Original subtitles

Because our ancestors had that knowledge.

Our ancestors were as spiritual as we are materialistic.

Now if we understand that, we'll see why it's so difficult to relate to our

ancestors. We are deeply materialistic.

Deeply, deeply materialistic.

They were deeply, deeply spiritual.

That's the difference.

And we need to reconnect with the spiritual aspect because if we only go

physical all the time, we're going to destroy that which keeps us alive in

you know.

And it's coming quite fast because we only see money. We see the world as

This is money to the farmer.

He doesn't see it as plants.

He sees it as money. People see everything as money now, the trees,

So because you see it as money, you have no respect.

And you don't see the consequence.

You don't see consequences.

You only see consequences when you go above that and you see, oh, what are we

doing? The consequences are horrible.

But people don't see the consequences. They just see, at the end of the day,

what comes into their bank account.

And that's a very dangerous force.

And it's come to a point now where it's so...

well equipped to be more and more and more efficient at it, that we're just

accelerating the destruction of the life system that supports us.

Whereas the spiritual, our ancestors, for example in Avebury,

The ancestors' aim was to learn how the universe works and to learn to enhance

the work there, to enhance nature, to help nature, you know?

Different, completely different. The opposite, actually.

It's just an automatic reaction from a type of mindset.

During the war, there were crop circles in this country, and people thought it

was done by the Germans.

That was based on absolutely no facts whatsoever.

They didn't even invade this country.

And in Germany, when it happened during the war, they thought it was done by the

English and the Americans. So again, it's an automatic reaction.

In the Middle Ages here, they thought it was done by witchcraft or fairies. They

were called fairy rings and so on.

So that's just the mindset of the time kicks in and you go, well, it's

logical it's got to be done by men with planks because that's the mindset of our

time. We're mechanistic and we're materialistic.

But there's nothing to support it.

Whereas all the experiences that we've done, you know, we see that actually

there is much more evidence that it isn't made by man than that it is.

And it's easy to dismiss something you don't know.

Anybody can dismiss something they don't know.

First, find out. If you find out, you'll see that it's not man -made.

Absolutely.

There's very, very little evidence on any level, you know. For example, in the

country. This has happened here since.

the 70s, you can't keep secrets in the country. It's the same in every country.

You go in Norway, I'm sure, in a rural area, if something happens there,

everyone knows.

You know, I say sometimes, you can have an affair in London, but you can't have

an affair in Wiltshire, because everyone will know very quickly.

That's the nature of a countryside mentality.

People know what's going on.

Nobody has ever seen any evidence of anyone entering fields at night for 30

years. That's not possible.

Not possible.

Just on that level. You know, it just doesn't make sense. Common sense

But to do something like that every night for years and years and years,

would rat on them. They would try to get the glory.

They would try to make money out of this.

They would be millionaires if they could do that. They'd go to Spielberg.

You know, when they made the film, one of the greatest difficulties was to

create these designs.

It took them much longer than they thought.

Months. You know, they thought, be done like this.

It's not so easy.

So ignorance...

It's what supports that theory.

In your opinion, who is behind the thing?

Well, that's the only question I can't really answer.

I can't answer that question.

I like to stick to... Although I'm... Metaphysical is not... I would

say that I tend to be more in a metaphysical realm when I study this.

metaphysical is not naive.

It's not based on naivety.

And I absolutely tend to stick to facts.

Symbols mean what they mean, and they've meant these things for thousands of

years. There's no imagination in that, or sort of imagination or whatever.

It's based on facts.

Well, crop circles are based on facts. They exist.

They're imprinted. They mean something.

The plants are affected, the soil is affected.

We know, you know, the time span is very short and so on and so forth. So I like

to stick with facts. I don't like to assume or to make conjectures. We could

conjecture for a long time. We don't actually know.

You know, it could be all sorts of things.

I don't know what it is, and nobody knows.

We lean sometimes towards certain things.

We know we're not just one -dimensional here, you know. The new computers use

the dimensions to send information.

So if we can pierce other dimensions, it can be pierced this way.

We can just common sense.

but not even just common sense, from a point of view of fractal, from a

mathematical point of view, it's actually impossible to have one world

alive and everything dead.

It's impossible.

That's not mathematically possible.

If one world is alive, life is everywhere. Life is the norm as opposed

exception.

And another mathematical concept that we don't actually know...

That science knows between 1 and 10 % of all that exists, which means that from

90 to 99 % is unknown.

Why are we surprised something unknown appears? We live in the unknown.

We live in the unknown. And now we're discovering something that some years

people couldn't see even.

So we're beginning to see that there are other aspects to our world that is here

and manifesting.

What it's telling me is that there's consciousness in everything, at every

level, you know. And we're interacting with other consciousness.

But what they look like, where they're coming from, I just don't know.

Maybe in a few years we will. I don't know yet.

But you live in the area here yourself.

What is the common opinion among people, the farmers and everyone living around

here?

Well, the common opinion is that, actually, I would say that in this area,

percent of people have never seen a crop circle the people you meet in crop

circle are not the local people you never meet local people very rarely you

people who come from france from germany from norway from america and so on they

meet here and english people from from from outside but there are very people

few people who live here who have ever set foot in a crop circle or even seen a

crop circle

Because it's too far from the ordinary way of thinking. It's so far from our

-to -day way of how the world should be.

We don't know the world we live in, but we think it should be in a certain way.

And if it doesn't fit that desire that it should be in a certain way, it

exist for most people. And they can't even see it physically.

I'm telling you. I had a person at Chilhampton.

who came to prune our trees in our garden when we lived there. It's just

the road.

He said, oh yes, I heard there was a formation in 1991.

He hadn't seen it. And he didn't know since 1991 that there had been anything

else. He lived there in the valley.

So it's a different dimension.

And different dimension of vision, of thinking.

