All language subtitles for Inside the CIA Secrets and Spies - S01E01 - Kari Amelung

There was no CIA website when I applied.

I really didn't have a good concept of
what I would be doing.

Then all of a sudden I find myself in a
situation that felt like it was straight

out of a movie.

They take me to a perfect interrogation
cell.

I'm in the cell.

They're with me.

I start fighting.

She wanted me dead.

She tried three times, anything to stop
me from getting a look at those hacked

documents. I don't know if it's well
known, but the carry of Homeland is

on the carry of this story. And the
carry of this story is as aggressive, as

focused as portrayed in that show.

My job was to recruit spies and steal
secrets.

In a war zone, there are lives on the
line. So there's a time clock.

You could get the information that helps
somebody live tomorrow.

You feel a lot of pressure because if
you get it wrong, there is a possibility

that it could be life or death.

So when I arrive in my second
assignment, It is in the Middle East

Frank, my colleague, and I, they're
going to go out and meet an asset.

As far as we can tell, no one sees us.

And we go up this back flight of stairs
up to the floor where the asset lives.

An asset is a person who has agreed to
work with the CIA in order to provide

information.

My name is Carrie Omelung.

The CIA's mission is to get the hard
stuff, get information, and the very

hardest things to get are the plans and
intentions of world leaders.

So I'm hoping that our asset has the
best information and the secrets that we

need that will keep our country safe.

And, you know, protect people's lives.

In most countries, if an asset gets
caught, they, at a minimum, would go to

for the rest of their life. At a
maximum, they will be executed for

And about at the point where I get the
camera set up, I hear like thud.

And like the sound of feet and people
yelling, they bash the door in.

About six guys come in and they start
yelling, you're spies, what are you

in our country?

But wait, let me start from the
beginning of this story.

I'm standing in this country I've never
been.

surrounded by people that speak a
language that I have just learned, and

was when it hit. You know, this is for
real.

In a lot of ways, I was prepared through
training, quite well prepared, and

sometimes even I didn't understand how
good that training was until I needed

The training can be very valuable.

One of the most important things is
situational awareness. Every city in the

world, every country in the world where
we conduct operations is different.

My name is Glenn Korn.

I am a retired CIA officer, and I was an
instructor at the CIA's training

facility. Many people know it as the
farm.

Officers go there to learn in the
operations side of the agency.

What is espionage? What is
counterintelligence? What is

How do you identify it?

And by the way, when you finish that
training, you have a high school diploma

espionage. It takes years of being in
the field and actually running

before you get your bachelor's degree,
your master's degree.

Despite how good the training is,
there's nothing like actually doing it

real life.

Carrie is an exceptionally gifted
officer.

I developed a level of trust in her
capabilities before she even showed up

the station.

My name's Robert Richer.

I was deputy chief of station, the
number two in the station, in the

where Carrie was posted.

We were in French training together, so
we used to go running at one of our

training locations.

And we had great conversations about
operations, getting to know each other.

I'd also done my homework.

I'd seen where her prior assignment was.

I'd saw what she'd done in her prior
assignment.

My first assignment, it was the end of
the Cold War.

I'm 23 years old. The learning curve was
like this. You don't know if your home

is bugged, your car.

You really have to be...

Always aware of, you know, where you
are, what you're saying, who might be

listening.

But there was also the advantage of, you
know, being young, female, American.

I could crash any diplomatic reception
that I wanted to. I just put on nice

clothes, look the part, be confident,
you just show up. And if you can draft

somebody, hey, how you doing, and start
talking to someone, walk in with them,

then it looks like you're their date.

And then you can work the crowd.

In espionage, you have to live a double
life. You have to lie.

You have to deceive people sometimes.

You have to manipulate. You have to
build relationships and networks.

I would befriend somebody who looked
like their kind of big man on campus and

the diplomatic crowd, draft on them to
meet the person that I wanted to meet.

And that was actually better because
then you were sharking sort of with

somebody in front of you.

hiding you a little bit.

I had quite a bit of success that way.

For me, a journeyman officer is someone
who's learned the craft, they've

executed their craft, and they're able
to do it without supervision.

