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Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
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The demo which you're about to see,
and hopefully participate in...
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(Decuir) 'The original inventor
of video games, Ralph Baer.'
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He was sitting there working for
a defence contractor in the United States
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In Manchester, New Hampshire, in 1968,
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and he was thinking that this technology
would let us bring stories home.
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And so he designed a box
called the Brown Box,
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which was all discrete.
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There were no microprocessors yet.
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And he didn't use
any integrated circuits at all,
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he just built discrete circuits
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that would create simple objects
on a TV screen
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and let a controller move them.
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And he sat there, he got it to work,
he got a lot of broad-ranging patents,
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but his company was
an aerospace company,
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they didn't know anything at all
about consumer electronics.
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So finally his company
hooked up with Magnavox,
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and they came out
with the Magnavox Odyssey.
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'Magnavox presents Odyssey,
the electronic game of the future.
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'Odyssey easily attaches to any
brand TV, black-and-white or colour,
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'to create a closed-circuit
electronic playground.'
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(Decuir) That was demonstrated in
the San Francisco Bay area in 1972,
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and Nolan Bushnell saw it,
and he was inspired.
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Now Bushnell had been thinking about
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bringing video games to the arcade world,
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00:05:15,653 --> 00:05:18,923
and he'd been starting trying to figure out
how to take Computer Space,
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which was done with large computers
on vector monitors,
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and trying to come up
with something that did that.
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And that was all discrete logic too.
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But then he saw
this easy, accessible game
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and he took the idea and he asked
Al Alcorn to build an implementation of it,
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and that became Atari Pong.
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That put Atari on the map.
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So that got Atari
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to be the leader
in the arcade video game business,
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as opposed
to the home video game business,
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which Magnavox was the pioneer in.
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Then they started building
more complicated machines.
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They started with random logic,
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and then they started experimenting
with microprocessors.
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So then that set up a square
that was incomplete.
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There were home Pong-type games.
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There were arcade Pong-like games.
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There were more complicated
arcade video games
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00:06:16,413 --> 00:06:18,983
and the place to complete was,
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"How can Atari, and their competitors,
bring the complicated games home?"
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That market problem was the one
that the Atari 2600,
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codenamed Stella, was intended to solve.
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00:06:32,830 --> 00:06:34,865
(Kaplan) Nolan bought
a group of engineers
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called Cyan Engineering.
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They were up in Grass Valley:
Steve Mayer, Larry Emmons, Ron Milner.
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00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,075
They were the three engineers,
and Nolan tasked them
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with building a consumer version
of a coin-op game.
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They hired Joe Decuir,
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and the four of them
built a giant bread board.
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It was always gonna be a console,
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we knew it was gonna be programmable
in some fashion,
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but we were under a lot of pressure
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to keep the bill and materials down.
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00:07:03,761 --> 00:07:06,063
To make it programmable
would have meant
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to have some built-in ROM
with a language.
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We would've needed some RAM
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to put the programs
that you were gonna create in.
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That would have made it more expensive.
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And we would've had to put in the cost
of some kind of keyboard controller.
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00:07:18,676 --> 00:07:21,178
And we thought it was too big a jump
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00:07:21,278 --> 00:07:23,814
to go all the way to a personal computer
the first time.
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00:07:23,914 --> 00:07:27,084
Jay Miner and Harold Lee
were the main chip guys,
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and Jay Miner did the whole design.
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00:07:28,986 --> 00:07:30,721
So he took that giant bread board,
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and he was gonna push it down
to a single chip.
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He basically produced the TIA chip,
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which was the
Television Interface Adaptor chip,
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00:07:37,461 --> 00:07:40,264
which shrunk 150 chips on a circuit board
in an arcade machine
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into one little tiny chip.
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00:07:42,032 --> 00:07:46,236
So he had to throw out a bunch of stuff
that the Grass Valley guys had done,
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so we ended up having to do the software
and of course we complained bitterly.
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"Come on, Jay. I don't wanna write
horizontal syncs every line, just do it!"
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But the things that he threw out
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perfectly set up so that we could do
what we ended up doing.
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00:08:00,117 --> 00:08:04,955
From the first crude
Tank and Pong games, till Pitfall!
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00:08:05,089 --> 00:08:09,026
We could've done a game
like Pitfall! graphics in 1976.
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We just didn't know how.
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The machine didn't change
over those six years, we did.
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00:08:15,766 --> 00:08:17,701
And so, part of that, or most of that,
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00:08:17,835 --> 00:08:20,571
was because Jay left off
a whole bunch of stuff.
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People got very creative within the first
two, three years of the lifespan of the VCS.
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And people did absolutely amazing and
staggeringly inventive things with that.
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(♪ SQUEEZE:
"Take Me I'm Yours")
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♪ Take me, I'm yours
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♪ Because dreams are made of this
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♪ Forever there'll be
a heaven in your kiss
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♪ Amusing belly dancers
Distract me from my wine
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♪ Across Tibetan mountains
Are memories of mine
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♪ I've stood some ghostly moments
With natives in the hills
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♪ Recorded here on paper
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♪ My chills and thrills and spills... ♪
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(Decuir) We were aware of Apple.
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We knew they were going after
the appliance computer market
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with much higher costs
and much different market.
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00:09:19,229 --> 00:09:23,167
You have the Apple II,
which was a really advanced computer.
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It had all kind of capacity for expansion
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that would help it do things for
business and science and office workers.
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00:09:31,175 --> 00:09:36,980
Meanwhile, Apple had cultivated a really
strong image as a computer company.
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Then you have the first Atari,
which is very limited,
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and gave them a reputation
as a game company.
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(Decuir) And we went after
the console market,
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because we were
an entertainment games company.
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And it helped us a lot
that we were thinking in those terms,
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and not in terms of productivity software.
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We re-wrestled that problem later
with our next machine.
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'Atari brings the computer age home.'
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- Gotta run, gotta go!
- Late again, Dad?
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'With an Atari home computer...'
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Have a nice day at the office!
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'...you can easily work at home
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'or open your home
to a world of possibilities.
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00:10:13,417 --> 00:10:18,489
'In fact, the hardest part about owning
an Atari home computer isn't how to use it,
119
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'but who gets to use it.'
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Market's closed, Dad.
Mind if I do my work?
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Hey, nope, no problem.
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00:10:25,629 --> 00:10:28,265
'Atari Home Computers.
We've brought the computer age home.'
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00:10:28,398 --> 00:10:31,768
Jay Miner had become
sort of head of the chip group.
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00:10:31,869 --> 00:10:38,575
Jay was the heart and soul behind
the Atari 400 and the Atari 800.
125
00:10:38,675 --> 00:10:40,911
When I was programming the 800 in 1980,
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I was stunned by just how clever
the design was.
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00:10:45,282 --> 00:10:48,218
The Atari 400 and 800
personal computer systems
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00:10:48,318 --> 00:10:50,787
have outstanding graphics capabilities.
129
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These features are made possible
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00:10:53,223 --> 00:10:56,860
by three unique,
large-scale integrated circuit chips.
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Jay had divided into three chips this time,
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cos he couldn't fit it all into one chip.
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00:11:01,732 --> 00:11:03,700
So there was a new version of the TIA,
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00:11:03,834 --> 00:11:05,903
which we called the Colleen TIA.
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00:11:06,036 --> 00:11:08,438
It handled sprites, missiles, balls.
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00:11:08,539 --> 00:11:11,008
The ANTIC was the stuff that overflowed,
137
00:11:11,108 --> 00:11:12,743
that did more of the playfield graphics.
138
00:11:13,343 --> 00:11:16,847
And the ANTIC had something that
we invented called the display list.
139
00:11:16,947 --> 00:11:18,849
So you give it a list of instructions,
140
00:11:18,949 --> 00:11:22,019
very simple ones,
telling it what to do on each line,
141
00:11:22,119 --> 00:11:25,455
so we didn't have to write kernels
to load the register.
142
00:11:25,556 --> 00:11:29,259
So this display list would load
those registers for us every line.
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00:11:29,359 --> 00:11:31,728
And it controlled the line by itself.
144
00:11:31,862 --> 00:11:33,430
And the third chip was the POKEY chip,
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which stands for
"Potentiometers and Keyboard".
146
00:11:38,368 --> 00:11:40,938
So it did the joysticks, the pots,
147
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the keyboard, and the other peripherals.
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I think the most important thing
about those early chipsets
149
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were that they recognised that
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computers could be about
a lot more than just crunching numbers.
151
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That computers could be fun.
152
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Computers could be
engaging, exciting, creative.
153
00:12:01,959 --> 00:12:08,765
And that it required a degree
of technical ingenuity and creativity
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that people simply weren't putting
into computers at that point,
155
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certainly not into computing technology.
156
00:12:14,371 --> 00:12:16,373
I mean, you look at
something like the Apple II.
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It was a good computer,
it would run spreadsheets and so on,
158
00:12:19,977 --> 00:12:21,612
and even some primitive games.
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00:12:21,745 --> 00:12:24,147
But there was a lot missing.
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00:12:24,281 --> 00:12:28,752
And a lot of the stuff that was missing
was in the Atari 400 and 800 chipsets.
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00:12:41,598 --> 00:12:44,601
(Kaplan) At Atari,
Warner Communications bought them,
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00:12:44,735 --> 00:12:46,637
they installed Ray Kassar as president.
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00:12:46,770 --> 00:12:49,840
Best is yet to come, we have
terrific games coming out next year.
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00:12:49,973 --> 00:12:53,777
We have E.T. for example,
a wonderful love story cartridge.
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00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:55,746
I think there's great interest
in home computers,
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which Atari makes, and video games...
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They were essentially owned
by a entertainment media conglomerate,
168
00:13:02,019 --> 00:13:04,721
and Ray Kassar came from that culture.
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00:13:04,821 --> 00:13:06,523
Now you have to realise
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00:13:06,623 --> 00:13:10,327
that Nolan Bushnell
and Joe Keenan and Al Alcorn,
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00:13:10,427 --> 00:13:12,596
they were basically goof-offs.
172
00:13:12,729 --> 00:13:15,866
Not quite hippies,
but you'd call them relaxed, casual.
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They smoked dope.
174
00:13:17,367 --> 00:13:20,404
We went up to Nolan's suite
where we smoked a few joints.
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00:13:20,537 --> 00:13:22,606
And so that was the Atari that we knew.
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Ray comes in
with his, you know, $3,000 suits.
177
00:13:25,776 --> 00:13:29,046
He had a chauffeured limousine
that drove him up to the city.
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00:13:29,179 --> 00:13:33,950
Ray Kassar was not a technical guy,
he came from the fabric business.
179
00:13:34,051 --> 00:13:38,855
And he was a vice-president
at something called Burlington Industries,
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that makes towels and socks.
181
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He thought that you sold computers
to women in designer colours.
182
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He gave a lecture to us
in Atari Engineering
183
00:13:50,434 --> 00:13:54,705
in late January, early February of 1979.
184
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And he told us this.
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Most of the women who worked at Atari
in engineering left within a month.
186
00:14:01,411 --> 00:14:03,680
They really just did not understand
187
00:14:03,814 --> 00:14:06,650
how to treat developers
and how to do engineering.
188
00:14:06,783 --> 00:14:10,053
He said, "I've worked
with towel designers at Burlington."
189
00:14:10,187 --> 00:14:13,590
And they make those designs on
the towels, the fancy patterns and stuff.
190
00:14:13,690 --> 00:14:16,693
And he said,
"They consider themselves artists.
191
00:14:16,827 --> 00:14:20,630
"They think it's their art on the towel
that sells the towel."
192
00:14:20,731 --> 00:14:25,602
And he said, "I had to tell them,
'You guys are a dime a dozen.
193
00:14:25,702 --> 00:14:28,638
"'I could hire any idiot to design towels.
194
00:14:28,739 --> 00:14:30,707
"'And I wouldn't have
to pay them anything."'
195
00:14:30,841 --> 00:14:33,744
And so he basically said
we were a dime a dozen,
196
00:14:33,877 --> 00:14:37,347
he didn't need to pay us anything cos
he could hire anybody to do what we do.
197
00:14:37,481 --> 00:14:39,015
It was just like towel design.
198
00:14:39,116 --> 00:14:42,519
And Jay Miner said,
"I don't like where this is going."
199
00:14:42,652 --> 00:14:45,956
Jay Miner wanted to continue the work
he'd done on the Atari 800.
200
00:14:46,089 --> 00:14:49,693
It was clear they weren't gonna be able
to make any new technology at Atari,
201
00:14:49,826 --> 00:14:55,866
so he just left, and actually went to work
for a company making pacemaker chips.
202
00:14:55,966 --> 00:14:58,702
Zymos was a chip company,
they made chips.
203
00:14:58,835 --> 00:15:01,238
In those days, you do RAM chips,
204
00:15:01,338 --> 00:15:05,075
you do peripheral chips,
any kind of chip that the company can do.
205
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,949
While I was at Activision,
after I finished Kaboom!,
206
00:15:13,083 --> 00:15:15,519
I really wanted to do
a new game system.
207
00:15:15,652 --> 00:15:18,755
Atari still had not come out with the 5200,
208
00:15:18,889 --> 00:15:21,892
they were still selling 400s and 800s.
209
00:15:21,992 --> 00:15:26,663
And Doug Neubauer had called me up
one day, and we were talking about it.
210
00:15:26,763 --> 00:15:30,200
I said, "Look, I wanna leave Activision,
I really wanna do a new game system."
211
00:15:30,333 --> 00:15:33,470
We both knew Jay Miner,
we talked about it.
212
00:15:33,570 --> 00:15:35,772
And he said, sure he'd like to do it.
213
00:15:35,906 --> 00:15:39,209
Bert Braddock, the president of Zymos,
he liked the idea.
214
00:15:39,342 --> 00:15:42,212
So we put together, like,
a little business plan,
215
00:15:42,345 --> 00:15:44,714
and he presented it to his investor,
216
00:15:44,815 --> 00:15:47,684
who was a man named O.W. Rollins.
217
00:15:47,784 --> 00:15:50,287
He had put a lot of money into Zymos,
218
00:15:50,387 --> 00:15:52,722
so Rollins said he'll invest money.
219
00:15:53,156 --> 00:15:55,692
It was just purely a game machine
with joysticks
220
00:15:55,792 --> 00:15:58,428
and a simple console, nothing else.
221
00:15:58,562 --> 00:16:00,931
I guess, at the time,
with Atari doing so well
222
00:16:01,031 --> 00:16:03,166
and everybody was talking about games,
223
00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:05,335
they really wanted to invest
in a game console.
224
00:16:05,435 --> 00:16:08,138
It looked like it was gonna do
very well for them at that time.
225
00:16:08,238 --> 00:16:10,207
June of 1982,
226
00:16:10,340 --> 00:16:15,045
Rollins hired an executive search team
to find a president.
227
00:16:15,178 --> 00:16:19,015
And they found Dave Morse,
Tonka Toys in Minnesota.
228
00:16:19,149 --> 00:16:22,419
And so Dave and I worked on
the business plan over the summer,
229
00:16:22,552 --> 00:16:24,855
and they basically approved it
in September.
230
00:16:24,988 --> 00:16:26,389
So in October of '82,
231
00:16:26,523 --> 00:16:32,262
Rollins agreed to spend $3 million
to fund, at that time, Hi-Toro.
232
00:16:32,395 --> 00:16:34,631
This is, of course, the season to be jolly,
233
00:16:34,764 --> 00:16:36,933
but the folks at Mattel
and Warner Communications
234
00:16:37,033 --> 00:16:38,335
and a lot of other companies
235
00:16:38,435 --> 00:16:40,737
are having trouble
getting into the holiday spirit.
236
00:16:40,837 --> 00:16:43,974
Sales down dramatically
for home video game cartridges
237
00:16:44,074 --> 00:16:45,842
and investors are bailing out.
238
00:16:45,976 --> 00:16:47,344
Scott Barrett reports.
239
00:16:47,944 --> 00:16:50,780
(Barrett) 'Warner Communications
down one and a quarter points today,
240
00:16:50,881 --> 00:16:52,782
'16 and three quarter points yesterday.
241
00:16:52,883 --> 00:16:55,619
'Mattel down
seven and a quarter points today.
242
00:16:55,752 --> 00:16:59,089
'Both companies have one important
Christmas season product in common:
243
00:16:59,789 --> 00:17:01,558
'home video game cartridges...'
244
00:17:01,658 --> 00:17:05,695
What happened with Atari was that
they got really big really quickly,
245
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:10,233
and then they forgot that technology was
gonna keep going, it was gonna get better.
246
00:17:10,367 --> 00:17:15,872
They started to think of their Atari
video computer system, the 2600,
247
00:17:16,006 --> 00:17:17,574
kind of like a television,
248
00:17:17,674 --> 00:17:20,510
thinking there's gonna be one of these
in every home, it's like an appliance.
249
00:17:21,077 --> 00:17:25,282
And Atari, nevertheless, felt like they could
ride that horse for years and years.
250
00:17:25,415 --> 00:17:28,451
Naturally, it was going to hit a wall
very, very quickly,
251
00:17:28,585 --> 00:17:32,055
and they overbuilt the company
around that assumption.
252
00:17:32,188 --> 00:17:35,692
And they didn't really plan that
effectively for a next generation.
253
00:17:35,825 --> 00:17:39,462
And so it went up really fast, and then it
turned around and it came down really fast.
254
00:17:39,596 --> 00:17:43,500
Just like the laws of physics,
what goes up must come down.
255
00:17:43,633 --> 00:17:48,538
And then they made a great big implosion
when they crashed,
256
00:17:48,672 --> 00:17:51,708
and they kind of sucked the entire industry
down with them for a while.
257
00:17:51,841 --> 00:17:56,079
All the game companies were losing money.
Mattel, 20th Century Fox, Hasbro.
258
00:17:56,212 --> 00:17:59,616
All of those others companies,
Imagic, they all went broke.
259
00:17:59,716 --> 00:18:02,452
And retailers and distributors
refused to carry anything.
260
00:18:02,552 --> 00:18:05,355
We were telling our sales people
at Electronic Arts
261
00:18:05,488 --> 00:18:08,358
to go find all the guys
who are carrying Atari.
262
00:18:08,491 --> 00:18:11,728
They came back and said, "They're all gone.
They all went out of business or shut down.
263
00:18:11,861 --> 00:18:14,230
"They don't want to do anything
with any more video games."
264
00:18:14,331 --> 00:18:18,835
It was very difficult in the early '80s
trying to rebuild all of that distribution.
265
00:18:18,935 --> 00:18:23,707
Nobody, no single American
toy store, distributor,
266
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:25,976
nobody wanted to hear
the word "video game."
267
00:18:26,109 --> 00:18:29,245
They'd all lost their shirt,
and they would never touch them again.
268
00:18:29,346 --> 00:18:31,081
There is one encouraging note
for the industry,
269
00:18:31,181 --> 00:18:33,149
while software sales may be slumping,
270
00:18:33,283 --> 00:18:35,552
and of course "software" is
a computer buff term
271
00:18:36,052 --> 00:18:39,089
for that video cartridge
that contains the game program,
272
00:18:39,189 --> 00:18:41,358
hardware sales are still soaring.
273
00:18:41,491 --> 00:18:44,461
Most hardware can double
as a personal computer,
274
00:18:44,561 --> 00:18:47,497
leading most optimistic
industry experts to conclude
275
00:18:47,597 --> 00:18:50,300
that video game players
may be tired of playing
276
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,603
and are now getting down
to the serious business of computing.
277
00:18:53,737 --> 00:18:57,707
And so, the only market available
at that time really was the computer.
278
00:18:57,807 --> 00:19:01,611
If you started in 1983
with an idea for a new company,
279
00:19:01,745 --> 00:19:03,179
you could not do a video game.
280
00:19:03,313 --> 00:19:05,882
There was just absolutely no possibility,
281
00:19:05,982 --> 00:19:09,085
because there wasn't a distributor
or retailer that would talk to you.
282
00:19:09,185 --> 00:19:12,589
And the Consumer Electronic Shows,
they disappeared.
283
00:19:12,722 --> 00:19:15,091
If you went to the show
in, say, June of '83,
284
00:19:15,191 --> 00:19:17,761
there were almost no video games
there at all.
285
00:19:17,894 --> 00:19:22,132
Jay Miner had already begun a project
286
00:19:22,232 --> 00:19:25,835
to design a low-cost super computer
287
00:19:25,969 --> 00:19:28,638
based on the Motorola 68000 chip,
288
00:19:28,772 --> 00:19:33,510
which at that time, was only being used
in high-end workstations.
289
00:19:33,610 --> 00:19:35,378
Dave learned about it,
290
00:19:35,512 --> 00:19:41,117
and the two of them decided
to go back to the original backer
291
00:19:41,217 --> 00:19:46,389
and propose that they make
a few changes to the strategy,
292
00:19:46,523 --> 00:19:50,560
but basically fund
the continuation of this project.
293
00:19:51,027 --> 00:19:56,666
The changes were not only to target
the low-end business market,
294
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,868
which is what Jay had in mind,
295
00:19:59,002 --> 00:20:02,772
but also to target
the home computer market,
296
00:20:02,872 --> 00:20:06,042
including the ability
to do dazzling video games.
297
00:20:06,943 --> 00:20:09,679
So that was the element that Dave added.
298
00:20:09,813 --> 00:20:13,383
Dave Morse was what I consider
to be a marketing genius,
299
00:20:14,617 --> 00:20:19,022
well under-considered in terms of, I think,
an awful lot of people.
300
00:20:19,155 --> 00:20:20,557
Very creative.
301
00:20:20,657 --> 00:20:26,863
And his directive to us was he wanted
to be able to animate cartoons in real time.
302
00:20:26,996 --> 00:20:30,266
So we again listed,
"What do we need for a game?
303
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:31,801
"What do we need for productivity?
304
00:20:31,901 --> 00:20:34,270
"Let's make sure we can cover
both of them in the same set."
305
00:20:34,404 --> 00:20:39,976
At that point, the only real game in town
in the low-end business market
306
00:20:40,076 --> 00:20:43,780
and also high-end home market
was the Apple IIe.
307
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,716
They had owned that market
for a long, long time,
308
00:20:46,850 --> 00:20:50,320
and Dave felt it wasn't
a terribly exciting computer.
309
00:20:50,453 --> 00:20:52,322
There was also
all the Commodore computers.
310
00:20:52,455 --> 00:20:53,857
And Commodore was very big
at the time.
311
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:57,460
They had sold millions and millions
of these small home computers.
312
00:21:08,605 --> 00:21:10,306
'Ghostbusters!'
313
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,476
So the idea of taking that idea
and really extending it
314
00:21:13,610 --> 00:21:17,747
and giving those a lot more
graphic capability, a lot more power,
315
00:21:17,881 --> 00:21:20,717
you know, the multitasking
as well as really good sound,
316
00:21:20,850 --> 00:21:24,487
it was just the next step in the evolution
of personal computing.
317
00:21:24,921 --> 00:21:31,427
(Decuir) I have a notebook from Atari
which has a preview of the Amiga.
318
00:21:31,528 --> 00:21:35,465
I wrote that preview in June of 1979.
319
00:21:35,565 --> 00:21:39,969
And so when Jay called me up
in the fall of 1982 and said,
320
00:21:40,069 --> 00:21:43,473
"Let's come up with a new machine"'
I was ready to go.
321
00:21:43,573 --> 00:21:48,478
So I went and met Jay in October of 1982
and we started planning out this system.
322
00:21:48,945 --> 00:21:51,948
So I worked as a consultant
for Jay Miner.
323
00:21:52,081 --> 00:21:54,851
I was badge number three
at what was then called Hi-Toro.
324
00:21:54,951 --> 00:21:59,756
While I was working with Jay
finishing up the clock chip at Apple,
325
00:21:59,889 --> 00:22:02,458
and of course we'd go out for lunch
every now and then,
326
00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:05,595
I was in the Macintosh lab.
327
00:22:05,728 --> 00:22:08,798
And my lab bench was
very near Dan Kottke's,
328
00:22:08,932 --> 00:22:11,868
another early engineer
on the Macintosh project,
329
00:22:11,968 --> 00:22:16,539
and he was adding a test connector
to the Mac motherboard.
330
00:22:16,673 --> 00:22:20,743
And Steve Jobs comes over
and says, "What's that?"
331
00:22:20,877 --> 00:22:23,146
There are various stories
about Steve Jobs
332
00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:25,415
walking up to an engineer and going,
"What are you doing?"
333
00:22:25,548 --> 00:22:28,718
And Dan Kottke says,
"I'm putting in a test connector."
334
00:22:28,818 --> 00:22:31,554
And Steve goes, "What test connector?
What do you want to test?" And he says,
335
00:22:31,688 --> 00:22:36,359
"Well, various things, like an option,
for instance, for a colour adaptor."
336
00:22:36,492 --> 00:22:38,127
And then Steve goes on this rant
337
00:22:38,228 --> 00:22:42,632
about how the Mac is a black-and-white
high-resolution monochrome computer,
338
00:22:42,765 --> 00:22:45,335
"It'll never have colour,
I don't want you playing with colour.
339
00:22:45,435 --> 00:22:47,570
"Please remove that test connector."
340
00:22:47,704 --> 00:22:50,974
Right? And Steve rants about this
and goes tromping off.
341
00:22:51,107 --> 00:22:55,311
So I'm saying, "OK, Steve doesn't
want to do a colour Macintosh."
342
00:22:55,411 --> 00:22:58,982
At the next lunch I went to with Jay,
Jay says,
343
00:22:59,115 --> 00:23:04,654
"I've got some investors who want to start
a company to do a colour game machine."
344
00:23:04,787 --> 00:23:08,224
And I'm going, "Hey, I've always
been interested in colour,
345
00:23:08,358 --> 00:23:10,059
"and Steve says he's not interested in it."
346
00:23:10,193 --> 00:23:15,265
And so, I jumped at the opportunity
to do something new and creative.
347
00:23:15,431 --> 00:23:20,370
I worked in the early stages, so I worked
with Jay and Ron and very few other people.
348
00:23:21,004 --> 00:23:23,773
And we spent an awful lot of our time
on the whiteboard...
349
00:23:23,873 --> 00:23:26,342
Saying, "No, no. That's all wrong"'
and erasing it all.
350
00:23:26,442 --> 00:23:29,445
We went through several weeks there
351
00:23:29,579 --> 00:23:33,182
of just throwing ideas around
of what we wanted to do.
352
00:23:33,283 --> 00:23:37,754
And then we'd go to the giant drawing table
and start drawing all this stuff,
353
00:23:37,854 --> 00:23:41,090
because we didn't have good
computer-aided design tools yet.
354
00:23:41,224 --> 00:23:45,094
We were still designing on vellums
355
00:23:45,228 --> 00:23:48,665
and we'd get these big tables
with fluorescent lights under them
356
00:23:48,798 --> 00:23:50,767
and do it manually by hand.
357
00:23:50,867 --> 00:23:55,305
It was just the three of us
for several months
358
00:23:55,872 --> 00:24:02,211
until we had all the design,
except for maybe three features, finalised.
359
00:24:02,312 --> 00:24:05,481
At that time
Amiga was looking to expand.
360
00:24:05,615 --> 00:24:08,117
I go down there,
I get out at the Sunnyvale train station,
361
00:24:08,251 --> 00:24:10,386
there's this big old guy with a beard,
362
00:24:10,486 --> 00:24:13,289
in a Lincoln,
and this little dog sitting at one window.
363
00:24:15,591 --> 00:24:17,794
And I thought,
"This is an interesting guy."
364
00:24:17,894 --> 00:24:20,863
And then I guessed correctly
365
00:24:20,997 --> 00:24:23,800
when he asked me the difference
between a flip-flop and a latch.
366
00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:26,903
And we hit it off.
So I said, "I gotta work for this guy."
