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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,040 This programme deals with suicide and contains some strong language. 2 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,200 I think the main reason we're all sitting in front of the camera 3 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,400 and exposing our demons, if you like, or our truths, 4 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:09,760 is because the financial abuse in football 5 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,480 and the dark side of football 6 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,000 is something that's gone under the radar for too long. 7 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,320 - COMMENTATOR: - And Murphy...scores! 8 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,360 I know the amounts. I've lost... 9 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,320 ..four, maybe, five. 10 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,200 Four or five million, roughly. 11 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:31,800 A lot of people think, 12 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,920 "You're overpaid, anyway. Big deal. 13 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,120 "You were fortunate. You messed it up. Now you're like us." 14 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,280 People will assume I've got another four. Well, I haven't. 15 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,080 The financial abuse I've suffered 16 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,480 has caused me monumental problems in my life. 17 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:05,760 Unfortunately, I am certainly not a lone wolf in this story. 18 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,160 - COMMENTATORS: - What an outstanding goal! 19 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:09,880 To Tommy Johnson! 20 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,520 It's Craig Short. 21 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,560 And Deane scores! 22 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,960 Thousands of football players 23 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,680 have been manipulated... 24 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,480 ..by financial advisers and had their money taken. 25 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,800 Players have been left in a devastating financial position. 26 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,320 The only people that have made money are the advisers. 27 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,880 On top of that, they've got crippling tax bills... 28 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,360 ..which will, in some cases, 29 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,320 bankrupt them and make them homeless. 30 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:55,760 Marriages have broken down. 31 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,120 Friendships have been destroyed. 32 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:59,320 People are suicidal. 33 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:06,720 Justice is for those who want it the most. 34 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,800 You've got to fight for it. It doesn't come easy. 35 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,320 You've just got to keep going. 36 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:14,920 This has been the scandal of 37 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:16,280 the Premier League era... 38 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,400 ..and it needs to be exposed. 39 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,880 I don't want to be here today. I'm sure my former team-mates 40 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,760 and colleagues don't want to be here either. 41 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,240 We've been pulled together for the last decade 42 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:53,920 to fight this scandal. 43 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,560 But today is about highlighting a silent epidemic that is affecting 44 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,880 people from all walks of life, 45 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:03,960 with sometimes tragic consequences. 46 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,040 We want justice. We want 47 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,280 the Government to take notice. 48 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,360 From our group, the V11, 49 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,640 we've been together nigh on ten years now. 50 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:17,520 Everybody has come at us, 51 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,240 but we just keep on fighting. 52 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,320 And we won't stop until we get justice. 53 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,240 - What do we want? - Justice! 54 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,080 - When do we want it? - Now! 55 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,160 Enough's enough! 56 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:32,920 Financial misconduct is a huge 57 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,600 problem for people all over the UK. 58 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,640 Enough is enough. And we stand 59 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,720 shoulder to shoulder with all these victims 60 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:41,640 to march and campaign for reform. 61 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,720 Thank you very much. 62 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,320 We want justice! 63 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,560 - What do we want? - Justice! 64 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,640 - When do we want it? - Now! 65 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,520 - What do we want? - Justice! 66 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,920 - When do we want it? - Now! 67 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,920 You're invincible when you're playing. 68 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,080 Everyone loves you. You're getting paid every week. 69 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,600 Everything's done for you, given to you on a plate. 70 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:24,680 Murphy... 71 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,760 Oh, my goodness! 72 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:29,920 Danny Murphy! 73 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:32,400 All right? 74 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,920 I've got someone in my ear to tell me if I do it wrong. 75 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:39,800 But there's loads of pitfalls out there. 76 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,240 How long have we got? Are we on time? 77 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:42,840 All right, then, stand by VT... 78 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:46,360 Counting into the programme in four, 79 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,560 - three, two, one... - Mix 4, cue Gary. 80 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,400 - GARY LINEKER: - Hello. Six games on the way, 81 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,800 with last-minute winners, floodlight failures, 82 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,880 and even a drone stopping play. 83 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:57,600 And speaking of drones, 84 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,240 Alan Shearer and Danny Murphy are here! 85 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,440 - STUDIO: - Camera 1. - GARY LINEKER: - At West Ham... 86 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:07,680 As the Premier League grew and finances grew, the sharks...grew. 87 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,880 MUSIC: Rhythm Is A Dancer by Snap 88 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,520 A whole new ballgame. 89 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,760 An historic season for English football begins on Saturday... 90 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,280 - Whatever it takes. - The biggest change in 91 00:06:18,280 --> 00:06:20,720 the 104-year history of English football. 92 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,440 As the Premier League kicks off... 93 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,160 - What a goal! - Yeah, they've got it! 94 00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:29,920 The day the Premier League started, in 1992, 95 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,960 was the day when football changed overnight. 96 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,120 Money flooded into the game. 97 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:40,800 With the TV revenues coming in... 98 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:41,920 MUSIC OFF 99 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,720 ..suddenly, these young kids, who haven't often had much money, 100 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,280 and their families haven't 101 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:49,960 had much money, are suddenly awash with money. 102 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,480 Inevitably, you're going to get these people coming in, 103 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:57,960 trying to get a piece of it. 104 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,040 I don't think the clubs cared too much, really. 105 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,040 If you were a friend of a player and you were in finance, 106 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,720 you could get access to anyone. 107 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,040 You could get in the training ground and speak to the lads. 108 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,440 So before you know it, you're under the wing of a financial adviser 109 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,360 or a company that you don't know. 110 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,240 We were in an environment where we should have felt protected. 111 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,240 All we came to do 112 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:26,560 was play football, 113 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,880 you know, and if you're playing elite-level football, 114 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,400 you need to be able to trust somebody. 115 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,520 At the very heart of this 116 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,720 are Kingsbridge Asset Management. 117 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,360 They inserted themselves in the space between the players, 118 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,360 the agent and the club. 119 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,720 And they said, "What we have is the financial expertise 120 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:55,920 "to manage your money." 121 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,120 And there weren't many people offering that at that time. 122 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,840 They were founded by David McKee and Kevin McMenamin. 123 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:10,520 They started out in Nottingham. 124 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,360 The Premier League took them into a complete different stratosphere. 125 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,840 Off the car! Off the car! 126 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,080 McKee always claimed that he'd played for Ross County 127 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,120 and, therefore, he understood the football world. 128 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,640 Can't get away from all these autographs! 129 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,600 So his pitch to the footballers was, 130 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,840 "I understand what's driving you and your needs. 131 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,440 "This is a big family, and you're a member of the family. 132 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,240 "Come in the warm embrace of Kingsbridge. 133 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,160 "We'll look after you." 134 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,240 Kingsbridge, they seemed to be 135 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,280 in line with what everybody wanted at the time, 136 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,680 which was to have somebody looking after your finances 137 00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:02,520 for when you finish playing. 138 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,560 It was like wildfire word of mouth. 139 00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:11,200 "I'm being looked after by these guys. 140 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,880 "Maybe you should talk to them." 141 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,000 So if they got the, you know, the most influential person 142 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,760 in the changing rooms, you felt that you were in a safe place. 143 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:28,080 You see all these super-big names who you've looked up to. 144 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,000 The brochure, this big company, 145 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,960 all these wonderful international footballers... 146 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,720 Never mind just players - managers. 147 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,120 The really smart move very early on was getting into 148 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,280 the League Managers Association. 