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Who set it up?
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Telling you the truth about this.
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Everybody else is pointing to figure it in.
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The idea of a hitman is a long-time trope of the movies.
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You've got John Cusack and gross point blank.
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You've got the guys from Pulp Fiction, Dressed in Black, The Narrow Ties.
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Even more recently, Michael Fassbender is the killer.
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This case was more like Fargo.
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This was amateur hour.
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I felt that this was a story that should be told.
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And 25 years later, it's just being told again.
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The case had a number of twists and turns.
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There was a business card attached to his head.
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They create a homemade silencer with an empty soda bottle.
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Who does that?
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And when you hear what they did it for, what the price was, you scratch your head.
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Did she set this up?
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Ben Franklin said three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead.
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In this case, three people couldn't keep a secret.
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One of those bullets had the victim's name on it.
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We were all asking the same questions.
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Joe Lewinsky was a close friend of mine.
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He was a big brother to me.
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Anybody who knew Joe would call him loose.
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It would be a deep loose.
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He was a fun guy to be around and always cracking jokes, having a good time.
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Joe didn't have any children.
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He liked partying.
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His dad did have a landscape business.
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Joe did landscaping also.
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But he had other ways to make money.
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Buying and selling cars.
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Repairing other people's cars.
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And in the wintertime, Joe was a snow plower.
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The night of December 14th, I came home from work.
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I received a phone call at 6.36 or 6.37 p.m.
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Joe's dad, Mr. Lewinsky, was on the other side of that line.
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He said, Joe didn't show up to do any of his snow plowing.
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We don't know where he is.
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And we can't get into the shop because it's locked and you only have the key.
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Joe's place was mainly a structure of many garages.
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That's where he ran the business.
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But above, the two that were in the front were a studio apartment.
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So I arrived.
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I opened the door because I had the key.
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And when I entered, I went up the stairs.
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Now, these stairs were rather steep, wooden, crickety.
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Couldn't walk up them without making noise.
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I went upstairs and I saw that he was on the bed.
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That was dark.
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So I called his name.
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Joe, Joe.
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Joe, get up.
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You awake?
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You all right?
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Joe.
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There was no response.
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So I went over and I put my two fingers, my index finger and my middle finger on his back.
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And at that point is when I realized something was terribly wrong here.
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And he was cold to the touch.
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So...
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Our people got a call.
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The officers took a look at the scene, found Joe Nowinski face down in his bed,
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bleeding from the area of his ear and apparently deceased.
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When we entered the crime scene, it was in disarray.
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They didn't find any sign of force entry.
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Clothes strewn about, etc.
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The wallet was left open.
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It's hard to tell if something is missing because we don't know what's normally at the scene.
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So initially, the thought is, well, was there a struggle?
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Was there a dispute that went on?
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However, the body tells a different story.
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Joe was laying in bed, partially undressed and covered by a blanket, suggesting that at the time he was probably asleep.
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About midnight was the approximate time of death.
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And he was a big guy.
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So if, in fact, he had been awakened while the assailants were present,
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there would have been a struggle and there would have been a fight.
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And the scene would have been much different.
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So what we took away was that he was basically executed while he was sleeping.
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We could see there was some copper bullet fragments present on and near the body.
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And there were little bits of paper surrounding his head.
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One curiosity reported to the scene was the presence of a business card on the side of Joe's head.
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The card was kind of a mystery.
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The name of their company was Payne Realty.
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Now, spelled differently than Payne, P-A-I-N, but the significance of the word Payne may be connected in some way.
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Maybe the suspect left it as an indication that, yeah, I'm going to deliver some Payne.
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The murder of Joe Nowinski was a rarity and not something we see often, especially in West Hartford.
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West Hartford is a suburb of the city of Hartford.
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It's a pretty safe town.
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We'd get a murder maybe every other year.
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It was a whodunit to start with.
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So the officers walked into the victim's friends, relatives, and associates because they didn't shed any light on the incident.
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I met Joe like 56 years ago.
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He was 14, I was 10.
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You know, we're riding bikes, playing basketball.
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We're always at one another's house.
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As we got a little older, probably around 12, 13 years old, we dated for pretty much six years, on and off, and then we got married a year after high school.
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I was 19.
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Joey was, what, 22, 23 when we got married?
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That's our wedding photo.
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So he was just really caring and made me feel, you know, that he was just the one that I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life.
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And we talked about having a family and having kids and things like that.
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It just got to the point later on, I guess we kind of just, like, grew apart.
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We were divorced.
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We were married pretty much probably about almost three years, three and a half years.
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I, to this day, believed that he loved me and he still, but we were just better friends than we were as husband and wife.
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Joe never remarried or had children, but he loved his family.
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Uncle Joey was a big kid.
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He just liked to have fun.
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He had to be the center of attention, like the biggest personality in the room.
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And he just, he didn't grow up.
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And even, like, I was looking at some pictures, and it's the five siblings, and it's a picture of them all as little kids.
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And he's standing behind them, like, making a pose.
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And that's so him, even as a kid.
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Joe is my uncle.
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He was definitely the fun uncle.
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He was the guy with the loud car, boats, motorcycles.
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One of the things I think about the most when I think about him is my grandmother yelling at him for driving too fast,
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because you can usually hear him coming up the street.