So I knew I had almost a journeyman
officer, and usually we won't consider

someone a journeyperson officer until
they've had a couple more tours. No, she

was there already.

So when I arrived on my second
assignment, I was all of about 25 years

I felt like I walked out of my first
assignment with skill.

So I'm feeling a little nervous, but at
the same time, I'm feeling prepared.

She was working in the agency at a time
when female case officers had to work

twice as hard to prove themselves as
anyone else.

And remember, this is at a time when
Desert Storm is picking up.

Iraq invaded and took over its tiny
neighbor Kuwait today. That set off

worldwide protest and drew sanctions
from the United States, Great Britain

the Soviet Union.

So in the wake of Saddam's Iraqi
invasion of Kuwait.

The U .S. stood up to defend the area
from further expansion of that

by Saddam. There was concern that they
may go from Kuwait to Saudi Arabia or

somewhere else, and at the same time to
come up with a coalition to push him out

of Kuwait.

So it was very tense.

While the coalition included Arab
countries that were allies, there were

Arab countries that were less inclined
to support Desert Storm and to

our work against Iraq.

So we still had to collect information
on the host country's intentions and

they're doing against us.

The whole station was kind of in a
turnover, you know, because assignments

two to three years in a lot of places.

And so in this case, when I arrived
within days, the new chief of station

in. And I was, I'm pretty sure the first
female ops officer that had been in

this country.

And she for sure, was the first female
chief of station that had been in this

part of the world.

So the chief of station is generally
more experienced, has had multiple

comes in to give guidance and
leadership, but also to meet with the

intelligence services.

And the host country's intelligence
services did not like meeting with her.

She's a woman.

So she came into a boiling pot.

were not particularly welcome in that
country at that time.

So that compounded things. It was a
different kind of challenge.

In this case, you know, the biggest
American presence was at the U .S.

in this country.

And so that was often the center of
protests.

For example, people took the yolk out of
an egg and they filled it with acid

and they would throw it at your car.

And people might follow you for not
reasons of espionage, but for reasons of

harassment.

I would walk down the street and people
would, you know, intentionally bump into

me, try to elbow me in the chest.

It wasn't particularly safe for a
Western woman alone.

And the nature of my work, of course,
was to be alone at night on the streets

in my vehicle.

So you had to manage that as well.

At one point, Rob pulls me in and says,
Pat, the chief of station, wants you to

take this asset.

Because I learned Frank, the guy who's
handling the case now, is departing in

two months.

So we talked to Carrie and we talked to
the other officer, and they arranged to

make a turnover.

And a turnover is when one case
officer... Handles the other agent to

case officer. And turnovers are actually
when you cement a relationship with an

asset.

Frank tells the asset, look, I'm leaving
the country, but I'm going to introduce

you to a very experienced female
officer.

So the guy isn't surprised when a woman
walks in in this part of the world which

he hasn't seen before in this context.

This asset had been a long -term asset,
and he had access to a lot of documents

from his government that were of
interest. And at that point, countries

area of the world were kind of picking
sides. Like, you were either, you know,

with the Kuwaitis and us, or you were
with the Iraqis.

It's always really good if you can get
an asset who can provide you documentary

information, like official documents.

You can have assets that can tell you
things, and that's great too, but to

the proof of like, okay, I can see this
document with an official stamp, and it

looks like others that we've seen, it
helps to validate that this is good

information.

Hopefully, the intelligence will help us
understand what the government was

thinking, and particularly at this time,
were they helping Saddam Hussein?

So I probably spent two to three weeks
preparing for this first meeting.

And as I'm doing this, I noticed
something really strange about this case

where they were holding the meetings.

I think they're meeting this guy in his
apartment.

How can that be? You know, that's not
what we were trained to do.

I'm thinking this is weird.

Generally, you don't want to meet an
agent in their residence.

Because there are other people that can
see you.

The neighbors, the doorman, the taxi
driver on the street outside. They can

that activity. They can see you arrive,
so they may see a foreigner arrive, and

they say, why is a foreigner going to
that person's apartment?

It can be life or death for them.

In this country, an asset being caught
working for us, especially with... The

amount of documents that was involved
and his position.

