All language subtitles for [English (auto-generated)] How an Execution in Texas Sparked a National Debate _ Death by Fire (full documentary) _ FRONTLINE [DownSub.com]
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Tonight on Front Line,
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the story of a fire.
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>> Fellow girls cried, "Daddy, daddy." Oh,
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and oh, when I woke up, the whole house
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was in smoke.
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>> A man accused.
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>> He was guilty.
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He really set that fire and killed those
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kids.
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>> An execution.
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>> It's really a shame we couldn't put him
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to death three times since he took three
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lives.
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and a question of guilt.
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>> There is not one iota of evidence that
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the fire was arson.
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>> That sparked a national debate. The
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state of Texas executed a man for a
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crime that they couldn't prove was
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really a crime. Tonight on Front Line,
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death by fire.
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It's small town America. It's football
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games on Friday nights.
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>> Everybody gets along. Everybody knows
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everybody.
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This is a a nice country community.
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>> Corsacana is a wonderful place to live,
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but every town has their bad people in
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it and bad things happen in every town.
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So, we're no different than anybody
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else.
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It was the 23rd of December. The Prices
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Right was on. And that's what I was
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watching.
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Two or three of the girls went out on
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the back patio and come running in the
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house and and said, "Mama, I think
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Sheila's house is on fire."
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I run to the front and out the door and
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that's when I seen Todd at his front
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door and he started screaming, "My
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babies. Oh, my babies. My babies are
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burning."
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Their neighbor, 23-year-old Cameron Todd
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Willingham, was in the house with his
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three children when the fire started.
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>> The call came across the scanner. There
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was a a house fire with possibly people
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trapped in it.
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>> I remember my mom screaming, "Go back
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in. Go go go try to get the babies."
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>> And I grabbed him. I said, "Is there
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anybody in the house?" He said, "Yes, my
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my twins are in that room right there."
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Well, I went in the front door and I
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went to the left and that's as far as I
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could get. It was completely engulfed in
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fire.
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I pulled up on the scene. U got out
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immediately started stretching the fire
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line and I made entry into the house
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through the front windows u knocking the
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fire down as I went.
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>> The first fire came out. when he was
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cradling a small child uh in his arms.
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He began to drop to one knee and as he
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began to drop to one knee uh the little
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girl's arm just just fell fell limp
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right at her side. U just you know just
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like a little ragd doll.
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I went back to the fire room looking for
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the children at that time. Chief Fog was
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in there and he had already located the
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children but they were both dead.
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Firefighters tried to save 2-year-old
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Amber, but she died shortly after
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reaching the hospital.
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All three children, Amber, Carmen, and
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Cameron, were dead.
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Their mother, Stacy, was Christmas
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shopping at a thrift store when the
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police told her.
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>> In the blackened ugliness, there are
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remnants of a fire. There are remnants
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of Christmas as well. A melted Christmas
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tree with a few ornaments. A teddy bear
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still waiting for Christmas morning. And
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there are two parents who want this
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Christmas to go away.
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>> My little girl was crying. Daddy, daddy.
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Oh, when I woke up, the whole house was
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in smoke.
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>> Todd Willingham was virtually unharmed.
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>> He did have some minor burns on on his
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shoulder and his hair was singed.
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To me, it just was not that the injuries
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were not consistent of being in a
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burning house that was so supposedly
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burning so bad that that he had to get
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out and couldn't find his kids.
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>> Around town in Corsacana, Texas,
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Willingham's lack of serious injuries
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and a night of partying after the fire
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fueled rumors.
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Immediately after the children were
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killed in the fire, he was seen at uh a
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local bar essentially uh exhibiting
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behavior that was completely
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inconsistent with a person who had lost
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his three children.
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When the Willingham children died,
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several of us thought it would be a good
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idea if we did a benefit uh dart
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tournament to raise funds to help with
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their burial. Todd and Stacy Willingham
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showed up the night that we had the
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tournament.
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Todd got too involved
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in the fun.
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>> He was heard to brag to others that he
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wouldn't have anything to worry about
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now because the money would start
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rolling in uh because people would feel
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sorry for him.
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>> He showed a great interest in a in a new
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pair of darts. That really kind of
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shocked me. I thought, well, here, you
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know, I'm really not going to let you
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give me back the money that I just gave
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you for a new pair of darts. So, I just
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gave them to him so that he wouldn't
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lose the money that I wanted him to
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spend on those funerals.
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>> The police launched an investigation.
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Todd Willingham was the primary suspect.
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You got to count his actions before and
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after. You got to count his actions
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during the fire and things like that.
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That makes the whole story, not just one
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little segment of it. It's it's every
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bit of the story.
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>> The police had been to Willingham's
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house before.
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>> We'd been over to Todd's house where he
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had uh got physical with his wife Stacy
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on a couple occasions.
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He was a very mean man.
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He beat on uh Stacy all the time.
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I mean, you know, I mean, this was like
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every day.
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They could hear the impact of him
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hitting his wife and his wife hitting
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the floor, his statements to her that
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were could be overheard throughout the
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neighborhood. Don't get up, or
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I'll hit you again.
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I figured he would kill Stacy. You know,
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that's how bad it was. You know,
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something terrible is going to happen.
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He will eventually kill her.
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Witnesses who had been at the fire also
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told police that Willingham did nothing
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to rescue his children.
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>> Once he got outside, I cannot find
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anybody who actually said he made an
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attempt to get back in to save his kids.
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He didn't try to go back in. Not one
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time.
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>> He wasn't attempting to go back in.
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He wasn't
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attempting to do anything.
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Putting that whole picture together made
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me believe that he was guilty of
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homicide, that he killed his three
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little girls.
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And my job was to find how them little
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girls died. And if it is an act, a
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criminal act, it's my job to to build a
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case so he can be prosecuted for his
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act.
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>> As soon as the fire was out, the search
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for the cause of the blaze began.
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>> 1213
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West 11. I'm Doug Fog, assistant fire
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chief. This will be the interior.
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Investigators came to believe that this
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was a crime scene.
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>> You start by eliminating accidental
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causes.
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We go back toward the breaker boxes. We
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see our wiring again.
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No evidence of shortening.
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When you get through with your
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accidental causes,
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what's left?
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They figured the fire had started on the
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floor.
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They were looking for evidence that
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something flammable might have been
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poured there.
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>> Unusual to a normal fire burn
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in the kids children's room there. There
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were uh signs of what we thought was an
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accelerant poured on the floor. Usually
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accelerants will leak through the cracks
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of the floors and burn underneath and
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fire burns up.
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>> Then at the door to the porch,
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investigators found what they were
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looking for.
