All language subtitles for Death.in.Apartment.603.What.Happened.to.Ellen.Greenberg.S01E03.1080p.WEB.h264-GRACE.Hi

[dramatic music]

♪ ♪

JOE: Good morning.

This is the video
recorded deposition

of Dr. Marlon Osbourne.

DEPOSITION OFFICER:
Dr. Osbourne,

will you please raise
your right hand?

Do you swear or affirm
that the testimony

you are about to give

will be the truth,
the whole truth,

and nothing but the truth?

I do.

JOE: Good morning, Dr. Osbourne.

My name is Joe Podraza,
and I represent

the estate of Ellen Greenberg.

You reached a conclusion as to
what the manner of death was.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

JOE: And you reached the
conclusion of a homicide.

Is that correct?

At that time, yes,
that's correct.

JOE: And we know that later,

that would be
revised to suicide.

Correct?

It was amended to suicide, yes.

JOE: All right.

If you were told
there was a question

as to whether the fiancé
was accompanied by someone,

whether the fiancé
broke through the door,

whether the lock was
engaged when the wounds were

administered to Ellen,
that those were in question

and not decided,
would you have changed

your initial
determination of homicide

to suicide while those
questions remained open?

♪ ♪

Brett, as a baby,
you're so little.

Here's Rachel and Ellen.

Aww. I love that picture.

[pensive music]

DEBBIE: Think of all that's
happened in our lives

since 14 years ago.

You're all just little kids.

Now you're all grown adults.

BRETT: You never expect
to be in the scenario

where you have a family
member who is murdered

and, you know,
nobody believes you.

Yeah, and 14 years later,
it's still unsolved.

Yeah, it's kind of
become, like, a mission

or a goal of ours
trying to determine

what actually happened to Ellen.

DEBBIE: We miss her.

And we will find
justice for Ellen.

Yeah.

♪ ♪

BRETT: The Philadelphia
Inquirer article

came out about Ellen in 2019.

It started to gather
significant internet traction.

And we saw that immediately.

If you searched Ellen's name,

people were chattering about it.

I think that's when
I first started

looking at this like,
hey, someone has

to have eyes on the internet.

Perhaps there will be a tip,
someone who could help us.

And now it is on all
corners of the internet.

PERSON 1: [speaking
native language]

765,000 views.

This one's in German.

PERSON 2: [speaking German]

BRETT: There's podcasts
and videos and tweets

and posts where people
have engaged in these

long-form discussions
and try and generate

new ideas of perhaps what...
what could have happened.

There's this community
of people who really care

about what happened with Ellen.

♪ ♪

JOEL: Like everybody else's
curiosity, we googled it.

And then that's when we
were like, oh, goodness.

[chuckles] This is
gonna be interesting.

I worked with Sam
Goldberg at NBC

and now currently at
LIV Golf for many years.

He's a really nice guy.

And he's like, hey,
bro, what's happening?

How's your day?

Just nonchalant,
just doing his job.

After the information came
out from the Enquirer,

that's when everybody
started talking about it.

Is this really true?

Did this happen?

And it made it awkward
for a lot of people.

But we don't know anything.

It's... you know, he's not
been charged with anything.

But there are people that are
scared to work around him.

They're very nervous.

♪ ♪

D'MICHELLE: So
here's the timeline,

beginning January 26, 2011.

One of the things that everyone,

including the investigators,
took as a fact

is that Ellen must have died
between 4:50 PM and 5:27 PM.

She could have killed herself

or someone could have
killed her well before 4:50.

This is why the police
and everybody else

locks in on this
time frame, right?

SARAH: Is because he left.
-They believe Sam.

Sam says, when I left at 4:50...

SARAH: She was fine.
-... she's alive.

SARAH: We know
that it can't have

happened before
this 1:42 phone call

because Ellen is not home.

She's getting gas at 1:26.

GUY: I think it's
significant that that day,

Ellen is choosing to
fill her gas tank up.

D'MICHELLE: Yes.

But, you know, a lot of people
do that when a storm's...

I mean, I do.