You see, we don't live in the same dimension as these people.

There's something quite...

They cannot perceive it because they can't imagine it.

That's the answer.

And there's very few of us who are able to see these and interact with them.

So if you don't know about it, you just assume it's man -made. But you have

nothing to back it up.

Nothing to support this.

I mean, this is a fairly straightforward formation compared to many.

we don't know what it's like from above yet so even in quite a straightforward

one you can't work out on the ground what it is um that's just walking

it not trying to make it so you think some of these very very complex ones you

can walk in them and not have a clue what they're actually like inside and

that's just looking at them never mind having to place that bit perfectly there

with this bit perfectly here etc now

If this is man -made, and we're not that happy about it, if it is, well, they've

done quite well, but this is very simple.

And then you think of some of these very, very complex formations in it.

Mind -blowing, really.

It was back in 1991 that I first came across crop circles.

I mean, I'd heard about them like everybody else, but it wasn't until I

myself down in Wiltshire in 1991 that I came across them, and I was astonished.

by what they were. So from there, I've spent the last 13 years investigating

them, along with everybody else, trying to find out what's going on, but also

coming to grips with the fact that it is a mystery.

Okay. But you have also been writing books about this.

And how do you feel that the public in general, what

is their attitude to this here in England?

Most people...

believe what they're told in the newspapers that nearly all crop circles

the whole of the crop circle thing are made by men with planks of wood or

rollers and i think when you talk to people that's the first thing that they

will say but what i find is when you actually start to talk seriously to them

about it and you show them the evidence their opinions will change very quickly

and what i've found is that actually people quite like mystery and although

will go along with what they hear in the newspapers they will very soon be

willing to change their minds because they don't really like the idea that

might all be man -made. I think actually a lot of people are quite excited by

other ideas.

So when you show them the evidence, people's minds do change. And I think

here in England are more open -minded than they're given credit for.

But you have conducted various experiments on the crop circles.

Can you tell us a little bit about them?

In 1991, we set up our organization to study crop circles based in the

of England in particular, where there was no other study group.

And we became known in time as Southern Circular Research.

So we began to attract different people to our meetings.

And when we became involved with a man called Paul Bure, he was sort of a

psychic and very interested in trying to use psychic means to see if we could

interact with whatever. this phenomenon was so over the years sort of up until

the end of 1995 we conducted a series of experiments using sort of channeling

using psychic intuition to try to see if we could interact with this phenomenon

and our main aim was to see if we could get a crop circle to appear

partly in the hope that we could film it appearing, but also just to see if we

could create a formation that would, you know, somehow speak to us of having

been the result of something that we had contributed to.

And, I mean, our most successful experiment in that realm was in 1995,

gathered on top of a hilltop called Worcesterbury Hill, which is an old Iron

hill fort.

we had a particular formation in mind that we had hoped would appear and one

our team members had scrawled this on a piece of paper and we sat on an energy

line that the dowsers had told us were there and we had crystals and we played

certain sound that we had been told through Paul that we should be using

notes of music played as a sine wave which is a very pure form of sound

Anyway, so we conducted this experiment at sundown one evening, and that very

night, exactly that shape that we had expected appeared as a crop circle in

fields of Sussex.

Now, we didn't make it. Nobody else knew what shape we'd chosen. It was carried

out in total secrecy, and there was that formation.

And other groups have conducted similar work. It's not just us.

There is some interactive process going on here, which basically can contribute

to the creation of crop circles.

But there were other things too. I mean, in the run -up to that experiment over

the years, what we found was the more we tried to communicate with whatever was

behind the circles, the more we had strange things happening to us.

and a number of our team members saw strange balls of light just like the

of light that people have videoed in and around crop circles over the years.

Also other strange sort of psychic things began to happen. It's like we

opening up and something was then feeling like it was invited in and we

started to have very odd experiences.

On the first day that we gathered at Paul Buehrer's house to discuss the

experiment we were going to do, the first crop circle in Sussex of that year

appeared in the field as closest to his house as it could have been. There'd

never been one there before.

And there again, I mean, what was the chance of that?

So it was like something was tuning into us and saying to us, yeah, you're on

the right line. But whether that was something listening in or whether that

something we were putting out, we're not sure. Okay.

But over the years, there's been a development in the crop circles. Can you

describe what you make of that?

Well, I mean, one of the more controversial aspects to this whole

that the shapes have not stayed the same. They have clearly grown more

complicated over the years, which has been the cause of many, many arguments.

I think you have to choose your theory before you can explain that.

Because some people think that they're growing more complex because it is a

message of communication.

And it's like something slowly making little patterns to begin with which get

people's attention very gradually.

And then they're building it up a little bit more and a little bit more so that

we're getting more information from them. But other people who think it's

down to psychic interaction or the natural energy fields of the planets

that maybe there's some build -up there, some energy field whatever.

is building up and therefore contributing to more complexity.

But I think to explain exactly why this is happening, I think is very difficult

to say for sure. So you don't have any personal theories of what's actually

going on?

What I've found over the years is that anybody who chooses a theory and then

will only stick to that one theory, nearly always, sooner or later, meets

brick wall.

where they can't go any further because then you come across a piece of

information that challenges your theory and then we've seen a lot of people over

the years fall by the wayside when they've realized that it's not going to

this or it's not going to be that or it's not and then they lose their

enthusiasm.

What I think is the best approach and where I stand on it is to be open to all

the different theories.

I honestly do not know for sure, what is creating crop circles.

And I suspect the ultimate answer will be a combination of all the different

theories that have been put forward. But anybody who says that they know for

sure, I'm afraid it's either not telling the truth or it's at best a guess.

Okay.

Is there evidence that the military has interest in this, do you think?

Over the years, we've seen various military helicopters hovering over

particularly in Wiltshire, clearly looking at crop circles. But I don't

whether that's evidence of any kind of conspiracy.

