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♪ We sing our hymn, amen. ♪
4
00:01:09,690 --> 00:01:12,554
Man, I love the energy.
5
00:01:12,555 --> 00:01:14,625
When the vocals
start to layer,
6
00:01:14,626 --> 00:01:17,422
particularly on that last
chorus, I think that's like,
7
00:01:17,732 --> 00:01:20,976
Those guys are the hit
machine singer songwriters,
8
00:01:20,977 --> 00:01:22,909
Chris Tomlin and Ben Fielding.
9
00:01:22,910 --> 00:01:25,844
And that's not just any
song they're working on.
10
00:01:27,017 --> 00:01:30,330
They're rearranging the
oldest Christian hymn
11
00:01:30,331 --> 00:01:33,713
ever discovered, complete
with a nearly 2000 year old
12
00:01:33,714 --> 00:01:35,578
lyric and melody.
13
00:01:35,785 --> 00:01:38,131
It's ancient, it's in Greek,
14
00:01:38,132 --> 00:01:41,203
and it's been buried
in Egypt a long time.
15
00:01:41,204 --> 00:01:44,104
Our plan is to
bring it back to life.
16
00:01:56,461 --> 00:02:00,498
We're on a historical
and musical journey
17
00:02:00,499 --> 00:02:04,640
from the sands of Egypt
to America's music capital,
18
00:02:04,641 --> 00:02:09,163
from Australian creative spaces
to English thinking spaces.
19
00:02:09,646 --> 00:02:12,476
With the help of people who
know what they're talking about,
20
00:02:12,477 --> 00:02:16,756
we'll be exploring sacred
songs and modern hits,
21
00:02:16,757 --> 00:02:20,000
ancient history and
contemporary markets.
22
00:02:20,001 --> 00:02:22,831
We'll learn from
time-honoured traditions
23
00:02:22,832 --> 00:02:24,696
and state of the art production.
24
00:02:25,352 --> 00:02:27,732
Our goal is to
give back to the world
25
00:02:27,733 --> 00:02:32,358
a song the church hasn't
sung for almost two millennia.
26
00:02:32,359 --> 00:02:35,500
This is The First Hymn project.
27
00:02:39,849 --> 00:02:41,505
My name's John Dickson.
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00:02:41,506 --> 00:02:44,956
Now I'm a professor specialising
in the history of Christianity.
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00:02:44,957 --> 00:02:48,615
But before I was a nerd,
I was a wannabe musician,
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00:02:48,616 --> 00:02:51,687
touring and recording
full-time with my best mates
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00:02:51,688 --> 00:02:53,827
in a very 90s rock band.
32
00:02:53,828 --> 00:02:55,312
You don't need the details.
33
00:02:55,313 --> 00:02:57,728
All that to say,
I have both an academic
34
00:02:57,729 --> 00:02:59,316
and a personal interest
35
00:02:59,317 --> 00:03:02,182
in seeing this
ancient hymn resurrected.
36
00:03:09,085 --> 00:03:11,811
Our story begins
in one of the most
37
00:03:11,812 --> 00:03:14,124
ancient cities in the world.
38
00:03:14,470 --> 00:03:17,990
Cairo is the modern-day
capital of Egypt.
39
00:03:18,301 --> 00:03:21,959
It was officially founded
just a thousand years ago,
40
00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,790
but at its edges are
the ruins of Memphis,
41
00:03:25,791 --> 00:03:27,241
Egypt's ancient capital.
42
00:03:27,690 --> 00:03:31,348
That part of the city
goes back 4,000 years
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00:03:31,349 --> 00:03:34,214
to the days of the pharaohs.
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00:03:35,698 --> 00:03:39,977
I love an old cafe and
this one takes the cake.
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00:03:39,978 --> 00:03:42,151
This is El-Fishawy in Cairo,
46
00:03:42,152 --> 00:03:46,536
and it's been managed
by the same family since 1773.
47
00:03:46,847 --> 00:03:49,401
That's when America was
still a British colony.
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00:03:49,988 --> 00:03:53,509
It's a small reminder of
just how old this country is.
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00:03:55,545 --> 00:03:58,754
The region has been
strategic for centuries,
50
00:03:58,755 --> 00:04:02,413
partly because it's at the
juncture of the Nile Valley
51
00:04:02,414 --> 00:04:04,346
and the Nile Delta.
52
00:04:04,347 --> 00:04:06,624
That's upper Egypt in the south
53
00:04:06,625 --> 00:04:08,868
and lower Egypt in the north,
54
00:04:08,869 --> 00:04:10,835
where the mighty Nile River
55
00:04:10,836 --> 00:04:13,838
concludes its 4,000 mile journey
56
00:04:13,839 --> 00:04:15,289
at the Mediterranean Sea.
57
00:04:16,083 --> 00:04:20,189
People have flocked here for
centuries, and they still do.
58
00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:22,295
More than 20 million people
59
00:04:22,296 --> 00:04:24,677
live in the
Cairo metro area today,
60
00:04:24,678 --> 00:04:28,751
making it the Middle East's
demographic centre for Islam.
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00:04:30,615 --> 00:04:34,307
This is the Great
Mosque of Muhammad Ali Pasha,
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00:04:34,308 --> 00:04:37,345
a governor appointed
by the Ottoman Empire
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00:04:37,346 --> 00:04:40,038
to rule Egypt in
the early 19th century.
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00:04:41,798 --> 00:04:46,285
It's also called the Alabaster
Mosque, for obvious reasons.
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00:04:46,286 --> 00:04:48,908
Egypt has a long and
varied religious history,
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00:04:48,909 --> 00:04:52,429
but nowadays 90% of
the country is Muslim,
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00:04:52,430 --> 00:04:54,501
100 million worshippers.
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00:04:55,260 --> 00:04:58,055
But the country is also home
to one of the oldest
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00:04:58,056 --> 00:05:00,300
branches of Christianity.
70
00:05:00,783 --> 00:05:03,957
Only about 10% of
Egyptians are Christians,
71
00:05:03,958 --> 00:05:07,583
and most of them belong to the
very ancient Coptic Church.
72
00:05:09,723 --> 00:05:13,933
St Mark's Cathedral is named
for St Mark the Evangelist,
73
00:05:13,934 --> 00:05:17,143
the author of the Gospel of
Mark in the New Testament.
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00:05:17,144 --> 00:05:20,906
He was a companion of both
the Apostles Peter and Paul.
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00:05:21,217 --> 00:05:25,876
Church tradition says Mark
arrived in Alexandria from Rome
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00:05:25,877 --> 00:05:29,880
around the year 60 during
the reign of Emperor Nero,
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00:05:29,881 --> 00:05:32,228
who was no fan
of Christianity.
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00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:37,543
The oldest Christian school
or university that we know of
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00:05:37,544 --> 00:05:42,099
was established at least
as early as the year 180.
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00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:46,068
We even know the names and
still have some of the writings
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00:05:46,069 --> 00:05:51,246
of the heads of this school;
Pantanous, Clement and Origen.
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00:05:51,247 --> 00:05:54,283
These were all highly
trained philosophers
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00:05:54,284 --> 00:05:55,802
who converted to Christianity,
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00:05:55,803 --> 00:05:58,495
and in the face
of staunch opposition
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00:05:58,496 --> 00:06:00,048
from Roman authorities,
86
00:06:00,049 --> 00:06:02,015
tried to demonstrate
that Jesus Christ
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00:06:02,016 --> 00:06:04,190
was the fulfilment
of everything
88
00:06:04,191 --> 00:06:07,158
Greco-Roman
culture was longing for.
89
00:06:07,159 --> 00:06:09,645
They had mixed success.
90
00:06:11,371 --> 00:06:13,302
Roman authorities
found Christians in
91
00:06:13,303 --> 00:06:15,132
this period really annoying,
92
00:06:15,133 --> 00:06:18,618
not just because Christianity
was rapidly expanding,
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00:06:18,619 --> 00:06:21,207
but because Christians
refused to worship
94
00:06:21,208 --> 00:06:23,347
the local Greek
and Roman gods,
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00:06:23,348 --> 00:06:25,107
and so they were
seen as culturally
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00:06:25,108 --> 00:06:27,455
subversive, even disloyal.
97
00:06:27,456 --> 00:06:30,319
And sometimes this
annoyance spilled over
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00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,218
into actual violence.
99
00:06:32,219 --> 00:06:35,186
We know of one
major riot here in Egypt
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00:06:35,187 --> 00:06:39,398
that resulted in the clubbing
to death of many Christians,
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00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:42,297
including the local
bishop named George.
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00:06:42,298 --> 00:06:44,817
They grabbed
George out of his church,
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00:06:44,818 --> 00:06:48,061
strapped him to a camel
and beat him to a pulp.
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00:06:48,062 --> 00:06:52,101
And then they set him on
fire, along with the camel.
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00:06:53,930 --> 00:06:58,071
Stories of early Christian
persecution and martyrdom
106
00:06:58,072 --> 00:07:00,453
have sometimes been exaggerated,
107
00:07:00,454 --> 00:07:04,250
but all historians agree
things reached a fever pitch
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00:07:04,251 --> 00:07:07,460
between Emperor Decius
in the year 250
109
00:07:07,461 --> 00:07:11,016
and Emperor Diocletian in 303.
110
00:07:12,121 --> 00:07:14,916
Many Christians,
both leaders and laypeople,
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00:07:14,917 --> 00:07:19,783
were executed in this period,
including here in Egypt.
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00:07:19,784 --> 00:07:23,787
One of Emperor Diocletian's
decrees targeted what he thought
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00:07:23,788 --> 00:07:27,307
was the key to Christian
growth: their writings,
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00:07:27,308 --> 00:07:29,413
"All Christian books",
he said,
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00:07:29,414 --> 00:07:32,555
"were to be seized and
destroyed".
116
00:07:33,211 --> 00:07:35,902
This is an ancient
Christian codex,
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00:07:35,903 --> 00:07:37,835
the precursor to the book.
118
00:07:37,836 --> 00:07:40,148
It's basically
papyrus leaves cut to
119
00:07:40,149 --> 00:07:41,598
shape, sewn together,
120
00:07:41,599 --> 00:07:43,807
and then bound in
something sturdy, like
121
00:07:43,808 --> 00:07:45,499
these leather book covers.
122
00:07:45,775 --> 00:07:48,363
The interesting thing is
we know that Christians
123
00:07:48,364 --> 00:07:51,193
were the first to
popularise the book form
124
00:07:51,194 --> 00:07:53,368
over the scrolls
we normally associate
125
00:07:53,369 --> 00:07:54,611
with the ancient world.
126
00:07:54,612 --> 00:07:56,405
And the reason
for this is that books
127
00:07:56,406 --> 00:08:00,168
were far more transportable
than a box of scrolls.
128
00:08:00,169 --> 00:08:02,722
And one thing we know about
Christians in this period,
129
00:08:02,723 --> 00:08:04,759
they were constantly
on the move,
130
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,071
trying to transport
their faith and their
131
00:08:07,072 --> 00:08:08,798
books to further lands.
132
00:08:10,179 --> 00:08:12,905
And on one piece of
papyrus from this period,
133
00:08:12,906 --> 00:08:17,426
we have a Christian hymn,
complete with musical notation.
134
00:08:17,427 --> 00:08:19,532
We not only know
what Christians were
135
00:08:19,533 --> 00:08:21,707
teaching in
these early centuries,
136
00:08:21,708 --> 00:08:23,605
we know what
they were singing.
137
00:08:23,606 --> 00:08:27,161
But for this,
we have to travel south.
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00:08:43,281 --> 00:08:45,627
Our destination is Oxyrhynchus,
139
00:08:45,628 --> 00:08:48,043
about another 100 or
so kilometres from here.
140
00:08:48,044 --> 00:08:50,459
And I don't deny,
I'm pretty excited.
141
00:08:50,460 --> 00:08:53,014
For years, I've been
reading about this place
142
00:08:53,015 --> 00:08:57,156
and the stuff they've found
there, and now I get to go.
143
00:08:57,157 --> 00:09:00,400
It was a thriving
metropolis in Roman times,
144
00:09:00,401 --> 00:09:04,059
but I'm preparing myself for
nothing but sun-baked ruins
145
00:09:04,060 --> 00:09:05,786
and ancient rubbish dumps,
146
00:09:06,166 --> 00:09:07,581
which I still quite like.
147
00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,181
Oxyrhynchus has a long history,
148
00:09:22,182 --> 00:09:25,356
stretching back to the
20th Pharaonic dynasty
149
00:09:25,357 --> 00:09:29,257
of the New Kingdom
period, roughly 1100 BC.
150
00:09:29,258 --> 00:09:32,778
The town was originally
known as Per-Medjed
151
00:09:32,779 --> 00:09:35,919
At first, it was a
kind of military station
152
00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,199
designed to protect
vital caravan routes.
153
00:09:54,352 --> 00:09:57,388
Dr. Esther Pons
is the head of the
154
00:09:57,389 --> 00:09:59,563
Department of
Egyptian Antiquities
155
00:09:59,564 --> 00:10:04,257
and the Near East at Spain's
National Archaeological Museum.
156
00:10:04,258 --> 00:10:06,984
Archaeologically speaking,
she's the boss here
157
00:10:06,985 --> 00:10:09,263
and a wonderful host.
158
00:10:10,023 --> 00:10:14,474
Alexander the Great
conquered Egypt in 332 BC.
159
00:10:14,475 --> 00:10:16,753
It was a cultural
turning point,
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00:10:16,754 --> 00:10:19,756
transforming Egypt
and cities like this one
161
00:10:19,757 --> 00:10:23,794
into thoroughly
Hellenistic or Greek domains.
162
00:10:23,795 --> 00:10:27,695
Local Greek speakers call
this place Oxyrhynchopolis,
163
00:10:27,696 --> 00:10:31,215
the city or polis of the
sharp-nosed fish,
164
00:10:31,216 --> 00:10:32,561
the Oxyrhynchus.
165
00:10:32,562 --> 00:10:35,945
And you can just make
out the little guy here.
166
00:10:36,636 --> 00:10:39,879
Now, locals actually
worship this fish as a god,
167
00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,054
and there are some
bizarre ancient myths
168
00:10:42,055 --> 00:10:43,745
about what he got up to.
169
00:10:43,746 --> 00:10:46,127
But it's not
exactly family-friendly,
170
00:10:46,128 --> 00:10:48,233
so I'll leave
you to Google that.
171
00:10:52,479 --> 00:10:55,723
The original city went
about two kilometres this way
172
00:10:55,724 --> 00:10:57,552
and another two
kilometres that way.
173
00:10:57,553 --> 00:11:00,555
Over 50,000
people once lived here,
174
00:11:00,556 --> 00:11:04,111
making it the second-largest
city in Egypt at the time.
175
00:11:05,009 --> 00:11:07,527
The population
enjoyed a fusion of
176
00:11:07,528 --> 00:11:09,288
Greek language and learning,
177
00:11:09,289 --> 00:11:13,431
combined with Egyptian
funeral rites and deities.
178
00:11:14,501 --> 00:11:16,467
Sometime in the
second century,
179
00:11:16,468 --> 00:11:20,161
Christians arrived here
with their strange notions,
180
00:11:20,162 --> 00:11:22,197
not only that there's
just one god,
181
00:11:22,198 --> 00:11:25,718
but that this god had entered
the world in a concrete way
182
00:11:25,719 --> 00:11:30,068
in the life of a man from
Nazareth, 400 miles north.
183
00:11:31,518 --> 00:11:34,554
And it remains one of the
mysteries of ancient history
184
00:11:34,555 --> 00:11:39,076
that Christians without
any power or armies or wealth
185
00:11:39,077 --> 00:11:41,665
were able to
persuade so many people
186
00:11:41,666 --> 00:11:44,012
to abandon the
traditional gods,
187
00:11:44,013 --> 00:11:47,015
Serapis, Osiris,
the long-nosed fish,
188
00:11:47,016 --> 00:11:49,225
and worship Jesus Christ.
189
00:12:15,458 --> 00:12:17,080
In the late Roman
Empire,
190
00:12:17,081 --> 00:12:18,944
the so-called
Byzantine period,
191
00:12:18,945 --> 00:12:21,670
a number of monasteries for
monks and nuns
192
00:12:21,671 --> 00:12:23,880
were built
outside the city walls,
193
00:12:23,881 --> 00:12:26,987
making Oxyrhynchus a
significant Christian centre.