If a storm's coming,
I fill mine up.

GUY: But I'm saying, if she's
planning this evening when Sam

goes to the gym, I'm
going to take my life,

or at least considering
it... D'MICHELLE: True.

THOMAS: Yeah.
-... why fill your gas tank?

D'MICHELLE: Very
true. SARAH: Right.

Although most suicides,
a decision is made

with little time between
the decision and the act.

♪ ♪

[tense music]

♪ ♪

Clearly, nobody lives
in the apartment now.

And all of the items
here are replicated

as close as humanly possible to
the actual crime scene photos.

You do want the re-creation
to be as close as possible

because there's all these
things that start to click

and make sense when
you're in the space.

The language in the report
was all this stuff about,

there's no sign of a struggle.

A struggle doesn't have to be
tipped-over coffee tables and...

and drawers ripped out.

The way the knife
block is on its side

in an otherwise
orderly kitchen...

D'MICHELLE: And the
knives are scattered.

SARAH:... the knives
are scattered,

the death happens in an
extremely small area.

So the struggle is going
to be confined as well.

D'MICHELLE: And in
the autopsy report,

there is a dissection
of the strap muscles

of the neck, which is, in
my opinion, showing injury.

And the paragraph is textbook.

It's template of
a pristine neck.

♪ ♪

Looking at the autopsy photos,

it did look like
there was hemorrhage

in the strap
muscles of the neck,

like there was an injury there.

And what that means is
usually manual strangulation.

And my findings were aligned
with another forensic

pathologist who was
commissioned by the Greenbergs

to review this case.

Just because someone doesn't
have big, bruising thumbprints

or fingerprints on
their neck does not mean

that they were not strangled.

Oftentimes, they don't show up.

SARAH: The biggest
thing that people use

to explain it as a suicide is,

it's a locked door
mystery, right?

The classic locked door mystery,

that nobody else could
have been in here

with her because of this.

MELISSA: I personally
have done that.

I've locked myself out.

I shut the door hard,
and the latch came

and went right over top of it.

And then you're...
you're locked out.

So it's possible to do that.

Does it happen often? No.

But it can.

SARAH: The last known activity
on Ellen's computer is 4:46.

GUY: Sure.

Then, obviously, at 4:50
PM, which we know from CCTV,

he goes to the gym.

And then just 37 minutes later,

he's at the elevator
bay to go upstairs.

SARAH: Yeah.

So that's right around 5:30.

And now we see this avalanche

of text messages
and phone calls.

[line ringing]

In addition to the
calls made to Ellen,

he sends the following
text messages.

5:32, "Hello," with a bunch
of exclamation points.

Five seconds later,
"Open the door."

Three minutes later,
"What are you doing,"

question mark,
exclamation point,

question mark,
exclamation point.

And then we have about
a 13-minute window.

And he just says, "U
Better have an excuse."

Three minutes later,
"What the fuck,"

bunch of exclamation points.

Six minutes later,
A, bunch of Hs,

bunch of exclamation points.

Eight minutes after
that, "U have no idea."

Let's look at Sam's statements.

Sam told investigators
he'd been trying

to get into the apartment
for nearly an hour.

Right, here's what he thought
Ellen was doing for the hour,

which is why she didn't hear.

It was either she was...
this is his words.

She was showering, she
was doing her hair,

or she was doing work
with her headphones on.

SARAH: Right, and
we know for a fact

because we watch
him on the tapes.

And we see him in the
hall, and we see him

doing this other stuff.

And we see him come
up to the elevator

right around 6:28.

And then 6:30, we see 911.

D'MICHELLE: 10 feet.

SARAH: It feels
really obvious to us.

But could he or could he not
have noticed a knife blade

jutting out of her chest?

GUY: One of the first
things, even from a distance,

even from a photo,
the first thing

at least my eyes went
to was the knife.

Knife.

Behavioral analysis
is about recognizing

stimuli and response.

What stimuli would have
elicited this response?

20 stab wounds, such a
violent stabbing death.

