Original subtitles

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night Lecturer: Satoshi Kon Assistant: Runa Nagai

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night Lecturer: Satoshi Kon Assistant: Runa Nagai Good evening. This is Kon, the director.

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night Lecturer: Satoshi Kon Assistant: Runa Nagai

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night Lecturer: Satoshi Kon Assistant: Runa Nagai We are finally at the last part, on this third evening.

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night Lecturer: Satoshi Kon Assistant: Runa Nagai

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night Lecturer: Satoshi Kon Assistant: Runa Nagai In terms of the movie, it is also heading towards a climax.

In terms of the movie, it is also heading towards a climax.

Mirna drifts between dreams and reality, as she doubts her own existence itself.

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night ~ Mirna drifts between dreams and reality, and then... ~ Mirna drifts between dreams and reality, as she doubts her own existence itself.

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night ~ Mima drifts between dreams and reality, and then... ~

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night ~ Mima drifts between dreams and reality, and then... ~ What kind of climax will she reach?

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night ~ Mima drifts between dreams and reality, and then... ~

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night ~ Mirna drifts between dreams and reality, and then... ~ I'd like to explain, as I incorporate things like storyboards of deleted cuts.

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night ~ Mima drifts between dreams and reality, and then... ~

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night ~ Mima drifts between dreams and reality, and then... ~ Now then...

"Perfect Blue" Lecture - Third Night ~ Mima drifts between dreams and reality, and then... ~

Good evening. This is the third night of the "Perfect Blue" lecture.

Well, today is finally the last part, and the movie is finally at the climax too.

Yes.

As for what kind of stories we will get to hear about today,

let us go straight to listening to the Director, Satoshi Kon.

Mima's nude photoshoot and the reborn CHAM! concert are depicted concurrently.

"Showing It Off" Mima's nude photoshoot and the reborn CHAM! concert are depicted concurrently.

"Showing It Off"

"Showing It Off" Mima's feelings of regret and what the fans desire,

"Showing It Off"

"Showing It Off" summon the virtual Mima to the concert venue, in a highly complex scene.

Summon the virtual Mima to the concert venue, in a highly complex scene.

Yes. It's complex, isn't it?

-Yes. -Even just reading about it is difficult.

Well, we now have Mima, the virtual Mima, and CHAM! all moving around.

And not only that, they're all proceeding at the same time.

So then, just now, this Mirna appeared from the middle of the poster.

She appeared as she overlapped it.

So this means that the guy called Uchida,

who was looking through the camera a moment ago,

is looking at the two reborn CHAM! members,

but is essentially seeing Mima between them.

So then, here inside this tunnel, the virtual Mirna makes an appearance again.

This is also the same as what I talked about earlier,

regarding entering the subjective view.

Well, just as one is entering deeper into that subjective view,

the scene is going into the tunnel.

The tunnel reflects the sodium vapor lamp lights and becomes orange-colored.

That is also symbolizing Mima's feelings at the same time.

So then, well, the issue is,

I wonder who was driving the car that the virtual Mirna was riding in just now.

On-site, the talk was that there's no doubt a virtual Tadokoro was driving.

Virtual Tadokoro? On-site, the talk was that there's no doubt a virtual Tadokoro was driving.

Mi w.» Mr,. > 1*'

Virtual Tadokoro? A virtual Tadokoro?

Mi w.» Mr,. > 1*'

Virtual Tadokoro? -Yes. -As in...?

-Yes. -As in...?

-You know, that boss of hers. -Oh! Right!

So, maybe that guy has a virtual self too, and he was the one driving.

Not that it matters, but...

Well, so then we have the remaining CHAM! members of Yukiko and Rei here.

Yes.

They utter a cryptic phrase.

About this time, she's probably "showing it off!" "Showing it off!"

"Showing it off" About this time, she's probably "showing it off!" "Showing it off!"

"Showing it off"

"Showing it off" What does "showing it off" really mean?

"Showing it off"

"Showing it off" -I sort of got it after the next scene. -You'd be right.

"Showing it off" As "Perfect Blue," the adult anime,

As "Perfect Blue," the adult anime,

it lives up to its reputation, by leading to this "showing it off" part.

That "showing it off" was of course not actually written in the script.

-Oh! Is that so? -After all,

Even the scriptwriter would've had a hard time typing that with a straight face.

Was there someone who was using that phrase?

I don't think there was. You see...

-During a discussion-- -And you, Director?

When I was having a meeting with the animator in charge of this scene,

that topic came up, so I was like, "We'll use that."

-"Showing it off."? Okay... -"Sh0wing it off."

Not bad, right? "Showing it off."

Sure.

Must be careful! This'll end up as sexual harassment.

I must behave politely.

But then, why would my voice have to change like that?

You know, you sound different than earlier too.

So, when the mind is cluttered, the room is cluttered.

Yes.

Nagai-kun, do you tend to keep your room clean?

Well, there are times when it's clean, but--

Mine is generally messy.

So then, Director, are things cluttered for you too, after all?

-We||... -Like internally speaking.

In terms of workable space, if I can just have this much to work with,

as long as just this much is clean, I'm fine.

Then the rest is like, "Where did I put that reference material?"

Or "Where's that setting?"

In that way, I guess my mind gets cluttered.

So then, well...

n

Yes.

By making it a modular bathroom, it was a little roomy and that was a mistake,

Bathroom By making it a modular bathroom, it was a little roomy and that was a mistake,

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Bathroom but generally, when you draw things,

'YQKJ w“

Bathroom there's a principle that everything gets a little wider.

