you.

Okay.

I feel like somebody should start a dream journal.

Mom, would you look me in the eyes while you do it?

I'm going to put your shoulders down.

You're really getting me to open up, doctor.

Oh, my.

Oh, my.

That's a hard G -spot. Jesus Christ.

You are very deep. You are very fucking tight.

Is anyone watching you get off?

Creamy, thick, hot load.

Anywhere you want.

I can do anything.

I can do anything.

I need a freeze.

Do whatever you want.

Does that feel good when she sucks your cock?

How do you want me, bro?

Get it off. Get it off.

This one's the weak link, bro. I'll do it every day if you want.

Let's return that cute old sweater as much as we can.

Oh, my God.

My brother's hot, thick load.

oh wow

don't

pass out i'm not that kind of doctor

You both made so much progress.

Are you feeling good about what you did here?

Yeah. Yeah? Yeah.

Well, I am very proud of both of you, you know, and I think that this week

we should pick a day where you guys can do this. Maybe have a whole day in the

afternoon.

What do you think?

What's a good day for both of you? A Tuesday maybe?

Any day is good for me at this point. Any day is good for you.

What's your preference?

Tuesday would be nice. Tuesday would be nice. Okay, so let's say Tuesday is free

expression day.

in the, you know, Bronson household.

Does that sound good?

Sounds great.

Okay, so I have a promise from you.

Promise. I have a promise from you.

Okay. Okay, good.

Well, gosh, there is a restroom just down the hall to the right.

If you two would like to get a little cleaned up. Kenzie, I think you have a

little something.

Well, you'll see it. You'll see it.

I'm going to go home with it.

Okay.

I'm proud of you for saying so.

And I'm trusting that you'll be supportive in explaining anything to

might have any questions.

Yeah. All right.

Thank you so much, Doctor.

Of course. You're a miracle worker. Thank you very much. If you guys are

to Michigan next week, you can make an appointment with Donna on the way out.

Donna?

Thank you, Doctor.

That's the best I've ever heard.

You ready, bro? Yeah, let's go. Yeah, you guys can just, like, grab your socks

and, uh... Will you help me with my homework tonight? Yes, done. I have a

task to get to study today.

Let's go get some data ready.

Yeah.

Get that black light.

Mom? You're ready to go.

Okay, I'm getting up.

I'm going to get lovely to meet you. Lovely to meet you, too.

Lovely to meet you.

Thank you, doctor.

So proud of both of you.

Thank you, doctor.

Oh, my goodness.