He was looking at, if not life
imprisonment, execution.

Safety of that asset is the most
important thing that you're worried

I mean, we took every precaution. If you
make a mistake, real consequences are

going to happen.

Finally, before we went out, I took a
tiny little paper and then I...

encrypted a phone number for another
asset who they'd lost contact with.

Maybe after we do this meeting, I can
hit a pay phone and try to call this

I'm going to make sure that I'm not
being followed because I'm new.

I'm still learning what it looks like
here.

I plan my surveillance detection route
and Frank, the departing officer who was

introducing me to this asset.

Plans his.

And, of course, a flashback to training.

Surveillance detection is designed to
make sure that the officer is confident

when they go to meet an agent or to do a
clandestine operation that they are not

being followed.

They're not being trailed. They're not
being tracked.

We park the car.

We get out several blocks away from
where the meeting is going to be.

And we get out of the car.

There's no one around.

You want to make sure that no one's
following you.

Because, you know, maybe in that country
they have a suspicion of who you are

and what your real job is.

It's a very complicated issue, by the
way. It's one of the hardest stresses in

my experience that you have as an
officer.

Because a good surveillance team can be
sometimes very hard to detect.

As far as we can tell, no one sees us.

And we go up this back flight of stairs.

We emerge out of the stairwell.

Look around. No one's there.

Walk quickly down to where the apartment
is.

Push on the door. It's ajar, like it's
supposed to be.

We walk in.

And it turns out I did not know really
what I was signing up for.

In many countries, if somebody is caught
meeting with a CIA officer, they can be

executed. And unfortunately, there is a
history of that.

When you run an agent, you are
responsible for that person's life, and

better take it seriously.

At that time, it was the original Gulf
War, and this asset had been working for

us for years.

He had access to a lot of documents.

from his government.

So I have all of these things that I
have brought along inside a black

purse -looking thing. So from the
outside, it looks like I just have kind

like a big tote bag or purse. And it's
typical of what you might see someone

carrying there.

One of the most important things that I
needed was the guy's salary, which was

cash. It was definitely solid
intelligence that he had been providing.

paid for that.

And all of a sudden, I hear like thud.

And like the sound of feet and people
yelling.

So I take the money.

I shove it in my bag. I take the camera.

I shove it in my bag. I'm trying to do
all this because I'm taking the

documents, everything that is
incriminating. I'm trying to get in the

because I don't know what's going on,
but it is not a good sound.

As I'm doing this, they bash the door
in.

About six guys come in.

One of them has a camera.

And he's like...

Snapping pictures and they start yelling
and they're saying, you know, you're

you're spies.

What do you do in our country?

And I look at Frank. He looks as
surprised and confused as I am.

It's all happening really fast.

I'm really thinking about, OK, what is
going on exactly?

And how do I make sure I don't do
anything that makes the situation worse?

Eventually, they sort of grab a hold of
us and start marching us down out of the

building.

to the cars.

Where are they taking us?

I don't know the city that well yet.

I go back to my training and a strategy
for survival in this kind of a

situation.

In any stressful situation, your
adrenaline is going to kick in. You have

maintain control. There are places I was
where I was walking around, but we knew

that the opposition was looking to find
an American to behead them.

You've got to maintain control of
yourself. You can't freak out.

We pull up in front of this big brick
installation, and we drive

down a ramp.

They park, and they grab a hold of us
and march us into this building.

Frank is somewhere else.

They put him somewhere else. I don't
know where he is. I can't hear him. I

know what's happening to him. I don't
know if he's being treated worse than I

am. I don't know if they're torturing
him and going to get him to say

I'm trying like 100 miles an hour trying
to think about, you know, what is the

best thing for me to do in this
situation?

And pulling from anything that you know
from the past.

I grew up in a tiny town in the middle
of Illinois.

There were 1 ,500 people and one
stoplight.

I was lucky in that my mom was always
really encouraging of me of any interest

that I did have.

She was a young mom.

But she was kind of a hero to me because
she constantly went back to school.

Her goal was to get her undergraduate
degree by the time I got mine.

And then she got her master's, and then
she went for her Ph .D. So she was a

strong figure for me and someone that I
never wanted to disappoint.