I mean, we know that Salisbury Plain, which is an area where they train

personnel, is very nearby to some of the crop circle areas. A lot of helicopter

pilots would probably just...

in training be drawn to these circles it's a good thing to teach people how to

sort of you know hover around them whatever i don't know that the

are evidence that the military are actually up to something but that said

sure they are more interested than they let on when we have heard that the

ministry of defense over the years have conducted their own tests on circle

affected crop you know there have been cases where people have been removed

the field and military personnel have gone in. So this does happen.

That does not say to me that the military know what's going on, but it

that they are just as interested as you and I are to know what the answer might

be.

I know some people think that the military may create them using

lasers and that.

All I would say to that theory is why would they test this equipment so

publicly?

in front of everybody and then spend the rest of their time debunking it, as

they seem to do, when there must be acres and acres of secret land they

test these things on. So personally, unless they're deliberately trying to

up some strange double bluff, I don't think that logically makes sense that

the military making them, but I'm sure they'd love to know.

Anything that you would like to add? I mean, there are things going on right

that...

you would like to say something about i think one of the problems where you have

a phenomenon that nobody can actually explain is that you get factions of

who believe in one thing and not another and what we're getting at the moment is

this sort of uh there's a group of crop circle researchers who want to be taken

seriously by the outside world but what they're doing

knowing that most people on the outside world are skeptical, they're trying to

appease the skeptics by saying, yes, they're nearly all man -made, but

few that are not. But in doing so, then they're saying things which are...

completely unjustifiable.

They are, I think, are being far too sympathetic to the skeptics and I think

they're betraying their own knowledge because there are people who are trying

keep the skeptics happy who know very well that there's a large proportion of

the phenomenon out there that is not so easily explained by humans but in trying

to appease those people on the outside in the hope of being taken seriously I

think is a big mistake and I think the elastic will snap back. and that they

will not come out the better for it. We have to, I think, look at what is there

in the field and speak the honest truth about that evidence, however

uncomfortable it may be, however stupid it may make you look. But we have to

talk about what is there, not say what we think people want us to say. And I

think that's the biggest mistake that's going on at the moment.

I see.

There is also a piece of video around...

from the Oliver Castle experience.

And as I have come to know, it's quite, there's a big discussion

going on if it's real or not real. What are your feelings about that?

The Oliver's Castle video is one of the most controversial things that ever

happened in crop circle history.

What I think is interesting is by and large, most people seem to now accept it

as a probable.

hoax but nobody's yet in saying that been able to explain exactly how it was

done i mean special effects experts have looked at this footage and said well

you would need you know at least several days if not several weeks to make this

even with the best equipment in the world and yet The man who allegedly took

this video of the formation appearing under these balls of light was showing

this video in a local pub on the day the formation appeared.

So there's many unanswered questions. If he did fake it, how would he have

managed to do it so quickly?

Number one. Number two, why is it that though there have been claims...

and there have been talk of that he's confessed to having made it, whatever,

there's still no definitive evidence that that piece of video is hoaxed. And

even though, allegedly, the man people say was the man who took it has

said that, yes, he faked it, he's not managed to show how he faked it.

The conspiracy theorists say that he has been paid to say that he faked it, to

cover up the real evidence. So when you're faced with a situation like that,

will never know the truth.

So we don't. All I would say is, I think it's a very impressive piece of

footage, and from what we've heard from eyewitnesses, from people who claim

they've seen crop circles appearing, at the very least, it's a very good

impression of what it must be like to see what a crop circle is like appearing

in front of you. Whether it's real or not, I don't think we will ever know.

Okay.

Have you yourself experienced these so -called balls of light by any occasion?

I saw the balls of light with a group of people in 1993 at Alton Barnes.

It was at night, and it was over the fields, the east field, where many of

large formations have appeared over the years. And we watched a series of these

lights, you know, floating up, moving across the field at Alton Barnes.

We also, that year, saw some very strange, dark, flickering shapes moving

over the fields in the very early hours of the morning, which again...

had no rational explanation.

You know, they weren't birds, they weren't planes. They were huge, like

of darkness, flickering very quickly from side to side with a strobing effect

across the downs at Alton Barnes.

So, yes, I have seen very strange things associated with crop circles, which,

again, other people have reported.

But to say for sure, therefore, what it is, is impossible at this point.

But I also have heard that people have had different experiences with

sensing kind of energies or some feel very comfortable, some

feel kind of a discomfort.

Have you ever felt any kind of physical or psychological effects on your own

body when you have entered circles?

Some people are very sensitive to the effects of crop circles. I tend not to

that sensitive, but I have once or twice in going into a crop circle felt this

strange tingling, like an electrical tingling going through me, which I have

felt at stone circles, funnily enough. Not often, but just on a few occasions

that have happened.

I suppose with me, I always think, well, maybe that's just me because, you know,

I expect to feel like that or whatever.

very profound effects and the health has been affected. I mean the tales of

miracle cures taking place inside crop circles. There's also tales of people

being very ill for weeks afterwards.

Now some of that could be psychosomatic, some of it could be pesticide allergy.

But, you know, there's other things harder to explain, in particular the way

electronic equipment malfunctions in crop circles above statistical chance.

Mobile phones, video cameras, you know, there's many tales of them going wrong

in a crop circle and yet you take them outside and they'll work fine.

So clearly something is being radiated or focused.

in the crop circle, which affects anything that you take inside it,

be us as people, or equipment, or animals. I mean, animals also have been

to behave very strangely inside crop circles.

So, something is going on there that does affect people, and I've only felt

little over the years, but I'm sure there is something there.

Why do you think this is going on right now, I mean, at this time and age?

I think the reason for crop circles now, or certainly why they're proliferating

so much now, because it seems clear to me there is historical evidence of crop

circles going back hundreds of years. I think personally that's an absolute

given now.

