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Now, let's get them all off.

What's up with my voice, man?

-It got better.
-I know it got better.

I was waking up during the show.

The best thing I would suggest
is to get like...

Long Island
Nassau Coliseum

30 seconds and the lights come up.

-They're not a singing audience.
-Most of the people don't care.

-What?
-People don't care what I sound like.

-The main thing is...
-Why can't they sing, the audience?

They can't sing.

GENESIS
PHIL COLLINS - DRUMS

GENESIS
MIKE RUTHERFORD - GUITARS

GENESIS
TONY BANKS - KEYBOARDS

Especially with our current album,

we've gone much more
back to writing group material together,

which we'd lost a bit for a while.
We were doing much more individual songs.

And it's just, you sit down,

and some songs have a little bit you
start from, you know, a couple of chords.

Then something happens.

You're playing together,
you're jamming together,

and then something happens,
there's this little spark.

It's little things.

Tony refuses
to have his bags carried for him.

He hates using a porter.
He doesn't like using limos.

In places like this, it's inevitable.
It's the only way you can really do it.

Each in their own little way,
they have little things like that

which, I think, keeps them sane.
It keeps them sane.

We've got the stage call at 1:00.
The rigging is at 3:00.

-3:00 a.m.?
-3:00 a.m. After The Police.

The lights and the sound
start to go in about 8:00 or 9:00.

One, two, one, two. Check, one, two.

Stay where you are.

-Where I am?
-Yeah. No.

It's where you were. Don't move.
Go lights down.

Test. One, two.

Test. Check, one, two.

One, two, test.

Standby 2-3-5-8-6 for blackout.

Standby for the bumping
of the keyboards in white.

Ready spots? And go.

How are you doing?

We sound like we're cities apart.
We're only a few rooms apart.

We're doing this because,

Joe, we couldn't stand
to be in the same room as you.

-That's cute.
-Just kidding.

-I'm here with Phil Collins.
-Good afternoon.

Phil's in town with his band Genesis
to do three nights at the Spectrum.

-I know.
-That's pretty good.

Sacrebleu! Yes. We keep adding a night
every year we come here.

In New York, after we finish with Philly,
we're gonna play the Savoy

before we play Nassau and Meadowlands.

So, you are doing...

We are doing. We're trying to slip in
the odd club and very small theatre club.

Keeps it fresh.
Keeps a different perspective each night.

Yeah. We must wanna do it
cos it's occupied nights off.

And we sort of said,
"There's a night off here. Let's put a gig in."

Or maybe you don't know what else to do.

No. We've got plenty of things to do.
Believe me.

Why don't we play the title track from the LP,
then we'll come back,

you can tell us what it means

and how you got together
with Earth, Wind & Fire.

93.3 WMMR.
Let's hear the title track, Abacab.

WMMR

Hello, this is Phil Collins here. Who's there?

-You've got Mark Porter here, Philadelphia.
-Hello, Mark. How are you doing?

-How're you doing, Phil?
-Pretty good, pretty good.

Listen, I was wondering,
do you think it's ever possible

that Peter Gabriel would come back
and do some work with Genesis again

or maybe you go
and doing some work with him?

Well, I've done some work with him.

-I played on his last record, on the third one.
-Okay.

And also, before that,
when he didn't have a group,

because his American group was proving
too expensive to keep on as a full-time band,

he didn't have a group,
so I volunteered my drums,

and John Giblin played bass,
and Jo Partridge played guitar.

We basically got a group together

to play the stuff that was
eventually to appear on his last album.

And we did some gigs in England.

We did a festival
and two or three other dates.

And it was very good fun.
I love Peter's music.

We all stay in touch with him.

As far as him coming back to the band,
I think that's very unlikely.

But it's not because of the bad feelings,

it's just because we're never
in the same place at the same time.

And he's got too much music to write,

and we've all got
too much music to play, too.

Fantastic. Okay.
Listen, your new album's fantastic.

-Love every bit of it.
-Glad you love it.

-And I'll see you at the show tonight.
-Okay.