149 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,160 Kingsbridge ran the website for the League Managers Association. 150 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,480 They had a quote where 151 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,640 chairman Howard Wilkinson endorsed Kingsbridge. 152 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,560 Once they were in with the managers, 153 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:02,600 the pressure on everybody else in the dressing room is just immense. 154 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,560 Leeds United have today signed the Wallace twins, 155 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:12,920 Rod and Raymond, from Southampton. 156 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,240 Leeds have been chasing Rod for months, 157 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,480 and although Rod, on the left, is the star, 158 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,560 Leeds are glad to have both of them. 159 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:22,040 It's expected the deal will cost Leeds about 160 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,560 a million-and-a-half pounds. 161 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:25,960 OK, gentlemen... 162 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,800 That was a record signing at the time, 163 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,200 which is, like, peanuts now, 164 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,800 but it was a record signing for Leeds. 165 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,480 The signing of the contract! 166 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,920 If the opportunity for me to have a terrifically balanced team, 167 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,680 {\an8}age-wise, comes along, I'm going to dive in and take that opportunity. 168 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:50,240 {\an8}But I think we can win next week 169 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,680 by signing Old Mother Riley, then we'll sign her. 170 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:54,040 LAUGHTER 171 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,800 Howard Wilkinson was the manager. 172 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,400 A Sergeant Major. 173 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,840 He had his, he had his character of, 174 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,800 you know, being strict and all that sort of stuff. 175 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:05,600 INAUDIBLE OVER CROWD NOISE 176 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,680 In that first season, we won the First Division. 177 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:12,640 {\an8}- COMMENTATOR: - Now Speed. Wallace again. 178 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,440 {\an8}He was a bit lucky then. I think he might have been 179 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:15,720 {\an8}trying to play it back to Speed, 180 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,120 {\an8}but on he goes. 181 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:18,720 {\an8}He's made his own luck. 182 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,560 {\an8}Rodney Wallace... 183 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:22,520 What an outstanding goal, 184 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:26,160 on an outstanding day for Leeds United! 185 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,160 It's their finest hour. 186 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,160 Leeds United are worthy champions. 187 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,160 - PA: - Ladies and gentlemen, the man who has made it possible. 188 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,640 Please welcome...Sergeant Wilko, Howard Wilkinson! 189 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,240 CHEERING 190 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,680 Here he comes, complete with family... 191 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,920 - You all right? - Mm-hm. You? 192 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:08,640 Hello! 193 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,240 Hey! Hello. Come on... 194 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,480 It was one of the major advantages for us 195 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,720 to know that our managers were involved in 196 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,920 the, uh, in the company, Kingsbridge. 197 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,920 Me and my wife were looking to, uh, have a family. 198 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,680 Just make sure that our finances were in a good place. 199 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:32,680 So it was just a natural thing, really, to go with them. 200 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,320 2008 or '09, 201 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,760 I knew that something was going wrong. 202 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,080 I'm a practising investment fraud lawyer, and dual-qualified 203 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,440 as a chartered financial planner. 204 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,720 I got introduced to Rod Wallace 205 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,440 by a sporting football charity. 206 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:01,160 He appeared to essentially be 207 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:02,920 in a desperate financial position, 208 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,040 as a result of all of the advice and the investments 209 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:07,880 that he'd been advised to take out. 210 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,040 Film schemes were a really 211 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,520 integral part to the story. 212 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,880 British films with budgets of 213 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,240 15 million or less will qualify for 214 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,920 100% write-off for tax purposes, 215 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:23,400 when the film is completed... 216 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,000 The origin of the film schemes 217 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,680 lies with the UK Government. 218 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:31,280 What the Government wanted to do 219 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,560 was invest in 220 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:36,080 the film industry in this country. 221 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,200 So what they did was to say that 222 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:45,400 if ordinary people invested in making films, 223 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:50,520 we would be allowed to write that investment off 224 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,240 against our own tax. 225 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,200 It was, in its conception, entirely legitimate, 226 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,120 and it's what people wanted to happen. 227 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,840 What the Government didn't envisage was that the tax advantages 228 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,280 that they'd put into legislation 229 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,920 would be abused and would be 230 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:11,480 turned into a financial product. 231 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,240 They're insanely complicated. 232 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,440 The easy part is saying you get a tax break. 233 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,840 It's a no-brainer. They're safe and secure, 234 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,720 government-backed, like a pension. Who's going to say no? 235 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,160 Kingsbridge, for recommending these schemes, 236 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,440 would have been paid very significant commissions. 237 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,360 In some cases, £60,000, 238 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,440 £70,000 per scheme. 239 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,840 What was beautiful about the film scheme, in terms of Kingsbridge, 240 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,040 it gave them instant access to 40% of the total investment 241 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,600 on each and every film scheme. 242 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,760 I'm the football player, for example. 243 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,680 Kingsbridge is saying to me, "Give me 100 grand." 244 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,480 I say, "Yes, I trust you." 245 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,880 You take my 100 grand, you then leverage another £900,000 246 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:02,320 from a variety of well-known, famous banks. 247 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,400 Kingsbridge put that money in the film schemes... 248 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,120 ..and for that million quid, you get 400 grand back. 249 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,360 You could do as you see fit with that money, as long as 250 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,440 you pay the thing back in 15 years' time. 251 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,920 The problem was the 400 grand never got invested properly. 252 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,240 Often, it went into property schemes 253 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,320 which were controlled by Kingsbridge, which then failed. 254 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,200 When it all collapses... 255 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,920 ..you have no money, and HMRC 256 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,320 come and say, you do owe the tax. 257 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,680 My worth at the time 258 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,080 would have been 1.9 million. 259 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,920 With the film schemes... 260 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:04,080 HE CHUCKLES ..it's gone. Yeah, it's gone. 261 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,200 You try and keep the house as happy as possible. 262 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,240 Having the chats about 263 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,320 what we've been going through... 264 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,240 ..you can't really do that. 265 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,440 {\an8}No, we don't really talk about it too much. 266 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,080 {\an8}I mean, it's been going on for so long that 267 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,480 {\an8}unless there's, you know, like, 268 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,600 {\an8}some major change... 269 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,800 - ..I suppose you try not to think about it too much. - No. 270 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,040 Well, it's just heartbreaking, really. 271 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,840 Kingsbridge have landed me with 272 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,320 a 1.6-million tax bill. 273 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,560 If the HMRC get their way, 274 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:53,960 then that would be the end of my financial life. 275 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,240 I'll be bankrupt, erm, homeless... 276 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,280 Yeah, it would be... 277 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:06,720 It would be devastating. 278 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:52,600 If someone says, "I want to put all this money aside for the future, 279 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,280 "because I've got a long retirement ahead of me," 280 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,080 and the adviser recommends something that's completely different to that, 281 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,320 then absolutely, that is both negligent advice 282 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,440 and, in some cases, it will be illegal. 283 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,160 Rod then introduced me to a number of other players 284 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:18,040 that he was close to, and the scale of it became apparent. 285 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,800 You've got the number-one 286 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:28,000 financial advisory company promoting 287 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,200 a secure future for its clients 288 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,800 and taking the cream of the Premier League, 289 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,440 the internationals, the top players, the top managers, 290 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,480 and ruining lives. 291 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,320 Sometimes, I wish I'd never been a professional. 292 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,440 Marcus! 293 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,240 Enjoy it. All right? Try and relax, OK? 294 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,240 Use it! 295 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,440 I think he can go... Look, Cameron! 296 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,600 I started off non-league. 