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>> There was an unusual burn pattern on the
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aluminum threshold plate which indicates
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that something had been introduced,
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poured down, leaked through. We took a
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sample of that and that came back uh as
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a positive sample for charcoal lighter
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fluid.
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And I'm thinking that's the first time I
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called it arson.
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>> The official state report on the fire
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listed 20 indicators of arson.
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Investigators were now convinced.
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This concludes this tape
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of 1213
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West 11.
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The police called in Todd Willingham.
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My dad told him to go down there and
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give a statement.
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And when he went and give a statement,
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he talks too much.
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And
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I don't know what all he said, but
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whatever he said that started it.
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Just his whole demeanor
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to me
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looked like it he just wanted to tell a
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story.
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More like it was more like he was
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bragging about it than, you know, being
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remorseful.
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He was more like he was proud of his
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actions that he claimed he tried to do
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to save his kids and stuff.
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Willingham said he heard the oldest one
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calling daddy and went into the bedroom
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and crawled around on the floor because
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the smoke was so thick and stuff looking
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for the the babies, but he was unable to
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find them.
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>> But Officer Hensley wasn't buying the
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story.
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After a while in this business, you you
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get to to judge people by their actions
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and their looks, you know, and you're
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not 100% right, but usually it's it's a
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good thing to go on.
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Just looking at his eyes,
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I didn't see any type of remorse or
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sympathy in him.
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>> And Willingham's story didn't seem to
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square up with his lack of injuries. He
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was barefoot when he come out and he had
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no uh burns on his feet, but we could
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see where there was burns in the hallway
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and we can't figure out how he got out
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without burning his feet.
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>> Detectives pushed Willingham to confess.
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They even used pictures of his dead
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children.
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>> Todd didn't show any remorse through the
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interview until I actually showed him
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the pictures of his children.
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And at that time he started crying.
274
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:53,760
You know, I don't think he was sad so
275
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:56,480
much that he killed the kids as much as
276
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:59,200
that it's coming to light that, you
277
00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,839
know, he's a suspect in it.
278
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:05,800
They charged him with murder. Bail was
279
00:13:01,839 --> 00:13:05,800
set at a million dollars.
280
00:13:08,399 --> 00:13:14,760
They offered him a deal. confess and
281
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,760
avoid the death penalty.
282
00:13:14,959 --> 00:13:20,720
His courtappointed attorney, David
283
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:25,040
Martin, urged him to take the plea.
284
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:27,519
If all the evidence is overwhelming that
285
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:31,040
the person is guilty of the crime
286
00:13:27,519 --> 00:13:34,240
charged and the chances of introducing
287
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,760
reasonable doubt are slim to none in
288
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,240
your professional opinion. Of course,
289
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:40,959
you'd rather have him accept a life
290
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:43,600
sentence and save his life.
291
00:13:40,959 --> 00:13:46,320
>> Despite the pressure, Willingham refused
292
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:48,160
to plead guilty. He'd take his chances
293
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:51,279
in front of a jury.
294
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:54,279
>> He wouldn't plead guilty. He was very
295
00:13:51,279 --> 00:13:54,279
adamant.
296
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:59,440
He said they could kill him right then
297
00:13:56,399 --> 00:14:01,360
and there.
298
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,680
>> The case went to trial in August of
299
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,920
1992
300
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:08,800
The prosecution began with a surprising
301
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:11,199
witness,
302
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,680
>> a jailhouse informant.
303
00:14:11,199 --> 00:14:16,160
>> There was the testimony of Johnny Webb,
304
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:18,240
who had been incarcerated at the same
305
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:21,120
time as Willingham, and who testified
306
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:23,040
that Willingham had confessed. And he
307
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,279
said, "Well, you know, I can't deal with
308
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,320
what I've done."
309
00:14:25,279 --> 00:14:28,160
And I said, "What are you talking
310
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,480
about?"
311
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,639
And that's when he confessed to what he
312
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,480
had done.
313
00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:36,000
And Webb told prosecutors something
314
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,360
else.
315
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:42,000
>> Willingham admitted to him that he
316
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,839
spread the accelerant on the floor in
317
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,760
the children's room in sort of a
318
00:14:43,839 --> 00:14:50,720
pentagram or a star-shaped pattern.
319
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:53,600
>> A pentagram. To the prosecutor, it was a
320
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,920
symbol for Satan worship. And he offered
321
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:58,160
posters found in Willingham's room as
322
00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:01,760
proof.
323
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:04,959
It was a poster of an iron bar being
324
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:08,720
driven through a person's head and there
325
00:15:04,959 --> 00:15:14,680
was some indication that
326
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:14,680
it was some sort of a Satanist image.
327
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,440
>> And prosecutors called Willingham's wife
328
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:22,240
Stacy who reluctantly testified about
329
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:25,360
the abuse.
330
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:27,920
Stacy admitted that he he abused her and
331
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,760
beat on her and she stayed hoping that
332
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,320
it would it would change, but it never
333
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,839
did.
334
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,639
You got three little girls lives
335
00:15:33,839 --> 00:15:38,639
involved. They showed these kids to the
336
00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:41,519
jury
337
00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:44,560
and you hear his past.
338
00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:48,399
You see that and the judge tells them to
339
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:51,120
do what they need to be doing.
340
00:15:48,399 --> 00:15:52,720
I mean, I don't know how more how much
341
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,959
more you could stack it against him. Do
342
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,320
you?
343
00:15:54,959 --> 00:15:58,800
>> There's plenty of people walking around
344
00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,800
in Corsana, Texas, that if that happened
345
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,160
to them today, they would get the
346
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,920
benefit of the doubt because they had
347
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,560
treated their family in a respectful
348
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:08,880
manner and taken care of them. Okay.
349
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:12,720
Todd Willingham had not treated his
350
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:15,279
family in a respected manner and he
351
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:19,279
didn't get the benefit of the doubt that
352
00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:19,279
some people would have.
353
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,360
The trial lasted three days.
354
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,240
It only took an hour for the jury to
355
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:30,000
find Willingham guilty. He was sentenced
356
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,639
to death.
357
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:35,440
>> You know, I've been criticized by some
358
00:16:32,639 --> 00:16:38,399
because I've said that of course I
359
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,399
thought he was guilty. Uh how stupid
360
00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:42,959
would you be? How incompetent would you
361
00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:46,240
be as a defense attorney if you just
362
00:16:42,959 --> 00:16:48,560
went in and swallowed the story the
363
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:53,360
defendant gave you? The real fact of the
364
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:55,839
matter is that Willingham was guilty. He
365
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:58,160
wasn't innocent. He really set that fire
366
00:16:55,839 --> 00:17:00,320
and killed those kids.