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When we were crazy kids growing up, his true passion was cars had to have a high-performance motor,
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had to have the loud exhaust.
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My brother Steve owned a car that he used to drag race.
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And we did a lot of things.
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A lot of boating, a lot of amusement parks, a lot of racing, a lot of demolition derbies.
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He's, that's one.
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And he used to go blue fishing.
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Oh, my God.
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You know how you know Joe was on the boat?
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Big blue, yeah, big blue.
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He'd be yelling, oh, my God, he'd clear the boat out, right?
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Just so you could get his side of the boat.
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Yeah.
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Big mouth.
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Big, big, big, large mouth.
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He had to be noticed.
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And he was.
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I think Uncle Joey lived his life to the fullest.
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Every time I think Uncle Joey, if I just remember back to when I was little, it's always fun things that I remember.
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I just remember happiness and love.
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And that's all I want him to be remembered.
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It breaks my heart that he's, most people only know him as a murder victim.
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When they said they found Joe, that he was dead, they said he was shot.
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I didn't want to know.
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Because I didn't want to remember him that last time I saw him.
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I wanted to remember how I knew him before.
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Not seeing him with a bullet in his head and laying in his bed.
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I didn't want that.
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I want to remember him like you see him in there with that smile, this gold chain.
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He's loved.
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He's still loved.
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After his murder, there was lots of questions, you know, why.
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I didn't know if there was somebody trying to get revenge on him.
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Were they going to try to hurt someone else in the family?
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A lot of us all went into hiding at that point.
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We kind of stayed home and my mother said, Raymond, watch your back because you have no idea who or what or when it might be coming for you or anybody else.
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The investigators really were at a loss for what this might have been.
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They obviously go speak to various people to try to find out if there was any ongoing beefs or anything like that.
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They also now look into the business card from Payne Real Estate and, you know, whether that had any role.
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We did connect with the owner of the company and he had stated that Joe and Penn wanted to buy some property.
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And it didn't work out, but he took his business card and he had nothing to do with it.
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You know, everything's a building block in an investigation.
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You start from the body, work your way out, and try to figure out what has meaning in a crime scene and what doesn't.
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There was not any forced entry in this situation.
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And, you know, it appears Mr. Nowinski knew his attacker.
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Investigators learned that Joe, the deceased, had a girlfriend.
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And Rosemary Cusano.
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She was 30s, tall, long, flowing hair, sexy looking.
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You see, wear a lot of lipstick, real deep red lipstick all the time.
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Hey, kiss that broad, you're going to be red all over.
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I know Joe was very much in love with her.
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How could he not?
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She was a very good looking woman.
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From what I know, from what I've seen of Rose with Joe, being how long they were together,
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for me it wasn't long.
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Because Joe just brought her on.
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I'd say, if anything, a couple of months, maybe a couple of months,
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we would meet her at parties.
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My wife would talk to her, play sports, we'd eat, we'd drink, we'd have fun.
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I know she was very, like, flirtatious with his friends and stuff.
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One day, my aunt was standing behind Rosemary and one of my uncle's friends.
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And I guess she made a very sexual comment to his friend.
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So I think that thought process with some of my family was that she was like that.
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Um, to two men.
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We all understood how she was.
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She liked to flirt with the guys and stuff like that.
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Hitting on guys, like, um, hugging them, putting her arm around, you know, talking with them.
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Not meaning anything, just to tease Joe.
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He was a little bit jealous like that, you know?
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When an investigator hears that someone is talking about maybe a loved one,
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but not in a very positive way,
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that's a person that I want to talk with.
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We actually contacted his girlfriend, Rosemary.
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She was very forthcoming with information, but she didn't seem upset.
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Rosemary gave us a background on their relationship.
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It was complicated.
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Their relationship was pretty hot and cold.
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I think they were both very emotional people.
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And she, you know, shared that he could be verbally abusive at times
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and sometimes physically abusive.
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Yeah, I think I do recall hearing that.
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Joe would sometimes get loud with her for various reasons.
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There was a time where I was at the shop working
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and they were clearly in a shouting match.
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It clearly elevated.
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She was hands-on all over him.
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You know, of course, he, you know, puts his hands up
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and tries to get away and, you know, hold her back a little bit.
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And I stepped in between them and I said,
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no, this has got to stop her.
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Joe, this has got to stop her. I'm leaving.
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I don't know what it was pertaining to,
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but it was a time that I was very uncomfortable
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and they knew it.
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It slowed down at that point.
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They did stop the bickering
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and we'll leave it at that.
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This piques our interest.
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We want to try to confirm.
219
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And there was another friend of the victim
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telling us that Joe treated Rosemary very bad.
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This was Mark Pascual.
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He had a small engine repair shop.
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He worked on boats, boat motors,
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and jet skis and snowmobiles.
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I don't think particularly prosperous.
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He lived in his parents' house in the basement.
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Mark Pascual was someone Joe met up at the lake.
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Joe was having trouble with his boat.
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Went over to the marina to see if they could see
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what was wrong with it, and that's where he met Mark.
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Joe had a boat, and Mark had a marine repair shop.
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So the friendship was probably more convenient
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for Joe to get some free work done on his boat.
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He was, he's a weird-looking guy.
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He's a pretty short man.