194
00:12:27,885 --> 00:12:31,922
All of that changed with
the Muslim conquest of Egypt
195
00:12:31,923 --> 00:12:33,855
in the 640s AD.
196
00:12:33,856 --> 00:12:37,791
It brought to an end
seven centuries of Roman rule.
197
00:12:37,998 --> 00:12:40,344
Oxyrhynchus began to shrink,
198
00:12:40,345 --> 00:12:44,004
and by the Middle Ages, it was
little more than a ruin.
199
00:12:45,488 --> 00:12:49,284
The British
conquered Egypt in 1882,
200
00:12:49,285 --> 00:12:51,804
partly motivated by
protecting their interests
201
00:12:51,805 --> 00:12:54,462
in the shipping
lanes of the Suez Canal.
202
00:12:54,463 --> 00:12:56,947
British control
paved the way for British
203
00:12:56,948 --> 00:13:00,364
academics to research,
some would say to plunder,
204
00:13:00,365 --> 00:13:02,919
Egypt's hidden treasures.
205
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,956
In 1897,
two Oxford scholars,
206
00:13:05,957 --> 00:13:08,269
Bernard Grenfell
and Arthur Hunt,
207
00:13:08,270 --> 00:13:10,478
decided to mount
an expedition to the
208
00:13:10,479 --> 00:13:13,240
once great city
of Oxyrhynchus.
209
00:13:14,690 --> 00:13:16,829
Grenfell and Hunt were
particularly interested
210
00:13:16,830 --> 00:13:19,383
in finding papyri,
the basic writing material
211
00:13:19,384 --> 00:13:21,006
of the Roman world.
212
00:13:21,007 --> 00:13:24,112
So, the locals brought them
out here to the edge of town,
213
00:13:24,113 --> 00:13:25,562
to the rubbish dumps.
214
00:13:25,563 --> 00:13:28,013
Grenfell wasn't
super impressed.
215
00:13:28,014 --> 00:13:29,600
In fact,
he wrote in his diary,
216
00:13:29,601 --> 00:13:32,672
"My first impressions on
examining the site
217
00:13:32,673 --> 00:13:34,295
were not very favourable.
218
00:13:34,296 --> 00:13:37,264
"The rubbish mounds were
nothing but rubbish mounds."
219
00:13:37,575 --> 00:13:40,577
He soon realised, though,
that he had chanced upon
220
00:13:40,578 --> 00:13:44,133
the greatest discovery
of ancient texts ever.
221
00:13:44,547 --> 00:13:48,412
Those first few scraps
of papyrus quickly revealed
222
00:13:48,413 --> 00:13:51,622
an entire
discarded ancient archive.
223
00:13:51,623 --> 00:13:56,386
"The flow of papyri soon became
a torrent," Grenfell wrote.
224
00:13:56,387 --> 00:13:59,147
"Merely turning up the
soil with one's boot
225
00:13:59,148 --> 00:14:01,806
would frequently
disclose a layer".
226
00:14:09,055 --> 00:14:10,919
Hey, Siri,
what's the high today?
227
00:14:12,196 --> 00:14:16,268
"The high temperature will
be 36 degrees Celsius today".
228
00:14:16,269 --> 00:14:17,890
And it feels it.
229
00:14:17,891 --> 00:14:20,859
This was the key to the
discovery of these documents.
230
00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:25,208
Paper dies in the damp,
but it thrives in the
231
00:14:25,209 --> 00:14:27,589
hot, dry conditions of Egypt.
232
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:30,351
I'm no fan of 100
degrees Fahrenheit,
233
00:14:30,352 --> 00:14:32,699
but papyrus loves it.
234
00:14:33,389 --> 00:14:35,908
Grenfell and
Hunt employed locals to
235
00:14:35,909 --> 00:14:37,668
carefully store the papyri,
236
00:14:37,669 --> 00:14:41,638
but they could hardly keep
pace with the rate of discovery,
237
00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:43,883
and they were
running out of containers.
238
00:14:44,366 --> 00:14:46,919
In the end,
they uncovered more than
239
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,577
half a million
scraps of papyri,
240
00:14:49,578 --> 00:14:53,547
spanning the Greek,
Roman and Islamic periods.
241
00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:59,207
This historical gold mine
included letters, contracts,
242
00:14:59,208 --> 00:15:02,762
official records, plays,
poetry and philosophy,
243
00:15:02,763 --> 00:15:05,904
as well as pages
of the New Testament.
244
00:15:05,905 --> 00:15:08,354
It's impossible to overstate
245
00:15:08,355 --> 00:15:10,632
how much the Oxyrhynchus papyri
246
00:15:10,633 --> 00:15:13,498
have helped us understand
the ancient world.
247
00:15:13,843 --> 00:15:17,087
Our focus is on just
one scrap of papyrus,
248
00:15:17,088 --> 00:15:19,572
uncovered here in 1918.
249
00:15:19,573 --> 00:15:21,057
It's not even a page, really,
250
00:15:21,058 --> 00:15:23,576
it's just 30 centimetres
by 5 centimetres,
251
00:15:23,577 --> 00:15:26,407
but it provides
amazing early evidence,
252
00:15:26,408 --> 00:15:29,444
not only of the beliefs
and spread of Christianity,
253
00:15:29,445 --> 00:15:31,585
but also of its music.
254
00:15:32,345 --> 00:15:34,553
Oxyrhynchus is
the home of what we've
255
00:15:34,554 --> 00:15:36,762
come to call The First Hymn,
256
00:15:36,763 --> 00:15:40,352
the earliest Christian
song with musical notation.
257
00:15:40,353 --> 00:15:43,355
Its Greek words
and melody sound strange
258
00:15:43,356 --> 00:15:46,047
to our 21st century ear,
259
00:15:46,048 --> 00:15:47,600
but the song
must have been popular
260
00:15:47,601 --> 00:15:50,639
amongst Egypt's
early Christians.
261
00:15:51,329 --> 00:15:53,227
It might have
been sung in people's
262
00:15:53,228 --> 00:15:56,333
houses, in marketplaces
and, of course,
263
00:15:56,334 --> 00:15:59,267
in churches like
this giant basilica,
264
00:15:59,268 --> 00:16:01,615
built to hold 1,000 people.
265
00:16:02,547 --> 00:16:06,792
The song hasn't been heard
around here for many centuries.
266
00:16:06,793 --> 00:16:09,554
I thought I'd have a
go at bringing it home.
267
00:16:24,259 --> 00:16:26,122
At the time,
Grenfell and Hunt
268
00:16:26,123 --> 00:16:28,710
had little idea of
what they'd uncovered.
269
00:16:28,711 --> 00:16:32,473
The fragment was
catalogued - number 1786 -
270
00:16:32,474 --> 00:16:35,234
packed in a biscuit tin
alongside other papyri
271
00:16:35,235 --> 00:16:39,619
and sent here to the
University of Oxford.
272
00:16:41,069 --> 00:16:43,277
The University of
Oxford is one of the
273
00:16:43,278 --> 00:16:45,037
oldest in the world.
274
00:16:45,038 --> 00:16:47,281
It's been educating
English speakers
275
00:16:47,282 --> 00:16:49,283
and Latin speakers before that
276
00:16:49,284 --> 00:16:51,424
for over 900 years.
277
00:16:52,908 --> 00:16:56,221
These lovely doorways were
once the actual entrances
278
00:16:56,222 --> 00:16:58,706
to the various subjects
taught here at Oxford.
279
00:16:58,707 --> 00:17:01,640
This, of course,
is the School of Logic.
280
00:17:01,641 --> 00:17:06,921
And next door is the School
of Astronomy and Rhetoric,
281
00:17:06,922 --> 00:17:10,062
which is a very weird
combination of subjects.
282
00:17:10,063 --> 00:17:11,822
I love this
guy's face right here.
283
00:17:11,823 --> 00:17:15,136
This is now the Bodleian
gift shop next time you're here.
284
00:17:15,137 --> 00:17:19,968
And over here is the Schola
Musicae, the School of Music.
285
00:17:19,969 --> 00:17:23,524
Now, Oxford's medieval
setting is our doorway
286
00:17:23,525 --> 00:17:25,733
to something much,
much older,
287
00:17:25,734 --> 00:17:30,049
to the first Christian
hymn with musical notation.
288
00:17:30,290 --> 00:17:32,671
Scholars call
it Papyrus Oxyrhynchus,
289
00:17:32,672 --> 00:17:37,401
catalog number 1786,
P. Oxy 1786.
290
00:17:40,507 --> 00:17:43,716
Along with literally
thousands of other bits of paper
291
00:17:43,717 --> 00:17:47,341
from the ancient
world, our P. Oxy 1786
292
00:17:47,342 --> 00:17:50,171
is stored safely here
at the Sackler Library,
293
00:17:50,172 --> 00:17:53,692
or more precisely, up in the
papyrology rooms of Level 1.
294
00:17:53,693 --> 00:17:55,521
This is home to
the world's most
295
00:17:55,522 --> 00:17:58,594
extensive collection
of ancient Greek papyri.
296
00:17:59,699 --> 00:18:01,700
Although they recently
changed the name
297
00:18:01,701 --> 00:18:06,394
to the Bodleian Art, Archaeology
and Ancient World Library,
298
00:18:06,395 --> 00:18:08,327
because of
the billionaire Sackler
299
00:18:08,328 --> 00:18:12,332
family's association with the
opioid crisis in the US.
300
00:18:13,092 --> 00:18:15,369
The official
custodian of the papyri
301
00:18:15,370 --> 00:18:17,819
is the
Egypt Exploration Society,
302
00:18:17,820 --> 00:18:21,790
and their collections manager is
Dr. Stephanie Boonstra.
303
00:18:22,618 --> 00:18:27,415
The fragments range from
about the late first century BC
304
00:18:27,416 --> 00:18:29,452
up until the seventh century AD,
305
00:18:29,453 --> 00:18:32,869
and we have information
about ancient cities,
306
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:34,664
about the people,
what they were doing,
307
00:18:34,665 --> 00:18:36,838
but also of things
like their religion,
308
00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:39,565
and it was a monastic city,
309
00:18:39,566 --> 00:18:43,122
so we have this
Christian evidence as well.
310
00:18:43,329 --> 00:18:44,708
And I think
I recognize this one.
311
00:18:44,709 --> 00:18:47,125
Yes, yeah, this is one
that you'll probably know
312
00:18:47,126 --> 00:18:48,886
a lot about as
well as your viewers.
313
00:18:49,335 --> 00:18:52,716
So here we have
a few fragments of
314
00:18:52,717 --> 00:18:54,028
New Testament fragments.
315
00:18:54,029 --> 00:18:58,309
So here we have one that
was most recently published,
316
00:18:58,551 --> 00:19:01,380
and it's a fragment
from the Gospel of Mark.
317
00:19:01,381 --> 00:19:03,279
It's the opening
paragraph, isn't it?
318
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,521
Yes, yeah, it's Mark 1.
319
00:19:04,522 --> 00:19:06,109
Pretty much a couple of
paragraphs.
320
00:19:06,110 --> 00:19:09,216
Yeah, and so it's gotten a
lot of buzz in recent years.
321
00:19:09,217 --> 00:19:13,323
It's one of the earliest
examples of a fragment
322
00:19:13,324 --> 00:19:15,119
from the Gospel of Mark.
323
00:19:16,293 --> 00:19:18,294
The New Testament
texts themselves,
324
00:19:18,295 --> 00:19:20,710
some of which are among
the Oxyrhynchus papyri,
325
00:19:20,711 --> 00:19:23,885
regularly refer to
the singing of songs.
326
00:19:23,886 --> 00:19:27,993
The Gospels say Jesus and the
Apostles sang hymns together.
327
00:19:27,994 --> 00:19:29,753
The letters of
Paul to the churches
328
00:19:29,754 --> 00:19:33,344
urged the faithful to keep
singing and making music.
329
00:19:33,758 --> 00:19:38,210
The words of P. Oxy 1786
provide a unique window
330
00:19:38,211 --> 00:19:41,248
into the content of
ancient Christian singing.
331
00:19:41,249 --> 00:19:43,836
And it wasn't all happy clappy.
332
00:19:43,837 --> 00:19:46,874
This song is
actually a bit nerdy.
333
00:19:46,875 --> 00:19:48,359
And what do we sing?
334
00:19:49,222 --> 00:19:51,983
Patera, Huion, Hagion, Pneuma,
335
00:19:52,501 --> 00:19:55,677
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
336
00:19:55,884 --> 00:19:59,542
Now, scholars often say
this line is of some interest,
337
00:19:59,543 --> 00:20:02,510
and what
they mean is it's amazing.
338
00:20:02,511 --> 00:20:05,582
This is the doctrine
of the Trinity,
339
00:20:05,583 --> 00:20:08,136
the Christian
idea that the one God
340
00:20:08,137 --> 00:20:11,381
is Father, Son,
and Holy Spirit.
341
00:20:11,382 --> 00:20:13,211
And you sometimes
hear that that idea
342
00:20:13,212 --> 00:20:15,592
was only invented much later,
343
00:20:15,593 --> 00:20:19,734
say in 325 at
the Council of Nicaea
344
00:20:19,735 --> 00:20:22,220
when Emperor Constantine
forced this
345
00:20:22,221 --> 00:20:23,842
doctrine on the church.
346
00:20:23,843 --> 00:20:28,330
But the thing is,
here's the idea in a song
347
00:20:28,779 --> 00:20:30,712
from the previous century.
348
00:20:32,990 --> 00:20:37,235
Eventually
as the church received
349
00:20:37,236 --> 00:20:39,824
Israel's witness and Scripture,
350
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:46,209
and reflected
profoundly on the significance
351
00:20:46,210 --> 00:20:49,488
of Jesus Christ,
his dying and rising,
352
00:20:49,489 --> 00:20:51,525
his presence among us,
353
00:20:51,526 --> 00:20:54,770
and the Spirit
poured out on all flesh,
354
00:20:55,461 --> 00:20:58,428
they came to see that this
355
00:20:58,429 --> 00:21:02,777
was the life of Trinity
356
00:21:02,778 --> 00:21:04,814
turned toward the world.
357
00:21:04,815 --> 00:21:07,230
Katherine Sonderegger
was educated
358
00:21:07,231 --> 00:21:09,715
at Yale and Brown Universities,
359
00:21:09,716 --> 00:21:12,408
and is now one of the
most celebrated names
360
00:21:12,409 --> 00:21:16,101
in that strange
field known as Theology.
361
00:21:16,102 --> 00:21:17,861
Okay, let's talk about Trinity.
362
00:21:17,862 --> 00:21:22,003
Can you give me the dummies
guide to what is the Trinity?
363
00:21:22,004 --> 00:21:27,112
Trinity is eternally
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
364
00:21:27,113 --> 00:21:29,771
even if there were no cosmos,
365
00:21:30,185 --> 00:21:32,462
a God would be the living God
366
00:21:32,463 --> 00:21:35,534
who offers himself in the Word
367
00:21:35,535 --> 00:21:38,917
and receives that
Word back in the Spirit.
368
00:21:38,918 --> 00:21:43,267
That would be true of
God's life regardless.
369
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:46,200
Wouldn't it have been
simpler for the early Christians
370
00:21:46,201 --> 00:21:48,720
just to go down
the Greco-Roman path
371
00:21:48,721 --> 00:21:52,379
and say that the Trinity is
really three different gods,
372
00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:55,485
or maybe three manifestations
of the one God?
373
00:21:55,486 --> 00:21:58,937
It would be possible
to look at the relation
374
00:21:58,938 --> 00:22:03,391
between the emperor
and the junior emperors,
375
00:22:04,357 --> 00:22:09,257
and get an idea that there
is a high God, the Father,
376
00:22:09,258 --> 00:22:14,055
and then these
subordinate Caesars,
377
00:22:14,056 --> 00:22:16,403
but only a doctrine that
378
00:22:16,404 --> 00:22:19,406
saw all of these elements
379
00:22:19,407 --> 00:22:24,859
as one and as fully
God actually captured
380
00:22:24,860 --> 00:22:28,830
what it means to say
God is the living God.
381
00:22:30,556 --> 00:22:32,280
The New
Testament didn't begin
382
00:22:32,281 --> 00:22:34,352
with an abstract
concept of deity,
383
00:22:34,353 --> 00:22:35,939
or even the Greco-Roman deity,
384
00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:37,355
and say Jesus is like that.