367
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,040
>> I I feel like justice was served for
368
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:05,679
those three little girls. It was a jury
369
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:08,319
of 12 people of this community who
370
00:17:05,679 --> 00:17:10,640
determined that with all the evidence
371
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:14,679
presented to him that he was guilty. And
372
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,679
that's the way the system works.
373
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,079
Willingham was taken to the Texas State
374
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:29,079
Prison at Huntsville to await his
375
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,079
execution.
376
00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:40,880
He said the worst thing in the world uh
377
00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:43,280
is to be accused of what he was accused
378
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,840
of and to be found guilty of that and
379
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,760
then have to go to death row and live
380
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,000
with that.
381
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,840
>> When he was in the on death row, they
382
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,679
would step on his heels, you know, and
383
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,320
trip him and call him baby killer and
384
00:17:53,679 --> 00:17:58,480
everything else, you know.
385
00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,160
Willingham sat on death row for seven
386
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,799
years.
387
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:06,559
His appeals were going nowhere. There
388
00:18:02,799 --> 00:18:10,240
was little interest in his case.
389
00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:13,200
Then inmate number 999041
390
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:15,440
received a letter.
391
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,960
It was from 47year-old Elizabeth
392
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,520
Gilbert.
393
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:22,240
>> Someone asked me if I would like to ride
394
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:25,039
a man on death row, be a pen pal. And I
395
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,880
was like, sure. I volunteered.
396
00:18:25,039 --> 00:18:28,640
I had been in a place in my life where
397
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,440
relationship had ended. My parents were
398
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,440
getting elderly. I was kind of a drift.
399
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:36,799
The name that was given to me just
400
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:39,760
randomly was Todd Willingham.
401
00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:41,520
>> Willingham eagerly wrote back.
402
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,919
>> And I was just really struck by the
403
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,960
letter from Todd. It was very polite. It
404
00:18:43,919 --> 00:18:48,400
was very kind.
405
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,280
>> Gilbert wanted to know more about
406
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,720
Willingham. She decided to meet him face
407
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,720
to face.
408
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,919
I walked in expecting to see a black
409
00:18:54,720 --> 00:19:01,440
man, you know, the whole stereotype. And
410
00:18:57,919 --> 00:19:05,120
here was this, you know, handsome young
411
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:07,760
white man who was very polite and very
412
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:10,000
genial.
413
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,760
>> Willingham told her his version of what
414
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,360
happened at the fire.
415
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:18,480
>> The story he told me was, you know, this
416
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:20,640
he woke up to a fire. you know, he ran
417
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,799
out of the house, couldn't get back in
418
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:25,280
to save his children.
419
00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:28,240
There's a writer in me that was like,
420
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:30,880
"This is a a great story."
421
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:35,559
Gilbert decided to find out for herself
422
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,559
who Todd Willingham really was.
423
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,880
His story began in Ardmore, Oklahoma.
424
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,039
Todd's mother had several children by
425
00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:53,160
different fathers and Todd had been
426
00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:53,160
abandoned in California.
427
00:19:54,000 --> 00:20:01,520
>> Todd's father, Jean, had remarried. His
428
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:05,360
wife, Eugina, raised Todd as her own.
429
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:07,679
>> We got Todd when he was 13 months old. I
430
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:10,720
thought maybe he might be anxious and
431
00:20:07,679 --> 00:20:14,000
cry, but he just crawled up in my lap
432
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:17,039
and that was it.
433
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:19,280
He uh acted like he'd always lived
434
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:22,400
there.
435
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:24,320
He had a way of telling you how he felt.
436
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,720
He never came into a room. Why? He
437
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,480
didn't hug my neck.
438
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,240
>> It was a different story with Todd's
439
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,640
father.
440
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,799
>> My husband always said that I wasn't
441
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,440
hard enough on him. So that had made him
442
00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:40,400
have to be doubly hard.
443
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:42,640
>> He's the type of guy that uh just that
444
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,720
you can't do anything right and
445
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,200
everything's wrong.
446
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:51,280
Let's say that he has a hammer there and
447
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:54,240
you borrow it and you put it back.
448
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:57,120
That's good, but it's not good enough if
449
00:20:54,240 --> 00:21:01,520
it's not spacing the same way.
450
00:20:57,120 --> 00:21:04,320
His father was very strict and Todd knew
451
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:09,080
this, but it didn't stop him from doing
452
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:09,080
some things that he got in trouble for.
453
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:14,320
>> Todd struggled in school,
454
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,400
and Gilbert was surprised to learn that
455
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:19,440
by the sixth grade, he was already using
456
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:22,559
drugs. He liked to inhale the aerosol
457
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:24,480
from spray paint cans.
458
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:28,400
I think he started huffing pain when he
459
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:30,480
was 11 and started on drugs and 11,
460
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,400
>> you know, I'd see signs and I'd ask him
461
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:35,200
and he'd blame it on other kids. You
462
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,520
know, he did have a hard time finally
463
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,840
admitting to me that it was him, that he
464
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:44,080
was doing it. Yeah. And he told me that
465
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:46,480
was the the sweetest high he ever
466
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:49,440
experienced in his life.
467
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:53,520
>> His mind kind of stayed there. To me,
468
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:56,080
his his thinking ability
469
00:21:53,520 --> 00:22:00,400
always stayed
470
00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:02,640
11, 12, 13 long in there.
471
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,880
>> During his trial, prosecutors claimed
472
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:08,799
that as Willingham got older, he began
473
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:11,520
to commit increasingly violent crimes.
474
00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:14,240
>> He would have him a gang.
475
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,159
He would recruit younger younger kids
476
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,240
that he could intimidate and send them
477
00:22:16,159 --> 00:22:20,159
out to pull the burglaries and bring the
478
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,960
loot back to him and then he would pay
479
00:22:20,159 --> 00:22:25,039
them off in drugs.
480
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,840
>> And jurors heard that Willingham was a
481
00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:30,159
violent sociopath.
482
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:34,480
>> He was an individual with essentially no
483
00:22:30,159 --> 00:22:37,280
redeeming values. This was his crowning
484
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:40,720
achievement as a psychopath of the
485
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,960
murder of his three children.
486
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:45,840
In fact, psychiatrist Dr. James
487
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:48,720
Griggsson testified Willingham was a
488
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:51,039
severe sociopath.
489
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,280
Griggsson had testified in more than 100
490
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:56,480
death penalty cases, earning the
491
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,960
nickname Dr. Death.
492
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,799
>> He's hired to come in and make sure that
493
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:04,159
they get the death penalty by assuring
494
00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:06,559
the the jury that, you know, this person
495
00:23:04,159 --> 00:23:10,080
would be just a
496
00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:12,000
has to be removed from society.
497
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:15,559
Gilbert discovered that Griggsson had
498
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,559
never met Willingham.