There's a principle that everything gets a little wider.

-Oh, is that so? -|t's honestly rather difficult,

-to draw cramped things. -I see.

So, I think this was done well, comparatively speaking.

' “

So, from a while ago,

I've been talking quite a bit in one way or another about referencing.

-Now, as for being referenced... -Yes?

' ' |i'"'"|'| "Ti

Oh, is that so?

-It is. -Director, were you the one who found it?

Well, do you happen to know the movie, "Requiem for a Dream"?

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release) Well, do you happen to know the movie, "Requiem for a Dream"?

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release)

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release) My apologies, I don't know of that one.

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release)

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release) Well, it was filmed by the director, Darren Aronofsky.

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release)

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release) Okay.

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release)

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release) So, he debuted with the movie, "Pi."

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release)

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release) Okay.

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release)

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release) So then, I believe his second work was this movie, "Requiem for a Dream."

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release)

"Requiem for a Dream" (Director: Darren Aronofsky / 2000 release) Well...

Well...

He's the person who brought up that he wanted to do a live-action "Perfect Blue."

-A person from another country? Oh, okay. -Yes.

-So, he's from the U.S. -I see.

» ' '

-Apparently, this was a favorite of his. -Oh, okay.

So then, I actually met him,

when he came to Japan for "Requiem for a Dream."

-He wanted to have a discussion. -Oh! I see.

So then, of course, I watched that "Requiem for a Dream" beforehand.

Okay.

So then, it's this cut, with a bird's-eye-view,

where she's putting her face into the tub water.

So then, it's like she's about to suffocate.

So, that's--

At first, I kind of thought she was already floating.

Well, she's got her face in the water, you see?

So then, this is where she can't stand it anymore and says, "BASTARDS!!"

So then, it's these two cuts, just as they are.

The angles and composition are the same.

-The one from above and underwater? Okay. -Yes. That's right.

Well, they were used in "Requiem for a Dream."

So, when I met him in person and checked with him, he said it was an homage.

Homage So, when I met him in person and checked with him, he said it was an homage.

Homage

Homage It's an homage. To me.

Homage

Homage This me here.

R/.

So then, for "Requiem for a Dream," as to the person

who did Mima's part of taking a bath and putting her face in the water,

it was in fact, Jennifer Connelly.

-Oh! -Jennifer Connelly did that part.

Oh my...

Exactly per my storyboard.

By the way, I was on the same plane as Jennifer Connelly last year.

She was in first class, with her family.

I was in business class, so she got off before me.

So then, no chance to speak to her?

It's not as if I could've said, "Yo! Jennifer!"

And like, "How dare you plagiarize my work!"

I mean, it's not like Jennifer did that.

You know, you've been turning into many people for some time now.

Yes! It's hectic, isn't it? You could say I'm a chaotic person.

So then, well, within the movie, "Requiem for a Dream,"

well, there's an extremely old woman, well, an elderly woman.

So, she's always dreamed of being on TV,

and at the end, she's in a room and has a hallucination.

And it's like the people come out from the TV.

-So then, in the end-- -the story is also similar.

The dress the woman wears in her hallucination is like bright red.

Okay.

-I thought this was like really-- -It's overlapping quite a bit, isn't it?

Rather than overlapping, I was like, "Isn't this like plagiarizing!?“

But, when I met him in person, I was like, "So, about that...", and he said,

-"Oh no. That's all an homage." -An homage.

I learned something useful.

Moving forward, I'll use homage too, instead of reference.

Homage. You've said that a lot already today.

Honestly, this is full of homages.

After all, it's to that extent,

that when I create movies,

if there's a movie I love that I was really inspired by,

or one that left an impression on me,

then for sure, I can't help but pay homage to them.

You just have to pay homage to them.

-Yes. -All right.

Uchida, the stalker, is in his own room,

Uchida's Room Uchida, the stalker, is in his own room,

Uchida's Room that is overflowing with items related to Mima.

'

Uchida's Room This is a creepy scene where he is receiving a message from the virtual Mima.

'

-All right. -Yes.

Well, this is a room that's overflowing with things, even more than Mima's room.

-Yes. -Uchida's room.

So then, well,

-it never got as bad as this, but... -Yes?

When I was living by myself,

there were times when it got close to this state too.

And while there might've been a varying degree,

I'm sure there were many people who flinched at this.

-So, actually-- -Did you have like pop idol posters too?

-Oh! I didn't have stuff like that. -Oh! Okay.

. ‘ -

-Oh, is that so? -Yes.

So then, well, in any case, this is overflowing with things.

And Uchida, in his own way, is living his life surrounded by his favorite things,

and in that respect, after all, he's no different than Mirna.

He's also no different than the average person.

So, even though this looks totally messy,

I actually think there's probably an order to this, in Uchida's own way.

Like he has his clothes properly hanging there.

Exactly. So then, like that,

it's not as if things should just be located all over the place.

By the way, this is the background art design that I drew for Uchida's room.

For this kind of thing, well, the first animation job I was involved in,

was for this kind of background art design.

Okay.

Well, because I was impulsively drawing this kind of stuff, even as the director,

there were sharp observations made many times,

that this was why production was getting delayed.

So then, directors don't normally draw these things that much?

-Not really. -Oh, I see.

Well, for the background art design for "Perfect Blue,"

more than half of it was drawn by yours truly, as in, me.

So then, for the things that show up here, many of them are things that I have.

-My things. -Oh! Is that so?

It helps when one's struggling to draw things.

So then, this is roughly a 6 tatami mat room.