My mom, for sure, fought hard.

And so I tried to always be like that.

I am clutching this bag like it is my
firstborn child. My fingers are, you

I'm on it.

This bag and what's inside could be life
and death to the asset.

And they take me to a perfect, like out
of a movie, interrogation cell.

I'm in the cell.

They're with me.

The guy with the gun points at me.

What happens if you are detained?

What happens if there is, like, an
unfortunate incident?

We've had officers detained. We've had
officers killed.

That's a very real concern that you have
to have.

It's like the quote from Churchill,
there's no safe battle.

And now they come after the bag.

I start fighting when I say, I am a
diplomat. You can't do this to me under

laws of the Geneva Convention. And this
bag is my property and it's covered

under those same laws, which is probably
not true.

And I'd like to think that, you know, I
was winning until another guy comes up

and starts peeling my fingers one by
one.

And finally they get the bag.

So I'm feeling a little bit defeated at
that point.

But one of the things that they taught
us in training is if you're in a

situation where you are taken prisoner.

One of the most important things to do
is just to sort of sit and think about

what do you know?

What are the things that you know?

What are the things that you're
learning? What are their actions telling

So the first thing was I gave them every
reason to clock me pretty hard upside

the head, and they didn't.

That was really kind of powerful
information because I knew that threat

person wasn't their main objective.

Then I have to think about, okay, what
is my strategy while in here?

I still don't know why they've done this
and what they're going to do to our

asset.

And so anything I say, I'm just afraid
that they will use against him.

There is training designed to teach you
what to do if you're interrogated. How

do you respond?

You should never admit that you're doing
something illegal.

Your cover is important.

It's explaining why are you in this
place? What are you doing there?

So you have to look like what you say
your job is.

Right now, in my bag, they have an
official document that says I work in

embassy. So I'm going to stick to that
cover.

And I'm going to stick to it as long as
I can.

The CIA told me when I joined that, you
know, you can't tell this to anybody,

that you really work for the CIA. For
your own safety, for the effectiveness

your career.

So I told no one, except my mom, for
years.

Once you profess to being a spy, you've
broadened what they can ask you, and

you've put yourself in a different
situation.

Critical to your survival is living your
cover.

And critical to your mission is living
your cover.

And critical to the lives of your agents
is living your cover.

So I say, I am a diplomat, and I want to
speak to my ambassador. Under the

Geneva Convention, you can't hold me
prisoner without a chance to speak to my

government or my representative.

And they just keep telling me, you have
no rights in this country.

Sit down and shut up.

And that was sort of the conversations
that we were having.

Until somebody comes in, and I think of
him now as the interrogator, and he

comes in, and he starts asking me
questions. And one of the questions is,

your name?

Which I found really weird because they
have my bag and in my bag is my official

ID. So they know that I'm affiliated
with the embassy. So they know my name.

So why are they asking me this? So I
found that was sort of weird. But OK,

maybe this is just their standard, like
how they interrogate people. Like, we'll

start with your name. But that seems a
little weird.

And they kept after it. And I'm like,
I'm not answering any of your questions

until you let me call the U .S.
ambassador.

And so that's how it goes for hours.

I don't know where Frank is.

I don't know how they're treating him.

I don't know if he said anything, what
our asset has said. I don't know any of

these things. So it makes absolutely no
sense in my mind for me to say a word.

And finally, you know, they get tired,
they go out.

And then I remember I have this little
piece of paper in my pocket.

A tiny little piece of water -soluble
paper, so it's paper that dissolves when

it hits water with a phone number.

One of the other cases that I was given
was an asset who they'd lost contact

with.

Earlier that day, I was thinking, okay,
maybe after we do this meeting, I will

try to call this guy.

So I have this little piece of paper in
my pocket.

But the fact that I've possessed water
-soluble paper, you know, old -school

tools, not many people do that, you
know, and people who do are usually, you

know, spies.

And that thing is like the sword of
Damocles hanging over my head. I think,

like, oh, God, I've got to get rid of
this thing. They haven't searched my

person yet, but they could at any
moment.

So if they find this paper...

What do I do?