But I think there is obviously something at work here which has led it to be on

an upward curve of complexity.

I mean, the numbers have levelled out now.

But the complexity certainly does seem to be moving up towards something.

Again, I think you have to choose your theory. If you think it's a

communication, then obviously whatever's communicating thinks that we're ready

for more and more every year.

If you think it's psychic interaction, natural energy fields, you've still got

to say something is building up, something is changing.

I mean, we know a scientific fact that the Earth...

natural energy fields are changing, the poles, the magnetic poles are moving,

and we know this, so the crop circles could be some symptom or outward sign of

that, but I also think that it may be that throughout history there has

been a natural mechanism which will create simple circles, be it the weather

whatever, but maybe there's been a natural mechanism, but that something

has now either learned to tap that, mechanism to make more complexity or

something else now coming in in nature which is creating something using the

same basic mechanism but something that we have not seen before or at least not

in living memory I know some people think that maybe years ago you know back

ancient times the crop circles came maybe they come now and then in history

we need them or just maybe as a symptom of the earth shifting energy fields but

whatever there's a feeling that they're building up to something some big event

some people believe for instance the year 2012 is going to be a pivotal time

maybe there's some herald of that maybe there's a big transformation a big

change in the offing certainly what crop circles do

wherever they come from, is they make people feel that there is some big

in the air. And whether they're intended to make people feel that or not is

almost irrelevant.

That's what they're doing to people. They're making people aware that there

something in the air, big change is afoot. And I think that whichever way

look at it, the crop circles are tied in with that in some way.

To people that have not heard about this before, I mean like viewers that see

this for the first time, what would you say?

Crop circles are mysterious patterns that appear in fields every summer,

and now around the world. Some countries get more than others, and it does seem

to be more in the northern hemisphere than the southern hemisphere, but

for some reason, seems to be the heart of it.

The crop is not crushed, it's not damaged.

It continues to grow and ripen with the rest of the field, and it's spiraled.

And the circles, which seem to be the main components of the patterns, can be

arranged in a number of ways, which creates more and more complexity.

But also, we've now had other patterns, triangles, rectangles, all sorts of

geometrical combinations, which create these very stunning pictures in the

field. Nobody really knows what makes them.

or where they come from but what's happening around them is the interest in

is leading people to explore the realm of the mysterious and each year you get

more crop circles each year you get people saying they're all man -made they

must be a hoax but equally there's people who refuse to accept that and say

this is something which must be investigated more it's very important

what we've found with the crop circles is it has created a whole forum for

debate over the nature of reality.

There's been nothing like it in modern history.

And this whole adventure about arguing between the skeptics and the believers

has created this magical space in the middle where we can discuss anything

what the universe is. And all because of these strange patterns appearing in the

field. But we don't actually know where they come from.

The scientific part is very important in establishing the credibility of the

subject and it's fundamental in doing that. But at the same time, if

one is just totally scientific, one can lose the magical aspect

of this phenomenon.

And there are many people who've had the most fantastic healing experiences.

And in a way, their life has been changed due to these experiences.

It's rather like when people have had an out -of -body experience, they come

back and they're different people.

And their whole outlook on life has changed. They're more positive.

realize they can heal. I mean, we can all heal, but these people then have an

awareness of their ability to heal.

And it's the same in a way in the crop circles.

People have these wonderful events and they come back and they're sort of

radiant people.

And this is lovely. But I have to say, and I do have to emphasize this quite

strongly, that not everybody feels well.

And I'm perfectly certain this phenomenon is a beneficial one. It's not

benevolent. But the energies that we're dealing with, we're dealing with a set

of very complex, subtle energies which interact in a personal way with our own

metabolisms. And sometimes we may not be feeling well, or this, that, and the

next thing, or they may not be interacting in a way that actually is

to us.

And many people have felt nauseous.

We've had some very strange reactions.

So if anybody is, I always say, if anybody feels well, but it doesn't feel

if they feel ill, come out very quickly.

If anybody is pregnant or thinking of becoming pregnant, I'd say don't go in

because we don't know really what we're dealing with. And most emphatically, if

anybody's got a health device which is geared by a battery, for goodness sakes,

don't go in. We've had too many electrical failures, dramatic electrical

failures.

Sometimes I've been flying over a formation and the instruments in the

have gone all haywire.

And my camera refuses to work. That's when I've got the most perfect shot.

It won't work.

And then other times we fly away and it comes back and it works. But I've made a

list out. I went to, with a colleague, I went to the Royal School of Medicine

and we tried to categorize all these effects.

And what we found was, these are the effects, the categories, oral.

Now, in this particular category, we get extraordinary taste.

It's like a metallic taste, except it isn't, but that's the only way I can

describe it. And it's totally invasive, and you can't rinse it out, you can't

spit it out, and it's sort of clawing in your mouth.

And I was talking about this one time in Washington, D .C., And a man who was

interested in spontaneous combustion, where very, very few cases actually

survive, but one of the very few surviving cases, they described

this metallic taste as when the process was going on.

Extraordinary.

Toothpain, unusual thirst.

Extraordinary thirst.

I mean, really sort of...

Galloping first, where people will drink liters and liters and liters of water

afterwards.

Cranial, that's headaches.

We get all sorts of different headaches. We get migraine variant, which is a

little unknown type of migraine.

Ocular, that's vision changes and hallucinations.

Auditory, well, that's hearing.

Then gut, which is nausea, intense nausea. People feel as though they're

to be sick. I've felt that.

And you get out as fast as you can down a tram line. When you're outside the

aura of the formation, it goes like that.

It's sort of like radiation sickness.

It's most bizarre.

Diarrhea.

Sudden hunger.

Now, sudden hunger, again, that's an interesting one because I'm not a

hungry person.

And I've rather poo -pooed these reports, you see, from other people who

they were ravenous, they could have eaten a horse and all the rest.