367
00:24:27,036 --> 00:24:32,642
They invited me to come out and interview
and I blew off their invitation twice.
368
00:24:32,742 --> 00:24:34,410
Two times!
369
00:24:34,510 --> 00:24:36,512
I said, "OK, I'll think about it."
370
00:24:36,646 --> 00:24:40,283
And then I decided I wasn't gonna do it
because it was just too wacky.
371
00:24:40,416 --> 00:24:43,052
It's a bunch of people out in California,
372
00:24:43,152 --> 00:24:45,455
they're going to go and create
a new computer,
373
00:24:45,555 --> 00:24:47,423
and, sure, this is a great idea.
374
00:24:47,523 --> 00:24:51,694
And my family, especially my mom,
were warning me, "Out in California..."
375
00:24:51,828 --> 00:24:56,766
"California is the land of fruit and nuts"'
is what they all used to say to me back then.
376
00:24:56,899 --> 00:24:59,035
And though I blew them off twice,
they kept calling.
377
00:24:59,135 --> 00:25:01,904
Thankfully, they called the third time.
And the third time, I accepted and went out.
378
00:25:02,038 --> 00:25:04,340
I actually missed my first interview.
379
00:25:04,474 --> 00:25:09,178
What I'd heard about it was that there
was a small start-up company and so...
380
00:25:09,312 --> 00:25:11,647
Scheduled an interview,
and it was on a Friday night.
381
00:25:11,748 --> 00:25:16,352
And HP typically has these things called
beer busts, at that time, on Friday night.
382
00:25:16,486 --> 00:25:19,889
And about 8:30,
after quite a bit of wine at the beer bust,
383
00:25:19,989 --> 00:25:21,691
I suddenly remembered
I was supposed to go
384
00:25:21,791 --> 00:25:24,894
to an interview at Amiga
with Bob Pariseau.
385
00:25:24,994 --> 00:25:27,997
And so I called him up in a panic,
386
00:25:28,131 --> 00:25:31,100
and he said, "No, no problem.
Just come in next week."
387
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,368
And so I went in,
388
00:25:32,502 --> 00:25:36,773
they had the whiteboard with the 68000
as one of the key elements,
389
00:25:36,906 --> 00:25:40,343
and then they showed the chips
and the basic architecture
390
00:25:40,476 --> 00:25:42,545
and fairly quickly I made up my mind
391
00:25:42,678 --> 00:25:45,748
that I wanted to leave HP
and join this company.
392
00:25:45,882 --> 00:25:51,220
My wife got a call from a head-hunter
and then from Bob Pariseau,
393
00:25:51,354 --> 00:25:54,390
who was the head of software at Amiga.
394
00:25:55,024 --> 00:25:58,995
And it's funny because she felt
he was very rude on the telephone,
395
00:25:59,128 --> 00:26:01,831
and said, "Don't call this guy back.
396
00:26:01,964 --> 00:26:04,700
"You don't want to talk to this...
I don't want you working for..."
397
00:26:04,801 --> 00:26:07,737
"For this guy and his company."
398
00:26:08,504 --> 00:26:11,007
But I had a friend
who had interviewed there
399
00:26:11,140 --> 00:26:14,844
for the operating system job,
and he decided it wasn't for him.
400
00:26:14,977 --> 00:26:17,847
But he called me up and he said,
"You really should go talk to these guys
401
00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:21,517
"because they want to create
a whole new computer system,
402
00:26:21,617 --> 00:26:23,920
"and they want to do
a whole operating system from scratch,
403
00:26:24,020 --> 00:26:26,389
"and I was thinking maybe
you'd be interested in that."
404
00:26:26,956 --> 00:26:29,926
So I went down to the interview
and interviewed with Bob Pariseau
405
00:26:30,026 --> 00:26:32,862
and met some of the other guys there,
Dave Morse.
406
00:26:32,995 --> 00:26:36,799
And then they made me
an offer the same day,
407
00:26:36,933 --> 00:26:38,367
and I couldn't refuse, I accepted it.
408
00:26:38,468 --> 00:26:44,540
I was talking to, what was at that time,
"a talent agent" for technology people.
409
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,944
And he introduced me
to this company Amiga
410
00:26:48,044 --> 00:26:51,013
that was doing something interesting.
411
00:26:51,147 --> 00:26:54,450
I went down, I took a look,
I saw the whiteboard.
412
00:26:54,584 --> 00:26:58,421
I just knew, without question,
that this is what I wanted to work on.
413
00:26:58,554 --> 00:27:00,623
Of course, I completely screwed up
the interview.
414
00:27:00,756 --> 00:27:03,826
And Morse threw me out and said,
"Go away, don't bother me, little boy."
415
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,297
But I was being massively,
totally arrogant. It was awful.
416
00:27:08,431 --> 00:27:10,166
The next morning, I called back.
417
00:27:10,266 --> 00:27:14,170
And I apologised and I tell Dave Morse
how sorry I am that I behaved that way,
418
00:27:14,270 --> 00:27:17,173
and I really, really want
to just work on that machine.
419
00:27:17,273 --> 00:27:18,841
And he says, "OK, fine. Come in."
420
00:27:18,975 --> 00:27:22,178
And I came in
and he handed me off to Tom Cahill
421
00:27:22,278 --> 00:27:24,313
who was running the lab at the time.
422
00:27:24,447 --> 00:27:28,417
And they put me to work
sweeping the place clean,
423
00:27:28,518 --> 00:27:32,021
picking up parts, putting them back
in the bins where they belong.
424
00:27:32,121 --> 00:27:35,191
And so I started at Amiga as a janitor.
425
00:27:35,291 --> 00:27:38,194
And loved it, and had to be there
and it was amazing.
426
00:27:47,670 --> 00:27:49,705
(Sassenrath) One of the things
I saw during my interview at Amiga
427
00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:51,307
was a little whiteboard.
428
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,011
I think a lot of the guys talk about this
that were on the original Amiga team.
429
00:27:55,111 --> 00:27:57,880
And it was a whiteboard that had
a diagram of how the system worked
430
00:27:58,014 --> 00:28:00,082
in terms of its system architecture.
431
00:28:00,216 --> 00:28:04,554
And it was really quite elegant and it was
also a multiprocessing architecture,
432
00:28:04,687 --> 00:28:07,256
where multiple things can be
happening at the same time.
433
00:28:07,356 --> 00:28:08,958
And as soon as I looked at that, I knew
434
00:28:09,091 --> 00:28:12,061
that multitasking was going to be
required to make that work well.
435
00:28:12,161 --> 00:28:16,032
To be able to coordinate all the different
parts of the system at the same time.
436
00:28:16,766 --> 00:28:20,703
The magical, incredible drawing
on that whiteboard
437
00:28:20,836 --> 00:28:23,940
that showed an amazing architecture.
438
00:28:24,073 --> 00:28:25,908
Multiple buses,
439
00:28:26,042 --> 00:28:29,845
ways to get the graphics
out of regular memory and on to video
440
00:28:29,946 --> 00:28:32,448
without stopping the processor.
441
00:28:32,548 --> 00:28:35,051
Real audio? Holy cow!
442
00:28:35,151 --> 00:28:37,086
It had additional features
443
00:28:37,186 --> 00:28:40,122
that were already plotted out
on this whiteboard
444
00:28:40,256 --> 00:28:44,727
that made it clear, in advance,
that Jay Miner and company intended
445
00:28:44,860 --> 00:28:47,997
to create a real computer
not just a game system.
446
00:28:48,130 --> 00:28:50,566
But they intended to create
something that could have a keyboard
447
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:52,401
if you wanted it to have a keyboard.
448
00:28:52,868 --> 00:28:57,340
It could have external drive capability
if you wanted to expand it.
449
00:28:57,473 --> 00:29:00,509
Memory expansion
if you wanted to expand the system.
450
00:29:00,610 --> 00:29:05,181
So, the process of creating the Amiga
was one
451
00:29:05,314 --> 00:29:06,816
where we went back and forth
452
00:29:06,949 --> 00:29:09,986
between how much do we want
to make it a game machine,
453
00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:13,489
how much do we want to make it
a tool or a utility like a real computer,
454
00:29:13,589 --> 00:29:16,158
or like a IBM-PC type of thing.
455
00:29:16,592 --> 00:29:18,327
And we tried to balance that
456
00:29:18,427 --> 00:29:20,630
through the whole process
of making the computer.
457
00:29:20,763 --> 00:29:23,799
And it was a difficult balance
to make along the way.
458
00:29:23,933 --> 00:29:27,370
Because those are such different markets
and such different types of usages.
459
00:29:27,970 --> 00:29:32,241
We relied on a lot of the concepts
that had already been developed.
460
00:29:32,375 --> 00:29:36,512
Grand UNIX systems,
grand Sun Microsystems sorts of things,
461
00:29:36,612 --> 00:29:40,783
where they had tackled
giant operating systems
462
00:29:40,916 --> 00:29:42,818
and figured out the right way to do it.
463
00:29:43,252 --> 00:29:47,523
We wanted to do that, too.
We wanted to create that kind of power.
464
00:29:47,623 --> 00:29:50,626
But to pack it in a little box
that was easily accessible,
465
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,330
that was easily affordable by every man.
466
00:29:54,430 --> 00:29:59,235
We wanted to have a machine that
was a magnificent game-playing system
467
00:29:59,368 --> 00:30:03,873
that would run circles around
any other game system that was out there,
468
00:30:04,006 --> 00:30:05,808
and yet cost less than all of them.
469
00:30:06,342 --> 00:30:10,279
We wanted a machine
that had the graphics capabilities
470
00:30:10,413 --> 00:30:13,582
that if you look at what was available
in the marketplace at that time,
471
00:30:13,683 --> 00:30:15,451
a Silicon Graphics machine
or something like that,
472
00:30:15,584 --> 00:30:17,987
you'd pay $20,000-$30,000
473
00:30:18,087 --> 00:30:21,090
for a machine that would have
the kinds of capabilities
474
00:30:21,223 --> 00:30:25,628
that we hoped to be able to launch
to the public at less than $1,000 price.
475
00:30:25,761 --> 00:30:27,430
That was our big dream.
476
00:30:27,563 --> 00:30:32,001
We were all in this together,
we all had kind of the same vision.
477
00:30:32,101 --> 00:30:35,037
It really was more like a mission from God,
478
00:30:35,171 --> 00:30:37,773
that we thought
we needed to bring this out
479
00:30:37,873 --> 00:30:40,609
for everyone to be able
to experience and use.
480
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:42,978
And it had a friendly name, Amiga,
that...
481
00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:45,781
Who could not love such a name?
482
00:30:45,881 --> 00:30:49,852
When I joined Amiga
and saw the diagram on the wall
483
00:30:49,985 --> 00:30:53,422
of the chip architecture
and the system architecture,
484
00:30:54,523 --> 00:30:57,393
one of the things about it is,
to implement that normally,
485
00:30:57,493 --> 00:31:00,429
it would require a lot
of different small chips.
486
00:31:00,529 --> 00:31:02,331
And it would be a very complex system,
487
00:31:02,465 --> 00:31:05,201
and take a lot of power and be very large.
488
00:31:05,801 --> 00:31:09,271
But what was happening at that time
in chip technology
489
00:31:09,405 --> 00:31:11,874
was very large-scale integration, VLSI.
490
00:31:12,007 --> 00:31:14,076
And making custom chips,
491
00:31:14,210 --> 00:31:19,014
and that's something that Jay Miner
had a lot of experience with at Atari
492
00:31:19,115 --> 00:31:20,750
in creating the Atari products.
493
00:31:20,883 --> 00:31:25,254
So, seeing that architecture and knowing
that those chips were really a possibility,
494
00:31:25,354 --> 00:31:27,556
and that they could be made
at an affordable type of price
495
00:31:27,690 --> 00:31:29,492
that would work in a home computer
496
00:31:29,625 --> 00:31:31,527
was a huge breakthrough.
497
00:31:31,660 --> 00:31:35,631
The chips, Portia, Agnus and Daphne,
498
00:31:35,731 --> 00:31:37,366
which were their original names,
499
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:39,735
Agnus was the main DMA engine.
500
00:31:39,869 --> 00:31:43,239
It was an address generator, AG,
so that's where we got Agnus.
501
00:31:43,339 --> 00:31:47,076
And it was really the DMA engine
for everything.
502
00:31:47,743 --> 00:31:50,713
Daphne was fed by Agnus,
503
00:31:50,846 --> 00:31:55,918
and was given all the display stuff to
generate the displays, generate the sprites,
504
00:31:56,051 --> 00:31:58,788
and do some of my stuff.
505
00:31:59,355 --> 00:32:04,326
Portia, the port chip and the audio chip,
was also fed by Agnus.
506
00:32:04,460 --> 00:32:07,897
So Agnus had all these huge amounts
of DMA pointers in it.
507
00:32:07,997 --> 00:32:11,066
And it basically pulled stuff out of memory
508
00:32:11,167 --> 00:32:13,903
and put stuff in memory
and then fed the other two chips
509
00:32:14,003 --> 00:32:18,908
to do other things like the audio,
the floppy disk IO, the display,
510
00:32:19,008 --> 00:32:22,144
and then Agnus also did, internally though,
it did the blitter operation.
511
00:32:22,278 --> 00:32:23,479
So it did the graphics.
512
00:32:23,579 --> 00:32:26,949
And based on that and
how well that was tightly integrated
513
00:32:27,082 --> 00:32:32,121
with the 68000 and Agnus basically
stealing cycles from the 68000...
514
00:32:32,221 --> 00:32:36,358
Cos the 68000 could only use memory
at half the speed of the RAM,
515
00:32:36,492 --> 00:32:38,627
we were able to do all these things
in the background
516
00:32:38,761 --> 00:32:41,730
without really affecting
the 68000's performance.
517
00:32:41,831 --> 00:32:45,734
The way those chips worked is
they all got their little moment in time
518
00:32:45,835 --> 00:32:48,571
to get on the memory bus
to talk to the main CPU
519
00:32:48,704 --> 00:32:51,440
or to talk to each other on that bus.
520
00:32:51,574 --> 00:32:56,045
And there were actually
25 different slices of time in that.
521
00:32:56,178 --> 00:32:58,147
We called it 25 DMA channels.
522
00:32:58,247 --> 00:33:02,184
So organising and orchestrating all of that
was a major accomplishment.
523
00:33:02,318 --> 00:33:05,321
(Luck) You had audio bits being DMA-ed,
524
00:33:05,421 --> 00:33:07,623
and you had video bits being DMA-ed,
525
00:33:07,756 --> 00:33:10,759
and you the blitter
moving graphics around,
526
00:33:10,860 --> 00:33:14,063
you had the floppy disk
DMA stuff going on.
527
00:33:14,196 --> 00:33:18,000
In order to effectively get
all those things moving around properly,
528
00:33:18,133 --> 00:33:21,136
all at the same time, you have
to have pre-emptive multitasking.
529
00:33:21,237 --> 00:33:25,007
Because you can't be polling stuff
to wait for something to do.
530
00:33:25,140 --> 00:33:26,809
You have to be event-driven,
531
00:33:26,942 --> 00:33:29,278
so that when things need to be restarted
532
00:33:29,411 --> 00:33:32,448
or things are done
and you need to start something else up,
533
00:33:32,581 --> 00:33:34,149
it all has to be pre-emptive.
534
00:33:34,250 --> 00:33:35,751
Yeah, so back then,
535
00:33:35,851 --> 00:33:39,755
most computers, micro-computers,
were single-tasking computers.
536
00:33:39,855 --> 00:33:42,191
You ran one application at a time.
537
00:33:42,291 --> 00:33:44,860
You did what you wanted,
you shut down that application,
538
00:33:44,994 --> 00:33:46,462
and then you ran something else.
539
00:33:46,595 --> 00:33:48,831
So you could only run
one program at a time.
540
00:33:48,964 --> 00:33:50,833
The idea of a multi-tasking
operating system
541
00:33:50,966 --> 00:33:55,104
is to allow several different processes
to run in parallel at the same time,
542
00:33:55,237 --> 00:33:58,374
and to share the CPU
between the different processes,
543
00:33:58,474 --> 00:34:00,209
and to do that fast enough
544
00:34:00,309 --> 00:34:02,311
that you don't notice
that it's switching between them.
545
00:34:02,444 --> 00:34:07,516
The 68000 chip only had
a few of the features needed
546
00:34:07,650 --> 00:34:13,255
to properly do what a full multi-tasking
operating system does nowadays.
547
00:34:13,389 --> 00:34:17,126
And so we were only thinking
of doing the best we could
548
00:34:17,259 --> 00:34:21,630
to let the software team take it beyond
what the basic, simple hardware could do.
549
00:34:21,730 --> 00:34:25,000
Yeah, multi-tasking was
more difficult to implement
550
00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:26,635
on a machine like the Amiga.
551
00:34:26,735 --> 00:34:29,738
That was the early days
of microprocessors.
552
00:34:29,872 --> 00:34:35,644
And they didn't have the concept
of protecting different process spaces.
553
00:34:35,744 --> 00:34:40,349
So it was easy for one process to overrun
the memory into another process.
554
00:34:40,482 --> 00:34:43,218
So, the design of the multi-tasking
had to be very careful
555
00:34:43,319 --> 00:34:46,455
to try to avoid those types of situations
from happening.
556
00:34:46,555 --> 00:34:50,159
Well, when I came into the project,
I started in August of '83,
557
00:34:50,292 --> 00:34:54,463
there was no hardware, there wasn't
even a board with a 68000 on it.
558
00:34:54,563 --> 00:34:58,267
There was just...
We had an Atari 800 that we could use
559
00:34:58,367 --> 00:35:00,069
and we had a SAGE computer...
560
00:35:00,169 --> 00:35:03,706
That was a fancy multi-user computer,
561
00:35:03,839 --> 00:35:07,843
designed to handle
up to four users at the same time.
562
00:35:07,943 --> 00:35:11,113
And we had 10 users
jammed on that tiny little box,
563
00:35:11,246 --> 00:35:15,184
all hammering at that one CPU,
trying to get it to do our work.
564
00:35:15,317 --> 00:35:20,556
Right around October, I think,
we had our first 68000 prototype
565
00:35:20,689 --> 00:35:24,860
which was just a 68000
with some RAM on it and a serial port.
566
00:35:25,394 --> 00:35:29,898
There was no fancy hardware
at that time, but it did allow us to...
567
00:35:29,999 --> 00:35:34,403
It allowed Carl to bring up his pre-emptive
multi-tasking kernel.
568
00:35:34,536 --> 00:35:37,539
It allowed me to get graphics
basically running
569
00:35:37,673 --> 00:35:40,709
with a little emulator
for some of the graphics.
570
00:35:40,809 --> 00:35:45,481
The architecture of the system
let the different developers
571
00:35:45,581 --> 00:35:48,017
develop their components, their libraries,
572
00:35:48,150 --> 00:35:49,752
independent of each other,
573
00:35:49,885 --> 00:35:52,921
and actually load them
into the system independently,
574
00:35:53,022 --> 00:35:55,691
and allow them to test
without having to coordinate
575
00:35:55,791 --> 00:35:57,926
in a real serious way with everyone else.
576
00:35:58,027 --> 00:36:00,162
I don't believe we got real hardware,
577
00:36:00,295 --> 00:36:03,098
where they were plugging
the wire-wrapped bread boards in,
578
00:36:03,198 --> 00:36:06,568
until basically about a month before CES.
579
00:36:06,702 --> 00:36:10,606
We had one bread board
to represent the computer,
580
00:36:10,739 --> 00:36:15,577
the 68000, the memory,
and it had some connectors on it
581
00:36:15,711 --> 00:36:18,580
to represent the sockets
where the three custom chips would go.
582
00:36:18,714 --> 00:36:24,053
Three 40-pin sockets to plug the umbilical
cords that went from the chip stacks,
583
00:36:24,186 --> 00:36:30,826
which were between five and seven
sets of boards with high-speed CMOS
584
00:36:30,959 --> 00:36:34,163
that emulated the functions
of the hardware.
585
00:36:34,263 --> 00:36:37,633
And each one of those would plug into
a different 40-pin socket
586
00:36:37,766 --> 00:36:39,601
on what we called then
the Lorraine motherboard.
587
00:36:39,735 --> 00:36:43,138
But it was a very primitive way to mimic
588
00:36:43,238 --> 00:36:45,974
something that's going to be turned
into an integrated circuit.
589
00:36:46,075 --> 00:36:50,846
But there was no prototyping technology
at that time to quickly make a chip.
590
00:36:50,979 --> 00:36:56,051
You had to do this preliminary step
and work out all the details and the bugs.
591
00:36:56,185 --> 00:36:59,455
Then I finally was able to like...
Well, let me pull the emulator out,
592
00:36:59,588 --> 00:37:03,025
and plug in writing these registers
to the hardware
593
00:37:03,158 --> 00:37:04,660
and see if anything happened.
594
00:37:04,793 --> 00:37:07,896
And after three weeks to four weeks
of concentrated work,
595
00:37:08,030 --> 00:37:12,634
in the last week before CES,
we basically moved into the office.
596
00:37:12,768 --> 00:37:17,840
So it was quite an amazing time period
when we're all pushing each other
597
00:37:17,973 --> 00:37:19,608
to try to get more stuff done,
598
00:37:19,708 --> 00:37:22,611
and trying to help each other
to get that stuff done.
599
00:37:26,448 --> 00:37:30,452
(Sassenrath) The build-up to the CES
shows was actually insanity.
600
00:37:31,286 --> 00:37:34,723
It was not a nice smooth, kind of,
"OK, we're going to go to CES."
601
00:37:34,857 --> 00:37:39,428
It was like, "Oh, my God!
We've got to make this work for CES."
602
00:37:39,528 --> 00:37:42,297
As we came up to that CES show,
603
00:37:42,431 --> 00:37:46,335
I was already part
of the higher-level discussions
604
00:37:46,468 --> 00:37:48,203
that were taking place in the company.
605
00:37:50,072 --> 00:37:51,874
And so, unfortunately for me,
606
00:37:52,007 --> 00:37:54,910
I knew a lot more than other people
in the company knew,
607
00:37:55,043 --> 00:37:58,647
and I had a clear sense
of just how bad things were,
608
00:37:58,747 --> 00:38:01,049
how close we were to the edge financially.
609
00:38:01,150 --> 00:38:04,720
We were out of money.
And it was difficult to find money.
610
00:38:04,853 --> 00:38:07,289
Jay mortgaged his house.
611
00:38:07,422 --> 00:38:10,626
Dave sold at least one car.
He had some fancy, expensive cars.
612
00:38:10,726 --> 00:38:15,831
So, I was very aware
of the emptiness of the wallet.
613
00:38:15,931 --> 00:38:18,300
The CES show was kind
of a make-or-break thing.
614
00:38:18,433 --> 00:38:20,769
If we didn't make it to CES,
615
00:38:21,370 --> 00:38:23,071
it was gonna hurt.
616
00:38:23,172 --> 00:38:24,640
We had to show something.
617
00:38:24,740 --> 00:38:27,776
We had to show something to people
to impress them,
618
00:38:27,910 --> 00:38:32,981
to either get additional funding
or to figure out a way to sell the product.
619
00:38:33,115 --> 00:38:35,450
We knew things were bad,
620
00:38:35,551 --> 00:38:39,121
but it didn't matter.
621
00:38:39,721 --> 00:38:42,324
We were gonna do
what we were gonna do anyway.
622
00:38:42,457 --> 00:38:44,893
The machine was always breaking down,
there were always problems
623
00:38:44,993 --> 00:38:46,695
where something would go out
and all of a sudden
624
00:38:46,795 --> 00:38:48,897
the blitter would stop working,
and those types of things.
625
00:38:48,997 --> 00:38:51,266
So, it was difficult
because it was a very...
626
00:38:51,366 --> 00:38:54,203
These were these separate boards
that were very complicated,
627
00:38:54,336 --> 00:38:57,372
with lots of wires on them,
lots of things that could go wrong.
628
00:38:57,506 --> 00:39:02,344
The hardware guys are doing their best
to make sure this hardware stays working.
629
00:39:02,477 --> 00:39:04,780
Things would die, wires would break.
630
00:39:04,913 --> 00:39:08,116
It was a giant set of wire-wrapped boards,
it was fragile.
631
00:39:08,217 --> 00:39:10,152
We were very nervous about it.
632
00:39:10,285 --> 00:39:14,423
And in addition, we were trying to add
new features up to the last minute
633
00:39:14,556 --> 00:39:18,527
to make the CES demos
just blow everyone's socks off,
634
00:39:18,627 --> 00:39:21,897
we used to say, and that was kind
of the terminology we used.
635
00:39:21,997 --> 00:39:23,532
We blew everyone's socks off.
636
00:39:23,632 --> 00:39:26,702
But how to do that
always was up to the last minute.
637
00:39:26,802 --> 00:39:29,972
So many of us ended up staying nights,
638
00:39:30,105 --> 00:39:34,943
and working weekends to try to get
as much done as we could before the show.
639
00:39:35,444 --> 00:39:40,315
It was frightening. It was exhilarating.
640
00:39:40,916 --> 00:39:44,720
And then, a software guy comes in
641
00:39:44,820 --> 00:39:48,257
and wants me to make a major change
to the hardware,
642
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:50,626
a few weeks before CES,
643
00:39:50,759 --> 00:39:53,228
to put in a feature for the graphics.
644
00:39:53,362 --> 00:39:54,863
And I'm flabbergasted.
645
00:39:54,997 --> 00:39:57,966
It is just, "No way. Are you kidding?
646
00:39:58,066 --> 00:40:01,169
"We're not gonna make that kind of change.
We can't take that risk.
647
00:40:01,270 --> 00:40:03,438
"This is the whole company.
648
00:40:03,572 --> 00:40:07,843
"We mess this up and we have
no hardware, we are in big trouble."
649
00:40:07,976 --> 00:40:10,279
The hardware feature
that he wanted was line draw.
650
00:40:10,412 --> 00:40:14,249
Other more expensive graphics computers
already had kind of a hardware line draw,
651
00:40:14,383 --> 00:40:17,686
but this was the first time that a blitter
652
00:40:17,819 --> 00:40:20,689
was basically perverted
into being able to draw lines.
653
00:40:20,822 --> 00:40:24,593
It was a great idea,
but there was no time.
654
00:40:24,693 --> 00:40:26,495
And there was no schedule.
655
00:40:26,628 --> 00:40:29,865
And I wasn't going to allow it.
No way, no how.
656
00:40:29,998 --> 00:40:32,367
Bob Pariseau,
the guy in charge of software,
657
00:40:32,467 --> 00:40:36,171
is trying to convince me to do this,
because it's very important.
658
00:40:36,271 --> 00:40:38,507
And I absolutely will not do it.
659
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:43,378
He grabs my arm, and in a joking way,
starts twisting my arm.
660
00:40:43,478 --> 00:40:45,480
"I'm twisting your arm,
you're gonna do this."
661
00:40:46,014 --> 00:40:49,251
The dog, Mitchy, Jay's dog,
662
00:40:49,384 --> 00:40:52,254
leaps to my defence, and I can't help it.
663
00:40:52,387 --> 00:40:54,523
The dog jumped to my defence.
664
00:40:54,656 --> 00:40:55,924
Of course I'll put it in.
665
00:40:56,425 --> 00:40:59,294
And we took the risk,
and we took apart the wire wraps,
666
00:40:59,428 --> 00:41:03,098
and we made the changes,
and we made it to CES with line draw,
667
00:41:03,598 --> 00:41:07,536
one of the most astonishing things
to see in a machine of that time.
668
00:41:07,669 --> 00:41:08,737
Thank you, dog.