385
00:22:37,356 --> 00:22:38,286
What they actually did
386
00:22:38,287 --> 00:22:39,702
is say Jesus was like
387
00:22:39,703 --> 00:22:40,911
the one God of Israel.
388
00:22:41,463 --> 00:22:44,396
Esau McCaulley says the
first Jewish Christians
389
00:22:44,397 --> 00:22:47,261
didn't see Jesus as another God,
390
00:22:47,262 --> 00:22:51,473
but somehow as the
God of Israel in person.
391
00:22:52,819 --> 00:22:58,306
And so what you see then
is not the Jewish Christians
392
00:22:58,307 --> 00:23:01,793
saying, "Oh,
Jesus is like Zeus."
393
00:23:01,794 --> 00:23:05,590
They're saying that somehow
within the one divine identity,
394
00:23:05,591 --> 00:23:08,420
you have the Father,
the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
395
00:23:08,421 --> 00:23:09,835
I can give you an example.
396
00:23:09,836 --> 00:23:13,080
There's this passage in
1 Corinthians 8, verse 6,
397
00:23:13,081 --> 00:23:14,702
where it has the Shema.
398
00:23:14,703 --> 00:23:20,467
Shema is one of the most holy
passages for the Israelites.
399
00:23:20,468 --> 00:23:22,814
"Hear, O Israel, the
Lord your God is one."
400
00:23:22,815 --> 00:23:24,574
And you should worship
the Lord your God only.
401
00:23:24,575 --> 00:23:26,611
And so, one God,
that was it.
402
00:23:26,612 --> 00:23:28,854
But when Paul
quotes it, he says,
403
00:23:28,855 --> 00:23:30,822
"You might have
many gods, but for us,
404
00:23:30,823 --> 00:23:34,171
there's one God the Father
and one Lord Jesus Christ."
405
00:23:34,413 --> 00:23:36,310
It's clear
Christians were
406
00:23:36,311 --> 00:23:38,795
reflecting on the Trinity
and singing about it
407
00:23:38,796 --> 00:23:41,419
long before the concepts
were formalized in
408
00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:43,663
the famous Nicene Creed.
409
00:23:44,112 --> 00:23:46,458
Here's how
the hymn in part puts it,
410
00:23:46,459 --> 00:23:51,119
"Let all be silent,
shining stars not sound,
411
00:23:51,395 --> 00:23:53,948
as we sing our hymn to the
412
00:23:53,949 --> 00:23:56,641
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
413
00:23:56,642 --> 00:24:01,232
the only giver of all good
gifts. Amen."
414
00:24:01,854 --> 00:24:05,615
But what adds to the
interest in P.Oxy 1786
415
00:24:05,616 --> 00:24:08,446
is that it contains
more than words.
416
00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:12,484
You can see these little
squiggles above the words.
417
00:24:12,485 --> 00:24:15,556
That's ancient
Greek musical notation.
418
00:24:15,557 --> 00:24:18,215
It tells us
the melody of the hymn.
419
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,630
And what's so fun about this
420
00:24:20,631 --> 00:24:23,564
is that the tune
isn't the stodgy stuff
421
00:24:23,565 --> 00:24:26,705
we often associate
with chanting monks.
422
00:24:26,706 --> 00:24:28,293
It's pop music.
423
00:24:28,294 --> 00:24:30,675
It's the kind of
melody you'd expect to hear
424
00:24:30,676 --> 00:24:34,541
at an ancient Greek pub or at
some theater performance.
425
00:24:34,542 --> 00:24:37,716
Whoever composed this song
was trying to take
426
00:24:37,717 --> 00:24:41,858
serious Christian ideas
and give them to the masses.
427
00:24:41,859 --> 00:24:43,998
This is not just theology,
428
00:24:43,999 --> 00:24:45,794
it's public Christianity.
429
00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:54,561
As far as we know,
430
00:24:54,562 --> 00:24:55,734
there was music everywhere,
431
00:24:55,735 --> 00:24:58,013
just as there
is in today's world.
432
00:24:58,255 --> 00:25:02,397
The main musical
fragments that have survived
433
00:25:03,087 --> 00:25:05,295
relate to such things
434
00:25:05,296 --> 00:25:08,022
as music in theater,
435
00:25:08,023 --> 00:25:09,749
so music of tragedy.
436
00:25:11,130 --> 00:25:14,304
There's something
called a skolion,
437
00:25:14,305 --> 00:25:16,687
which is a drinking song
438
00:25:16,998 --> 00:25:21,140
with an epicurean theme,
"Live Now Because We All Die."
439
00:25:22,106 --> 00:25:24,349
There's music from
440
00:25:24,350 --> 00:25:26,213
performances
that might have taken place
441
00:25:26,214 --> 00:25:29,216
in large-scale
open-air theaters,
442
00:25:29,217 --> 00:25:31,011
but also stuff that might have
443
00:25:31,012 --> 00:25:34,222
been sung in smaller venues.
444
00:25:34,912 --> 00:25:37,880
Armand D'Angour
is a world authority
445
00:25:37,881 --> 00:25:41,470
on the music, text, and
culture of ancient Greece.
446
00:25:42,057 --> 00:25:46,130
Now you've had a chance
to look at our P.Oxy 1786.
447
00:25:46,579 --> 00:25:48,960
How does it compare melodically
448
00:25:48,961 --> 00:25:51,688
to other bits and pieces
of music we've found?
449
00:25:53,206 --> 00:25:56,554
Interestingly, I think
it shows very clearly
450
00:25:56,555 --> 00:25:59,487
the influence of
Greek musical tradition
451
00:25:59,488 --> 00:26:01,869
going back all
the way to the earliest
452
00:26:01,870 --> 00:26:03,458
document that we have.
453
00:26:03,872 --> 00:26:06,840
And the Christian hymn
454
00:26:06,841 --> 00:26:09,532
is a remarkable discovery
455
00:26:09,533 --> 00:26:13,744
because it's the only
Christian piece of music
456
00:26:14,158 --> 00:26:16,298
using the ancient
pagan notation.
457
00:26:16,678 --> 00:26:20,405
More recently, scholars
have recognized that
458
00:26:20,406 --> 00:26:23,581
it isn't really any different
from that earlier music
459
00:26:23,582 --> 00:26:27,586
in terms of the way it
uses the melodic structures.
460
00:26:29,139 --> 00:26:32,313
The writer of this
first hymn seems to have had
461
00:26:32,314 --> 00:26:35,903
one eye on pagan,
that's Greco-Roman,
462
00:26:35,904 --> 00:26:37,560
religion and culture.
463
00:26:37,561 --> 00:26:40,218
One of the lines
contains not just a
464
00:26:40,219 --> 00:26:42,703
straightforward piece
of Christian teaching,
465
00:26:42,704 --> 00:26:45,533
but what looks
like a bold comparison
466
00:26:45,534 --> 00:26:48,503
between Greek gods
and the Holy Trinity.
467
00:26:49,124 --> 00:26:51,298
My favourite bit
is here at the end.
468
00:26:51,299 --> 00:26:54,473
We sort of lose
the words over here,
469
00:26:54,474 --> 00:26:56,959
so it's a bit of guesswork
knowing what was there.
470
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,134
And then we can just make
out the top of the words
471
00:27:00,135 --> 00:27:03,621
to "the only giver
of all good gifts",
472
00:27:03,622 --> 00:27:05,692
Panton Agathon.
473
00:27:05,693 --> 00:27:10,041
God is described as
the great gift giver.
474
00:27:10,042 --> 00:27:12,768
And with that theme,
the hymn ends in
475
00:27:12,769 --> 00:27:17,289
good Christian fashion
with the words, "Amen, amen".
476
00:27:17,290 --> 00:27:20,017
Which is a way of saying,
"we really believe this".
477
00:27:20,569 --> 00:27:24,814
Experts have pointed out
the expression "giver of gifts"
478
00:27:24,815 --> 00:27:28,369
was a stock description
of a god like Zeus,
479
00:27:28,370 --> 00:27:29,819
the chief of the gods whom
480
00:27:29,820 --> 00:27:31,891
the Romans called Jupiter.
481
00:27:32,167 --> 00:27:35,308
Our Christian hymn
calls this into question.
482
00:27:35,550 --> 00:27:38,759
The one true God,
Father, Son and Holy Spirit
483
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:44,489
is said to be the only
giver of all good gifts.
484
00:27:44,490 --> 00:27:48,425
It's confident,
even a little cheeky.
485
00:27:49,012 --> 00:27:50,460
Love it or hate it,
486
00:27:50,461 --> 00:27:52,911
Jews and Christians
have always said
487
00:27:52,912 --> 00:27:58,469
there's one God and he's Lord of
everywhere and everyone.
488
00:27:58,746 --> 00:28:03,682
P.Oxy 1786 is a musical
rendition of this same idea.
489
00:28:06,512 --> 00:28:09,652
So we've set
ourselves a challenge.
490
00:28:09,653 --> 00:28:12,172
As interesting
as the history is,
491
00:28:12,173 --> 00:28:14,692
our hope is to go
beyond the ancient,
492
00:28:14,693 --> 00:28:17,764
to see if we can
replicate here and now
493
00:28:17,765 --> 00:28:20,732
what those early Christians
were trying to achieve
494
00:28:20,733 --> 00:28:22,010
through this song.
495
00:28:22,252 --> 00:28:25,219
Well, if architecture is
for admiring,
496
00:28:25,220 --> 00:28:27,946
food and wine for tasting,
497
00:28:27,947 --> 00:28:30,086
songs are for singing.
498
00:28:30,087 --> 00:28:34,435
We've talked to the ancient
experts about P.Oxy 1786,
499
00:28:34,436 --> 00:28:37,335
but if we wanna resurrect
this hymn for a new audience,
500
00:28:37,336 --> 00:28:39,647
we've gotta talk to a
couple of my friends,
501
00:28:39,648 --> 00:28:42,271
some of the most accomplished
Christian songwriters
502
00:28:42,272 --> 00:28:43,618
in the world today.
503
00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:52,454
Our first stop is
my hometown of Sydney.
504
00:28:53,490 --> 00:28:56,147
I managed to grab
some time with friend
505
00:28:56,148 --> 00:28:58,012
and musician, Ben Fielding.
506
00:28:58,529 --> 00:29:01,324
Ben and his co-writer,
Brooke Ligertwood,
507
00:29:01,325 --> 00:29:04,742
won a Grammy for
their 2018 song
508
00:29:04,743 --> 00:29:06,502
What a Beautiful Name.
509
00:29:06,503 --> 00:29:09,885
If you've ventured into
a church in the last few years,
510
00:29:09,886 --> 00:29:12,508
there's a pretty good chance
you've heard it.
511
00:29:12,509 --> 00:29:16,719
Then there's the gold record
making song, This I Believe,
512
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,377
where Ben took
The Apostles' Creed,
513
00:29:19,378 --> 00:29:21,344
an ancient statement of
Christian belief,
514
00:29:21,345 --> 00:29:23,864
and turned it into
a cracking song.
515
00:29:23,865 --> 00:29:28,938
Last time I checked, it had
more than 130 million plays
516
00:29:28,939 --> 00:29:30,423
just on Spotify.
517
00:29:31,666 --> 00:29:35,220
Ben didn't need much
convincing to help us bring
518
00:29:35,221 --> 00:29:37,015
the first hymn back to life.
519
00:29:37,016 --> 00:29:38,568
I fired off the lyrics
520
00:29:38,569 --> 00:29:41,502
and some of my
singing to inspire him.
521
00:29:41,503 --> 00:29:42,746
Hopefully.
522
00:29:46,992 --> 00:29:49,545
It seems Ben was
sold on the project
523
00:29:49,546 --> 00:29:51,686
without my powers
of persuasion.
524
00:29:52,652 --> 00:29:54,793
Mate, this is such
an exciting project.
525
00:29:55,552 --> 00:29:57,485
Anybody that I mention it to,
526
00:29:58,210 --> 00:30:00,143
they're fascinated
by this idea that,
527
00:30:00,695 --> 00:30:03,524
that firstly,
the hymn's been discovered,
528
00:30:03,525 --> 00:30:06,182
and then the idea of
bringing it back to life.
529
00:30:06,183 --> 00:30:08,219
I think, of course,
everybody always says,
530
00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:09,807
"What happens if
the song's no good?"
531
00:30:09,808 --> 00:30:12,465
I can't get away from that.
That's every single person.
532
00:30:12,741 --> 00:30:14,432
But I think that
there's still just something
533
00:30:14,433 --> 00:30:16,815
in the journey of
bringing this back to life.
534
00:30:18,092 --> 00:30:19,886
Ben's been thinking his
way
535
00:30:19,887 --> 00:30:21,473
through the original melody.
536
00:30:21,474 --> 00:30:24,856
He reckons songwriters,
whether ancient or modern,
537
00:30:24,857 --> 00:30:26,238
face similar challenges.
538
00:30:27,239 --> 00:30:30,552
The melody
range is quite narrow.
539
00:30:30,829 --> 00:30:34,072
Rhythmically, it's not
too complicated or complex.
540
00:30:34,073 --> 00:30:35,660
You can imagine a lot of people.
541
00:30:35,661 --> 00:30:37,593
What about the little
trills over the Amen's, though?
542
00:30:37,594 --> 00:30:39,664
- Well, those are cool.
- They are so cool.
543
00:30:39,665 --> 00:30:40,768
Yeah.
544
00:30:40,769 --> 00:30:43,219
But I imagine
ancient congregations
545
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:44,669
trying to pull that off,
because you wouldn't
546
00:30:44,670 --> 00:30:47,327
have that kind of trill
in a modern hymn.
547
00:30:47,328 --> 00:30:49,122
Have you ever
put a trill like that?
548
00:30:49,123 --> 00:30:51,020
I haven't.
I know that there's some
549
00:30:51,021 --> 00:30:53,196
more elaborate melodies that,
550
00:30:53,713 --> 00:30:56,405
and sometimes you gotta be
careful that you don't dumb down
551
00:30:56,406 --> 00:30:58,510
a melody too much,
552
00:30:58,511 --> 00:31:00,340
and you just
assume no one can sing it,
553
00:31:00,341 --> 00:31:03,239
because I think if
it's well-structured
554
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,519
and it is memorable,
people go along to a
555
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,487
concert from
their favorite artist
556
00:31:09,488 --> 00:31:12,214
and sing along to
stuff that's quite complex.
557
00:31:12,215 --> 00:31:13,387
And I think if it's memorable,
558
00:31:13,388 --> 00:31:15,113
that you can
get away with a lot.
559
00:31:15,114 --> 00:31:18,599
Thankfully, Ben's
already brimming with ideas.
560
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,017
♪ Let everything
that has breath ♪
561
00:31:22,018 --> 00:31:24,329
♪ Come and praise Him ♪
562
00:31:24,330 --> 00:31:26,159
♪ Praise Him ♪
563
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,541
♪ Praise to the Father ♪
564
00:31:29,542 --> 00:31:32,510
♪ To the Son and the Spirit ♪
565
00:31:32,511 --> 00:31:34,201
♪ Let everything ♪
566
00:31:34,202 --> 00:31:36,721
And then you could kind of
build off something like that.
567
00:31:36,722 --> 00:31:39,034
It often happens
with writers,
568
00:31:39,035 --> 00:31:41,105
whether composers or authors,
569
00:31:41,106 --> 00:31:44,454
a passing thought
suddenly leaps out.
570
00:31:45,006 --> 00:31:46,869
I'd love to find
an Egyptian singer.
571
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:48,422
Yeah.
572
00:31:48,423 --> 00:31:50,528
Can you imagine if we
can find an Egyptian singer
573
00:31:50,529 --> 00:31:53,462
who can do, like maybe,
a little, amen at
574
00:31:53,463 --> 00:31:54,981
different points through.
575
00:31:54,982 --> 00:31:56,396
It could be really haunting.
576
00:31:56,397 --> 00:31:59,124
Well, and to get that
trill sounding authentic.
577
00:31:59,814 --> 00:32:01,539
We'll come back
to that idea.
578
00:32:01,540 --> 00:32:04,370
For now,
we need a collaborator.
579
00:32:10,687 --> 00:32:12,205
Ben put me in touch with
580
00:32:12,206 --> 00:32:15,553
American singer-songwriter,
Chris Tomlin.
581
00:32:15,554 --> 00:32:17,142
I was excited.
582
00:32:17,797 --> 00:32:21,766
Chris has sold
over 12 million records,
583
00:32:21,767 --> 00:32:25,770
and he has over 7
billion streams to his name.