499
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:21,280
But those who actually knew Todd said he
500
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,919
was hardly a violent criminal.
501
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:27,039
>> I I just didn't see that person. That
502
00:23:23,919 --> 00:23:30,000
that's not the Todd that I knew.
503
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:32,320
Todd had been arrested for tampering
504
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,120
with an automobile. In other words, he
505
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,799
had opened the door of a vehicle and not
506
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,480
gotten any further. By the time he
507
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:40,240
opened the door, the police were already
508
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,400
on site.
509
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,600
I put him in jail, I think, on his 18th
510
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,679
birthday because he had screwed up
511
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,520
again. And I said, "I have tried to save
512
00:23:45,679 --> 00:23:48,960
your ass, and now I'm going to put your
513
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,799
ass in jail. So, you can't enjoy your
514
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,480
18th birthday. You're going to go to
515
00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:55,200
jail for the weekend or whatever it was.
516
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:58,000
I don't remember the details."
517
00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,799
He wasn't a sociopath. He wasn't a
518
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:03,679
psychopath. He did stupid crap like
519
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:05,840
steal bikes.
520
00:24:03,679 --> 00:24:08,159
And in Todd's teenage love of heavy
521
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,960
metal music, Gilbert found an
522
00:24:08,159 --> 00:24:12,559
explanation for those satanic posters.
523
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:17,080
They were from the rock bands Led
524
00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:17,080
Zeppelin and Iron Maiden.
525
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,919
>> We had posters of Iron Maiden hanging in
526
00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:29,039
our house, too. My ex-husband probably
527
00:24:25,919 --> 00:24:32,640
still has his Iron Maiden posters, you
528
00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:34,400
know, at 40. He uh they were Iron Maiden
529
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:37,720
fans.
530
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,720
So what
531
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,480
>> what they looked at were posters on the
532
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:48,080
wall which are the typical posters that
533
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:50,159
young men listen to the heavy metal that
534
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,000
he smoked pot you know that he had this
535
00:24:50,159 --> 00:24:54,159
you know horrible past of crime which
536
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:57,320
turned out to be shoplifting you know in
537
00:24:54,159 --> 00:24:57,320
a bicycle.
538
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:04,840
Gilbert followed Todd's trail from
539
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,840
Oklahoma to Texas.
540
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:12,679
He'd moved to Corsacana to be with his
541
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,679
girlfriend Stacy.
542
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:18,880
They'd met while she was still in high
543
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,760
school and before long had three
544
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,840
children under the age of two.
545
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,679
He changed their diapers and took care
546
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:28,080
of them and did everything that they
547
00:25:25,679 --> 00:25:30,240
needed and he made them a lot of
548
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:33,440
macaroni and cheese. He did a lot of
549
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,039
cooking for them.
550
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,120
>> Stacy wound up waitressing in her
551
00:25:35,039 --> 00:25:39,520
brother's bar while Todd stayed home
552
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:42,880
with the kids.
553
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:46,720
>> I know they struggled that year trying
554
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:50,000
to take care of three babies and it was
555
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,679
very hard, you know. Uh, I can't
556
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,760
imagine.
557
00:25:51,679 --> 00:25:56,640
>> I'd say to the girls, he was a real good
558
00:25:53,760 --> 00:26:00,559
dad, but as far as going out and
559
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:03,600
providing a nice home, nice job for the
560
00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:06,480
family, and being a family provider like
561
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:09,520
you're supposed to.
562
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,120
I'd say he didn't.
563
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,640
>> Todd and Stacy's relationship
564
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:17,279
deteriorated into abuse.
565
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,360
When you have three little kids and
566
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:22,080
you're stuck in the house all the time
567
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:24,559
together and your friends are out doing
568
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,480
stuff. I think that was part of Todd and
569
00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:30,799
Stacy's problem. You know, three little
570
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:33,120
kids and and you're poor
571
00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:34,400
and you get bored and start picking at
572
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:38,640
each other.
573
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:41,279
>> I never saw Stacy with black eyes.
574
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,720
I did see Todd with bite marks on his
575
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:45,279
arm.
576
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,760
I know they had fights. I know they
577
00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:51,200
didn't get along. I talked to both of
578
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:55,039
them about it. I really talked to Todd
579
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:58,159
about it and he said, "I, mom, I had to
580
00:26:55,039 --> 00:27:00,400
take up for myself."
581
00:26:58,159 --> 00:27:03,039
>> Nevertheless, only 3 months before the
582
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,640
fire, Todd and Stacy decided to get
583
00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:06,240
married.
584
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,559
>> He told me, he said, "I'm going to try
585
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,080
to do what's right. I'm going to try to
586
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:12,480
make this work, and we're going to get
587
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:15,120
married." and he said, "I know it's
588
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:17,760
going to be hard, but that's what I
589
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:20,320
should do."
590
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:24,240
>> Todd would have to change his ways. He
591
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:28,320
had a reputation as a ladies man.
592
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:31,440
>> Stacy wasn't the only girl in his life.
593
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:34,080
I'm sorry to say. Todd acted like he
594
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,919
really cared for Stacy,
595
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,159
but he acted like he cared for other
596
00:27:35,919 --> 00:27:41,360
girls, too.
597
00:27:38,159 --> 00:27:43,760
>> There was one woman in particular
598
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:46,240
She was an older woman that I didn't
599
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,400
approve of at all.
600
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,720
She was a neighbor
601
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:53,600
that lived across the street and had
602
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:56,240
children his age.
603
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:58,240
>> When he married Stacy, Todd ended the
604
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:01,200
relationship.
605
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:04,000
When he come and told me that he had
606
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:06,880
married Stacy,
607
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:09,440
it
608
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:12,320
it broke my heart because I knew I was
609
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:15,679
losing
610
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:18,720
at that time the love of my life,
611
00:28:15,679 --> 00:28:23,679
my soulmate.
612
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:27,039
And but I knew why he was doing it.
613
00:28:23,679 --> 00:28:30,159
And I could not ask him to walk away
614
00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:33,039
from his kids
615
00:28:30,159 --> 00:28:34,720
because he couldn't do it. I wouldn't do
616
00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:36,399
that to him cuz I knew how much he loved
617
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,279
him.
618
00:28:36,399 --> 00:28:44,039
>> He had other choices,
619
00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:44,039
but he he chose his children.
620
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:51,200
>> After the fire, Stacy stood by Todd,
621
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,279
insisting he was innocent.
622
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,679
But when he was sent to prison, she
623
00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:58,799
started a new life.
624
00:28:55,679 --> 00:29:01,279
>> After the conviction and after Todd was
625
00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:02,960
on death row, Stacy decided to get a
626
00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:07,399
divorce.
627
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,399
She didn't visit him on death row.