So if she didn't die by suicide,

who, whether it's
somebody she knows or not,

was in a position to
have that reaction,

to react so strongly,

so quickly, and so aggressively?

[solemn music]

♪ ♪

SANDEE: In the beginning, we
sought marriage counseling.

We've had many, many,
many ups and downs.

We still love each other.

But there are times where
it's... it's a struggle.

-Can I have cream cheese?
-Mm-hmm.

OK.

Very good.

We felt Ellen was in a situation

where they'd have
a lovely marriage

after a beautiful wedding.

And they would live
together forever,

and we'd have grandchildren.

We've been together 45
years-plus... with her.

SANDEE: It's always in
the back of my mind,

I will never be a grandmother.

That's kind of a
tough pill to swallow.

But I don't dwell on it.

I just try to make
the best of every day.

And when I get
into bed at night,

I know I did everything I
could that day to, you know,

hold my head up and be who I am.

JOSH: Every day, I
think about Ellen.

Our life is trying to
get justice for Ellen

and move forward every day.

SANDEE: I'm very, very proud
of Josh and I and our efforts

to find out what really happened

to Ellen Rae Greenberg.

There's no gray area here.

There's no undecided in my mind.

The medical examiner,
with the stroke of a pen,

could change the cause
and manner of death

back to homicide.

What's holding them back?

[suspenseful music]

JOE: When we came
on board in 2019,

despite the passage
of eight years,

my assessment of the matter was,

from a legal standpoint,
it had no progress.

Remember, this is a
suicide. It's not a crime.

Nobody investigates.
Nobody prosecutes.

So the view that we had legally
was, that has to change.

We had pretty high
hurdles to get over.

It is a very high
standard to challenge

the discretionary decision by
the medical examiner's office.

There was a serious legal
barrier we had to deal with.

So we therefore said, let's ask
the medical examiner's office

to change voluntarily
the manner of death

from suicide to homicide.

And we gave, I think, 14 days.

Then we decided, enough.

Now we can go to court.

And that set off a lot
of media attention.

10 years ago, after the death
of their daughter in Manayunk,

a Pennsylvania couple
continues to fight for justice.

Authorities said it was suicide.

But her family continues
to believe otherwise.

Today her family is
pleading with investigators

to reopen the case,
saying new evidence

suggests it's a homicide.

JOE: The lawsuit allowed
us to finally get access

to the surveillance
tape of the complex

where Sam and Ellen resided.

This facility had
between 12 to 20 cameras.

So we had asked for that.

And the first response
was, it doesn't exist.

Well, hard to believe that
something as fundamental

as surveillance tape was
missed by the police.

We therefore said,
please go back and check.

We get a response back from
the solicitor's office.

No, the police have
confirmed there is

no surveillance footage
at all that they

have in their possession.

So we said, we're gonna
ask a court to get involved

in this, or you're gonna give us

an affidavit from somebody
in the police department

going on record saying
that there was no seizure

of the surveillance tape
and it doesn't exist.

We didn't get an affidavit
because nobody was

going on record saying that.

But we did get the solicitor's
office to come back and say,

oh, that surveillance tape!

[tense music]

♪ ♪

Now, that videotape is critical

because the medical examiner's
investigation report

indicated that Sam
Goldberg, the fiancé,

had been escorted
and was witnessed

breaking into the apartment,
where it was claimed

he then found Ellen.

And that witness was
a security guard.

And I will not forget this.

We watched, and we realized
that the footage discredited

that claim because Mr. Hanton
did not go up with the fiancé.

There was a report that said
I escorted Sam to the unit.

When I learned that,
I was really upset.

[somber music]

I want to be clear that
I'm not accusing anybody.

But then again, you're not
gonna lie on me, either.

I'm not allowed
to leave the post

other than for law enforcement.

It's real simple.

[dramatic music]

♪ ♪

JOE: In Sam's two interviews
with investigators,

he never expressly
states that anyone

was with him when he broke in.

However, while the police report

doesn't mention that
anyone was with Sam,

the medical examiner's
report does.

And that's the report that
Dr. Osbourne used to determine

Ellen's manner of death,

a report that included this
inaccurate information.

