All language subtitles for Shoah.Part4.1985.SDH_eng

[Train Clacking ]

[ Woman, In English]
In Theresienstadt,

this time it reached us,
the transport to the east.

[Train Whistle Blows]

We were loaded
into these wagons for cattle.

RUTH ELIAS - ISRAEL
Deported from Theresienstadt

[ Clacking Continues ]

And it went for two days...

[ Clacking Fades ]

and one night.

- [ Lanzmann ] In wintertime?
- The second day...

It was December,

but it was warm inside

because we made the heat.

We heated it up with our temperature,
body temperature.

One evening, the train came to a stop,

the next day in the evening,

and the doors were opened.

And there was a terrible screaming.

“Out! Out! Out! Out!”

We were shocked. We didn't know
what's going on, where we are.

We saw only SS with dogs.

And we saw, in the distance,
in symme... in symmetric lights there,

but we didn't know where we are,

what the lights,
the thousands of lights, were meaning.

We only heard this shouting.

“Out! Out! Out!” And we...
- [ Lanzmann ] “Raus!”

Yes, just exactly.

And, “ Schnell! Schnell! Schnell!”

Out we came of these wagons.

We had to line up.

And there were some people
with striped uniforms.

We didn't know what the stripes are.

And I asked one in Czech,
“Where are we?”

And it was a Polish who understood my Czech,
and he told me, “Auschwitz,”

but it didn't mean anything to me.

What is Auschwitz?

I didn't know about Auschwitz anything.

We were /ed into a so-cal/ed family camp,
Familienlager B Zwei B,

children, men and women together,

without any selection beforehand.

Men from the Ménnerlager,

they came in and told us

that Auschwitz is a Verriuzhtungsmtger,

where they are burning people,

and we didn't believe.

In this camp,
there was already e transport'

who left Theresienstadt in September,

three months before us.

They didn't believe too,
because we were all together,

and nobody was taken away,
and nobody was burned.

We didn't believe it.

[ Vrba, In English]
Those Czech Jews from Theresienstadt,

from the ghetto near Prague,

came into one particular part of the camp,

which was cal/ed “Bauabschnitt Zwei B,” ”ll B. ”

At that time, I was working
as a registrar in II A.

The division between II A and II B
was only one electrical fence,

through which nobody could climb,
but you could speak through it.

In the morning,
I could sort out the whole situation.

There were a number
of surprising circumstances.

The families...

this means men, women and children...

were taken together,

and nobody was gassed.

They took with them
their luggage into the camp,

and they were not sham.

Their hair was left.

So they were in a different position

than anything
which I have seen until now.

I didn't know what to think about it,
and nobody knew.

But in the main registrafs office,

it was known that all those people
have got special cards,

which had a remark on them:

“SB mit sechsmonatiger Quaranténe.”

“SB we knew what it means:

“Sonderbehandmng which meant “gassing.”

And “Quaranténe
also we knew what it means.

But it didn't make sense to us

that somebody should be kept
in the camp for six months

in order to be gassed after six months.

Therefore, it was left
open to interpretation

if “SB “Sonderbehancflung
always means death in gas chamber

or if perhaps it has got a double meaning.

And the six months
were supposed to elapse on March 7.

In December,
and I think it was close to December 20,

another transport of...
from Theresienstadt came,

also about 4,000 people strong,

which was added to the first transport
into the camp B ll B.

Also, men, women and children
were left together.

Families were not torn apart,
old people, young people.

Everything was... remained intact.

And their hair was left,
and their personal property was left.

They could wear civil clothes,
whatever they had.

They were given
a sort of a different treatment.

A school was arranged
for the children in a special barrack.

The children soon made a theater there.

And also it was not really a very
comfortable life, because they were cramped,

and, from the first 4,000 people
during the first six months,

the mortality was about a thousand.

One thousand died.
- [ Lanzmann ] Were they obliged to work?

Yes, they had to work,
but only inside their camp.

They were making a new camp road,

and they were ornamenting the barracks.

They were induced to write letters,

induced to write letters by the SS,

uh, to their relatives
in the Theresienstadt ghetto,

saying that they are all together, et cetera.

They had better conditions
of food, for instance?

Definitely better conditions of food,
better conditions of treatment.

I mean, the conditions were so good

that, within six months,

including the old people and children,
only one quarter of them died.

I mean, this was a very unusually
good condition in Auschwitz.

And, uh, to the children's theater,

the SS used to come there
and play with the children.

Personal relationships were struck up.

And, of course, uh,
one of my tasks as a registrar

was to find out the possibility
of people who are resistance...

who have got a mind for resistance,

and to strike up with them a relationship

and contact, and...

- You were already a member of...
- The Resistance. Yes, yes.

That was my job as a registrar,

that I had the possibility of moving
a bit around under various pretexts,

to carry papers from my part of the camp
into the central registry,

and, at that occasion, to meet
other people and give them messages,

take messages from them.

And one of my tasks then was,
because I was closest to this camp,

to find out if,
among the members of this transport,

there are people who are suitable
for organizing a Resistance nucleus.

We soon found several ex-members
of the International Brigade in Spain.

And so, in no time,
I had a list of about 40 people

who had a record from the past

of developing some sort of resistance
against the Nazis.

A special figure emerged
among this family camp,

a man called Fredy Hirsch.

He was a German Jew

who emigrated from Germany to Prague.

Fredy Hirsch showed
a considerable amount of interest

for the education
of the children who were there.

He knew each child by name.

And, by his upright behavior
and obvious human dignity,

he became a sort of a spiritual leader

of this whole family camp.

Now, the March 7th started to near,

and this was supposed to give us the signal

of what is supposed to happen,

but, what, we did not know for sure.

CREMATORIUM V

[ MUIIer, In German]
At the end of February,

I was in a night squad at Crematorium V.

Around midnight,

there appeared a man
from the political section:

Oberscharfuhrer Hustek.

He handed Oberscharfuhrer Voss a note.

Voss was then in charge
of the 4 crematoria.

I saw Voss unfold the note

and talk to himself,
saying, “Sure, always Voss.

What'd they do without Voss?
How can we do it?”

That's how he talked to himself.

Suddenly he told me, “Go get the kapos.”

I fetched the kapos, kapo Schloime,

and kapo Wacek.

They came in, and he asked them,

“How many pieces are left?”

By “pieces” he meant bodies.

They told him, “Around 500 pieces.”

He said, “By morning,
those 500 pieces must be...

reduced to ashes.

You're sure it's 500?”

“Just about,” they said.

“Assholes!
What do you mean, just about?”

Then he left

for the “undressing room”
to see for himself.

[ Lanzmann ]
Where the bodies were?

They were piled there:

At Crematorium V,
the “undressing room” also served

as a warehouse for bodies.

[ Lanzmann ]
After the gassing?

After the gassing
the bodies were dragged there.

Voss went there to check.

He forgot the note,
leaving it on the table.

I quickly scanned it

and was shocked by what I read.

BIRKENAU
THE LAKE OF ASHES

The crematorium was
to be gotten ready

for “special treatment”
of the Czech family camp.

In the morning,
when the day squad came on,

I ran into kapo Kaminski,

one of the Resistance leaders
in the “special detail”

and told him the news.

He informed me

that Crematorium II
was also being prepared.

That the ovens were ready there, too.

And he exhorted me,

“You have friends and fellow countrymen.

Go see them. They're locksmiths
and can move around

so they can go to Camp B II B.