628
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,200
>> Elizabeth Gilbert found Stacy in
629
00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:18,880
Corsacana.
630
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:20,399
>> Oh, they kept saying um that the fire
631
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:24,559
>> I told her I was a writer. I was from
632
00:29:20,399 --> 00:29:29,360
Houston. I interviewed her. I taped her
633
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:32,799
and she was u very seemed kind of
634
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:37,000
reserved, nervous, just a person who had
635
00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:37,000
a lot of tragedy in her life.
636
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:42,880
>> He used to beat me real bad. He just had
637
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:45,760
a temper, I guess. I mean, you and I was
638
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,799
stupid for putting up with it. But the
639
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,440
first time he ever hit me,
640
00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:50,640
>> Todd had begged Stacy to visit him,
641
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,880
>> but she refused
642
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,320
>> because I was at first I I didn't go in
643
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,080
there when they, you know, convicted
644
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,360
him. I didn't want to be in there, you
645
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,720
know. I was tired of it. We were just,
646
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,559
you know, threatening each other,
647
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:06,799
arguing back and forth through the riot,
648
00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:08,960
and I just filed for a divorce.
649
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:10,960
>> Nevertheless, Stacy said she didn't
650
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,960
believe Todd was capable of killing the
651
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,960
children.
652
00:30:14,159 --> 00:30:19,279
He he was mean to me, but I always said,
653
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,520
you know, he may beat me, he may kill
654
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:23,600
me, but he would never get to the kids.
655
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,840
And I always knew that, you know, they
656
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:29,840
were his kids. He never hurt the kids,
657
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:32,640
you know. I mean, but me, that was a
658
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:35,200
whole different story.
659
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,760
>> She really convinced me that she felt
660
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,080
that an injustice had been done. My
661
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,840
sense in the interview was like she she
662
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,760
left me with the opinion that Todd was
663
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,039
innocent, you know, because she didn't
664
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,320
feel he had done that. She didn't feel
665
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:50,159
he was capable of doing that.
666
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,240
Now, Gilbert wanted to sort out the
667
00:30:50,159 --> 00:30:56,240
other evidence.
668
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:58,480
>> We went up to Austin and got the the
669
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,640
records of the trial.
670
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:03,360
I'm in, you know, copying these records.
671
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,440
I'm reading these reports.
672
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,200
She dug into the story of that jailhouse
673
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,320
informant.
674
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:14,240
>> A red flag to me was Johnny Webb. The
675
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:16,720
idea that a prisoner would confess to a
676
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:20,240
complete stranger,
677
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:24,159
you know, that he had committed a crime
678
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:26,000
just didn't I just didn't buy that.
679
00:31:24,159 --> 00:31:28,640
>> Webb had a reputation as a troubled
680
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:31,279
young man with a long history of felony
681
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:34,720
arrests.
682
00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:36,720
We decided to use his testimony even
683
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,360
though his credibility was subject to
684
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:43,519
attack. We felt that he had no real
685
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:45,039
reason uh to lie about this particular
686
00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:48,720
uh
687
00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:50,559
what we'd term a jailhouse confession.
688
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,159
>> Gilbert decided to talk to Web in
689
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:55,600
person.
690
00:31:52,159 --> 00:31:57,440
She found him serving 15 years. He stood
691
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:01,360
by his story.
692
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:03,760
He was a very nervous young man.
693
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,120
I wouldn't have had I been sitting, you
694
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,240
know, on the jury, I couldn't have
695
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:10,240
bought his testimony.
696
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,240
Later, her suspicions about Webb were
697
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,080
confirmed when he sent this letter to
698
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,559
prosecutors,
699
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:20,279
recanting his testimony and declaring
700
00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:20,279
Willingham's innocence.
701
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,919
And then he changed that story,
702
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:30,480
recanting the recantation.
703
00:32:25,919 --> 00:32:33,200
And now he doesn't remember any of it.
704
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,320
>> I don't remember. Maybe I did. Maybe
705
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,440
it's cuz whatever thing I was going
706
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,480
through, I told him I was going to
707
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:41,919
recant if uh something doesn't help me
708
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,760
because uh was trying to kill me. You
709
00:32:41,919 --> 00:32:45,120
know what I'm saying? Something to put
710
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,399
some pressure on somebody to do
711
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,919
something to get me out of where I was
712
00:32:46,399 --> 00:32:50,559
at.
713
00:32:47,919 --> 00:32:52,240
>> As Willingham's execution date neared,
714
00:32:50,559 --> 00:32:54,399
there were other problems Gilbert could
715
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,240
not overcome.
716
00:32:54,399 --> 00:32:58,000
She learned Willingham had lied to
717
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,600
investigators about his attempts to
718
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,360
rescue the children.
719
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:04,159
>> I think the big secret that he was
720
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:07,519
carrying was the guilt. In his mind, he
721
00:33:04,159 --> 00:33:09,120
couldn't acknowledge that he didn't, you
722
00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:11,600
know, try and save his children. So, he
723
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:13,760
concocted the story that he, you know,
724
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:16,000
tried to go in and find the babies and
725
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,000
couldn't.
726
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,919
>> And he said, "What I'm guilty of is
727
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,919
being a coward."
728
00:33:19,919 --> 00:33:24,480
He said, "I should have died in the
729
00:33:21,919 --> 00:33:27,120
house with my kids."
730
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:29,360
But he said, "It doesn't matter what
731
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:32,880
people say.
732
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:35,840
You can't let yourself catch on fire
733
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:38,640
without trying to get away." And you can
734
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:42,240
sit and say, "Every day, I would burn up
735
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:47,399
before I let my kids die in a fire."
736
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:47,399
He said, "It's not humanly possible."
737
00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:53,200
And the biggest challenge remained that
738
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,799
evidence of arson.
739
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,640
Gilbert had never been able to get an
740
00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:59,360
arson expert to examine the state's
741
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:01,760
findings.
742
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:04,640
And then just 3 months before the
743
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:07,640
execution, Gilbert was in an automobile
744
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,640
accident.
745
00:34:07,919 --> 00:34:14,320
I remember flying forward and I heard
746
00:34:11,839 --> 00:34:17,359
someone scream in the back seat and I'm
747
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,960
all by myself, but it was me screaming
748
00:34:17,359 --> 00:34:20,879
in the back seat, but it came from
749
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,119
behind me.
750
00:34:20,879 --> 00:34:25,200
I remember the doctor coming to me and
751
00:34:23,119 --> 00:34:27,520
saying, "Well, it's uh confirmed your
752
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:30,159
neck is broken. You may be like this for
753
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:32,560
the rest of your life."
754
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:34,720
>> Paralyzed, Gilbert could no longer visit
755
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,639
Willingham.