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His hair's really, really curly,
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kind of all over the place.
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He's not the most attractive being.
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Mark, I call him crazy eyes, huh?
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He did have one wandering eye.
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Joe, I said, Joe, man, this guy ain't for you, man.
242
00:16:01,620 --> 00:16:02,360
What are you hanging with him for?
243
00:16:02,620 --> 00:16:03,980
Well, you got the marina.
244
00:16:04,100 --> 00:16:05,780
Get my boat fixed for nothing, Steve.
245
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:06,680
Take care of me.
246
00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:07,720
I said, I don't know, Joe.
247
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:09,460
I don't know, Joe.
248
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:10,460
This guy ain't too slick.
249
00:16:10,460 --> 00:16:13,000
We were talking to him,
250
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,380
and Mark admitted that he knew Rosemary and Joe.
251
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,160
Mark said he said he treated her violently,
252
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,280
and perhaps there was some fear of that.
253
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,400
We delved a little further with Rosemary about Joe.
254
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,460
It turns out Rosemary was the last person
255
00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:35,960
to actually have eyes on, see him alive.
256
00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:49,180
This case, Rosemary told us earlier that day.
257
00:16:49,580 --> 00:16:51,820
She had stopped to see him.
258
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,260
She went upstairs, and his door was open.
259
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,360
Our apartment was in disarray.
260
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:06,080
He was lying in the bed, and she surprised him,
261
00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:07,540
and he's like, what the hell are you doing here?
262
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,740
And she goes, the door was open.
263
00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:11,020
I was calling you.
264
00:17:11,100 --> 00:17:11,720
The door is open.
265
00:17:12,020 --> 00:17:14,720
And he said something like, well, that's not like me.
266
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:20,220
And I think she saw a joint in the ashtray or something.
267
00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:23,900
And he became very irate.
268
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,720
He yelled and screamed at her, told her to get the hell out,
269
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,200
pushed her against the wall.
270
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:28,920
She left.
271
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,520
And then they spoke a little bit later,
272
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,460
and they went to dinner together,
273
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:35,740
like nothing ever happened.
274
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,480
Rosemary, she had kids, and she told us
275
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,200
he had all kinds of presents wrapped up
276
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,520
for all the kids that night.
277
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,480
Joe gave them early Christmas presents.
278
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:57,920
And as they leave, the last thing Joe says to her
279
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,840
is something to the effect of, have a nice life.
280
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,600
I think he realized that he and Rosemary
281
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:10,660
had come to the end.
282
00:18:11,460 --> 00:18:14,340
He gave those presents to the boys
283
00:18:14,340 --> 00:18:15,520
two weeks before Christmas.
284
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,460
Maybe Joe had decided that he was done with Rosemary,
285
00:18:21,460 --> 00:18:25,340
Was there some motive here?
286
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:28,180
It wouldn't be abnormal for her
287
00:18:28,180 --> 00:18:29,620
to have access to his apartment.
288
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,440
When they had this information,
289
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,060
their first thoughts were,
290
00:18:34,740 --> 00:18:36,740
did Rosemary kill Joe?
291
00:18:45,180 --> 00:18:47,440
When the investigator hears that someone
292
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,220
has placed themselves at the scene,
293
00:18:49,540 --> 00:18:50,560
it piques our interest.
294
00:18:51,460 --> 00:18:55,340
Oftentimes, people that are closer to the victim
295
00:18:55,340 --> 00:18:56,480
are often looked at.
296
00:18:57,420 --> 00:19:00,220
But you don't want to go necessarily with one theory
297
00:19:00,220 --> 00:19:02,860
and try to make your evidence fit that theory.
298
00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:05,060
You want to be open to any possibility.
299
00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:10,820
I believe it was in the area of 8 or 9 p.m.
300
00:19:10,820 --> 00:19:14,700
that Rosemary had last time that Rosemary had last seen Joe.
301
00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:17,580
And she goes home with her boys.
302
00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:21,460
In this case, we conduct our interviews,
303
00:19:21,460 --> 00:19:22,460
and we check with alibis,
304
00:19:22,460 --> 00:19:26,340
and we verified that she was telling the truth.
305
00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:32,520
And the problem was one of Joe Nowenski's employees was supposed to work that night,
306
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,560
and so Joe had left some keys for him in the mailbox.
307
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:41,240
But the keys were not in the usual place.
308
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,160
One can assume it could have been used by the killers to get in,
309
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:46,760
especially to get in quietly.
310
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:52,980
It was well known that Joe kept a spare key in his mailbox.
311
00:19:54,980 --> 00:19:58,700
If anyone knew that, could access the apartment.
312
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:05,420
And at this point, we had nothing to indicate that Rosemary was directly involved.
313
00:20:05,420 --> 00:20:12,560
But during our interview with Rosemary, we learned...
314
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,060
Joe had some dicey relationships with other people.
315
00:20:15,060 --> 00:20:17,660
He sold a little weed, sold a little coke.
316
00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:20,360
Bone trucking, turning back odometers.
317
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,160
Who's the hell saying that? The cops are saying that? No!
318
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,100
I was a mechanic for Joe,
319
00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:29,620
and at no time did Joe ever ask me to roll back an odometer.
320
00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:33,200
Stolen merchandise, gambling, sale of false ID.