584
00:32:25,771 --> 00:32:29,670
He's a Grammy winner
with over 30 top 10 hits.
585
00:32:29,671 --> 00:32:32,432
It's estimated
that 30 million people
586
00:32:32,433 --> 00:32:35,711
sing Chris's music in
churches every week.
587
00:32:35,712 --> 00:32:37,782
Time magazine
described him as,
588
00:32:37,783 --> 00:32:41,924
"potentially the most often
sung artist in the world".
589
00:32:41,925 --> 00:32:44,306
I love the idea that you
might wanna be involved
590
00:32:44,307 --> 00:32:45,341
with this, Chris.
591
00:32:45,342 --> 00:32:47,620
I love it.
- Oh yeah.
592
00:32:49,174 --> 00:32:52,590
I mean, Ben, you know,
I've known Ben a while,
593
00:32:52,591 --> 00:32:54,764
and I just,
I really trust his writing,
594
00:32:54,765 --> 00:32:56,076
and I trust his heart.
595
00:32:56,077 --> 00:32:58,941
And when he
mentioned your name,
596
00:32:58,942 --> 00:33:00,908
and then I remembered all
the songs you've written,
597
00:33:00,909 --> 00:33:02,703
I thought, oh my goodness,
598
00:33:02,704 --> 00:33:04,912
this could be
very, very special.
599
00:33:04,913 --> 00:33:07,708
Yeah, what a moment.
What an opportunity.
600
00:33:07,709 --> 00:33:09,469
Just incredible.
601
00:33:09,470 --> 00:33:12,196
I am so honored to
be brought into this.
602
00:33:12,197 --> 00:33:13,680
Thank you, Ben,
for reaching out.
603
00:33:13,681 --> 00:33:17,339
Thank you, John, for saying,
"okay, let's do this",
604
00:33:17,340 --> 00:33:20,756
because I love it.
605
00:33:20,757 --> 00:33:23,000
If we can somehow,
606
00:33:23,001 --> 00:33:24,415
sorry, let me correct myself.
607
00:33:24,416 --> 00:33:29,834
If you guys can somehow
bring a beautiful melody
608
00:33:29,835 --> 00:33:32,631
that honors this ancient melody,
609
00:33:33,149 --> 00:33:35,772
and honors,
obviously, the words,
610
00:33:36,531 --> 00:33:39,465
you know, some anonymous
theologian put together,
611
00:33:40,949 --> 00:33:44,711
what a gift this will be to
the church to sing this again.
612
00:33:44,712 --> 00:33:46,678
And that's kind of
what we're trying to do,
613
00:33:46,679 --> 00:33:48,784
is go like, could
the people of God today
614
00:33:48,785 --> 00:33:51,959
join the people of God
back in the, you know,
615
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,547
the second, third century,
616
00:33:53,548 --> 00:33:57,344
in these really early
formative stages of the church?
617
00:33:57,345 --> 00:33:59,382
Could we sing that same hymn?
618
00:33:59,865 --> 00:34:04,386
I'd already sent Chris
an image of P. Oxy 1786,
619
00:34:04,387 --> 00:34:08,287
with my translation of
the hymn. He had questions.
620
00:34:09,150 --> 00:34:11,358
Is that the whole of the song,
621
00:34:11,359 --> 00:34:13,015
or is that just
a piece that was found?
622
00:34:13,016 --> 00:34:15,397
It's all we've got,
that's all we've got,
623
00:34:15,398 --> 00:34:16,881
because, you know,
624
00:34:16,882 --> 00:34:19,332
I sent you a photo of the
manuscript, right?
625
00:34:19,333 --> 00:34:22,438
That is literally
all we've got.
626
00:34:22,439 --> 00:34:24,026
Yeah, so sadly,
there's no more.
627
00:34:24,027 --> 00:34:26,581
I mean, in terms
of songwriting,
628
00:34:27,237 --> 00:34:31,345
you guys have to
honor these words,
629
00:34:32,070 --> 00:34:35,625
but come up
with some other ones.
630
00:34:36,798 --> 00:34:40,284
We can't just slap
an English translation
631
00:34:40,285 --> 00:34:42,009
onto an ancient Greek tune.
632
00:34:42,010 --> 00:34:44,426
With all due respect to
the original composer,
633
00:34:44,427 --> 00:34:47,740
the melody is a little
weird to the modern ear.
634
00:34:48,051 --> 00:34:50,329
We have to find
a fresh way forward.
635
00:34:50,571 --> 00:34:53,090
John, is your vision that
636
00:34:53,091 --> 00:34:56,852
we try to stay right
there with that,
637
00:34:56,853 --> 00:34:59,682
so we're really singing like we
were 1800 years ago,
638
00:34:59,683 --> 00:35:00,890
I don't know.
639
00:35:00,891 --> 00:35:04,826
No way, no, I wanna
hear a song that's like,
640
00:35:05,931 --> 00:35:09,072
the kind of anthemic
song you both have written,
641
00:35:09,348 --> 00:35:12,937
that's got a pop sensibility
642
00:35:12,938 --> 00:35:16,321
with a hymnic gravitas.
643
00:35:16,528 --> 00:35:19,737
It's a balancing
act, a creative puzzle,
644
00:35:19,738 --> 00:35:23,362
and we need both these musical
brains to make it happen.
645
00:35:24,501 --> 00:35:26,330
I'm really open to
messing with whatever,
646
00:35:26,331 --> 00:35:27,952
like I'll send
you what I've got,
647
00:35:27,953 --> 00:35:29,160
and then we can start again.
648
00:35:29,161 --> 00:35:30,437
Yeah, send me what you got.
649
00:35:30,438 --> 00:35:31,749
I just think
there's anything in there.
650
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:34,096
I mean, I was
like looking around,
651
00:35:34,097 --> 00:35:36,029
I was kind of
writing some things today,
652
00:35:36,030 --> 00:35:38,687
as I was thinking about
this, just some thoughts down,
653
00:35:38,688 --> 00:35:40,896
so I look forward to like
maybe hearing what you have
654
00:35:40,897 --> 00:35:44,451
and see if it is kind of
matching what I was thinking.
655
00:35:44,452 --> 00:35:46,039
It'd be interesting.
656
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,353
I'm ready to go.
I'm ready to go.
657
00:35:48,594 --> 00:35:51,562
Ben, send that to me.
I'm ready, I'm ready to go.
658
00:35:51,563 --> 00:35:52,528
Cool.
659
00:35:55,222 --> 00:35:58,638
Ben and Chris have
their work cut out for them.
660
00:35:58,639 --> 00:36:02,125
We'll leave them to it.
We have other puzzles to solve.
661
00:36:05,749 --> 00:36:08,303
Musically,
the first hymn isn't what
662
00:36:08,304 --> 00:36:11,238
we've come to expect
from sacred music.
663
00:36:12,273 --> 00:36:15,689
Christian hymns like
this one have been sung
664
00:36:15,690 --> 00:36:18,313
for a mere 280 years.
665
00:36:18,314 --> 00:36:21,350
Do we know how far back
Christians were singing
666
00:36:21,351 --> 00:36:22,973
and writing songs?
667
00:36:23,181 --> 00:36:24,319
Well, that's probably one of
668
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,113
the easiest questions to answer
669
00:36:26,114 --> 00:36:28,461
because we actually have songs,
670
00:36:28,462 --> 00:36:30,497
to Jesus in the New Testament.
671
00:36:30,498 --> 00:36:34,294
We have Philippians chapter 2,
verses 6-11, which is a hymn.
672
00:36:34,295 --> 00:36:37,021
There's another one in
Colossians 1:15 - 20,
673
00:36:37,022 --> 00:36:38,747
another hymn to Jesus.
674
00:36:38,748 --> 00:36:41,405
And so the easiest way to
answer that question is,
675
00:36:41,406 --> 00:36:44,511
we know there's a lot of
hymns that the Christians sung
676
00:36:44,512 --> 00:36:46,203
because they're
hymns in the Bible,
677
00:36:46,204 --> 00:36:49,585
the Christian that we have as
a part of our ongoing record.
678
00:36:49,586 --> 00:36:51,449
Sadly, the musical notation
679
00:36:51,450 --> 00:36:53,279
didn't also get passed down
with the manuscript.
680
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,212
Exactly. Anytime you
have a poem
681
00:36:55,213 --> 00:36:56,765
or anything that's translated
682
00:36:56,766 --> 00:36:59,319
into English, some of
the rhythm and the things
683
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,840
that mark it out as
poetry and as music are lost.
684
00:37:02,841 --> 00:37:06,223
But it's pretty clear to
anyone who takes a close look
685
00:37:06,224 --> 00:37:09,122
at those passages and
maybe 1 Corinthians 13,
686
00:37:09,123 --> 00:37:11,780
it was poetic about love.
687
00:37:11,781 --> 00:37:14,092
You have this reality,
688
00:37:14,093 --> 00:37:16,647
the early Christians
were creating art
689
00:37:16,648 --> 00:37:18,442
related to the person of
Jesus in particular,
690
00:37:18,443 --> 00:37:20,513
and a praise and worship of him
691
00:37:20,514 --> 00:37:22,239
that speaks a lot about
his divinity.
692
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:24,137
The first
Christians were all Jews,
693
00:37:24,138 --> 00:37:26,829
and we know
Jews were monotheists.
694
00:37:26,830 --> 00:37:28,590
- They believed in just one God.
- Yes
695
00:37:28,591 --> 00:37:32,179
So my question is, were
the Christians departing
696
00:37:32,180 --> 00:37:35,321
from their Jewish
roots in saying that
697
00:37:35,322 --> 00:37:37,668
Jesus was somehow also God?
698
00:37:37,669 --> 00:37:39,808
Well, I don't think so.
One of the things that
699
00:37:39,809 --> 00:37:41,741
often you can
discover in a text
700
00:37:41,742 --> 00:37:44,020
are the things
that people fought about.
701
00:37:44,296 --> 00:37:46,573
And so you can tell
by reading the text of
702
00:37:46,574 --> 00:37:49,266
the New Testament, there's
a lot of fights about the law.
703
00:37:49,267 --> 00:37:51,165
Christians were
trying to figure out,
704
00:37:51,372 --> 00:37:53,615
should I keep the Torah or
should I not keep the Torah?
705
00:37:53,616 --> 00:37:57,481
There was a lot of fights
about the place of the Gentiles,
706
00:37:57,482 --> 00:37:59,241
how the Gentiles
and Jews lived together.
707
00:37:59,242 --> 00:38:02,106
There's a lot of fights, a lot
of discussion about ethics,
708
00:38:02,107 --> 00:38:03,556
how do we live
together as Christians?
709
00:38:03,557 --> 00:38:05,351
You know what you don't
see them fighting about
710
00:38:05,352 --> 00:38:07,870
a lot in the New Testament?
The divinity of Jesus.
711
00:38:07,871 --> 00:38:09,976
It actually seemed to be
something that, in other words,
712
00:38:09,977 --> 00:38:13,843
you never hear Paul having to
argue Jesus is actually divine.
713
00:38:14,188 --> 00:38:17,328
He usually assumes it for most
cases throughout his letters.
714
00:38:17,329 --> 00:38:19,468
You see the exact same
thing by the time you get
715
00:38:19,469 --> 00:38:21,470
to the Gospel of John,
they're not fighting about it.
716
00:38:21,471 --> 00:38:23,507
You see it narrated
in the synoptics.
717
00:38:23,508 --> 00:38:27,476
And so it seems to be the
case that pretty early on,
718
00:38:27,477 --> 00:38:30,099
the Christians
began to think about Jesus
719
00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:32,240
and the Spirit as divine.
720
00:38:32,758 --> 00:38:36,209
So it shouldn't
surprise us that the Christians
721
00:38:36,210 --> 00:38:40,420
behind P. Oxy 1786
would sing about God
722
00:38:40,421 --> 00:38:43,389
as the Father,
Son and Holy Spirit.
723
00:38:43,390 --> 00:38:47,082
It seems from the beginning,
the most important ideas
724
00:38:47,083 --> 00:38:51,017
weren't just proclaimed and
written down, they were sung.
725
00:38:52,744 --> 00:38:55,918
Our modern idea of the
Christian hymn has more to do
726
00:38:55,919 --> 00:39:00,371
with early modern Europe
than the ancient Roman Empire.
727
00:39:00,372 --> 00:39:04,271
During the 16th century,
the so-called Protestants,
728
00:39:04,272 --> 00:39:06,688
who got their name from
protesting what they saw
729
00:39:06,689 --> 00:39:11,107
as certain church excesses,
split from the Catholic church.
730
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:14,834
Whatever else we might
make of the tumultuous events
731
00:39:14,835 --> 00:39:16,629
of this Reformation period,
732
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:19,218
it resulted in
a lot of new songs.
733
00:39:19,874 --> 00:39:22,359
Some groups,
and I won't name names,
734
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,431
said we should only sing
the very words of scripture,
735
00:39:25,432 --> 00:39:28,330
particularly the Old
Testament book of Psalms,
736
00:39:28,331 --> 00:39:31,575
which was kind of the
ancient Israelite songbook.
737
00:39:31,576 --> 00:39:36,338
Anything else they said was
unbiblical and unacceptable.
738
00:39:36,339 --> 00:39:39,617
Other groups were a little
more relaxed and creative.
739
00:39:39,618 --> 00:39:42,137
They said, so long
as our words reflect
740
00:39:42,138 --> 00:39:43,897
the general truth
of the Bible,
741
00:39:43,898 --> 00:39:48,385
we're free to explore the
joys of melody and creativity.
742
00:39:48,386 --> 00:39:51,940
And the result was an
explosion of Christian hymns.
743
00:39:54,599 --> 00:39:57,428
Wherever the
Christian faith is gone,
744
00:39:57,429 --> 00:39:58,982
people are singing.
745
00:39:59,293 --> 00:40:00,983
There's an organization called
746
00:40:00,984 --> 00:40:03,608
Wycliffe Bible Translators
747
00:40:03,884 --> 00:40:06,506
that has emphasized
748
00:40:06,507 --> 00:40:08,025
in recent years,
749
00:40:08,026 --> 00:40:10,993
ethno-musicology,
and have found that
750
00:40:10,994 --> 00:40:14,341
when the Bible is
translated into a new language
751
00:40:14,342 --> 00:40:16,792
that perhaps it had not
even been written before,
752
00:40:16,793 --> 00:40:21,348
there is some interest, some
enthusiasm, some excitement.
753
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:24,697
But when that same
text, the Bible translated
754
00:40:24,698 --> 00:40:27,148
into a new language,
is set to music,
755
00:40:27,632 --> 00:40:31,428
there is much greater resonance
and much deeper appreciation.
756
00:40:31,429 --> 00:40:34,361
And that worldwide phenomenon
has been true in the West.
757
00:40:34,362 --> 00:40:37,951
So Western Christian
history is at the same time
758
00:40:37,952 --> 00:40:42,129
a history of music and
a history of hymnody.
759
00:40:42,750 --> 00:40:46,822
There's such a back catalog of
hymns through the centuries.
760
00:40:46,823 --> 00:40:48,135
Do we need any more?
761
00:40:48,446 --> 00:40:52,726
The answer is definitely yes,
with a couple of qualifications.
762
00:40:53,243 --> 00:40:56,556
Hymns are designed
to express truths,
763
00:40:56,557 --> 00:41:00,387
but also to ground
those truths in emotions,
764
00:41:00,388 --> 00:41:02,286
to make them memorable.
765
00:41:02,287 --> 00:41:05,392
If there are not
new hymns being written
766
00:41:05,393 --> 00:41:10,088
that reflect the needs,
the desires, the outlook,
767
00:41:10,537 --> 00:41:12,745
the standpoint of the
present, then the churches
768
00:41:12,746 --> 00:41:15,368
will be antiquarian
and will have nothing
769
00:41:15,369 --> 00:41:18,165
to say to
the world around them.
770
00:41:20,443 --> 00:41:23,032
Chris and Ben
have been hard at work
771
00:41:23,308 --> 00:41:25,551
creating a new first hymn
772
00:41:25,552 --> 00:41:27,692
from the building
blocks of the original.
773
00:41:29,901 --> 00:41:31,902
From these small beginnings,
774
00:41:31,903 --> 00:41:35,595
Chris and Ben went into
their own creative wonderland.