-I'm gonna be there.
-Thanks, Mark. Bye-bye.

-Bye-bye.
-Bye-bye.

-Hello, this is Phil Collins. Who's there?
-Hello, Phil.

-I'm curious...
-Hello, Curious.

I'm curious. Is Daryl and Chester
going to be with you again this time around?

I hope so. They were here last night.

No, they're gonna be with us.
They're part of the group really.

-Although they don't play on the albums...
-Right.

That's more strategic than...

Well, you know what threw it off, I guess,
And Then There Were Three.

Yeah, well, on the albums,
we still are a three-piece group.

But it's just on the road, obviously, it's...

I see, I see.
I have a suggestion for a Thanksgiving song.

You do? What's that?

"Over the fields and through the woods
to grandmother's house we go."

You ever hear that one?

No. But if you wanna come along,
you can sing it.

-"Over the hills and through the woods"?
-Yeah.

That sounds like
the beginning of a porno movie.

-Not really.
-Okay, I know. We'll edit it.

"Over the hills and through the woods."
We'll all check up on the words and music,

and if the other people in the audience
might know it, then we'll do it.

And one more question.
Are you a football fan?

-English football or American football?
-American.

American, I don't understand the rules.
Ice hockey is more my line.

-I see, I see. Do you play?
-No.

But I can understand it easier.
There's less people on the pitch.

I see. Well, good luck,
and I hope to see you tonight down there.

-I hope so, too.
-Okay, have fun.

-Hope you enjoy it. Bye-bye.
-Bye-bye.

Hello, Phil Collins here. Who's there?

Phil Collins? Wow, wow.

I just wanted to know...

-This is Rich Cates.
-Hi, Rich.

And I wanted to know, like,

we all know how
you made your solo album and everything,

and we wanted to know
what effect does that have on Genesis?

Are you thinking of going out
on a solo career or what?

Well...

There's really no threat at all

to the group's existence
by the fact that we all do solo albums.

We've all got this outlet,
and so that's the most important thing.

We all write lots of songs,

and we need the other outlet,
apart from the group,

cos one album a year isn't enough time.

But I think
it's been very positive for the group.

We've all learnt a lot
from doing albums on our own.

We learn the strength of the group,

and it means that we can save our own songs
for our own albums

and leave the bits
that we think we can't finish,

we leave those bits unfinished

and bring them into the group situation,
and we throw them in the air,

and everybody else
seems to be able to do something with them.

And that's why
you get something like the new album,

which is basically group orientated.

-93.3 WMMR. You like it, too, huh?
-Yeah.

It's my favourite fast one.

Why don't you
put your pictures on the albums?

-We did on the inside sleeve this time.
-Yeah, but...

-That's the first time ever.
-Why?

We've always had this idea
that we look the same as everybody else.

And so therefore,
you try and put out an image on an album...

But the girls wanna see.

Well, the girls have to buy the album
and open it up.

Okay, okay.
What are you gonna do Thanksgiving?

Don't you guys have a Thanksgiving
at your house?

Yeah. Well, in fact, when you're going back
as far as A Trick of the Tail,

before that,
certain songs were individual as well,

but we just tended to,
for the sake of simplicity,

tended to credit everything to the group.

Because we felt
we all gave a contribution to every song

in the arrangement stage,
which was as much as composition.

But now, we just feel we would like
to get back to writing more songs together,

cos we felt that in the past

that a lot of the best songs we've ever done
have been things we've written together.

And that's really the main reason
for being in a group, is to do things together.

Cos if you're just writing
a song on your own,

you might just as well record it on your own
and finish it off on your own.

I'm particularly talking about
And Then There Were Three,

where I think each person tended to

have a pretty strong voice
in how the song ended up sounding.

The actual writer did, much more so
than the other two members.

Was this the result of circumstances?

This was the first album you'd done
when you were down to three.

Steve having left the band.

I think it was more at the end after Pete left,

and there was a kind of desire, I think,
to prove yourself as a writer.

Cos up until then,
no one quite knew who had done what.