669
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:13,475
When it was finally time to pack up
the office and take everything to the show,
670
00:41:13,608 --> 00:41:17,212
some of us were still working
on our code, and they had to, like,
671
00:41:17,312 --> 00:41:20,615
have our computers plugged
into extension cords so we could
672
00:41:20,716 --> 00:41:23,652
walk out to the parking lot
with the computer and keep working
673
00:41:23,752 --> 00:41:26,521
right until they had to unplug it
and put it in the van.
674
00:41:26,655 --> 00:41:28,490
Because it was like that.
675
00:41:28,623 --> 00:41:30,492
The changes were happening
all the way up
676
00:41:30,959 --> 00:41:34,896
to when those boards were being taken
and put into aeroplane seats on aeroplanes
677
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:36,865
and flown down to Las Vegas.
678
00:41:36,965 --> 00:41:40,068
It was chaos. There was nothing
smooth about that whole process.
679
00:41:48,643 --> 00:41:52,748
Everyone's hopes and dreams
were pinned
680
00:41:52,881 --> 00:41:56,651
to that moment
when the CES show opened,
681
00:41:57,519 --> 00:42:00,255
and the first people
would start to see our baby,
682
00:42:00,355 --> 00:42:02,190
and what kind of response would it get.
683
00:42:02,324 --> 00:42:05,961
They had a booth there, all this Amiga
stuff that had been done before,
684
00:42:06,094 --> 00:42:09,464
like the Amiga joysticks, the Power Sticks,
some of the Amiga games
685
00:42:09,564 --> 00:42:13,935
that were actually designed to establish
the company as a real company.
686
00:42:14,069 --> 00:42:17,739
When the people finally got a chance
to see our baby,
687
00:42:17,873 --> 00:42:20,108
the response was overwhelming.
688
00:42:20,208 --> 00:42:22,210
It was astonishing.
689
00:42:22,344 --> 00:42:24,579
Every party that came in there,
690
00:42:24,713 --> 00:42:28,383
every major corporation
that got a chance to see the device,
691
00:42:28,517 --> 00:42:33,121
they were astonished at the magnificence
of the thing they had just seen.
692
00:42:33,221 --> 00:42:37,225
That was the great endorsement
that we were on the right track.
693
00:42:37,359 --> 00:42:39,895
We were knocking people's socks off
with this thing.
694
00:42:39,995 --> 00:42:46,101
And that night, then, the Amiga
executives said to the rest of staff
695
00:42:46,201 --> 00:42:47,836
they were so pleased with everything.
696
00:42:47,969 --> 00:42:51,339
They took us out to dinner.
We had this awesome Italian dinner.
697
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:52,741
Drank a lot of Chianti.
698
00:42:53,442 --> 00:42:56,812
And all through the meal,
Dale and RJ are over here at the side,
699
00:42:56,945 --> 00:42:59,848
and they're conversing between themselves
and they're laughing,
700
00:42:59,981 --> 00:43:02,784
and they're having the best possible time.
701
00:43:02,918 --> 00:43:05,921
And so we get done and he's saying,
"OK, we're gonna take the van,
702
00:43:06,021 --> 00:43:07,522
"and we're gonna go back
over to the show."
703
00:43:07,622 --> 00:43:09,024
And I said, "You're not
gonna be able to get in."
704
00:43:09,157 --> 00:43:10,926
I said, "They lock that place up
tight as a drum."
705
00:43:11,026 --> 00:43:12,627
They said, "Don't worry."
706
00:43:12,761 --> 00:43:16,631
Dale and I and that one six-pack
of warm beer.
707
00:43:18,133 --> 00:43:22,737
We went back to the trade show,
and worked until we passed out.
708
00:43:22,838 --> 00:43:28,343
Because the demo already existed,
we made it better.
709
00:43:28,443 --> 00:43:33,548
The demo started
as a yellow and blue spinning ball
710
00:43:33,648 --> 00:43:38,019
that Sam Dicker wrote, that filled
the screen, and it was a great demo.
711
00:43:38,153 --> 00:43:41,957
And that was one of the canned demos
that we had for the show at CES.
712
00:43:42,057 --> 00:43:46,194
Prior to that, I had started working
on a modification of that demo,
713
00:43:46,294 --> 00:43:50,398
which was to basically shrink it
down to a small ball,
714
00:43:50,499 --> 00:43:51,633
which I called a Quickie.
715
00:43:51,766 --> 00:43:55,070
Using a play field, I could make it
bounce up and down.
716
00:43:55,203 --> 00:43:59,307
Having a background in physics,
I knew the simple algorithms
717
00:43:59,441 --> 00:44:02,077
to make something look like
it's bouncing up and down.
718
00:44:02,210 --> 00:44:06,715
And also knowing exactly how
the play field worked with a colour palette,
719
00:44:06,848 --> 00:44:11,086
I knew that I could put a trick in there
to make it look like there was a shadow,
720
00:44:11,219 --> 00:44:13,989
and that the ball would actually
cast a shadow.
721
00:44:14,523 --> 00:44:17,225
So I programmed that in there,
722
00:44:19,094 --> 00:44:22,664
and it was just a basic,
simple bouncing ball
723
00:44:22,797 --> 00:44:26,635
casting a shadow
on a simple grid in the back.
724
00:44:27,302 --> 00:44:31,540
What happened was that
we managed to fall asleep.
725
00:44:31,673 --> 00:44:34,309
I think I fell asleep first
and Dale went second.
726
00:44:34,442 --> 00:44:39,047
But the last thing that he did
was he had created a build,
727
00:44:39,147 --> 00:44:41,016
run it on the hardware,
728
00:44:41,116 --> 00:44:45,921
and then worked on the software a little
bit more to make one more change,
729
00:44:46,054 --> 00:44:49,858
and then while he was waiting
for that one more change to compile,
730
00:44:49,958 --> 00:44:51,526
he fell asleep.
731
00:44:51,660 --> 00:44:55,664
But what happened was then that
the two of us were in that room sleeping
732
00:44:55,764 --> 00:44:58,066
when our co-workers showed up
the next morning
733
00:44:58,166 --> 00:45:01,670
to clean up the booth and get ready
for the next day of the show.
734
00:45:01,770 --> 00:45:06,308
Both RJ and I are sleeping on the floor
cos we were there all night long,
735
00:45:07,342 --> 00:45:12,781
and I had left the bouncing ball
that we had just created that last night
736
00:45:12,914 --> 00:45:14,516
bouncing on the screen.
737
00:45:14,649 --> 00:45:17,953
The next morning we came in,
and we all looked at each other and said,
738
00:45:18,086 --> 00:45:20,188
"What the hell did
those two guys do last night?"
739
00:45:20,322 --> 00:45:24,359
When they came in, they clearly
recognised what was different,
740
00:45:24,492 --> 00:45:26,595
but no one knew that we were
in the next room sleeping,
741
00:45:26,728 --> 00:45:30,532
because we were in a room separate
from the main computer hardware room.
742
00:45:30,665 --> 00:45:34,736
We had to be in this little side room
where we had passed out.
743
00:45:34,869 --> 00:45:37,105
And so they didn't even know
we were in there for about half an hour,
744
00:45:37,205 --> 00:45:40,575
until someone stumbled upon us cos they
were looking for a place to put their coats.
745
00:45:40,709 --> 00:45:44,713
And they find the two of us
asleep in there.
746
00:45:46,348 --> 00:45:49,317
The show was only gonna go on
for one more day.
747
00:45:49,417 --> 00:45:53,755
Gary McCoy and Don Reisinger,
they'd already brought a lot of people by
748
00:45:53,888 --> 00:45:57,125
to show off the capabilities
of the Amiga computer.
749
00:45:57,225 --> 00:46:01,129
This was all behind curtains.
It wasn't open to anybody to just walk in.
750
00:46:01,229 --> 00:46:02,430
You had to be invited in.
751
00:46:02,564 --> 00:46:06,635
So it was like Sears and all these
other companies that were invited in.
752
00:46:06,768 --> 00:46:11,039
They had already seen this stuff,
and they all immediately went out and got,
753
00:46:11,172 --> 00:46:13,808
I think, just about every person
that they had already brought in,
754
00:46:13,942 --> 00:46:16,711
they brought them back to see that demo.
755
00:46:22,450 --> 00:46:26,988
You could not believe the number
of people that wanted to get in to see
756
00:46:27,122 --> 00:46:30,025
what the hell was going on
inside that compound.
757
00:46:30,158 --> 00:46:31,626
I thought it was incredible.
758
00:46:32,427 --> 00:46:35,330
That was the most amazing thing!
759
00:46:35,430 --> 00:46:40,402
Yeah, real-time graphics
was amazing to do in those days.
760
00:46:41,069 --> 00:46:45,040
Now, of course, it's very commonplace,
but that was something special.
761
00:46:45,173 --> 00:46:47,976
It reminded me of the statement
from Samuel F.B. Morse,
762
00:46:48,076 --> 00:46:51,579
when he did the first telegraph:
"What hath God wrought?"
763
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,248
That's the first thing that came to mind,
764
00:46:53,381 --> 00:46:55,550
"What in the hell have we done here
to this industry?"
765
00:47:04,392 --> 00:47:07,062
(Hart) There was a lot of buzz
in the marketplace,
766
00:47:07,195 --> 00:47:12,434
and even Steve Jobs had heard the buzz
and came over a couple of different times.
767
00:47:12,567 --> 00:47:18,406
After he visited, we were convinced
it was strictly a fishing expedition
768
00:47:18,506 --> 00:47:21,176
to see what it was
he might be up against.
769
00:47:21,276 --> 00:47:25,180
We were constantly giving demos
to potential investors, or partners,
770
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,582
or someone that could
bring in some cash.
771
00:47:27,682 --> 00:47:31,252
We had a number of the most
prominent venture capital people
772
00:47:31,386 --> 00:47:33,688
in the tech business come and visit.
773
00:47:33,822 --> 00:47:36,224
They loved what we had,
774
00:47:36,324 --> 00:47:38,893
but in the final analysis,
775
00:47:39,027 --> 00:47:43,198
they figured it was gonna take a whole lot
of money to get this thing to the market,
776
00:47:43,298 --> 00:47:46,534
and they weren't willing
to go up against IBM and Apple.
777
00:47:47,001 --> 00:47:50,905
We were pretty nervous that
if we didn't get an influx of cash soon,
778
00:47:51,039 --> 00:47:54,676
or if the company wasn't purchased soon,
779
00:47:54,809 --> 00:47:58,213
that we'd all be out of a job and
that dream would have just fallen apart.
780
00:47:58,380 --> 00:48:02,851
When Amiga started running out of money,
Dave Morse had to start looking for some.
781
00:48:03,485 --> 00:48:08,423
And he ended up going back to Atari,
where Jay Miner actually had some contacts.
782
00:48:08,923 --> 00:48:14,262
So, they made a deal that Atari would
lend them $500,000 to keep going.
783
00:48:14,362 --> 00:48:17,365
They would use that money
to actually make chips
784
00:48:17,499 --> 00:48:20,101
of the prototype chips
that they had previously made.
785
00:48:20,235 --> 00:48:25,039
If they didn't pay back that loan
by June 30th, 1984,
786
00:48:25,140 --> 00:48:28,276
it meant that Atari would get
that technology for nothing.
787
00:48:28,376 --> 00:48:31,980
The deal was made,
and it was a bit of a deal with the devil.
788
00:48:32,113 --> 00:48:36,484
There was that point in time when
we were going to have to produce or,
789
00:48:36,584 --> 00:48:40,522
you know, we were gonna end up
being part of Atari one way or the other.
790
00:48:40,655 --> 00:48:44,759
They didn't think it was a smart deal.
Jay Miner knew it wasn't a smart deal.
791
00:48:44,893 --> 00:48:48,129
But they really had no options at that time,
cos they were just running out of money.
792
00:48:48,263 --> 00:48:50,598
But that deal was made
with Warner Brothers,
793
00:48:50,732 --> 00:48:55,870
and between that time and the time
that Commodore came into the picture,
794
00:48:55,970 --> 00:48:58,673
Warner Brothers sold the whole thing
to the Tramiels.
795
00:48:59,174 --> 00:49:01,709
Warner Communications' sale
of its Atari home computers
796
00:49:01,810 --> 00:49:04,579
may eliminate a big financial headache
for that company,
797
00:49:04,712 --> 00:49:08,316
but the sale, for $240 million in notes
to Jack Tramiel,
798
00:49:08,416 --> 00:49:10,118
who once headed
Commodore computers,
799
00:49:10,218 --> 00:49:12,320
could cause headaches
for a lot of other companies.
800
00:49:12,420 --> 00:49:15,623
Here's our clear-headed business reporter,
Barron's Editor Alan Abelson.
801
00:49:15,757 --> 00:49:16,958
- Good morning, Alan.
- Good morning.
802
00:49:17,091 --> 00:49:20,028
Well, that kind of deal, Bob,
was a Henny Youngman deal.
803
00:49:20,161 --> 00:49:21,162
What does that mean?
804
00:49:21,296 --> 00:49:24,499
That means that Warner said to them,
"Here, take my company, please."
805
00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:27,135
The fact is that Tramiel
almost got it for nothing.
806
00:49:27,235 --> 00:49:29,971
The terms were extraordinarily easy.
807
00:49:30,104 --> 00:49:32,740
And, you know, Tramiel's a guy
who takes no prisoners.
808
00:49:32,841 --> 00:49:34,642
So this ought to be quite a fight.
809
00:49:34,776 --> 00:49:37,645
A real grudge battle
between Commodore and Atari.
810
00:49:37,779 --> 00:49:39,981
So Jack Tramiel, when I knew him,
811
00:49:40,114 --> 00:49:42,951
he was president of Commodore.
He had a reputation.
812
00:49:43,051 --> 00:49:47,155
His history was that he was
in a concentration camp
813
00:49:47,255 --> 00:49:49,357
in Germany in World War II.
814
00:49:49,457 --> 00:49:52,727
And he came out of that
with kind of a certain attitude.
815
00:49:52,827 --> 00:49:55,763
His attitude is "business is hell".
816
00:49:55,864 --> 00:49:59,000
And if you get in his way,
he will send you there.
817
00:49:59,133 --> 00:50:02,370
You don't want to be
in a negotiation with a man
818
00:50:02,470 --> 00:50:05,874
who firmly believes
that business is war,
819
00:50:06,007 --> 00:50:08,543
and all he has to do is figure out
how to bring you down.
820
00:50:08,643 --> 00:50:11,579
He would be the guy
you want on your side.
821
00:50:11,679 --> 00:50:14,082
But you still wouldn't
necessarily trust him.
822
00:50:14,616 --> 00:50:17,886
Sometimes in a really intense meeting
if he wanted to show you how fierce he was
823
00:50:18,019 --> 00:50:21,256
and how strong he was,
and how much of a survivor he was,
824
00:50:21,389 --> 00:50:23,391
he would pull up his shirt and show you
825
00:50:23,491 --> 00:50:27,195
the serial number
that had been tattooed on him
826
00:50:27,295 --> 00:50:29,464
when he was in a concentration camp.
827
00:50:29,597 --> 00:50:34,402
The man was an extremely intense man
and his family picked up on that whole vibe.
828
00:50:34,502 --> 00:50:37,171
(Reporter) Are you prepared to tell us
why you left Commodore?
829
00:50:37,272 --> 00:50:40,441
The chairman of the company
and myself have disagreed
830
00:50:40,575 --> 00:50:44,379
on the basic principles
of how to run the company.
831
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,683
And I felt if I cannot go
into my office
832
00:50:48,816 --> 00:50:51,886
smiling and being happy,
I better quit.
833
00:50:52,020 --> 00:50:54,055
Commodore was a huge business
at the time.
834
00:50:54,522 --> 00:50:57,258
Irving Gould and Jack Tramiel
built that company
835
00:50:57,392 --> 00:51:00,428
to being a powerhouse
in home personal computing.
836
00:51:01,329 --> 00:51:04,032
(Leonardi) When Jack went to Atari,
it was a good move for him.
837
00:51:04,132 --> 00:51:07,635
He was going to try to duplicate
the Commodore business model.
838
00:51:07,735 --> 00:51:10,004
He was going to try to turn
everything around.
839
00:51:10,104 --> 00:51:11,806
He knew what he had to do.
840
00:51:11,906 --> 00:51:15,743
And Irving Gould,
who was chairman of Commodore,
841
00:51:15,877 --> 00:51:19,747
was uncertain as to how powerful
and how successful Jack could be.
842
00:51:19,881 --> 00:51:22,650
As they started to approach
the June 30th deadline,
843
00:51:22,750 --> 00:51:26,321
they didn't want to just give up
that technology to Atari
844
00:51:26,454 --> 00:51:29,924
and they needed to be able
to pay back that loan
845
00:51:30,058 --> 00:51:31,826
in order to get that off their back.
846
00:51:31,926 --> 00:51:34,062
That half-million dollars
that came in from Atari
847
00:51:34,162 --> 00:51:38,766
really did kind of get us a breath of air
for a short period of time.
848
00:51:38,900 --> 00:51:42,937
But Jack Tramiel from Commodore
had moved to Atari
849
00:51:43,071 --> 00:51:47,175
and then this was the idea
of going to work for Jack Tramiel,
850
00:51:47,308 --> 00:51:51,679
which all of us were quite nervous about
and didn't like that idea.
851
00:51:51,779 --> 00:51:55,583
It felt to us that
as the negotiations were progressing,
852
00:51:55,717 --> 00:51:58,186
they wanted more and more.
853
00:51:58,319 --> 00:52:03,057
And if it got to the point where we were
putting them in business to compete with us,
854
00:52:03,157 --> 00:52:05,393
that wouldn't have made any sense to us.
855
00:52:05,526 --> 00:52:09,130
And we kept telling them that,
but we couldn't budge them.
856
00:52:09,263 --> 00:52:11,966
The Atari guys knew that we were
getting more and more desperate,
857
00:52:12,100 --> 00:52:14,869
that we're almost out of money,
that time was almost up,
858
00:52:14,969 --> 00:52:17,872
and they knew they had us
over a barrel
859
00:52:17,972 --> 00:52:19,707
and they believed that it was too late,
860
00:52:19,807 --> 00:52:23,578
that we couldn't find
another partner to go with,
861
00:52:23,711 --> 00:52:26,814
and that Atari acquisition was
the only hope for Amiga.
862
00:52:27,415 --> 00:52:29,217
Part of the deal that we made with Atari
863
00:52:29,350 --> 00:52:32,587
was they would get
the detailed silicon drawings
864
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:35,023
of how to make the three custom chips.
865
00:52:35,156 --> 00:52:39,160
There was some things that we did
to protect ourselves against Atari.
866
00:52:39,627 --> 00:52:42,930
The set of drawings we gave them
were modified.
867
00:52:43,031 --> 00:52:44,799
They wouldn't work.
868
00:52:44,932 --> 00:52:49,437
There was only one set
of correct drawings,
869
00:52:49,570 --> 00:52:53,741
and they were saved in a dusty old
attaché case here in this house.
870
00:52:53,841 --> 00:52:57,111
They only wanted the hardware,
and they weren't interested in the people.
871
00:52:57,211 --> 00:53:01,149
The just wanted the tool as a weapon
to point at Commodore
872
00:53:01,249 --> 00:53:03,551
and try to sink the ship of Commodore.
873
00:53:08,990 --> 00:53:11,826
Somehow Dave got in contact
with Commodore.
874
00:53:11,959 --> 00:53:15,930
Dave and I had agreed to some
parameters of what was acceptable
875
00:53:16,030 --> 00:53:21,669
in terms of a price for the company,
and Dave went ahead and did a deal.
876
00:53:21,803 --> 00:53:24,539
Dave was very, very pragmatic about this.
877
00:53:24,639 --> 00:53:26,974
And I think for him the thing was,
878
00:53:27,075 --> 00:53:29,644
even though we can finish this,
879
00:53:29,777 --> 00:53:33,848
we don't know if we're going to have
the marketing horsepower to market it
880
00:53:33,981 --> 00:53:37,018
and that Commodore is
a better bet for that
881
00:53:37,151 --> 00:53:39,387
because they do have
the marketing horsepower.
882
00:53:39,487 --> 00:53:42,256
They've got the distribution system,
they've got the manufacturing.
883
00:53:42,390 --> 00:53:46,360
There was a lot of animosity between
Jack Tramiel and Irving Gould.
884
00:53:46,461 --> 00:53:51,265
And Irving Gould knew that
if they bought that technology outright,
885
00:53:51,399 --> 00:53:53,701
Jack Tramiel would not be able
to use that at Atari.
886
00:53:53,835 --> 00:53:57,171
So, what he ended up doing,
instead of just buying the chips,
887
00:53:57,271 --> 00:54:00,641
was he bought the whole Amiga company
for about $30 million dollars.
888
00:54:00,775 --> 00:54:05,480
And I was with Dave
the day we drove over to Atari
889
00:54:05,613 --> 00:54:10,284
and presented the guy
with a cheque for $500,000,
890
00:54:10,418 --> 00:54:12,787
which he was not at all expecting.
891
00:54:12,887 --> 00:54:14,922
And he almost fell off his chair.
892
00:54:15,056 --> 00:54:19,193
He had to excuse himself
from the meeting to call Jack Tramiel,
893
00:54:19,293 --> 00:54:23,231
who was in the process of buying Atari.
894
00:54:23,331 --> 00:54:27,502
And apparently, Tramiel,
not knowing anything about this deal,
895
00:54:27,635 --> 00:54:32,607
said "When somebody gives you
a cheque for $500,000,
896
00:54:32,707 --> 00:54:34,242
"you take it."
897
00:54:34,342 --> 00:54:37,812
And so we left.
He took the cheque and we left.
898
00:54:37,912 --> 00:54:42,083
Months later, Leonard Tramiel
was looking through some documents
899
00:54:42,216 --> 00:54:45,553
and he happened to see
that there was this deal with Amiga
900
00:54:45,686 --> 00:54:47,822
that perhaps wasn't fully honoured.
901
00:54:47,922 --> 00:54:49,490
And that's when the lawsuit came.
902
00:54:49,624 --> 00:54:53,027
Tramiel being Tramiel
sued Commodore and sued all of us.
903
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:05,873
The computer business is not dead,
it's alive and kicking.
904
00:55:12,947 --> 00:55:15,716
When the lawsuit from Jack Tramiel
came along
905
00:55:15,850 --> 00:55:19,387
and Atari started suing Amiga
and Jay Miner personally,
906
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:23,291
the judge ordered that they had to stop
work on it until things were sorted out.
907
00:55:23,391 --> 00:55:26,561
The basis of the lawsuit seems to be that
908
00:55:26,694 --> 00:55:30,331
the only way Atari was not
to get the chip technology
909
00:55:30,464 --> 00:55:33,401
was if the chips weren't
in a working state.
910
00:55:33,534 --> 00:55:38,906
When Dave Morse came over to Atari
and paid back the $500,000 on June 30th,
911
00:55:39,006 --> 00:55:41,943
he told them that
the chips weren't working yet.
912
00:55:42,076 --> 00:55:46,948
That got Amiga off the hook
about having to deliver the chips to Atari.
913
00:55:47,081 --> 00:55:49,717
However,
when Leonard Tramiel looked at it,
914
00:55:49,817 --> 00:55:51,619
he thought it was really suspicious
915
00:55:51,752 --> 00:55:54,488
because they actually did have
the working prototypes of the chips.
916
00:55:54,589 --> 00:55:56,624
They were demo-ing the computer,
917
00:55:56,757 --> 00:56:01,229
and they subsequently successfully made
the chips in silicon that were working.
918
00:56:01,362 --> 00:56:03,397
So, he thought there was
something fishy about that.
919
00:56:06,334 --> 00:56:07,735
Yes, I am very happy.
920
00:56:09,737 --> 00:56:11,606
When Jack Tramiel bought Atari,
921
00:56:12,373 --> 00:56:16,010
he started pulling in all kinds
of engineers from Commodore.
922
00:56:16,143 --> 00:56:21,182
And a lot of those engineers were taking
Commodore intellectual property with them.
923
00:56:21,315 --> 00:56:25,319
Irving Gould really just wanted
to slow down Jack as much as he could,
924
00:56:25,419 --> 00:56:27,955
so he did a lawsuit against Atari first.
925
00:56:28,623 --> 00:56:33,461
Jack attacking Commodore back
is probably somewhat warranted
926
00:56:33,594 --> 00:56:35,029
the way things were going.
927
00:56:35,162 --> 00:56:37,832
So, there was a lot of animosity
between those two
928
00:56:37,965 --> 00:56:39,267
and it really showed up.
929
00:56:40,234 --> 00:56:42,670
Oh, God. There is more
to this story but, I mean,
930
00:56:42,803 --> 00:56:46,574
we spent hours with our attorneys
931
00:56:47,074 --> 00:56:50,177
preparing for a trial.
932
00:56:50,978 --> 00:56:54,849
And I was dressed
and ready to go down to testify,
933
00:56:55,683 --> 00:56:58,819
when we were told that
Commodore had settled.
934
00:57:08,296 --> 00:57:10,831
We had been watching Atari,
and of course,
935
00:57:10,965 --> 00:57:13,701
Atari had thought that
they were going to get the Amiga.
936
00:57:13,834 --> 00:57:17,571
And when they didn't get the Amiga,
it was time to find a substitute
937
00:57:17,672 --> 00:57:19,073
that could compete with the Amiga.
938
00:57:19,206 --> 00:57:20,775
They wanted to drive the Amiga
939
00:57:20,875 --> 00:57:23,377
and drive Commodore out of business
with what they were doing.
940
00:57:23,477 --> 00:57:25,880
The Tramiel family was nothing
if not resourceful.
941
00:57:26,314 --> 00:57:29,517
So once they took over Atari
and they were trying to revive it,
942
00:57:29,650 --> 00:57:34,055
they needed a new product and it was time
to move into 16-bit technology.
943
00:57:34,188 --> 00:57:37,858
Shiraz Shivji was the designer
of the Atari STE.
944
00:57:37,992 --> 00:57:39,527
He came right from Commodore.
945
00:57:39,660 --> 00:57:41,329
They knew of our specs pretty well,
946
00:57:41,462 --> 00:57:43,998
and so they tried to copy that
as much as they could,
947
00:57:44,098 --> 00:57:49,036
and throw together a machine
that would look as good on paper
948
00:57:49,136 --> 00:57:50,504
and try to compete with us.
949
00:57:51,405 --> 00:57:54,008
And what's the quickest thing
they could put together?
950
00:57:54,108 --> 00:57:58,446
The 68000, a lot of RAM,
and a MIDI port.
951
00:58:01,449 --> 00:58:05,820
'The Atari 520 STE has twice
the power of many business models.'
952
00:58:07,355 --> 00:58:10,925
I didn't dislike the STE at all.
I thought it was OK.
953
00:58:11,058 --> 00:58:15,830
It just didn't have anything inside it
that was exciting, really.
954
00:58:15,930 --> 00:58:20,034
Atari ST was a little bit more purist,
I suppose.
955
00:58:21,302 --> 00:58:23,571
By "purist" you can read "shit."
956
00:58:23,704 --> 00:58:29,710
The Atari ST hardware and software-wise
was far more evolutionary.
957
00:58:30,978 --> 00:58:33,114
Kind of what you would expect
somebody to have done.
958
00:58:33,247 --> 00:58:37,184
(Ahmad) The ST had the same
processor, but it was slightly faster.
959
00:58:37,685 --> 00:58:40,988
It was 8 megahertz,
instead of just over 7 megahertz.
960
00:58:41,122 --> 00:58:45,926
The ST didn't have a blitter,
so it wasn't able to shift as many pixels.
961
00:58:46,727 --> 00:58:51,799
The ST didn't have a Copper,
but you could kind of fake display lists,
962
00:58:51,932 --> 00:58:54,335
of a sort... not really.
963
00:58:54,468 --> 00:58:55,936
It didn't have sprite hardware.