775
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,365
Meanwhile, we've
come to Chicago
776
00:41:47,366 --> 00:41:50,023
to talk to someone
I've admired ever since
777
00:41:50,024 --> 00:41:53,511
I first came across
P. Oxy 1786.
778
00:41:54,753 --> 00:41:58,722
The first hymn
uses a kind of music
779
00:41:58,723 --> 00:42:02,104
that is very
familiar to Westerners.
780
00:42:02,105 --> 00:42:03,934
It's diatonic music.
781
00:42:03,935 --> 00:42:06,971
And all that means is it's
made out of the whole steps
782
00:42:06,972 --> 00:42:09,940
and the half steps
that our music is made of.
783
00:42:09,941 --> 00:42:13,357
When you go to a piano, if
you play keys on the piano
784
00:42:13,358 --> 00:42:16,740
in a row, you're playing
whole steps and half steps.
785
00:42:16,741 --> 00:42:20,020
And our scales are made out of
combinations of those.
786
00:42:20,538 --> 00:42:23,988
Charles Cosgrove is a
kind of triple threat
787
00:42:23,989 --> 00:42:26,025
of classical education,
788
00:42:26,026 --> 00:42:29,754
expert linguist,
historian, and musician.
789
00:42:30,548 --> 00:42:36,381
And he literally wrote
the book on P. Oxy 1786.
790
00:42:37,175 --> 00:42:39,383
Perhaps strangely
to the modern ear,
791
00:42:39,384 --> 00:42:41,592
the original
lyrics of the first hymn
792
00:42:41,593 --> 00:42:45,045
tell all creation
to be silent.
793
00:42:46,322 --> 00:42:50,739
The beginning of this is
the Greek cultic concern
794
00:42:50,740 --> 00:42:54,709
that when a cultic
act was being performed,
795
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:58,678
someone might say an
inauspicious word
796
00:42:58,679 --> 00:43:00,507
that offended the god.
797
00:43:00,508 --> 00:43:03,200
And so there would
be a call to silence
798
00:43:03,201 --> 00:43:04,823
or to watch your tongue.
799
00:43:05,168 --> 00:43:08,481
And then that call to
silence would start the ritual.
800
00:43:08,482 --> 00:43:11,553
So silence falls, and then
the ritual could begin
801
00:43:11,554 --> 00:43:14,798
with prayers and maybe
a hymn and so forth.
802
00:43:14,799 --> 00:43:18,284
And in the hymns,
it often announces
803
00:43:18,285 --> 00:43:20,804
that the god is
approaching the temple.
804
00:43:20,805 --> 00:43:23,530
And so "Fall Silent
as a God Approaches"
805
00:43:23,531 --> 00:43:27,225
and then the boys
choir will sing the god.
806
00:43:27,777 --> 00:43:30,710
It seems our ancient
Christian songwriter
807
00:43:30,711 --> 00:43:33,955
knew his Greco-Roman
context well.
808
00:43:33,956 --> 00:43:37,337
Was he trying to make his pagan
contemporaries comfortable
809
00:43:37,338 --> 00:43:40,169
before offering his
controversial message?
810
00:43:40,756 --> 00:43:44,621
My favorite
line is the last one,
811
00:43:44,622 --> 00:43:48,797
that God is "the only
giver of all good gifts".
812
00:43:48,798 --> 00:43:53,215
Am I right
that Zeus was actually
813
00:43:53,216 --> 00:43:55,701
said to be the
giver of good gifts?
814
00:43:55,702 --> 00:43:58,427
But here the author of
this song is saying that
815
00:43:58,428 --> 00:44:00,533
God is the only
giver of all good gifts.
816
00:44:00,534 --> 00:44:02,259
So what is
the songwriter doing?
817
00:44:02,260 --> 00:44:04,157
Is this just copying?
818
00:44:04,158 --> 00:44:05,262
Is he being critical?
819
00:44:05,263 --> 00:44:07,092
Is he evangelizing or what?
820
00:44:08,024 --> 00:44:11,164
Yes, well, the hymnwriter
is doing two things.
821
00:44:11,165 --> 00:44:15,617
One is to speak
in a neoclassical way
822
00:44:15,618 --> 00:44:18,447
by taking up the language
of a venerable tradition
823
00:44:18,448 --> 00:44:22,349
and dignifying the hymn
and God with this language.
824
00:44:22,936 --> 00:44:26,490
At the same time,
the hymnwriter is asserting
825
00:44:26,491 --> 00:44:30,667
that Christian idea
that only one God
826
00:44:30,668 --> 00:44:34,292
gives all the good things,
not many gods.
827
00:44:38,917 --> 00:44:41,781
Ben and Chris
have been hard at work,
828
00:44:41,782 --> 00:44:45,336
and the first hymn project
has made its way to Nashville.
829
00:44:53,483 --> 00:44:57,003
Nashville is the
mecca of Christian music
830
00:44:57,004 --> 00:44:58,453
to mix my religions.
831
00:44:58,454 --> 00:45:00,800
It's home to
a baffling number of
832
00:45:00,801 --> 00:45:02,837
Christian music
publishing houses,
833
00:45:02,838 --> 00:45:05,703
record labels and
production companies.
834
00:45:06,773 --> 00:45:09,533
This is where big names in
the Christian music industry,
835
00:45:09,534 --> 00:45:12,674
like Amy Grant, Michael
W Smith, got their break.
836
00:45:12,675 --> 00:45:14,987
But it's also the home
of more recent artists
837
00:45:14,988 --> 00:45:17,472
like Lauren Daigle
and Anne Wilson.
838
00:45:17,473 --> 00:45:20,889
And Nashville is the
home of the Dove Awards.
839
00:45:20,890 --> 00:45:22,408
They're not quite
the Grammys,
840
00:45:22,409 --> 00:45:24,859
but in the US,
a very big deal.
841
00:45:24,860 --> 00:45:27,309
So this feels like
the perfect place to
842
00:45:27,310 --> 00:45:30,382
try and revive P. Oxy 1786.
843
00:45:32,039 --> 00:45:34,765
Chris Tomlin
invited us to The Barn,
844
00:45:34,766 --> 00:45:38,390
his writing and rehearsal
space just outside Nashville.
845
00:45:38,908 --> 00:45:42,462
The plan was to lock these
guys in a room for a few days
846
00:45:42,463 --> 00:45:45,362
and let them hash
out their best ideas
847
00:45:45,363 --> 00:45:47,192
for the new first hymn.
848
00:45:47,399 --> 00:45:50,022
- John!
- I like this. Can I have one?
849
00:45:50,023 --> 00:45:51,748
Can I have one?
- You can.
850
00:45:51,749 --> 00:45:53,059
Hey, buddy.
851
00:45:53,060 --> 00:45:55,648
Wow, nice to
meet you in the flesh.
852
00:45:55,649 --> 00:45:58,893
- I know. Good to see you.
- And my friend. Wow.
853
00:45:58,894 --> 00:46:00,240
Good to see you.
854
00:46:01,068 --> 00:46:02,448
So this is happening?
855
00:46:02,449 --> 00:46:03,829
- Yeah, it's happening.
- It's on.
856
00:46:03,830 --> 00:46:04,795
Right.
857
00:46:04,796 --> 00:46:06,590
Some pleasantries,
858
00:46:06,591 --> 00:46:09,179
admiring their awesome
writing space,
859
00:46:09,180 --> 00:46:11,182
and then it's
down to business.
860
00:46:12,493 --> 00:46:14,081
How do you feel it's been going?
861
00:46:14,564 --> 00:46:15,772
You should probably ask Chris.
862
00:46:15,773 --> 00:46:17,359
I feel like
it's been going well,
863
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,085
but Chris might be
seething in the background.
864
00:46:19,086 --> 00:46:23,296
How did I get into this?
865
00:46:23,297 --> 00:46:26,921
No, absolutely. It's
been really beautiful.
866
00:46:26,922 --> 00:46:28,508
I love working with Ben.
867
00:46:28,509 --> 00:46:30,648
We've worked a little bit
together over the years.
868
00:46:30,649 --> 00:46:33,030
And so, you know,
going back and forth
869
00:46:33,031 --> 00:46:37,000
through from Australia to
Tennessee, it's been wonderful.
870
00:46:37,001 --> 00:46:40,658
I really enjoyed it because
we'll just how about this idea
871
00:46:40,659 --> 00:46:42,971
and send it and
then I'll wait for him to
872
00:46:42,972 --> 00:46:44,559
wake up eight hours later.
873
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,078
And then by
the time I'm asleep,
874
00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:47,700
I wake up and
there's something else,
875
00:46:47,701 --> 00:46:49,288
you know, because
the time changes.
876
00:46:49,289 --> 00:46:50,876
And so it's just been beautiful.
877
00:46:50,877 --> 00:46:53,568
OK. And then it gives it's
been an interesting process
878
00:46:53,569 --> 00:46:55,363
because it just kind of
gives me the day
879
00:46:55,364 --> 00:46:56,640
to think through it and then.
880
00:46:56,641 --> 00:46:58,400
And to delete
anything you don't like.
881
00:46:58,401 --> 00:47:00,299
I shouldn't have said that.
- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
882
00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:02,853
And then I and
then I send back to him
883
00:47:02,854 --> 00:47:08,480
and just us just talking about
how do we really capture this
884
00:47:08,964 --> 00:47:11,103
in the best way we can.
885
00:47:11,104 --> 00:47:13,519
These beautiful, beautiful
words and these ancient words.
886
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,142
And it's just such a
I feel such responsibility too.
887
00:47:16,143 --> 00:47:17,592
- Yeah
- Massive.
888
00:47:17,593 --> 00:47:20,733
I mean, this there's this
is not just another lyric.
889
00:47:20,734 --> 00:47:22,114
This is so special.
890
00:47:22,115 --> 00:47:24,426
And so I've
really, really loved it.
891
00:47:24,427 --> 00:47:28,223
What's the difficulty
involved?
892
00:47:28,224 --> 00:47:30,743
Like, what have
you found hard about it?
893
00:47:30,744 --> 00:47:33,297
The only thing
I've found hard is
894
00:47:33,298 --> 00:47:35,334
I just second guess myself.
895
00:47:35,335 --> 00:47:37,267
Is this good enough?
Is this good enough?
896
00:47:37,268 --> 00:47:38,924
Yeah, that's a
huge part of it.
897
00:47:38,925 --> 00:47:40,373
You know, because it's your.
898
00:47:40,374 --> 00:47:42,375
But is that the same
with every song you write?
899
00:47:42,376 --> 00:47:44,274
No, but this feels
different because it's
900
00:47:44,275 --> 00:47:46,690
like you're just you're holding
something that's
901
00:47:46,691 --> 00:47:47,725
it's already been.
902
00:47:47,726 --> 00:47:48,865
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
903
00:47:48,866 --> 00:47:50,590
It's already been sung.
It's already been.
904
00:47:50,591 --> 00:47:53,179
And you're like,
I know you want to.
905
00:47:53,180 --> 00:47:54,836
But obviously
you want to bring it into
906
00:47:54,837 --> 00:47:58,288
this this time period and this
this generation.
907
00:47:58,289 --> 00:48:01,705
And so you're like, am I do
are we doing are we
908
00:48:01,706 --> 00:48:05,364
holding this the right way?
- And the responsibility to
909
00:48:05,365 --> 00:48:07,538
try to capture what it was that
910
00:48:07,539 --> 00:48:11,094
unified the church
way back then
911
00:48:11,095 --> 00:48:13,372
and to be able to
take those elements,
912
00:48:13,373 --> 00:48:14,891
but try to modernize them
913
00:48:14,892 --> 00:48:17,617
and thinking about, well,
what would a chorus be like?
914
00:48:17,618 --> 00:48:21,725
You know, would that ancient
hymn have even had a chorus?.
915
00:48:21,726 --> 00:48:24,417
But I think in the modern
version of the hymn, it would.
916
00:48:24,418 --> 00:48:27,524
So trying to work out where to
put emphasis in the song.
917
00:48:27,525 --> 00:48:29,146
- Yes
- All of that
918
00:48:29,147 --> 00:48:30,561
is just kind of like it -
919
00:48:30,562 --> 00:48:33,047
it's the challenge of taking
something that was
920
00:48:33,048 --> 00:48:35,326
and making it
something that is now.
921
00:48:35,602 --> 00:48:37,361
But I couldn't think
of anybody I prefer to
922
00:48:37,362 --> 00:48:38,880
be doing this with than Chris.
923
00:48:38,881 --> 00:48:41,538
And when you got involved, just
the enthusiasm that just
924
00:48:41,539 --> 00:48:44,368
got breathed into this
was just fantastic.
925
00:48:44,369 --> 00:48:46,025
And so I was blown away.
926
00:48:46,026 --> 00:48:48,407
Chris is like firing messages.
I'm trying to keep up
927
00:48:48,408 --> 00:48:50,824
and like fire back.
928
00:48:51,031 --> 00:48:52,859
It's like it was
a really sweet kind of
929
00:48:52,860 --> 00:48:53,999
part of the process.
930
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,517
To kind of wake
up and find like,
931
00:48:55,518 --> 00:48:57,588
you know, three or four
different kind of verses
932
00:48:57,589 --> 00:49:00,695
and just keep that
creativity going on the song.
933
00:49:00,696 --> 00:49:02,835
I think I think
it's been really special.
934
00:49:02,836 --> 00:49:05,389
Now, you need to
understand that I had
935
00:49:05,390 --> 00:49:08,910
no idea just how
much these guys had been
936
00:49:08,911 --> 00:49:10,808
working together online.
937
00:49:10,809 --> 00:49:14,295
So nothing prepared
me for what came next.
938
00:49:14,296 --> 00:49:17,505
The question is,
how long 'till you think
939
00:49:17,506 --> 00:49:19,232
you've got a full song?
940
00:49:19,922 --> 00:49:21,405
- OK
- A complete song.
941
00:49:21,406 --> 00:49:23,821
So we got we got a little
bit of a surprise for you.
942
00:49:23,822 --> 00:49:25,754
And that is we think
we finished the song.
943
00:49:25,755 --> 00:49:26,790
What?!
944
00:49:26,791 --> 00:49:29,172
Yeah, it
happened so fast.
945
00:49:29,173 --> 00:49:30,933
How did that happen?
946
00:49:31,865 --> 00:49:34,625
I don't know. I mean, I've
written lots of songs,
947
00:49:34,626 --> 00:49:36,869
Ben's written
lots of songs and rarely
948
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:38,767
do they just...
949
00:49:38,768 --> 00:49:42,807
I think it was the lyric
was so much there that
950
00:49:43,532 --> 00:49:45,705
just several times
back and forth,
951
00:49:45,706 --> 00:49:47,535
like this feels
really, really special.
952
00:49:47,536 --> 00:49:49,123
So we'd love to
play it for you.
953
00:49:49,124 --> 00:49:49,986
Oh, man.
954
00:49:49,987 --> 00:49:51,194
- Yeah.
- OK.
955
00:49:51,195 --> 00:49:53,438
Now I've got shivers.
956
00:49:55,302 --> 00:49:59,168
♪ Let all be silent ♪
957
00:50:00,031 --> 00:50:02,999
♪ The shining stars not sound ♪
958
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,348
♪ The rushing rivers still ♪
959
00:50:07,211 --> 00:50:10,385
♪ Let the mountains bow down ♪
960
00:50:10,386 --> 00:50:13,631
♪ In awe and wonder ♪
961
00:50:15,115 --> 00:50:17,669
♪ In reverence we come ♪
962
00:50:17,911 --> 00:50:21,811
♪ Who is worthy of all
worship? ♪
963
00:50:22,157 --> 00:50:26,092
♪ Who is seated on the throne? ♪
964
00:50:26,747 --> 00:50:32,201
♪ All powers cry out
in answer ♪
965
00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:40,001
♪ All glory and praise forever ♪
966
00:50:40,002 --> 00:50:48,630
♪ To our God, the Father,
Son and Holy Spirit ♪
967
00:50:48,631 --> 00:50:49,805
♪ Amen ♪
968
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:54,120
♪ We sing, Amen ♪
969
00:50:55,328 --> 00:50:58,055
♪ Let all be silent ♪
970
00:51:01,161 --> 00:51:04,094
I was stunned.
971
00:51:04,095 --> 00:51:07,546
Not just because they
secretly finished the song,
972
00:51:07,547 --> 00:51:10,307
but because even in
its raw form,
973
00:51:10,308 --> 00:51:12,344
I could hear how masterfully
974
00:51:12,345 --> 00:51:14,587
they'd revived the message
975
00:51:14,588 --> 00:51:17,626
and the mood of the first hymn.