And it was a natural progression, I think.

And suddenly, without really realising it,

we found we were all arriving
with lots of songs.

We were trying
to get some group stuff going,

but probably because we put
so much material into individual songs,

there were no little bits around,

which often
is how the group stuff starts, at all.

The decision to produce the album
yourselves after this amount of time,

it is the first album you've produced.

It never really dawned on us, actually.

I think we all have felt
that we've all produced all the albums.

-Right.
-It's just that...

Cos we definitely
have had much more of a role.

We say we've produced this new album
as opposed to all the others,

which we didn't do.

We basically had to foot the bill and say,

"We don't like this, change the sound".
Or, "We want this kind of sound".

And a lot of the times, towards the later days,

it was actually
coming off the instruments, anyway.

It was just...

You know, production is
as much a part as anything else.

It's actually the mixing

and the areas,
the territorial rights where you can't go,

which are becoming less and less specific
as we all get better at it.

We're all getting down now.

We're down
to working the faders and the knobs

and mucking about with the EQ

and trying different limiters
and trying different noise.

All that stuff that goes into producing,
we have access to.

Whereas before, and I'm sure
if David was in the same room as us,

he'd say, "You could have always done it."

But the fact is,
we always felt that it was his area,

-and we felt a bit shy...
-And he was there.

You have to take the producer's

or the co-producer's ideas
as seriously as your own really,

because he's just at that stage,
in the sound stage.

And in some respect,
it could be considered as more important,

because he is not involved in the music
apart from the fact of liking it or not liking it.

And so if he says, "No, you can't.
Don't do that. I don't like that."

You think, "Well, maybe he is right".
Or whatever.

And I think now,
the three of us behind the controls...

There were lovely moments when we were
making Abacab when Hugh was actually ill.

We had this farm, and he was ill in bed
for a week with some virus.

And the three of us and Little Geoff,
who's our technician,

he came in and operated the machines,

and there was sweat dripping off the hands,
clammy hands.

Dropping in and dropping out.

This taboo area
of actually recording the thing yourself.

Suddenly, it was us.
It was "take off your clothes and live".

We were mucking around with knobs.
Needles were going over like that.

I think the three of us are actually
incredibly brave when it comes to it,

cos we have much less ideas
about what sound should be.

If it sounds good to us,

it doesn't matter how you get there
or what the needles are doing

or what the technical side is.

And it would never have been possible
to get to that stage with Dave, I think,

because he was probably always
too conscientious of what his job was.

Certainly, there's
a much less preconceived notion

of what Genesis sound like
on the new album.

We've always sounded like that.

The thing is that this album sounds a lot
more like we sound in the rehearsal room,

which has always
been like that for many years.

And we've managed to capture it
on this album, for the first time really.

-A little less gloss, a bit more emotion.
-Yes.

NYC
The Savoy

-Me and Sarah Jane...
-Right.

...you wrote that
with the drum rhythm, didn't you?

Drum box. I've done that on quite a few
songs of mine, actually, over the years.

This is the first time it's actually
gone on the record with a drum box on it.

I don't know. With that, I was just trying
a lot of different ideas on one rhythm,

going through a series of different fields.

A lot of which I hadn't explored much before.

Like the sort of, almost reggae feel
which is throughout the song a bit,

and then, towards the end, it changes
back to a slightly more traditional feel.

But I quite liked the idea of
swapping between the different rhythms,

keeping that one drum rhythm going.

And originally, I didn't feel very strongly
about having the song as one thing like that,

going through a series of about, what?
Eight, nine, ten bits.

I was quite happy to take some bits out
of isolation and make a song out of them,

but the way the rest of the album was going
was very much into

songs with one mood in them.

Like, Abacab tends to stick
pretty much in one mood, for example.

And so, I thought it'd be a nice idea.

I think we all did really, in a way, to keep
this song going through a series of moods,

cos it would contrast a little bit
with the rest of the album.

And it definitely would
stand out for that reason.

And I think it works, the idea.

I think the advent of the drum box
in our writing

has been very positive.