And one time we were doing hormone tests.

I'd had the people for lunch. We'd done the test outside the circle. I had

people back for lunch. We went into the circle.

And as I came out, I was ravenous.

I'd had a very good lunch.

So I couldn't believe it. So, you know, one just doesn't poo -poo these things.

Systemic. Now, that's dizziness and weak knees, leg pain. A lot of people get

leg pain, and it's all to do with a sort of stimulation of the hypothalamus,

which is in the forepart of our brain.

Mental, now this is the largest category because this is where our thought

processes are affected.

We get memory loss and feelings of

panic and really going to feelings of terror and then evil.

And on the other side, we get feelings of love and light and euphoria.

And another strange one is a feeling of a sense of a presence, that you feel

somebody is in there with you. And you look around and there isn't anybody.

There was one particular formation in 1991 at Bithorn where people were doing

meditation.

And one woman sitting heard somebody walk up and join them. She didn't open

eyes. And when she was at the end of the meditation, she looked around. There

was nobody else.

joined the group.

So she felt a bit stupid. She didn't say anything.

But the man next door to her said, where was the person who walked up behind us

and joined the group? He'd heard it too.

Nobody was there.

So these are all very, very strange things. I think I have suffered just

every single one of these effects.

It's interesting. I think it's...

originates in many different ways.

Really, in the formations, in the genuine ones, the geometry is

perfect. It's absolutely, awesomely perfect.

Even if the formation is maybe 1500 foot in diameter, which we have had, which

is absolutely colossal.

When this happens, you very often get the diatonic ratio involved, which is a

musical. It's on a piano. It's the white notes on the piano.

Now, this relates also to the figures, to geometry.

And this is giving off frequencies.

So you are being given off frequencies.

Now, our brain responds to music.

The sound of the music resonates through the air into the brain.

And you can go really quite weak at the knees. You know, you get an emotional

response kickstart in the brain.

And the same thing happens with images.

And it's known as a sign stimulus, where the brain is responding to the

frequencies and the shapes without the person actually being aware that this is

happening.

So I think this is what is inducing these states of altered consciousness.

And it's really very lovely as people have these magical experiences.

Also, when I've been giving talks, I've found that people come up to me

afterwards with different reports. Sometimes people are healed.

It has nothing to do with me. It has to do with the frequencies given off by the

shapes which are interacting with their own personal frequencies.

And then other people have had to close their eyes.

on a certain shape, they have not been able to look at it. It's affected them.

So we are dealing with things that do in some way interact

with our brains and our levels of consciousness.

in a most extraordinary way. I think we don't really understand our brains.

I mean, let alone we can't understand this phenomenon, but we certainly can't

understand our brains. I think memory is not just located in the hypothalamus or

any other place.

Our brains are holographic.

And this, I find, is one of the most fascinating aspects of the thing because

you're examining the aspects of the brain too, the workings of the brain.

And that is another subject which can keep you going really ad infinitum.

There seems to be a kind of an electromagnetic field or a

force or a type of energy still remaining in the circle days after. Yes,

terms of the energy, I believe it is the residual energy.

from the originating force, which is the electromagnetic field, because what we

believe is happening is that the force originates probably in the ionosphere.

And what we do know is that the ionosphere is at its lowest between 2

the morning, and therefore the Earth's electromagnetic field is at its highest.

And this seems to tie in very neatly with when the majority of formations

appear.

We know then that it comes down in a spiralling, vortical form, hits the

probably with hundreds of thousands of volts per metre, but just for a

nanosecond, otherwise you get scorching, and then it hits the plants at the

base, which soften quite naturally, and travels up inside the stems, breaking

down the molecular structure as it goes, stretching the cells, because in fact

what it is, it's a heating process, rather like a microwave, you know, it's

cooking from the inside.

And then when the heat gets too great, it comes out through the joints. You

know, the plants have joints.

And you get these tiny, tiny little expulsion cavities.

So we do know that the electromagnetic field is a moving field.

So what we're dealing with is the residual effects of the electromagnetic

which are lodged in the soil and in the plants.

All the different experiences that you have done, they confirm that there is

a heavy energy issue, or that there is energy that

creates, both creates a circle, of course, and also that remains for a

time. A period of time. Sometimes it all depends.

It seems to, people seem to soak up the energy like blotting paper.

So if a lot of people go into the formation, the energy is of much shorter

duration than if few people visited.

But have you, I guess you have, speculated on why?

and how and all these questions. Yes, well, the how is not so difficult apart

from getting blocked by the intelligence, whatever the answer is to

intelligence. The why, I feel possibly could be,

or yes, it's to do with communication.

I think...

If we thought we were the only people in this whole universe, it would be not

only arrogant, but it might be slightly lonely.

I like to think of other beings being around. I'm quite convinced that they

benevolent people.

And possibly we're sort of the Stone Age as compared to them.

and we've got a hell of a lot to learn. And this seems to me to have been an

evolutionary process that we've started off with very simple circles. It's

rather like going to kindergarten, and then you progress slowly. Year by year,

you move up a stage.

And this seems to be what's happening in the crop circle phenomenon, that we've

moved from being very simple, easy to learn, alphabet, and we're getting more

and more complex.

So you don't think that it is actually the circle makers that are...

kind of developing their own technique, and that's improving every year.

Ah, you mean the unknown force, the unknown energy. Yes, maybe they're

as well.

I'd never thought of it from that aspect.

Yes, maybe they are. I'd like to think of it as some great sort of imaginative

project, maybe in the mind of the creator.

But, I mean, we do know that certain ones are man -made. We obviously do know

that.

But again, this is where I find it fascinating that you don't get the same

effect in the man -made ones as you do in the genuine ones.

I was doing an interview, I can't remember for whom, and they said, well,

would you do, Lucy, if this phenomenon was proved not to exist at all, that it

was all a sham?