756
00:34:34,720 --> 00:34:40,079
you know, it was impossible for me to
757
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:42,399
go. I was incapable of that sort of
758
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:45,280
travel, you know, sitting in a chair
759
00:34:42,399 --> 00:34:47,679
that long, driving to Huntsville, and it
760
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:52,520
just wouldn't have happened.
761
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:52,520
>> Gilbert's investigation was over.
762
00:34:56,879 --> 00:35:01,599
>> Back under the windows,
763
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:03,920
the low burn concrete. In the 12 years
764
00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:06,720
since Willingham's conviction, one fact
765
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,480
had remained unquestioned. The fire was
766
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:14,079
an arson.
767
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:15,040
>> Burn patterns unusual to a normal fire
768
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:17,280
burn.
769
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,359
>> But during those years, there had been a
770
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,960
dramatic change in the science of arson
771
00:35:19,359 --> 00:35:23,760
investigation.
772
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:27,200
>> The fire investigation community largely
773
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:29,359
consists of people who are firemen.
774
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,920
They're not scientists.
775
00:35:29,359 --> 00:35:34,560
They don't have any formal scientific
776
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:37,200
training. Extinguishing a fire and
777
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,200
investigating a fire involve two
778
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,520
different skill sets and two different
779
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:44,240
mindsets.
780
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,480
John Lentini is at the top of his field.
781
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:49,760
One of a small group who reinvented the
782
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,520
science of arson detection.
783
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,599
So many determinations were based on
784
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,680
hunches and feelings.
785
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:57,200
And and these guys, they talk about, oh,
786
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:00,320
you got to get in there and feel the
787
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:02,640
beast. Uh oh, it I I'm just embarrassed
788
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:07,119
for the profession that this is the way
789
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:09,599
people evaluate physical evidence.
790
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:12,000
>> The change in arson science began when
791
00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:15,720
scientists set their own fires and
792
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,720
studied how they burned.
793
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:21,760
>> That was the first time science was ever
794
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:24,240
really introduced into the mainstream of
795
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:27,200
fire investigation.
796
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:30,240
>> Like Lentini, Dr. Gerald Hurst was one
797
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:32,960
of the new fire scientists.
798
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:35,440
>> Gerald Hurst is a chemist extraordinaire
799
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,000
with a PhD from Cambridge University.
800
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,960
>> He's the idiosyncratic godfather of
801
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,800
modern art and science. He's like this
802
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,680
mad scientist
803
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,920
who's not mad at all.
804
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,400
>> For years, Willingham's supporters had
805
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,920
tried to enlist Hurst's help. They
806
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,320
finally gave him the state's arson
807
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,079
report only weeks before the scheduled
808
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:59,280
execution.
809
00:36:56,079 --> 00:37:01,440
Taking a look at the photographs and
810
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:05,200
video and testimony and fire
811
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:07,599
investigation report, it became apparent
812
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,680
that we were dealing with a fire which
813
00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:12,480
had gone to flashover.
814
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:16,839
>> Flashover, the instant ignition of all
815
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,839
combustible material in a room.
816
00:37:17,839 --> 00:37:24,000
A flashover had left natural patterns on
817
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:26,480
the floor that all post flashover fires
818
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,320
tend to leave behind and these had been
819
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:32,160
misidentified
820
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:34,480
as poor patterns and thus the fire had
821
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:37,359
been labeled an arson.
822
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:40,480
>> Hurst reviewed the report line by line.
823
00:37:37,359 --> 00:37:44,000
>> All right, here's your first bit of
824
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:47,680
so-called arson evidence. This was
825
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:50,240
typically interpreted in the old days as
826
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:53,520
a pour pattern. In other words, someone
827
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:55,359
poured gasoline or some other accelerant
828
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,079
down the hallway out the front door and
829
00:37:55,359 --> 00:38:00,880
then ignited it. The prosecutor in this
830
00:37:58,079 --> 00:38:03,599
case literally believed
831
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:06,000
that the burn patterns on the floor were
832
00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:08,400
in the shape of a pentagram, like some
833
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,720
satanic ritual.
834
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,400
When you actually look at the burn
835
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:15,280
pattern that they drew and then you look
836
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:18,560
at where the windows are, windows
837
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,240
furnish ventilation to a fire and all
838
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,960
they were looking at is what we call
839
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:25,040
ventilation patterns.
840
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,720
>> The original arson investigators had
841
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,560
testified that there was evidence of a
842
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:30,400
liquid accelerant on the threshold of
843
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,720
the porch door.
844
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,960
A sample of wood debris from the base of
845
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:37,200
the front porch was analyzed and the
846
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:41,280
results were positive for a combustible
847
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:42,960
liquid accelerant dash kerosene. Well,
848
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,520
that's quite understandable because the
849
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,880
porch also had a barbecue on it and of
850
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,119
course there would be charcoal lighter
851
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,920
fluid there if there was a can of
852
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:53,839
charcoal lighter fluid on the porch.
853
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,680
>> Hurst also addressed Willingham's lack
854
00:38:53,839 --> 00:38:58,480
of injuries.
855
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:01,200
>> The question has been asked,
856
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:04,240
why were Todd Willingham's feet not
857
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:06,480
burned? And the answer to that question
858
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:09,839
is quite simple.
859
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:12,079
Because if no accelerant was poured on
860
00:39:09,839 --> 00:39:14,960
the floor, the floor would have been
861
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:18,560
relatively cool until shortly after
862
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:20,320
flashover occurred in the bedroom. The
863
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:24,599
last part of him that would have gotten
864
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,599
any burn would have been his feet.
865
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:29,119
and Hurst concluded the original
866
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:32,000
investigators had not eliminated
867
00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:34,720
accidental causes.
868
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,839
>> There had to be at least one electrical
869
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:39,760
short in that room. And since it was
870
00:39:37,839 --> 00:39:42,400
surface wiring, it would have been
871
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:45,280
relative child's play to simply trace
872
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:48,480
it. Get a step ladder and trace it and
873
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:51,599
go over it inch by inch until you until
874
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:54,400
you locate the fault. That in and of
875
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:56,560
itself is enough to toss the case out
876
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,160
for arson.
877
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,800
>> Hurst had come to believe Todd
878
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,960
Willingham was not guilty.
879
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:06,800
>> Todd Willingham's case falls into that
880
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:11,280
category where there is not one iota of
881
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:13,359
evidence that the fire was arson. Not
882
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,599
not one iota.
883
00:40:13,359 --> 00:40:19,359
Hurst completed his report on February
884
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:21,119
13th, 2004, only 4 days before the
885
00:40:19,359 --> 00:40:23,040
scheduled execution.
