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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,880 Who set it up? 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,040 Telling you the truth about this. 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Everybody else is pointing to figure it in. 4 00:00:21,460 --> 00:00:25,500 The idea of a hitman is a long-time trope of the movies. 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,380 You've got John Cusack and gross point blank. 6 00:00:28,380 --> 00:00:32,840 You've got the guys from Pulp Fiction, Dressed in Black, The Narrow Ties. 7 00:00:33,460 --> 00:00:36,140 Even more recently, Michael Fassbender is the killer. 8 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:38,540 This case was more like Fargo. 9 00:00:39,060 --> 00:00:40,240 This was amateur hour. 10 00:00:41,460 --> 00:00:45,840 I felt that this was a story that should be told. 11 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,320 And 25 years later, it's just being told again. 12 00:00:52,580 --> 00:00:55,540 The case had a number of twists and turns. 13 00:00:55,540 --> 00:00:59,680 There was a business card attached to his head. 14 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:06,760 They create a homemade silencer with an empty soda bottle. 15 00:01:07,140 --> 00:01:07,960 Who does that? 16 00:01:10,860 --> 00:01:15,760 And when you hear what they did it for, what the price was, you scratch your head. 17 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:19,180 Did she set this up? 18 00:01:19,580 --> 00:01:23,340 Ben Franklin said three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead. 19 00:01:23,340 --> 00:01:26,720 In this case, three people couldn't keep a secret. 20 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,660 One of those bullets had the victim's name on it. 21 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,280 We were all asking the same questions. 22 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:45,660 Joe Lewinsky was a close friend of mine. 23 00:01:46,340 --> 00:01:48,500 He was a big brother to me. 24 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,480 Anybody who knew Joe would call him loose. 25 00:01:53,420 --> 00:01:55,520 It would be a deep loose. 26 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:01,120 He was a fun guy to be around and always cracking jokes, having a good time. 27 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:02,860 Joe didn't have any children. 28 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:03,940 He liked partying. 29 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,560 His dad did have a landscape business. 30 00:02:08,300 --> 00:02:09,900 Joe did landscaping also. 31 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:11,920 But he had other ways to make money. 32 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:13,760 Buying and selling cars. 33 00:02:14,340 --> 00:02:15,560 Repairing other people's cars. 34 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,980 And in the wintertime, Joe was a snow plower. 35 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,380 The night of December 14th, I came home from work. 36 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:31,980 I received a phone call at 6.36 or 6.37 p.m. 37 00:02:32,620 --> 00:02:35,920 Joe's dad, Mr. Lewinsky, was on the other side of that line. 38 00:02:36,740 --> 00:02:40,860 He said, Joe didn't show up to do any of his snow plowing. 39 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:44,680 We don't know where he is. 40 00:02:44,820 --> 00:02:47,860 And we can't get into the shop because it's locked and you only have the key. 41 00:02:48,860 --> 00:02:53,640 Joe's place was mainly a structure of many garages. 42 00:02:54,220 --> 00:02:55,300 That's where he ran the business. 43 00:02:56,100 --> 00:02:59,620 But above, the two that were in the front were a studio apartment. 44 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:01,180 So I arrived. 45 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:02,980 I opened the door because I had the key. 46 00:03:02,980 --> 00:03:06,000 And when I entered, I went up the stairs. 47 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,200 Now, these stairs were rather steep, wooden, crickety. 48 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,900 Couldn't walk up them without making noise. 49 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,660 I went upstairs and I saw that he was on the bed. 50 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:21,960 That was dark. 51 00:03:22,460 --> 00:03:23,640 So I called his name. 52 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:24,340 Joe, Joe. 53 00:03:25,300 --> 00:03:26,760 Joe, get up. 54 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:28,000 You awake? 55 00:03:28,180 --> 00:03:28,660 You all right? 56 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:29,280 Joe. 57 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:31,500 There was no response. 58 00:03:32,980 --> 00:03:37,320 So I went over and I put my two fingers, my index finger and my middle finger on his back. 59 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:44,160 And at that point is when I realized something was terribly wrong here. 60 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:45,420 And he was cold to the touch. 61 00:03:46,420 --> 00:03:46,940 So... 62 00:03:46,940 --> 00:03:49,720 Our people got a call. 63 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:56,520 The officers took a look at the scene, found Joe Nowinski face down in his bed, 64 00:03:58,180 --> 00:04:03,320 bleeding from the area of his ear and apparently deceased. 65 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,760 When we entered the crime scene, it was in disarray. 66 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,040 They didn't find any sign of force entry. 67 00:04:12,540 --> 00:04:14,300 Clothes strewn about, etc. 68 00:04:15,100 --> 00:04:17,220 The wallet was left open. 69 00:04:17,660 --> 00:04:22,220 It's hard to tell if something is missing because we don't know what's normally at the scene. 70 00:04:22,220 --> 00:04:26,920 So initially, the thought is, well, was there a struggle? 71 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:30,240 Was there a dispute that went on? 72 00:04:31,380 --> 00:04:34,160 However, the body tells a different story. 73 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:44,540 Joe was laying in bed, partially undressed and covered by a blanket, suggesting that at the time he was probably asleep. 74 00:04:44,540 --> 00:04:47,980 About midnight was the approximate time of death. 75 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:50,140 And he was a big guy. 76 00:04:50,260 --> 00:04:56,140 So if, in fact, he had been awakened while the assailants were present, 77 00:04:57,280 --> 00:04:59,740 there would have been a struggle and there would have been a fight. 78 00:05:00,180 --> 00:05:01,800 And the scene would have been much different. 79 00:05:02,540 --> 00:05:07,600 So what we took away was that he was basically executed while he was sleeping. 80 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:14,020 We could see there was some copper bullet fragments present on and near the body. 81 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,520 And there were little bits of paper surrounding his head. 82 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:27,160 One curiosity reported to the scene was the presence of a business card on the side of Joe's head. 83 00:05:27,500 --> 00:05:28,920 The card was kind of a mystery. 84 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,220 The name of their company was Payne Realty. 85 00:05:34,220 --> 00:05:45,060 Now, spelled differently than Payne, P-A-I-N, but the significance of the word Payne may be connected in some way. 86 00:05:45,260 --> 00:05:50,040 Maybe the suspect left it as an indication that, yeah, I'm going to deliver some Payne. 87 00:05:52,540 --> 00:05:59,740 The murder of Joe Nowinski was a rarity and not something we see often, especially in West Hartford. 88 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,120 West Hartford is a suburb of the city of Hartford. 89 00:06:05,180 --> 00:06:06,960 It's a pretty safe town. 90 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,280 We'd get a murder maybe every other year. 91 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:12,560 It was a whodunit to start with. 92 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:20,160 So the officers walked into the victim's friends, relatives, and associates because they didn't shed any light on the incident. 