297 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,200 Years later, I'm going for a record fee 298 00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:59,960 as a defender. 299 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,360 And I thought, right, I'm going to be made for life 300 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:05,920 if I invest my money properly. 301 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,000 I thought I was given the right advice. 302 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,280 The more we've researched, 303 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,320 then you understand then, the anger has just grown and grown and grown. 304 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,160 Once Kingsbridge got the money in from the film schemes, 305 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,720 then the next stage was to say, 306 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,840 "Well, what we'll do is, we'll put you into property schemes." 307 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,400 Charlotte Harbor was a development 308 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,160 on the West Coast of Florida, 309 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:46,840 of condominiums. 310 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,560 Commission on some of these very risky products 311 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,800 could have been 20% or 30% of the amounts invested. 312 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,040 Many of these schemes were 313 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,560 unregulated, overseas, 314 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,480 high-risk structures, with a high chance of failure. 315 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,960 I remember them putting a big plan out on the table 316 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,400 at the training ground. 317 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,000 Players are gathering round who are clients of Kingsbridge. 318 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,360 "That's where the money's going to go. It's a safe bet." 319 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,320 And that's when everyone just said, 320 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:23,800 "OK, then, we'll put our money in there." 321 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:32,400 Charlotte Harbor was promised to be... 322 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,440 ..a sort of cross between 323 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,880 Long Island and California. 324 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,040 Charlotte Harbor actually was 325 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,320 a windswept stretch of sand, 326 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,840 next to an industrial complex. 327 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,080 They were ridiculously overvalued, 328 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,640 and it appears now 329 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,000 that the people who had the vested interest 330 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,200 in Charlotte Harbor were the people involved in Kingsbridge. 331 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,760 Nobody properly advised 332 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,600 would have put their money into that scheme. 333 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,960 I was told the valuation 334 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,200 was at about 25% higher 335 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:35,920 than what we purchased them for. 336 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,760 Within a few years, you realised that it was nowhere near that. 337 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,000 The first one had no value whatsoever. 338 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,600 I had a huge mortgage on it, 339 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,080 which I just couldn't afford the repayments, 340 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,760 so the easiest thing for me to do was walk away, 341 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,320 giving the keys back. 342 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,240 I never even went there! 343 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,440 For these people to come into my life and be my friends 344 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:10,760 and then take my money... 345 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,680 ..and be able to get away with it... 346 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,520 I mean, sometimes, you want to hurt people. 347 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,720 They came into my life for years 348 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,920 and then financially abused me. 349 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,080 All of his investments have gone... 350 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,320 ..and he's facing a £1 million liability, 351 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,120 If you pay the Revenue £50,000 a year, 352 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:43,480 it would take 30 years. 353 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,640 The... The anger and the... 354 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,280 And... See, even now, I'm talking now, I can feel it now. 355 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,320 I'm fortunate, I've got 356 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,800 a very good job, 357 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,720 but people I thought were my friends took away my future. 358 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,160 # Happy birthday to you 359 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,920 # Happy birthday, dear Johnny 360 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,400 # Happy birthday to you. # 361 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,760 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 362 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,120 The problems came when Craig retired. 363 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,680 He started receiving brown envelopes from HMRC. 364 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,800 {\an8}The bills were huge, 365 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:10,240 {\an8}absolutely huge. 366 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,520 {\an8}We discovered that Craig's 367 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,000 {\an8}total liability was £1.6 million. 368 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,200 Thank you for all your support for the family. 369 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,920 So thank you all, and happy birthday. All the best. 370 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,240 So the first thing we did was reach out to HMRC. 371 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,240 Unfortunately, we didn't get a very good response. 372 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,240 What they said to Craig was, 373 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,120 "We're going to bankrupt you 374 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:43,360 "every year of your working life." 375 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,200 He also received a bankruptcy petition on Christmas Eve. 376 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,320 I'm sitting there thinking, "God, I'm accused of being a tax avoider." 377 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,600 I broke down in the meeting, 378 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,160 and that was the end of the meeting, really. 379 00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:04,480 She could have easily just walked away. 380 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,040 Easily walked away. 381 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,840 When there's letters coming through the door, 382 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,600 when there's bailiffs knocking on the door, most people would. 383 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,600 - Thank you. Could I get a taxi to Farringdon, please? - Yeah. 384 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,000 I began my career as a solicitor 385 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,560 and criminal defence lawyer. 386 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,200 I'm devoted to this cause. 387 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,880 It has completely transformed everything, really. 388 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,440 I'm Carly Barnes. You all know me. 389 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,920 I'm chairing the panel. I'm also Secretariat for the APPG. 390 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,040 I obviously felt completely protective of Craig 391 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,000 and that I needed to help Craig as my partner, 392 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,880 but also, at the same time, 393 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,080 we were hearing amongst our network, 394 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,080 if you like, of all these stories. 395 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,400 - That's right, Carly. Obviously, I'll walk it through... - Mm. 396 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,880 They'd ask how he is. He'd say, "I'm good, apart from..." 397 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,440 And then that would trigger a conversation, where they'd say, 398 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,040 "Oh, my God, you as well!" 399 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,000 Hiya, Sean, it's Carly. I just got your message... 400 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,800 Word started getting round that I was trying to help people, 401 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,040 because of my legal background. 402 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,120 In Craig's case, he had bailiffs coming to the training ground, 403 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:19,040 when he was trying to work. 404 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,400 I said, "Look, I haven't got the money. 405 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,480 "I'm at the end of my career. I'm done." 406 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:30,760 We had about 200 Kingsbridge clients reach out to us, 407 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,720 and it was just like a chain reaction. 408 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,040 They don't want to hear from 409 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,120 the individuals themselves. 410 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:39,600 Make them understand 411 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,120 the humanity of this. 412 00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:49,400 So what I came up with was, 413 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,960 why don't we form a team... 414 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,600 ..of 11 people that will represent everybody, eventually? 415 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,600 And 11 people from different walks of life, different circumstances... 416 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,200 ..that are really committed to finding a solution. 417 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,320 It was March 2016 418 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,120 when we first got together. 419 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,480 We have, within the group, 420 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:17,960 team captains... 421 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,960 ..Premier League title holders, 422 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,520 Champions League winners... 423 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:27,880 ..FA Cup winners. 424 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,720 This is a group of extraordinarily successful players. 425 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,440 The group is called the V11. 426 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,720 V is for victors. 427 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,600 They were big names in the game. 428 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,480 They created some of the biggest 429 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,200 sports stories in British history. 430 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,480 A good ball by Dixon. 431 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,320 Finding Smith. For Thomas. 432 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:57,600 Charging through the midfield, 433 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,720 Thomas! It's up for grabs now! 434 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,160 Thomas! 435 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,800 Right at the end! 436 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,680 I'm just living like a clown. 437 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,560 All fun on the outside, laughing and joking... 438 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,000 {\an8}..but every day... 439 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,600 {\an8}..I think about a lot of things. 440 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,120 {\an8}Self-harming... 441 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:32,760 And I'm one of the lucky ones. 442 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,200 It was tough even just to speak out, 443 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,680 but I thought, I have to speak out 444 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,800 for people who are suffering in silence. 