We all write with drum boxes,

just purely
because if you have a rhythm going,

you don't play so much.

In the old days, we used to rehearse,
there's three walls of sound.

There was his wall of sound,
there was Tony's wall of sound,

there was Steve's wall of sound.

You get into a studio,
and there's no room for the sound.

And there's me thrashing away as well,
and Peter's thick voice.

So now, it's like, if you write,
you tend to write with a drum box.

You leave the spaces
because there is a rhythm going.

I think it also helps you change the mix.

In the past, without the drum box,
you'd often...

We've changed as writers, matured, I think.

We used to stop and start
an awful lot in the early days.

And yet if you've got a drum box going,
you can actually do that,

but the song seems to flow very often, more.

I'm not saying it can't work,

but sometimes I think it didn't work
cos we were almost too busy.

The drum box helps you to do that, because
you can play against it, get the same effect.

The Beatles used to do that actually,
some of their songs.

They used to do all sorts of weird things,
the chords and lines above it.

But the drums would kind of plough on,

or Ringo would plough on regardless
through it. No one told him.

That song, Abacab, actually reveals
a lot about the new Genesis, I find.

Just in terms of...

Or simplicity, I think.
That is the new Genesis.

But it's a very typical example of a tune
that has sprung from nowhere.

We just started playing in a rehearsal room.

Also, you've got to capture the feeling.

Because in the past, very often
the song was arranged in such a way

that if everyone played the right notes,
the songs sounded quite good.

Whereas, now,
a lot of songs on Abacab are a lot simpler

and rely much more on feel.

Unless you capture that, you've got nothing.

A good example is Keep It Dark.

It actually sounded good
in the rehearsal room.

But we got in the studio,
and there isn't very much on there.

There's a drum track and Tony's
playing the bass part with his left hand.

I'm just playing one riff
the whole way through, virtually.

And unless you capture some magic
or some feeling, it sounds awful.

We had a couple of go's, and it wasn't...

We got depressed.
It wasn't happening, was it?

And then suddenly, we got it one day.
We managed to capture it.

And that's actually something we never
really did in the past because of time.

I mean, one gets into a situation
where you have studios...

You book yourself into a studio,

and because we were recording in Sweden,
or recording in Holland,

you get 12 days, you do the backing track,

you get the best version
you do that day of the backing track,

and that becomes the track.

That becomes
the definitive version of the song.

Now we've got our own place,
there is no definitive version, really.

There are lots of versions of which, suddenly
one day, we'll all agree on, that is the one.

And the same with the mixes.

As opposed to spending all day on the mix,
going through the whole song,

you've heard it so many times,

you don't even know
what you want it to sound like in the end.

It gets to a point
where you've spent so much time on it,

you have to come out with a product
at the end of the day.

You have to say,
"That is the mix of the song".

And this time, again, we went the other way.

We just did
lots and lots of mixes of the songs.

Actually, it was a very fresh, new thing.
I'm very excited by it all.

-Yes, there's certainly...
-I seem to be the only one who's excited.

Putting the Earth, Wind & Fire horn section
into No Reply At All, for example,

that was the first time
that you've used outside musicians

since your very first album, isn't it?

It was beginning to be the eleventh hour.

I kept talking about it
and nothing solid was happening,

and I suggested doing it.

And then Tony, quite rightly,
had some reservations about whether,

A, if there was nothing
we could do ourselves,

like we did on Behind The Lines
and Turn It On Again.

We actually duplicated
or simulated a horn sound for those tunes.

Why couldn't we do that?

Also, the reservation
that we might end up sounding not like us,

a bit like Earth, Wind & Fire.

So rather than bringing them all over there,
I think Mike picked up a bit on the energy.

And so we...

You know, I put me money where
me mouth was in a way sort of.

We arranged a studio, got the guys,
went over to Los Angeles,

and put the two tunes on the tape and said,

"This is what we want you to do."

And they arranged a tom-tom,
went away, came back with it on paper,

and we all sat around and they recorded it.

And we changed a few things
that we didn't like

or didn't fit or we thought could be better.