And, well, he probably removed the shoji screen and put the TV in the closet,

and probably, I think what's in the back are videos for collection purposes.

Well, especially for aficionados, well, you know,

there's the one for keeping and one for enjoying.

-You know? They like buy two of each. -Oh, got it. Okay.

So, that's kind of what you think about, as things are drawn and placed.

That's why this isn't just done in a jumbled mess.

Like, to some extent, undergarments could be inside the clear cases and such.

Well, for this case, they're actually books that are onscreen here.

So, at first glance, it looks all messy,

so if one doesn't think out the process of how to draw each item that's piled up,

then this kind of thing ends up just being messy after all.

So then, one shouldn't say it's a hassle.

It's about the kind of life he usually lives,

and how he decided to place his stuff, and things like that.

-To draw while thinking about that is-- -While thinking about that.

Well, it's fun, and so much so, that one might end up a shut-in recluse.

I mean, I shouldn't make fun of that sort of thing, but...

-By the way, this one is... -Okay.

-That's Mima's room. Right. -This is the setting for Mima's room.

At the time, since this was 1996, I was probably 33 years old.

So, within those 33 years, I hadn't really seen a woman's room that much.

-Okay. -What a lonely life, right?

Well, putting that aside, based off various resources--

-Okay. -I made this up.

What kind of resources did you base it off of?

-We||, we live in a world of convenience. -Yes.

So, for women living on their own,

there are photos collected in photobooks of their fully furnished flats.

X Full frontal photo book

X Full frontal photo book I'm not talking about full frontal ones; I mean fully furnished flat photobooks.

I'm not talking about full frontal ones; I mean fully furnished flat photobooks.

O Fully furnished flat photo book I'm not talking about full frontal ones; I mean fully furnished flat photobooks.

O Fully furnished flat photo book

O Fully furnished flat photo book For flats.

Oh no'.

-There I go with the sexual harassment. -|'m not the one saying anything.

Director, you're the one who's correcting yourself, on your own.

Yes, you're right.

Well, so, that's why for this kind of thing,

like here, there's a clutter of things,

but for example, as to why Mirna places the dried flowers here,

it's probably because she feels like she wants to preserve their original form.

That's why the virtual Mirna also ends up appearing in that form.

Maybe those flowers were probably received from a fan,

or maybe they're from for her birthday last year and she took care to make this.

So, I think about things like that,

such as this is the kind of stuff that Mirna receives from her fans,

and it's not like she likes stuffed animals,

but she can't throw away what someone went to the trouble of giving her,

and that's why there's quite a bit of stuff, and so on.

Those are the kinds of things I think about while drawing.

By the way, there's one more drawing.

This is inside the room, on the opposite side with the kitchen.

So then, for this kind of thing as well,

I think about how maybe she makes food here and cooks for herself,

or I wonder if she has a lot of clothes, and so on.

And this strange object you can see here is, well...

-A pizza maker? -Nope, not that. Well, it's a vacuum.

You see? The same vacuum that I used when I was living alone is here.

Not that it really matters. Yeah...

Do you use your personal items as reference when you're drawing?

So, people who can't even properly draw the personal things around them

also won't be able to draw the fictional world.

That is my creed, but when I say you should start from drawing personal things,

that doesn't necessarily mean to draw your own personal items.

But, you know, after all, for things like that,

what comes to mind are things that one is used to seeing.

-So, one ends up drawing on impulse. -I see.

So then, by the way, well...

-At this scene, well... -Yes?

The screen name that Uchida calls himself by is ME-MANIA.

W \

So, ME-MANIA means a mania for Mirna, so "Mima mania" got shortened to--

W \

And at the same time it means that, it includes the meaning of "I, mania."

-Oh! -As in, a "mania for me."

Oh! So instead of a mania for someone, he's a mania for himself.

-Yes, exactly. -Huh, okay...

So, in the end, even though Uchida says he's a fan of Mima and loves her,

- w A“ A

So, that's why, instead of Mima the actual person,

Uchida is the type who is pursuing the Mima who lives in his mind.

That's why he's rather closed-off.

So, that's why, in this kind of way,

the virtual Mima ends up being able to creep into his mind.

And that's kind of how it's set-up.

' “

-Yes. -All right.

Mirna visits the two CHAM! members,

The Director's Favorite Scene Mirna visits the two CHAM! members,

The Director's Favorite Scene who are serving as DJs for a radio program broadcast.

Y WI § Qigilii, hi"

The Director's Favorite Scene While she is there, Mima sees the figure of the virtual Mima,

y WI § Qigilii, hi"

The Director's Favorite Scene and this is an active scene where she frantically chases after her.

And this is an active scene where she frantically chases after her.

-All right. -Yes?

Well, although there's already been like a murder incident at this point,

there really hasn't been any breathtaking action onscreen yet.

There's been a lot of conventional acting,

but this is where we have the first action-packed scene.

So, the one who was in charge of this animation here is a key animation guy,

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Takeshi Honda and his name is Takeshi Honda.

o |. i l: I

Takeshi Honda And, well, on site, we have a habit of calling him, Takeshi Honda the Mentor.

And, well, on site, we have a habit of calling him, Takeshi Honda the Mentor.

Went freelance after working for Gainax. And, well, on site, we have a habit of calling him, Takeshi Honda the Mentor.

His nickname of "Mentor," And, well, on site, we have a habit of calling him, Takeshi Honda the Mentor.

His nickname of "Mentor," I see.

His nickname of "Mentor," Well, this here is an extremely amazing animation.