93 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:32,340 I met Joe like 56 years ago. 94 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,160 He was 14, I was 10. 95 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,700 You know, we're riding bikes, playing basketball. 96 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:38,300 We're always at one another's house. 97 00:06:38,300 --> 00:06:47,620 As we got a little older, probably around 12, 13 years old, we dated for pretty much six years, on and off, and then we got married a year after high school. 98 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:49,360 I was 19. 99 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,320 Joey was, what, 22, 23 when we got married? 100 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,720 That's our wedding photo. 101 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:07,080 So he was just really caring and made me feel, you know, that he was just the one that I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life. 102 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,440 And we talked about having a family and having kids and things like that. 103 00:07:12,020 --> 00:07:15,320 It just got to the point later on, I guess we kind of just, like, grew apart. 104 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:17,080 We were divorced. 105 00:07:18,100 --> 00:07:21,260 We were married pretty much probably about almost three years, three and a half years. 106 00:07:21,260 --> 00:07:27,980 I, to this day, believed that he loved me and he still, but we were just better friends than we were as husband and wife. 107 00:07:28,660 --> 00:07:32,360 Joe never remarried or had children, but he loved his family. 108 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,440 Uncle Joey was a big kid. 109 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:38,900 He just liked to have fun. 110 00:07:39,260 --> 00:07:43,500 He had to be the center of attention, like the biggest personality in the room. 111 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,380 And he just, he didn't grow up. 112 00:07:45,380 --> 00:07:53,400 And even, like, I was looking at some pictures, and it's the five siblings, and it's a picture of them all as little kids. 113 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,840 And he's standing behind them, like, making a pose. 114 00:07:58,160 --> 00:07:59,880 And that's so him, even as a kid. 115 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:01,500 Joe is my uncle. 116 00:08:01,980 --> 00:08:03,400 He was definitely the fun uncle. 117 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,340 He was the guy with the loud car, boats, motorcycles. 118 00:08:07,980 --> 00:08:14,020 One of the things I think about the most when I think about him is my grandmother yelling at him for driving too fast, 119 00:08:14,020 --> 00:08:16,320 because you can usually hear him coming up the street. 120 00:08:19,580 --> 00:08:27,360 When we were crazy kids growing up, his true passion was cars had to have a high-performance motor, 121 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,520 had to have the loud exhaust. 122 00:08:29,980 --> 00:08:34,220 My brother Steve owned a car that he used to drag race. 123 00:08:34,980 --> 00:08:36,080 And we did a lot of things. 124 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:43,260 A lot of boating, a lot of amusement parks, a lot of racing, a lot of demolition derbies. 125 00:08:43,260 --> 00:08:44,520 He's, that's one. 126 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,680 And he used to go blue fishing. 127 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:50,260 Oh, my God. 128 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,460 You know how you know Joe was on the boat? 129 00:08:54,220 --> 00:08:55,900 Big blue, yeah, big blue. 130 00:08:56,060 --> 00:08:58,120 He'd be yelling, oh, my God, he'd clear the boat out, right? 131 00:08:58,740 --> 00:09:00,240 Just so you could get his side of the boat. 132 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:00,440 Yeah. 133 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:01,340 Big mouth. 134 00:09:01,940 --> 00:09:03,340 Big, big, big, large mouth. 135 00:09:03,420 --> 00:09:04,240 He had to be noticed. 136 00:09:04,540 --> 00:09:05,280 And he was. 137 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,260 I think Uncle Joey lived his life to the fullest. 138 00:09:08,500 --> 00:09:13,700 Every time I think Uncle Joey, if I just remember back to when I was little, it's always fun things that I remember. 139 00:09:14,180 --> 00:09:15,940 I just remember happiness and love. 140 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:19,220 And that's all I want him to be remembered. 141 00:09:19,220 --> 00:09:26,660 It breaks my heart that he's, most people only know him as a murder victim. 142 00:09:28,020 --> 00:09:31,880 When they said they found Joe, that he was dead, they said he was shot. 143 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:32,680 I didn't want to know. 144 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:36,720 Because I didn't want to remember him that last time I saw him. 145 00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:39,260 I wanted to remember how I knew him before. 146 00:09:40,020 --> 00:09:43,500 Not seeing him with a bullet in his head and laying in his bed. 147 00:09:44,300 --> 00:09:46,360 I didn't want that. 148 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,620 I want to remember him like you see him in there with that smile, this gold chain. 149 00:09:57,020 --> 00:09:57,800 He's loved. 150 00:09:58,540 --> 00:09:59,740 He's still loved. 151 00:09:59,740 --> 00:10:08,400 After his murder, there was lots of questions, you know, why. 152 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,320 I didn't know if there was somebody trying to get revenge on him. 153 00:10:12,740 --> 00:10:14,920 Were they going to try to hurt someone else in the family? 154 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,300 A lot of us all went into hiding at that point. 155 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:27,260 We kind of stayed home and my mother said, Raymond, watch your back because you have no idea who or what or when it might be coming for you or anybody else. 156 00:10:29,740 --> 00:10:34,360 The investigators really were at a loss for what this might have been. 157 00:10:34,620 --> 00:10:41,300 They obviously go speak to various people to try to find out if there was any ongoing beefs or anything like that. 158 00:10:41,300 --> 00:10:48,080 They also now look into the business card from Payne Real Estate and, you know, whether that had any role. 159 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:54,180 We did connect with the owner of the company and he had stated that Joe and Penn wanted to buy some property. 160 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,900 And it didn't work out, but he took his business card and he had nothing to do with it. 161 00:11:00,180 --> 00:11:02,640 You know, everything's a building block in an investigation. 162 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:09,500 You start from the body, work your way out, and try to figure out what has meaning in a crime scene and what doesn't. 163 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,980 There was not any forced entry in this situation. 164 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,640 And, you know, it appears Mr. Nowinski knew his attacker. 165 00:11:20,340 --> 00:11:24,040 Investigators learned that Joe, the deceased, had a girlfriend. 166 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,600 And Rosemary Cusano. 167 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:35,380 She was 30s, tall, long, flowing hair, sexy looking. 168 00:11:38,380 --> 00:11:43,700 You see, wear a lot of lipstick, real deep red lipstick all the time. 169 00:11:44,140 --> 00:11:45,880 Hey, kiss that broad, you're going to be red all over. 170 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:51,040 I know Joe was very much in love with her. 171 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:53,280 How could he not? 172 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:54,600 She was a very good looking woman. 173 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:02,480 From what I know, from what I've seen of Rose with Joe, being how long they were together, 174 00:12:02,780 --> 00:12:04,200 for me it wasn't long. 175 00:12:04,980 --> 00:12:07,120 Because Joe just brought her on. 176 00:12:07,620 --> 00:12:13,800 I'd say, if anything, a couple of months, maybe a couple of months, 177 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,600 we would meet her at parties. 