976
00:51:22,976 --> 00:51:26,599
Wow, that is a gorgeous tune.
977
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,500
And the lyrics are virtually
the definition of classic.
978
00:51:30,501 --> 00:51:32,985
But what makes
a good worship song?
979
00:51:32,986 --> 00:51:35,436
A song designed to be
sung by millions of people
980
00:51:35,437 --> 00:51:37,645
around the world in church?
981
00:51:37,646 --> 00:51:41,407
I suppose it has to be
singable by regular humans.
982
00:51:41,408 --> 00:51:44,376
And it also has to capture
the head and the heart.
983
00:51:44,377 --> 00:51:46,103
But what would I know?
984
00:51:47,034 --> 00:51:49,484
I wanted to find
out more about how this
985
00:51:49,485 --> 00:51:53,903
mysterious world of contemporary
Christian music works.
986
00:51:54,318 --> 00:51:57,286
A great worship song
is one that
987
00:51:57,631 --> 00:52:00,426
articulates the heart
of every worshipper
988
00:52:00,427 --> 00:52:02,705
and directs their
attention to God.
989
00:52:02,912 --> 00:52:06,363
In 2024, Christian
contemporary music
990
00:52:06,364 --> 00:52:09,815
was the fourth fastest
growing genre in the world,
991
00:52:09,816 --> 00:52:13,370
up 60 percent over
the last five years.
992
00:52:13,371 --> 00:52:17,443
Labels like
Capital CMG, Centricity,
993
00:52:17,444 --> 00:52:19,549
Hillsong Worship and Integrity
994
00:52:19,550 --> 00:52:22,345
preside over
a market that now accounts
995
00:52:22,346 --> 00:52:25,520
for more internet
streams than jazz
996
00:52:25,521 --> 00:52:27,972
and classical music combined.
997
00:52:28,214 --> 00:52:29,938
The thing about
a song is that,
998
00:52:29,939 --> 00:52:32,941
especially one you enter into,
it's one that you're
999
00:52:32,942 --> 00:52:35,323
giving yourself over to and
you're participating in
1000
00:52:35,324 --> 00:52:36,738
the song and
what the song says.
1001
00:52:36,739 --> 00:52:40,017
And so the context
of the song and in the
1002
00:52:40,018 --> 00:52:41,605
direction that it
takes your heart
1003
00:52:41,606 --> 00:52:43,469
and your mind is really
important.
1004
00:52:43,470 --> 00:52:45,851
And so to have
an accurate theology,
1005
00:52:45,852 --> 00:52:49,234
a good understanding of
who God is, of the work of
1006
00:52:49,235 --> 00:52:51,443
Jesus on the cross,
all of these things,
1007
00:52:51,444 --> 00:52:53,617
they actually
actually do matter.
1008
00:52:53,618 --> 00:52:56,206
Do you think
Christian music has anything
1009
00:52:56,207 --> 00:52:59,244
to offer people who don't know
what to make of Christianity?
1010
00:52:59,245 --> 00:53:01,418
To the wider world?
- It certainly should.
1011
00:53:01,419 --> 00:53:04,766
But part of the issue,
the historic issue with
1012
00:53:04,767 --> 00:53:09,564
why it doesn't often is that
it isn't always believable.
1013
00:53:09,565 --> 00:53:14,328
We only tend to write in like
superlative and hyperbole
1014
00:53:14,329 --> 00:53:16,882
about God answering all of my
1015
00:53:16,883 --> 00:53:19,679
you know, answering all my
prayer, meeting all my needs.
1016
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,888
And it's and that's a
really foreign concept
1017
00:53:22,889 --> 00:53:25,304
to somebody who
isn't a person of faith
1018
00:53:25,305 --> 00:53:27,238
or raised within the church.
1019
00:53:29,136 --> 00:53:33,001
The first hymn was
lost to the world for centuries
1020
00:53:33,002 --> 00:53:35,694
and rediscovered
100 years ago.
1021
00:53:35,695 --> 00:53:38,800
Experts have
studied its musical and
1022
00:53:38,801 --> 00:53:41,355
historical
significance for decades.
1023
00:53:41,356 --> 00:53:43,460
For the last
two years, we've been
1024
00:53:43,461 --> 00:53:46,636
working to give
it back to the world.
1025
00:53:46,637 --> 00:53:49,155
I don't know what
the original composer
1026
00:53:49,156 --> 00:53:51,434
would think of what
we're doing,
1027
00:53:51,435 --> 00:53:56,440
but it's time to lay this thing
down again for posterity.
1028
00:53:58,649 --> 00:54:03,342
Dark Horse Studios, nestled in
the countryside outside
1029
00:54:03,343 --> 00:54:05,828
beautiful Franklin, Tennessee.
1030
00:54:06,277 --> 00:54:09,003
This is where
songs by Hunter Hayes,
1031
00:54:09,004 --> 00:54:12,214
Keith Urban and
Taylor Swift were recorded.
1032
00:54:12,663 --> 00:54:15,216
Now it's the first hymn's turn.
1033
00:54:15,217 --> 00:54:18,255
Hey! It's been a long time.
1034
00:54:19,635 --> 00:54:22,948
And this is where
we meet Jonathan Smith,
1035
00:54:22,949 --> 00:54:25,847
the two time Grammy
multi Dove Award winning
1036
00:54:25,848 --> 00:54:28,194
songwriter and producer.
1037
00:54:28,195 --> 00:54:30,093
He'll be shepherding
us through this
1038
00:54:30,094 --> 00:54:33,545
crucial stage of
reviving the first hymn.
1039
00:54:33,546 --> 00:54:35,823
And then we don't
have to be bound by that.
1040
00:54:35,824 --> 00:54:37,135
Yeah.
1041
00:54:41,070 --> 00:54:43,521
Here. We. Go.
1042
00:54:44,246 --> 00:54:48,112
♪ To the only
giver of all good gifts ♪
1043
00:54:48,561 --> 00:54:50,872
♪ Amen ♪
1044
00:54:50,873 --> 00:54:55,221
♪ To the only one
who forgives our sins ♪
1045
00:54:55,222 --> 00:54:57,501
♪ Amen ♪
1046
00:54:57,811 --> 00:55:01,400
♪ To the only God
to the risen king ♪
1047
00:55:01,401 --> 00:55:05,266
♪ To the one
who died and rose again ♪
1048
00:55:05,267 --> 00:55:12,136
♪ Amen.
We sing Amen ♪
1049
00:55:12,999 --> 00:55:18,107
♪ All powers cry out in answer ♪
1050
00:55:19,592 --> 00:55:25,735
♪ All glory and praise forever ♪
1051
00:55:25,736 --> 00:55:27,737
♪ To our God ♪
1052
00:55:27,738 --> 00:55:32,949
♪ The Father, Son and
Holy Spirit ♪
1053
00:55:32,950 --> 00:55:37,610
♪ Amen, we sing Amen ♪
1054
00:55:38,335 --> 00:55:40,474
So that's it.
Job done.
1055
00:55:40,475 --> 00:55:43,443
Save file, send to Spotify.
1056
00:55:43,685 --> 00:55:44,857
Not really.
1057
00:55:44,858 --> 00:55:47,170
The first hymn
project was never about
1058
00:55:47,171 --> 00:55:49,724
just resurrecting
an ancient song.
1059
00:55:49,725 --> 00:55:52,209
It's about giving
that song back to
1060
00:55:52,210 --> 00:55:55,040
a new generation of
believers and doubters.
1061
00:55:55,041 --> 00:55:57,215
And for that,
we need a lot more help.
1062
00:55:58,458 --> 00:56:03,013
Greek speaking Egyptians first
composed and sang this tribute
1063
00:56:03,014 --> 00:56:05,982
to the only giver of all
good gifts.
1064
00:56:05,983 --> 00:56:08,329
So it only seems right to ask
1065
00:56:08,330 --> 00:56:11,056
a descendant of these ancient
people to help us put the
1066
00:56:11,057 --> 00:56:13,162
finishing touches on the hymn.
1067
00:56:14,267 --> 00:56:17,373
This is Music City Walk of Fame.
1068
00:56:17,374 --> 00:56:19,375
It's pretty
cool, but it's not where
1069
00:56:19,376 --> 00:56:22,032
we're going to find
what I'm looking for.
1070
00:56:22,033 --> 00:56:23,793
From the beginning
of this project,
1071
00:56:23,794 --> 00:56:26,899
I had the crazy idea of
bringing the song full
1072
00:56:26,900 --> 00:56:30,662
circle by including
an Egyptian singer,
1073
00:56:30,663 --> 00:56:33,734
someone who can capture
the feel of the place
1074
00:56:33,735 --> 00:56:36,115
where this hymn
was first sung
1075
00:56:36,116 --> 00:56:37,945
and then lost
and then found again.
1076
00:56:37,946 --> 00:56:39,222
And you know what?
1077
00:56:39,223 --> 00:56:41,708
Nashville has
given us that as well.
1078
00:56:43,814 --> 00:56:46,678
The Coptic Orthodox Church
in America is
1079
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:49,612
a branch of one of
the oldest continuously
1080
00:56:49,613 --> 00:56:52,200
existing churches in the world.
1081
00:56:52,201 --> 00:56:54,479
The first Copts,
as they're called,
1082
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,482
arrived in the US in the 1940s.
1083
00:56:57,483 --> 00:56:59,173
They were foreign
students who brought
1084
00:56:59,174 --> 00:57:01,417
their ancient ways with them.
1085
00:57:01,418 --> 00:57:04,523
Today, there are
several hundred churches here
1086
00:57:04,524 --> 00:57:08,251
and all of them are committed
to preserving their heritage,
1087
00:57:08,252 --> 00:57:09,840
including their music.
1088
00:57:12,256 --> 00:57:16,086
Katy Fayck Eskander
is a native Egyptian
1089
00:57:16,087 --> 00:57:17,674
and the choir director
1090
00:57:17,675 --> 00:57:20,781
at St Mary's Coptic Church
in Nashville.
1091
00:57:20,782 --> 00:57:24,923
She's recorded five
studio albums and 25 singles.
1092
00:57:24,924 --> 00:57:29,031
And every week she helps keep
alive her ancient tradition.
1093
00:57:59,717 --> 00:58:02,236
- Hey, I'm John.
- Nice to meet you.
1094
00:58:02,237 --> 00:58:03,962
We are thrilled
to have you on board.
1095
00:58:03,963 --> 00:58:05,653
Thank you so much.
1096
00:58:05,654 --> 00:58:08,276
We've come to speak
with Katy on the morning of her
1097
00:58:08,277 --> 00:58:10,416
recording session for
the new first hymn.
1098
00:58:10,417 --> 00:58:12,903
I'm nervous.
I don't know how she's feeling.
1099
00:58:13,144 --> 00:58:15,076
What drew you to
sing worship songs,
1100
00:58:15,077 --> 00:58:16,769
not just performance music?
1101
00:58:17,252 --> 00:58:20,289
The first part was the
genetic part from my mom.
1102
00:58:20,704 --> 00:58:21,877
She has amazing voice.
1103
00:58:22,464 --> 00:58:25,709
And the second part was my dad.
1104
00:58:27,089 --> 00:58:31,507
When I was three years old,
he kept teaching me Coptic music
1105
00:58:31,508 --> 00:58:34,165
and Coptic songs
and recorded it.
1106
00:58:34,441 --> 00:58:37,892
Then he let me
listen to my voice.
1107
00:58:37,893 --> 00:58:41,447
"This is your voice. You have a
good voice. Keep doing it".
1108
00:58:41,448 --> 00:58:44,830
The magic word here
is the relationship
1109
00:58:44,831 --> 00:58:46,280
between you and God.
1110
00:58:46,281 --> 00:58:48,179
I feel like
1111
00:58:49,491 --> 00:58:52,907
this is a gift from God.
My voice is a gift from God.
1112
00:58:52,908 --> 00:58:58,948
And the only person
deserves it is Him.
1113
00:58:58,949 --> 00:59:03,124
So if I like to
enjoy that, the amazing gift,
1114
00:59:03,125 --> 00:59:04,816
I would enjoy it with him.
1115
00:59:04,817 --> 00:59:08,648
So I feel like
I'm praying in my way.
1116
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,590
- Jonathan, how are you?
- I'm good. How's Australia?
1117
00:59:20,591 --> 00:59:22,973
It's beautiful.
It's always beautiful.
1118
00:59:23,387 --> 00:59:25,595
Chris and Ben have
already given Jonathan
1119
00:59:25,596 --> 00:59:29,254
a good idea of what they hope
Katy can bring to the song.
1120
00:59:29,255 --> 00:59:31,290
So what are you thinking?
1121
00:59:31,291 --> 00:59:32,844
I know we've
talked about maybe having
1122
00:59:32,845 --> 00:59:35,156
that sort of at
the top of the song.
1123
00:59:35,157 --> 00:59:38,125
Like, how are you hearing it?
1124
00:59:38,126 --> 00:59:42,301
I think starting the song
with that motif,
1125
00:59:42,302 --> 00:59:45,270
with her singing it
is what's going to
1126
00:59:45,271 --> 00:59:48,860
really set the tone that
this song isn't
1127
00:59:48,861 --> 00:59:51,725
like any normal song, right?
1128
00:59:51,726 --> 00:59:54,175
Like it's not,
it's going to instantly
1129
00:59:54,176 --> 00:59:57,421
sort of give it an ancient feel.
1130
00:59:57,973 --> 01:00:02,149
Western music usually
operates with just 12 notes.
1131
01:00:02,150 --> 01:00:06,361
C, C sharp, D,
D sharp, E, F and so on.
1132
01:00:06,775 --> 01:00:10,191
Middle Eastern music,
Arabic, Coptic and so on,
1133
01:00:10,192 --> 01:00:13,850
has 24 notes made up of
microtones.
1134
01:00:13,851 --> 01:00:16,094
Very subtle pitches between the
1135
01:00:16,095 --> 01:00:17,613
traditional Western notes.
1136
01:00:17,614 --> 01:00:22,619
The result is a melodic
wonderland rich in emotion.
1137
01:00:28,279 --> 01:00:30,349
It doesn't take long before Katy
1138
01:00:30,350 --> 01:00:34,871
transports us to another
time and another place
1139
01:00:34,872 --> 01:00:37,495
to centuries ago in Egypt.
1140
01:00:38,876 --> 01:00:41,188
- Wow.
- Yes, fantastic.
1141
01:00:41,189 --> 01:00:44,329
That "all powers
cry out in answer."
1142
01:00:44,330 --> 01:00:47,919
The line you do
there is like, wow.
1143
01:01:00,104 --> 01:01:02,554
♪ And all be silent ♪
1144
01:01:02,555 --> 01:01:05,591
Back when music
was pretty much my life,
1145
01:01:05,592 --> 01:01:09,423
I loved and hated
the recording studio.
1146
01:01:09,424 --> 01:01:11,839
I mean, when you play live,
little mistakes,
1147
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:13,634
they don't matter so much.
1148
01:01:13,635 --> 01:01:17,569
A wrongly placed finger here,
a slightly off note there,
1149
01:01:17,570 --> 01:01:21,193
and you can just call it jazz
and hardly anyone notices.
1150
01:01:21,194 --> 01:01:23,886
But here it's different.
1151
01:01:23,887 --> 01:01:26,233
In the studio, your performance
1152
01:01:26,234 --> 01:01:28,304
over and over and over
1153
01:01:28,305 --> 01:01:31,341
eventually has to be perfect.
1154
01:01:31,342 --> 01:01:33,274
All the while
trying to maintain the
1155
01:01:33,275 --> 01:01:35,829
sense of creative energy.
1156
01:01:35,830 --> 01:01:38,798
And that's why
you need a good producer.
1157
01:01:42,112 --> 01:01:43,871
I think of producers a bit like
1158
01:01:43,872 --> 01:01:47,323
Michelangelo, you know,
technically precise
1159
01:01:47,324 --> 01:01:50,602
and artistically brilliant,
and they can often
1160
01:01:50,603 --> 01:01:53,743
see the finished product
from the beginning.
1161
01:01:53,744 --> 01:01:56,366
I mean, a good
producer can hear what
1162
01:01:56,367 --> 01:01:58,748
a song really
wants to sound like
1163
01:01:58,749 --> 01:02:01,545
even better than
the original composers.
1164
01:02:01,856 --> 01:02:03,891
I know what moves my spirit
1165
01:02:03,892 --> 01:02:05,168
and what moves me.