So now one of the critical
pieces of evidence

for why this was changed to
a suicide from a homicide

is completely false.

And we realize that something
is very, very wrong here

because, hey, we
weren't the first people

to look at this video.

It was looked at by the police.

How did they miss

the whereabouts of
the security officer

that disproves a huge
part of the claim

that she committed suicide?

So once we had that
videotape, we decided,

it's time to start talking
to people under oath.

And we moved to what
we call depositions.

ANNIE: The depositions
were the first time

that anybody was able to
hear what the main players

in the investigation
actually thought

and what actually happened.

DEPOSITION OFFICERS: Raise
your right hand, please.

Do you solemnly swear or affirm

that the testimony you're
about to give today

is the truth, the whole truth,

and nothing but the truth,

so help you God? ALL: I do.

DEPOSITION OFFICER: Doctor,
raise your right hand, please.

Do you swear or affirm
that the testimony

you're about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth,

and nothing but the truth?
-I do.

DEPOSITION OFFICER: Thank you.

JOE: Good morning, Dr. Gulino.

Good morning, Mr. Podraza.

JOE: And thank you, sir,
for taking the time.

I understand that your office...

When we went into the
depositions of the three

members from the medical
examiner's office,

we wanted to know, how
did this come about,

this determination of suicide?

What transpired?

[tense music]

During the depositions,
we had been told

there may have been a meeting.

The first time I was
aware of the case

was when I was asked to
participate in a meeting

that included the members

of the Philadelphia
Police Department,

Ann Ponterio of the
district attorney's office,

and Dr. Osbourne,
at which the police

wanted to present new
investigative information

to Dr. Osbourne.

♪ ♪

JOE: Based on the information
you had at the time

you were going to that meeting,

had you decided to change
the manner of death

from a homicide to suicide?

To the best of my knowledge,

I don't know that I made
a definitive decision

prior to that
meeting to change it.

JOE: At that
meeting, information

was shared that
convinced Dr. Osbourne

to change the manner of death
from homicide to a suicide.

Dr. Osbourne indicated
that at a meeting,

it was shared with him
that the fiancé had been

witnessed entering the apartment

when he found Ellen Greenberg.

Do you recall that
information being shared

at a meeting you attended?

I can't... I can't say that.

I don't know how Dr. Osbourne...

or if he ever
became aware of that

or how he became aware of that.

Unfortunately, there's not much

information or transparency
about who was at that meeting

or what they said.

JOE: This was an
important meeting.

Correct? MARLON: Yes.

JOE: Did you create a record
in writing of the meeting?

They said, we took no notes.

And they couldn't
remember who said what

or what was really said
that then led to a change.

I don't have...

I don't have notes
from that meeting, no.

JOE: Why not?

I do not have meeting...
notes from that meeting.

JOE: Why not?

I do not have notes
from that meeting.

JOE: And my question to you is,

if it's such an
important meeting,

why is there no written record?

MARLON: To answer your question,

I personally did not take
notes at that meeting.

However, all the information
gathered was documented

in other forms elsewhere.

Well, antennas again go up.

So Dr. Osbourne, we
asked him, you know,

why'd you say it was a homicide?

MARLON: At the time of autopsy,

I did believe

that I had enough information
to make that determination.

JOE: What we wanted to know is,

what did they learn
at that meeting

to change it from
homicide to suicide?

What is the best of your
recollection of what was said

by each of the participants?

The investigative officers
reviewed and answered questions

regarding the scene,
with nothing disturbed,

nothing out of place,

about the door locked
from the inside

and the boyfriend
having the, I believe,

front desk person witness
him breaking down the door.

JOE: But you hadn't
come to a conclusion

at the meeting.

Is that correct?

No, we were exchanging
information thus...

to get to the point
where I could basically

collect all the evidence
that supports homicide

and weigh it against whatever
evidence supports suicide

to see how I would... to
see which determination

I would make.

We knew we had one ace card.

And that was that the
fiancé was not witnessed

breaking through the door
by the security guard.