178 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:21,660 My wife would talk to her, play sports, we'd eat, we'd drink, we'd have fun. 179 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,760 I know she was very, like, flirtatious with his friends and stuff. 180 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,040 One day, my aunt was standing behind Rosemary and one of my uncle's friends. 181 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,160 And I guess she made a very sexual comment to his friend. 182 00:12:37,660 --> 00:12:43,240 So I think that thought process with some of my family was that she was like that. 183 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,300 Um, to two men. 184 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:47,620 We all understood how she was. 185 00:12:47,660 --> 00:12:50,080 She liked to flirt with the guys and stuff like that. 186 00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:55,080 Hitting on guys, like, um, hugging them, putting her arm around, you know, talking with them. 187 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,560 Not meaning anything, just to tease Joe. 188 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,640 He was a little bit jealous like that, you know? 189 00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:05,220 When an investigator hears that someone is talking about maybe a loved one, 190 00:13:05,260 --> 00:13:06,680 but not in a very positive way, 191 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:10,920 that's a person that I want to talk with. 192 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,860 We actually contacted his girlfriend, Rosemary. 193 00:13:16,700 --> 00:13:22,560 She was very forthcoming with information, but she didn't seem upset. 194 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,660 Rosemary gave us a background on their relationship. 195 00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:28,260 It was complicated. 196 00:13:30,180 --> 00:13:32,820 Their relationship was pretty hot and cold. 197 00:13:34,940 --> 00:13:38,120 I think they were both very emotional people. 198 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,260 And she, you know, shared that he could be verbally abusive at times 199 00:13:44,260 --> 00:13:47,560 and sometimes physically abusive. 200 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:56,000 Yeah, I think I do recall hearing that. 201 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,780 Joe would sometimes get loud with her for various reasons. 202 00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:04,620 There was a time where I was at the shop working 203 00:14:04,620 --> 00:14:08,020 and they were clearly in a shouting match. 204 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,240 It clearly elevated. 205 00:14:10,660 --> 00:14:12,400 She was hands-on all over him. 206 00:14:12,660 --> 00:14:14,740 You know, of course, he, you know, puts his hands up 207 00:14:14,740 --> 00:14:18,100 and tries to get away and, you know, hold her back a little bit. 208 00:14:18,260 --> 00:14:20,320 And I stepped in between them and I said, 209 00:14:20,380 --> 00:14:21,560 no, this has got to stop her. 210 00:14:21,660 --> 00:14:23,180 Joe, this has got to stop her. I'm leaving. 211 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,260 I don't know what it was pertaining to, 212 00:14:28,060 --> 00:14:30,540 but it was a time that I was very uncomfortable 213 00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:32,420 and they knew it. 214 00:14:32,420 --> 00:14:34,900 It slowed down at that point. 215 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,860 They did stop the bickering 216 00:14:36,860 --> 00:14:39,220 and we'll leave it at that. 217 00:14:40,460 --> 00:14:41,580 This piques our interest. 218 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:43,800 We want to try to confirm. 219 00:14:44,380 --> 00:14:47,700 And there was another friend of the victim 220 00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:52,260 telling us that Joe treated Rosemary very bad. 221 00:14:53,860 --> 00:14:55,500 This was Mark Pascual. 222 00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:59,420 He had a small engine repair shop. 223 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,100 He worked on boats, boat motors, 224 00:15:02,620 --> 00:15:05,780 and jet skis and snowmobiles. 225 00:15:06,580 --> 00:15:08,240 I don't think particularly prosperous. 226 00:15:08,660 --> 00:15:10,720 He lived in his parents' house in the basement. 227 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,500 Mark Pascual was someone Joe met up at the lake. 228 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:20,400 Joe was having trouble with his boat. 229 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,620 Went over to the marina to see if they could see 230 00:15:23,620 --> 00:15:25,220 what was wrong with it, and that's where he met Mark. 231 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,720 Joe had a boat, and Mark had a marine repair shop. 232 00:15:32,060 --> 00:15:34,780 So the friendship was probably more convenient 233 00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:39,400 for Joe to get some free work done on his boat. 234 00:15:39,940 --> 00:15:41,760 He was, he's a weird-looking guy. 235 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,940 He's a pretty short man. 236 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,580 His hair's really, really curly, 237 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,040 kind of all over the place. 238 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,180 He's not the most attractive being. 239 00:15:52,620 --> 00:15:55,080 Mark, I call him crazy eyes, huh? 240 00:15:56,540 --> 00:15:58,780 He did have one wandering eye. 241 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,580 Joe, I said, Joe, man, this guy ain't for you, man. 242 00:16:01,620 --> 00:16:02,360 What are you hanging with him for? 243 00:16:02,620 --> 00:16:03,980 Well, you got the marina. 244 00:16:04,100 --> 00:16:05,780 Get my boat fixed for nothing, Steve. 245 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:06,680 Take care of me. 246 00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:07,720 I said, I don't know, Joe. 247 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:09,460 I don't know, Joe. 248 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:10,460 This guy ain't too slick. 249 00:16:10,460 --> 00:16:13,000 We were talking to him, 250 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,380 and Mark admitted that he knew Rosemary and Joe. 251 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,160 Mark said he said he treated her violently, 252 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,280 and perhaps there was some fear of that. 253 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,400 We delved a little further with Rosemary about Joe. 254 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,460 It turns out Rosemary was the last person 255 00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:35,960 to actually have eyes on, see him alive. 256 00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:49,180 This case, Rosemary told us earlier that day. 257 00:16:49,580 --> 00:16:51,820 She had stopped to see him. 258 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,260 She went upstairs, and his door was open. 259 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,360 Our apartment was in disarray. 260 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:06,080 He was lying in the bed, and she surprised him, 261 00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:07,540 and he's like, what the hell are you doing here? 262 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,740 And she goes, the door was open. 263 00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:11,020 I was calling you. 264 00:17:11,100 --> 00:17:11,720 The door is open. 265 00:17:12,020 --> 00:17:14,720 And he said something like, well, that's not like me. 266 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:20,220 And I think she saw a joint in the ashtray or something. 267 00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:23,900 And he became very irate. 