Tell them to warn these people

of what' is" in store for them,

and say that if they defend themselves,

we'll reduce the crematoria to ashes.

And at Camp B H B,

they can immediately
burn down their barracks.”

We were certain that the next night,

these people would be gassed.

But when no night squad went out,
we were relieved.

The deadline had been postponed

for a few days.

But many prisoners,

including the Czechs in the family camp,

accused us of spreading panic,

of having...

of having circulated false reports.

[ Vrba, In English]
Approximately by the end of February,

a rumor was spread by the Nazis

that the family transport will be moved

to a place called Heydebreck.

The first move was to separate
the first family transport

from the second family transport

by transferring them overnight

into the quarantine camp B II A,

where I was a registrar.

So I could now speak
with those people directly.

I talked to Fredy Hirsch specifically,

and I told him about the possibility
that the transport has been...

his transport,
the family transport of the Czechs...

has been transferred
to the quarantine camp

because of the possibility

of them being predestined
to be gassed on the March 7th.

He asked me if I know that for sure.

And I said, “I do not know it for sure,
but it is a serious possibility,

because there is no record
of any train going away

from Auschwitz.”

And, usually, the offices, the registrars,

where the Resistance movement
had their people,

would get wind of such an information,

of a transport being prepared
out from Auschwitz,

and there was no such information.

And I explained him the circumstances,
and I explained him what it means.

And the possibility, then, would arise

that, for the first time,
there are, in camp, people

who are relatively physically preserved,

who have some sort of a morale retained,

who are certain to go to die,

in other words, to be subject
to the normal execution procedure,

anonymous major
execution procedure, as usual,

and they will know it,
they can't be just tricked,

and that this is perhaps the time to act.

And the action, of course,

will have to come out from them.

Because there are others
whose death was imminent,

and those were the people from the
Sonderkommando who worked in the crematorium,

which was periodically replaced.

And they showed a willingness,

that, if the Czechs,
before the gassing, attack the SS,

they will join them.

F red y Hirsch objected.

He was very reasonable.

He said that it doesn't make sense to him

that the Germans would keep them
for six months,

and feeding the children
with milk and white bread,

in order to gas them after six months.

On the next day, I got the message,
again from the Resistance,

that it is sure
that they are going to be gassed,

that the Sonderkommando
already received the coal

for burning the transport.

The Sonderkommando knew exactly

how many people are going to be gassed,
what son of people,

because there were
certain rules of work too.

So I called up again to Fredy
and, uh, explained to him

that, as far as this transport
is concerned, included him,

they are going to be gassed
in the next 48 hours.

So, he suddenly started to worry.

He said, “What happens to the children
if we start the uprising?”

He had a very close relationship with the children.
- How many children?

Could be about 100.

Alive.
- And how many people able to fight?

Uh, well, the nucleus was about 30,

and now it was not necessary
to keep any precautions,

and this depends.

I mean, if it comes to fighting,
even an old woman can pick up a stone.

Anybody can fight.
I mean, this is difficult to predict.

But there, it was necessary
to have a nucleus,

and it was necessary
to have a leading personality.

You see, those are small details
which are extremely important.

He said to me,
“lf we make the uprising, what is going...

what is going to happen to the children?

Who is going to take care of them?”

I said, “The children? I cannot say you anything
except that there is no way out for them.

They will die whatsoever.

That's... that's for sure.

This we cannot prevent.

The question what we can do is,

'Who is going to die with them,
and how many SS are going to die with them,

and how will it impede
the whole machinery?'

Plus, the possibility that a part,
during the uprising,

will find their way out from the camp,”

which is possible in such a situation.

I mean, to break through the guards,

because, once the uprising starts,
some weapons can be expected to be had.

And I explained to him that

there is absolutely no chance for him
or for anybody from that transport,

to the best of my knowledge

and everybody else's knowledge
whom I trust,

to survive the next 48 hours.

- This took place inside the block?
- Inside the block, in my room.

And I told him also
that the need of the personality,

and that he has been selected for that.

And, of course, he explained to me
that he understands the situation,

that it is extremely difficult
for him to make any decisions

because of the children,

and that he cannot see how he can leave
those children just to their fate.

He was sort of their father.

I mean, he was only 30 at that time,

but the relationship between him
and those children was very strong.

And he said to me that, of course,
he can see the logic behind my argumentation,

and that he would like
to think about it for an hour,

if I could leave him alone
to think for an hour.

And because I had, at that time,
a room of my own, as a registrar,

I left him in my room,

which was equipped with a table,

a chair and a bed

and some writing instrumentation,

and I told him that I will come,
in an hour's time, back.

And I came back in an hour,

and I could see
that he is laying on my bed,

and that he's dying.

He was cyanotic in the face.

He had froth around the mouth,

and I could see
that he has poisoned himself.

He took poison,

but he was not dead.

And, because of him being so important, I...

I didn't know what sort of poison he took,

but I had, again, a connection
to a man called Dr. Kleinman.

This Dr. Kleinman was
of Polish origin and a French Jew

and medically qualified.

And I called Dr. Kleinman
immediately to Hirsch

and asked Kleinman to do what he can

because this is an important man.

And Kleinman inspected Fredy Hirsch,

and he said that he thinks that he poisoned
himself with a big dose of barbiturates,

that it might be perhaps
possible to save his life,

but he won't be on his feet
for a long time to come,

and he is going to be gassed
within the next 48 hours, and he thinks...

Kleinman said it would be better
to leave things as they are

and to do nothing.

Well, the story after the suicide
of Fredy Hirsch developed very fast.

The first thing,
I informed the rest of... of them, uh,

what I told to Hirsch.

Secondly, I moved to the camp ll D

to establish a contact
with the Resistance there,

with the Resistance movement.

They gave me bread for the people...

bread, yes, bread and onions...

and said that I will get...
they don't know any...

no decision has been made, and I should
come later for... for instructions.

The moment I distributed the bread,
something happened,

namely, a special curfew
was made within the camp.

All administrative activities were stopped.

All guards were doubled.

Machine guns, et cetera,
were spread around the quarantine camps,

and I was out of contact.

The transport, the Czech family transport,
was then gassed in the evening.

They were put on trucks.

All of them knew.

They were put on trucks.
They behaved very well.

We didn't know, of course,
where the trucks are going.

They were being assured once more

that they are going to Heydebreck
and not to be gassed.

And we knew that,
if they are going out from the camp,

the trucks will turn right
when they leave the camp.

And we knew that, if they turn left,
there is only one way.

500 yards, and that's where
the crematorium was.

[ Muller, In German]
That night I was at Crematorium II.

As soon as the people got out of the vans,

they were blinded by floodlights

and forced through a corridor

to the stairs leading
to the “undressing room.”

They were blinded, made to run.

Blows were rained on them.

Those who didn't run fast enough
were beaten to death

by the SS.

The violence used against them
was extraordinary.

And suddenly...

[ Lanzmann ]
Without explanation?

Not a word.

As soon as they left the vans,

the beatings began.

When they entered the “undressing room,”

I was standing near the rear door,

and from there
I witnessed the frightful scene.

The people were bloodied.

They knew then where they were.

They stared at the pillars

of the so-called “international
Information Center” I've mentioned,

and that terrified them.

What they read didn't reassure them.

On the contrary, it panicked them.

They knew the score.

They'd learned at Camp B ll B
what went on there.

They were in despair.