321
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,640
One of the early concerns of the investigators was there might be too many suspects
322
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,560
just based on him being a jerk to people around.
323
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,720
And his lifestyle, it was somewhat of a mystery.
324
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,300
He had told some friends over a period of a couple weeks
325
00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:54,200
that a couple of his cars in his driveway, the tires had been slashed.
326
00:20:55,980 --> 00:20:58,200
The window in the garage was broken.
327
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:04,220
The incidents occurred probably a week prior to the murder.
328
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,780
He thought somebody had targeted him.
329
00:21:08,780 --> 00:21:17,340
He was concerned that if somebody is causing property damage,
330
00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:20,500
will that lead to violent actions.
331
00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:27,560
So he inquired with somebody about some sort of surveillance or security system,
332
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,960
but that never came to fruition.
333
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,880
It piques my interest,
334
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:38,560
but we were unable to determine who slashed those tires.
335
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,160
However, we interviewed Rosemary again,
336
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:49,680
and Rosemary shared with us that several weeks leading up to the homicide,
337
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,940
there was a small family outing that Rosemary,
338
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:58,920
I think her mother and her sister and her kids,
339
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,720
they took a day trip to Yankee Candle up in Massachusetts.
340
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:08,900
And Joe didn't go, but his friend Mark did,
341
00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:13,640
which was just kind of odd.
342
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,560
And then we said, well, tell us more about Mark.
343
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,220
Rosemary was complaining to Mark about this relationship she had,
344
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,400
that Joseph Nowinski did not treat her so well.
345
00:22:25,580 --> 00:22:28,800
At one point, Mark says to her,
346
00:22:28,940 --> 00:22:30,780
I know Joe treats her horribly.
347
00:22:30,780 --> 00:22:36,360
And then Mark told Rosemary that he had hired a private investigator to follow Nowinski.
348
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,740
And it turns out he's going into Hartford and he's picking up prostitutes
349
00:22:41,740 --> 00:22:44,040
and taking them home and having sex with them.
350
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,140
Prostitutes, I have no knowledge of that.
351
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:47,780
I have no knowledge.
352
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,900
Why would you go hire some prostitute when you can have any picket of litter you want?
353
00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:53,800
Come on.
354
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,520
I know Joe very well.
355
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,700
He was not running around with no hookers.
356
00:22:58,180 --> 00:23:00,880
I hope I'm not wrong, but I don't think so.
357
00:23:01,580 --> 00:23:02,460
I've never seen it.
358
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,500
So when Rosemary recounts that conversation with Mark about, you know,
359
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,420
a private eye observing and confirming that Joe is looking for prostitutes,
360
00:23:15,420 --> 00:23:19,800
she presented to us that, that really angered her.
361
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,400
And she makes the statement that I should have somebody beat him up.
362
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:36,740
And Mark's reply is, better yet, why don't you have someone put a bullet in his head?
363
00:23:36,740 --> 00:23:42,380
That's an aha moment.
364
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,180
And that's pretty close to what happened.
365
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,700
So it was a statement of some significance to us.
366
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,900
And all the conversation that Joe thought somebody was out to get him,
367
00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:01,300
not in the slightest did he ever inform anyone that he thought Mark was that person.
368
00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:09,460
Two days after the murder, he was interviewed in our police station again.
369
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,080
Once my partner and I started speaking with Mark Pascal,
370
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,480
Mark was forthcoming with information regarding his relationship with Joe.
371
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,840
He admitted that he knew Rosemary.
372
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,340
He hung out with Joe, knew him for about two years.
373
00:24:27,540 --> 00:24:29,660
But he denied any involvement in the murder.
374
00:24:31,300 --> 00:24:36,340
And his alibi, which, if you could call it that, was that he was working.
375
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,020
And he went home and watched TV.
376
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:39,860
And it's not a rock solid alibi.
377
00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:41,800
But a lot of people do have that.
378
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,260
People that live alone, for instance.
379
00:24:44,780 --> 00:24:47,580
Then he denied a statement about a bullet in the head.
380
00:24:47,860 --> 00:24:51,480
But then he admitted that he did tell Rosemary about the private investigator
381
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,960
and then revealed to us that there was no private investigator.
382
00:24:56,540 --> 00:24:59,820
That was a story he told Rosemary.
383
00:24:59,820 --> 00:25:06,620
And then Mark was characterizing his and Rosemary's relationship
384
00:25:06,620 --> 00:25:09,700
as a romantic, sexual relationship.
385
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,300
This dude's so full of shit, man.
386
00:25:13,780 --> 00:25:14,260
Really.
387
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,760
He had no sticky relationship with her.
388
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:17,700
Come on, man.
389
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:26,400
In addition to that trip in Massachusetts,
390
00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:32,480
in November, he and Rosemary went away for a weekend up in Maine.
391
00:25:35,420 --> 00:25:37,780
And they had sex.
392
00:25:39,220 --> 00:25:42,400
And I went to Mars recently, and I got some popcorn,
393
00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:43,520
and I watched a good movie.
394
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,080
You won't believe that one, will you?
395
00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:54,400
We got no indication that that was the relationship from Rosemary.
396
00:25:54,620 --> 00:26:00,240
And that's an indication of us that Mark may be in a little bit of a fantasy land.
