Original subtitles

Before I left Giuliard, a kind of

unusual thing happened which was that

I was in my second year. I was in group

12.

But the fourth year class

which consisted of Val Kilmer, Linda

Koslowski, a whole bunch of really

wonderful actors, they had kicked out so

many guys

that they didn't have enough guys to

play the parts in the plays that they

did in their fourth year.

So I got recruited

from the secondyear class which they had

never done before apparently in the

history of Giuliard and put into a

fourth year production. So I played Val

Kilmer's father in a production of the

wood demon which was Czechov's first

version of Anavana.

So I had a fat pad and a beard and I was

playing this this you know Russian

character and

so I did the final performances you know

I was in that production and all these

agents came

and then uh one night I get this message

that this

manager wanted to meet me after this

performance and I was like

playing a godfather with a fat pad and a

beard. I mean, why why would a manager

want to meet me? And so, he kind of

said, I I want to represent you. But at

this point, he was literally working out

of like his flat, you know, his

apartment in New York. Didn't have an

office, didn't have staff,

but we kind of, you know, he we kind of

worked together a little bit. And so, he

was my first my first manager. I screded

around for a while. I didn't have an

agent. The the whole time I was working

at the at the public theater, I didn't

have an agent.

And I really I mean there were like a

couple of times when I met some flaky

freaky people who were like you know I'm

an agent but our Canadian office is

really doing the work in New York and so

we're and they were sort of maybe

interested but it all turned out to be

complete horseshit and they were

absolutely full of [ __ ] Never lifted a

finger. Never did anything. And

I really started to to sort of do what

I'm always encouraging people to do

which is to to write letters. I I

started writing letters to casting

directors, to directors, to theater

companies, to directors who were doing

shows out of town. And I I uh I began to

get auditions that way. And then you

know the other way that we we get

auditions are I mean I I remember when I

was working at the Shakespeare festival

and I'd started out in the stock room

and then they moved me up and someone

found out I think it was one of the

girls in Joe's office found out that

because my mother used to be a private

secretary I knew how to work a

switchboard

and Dolores who worked the switchboard

at the public theater nobody could

replace her at lunch because nobody

could work the switchboard. So they

asked me, "Could I work the

switchboard?" And I was like, "Yeah." So

I started replacing Dolores at lunch.

Now Dolores sat at the stage door where

all the actors and the directors and

everybody came in to rehearse the plays

that were going on at the public. And

one of the people who came through while

I was sitting there and I used to for

weeks I sat there at lunch, you know,

New York Shakespeare Festival One

Moment. New York Shakespeare Festival

One Moment. Yes, I'll connect you now. I

mean, I I just knew my mom taught me how

to work a switchboard.

Dez Mackenov came walking back and forth

because he was directing a play at the

public. Dez I knew because he had

directed a play at Giuliard and then

ultimately he directed the very first

play in that I did in Central Park the

previous summer. So, he was doing

another play. Finally, one day he just

stopped. He said, "What the hell are you

doing here?" I said, "Well, I you know,

I didn't want to wait on tables and Joe

hired me a stock room and now I'm doing

this." and he was like, "God, there's a

friend of mine who's doing a play at

Soho Rep that I think you you might be

right for. Do is it okay if I I tell him

about you?" I said, "Yeah, sure." So, a

couple days later, I got this audition

for this play called Barbarians.

And I got it. And that would have never

happened if Dez hadn't been walking by

my face while I was working the

switchboard. So that's also the way that

you know you you can either rely on an

agent who maybe hasn't even seen you

work except for your showcase. I'm

always stunned when I'm told by actors

that yeah, I'm doing this play, but my

agent didn't even come or yeah, I can't

get my agent to talk to me on the phone.

And there's this weird power thing that

goes on between, you know, actors that

are starting out who feel like, well, I

can't really say anything because if I

lose my agent, I'm not going to have an

agent. But your agent's not doing [ __ ]

for you now,

you know, why do you why do you care

about not being able to confront them

about being able to say what you know,

what's going on? Because it is supposed

to be about a relationship and it's

supposed to be about somebody who

believes in your talent is supposed to

try to be building, you know, a career,

help build a career for you. So, I've

never quite understood the the dynamics

of some of that,

but I I wasn't lucky enough to have an

agent for, you know, quite a while. Um,

and then I finally got an agent at

William Morris when I when I came back

from doing about three and a half years

of regional theater when I I went

through a period where I I I uh I just

realized I wasn't good enough to play in

the leagues I wanted to play in. So I

went off and I started doing a lot of

regional work and came back to New York

and and somehow got an agent.

I think it depends on what kind of

career you want in terms of whether you

staying in school or having more

training will have value. I can tell you

that the way I look at it, what I

learned at Giuliard

was stamina.

What I learned was technique.

And that's come into enormous play in my

life

because it is absolutely true that when

you're in the long run of a play

and you know the great say, "Oh, you're

lucky if you feel it four times a week,

if it just connects

to you and the audience and you just

feel like, wow, that just I just really

served this play tonight

and the rest of the time

it's technique

and you can tell the actors that don't

have it and the actors that do

and I think that if you want a lengthy

sustained career in the living theater

then it is essential

that you have that

particular pocket of energy that is

absolutely required

to have a life in the theater

in which you

treat yourself, your body like an

athlete

that you don't have to have if you want

a career in film.