Children clung to each other.

Their mothers,

their parents, the old people all cried,

overcome with misery.

Suddenly,

some SS officers appeared on the steps,

including the camp commandant,
Schwarzhuber.

He'd given them his word
as an SS officer

that they'd be transferred to Heydebreck.

So they all began to cry out, to beg,

shouting, “Heydebreck was a trick!

We were lied to!
We want to live! We want to work!”

They looked
their SS executioners in the eye,

but the SS men

remained impassive,

just staring at them.

There was a movement in the crowd.

They probably wanted
to rush to the SS men

and tell them how they'd been lied to.

Then some guards surged forward,

wielding clubs,

and more people were injured.

In the “undressing room.”

The violence climaxed

when they tried to force
the people to undress.

A few obeyed,

only a handful.

Most of them refused to follow the order.

Suddenly, as though in chorus,

like a chorus...

they all began to sing.

The whole “undressing room” rang

with the Czech national anthem,

and the “Hatikva.”

That moved me terribly, that...

Please stop!

That was happening to my countrymen,

and I realized

that my life had become meaningless.

Why go on living? For what?

So I went into the gas chamber with them,

resolved to die.

With them.

Suddenly, some who recognized me
came up to me.

For my locksmith friends and I

had sometimes gone into the family camp.

A small group of women approached.

They looked at me and said right there
in the gas chamber...

- You were inside the gas chamber?
- [ Repeats Phrase, Agrees]

One of them said,

“So you want to die.

But that's senseless.

Your death won't give us back our lives.

That's no way.

You must get out of here alive,

you must bear witness to our suffering,

and to the injustice done to us.”

[ Vrba, In English] That's how it ended
with the first Czech family transport.

And it was quite clear to me then

that the resistance in the camp

is not geared for an uprising,
but for survival,

for the survival of the members
of the Resistance.

I then decided to act,

what was called
by the members of Resistance

as anarchic and individualistic activity,

like an escape
and leaving the community

for which I am co-responsible
by that time.

Rudolf Vrba
and his friend Wetzler

escaped on April 7, 1944.

Several prisoners
had previously tried to flee,

but all were caught.

The decision to escape,

in spite of the policy
of the Resistance movement at that time,

uh, was formed immediately,

and I started to press on
with the preparations for the escape

together with my friend Wetzler,
who was extremely important in this matter.

And I... Before I left,
I spoke with, uh, Hugo Lenek.

And Hugo Lenek was
in command of the second...

of the Resistance group
in the second family transport.

Yes, and I explained to him that,

from the Resistance movement,
they can “explain” nothing now...

expect nothing but bread.

But when it comes to the dying,
they should act on their own.

As for myself is concerned,

I think that if I successfully managed
to break out from the camp

and bring the information
to the right place, in the right time,

that this might be a help,

that I might manage, if I succeed,
to bring help from outside.

And also it was a firm belief in me
that all this was possible

because either the victims
who came to Auschwitz

didn't know what is happening there,

or, if somebody had the knowledge outside,

that the knowledge was with...

I would say that
they didn't know. That's it.

And I thought that, if this will be made known,
by any means, within Europe,

and especially within Hungary,

from where a million Jews were supposed to be
transported to Auschwitz immediately, in May,

and I knew about that,

that this might stir up
the Resistance outside

and bring help from outside
directly to Auschwitz.

And, thus, the escape plans
were finally formulated,

and the escape took place on April 7.

[ Lanzmann ] And this is the main
and the deep reason why you decided to escape?

Suddenly, at that moment,
to press on with it.

In other words, not to delay anything,

but to escape as soon as possible.

To inform the world.

- About what was going on?
- Right.

- In Auschwitz?
- Right. Right.

[ Exhales]

[ In English]
Now... now I go back

35 years.

No.

I don't go back, you know,
as a matter of fact.

[Sobbing ]

I come back.

JAN KARSKY,
University Professor (USA)

Former courier
of the Polish government in exile

- [ Karsky] I am ready.
- [ Lanzmann ] All right.

In the middle of 1942,

I was thinking to continue
my service as a courier

between the Polish underground

and the Polish government
in exile, in London.

The Jewish leaders in Warsaw
learned about it.

A meeting was arranged
outside of the ghetto.

There were two gentlemen.

They did not live in the ghetto.

They introduced themselves:

leader of Bund,

Zionist leader.

Now, what “transcribed,”
what happened in our conversation,

first, I was not prepared for it.

I was relatively isolated
in my work in Poland.

I did not see many things.

In 35 years after the war,

I don't go back.

I have been a teacher for 26 years.

I never mention
the Jewish problem to my students.

I understand this film
is for historical record,

so I will try to do it.

They described to me
what is happening to the Jews.

Did I know about it?

No, I didn't.

They described to me first

that the Jews...
Jewish problem is unprecedented,

cannot be compared with the Polish problem,

or the Russian, or any other problem.

Hitler will lose this war,

but he will exterminate all Jewish population.

Do I understand it?

The Allies fight for their people.

They fight for humanity.

The Allies cannot forget

that the Jews will be
exterminated totally in Poland,

Polish and European Jews.

They were breaking down.

They paced the room.

They were whispering.

They were hissing.

It was a nightmare

for me.

Did they look in complete desperation?

Yes.

Yes, at various stages of the conversation,

they lost control of themselves.

I just sat in my chair.

I just listened.

I did not even react.

I didn't ask them questions.

I was just listening.

Well, and then they...

They wanted to convince you to convey...

They realized, I think...

They realized from the beginning
that I don't know,

that I don't understand this problem.

Once I said I will take messages from them,

they wanted to inform me
what is happening to the Jews.

And I didn't know this.
I was never in a ghetto.

I never dealt with the Jewish matters.

Did you know yourself at the time

that most of the Jews of Warsaw
had already been killed?

I did know, but I didn't see anything.

I had never heard any description
what is happening over there.

I was never there.

It is one thing to know statistics.

There were hundreds of thousands
of Poles also killed,

Russians, Serbs, Greeks.

We knew about it,

but it was a question of statistics.

But did they insist about
the complete uniqueness of the...

of the situation of the Jews?
- Yes, this was their problem:

to impress upon me,

and then it was my mission

to impress upon all people
whom I am going to see,

that the Jewish situation
is unprecedented in history.

Egyptians... Egyptian pharaohs did not do it.

Babylonians did not do it.

Now, for the first time in history,

actually, they came to the conclusion:

Unless the Allies take
some unprecedented steps,

regardless of the outcome of the war,

the Jews will be totally exterminated.

And they cannot accept it.

This means that they asked
for very specific measures for the...

Yes.

So then, excha... interchangeably,

at a certain point, the... the Bund leader,

at a certain point, the Zionist leader...

Then what do they want?

What message am I supposed to take?

Then they gave me messages,

various messages
to the Allied governments, as such.

I was to see as many
government officials as I could.

As I could, of course.

Then, to the Polish government.

Then to the president of the Polish Republic.

Then to the international Jewish leaders,

and to individual political leaders,
leading intellectuals.

Approach as many people as possible.

And then they gave me segments:

To whom do I report what?

So now, in this nightmarish...
- Excuse me.

Two meetings, I had with them,

nightmarish meetings.

Well, then, they presented their demands,

separate demands.

The message was:

“Hitler cannot be allowed
to continue extermination.

Every day counts.”

NEW YORK

“The Allies cannot treat this war

only from a purely military,
strategic standpoint.