445 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,360 There's sportsmen out there 446 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,760 who are struggling, 447 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,680 all by themselves, 448 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,200 without no help at all, 449 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,560 who are frightened to turn to anybody. 450 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,840 You feel like, how could you have been so stupid? 451 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,480 You look around at your family, you don't feel worthy. 452 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,120 But having said all of that, 453 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,240 you actually have to go out every day, 454 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,360 and you put your veneer on and you say... 455 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,000 You smile, you get dressed, you say, 456 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,480 "Well, I'm Brian Deane and everything's great. 457 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,520 "Everything's fantastic." 458 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,920 My advice was the V11 engage some investigators 459 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,640 who can actually look at it and say, is it mis-selling, 460 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,280 or is it actually much worse than that? 461 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,640 We began work on this 462 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,800 back in May of 2016. 463 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:59,520 We've amassed 60,000 pieces of information and documentation. 464 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,800 Forgeries, hidden interests, 465 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,440 alleged criminality. 466 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,760 And we've got reports and witness statements 467 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,640 from key staff members at Kingsbridge. 468 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,600 Those that were there to guide, support them, 469 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,560 left them with no money, 470 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,440 no prospects and a retirement of pain and anguish. 471 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,040 The stark reality is, they're on a knife edge. 472 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,280 We are doing this for nothing. 473 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:37,800 It's a matter of justice. 474 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,080 - INTERVIEWER: - Tommy Johnson, you promised me that goal 475 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,720 before the game, and you got it. 476 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,000 Yeah, can't believe it. 477 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,720 I think promotion, we come here for first, and then to score, 478 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,120 it's brilliant. 479 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,840 CROWD CHANT AND CHEER 480 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,120 All I ever wanted to do was play football. 481 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,160 School team, district, county... 482 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,920 ..then got spotted by Notts County. 483 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,480 Turned pro, 75 quid a week. 484 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,960 Got in the first team, 17, 18. 485 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,280 {\an8}We got promotion in successive seasons. 486 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,360 {\an8}Getting it into Tommy Johnson. 487 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,720 {\an8}A brilliant goal! 488 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,480 Tommy Johnson, his second! 489 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,120 You're 19 and 20, playing at Wembley and scoring goals. 490 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,240 Can you just say a couple of words? 491 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,000 Went to Derby, then went to Villa. 492 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,360 Then went to Celtic. 493 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,400 I was on £8,000 a week. 494 00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,960 Four-and-a-half years. 495 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,040 Larsson! It opens up for him... 496 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,600 Unselfishly to Tommy Johnson! 497 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,680 Johnson gets the party going! 498 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,000 Won the league! We've won the league! 499 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,360 Winning the treble, scoring a goal, 500 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,240 win the league... No, doesn't get any better. 501 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,400 Oh, here we are! 502 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,040 Box of photos. 503 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,920 Can have a look through these. 504 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,480 Kingsbridge started representing me 505 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,240 through our ex-agent. 506 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,320 Holidays... 507 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:41,920 We all lived in Nottingham, 508 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,520 so we had that connection. 509 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,360 There were my financial advisers 510 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,840 and a lot of the players' financial advisers at Villa. 511 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:50,520 Oh, hang on! 512 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,360 League Cup, 1996. Dear me! 513 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:04,360 {\an8}They were there. 514 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,640 {\an8}Got them tickets. 515 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,800 {\an8}Probably one of the best games ever 516 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,440 {\an8}for Aston Villa. 517 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,640 Here's Villa with another attack. 518 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,680 Savo Milosevic... 519 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,680 Oh, a terrific goal! 520 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:21,960 The Coca Cola Cup final 521 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,120 has been won by Aston Villa. 522 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,480 Oh, there you go! 523 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,040 Wow! 524 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,600 Them two and me in the background. 525 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,400 Oh, here we are. 526 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,040 Me, obviously, there. 527 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,040 We've won... We won 3-0. 528 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,520 And then Dave McKee, 529 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,040 Kevin McMenamin. 530 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,640 Not many people get to hold 531 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,240 the League Cup in their hands, do they? And... 532 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,360 ..drinking out of it. 533 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:05,800 Bastards. 534 00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:10,600 That just shows how close they were. 535 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,920 People will turn round and say they were just financial advisers. 536 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,040 They weren't. They were friends. 537 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:44,200 I was probably the closest one to them. 538 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,200 We went away together. 539 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,360 They came to my wedding. 540 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,560 These guys have just ruined our lives. 541 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,040 They've got so embedded in their lifestyle, 542 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,280 they know their family, they know the children. 543 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,160 They'll run their lives, their financial lives for them. 544 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,760 It becomes a relationship of trust. 545 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,400 And of course, the more it grows, 546 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,520 the bigger the scope for dishonesty, 547 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,160 because nobody is checking at all. 548 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,480 These guys didn't have a chance. 549 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,400 The way that their advisers were working, 550 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,000 they could not have stopped this happening. 551 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,800 So this is a, this is an investment report that was provided 552 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,720 for a professional footballer in December 2006. 553 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:28,840 Was setting out some recommendations and a summary of his asset base, 554 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,880 really dealing with his income needs in retirement. 555 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:39,240 You know, this report tells him that his assets are £12.2 million. 556 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:43,560 And in terms of liabilities, there's no real mention of, 557 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,960 you know, the millions of pounds of film scheme liabilities 558 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:51,120 that we, that we know he's got which, you know, in my view, 559 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:56,480 would have given him a completely false understanding 560 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,480 of what his true position was and his true net worth. 561 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,400 The reality of where he's at today is a million miles away. 562 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,000 Because of Kingsbridge, the largest tax bill I've seen 563 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,480 is about 20 million. 564 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:13,840 For the V11... 565 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,600 ..the average is north of £1 million. 566 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,400 People say to me, oh, you don't really talk that much. 567 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,840 You don't ask questions. 568 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:33,760 {\an8}Turn around... 569 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,560 {\an8}My dad used to say, 570 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,880 {\an8}"Ask no questions, get told no lies." 571 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:45,160 And this whole saga's been full of lies, 572 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:46,640 full of greed. 573 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,480 Davis... Oh, what a finish! 574 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,320 Sean Davis secures 575 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,440 the First Division title for Fulham! 576 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,840 Oh, it's fantastic. I've been here a long time now 577 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,880 and this is, it's the best time ever. 578 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,360 Bring on the Premiership! 579 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,120 I'll get this in. 580 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,400 Split up with my ex 581 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,040 about three years ago now. 582 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:21,320 We get on quite well. 583 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,000 Duvet on... 584 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,600 I started getting the brown letters through the door, HMRC, 585 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,680 and it was a big shock to the system, 586 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,920 and I kind of took it onboard myself. 587 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,280 Shut myself off. 588 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,000 To have any successful relationship, communication's key, 589 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,800 and I kind of destroyed that, really. 590 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:55,400 This is the one. 591 00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:01,600 That was the first 592 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,280 Premier League game I played. 593 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,680 Away to Man United. 594 00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:13,280 I can tell people that 595 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,440 I outran Henry and Vieira. 596 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:16,960 I don't think I did, 597 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,160 but it looks like I did! 598 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:19,520 HE LAUGHS 599 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:22,400 Good times. 600 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,200 Yeah. 601 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,520 The Premier League signing here. 602 00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:32,920 It's always a good thing. 