We learn in training, everybody
eventually breaks under hospital

Eventually, you know, there's a certain
amount of pain and things that you just,

that threshold you cross and you'll
start talking.

And so I'm thinking, how can I get rid
of this encrypted phone number that

dissolves when it hits the water?

I might have stuck it in my mouth.

I can tell you something, though.

My mouth was dry.

There was a lot of adrenaline. And when
you're that sort of amped up, at least

for me, my mouth goes dry. So I wasn't
sure I could actually even choke the

thing down.

And the guard is really close to where I
am. So there was a chance me, you know,

digging around in my back pocket, trying
to pull out. He could even see that.

So I think, ah, guard, I need to go to
the bathroom.

And the guard ignores me.

I really need to go to the bathroom.

So the guy, you know, grabs me by the
arm, and we march out into the hallway.

And I'm thinking that I will go into the
bathroom, I will pull this thing out, I

will drop it in the toilet water, and
poof, it's gone.

And of course...

In this place, they do not have a
women's restroom.

They have kind of a closet.

And so he takes me into this room. It's
gross.

And he wants to come in with me.

Of course, that doesn't suit my plan,
nor do I really want him watching me go

the bathroom. So I make a thought.

I say, no, you cannot possibly be in
here.

Just leave the door open, you know,
whatever. And they decide, okay, fine,

leave the door a little bit open.

But then when I go into the bathroom,
it's one of the old school kind of on

floor toilets that don't have water.

Quick, quick, quick, what do I do?

Unfortunate things happen.

Bad luck strikes.

And so you need to be prepared all the
time for that adversity.

My husband likes to joke that he doesn't
think I have the fear gene, but I think

it also comes from that's just how
you're wired.

You know, I watched my mom be strong
and, you know, and she worked full time.

And so a lot of stuff I had to handle on
my own.

It wasn't necessarily the most
traditional upbringing.

So I suppose I had to figure out my
place in the world and how to blend in

think on my feet a little bit growing
up.

I'm sure there are things that I'm
afraid of, but I don't dwell in that.

It's for me more like the motivation.

How do I get through this thing? How do
I beat this thing?

How do I outsmart it?

I can say that in the situations where I
was under a lot of stress, there was a

point in each of these situations where
the training, something I learned,

snapped. And as stressed as I was and as
nervous and as scared as I was,

something would say, like, this is what
you were taught.

Nut up and get out there and go do the
job.

Thankfully, I'm shielded enough that I'm
able to

pull out the water -sol paper.

There's no water in the toilet, except
the next best thing.

I pee on it.

And it worked, thank God.

I was so relieved.

I can confirm that urine works just as
well as water. And that was a small

victory, but huge in my mind. And one of
the other things that they taught you

in these kind of situations, or if
you're being held, is Get a small

something that helps you feel like you
have gotten back some of your power.

And so while I still berate myself for
having that little piece of paper in my

pocket, even when I think about it now,
you know, I feel like it was a little

bit of an embarrassing, unprofessional
moment that I had that with me. It ended

up being empowering in that circumstance
because I was able to get rid of it and

get away with it.

And so that was my first small victory.

Early morning, I get a phone call from a
distraught station officer's wife

noting her husband frankly hasn't come
home.

Now, could he have been out having a
beer somewhere in town?

A personal relationship he hadn't
disclosed?

That's possible, but it wasn't that
officer's character.

At that point, we knew that our
officers, at least one officer, had a

So that was a concern.

So after I get rid of the water stall,
they take me back into the cell, and I'm

sitting there, and I'm thinking, okay,
relief.

I've solved a problem. That is good.

I've made my little victory.

I get to start thinking.

Think about what's happening.

Are there clues?

Are there things I can learn from this?

I'm pulling back again from my training.

Okay, I'm going to replay everything in
my head that happened.

So I go back over how they came into the
apartment.

I go back over to the guy with the
camera.

I feel very confident that we did not
bring the surveillance to this meeting.

wasn't something that we did.

And then I remember what was happening
to the asset.

At some point when they were coming into
the apartment, I look up at the asset,

and I look at his eyes, and he doesn't
look as scared as I would imagine him to

look.