They will win the war

if they take such an attitude,

but what good will it do to us?

We will not survive this war.

The Allied governments
cannot take such a stand.

We contributed to humanity.

We gave scientists for thousands of years.

We originated great religions.

We are humans.

Do you understand it?
Do you understand it?

It never happened before in history,
what is happening to our people now.

Perhaps it will shake
the conscience of the world.

We understand
we have no country of our own.

We have no government.

We have no voice in the Allied councils,

so we have to use services,

little people like you are.

Will you do it?
Will you approach them?

Will you fulfill your mission,

approach the Allied leaders?”

WASHINGTON

“We want an official declaration

of the Allied nations

that, in addition

to the military strategy

which aims at securing victory,

military victory in this war,

extermination of the Jews

forms a separate chapter,

and the Allied nations

formally, publicly announce

that they will deal with this problem,

that it becomes a part!

of their overall strategy in this war.

Not only defeat of Germany,

but also saving
the remaining Jewish population.

Once they make such an official declaration...

They have an air force.

They drop bombs on Germany,

why cannot they drop millions of leaflets

informing the German population

exactly what their government
is doing to the Jews?

Perhaps they don't know it!

Now, let them make official declaration,

again, official, public declaration

that, if the German nation
does not offer evidence

of trying to change the policy
of their government,

German nation
will have to be held responsible

for the crimes
their government is committing.

And now, if there are not such an evidence,

to announce publicly, officially,

certain objects in Germany

will be bombed, destroyed,

as a retaliation

for what the German government
is doing against the Jews.

That bombing which will take place

is not a part of the military strategy.

It deals only with the Jewish problem.

Let the German people know
before bombing takes place

and after bombing takes place

that this was done
and will continue to be done

because Jews are being
exterminated in Poland.

Perhaps it will help.

They can do it.

This, they can do it.”

THE RUHR

This was one mission.

Next,

both of them,

particularly the Zionist leader...

He was again, like,
whispering, hissing to me.

“Something is going to happen.

The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto
are talking about it.

Particularly young elements,

they will fight.

They speak about declaration
of war against the Third Reich,

unique war in the world history.

Never such a war took place.

They want to die fighting.

We cannot deny them this kind of death.”

By the way, I didn't know at that time
Jewish military organization emerged.

They didn't tell me about it,

only that, “Something is going to happen.

The Jews will fight.

They need arms.

We approached the commander
of the Home Army,

the underground movement in Poland.

Those arms were denied, refused.

They cannot be denied arms

if such arms exist,

and we know you have arms.”

This message to the commander
in chief, General Sikorski,

to issue orders

that those arms will be given to the Jews.

AUSCHWITZ - BIRKENAU

This was another part of the mission.

“There are international Jewish leaders.

Reach as many as possible.

Tell them this:

They are Jewish leaders.

Their people are dying.

There will be no Jews,

so what for do we need leaders?

We are going to die as well.

We don't try to escape.
We stay here.

Let them go

to important offices

in London, wherever they are.

Let them demand for action.

If it is refused,

let them walk out,

stay in the street,

refuse food,

refuse drink.

Let them die

in view of all humanity.

Who knows? Perhaps it will shake
the conscience of the world.”

Between those two Jewish leaders,

somehow...
and this belongs to human relations...

I took, so to say, to the Bund leader,

probably because of his behavior.

He looked like a Polish nobleman,

a gentleman, straight,

beautiful gestures, dignified.

I think that he liked me, also personally.

Now, at a certain point, he suggested it.

He says, “Mr. Witold,

I know the Western world.

You are going to deal with the English.

Now, you will give them your oral reports.

I am sure it will strengthen your report

if you will be able to say,
'I saw it myself.”'

WARSAW

“We can organize for you
to visit the Jewish ghetto.

Would you do it?

If you do,

to the Jewish ghetto in Warsaw,
I will go with you,

so I will be sure

that you will be as safe as possible.”

A few days later,
we established contact.

By that time,

Jewish ghetto,
as it existed in 1942 until July,

did not exist anymore.

Out of approximately 400,000 Jews,

in the meantime, some 300,000
were already deported from the ghetto.

So within the outside walls,

practically, there were some four units.

The most important was
the so-called “central ghetto.”

They were separated by some areas
inhabited by the Aryans,

already some areas
not inhabited by anybody.

There was some building.

This building was constructed
in such a way

that the wall which separated
the ghetto from the outside world

was a part of the back of the building.

So the front was facing the Aryan area.

There was some tunnel.

We went through this tunnel
without any kind of difficulties.

What struck me:
completely different man,

the Bund leader,

the Polish nobleman.

I go with him.

He is broken down,

curving, like a Jew from the ghetto,

as if he lived there all the time.

Apparently, this was his nature.

This was his world.

So we walked the streets.

He was on my left.

We didn't talk very much.

He led me.

Well, so what?
So now comes the description of it, yes?

Well.

Naked bodies on the street.

I ask him, “Why are they here?”

- Corpses, you mean?
- Corpses.

He says, “Well, they have a problem.

If J... a Jew dies,

and the family wants some burial,

they have to pay tax on it,

so they just throw them in the street.”

- Because they cannot pay the tax?
- Yeah.

They cannot afford it.

So then they say, “Every rag counts,”

so they take their clothing.

And then, once the body,
the corpse, is on the street,

the Judenrat has to take care of it.

Women with their babies,

publicly feeding their babies,

but they have no... no breast.

It's just flat.

Babies with some crazy eyes, looking.

Did it look like a complete strange world?

- What?
- It was a world, I mean.

No, it was not a world.

That... That was not humanity.

Streets full.

Full.

Apparently, all of them lived in the street.

Exchange what...
what was the most important.

Everybody offering something to sell.

“Three onions.”

“Buy onions.” “Some cookies?”

Selling.

Begging each other.

Crying, “I am hungry.”

Those horrible children.

Some children running by themselves,

or with their mothers, sitting.

It wasn't humanity.

It was some... some... some hell.

Now,

this part of the ghetto,

German officers were there,
in the central ghetto.

If Gestapo released somebody,
and the Gestapo officers,

they had to pass
through the ghetto to get out of it.

So there were also Germans,
German traffic.

Now, the Germans in uniform,

they were walking.

Silence.

Everybody frozen until he passed.

No movement, no begging, nothing.

Germans.

Contempt.

“This is those”... apparently...
“dirty subhuman.”

“They are not human, this.”

Now, at a certain point,

some movement starts.

Jews are running from the street I was on.

We jumped into some house.

He just hits the door.

“Open the door! Open the door!”

They opened the door.
We moved in.

Windows go... give
to the back of the street.

We go to the opposite.

In the door.
Some woman opened the door.

He says, “All right, all right.
Don't be afraid.

We are Jews.”

He pushes me to the window.

“Now look at it. Look at it.”

[ Sighs ]

There were two boys,

nice-looking boys,

Hitler-Jugend unfiorms.

They walked.

Every step they made, Jews disappearing,

running away.

They were talking to each other.

At a certain point,

a boy gets into his pocket,

without even thinking,

shoots.

Some, “Aaah!”

Some broken glass.

Some shouting, “Aaah!”

The other boy says something,
congratulating him.

They go back.

So I was paralyzed.

[Gasping 1

[Sobbing ]

So then the Jewish woman...

Probably she recognized me...
I don't know... that I am not a Jew.