Is due to his overwhelming animation skills. Well, this here is an extremely amazing animation.

Is due to his overwhelming animation skills.

Is due to his overwhelming animation skills. -So then, this here-- -That must've hurt.

Is due to his overwhelming animation skills.

Is due to his overwhelming animation skills. So, as a director, I'm tremendously fond of this section.

So, as a director, I'm tremendously fond of this section.

His skill and things like how he makes girls look cute was really good.

So then, on my next movie, which was "Mi||enium Actress,"

I asked him to be the Director of Animation and do the character designs.

So, this is Takeshi Honda the Mentor's amazing animation.

He really draws accurately defined human figures,

1.;"w;;\ m w 'w m m" a \

So just now, there was the bird's-eye-view cut of the virtual Mima running away,

as Mirna chases her through the umbrellas.

As you can see, the row of umbrellas gets a little disarrayed.

That was also an homage.

"Ii; ' 7 '1 MI» V. 'Mix Q

-We||, this is one I did an homage to. -Oh, I see.

Well, so I assume you know the name, Alfred Hitchcock.

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock / 1940 release) Well, so I assume you know the name, Alfred Hitchcock.

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock/ 1940 release) Hitchcock. Yes.

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock/ 1940 release)

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock/ 1940 release) So, in the movie, "Foreign Correspondent,"

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock/ 1940 release)

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock / 1940 release) in a bird's-eye-view between umbrellas, like rows of umbrellas,

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock/ 1940 release)

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock/ 1940 release) a murderer runs away through the crowd.

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock/ 1940 release)

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock / 1940 release) So, the way the umbrellas are disarrayed shows the trajectory of escape.

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock/ 1940 release)

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock / 1940 release) -Was it filmed from above? -It is an excellent movie. Yes.

"Foreign Correspondent" (Director: Alfred Hitchcock / 1940 release) -Yes. It was an excellent scene. -I see.

-Yes. It was an excellent scene. -I see.

-|t's an homage where I had that in mind. -Right.

So then, this is where we have the two of them chasing one another.

In particular, I hope people will see the stair scene.

So, here we have the virtual Mima running away,

and when I say running, she's kind of enticing Mima, as she runs away.

And with that, we have Mirna chasing after her,

and it's as if their movements are connected like they're synchronized.

Well, when you see the two of them,

it's like it was done by cutting in action.

So that is basically what it is,

because after all, they're essentially the same person.

So then, that's connected in a really delightful way,

and furthermore, well, there's the two remaining Neon Tetras.

Well, in the sense that this reminds the audience of those two fishes,

I think this became an extremely amazing scene.

Given that "Perfect Blue" was my directorial debut,

when I think about it even now, I was really embarrassingly inadequate.

So, well, when I look back at it, my heart really aches,

but this scene was truly well done.

-You can say that with confidence. -Yes.

Is it among one of your most favorite scenes?

That's right. It's a scene I really like.

' “

So...

There were about 100 cuts that I originally wanted to do,

Deleted Scene There were about 100 cuts that I originally wanted to do,

||iil§§ll

Deleted Scene but I wasn't able to make them.

||iil§§ll

Deleted Scene I see. At least 100 cuts?

||iil§§ll

Deleted Scene Yes. So, afterwards, when I looked back, this scene was the one part

Yes. So, afterwards, when I looked back, this scene was the one part

that I shouldn't have cut, no matter what, so I truly regret that.

So, well, there were the two remaining Tetras,

and from the other side, in other words, from the opposite side of the fish tank,

there was a close-up of Mima looking at the monitor, like this.

And then, this is the drawing that appeared a moment ago.

So, it's dark, as the lights are turned off,

and she's just watching the monitor in the dark room.

So, some of this section did appear in the movie.

And she's saying that she went shopping.

This part was also used, right?

That's right. This part mostly appeared too.

So then, the Neon Tetras were supposed to pass by in front here.

-In front of what? -In front of her face here.

Oh, okay.

And then...

Gurgle, gurgle, gurgle-

-Is that in an imaginary world? -That's right.

Since that's being shown from this side of the fish tank,

the tropical fish pass by like that.

But actually, I had wanted to connect it in a way,

so that the inside of the room was already filled with water.

' “

And then she begins to float up.

Oh! So, she's floating.

-Yes, this entire room is filled. -Just Mima.

Yes. It's like the water's filled up, just in the room.

So, she gurgles as she's suffocating and begins to float up--

“I \ 1V- D » H IQ, 'Y I L'?

Yes, she weightlessly floats up.

Okay.

And that's the scene I absolutely wanted to make, but...

' “

-It ended up being cut. -Yes.

\ V ' " ~ ;~,_/. .. ,\\ H M K,' v1: m ' ..

There wasn't enough money or time.

Well, rather than money, the way I made cuts was inadequate after all.

In this way, I had to make it even just a little shorter,

as things were tight in terms of production schedule.

Honestly, I was doing it like I needed to cut even just another second,

or two seconds kind of way, so it couldn't be helped, but...

Well, still, just this one part...

You know, it's a really cool scene.

Well said! I like that. I'm very happy to hear you say that.

-But, you know-- -That's too bad.

For people who've seen the movie, if they look at the storyboard for this scene,

then I think it's possible for them to imagine this drawing.

-So this was a very valuable opportunity. -Yes.

When Mirna returns to her room, she realizes it is an imitation,

Virtual Mima's Room When Mirna returns to her room, she realizes it is an imitation,

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Virtual Mima's Room that had been made to look exactly like her own room.