603 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,960 I've been painting and decorating with my mate. 604 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,120 I wish I would have just enjoyed the money more. 605 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,240 The sad thing is, when I'm at my happiest is when I've had a drink... 606 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,480 ..cos you kind of forget about it. 607 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,560 But then when I wake up the next day, 608 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:57,960 that's when I'm at my worst. 609 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,960 I literally want to kill myself the next day. That's how I feel. 610 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,840 That's why I love fishing. It just gets me away. 611 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,200 - COMMENTATOR ECHOES: - Davis... 612 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,360 Oh, what a finish! 613 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,960 I used to be the life and soul. 614 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,800 Now stands the clock at five to three, 615 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,680 and once more, there's football here to see. 616 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,160 Carl Bradshaw with the long throw. 617 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:38,680 Cork waiting on the edge of 618 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,160 the six-yard area. 619 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,560 And Deane scores! 620 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,120 I go over to see my parents every week 621 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,200 and I come through the door, my mum, 622 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,000 she treats me like a little kid still, you know? 623 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,760 Yeah, we're happy to know that, you know, he's a footballer 624 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,680 and his name be in the papers 625 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,000 and sometimes on television. 626 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,720 You know, it makes us feel happy. 627 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,000 To be able to say, 628 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,120 "Mum, Daddy, I'm going to help you," 629 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,760 those things mean more to me 630 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,880 than scoring the first goal. 631 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,120 I left Sheffield United 632 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,760 and it was Howard Wilkinson who signed me at Leeds. 633 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:34,840 - ARCHIVE: - At Elland Road, 634 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,720 Howard Wilkinson is always in demand. 635 00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:39,120 There is no hotter property than the Leeds United manager. 636 00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:43,440 He was up there with a lot of the top managers 637 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,480 across Europe at the time. 638 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,000 It seemed like a match made in heaven, really. 639 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,080 Here is Brolin. Chipped in... 640 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:54,280 And it's there! 641 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,480 Football was an opportunity to dream. 642 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,120 - Go this way. - Go! - Come on. 643 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,080 Fast as you can, stand upright, come on. 644 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:07,600 My dad had said, 645 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,040 having your own house, 646 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:13,440 having no debt, if there's one thing that you can have, 647 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,720 nobody can tell you what to do in your own house, type thing. 648 00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:19,240 So that was always at the back of my mind. 649 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,840 I bought my first house when I was 20. 650 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,880 I had a tenant in there. 651 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,360 I was doing good. 652 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,280 That's Michael Thomas's wedding, in the Bahamas. 653 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:38,960 There's Mickey. 654 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,520 There's me, on Mickey's shoulder. 655 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:45,800 And there's McKee. 656 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,960 Now, that's somebody who is 657 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,640 quite happy to observe 658 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,320 and look for the opportunities. 659 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,760 As soon as I met McKee, it felt quite invasive because he says, 660 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,600 "Right, what are you earning? What have you got?" 661 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,240 And then he came back and he says, "Right, OK, well, 662 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:14,520 "probably a good idea to sell your house." 663 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:17,600 If I'm ashamed to say, 664 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,960 I just kind of thought that they knew better than me. 665 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,080 They knew every penny that we had 666 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,840 and they were going to 667 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,240 invest it for us. 668 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,640 Monte Resina is this block of ten flats in Spain. 669 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,760 Nothing was as it really seemed. 670 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:49,560 Four of the 11 end up buying 671 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,520 apartments in Monte Resina. 672 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,800 They pay over 600,000 euros for each one. 673 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,160 Yeah, I went out and played golf with McKee out there. 674 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,200 They brought it to me and the other lads 675 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,640 like it was a very exclusive development... 676 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,680 ..that was just too good to miss. 677 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,640 Going back to what my dad had said, 678 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:40,480 property, you know, it gave me that assurance of safety. 679 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,920 McKee and McMenamin owned the apartments 680 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,120 and instructed a Spanish company called Ogreda to manage them. 681 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,400 Ogreda's Director was Dawn Yates. 682 00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:57,360 You can see in emails between Kingsbridge and their law firm 683 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,160 that it was Kingsbridge who was actually running Ogreda... 684 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,040 ..and Dawn Yates was Dave McKee's wife. 685 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,760 I mean, talk about conflicts of interest! 686 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,640 McKee and McMenamin 687 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,600 set the apartment prices 688 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,920 and then advised their clients to buy them. 689 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,040 These prices were overinflated... 690 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,880 ..as an independent valuation later showed. 691 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,080 Whether it's incompetence, whether it's stupidity, 692 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,000 whether it's straightforward greed, 693 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,080 the end result of that 694 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,680 extraordinary algorithm of forces 695 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,720 is the players lose their money. 696 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,640 It's the hurt, the shame... 697 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:51,720 ..the humiliation. 698 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,800 You have a group of people who just want to get on with their lives, 699 00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,280 but feel trapped. 700 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,320 LAUGHTER 701 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,040 Happy days! 702 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,080 You can be having a good time, 703 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,920 and then your mind will just flip to... 704 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,080 HE CLICKS HIS FINGERS 705 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,400 "..Oh, but don't get too carried away, 706 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,080 "because don't forget that this is hanging over you." 707 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,840 When I think about losing my dad... 708 00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:27,760 ..when I think about the time 709 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,080 leading up to where I lost my mum, 710 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,640 my mum used to say to me, "Brian, what's wrong with you? 711 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,920 "I can tell that you're not in the room." 712 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:39,960 - COMMENTATOR: - And he scores! 713 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,160 My mind was elsewhere. 714 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,400 And now, that time's gone, and she's gone. 715 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,960 And, um... 716 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,160 It would have broken their hearts to know the full extent 717 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:13,760 of what had happened. 718 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,200 How do you know, though, that Kingsbridge didn't just make 719 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,840 an innocent mistake, that they genuinely thought 720 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,240 all of this was great stuff and would work? 721 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:27,800 How would you know that it wasn't? 722 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,280 I think every professional adviser makes mistakes, 723 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:37,800 but the volume of, and the consistency of these complex, 724 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,600 high-risk, unregulated investments 725 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,880 that were just totally unsuitable for young, naive kind of... 726 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,560 you know, financially inexperienced footballers. 727 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,640 And then when you start seeing investments where the advisory firm 728 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,800 themselves have got an interest in the projects, 729 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,440 or they're involved somehow, 730 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,360 um, that's not a mistake. 731 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,760 I first got involved when an ex-player came up to me and said, 732 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,440 was I aware that 733 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,200 hundreds, if not thousands of people 734 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,040 had been affected by very serious financial 735 00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,600 abuse and malpractice? 736 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:01,880 Hi, everyone. 737 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,960 - Hi, Andy. - Andy, all right? - Hi, Andy. 738 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,760 It took me back to one of the first jobs I ever had, 739 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,840 which was working in football in the 1990s. 740 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,080 I was working on the Government's football taskforce. 741 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,720 - It's really just an update. - Yeah. 742 00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:20,880 To bring you up to speed with where we are and, if we can, 743 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,880 to just draw on your advice... 744 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:28,280 There were a huge number of vested interests swirling round the game. 745 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,400 So I kind of, you know, pieced together what I knew 746 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,440 and felt back then, and I realised that, yeah, there was something 747 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,320 seriously untoward here. 748 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:40,240 We know there are many other people who don't have the same profile, 749 00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:41,880 who go through exactly the same. 750 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,560 I think you're kind of speaking for thousands of others 751 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:47,640 whose voices don't get heard. 