She embraced me.
“Go, go. It doesn't do you any good.

Go, go.”

So we left the house.

Then we left the ghetto.

So then he said, “You didn't see everything.
You didn't see too much.

Would you like to go again?
I will go with you.

I want you to see everything.”

“I will.”

Next day, we went again.

The same house, the same way.

So then, again,
now I was more conditioned,

so I felt the other things.

Stench.

Dirt, stench.

Everywhere. Suffocating.

Dirty streets.

Nervousness. Tension.

Some bedlam.

This was Platz Muranowski.

In a corner of it,

some children playing
something with some rags.

They're throwing the rags to another.

He says, “They are playing, as you see.

Life goes on. Life goes on.”

So then I said,

“They are simulating playing.
They don't play.”

It was a special place for playing?

In the corner of Platz Muranowski.

No, no, no. Open.

As I say, they are...
- There were trees?

There were a few trees, rachitic trees.

So then we just walked the streets.

We didn't talk to anybody.

We walked probably one hour.

Sometimes, he would tell me,

“Look at this Jew,”

a Jew standing, without moving.

[ Indistinct]

I said, “Is he dead?”

He says, “No, no, no. He's alive.

Mr. Witold, remember, he's dying.

He's dying. Look at him.

Tell them over there.

You saw it. Don't forget.”

We walk again.

It's macabre.

Only from time to time,
he would whisper,

“Remember this. Remember this.”

Or he would tell me, “Look at her.”

In very many cases,

I would say,
“What are they doing here?”

His answer: “They are dying.
That's all right. They are dying.”

And always, “But remember, remember.”

We spent more...
perhaps one hour.

We left the ghetto.

Frankly, I couldn't take it anymore.

“Get me out of it.”

And then I never saw him again.

I was sick.

I don't...
Even now, I don't want...

I understand your role.
I am here.

I don't go back in my memory.

I couldn't take any more.

But I reported what I saw.

Yes, it was not a world.
It was not a part of humanity.

I was not part of it.

I did not belong there.

I never saw such things. I never...

Nobody wrote about this kind of reality.

I never saw any theater...
I never saw any movie...

This was not the world.

I was told that these are human beings.

They didn't look like human beings.

Then we left.

He embraced me then.

“Good luck. Good luck.”

I never saw him again.

WARSAW

Next figure: Dr FRANZ GRASSLER,
deputy to Auerswald,

the Nazi Commissioner
of the Warsaw ghetto

[ Lanzmann, In German]
You don't remember those days?

[ Grassier, In German]
Not much.

I recall more clearly
my pre-war mountaineering trips

than the entire war period

and those days in Warsaw.

All in all, those were bad times.

It's a fact: we tend to forget,

thank God,

the bad times
more easily than the good.

The bad times are repressed.

[ Lanzmann ]
I'll help you remember...

In Warsaw,
you were Dr. Auerswald's deputy.

[ Grassier ]
Yes.

[ Lanzmann ]
Dr. Auerswald was...

[ Grassier ]
Commissioner of the “Jewish district” of Warsaw.

Dr. Grassier, this is Czerniakow's diary.

You're mentioned in it.

- It's been printed, it exists?
- Ja, ja.

He kept a diary...
- Mm-hmm. Ja.

That was recently published.

He wrote on July 7, 1941

July 7, 1941?

That's the first time I've relearned a date.

May I take notes?

After all... it interests me too.

So in July I was already there!

He wrote on July 7, 1941,

“Morning in the Community”
- the Jewish Council HQ -

Ja, fa. Ja.

“and later with Auerswald, Schlosser...”

Schlosser was...

- “and Grassier”...
- Ja.

“On routine matters.”

That's the first time...

- That my name is mentioned...
- Ja, ja.

Yes, but there were 3 of us.

Schlosser... was in...
the “economic department.”

I think he had to do with economics.
- Ja. Ja, ja.

And the second time

was on July 22.

Czerniakow was president
of the Warsaw Jewish Council

- He wrote every day?
- Yes.

- Ja? Mm-hmm?
- Yes, every day.

- [ Repeats Phrase]
- it's quite amazing...

That the diary was saved.

It's amazing that it was saved.

BURLINGTON - VERMONT (USA)

[ Hilberg, In English]
Adam Czerniakow began keeping a diary

the very first week of the war,

before the Germans entered Warsaw,

and before he took over the responsibility
of leading the Jewish community,

and kept his diary in daily entries

until the afternoon of the day
that he ended his life.

He left us a window

through which we can observe
a Jewish community

in the terminal hours of its life.

A dying community,
for it began dying from the beginning.

RAUL HILBERG

And, in that sense,

Adam Czerniakow, urn,
did something very important.

He didn't save the Jews.

In that respect,
he was like other Jewish leaders.

But he left a record
of what had happened to them

in a day-by-day fashion.

And you could see that he did all this

on top of working a seven-day week,

for he was a man without vacations,

without any day off.

And yet every day,

almost every day,

he had an entry.

He might record the weather,

where he went in the morning,

and then all the things that happened,

but he never failed to write.

That was something
that moved him, pushed him,

compelled him throughout the years,

almost three years of his life
under the Germans.

And, in that sense, uh,

perhaps because he wrote
in such a prosaic style,

we now know what went on in his mind,

how things were perceived,

recognized, reacted to.

We even know from what he didn't say

just what it is that
went through this community.

There are constant references in the diary

to the end.

He talks in terms of Greek mythology,

and he refers to himself
as wearing a poisoned cloak,

as Hercules once did.

He has, um, a feeling of doom

for the Jews of Warsaw.

And there are remarkable passages
in the diary that illustrate what he meant.

He is, uh, sarcastic enough,
if that is the word,

in December 1941, to remark
that now the intelligentsia were dying also.

Up to this point,
poor people were dying,

but, by December 1941, members
of the intelligentsia were starving to death.

And he even has...

[ Lanzmann ] Why does he mention
specifically the intelligentsia at this time?

He mentions it
because there is a difference,

owing to the class structure
within the ghetto,

in vulnerability to starvation.

The lower classes died first.
The middle class died a little bit later.

Intelligentsia were, of course,
at the top of the middle class,

and once they started dying,
the situation was really very, very bad.

And that's the meaning of that.

Now we're dealing with a ghetto where the average
consumption was about 1,200 calories, you see.

He mentions with...
with approval, with approval, uh,

that one petitioner came to him for money

and said, “I want money,

not in order to eat.

I want money for the rent,

to pay the rent for my apartment,

because I don't want to die in the street.”

This is the kind of comment
that Czerniakow writes down in his diary.

This meaning of dignity,

the approval of the...

You mean he received
a petition from somebody...

- Yes.
- who said, “Give me money”?

Yes, but not for food.

“Give me money so that I can pay the rent,

because I don't want to die in the street.”

There were people
dropping dead in the street.

They were covered with newspaper.

Why was the housing
more important to him than the food?

To this particular individual,

who wasn't eating enough to remain alive,

who didn't want to be dying of hunger
while collapsing in the street.

This means that death was not avoidable,

but it was avoidable...
- Death was not...

- to die either inside or outside?
- To die... Well, of course. Of course.

It is a... It is a...
one of these sardonic jokes,

of which he had quite a few.

He always had the...

strange, strange description

of a band playing
in front of a funeral parlor,

of a hearse with drunken drivers,

and a dead child
running around the grounds.

He had... He had rather
sardonic comments about death.

He lived with death.