964
00:59:00,007 --> 00:59:01,776
'It can paint pictures.
965
00:59:01,909 --> 00:59:04,145
'And make them move.'
966
00:59:04,278 --> 00:59:07,782
The ST palette was rubbish.
I think it had 512 colours,
967
00:59:08,282 --> 00:59:13,187
and they weren't even nice colours.
968
00:59:14,755 --> 00:59:18,292
It didn't have sprite hardware.
The audio hardware was rubbish.
969
00:59:18,392 --> 00:59:20,394
'Scroll and the music will scroll.'
970
00:59:24,532 --> 00:59:26,901
(Man) OK, we're just using the Atari
right now, nothing else?
971
00:59:27,001 --> 00:59:29,170
That's correct. The sound chip
in the Atari is playing all the music.
972
00:59:29,303 --> 00:59:30,538
(Man) OK, we can stop that for a second.
973
00:59:30,638 --> 00:59:33,908
The ST didn't have the capabilities
of the Amiga,
974
00:59:34,008 --> 00:59:36,377
and the operating system,
975
00:59:36,510 --> 00:59:39,713
because they were under
such time constraints,
976
00:59:39,814 --> 00:59:42,817
wasn't as mature as the operating
system and the user interface
977
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:44,418
that the Amiga had when it was launched.
978
00:59:44,552 --> 00:59:46,854
Its operating system was TOS.
979
00:59:47,755 --> 00:59:49,723
Well, that said it all to me.
980
00:59:50,624 --> 00:59:52,660
That it was
the Tramiel Operating System.
981
00:59:52,793 --> 00:59:55,563
When it first came out,
everyone called it the "Jackintosh"
982
00:59:55,663 --> 01:00:00,000
because it had a nice black and white mode
so it could do what the Macintosh did
983
01:00:00,134 --> 01:00:01,602
plus a little bit of colour.
984
01:00:01,735 --> 01:00:04,138
And it did it OK.
985
01:00:04,238 --> 01:00:07,741
You know, it didn't multi-task,
it ran GEM-DOS or TOS,
986
01:00:07,842 --> 01:00:10,177
which was really just
repackaged GEM-DOS
987
01:00:10,277 --> 01:00:12,446
that made it a little more MS-DOS-like
988
01:00:12,580 --> 01:00:15,583
so it was easy for people to write
programs for it if they knew MS-DOS.
989
01:00:15,683 --> 01:00:20,454
But MS-DOS was the past.
It wasn't moving forward.
990
01:00:20,588 --> 01:00:22,623
The ST had two things over the Amiga,
in my opinion.
991
01:00:22,756 --> 01:00:26,760
The first was that beautiful little
monochrome display that made it look like
992
01:00:26,861 --> 01:00:29,864
the 'Jackintosh' that
it is referred to as affectionately.
993
01:00:30,564 --> 01:00:32,199
And the other thing that
it had over the Amiga,
994
01:00:32,299 --> 01:00:33,801
which for me was a stroke of genius,
995
01:00:33,901 --> 01:00:37,705
which is what defined the ST,
were a pair of MIDI ports.
996
01:00:37,838 --> 01:00:39,807
And as a musician myself at the time,
997
01:00:39,907 --> 01:00:42,510
I had an ST because it ran Creator,
998
01:00:43,210 --> 01:00:46,280
which of course,
now is Logic Pro on the Mac.
999
01:00:46,413 --> 01:00:49,850
They also had a buffered MIDI port, which
is what you really needed in those days
1000
01:00:50,317 --> 01:00:53,521
and unfortunately the Amiga didn't
really have a buffered serial port so
1001
01:00:53,654 --> 01:00:56,457
our MIDI could conceivably
break down faster.
1002
01:00:56,590 --> 01:01:01,195
On the other hand, once people got
better at writing multitasking code
1003
01:01:01,295 --> 01:01:04,999
music software worked a whole lot better
than it ever did when it was single tasking.
1004
01:01:05,099 --> 01:01:09,670
The Tramiels were good
at pushing less expensive hardware
1005
01:01:09,803 --> 01:01:12,039
and the ST kind of wormed its way
into the picture.
1006
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,843
My idea is always to try
to bring the best technology
1007
01:01:15,943 --> 01:01:19,046
at the lowest price to the masses.
1008
01:01:19,146 --> 01:01:22,516
We are a company which we like to sell
to the masses, not to the classes.
1009
01:01:22,650 --> 01:01:26,954
I think the ST was
a really good example
1010
01:01:27,087 --> 01:01:30,057
of what a Commodore-like product was.
1011
01:01:30,157 --> 01:01:34,562
It was very simple mechanically.
There was a lot of integration everywhere.
1012
01:01:34,695 --> 01:01:38,032
You can put a chip to reduce
the number of parts on it.
1013
01:01:38,132 --> 01:01:40,301
They had done a very good job at that.
1014
01:01:40,434 --> 01:01:42,303
And it was simple to manufacture.
1015
01:01:42,436 --> 01:01:45,539
I have to give them credit because
for the amount of time they had,
1016
01:01:45,673 --> 01:01:48,142
the few months they had
to pull the Atari ST together,
1017
01:01:48,275 --> 01:01:49,677
it actually worked pretty well.
1018
01:01:49,777 --> 01:01:52,146
It wasn't an Amiga in terms
of the total capability of the system
1019
01:01:52,279 --> 01:01:53,547
and what it was capable of,
1020
01:01:53,681 --> 01:01:56,050
but it was something
that could definitely sell
1021
01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:59,887
as an increment above the Apple II,
or above the Commodore 64.
1022
01:01:59,987 --> 01:02:04,391
We were concerned that the Atari would take
away a lot of the thunder that the Amiga had
1023
01:02:04,525 --> 01:02:07,528
and in fact, it did,
because they did beat us to market
1024
01:02:07,661 --> 01:02:09,663
and it did have a lot of good capabilities.
1025
01:02:09,763 --> 01:02:12,199
Certainly when the Atari hit the ground
1026
01:02:12,333 --> 01:02:16,303
it did better at some things
in the first year or two than the Amiga did
1027
01:02:16,403 --> 01:02:18,005
because of all the stuff that was there.
1028
01:02:18,138 --> 01:02:19,673
The Amiga had a steeper learning curve.
1029
01:02:19,773 --> 01:02:24,378
We have introduced the ST
in the United States on July 8th.
1030
01:02:24,511 --> 01:02:26,680
We are selling everything we make.
1031
01:02:26,780 --> 01:02:29,917
It was the best launch I had
in the history of the computer business.
1032
01:02:30,050 --> 01:02:32,987
Jack Tramiel, of course, was
the boss of Commodore Computers.
1033
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,222
Since his sudden
and rather startling departure,
1034
01:02:35,356 --> 01:02:39,593
Commodore, like many another big name,
has been beset by major financial problems.
1035
01:02:39,727 --> 01:02:40,761
But now they are fighting back.
1036
01:02:40,894 --> 01:02:44,732
And Frank Leonardi is Vice-President
of Marketing Business Systems,
1037
01:02:44,832 --> 01:02:47,167
Commodore Business Machines,
Incorporated.
1038
01:02:47,301 --> 01:02:48,969
I was hired by Commodore
1039
01:02:49,103 --> 01:02:54,041
and they wanted
to duplicate the market-entry
1040
01:02:54,174 --> 01:02:56,744
of the new Amiga technology
1041
01:02:57,544 --> 01:03:00,581
just as the Macintosh was done by Apple.
1042
01:03:00,714 --> 01:03:05,352
So, they brought me in to duplicate
the channel penetration,
1043
01:03:05,452 --> 01:03:08,589
the concept, the marketing,
put the team together
1044
01:03:08,722 --> 01:03:12,459
and try to see if they could go ahead
and get the Amiga out on the market.
1045
01:03:12,593 --> 01:03:15,129
When they look at the speed
and the architecture of the Amiga
1046
01:03:15,229 --> 01:03:18,399
compared to the speed and the architecture
of the Macintosh, there's no comparison.
1047
01:03:18,532 --> 01:03:19,800
When they launched the Amiga,
1048
01:03:19,933 --> 01:03:23,804
Commodore marketing did
a big, splashy launch in New York.
1049
01:03:24,405 --> 01:03:27,875
They had celebrities there,
they had all kinds of press,
1050
01:03:28,008 --> 01:03:31,578
the computer press,
but also just mainstream press.
1051
01:03:32,646 --> 01:03:34,748
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
1052
01:03:35,416 --> 01:03:38,185
Commodore welcomes you
to Lincoln Center.
1053
01:03:38,852 --> 01:03:42,289
My name is Bob Truckenbrod,
Vice President of Marketing for Commodore,
1054
01:03:43,390 --> 01:03:44,825
and I will be your host
1055
01:03:44,958 --> 01:03:47,695
for what promises to be
a very exciting exhibition.
1056
01:03:49,596 --> 01:03:54,034
For tonight is the world premiere
of Amiga.
1057
01:03:54,168 --> 01:03:58,572
The launch of the Amiga in New York
was a wonderful experience.
1058
01:03:58,672 --> 01:04:02,810
We were so impressed
that Commodore could pull that off.
1059
01:04:02,910 --> 01:04:06,680
You know, right there at Lincoln Center,
to announce the Amiga to the world.
1060
01:04:06,814 --> 01:04:09,249
And to have all of us in tuxedos
1061
01:04:09,383 --> 01:04:12,486
and the women in beautiful dresses
and that kind of thing.
1062
01:04:12,619 --> 01:04:17,858
(Hart) It really was fun, to see all
these dudes dressed in black-tie, man,
1063
01:04:17,991 --> 01:04:22,463
it was just too much, too much.
1064
01:04:22,596 --> 01:04:24,998
We did a satellite uplink on this.
1065
01:04:25,099 --> 01:04:27,501
So this thing actually
kinda went world-wide.
1066
01:04:27,634 --> 01:04:31,438
The same time we showed
that launch from Lincoln Center
1067
01:04:31,538 --> 01:04:33,507
and anybody that could sign on to it
1068
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,810
was able to sign on and see
the launch exactly as it occurred.
1069
01:04:36,910 --> 01:04:40,047
Commodore really, you know,
they treated us very well.
1070
01:04:40,147 --> 01:04:43,283
I mean, they set all that stuff out for us
1071
01:04:43,417 --> 01:04:45,719
and in some ways I felt like
1072
01:04:45,853 --> 01:04:49,523
some of the complaints
about Commodore were overblown
1073
01:04:49,656 --> 01:04:52,860
because they really did take the thing
and they really ran with it.
1074
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:54,661
The sales team and the marketing team
1075
01:04:54,762 --> 01:04:58,699
was involved only to the point
of trying to address the end use.
1076
01:04:58,832 --> 01:05:00,567
How were we going
to address the Amiga?
1077
01:05:00,701 --> 01:05:02,736
What was its main use?
1078
01:05:02,870 --> 01:05:05,572
And at that time there was a guy
named Bob Pariseau
1079
01:05:05,706 --> 01:05:07,141
who gave the presentation.
1080
01:05:07,641 --> 01:05:11,145
He was one of the engineers involved
from the original Amiga days.
1081
01:05:11,278 --> 01:05:12,679
The Amiga computer.
1082
01:05:14,181 --> 01:05:17,751
We've lived our dream
and seen it come to life.
1083
01:05:18,752 --> 01:05:20,354
Now it's your turn.
1084
01:05:20,487 --> 01:05:23,957
What will you do
with the Amiga computer?
1085
01:05:24,091 --> 01:05:26,794
Bob basically was kind of the overseer
1086
01:05:26,927 --> 01:05:29,696
of a lot of the technical stuff,
particularly the software side.
1087
01:05:30,497 --> 01:05:34,802
And he did have the ability
to translate the techno side of things
1088
01:05:34,935 --> 01:05:37,604
into terms that I think
most people could really understand.
1089
01:05:37,738 --> 01:05:39,706
So when we needed a spokesman
who could,
1090
01:05:40,307 --> 01:05:42,409
if he got cornered
on a technical question,
1091
01:05:42,543 --> 01:05:46,180
could respond
with a technology-based answer,
1092
01:05:46,313 --> 01:05:48,549
but he also could make that translation
1093
01:05:48,682 --> 01:05:50,884
into terms that would
be more consumer-friendly.
1094
01:05:51,485 --> 01:05:52,820
Good evening.
1095
01:05:52,953 --> 01:05:55,556
What you are about to witness
1096
01:05:55,689 --> 01:05:59,760
is the result of an effort
of research and engineering
1097
01:05:59,893 --> 01:06:02,029
that began in 1982
1098
01:06:03,030 --> 01:06:04,565
and which, to date,
1099
01:06:04,698 --> 01:06:09,169
has consumed over 100 man-years
of engineering talent.
1100
01:06:10,037 --> 01:06:11,538
The Amiga computer.
1101
01:06:12,606 --> 01:06:15,175
What we demonstrated at the launch
1102
01:06:15,309 --> 01:06:17,778
was just mind-blowing for these guys.
1103
01:06:17,911 --> 01:06:21,348
When we went after that launch,
1104
01:06:21,448 --> 01:06:26,553
it was to show audio, music,
graphics and speed.
1105
01:06:26,653 --> 01:06:27,821
And in doing that,
1106
01:06:27,955 --> 01:06:30,557
with the technology difference
of having the three chips
1107
01:06:30,657 --> 01:06:34,428
we tried to convince the world
that we had a better, faster
1108
01:06:34,561 --> 01:06:35,963
more colourful machine
1109
01:06:36,063 --> 01:06:38,532
and a distribution setup
1110
01:06:38,632 --> 01:06:40,467
that could easily be transitioned to.
1111
01:06:40,601 --> 01:06:44,037
To show off the graphics capabilities,
they got Andy Warhol
1112
01:06:44,171 --> 01:06:46,473
and Deborah Harry,
who's the singer in Blondie.
1113
01:06:46,607 --> 01:06:50,010
Andy Warhol was famous
for doing images of stars.
1114
01:06:50,143 --> 01:06:54,181
He would do a portrait of them
with very primary colour backgrounds.
1115
01:06:54,681 --> 01:06:57,017
And so they got him to do
one of those type of images,
1116
01:06:57,150 --> 01:07:00,487
where he would scan a picture
of her in and then colour it.
1117
01:07:00,621 --> 01:07:04,625
I was there for the rehearsals
that were going on with Andy Warhol.
1118
01:07:04,758 --> 01:07:08,662
And it was dicey, because the computer
was still not quite reliable.
1119
01:07:08,795 --> 01:07:13,300
And we were very concerned that
it might crash or just totally catch on fire,
1120
01:07:13,433 --> 01:07:16,637
burn up or something
in the middle of this big show
1121
01:07:16,770 --> 01:07:19,673
where we had
all of this press from New York.
1122
01:07:19,806 --> 01:07:24,211
We had this artist at Amiga called
Jack Haeger who was just a brilliant artist.
1123
01:07:24,311 --> 01:07:27,981
A lot of the early stuff
that was just awesome was Jack.
1124
01:07:28,081 --> 01:07:30,617
And Jack was also smooth
and a good talker.
1125
01:07:30,717 --> 01:07:34,321
And so, we decided he'd get up on stage
with Andy Warhol.
1126
01:07:34,888 --> 01:07:37,791
You found it to be very spontaneous,
didn't you?
1127
01:07:37,891 --> 01:07:40,894
Yeah, it's great. It's such a great thing.
1128
01:07:44,932 --> 01:07:46,800
What more can you say?
1129
01:07:46,900 --> 01:07:48,068
Well...
1130
01:07:48,502 --> 01:07:53,106
Andy Warhol is using
my Graphicraft paint program
1131
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:58,211
to modify a digitised image
of Deborah Harry that he just got
1132
01:07:58,312 --> 01:08:00,814
into the Amiga computer,
1133
01:08:00,914 --> 01:08:05,652
and we had rehearsed with Andy Warhol
who was an artist.
1134
01:08:05,752 --> 01:08:08,355
He's not an engineer
and he's not a logical guy.
1135
01:08:08,488 --> 01:08:11,224
And so you can give him
logical instructions,
1136
01:08:11,325 --> 01:08:14,561
but he was an artist,
he wasn't an engineer.
1137
01:08:14,695 --> 01:08:16,763
And so we told him,
"You can do this, but don't do that.
1138
01:08:16,897 --> 01:08:18,098
"And do this and don't do that."
1139
01:08:18,231 --> 01:08:20,267
And he said,
"Yeah, yeah. I got it, I got it."
1140
01:08:20,367 --> 01:08:22,936
But he wasn't getting it.
And then, he was...
1141
01:08:23,070 --> 01:08:24,738
And he gets up on stage
1142
01:08:24,871 --> 01:08:29,743
and he starts playing with Graphicraft
like some crazy monkey,
1143
01:08:29,876 --> 01:08:32,512
when we know that the thing is so fragile,
1144
01:08:32,646 --> 01:08:35,882
and the hardware's just barely
holding it together.
1145
01:08:35,983 --> 01:08:39,519
And the one thing
that was a disaster was flood fill.
1146
01:08:39,653 --> 01:08:43,523
That the flood fill wasn't working correctly
in the hardware. It would leak.
1147
01:08:43,657 --> 01:08:46,994
And if you clicked in the wrong place
and made it flood fill the wrong way,
1148
01:08:47,127 --> 01:08:50,330
it would leak and fill the entire thing,
and wipe out your entire image.
1149
01:08:50,464 --> 01:08:53,934
And so we told him, "Whatever you do,
don't touch the flood fill."
1150
01:08:54,067 --> 01:08:56,603
So the first thing the guy reaches for
is the flood fill.
1151
01:08:56,737 --> 01:08:59,106
And he's all, like...
click, click, clickety-click...
1152
01:09:03,276 --> 01:09:05,345
And you gotta see, Jack's face is...
1153
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,615
Oh, God, it's just so awesome!
He's filled with this horror.
1154
01:09:08,749 --> 01:09:11,985
It's going down! It's going down!
1155
01:09:12,119 --> 01:09:13,887
And he clicked on it
and he created the flood fill.
1156
01:09:13,987 --> 01:09:16,757
And I think all of us that
were on the engineering team,
1157
01:09:16,890 --> 01:09:18,191
sitting in the audience, were like,
1158
01:09:18,325 --> 01:09:20,827
"No! What's gonna happen now?"
1159
01:09:20,961 --> 01:09:22,829
And we saw that flood fill
and it kind of filled in.
1160
01:09:22,963 --> 01:09:24,097
You watched it progress,
1161
01:09:24,197 --> 01:09:26,967
and you thought it'd get to the end
and then there'd be a guru meditation,
1162
01:09:27,100 --> 01:09:28,969
the machine would've crashed.
1163
01:09:29,102 --> 01:09:32,506
But, no, it didn't.
It made it through and it was all...
1164
01:09:32,606 --> 01:09:35,242
And we were relieved by that.
1165
01:09:35,375 --> 01:09:38,045
The immediate reaction
after the launch was phenomenal.
1166
01:09:38,178 --> 01:09:40,247
The kinds of words that, you know,
you just...
1167
01:09:40,380 --> 01:09:42,616
You'd write for yourself
if you wanted to write them
1168
01:09:42,749 --> 01:09:44,051
to describe something phenomenal.
1169
01:09:44,184 --> 01:09:46,453
They responded very much
like people do to video games.
1170
01:09:46,586 --> 01:09:49,156
"Why have the graphics gotten better?
Why has the sound has gotten better?"
1171
01:09:49,256 --> 01:09:52,259
Because you respond to it
with your ears, with your eyes.
1172
01:09:52,392 --> 01:09:55,562
The tactofeel we now have
in game controllers and things as well,
1173
01:09:55,662 --> 01:09:57,564
with feedback, that's all a part of it.
1174
01:09:57,664 --> 01:10:00,634
Because as human beings,
that's what we respond to.
1175
01:10:00,767 --> 01:10:04,805
And we knocked their socks off,
absolutely knocked their socks off.
1176
01:10:10,343 --> 01:10:14,681
'Re-experience the mind unbounded.
1177
01:10:18,952 --> 01:10:23,356
'Amiga, the first personal computer
that gives you a creative edge.'
1178
01:10:23,523 --> 01:10:26,993
There used to be this massive,
massive disparity between the games
1179
01:10:27,094 --> 01:10:29,362
that we could play at home
and the kind of technology,
1180
01:10:29,463 --> 01:10:32,399
and the quality experience
you could get in the arcades.
1181
01:10:32,499 --> 01:10:34,000
And that was always really evident
1182
01:10:34,101 --> 01:10:38,472
when you would see, like, the Spectrum
or the Commodore 64 adaptations,
1183
01:10:38,605 --> 01:10:40,273
the conversions of those coin-op games.
1184
01:10:40,407 --> 01:10:42,109
I think Operation Wolf
was one that I remember.
1185
01:10:42,242 --> 01:10:44,478
It had the gun.
The graphics were actually really cool.
1186
01:10:44,611 --> 01:10:46,880
Then you'd come home and play it
on your 64 or your Spectrum,
1187
01:10:47,013 --> 01:10:48,215
and it was just nothing like it.
1188
01:10:48,315 --> 01:10:51,718
I mean, it wasn't anything
like Operation Wolf in anything but name.
1189
01:10:51,852 --> 01:10:53,386
And that was always
kind of depressing.
1190
01:10:53,487 --> 01:10:56,623
What I think is actually really interesting
about the Amiga generation is,
1191
01:10:56,723 --> 01:10:59,292
I think that was the first time
that we really started to close that gap.
1192
01:10:59,426 --> 01:11:01,027
By the time the Amiga came out,
1193
01:11:01,128 --> 01:11:04,531
there were already
coin-operated arcade machines
1194
01:11:04,664 --> 01:11:08,001
also using the Motorola MC68000.
1195
01:11:08,101 --> 01:11:10,337
And you could see in the arcades
what you could do
1196
01:11:10,470 --> 01:11:12,906
when you spent $5,000
or $10,000 on hardware
1197
01:11:13,039 --> 01:11:15,242
and built out a really fabulous game.
1198
01:11:15,342 --> 01:11:17,911
And I'm thinking about games at that time
like Marble Madness.
1199
01:11:18,044 --> 01:11:21,615
Of course, we later licensed Marble
Madness and brought it to the Amiga.
1200
01:11:21,715 --> 01:11:23,517
That's the kind of thing
that became possible.
1201
01:11:23,650 --> 01:11:27,954
Suddenly, you could do things at home
that were pretty mind-boggling.
1202
01:11:28,088 --> 01:11:31,558
When I saw Marble Madness
for the first time on the Amiga,
1203
01:11:31,691 --> 01:11:37,097
it was shocking, and it was shocking
because, as far as I can recall,
1204
01:11:37,230 --> 01:11:41,968
it was the first time that a video game
on a home computer,
1205
01:11:43,136 --> 01:11:46,907
pixel for pixel,
replicated an arcade game.
1206
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:49,709
(Cambridge) It was the arcade version.
There is no difference.
1207
01:11:49,843 --> 01:11:52,145
There might be very slight differences,
1208
01:11:52,279 --> 01:11:56,683
but the quality of that Amiga version
was so fantastic at the time.
1209
01:11:56,783 --> 01:11:58,151
It looked like an arcade game.
1210
01:11:58,285 --> 01:12:00,520
And that was the big excitement.
You wanted that.
1211
01:12:00,654 --> 01:12:02,989
I just loved its clean clarity.
1212
01:12:03,123 --> 01:12:05,692
Marble Madness was
well-suited to the Amiga,
1213
01:12:05,792 --> 01:12:08,528
because it scrolled these playfields.
1214
01:12:08,662 --> 01:12:14,401
The background as the marble was rolling
was a perfect operation for the chips.
1215
01:12:14,534 --> 01:12:17,737
So I think what the Amiga
really did as a computer was
1216
01:12:17,871 --> 01:12:20,540
it sort of took the blinders off
game developers
1217
01:12:21,141 --> 01:12:23,944
and it allowed us to start creating
more immersive experiences
1218
01:12:24,077 --> 01:12:26,313
with better graphics and better sounds.
1219
01:12:26,413 --> 01:12:30,016
And it opened up the potential audience
to a much larger group of people
1220
01:12:30,150 --> 01:12:33,153
that were looking for something,
you know, a bit more entertaining
1221
01:12:33,286 --> 01:12:36,223
than what they were getting
from the 8-bit computers.
1222
01:12:44,397 --> 01:12:46,700
(Ahmad) The first time I saw
Defender of the Crown,
1223
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:50,737
I had to ask the guy behind the counter to
show me that it was actually running code.
1224
01:12:50,837 --> 01:12:53,340
He said, "Have a go."
"OK."
1225
01:12:55,342 --> 01:12:57,711
"Oh. My. God."
1226
01:12:57,811 --> 01:13:00,580
I still remember playing the jousting.
The jousting was great.
1227
01:13:00,714 --> 01:13:04,150
It was like you were...
You were in a movie.
1228
01:13:05,018 --> 01:13:07,187
And yes, a pixelated movie, but still.
1229
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:10,790
Compared to the games you'd been playing
only maybe a year or two before that,
1230
01:13:10,924 --> 01:13:13,059
the graphical fidelity was astonishing.
1231
01:13:13,193 --> 01:13:16,563
Bob Jacob at Cinemaware
absolutely loved movies,
1232
01:13:16,663 --> 01:13:18,665
and that's why he started the company.
1233
01:13:18,798 --> 01:13:23,436
He had a real passion for storytelling
and for creating immersive environments,
1234
01:13:23,570 --> 01:13:26,006
and the Amiga allowed him to do that.
1235
01:13:26,139 --> 01:13:31,978
It gave you this cinema experience
where you just didn't play a game,
1236
01:13:32,078 --> 01:13:33,680
but between the levels,
1237
01:13:33,813 --> 01:13:38,418
you'd see cutscenes where you, the hero,
was getting together with a woman,
1238
01:13:38,551 --> 01:13:42,155
or you, the hero, was demanding
justice from the bad guys.
1239
01:13:42,255 --> 01:13:45,825
We were able to do cutscenes
that had actual animation.
1240
01:13:45,959 --> 01:13:51,031
So when you rescue the princess
and you have the sword fighting scene,
1241
01:13:51,164 --> 01:13:56,236
you can have a cutscene at the end
where you have shadows on the wall,
1242
01:13:56,369 --> 01:13:59,205
and the hero embraces the princess,
1243
01:13:59,306 --> 01:14:02,008
and we could let your imagination
run wild with that.
1244
01:14:02,108 --> 01:14:07,414
And it was a game that brought you in
in a way that no other game had done before.
1245
01:14:07,514 --> 01:14:09,916
And the game design itself was good.
1246
01:14:10,050 --> 01:14:14,788
But there was this artist, Jim Sachs,
who was the art lead on that project,
1247
01:14:14,888 --> 01:14:17,290
and it was his magic
1248
01:14:17,424 --> 01:14:20,994
that turned that game
from a commonplace experience
1249
01:14:21,094 --> 01:14:23,296
into something like
no one had ever seen before.
1250
01:14:23,430 --> 01:14:27,467
Jim Sachs, I can say without
any hesitation, was a genius.
1251
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:30,470
And Defender of the Crown
would not have been a success
1252
01:14:30,603 --> 01:14:32,305
if it hadn't been for Jim Sachs.
1253
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:34,841
When I started doing the graphics
for Defender of the Crown,
1254
01:14:34,941 --> 01:14:37,110
the tools were extremely primitive.
1255
01:14:37,243 --> 01:14:40,013
It was still Graphicraft and Aegis Images.
1256
01:14:40,113 --> 01:14:42,916
So I was drawing castles
one dot at a time.
1257
01:14:43,049 --> 01:14:48,621
I'd do a sketch on paper, or I'd see
magazine articles about castles.