397
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:08,700
So we want to be able to gauge whether he is telling the truth,
398
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,460
whether he's being deceptive or not.
399
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:16,680
We briefly spoke with him, and we offered him the polygraph.
400
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:24,620
Now, the results of the polygraph are not admissible in court.
401
00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:28,000
However, it is a tool to detect deception.
402
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:33,680
And he showed many signs of deception.
403
00:26:37,380 --> 00:26:39,960
We confronted him with the discrepancies.
404
00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:42,560
Listen, you're deceptive here, you're deceptive there.
405
00:26:43,580 --> 00:26:46,340
Either you thought you were doing something good,
406
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,280
you thought you were saving this woman from domestic violence,
407
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,980
or you're a cold-blooded murderer when you shot the guy in the head.
408
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:55,920
What happened?
409
00:26:58,300 --> 00:26:59,800
He said, you know what?
410
00:27:01,140 --> 00:27:03,080
I'm going to tell you everything.
411
00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:05,400
I'm going to tell you everything.
412
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:07,720
I don't want a lawyer.
413
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,600
I just want to get it over with.
414
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:17,860
The investigator called me at home,
415
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,700
and his exact words were,
416
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,440
we got a break in the case.
417
00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:24,200
All the original theories about who this might have been
418
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,220
went out the window, and it became a murder for hire.
419
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,640
During our interview with Mark,
420
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,400
he said, I know who did it.
421
00:27:33,980 --> 00:27:37,260
Two young, I think, 18, 19-year-old youth
422
00:27:37,260 --> 00:27:39,320
who he knew from being around town,
423
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,820
someone named Eduardo,
424
00:27:41,340 --> 00:27:43,360
and someone named Matt.
425
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,280
I am Matthew Terrell's cousin.
426
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,860
We were pretty close as a family growing up.
427
00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:55,860
We would all come gather together
428
00:27:55,860 --> 00:27:59,040
for holiday dinners, family picnics.
429
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,540
I was the only girl of all of the kids.
430
00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:08,100
Matt would always make sure that I was okay,
431
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:11,300
and he would always make sure that I was included,
432
00:28:11,620 --> 00:28:18,240
and he was just, he was just a kind soul.
433
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:20,560
I'm sorry.
434
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:27,860
When Matt transitioned into, like, middle school and high school,
435
00:28:28,180 --> 00:28:31,360
there were a little bit more unsavory things
436
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:33,120
that he might have been exposed to.
437
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:36,920
He did spend some time in and out of Juvenile Hall,
438
00:28:37,660 --> 00:28:41,520
and I don't think back then I really knew
439
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,500
how much he was struggling in his personal life.
440
00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:47,200
Maybe things would have turned out differently.
441
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,020
If you're not in the criminal life,
442
00:28:53,420 --> 00:28:57,080
you probably don't know anybody who will kill for hire.
443
00:28:57,540 --> 00:29:01,540
You can't go on Angie's list and look for a four-star review.
444
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,160
You have to ask around.
445
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:10,320
Initially, Mark said he knew Eduardo Santiago
446
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,880
from his small engine repair or boat shop,
447
00:29:16,220 --> 00:29:19,920
and Matthew seemed to be more a friend of Eduardo Santiago.
448
00:29:20,580 --> 00:29:23,040
Mark tells them, this girl, Rosemary,
449
00:29:23,220 --> 00:29:25,780
she's got a really, you know, bad boyfriend.
450
00:29:26,380 --> 00:29:27,260
He beats her up.
451
00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:28,000
He's horrible.
452
00:29:28,220 --> 00:29:29,000
He's awful.
453
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,260
He asked them if they would be interested
454
00:29:31,260 --> 00:29:36,480
or they knew somebody who would kill someone for money.
455
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:43,940
And the response was, well, what do you got and how much?
456
00:29:46,220 --> 00:29:48,880
So the plan was to use the rifle,
457
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,640
but it's going to be loud,
458
00:29:50,740 --> 00:29:52,580
and they would have to, you know,
459
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,060
develop some kind of silencer or suppressor.
460
00:29:55,260 --> 00:29:56,760
This is a book called .
461
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,160
It's got a lot of how-tos for various dirty tricks.
462
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,180
On how to manufacture drugs, weapons,
463
00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:06,760
and one of the areas is how to make homemade silencers.
464
00:30:07,420 --> 00:30:11,520
And the book was readily available at libraries, bookstores.
465
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,620
Apparently, Eduardo may have read that
466
00:30:14,620 --> 00:30:17,680
to create a homemade silencer
467
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,500
with an empty soda bottle,
468
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:20,780
taped to the end of the barrel,
469
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:22,200
and filled with paper towels.
470
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,580
And that also explains the little pieces of paper
471
00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:27,660
that they found on Joe Nowinski that night.
472
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,300
The night of the murder, Mark drove the two of them
473
00:30:32,300 --> 00:30:35,520
about a half a block away from the victim's house.
474
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,640
The three of them walked to Joe's residence.
475
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,600
They took the key that was in the mailbox,
476
00:30:44,540 --> 00:30:45,740
and that's where Joe kept it.
477
00:30:45,740 --> 00:30:48,880
Who's going to look in your mailbox for a key?
478
00:30:49,060 --> 00:30:51,660
The only thing I can think is that Mark knew.