268 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,720 He yelled and screamed at her, told her to get the hell out, 269 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,200 pushed her against the wall. 270 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:28,920 She left. 271 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,520 And then they spoke a little bit later, 272 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,460 and they went to dinner together, 273 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:35,740 like nothing ever happened. 274 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,480 Rosemary, she had kids, and she told us 275 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,200 he had all kinds of presents wrapped up 276 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,520 for all the kids that night. 277 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,480 Joe gave them early Christmas presents. 278 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:57,920 And as they leave, the last thing Joe says to her 279 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,840 is something to the effect of, have a nice life. 280 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,600 I think he realized that he and Rosemary 281 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:10,660 had come to the end. 282 00:18:11,460 --> 00:18:14,340 He gave those presents to the boys 283 00:18:14,340 --> 00:18:15,520 two weeks before Christmas. 284 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,460 Maybe Joe had decided that he was done with Rosemary, 285 00:18:21,460 --> 00:18:25,340 Was there some motive here? 286 00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:28,180 It wouldn't be abnormal for her 287 00:18:28,180 --> 00:18:29,620 to have access to his apartment. 288 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,440 When they had this information, 289 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,060 their first thoughts were, 290 00:18:34,740 --> 00:18:36,740 did Rosemary kill Joe? 291 00:18:45,180 --> 00:18:47,440 When the investigator hears that someone 292 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,220 has placed themselves at the scene, 293 00:18:49,540 --> 00:18:50,560 it piques our interest. 294 00:18:51,460 --> 00:18:55,340 Oftentimes, people that are closer to the victim 295 00:18:55,340 --> 00:18:56,480 are often looked at. 296 00:18:57,420 --> 00:19:00,220 But you don't want to go necessarily with one theory 297 00:19:00,220 --> 00:19:02,860 and try to make your evidence fit that theory. 298 00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:05,060 You want to be open to any possibility. 299 00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:10,820 I believe it was in the area of 8 or 9 p.m. 300 00:19:10,820 --> 00:19:14,700 that Rosemary had last time that Rosemary had last seen Joe. 301 00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:17,580 And she goes home with her boys. 302 00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:21,460 In this case, we conduct our interviews, 303 00:19:21,460 --> 00:19:22,460 and we check with alibis, 304 00:19:22,460 --> 00:19:26,340 and we verified that she was telling the truth. 305 00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:32,520 And the problem was one of Joe Nowenski's employees was supposed to work that night, 306 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,560 and so Joe had left some keys for him in the mailbox. 307 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:41,240 But the keys were not in the usual place. 308 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,160 One can assume it could have been used by the killers to get in, 309 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:46,760 especially to get in quietly. 310 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:52,980 It was well known that Joe kept a spare key in his mailbox. 311 00:19:54,980 --> 00:19:58,700 If anyone knew that, could access the apartment. 312 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:05,420 And at this point, we had nothing to indicate that Rosemary was directly involved. 313 00:20:05,420 --> 00:20:12,560 But during our interview with Rosemary, we learned... 314 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,060 Joe had some dicey relationships with other people. 315 00:20:15,060 --> 00:20:17,660 He sold a little weed, sold a little coke. 316 00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:20,360 Bone trucking, turning back odometers. 317 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,160 Who's the hell saying that? The cops are saying that? No! 318 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,100 I was a mechanic for Joe, 319 00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:29,620 and at no time did Joe ever ask me to roll back an odometer. 320 00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:33,200 Stolen merchandise, gambling, sale of false ID. 321 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,640 One of the early concerns of the investigators was there might be too many suspects 322 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,560 just based on him being a jerk to people around. 323 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,720 And his lifestyle, it was somewhat of a mystery. 324 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,300 He had told some friends over a period of a couple weeks 325 00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:54,200 that a couple of his cars in his driveway, the tires had been slashed. 326 00:20:55,980 --> 00:20:58,200 The window in the garage was broken. 327 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:04,220 The incidents occurred probably a week prior to the murder. 328 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,780 He thought somebody had targeted him. 329 00:21:08,780 --> 00:21:17,340 He was concerned that if somebody is causing property damage, 330 00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:20,500 will that lead to violent actions. 331 00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:27,560 So he inquired with somebody about some sort of surveillance or security system, 332 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,960 but that never came to fruition. 333 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,880 It piques my interest, 334 00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:38,560 but we were unable to determine who slashed those tires. 335 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,160 However, we interviewed Rosemary again, 336 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:49,680 and Rosemary shared with us that several weeks leading up to the homicide, 337 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,940 there was a small family outing that Rosemary, 338 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:58,920 I think her mother and her sister and her kids, 339 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,720 they took a day trip to Yankee Candle up in Massachusetts. 340 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:08,900 And Joe didn't go, but his friend Mark did, 341 00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:13,640 which was just kind of odd. 342 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,560 And then we said, well, tell us more about Mark. 343 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,220 Rosemary was complaining to Mark about this relationship she had, 344 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,400 that Joseph Nowinski did not treat her so well. 345 00:22:25,580 --> 00:22:28,800 At one point, Mark says to her, 346 00:22:28,940 --> 00:22:30,780 I know Joe treats her horribly. 347 00:22:30,780 --> 00:22:36,360 And then Mark told Rosemary that he had hired a private investigator to follow Nowinski. 348 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,740 And it turns out he's going into Hartford and he's picking up prostitutes 349 00:22:41,740 --> 00:22:44,040 and taking them home and having sex with them. 350 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,140 Prostitutes, I have no knowledge of that. 351 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:47,780 I have no knowledge. 352 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,900 Why would you go hire some prostitute when you can have any picket of litter you want? 353 00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:53,800 Come on. 354 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,520 I know Joe very well. 355 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,700 He was not running around with no hookers. 