.\V,'“V “I 1,, ;. J w“ WM...“ m » ~-H

Virtual Mima's Room All right. Finally from around this point, we find out who the culprit is,

All right. Finally from around this point, we find out who the culprit is,

and things begin to move towards the climax.

Yes.

So, all the meticulousness in the first half, of drawing these knickknacks,

and the inside of the room in detail, finally has great meaning here.

Yes.

So, of course, I like this as a scene, but also--

-I see. This part is scary, you know? -Well...

It's super scary to think a room was made somewhere,

-that's exactly like your own, right? -Yes.

As a concept, I really like this part.

This part is really scary.

Honestly, I went all out and did as I please here.

Rumi wearing this costume makes her like totally different,

compared to the impression I've had of her from her appearances up until now.

That's true. Especially since she's a pretty good person.

-Also, her outfits and the way she talks. -Yes.

-She's like totally different than Mirna. -That's true.

That makes her even more scary.

So, as to just exactly what makes this scary,

there is her actual look that's reflected in the mirror, which is scary, but...

It's also not like this room was set up in one day, right?

Right. Yes.

-So then-- -How did she do it?

She completed it, little by little.

Not only that, I think she probably updated the website from here too.

So, during that time, it's scary to think about what she might've been wearing,

-or what she might've been doing, right? -That's right.

That is scary.

That's why in terms of scariness, there's the direct kind,

but there's also scariness in the time that's not depicted in the movie.

If I could draw a lot more of that,

whether it be scariness or happiness or sadness,

I think I could depict things like that in a bigger way.

So this is something I'm rather fond of.

These two aren't conversing on the same wavelength at all, you know?

-And then she suddenly starts singing. -That is scary.

That's honestly really scary.

You know, it's like, "Hey! Listen to me!"

I don't know why,

-but this room scene is extremely scary. -It's scary. This is scary, isn't it?

Honestly, this was a really fun scene, in terms of directing as well.

It's like when it comes to people who have gone a little crazy,

they're beyond my comprehension, so that's scary, you know?

Exactly.

It's like I honestly think they can't be reasoned with anymore.

Right? It's like, "What do I do?"

Yes. People who've gone crazy are beyond reasoning,

-so that's why they're scary. -Right. They're scary.

If they're depicted so that they can be understood, then they're no longer scary.

The fact she's doing that while she's laughing is, well...

-Yes. for this part, it's like-- -Oh no!

"What the heck kind of reasoning is that?"

Well, the thing is, if one suddenly created a scene like this,

that truly wouldn't be realistic for sure.

But given that there was a lot of buildup for this, I thought it could be allowed.

' “

That's why, even if someone just brings up this part and says it's sloppy,

well, I'd say that it's not like that.

It's these kinds of subjectivity and objectivity, or drama,

or things like dreams and all that stuff, that is then built up in detail.

So then, the result is that this kind of violence can be allowed.

I'd like it to be allowed. Please allow it, okay?

So, the animation for this scene is also really fantastic.

I'm sure there's lots of talk about how if she fell from a place like that,

wouldn't she break a bone or something, but adrenaline is flowing, so she's okay.

Adrenaline is flowing, so she's okay. wouldn't she break a bone or something, but adrenaline is flowing, so she's okay.

Adrenaline is flowing, so she's okay.

Adrenaline is flowing, so she's okay. The adrenaline is going to save her.

Adrenaline is flowing, so she's okay.

Most likely though, she's probably broken a bone.

She'll run, even if something's broken.

So from here, I wanted to change the mood leading up to the chase for the climax.

So now, there's the city, that hadn't appeared until now.

This would be the back alleys, just like I said about front and back--

Hv,~\\ R 'y ~ ~ a »,- \ - 4h.

-|t's the top of an arcade. -An arcade?

So, you know how shopping streets can have arcades, right?

The top of an arcade is built so that one can walk on top of it like this.

Arcade, as in the thing that goes above a street?

-Yes, that's right. -Oh, okay.

So, as to why I wanted to make it this kind of location,

well, there's the Sunroad at Kichijoji.

Is the movie set in Kichijoji?

That's not exactly the case, but the Kichijoji Sunroad has an arcade like this.

So, there was an idiot director who got drunk and walked on top of it.

Real experience of walking on arcade top.

Real experience of walking on arcade top. I wonder where we'd find that director.

Real experience of walking on arcade top.

Real experience of walking on arcade top. Well... Right here.

Real experience of walking on arcade top.

So, well, there was another director who climbed up there at the same time.

-Who would that be? -Well...

It was Koji Morimoto who was there.

Koji Morimoto It was Koji Morimoto who was there.

It was Koji Morimoto who was there.

After working at MADHOUSE, It was Koji Morimoto who was there.

After working at MADHOUSE,

After working at MADHOUSE, There was the anime movie anthology, "Memories," including "Magnetic Rose,"

currently thriving mainly at STUD|O4°C. There was the anime movie anthology, "Memories," including "Magnetic Rose,"

currently thriving mainly at STUD|O4°C.

Currently thriving mainly at STUD|O4°C. and while we were working on that, the two of us would often go bar hopping.

Currently thriving mainly at STUD|O4°C.

Currently thriving mainly at STUD|O4°C. On a drunken impulse, I'd said, "Let's go up there."

Currently thriving mainly at STUD|O4°C.

Currently thriving mainly at STUD|O4°C. So, we were walking on it. I mean, honestly, it's dangerous.

So, we were walking on it. I mean, honestly, it's dangerous.

It's just that, well, the view we could see from there was really amazing.