1258
01:14:48,722 --> 01:14:50,256
And I'd have that picture
1259
01:14:50,357 --> 01:14:52,559
and then do something like that
on the screen,
1260
01:14:52,692 --> 01:14:54,027
literally one dot at a time.
1261
01:14:54,127 --> 01:14:59,966
And put about five or six dots together
and that forms a block of stone.
1262
01:15:00,066 --> 01:15:04,037
And then, at that point,
you could clip out groups of pixels
1263
01:15:04,137 --> 01:15:06,573
and stamp them in as brushes.
1264
01:15:06,706 --> 01:15:09,142
So I was doing that.
Stone after stone after stone.
1265
01:15:09,275 --> 01:15:10,977
Finally, you have one tower,
1266
01:15:11,111 --> 01:15:14,581
and then draw the grass
and everything growing up to that.
1267
01:15:14,714 --> 01:15:16,116
Very time-consuming.
1268
01:15:16,249 --> 01:15:18,985
And after about probably two weeks,
1269
01:15:19,119 --> 01:15:22,122
I had drawn the first castle on a hill
and turned that in.
1270
01:15:22,255 --> 01:15:23,857
And it just blew them away, of course.
1271
01:15:23,957 --> 01:15:27,794
You know, it was just so much different
than anything else that they had seen.
1272
01:15:27,927 --> 01:15:31,464
So then, they could get an idea of what
the whole game was gonna look like,
1273
01:15:31,564 --> 01:15:33,666
and started to get really excited
about the whole thing.
1274
01:15:33,767 --> 01:15:37,370
The design itself reached for
1275
01:15:37,504 --> 01:15:42,709
the kind of softer entertainment
experience that is commonplace today.
1276
01:15:42,809 --> 01:15:48,114
Everyone's comfortable with the fact that
software does that movie thing that it does.
1277
01:15:48,214 --> 01:15:51,184
But Defender of the Crown,
the Cinemaware title,
1278
01:15:51,317 --> 01:15:54,687
was one of the first
that made that a reality
1279
01:15:54,788 --> 01:15:57,690
where you were no longer
just playing a game.
1280
01:15:57,791 --> 01:15:59,592
Because it demonstrated
not just graphically,
1281
01:15:59,726 --> 01:16:03,530
visually, this was a quantum leap
beyond anything we had seen in 8-bit.
1282
01:16:03,630 --> 01:16:05,031
It was certainly that.
1283
01:16:05,165 --> 01:16:08,234
But it was the kind of game
that just wasn't even possible.
1284
01:16:08,368 --> 01:16:11,971
There was nothing quite like
Defender of the Crown before it came out.
1285
01:16:12,105 --> 01:16:15,575
And it was definitely a signal
for where video games could go.
1286
01:16:15,708 --> 01:16:18,578
I didn't think all video games
would take that route,
1287
01:16:18,711 --> 01:16:22,549
but in terms of production values
and the ability to draw in people
1288
01:16:22,649 --> 01:16:26,453
who otherwise haven't been
interested in video games before.
1289
01:16:26,586 --> 01:16:30,723
The idea that a video game could be
a mass market activity and not just a niche,
1290
01:16:30,824 --> 01:16:33,259
I think Defender of the Crown was,
if not the first,
1291
01:16:33,393 --> 01:16:35,261
then one of the very first to signal that.
1292
01:16:48,975 --> 01:16:52,345
When the Amiga 1000
came off the manufacturing line,
1293
01:16:52,846 --> 01:16:56,983
most of us were...
"Amazed" is the wrong word.
1294
01:16:57,083 --> 01:16:59,385
"Distressed" was a better word,
1295
01:16:59,486 --> 01:17:03,456
at what appeared to be
wholly inadequate marketing
1296
01:17:03,590 --> 01:17:04,991
on the part of Commodore.
1297
01:17:05,091 --> 01:17:08,962
They didn't really have a good focus,
and I think part of that was the fact that
1298
01:17:09,062 --> 01:17:12,165
the Amiga computer was so capable
of doing almost anything.
1299
01:17:12,265 --> 01:17:17,303
Unfortunately, with the loss of the leadership
of Jack Tramiel that very same year,
1300
01:17:17,437 --> 01:17:21,040
Commodore was a little bit lost
as to what direction to take.
1301
01:17:21,174 --> 01:17:24,777
Their actions basically said,
"We don't understand what we got here."
1302
01:17:24,878 --> 01:17:28,481
They were shipping containerloads
of Commodore 64s.
1303
01:17:28,615 --> 01:17:31,718
They were shipping high volume
to these mass merchants.
1304
01:17:31,851 --> 01:17:37,190
And then all of a sudden, along comes
a good buy in buying the Amiga technology,
1305
01:17:37,290 --> 01:17:40,894
because somebody had the vision
to go after the Macintosh business
1306
01:17:41,027 --> 01:17:44,330
and the business side of the channels,
1307
01:17:44,464 --> 01:17:48,134
but nobody in the company
really had the experience.
1308
01:17:48,268 --> 01:17:51,905
They just didn't know how to market
any longer a computer like this
1309
01:17:52,038 --> 01:17:54,140
to that computer-based trait.
1310
01:17:54,274 --> 01:17:57,043
They really only understood
a no-mass market.
1311
01:17:57,143 --> 01:18:01,247
And the other part of it is that they yanked
the development, a support,
1312
01:18:01,347 --> 01:18:03,116
that had to be out there
in order to get software,
1313
01:18:03,249 --> 01:18:05,018
a meaningful software, done in this thing.
1314
01:18:05,118 --> 01:18:07,654
They were so used
to the software community
1315
01:18:07,754 --> 01:18:13,159
going and fulfilling the Commodore 64
gaming and productivity software,
1316
01:18:13,293 --> 01:18:16,229
that they never really programmed them
for the conformity
1317
01:18:16,329 --> 01:18:18,498
of dealing with the Amiga technology.
1318
01:18:18,631 --> 01:18:21,034
Commodore 64 software
was a grass-roots effort.
1319
01:18:22,035 --> 01:18:25,271
Software developers out in the field
went and did what they wanted to do.
1320
01:18:25,371 --> 01:18:27,373
Sometimes without the help
of Commodore.
1321
01:18:27,507 --> 01:18:29,075
Wasn't that easy to do on the Amiga.
1322
01:18:29,175 --> 01:18:31,044
You needed the books.
You needed some training.
1323
01:18:31,144 --> 01:18:33,646
You needed some support
back from the company.
1324
01:18:33,746 --> 01:18:35,548
And Commodore didn't provide it.
1325
01:18:35,682 --> 01:18:39,986
Almost all the first-line software
that came out of that machine
1326
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:45,191
was written by internal Amiga guys
who just basically sat down and wrote it.
1327
01:18:45,892 --> 01:18:48,127
Because they understood
we had to have these applications,
1328
01:18:48,261 --> 01:18:50,964
otherwise we had a nice demo,
but that was it.
1329
01:18:51,097 --> 01:18:54,133
We travelled around to 30 cities,
launching the Amiga.
1330
01:18:54,267 --> 01:18:56,603
And we had everybody ready for it.
1331
01:18:56,736 --> 01:18:57,870
But then, when we went home,
1332
01:18:57,971 --> 01:19:01,774
we found out they had already had
a conversation with Kmart
1333
01:19:01,908 --> 01:19:05,178
and Wal-Mart and some of these other guys
who were just used to selling numbers,
1334
01:19:05,311 --> 01:19:10,216
and they could care less about support for
the people who wanted to do productivity.
1335
01:19:10,350 --> 01:19:12,785
They just wanted to sell tons of games.
1336
01:19:13,219 --> 01:19:15,355
But again, that's all they knew.
1337
01:19:15,488 --> 01:19:17,991
Their experience had said,
"Hey, we'll get started,
1338
01:19:18,124 --> 01:19:19,826
"and then we'll take it to the mass market,
1339
01:19:19,959 --> 01:19:22,395
"and we'll have another Commodore 64
on our hands."
1340
01:19:23,296 --> 01:19:25,198
It isn't a Commodore 64.
1341
01:19:25,331 --> 01:19:29,769
So, you know, to market it like that,
I mean, you just flunked Marketing 101.
1342
01:19:30,303 --> 01:19:32,905
And that's where we got lost.
1343
01:19:33,006 --> 01:19:35,308
We had no way to sell that product.
1344
01:19:35,408 --> 01:19:39,379
All we had to do was
give it to the mass merchant,
1345
01:19:39,512 --> 01:19:42,315
and the mass merchant would end up
sending back the product
1346
01:19:42,415 --> 01:19:45,852
when the customer returned it to them,
because they didn't know how to boot it up.
1347
01:19:45,985 --> 01:19:49,322
(Pleasance) The ethos of Commodore,
it never had a plan,
1348
01:19:49,422 --> 01:19:52,392
so therefore, it never questioned
what was happening.
1349
01:19:52,525 --> 01:19:55,595
They stumbled from crisis
to crisis to crisis,
1350
01:19:55,728 --> 01:19:58,464
and just firefighting more time
than they were in planning.
1351
01:19:58,631 --> 01:20:01,367
After the West Coast guys
left Commodore,
1352
01:20:01,467 --> 01:20:03,636
Commodore had to turn
to their own internal engineers
1353
01:20:03,770 --> 01:20:06,372
to continue development
of the Amiga system.
1354
01:20:06,472 --> 01:20:10,009
And so, what they said was,
"We're gonna go both ways.
1355
01:20:10,143 --> 01:20:14,480
"We're gonna have an Amiga computer
that's really aimed for business.
1356
01:20:14,614 --> 01:20:18,851
"It's gonna be very high-end,
even higher-end than the Amiga 1000 was.
1357
01:20:18,985 --> 01:20:21,788
"And we're also gonna do
a lower-end Amiga
1358
01:20:21,888 --> 01:20:24,357
"that's gonna be
a Commodore 64 replacement."
1359
01:20:24,891 --> 01:20:28,895
And so that's how the Amiga 500
came about and the Amiga 2000.
1360
01:20:29,629 --> 01:20:34,801
'You are about to step into a brave new world
of power, performance and productivity,
1361
01:20:34,901 --> 01:20:38,705
'made possible by the new
Commodore Amiga 500 home computer.
1362
01:20:38,838 --> 01:20:41,974
'Sit back and get set
for the ride of your life.
1363
01:20:44,510 --> 01:20:47,380
'I am the Commodore Amiga 500.'
1364
01:20:47,480 --> 01:20:50,883
(Haynie) Why do the A500?
I think the big idea there
1365
01:20:51,017 --> 01:20:54,120
was to make something
that Commodore understood better.
1366
01:20:54,253 --> 01:20:57,323
You know, Commodore was never
that good at selling higher-end systems.
1367
01:20:57,457 --> 01:21:05,031
And the A500 sort of hit the same exact
market spot that the C1 28 had.
1368
01:21:05,131 --> 01:21:08,534
You know, it was something that
a Commodore fan would recognise.
1369
01:21:08,668 --> 01:21:12,605
It was kind of what people thought
about home computers, at least in the '80s.
1370
01:21:12,705 --> 01:21:18,010
So, my recollection of the origin
of the A500 was
1371
01:21:18,111 --> 01:21:21,848
Gerard Bucas asked Jeff Porter,
George Robbins and I
1372
01:21:21,948 --> 01:21:26,753
to look at the A1 000
and see if we could cost-reduce it.
1373
01:21:26,886 --> 01:21:30,123
So we had the schematics
that Dave Needle had done,
1374
01:21:30,256 --> 01:21:34,761
and we just decided the things
that were gonna reduce the cost were
1375
01:21:34,894 --> 01:21:40,133
getting rid of the writable control store
and putting it into a singular case,
1376
01:21:40,266 --> 01:21:42,068
and having a brick power supply.
1377
01:21:42,168 --> 01:21:44,637
And we looked at the Agnus chip
in particular,
1378
01:21:44,737 --> 01:21:47,707
which ended up getting some stuff
rolled into it.
1379
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:52,445
And it was a big cost reduction.
The A1 000 case was very expensive.
1380
01:21:52,545 --> 01:21:54,247
The lack of integration,
1381
01:21:54,347 --> 01:21:58,184
all those separate chips that got
dramatically reduced with the Fat Agnus
1382
01:21:58,317 --> 01:21:59,585
reduced the cost of it.
1383
01:21:59,719 --> 01:22:03,790
It was really just, "Let's deliver
the same level of technology,
1384
01:22:03,923 --> 01:22:08,895
"but mechanically, electronically,
whatever we can, cut the cost,
1385
01:22:08,995 --> 01:22:14,066
"so that we can make something that
Commodore people know what to do with."
1386
01:22:14,167 --> 01:22:18,404
Jeff and I took that proposal
to a meeting with Jay Miner,
1387
01:22:18,538 --> 01:22:20,907
and we showed the factoring
that we wanted to do.
1388
01:22:21,007 --> 01:22:23,709
There was some debate as to whether
the clock stuff was gonna work,
1389
01:22:23,810 --> 01:22:26,379
but Jay Miner was like,
"No. That should work"' you know.
1390
01:22:26,512 --> 01:22:29,482
And it was cool meeting him.
I had never met him before.
1391
01:22:29,582 --> 01:22:32,618
He was very much professional
1392
01:22:32,752 --> 01:22:39,292
about assessing whether what we were
proposing made sense technically speaking.
1393
01:22:39,392 --> 01:22:43,396
I'd been advised that
they were producing an A500,
1394
01:22:43,529 --> 01:22:46,199
that it was going to be aimed
at the consumer market.
1395
01:22:46,332 --> 01:22:52,738
And as soon as it arrived, it definitely lived
up to all of our expectations and beyond.
1396
01:22:52,839 --> 01:22:56,309
Because the capabilities of it
were equally as good as
1397
01:22:56,409 --> 01:22:58,611
the majority of things
you could do on the 1000
1398
01:22:58,744 --> 01:23:01,781
at probably 25%
of the 1000 price at that time.
1399
01:23:01,914 --> 01:23:05,017
I'm actually very proud of that machine,
cos I think it...
1400
01:23:05,151 --> 01:23:09,021
I thought it preserved
the spirit of the Amiga
1401
01:23:09,155 --> 01:23:13,860
while making it much more available
in terms of price.
1402
01:23:13,993 --> 01:23:17,763
We were a consumer company
selling game computers,
1403
01:23:17,864 --> 01:23:21,200
and it doesn't mean that should be
the only thing Commodore was,
1404
01:23:21,334 --> 01:23:23,669
but everyone knew
that's what our strength was.
1405
01:23:23,803 --> 01:23:29,008
(Ahmad) The thing about the 500 was
that it was very clearly a realisation
1406
01:23:29,141 --> 01:23:30,776
that there is a games market,
1407
01:23:30,877 --> 01:23:34,614
and we need to put something out that
people can play games on, and that was it.
1408
01:23:35,081 --> 01:23:36,949
So it served as a great games machine,
1409
01:23:37,049 --> 01:23:38,551
and as a really good
development machine as well.
1410
01:23:38,651 --> 01:23:41,587
But I think that was a case
of Commodore realising
1411
01:23:41,687 --> 01:23:45,258
they had to directly address
the market that they created.
1412
01:24:13,819 --> 01:24:15,922
(Cutter) Using the Amiga
for the first time was a revelation.
1413
01:24:16,055 --> 01:24:17,924
It was like a veil had been lifted.
1414
01:24:18,057 --> 01:24:22,461
It not only allowed us to dream,
it allowed us to dream big.
1415
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:37,543
People who do game development
and some application development
1416
01:24:37,677 --> 01:24:39,845
can look at a PC or other machines
1417
01:24:39,946 --> 01:24:45,217
and see how much work it takes to get
the machine to do what you want it to do,
1418
01:24:45,318 --> 01:24:49,889
and how easy it is to get the Amiga
to do what you want it to do.
1419
01:24:50,022 --> 01:24:51,924
So your energy and your time
1420
01:24:52,058 --> 01:24:55,928
are not spent on tricking the machine
to produce a piece of graphics.
1421
01:24:56,062 --> 01:25:01,167
They're spent on your invention
and your art and your creativity.
1422
01:25:01,300 --> 01:25:02,635
The goal that Jay and I had
1423
01:25:02,735 --> 01:25:07,106
was to advance the state of the art
10 times beyond the competition.
1424
01:25:07,239 --> 01:25:10,676
And when you advance
the state of the art sufficiently,
1425
01:25:11,143 --> 01:25:15,281
you get into the realm where you're doing
something that people find completely new.
1426
01:25:15,381 --> 01:25:19,318
It expands their capability
to do things you can't do before
1427
01:25:19,452 --> 01:25:22,722
with 10 times more horsepower.
In some cases, even more.
1428
01:25:22,855 --> 01:25:28,194
Game developers now, who typically
might've just been writing assembly code
1429
01:25:28,327 --> 01:25:32,465
or were doing as much as they can
just to get the hardware to do stuff,
1430
01:25:32,565 --> 01:25:34,700
all of a sudden, they had a computer
1431
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:37,703
that basically would do
most of the work for them.
1432
01:25:37,803 --> 01:25:39,572
There was the graphics chips
1433
01:25:39,705 --> 01:25:42,508
that were doing the blitting
and the moving of the graphics.
1434
01:25:42,608 --> 01:25:45,878
There were sprites that would just appear
where you wanted them to appear.
1435
01:25:45,978 --> 01:25:47,079
Multi-colour sprites.
1436
01:25:47,179 --> 01:25:51,350
You could do the play field animation.
You could do play field scrolling.
1437
01:25:51,484 --> 01:25:55,755
You could do simulated 3D perspective
stuff by using differential scrolling.
1438
01:25:55,888 --> 01:26:01,694
More colours using the run-length
compression in the Hold-And-Modify.
1439
01:26:01,794 --> 01:26:05,431
A multi-channel sampled audio
instead of beeps and boops.
1440
01:26:05,564 --> 01:26:09,168
So if you're a game developer,
and you saw the opportunity
1441
01:26:09,301 --> 01:26:14,206
to do what you could with the Amiga to
advance the state of your gaming creativity,
1442
01:26:14,340 --> 01:26:16,909
all of a sudden,
this gave you a new tool.
1443
01:26:32,191 --> 01:26:36,328
So it really appealed to the creative edge.
1444
01:26:36,429 --> 01:26:38,431
That was what the Amiga was about.
1445
01:26:38,564 --> 01:26:41,200
That was actually the slogan,
that it gave you the creative edge.
1446
01:26:41,333 --> 01:26:43,869
And it really did. And it took all the people
1447
01:26:44,003 --> 01:26:48,207
that were not just bland PCers
that just want to do PC-types of stuff,
1448
01:26:48,340 --> 01:26:50,543
but it just opened up this whole new world.
1449
01:26:50,643 --> 01:26:52,978
The first time I saw it,
I was just blown away.
1450
01:26:53,079 --> 01:26:57,016
It was difficult to believe
just what a huge leap it was.
1451
01:26:57,149 --> 01:27:02,655
It just felt like you were just touching
science fiction, it was so advanced.
1452
01:27:02,788 --> 01:27:06,625
(Cooper) When it comes to the Amiga,
the world was really your oyster.
1453
01:27:06,759 --> 01:27:12,164
It widened my world, cos I thought,
"Well, we can do anything we want to do."
1454
01:27:12,264 --> 01:27:15,067
So my mind just exploded.
1455
01:27:15,201 --> 01:27:17,603
Amiga was so smooth,
you know what I mean?
1456
01:27:17,703 --> 01:27:18,871
It was like a Porsche.
1457
01:27:21,006 --> 01:27:25,411
It had Copper.
It had this amazing sound chip.
1458
01:27:25,511 --> 01:27:26,879
Beautiful colours.
1459
01:27:27,012 --> 01:27:31,083
It was very fast.
It was a better machine all round.
1460
01:27:31,717 --> 01:27:35,421
And you could tell
from the games that were coming out.
1461
01:27:35,521 --> 01:27:37,490
To me, machines are machines,
1462
01:27:37,623 --> 01:27:39,992
and all I talk about with machines
is what's wrong with them.
1463
01:27:40,493 --> 01:27:42,928
I just only ever see problems
in machines.
1464
01:27:43,062 --> 01:27:46,799
Things that they're stopping me from
doing more efficiently, that I want to do.
1465
01:27:47,233 --> 01:27:50,302
But the Amiga, actually,
of all of the machines I've worked on,
1466
01:27:50,436 --> 01:27:55,107
was the one which gave me the most of what
you wanted to deliver the most painlessly.
1467
01:27:55,241 --> 01:27:57,143
From a designer's point of view,
it was a brilliant machine.
1468
01:27:57,276 --> 01:27:59,345
It was very accessible.
1469
01:27:59,478 --> 01:28:01,514
The programmers learned
to get very, very skilful at it.
1470
01:28:01,647 --> 01:28:04,350
But they didn't struggle too much
to get up and running.
1471
01:28:04,483 --> 01:28:06,485
So, still, in those days,
1472
01:28:07,052 --> 01:28:12,091
you could spend 75% of making the game
development time on making the game,
1473
01:28:12,224 --> 01:28:17,129
and 25% on doing the structure and stuff,
the routines to make it work.
1474
01:28:17,263 --> 01:28:19,632
What the Amiga did is it inspired people
1475
01:28:19,732 --> 01:28:22,101
to explore the boundaries
of what the machine could do.
1476
01:28:22,234 --> 01:28:24,870
There was so much hardware in there,
compared to the other machines,
1477
01:28:24,970 --> 01:28:27,907
that you could play around with, and there
was so much sneaky stuff you could do.
1478
01:28:28,040 --> 01:28:29,708
There was the Hold-And-Modify mode,
1479
01:28:29,842 --> 01:28:32,878
and there was the weird modes
where it only had a 32-colour palette,
1480
01:28:32,978 --> 01:28:36,649
but you could get 32 more colours
1481
01:28:36,749 --> 01:28:38,551
that were basically
half as bright versions of that.
1482
01:28:38,684 --> 01:28:40,486
And so, it does inspire people
1483
01:28:40,586 --> 01:28:44,490
to get into the idea that they're gonna have
to explore the different corners of stuff.
1484
01:28:44,590 --> 01:28:51,063
In the beginning, if you wanted to put
bitmapped graphics onto a screen,
1485
01:28:51,163 --> 01:28:53,065
you'd have to create them,
1486
01:28:53,165 --> 01:28:56,902
you'd have to use the computer,
the computer's CPU,
1487
01:28:57,002 --> 01:29:00,105
to actually draw those pixels
onto the screen.
1488
01:29:00,206 --> 01:29:01,473
And that would take time,
1489
01:29:01,574 --> 01:29:05,010
and while the computer was doing that,
it couldn't be doing anything else.
1490
01:29:05,144 --> 01:29:08,614
And very often, in the early games,
Jet Set Willy is a good example of that,
1491
01:29:08,747 --> 01:29:11,750
nearly all of the time
that the computer was spending
1492
01:29:11,884 --> 01:29:14,486
was spent drawing pixels
onto the screen,
1493
01:29:14,587 --> 01:29:17,389
and that left very little time
for anything else.
1494
01:29:17,523 --> 01:29:19,425
What a blitter does,
1495
01:29:19,558 --> 01:29:22,928
is it says, "Hey, I'm really good at this.
I'm really fast.
1496
01:29:23,028 --> 01:29:27,299
"I can take a bunch of pixels, which
correspond to an image from one place,
1497
01:29:27,399 --> 01:29:30,336
"combine them in fancy ways
with another bunch of pixels,
1498
01:29:30,436 --> 01:29:35,608
"like a mask or a stencil from another place,
and put them onto the screen,
1499
01:29:35,741 --> 01:29:39,211
"in whatever way you want
in any number of combinations,
1500
01:29:39,345 --> 01:29:40,613
"to form a final image,
1501
01:29:40,746 --> 01:29:44,416
"and I can do this 10 times faster,
20 times faster,
1502
01:29:44,550 --> 01:29:45,818
"than the processor can do it."
1503
01:29:45,951 --> 01:29:50,356
So what that meant was, the processor
was free to do lots of other things,
1504
01:29:50,456 --> 01:29:52,658
like Al for example, like collisions,
1505
01:29:52,791 --> 01:29:58,130
and the blitter allowed you to create
an immense amount of detail in the display
1506
01:29:58,230 --> 01:30:00,366
in a fraction of the time
that it used to take.
1507
01:30:00,466 --> 01:30:04,003
And the Copper lists allowed us
to change colours,
1508
01:30:04,136 --> 01:30:08,841
and shift things left and right slightly,
and do all these crazy things.
1509
01:30:08,974 --> 01:30:11,977
And we built a lot of the games
around these effects.
1510
01:30:12,077 --> 01:30:15,948
It's like, we could scroll things
and move them
1511
01:30:16,048 --> 01:30:18,417
without even
really having to put any effort in.
1512
01:30:18,550 --> 01:30:21,687
A lot of the hardware in there
is very specifically aimed
1513
01:30:21,820 --> 01:30:26,592
at the kind of things that we as game
designers and game producers require,
1514
01:30:26,692 --> 01:30:28,661
or certainly did back in the day.
1515
01:30:28,794 --> 01:30:32,564
To try and replicate the effects that
you get in arcade machines of the day,
1516
01:30:32,665 --> 01:30:35,067
you needed very powerful
hardware scrolling.
1517
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:39,705
You needed sprite systems, ways of
moving objects in front of other objects,
1518
01:30:39,838 --> 01:30:43,409
and obscuring backgrounds and
restoring backgrounds quickly, easily,
1519
01:30:43,509 --> 01:30:46,645
and freeing up the processor to do
the main game loop, as it were.
1520
01:30:46,779 --> 01:30:51,483
So there was a lot of hardware in there
that you could see precious little use
1521
01:30:51,617 --> 01:30:54,420
for anything else other than games
or graphics demos, to be honest.
1522
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:56,388
So it was a dream machine, really,
1523
01:30:56,488 --> 01:30:59,491
because it really felt like
it had been created specifically
1524
01:30:59,625 --> 01:31:04,229
to produce the kind of games
that you saw in the arcades
1525
01:31:04,330 --> 01:31:06,098
and the kind of effects
that you saw in the arcades.
1526
01:31:06,231 --> 01:31:09,835
I think the thing that impressed me the most
about the Amiga, besides the graphics,
1527
01:31:09,935 --> 01:31:12,404
was there was an actual
operating system on it.
1528
01:31:12,504 --> 01:31:14,606
Coming from the Commodore 64,
1529
01:31:14,707 --> 01:31:17,943
where you got a little prompt and
you could type in some BASIC commands,
1530
01:31:18,077 --> 01:31:19,712
the Amiga had a real OS.
1531
01:31:19,845 --> 01:31:23,882
There were files, and you could do
a shell and all that kind of stuff.
1532
01:31:24,016 --> 01:31:26,251
To me, that was very interesting
about the Amiga.
1533
01:31:26,352 --> 01:31:28,687
I think the biggest thing of all
1534
01:31:28,821 --> 01:31:31,924
was that the Amiga had a mouse.
1535
01:31:32,858 --> 01:31:36,095
So as soon as a mouse came along,
you had the freedom
1536
01:31:36,228 --> 01:31:41,233
to make the player be able to move
wherever they wanted on screen immediately,
1537
01:31:41,333 --> 01:31:42,668
and that was a huge thing.
1538
01:31:42,768 --> 01:31:45,637
And that you had these two buttons,
1539
01:31:45,738 --> 01:31:48,874
fire, hold for scroll round.
1540
01:31:48,974 --> 01:31:52,478
And they had up, down, up, down,
so that's four inputs,
1541
01:31:52,578 --> 01:31:55,481
where we were only used
to one and the four directions.
1542
01:31:55,581 --> 01:31:57,449
That was incredibly important.
1543
01:31:57,549 --> 01:31:59,318
And it's even small things
to do with the mouse.