356 00:22:58,180 --> 00:23:00,880 I hope I'm not wrong, but I don't think so. 357 00:23:01,580 --> 00:23:02,460 I've never seen it. 358 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,500 So when Rosemary recounts that conversation with Mark about, you know, 359 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,420 a private eye observing and confirming that Joe is looking for prostitutes, 360 00:23:15,420 --> 00:23:19,800 she presented to us that, that really angered her. 361 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,400 And she makes the statement that I should have somebody beat him up. 362 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:36,740 And Mark's reply is, better yet, why don't you have someone put a bullet in his head? 363 00:23:36,740 --> 00:23:42,380 That's an aha moment. 364 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,180 And that's pretty close to what happened. 365 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,700 So it was a statement of some significance to us. 366 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,900 And all the conversation that Joe thought somebody was out to get him, 367 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:01,300 not in the slightest did he ever inform anyone that he thought Mark was that person. 368 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:09,460 Two days after the murder, he was interviewed in our police station again. 369 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,080 Once my partner and I started speaking with Mark Pascal, 370 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,480 Mark was forthcoming with information regarding his relationship with Joe. 371 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,840 He admitted that he knew Rosemary. 372 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,340 He hung out with Joe, knew him for about two years. 373 00:24:27,540 --> 00:24:29,660 But he denied any involvement in the murder. 374 00:24:31,300 --> 00:24:36,340 And his alibi, which, if you could call it that, was that he was working. 375 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,020 And he went home and watched TV. 376 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:39,860 And it's not a rock solid alibi. 377 00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:41,800 But a lot of people do have that. 378 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,260 People that live alone, for instance. 379 00:24:44,780 --> 00:24:47,580 Then he denied a statement about a bullet in the head. 380 00:24:47,860 --> 00:24:51,480 But then he admitted that he did tell Rosemary about the private investigator 381 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,960 and then revealed to us that there was no private investigator. 382 00:24:56,540 --> 00:24:59,820 That was a story he told Rosemary. 383 00:24:59,820 --> 00:25:06,620 And then Mark was characterizing his and Rosemary's relationship 384 00:25:06,620 --> 00:25:09,700 as a romantic, sexual relationship. 385 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,300 This dude's so full of shit, man. 386 00:25:13,780 --> 00:25:14,260 Really. 387 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,760 He had no sticky relationship with her. 388 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:17,700 Come on, man. 389 00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:26,400 In addition to that trip in Massachusetts, 390 00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:32,480 in November, he and Rosemary went away for a weekend up in Maine. 391 00:25:35,420 --> 00:25:37,780 And they had sex. 392 00:25:39,220 --> 00:25:42,400 And I went to Mars recently, and I got some popcorn, 393 00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:43,520 and I watched a good movie. 394 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,080 You won't believe that one, will you? 395 00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:54,400 We got no indication that that was the relationship from Rosemary. 396 00:25:54,620 --> 00:26:00,240 And that's an indication of us that Mark may be in a little bit of a fantasy land. 397 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:08,700 So we want to be able to gauge whether he is telling the truth, 398 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,460 whether he's being deceptive or not. 399 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:16,680 We briefly spoke with him, and we offered him the polygraph. 400 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:24,620 Now, the results of the polygraph are not admissible in court. 401 00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:28,000 However, it is a tool to detect deception. 402 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:33,680 And he showed many signs of deception. 403 00:26:37,380 --> 00:26:39,960 We confronted him with the discrepancies. 404 00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:42,560 Listen, you're deceptive here, you're deceptive there. 405 00:26:43,580 --> 00:26:46,340 Either you thought you were doing something good, 406 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,280 you thought you were saving this woman from domestic violence, 407 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,980 or you're a cold-blooded murderer when you shot the guy in the head. 408 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:55,920 What happened? 409 00:26:58,300 --> 00:26:59,800 He said, you know what? 410 00:27:01,140 --> 00:27:03,080 I'm going to tell you everything. 411 00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:05,400 I'm going to tell you everything. 412 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:07,720 I don't want a lawyer. 413 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,600 I just want to get it over with. 414 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:17,860 The investigator called me at home, 415 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,700 and his exact words were, 416 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,440 we got a break in the case. 417 00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:24,200 All the original theories about who this might have been 418 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,220 went out the window, and it became a murder for hire. 419 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,640 During our interview with Mark, 420 00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,400 he said, I know who did it. 421 00:27:33,980 --> 00:27:37,260 Two young, I think, 18, 19-year-old youth 422 00:27:37,260 --> 00:27:39,320 who he knew from being around town, 423 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,820 someone named Eduardo, 424 00:27:41,340 --> 00:27:43,360 and someone named Matt. 425 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,280 I am Matthew Terrell's cousin. 426 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,860 We were pretty close as a family growing up. 427 00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:55,860 We would all come gather together 428 00:27:55,860 --> 00:27:59,040 for holiday dinners, family picnics. 429 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,540 I was the only girl of all of the kids. 430 00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:08,100 Matt would always make sure that I was okay, 431 00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:11,300 and he would always make sure that I was included, 432 00:28:11,620 --> 00:28:18,240 and he was just, he was just a kind soul. 433 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:20,560 I'm sorry. 434 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:27,860 When Matt transitioned into, like, middle school and high school, 435 00:28:28,180 --> 00:28:31,360 there were a little bit more unsavory things 436 00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:33,120 that he might have been exposed to. 437 00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:36,920 He did spend some time in and out of Juvenile Hall, 438 00:28:37,660 --> 00:28:41,520 and I don't think back then I really knew 439 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,500 how much he was struggling in his personal life. 440 00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:47,200 Maybe things would have turned out differently. 441 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,020 If you're not in the criminal life, 442 00:28:53,420 --> 00:28:57,080 you probably don't know anybody who will kill for hire. 443 00:28:57,540 --> 00:29:01,540 You can't go on Angie's list and look for a four-star review. 444 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,160 You have to ask around. 