If you were told
there was a question

as to whether the fiancé
was accompanied by someone,

whether the fiancé
broke through the door,

whether the lock was
engaged when the wounds

were administered to Ellen,
that those were in question

and not decided,
would you have changed

your initial
determination of homicide

to suicide while those
questions remained open?

No, I would not.

I would end up somewhere
closer to undetermined

if those things are
still in question.

But that was not the case.

Every medical examiner
department has maybe 1% or so

of their cases as undetermined.

It leaves the case open.

And we want that so that
when new evidence comes in,

it's still open
to investigation.

That was not done in this case.

JOE: The last person who
we deposed was Dr. Emery,

who joined the medical
examiner's office

after Ellen's autopsy
many years later.

Good morning.

This is deposition
of Dr. Lyndsey Emery,

taken in 2021...

We did not really become
aware of Dr. Emery

until the medical
examiner's office said

that they asked this
neuropathologist

to do her own examination.

SAM: A primary question was
whether there was damage

to the spinal cord and
whether it could have

affected Ellen's ability

to then stab herself
in the chest.

GUY: Dr. Lyndsey Emery
is there to determine,

did the knife pierce
her spinal cord

where the knife entered
into the back of the neck?

STEPHANIE: The original report
says that the spinal cord

sheath was hit, which
would have possibly

made Ellen numb but would
have still allowed her

to continue to stab herself.

JOE: What were your conclusions?

My conclusions, essentially,
there are three possibilities.

One is that the sharp
force injury entered

into the vertebral column,
the cervical vertebra,

and pierced that dura

and just didn't go any farther.

The second possibility,

of which there are two arms to,

are that those injuries
happened point-blank

after she had been deceased

so that there would
be no reaction to it

or that that disruption I'm
seeing in the spinal cord

was a postmortem artifact

introduced during the autopsy.

She determined that one of
the cuts in the spinal cord

could have been the result
of three possibilities.

One of those possibilities
was that a stab wound

was a postmortem wound and
there was no hemorrhaging,

which essentially means
that Ellen would have had

to stab herself
after she was dead.

JOE: OK. Now...

Right then and there,
you hear Joe Podraza

in the deposition, shocked.

JOE:... I want you to
pretend you're a layperson.

Do I just understand
what you just said there,

is that Ellen suffered
wounds after she died?

I'm saying either
the wounds didn't...

That's one possibility, yes.

STEPHANIE: I know Podraza says
that she says that they're

definitely postmortem.

She doesn't definitely say that.

She says they could be, and she
gives multiple explanations.

One, there wasn't
enough time between

when the wound was
inflicted and when Ellen

died to cause a response.

Two, the wound didn't
disrupt the tissue enough.

Or three, Ellen was already dead

when the wound was inflicted.

ANNIE: That part
of the deposition

is what really grabbed
people's attention.

And the media and the public
started asking more questions.

JOE: It was at that point
that we began to say,

this was not just a mistake
or a difference of opinion.

Look, we want a
transparent investigation.

Let's finally know
what happened to Ellen.

[dramatic music]

JOSH: I'm speaking to the world.

I'm speaking to the world.

Ellen did not commit suicide.

Anybody who wants to read
that medical examiner's report

or anything, go ahead.

She didn't commit suicide.

Read the verification.

JOE: A conspiracy is when
one or more individuals

come together and participate

in doing something unlawful.

As far as we were concerned,
the city of Philadelphia

was hiding a homicide.

Now, you have to understand,
these are serious allegations

against public officials.

And that made headlines.

Look, we didn't
take this lightly.

And in fact, that's what
led to our second lawsuit,

which was a conspiracy lawsuit.

And the media kept
it front and center.

It kept it fresh.

Well, some serious
accusations made

inside a Philadelphia courtroom

about the alleged mishandling
of the death investigation

of a woman who died in 2011.

REPORTER: Nearly 14 years
after Ellen Greenberg

was found dead by her fiancé
in their Manayunk apartment,

her parents appeared in
a Philadelphia courtroom.