1544
01:31:59,451 --> 01:32:03,255
I remember the PC version
of Lemmings versus the Amiga one,
1545
01:32:03,355 --> 01:32:06,125
and for me, the Amiga one always
played much, much, much better.
1546
01:32:06,258 --> 01:32:11,764
And the real reason for that was actually
the Amiga had a hardware cursor.
1547
01:32:11,897 --> 01:32:17,269
So no matter what speed your game
ran at, which was 30 frames per second,
1548
01:32:17,369 --> 01:32:19,972
the mouse moved
at 60 frames per second.
1549
01:32:20,105 --> 01:32:21,740
And on the Amiga, that was really nice.
1550
01:32:21,874 --> 01:32:25,677
You felt like you had really fine control
for when you were clicking as well.
1551
01:32:25,778 --> 01:32:28,580
Cos it could read the click
60 times a second.
1552
01:32:28,714 --> 01:32:32,117
The PC only had software mouse control.
1553
01:32:32,217 --> 01:32:34,987
So it was only moving the mouse
at 30 frames per second
1554
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:37,990
and could only register a click
30 frames per second as well.
1555
01:32:38,123 --> 01:32:40,426
For me, those two differences
are really subtle,
1556
01:32:40,559 --> 01:32:44,530
but the fact that you could run the game at 30
frames per second but move your input at 60,
1557
01:32:44,630 --> 01:32:48,434
once again, just showed
how advanced the Amiga was.
1558
01:32:48,567 --> 01:32:50,502
And just smart things
about doing things like,
1559
01:32:50,602 --> 01:32:53,138
"We're gonna make it
so we have a hardware mouse cursor"'
1560
01:32:53,572 --> 01:32:56,542
to me, it's the small things
which just show the genius of the team.
1561
01:32:56,642 --> 01:32:59,745
There were suddenly all kinds of games
that were made possible
1562
01:32:59,845 --> 01:33:04,149
by not being restricted by just
the eight cardinal directions on a joystick.
1563
01:33:04,249 --> 01:33:06,852
The ability just to navigate
a mouse around the screen
1564
01:33:06,985 --> 01:33:09,154
just opened up all kinds of new possibilities.
1565
01:33:25,637 --> 01:33:28,607
Up until that point,
I think the transition from 8 to 16-bit
1566
01:33:28,740 --> 01:33:32,010
was the last generational leap
that we saw
1567
01:33:32,144 --> 01:33:35,380
that really allowed
new types of games to emerge.
1568
01:33:35,481 --> 01:33:38,217
Populous would not have been possible
on the Commodore 64.
1569
01:33:38,350 --> 01:33:39,885
I don't think The Secret of Monkey Island
1570
01:33:39,985 --> 01:33:41,787
would've been possible
on the Commodore 64.
1571
01:33:41,887 --> 01:33:45,691
It revolutionised the way
that graphics looked in computer games
1572
01:33:45,824 --> 01:33:47,359
overnight, literally.
1573
01:33:47,459 --> 01:33:51,964
And it gave us so many options
and so many new ways
1574
01:33:52,064 --> 01:33:56,702
to look at how you could realise
a scene in a game.
1575
01:33:56,835 --> 01:33:59,972
It opened up all kinds of avenues
1576
01:34:00,072 --> 01:34:03,008
to cinematic storytelling and cutscenes
1577
01:34:03,108 --> 01:34:09,181
and all kinds of things that we could do
in a game that you could never do before.
1578
01:34:09,281 --> 01:34:10,849
(Speaks French)
1579
01:34:10,983 --> 01:34:12,885
So it really paved the way
1580
01:34:13,018 --> 01:34:17,289
to enable beautiful graphics,
and detailed animations.
1581
01:34:17,422 --> 01:34:19,591
And therefore...
1582
01:34:20,259 --> 01:34:23,228
We could now develop richer content,
1583
01:34:23,328 --> 01:34:26,431
games that were
1584
01:34:27,533 --> 01:34:31,069
more emotionally engaging
1585
01:34:31,203 --> 01:34:36,141
and deliver a more
immersive experience.
1586
01:34:36,275 --> 01:34:39,444
(Malone) It pushed game development,
1587
01:34:39,545 --> 01:34:41,947
it gave it a rocket booster,
1588
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:45,150
it gave a nitro booster,
and pushed game development.
1589
01:34:45,284 --> 01:34:48,954
It accelerated ideas,
people wanting to work on games,
1590
01:34:49,087 --> 01:34:50,622
what you could actually do.
1591
01:34:50,722 --> 01:34:52,357
You could actually do
a lot more with a game.
1592
01:34:52,491 --> 01:34:55,827
It was such a leap in technology,
1593
01:34:55,928 --> 01:35:01,466
even today, I find anyone who slags off
the Amiga needs their head testing.
1594
01:35:01,567 --> 01:35:05,270
Because it was such a great machine.
It really was.
1595
01:35:18,517 --> 01:35:22,321
(Cuisset speaks French) The Amiga
really was a remarkable computer
1596
01:35:22,454 --> 01:35:25,657
and when I started
1597
01:35:25,757 --> 01:35:29,328
I was fascinated by action games
1598
01:35:29,461 --> 01:35:32,097
as I was by adventure games.
1599
01:35:32,197 --> 01:35:36,068
And so, to be able to tap into
1600
01:35:36,168 --> 01:35:39,972
that kind of graphics power
1601
01:35:40,072 --> 01:35:43,308
in order to tell a story
1602
01:35:43,408 --> 01:35:46,912
was always an inspiration to me,
1603
01:35:47,012 --> 01:35:50,515
to push the limits and try new things.
1604
01:35:50,749 --> 01:35:54,219
(McLaughlin) It wasn't hardship.
I did have a lot of passion for it,
1605
01:35:54,353 --> 01:35:57,356
but you weren't surviving
on passion and coffee.
1606
01:35:57,489 --> 01:35:59,825
You could actually come in
at the start of the day,
1607
01:35:59,958 --> 01:36:03,195
have some ideas in your head and
you could realise it without being stressed.
1608
01:36:03,328 --> 01:36:04,963
And that frees up...
1609
01:36:06,098 --> 01:36:09,234
Or that sort of freedom, rather,
enables you to be more creative,
1610
01:36:09,368 --> 01:36:13,972
and to push beyond just fighting against
tools and fighting against hardware.
1611
01:36:14,106 --> 01:36:16,575
You can get to where you expected
to be pretty quickly,
1612
01:36:16,708 --> 01:36:18,310
and then you can go beyond that.
1613
01:36:18,410 --> 01:36:22,614
On an Amiga, you had your mouse,
keyboard, you'd be drawing, fantastic.
1614
01:36:22,748 --> 01:36:27,452
So you've got this bigger resolution,
more colours and a palette.
1615
01:36:27,586 --> 01:36:30,722
On the 64, you had 16 colours,
that was it.
1616
01:36:30,822 --> 01:36:33,625
On an Amiga, 4,096 colours.
1617
01:36:33,759 --> 01:36:36,862
Fantastic! "What colours do I need?
I'm spoilt for choice."
1618
01:36:36,995 --> 01:36:40,232
(Hawkins) I wanted to make
as many games for the Amiga as possible.
1619
01:36:40,766 --> 01:36:43,869
And of course,
we had a lot of our own ideas for games.
1620
01:36:44,002 --> 01:36:46,938
We even went back to our development tools,
1621
01:36:47,406 --> 01:36:51,043
and our development tools
were, at that time, PC-based.
1622
01:36:51,176 --> 01:36:56,481
And we had a really nice Paintbox program
that our developers used on the PC
1623
01:36:56,615 --> 01:36:59,618
to do the graphic art
that went into the games.
1624
01:36:59,751 --> 01:37:02,821
And Tim Mott, who's a really brilliant guy
1625
01:37:02,954 --> 01:37:06,558
that ran the technology side
of Electronic Arts for nine years,
1626
01:37:06,658 --> 01:37:12,064
it was his idea that we take that Paintbox
product and turn it into a consumer product,
1627
01:37:12,197 --> 01:37:18,036
Deluxe Paint, which was easily
the most popular painting app
1628
01:37:18,170 --> 01:37:21,173
in the mid-1980s on any machine.
1629
01:37:21,273 --> 01:37:22,808
And it was very commercially successful
1630
01:37:22,908 --> 01:37:24,676
because it was just so much fun
to screw around with it,
1631
01:37:24,810 --> 01:37:28,180
even if you weren't an artist or had
no professional reason to be using it.
1632
01:37:28,780 --> 01:37:33,318
Deluxe Paint came out for the Amiga
and it absolutely changed our industry.
1633
01:37:33,452 --> 01:37:35,087
We'd never seen anything like it.
1634
01:37:35,220 --> 01:37:39,991
The idea that you could grab an area of the
screen and pick it up and use it as a brush
1635
01:37:40,092 --> 01:37:41,893
was, frankly, astounding.
1636
01:37:42,027 --> 01:37:45,030
Nothing close to that, technically,
had ever been achieved.
1637
01:37:45,130 --> 01:37:48,100
You were watching it,
not actually believing your eyes
1638
01:37:48,233 --> 01:37:51,103
that you were able to paint
with a real bitmap.
1639
01:37:51,236 --> 01:37:52,671
It was just stunning.
1640
01:37:52,804 --> 01:37:56,041
It knew that I wanted to be able
to select things, cut and paste things,
1641
01:37:56,141 --> 01:37:58,844
move them around,
change colours once I put them down.
1642
01:37:58,944 --> 01:38:01,646
DPaint and the Amiga was a real change.
1643
01:38:01,747 --> 01:38:05,550
I'm using this magical device
called a mouse. Brilliant.
1644
01:38:05,684 --> 01:38:07,052
You'd move it around the screen
and it was great.
1645
01:38:07,152 --> 01:38:08,720
You'd just click and put your colour down.
1646
01:38:08,854 --> 01:38:14,126
Yeah, so first thing I did at Bitmaps
was Amiga, DPaint, Speedball 2.
1647
01:38:14,259 --> 01:38:16,895
Deluxe Paint came out about
halfway through my development time
1648
01:38:17,028 --> 01:38:18,430
on Defender of the Crown,
1649
01:38:18,530 --> 01:38:22,534
and it was a tremendous boon
being able to do things with brushes,
1650
01:38:22,667 --> 01:38:24,736
with sweeping brushes and things like that,
1651
01:38:24,870 --> 01:38:28,440
that you couldn't do
with Graphicraft or Aegis Images.
1652
01:38:28,907 --> 01:38:34,312
You could do arcs and circles
and all kinds of interesting things.
1653
01:38:34,446 --> 01:38:38,350
You could tint, all kinds of effects
that you couldn't do before.
1654
01:38:38,483 --> 01:38:42,954
So that really speeded things up
during the development
1655
01:38:43,088 --> 01:38:44,523
and made things a lot easier.
1656
01:38:44,656 --> 01:38:46,057
One of the great things
about Deluxe Paint was,
1657
01:38:46,158 --> 01:38:48,760
it was one of the first-ever packages
that had built-in animation.
1658
01:38:48,894 --> 01:38:52,397
You could set on just a few frames,
1659
01:38:52,531 --> 01:38:54,866
make this little character animate,
1660
01:38:54,966 --> 01:38:58,603
pick it up as a brush and then just
play the animation and play the brush.
1661
01:38:58,737 --> 01:39:01,006
So that it just put down
reams of these sprites.
1662
01:39:01,139 --> 01:39:04,543
And then, cos I was bored, I drew a gun
at the other end shooting them.
1663
01:39:04,676 --> 01:39:07,813
And that's where you start going,
"Well, that's funny, there's a game in that."
1664
01:39:07,946 --> 01:39:10,081
They give you DPaint,
you can export files,
1665
01:39:10,182 --> 01:39:12,984
you can incorporate those
into programs you're coding.
1666
01:39:13,118 --> 01:39:16,188
And it accelerates the rate
of development and productivity
1667
01:39:16,321 --> 01:39:19,024
of people who want to get into the machine
to use it for something.
1668
01:39:19,157 --> 01:39:24,896
It allowed me,
who couldn't draw to save his life,
1669
01:39:24,996 --> 01:39:27,833
allowed me to do things on the screen,
1670
01:39:27,966 --> 01:39:31,603
and do them immediately,
and see the results immediately.
1671
01:39:31,736 --> 01:39:33,972
What Deluxe Paint allowed
1672
01:39:34,105 --> 01:39:37,976
was non-experts, non-computer-experts,
1673
01:39:38,109 --> 01:39:41,580
people whose primary focus
was art and not technology,
1674
01:39:41,713 --> 01:39:44,216
to enter the domain of video games creation.
1675
01:39:44,349 --> 01:39:45,951
It was a huge jump
1676
01:39:46,051 --> 01:39:49,421
moving from graphics on the Commodore 64
to graphics on the Amiga.
1677
01:39:49,554 --> 01:39:54,926
It was like we'd missed out one generation
and jumped to the next generation.
1678
01:39:55,026 --> 01:39:56,928
And it was fantastic.
1679
01:39:57,028 --> 01:39:59,264
It was a very powerful piece of software,
1680
01:39:59,397 --> 01:40:02,801
and a lot of the effects you see in
modern-day software, Photoshop and so on,
1681
01:40:02,934 --> 01:40:07,272
some of those effects
appeared first on Deluxe Paint.
1682
01:40:07,405 --> 01:40:11,176
So that just became
the ubiquitous piece of software
1683
01:40:11,276 --> 01:40:13,745
that we all used for creating our sprites.
1684
01:40:13,912 --> 01:40:15,580
I loved the graphics of the Amiga
1685
01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:18,283
for the games, for everything,
for the graphical tools,
1686
01:40:18,416 --> 01:40:23,588
but I got very caught up in the sound.
I absolutely loved the sound.
1687
01:40:23,688 --> 01:40:26,825
(Deeply resonating soundtrack)
1688
01:40:33,832 --> 01:40:35,834
(Beeping)
1689
01:40:40,605 --> 01:40:43,475
(Chahi speaks French)
You had tools to manipulate sounds,
1690
01:40:43,608 --> 01:40:45,977
to import and export sounds,
1691
01:40:46,077 --> 01:40:50,582
to assemble them, code them,
add reverb, things like that.
1692
01:40:50,682 --> 01:40:55,720
The Amiga was kind of like a studio.
1693
01:40:55,854 --> 01:40:58,223
At the most basic level,
you had sampling.
1694
01:40:58,323 --> 01:41:02,227
Before that, it had all been synthesis,
albeit quite good synthesis,
1695
01:41:02,327 --> 01:41:04,029
on, say, the Commodore 64.
1696
01:41:04,129 --> 01:41:05,230
So, the Amiga was sampling.
1697
01:41:05,330 --> 01:41:10,835
And the Amiga had four sampling voices,
with 8-bit resolution,
1698
01:41:10,936 --> 01:41:13,104
and a lot more memory, obviously.
1699
01:41:13,238 --> 01:41:16,841
So it opened up a new whole way
of creative freedom.
1700
01:41:16,942 --> 01:41:20,045
The only other alternative
to audio engineer on the Amiga
1701
01:41:20,145 --> 01:41:24,616
would be something like
the Akai S900 or S950 samplers,
1702
01:41:24,716 --> 01:41:26,351
or, of course, you had the Fairlight.
1703
01:41:26,484 --> 01:41:29,487
Both of them cost thousands of pounds
at the time.
1704
01:41:29,621 --> 01:41:33,291
So, to buy an Amiga,
you were not only saving a lot of money,
1705
01:41:33,425 --> 01:41:38,330
it was enabling you to do things
you couldn't otherwise even dream of.
1706
01:41:38,463 --> 01:41:43,335
It was really bringing professional sampling
technology into the hands of everyday users.
1707
01:41:49,341 --> 01:41:52,978
Whenever I bought a new CD, I would
always sample it from beginning to end.
1708
01:41:53,111 --> 01:41:55,580
Whenever there was
one instrument exposed...
1709
01:41:55,714 --> 01:41:59,751
"The snare drum right there is exposed.
Oh, shit, let's sample it."
1710
01:41:59,884 --> 01:42:04,522
So I would use AudioMaster to sample it,
and then I would put it in Soundtracker.
1711
01:42:04,656 --> 01:42:07,058
And I would be able to use that snare drum.
1712
01:42:07,158 --> 01:42:10,195
Just like DJs use samplers
and all this kind of stuff.
1713
01:42:24,075 --> 01:42:26,611
We would put drums
in one of the channels,
1714
01:42:26,745 --> 01:42:29,948
the bass in another channel,
the melody in the third channel,
1715
01:42:30,081 --> 01:42:35,353
and even then, you'd have a fourth channel
for sprinkles to enrich your arrangements.
1716
01:42:41,493 --> 01:42:44,429
You could not only sample drum sounds
1717
01:42:44,562 --> 01:42:47,632
and, essentially,
any instrument that you can think of,
1718
01:42:48,099 --> 01:42:49,901
but you could also sample chords.
1719
01:42:50,368 --> 01:42:54,906
So you could enhance the four channels
into more, because you would just...
1720
01:42:55,006 --> 01:42:59,310
Major chord, minor chord,
and then play that over different keys,
1721
01:42:59,411 --> 01:43:04,516
and you already have something
with one voice that sounds a lot bigger.
1722
01:43:13,625 --> 01:43:16,728
The Amiga sound chip
was solely sample-based.
1723
01:43:16,828 --> 01:43:21,066
However, you can also sample
small waveforms.
1724
01:43:21,199 --> 01:43:24,636
So, for instance, composers like
David Whittaker would do this a lot.
1725
01:43:24,769 --> 01:43:29,174
They would sample a series of square
waveforms with different widths to them
1726
01:43:29,274 --> 01:43:30,575
and then sequence them together.
1727
01:43:30,675 --> 01:43:33,611
And they could create quite rich
synthesised sounds like that.
1728
01:43:44,489 --> 01:43:48,259
What it facilitated was
not just people like Rob Hubbard,
1729
01:43:48,393 --> 01:43:50,662
who was a musician first
and a programmer second,
1730
01:43:50,795 --> 01:43:52,230
and not just people like me,
1731
01:43:52,363 --> 01:43:54,766
who is a programmer first
and a musician second.
1732
01:43:54,866 --> 01:43:56,801
But it allowed people
who weren't programmers at all,
1733
01:43:56,901 --> 01:43:58,670
had no programming ability,
1734
01:43:58,803 --> 01:44:03,374
to use an application like a tracker
to create amazing original works.
1735
01:44:03,475 --> 01:44:06,077
(Lynne) Soundtracker and ProTracker
and NoiseTracker,
1736
01:44:06,211 --> 01:44:07,912
that series of programs, came out.
1737
01:44:08,046 --> 01:44:11,449
It enabled people who weren't
really educated musicians,
1738
01:44:11,583 --> 01:44:13,985
they couldn't read notes,
couldn't read sheet music,
1739
01:44:14,085 --> 01:44:15,920
enabled them to write music.
1740
01:44:16,054 --> 01:44:18,990
Because all they had to do
was put the notes in patterns,
1741
01:44:19,090 --> 01:44:22,827
which they could understand
so much easier than sheet music.
1742
01:44:22,927 --> 01:44:26,931
So it lowered the threshold for
new people to come in and create music.
1743
01:44:27,065 --> 01:44:29,701
(Gustafsson) The Soundtracker program
from Karsten Obarski
1744
01:44:29,834 --> 01:44:32,137
was a revolutionary program for me.
1745
01:44:32,270 --> 01:44:35,073
You could actually control
the sound channels proper.
1746
01:44:35,206 --> 01:44:40,845
And do some tricks and hacks just to
make it sound bigger than it actually was.
1747
01:44:41,946 --> 01:44:45,650
Because you had
frame-by-frame control of the sounds,
1748
01:44:45,750 --> 01:44:48,620
which was pretty cool in those days.
1749
01:44:52,056 --> 01:44:56,127
With Rocket Ranger, the fist fight
against the Nazi guard was not a lot of fun.
1750
01:44:56,261 --> 01:45:00,064
But we had a sound guy,
and he stayed up late one night
1751
01:45:00,165 --> 01:45:03,635
and recorded sounds
from an old John Wayne movie,
1752
01:45:03,735 --> 01:45:05,470
digitised them
and put them into the game.
1753
01:45:05,570 --> 01:45:08,072
And all of a sudden,
you'd hit that Nazi guard
1754
01:45:08,173 --> 01:45:11,309
and you would hear something
that sounded like a John Wayne movie.
1755
01:45:11,442 --> 01:45:12,844
And it felt like you were in the movie.
1756
01:45:12,944 --> 01:45:17,048
The sound effect made that
whole sequence so much more fun to play.
1757
01:45:17,148 --> 01:45:19,150
(Punching sound effect)
1758
01:45:21,653 --> 01:45:25,323
I think this was probably
one of the key moments
1759
01:45:25,456 --> 01:45:30,395
when the music started to really lean in
as a part of the valuable content.
1760
01:45:30,528 --> 01:45:33,898
Now, music in previous games,
I'm not, by any means, saying wasn't good.
1761
01:45:33,998 --> 01:45:36,801
I used to love a lot of Commodore 64 music.
1762
01:45:36,935 --> 01:45:40,872
But what I'm saying is, on the hardware level,
it just became a point where,
1763
01:45:40,972 --> 01:45:44,576
"Wow, we've got to really put a lot
of attention on the music as well."
1764
01:45:44,709 --> 01:45:48,880
I remember Starglider. ♪ Starglider! ♪
Yeah, we're singing now, aren't we?
1765
01:45:48,980 --> 01:45:52,917
♪ Starglider...
1766
01:45:54,686 --> 01:45:57,021
I remember Starglider having that sample,
1767
01:45:57,155 --> 01:46:00,491
which actually used a huge amount
of memory, but just for that one thing.
1768
01:46:00,592 --> 01:46:02,961
But it was very cool,
very impactful at the time.
1769
01:46:03,094 --> 01:46:05,797
♪ By Rainbird...
1770
01:46:05,930 --> 01:46:09,968
Here's just another example of the extra
memory and the faster processing power
1771
01:46:10,101 --> 01:46:14,405
just allows you to make quite a leap up
in the quality of what you're doing.
1772
01:46:14,539 --> 01:46:19,978
(Lynne) It was amazing.
To us, it sounded full, powerful, varied.
1773
01:46:20,111 --> 01:46:22,380
You could do all sorts of sounds.
1774
01:46:22,513 --> 01:46:25,817
From the techno music,
blippity-blop stuff,
1775
01:46:25,950 --> 01:46:29,354
to full arrangements,
sampled guitars, everything.
1776
01:46:29,454 --> 01:46:30,755
It was amazing.
1777
01:46:30,855 --> 01:46:35,393
And so, it was an introduction
into the world of sampling.
1778
01:46:35,526 --> 01:46:40,231
And I think that's really something
that Amiga can take a lot of credit for.
1779
01:46:40,365 --> 01:46:45,570
The sampling phenomenon really,
for me at least, started with the Amiga.
1780
01:46:45,670 --> 01:46:50,241
For me, it was the dream
of realising my music
1781
01:46:50,375 --> 01:46:53,177
in the way I had it in my head.
1782
01:46:53,745 --> 01:46:57,215
That was possible finally
with the Commodore Amiga.
1783
01:47:12,997 --> 01:47:17,302
One of the interesting developments
from launching the Amiga
1784
01:47:17,435 --> 01:47:22,073
and all the marketing activities that we did
was the growth in the pirate market.
1785
01:47:22,206 --> 01:47:24,242
Well, piracy, of course,
was a major problem,
1786
01:47:24,375 --> 01:47:26,644
and it's what drove me out
of the Commodore 64 market
1787
01:47:26,778 --> 01:47:29,247
and into the Amiga initially.
1788
01:47:29,380 --> 01:47:32,250
And then it became very widespread
on the Amiga.
1789
01:47:32,383 --> 01:47:38,589
In Germany, software piracy,
was rampant, absolutely rampant.
1790
01:47:38,690 --> 01:47:41,259
And I don't know why,
but it's quite the phenomenon
1791
01:47:41,392 --> 01:47:47,065
that Germans and, I believe, Scandinavians
tend to not want to buy software.
1792
01:47:47,498 --> 01:47:49,801
And I never understood why.
1793
01:47:49,901 --> 01:47:54,706
So that means I got into pirated games
pretty big time.
1794
01:47:54,839 --> 01:47:59,610
The people who were a bit more clever,
not only pirated games,
1795
01:47:59,711 --> 01:48:04,482
but they also programmed
delicious graphical and sound intros.
1796
01:48:04,615 --> 01:48:09,087
The cracktros, originally,
were this rebellious way of proving
1797
01:48:09,220 --> 01:48:10,488
how good you were at programming
1798
01:48:10,621 --> 01:48:13,024
and how good you were
at making cool effects.
1799
01:48:13,124 --> 01:48:17,261
Which you then put right in front
of your newest pirated game.
1800
01:48:18,262 --> 01:48:21,332
So, that's how pretty much
everybody in Europe started out.
1801
01:48:24,669 --> 01:48:27,972
(Computer voice) 'This is going
to be a very, very big hit.'
1802
01:48:28,106 --> 01:48:30,742
I think they did it mostly
just because they could,
1803
01:48:30,875 --> 01:48:33,945
as a challenge to themselves
and to the other hackers that,
1804
01:48:34,078 --> 01:48:35,913
"Who can do this first?
And who can do it right?"
1805
01:48:36,047 --> 01:48:38,950
They used the Amiga a lot more
1806
01:48:39,083 --> 01:48:43,121
and much more interestingly
than the games that then followed
1807
01:48:43,254 --> 01:48:46,991
after you clicked the left mouse button
and the actual game loaded.
1808
01:48:47,125 --> 01:48:51,362
And eventually it developed into this
competitive, creative demo scene,
1809
01:48:51,496 --> 01:48:54,298
where people were actually
just saying "Screw the games.
1810
01:48:54,399 --> 01:48:57,101
"We just want to make
cool effects and cool visuals."
1811
01:48:57,201 --> 01:48:59,937
(♪ A-HA: "Take Me On")
1812
01:49:31,436 --> 01:49:33,371
♪ Talking away
1813
01:49:34,238 --> 01:49:36,607
♪ I don't know what I'm to say
1814
01:49:36,741 --> 01:49:39,577
♪ I'll say it anyway
1815
01:49:39,710 --> 01:49:42,980
♪ Today's another day to find you
1816
01:49:43,114 --> 01:49:45,783
♪ Shying away
1817
01:49:45,917 --> 01:49:48,419
♪ I'll be coming for your love, OK?
1818
01:49:48,553 --> 01:49:52,623
♪ Take on me
1819
01:49:52,757 --> 01:49:54,125
♪ Take on me
1820
01:49:54,225 --> 01:49:58,362
♪ Take me on
1821
01:49:58,463 --> 01:49:59,664
♪ Take on me
1822
01:49:59,797 --> 01:50:04,035
♪ I'll be gone
1823
01:50:04,168 --> 01:50:06,871
♪ In a day or two ♪
1824
01:50:07,004 --> 01:50:09,774
They just did amazing things
with the technology.
1825
01:50:09,874 --> 01:50:11,275
Some of the demos,
1826
01:50:11,409 --> 01:50:15,646
where you'd have spinning 3D objects
and incredible artwork in them,
1827
01:50:15,780 --> 01:50:19,550
is just an excellent creation
that these programmers were making.
1828
01:50:22,787 --> 01:50:27,892
The roots of the demo scene was
in hundreds of thousands of bedrooms
1829
01:50:28,025 --> 01:50:31,629
and the guys sitting
on their computers, making stuff.
1830
01:50:31,762 --> 01:50:34,432
And it was a wonderful thing
unlike the later video games consoles
1831
01:50:34,565 --> 01:50:37,068
that you could program them
yourself at home.
1832
01:50:37,201 --> 01:50:38,903
So it really encouraged creativity.