445 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:10,320 Initially, Mark said he knew Eduardo Santiago 446 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,880 from his small engine repair or boat shop, 447 00:29:16,220 --> 00:29:19,920 and Matthew seemed to be more a friend of Eduardo Santiago. 448 00:29:20,580 --> 00:29:23,040 Mark tells them, this girl, Rosemary, 449 00:29:23,220 --> 00:29:25,780 she's got a really, you know, bad boyfriend. 450 00:29:26,380 --> 00:29:27,260 He beats her up. 451 00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:28,000 He's horrible. 452 00:29:28,220 --> 00:29:29,000 He's awful. 453 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,260 He asked them if they would be interested 454 00:29:31,260 --> 00:29:36,480 or they knew somebody who would kill someone for money. 455 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:43,940 And the response was, well, what do you got and how much? 456 00:29:46,220 --> 00:29:48,880 So the plan was to use the rifle, 457 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,640 but it's going to be loud, 458 00:29:50,740 --> 00:29:52,580 and they would have to, you know, 459 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,060 develop some kind of silencer or suppressor. 460 00:29:55,260 --> 00:29:56,760 This is a book called . 461 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,160 It's got a lot of how-tos for various dirty tricks. 462 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,180 On how to manufacture drugs, weapons, 463 00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:06,760 and one of the areas is how to make homemade silencers. 464 00:30:07,420 --> 00:30:11,520 And the book was readily available at libraries, bookstores. 465 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,620 Apparently, Eduardo may have read that 466 00:30:14,620 --> 00:30:17,680 to create a homemade silencer 467 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,500 with an empty soda bottle, 468 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:20,780 taped to the end of the barrel, 469 00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:22,200 and filled with paper towels. 470 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,580 And that also explains the little pieces of paper 471 00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:27,660 that they found on Joe Nowinski that night. 472 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,300 The night of the murder, Mark drove the two of them 473 00:30:32,300 --> 00:30:35,520 about a half a block away from the victim's house. 474 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,640 The three of them walked to Joe's residence. 475 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,600 They took the key that was in the mailbox, 476 00:30:44,540 --> 00:30:45,740 and that's where Joe kept it. 477 00:30:45,740 --> 00:30:48,880 Who's going to look in your mailbox for a key? 478 00:30:49,060 --> 00:30:51,660 The only thing I can think is that Mark knew. 479 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,920 Joe had put his keys in the mailbox. 480 00:30:56,060 --> 00:31:00,520 Both Eduardo and Matthew went upstairs. 481 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,460 Mark claimed he waited outside, 482 00:31:02,820 --> 00:31:04,280 and he heard a muffled noise, 483 00:31:05,140 --> 00:31:07,000 and the two men returned to him 484 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,100 and said, he's done. 485 00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:13,560 In some ways, it's a relief 486 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,500 that you finally got the story, 487 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,620 you finally are on the right track, 488 00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:19,320 but it doesn't end here. 489 00:31:20,940 --> 00:31:23,640 Mr. Tyrell was arrested by the detectives. 490 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,080 Also, our department sent a team out 491 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,340 to Mr. Santiago's house. 492 00:31:35,140 --> 00:31:37,080 And found him asleep in bed. 493 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,720 And in one of the bedrooms, 494 00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:41,620 they found a .223 rifle, 495 00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:43,960 which matched the type of firearm 496 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,520 that was used in the killing of Joe. 497 00:31:47,380 --> 00:31:49,480 They also found additional rounds 498 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,380 in Eduardo's house. 499 00:31:53,420 --> 00:31:57,120 Eduardo admitted to being at the scene. 500 00:31:57,420 --> 00:31:59,520 The business card turned out as more 501 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,380 when they went through his wallet, 502 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,700 the card fell out and fell onto him. 503 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,780 And then he claimed that it was Matthew 504 00:32:06,780 --> 00:32:08,540 who shot Joe. 505 00:32:09,020 --> 00:32:10,600 Matt pointed the finger at him. 506 00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:12,000 He pointed the finger at Matt. 507 00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:15,940 However, Eduardo's palm prints 508 00:32:15,940 --> 00:32:18,520 were lifted off of the murder weapon. 509 00:32:19,660 --> 00:32:22,420 But there's also a lot more evidence 510 00:32:22,420 --> 00:32:23,740 related to the crime. 511 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:25,680 We got the call from the lab. 512 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:26,860 My investigator told me 513 00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:28,040 they had found markings 514 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,180 on some of the projectiles and casings, 515 00:32:31,180 --> 00:32:33,920 and it was something I had never seen before. 516 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:34,560 He goes, 517 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,500 somebody etched a name in one of the bullets. 518 00:32:40,860 --> 00:32:41,880 What's the name? 519 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,380 J-O-E. 520 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,480 So one of those bullets 521 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,380 had the victim's name on it. 522 00:32:56,380 --> 00:32:58,620 Our belief is that Eduardo Santiago 523 00:32:58,620 --> 00:33:01,920 had carved Joe's name on these rounds. 524 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,100 He not only carved it on the cartridge, 525 00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:06,400 which is fairly large, 526 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,840 but he had actually carved Joe 527 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,920 on a round that was about that big. 528 00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:16,040 It's a Hollywood idea 529 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,900 of having a bullet with someone's name on it, 530 00:33:17,940 --> 00:33:18,720 but in this case, 531 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,200 Eduardo Santiago made it very literal. 532 00:33:21,860 --> 00:33:25,580 It just shows how twisted these people are. 533 00:33:25,580 --> 00:33:27,180 Like, no nice kid 534 00:33:27,180 --> 00:33:29,600 is going to go do something like this. 535 00:33:30,340 --> 00:33:33,300 And when you hear what they did it for, 536 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:34,460 what the price was, 537 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:35,580 you scratch your head. 538 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,240 Mark, we asked him, 539 00:33:38,420 --> 00:33:39,560 well, how much? 540 00:33:39,740 --> 00:33:40,920 What was the payment? 541 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,120 What was, you know, how much? 542 00:33:42,140 --> 00:33:42,800 And he said, well, 543 00:33:44,380 --> 00:33:45,960 they didn't want cash 544 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,380 because they were interested 545 00:33:47,380 --> 00:33:50,460 in a snowmobile I had in my garage. 