1166
01:02:05,169 --> 01:02:08,793
And that's really the only
1167
01:02:08,794 --> 01:02:12,142
compass that I know to have.
1168
01:02:13,522 --> 01:02:16,524
And so I do think
as you as you work
1169
01:02:16,525 --> 01:02:18,975
and as you get experience,
your instincts get honed in
1170
01:02:18,976 --> 01:02:21,322
and you know what
you tend to love.
1171
01:02:21,323 --> 01:02:22,599
You trust that
there's going to be
1172
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:24,810
other people out there
that love it.
1173
01:02:25,189 --> 01:02:27,156
Producers know exactly
1174
01:02:27,157 --> 01:02:29,745
what each instrument can
bring to a piece
1175
01:02:29,746 --> 01:02:33,300
and how to bring out the
best in every musician.
1176
01:02:33,301 --> 01:02:37,166
They guide the arrangement
and the performance.
1177
01:02:37,167 --> 01:02:40,169
And once it's all
recorded, they select,
1178
01:02:40,170 --> 01:02:42,033
arrange and layer the
1179
01:02:42,034 --> 01:02:45,450
dozens and dozens of
individual tracks
1180
01:02:45,451 --> 01:02:48,074
to fashion a coherent whole.
1181
01:02:52,285 --> 01:02:54,528
What did you put in
there to make that happen?
1182
01:02:54,529 --> 01:02:58,775
So I added that same
guitar part right here.
1183
01:03:01,847 --> 01:03:04,158
With some effects on it
like these right here.
1184
01:03:04,159 --> 01:03:10,200
Some pretty wide stereo
reverbs and things like that.
1185
01:03:11,235 --> 01:03:13,340
And so that was that was
what I started with
1186
01:03:13,341 --> 01:03:16,274
and then even added
some what I would call
1187
01:03:16,275 --> 01:03:20,105
kind of a world
sounds and rhythms
1188
01:03:20,106 --> 01:03:25,007
like this right here
to go along with it.
1189
01:03:25,008 --> 01:03:27,941
Again, just to put,
I want those
1190
01:03:27,942 --> 01:03:31,393
musicians first time they
hear it to be OK, this is not,
1191
01:03:32,394 --> 01:03:34,223
this song did not
come out of Nashville.
1192
01:03:35,742 --> 01:03:39,642
I want them to know
this is a an ancient thing.
1193
01:03:39,643 --> 01:03:44,544
And so even these banging
on a banjo and guitar.
1194
01:03:45,476 --> 01:03:47,926
- Huh, Yeah
- Yeah.
1195
01:03:47,927 --> 01:03:51,517
- Oh, that's gorgeous.
- Yeah. And so you play this.
1196
01:03:52,138 --> 01:03:53,345
And then what they're
1197
01:03:53,346 --> 01:03:54,519
So they're thinking world
music?
1198
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:55,865
- Exactly.
- Yeah.
1199
01:03:55,866 --> 01:03:57,694
And you know what
I'm telling them is, hey,
1200
01:03:57,695 --> 01:04:00,145
I want you to still do the
thing that you do and do well,
1201
01:04:00,146 --> 01:04:03,839
but I want you to feel sort of
1202
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,289
the heartbeat of the
song and not be guessing.
1203
01:04:06,290 --> 01:04:07,912
Just picture it's
going to sound like this,
1204
01:04:07,913 --> 01:04:09,120
you know, when it's all done.
1205
01:04:09,121 --> 01:04:13,434
So sometimes I'll
start with those sort of
1206
01:04:13,435 --> 01:04:15,472
more stylized things first.
1207
01:04:16,162 --> 01:04:20,441
I'm in awe of the
way a producer like Jonathan
1208
01:04:20,442 --> 01:04:23,651
can snatch one of those layers,
move it to the front
1209
01:04:23,652 --> 01:04:28,071
of the soundscape and change
the whole mood of the song.
1210
01:04:29,106 --> 01:04:32,074
Oh, yeah, no, this is this
is one of my favorite bits.
1211
01:04:32,075 --> 01:04:34,110
- Yeah.
- This was I saw this happen.
1212
01:04:34,111 --> 01:04:35,594
Like I remember
thinking, oh, man, he's
1213
01:04:35,595 --> 01:04:38,494
just replicated
the ancient melody.
1214
01:04:38,495 --> 01:04:42,084
Yeah. So we had originally
we had him playing over
1215
01:04:42,085 --> 01:04:44,328
the very beginning of the song.
1216
01:04:48,194 --> 01:04:50,195
Because we knew we
wanted that melody, right?
1217
01:04:50,196 --> 01:04:52,888
And so we weren't
exactly sure in the moment,
1218
01:04:52,889 --> 01:04:54,855
you know, is it going
to be a guitar?
1219
01:04:54,856 --> 01:04:57,823
Is it a piano? Is it a vocal?
Let's just get it all down.
1220
01:04:57,824 --> 01:05:01,966
And then sort of in the
editing process, we will decide.
1221
01:05:01,967 --> 01:05:04,934
So I think this was kind of
the first thing he played.
1222
01:05:07,662 --> 01:05:09,767
Kind of played
through the whole song.
1223
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:13,461
Just beautiful tone.
1224
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,498
But I think the moment that it
really counts would be this
1225
01:05:17,499 --> 01:05:21,019
section between the second
chorus and the bridge.
1226
01:05:21,020 --> 01:05:23,366
- Yeah.
- I'll solo it.
1227
01:05:23,367 --> 01:05:25,852
We can kind of hear
what he's doing, but.
1228
01:05:32,963 --> 01:05:34,757
Yeah
- Yeah, this is basically
1229
01:05:34,758 --> 01:05:37,104
the "amen, amen".
1230
01:05:37,105 --> 01:05:39,521
And everything
altogether comes in.
1231
01:05:49,186 --> 01:05:52,395
Yeah, so that's so good.
1232
01:05:52,396 --> 01:05:55,088
It's very like
an arrival moment.
1233
01:05:55,089 --> 01:05:59,299
It's a hook we've heard from the
beginning, a softer version.
1234
01:05:59,300 --> 01:06:03,027
And then that's more
of a triumphant version.
1235
01:06:03,028 --> 01:06:05,754
And how are
you feeling about this song?
1236
01:06:05,962 --> 01:06:08,825
I feel the most
excited about it.
1237
01:06:08,826 --> 01:06:11,553
I just cannot wait for
people to hear this song.
1238
01:06:12,796 --> 01:06:15,349
And the final
destination for all this?
1239
01:06:15,350 --> 01:06:18,007
Well, it'll be on
Chris Tomlin's next album,
1240
01:06:18,008 --> 01:06:20,527
which might already be out by
the time you're watching this.
1241
01:06:20,528 --> 01:06:22,736
But stay with us
and you'll hear
1242
01:06:22,737 --> 01:06:25,532
all these layers come
together beautifully
1243
01:06:25,533 --> 01:06:27,811
in a new version
of the first hymn.
1244
01:06:28,363 --> 01:06:30,640
And while all
this has been going on,
1245
01:06:30,641 --> 01:06:34,300
we've been getting ready
for something very special.
1246
01:06:50,523 --> 01:06:52,007
You know, it's
interesting.
1247
01:06:52,008 --> 01:06:54,319
1860, the school was founded,
1248
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,287
started with eight faculty
members.
1249
01:06:56,288 --> 01:06:58,979
And one of those was a
professor of sacred music.
1250
01:06:58,980 --> 01:07:00,498
So from the very beginning,
1251
01:07:00,499 --> 01:07:02,431
the humble beginnings
of the institution,
1252
01:07:02,432 --> 01:07:05,192
music at the at the heart of
things,
1253
01:07:05,193 --> 01:07:06,573
not that surprising.
1254
01:07:06,574 --> 01:07:09,300
When you think about the musical
1255
01:07:09,301 --> 01:07:11,648
propensity of human beings,
1256
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:14,409
music found in
every known culture,
1257
01:07:14,616 --> 01:07:16,721
music ubiquitous in our world
1258
01:07:16,722 --> 01:07:20,139
and so important
to human flourishing.
1259
01:07:20,795 --> 01:07:24,212
People, it turns
out, want to make music.
1260
01:07:24,937 --> 01:07:28,491
Wheaton College
was established in 1860
1261
01:07:28,492 --> 01:07:30,838
by abolitionist church leaders.
1262
01:07:30,839 --> 01:07:34,567
It was a well-known stop on the
famous Underground Railway.
1263
01:07:34,843 --> 01:07:37,017
Its main mission
today is to provide a
1264
01:07:37,018 --> 01:07:39,640
classic liberal arts education,
1265
01:07:39,641 --> 01:07:42,643
integrating
science, music, history,
1266
01:07:42,644 --> 01:07:45,061
literature and
the Christian faith.
1267
01:07:45,992 --> 01:07:49,685
This is also where I teach
the history of Christianity
1268
01:07:49,686 --> 01:07:51,687
and what we can
learn from the good
1269
01:07:51,688 --> 01:07:53,275
and the bad of the past.
1270
01:07:53,276 --> 01:07:56,417
The first hymn is
definitely part of the good.
1271
01:07:58,212 --> 01:08:02,111
Why is Wheaton College involved
in this first hymn project?
1272
01:08:02,112 --> 01:08:04,355
I mean, apart from the fact
that I just wandered over
1273
01:08:04,356 --> 01:08:06,633
one day to your office
and sprung the idea on you?
1274
01:08:06,634 --> 01:08:08,704
Well, I'm sure
you recall we were both
1275
01:08:08,705 --> 01:08:10,809
very enthused
about the whole thing.
1276
01:08:10,810 --> 01:08:14,365
What a compelling
story that we would link
1277
01:08:14,366 --> 01:08:17,507
with this writer of this music
1278
01:08:17,886 --> 01:08:19,887
so, so many years ago,
1279
01:08:19,888 --> 01:08:22,062
that we would join hands
1280
01:08:22,063 --> 01:08:25,410
with those
who sang this first hymn.
1281
01:08:25,411 --> 01:08:28,137
And now, so many
years later,
1282
01:08:28,138 --> 01:08:31,693
resonating with
the message, the music.
1283
01:08:32,004 --> 01:08:34,109
When the team at
the conservatory heard
1284
01:08:34,110 --> 01:08:35,904
about the first hymn project,
1285
01:08:36,457 --> 01:08:38,389
they were keen to
see the song brought
1286
01:08:38,390 --> 01:08:41,703
back to life in
multiple musical formats.
1287
01:08:42,118 --> 01:08:47,295
I think this is
such a mysterious and honourable
1288
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:50,573
project and
our students and faculty
1289
01:08:50,574 --> 01:08:54,370
have really seized this story.
1290
01:08:54,371 --> 01:08:57,236
Which is why
these guys are here.
1291
01:08:58,651 --> 01:09:02,516
They're working on a classical
rendition of the first hymn,
1292
01:09:02,517 --> 01:09:06,521
both the Tomlin/Fielding version
and the original Greek one.
1293
01:09:08,385 --> 01:09:11,042
I am honoured
to be a part of it.
1294
01:09:11,043 --> 01:09:13,010
I love surprises.
1295
01:09:13,321 --> 01:09:15,978
And this is a complete surprise.
1296
01:09:15,979 --> 01:09:17,567
So I count it a privilege.
1297
01:09:18,015 --> 01:09:20,914
Dr Tony Payne is the
creative mind
1298
01:09:20,915 --> 01:09:22,572
behind the new arrangement.
1299
01:09:22,986 --> 01:09:25,160
It's really
another worldly kind of
1300
01:09:25,161 --> 01:09:29,336
experience to reach back
into hymnody
1301
01:09:29,337 --> 01:09:31,822
that wasn't notated
like we notate
1302
01:09:32,409 --> 01:09:35,135
and didn't have the form and
structure
1303
01:09:35,136 --> 01:09:38,173
like we have today in
a typical hymn
1304
01:09:38,174 --> 01:09:39,865
or Christian song.
1305
01:09:40,348 --> 01:09:42,901
And so I struggled
with it a bit.
1306
01:09:42,902 --> 01:09:48,080
It's like a gift that
comes in a time capsule
1307
01:09:48,322 --> 01:09:51,600
and we're suddenly confronting
it for the first time.
1308
01:09:51,601 --> 01:09:54,431
And I find
it really captivating.
1309
01:09:57,262 --> 01:10:00,056
I had a go at
singing the Greek original
1310
01:10:00,057 --> 01:10:02,024
in the ruins of Oxyrhynchus.
1311
01:10:02,025 --> 01:10:04,406
It was special,
but I'm pretty sure
1312
01:10:04,407 --> 01:10:07,133
this is how it's
really meant to sound.
1313
01:11:16,651 --> 01:11:20,310
They say music
can transport the soul.
1314
01:11:20,931 --> 01:11:24,935
I reckon I just visited
Roman Egypt in the 200s.
1315
01:11:25,453 --> 01:11:29,699
How I wish we could now bring
the original composer here
1316
01:11:29,975 --> 01:11:33,358
to watch what we're about
to do to the first hymn.
1317
01:11:34,428 --> 01:11:38,983
♪ Let all be silent ♪
1318
01:11:38,984 --> 01:11:41,951
♪ The shining stars not sound ♪
1319
01:11:41,952 --> 01:11:43,746
♪ Rushing rivers..... ♪
1320
01:11:43,747 --> 01:11:45,886
Tony is the kind
of musical scholar
1321
01:11:45,887 --> 01:11:49,096
that speaks multiple
musical languages.
1322
01:11:49,097 --> 01:11:51,823
He tells me
he just loves what Chris
1323
01:11:51,824 --> 01:11:53,999
and Ben's melody is saying.
1324
01:11:54,793 --> 01:11:58,105
You tend to
have thirds like this.
1325
01:12:02,007 --> 01:12:03,594
That's what our ear expects.
1326
01:12:03,595 --> 01:12:08,081
But in this newer
language that we're enjoying
1327
01:12:08,082 --> 01:12:10,395
and learning about.
1328
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:14,846
So there it is just hanging.
1329
01:12:14,847 --> 01:12:17,642
And I don't think there
could be a more powerful use
1330
01:12:17,643 --> 01:12:21,164
of that suspended harmony
as the technical term for it.
1331
01:12:22,027 --> 01:12:25,202
Because normally we
might expect to hear this.
1332
01:12:27,066 --> 01:12:29,103
But that's not there.
1333
01:12:33,003 --> 01:12:34,833
But then you look at the text
1334
01:12:35,523 --> 01:12:38,492
and you realize it makes
all the sense in the world.
1335
01:12:39,769 --> 01:12:41,667
Let all be silent.
1336
01:12:43,773 --> 01:12:45,808
Shining stars not sound.
1337
01:12:45,809 --> 01:12:51,539
The thought of the stars
being silent is really powerful.
1338
01:12:52,298 --> 01:12:56,716
♪ Amen we sing ♪
1339
01:12:56,717 --> 01:13:00,305
♪ Amen ♪
1340
01:13:00,306 --> 01:13:04,724
♪ Amen we sing ♪
1341
01:13:04,725 --> 01:13:10,558
♪ Amen ♪
1342
01:13:24,952 --> 01:13:27,022
The big day approaches.
1343
01:13:27,023 --> 01:13:31,578
Chris and Ben have chosen Fort
Worth, Texas for the concert
1344
01:13:31,579 --> 01:13:35,480
that officially hands the first
hymn back to the world.
1345
01:13:37,136 --> 01:13:38,930
We've still got a bit of time.
1346
01:13:38,931 --> 01:13:41,657
And there's one more
person I wanted to speak to
1347
01:13:41,658 --> 01:13:43,797
about how this
whole project relates
1348
01:13:43,798 --> 01:13:46,318
to the broader
story of sacred music.
1349
01:13:46,732 --> 01:13:48,837
And I think
people remember
1350
01:13:48,838 --> 01:13:51,219
songs more than they
remember sermons.
1351
01:13:51,599 --> 01:13:54,221
And in that time, especially
when not everybody was reading,
1352
01:13:54,222 --> 01:13:55,707
there were not books everywhere.
1353
01:13:55,948 --> 01:13:58,502
So the words of the
songs would be some things
1354
01:13:58,503 --> 01:14:01,021
that will stay
deep in their memories.