It's kind of weird. Like, it just hit me
wrong. Like, this guy doesn't look

surprised, even.

If anything, he might even look a little
bit guilty in the eyes. I mean, this is

all, like, happening in a second, so, I
mean, I could be wrong.

But it just didn't feel right.

It starts to really come through that,
yeah, this was a setup. This was all

planned. They knew that meeting was
going to happen, and they were there

waiting.

They knew that we were spying and very
unhappy about it.

All of a sudden, the guard that's in the
room with me kind of snaps to

attention, and I hear some voices in the
hallway.

And this man in a suit, like a proper
suit.

Kind of stomps into the room, looks at
me, comes up and he kind of grabs my

face.

And he says, who the hell are you?

He touched my face and pinched it. I
mean, I didn't understand why.

Possibly he thought I had some sort of
mask or disguise on, but he

was clearly expecting something
different than what.

She found with me.

Looks at the guard. The guard looks kind
of scared. He looks as surprised and

confused as I am.

And the guy thumps out.

Okay, that's weird.

It was early morning hours.

Not long after, gotten a phone call from
the station officer's wife. Phone rings

again. It's the deputy chief of the
internal service of that particular

saying, I need you to come to the...

Building, no, and bring your chief.

And then I hear a commotion again.

This time, everybody starts moving, and
I hear voices, and I hear more voices,

and they grab me by the arm, one on each
side of me, and march me out into the

hallway.

We're walking forward, and out from one
of these other rooms in the hallway

comes Frank with his guy.

The room that he emerged from looked
like an office room.

Like, not like the dirty -caught naked
lightbulb room that I was in, but he

seemed to be in somebody's office.

Okay. They gave me a different reception
than they gave him.

We all kind of form in a group, and we
march out, and we go out into the dead

night.

The chief and I walk in, and the...

The liaison chief starts lecturing me
about what an embarrassment. They were

upset. Why would you do this? We will
tell you anything. They went out of

way to express their displeasure with
us.

And I keep looking to the chief.

She understood it exactly and tried to
engage. He wouldn't even talk to her.

He wouldn't even talk to her.

It was very disrespectful.

He finally looks to me and he says, you
are the chief of this old dog.

We are done with her.

I'm trying my best to sort of see where
they're taking us because I have no

idea.

We go into this courtyard area.

It's just kind of grassy and devoid of
anyone.

And we're walking across it.

And in one of the most inappropriately
funny moments of my career, Frank says,

well, I hope they at least give us a
cigarette before the firing squad comes.

They march us across the rest of the
courtyard and into the building. And at

this point, the lights are, you know,
like super bright and we're going

and into this beautiful conference room,
which is not what I expected at all.

And at the head of the table is the guy
in the suit who had come in and was so

displeased to see me.

I know that he's important in this
organization, which I assume is their

equivalent intelligence service. And
then I look to his right.

And there's Rob, my deputy chief of
station.

Rob looks over at me and says, are you
OK?

And I'm like, I'm fine.

And the guy at the head of the station
was like, oh, it does speak.

First, we had to have a very long and
strident lecture about.

how terrible we were and what we were
doing and how dare we, and this is their

country, and how can we be like this?
And, you know, we had to hear a very

sort of lecture about everything.

Carrie was almost belligerent. I was
watching her face, and she's just, like,

ready to take them on.

But she never broke cover.

Never broke cover.

I was given 24 hours to leave the
country.

And Frank was given a couple of days.

We were lucky because many times they'll
PNG the whole station.

Persona non grata means basically get
out of my country now.

They said these officers need to leave
the country.

We are not going to make it a big public
event.

However, this has been embarrassing.
This is going to hurt relations.

And your ambassador will be told about
it by the foreign minister.

Afterwards, they're released.

We then go into a deep breach in the
secure space to help us understand

what happened.

Frank and I were worried that people
would think that we had made the mistake

and that's why this happened.

And we start piecing together a little
bit.

You know, I have little bits that I
recall. Frank has little bits that he

recalls. We put it together. And then
also Rob had some really interesting

perspective because he's been dealing
with the head of the service and the one

called in.

So we start, you know, talking about it.
Both of us are sure that we didn't

bring surveillance, that this was all
planned, that was borne out by the way

that they came in.