In December, a city
judge hears arguments

in the second lawsuit about
whether it should proceed

against defendants and
tells the Greenbergs

they have a fighting chance.

Today a judge in a civil suit

ruled that there is enough
evidence to go to trial.

Jury selection begins
Monday at 9:00 AM.

We also reached out to the
city and the police department.

They said they could not
comment on pending litigation.

The conspiracy case
was scheduled for trial

to begin on February 3rd.

And at that time, Dr. Osbourne
had his own counsel.

So we reached out to
that lawyer and said,

listen, we would be willing
to settle with Dr. Osbourne

if he comes clean, which
is to say that this

should not be a suicide.

And the Saturday before
the jury selection,

counsel for Dr. Osbourne
calls and says,

we have a deal.

And that set off a
firestorm of media.

REPORTER 1: The medical
examiner who performed

Ellen Greenberg's autopsy says
he no longer thinks her death

should be listed as a suicide.

REPORTER 2: In a verification
statement filed in the courts

this weekend,
Dr. Osbourne stated,

"Since issuing the
amended death certificate,

I have become aware of
additional information."

And, "It is my
professional opinion"

"Ellen's manner of death
should be designated

as something other
than suicide."

This is significant
because, once again,

the medical examiner who
conducted Ellen's autopsy

is changing his determination.

JOE: With Dr. Osbourne's
sworn statement saying this

shouldn't be a suicide
in our back pocket,

we proceeded then to go to
court on that Monday the 3rd.

[solemn music]

♪ ♪

SANDEE: Today is
very, very important.

We've waited 14 years
for this day to come,

to walk into a courthouse

in the Commonwealth
of Pennsylvania.

The story will speak for itself,

and it'll play out
in the public eye.

JOSH: I'm grateful.

I'm grateful I'm
still here to do this.

I was concerned about
it as we matured.

But I'm grateful
this... I'm gonna see

at least the start of it and
probably the finish of it.

And that's really important.

SANDEE: My goal
is to stay healthy

and stay focused and pave the
way for justice for Ellen.

[suspenseful music]

ANNIE: February 3rd
changed everything.

Even before jury
selection gets going,

suddenly, there was
a bombshell in court,

and you got widespread
media attention.

Jury selection was set
to begin this morning

in her parents' civil
lawsuit against the city.

Before jury selection
could get underway,

though, the family and
Philadelphia officials

reached an agreement to
reopen the investigation.

BRIAN: This is huge
for the Greenbergs,

who have been fighting to
clear their daughter's name

for more than a decade.

Suddenly, you had the city
now settling both cases

and agreeing to reopen
the investigation.

In a statement released
by the city today,

they said that the settlement
includes an independent review

of the autopsy file.

REPORTER: What tipped the
scales this morning, Joe?

What happened
behind closed doors?

Really, Dr. Osbourne's
verification.

That was the thing we've
been waiting for now

for over five years.

So the litigation as to
the Greenbergs and the city

has been resolved,
and we proceed forward

in getting justice for Ellen.

[solemn music]

SANDEE: I'm all out of tears.

I wish I could cry.

I used to cry about,
you know, everything.

That's true. But we won.

We did it.

I don't think it's
set in completely.

JOE: At the time that we
were discussing settlement,

I felt that what
was being offered

was more than fair,

that there'll be
a reconsideration

by the medical examiner's office

on an expeditious basis.

But when you don't have
the actual verdict,

that adrenaline that
comes from having

12 or more people
say, you're right,

you then tend to reflect.

And it's just natural.

♪ ♪

JOSH: As we sit here now,
the city has done nothing.

They didn't review the case.

They didn't do anything.

SANDEE: Nothing
has really changed.

And if they don't take a
look at the autopsy file,

then we will have to
probably take them to court

to enforce it.

JOE: Like everything else
in the legal process,

it takes time.

My view is, once the papers
are signed and exchanged,

no more than 30 days.

If we don't get a determination
from the medical examiner's

office in 30 days,
one way or the other,

then we'll go back to court
so that Sandee and Josh

know it's gonna get done and
be done by a certain date.