[ Pages Turning ]

[ Lanzmann, In German]
Did you go into the ghetto?

Seldom. When I had to visit Czerniakow.

What were the conditions like?

Awful.

Yes a ' Ppall' ' Yes? mg

I never went back
when I saw what it was like.

Unless I had to.

In the whole period
I think I only went once or twice.

We, at the Commission, tried

to maintain the ghetto
for its labor force,

and especially
to prevent epidemic, like typhus.

That was the big danger.

- Yes.
- Yes?

Can you tell us about typhus?

I'm not a doctor.

I only know that typhus
is a very dangerous epidemic

that wipes people out like the plague,

and that it can't be confined to a ghetto.

If typhus had broken out...

I don't think it did,

but there was fear that it might...

it would have killed
the Poles and the Germans.

Why was there typhus in the ghetto?

I don't know if there was,

but there was a danger,
because of the famine.

People didn't get enough to eat.

That's what was so awful.

We, at the Commission,

did our best to feed the ghetto,

so it wouldn't become
an incubator of epidemics.

Aside from humanitarian factors,
that's what mattered.

If typhus had broken out...
and it didn't...

it wouldn't have stopped at the ghetto.

Czerniakow also wrote that

one of the reasons
the ghetto was walled in

was because of this German fear.

- Yes, absolutely!
- Fear of typhus.

[ Repeats Phrase]

He says Germans always
associated Jews with typhus.

Maybe.

I'm not sure if there were grounds for it.

But imagine that mass of people
packed in the ghetto...

There weren't only the Warsaw Jews,

but others who came later.

The danger kept on growing.

[ Hilberg, In English]
There was a lady somewhere in Warsaw,

in love with a man.

And the man was hit,

grievously wounded,

with his insides coming out.

This woman stufied the insides back
with her own hands.

She carried the man
to a first-aid station. He died.

He was buried in a mass grave.

She disinterred him and buried him.

This, to Czerniakow, this simple episode,

was the ultimate of virtue.

[ Lanzmann ]
He is never revolted?

He doesn't bother,
or he doesn't express the revolt.

He doesn't express the disgust
except with other Jews,

Jews who either deserted the community

by emigrating early,

or Jews who, like Gancwajch,
are collaborating with the Germans.

And, for the Germans,
he doesn't have words of disgust.

I think he is beyond such words.

He hasn't any criticism
of the Germans themselves

and only seldom allows himself
to make a remark

which indicates that
he opposed something by arguing.

He very seldom argues with the Germans.

He pleads, he appeals,
but he doesn't argue with them.

He does argue when he's forced,
not only to build the wall,

but to pay for it.

And he says that, if the wall
is being put up as a hygienic measure

to prevent Jewish epidemics from engulfing
the Polish or German population outside,

then why is it...

why is it that the Jews have to pay for it?

The people who get the protection
should be paying for the medicine.

If the wall is medicine,
let the Germans pay.

And Auerswald, the ghetto Kommissar,
says that's a very nice argument

that he, Czerniakow, might bring up
at an international conference some day,

but, for now, he'll pay for the wall.

Czerniakow writes all this down,

including Auerswald's reply
to his own argument.

And that's about the most
he ever allows himself to say in criticism

of what the Germans are doing.

So he takes for granted,
he assumes, he anticipates

everything that is happening to the Jews,

including the worst.

[ Lanzmann, In German]
The Germans had a policy on the Warsaw ghetto.

What was that policy?

Ja.

You're asking more than I know.

The policy that wound up
with extermination...

- Ja.
- the Final Solution...

we knew nothing about it.

Our job was to maintain the ghetto,

and try to preserve
the Jews as a work force.

The Commission's goal,

in fact, was very different

from the one that later
led to extermination.

Yes, but do you know
how many people died

in the ghetto each month in 1941?
- Nein.

I don't know now... if I ever knew it.

But you did know.
There are exact figures.

I probably knew...

Yes: 5,000 a month.

- 5,000 a month? Yes, well...
- Ja.

That's a lot.
- That's a lot, of course.

But there were far too many people
in the ghetto.

That was it. Far too many.
- [ Repeats Phrase]

Far too many.

[ Lanzmann ]
My question is philosophical.

What does a ghetto mean, in your opinion?

[ Grassier ]
History's full of ghettos,

going back centuries, for all I know.

Persecution of the Jews
wasn't a German in vention,

and it didn't start with World War II.

The Poles persecuted them too.

[ Lanzmann ]
But a ghetto like Warsaw's,

in a great capital,

in the heart of the city.

[ Grassier ]
That was unusual.

You say you wanted to maintain the ghetto.

Our mission wasn't
to annihilate the ghetto,

but to keep it alive, to maintain it.

What does “alive” mean in such...

- That was the problem.
- Ja.

That was the whole problem...

The problem needed to be resolved.
I knew that.

But people were dying in the streets.

There were bodies everywhere.
- Yes.

- Nee?

That was the paradox.

- You see it as a paradox?
- I'm sure of it.

Why?

Can you explain?
- No.

Why not?

Explain what?

But the fact is...

Jews were being exterminated
daily in the ghetto.

Czerniakow wrote...
- Ja. Ja.

To maintain it properly,

we'd have needed
more substantial rations,

and less crowding.

Why weren't the rations more humane?

Why weren't they?

That was a German decision, no?

There was no real decision
to starve the ghetto.

The big decision to exterminate
came much later.

[ Lanzmann]
That's right, later. In 1942.

- Precisely!
- Ja.

3 years later.
- Just so.

Our mission, as I recall it,

was to manage the ghetto,

and, naturally,
with those inadequate rations,

and the overcrowding,

a high, even excessive death rate
was inevitable.

- Yes.
- Nee?

What does “maintain” the ghetto
mean in such conditions...

the food, sanitation, etc.?

What could the Jews do
against such measures?

They couldn't do anything.

[ Lanzmann, In English]
Czerniakow saw a film before the war

where the captain of a sinking ship

gives order to the orchestra to play jazz.

In the entry of July 8, 1942,

not even two weeks before his death,

he identifies himself
to this captain of the sinking ship.

Yes.

Of course, there is no jazz,

but there is a kind of children's festival.

There are chess tournaments, yes.

There's theater.
There is a children's festival.

There's everything going on
until the last moment.

But, more importantly, these are symbols.

These outward cultural activities,
these festivals,

uh, they're not simply
morale-building devices,

which is what Czerniakow
identifies them to be.

Rather, they are symbolic
of the entire posture of the ghetto,

which is in the process of healing,
or trying to heal, sick people

who are soon going to be gassed,

which is trying to educate youngsters
who will never be growing up,

which is in the process of trying to find work
for people and increase employment

in a situation which is doomed to failure.

They are going on
as though life will continue.

They have an official faith
in the survivability of the ghetto,

even after all indications
are to the contrary.

The strategy continues to be:

“We must continue,
for this is the only strategy that is left.

We must minimize the injury,
minimize the damage, minimize the losses,

but we must continue.”

And continuity
is the only thing, in all of this.

But, obviously, when he compares himself
to this captain of a sinking ship,

he knows that everything is sinking.
- He knows. He knows.

I... I think he knew or he sensed
or he believed the end was corning

perhaps as early as October 1941,

when he has a note about alarming rumors

as to the fate of Warsaw Jewry
in the spring.

This is also when Bischoff,
the head of the Transferstelle, tells him

that, after all, a ghetto
is only a temporary device,

without specifying for what.