And I said, well, I would find that even more fascinating because I would like

to have the explanation.

for what my scientific results that I'm finding, there needs to be

an explanation for those.

So it still ends up as, you know, one just is on

a journey of exploration, if you like.

Fascinating, meeting wonderful people on the way and just enjoying, because

there's a beauty.

Isn't there? There's a beauty to these formations, which is absolutely magical.

But do you see any connection between these formations in this area and the

ancient sites that are all around? Oh, yes. Oh, yes, very much so.

Because we have a network of energy lines or ley lines that go right around

planet. And in these particular areas where we've got Silbury Hill, Avebury,

And around here, we've got a lot of tumuli and barrows and ancient places.

And in the old days, our forefathers would walk along an energy line

just as easily as if we would walk along the edge of that carpet. I mean, we can

see at the edge of that carpet. They would follow an energy line as easily as

could follow the edge of the carpet.

And they might come to a spot where they got a tingle.

And they'd say, ooh.

I wonder what's happening there.

And so they put a stone down as a marker.

And somebody else would come along and say, oh, yes, something's happening

And they put another stone down. And little by little, you might get a sort

building up of a little sort of edifice, a little cairn or something like that.

Then it might become an altar.

And then it might turn into, in the old days, a chapel or a church and

eventually a cathedral.

And Chartres and all the other cathedrals that we have and the special

England are on these lines.

And these lines are throbbing lines.

And sensitive people, they know when they're on them, I can tell you.

And looking out over the hills over there, that's the Pilgrim's Way, way up

South Harting. And there are lines radiating down from there.

But are they measurable with the scientific tools?

Not, no, they're not. You would have to have instruments which were so

sensitive. And again, this is way, way outside our budget.

The Russians are doing a lot of research onto subtle energies.

They're way ahead of us. And there's somebody who also joins my team.

called Dr.

Roger Taylor. He was one of our leading research microbiologists.

And he works with somebody called Konstantin Kurokov, who's very well

physicist in St.

Petersburg. And he works with Kalyan Photography.

Now, Kalyan Photography is very interesting.

I was saying to a Russian, but surely he won't get sponsored, I said, by the

government. And he said, well, yes, he will.

because apparently if you have a gun and the number has been filed off so that

you can't see it at all, it's absolutely not there, Kirlian photography will

pick it up.

It's still there in some sort of the magnetic field, electromagnetic field,

number is still there using Kirlian photography.

And so we do this technique again with people going into crop circles,

their body aura.

And where do you find that?

We find sometimes it's depleted, sometimes it's increased. And the only

going into the formation last year where people were so badly affected, the only

person who...

Thyroid actually increased with Isabel Maxwell -Cade.

And Roger Taylor sent me his results, which were really very interesting and

totally compatible with the hormone findings.

Apparently the thumb, the aura around the thumb, actually relates to thyroid.

And Isabel's thumbs, the aura before she went in, were very much smaller.

When she was in the formation, they'd increased enormously.

So that, again, tied up with the hormone testing, which was very interesting.

Kind of give a personal message to people watching this documentary that

never really have maybe even heard about crop circles.

I mean, what would you say to people?

Well, I would say that the best thing in the world would be to experience them

yourself.

look at the pictures, read the books, go to talks.

But there was one woman who came up to me after one of the talks and she said,

you know, I've read all the books, I've been to masses of lectures, but she said

nothing, absolutely nothing, prepared me for the magic of actually going into a

crop circle myself.

So I would say to people, if you can possibly visit a crop circle, visit one,

but always ask the farmer first.

Because it's his private land and it's his livelihood that you're actually

in and it's his land. So always ask permission first.

But I would say have an open mind when you go in.

Have a completely open mind because we all have our senses, which we don't

necessarily understand.

And if you let your senses, senses really are the basis of everything,

they? Instead of ruling our senses, sometimes just let your senses rule

and see.

See what happens.

Michael Glickman.

In earlier statements that you've made, you have pointed out that the crop

circles indicate a change of paradigm or a kind of a dimensional shift.

Do you still hold this opinion?

I was... Looking back, I realized that I was absolutely right.

There's no doubt in my mind that we're on this

journey of change.

And I don't, as I've said before, I don't think

the crop circles are responsible for it. I

don't think they're doing it.

But I think the authors of the crop circles are very much aware of this.

And they also realize that we earthlings,

who are profoundly stupid,

as well as divine, miraculous, inventive, graceful, loving,

but thick,

We don't know what's going on. And I think our cousins who are

the

impresarios of the crop circles are using the crop

circles to aid our transition and to give us

some clues about this.

Important time But that brings up another question And that is

If this really is important for people all over the world To

join in Why is it that this particular phenomena Is appearing in

this particular place on the planet? Oh, come on, that's a silly question That

is a silly question Why?

Number one, because I don't know and nobody knows why it's here. But then,

this is like saying the Wright brothers

flew their aeroplane and they developed it in Ohio.

Didn't they realise that aviation was important for the whole world?

Everything has to start somewhere.

And you can say, why here, why here? Well, it will spread.

It's spreading already.

And the Wright brothers chose that

area because they were making bicycles and they knew that area, so that's where

they started.

Now, who can say why the crop circle authorities?

The crops are called engineers.

Why did they choose this area?

This is a deep question which we could go into, but it's a question which is

limited in time.

Historically, it is of importance, but in the last 20 years,

we've seen the way it's spread. I mean, where are you from?

You're from Norway.

How did you find out about it?

Suzanne Taylor's from America.

Andreas Muller's from Germany.

There are people from Australia.

It spreads.

It doesn't matter where it starts.