886
00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:25,440
>> You know, all hope was lost and we now
887
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:29,040
have the answer. Getting the news from
888
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:31,839
Dr. Hurst was I mean, it was it was
889
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:34,079
definitely a high.
890
00:40:31,839 --> 00:40:36,800
>> Willingham's attorney filed a series of
891
00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:38,960
emergency last minute appeals. I thought
892
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:42,000
that somebody would would at least say,
893
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:44,320
"Let's stop and uh you know, let's at
894
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,800
least hold on and let's take a look at
895
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,480
it." I mean, we were talking about
896
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:52,160
somebody that was convicted of something
897
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:53,920
that wasn't a crime.
898
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,839
>> While Willingham waited for the courts
899
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:59,200
to decide,
900
00:40:55,839 --> 00:41:01,599
he received shocking news. Stacy had
901
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:04,079
told reporters that she now believed he
902
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:07,760
had murdered their children.
903
00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:11,760
She had told me that she had uh changed
904
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:13,280
her mind and felt that Todd was guilty.
905
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,920
>> Stacy talked to Todd's private
906
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,720
investigator, Tina Church,
907
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:23,040
>> and she had indicated that she had read
908
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:26,400
the entire trial record in one day. And
909
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:29,680
I kept trying to tell her, well, we have
910
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:33,839
new evidence. You know, how would that
911
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:36,319
make you feel to know that your former
912
00:41:33,839 --> 00:41:38,160
husband, the father of your children, is
913
00:41:36,319 --> 00:41:40,400
going to be executed for something he
914
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,960
possibly didn't do?
915
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,040
And she just
916
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:48,800
really had convinced herself by this
917
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:50,800
point he was guilty.
918
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,720
>> It all started a few weeks before at a
919
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,640
contentious meeting between Todd and
920
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:56,880
Stacy.
921
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:59,839
For the first time in 12 years, she
922
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:02,720
visited Todd in prison. He asked her not
923
00:41:59,839 --> 00:42:05,040
to come to the execution and he had one
924
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:07,760
last request.
925
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:10,720
He asked her if he could be buried by
926
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:14,000
the children and she refused.
927
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:19,119
It seems like there was just a lot of um
928
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:22,560
hate that came out in that interview.
929
00:42:19,119 --> 00:42:24,480
Then only one day before the execution,
930
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,560
prosecutors filed a stunning document
931
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:29,599
with the courts.
932
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:32,400
An affidavit signed by Stacy's brother
933
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:34,560
claiming that according to Stacy,
934
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:38,720
Willingham had allegedly confessed
935
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:43,359
during that final meeting at the prison.
936
00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:46,319
It outraged Willingham. He denied it and
937
00:42:43,359 --> 00:42:48,800
prepared to die.
938
00:42:46,319 --> 00:42:51,839
He said, "Because they'll kill me and
939
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,119
I'll go to heaven with my kids because I
940
00:42:51,839 --> 00:42:55,280
don't want to live this life without
941
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:57,680
them."
942
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,200
He said, "God knows.
943
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:02,440
God knows I didn't do this and that's
944
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,440
what matters."
945
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:09,920
On February 17th, the day of the
946
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:12,319
execution, all of Willingham's final
947
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,720
appeals failed.
948
00:43:12,319 --> 00:43:16,480
Despite the Hurst report, the Texas
949
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:19,680
courts and the United States Supreme
950
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:21,280
Court refused to delay the execution.
951
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,119
>> It was just, you know, the train had
952
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:26,359
left the station and nobody was going to
953
00:43:23,119 --> 00:43:26,359
stop it.
954
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,760
>> And Texas Governor Rick Perry would not
955
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:34,400
use his authority to delay the execution
956
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:38,000
for 30 days.
957
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:40,480
In Texas, you do not get elected by
958
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,960
granting stays of execution
959
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:46,240
to people like Cameron Todd Willingham.
960
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:49,359
You do not show any kind of mercy to
961
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:51,760
criminals. You are hard on criminals and
962
00:43:49,359 --> 00:43:57,040
that gets you elected in this state.
963
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:59,839
>> I was given the duty or task to call Mr.
964
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:02,000
and Mrs. Willingham. And it was one of
965
00:43:59,839 --> 00:44:04,079
the most
966
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:07,760
really horrifying experiences that I
967
00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:10,560
ever had to go through to tell a parents
968
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:15,000
that their son, even though had been
969
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:15,000
proven innocent, was going to die.
970
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:23,960
At 6:00, Cameron Todd Willingham was
971
00:44:19,839 --> 00:44:23,960
told that his time was up.
972
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,240
when he was asked by the warden if he
973
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,480
had anything to say. Then he went into
974
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:35,440
the statement where that he said he had
975
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:38,599
been uh wrongly convicted and that he
976
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,599
was innocent.
977
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:45,440
>> At some point he looked over and into
978
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,640
the state's witness room. He noticed
979
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,800
Stacy.
980
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:52,079
>> She walked up to the window and he said,
981
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:54,319
"You bitch."
982
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:56,319
I believe that he felt in his heart that
983
00:44:54,319 --> 00:44:58,960
she had lied
984
00:44:56,319 --> 00:45:01,040
and her lie
985
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:04,040
had cost, you know, helped cost him his
986
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,040
life.
987
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:10,319
>> Not only did he tell his wife that he
988
00:45:07,599 --> 00:45:15,000
hoped she would rot in hell, he said he
989
00:45:10,319 --> 00:45:15,000
hoped that she would rot in hell.
990
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:19,760
I had heard a lot of things
991
00:45:17,839 --> 00:45:22,000
over covering hundreds of these
992
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,800
executions in Texas over the years. I'd
993
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,800
never run into that.
994
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,480
Then the drugs began to be administered
995
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,640
and
996
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,720
within, you know, within a few moments
997
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:37,000
he'd been he was unconscious and then a
998
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:37,000
few moments later was pronounced dead.
999
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,599
>> They told us that we could go to the
1000
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:44,240
funeral home. when the state turned his
1001
00:45:41,599 --> 00:45:48,280
body over to the funeral home and touch
1002
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:48,280
him while he was still warm.
1003
00:45:49,119 --> 00:45:53,000
So that's what we did.
1004
00:45:53,359 --> 00:45:58,520
And after I knew it was over, I went
1005
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,520
home to my kids
1006
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:03,480
and never been so glad to see him in my
1007
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,480
life.
1008
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:11,160
And I knew Todd was with his,
1009
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,160
you know, he finally went home to his
1010
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,599
Did the state which executes more
1011
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,000
convicts than any other kill an innocent
1012
00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:18,000
man?
1013
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,599
>> Texas execute an innocent man.
1014
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,280
>> Explosive new charges over the execution
1015
00:46:19,599 --> 00:46:23,119
of a man who at least half a dozen
1016
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,160
forensic experts now believe was
1017
00:46:23,119 --> 00:46:26,960
innocent.