546 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:54,760 And they pointed to 547 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:55,420 the one he had 548 00:33:55,420 --> 00:33:57,180 and he told them. 549 00:33:57,420 --> 00:33:58,300 It needs to transmit 550 00:33:58,300 --> 00:33:59,420 and it goes, well, we'll take it. 551 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:01,800 That's what it comes down to, 552 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:03,720 a broken snowmobile. 553 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,920 We were all taken back 554 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,400 that somebody could kill 555 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,900 for a broken-down snowmobile. 556 00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:11,000 And that's all they kept saying 557 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:11,940 was a snowmobile, 558 00:34:12,140 --> 00:34:13,280 a broken-down snowmobile. 559 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:13,920 I'm like, what? 560 00:34:14,820 --> 00:34:15,600 There's a lot of questions 561 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:16,560 I don't understand. 562 00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:20,860 Doesn't add up, Mark and Joe, 563 00:34:21,180 --> 00:34:22,200 if they were friends, 564 00:34:22,940 --> 00:34:24,500 friends help friends. 565 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,340 Friends don't kill friends. 566 00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:30,060 Or was there something else 567 00:34:30,060 --> 00:34:32,740 that was causing this? 568 00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:34,000 So you would think 569 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,180 the link is Rosemary. 570 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,900 Many murder-for-hire plots 571 00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:42,580 start with a spouse, 572 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,080 a girlfriend, a boyfriend. 573 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,780 Did Rosemary set this up? 574 00:34:46,780 --> 00:34:54,040 What are your feelings 575 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,760 about Rosemary? 576 00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:06,220 In my heart, 577 00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:08,000 in my heart only, 578 00:35:08,380 --> 00:35:10,460 I think that she fueled the fire. 579 00:35:11,140 --> 00:35:12,820 She fueled the fire on this. 580 00:35:12,820 --> 00:35:14,760 And there's a lot of us 581 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,200 still wondering about this. 582 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,580 If Joe and Rosemary 583 00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:21,700 were really going through hard times, 584 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,120 wouldn't it have been just easier 585 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,220 to wait it out for Mark? 586 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,240 If Roe and Joe were going to separate, 587 00:35:29,740 --> 00:35:32,580 then Mark would eventually 588 00:35:32,580 --> 00:35:33,960 have Roe anyhow? 589 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,860 It just doesn't make sense. 590 00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:38,140 I just feel that 591 00:35:38,140 --> 00:35:40,140 if this guy was because of Rosemary, 592 00:35:40,300 --> 00:35:41,240 is this why Joe died 593 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:42,120 because of Rosemary? 594 00:35:42,540 --> 00:35:43,220 So some reason, 595 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:44,080 I just feel, 596 00:35:44,740 --> 00:35:44,940 well, 597 00:35:44,980 --> 00:35:46,420 if he never hooked up with her, 598 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,640 that he would be alive today. 599 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:53,040 Hi, Rosemary. 600 00:35:53,260 --> 00:35:54,100 This is the producer 601 00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:55,040 with the documentary. 602 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,800 I've been outside your apartment 603 00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,220 for two hours. 604 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:01,020 I'm waiting to take you 605 00:36:01,020 --> 00:36:01,700 to your interview. 606 00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:10,660 So we had dealings 607 00:36:10,660 --> 00:36:11,620 with Rosemary Cassano 608 00:36:11,620 --> 00:36:13,200 when she spoke to us 609 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:14,420 at the state's attorney's office, 610 00:36:14,620 --> 00:36:16,060 very much in love with Joe. 611 00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:17,640 Who could be gruff 612 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,340 and verbally abusive, 613 00:36:19,940 --> 00:36:20,820 but a nice guy. 614 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,000 She said he's a nice guy. 615 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:22,960 I don't know 616 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,180 that there was any 617 00:36:24,180 --> 00:36:25,540 outward signs 618 00:36:25,540 --> 00:36:26,600 of domestic violence, 619 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,180 but the way Mark 620 00:36:28,180 --> 00:36:29,400 perceived their relationship 621 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:30,380 was a lot different 622 00:36:30,380 --> 00:36:31,660 than what Rosemary 623 00:36:31,660 --> 00:36:33,420 described their relationship as. 624 00:36:34,260 --> 00:36:36,040 He felt he was 625 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,300 Rosemary's savior. 626 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:42,460 Mark thought that 627 00:36:42,460 --> 00:36:44,940 he and Rosemary 628 00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:46,620 were going to have 629 00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:47,220 a life together. 630 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,040 that if Joe 631 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,040 was out of the picture, 632 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,420 he and Rosemary 633 00:36:52,420 --> 00:36:54,020 could go off 634 00:36:54,020 --> 00:36:54,680 into the sunset. 635 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,760 Mark almost became 636 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,640 proud of what he had done 637 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,160 because at the end 638 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:01,940 of that interview, 639 00:37:01,940 --> 00:37:03,060 he said, 640 00:37:03,180 --> 00:37:04,420 can I call Rosemary 641 00:37:04,420 --> 00:37:05,280 to tell her 642 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:06,260 that he had set 643 00:37:06,260 --> 00:37:07,460 this whole thing up 644 00:37:07,460 --> 00:37:09,380 because he wanted to 645 00:37:09,380 --> 00:37:10,440 be the hero himself 646 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:11,060 to Rosemary? 647 00:37:11,060 --> 00:37:14,320 They thought that 648 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:15,200 very strange. 649 00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:16,900 It was almost like 650 00:37:16,900 --> 00:37:17,940 an honorable thing 651 00:37:17,940 --> 00:37:19,040 for him to have done 652 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,240 or would be seen 653 00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:20,680 as such 654 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:21,700 in Rosemary's eyes. 655 00:37:22,740 --> 00:37:23,340 Rosemary 656 00:37:23,340 --> 00:37:24,240 subsequently 657 00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:26,000 cleared of any 658 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:26,680 suspicion. 659 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:39,180 I don't feel sorry 660 00:37:39,180 --> 00:37:39,840 for Mark, no. 661 00:37:40,780 --> 00:37:41,080 No. 662 00:37:41,420 --> 00:37:42,140 Mark was the 663 00:37:42,140 --> 00:37:43,100 orchestrator of all this. 664 00:37:44,380 --> 00:37:45,500 If there wasn't Mark, 665 00:37:45,580 --> 00:37:46,600 Joe would still be here today. 666 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:48,080 That's how I feel. 667 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:54,320 Mr. Santiago elected 668 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:55,360 to go to trial. 