SANDEE: I can't
believe that we've

tried to go conventionally
through the system

and it's like we're
pedaling backwards.

They've tried every tool in
the book to get rid of us.

And we're here to stay.

♪ ♪

STEPHANIE: When every
door is shut before you

and every quest for
answers is stymied,

sometimes telling your story

is the only way to
get to the truth.

♪ ♪

In this case in
particular, the Greenbergs

told me they had so
many government agencies

let them down and make
them feel like they

were imagining things...

the medical examiner's
office, the police department,

the district attorney's office,

and the attorney
general's office,

all the way to
Governor Josh Shapiro

back when he was
attorney general.

These agencies
consistently maintain

their findings of suicide.

Governor Shapiro was asked
during a press conference

to comment on the
state of Ellen's case.

We received more
evidence, more information

during the course
of our investigation

that, sadly, didn't show
what they wanted it to show

but actually, rather, pointed
to more data, more information

that pointed toward a suicide.

A lot of what we
do as journalists

is to validate people,

to validate their concerns,

their hopes.

And even as those around
them try to close this down,

there are still many
unanswered questions

in this case about the
cause and circumstances

of Ellen's death, which is
still considered a suicide.

SANDEE: Sam's moved
on in his life.

He's married.

He has children.

But there is
absolutely no contact

or connection with them.

I don't think about him.

And I feel that we have
a God that I believe in.

And we have a justice system
that isn't exactly perfect,

but that's not for
me to reckon with.

THOMAS: The Greenbergs
have been through so much.

This roller coaster
that they've been on

and the manner in which they've
been treated and ignored...

They did everything
they possibly could

to stand in our way.

...what do they do?

♪ ♪

SANDEE: Here she is, the
star of our show, Ellen.

Who's that guy? Who's that guy?

Da. JOSH: Very good.

SANDEE: Very good. That's Dada.

[gentle music]

JOSH: How can you
resist that child?

How can you resist
that child, huh?

Look at her. PERSON:
She's a little ham.

SANDEE: There's cousin Ellie.

Ellie!

He was talking to
Ellen. It was so cute.

For WITF TV, I'm
Ellen Greenberg.

♪ ♪

DEBBIE: All these years
after Ellen's passing,

when I think about all
that Ellen has missed

or just, like, watching
everyone grow up

or growing up with them
or having a family,

it's just so sad that she
hasn't been part of our life

for this long.

ALYSON: Ellen set me
and my husband up.

And yeah, she was one
of my bridesmaids.

Obviously, she wasn't
there for my wedding.

But yeah, my daughter
is essentially

here because of Ellen.

♪ ♪

CAITLIN: I think when
it hit me most was,

I was going for a
walk with my parents

and my husband and my
young son at the time,

and I saw Ellen's mom

sitting on a picnic table

with her friends on
Ellen's birthday.

And I was with my family
that I got to have.

Those are the things that
you get sad thinking about,

that loss.

♪ ♪

PHIL: The thing that
I understand now

that makes me even sadder,

to know that your daughter
died in that manner

and you ain't got no answers,

it is unspeakable.

Sometimes I just
understand that justice

still won't be enough.

SANDEE: This is four
generations... my mom,

my grandmother,
myself, and Ellen.

For the amount of
time Ellen was alive

and part of this Earth,

she left a lot of
lasting impressions

on so many of us
in so many ways.

And your memories can
never be taken from you.

What a good girl.

Get ready. Get set. Go. Whee!

JOSH: Ellen.

SANDEE: She's enjoying it.

JOSH: Hello.

♪ ♪

I have excellent
memories of Ellen.

But there should be no other
parents in this situation

that I'm in or my wife's in.

♪ ♪

SANDEE: Whenever I find
coins on the ground,

they're pennies from heaven
or coins from heaven.

I have a big bowl with all
the coins that I've found,

and it's 90% full.

So I feel like we're
getting really close,

and I'm very optimistic.

If I could call Ellen right now

and just have her for a flash,

I would say, Mommy
and Daddy love you,

and we're proud of you.

♪ ♪

[somber music]

♪ ♪