1018
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:31,040
>> In death, questions about Willingham's
1019
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:34,160
innocence would not go away.
1020
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:36,640
By 2008, the controversy had ended up in
1021
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,480
a small state agency.
1022
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,880
The Texas Forensic Science Commission
1023
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:43,280
was designed to go in and figure out
1024
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,640
what happened and figure out how to keep
1025
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:47,040
it from happening again.
1026
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,920
>> We decided that we needed to hire an
1027
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:52,160
expert who in the area of fire science
1028
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:56,079
to look at all of the data we could get
1029
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:58,160
pulled together and give us a report.
1030
00:46:56,079 --> 00:47:00,640
>> The commission hired fire scientist Dr.
1031
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,880
Craig Ber to investigate the Willingham
1032
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:05,680
case.
1033
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:08,160
Ber agreed with other experts that there
1034
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:11,680
was no evidence of arson.
1035
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:13,760
>> The biler report is point forpoint a
1036
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:16,480
confirmation of the the original Hurst
1037
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:19,200
report that all 20 of the indicators
1038
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:21,200
were wrong.
1039
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:24,720
>> To the top fire scientists in the
1040
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:27,680
country, the implications were clear.
1041
00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:30,000
>> The state of Texas executed a man for a
1042
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,319
crime that they couldn't prove was
1043
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:35,280
really a crime. And the evidence says
1044
00:47:32,319 --> 00:47:37,440
this is an accidental fire.
1045
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,599
And if it was an accidental fire, it
1046
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,760
doesn't matter how many posters of Iron
1047
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:44,960
Maiden Cameron Todd Willingham had on
1048
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:47,280
his wall or Led Zeppelin or or whether
1049
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:50,000
he uh like to play darts or drink beer
1050
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:54,000
or whether he smacked his wife around.
1051
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:57,440
Um it only matters that the fire was not
1052
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:59,440
really a set fire.
1053
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:02,160
>> Texas Governor Rick Perry was running
1054
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:04,240
for reelection.
1055
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:06,880
I knew from the beginning that it could
1056
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:10,400
be controversial simply because we had a
1057
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:12,880
person who had been executed and uh the
1058
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,280
science used in his case might be
1059
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,599
questionable and the implications are
1060
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:20,240
obvious. It doesn't take long to connect
1061
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:22,160
the dots there.
1062
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:24,319
>> Just before the boiler report was to be
1063
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,880
presented, the governor fired the
1064
00:48:24,319 --> 00:48:28,880
commission's chairman.
1065
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,640
Around 4:0 or 5:00 p.m., I received a
1066
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,319
call from Doris Scott of the governor's
1067
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,680
office. She said, "I just wanted to let
1068
00:48:32,319 --> 00:48:36,319
you know that the governor thanks you
1069
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:38,559
for your service on the commission."
1070
00:48:36,319 --> 00:48:41,720
And I said, "Okay, well, um, thank you
1071
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:41,720
for calling."
1072
00:48:41,839 --> 00:48:48,800
This is a guy on his on on in the in the
1073
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:52,160
death chamber. At his last breath, he
1074
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:54,960
spews an obscinity laced triad against
1075
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:57,440
his wife. That's the person that we're
1076
00:48:54,960 --> 00:49:00,960
talking about here. and getting all tied
1077
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:03,920
up in the process here is uh frankly a a
1078
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:05,680
a deflection of what people across this
1079
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:09,359
state and this country need to be
1080
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:12,000
looking at. This was a bad man.
1081
00:49:09,359 --> 00:49:13,200
>> In all, Perry fired three members of the
1082
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,440
commission,
1083
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:17,520
>> then installed a political ally,
1084
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:19,920
prosecutor John Bradley, as the new
1085
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,839
chairman.
1086
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,359
It wasn't until Rick Perry stepped in
1087
00:49:21,839 --> 00:49:27,359
and replaced three members of the
1088
00:49:23,359 --> 00:49:30,800
commission and within days the story had
1089
00:49:27,359 --> 00:49:33,680
grown nationwide that that it got to be
1090
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,520
a big story.
1091
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:38,520
>> The new commission's investigation
1092
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,520
continues.
1093
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,079
>> Willingham's case is now at the heart of
1094
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,040
the national debate about the death
1095
00:49:46,079 --> 00:49:50,640
penalty.
1096
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:52,480
>> Thank you for making this stay.
1097
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:56,720
>> Well, I think the implications for
1098
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:59,520
capital punishment are there. Um, but
1099
00:49:56,720 --> 00:50:03,599
the implications for non- capital cases
1100
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:05,280
are there too. And that is if we make a
1101
00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:08,800
mistake,
1102
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:10,640
are we going to learn from it or are we
1103
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:14,960
going to try to sweep it under the rug
1104
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:17,280
and act like um nothing
1105
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:19,119
happened? I can guarantee you we've got
1106
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,520
at least a couple of hundred people in
1107
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:24,480
prison in this state alone for
1108
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:27,480
accidental fires and we need to get them
1109
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,480
out.
1110
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:35,440
But in Corsacana, they made up their
1111
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:37,440
minds a long time ago.
1112
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,200
I believe that Todd Willingham got
1113
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:42,400
exactly what he deserved the day they
1114
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:44,319
put him to death. And I don't believe
1115
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:48,960
that he didn't get a fair trial in this
1116
00:50:44,319 --> 00:50:51,119
town. And I don't
1117
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,040
it's it's really a shame we couldn't put
1118
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:56,280
him to death three times since he took
1119
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,280
three lives.
1120
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,680
>> Fire burn.
1121
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:08,720
>> And the original arson investigators
1122
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:10,720
still insist Willingham set the fire.
1123
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:12,400
I don't care how many degrees you may
1124
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:14,160
have, how many books you may have
1125
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:18,480
written.
1126
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:23,359
Uh, this was a set fire.
1127
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:26,640
We had a jury of 12 people
1128
00:51:23,359 --> 00:51:28,480
that convicted a man who was later
1129
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:32,720
executed.
1130
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:36,079
Was Mr. Willingham innocent?
1131
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:40,760
In my opinion,
1132
00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:40,760
he was guilty as the day he was born.
1133
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:28,960
For more on this and other frontline
1134
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:31,960
programs, visit our website at pbs.org.
1135
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,960
work.
1136
00:52:39,119 --> 00:52:45,599
Front Lines Death by Fire is available
1137
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:49,280
on DVD. To order, visit shoppbs.org
1138
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:51,359
or call 1800 playp.
1139
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:54,680
Frontline is also available for download
1140
00:52:51,359 --> 00:52:54,680
on iTunes.77161
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