669 00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:57,320 He was nothing 670 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:57,960 but arrogant 671 00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,160 every time 672 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:00,040 we ever saw him. 673 00:38:00,540 --> 00:38:01,500 He just had 674 00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:02,360 this smirk 675 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:03,300 on his face. 676 00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:04,160 Oh, my God. 677 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:05,300 It was, 678 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:06,200 I'll just never forget, 679 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:06,800 like, you know, 680 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:07,740 I'm a big shot. 681 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,200 I shot him type thing. 682 00:38:09,660 --> 00:38:10,500 The only one I'd say 683 00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:12,100 I did feel sorry for 684 00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:13,360 was the other one, 685 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:13,800 a Matthew. 686 00:38:14,060 --> 00:38:15,840 He looked so young. 687 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:17,560 He looked like 688 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:18,120 a little kid. 689 00:38:18,740 --> 00:38:19,560 I will say this, 690 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:20,380 Matthew Tyrell, 691 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:21,000 we approached 692 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:21,940 Matthew Tyrell, 693 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:22,900 there was nothing 694 00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:24,000 we could offer him 695 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:24,900 in terms of his 696 00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:27,000 cooperation in this case. 697 00:38:27,660 --> 00:38:29,060 And I just assumed 698 00:38:29,060 --> 00:38:29,960 when we brought him in 699 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:30,820 he was going to look at me 700 00:38:30,820 --> 00:38:31,120 and say, 701 00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:32,060 thanks, but no thanks. 702 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:34,160 I'm just going to go 703 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:34,860 serve my sentence. 704 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,000 He looked at me, 705 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:37,780 thought for a moment, 706 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,220 and then said, 707 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:39,660 you know what? 708 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:40,640 I'll testify, 709 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:41,400 it's the right thing 710 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:42,180 to do for the family. 711 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:55,860 When Matt came to court 712 00:38:55,860 --> 00:38:57,020 to testify during 713 00:38:57,020 --> 00:38:58,100 Santiago's trial, 714 00:38:58,300 --> 00:38:59,040 he read a statement. 715 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,120 He was sorry 716 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,860 for what he did, 717 00:39:02,940 --> 00:39:03,500 that he should have 718 00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:04,060 stopped it. 719 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:05,220 He apologized 720 00:39:05,220 --> 00:39:06,380 to our entire family, 721 00:39:06,620 --> 00:39:07,560 to his family, 722 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,700 and he was sobbing 723 00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:11,560 almost uncontrollably. 724 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,240 The fact that Matt 725 00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:16,680 cooperated with the police, 726 00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:18,540 it tells me that 727 00:39:18,540 --> 00:39:22,600 he is the kid 728 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:23,660 that I grew up with. 729 00:39:24,740 --> 00:39:26,400 And deep down in his heart, 730 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:28,540 he's not this person. 731 00:39:32,180 --> 00:39:33,560 I know most of us 732 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:34,920 in my family 733 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,840 think he got a bad deal. 734 00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:39,140 There's days I wonder 735 00:39:39,140 --> 00:39:41,260 if he really deserves 736 00:39:41,260 --> 00:39:42,040 to spend the rest 737 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:43,040 of his life in prison. 738 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,520 Past 25 years, 739 00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:49,040 it's still hard 740 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,260 for our family. 741 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:56,920 My oldest brother, 742 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:57,640 every year, 743 00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,140 never lets me forget. 744 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:02,780 He just says, 745 00:40:02,860 --> 00:40:03,360 he just called, 746 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:03,720 just says, 747 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:04,120 remember? 748 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:05,760 Well, today this day, 749 00:40:06,940 --> 00:40:07,520 it's the day 750 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:08,300 our brother got 751 00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:09,200 taken from us. 752 00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:12,660 My brother, 753 00:40:12,780 --> 00:40:12,960 Rick, 754 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:14,720 he loved Joe. 755 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,080 He did a lot. 756 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,400 My brother loved him. 757 00:40:22,260 --> 00:40:23,020 I feel bad. 758 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:26,240 He never forgets, 759 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:27,040 he never forgets. 760 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,040 He never forgets. 761 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,700 He never forgets 25 years. 762 00:40:31,780 --> 00:40:32,360 I've been hearing it 763 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:32,840 every year. 764 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,300 What's that tell you? 765 00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:41,380 Joe was loved. 766 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:43,920 I wish this was different. 767 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:45,500 He was here, 768 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,360 and you were interviewing him, 769 00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:49,500 and 770 00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:54,480 he loved him. 771 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,260 Joe was the nucleus. 772 00:40:58,440 --> 00:40:59,560 Joe held people together. 773 00:41:00,700 --> 00:41:02,300 And if he were here today, 774 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:04,340 he would have held 775 00:41:04,340 --> 00:41:05,260 the group together. 776 00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:09,680 It's taken 25 years. 777 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,640 But Joe Nowinski has 778 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,580 pulled us all together again 779 00:41:16,580 --> 00:41:19,680 by this documentary. 780 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:21,640 And 781 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,880 he's working from the heavens. 782 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,420 And I'm sure we all will 783 00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:30,740 cherish and honor that memory. 784 00:41:30,740 --> 00:41:31,420 He never forgets. 785 00:41:34,300 --> 00:41:38,920 He never forgets. 786 00:41:39,380 --> 00:41:40,120 He never forgets. 56340

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