How many of them, the camera, the
charges of espionage immediately, and

disappearance of the guy.

And then the big question, why did they
call Rob and not Pat, the chief of

station?

Why were they so surprised to see me?

The man coming in, tugging on my face.

Frank being put in what looked like kind
of an office, and I was in a jail cell.

Rob was like, okay, Frank, what did you
tell the asset about the new officer?

Well, I told him it was a female officer
because I didn't want him to be shocked

and that she was very experienced.

Carrie and the chief of station are tall
women, relatively tall women, and about

the same size.

They would not believe that we would
have two female officers, and they

they had the chief.

They thought they caught her, and
they're going to get her out of the

We're going to get that woman out of
here.

You know, if you want to embarrass the
CIA in your country and maybe get them

out, what a better way to catch the
chief of station red handed. It would

been a big win for them.

But I'm still really concerned, you
know, about what happened to the asset.

It turns out that the asset had earlier
in his marriage been stepping out

on his wife.

And, you know, once.

Hell Hath No Fury, she watched that guy
like a hawk. And one

day, apparently, she was talking to some
of her extended family and griped about

him and meeting these Americans. And it
was the wrong person to say that to

because that got back to the country
intelligence service.

And they started watching him.

They apparently caught him taking
documents out.

And then we're able to coerce him into
working for them to catch us.

After that, he went to jail. I mean,
they did not forgive him for the

for sure.

My gut feeling is that they would have
let this asset run against us and feed

information, because it's always in the
other side's interest to give you false

information and to see what you're
interested in. But when that asset was

and reported, hey, it's going to be a
woman.

They said, we got the chief.

She was doomed from the day she got
there.

When I came back to Washington, walking
into that building, it was

probably almost as scary as the event
itself.

You don't know how it's going to land on
people in Washington. And if there were

political ramifications that reached to
the White House.

were they going to give me another
overseas assignment?

Do I have a career left?

So I go in to meet the chief of the
division.

He was like, I understand, I've read,
you know, and I've talked to Rob, and

just go, you take care of yourself, you
take a little bit of time, and we'll

talk to you about what's next.

So it wasn't really definitive.

Later on, I found out that Rob, first
thing in the morning that morning, he

on the secure line, called Washington
and explained what had happened.

And he had already shaped the narrative
of what had happened. And so it didn't

have a chance to land the wrong way.

I was not going to let Washington hold
them accountable for anything that they

did not do.

But for the most part, if an op was
compromised and you had nothing to do

it, and the review shows that, we move
on.

We all expect something bad to happen in
our careers. The object is how you

mitigate it and how you handle it.

I mean, I already had a lot of respect
for Rob.

But this is when it really grew.

He was like, you're fine.

We're going to sort everything out.
Don't you worry.

You know, it's going to be okay.

That was, I mean, you can see I'm
emotional about it.

After that incident, the chief and I had
to vote.

Put down long reports, talk about it,
what we knew and what we did beforehand.

The chief was sent out not long after
that.

And I was recalled by the Marine Corps
for Desert Storm.

And like everything else, station
continued.

New manager was brought in.

New athletes were probably recruited.

After that meeting, I saw in the hallway
one of the people that I'd worked for

during training. And he saw me and said,
hey, I heard what happened to you.

Come see me. I think I got a job for
you.

And that was, you know, that was the
best thing to hear, and it did.

You know, somebody who stepped up and
had my back.

I had a long agency career after that,
and I was able to pay it back.

I was able to go on, and I was able to
be chief of station several times.

And those lessons stayed with me, and I
always tried to be that kind of leader

to my people.

I retired from the CIA after 33 1⁄2
years of service.

People have to understand it's a hard
life, but it's very rewarding.

Because there's no better feeling than
stopping a terrorist attack, than having

a source and a network that can warn you
they're going to kill the U .S.

ambassador in this country. They made
the decision last night, and this is how

they're going to do it. And then being
able to disrupt that threat.

This job is about risk. It's about
managing risk. It's about walking up to

line.

But we have a job to do.

And for me, it was all about always
trying to make the world a safer place.

I'm proud of that.