479
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,920
Joe had put his keys in the mailbox.
480
00:30:56,060 --> 00:31:00,520
Both Eduardo and Matthew went upstairs.
481
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,460
Mark claimed he waited outside,
482
00:31:02,820 --> 00:31:04,280
and he heard a muffled noise,
483
00:31:05,140 --> 00:31:07,000
and the two men returned to him
484
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,100
and said, he's done.
485
00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:13,560
In some ways, it's a relief
486
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,500
that you finally got the story,
487
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,620
you finally are on the right track,
488
00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:19,320
but it doesn't end here.
489
00:31:20,940 --> 00:31:23,640
Mr. Tyrell was arrested by the detectives.
490
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,080
Also, our department sent a team out
491
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,340
to Mr. Santiago's house.
492
00:31:35,140 --> 00:31:37,080
And found him asleep in bed.
493
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,720
And in one of the bedrooms,
494
00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:41,620
they found a .223 rifle,
495
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:43,960
which matched the type of firearm
496
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,520
that was used in the killing of Joe.
497
00:31:47,380 --> 00:31:49,480
They also found additional rounds
498
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,380
in Eduardo's house.
499
00:31:53,420 --> 00:31:57,120
Eduardo admitted to being at the scene.
500
00:31:57,420 --> 00:31:59,520
The business card turned out as more
501
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,380
when they went through his wallet,
502
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,700
the card fell out and fell onto him.
503
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,780
And then he claimed that it was Matthew
504
00:32:06,780 --> 00:32:08,540
who shot Joe.
505
00:32:09,020 --> 00:32:10,600
Matt pointed the finger at him.
506
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:12,000
He pointed the finger at Matt.
507
00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:15,940
However, Eduardo's palm prints
508
00:32:15,940 --> 00:32:18,520
were lifted off of the murder weapon.
509
00:32:19,660 --> 00:32:22,420
But there's also a lot more evidence
510
00:32:22,420 --> 00:32:23,740
related to the crime.
511
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:25,680
We got the call from the lab.
512
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:26,860
My investigator told me
513
00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:28,040
they had found markings
514
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,180
on some of the projectiles and casings,
515
00:32:31,180 --> 00:32:33,920
and it was something I had never seen before.
516
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:34,560
He goes,
517
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,500
somebody etched a name in one of the bullets.
518
00:32:40,860 --> 00:32:41,880
What's the name?
519
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,380
J-O-E.
520
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,480
So one of those bullets
521
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,380
had the victim's name on it.
522
00:32:56,380 --> 00:32:58,620
Our belief is that Eduardo Santiago
523
00:32:58,620 --> 00:33:01,920
had carved Joe's name on these rounds.
524
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,100
He not only carved it on the cartridge,
525
00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:06,400
which is fairly large,
526
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,840
but he had actually carved Joe
527
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,920
on a round that was about that big.
528
00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:16,040
It's a Hollywood idea
529
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,900
of having a bullet with someone's name on it,
530
00:33:17,940 --> 00:33:18,720
but in this case,
531
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,200
Eduardo Santiago made it very literal.
532
00:33:21,860 --> 00:33:25,580
It just shows how twisted these people are.
533
00:33:25,580 --> 00:33:27,180
Like, no nice kid
534
00:33:27,180 --> 00:33:29,600
is going to go do something like this.
535
00:33:30,340 --> 00:33:33,300
And when you hear what they did it for,
536
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:34,460
what the price was,
537
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:35,580
you scratch your head.
538
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,240
Mark, we asked him,
539
00:33:38,420 --> 00:33:39,560
well, how much?
540
00:33:39,740 --> 00:33:40,920
What was the payment?
541
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,120
What was, you know, how much?
542
00:33:42,140 --> 00:33:42,800
And he said, well,
543
00:33:44,380 --> 00:33:45,960
they didn't want cash
544
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,380
because they were interested
545
00:33:47,380 --> 00:33:50,460
in a snowmobile I had in my garage.
546
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:54,760
And they pointed to
547
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:55,420
the one he had
548
00:33:55,420 --> 00:33:57,180
and he told them.
549
00:33:57,420 --> 00:33:58,300
It needs to transmit
550
00:33:58,300 --> 00:33:59,420
and it goes, well, we'll take it.
551
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:01,800
That's what it comes down to,
552
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:03,720
a broken snowmobile.
553
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,920
We were all taken back
554
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,400
that somebody could kill
555
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,900
for a broken-down snowmobile.
556
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:11,000
And that's all they kept saying
557
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:11,940
was a snowmobile,
558
00:34:12,140 --> 00:34:13,280
a broken-down snowmobile.
559
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:13,920
I'm like, what?
560
00:34:14,820 --> 00:34:15,600
There's a lot of questions
561
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:16,560
I don't understand.
562
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:20,860
Doesn't add up, Mark and Joe,
563
00:34:21,180 --> 00:34:22,200
if they were friends,
564
00:34:22,940 --> 00:34:24,500
friends help friends.
565
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,340
Friends don't kill friends.
566
00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:30,060
Or was there something else
567
00:34:30,060 --> 00:34:32,740
that was causing this?
568
00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:34,000
So you would think
569
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,180
the link is Rosemary.