If, for historical reasons, you wish to go into the

possible reasons for the selection of this beautiful valley

as the heart of it then we could discuss that but

everything has to start somewhere the crop circles started here

but they will be everywhere one Thursday afternoon

at 4 .15

But still, even when it's the fact that these formations are here, I mean,

clearly visible to everyone,

why do you think it takes so long before the general public recognize them?

We're not ready. We're a long way from ready. What can you say about

the stubbornness of our species, you know? I mean, we're driven

fundamentally by a need to survive.

This is our...

dynamo. But a subsidiary part of this

dynamo to enhance our survival is we must keep the world the way

it was yesterday.

This is a desperate, fearful enterprise.

Resist change.

And the amount of terror

Real terror that is embodied in the idea of change is breathtaking.

And fundamentally, people are very frightened, not by the crop circles,

but by the shadow of the crop circles, by the implications of the crop circles.

Because if...

The crop circles are real. Well, of course they are real. But if the crop

circles are real, this destroys science, religion,

philosophy, history, psychology.

People don't want that.

I mean, again, to go to the white brothers,

They flew their aeroplane in 1903.

In 1907, Lord Baden -Powell, who was the chairman

of, I don't know, the British Aerial

Society, which was to do, essentially, with hot air balloons,

sent a letter to all his members saying,

You will have heard rumours from America about a heavier than aircraft flying.

Don't worry about it. This is impossible.

And a lot of men and women all over England thank goodness

thank you Lord Baden -Powell for reassuring us that

this

Cataclysmic change in the world was not going to happen.

And suddenly we're faced with crop circles and the implications of

what will be the biggest cultural shock this planet has ever

received. Of course people don't want to know.

Of course they're scared. Of course they prefer to...

Say, oh, it's all hoaxes. Go away.

Go away.

Yeah, but, I mean, speaking of the hoaxes, what is your comment

to, you know, the general opinion that they all are made by

people just fooling around? The idea... I don't want to speak about

this. It's a waste of our energy.

What I have to say, and here's a rule, a law, an absolute...

Absolute truth.

The only people who believe they're all made by men are people who know nothing

about it.

It's very easy to support the hoax hypothesis with your head

buried in the sand.

It is impossible to believe they're all made by men if you've

seen one, read a book, seen a video, been to a

conference, been to a lecture. These people haven't.

Listen, listen, it's not my intention to upset people, you know.

I mean, if people sleep better, as most do, believing crop

circles are a slightly funny joke produced by

people from the pub, then I don't mind.

That is their life and their world.

But are there codes in these patterns, or are the patterns themselves

just it?

I mean, are there layers of information? How do you think? Well, you see, it's

very hard, isn't it? Because, I mean, I get information

from them at a certain level.

And other researchers get other information at another level.

But I don't believe the crop circles are messages. I

believe the crop circles are communications.

Communications.

They're much more subtle.

And I've used this before, but I'll say it again.

A message is when you call home and you tell your wife to switch

the oven off.

That's a message.

A communication is when you go home and you stroke her hair.

These are communications.

And I think in our world we want messages.

Tell us to turn the oven off.

Should we turn the oven off?

What should we do?

And what the crop circles are doing, they're just stroking us.

They're just saying, hey, the important thing about the crop circles is

that we are here and we care.

That's the most important thing. Now, once you establish the

fundamental of this communication, we are here and we care,

it's possible to go further and to

take a deeper and more subtle

series.

of ideas from the phenomenon.

But who is it, Michael?

I mean, who are sending us these things?

Mrs. Ivy Burnsall of 137 Rose Grove.

What do you mean, who is it?

Who is it?

Others.

I don't know. He said, you want me to give you that visiting card?

I don't know. I mean, I think it's our

cousins who care for us very deeply.

And we will get to meet them,

or maybe we won't.

to think we will get to meet them.

I think, look, whatever happens, I would

stake everything on the idea that we are

moving into the era of the

greatest.

Transformation this planet has ever experienced and it's not going to be

but Why do you think that is happening

in this particular period of time why right now

Well, I think the 2012 thing is significant

and I don't fully understand it but

there are so many layers in the 2012 thing that

it shatters

all our conventional views of causality and physics

and time.

How could the Mayan civilization have

so accurately known about 2012 how

could they have understood this and then if

you read Jeff Stray's book which is a masterpiece you see that

many other civilizations hit on

Exactly the same date.

There's also the thing of the way the

Earth seems, there is the idea, and I don't know, about the Earth

passing through various belts and various physical changes.

and pole shifts, all these ideas are coming up.

They all seem to relentlessly snap

back like an elastic band to 2012.

And I just have this vision of

gigantic machinery.

Clonking over big iron cogwheels as big as a

continent.

Clonking over.

And everybody in the universe,

all consciousnesses in the universe have been waiting for

this moment. And we here in planet Earth,

We're, you know, blissfully, blissfully ignorant.

I mean, look at the

irony of our situation.

On the one hand, the biggest pillar of our

planet Our way of life, our health is fossil fuel.

On the other hand, the most treasured commodity

of planet Earth for which people will launch massive wars is

fossil fuel.

Now, this is

bewildering.

And we're looking at reality through the wrong

end of a telescope and not seeing what's there. And I just have

this sense that outside there, there are a million

intelligences,

tumultuous, turbulent,

clamoring, saying, for God's sake, wake up down there.

What are you doing?

And I think the crop circles are part of this.

Yeah, but I mean, what very naturally pops into your mind is that if

it's that critical, and if it's of such a concern of those or the others, why

don't they intervene more directly than doing it on this very discreet way?

For two reasons.

One is ethical and one is practical.

You know Star Trek.

You know the prime directive of Star Trek.

The prime directive...

to the star crews was that

they must never interfere

directly into the affairs of a less evolved civilization

and I

believe this is a very sacred

ethical constraint and Gene Roddenberry was

remarkably prescient in having this idea but I believe it's a

real idea it's an absolutely pure

moral imperative

don't Screw, you know, I mean, this world has a history

of marching in and saying, we will give you Christianity.