And you know, look, there's nothing

wrong with it. You know, I always find

it very funny when I when I, you know,

you talk to actors and particularly

young actors and they'll talk these

highutin, you know, stories about the

kind of career they want in the theater

and then, you know, they do a TV series

and they keep doing the TV series and

they keep talking about wanting to do

plays and then it's season 9 and season

10 and season 12 and they're still

talking about want to do plays. And I

sometimes say to them, you know, I

believed you about nine years ago when

you said you wanted to do a play, but I

don't believe you anymore. There was a

period of time when I went through a

very interesting education about the

very question about how did I go about

choosing work?

Because when you start out, you know,

you're lucky if you get like sides

and then the day comes along when

they're actually offering you a part.

You're like, "Wow, they offered me this

part." So now you script like, "Where

where is that part? Where is that?

Where's that part?"

And I got to a point where I was like,

"Wait a minute."

I used to love to just pick up a play

and read it

and then I'd find this part in it and

I'd go, "Wow, this is an incredible

play."

And I suddenly found that scripts

arriving with a cover letter that said

they've offered you the role of blah

blah blah and here's who's playing blah

blah blah and all the directing blah all

this stuff that was like

and I thought I actually

maybe I shouldn't know

maybe if I go back to the way it used to

be when I was in high school where I

just read something innocently

and then if I like it well then either

the part will be obvious to me

or I'll do what I have often done, which

is pick up the phone and call my agent

and go, the part of Freddy is amazing.

No, no, no, no. Tom Hanks is playing

Freddy. It's the brother friend of the I

go,

but actually what ended up happening is

is that I I no longer get cover letters.

I mean, that stopped a long long time

ago. I don't want to know what part.

just want to read the story. I don't

want to be drawn in or tainted or

seduced by

the money, the director, the other

actors, the part. I want to read the

story. And if I respond to the story,

then I should, it's probably something I

should consider doing. If I don't, then

all that other stuff shouldn't matter.

It's not always easy. I think I was

always trying to not get cornered.

Um, I think there are many very, very

good casting directors. There are also

many casting directors who tend to slot

actors in certain, "Oh, that's what he

does. Oh, she does that. Oh, he's not

good at that. Oh, I don't want to see

him try that." Uh, they slot you and

they type you. And I think I was always

trying in the early days to keep moving

beyond where I was before I ever got

slotted.

I I can think of sort of three or four

distinct times when I said to my agent

or manager, I can't do this kind of role

anymore. I can't play this kind of part.

If I continue doing it, it's the only

way they're going to think of me. I have

to move in a different direction. And

that means I'm going to probably have to

say no to some stuff because they'll

keep offering me this stuff because

that's the way that the moment they're

thinking of me. I gota I've got to get

out of this little place that I'm in.

And I did that three or four times quite

deliberately

and it meant I didn't work for a while.

It meant I had to to wait for the right

thing to come along. Um but I think I

kept shifting it enough that I was

successful in not being pigeonholed too

early. So again, it's it's

recognizing that everything you do

affects if not the next thing you do,

the next 10 things you do.

And whether they all work out or they

don't work out, whether some of them

smell to high heaven.

I remember

when Jack Lemon got the AFI Lifetime

Achievement Awards, which is this

wonderful thing they give out every

year, American Film Institute.

I was there and I spoke and a lot of his

colleagues

spoke and so Jack got up at the end and

he had the award and he said, "You know,

I asked George Stevens how many clips

they were showing tonight and he said

33." I said, "Oh, good. I've done about

77 films. If you show the other 33, this

room will be cleared."

So,

you know, on balance, you know, the good

thing is that they they remember the

good ones. Uh they tend to forget the

ones that uh weren't memorable.

Why can players like Murray or Nadal

or Serena

survive five hours on the court? Why can

they outplay a 22-y old? Because the

22-y old hasn't had as many hours on the

court.

Because the 22-y old doesn't work as

hard. Because they may have innate

talent. They might have initial energy.

So, you know, they might win a set. They

might win the first set. Boy, that young

guy just won that first set. But then

the master comes back

because those young kids, they just they

and it happens in acting, it happens in

sports

and you think you're talented. So, you

know,

I remember I was upset for a period of

time that I wasn't going out for all the

parts that some of my friends were going

up for. And I remember sitting my

manager down and saying, "What the [ __ ]

So and so's going up for that part and

so and so's going up for that part. Why

aren't up for that part? Warren up for

that part. Why up for that part? You

know, and by the way, I didn't even know

what these parts were.

I hadn't read the scripts. I didn't know

what the role was. Didn't know if I was

right for the role, but I was I was

pissed off. And my manager said to me,

very smart guy, first manager I had,

he said, "Do you think you're talented?"

I said, "Yeah."

He said, "Do you also think you're raw,

undeveloped, inexperienced,

not ready

to play in the leagues you want to play

in?"

I was like, "What?"

He said, "Then why do you want to go

around this town showing everybody who's

in a position of authority where you are

today?

Why don't we pick the roles you're right

for?

Pick the jobs you're ready for and go

for those.

Because people make decisions very

quickly about talent,

very quickly.

And if you're not ready for something,

it's like too big a monster for me to

chew on.

Find the things that you're right for.

Fight for the stuff you know you can do.

Don't fight for the stuff that you don't

even know about. It's you're just pissed

off and you know your ego's been bruised

because somebody else is up for it. If

you're going to fight for something,

know what you're fighting for.