752 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,240 Fighting this kind of injustice 753 00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:52,400 is a really difficult thing to do. 754 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,840 So I referred this matter to the City of London Police 755 00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,960 and asked them to open an investigation. 756 00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:02,360 Great to see you all. Keep fighting. 757 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,240 - Good seeing you. - Keep fighting. 758 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,040 January the 9th, 2018. 759 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,040 That's when the City of London Police 760 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:14,400 commenced their investigation. 761 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,280 {\an8}They were the global lead on fraud investigation. 762 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,360 We thought, "Utopia". 763 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,240 {\an8}As the national police lead for fraud and economic crime 764 00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:29,600 {\an8}at the time, I got the phone call 765 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,400 {\an8}and then started making my own enquiries. 766 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,080 It appeared to me to be 767 00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,120 the biggest fraud that I'd seen in football. 768 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,600 A decision was made that we were going to launch a full-scale 769 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,080 investigation, based on the review. 770 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,440 What we saw were the main suspects in the case, 771 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,480 the directors of Kingsbridge Asset Management. 772 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,520 It's going to take a major investigation to work this one. 773 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:17,200 I found people who had worked at Kingsbridge, a very good witness... 774 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,000 ..and I asked him about how it worked. 775 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,520 The investments we went into had the highest commission. 776 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:35,480 {\an8}I remember very early on, he said, 777 00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,440 {\an8}"Oh, yes, and we just routinely forged documents." 778 00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,200 I was a bit shocked! 779 00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,240 There are two types of forgery 780 00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:49,680 that I have seen evidenced. The first is, 781 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,520 "I've signed it, but I haven't got a clue 782 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,440 "what it is that I have agreed to." 783 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,360 The signing of documents... 784 00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,560 ..it became easy for them. 785 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,560 They'd turn up at your house or hotel. 786 00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,240 You know, you'd have half an hour before you had to eat 787 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:16,680 or have a team meeting. 788 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,880 And you'd go through the conversation about 789 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,000 what investment you might be doing next. 790 00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,040 At the end of the meeting, there'd be, say, three, six, eight 791 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,640 {\an8}documents that needed signing. 792 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:35,120 {\an8}And they'd be stacked, 793 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,920 {\an8}so you could just sign them 794 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:39,480 on top of each other. 795 00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:43,560 "Yeah, no problem." 796 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,320 People ask, "Why are you stupid enough to sign?", 797 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,360 but that isn't the right question. 798 00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,800 You sign because your trusted adviser says, 799 00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,280 "We're doing this. Sign here." 800 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,400 It is forgery because 801 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,920 the signature is procured 802 00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,440 to something you do not understand. 803 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:19,280 The second type is what everybody would describe as forgery. 804 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,480 "I know nothing about the document, but my signature is on it," 805 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,800 and that's because somebody else has signed it. 806 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,680 I went to see one footballer and I went through all his papers 807 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,800 with him, and he kept going, 808 00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,760 "I didn't know I had that bank account." 809 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:35,520 And they went, "What? That bank account? What? 810 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,800 "And this film... I didn't even know I was in that film scheme." 811 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,600 And he just didn't know. And I said, "Well, that's your signature." 812 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,160 And he said, "That's not my signature. 813 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,240 "That's not my signature." 814 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,080 So we took them to a handwriting expert. 815 00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:57,240 I was presented with documents bearing 27 signatures 816 00:53:57,240 --> 00:53:59,000 of a former footballer. 817 00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:04,320 Some signatures appeared different to the naked eye. 818 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,720 By that, I mean that the person who has written them made no attempt 819 00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:13,880 to simulate the appearance of the signature. 820 00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:21,360 Once they had an original signature for somebody, 821 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,080 they would go to the window, 822 00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:24,760 they would hold that up onto the window, 823 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,920 they'd put the new document on top, 824 00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:29,320 trace over it... 825 00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:33,360 ..and that was how the forgeries were done. 826 00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:36,800 It was shocking. 827 00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,360 In my opinion, all 27 828 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,680 of the questioned signatures were not 829 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:53,880 original signatures, produced by the individual in question. 830 00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:58,680 27 out of the 27 signatures, there was evidence of forgery. 831 00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:03,360 Not that some of them are forged. Every single one. 832 00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:11,520 I was also presented with 833 00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,200 three documents 834 00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,320 pertaining to Rod and Rachel Wallace. 835 00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:26,120 Yeah. 836 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,040 So that's what that was. 837 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:30,360 My signature. 838 00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,840 - There's yours. - That is nothing like mine whatsoever. 839 00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:43,160 And look at yours. Yeah, they've written it exactly the same. 840 00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,280 - Yeah. - Just a few more squiggles. 841 00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,320 - This... - It's criminal. 842 00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,440 - No-one's checked it. - It's criminal. 843 00:55:56,040 --> 00:56:00,320 When I compared the two questioned signatures in the name 844 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,640 Rachel Wallace, I was able to conclude, very strong evidence, 845 00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:06,880 that they were not produced by her. 846 00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,000 That's the original. 847 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,600 That's supposed to be yours. 848 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,400 How do you even get away with that? 849 00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:16,400 - Look. - Mm. 850 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,800 And also, I found strong evidence 851 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,640 that they were not genuine signatures written by Rod Wallace. 852 00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,880 - That's your real one. - Mm. - That's the fake one. - Yeah. 853 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,680 This is a long-term manipulation 854 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:37,080 of someone who's going to earn 855 00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,360 lots of money for a ten or 15-year period. 856 00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,000 The guys were completely steam-rollered, in my opinion. 857 00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,640 There were maybe six investments... 858 00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,440 ..that we were looking to prove 859 00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,280 that they were fraudulent by nature, 860 00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:33,840 from the very onset... 861 00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:36,960 ..through to the eventual 862 00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,040 collapse of that scheme. 863 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,120 I formed the opinion, with the team, that it was necessary to... 864 00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:52,480 ..make arrests. 865 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,360 Two men from the East Midlands have been arrested 866 00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,360 as part of a national investigation into fraud. 867 00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,000 City of London Police are looking 868 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,400 into a financial advice firm, 869 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,800 Kingsbridge Asset Management. 870 00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:06,680 That was a very emotional moment 871 00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,040 for the group. 872 00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:12,040 It's alleged numerous victims suffered significant losses. 873 00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:16,640 Firstly, devastation that on hearing the words that this had happened 874 00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:20,200 to them, but also, a sense of relief 875 00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,000 that somebody was taking it seriously. 876 00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:26,760 Now, we've been abused, we've been cheated, 877 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,480 we've been defrauded, we've been manipulated. 878 00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:36,480 Hopefully, with the help of different authorities and experts, 879 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,880 we can get to the end of this and put it to bed. 880 00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,040 We were absolutely moving forward, 881 00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,680 and it was just a question of when 882 00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:46,360 we're going to be in court. 883 00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,040 I have, throughout my career, 884 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,520 done heavy fraud. 885 00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:00,160 I've never seen a case so big. 886 00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,920 It is enormous. 887 00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,320 The police need to get their investigation finished 888 00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,680 and we need to expose this fraud. 889 00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,120 Can I say fraud, or do I have to say alleged fraud? 890 00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,760 But we have to expose it, because there's a generation 891 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,600 of footballers out there who have been ruined. 892 00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,680 I want them found guilty and I want them put in jail. 893 00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,480 I can't let this thing go. 894 00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:33,440 And, you know, I need to see justice. 895 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,840 Fraud is complicated. 