He knows, because in January he... he...
he has premonitions or reports and rumors

about Lithuanians coming.

He is concerned when Auerswald
disappears and is going to Berlin

right around January 20, 1942,

which we now know to have been the date
of the Final Solution Conference in Berlin,

the Wannsee Conference.

The Final Solution Conference
was held here

And even though Czerniakow,
in Warsaw, behind the walls,

has no idea of such a conference
going on in Berlin,

yet he is concerned that Auerswald,
the ghetto Komnfvssar, is going to Berlin.

He can't imagine why,

unless it is for a purpose
that bodes no good.

And so, in February,
there are more rumors.

In March, the rumors
are becoming even more specific.

He now begins to record

the departure of Jews
from the Lublin ghetto,

or Mielec,

or Krakow

and L wow.

And he recognizes

that something may well be
in the offing for Warsaw itself.

And every subsequent entry is replete

with the anxiety that he feels.

BELZEC
SITE OF THE EXTERMINATION CAMP

[ Lanzmann ]
When Czerniakow hears rumors

about the depo/Tations
from Lublin, Lwow and Krakow

around March 1942,

and we know now that
the transports went to Belzec,

does he ask in his diary
where they are shipped,

what happens to them?

[ Hilberg ]
No. He never does.

And he never mentions any destination.

But we cannot really decide

that he had no knowledge whatsoever

about these camps.

All we know is that
he didn't mention them in the diary.

And we also know, of course,
from other sources,

that the existence of death camps
was already known in Warsaw,

certainly by June.

[ Lanzmann, In German]
Why did Czerniakow commit suicide?

Because he realized
there was no future for the ghetto.

He probably saw before I did
that the Jews would be killed.

I suppose the Jews already had
their excellent secret services.

They were too well informed,

better than we were.

- Think so?
- Yes, I do.

- The Jews knew more than you?
- I'm convinced of it!

- It's hard to believe.
- Doch, doch.

The German administration
was never informed

of what would happen to the Jews.

When was the first deportation
to Treblinka?

Before Auerswald's suicide, I think.

- Auerswald's?
- I mean Czerniakow's. Sorry.

July 22.

Those are dates...

So the deportations began July 22, 1942.

Yes.

To... Treblinka.

And Czerniakow killed himself July 23.

Yes, that is...

- The next day.
- The next day.

So that was it, he'd realized

that his idea...

it was his idea, I think, of working
in good faith with the Germans,

in the Jews' best interests.

He'd realized this idea,
this dream was destroyed.

- That the idea was a dream.
- Yes.

And when the dream faded,
he took the logical way out.

[ Lanzmann, In English] The last entry takes place
how long before his suicide?

[ Hilberg] The last entry
precedes his death by a few hours.

[ Lanzmann ]
And what does he write?

“It is 3200.

So far, 4,000 are ready to go.

The orders are that
there must be 9,000 by 4:00.”

This is the last entry of a man
on the afternoon

of the day that he commits suicide.

[ Lanzmann] The first transport
of the Jews of Warsaw for Treblinka

was the 22nd of July, 1942.

And he commits suicide the day after?
- That's right.

In other words, on the 22nd, you see,

on the 22nd, he is called in
by SturmbannfiJhrer Hofle,

who is in charge of the resettlement staff,

who has come in there for the express purpose
of taking the Jews out of Warsaw.

Hofle tells him, on the 22nd...

And, here, incidentally,
is another fascinating point.

Czerniakow is so agitated

that he doesn't put the date down correctly.

Instead of saying, “July 22, 1942,”
he says, “July 22, 1940.”

[ Clicks Tongue ]

Hofle calls him in at 10:00,

disconnects the telephones.

Children are removed from the playground
opposite the community building.

And then he is told that all Jews,
irrespective of sex and age,

with certain exceptions,
will be deported to the east.

To the east.

Again, the east.

And by 4:00 p.m. today, a contingent
of 6,000 people must be provided,

and this, at the minimum,
will be the daily quota.

Now, he's told that at 10:00
in the morning of July 22, 1942.

He then goes on.
He keeps appealing.

He... He wants certain exemptions.

He wants the Council staff to be exempt.

He wants the staff
of the welfare organizations to be exempt,

and he's terribly worried
that the orphans will be deported,

and he repeatedly brings up the orphans.

And, on the next day,
he still doesn't have assurance

that the orphans are going to be saved.

Now, if he cannot be
the caretaker of the orphanage,

then he has lost his war,

he has lost his struggle.

But why the orphans?

They are the most helpless element
in the community.

They are the little children, its future,
who have lost their parents.

They cannot possibly
do anything on their own.

If the orphans do not have exemption,
if he doesn't even get the promise,

the words spoken by a German SS officer,

not even assurances,
which, as he knows, cannot be counted on,

if he cannot even get the words,

what can he think?

If he cannot take care of the children,
what else can he do?

Some people report that

he wrote a note,
after he closed the book, on the diary,

in which he said,

“They want me to kill the children
with my own hands.”

[ Lanzmann, In German] Did you think
this idea of a ghetto was a good one?

A sort of self-management, right?

- That's right.
- A mini-State?

- It worked well.
- But it was self-management for death, no?

We know that now.
But at the time...

- Even then!
- No!

Czerniakow wrote,

“We're puppets, we have no power.”
- Yes.

- No power.
- Sure... that was...

- You Germans were the overlords.
- Yes.

The overlords. The masters.

Obviously.

- Czerniakow was merely a tool.
- [ Repeats Phrase] Ja.

Yes, but a good tool.

Jewish self-management worked well,
I can tell you.

It worked well for 3 years,

1941, 1942, 1943...
2 1/2 years... and in the end...

In the end...

“Worked well” for what?

To what end?

For self-preservation.

No! For death!

- Yes, but...
- Self-management, self-preservation...

That's easy to say now.

- You admitted the conditions were inhuman.
- Ja.

[ Lanzmann ]
Atrocious... horrible!

So it was clear even then...

No! Extermination wasn't clear.

Now we see the result.
- Extermination isn't so simple.

One step was taken,

then another, and another, and another...
- Yes.

But to understand the process, one must...

I repeat: extermination did not
take place in the ghetto, not at first.

Only with the evacuations.

Otherwise, in the ghetto, we would have...

Evacuations?

The evacuations to Treblinka.

The ghetto could have been
wiped out with weapons...

Nein? - Ja.

as it was finally done,
after the rebellion.

After I'd left.
But at the start...

Mr. Lanzmann, this is getting us nowhere.

We're reaching no new conclusions.

- I don't think we can.
- Nein.

I didn't know then what I know now.

You weren't a nonentity.

- But I was!
- You were important.

- You overestimate my role.
- No.

- Nein?
- Nein.

You were 2nd to the Commissioner
of the Warsaw “Jewish district.”

- But I had no power.
- It was something.

You were part of the vast
German power structure.

Correct. But a small part.

You overestimate the authority
of a deputy of 28 then.

- You were 30.
- 28.

- At 30, you were...
- [ Laughs]

Nein.
- Das ist...

[ In French ] you were mature.
[ Repeats In German]

Yes, but for a lawyer
who got his degree at 27,

it's just a beginning.

Ja.

You had a doctorate.

The title proves nothing.

- Did Auerswald have one too?
- No.

But the title's irrelevant.

Doctor of Law...

What did you do after the war?
- Aber...