It's normally not a place anyone ever goes to,

but to look down from there on that city,

it truly felt like the front and back sides were neatly divided,

as if they were split open.

Since it was such an amazing view, I tried using it here.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean that this is Kichijoji.

So, to be honest, I wanted more here.

Right down there, that's probably like a diner or something,

and you can see the customers.

Basically, I wanted to create a situation where even though there are people there,

-she couldn't get help. -They don't realize she's there, right?

I mean, for the people who're eating there,

it'd be unrealistic for them to even think that there's someone running up there.

So then, well, Mirna gets further cornered here, and...

She says, "PLEASE WAKE UP!"

And then they fall further down.

And then, well, she continues to run away.

So for here as well, and it's not quite as if I got close but no cigar,

and I wouldn't say I still regret it now, but there were deleted cuts.

-Oh! Is that so? -Yes. Let's see...

-Is it this? Here you go. -Yes.

So then, let's see...

"Please! Rumi, it's you, isn't it!?" "PLEASE WAKE UP!"

"YOU'RE the one who needs to wake up!"

I mean, honestly, that's how you read these and act them out.

Okay.

Along with wearing the costume. The bright red costume--

-As in you, Director? -I'm just kidding!

But honestly, one should be doing this with that much feeling.

So then, she says, "Oh!" and...

Well, they fall, and...

-So, this part was still in the movie. -Yeah. And they land with a thud.

-And it's from here. Yes. -Yes. It got cut from there. Okay.

So, the deleted cuts start from here.

After they fall with a thud, there's a "What the!?"

"3 youths hanging out."

"From the left, they're numbers 1, 2, 3." They've sure got presence, you know?

Well, let's say they're Atsushi, Jun, and Chichi. Not that it matters.

So then, these three are watching.

So, this cut did appear a moment ago.

She gets up from the garbage bags and begins to run.

So then, in the deleted cuts, well...

After getting up, Mima heads towards the youths.

-Okay. -She dashes over to them.

She says, "Help me!" "Please help me!"

"Whaddya want?" "Help me! Please help me!" "Huh!?"

So, they're saying that, but naturally, their moods are different.

So then, we have a Mirna who's asking people for help.

And then this guy notices something and says, "Huh!?"

Naturally, from the youths' viewpoint,

the subjective view is irrelevant.

Right. Okay.

They see a weird, well-built woman who's approaching middle age, with an umbrella,

and she's wearing a bright red dress as she comes swinging with the umbrella.

She dashes over,

and obviously she's trying to aim for Mirna, but...

Because Mina noticed and moved out of the way, this youth...

Which one was he? Was he Chichi? Well, doesn't matter.

What I? By any chance...

And then, "Clash!"

What I? Poor guy.

Yeah. "From the throat of youth #3,"

-"blood spurts out, like in manga." -"blood spurts out, like in manga"!?

"spurts out-u“?

Yeah, "spurts out." That might be too much blood.

I enjoy and feel okay writing things like "spurt," for this kind of brutal scene.

And then, the umbrella is swiftly pulled out.

So then, this time, this is Mima's subjective view,

since this drawing is from her viewpoint,

so it pans to the side of Mima's subjective view like this,

and then instead of Rumi, there's the figure of the virtual Mima.

And then she begins to chase after her,

"n Ii " "

' “

So, well, due to various reasons, this ended up as deleted cuts.

1 ~ /-

Was that also because of time issues, after all?

That's right. And well, thanks to that,

there didn't have to be any needless killing.

Ffight'?

Well, I did think that I shouldn't have them appear, just so they can be killed.

But, well, that's where you want to rapidly hype things up, right?

-Rumi is like alarming here. -She's alarming.

So then, Mima is being chased, and...

Yet again, with the umbrella.

-Ouch! -Ouch!

-Ouch! -She'd be dead by now with that, right?

-Ouch... -And then, here...

Well... She's like, "oh!"

‘\\‘

Oh, that's right. From behind.

So...

Well, she comes up. So, this--

Oh! This time, she's...

So, the reason why Mima doesn't see Rumi this time as the virtual Mima,

I? 1m"

Okay.

So, Mirna looks at the mirror, and it suddenly hits her.

So, ever since the middle of the movie,

the key phrase, "Who are you?" has been repeated over and over, right?

Yes.

So, "Who are you? Who are you?" has been used like a key phrase.

~. ii

So then, "Who are you?" is in fact,

"Who am I?" That's what it means in this case, right?

So, in the end, she's been saying, "Who are you?"

Towards the virtual Mirna, who she's been chasing after.

So, basically, that ends up meaning, "Who am I?"

So then, well, she's being chased by the virtual Mirna now,

so essentially, by her past self.

She's being chased all over by her past self,

and she sees the mirror here and it suddenly hits her.

So, there's "Who am I?" and "Who are you?"

In other words, for the question that is "Who am I?", in the end,

it's saying, "I can only be me."

So, that doesn't seem like it's answered anything, but...

Well, it can be called tautology, the needless repetition of an idea,

but in the end, Mirna makes the sudden realization that "I can only be me."

So, in that extremely agonizing state, she looks at her own face and she's like,

"Oh! That's right. I'm me!"

It's not as if Mima thought it logically to that extent,

but probably, I think it's precisely because she was in agony and being chased,

that she suddenly noticed her own face.

That's why, now that she's realized that, I think it's fine,

Realization That's why, now that she's realized that, I think it's fine,

1;; M D Pu

Realization -that Rumi is reflected in the mirror. -That's not me.

-That Rumi is reflected in the mirror. -That's not me.