896 00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,680 It's a jigsaw. You piece it together 897 00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,120 one account, one document at a time. 898 00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,200 End of February 2019... 899 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:54,640 ..I left policing. 900 00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:58,760 Around about a year later or so... 901 01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,040 ..the case was concluded. 902 01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:10,440 Well... 903 01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:17,600 ..I've just received some shit news today 904 01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,640 from City of London Police, 905 01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:21,360 that there's not enough evidence 906 01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,360 to go forward to prosecute. 907 01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:28,240 Incompetence, in my opinion. 908 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,760 Angry, disgusted. 909 01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:32,960 Unbelievable. 910 01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,000 Two years, they've been at it, 911 01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,760 and they've just dropped it through a lack of evidence. 912 01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,160 What more do they need? 913 01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,560 "The City of London Police have made the decision 914 01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:47,200 "that there is insufficient evidence to support a realistic 915 01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,000 "prospect of conviction." 916 01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,760 "This is not to suggest that the victim accounts are not believed, 917 01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,360 "just that the material we have reviewed does not meet 918 01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:00,640 "the requirements for a successful prosecution. 919 01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,800 "To be clear, the allegation of crime 920 01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,160 "remains on our crime management system, 921 01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:11,880 "and each of the 11 are identified as a victim on that crime." 922 01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:18,120 Insufficient evidence to support a realistic prospect of conviction 923 01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:22,520 means it has failed what's called the evidential test. 924 01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,960 It's very mixed messaging because on the one hand, 925 01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,360 it's sort of saying there's insufficient evidence, 926 01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:36,520 but they're not saying you are not victims of crime. 927 01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:37,600 That's very clear. 928 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,920 So, you know, as far as they're concerned, they are victims. 929 01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,840 Oh, this... Oh, fucking hell. 930 01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:58,200 I just hope this doesn't drag me down again in depression. 931 01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:04,160 I'm just angry that these people... 932 01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:09,320 ..get away with it... 933 01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:12,640 ..left, right and centre. 934 01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,040 I'm just pissed. 935 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,000 Pissed, pissed, pissed. 936 01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:25,800 That's enough. 937 01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,000 The police decided that they didn't 938 01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:50,880 have enough evidence to charge 939 01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,040 the people that had been arrested, but they did make it very clear 940 01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:58,160 to the V11 that they considered that they were victims of crime. 941 01:02:58,160 --> 01:02:59,880 The players have been left in 942 01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:01,680 a really difficult position. 943 01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,240 The HMRC are saying, well, 944 01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:07,840 irrespective of the fact that 945 01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,880 you're a victim of crime, your name is attached to 946 01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,040 that very investment, and so you're the person 947 01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:15,520 we're going to go after for the tax that's owed. 948 01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:22,040 So what are we, really? 949 01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:25,400 {\an8}It's frustrating. It's hard to take. 950 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,280 {\an8}It's tiring. Um... 951 01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,000 You know, it's upsetting. 952 01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:32,760 You can't live like that. 953 01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,080 The financial abuse, 954 01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:38,960 that's one trauma. 955 01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:40,880 They think, "Was it my fault? 956 01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:44,400 {\an8}"It's not great, but I can probably survive that. 957 01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:47,320 "But then what happens to me 958 01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:48,680 "is then I discover that 959 01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:51,320 "in actual fact, I now owe tax." 960 01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,040 One on top of the other, 961 01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:55,720 that is the stuff that takes people to the edge. 962 01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:57,880 It doesn't matter who you are within that situation, 963 01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:59,760 it will take everybody to the edge. 964 01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,520 The way HMRC have treated the V11 965 01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:10,840 was initially indefensible. 966 01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:17,240 The culture was, chase them and make them pay. 967 01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:21,320 Bankruptcy petitions on Christmas Eve. 968 01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:26,760 No state organisation should treat an individual citizen like that. 969 01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:32,240 That had the most unhappy effects. 970 01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,600 If I talk about the former player 971 01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:41,400 that we nearly lost... 972 01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,640 ..um, I mean, it's even... 973 01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,960 I find it even really difficult to talk about now, 974 01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,560 but he rang to say 975 01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:53,440 he'd purchased a rope. 976 01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:02,040 He said he was taking his own life, to save his family from HMRC. 977 01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:08,600 He thought that if he took his own life, the liabilities would go away. 978 01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,320 Unfortunately, they wouldn't have gone away. 979 01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,160 His wife would have inherited them. 980 01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,000 I think it's that reason that he didn't take his life. 981 01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:26,880 We need to collect tax. 982 01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,800 It needs to be done, we need all to pay tax. 983 01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:31,960 But this system is relentless. 984 01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,320 We can make public interest decisions. 985 01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,240 Actually, is it in the public interest 986 01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,440 for a person to kill themselves over a tax bill? 987 01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:45,040 I can't see that it is. 988 01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:55,600 Carly's aim now is to change the law in this country, to protect 989 01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,080 the victims of investment fraud from 990 01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:00,600 very serious tax charges. 991 01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,840 Because there are other people out there who are victims of crime, 992 01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:10,440 victims of fraud, who are battling life-changing tax bills. 993 01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,160 There's a room we've been given to meet the MP, so we'll meet 994 01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,360 {\an8}Sean, Rod and Mickey first, at 10:00. 995 01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:24,360 Meet the MPs who've supported us. 996 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,120 There are many Members of Parliament 997 01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:31,480 who believe that the country 998 01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,520 doesn't handle these issues properly 999 01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:35,320 and doesn't support victims properly. 1000 01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:43,160 There's clearly an overwhelming need for a law change. 1001 01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:47,640 Constituent MPs created an All-Party Parliamentary Group 1002 01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:50,280 for investment fraud. 1003 01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:52,840 This will benefit not just footballers, 1004 01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,360 it will benefit everybody in society. 1005 01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:03,080 - The investigator extraordinaire. - I love it. Yeah, I love it. 1006 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:10,560 - When you think about HMRC, you think of the anger. - The letters. 1007 01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:14,640 {\an8}The letters, the sleepless nights, sleepless nights. 1008 01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:18,080 {\an8}You know, sometimes life-threatening. 1009 01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,160 {\an8}It is life-threatening, sometimes. You think about 1010 01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,160 the dark side all the time. 1011 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:23,840 Is it going to take one of us... 1012 01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:27,720 I'm going to say, is it going to take one of us to commit suicide, 1013 01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,440 {\an8}for people to stand up and realise that this is actually a serious 1014 01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:33,840 {\an8}problem? And people who are not footballers that get defrauded, 1015 01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:36,720 who can't afford anything, and they're out on the street. 1016 01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,560 I was scared to tell anyone. I thought it was just my own fault. 1017 01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:42,480 I was being naive, trusted the wrong people. 1018 01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,520 And it was embarrassing, to be fair. 1019 01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:46,320 But it's the truth. 1020 01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:48,440 We can't just sit by any longer, 1021 01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:50,080 you know, being in this position 1022 01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:53,320 and just allow it to kind of carry on. 1023 01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:57,440 We need to speak up and tell people about what's happened to us. 1024 01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:00,200 The same thing can happen to anybody. 1025 01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:03,160 {\an8}Just that these guys have got a bit more public profile, 1026 01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,320 {\an8}and they may have had a little bit more money than the ordinary person 1027 01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,600 {\an8}to invest, but the losses are the same. 1028 01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:09,920 The risks are the same. 1029 01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:12,600 Losing your house, losing your pension. 1030 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:18,440 Within the group, there's wildly different financial situations. 1031 01:08:20,480 --> 01:08:23,840 At the sharp end, you've got members of the group who are, 1032 01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:26,160 you know, facing complete and utter wipe-out, 1033 01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:28,800 who've lost virtually everything. 1034 01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,320 In the middle, you've got people who've earned a good living. 1035 01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:36,040 They have had significant losses, but they're still all right. 