But, you know, it was one of those things,
I think we all liked the aspect of it.

It was a big move for us,

cos it was the first time
anybody else had played on our album

-since Genesis to Revelation, right?
-That's right.

It brings a new life to
the Genesis trademarks as well, doesn't it?

Because the trademarks
are all still there if you look for them.

I think No Reply is a good example of a song

that has got a new dimension
in it with the horns,

yet it still sounds very Genesis,

which is, I think, a good example
of how other instruments can work.

It's all a question of what you concentrate on
in a song,

I mean, everyone particularly in the States

talk about No Reply as being nothing like
anything else we've done, and things.

But really, from my own point of view,
what I'm playing,

there's a lot of relationship
to what I played on that song

and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway,
in the sense that

it's the same cross-hand technique.

And you know, I think it's really just,

you put the brass on and everyone thinks,
"It's that kind of song, right?"

So now we'll call it rhythm and blues
or something, you know?

And so it becomes that.
Whereas if we haven't put the brass on,

we may have done it a little bit differently,
no one would have said that.

It's just one little step towards
taking people off automatic pilot, you know?

Because they do tend to put us in one area,
which we're not afraid to be in,

but at the same time,
we're also in lots of other areas, you know?

And you know, they love to think of you
over there and Earth, Wind & Fire over there,

and, you know, Devo there or whatever.

And in fact, you know, we're not particularly
in any one particular thing.

Which sounds pretty aimless,
but I mean, we're not.

You know, we're just rock...
I mean, we're all writers.

Now, I can hold my hand up high
and say I'm a writer, too.

We're all writers, and so therefore,
write all different types of music, really.

And it's trying...

I mean, the other thing was trying to get out
of the mould that people tend to put us in.

And I think it's happening
more nowadays anyway,

because we've got a lot younger audience,

who are, I suppose, more open to accept
more things than our older audience.

It's just cos they don't know them
as much as anything else.

They don't have the preconceived ideas.

The first thing a lot of our audiences heard
by us in the States is Misunderstanding,

so they've got a different
preconception about the group.

Okay, a lot of them probably went out
and bought the album

and discovered that
we had more range than the one song.

But, nevertheless, they start off
with a different kind of preconceived idea.

And I think it's very important that we were
able to do that and to give a different feel.

Do you like that, the fact that
you're getting a new audience in?

-Well, as long as...
-You can go back as far as The Lamb.

Yes, that doesn't... I mean, I think it's good.

I think it's good.
Hopefully, you keep some old people as well.

I know some people who love to think
this album is our best album

since things like The Lamb in many ways,

because it is a very positive album
and we seem to know, you know...

I don't know.
We felt very confident about this album.

In my opinion, I felt more confident about
this album than the last two, definitely.

And I think in a way that a fan who kind of
has liked most of what we've done in the past

is still gonna like this,
because it's our own taste.

We've still got our own judgement,
that's the only filter it's going through.

It's going against the general trend though.

Because when you've been around
as a band for a decade or more,

bands tend to harden
when their arteries tend to harden,

if you like, as they go on.

Whereas you've, as it were,
broken out in the last couple of albums.

We've been fortunate with these changes,
you know, yeah.

The changes, obviously, within the group
have really made us not feel

like we've been around
for about 10 years, to be honest.

I mean, I reckon the group...

Again, it's all different. We're all in this
for different reasons in a way, I guess.

Because we only ever find out
what the other person's reasons are

when we do individual favours.

But I mean,
I consider this to be a different group

from even the one that did Duke, you know?

Just cos of the attitudes.

And maybe I'm wrong,
but the attitudes within ourselves of...

How do you feel they've changed
over the last album?

-Well, I mean...
-Just between Duke and...

To be honest, I'm so glad
the way we're doing things now, you know?

Our own place,
our attitudes towards each other,

our attitudes towards how
the music is written and recorded.

In the studio, I really think it's not easy to
produce, three of you to produce yourselves.

But it works very well.
There's no taboo areas any more.

N.Y. loves GENESIS