1833
01:50:39,036 --> 01:50:40,805
Now, whether you were inspired
1834
01:50:40,905 --> 01:50:44,208
to try and make a demo that was
a bit like another demo you'd seen,
1835
01:50:44,308 --> 01:50:46,611
or make a game that was
a bit like a game you'd seen,
1836
01:50:46,711 --> 01:50:48,312
it didn't really make a lot of difference.
1837
01:50:48,446 --> 01:50:51,449
It was the fact that it was possible
for you to do it yourself
1838
01:50:51,582 --> 01:50:53,818
and you had this source
of inspiration all around.
1839
01:50:53,918 --> 01:50:56,721
These guys out in Finland and Norway
and these guys in Scandinavia
1840
01:50:56,854 --> 01:51:00,491
were doing these insane demos that I think
were really, really pushing the envelope
1841
01:51:00,625 --> 01:51:02,627
of what the Amiga was capable of.
1842
01:51:02,727 --> 01:51:06,497
I quite often saw the Fred Fish disks.
1843
01:51:06,631 --> 01:51:11,002
They weren't so much demos, they were
more utilities and tools and all the rest of it,
1844
01:51:11,102 --> 01:51:13,404
which he used to build things
and they were great.
1845
01:51:13,504 --> 01:51:17,008
They were fantastic for learning more
about the Amiga and coding
1846
01:51:17,108 --> 01:51:18,876
and other things that you could do
1847
01:51:19,010 --> 01:51:22,680
and other aspects
to the actual computer itself.
1848
01:51:22,813 --> 01:51:27,752
Whereas, I think in Europe there was more
of a clamour for the demos and the graphics
1849
01:51:27,885 --> 01:51:30,021
and the audio, really,
and the entertainment side of it.
1850
01:51:30,454 --> 01:51:33,090
We had public domain software.
1851
01:51:33,224 --> 01:51:34,625
That was just distributed by disk.
1852
01:51:34,725 --> 01:51:37,528
We didn't have the World Wide Web.
We didn't have any of that sort of thing.
1853
01:51:37,662 --> 01:51:42,066
So, it was literally people just buying it
via mail order and getting them home.
1854
01:51:42,166 --> 01:51:46,103
The first time you ever see a picture
that you've done and submitted it,
1855
01:51:46,237 --> 01:51:48,573
and seeing it in a gallery, in a magazine,
1856
01:51:48,706 --> 01:51:51,509
that was just my proudest day.
1857
01:51:51,642 --> 01:51:54,745
So I just kept on doing it.
I couldn't get it out there enough.
1858
01:51:55,746 --> 01:52:00,151
I guess that just got noticed
and started getting people asking
1859
01:52:00,284 --> 01:52:03,354
if I could do pictures for their whatever.
1860
01:52:03,487 --> 01:52:06,524
And, in all frankness, I didn't even know
what the demo scene was back then.
1861
01:52:06,657 --> 01:52:09,060
The demo scene was a place
to be creative.
1862
01:52:09,160 --> 01:52:11,262
There was just that.
1863
01:52:11,362 --> 01:52:13,497
Creativity, that's what it was all about.
1864
01:52:13,598 --> 01:52:16,300
There's was no,
"But we have to finish this game"'
1865
01:52:16,400 --> 01:52:20,738
or, "This music has to fit
this scene in a movie"'
1866
01:52:20,871 --> 01:52:23,507
or, "It has to fit that scene in a TV show"'
1867
01:52:23,608 --> 01:52:25,810
or, "It has to fit this scene in a game."
1868
01:52:25,943 --> 01:52:27,712
It was whatever we wanted it to be.
1869
01:52:27,812 --> 01:52:32,283
The first demo, I was very much
just proving myself as a programmer
1870
01:52:32,383 --> 01:52:37,088
and trying to make a first demo
that was really well constructed.
1871
01:52:37,188 --> 01:52:40,891
I suppose one way to look at it is it's
much like graffiti art, quality graffiti art.
1872
01:52:40,992 --> 01:52:43,394
That, to me, is what it is
for the games industry.
1873
01:52:43,527 --> 01:52:46,631
That is like the graffiti artists,
but they're using demos.
1874
01:52:46,764 --> 01:52:48,366
It was absolutely stunning.
1875
01:52:48,499 --> 01:52:50,735
It was breathtaking, some of the stuff
they would come out with.
1876
01:52:50,835 --> 01:52:54,972
And yet, a lot of them weren't that bothered
about being commercially successful.
1877
01:52:55,106 --> 01:52:57,541
They wouldn't want to turn it into a game.
1878
01:52:58,109 --> 01:53:02,413
They just wanted to be known by
a funny name with an avatar or something
1879
01:53:02,546 --> 01:53:04,749
and be famous for doing that demo.
1880
01:53:04,849 --> 01:53:06,817
We called ourselves IFF,
1881
01:53:06,951 --> 01:53:11,322
which was supposed to be short
for International Fart Federation.
1882
01:53:11,422 --> 01:53:14,625
We dropped that name
after maybe half a year
1883
01:53:14,759 --> 01:53:18,529
and decided to call us Crusaders instead,
after a bit of a vote.
1884
01:53:18,629 --> 01:53:22,433
One of the big things about
the demo scene versus games is that
1885
01:53:22,566 --> 01:53:27,371
creating a demo certainly didn't have
the complexities and difficulties
1886
01:53:27,471 --> 01:53:30,875
of actually building a game that had to
stand there and not crash and anything else.
1887
01:53:31,375 --> 01:53:33,210
Most demos don't have Al,
1888
01:53:33,344 --> 01:53:36,614
they don't have considerations
about frameworks for the player
1889
01:53:36,747 --> 01:53:38,149
and everything else.
1890
01:53:38,249 --> 01:53:41,886
So, it's a completely different thing that
you're building when you're building a demo
1891
01:53:42,019 --> 01:53:43,988
and you're building a game.
1892
01:53:44,088 --> 01:53:46,057
And you have the luxury of irresponsibility.
1893
01:53:46,190 --> 01:53:48,259
They were all great sales pieces
for the Amiga.
1894
01:53:48,392 --> 01:53:51,429
If you had friends come over,
they wanted to see your Amiga,
1895
01:53:51,562 --> 01:53:52,963
you'd often not show them the games,
1896
01:53:53,064 --> 01:53:54,899
or not as much as you would
show them the demos.
1897
01:53:55,032 --> 01:53:57,435
Because they are of course completely
unencumbered by having to build
1898
01:53:57,568 --> 01:53:59,970
any kind of game or gameplay,
1899
01:54:00,071 --> 01:54:05,409
they could just go crazy with ray tracing
graphics and raster-based graphics
1900
01:54:05,509 --> 01:54:06,877
they were able to create.
1901
01:54:07,011 --> 01:54:11,515
I remember the famous scrolling messages
that were constant shout-outs
1902
01:54:11,649 --> 01:54:15,186
to various other cracking crews
around Scandinavia and Europe.
1903
01:54:15,286 --> 01:54:17,688
It was, "Hey, we send our regards
1904
01:54:17,822 --> 01:54:21,726
"to these guys, these crews,
or these groups that we like."
1905
01:54:22,226 --> 01:54:24,228
Because we exchange stuff with them
or get demos with them.
1906
01:54:24,328 --> 01:54:28,699
And we sent hate to these guys,
which made no sense at the time, really,
1907
01:54:28,833 --> 01:54:30,234
or now, when you look at it.
1908
01:54:30,334 --> 01:54:36,507
People would poke fun at each other,
but it was never anything serious.
1909
01:54:36,640 --> 01:54:42,613
It was all done in the spirit
of the demo scene, is how I like to put it.
1910
01:54:42,713 --> 01:54:46,884
The first demo I remember,
no surprise, is the Sodan demo,
1911
01:54:47,017 --> 01:54:51,822
which kind of showed a lot
of Amiga features like dual-playfield
1912
01:54:51,922 --> 01:54:55,826
and everything that was going on in
that demo and drawing lines, 3D graphics,
1913
01:54:55,926 --> 01:54:57,895
and it kind of blew me away
that they could do it,
1914
01:54:58,028 --> 01:55:00,164
because I hadn't got that far at that point,
1915
01:55:00,297 --> 01:55:03,634
and it just got me even more interested
and wanted to learn more
1916
01:55:03,734 --> 01:55:07,037
about the Amiga chipset,
so I could do those things as well.
1917
01:55:07,138 --> 01:55:12,276
Kefrens and the Rebels made
some demos that inspired me.
1918
01:55:12,743 --> 01:55:16,514
Later on it would be Scoopex
and it would be Red Sector
1919
01:55:16,647 --> 01:55:20,184
and also, especially,
Phenomena from Sweden.
1920
01:55:20,718 --> 01:55:25,322
They had some amazing programmers
and especially musicians.
1921
01:55:25,456 --> 01:55:30,995
The guys from Crionics,
working with The Silents, Denmark,
1922
01:55:31,128 --> 01:55:35,366
on Hardwired, which was also
one of those demos that once it got put up
1923
01:55:35,499 --> 01:55:39,737
kind of moved the bar
to a whole different level
1924
01:55:39,870 --> 01:55:43,808
for what people now expected
a demo to be.
1925
01:55:43,941 --> 01:55:48,712
The Budbrain Megademos, they were great
because they were very funny.
1926
01:55:48,813 --> 01:55:51,549
And there was a little bit
of a story to it as well.
1927
01:56:01,492 --> 01:56:02,760
Yo, check this out!
1928
01:56:02,893 --> 01:56:04,895
(Mimics breakbeats)
1929
01:56:11,168 --> 01:56:15,039
You know, my favourite demo of all time
is Mental Hangover by Scoopex.
1930
01:56:17,308 --> 01:56:21,645
You know, it was talking all about
drinking and being hungover,
1931
01:56:21,779 --> 01:56:24,415
and it had so much attitude, you know?
1932
01:56:24,548 --> 01:56:28,419
We were kids,
and we expressed what we felt.
1933
01:56:28,552 --> 01:56:30,521
And that's what we were feeling
at the time.
1934
01:56:30,621 --> 01:56:32,790
We weren't feeling,
"Let's go make some money."
1935
01:56:32,923 --> 01:56:38,462
It was more about party
or trying to out-program each other.
1936
01:56:38,596 --> 01:56:43,734
The demos gave me freedom to actually
explore any side of myself, in composing.
1937
01:56:43,834 --> 01:56:47,805
Because you didn't have
any strict guidelines to hold onto.
1938
01:56:47,938 --> 01:56:52,476
It was actually a great time to learn,
you know, and explore yourself.
1939
01:56:58,048 --> 01:57:02,653
I was really excited about doing music that
somebody wanted to use for something.
1940
01:57:02,786 --> 01:57:06,790
One this is to make
a cool-sounding music track,
1941
01:57:06,891 --> 01:57:11,095
but then to have that music track
put to some visual effects,
1942
01:57:11,228 --> 01:57:13,497
it makes the music sound
a lot cooler as well.
1943
01:57:13,998 --> 01:57:18,035
And it makes the visual effects look better
when you add some cool music to go with it.
1944
01:57:18,168 --> 01:57:20,871
So it's like they enrich each other.
1945
01:57:26,043 --> 01:57:28,779
You could say that there is a music style
1946
01:57:28,879 --> 01:57:31,482
that kind of is a demo-scene music style.
1947
01:57:31,615 --> 01:57:34,418
I have not really explored that scene much.
1948
01:57:34,518 --> 01:57:39,590
I was more interested in trying to see
how far I could push music
1949
01:57:39,690 --> 01:57:42,393
and mood,
and to what extremes I could push it.
1950
01:57:42,493 --> 01:57:46,664
And I think that's what I take out
and take with me to this day,
1951
01:57:46,797 --> 01:57:50,501
it's that sense of wanting to always
1952
01:57:50,634 --> 01:57:54,305
try to create something you haven't
necessarily heard or try to innovate.
1953
01:57:54,438 --> 01:57:56,507
And do it as best I can.
1954
01:57:58,108 --> 01:57:59,810
'Take four red capsules.
1955
01:57:59,910 --> 01:58:01,845
'In 10 minutes, take two more.'
1956
01:58:03,347 --> 01:58:06,850
The next step for me was
something called the demo party.
1957
01:58:07,318 --> 01:58:10,087
It was also called the copy party,
1958
01:58:10,220 --> 01:58:13,257
because people went there to share
demos and share stuff that they had,
1959
01:58:13,357 --> 01:58:17,528
and also, let's be honest,
they went to copy games.
1960
01:58:17,661 --> 01:58:20,864
You basically rented a classroom
or two in schools,
1961
01:58:20,965 --> 01:58:24,301
and it evolved from there, really,
it got bigger and bigger, obviously.
1962
01:58:24,735 --> 01:58:27,938
But at that time, that was it, and it was
just Commodore Amigas everywhere.
1963
01:58:28,072 --> 01:58:33,877
The smell, the pungent smell,
almost like a mist in there.
1964
01:58:33,978 --> 01:58:39,683
It was like sweat and agony, and
it's just rows of computers everywhere.
1965
01:58:39,783 --> 01:58:44,688
We'd bring our sleeping bags and stay over
maybe something like Saturday to Sunday.
1966
01:58:44,788 --> 01:58:46,557
There would be hundreds of people there.
1967
01:58:46,690 --> 01:58:49,960
All swapping disks,
copying each other's stuff.
1968
01:58:50,094 --> 01:58:54,264
This was a way for people
that had been sending disks
1969
01:58:54,365 --> 01:58:57,167
and stuff like that
to actually meet in person.
1970
01:58:57,301 --> 01:59:00,137
And hang out, create stuff together.
1971
01:59:00,270 --> 01:59:03,507
I remember the very first demo party
that we went to.
1972
01:59:03,607 --> 01:59:05,175
We called it a copy party at the time.
1973
01:59:05,309 --> 01:59:09,947
There were, I don't know,
300, 400, 500 youths in a school.
1974
01:59:10,981 --> 01:59:14,551
And the police showed up
and there was total panic,
1975
01:59:14,685 --> 01:59:16,220
there were people jumping out windows.
1976
01:59:16,720 --> 01:59:18,155
Throwing disks out windows.
1977
01:59:18,789 --> 01:59:21,158
Crushing floppy disks with their feet.
1978
01:59:21,291 --> 01:59:23,827
Trying to destroy evidence
of copying and stuff.
1979
01:59:23,961 --> 01:59:28,165
We were at one of my parties.
Suddenly the cops... Two cops show up.
1980
01:59:28,799 --> 01:59:33,203
And they say, "We hear you guys
have cracked games here and stuff."
1981
01:59:33,337 --> 01:59:35,806
And you know, the latest games
and stuff like that.
1982
01:59:35,939 --> 01:59:38,008
We're like, "It might be possible."
1983
01:59:38,542 --> 01:59:41,111
They said, "So if I give you five disks,
1984
01:59:41,211 --> 01:59:44,181
"can you put some of the latest games
on there for me?"
1985
01:59:44,314 --> 01:59:46,784
I go, "I don't know, sure."
1986
01:59:46,917 --> 01:59:52,056
So the cop hands me a pack of disks
and says, "I'll be back in two hours.
1987
01:59:52,189 --> 01:59:55,159
"I'd be grateful if you had some of
the latest games for my son on them."
1988
01:59:55,259 --> 01:59:58,162
Police still came and closed down
a lot of these parties.
1989
01:59:58,262 --> 02:00:00,931
What can you do, you know?
1990
02:00:01,031 --> 02:00:06,437
But that was the nature of it,
there was something a little bit...
1991
02:00:06,570 --> 02:00:09,239
crazy about it,
and we weren't supposed to do it,
1992
02:00:09,373 --> 02:00:12,543
and we were often told that
these things could be shut down
1993
02:00:12,643 --> 02:00:15,979
by the police, and you know, don't worry,
just if it happens, it happens.
1994
02:00:16,080 --> 02:00:19,650
Somebody took a dump
in some other guy's sleeping bag.
1995
02:00:19,783 --> 02:00:22,086
He got scrubbed down. Oh, my God.
1996
02:00:29,293 --> 02:00:32,563
(Liljegren) There was definitely a big
competitive aspect to the demo scene.
1997
02:00:32,663 --> 02:00:36,366
I mean, the demo parties always had
a demo competition at the very end of it,
1998
02:00:36,800 --> 02:00:38,836
where people showed off
the latest stuff
1999
02:00:38,969 --> 02:00:40,604
that they'd been working on
for months.
2000
02:00:40,704 --> 02:00:44,842
Being number one, being most revered
was very much sought after.
2001
02:00:44,975 --> 02:00:47,578
(Hellewell) Every group
wanted to be number one.
2002
02:00:47,678 --> 02:00:50,914
People would fill in a voting form,
send it to an address,
2003
02:00:51,048 --> 02:00:52,983
all of the information was collated,
2004
02:00:53,083 --> 02:00:56,687
and the results were published
in the form of a demo
2005
02:00:56,820 --> 02:01:00,991
every month or two months, and
this was called the Crusaders Eurochart.
2006
02:01:01,091 --> 02:01:02,593
This was the spirit of the demo scene.
2007
02:01:02,693 --> 02:01:05,329
Always trying to outdo each other,
always trying to innovate.
2008
02:01:05,462 --> 02:01:06,797
Always trying to push things forward.
2009
02:01:06,897 --> 02:01:09,800
The technical achievements
these guys could accomplish
2010
02:01:09,900 --> 02:01:11,935
were like, "How do they do that?"
2011
02:01:12,069 --> 02:01:17,141
Because we're developers, and how do
we incorporate those effects into a game?
2012
02:01:17,274 --> 02:01:18,742
Can we use those effects in a game?
2013
02:01:18,876 --> 02:01:21,245
So I think there was an element
of experimentation
2014
02:01:21,345 --> 02:01:23,747
that these guys did to push the hardware
2015
02:01:23,881 --> 02:01:26,216
to show other people what you could do.
2016
02:01:27,151 --> 02:01:31,088
I think the games industry was improved
by the demo scene
2017
02:01:31,221 --> 02:01:33,891
for the simple reason that
you did see a lot of effects,
2018
02:01:34,024 --> 02:01:36,160
and you see a lot of techniques
2019
02:01:36,293 --> 02:01:39,129
that you probably wouldn't
have come up with,
2020
02:01:39,263 --> 02:01:41,532
unless you got inspired
from someone else doing it.
2021
02:01:42,065 --> 02:01:47,437
It's an interesting point to go back
and think about that era
2022
02:01:47,538 --> 02:01:49,540
in gaming history, that Amiga era,
2023
02:01:49,673 --> 02:01:52,342
in that it did feel very, very provincial.
2024
02:01:52,843 --> 02:01:56,346
And there was a very big difference
between what was happening in the UK
2025
02:01:56,480 --> 02:02:00,050
and in Europe, and what was
happening over in the USA.
2026
02:02:00,150 --> 02:02:02,886
And by the time we had
transitioned onto the Amiga,
2027
02:02:02,986 --> 02:02:05,722
America had really become
much more interested
2028
02:02:05,856 --> 02:02:09,660
in the Super Nintendo
and the Sega Mega Drive.
2029
02:02:09,760 --> 02:02:11,261
Talk to an American and ask them,
2030
02:02:11,361 --> 02:02:13,697
"What do you remember
about the 16-bit era?"
2031
02:02:13,797 --> 02:02:15,666
And they will say,
"I remember the Sega Genesis"'
2032
02:02:15,766 --> 02:02:17,301
"I remember the Super Nintendo."
2033
02:02:17,401 --> 02:02:20,537
If you ask a Brit what they remember
of the 16-bit era,
2034
02:02:20,671 --> 02:02:24,074
they will talk to you about
the Commodore Amiga and the Atari ST.
2035
02:02:24,174 --> 02:02:28,078
So we had these two completely
different versions of the 16-bit era
2036
02:02:28,178 --> 02:02:29,580
on either side of the Atlantic.
2037
02:02:29,713 --> 02:02:33,584
And that's part of why, I think, so many of us,
especially in Europe and in the UK,
2038
02:02:33,717 --> 02:02:36,153
romanticise the Amiga generation.
2039
02:02:36,286 --> 02:02:40,023
It's because it was the last time
that the games and the community
2040
02:02:40,157 --> 02:02:42,159
felt unique to us,
2041
02:02:42,292 --> 02:02:45,229
and before the global explosion
of gaming popularity
2042
02:02:45,362 --> 02:02:47,998
kind of brought everyone into the mix.
2043
02:03:14,057 --> 02:03:16,193
When the Amiga 1000 came out...
2044
02:03:17,561 --> 02:03:19,429
Let me put it this way,
2045
02:03:20,864 --> 02:03:26,336
that's about the biggest surprise
I have ever had in my entire career
2046
02:03:26,436 --> 02:03:28,071
in one single system.
2047
02:03:28,205 --> 02:03:30,607
It changed so many things all at once.
2048
02:03:30,741 --> 02:03:34,044
I mean, you ask somebody else,
they give you the same answer,
2049
02:03:34,177 --> 02:03:36,947
and give you five other different examples.
2050
02:03:37,581 --> 02:03:40,050
(Speaks French)
The Amiga was...
2051
02:03:40,817 --> 02:03:44,021
From my perspective,
I thought that the Amiga
2052
02:03:44,821 --> 02:03:47,758
represented a real step forward.
2053
02:03:47,858 --> 02:03:50,961
It was more revolutionary
than it was evolutionary.
2054
02:03:51,795 --> 02:03:57,034
I think it's quite simple why people
remember the Amiga so fondly even today.
2055
02:03:57,167 --> 02:03:58,969
It's because it was revolutionary.
2056
02:03:59,069 --> 02:04:02,072
When it came out, there was nothing like it.
2057
02:04:02,205 --> 02:04:05,776
It wasn't a small step
for the computer generation,
2058
02:04:05,876 --> 02:04:07,444
it was a massive step.
2059
02:04:07,577 --> 02:04:09,446
This was the last machine
2060
02:04:09,579 --> 02:04:13,016
which had complicated hardware,
but it was understandable.
2061
02:04:13,116 --> 02:04:15,686
And it was documented to a level
where you could get down
2062
02:04:15,819 --> 02:04:18,255
to the individual bits of hardware.
2063
02:04:18,388 --> 02:04:21,725
You could know everything
about that machine.
2064
02:04:21,858 --> 02:04:24,428
And it trained
a whole generation of people.
2065
02:04:24,528 --> 02:04:27,864
I don't think the entire computer
industry would have evolved
2066
02:04:27,998 --> 02:04:29,900
in quite the way, because people
who grew up with that
2067
02:04:30,033 --> 02:04:32,135
went on to do all the stuff
that is being done now.
2068
02:04:32,269 --> 02:04:35,072
The Amiga was the last time
2069
02:04:35,205 --> 02:04:37,908
that you could just really
experiment and play around.
2070
02:04:38,041 --> 02:04:39,309
There were no real barriers.
2071
02:04:39,443 --> 02:04:44,848
And also the hardware itself,
as I've already spoken quite lovingly of,
2072
02:04:44,948 --> 02:04:48,552
was so flexible that
it allowed real experimentation.
2073
02:04:48,685 --> 02:04:50,854
And experimentation, actually,
that I'm not even sure
2074
02:04:50,954 --> 02:04:53,757
the designers of the machine
had planned.
2075
02:04:53,890 --> 02:04:56,693
So you have the feeling
of empowerment.
2076
02:04:57,127 --> 02:05:02,265
To be able to do great things
with just that computer in front of you.
2077
02:05:02,366 --> 02:05:06,370
The first platform that allowed people
that were creative
2078
02:05:06,503 --> 02:05:10,273
to get out into the masses,
and I just enjoyed being a part of that.
2079
02:05:10,374 --> 02:05:12,776
The first time I saw Jim Sachs' work,
2080
02:05:12,909 --> 02:05:16,580
I understood, immediately,
what the leap was.
2081
02:05:16,713 --> 02:05:20,317
The Amiga enabled that entire revolution.
2082
02:05:20,450 --> 02:05:24,588
Not just graphically, but in the way
you could effectively tell a story,
2083
02:05:24,721 --> 02:05:26,857
and change the gaming experience
2084
02:05:26,957 --> 02:05:30,494
from one of just arcade quality
to something a little more substantial.
2085
02:05:30,594 --> 02:05:32,295
Some of those early games,
2086
02:05:32,396 --> 02:05:35,399
and some of the immersive storytelling
that we were able to do
2087
02:05:35,532 --> 02:05:38,802
in some of those early games,
I think the repercussions of that,
2088
02:05:38,935 --> 02:05:42,472
the echoes of that are still
being heard and felt today
2089
02:05:42,572 --> 02:05:44,307
in games that are coming out now.
2090
02:05:44,408 --> 02:05:47,944
When people ask me
why I am still working in games...
2091
02:05:48,078 --> 02:05:52,215
It's that collaborative development
environment that you get
2092
02:05:52,349 --> 02:05:55,485
where you're working with artists,
coders, musicians, designers.
2093
02:05:55,585 --> 02:06:00,090
All in the same kind of framework,
and you're creating something together
2094
02:06:00,190 --> 02:06:02,359
that none of you as individuals could create.
2095
02:06:02,492 --> 02:06:07,831
And it's probably the Amiga that was the first
moment that happened in my experience.
2096
02:06:07,964 --> 02:06:09,499
But once you got to the Amiga,
2097
02:06:09,599 --> 02:06:12,502
you could start to sell a game on,
"Look at these graphics."
2098
02:06:12,602 --> 02:06:17,140
And actually, the games industry
has spent the last 20 plus years
2099
02:06:17,240 --> 02:06:20,010
selling games in the same sort of way.
2100
02:06:20,444 --> 02:06:23,814
The Amiga opened doors...
2101
02:06:25,515 --> 02:06:28,051
...for professionals...
2102
02:06:29,586 --> 02:06:33,790
...and professions in a way that
I don't think any other machine
2103
02:06:33,924 --> 02:06:36,359
has been able to emulate.
2104
02:06:36,460 --> 02:06:41,331
First it allowed the progression from
assembly language to C programming.
2105
02:06:41,431 --> 02:06:44,668
So programmers could afford
to be more high level,
2106
02:06:44,801 --> 02:06:49,473
and therefore, not nearly so skilled
on low level assembler.
2107
02:06:49,606 --> 02:06:54,010
The second thing it facilitated
was the entry of artists,
2108
02:06:54,144 --> 02:06:58,348
whose primary focus was art
and not the creation of pixels.
2109
02:06:58,448 --> 02:07:04,254
And the third stream of people it brought in
was musicians and composers.
2110
02:07:04,387 --> 02:07:07,557
People who could now
create music on a machine
2111
02:07:07,657 --> 02:07:13,763
that would more faithfully than not
allow them to realise their efforts.
2112
02:07:13,864 --> 02:07:17,267
And we moved from a hobbyist industry
2113
02:07:17,400 --> 02:07:20,637
to very much an industry
capable of professionalism.
2114
02:07:20,770 --> 02:07:24,007
I think that everybody of my generation
who was from Europe
2115
02:07:24,107 --> 02:07:26,610
and who is in the games industry nowadays,
2116
02:07:26,710 --> 02:07:29,513
I would bet that they came in via the Amiga.
2117
02:07:29,646 --> 02:07:34,918
Maybe initially, shortly, briefly,
the C64 and the Atari ST,
2118
02:07:35,051 --> 02:07:37,387
but all of us moved
on to the Amiga very quickly,
2119
02:07:37,487 --> 02:07:39,055
and that's where everybody flourished.
2120
02:07:39,189 --> 02:07:43,093
So it's absolutely crucial,
and you can ask all around the world.
2121
02:07:43,226 --> 02:07:45,462
In Japan, people would have come
via the consoles,
2122
02:07:45,595 --> 02:07:47,497
a little bit also here in the US,
2123
02:07:47,631 --> 02:07:50,834
and the PC of course got strong
very quickly in the US.