570
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,900
Many murder-for-hire plots
571
00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:42,580
start with a spouse,
572
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,080
a girlfriend, a boyfriend.
573
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,780
Did Rosemary set this up?
574
00:34:46,780 --> 00:34:54,040
What are your feelings
575
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,760
about Rosemary?
576
00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:06,220
In my heart,
577
00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:08,000
in my heart only,
578
00:35:08,380 --> 00:35:10,460
I think that she fueled the fire.
579
00:35:11,140 --> 00:35:12,820
She fueled the fire on this.
580
00:35:12,820 --> 00:35:14,760
And there's a lot of us
581
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,200
still wondering about this.
582
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,580
If Joe and Rosemary
583
00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:21,700
were really going through hard times,
584
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,120
wouldn't it have been just easier
585
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,220
to wait it out for Mark?
586
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,240
If Roe and Joe were going to separate,
587
00:35:29,740 --> 00:35:32,580
then Mark would eventually
588
00:35:32,580 --> 00:35:33,960
have Roe anyhow?
589
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,860
It just doesn't make sense.
590
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:38,140
I just feel that
591
00:35:38,140 --> 00:35:40,140
if this guy was because of Rosemary,
592
00:35:40,300 --> 00:35:41,240
is this why Joe died
593
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:42,120
because of Rosemary?
594
00:35:42,540 --> 00:35:43,220
So some reason,
595
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:44,080
I just feel,
596
00:35:44,740 --> 00:35:44,940
well,
597
00:35:44,980 --> 00:35:46,420
if he never hooked up with her,
598
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,640
that he would be alive today.
599
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:53,040
Hi, Rosemary.
600
00:35:53,260 --> 00:35:54,100
This is the producer
601
00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:55,040
with the documentary.
602
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,800
I've been outside your apartment
603
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,220
for two hours.
604
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:01,020
I'm waiting to take you
605
00:36:01,020 --> 00:36:01,700
to your interview.
606
00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:10,660
So we had dealings
607
00:36:10,660 --> 00:36:11,620
with Rosemary Cassano
608
00:36:11,620 --> 00:36:13,200
when she spoke to us
609
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:14,420
at the state's attorney's office,
610
00:36:14,620 --> 00:36:16,060
very much in love with Joe.
611
00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:17,640
Who could be gruff
612
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,340
and verbally abusive,
613
00:36:19,940 --> 00:36:20,820
but a nice guy.
614
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,000
She said he's a nice guy.
615
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:22,960
I don't know
616
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,180
that there was any
617
00:36:24,180 --> 00:36:25,540
outward signs
618
00:36:25,540 --> 00:36:26,600
of domestic violence,
619
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,180
but the way Mark
620
00:36:28,180 --> 00:36:29,400
perceived their relationship
621
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:30,380
was a lot different
622
00:36:30,380 --> 00:36:31,660
than what Rosemary
623
00:36:31,660 --> 00:36:33,420
described their relationship as.
624
00:36:34,260 --> 00:36:36,040
He felt he was
625
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,300
Rosemary's savior.
626
00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:42,460
Mark thought that
627
00:36:42,460 --> 00:36:44,940
he and Rosemary
628
00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:46,620
were going to have
629
00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:47,220
a life together.
630
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,040
that if Joe
631
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,040
was out of the picture,
632
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,420
he and Rosemary
633
00:36:52,420 --> 00:36:54,020
could go off
634
00:36:54,020 --> 00:36:54,680
into the sunset.
635
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,760
Mark almost became
636
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,640
proud of what he had done
637
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,160
because at the end
638
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:01,940
of that interview,
639
00:37:01,940 --> 00:37:03,060
he said,
640
00:37:03,180 --> 00:37:04,420
can I call Rosemary
641
00:37:04,420 --> 00:37:05,280
to tell her
642
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:06,260
that he had set
643
00:37:06,260 --> 00:37:07,460
this whole thing up
644
00:37:07,460 --> 00:37:09,380
because he wanted to
645
00:37:09,380 --> 00:37:10,440
be the hero himself
646
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:11,060
to Rosemary?
647
00:37:11,060 --> 00:37:14,320
They thought that
648
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:15,200
very strange.
649
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:16,900
It was almost like
650
00:37:16,900 --> 00:37:17,940
an honorable thing
651
00:37:17,940 --> 00:37:19,040
for him to have done
652
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,240
or would be seen
653
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:20,680
as such
654
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:21,700
in Rosemary's eyes.
655
00:37:22,740 --> 00:37:23,340
Rosemary
656
00:37:23,340 --> 00:37:24,240
subsequently
657
00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:26,000
cleared of any
658
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:26,680
suspicion.
659
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:39,180
I don't feel sorry
660
00:37:39,180 --> 00:37:39,840
for Mark, no.
661
00:37:40,780 --> 00:37:41,080
No.
662
00:37:41,420 --> 00:37:42,140
Mark was the
663
00:37:42,140 --> 00:37:43,100
orchestrator of all this.
664
00:37:44,380 --> 00:37:45,500
If there wasn't Mark,
665
00:37:45,580 --> 00:37:46,600
Joe would still be here today.
666
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:48,080
That's how I feel.
667
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:54,320
Mr. Santiago elected
668
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:55,360
to go to trial.
669
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:57,320
He was nothing
670
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:57,960
but arrogant
671
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,160
every time
672
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:00,040
we ever saw him.