-Yes. Something that's not me is coming. -Right.

After the incident, Mima has become successful as an actor,

Farewell to the Past ~ Epilogue After the incident, Mima has become successful as an actor,

Farewell to the Past ~ Epilogue

Farewell to the Past ~ Epilogue and this is the epilogue where she visits Rumi, who is in a hospital.

Farewell to the Past ~ Epilogue

Farewell to the Past ~ Epilogue All right. Finally, the "Perfect Blue" movie story is also at the last scene--

All right. Finally, the "Perfect Blue" movie story is also at the last scene--

-We're at the last part. -Yes.

Well, this is where Rumi is, who most likely has a mental disorder,

and probably still thinks she is Mirna.

So then, well, we have Mima there;

a bit more mature Mirna, who is watching.

And when I say she's watching,

what's important here is that she's looking through the glass,

which at the time I thought that was probably important.

' “

So, instead of watching directly,

she's watching in a filtered condition through a pane of glass.

In other words, that means she's watching objectively, right?

-Watching Rumi objectively? -That's right.

So then, in this scene where the doctor is inquiring after her, well, Mirna says,

"I know I'll never see HER ever again."

"But, thanks to her, I am who I am today."

Although she's saying things like that, the "thanks to her" refers to,

in a direct kind of way, towards Rumi, who had worked hard as her manager,

but it's also referring to Mima's past self.

That's why, Mirna as an actor, and I think she's probably become successful here,

or maybe she's not an actor,

but in any case, after the incident occurred,

well, she's achieved enough success,

to the point where the nurses are gossiping,

as to whether that was Mirna Kirigoe or not.

With that being said, in order to achieve this success,

she was able to do so because of her past self, where she was a pop idol.

And this is also because there was a person called Rumi,

who really took good care of her at the time.

That's how she is who she is presently, so when she says it's "thanks to her,"

that means the "her" refers to both of them.

So then, on the other hand, for Rumi here, it's about the past.

She's a person who's trapped in her past and can no longer get out.

So, that's why we have her and this mirror world,

where she's a person trapped in her own fantasy world that the mirror reflects,

and she can no longer get out from there.

As for Mirna, that was where, well,

when she was about to be trapped by her past self, she somehow repelled it,

and she did in fact fight off her "past self," who attacked her.

Well, by doing so, she was able to move on to the next stage.

So, I think there's a difference between those who grow up,

and those who end up getting caught up in the past.

So then, for the last cut...

So then, after this, they're wondering if that was Mima Kirigoe

and saying there's no way she "would be HERE of all places!" and so on.

And then she takes off her sunglasses.

This is where she says, "No, I'm real!"

And that becomes the last line, but...

Why is this shown in the mirror?

What is the meaning of the last cut?

What is the meaning of the last cut? So, well, this can be open to various interpretations.

So, well, this can be open to various interpretations.

And it's fine with me as to what people make of it.

Well, among the unusual interpretations,

some think that Mima was probably the culprit after all.

That's what I thought for a moment, so at the end when this was over,

I was wondering if maybe it's not the way I was thinking.

-And this scene can make you think that. -Yes.

-So actually... -You're right.

It's like, actually, in the end, what was that about?

Well, let's see, who was it...?

Well, it was probably when I went to a film festival abroad,

-and I was asked something like that. -Okay.

It was like, "Since she's saying that in the mirror,

that definitely means it's a lie, right?" And that's kind of what was said.

So, I really didn't intend to make this to trick people to that extent.

Well, the point is, through a certain incident,

Mima took a step to become more mature.

So, compared to before, there is no doubt she's able to have a firm sense of self.

-We||, in other words, she's grown up. -Right.

So then, it's not just that she was able to part ways with her past self,

and mature into her steadfast self,

and I don't think the matter is that simple in terms of being human.

So, well, it's not like if you grow up once,

then you don't have to mature more after that.

You destroy those kinds of past personal values,

and then go through a tough chaotic period,

and then from that, you once again build something up,

and take a step to become more mature.

So then, I think this repetition is probably something that continues forever.

So, if I had shown Mima's face here directly instead of in the mirror,

I get the feeling things would wind up just ending at that point.

That's why she's like saying, "|'m still going to keep on going,"

and that "this doesn't really mean everything is accomplished."

She says, "No, I'm real!",

but she has doubts about that phrase itself, and that's my take.

So that's where she hasn't finished becoming the real Mima,

and by continuing what she's doing, she'll become the real Mirna.

So for Mirna at this point,

it's not as if she's completely finished becoming the person called Mirna Kirigoe,

which is why I had her shown in the mirror here,

‘ " i i i i

Does that mean there can be various other interpretations?

Yes it's okay! Besides, isn't it enriching when there are lots of interpretations?

Yes.

And therefore, exactly as I just stated,

it doesn't necessarily mean that what I'm saying is correct.

So really, it's fine if she's shown in the mirror for a different reason,

or that since she's shown in the mirror, that actually means Mirna was the culprit,

and that there are people who think that way, and that's totally fine with me.

It's like because I thought that way, conversely, the ending was very scary.

-I see. -I was like, "Oh, maybe... Oh! What!?"

I did think that actually, it might've been Mirna.

I see what you mean. It's not really a big percentage,

but among the people that have let me know their opinions,

occasionally, I have received discussions where it's like,

"Actually, you're tricking us, aren't you?", kind of thing.

So, when that happens, I'm thinking, "Gotcha!"

After all, I think it's better that people will think about it in various ways.

Since the devices that were used are amazing, it makes one think, you know?