We will give you our medicine. We'll give you our technology.

Right? We screw them up.

And I think on a planetary level, the consequences are more severe. So I think

ethically, they stand off.

Practice.

They know us better than we know ourselves.

And the old question, why don't they land on the White House lawn?

Well, this would be landing in the grounds of a lunatic asylum

where the lunatics are armed.

What would we do?

We would try and nuke them.

Now, in fact, they're so evolved technologically as well as spiritually

the idea of harming them, you know, is a joke. But our

world would fragment. It would unravel.

I believe the biggest shock in the world will be the moment where

we have to grit our teeth and say, huh?

There's someone else out there and they're brighter than

we are.

They understand more than we do.

They're more gracious than we are. They're more loving than we are.

They're knocking on our door. They don't want to sell us anything.

They don't want to take anything from us.

All they want to do is care for us.

The biggest shock planet Earth will achieve, and it will unravel

catastrophically. And I think they are standing off because they have this

dilemma. On the one hand, they want to come in and help. On the other hand,

know that coming in to help, they will be debunked, rebutted, attacked.

They will be told that they are hoaxers.

So, how can we then, as a civilization, I mean,

how can we establish contact without

breaking this universal rule?

Well, you say, before I go further, let me remove from your question the

three words

As a civilization.

Because I think we have seen that our civilization is

limited and corrupt and wicked.

So I don't think as a civilization we can do anything.

I think we can do a lot as individuals. And I think all we can do as

individuals, and it's a substantial amount,

Is each fashion or small brick to add to the big wall.

That's all we can do.

There'll come a time when the world says, oh yeah, we knew that.

We knew that all the time.

But there's no way we can act as a group.

I fear.

You know, being here in a wheelchair and seeing all this military activity

in this area, you know, planes all over the place, bombshells going off not far

from here, and the fact that the crop circles appear every summer, I mean,

are your thoughts about that?

Well, look, I have to say what I've said before.

My email is not packed with communications from Number 10

down the street, from the government, from the Department of...

from the Ministry of War or whatever they call it. I don't know what they

I don't know what they do.

Whatever they do has to be a matter of speculation.

I would be very surprised if

they haven't done some

work on the crop circles.

I would be very surprised if fundamentally they are not of the basic

view that the crop circles are the work of hoaxers. Because

soldiers are also humans.

And they don't want to... Soldiers have not got the imagination to

face the wider implications of the crop circles.

So I'm sure they will have looked around the edges of it, but...

I mean, can you imagine being...

Being the guy looking at this who has to send a memo to Tony Blair saying, Dear

Mr Blair, we cannot explain this. We think the source

of the crop circle phenomenon is non -terrestrial.

Can you imagine having to take that responsibility?

It doesn't happen.

They're part of this consciousness as well.

And that's why the media is also so... Yeah.

Yeah?

Imagine being the editor of a newspaper who has to

publish the headline, Earth is round, official.

You wouldn't want to do it, you know.

What is your new book about?

The Crop Circles.

It's about, it's a memoir.

It's about my personal story. No one knows what's going on.

I don't know what's going on.

So I'm just sick of half

-baked textbooks, you know.

I don't know what's going on. I have simply written an honest

account of my involvement in the crop circle phenomenon from

1990 to 2003 as a memoir, honestly written,

so people can make of it what they will.

There is no index.

There is no bibliography. There are no references.

I have no aspirations to

stating facts or

theories. I'm simply giving my own experience.

So it's a memoir.

Yeah.

When did you get involved in this and why?

I mean, just to look back at the history of this.

Gee, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I was an architect, you

know.

And as an architect, I was always very interested in the way things were put

together.

I loved, as I still do, making things.

And I also did a lot of engineering and product development.

So I was spending a lot of time in factories.

I was always very impressed with the ingenuity of

the production engineer.

I was also interested in movies and spent time

around movies.

My three sons are in film.

So I've always been close to special effects.

So my architecture gave me an interest

in shape and geometry, number.

And then, as a human being, I was always interested in the...

the unusual, spontaneous human combustion,

flying saucers, all that stuff.

And I'd been watching crop circles, thinking, oh, that's very interesting.

And then one day, I opened the newspaper, and

there was a picture of the big,

Alton Barnes pictogram in July of 1990 and

I said to my youngest son I'm going

to drive down there now and he said he'd come with me and I walked into

this crop circle and I felt at that

stage with some real arrogance that I knew how everything on the

planet was made.

I mean, I know about aluminium and plastic and wood and steel,

and I know about the way they're put together. I know about the way

scenery is made, as seen for films, etc.

And I walked into this crop circle and I was

bewildered.

That first crop circle I went in and I thought,

this is other,

this is from elsewhere. I do not know who

could have put this together or how.

Or why?

Or in what form?

Or with what purpose? I was bewildered by this.

A bewilderment which has stayed with me to this day.

I mean, the other thing about the dumb supporters of the hoax hypothesis

is that they are never.

makers of things you know somebody made that

but you'll never find a builder or a

designer saying oh somebody made that they think if

somebody made that I understand how much effort and organization and planning

will be involved.

Most people don't ever organize a

project like this, so they don't know what kind of effort would be involved.

As a closing, what would you say to a person seeing

these things or becoming aware of these things for the first time? Like, I mean,

if this interview was broadcasted or whatever. I mean, what do you say to the

person who's never been aware of this before?

Open your heart.

Open your heart.

Open your heart.

Simple as that.

What can you say?

I mean, I am as bewildered as anybody, but I've spent a lot of time thinking

about it.

That's all. But I'm still adrift.

All we can do is open our hearts, ignore the

stupid consensus, ignore the worldview.

And open your individual, personal heart to which no one else has access

unless you give it to them.

Open your heart.

Respond.

Thanks, Michael.

Thank you.