1355
01:14:01,022 --> 01:14:03,127
We know from my own research,
1356
01:14:03,128 --> 01:14:05,612
how missionaries when they
arrive in different places,
1357
01:14:05,613 --> 01:14:08,304
new places, they were
very concerned
1358
01:14:08,305 --> 01:14:11,411
about publishing some kind of
collection of songs
1359
01:14:11,412 --> 01:14:13,378
because once they were gone,
1360
01:14:13,379 --> 01:14:16,209
until the next
preacher would come around,
1361
01:14:16,210 --> 01:14:19,592
the community could
hold on to those words
1362
01:14:19,593 --> 01:14:22,354
and remember what
they were by singing.
1363
01:14:25,426 --> 01:14:28,739
From the first
century to the 21st century,
1364
01:14:28,740 --> 01:14:31,707
Christians haven't just
preached their message
1365
01:14:31,708 --> 01:14:34,745
about the Father,
Son, and Holy Spirit.
1366
01:14:34,746 --> 01:14:38,196
They've sung it,
inviting everyone,
1367
01:14:38,197 --> 01:14:40,302
whether believer or doubter,
1368
01:14:40,303 --> 01:14:43,098
whether in Oxyrhynchus or Texas,
1369
01:14:43,099 --> 01:14:45,273
to consider singing along.
1370
01:14:45,619 --> 01:14:47,861
I think so.
I think music is very powerful
1371
01:14:47,862 --> 01:14:50,588
and it moves
emotions and sometimes,
1372
01:14:50,589 --> 01:14:52,521
I think it's interesting.
We have eyelids,
1373
01:14:52,522 --> 01:14:53,729
but we don't have earlids.
1374
01:14:53,730 --> 01:14:55,628
So sometimes
we may hear something,
1375
01:14:55,629 --> 01:14:58,078
even if you are not
planning on, that's different.
1376
01:14:58,079 --> 01:15:00,149
We can always turn our
face and not see something,
1377
01:15:00,150 --> 01:15:03,739
but we can sometimes not take
a while for us not to listen.
1378
01:15:03,740 --> 01:15:06,431
And I think it's interesting.
I have heard stories of people
1379
01:15:06,432 --> 01:15:09,296
that they were just
attracted by the sound
1380
01:15:09,297 --> 01:15:11,816
and then they join in
and then they understand,
1381
01:15:11,817 --> 01:15:13,404
oh, this is what they're saying.
1382
01:15:13,405 --> 01:15:16,200
And people that have
told me in their own lives,
1383
01:15:16,201 --> 01:15:18,167
how they still remember
1384
01:15:18,168 --> 01:15:20,031
that was that one line
from that song
1385
01:15:20,032 --> 01:15:22,447
and they didn't understand
anything about doctrine,
1386
01:15:22,448 --> 01:15:25,347
about church, what's a
Protestant, what's a Baptist,
1387
01:15:25,348 --> 01:15:29,145
but that message of
the song spoke to me.
1388
01:15:30,629 --> 01:15:33,355
One reason thoughtful
people are put off
1389
01:15:33,356 --> 01:15:35,426
by this Christian message today
1390
01:15:35,427 --> 01:15:39,016
is the sheer
number of church brands.
1391
01:15:39,017 --> 01:15:40,880
With an estimated 3000
1392
01:15:40,881 --> 01:15:44,435
denominations worldwide,
it's no surprise that
1393
01:15:44,436 --> 01:15:48,371
people ask the question,
which version of Christianity?
1394
01:15:48,923 --> 01:15:51,822
That's what's so
special about the first hymn.
1395
01:15:51,823 --> 01:15:54,687
It was composed before
there were denominations.
1396
01:15:54,688 --> 01:15:57,068
It captures
the heart of Christianity
1397
01:15:57,069 --> 01:16:01,107
before there was Roman Catholic,
Greek Orthodox, or Protestant.
1398
01:16:01,108 --> 01:16:03,730
And Chris and Ben
have worked really hard
1399
01:16:03,731 --> 01:16:05,352
to highlight that core
1400
01:16:05,353 --> 01:16:08,217
so that all the brands
of Christianity today
1401
01:16:08,218 --> 01:16:10,186
can sing the new first hymn.
1402
01:16:12,498 --> 01:16:16,156
Well, it's now
time to test that idea.
1403
01:16:16,157 --> 01:16:18,712
And have we got
the crowd to do it.
1404
01:16:19,436 --> 01:16:22,922
There's over
10,000 people here tonight.
1405
01:16:22,923 --> 01:16:24,406
It's completely sold out.
1406
01:16:24,407 --> 01:16:26,822
When I was a musician, I
only ever played venues
1407
01:16:26,823 --> 01:16:30,136
about a 10th the size
of this on a good night,
1408
01:16:30,137 --> 01:16:32,379
but I remember
the feeling backstage
1409
01:16:32,380 --> 01:16:34,623
as the audience
filled the venue.
1410
01:16:34,624 --> 01:16:36,799
I wonder how Chris
and Ben are feeling.
1411
01:16:39,111 --> 01:16:41,906
Brings out both
new and old things
1412
01:16:41,907 --> 01:16:43,494
out of his treasure chest.
1413
01:16:43,495 --> 01:16:46,601
This is the climax of
an extraordinary journey.
1414
01:16:46,602 --> 01:16:51,536
We have traced the
rediscovery of P. Oxy 1786,
1415
01:16:51,537 --> 01:16:54,160
uncovered the significance of
the first hymn
1416
01:16:54,161 --> 01:16:55,679
with musical notation,
1417
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:59,234
and witnessed master
musicians transform it
1418
01:16:59,235 --> 01:17:01,926
into a stunning
21st century anthem.
1419
01:17:01,927 --> 01:17:05,758
After two years of work,
we're ready to return the song
1420
01:17:05,759 --> 01:17:09,452
to its rightful place
on the lips of thousands.
1421
01:17:09,832 --> 01:17:13,559
The last time it was sung
was probably 1,800 years ago.
1422
01:17:14,284 --> 01:17:17,667
And we will sing it tonight
for the very first time.
1423
01:17:19,496 --> 01:17:23,604
And now, the
resurrected first hymn in full.
1424
01:17:38,274 --> 01:17:41,518
♪ Let all be silent ♪
1425
01:17:42,554 --> 01:17:44,936
♪ The shining stars not sound ♪
1426
01:17:45,453 --> 01:17:48,215
♪ The rushing rivers still ♪
1427
01:17:49,078 --> 01:17:51,805
♪ Let the mountains bow down ♪
1428
01:17:52,046 --> 01:17:54,566
♪ In awe and wonder ♪
1429
01:17:56,292 --> 01:17:58,846
♪ In reverence we come ♪
1430
01:17:59,398 --> 01:18:02,884
♪ Who is worthy
of all worship? ♪
1431
01:18:02,885 --> 01:18:05,750
♪ Who is seated on the throne? ♪
1432
01:18:07,027 --> 01:18:12,411
♪ All powers cry out in answer ♪
1433
01:18:14,137 --> 01:18:19,142
♪ All glory and praise forever ♪
1434
01:18:19,660 --> 01:18:27,218
♪ To our God the Father,
Son, and Holy Spirit ♪
1435
01:18:27,219 --> 01:18:32,500
♪ Amen, we sing amen. ♪
1436
01:18:33,329 --> 01:18:36,712
♪ Let all be silent ♪
1437
01:18:37,574 --> 01:18:40,369
♪ The shining stars not sound ♪
1438
01:18:40,370 --> 01:18:43,477
♪ The rushing rivers still ♪
1439
01:18:44,547 --> 01:18:47,101
♪ The mountains bow down ♪
1440
01:18:47,343 --> 01:18:49,794
♪ In awe and wonder ♪
1441
01:18:51,347 --> 01:18:53,867
♪ In reverence we come ♪
1442
01:18:54,453 --> 01:18:57,524
♪ Who is worthy
of all worship? ♪
1443
01:18:57,525 --> 01:19:00,356
♪ Who is seated on the throne? ♪
1444
01:19:01,322 --> 01:19:04,429
♪ Who is worthy
of all worship? ♪
1445
01:19:04,670 --> 01:19:08,813
♪ Who is seated on the throne? ♪
1446
01:19:09,020 --> 01:19:14,094
♪ All powers cry out in answer ♪
1447
01:19:15,440 --> 01:19:20,859
♪ All glory and praise forever ♪
1448
01:19:21,549 --> 01:19:28,521
♪ To our God the Father,
Son, and Holy Spirit ♪
1449
01:19:28,522 --> 01:19:34,045
♪ Amen, we sing amen. ♪
1450
01:19:38,739 --> 01:19:42,501
♪ To the only
giver of all good gifts ♪
1451
01:19:43,019 --> 01:19:45,641
♪ Amen ♪
1452
01:19:45,642 --> 01:19:49,784
♪ To the only one
who forgives our sins ♪
1453
01:19:49,785 --> 01:19:52,441
♪ Amen ♪
1454
01:19:52,442 --> 01:19:56,169
♪ To the only God
to the risen King ♪
1455
01:19:56,170 --> 01:19:59,483
♪ To the one who died
and rose again ♪
1456
01:19:59,484 --> 01:20:05,041
♪ Amen, we sing amen. ♪
1457
01:20:06,111 --> 01:20:09,770
♪ To the only
giver of all good gifts ♪
1458
01:20:10,184 --> 01:20:12,910
♪ Amen ♪
1459
01:20:12,911 --> 01:20:17,190
♪ To the only one
who forgives our sins ♪
1460
01:20:17,191 --> 01:20:19,744
♪ Amen ♪
1461
01:20:19,745 --> 01:20:23,300
♪ To the only God
to the risen King ♪
1462
01:20:23,301 --> 01:20:27,166
♪ To the one
who died and rose again ♪
1463
01:20:27,167 --> 01:20:33,587
♪ Amen, we sing amen. ♪
1464
01:20:34,553 --> 01:20:39,731
♪ All power's
cry out in answer ♪
1465
01:20:41,077 --> 01:20:47,082
♪ All glory and praise forever ♪
1466
01:20:47,083 --> 01:20:54,400
♪ To our God the Father,
Son, and Holy Spirit ♪
1467
01:20:54,401 --> 01:20:59,129
♪ Amen, we sing amen ♪
1468
01:20:59,130 --> 01:21:01,338
♪ Amen. ♪
1469
01:21:01,339 --> 01:21:05,790
♪ Amen, we sing amen ♪
1470
01:21:05,791 --> 01:21:08,103
♪ Amen. ♪
1471
01:21:08,104 --> 01:21:14,283
♪ We sing our hymn, amen. ♪
1472
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:19,390
At the end
of all of this,
1473
01:21:19,391 --> 01:21:22,669
I just find myself thinking
about the original composer
1474
01:21:22,670 --> 01:21:25,363
of the first hymn and the
people who first sang it.
1475
01:21:25,708 --> 01:21:28,848
Here they were
trying to engage a culture
1476
01:21:28,849 --> 01:21:31,540
that was sometimes
trying to eradicate them.
1477
01:21:31,541 --> 01:21:33,094
They could never have imagined
1478
01:21:33,095 --> 01:21:34,854
what would become
of their song.
1479
01:21:34,855 --> 01:21:37,167
They could never have
predicted that their message
1480
01:21:37,168 --> 01:21:39,410
of the Father, Son,
and Holy Spirit
1481
01:21:39,411 --> 01:21:41,689
would one day cover the globe.
1482
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:43,725
Although maybe that's wrong.
1483
01:21:43,726 --> 01:21:46,279
Given how
confident we know they were
1484
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:48,799
in the only
giver of all good gifts,
1485
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:51,491
maybe this is
exactly the sort of thing
1486
01:21:51,492 --> 01:21:53,804
they might have
dared to imagine.
1487
01:21:53,805 --> 01:21:58,189
♪ To the only giver
of all good gifts ♪
1488
01:21:58,499 --> 01:22:00,812
♪ Amen ♪
1489
01:22:01,226 --> 01:22:05,540
♪ To the only one
who forgives our sins ♪
1490
01:22:05,541 --> 01:22:08,370
♪ Amen ♪
1491
01:22:08,371 --> 01:22:11,787
♪ To the only God,
to the risen King ♪
1492
01:22:11,788 --> 01:22:15,860
♪ To the one
who died and rose again ♪
1493
01:22:15,861 --> 01:22:17,655
♪ Amen ♪
1494
01:22:17,656 --> 01:22:21,660
♪ We sing amen. ♪
1495
01:22:22,523 --> 01:22:26,802
♪ To the only giver
of all good gifts ♪
1496
01:22:26,803 --> 01:22:29,082
♪ Amen ♪
1497
01:22:29,427 --> 01:22:33,809
♪ To the only one
who forgives our sins ♪
1498
01:22:33,810 --> 01:22:36,502
♪ Amen ♪
1499
01:22:36,503 --> 01:22:40,161
♪ To the only God,
to the risen King ♪
1500
01:22:40,162 --> 01:22:44,027
♪ To the one
who died and rose again ♪
1501
01:22:44,028 --> 01:22:45,683
♪ Amen ♪
1502
01:22:45,684 --> 01:22:50,689
♪ We sing amen. ♪
1503
01:22:51,414 --> 01:22:57,075
♪ All powers cry out in answer ♪
1504
01:22:58,490 --> 01:23:03,702
♪ All glory and praise forever ♪
1505
01:23:04,289 --> 01:23:12,020
♪ To our God, the Father,
Son, and Holy Spirit ♪
1506
01:23:12,021 --> 01:23:13,884
♪ Amen ♪
1507
01:23:13,885 --> 01:23:17,785
♪ We sing amen. ♪
1508
01:23:18,614 --> 01:23:27,104
♪ To our God, the Father,
Son, and Holy Spirit ♪
1509
01:23:27,105 --> 01:23:29,072
♪ Amen ♪
1510
01:23:29,073 --> 01:23:35,113
♪ We sing amen. ♪
1511
01:24:22,229 --> 01:24:26,646
♪ Let all be silent ♪
1512
01:24:26,647 --> 01:24:29,546
♪ The shining stars not sound ♪
1513
01:24:29,547 --> 01:24:33,653
♪ Rushing rivers still ♪
1514
01:24:33,654 --> 01:24:37,036
♪ let mountains bow down ♪
1515
01:24:37,037 --> 01:24:41,109
♪ In awe and wonder ♪
1516
01:24:41,110 --> 01:24:44,940
♪ with reverence we come ♪
1517
01:24:44,941 --> 01:24:48,599
♪ Who is worth of all worship? ♪
1518
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:52,810
♪ Who is seated on the throne? ♪
1519
01:24:52,811 --> 01:24:55,986
♪ All powers cry out ♪
1520
01:24:55,987 --> 01:25:00,198
♪ in answer. ♪
1521
01:25:00,474 --> 01:25:06,307
♪ All glory and praise forever ♪
1522
01:25:06,308 --> 01:25:10,034
♪ To our God, the Father, ♪
1523
01:25:10,035 --> 01:25:14,246
♪ Son and Holy Spirit ♪
1524
01:25:14,247 --> 01:25:15,868
♪ Amen ♪
1525
01:25:15,869 --> 01:25:21,599
♪ We sing, Amen ♪
1526
01:25:25,154 --> 01:25:26,948
♪ To the only giver ♪
1527
01:25:26,949 --> 01:25:29,295
♪ of all good gifts ♪
1528
01:25:29,296 --> 01:25:32,367
♪ Amen ♪
1529
01:25:32,368 --> 01:25:34,231
♪ To the only one ♪
1530
01:25:34,232 --> 01:25:36,785
♪ who forgives our sins ♪
1531
01:25:36,786 --> 01:25:39,651
♪ Amen ♪
1532
01:25:40,031 --> 01:25:41,756
♪ To the only God, ♪
1533
01:25:41,757 --> 01:25:43,861
♪ to the risen King ♪
1534
01:25:43,862 --> 01:25:45,863
♪ To the one who died ♪
1535
01:25:45,864 --> 01:25:47,520
♪ and rose again ♪
1536
01:25:47,521 --> 01:25:53,493
♪ Amen. We sing Amen. ♪
1537
01:25:55,426 --> 01:26:01,604
♪ All powers cry out in answer ♪
1538
01:26:03,088 --> 01:26:08,818
♪ All glory and praise forever ♪
1539
01:26:09,094 --> 01:26:12,580
♪ To our God, the Father, ♪
1540
01:26:12,581 --> 01:26:16,860
♪ Son and Holy Spirit ♪
1541
01:26:16,861 --> 01:26:18,965
♪ Amen. ♪
1542
01:26:18,966 --> 01:26:26,146
♪ We sing Amen. ♪
113958
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