I mean, really, not just here, but in other parts as well.

That's true. For example, you know how magic tricks are mysterious, right?

So then, if you think that magic tricks can't be that mysterious,

and you aren't satisfied, so you end up revealing how it's done,

then you can't enjoy the magic trick anymore, right?

That's why, to be able keep thinking it's mysterious is how one enjoys magic tricks.

So then, if things are analyzed too much,

then, well, one ends up not being able to enjoy them.

Right? Like, "How does this image appear here?",

or "What principles make this DVD show images?",

are things that I don't know the details of.

But, if I took apart this machine, I wouldn't be able to watch DVDs anymore.

In the same way, I think it's better,

that something that functions as a whole should be enjoyed as a whole.

Well, that being said, I did include

-some rather overzealous explanations. -They were quite detailed.

You did explain a lot of things to us.

Yes.

Did all the spoilers get revealed?

Not to worry!

The "Perfect Blue" lecture was broadcast over three consecutive nights.

What did everyone think about it?

>11; 1 * m, u, m» A.

-Yes, thank you. -No, not at all.

And you, Nagai-kun, what did you think about it?

You suddenly changed again.

Yes! Finally, at the end, my "character" has returned.

Well, it's difficult to keep this up for a long time, even for me.

Well... To stay in character is a rather difficult thing.

It seems like you're gradually returning to normal.

Yeah, it reverts right away.

-That "character" doesn't last at all. -Right!

What did you think? I mean, one could say,

it might've been a lot of overzealous explanations, but--

It was really like, well...

I really got to understand the stage of when things are like being created.

And from now on, whether it's a movie or anything like that,

when I look at such a work, it's like I get the feeling

I might end up searching for what the author's intentions were.

On the other hand, if I do that, I wonder about that, you know?

Maybe I won't be able to enjoy the movie then.

-No, I don't think that'll be the case. -You think so?

Well, the more you understand the various devices,

I think you can probably enjoy a movie in greater depth.

However, well, how do I say this...?

So, well, the explanations up until now,

have essentially been mostly parts that I intentionally devised, I think.

' “

So then, well, actually,

the most interesting thing isn't a part that's done intentionally.

-So, it just happens to-- -Show up that way.

So, actually, for me, I also think that things like that can be interesting.

That's why for something like my explanations on my crafty devices,

well, honestly, they're like extra entertainment.

So, I think it's fine that each person has their own interesting interpretations.

Are there still things that you haven't fully explained?

Like things you've kept secret.

Well, there aren't any secrets, so to speak,

but a few years ago, when I looked back on "Perfect Blue,"

and also for this occasion when I reassessed it,

I strongly felt in particular that there was a strange coincidence.

That being said, this is just a personal issue, but in regard to "Perfect Blue,"

I actually thought that who was being killed was important.

If?

-After you finished making it? Okay. -Yes.

So then, well, to be specific, the people who were killed were...

-Well, Shibuya, the scriptwriter. Right? -Okay

-Murano, the photographer. -Okay.

-Well, Tadokoro, the manager. -Right.

-And Uchida, the stalker. -Yes.

So then, well, these four people actually did die,

and this is just my interpretation.

Shibuya, the scriptwriter, is essentially the type of person I dislike.

You see, he panders to his clients and writes trashy stories,

so he's that kind of guy.

-And as for Murano, the photographer... -Yes?

Well, I don't think he's a bad person, but he's like a pretentious artist.

Q KEY-

Or the kind of person who's publicly treated like an artist.

Okay.

Well, he had some strange expressions and words and behavior, you know?

And as for Tadokoro, the manager, he's the type who tries to control people.

And then, well, Uchida, the stalker, is a warped fan.

So, they can be described differently in that way, right?

Basically, I reject those kinds of things.

-As a director? -As myself, Satoshi Kon.

So then, Director, the ones who got killed are the type of people you dislike.

-Probably. -Sort of.

-So then, that means... -Yes?

-So this is after "Perfect Blue," okay? -Okay.

Well, I have no intention of pandering to the audience,

-and making trashy stories. -Right. Okay.

And I'm not the least bit willing to be like a pretentious artist.

And, well, I absolutely hate being controlled by people.

And I'd have even more of a problem, if I'm approached by a warped fan.

Then have you've experienced being approached by a warped fan kind of thing?

Nagai-kun, you're more likely to have been through that.

Well, I mean, I've been through that, with like E-mails.

Oh, is that so?

Yes. I've inadvertently answered the phone too.

Ah, okay.

I was surprised when some stranger said that we should collaborate.

"We should collaborate." I was surprised when some stranger said that we should collaborate.

1p. '3 'L'. Man' '

"We should collaborate." I was like, "Excuse me!?" "Who are you?"

I was like, "Excuse me!?" "Who are you?"

So he was like saying he was so-and-so, and then I asked what he was doing.

He says, "No, I'm going to do something from now, so we should collaborate."

I was like, "That doesn't make sense."

-We||, in any case-- -Yes?

As I mentioned earlier, well,

as I look back at "Perfect Blue" now, what comes to mind in particular,

is that I was at the stage of a directorial debut,

and without realizing it,

I was actually declaring my future way of being, so to speak.

So, I think that kind of coincidence was interesting, you know?

-All right! It's been really-- -Thank you for your time.

Well, we discussed various topics from specific stories,

-all the way to abstract ones. -Yes, It was incredibly...

-Informative. I learned a lot. -All right.

Yes, thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

-We||, until we meet again somewhere. -Yes!

Surrounded by the students of Musabi.

Translator: Ryoko Sake