I was with a mountaineering
publishing house.

- That so?
- Ja, ja.

I wrote and published mountain guidebooks.

I published a climbers' magazine.

Is climbing your main interest?

- Yes.

The mountains, the air...
- Yes.

The sun, the pure air...

Not like the ghetto air.

[ Women Singing In Yiddish]
y The words, the words that I write to you y

J' Are not written with ink,
but with tears J'

p The best years are ending now p

J' Are not written with ink,
but with tears J'

p The best years are ending now p

p And are gone, not to return y

,r It is difficult to fix
that which is shattered y

g And it is difficult to unite our love J'

J' Oh, show your tears J'

J' The fault is not mine J'

g Because it must be so J'

g It must be so
It must be so g

g We must both separate g

g It must be so
It must be so g

J' The love that ends for both of us g

g Do you remember when I left you? J'

g My fate dictated I must leave you J'

g Because in this way
I will never again be bothered g

NEW YORK
GERTRUDE SCHNEIDER AND HER MOTHER

g Because it must be so J'

LOHAME HAGHETTAOT
KIBBUTZ MUSEUM

GHETTO FIGHTERS' KIBBUTZ,
ISRAEL

The Jewish Combat Organization (J.C.O.)
in the Warsaw ghetto

was officially formed on July 28, 1942.

After the first mass
deportation to Treblinka,

which was interrupted on September 30,

some 60,000 Jews remained in the ghetto.

On January 18, 1943,
the deportations were resumed.

Despite a severe lack of weapons,

the members of the J.C.O.
called for resistance,

and started fighting,
to the Germans' total surprise.

It lasted 3 days.

The Nazis withdrew with losses,

abandoning weapons the Jews grabbed.

The deportations were stopped.

The Germans now knew

they had to fight to conquer the ghetto.

The battle began
on the evening of April 19, 1943,

the eve of Pessach Passover.

It had to be a fight to the death.

SIMHA ROTTEM, known as “Kajik”

ITZHAK ZUCKERMANN, known as “Antek,”
2nd in command of the J.C.O.

[ Antek Speaking Hebrew]

[ Interpreter #3, In French]
I began drinking after the war.

[ Antek Speaking Hebrew]

It was very difficult.

[ Antek Speaking Hebrew]

Claude, you asked for my impression.

If you could lick my heart,

it would poison you.

At the request of Mordechai Anielewicz,

commander-in-chief of the J.C.O.,

Antek had left the ghetto
6 days before the German attack.

His mission:

To ask Polish Resistance leaders
to arm the Jews.

They refused.

[Speaking Hebrew]

[ Interpreter #3, In French]
I don't think the human tongue can describe

the horror we went through in the ghetto.

In the streets,
if you can call them that,

for nothing was left of the streets,

we had to step over heaps of corpses.

There was no room to pass beside them.

Besides fighting the Germans,
we fought hunger

and thirst.

We had no contact with the outside world,

we were completely isolated,
cut off from the world.

[ Interpreter #3, In French]
We were in such a state

that we could no longer understand

the very meaning of
why we went on fighting.

[ Kajik Continues ]

We thought of attempting a breakout

to the Aryan part of Warsaw,
outside the ghetto.

[ Kajik Continues ]

Just before May 1,

Sigmund and I were sent

to try to contact Antek in Aryan Warsaw.

[ Interpreter #3, In French]
We found a tunnel under Bonifrateska Street

that led out into Aryan Warsaw.

[ Kajik Continues ]

Early in the morning,

we suddenly emerged
into a street in broad daylight.

[ Kajik Continues ]

Imagine us on that sunny May 1,

stunned to find ourselves in the street,
among normal people.

We'd come from another planet.

[ Kajik Continues ]

People immediately jumped on us

because we certainly looked exhausted,

skinny, in rags.

Around the ghetto,
there were always suspicious Poles

who grabbed Jews.

[ Kajik Continues ]

By a miracle, we escaped them.

[ Kajik Continues ]

In Aryan Warsaw,

life went on as naturally
and normally as before.

[ Kajik Continues ]

The cafes operated normally,

the restaurants, buses, streetcars...

The movies were open.

[ Kajik Continues ]

The ghetto was an isolated island
amid normal life.

[ Kajik Continues ]

Our job was to contact
Itzhak Zuckermann

to try to mount' a rescue operation,

to try to save the few fighters

who might still be alive in the ghetto.

[ Kajik Continues ]

We managed to contact Zuckermann.

[ Kajik Continues ]

We found two sewer workers.

[ Kajik Continues ]

On the night of May 8-9,

we decided to return to the ghetto

with another buddy, Riszek,
and the 2 sewer workers.

After the curfew, we entered the sewers.

[ Kajik Continues ]

We were entirely
at the mercy of the two workmen,

since only they knew
the ghettds underground layout.

[ Kajik Continues ]

Halfway there, they decided to turn back,

they tried to drop us,
and we had to threaten them with our guns.

[ Kajik Continues ]

We went on through the sewers...

[ Kajik Continues ]

until one of the workmen told us
we were under the ghetto.

[ Kajik Continues ]

Riszek guarded them
so they couldn't escape.

MILA 18.
J.C.O. BUNKER HEADQUARTERS

[ Kajik Continues ]

I raised the manhole cover

to go up into the ghetto.

[ Kajik Continues ]

At bunker Mila 18, I missed them by a day.

[ Kajik Continues ]

I had returned the night of May 8-9.

The Germans found the bunker
on the morning of the 8th.

WARSAW - THE MONUMENT
TO THE GHETTO FIGHTERS

[ Kajik Continues ]

Most of its survivors committed suicide,

or succumbed to gas in the bunkers.

THE REPLICA OF THE MONUMENT
TO THE GHETTO FIGHTERS

JERUSALEM

[ Kajik Continues ]

I went to bunker Franciszkanska 22.

There was no answer
when I yelled the password,

so I had to go on through the ghetto.

I suddenly heard a woman
calling from the ruins.

It was darkest night,
no lights, you saw nothing.

All the houses were in ruins,
and I heard only one voice.

I thought some evil spell
had been cast on me,

a woman's voice talking from the rubble.

I circled the ruins.

I didn't look at my watch,

but I must have spent
a half hour exploring,

trying to find the woman
whose voice guided me,

but, unfortunately, I didn't find her.

[ Lanzmann, In French]
Were there fires?

[ Interpreter #3 Speaking Hebrew]

Strictly speaking, no,
for the flames had died down,

but there was still smoke,

and that awful smell
of charred flesh

of people who had surely
been burned alive.

I continued on my way,

going to other bunkers
in search of fighting units,

but it was the same everywhere.

I'd give the password: “Jan.”

[ Lanzmann, In French]
That's a Polish first name, Jan.

[ Interpreter #3 Speaking Hebrew]

Right. And I got no answer.

I went from bunker to bunker,

and after walking for hours in the ghetto,

I went back toward the sewers.

- Was he alone then?
- [ Interpreter #3 Speaking Hebrew]

Yes, I was alone all the time.

[ Interpreter #3 ]
Oui...

Except for that woman's voice,

and a man I met
as I came out of the sewers,

I was alone throughout my tour
of the ghetto.

I didn't meet a living soul.

At one point, I recall

feeling a kind of peace, or serenity,

when I said to myself, “I'm the last Jew.

I'll wait for morning
and for the Germans.”

[ Train Clacking Continues]

[ Clacking Fades ]