673
00:38:00,540 --> 00:38:01,500
He just had
674
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:02,360
this smirk
675
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:03,300
on his face.
676
00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:04,160
Oh, my God.
677
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:05,300
It was,
678
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:06,200
I'll just never forget,
679
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:06,800
like, you know,
680
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:07,740
I'm a big shot.
681
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,200
I shot him type thing.
682
00:38:09,660 --> 00:38:10,500
The only one I'd say
683
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:12,100
I did feel sorry for
684
00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:13,360
was the other one,
685
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:13,800
a Matthew.
686
00:38:14,060 --> 00:38:15,840
He looked so young.
687
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:17,560
He looked like
688
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:18,120
a little kid.
689
00:38:18,740 --> 00:38:19,560
I will say this,
690
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:20,380
Matthew Tyrell,
691
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:21,000
we approached
692
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:21,940
Matthew Tyrell,
693
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:22,900
there was nothing
694
00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:24,000
we could offer him
695
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:24,900
in terms of his
696
00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:27,000
cooperation in this case.
697
00:38:27,660 --> 00:38:29,060
And I just assumed
698
00:38:29,060 --> 00:38:29,960
when we brought him in
699
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:30,820
he was going to look at me
700
00:38:30,820 --> 00:38:31,120
and say,
701
00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:32,060
thanks, but no thanks.
702
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:34,160
I'm just going to go
703
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:34,860
serve my sentence.
704
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,000
He looked at me,
705
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:37,780
thought for a moment,
706
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,220
and then said,
707
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:39,660
you know what?
708
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:40,640
I'll testify,
709
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:41,400
it's the right thing
710
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:42,180
to do for the family.
711
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:55,860
When Matt came to court
712
00:38:55,860 --> 00:38:57,020
to testify during
713
00:38:57,020 --> 00:38:58,100
Santiago's trial,
714
00:38:58,300 --> 00:38:59,040
he read a statement.
715
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,120
He was sorry
716
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,860
for what he did,
717
00:39:02,940 --> 00:39:03,500
that he should have
718
00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:04,060
stopped it.
719
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:05,220
He apologized
720
00:39:05,220 --> 00:39:06,380
to our entire family,
721
00:39:06,620 --> 00:39:07,560
to his family,
722
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,700
and he was sobbing
723
00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:11,560
almost uncontrollably.
724
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,240
The fact that Matt
725
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:16,680
cooperated with the police,
726
00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:18,540
it tells me that
727
00:39:18,540 --> 00:39:22,600
he is the kid
728
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:23,660
that I grew up with.
729
00:39:24,740 --> 00:39:26,400
And deep down in his heart,
730
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:28,540
he's not this person.
731
00:39:32,180 --> 00:39:33,560
I know most of us
732
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:34,920
in my family
733
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,840
think he got a bad deal.
734
00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:39,140
There's days I wonder
735
00:39:39,140 --> 00:39:41,260
if he really deserves
736
00:39:41,260 --> 00:39:42,040
to spend the rest
737
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:43,040
of his life in prison.
738
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,520
Past 25 years,
739
00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:49,040
it's still hard
740
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,260
for our family.
741
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:56,920
My oldest brother,
742
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:57,640
every year,
743
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,140
never lets me forget.
744
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:02,780
He just says,
745
00:40:02,860 --> 00:40:03,360
he just called,
746
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:03,720
just says,
747
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:04,120
remember?
748
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:05,760
Well, today this day,
749
00:40:06,940 --> 00:40:07,520
it's the day
750
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:08,300
our brother got
751
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:09,200
taken from us.
752
00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:12,660
My brother,
753
00:40:12,780 --> 00:40:12,960
Rick,
754
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:14,720
he loved Joe.
755
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,080
He did a lot.
756
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,400
My brother loved him.
757
00:40:22,260 --> 00:40:23,020
I feel bad.
758
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:26,240
He never forgets,
759
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:27,040
he never forgets.
760
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,040
He never forgets.
761
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,700
He never forgets 25 years.
762
00:40:31,780 --> 00:40:32,360
I've been hearing it
763
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:32,840
every year.
764
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,300
What's that tell you?
765
00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:41,380
Joe was loved.
766
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:43,920
I wish this was different.
767
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:45,500
He was here,
768
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,360
and you were interviewing him,
769
00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:49,500
and
770
00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:54,480
he loved him.
771
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,260
Joe was the nucleus.
772
00:40:58,440 --> 00:40:59,560
Joe held people together.
773
00:41:00,700 --> 00:41:02,300
And if he were here today,
774
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:04,340
he would have held
775
00:41:04,340 --> 00:41:05,260
the group together.
776
00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:09,680
It's taken 25 years.
777
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,640
But Joe Nowinski has
778
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,580
pulled us all together again
779
00:41:16,580 --> 00:41:19,680
by this documentary.
780
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:21,640
And
781
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,880
he's working from the heavens.
782
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,420
And I'm sure we all will
783
00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:30,740
cherish and honor that memory.
784
00:41:30,740 --> 00:41:31,420
He never forgets.
785
00:41:34,300 --> 00:41:38,920
He never forgets.
786
00:41:39,380 --> 00:41:40,120
He never forgets.
56340
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