2124
02:07:50,934 --> 02:07:54,871
But all of Europe,
the game industry veterans of today
2125
02:07:55,005 --> 02:07:57,140
have to thank the Amiga tremendously.
2126
02:07:57,274 --> 02:08:00,410
I think it was a fundamental building block
for the modern games industry.
2127
02:08:00,510 --> 02:08:04,481
I think it was a point at which
everybody realised games could be
2128
02:08:04,614 --> 02:08:08,552
the massive business that they are now,
worth countless billions.
2129
02:08:08,685 --> 02:08:13,223
And I think it was wonderful
to be involved at the very early stages.
2130
02:08:13,323 --> 02:08:18,161
We had no clue whatsoever that
the industry would get as big as it is now.
2131
02:08:18,295 --> 02:08:20,163
It was more than a games machine.
2132
02:08:20,297 --> 02:08:24,334
It was more than a computer,
it was many things for many people.
2133
02:08:24,467 --> 02:08:27,904
That's what made it special, I think.
You know?
2134
02:08:28,038 --> 02:08:32,742
So, it was special for us because
we could really show off our talents.
2135
02:08:32,876 --> 02:08:36,680
And, like I said, it was special for people
2136
02:08:36,780 --> 02:08:39,482
because they could do
amazing things with it, you know,
2137
02:08:39,583 --> 02:08:44,287
in terms of music, visuals,
video editing, you know.
2138
02:08:44,387 --> 02:08:47,157
That's the main reason, I reckon.
2139
02:08:47,290 --> 02:08:52,996
It touched many different people
from many walks of lives.
2140
02:08:53,163 --> 02:08:54,898
We knew it was
a great graphics machine,
2141
02:08:54,998 --> 02:08:58,602
but we never saw the entire
desktop video revolution coming.
2142
02:08:58,735 --> 02:09:03,206
We didn't realise that the Amiga
was going to be the device
2143
02:09:03,340 --> 02:09:07,277
that was powerful enough
to create this new industry.
2144
02:09:07,377 --> 02:09:12,349
These days, no one thinks twice about
editing video on their home computer,
2145
02:09:12,482 --> 02:09:14,551
but it was radical then,
2146
02:09:14,684 --> 02:09:17,320
it was the first machine
that allowed that kind of capability.
2147
02:09:17,420 --> 02:09:21,891
And the Amiga was designed
so they put out very good video quality
2148
02:09:21,992 --> 02:09:23,994
compared to all the other computers
that were in the market
2149
02:09:24,127 --> 02:09:28,498
in terms of the NTSC television signal
that came out of the Amiga
2150
02:09:28,598 --> 02:09:31,901
was very close
to being right on the spec.
2151
02:09:32,002 --> 02:09:35,605
So it allowed you
to then record that onto videotape
2152
02:09:35,739 --> 02:09:38,908
or to put it out over the air,
whatever you wanted to do with it.
2153
02:09:39,009 --> 02:09:42,178
And that was right out of the Amiga
without any special equipment.
2154
02:09:42,312 --> 02:09:45,348
A lot of people use that
even without Video Toaster.
2155
02:09:45,448 --> 02:09:49,352
They used their Amigas
for creating video and creating audio.
2156
02:09:49,452 --> 02:09:51,588
'As we speak,
2157
02:09:51,721 --> 02:09:57,060
'a paradigm shift of equal magnitude
has grabbed the world of video.
2158
02:09:57,193 --> 02:09:59,129
'A paradigm shift.
2159
02:09:59,229 --> 02:10:02,265
'And the force behind the shift,
2160
02:10:02,399 --> 02:10:05,735
'we at NewTek call the Video Toaster.
2161
02:10:05,835 --> 02:10:07,437
'Hey, that's a hot name.'
2162
02:10:07,570 --> 02:10:10,640
We discovered that by using
the Amiga's video,
2163
02:10:10,774 --> 02:10:15,145
we could take advantage of all
of the Amiga's graphic scope processing.
2164
02:10:15,812 --> 02:10:17,614
The Copper and the blitter.
2165
02:10:17,747 --> 02:10:19,783
All these things,
we weren't making pictures with them,
2166
02:10:19,883 --> 02:10:22,352
we were making
these bizarre little barcodes
2167
02:10:22,452 --> 02:10:25,188
that would then control
the Video Toaster card.
2168
02:10:25,288 --> 02:10:28,058
And then there was a huge phenomenon
with 3D animation.
2169
02:10:28,191 --> 02:10:34,230
Because LightWave 3D was just one of
what we call croutons in the Video Toaster,
2170
02:10:34,364 --> 02:10:36,232
these little squares you click on.
2171
02:10:36,366 --> 02:10:40,003
It's a toast analogy.
Croutons, little pieces of bread.
2172
02:10:40,103 --> 02:10:42,439
It's just my "rye" sense of humour.
2173
02:10:42,572 --> 02:10:46,109
One of the croutons was LightWave.
2174
02:10:46,242 --> 02:10:49,512
So you click on that,
and the screen opens up
2175
02:10:49,646 --> 02:10:52,415
into front, top, and side view,
and now you can make models,
2176
02:10:52,515 --> 02:10:56,252
you can light them
and you can do 3D animation.
2177
02:10:56,386 --> 02:11:02,459
And a lot of people started to buy
the Video Toaster just for that reason.
2178
02:11:02,592 --> 02:11:06,496
And so Babylon 5,
2179
02:11:06,629 --> 02:11:10,834
seaQuest DSV, a Spielberg show...
2180
02:11:12,302 --> 02:11:18,441
Examples of people taking LightWave,
building a big crew of animators,
2181
02:11:18,541 --> 02:11:23,847
and doing CGI on television, which,
up to that point, was absolutely unthinkable.
2182
02:11:23,980 --> 02:11:25,949
The market moved up.
2183
02:11:26,082 --> 02:11:32,021
And around the time that
the Amiga 500 was really, really flying
2184
02:11:32,122 --> 02:11:34,324
was also the beginning of the PC market.
2185
02:11:34,457 --> 02:11:36,893
PCs, they were business machines
and they were very expensive.
2186
02:11:37,026 --> 02:11:41,131
So, actually, for most people,
they couldn't even aspire to buying one.
2187
02:11:41,264 --> 02:11:43,133
You're talking about £1,000 plus.
2188
02:11:43,266 --> 02:11:48,371
Cos you know they're expensive and
well made because they had metal cases.
2189
02:11:48,505 --> 02:11:52,275
Whereas, of course, the home PCs,
they were made of plastic.
2190
02:11:52,375 --> 02:11:55,345
- So they weren't very serious things.
- And on occasions woodgrain plastic as well.
2191
02:11:55,478 --> 02:11:56,579
- Yes.
- Which was wonderful.
2192
02:11:56,713 --> 02:11:59,783
- I never quite understood that.
- The Atari VCS - beautiful.
2193
02:11:59,916 --> 02:12:02,385
Give the consumer confidence,
give them a plastic computer,
2194
02:12:02,519 --> 02:12:06,589
high-tech, but make sure it looks
like your grandad's gramophone.
2195
02:12:06,723 --> 02:12:09,058
And they weren't as popular
because, let's be honest about it,
2196
02:12:09,159 --> 02:12:13,196
the PCs could not deliver
what the Amiga could deliver
2197
02:12:13,329 --> 02:12:15,298
in terms of graphics and sound,
2198
02:12:15,398 --> 02:12:17,333
and all those wonderful things
that we already know.
2199
02:12:17,467 --> 02:12:20,770
The PC was way behind
in technology terms.
2200
02:12:20,904 --> 02:12:24,674
(Kingsley) I think it was difficult
to make games in the early days for PC,
2201
02:12:24,774 --> 02:12:29,212
because the colour palettes
were just so incredibly awful.
2202
02:12:29,345 --> 02:12:32,715
There weren't really colours, they were
designed for spreadsheet annotation.
2203
02:12:32,816 --> 02:12:35,385
Basically, the graphics cards
weren't graphics cards.
2204
02:12:35,518 --> 02:12:39,622
They were designed to make spreadsheets
and word processes easier to read.
2205
02:12:39,756 --> 02:12:43,159
You could have yellow letters or you could
have blue letters or green letters.
2206
02:12:43,293 --> 02:12:44,727
That was what it was for.
2207
02:12:44,828 --> 02:12:48,731
And we were trying to hack that
to make monsters,
2208
02:12:48,832 --> 02:12:50,600
and warriors,
and all that kind of stuff.
2209
02:12:50,733 --> 02:12:53,837
It was really about the PC era of games,
2210
02:12:53,970 --> 02:12:56,706
which coincides a lot
with the rise of Amiga.
2211
02:12:56,806 --> 02:13:02,178
And I think it was more getting out
of these specialised little machines,
2212
02:13:02,312 --> 02:13:05,515
like the Atari 800
and the Commodore 64,
2213
02:13:05,615 --> 02:13:08,718
where things were moving
into actual real computers.
2214
02:13:08,818 --> 02:13:10,753
And the Amiga was a real computer,
2215
02:13:10,854 --> 02:13:13,356
and the PC was a real computer,
2216
02:13:13,456 --> 02:13:17,193
and these things were making their way
into people's homes
2217
02:13:17,327 --> 02:13:19,529
for reasons other than gaming.
2218
02:13:19,629 --> 02:13:23,833
So, it's like we were getting
into people's homes in this stealth way.
2219
02:13:23,967 --> 02:13:26,569
They would buy their PC,
they would buy their Amiga
2220
02:13:26,669 --> 02:13:28,605
for some "serious" reason.
2221
02:13:28,738 --> 02:13:30,673
But they'd spend all their time
playing games on it.
2222
02:13:30,807 --> 02:13:35,345
So I do think it was actually a very,
very influential time just because of that.
2223
02:13:35,445 --> 02:13:39,816
Because a lot of these things were
moving into normal people's homes
2224
02:13:39,949 --> 02:13:43,052
for other reasons,
and they were being exposed to gaming.
2225
02:13:43,186 --> 02:13:47,190
(Haynie) Henry Rubin, who is
the vice-president of engineering,
2226
02:13:47,290 --> 02:13:51,461
really wanted Amigas to be able
to do some kind of PC emulation.
2227
02:13:51,895 --> 02:13:56,099
That's why we had that PC emulation
program when the Amiga launched,
2228
02:13:56,232 --> 02:13:59,235
even though it was really, really slow
and not very useful.
2229
02:13:59,369 --> 02:14:00,837
The emulator
2230
02:14:00,970 --> 02:14:05,642
which turns your Amiga computer
into an IBM personal computer.
2231
02:14:05,775 --> 02:14:08,077
(Laughter and applause)
2232
02:14:09,779 --> 02:14:13,483
(Haynie) They wanted to be able to sell
Amigas into businesses,
2233
02:14:13,616 --> 02:14:16,619
and there was this checkmark that said,
2234
02:14:16,719 --> 02:14:20,089
"Is it PC compatible to be able
to sell something in businesses?"
2235
02:14:20,223 --> 02:14:22,859
So, if I said I wanted Amiga on my desk,
2236
02:14:22,992 --> 02:14:25,028
somebody's gonna come along and say,
2237
02:14:25,128 --> 02:14:27,897
"You know, company requires you
to do all your documentation
2238
02:14:28,031 --> 02:14:31,634
"in Microsoft Word,
so you can't have that Amiga."
2239
02:14:31,734 --> 02:14:34,837
It was interesting because, obviously,
people were aware that there was a market,
2240
02:14:34,938 --> 02:14:38,241
this machine was a market,
but an alternate way of it working...
2241
02:14:38,341 --> 02:14:40,944
There was that PC emulation card,
wasn't there?
2242
02:14:41,077 --> 02:14:45,748
The KCS Power Board, I think it was.
Yeah, and that was for the Amiga.
2243
02:14:45,882 --> 02:14:49,085
There was an interesting sort of hybrid.
You've got yourself an Amiga.
2244
02:14:49,218 --> 02:14:50,820
You actually want a PC.
2245
02:14:50,920 --> 02:14:53,056
So here's a board to plug in
to get yourself a PC.
2246
02:14:53,156 --> 02:14:55,959
(Haynie) PC emulator plugs
into the A500's RAM expansion.
2247
02:14:56,092 --> 02:14:58,294
Then, all of a sudden,
I have my Microsoft Word.
2248
02:14:58,428 --> 02:15:02,532
Here was a solution that allowed you
to get that Amiga into that business.
2249
02:15:02,665 --> 02:15:07,837
Which seems a bit counter-intuitive now,
but it led to great things.
2250
02:15:07,937 --> 02:15:13,309
And was the beginning of one machine
needing to work on another and vice versa.
2251
02:15:13,443 --> 02:15:15,745
So it's the beginning
of blurring of the edges
2252
02:15:15,878 --> 02:15:18,581
of PC technology, Amiga technology,
and that kind of thing.
2253
02:15:18,748 --> 02:15:21,884
It's very hard to get across
2254
02:15:21,985 --> 02:15:25,355
the extent of the impact
the Amiga had on my life.
2255
02:15:28,725 --> 02:15:34,397
I think, had it not been for the Amiga,
I wouldn't be in the industry today.
2256
02:15:35,198 --> 02:15:37,800
I think, had it not been for the Amiga,
2257
02:15:37,934 --> 02:15:41,204
I would not have started
to learn high-level languages.
2258
02:15:41,337 --> 02:15:46,776
I would not have started to get into
graphics and audio the way that I did.
2259
02:15:46,909 --> 02:15:49,512
I think, in a lot of ways,
because of the excitement,
2260
02:15:49,612 --> 02:15:55,151
because of that profound step change
in what a machine could do,
2261
02:15:57,687 --> 02:16:03,960
it opened up life in a way
I couldn't possibly imagine before.
2262
02:16:04,093 --> 02:16:06,195
It made me an optimist.
2263
02:16:06,329 --> 02:16:11,701
It made me realise that human beings
were capable of astounding leaps.
2264
02:16:11,801 --> 02:16:17,407
And it's very hard to get that across
without sounding ridiculous.
2265
02:16:17,540 --> 02:16:22,311
But it really was...
People wait for jetpacks, right?
2266
02:16:22,412 --> 02:16:26,215
People talk about flying cars.
The Amiga was that to me.
2267
02:16:26,349 --> 02:16:30,253
There are so many people just
starting to work on the Amiga again,
2268
02:16:30,386 --> 02:16:33,756
that there are lots of games,
new games, coming out right now,
2269
02:16:33,856 --> 02:16:35,658
and the quality's so amazing,
2270
02:16:35,792 --> 02:16:39,228
it's even more amazing
than commercial games in the '80s.
2271
02:16:39,362 --> 02:16:44,667
The games industry on mobile phones
is so destroyed.
2272
02:16:44,801 --> 02:16:48,337
I actually think that you can make
more money with an Amiga game right now
2273
02:16:48,438 --> 02:16:50,239
than you can do with an iPhone game.
2274
02:16:50,373 --> 02:16:53,943
It was an incredible culture at Amiga.
2275
02:16:54,043 --> 02:16:57,413
These guys were firing on all cylinders,
you know.
2276
02:16:57,547 --> 02:16:59,682
They were all friends.
2277
02:16:59,816 --> 02:17:02,418
The hardware guys worked
with the software guys.
2278
02:17:02,552 --> 02:17:07,256
It was kind of a small, tightly knit team.
2279
02:17:07,390 --> 02:17:10,293
And you could just tell that
there was magic happening.
2280
02:17:10,426 --> 02:17:13,796
It was the thing that I loved the most
about the Amiga,
2281
02:17:13,896 --> 02:17:18,601
it was this wild, galloping horse
the entire time.
2282
02:17:18,701 --> 02:17:22,905
And the best you could do
was ride that baby bareback
2283
02:17:23,039 --> 02:17:27,777
and hang on to the mane and hope that
we're all heading in the right direction together.
2284
02:17:29,011 --> 02:17:32,849
It was insane,
it was passion and love
2285
02:17:32,982 --> 02:17:37,253
and belief in things
that couldn't possibly come true,
2286
02:17:37,386 --> 02:17:39,789
and yet they were coming true,
month after month.
2287
02:17:39,889 --> 02:17:42,291
Things were working
the way that we hoped.
2288
02:17:42,425 --> 02:17:45,394
It was this crazy, crazy dream
2289
02:17:45,495 --> 02:17:50,533
that a bunch of us had and that
we actually managed to turn into reality.
2290
02:17:51,334 --> 02:17:54,637
For me, it was the opportunity to create,
2291
02:17:54,737 --> 02:17:58,608
not just multi-tasking,
but also the architecture of the Amiga
2292
02:17:58,708 --> 02:18:00,943
with dynamically loadable libraries
2293
02:18:01,077 --> 02:18:03,412
and device drivers
and the interrupt handlers,
2294
02:18:03,513 --> 02:18:08,551
and all of that architecture
that I created during that time
2295
02:18:08,684 --> 02:18:11,220
went on to be used
by so many other people.
2296
02:18:11,320 --> 02:18:14,157
It was like the basis of design
from then on.
2297
02:18:14,290 --> 02:18:19,028
It sort of established a platform
or a way of developing
2298
02:18:19,128 --> 02:18:20,763
all of the systems that came in the future.
2299
02:18:20,897 --> 02:18:23,266
So it was one of the first
microcomputer systems
2300
02:18:23,366 --> 02:18:25,101
to really have that kind of architecture.
2301
02:18:25,234 --> 02:18:26,702
All the stuff that people have done
2302
02:18:26,836 --> 02:18:28,838
with the audio and the graphics
and the video,
2303
02:18:28,938 --> 02:18:31,874
I just really feel that I'm lucky
2304
02:18:31,974 --> 02:18:35,678
to have been at the right place and time
to be a part of that.
2305
02:18:35,778 --> 02:18:37,380
So that's very big.
2306
02:18:37,513 --> 02:18:38,848
And the friends I've made,
2307
02:18:38,948 --> 02:18:42,985
and I'm still in contact
with a lot of the people
2308
02:18:43,119 --> 02:18:45,354
that I worked with during that time.
2309
02:18:45,488 --> 02:18:47,356
And that's been amazing, too.
2310
02:18:47,490 --> 02:18:52,862
(Luck) I look back on my contribution
to the Amiga in several ways, I think.
2311
02:18:52,962 --> 02:18:56,165
The graphics, the bouncing ball,
2312
02:18:56,299 --> 02:19:00,069
the multi-tasking layer library.
2313
02:19:00,169 --> 02:19:03,306
But also, to a certain degree,
2314
02:19:03,406 --> 02:19:09,345
trying to instil in other developers and
other users the magic that could be done
2315
02:19:09,478 --> 02:19:13,382
if you're on a mission from God
with the right family.
2316
02:19:14,917 --> 02:19:20,156
And it was incredible working
with the people that I knew there.
2317
02:19:21,490 --> 02:19:23,893
All of them are still close friends of mine.
2318
02:19:23,993 --> 02:19:27,597
My Amiga family is gonna be
my family for life.
2319
02:19:27,730 --> 02:19:30,333
There have been questions
about what we believed
2320
02:19:30,433 --> 02:19:32,735
at the time when
we were doing the machine.
2321
02:19:32,835 --> 02:19:34,604
Did we think it was gonna come true?
2322
02:19:34,737 --> 02:19:38,574
Did we feel a force
to push ourselves forward?
2323
02:19:38,708 --> 02:19:42,812
And the answer to that
is overpoweringly yes.
2324
02:19:42,945 --> 02:19:47,717
David Morse, president of the company,
was an amazing man.
2325
02:19:47,817 --> 02:19:52,955
Jay Miner, architect of the basic system,
an amazing man.
2326
02:19:53,055 --> 02:19:54,957
Dave Morse, our fearless leader,
2327
02:19:55,057 --> 02:19:58,728
he led us through all
the trials and tribulations.
2328
02:19:58,828 --> 02:20:01,197
He kept that flame alive.
2329
02:20:01,330 --> 02:20:07,036
There was some amazing power
behind those two guys
2330
02:20:07,169 --> 02:20:10,239
that pushed us forward
2331
02:20:10,373 --> 02:20:15,478
through no sleep, no money,
no time, no parts,
2332
02:20:15,611 --> 02:20:18,614
competition that would show up
from time to time...
2333
02:20:19,982 --> 02:20:24,420
all sorts of things that would get
in our way, parts that would break.
2334
02:20:24,553 --> 02:20:30,026
And we pushed forward
because we felt in our insides
2335
02:20:30,159 --> 02:20:33,896
how amazing this whole machine
was going to be.
2336
02:20:34,030 --> 02:20:38,200
And whatever spirit Dave and Jay
had inside of them fed us,
2337
02:20:38,301 --> 02:20:41,404
and pushed us forward,
it was amazing.
2338
02:20:41,504 --> 02:20:45,574
An Amiga serial number 1 still works.
2339
02:20:45,675 --> 02:20:47,410
It still runs.
2340
02:20:48,678 --> 02:20:50,246
Magic.
2341
02:20:50,379 --> 02:20:55,017
You don't get an opportunity very often
to be at the very threshold,
2342
02:20:55,117 --> 02:20:59,255
the very beginning,
of a billion-dollar-plus product line.
2343
02:20:59,388 --> 02:21:02,625
So I can look back and say,
"Hey, I was there.
2344
02:21:02,725 --> 02:21:05,628
"I was there when...
I walked in the door
2345
02:21:05,728 --> 02:21:10,466
"and we had two chairs, a card table,
and a coffeepot, and a dog."
2346
02:21:10,599 --> 02:21:14,003
Jay Miner had a dog.
2347
02:21:14,103 --> 02:21:16,272
Jay's dog was named Mitchy.
2348
02:21:16,405 --> 02:21:20,710
And Mitchy was the mascot of the office.
2349
02:21:20,843 --> 02:21:26,215
And in the beginning days of the Amiga,
they designed the initial hardware
2350
02:21:26,315 --> 02:21:30,619
using pencils and erasers and paper.
2351
02:21:30,720 --> 02:21:35,324
They would draw gates on the paper
and erase those gates and draw new ones
2352
02:21:35,458 --> 02:21:37,626
and connect the lines together.
2353
02:21:37,727 --> 02:21:40,529
And this was state-of-the-art of that day,
2354
02:21:40,663 --> 02:21:44,900
that you would design hardware
on paper with pencils.
2355
02:21:45,034 --> 02:21:48,537
And I would sit and watch Jay Miner
designing hardware.
2356
02:21:48,671 --> 02:21:52,575
And people say that it wasn't really Jay
that was the father of the Amiga,
2357
02:21:52,708 --> 02:21:56,112
that it was actually Mitchy his dog,
and I'm here to tell you it's a true story.
2358
02:21:56,245 --> 02:22:00,583
I would watch. Jay would sit there,
and he'd draw a gate on a sheet of paper.
2359
02:22:00,716 --> 02:22:03,753
And he'd look over at Mitchy
and Mitchy'd go...
2360
02:22:03,886 --> 02:22:06,856
And so he'd erase that and he'd draw it
upside down and with different lines,
2361
02:22:06,956 --> 02:22:08,691
and Mitchy'd go...
2362
02:22:08,791 --> 02:22:10,760
And so it was, "OK!"
2363
02:22:13,696 --> 02:22:16,699
Amiga computer, designed by dog!
2364
02:23:47,823 --> 02:23:49,625
'Where am I?'
2365
02:25:08,537 --> 02:25:11,840
(Man) It is the best machine
that is around anywhere in the world.
2366
02:25:11,941 --> 02:25:14,443
(Woman) The professional machine
of the future.
2367
02:25:23,686 --> 02:25:25,788
- How would I describe it?
- I think it's fantastic.
2368
02:25:25,921 --> 02:25:27,556
- Awesome.
- It's gonna skyrocket.
2369
02:25:27,690 --> 02:25:29,258
Only Amiga makes it possible.
2370
02:25:29,358 --> 02:25:32,695
♪ Only Amiga
2371
02:25:32,795 --> 02:25:35,664
♪ Makes it possible
2372
02:25:35,764 --> 02:25:38,734
♪ Only Amiga
2373
02:25:38,867 --> 02:25:42,271
♪ Makes it happen
2374
02:25:42,371 --> 02:25:46,108
- ♪ Only Amiga
- ♪ Ooh, ooh!
2375
02:25:46,208 --> 02:25:49,111
- ♪ Makes it possible
- ♪ Ooh, ooh!
2376
02:25:49,211 --> 02:25:51,880
♪ Only Amiga
2377
02:25:51,981 --> 02:25:55,351
♪ Makes it happen...
2378
02:25:55,484 --> 02:26:00,623
Amiga's got the guts to do things
that you can't do on other hardware.
2379
02:26:00,756 --> 02:26:02,558
- And it does all the work for you.
- Wow!
2380
02:26:02,691 --> 02:26:05,361
State-of-the-art technology at a price
that everybody can afford.
2381
02:26:06,528 --> 02:26:12,301
The Amiga is the best graphics machine
available in the world today.
2382
02:26:12,401 --> 02:26:14,336
♪ Only Amiga...
2383
02:26:14,436 --> 02:26:16,005
Only Amiga.
2384
02:26:16,138 --> 02:26:18,807
♪ Only Amiga
2385
02:26:18,941 --> 02:26:20,709
♪ Only Amiga...
2386
02:26:20,809 --> 02:26:22,144
Only Amiga.
2387
02:26:22,244 --> 02:26:23,846
♪ Only Amiga...
2388
02:26:23,979 --> 02:26:25,447
Only Amiga.
2389
02:26:25,581 --> 02:26:28,217
- ♪ Only Amiga...
- Makes it possible.
2390
02:26:28,350 --> 02:26:32,454
- ♪ Only Amiga...
- Only Amiga makes it possible.
2391
02:26:32,588 --> 02:26:35,824
♪ Oh! Only Amiga...
2392
02:26:35,958 --> 02:26:37,359
Ha-ha! Outrageous.
2393
02:26:37,459 --> 02:26:40,396
- ♪ Makes it possible
- Fabulous.
2394
02:26:40,529 --> 02:26:43,132
♪ Only Amiga
2395
02:26:43,232 --> 02:26:47,136
♪ Makes it possible... ♪
2396
02:26:47,236 --> 02:26:48,671
Only Amiga...
2397
02:26:48,804 --> 02:26:51,006
- This is it.
-...makes it possible!
2398
02:26:51,140 --> 02:26:53,142
(Cheering and applause)
2399
02:26:59,581 --> 02:27:01,684
Well, it was in 1982,
2400
02:27:01,817 --> 02:27:06,388
a friend of mine that I used to work with
at Atari came to me and said,
2401
02:27:06,488 --> 02:27:09,425
"Hey, Jay, let's start a new company.
I'm tired of this one."
2402
02:27:09,558 --> 02:27:14,797
And, er... I said, "Well, fine."
I said, "I'll do the chips for it.
2403
02:27:14,897 --> 02:27:18,967
"And I'll be the vice-president
if I can do the chips my way."
2404
02:27:19,501 --> 02:27:23,205
My original vision of the machine
was as a low-cost entry
2405
02:27:23,305 --> 02:27:28,610
into the computer field
via the video game area.
2406
02:27:28,711 --> 02:27:31,180
Video games, at that time,
were really hot,
2407
02:27:31,280 --> 02:27:33,849
and all our investors wanted
was a video game.
2408
02:27:33,982 --> 02:27:37,453
But I wanted something that could
be expanded into a real computer.
2409
02:27:39,254 --> 02:27:43,459
♪ What would you do if you weren't afraid
of anyone or anything?
2410
02:27:43,592 --> 02:27:46,395
♪ Cos I just crossed that line
2411
02:27:51,467 --> 02:27:56,271
♪ What would you do if you weren't afraid
of anyone or anything?
2412
02:27:56,405 --> 02:27:59,241
♪ Cos I know I'll get mine... ♪
210375
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