1036 01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,560 But it's the tax aspect 1037 01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:40,760 that is causing extreme, 1038 01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,720 life-changing issues. 1039 01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:45,440 And then we've got members of the group who've had significant 1040 01:08:45,440 --> 01:08:48,440 financial losses, but have very small tax bills 1041 01:08:48,440 --> 01:08:50,000 that they could pay tomorrow, 1042 01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:53,320 but they are doing this for the other members of the group 1043 01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:55,640 because they feel it's inherently wrong, 1044 01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:57,600 and for wider society. 1045 01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:13,880 Kingsbridge floated as Kingsbridge Holdings in 2000... 1046 01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:19,120 ..and they were the only game in town, really. 1047 01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:27,040 Some of the biggest names in football were shareholders, 1048 01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:28,240 including Howard Wilkinson. 1049 01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:31,040 Sergeant Wilko, Howard Wilkinson! 1050 01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:33,800 Howard Wilkinson, at Leeds, manages 1051 01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,400 Rod Wallace and Brian Deane. 1052 01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:39,160 - COMMENTATOR: - Chance here for Deane. Oh, it's there! 1053 01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:42,400 Also, Howard Wilkinson was the chairman of 1054 01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:45,720 the League Managers Association and he was a very powerful figure. 1055 01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:49,080 You know, he was England manager and manager of Leeds, 1056 01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:52,360 and a big noise in the League Managers Association. 1057 01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:56,240 He'd been chairman since its formation in 1992. 1058 01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:00,200 So it was hugely important for Kingsbridge to maintain 1059 01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:03,520 their relationship with him, because if the managers 1060 01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:05,920 began to distance themselves from Kingsbridge, 1061 01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:08,400 the players would most likely do the same. 1062 01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:12,920 We were given 1063 01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:16,560 the "opportunity" to buy shares, 1064 01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:21,800 depending on who your adviser was. Mine was David McKee. 1065 01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:26,360 He said, "Look, these are going to do very well and it'll be good 1066 01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:29,400 "to have these in your portfolio as well." 1067 01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:34,120 Here's my first purchase of shares ever. 1068 01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:37,960 {\an8}I was just told that they'd just bombed. 1069 01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:40,440 {\an8}You know, just went. 1070 01:10:40,440 --> 01:10:42,080 {\an8}Yeah, it's just gone. 1071 01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,480 Did you receive any compensation? 1072 01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:50,320 - What do you mean? - Did Kingsbridge 1073 01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:53,720 pay you any money for the fact that you had lost money? 1074 01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:54,960 No! 1075 01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:56,440 Why would they? 1076 01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:00,360 Part of the documents, the evidence that we've got, 1077 01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,280 is this letter that was passed on to you. 1078 01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,600 It's for a Mr H Wilkinson. 1079 01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,000 It's Dave McKee, Director. 1080 01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:20,360 "In recognition of the fact that you, as chairman of the LMA, 1081 01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:23,920 "after consultation with me, 1082 01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:25,680 "held the majority of your shares 1083 01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:30,480 "in Kingsbridge Holdings at a time when you could have taken 1084 01:11:30,480 --> 01:11:34,840 "a high profit, and subsequently, during a falling market, 1085 01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:36,600 "we have agreed to pay you 1086 01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:42,760 "£2,033.33 per month for four years. 1087 01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:45,200 "It is recognised that the decision 1088 01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:47,720 "not to sell was made solely on 1089 01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:51,280 "the best interests of the LMA's business partnership 1090 01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,280 "with Kingsbridge Holdings. 1091 01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:56,560 "I look forward to our meeting." 1092 01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,280 We weren't paid that. We never got anything. 1093 01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,240 The way they've done it is just wrong. 1094 01:12:06,440 --> 01:12:10,600 Dave McKee was trying to just keep him sweet, 1095 01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,120 as he was the chairman of the LMA. 1096 01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:16,360 That's what it looks like. 1097 01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,800 - BRIAN DEANE: - We talk about power and how it's wielded. 1098 01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:29,360 Back in those days, players 1099 01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,400 were hugely influenced by managers. 1100 01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:40,160 It's just sinking in now and I'm getting pretty pissed off. 1101 01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:42,920 We were inconsequential. 1102 01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:48,440 If money and all the rest of it is their god, 1103 01:12:48,440 --> 01:12:51,040 then let them have it. I just want to be happy. 1104 01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:54,560 And that's the same for Rod. That's the same for 1105 01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:56,720 a lot of the other guys. We just want peace. 1106 01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,720 Can I get a return to Westminster? 1107 01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:36,680 Is that what it is? I never know. 1108 01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:40,400 You've got this image of footballers, 1109 01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:42,920 and there's a process of envy that sits inside that. 1110 01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:45,280 So rather than kind of saying, "Actually, there's these guys 1111 01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,600 "going through this terrible, awful time," 1112 01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:51,960 what we get, "Oh, well, actually, you're just footballers. 1113 01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:54,520 "It doesn't matter. You've got money. Don't worry about it." 1114 01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:56,000 Thank you. 1115 01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:58,000 Actually, yes, this matters. 1116 01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:07,400 You want someone to make it go away with a magic wand. 1117 01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,600 All these issues about what you're going to do next... 1118 01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:17,240 ..makes you really struggle to sleep. 1119 01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:24,600 So, I escaped from that 1120 01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,240 with chemicals. 1121 01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:32,880 Cannabis, cocaine. 1122 01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:35,960 Started gambling. 1123 01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:40,560 Chasing the money I'd lost, because it was a domino effect, 1124 01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:45,200 which then impacted me to be even in a darker place. 1125 01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:49,840 Addiction, depression, 1126 01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:52,360 anxiety, isolation. 1127 01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:53,960 All those things come to anybody 1128 01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,520 when you're going through something so enormous. 1129 01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:03,560 It's the shame, embarrassment and guilt 1130 01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:07,640 of getting yourself in a position that you think you're better than. 1131 01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,240 When we're talking about trauma, what we're really talking about 1132 01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:19,040 is an experience which turns my world inside out. 1133 01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:24,240 The normality that I knew and the way the world 1134 01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:26,880 that I thought worked suddenly doesn't. 1135 01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:30,280 That's post-traumatic stress disorder. 1136 01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:37,200 I think for them, it's absolutely vital, absolutely vital 1137 01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:38,720 that they're part of this group. 1138 01:15:40,440 --> 01:15:42,800 Our energy, as a whole, 1139 01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:45,240 is much greater than just 11 individual people. 1140 01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:49,760 "I'm not alone." 1141 01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:51,240 That bit matters. 1142 01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:02,960 Well, we're off for a meeting with HMRC up in London. 1143 01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:04,800 A little bit apprehensive, to be honest. 1144 01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:09,880 Try and explain our situation some more and give them a reality 1145 01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:13,600 on the way their actions and their behaviours impact us. 1146 01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:20,320 I just hope I represent the lads well. 1147 01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:22,000 That's all I can do, really. 1148 01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:34,960 - Hiya, you all right? - Back again! 1149 01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,880 - Long time, that, wasn't it? - It's like Groundhog Day. - Yeah. 1150 01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:40,680 You ready for this? 1151 01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:42,880 - Ready to fire up. - I've not written nothing down. 1152 01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:44,400 Just fire in. 1153 01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,960 Dealing with HMRC, 1154 01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:49,600 you just can't move on. 1155 01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:56,280 The cyclical nature of it has caused a horrendous amount of trauma. 1156 01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:01,680 There were no real 1157 01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:05,520 satisfactory conclusions. It's still there. 1158 01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:07,920 I just hope that they can put it to the back of their mind 1159 01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:10,680 for the festive period. But we're, you know, unfortunately, 1160 01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:13,400 we've got to deal with it as soon as Christmas is over. 1161 01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:17,960 We get to a point where we feel that we're making progress, 1162 01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:23,080 they start to look at the evidence, and then they'll change position. 1163 01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:27,400 Extremely aggressive behaviour. 1164 01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,960 Bailiffs at the door, potentially. 1165 01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:32,280 Not know whether you're having to pay, one minute, 1166 01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:34,120 next minute, you are. 1167 01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:35,920 And that has just happened again. 1168 01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:46,360 PHONE CONNECTION TONE 1169 01:17:51,440 --> 01:17:55,280 - Hi, everybody. Hi. - Sean on? - Sean's on. Sean's on. 1170 01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:59,040 Sorry, Sean. Haven't got my glasses on, Sean, sorry. 1171 01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:00,360 Rod, um... 1172 01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:03,960 {\an8}Yeah. I'm not the bearer of good news, I'm afraid. 1173 01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:06,920 So we've had a letter from HMRC 1174 01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:08,640 to say that they'd be looking to 1175 01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,560 hand this over to debt management. 1176 01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:13,040 This is potentially putting a group 1177 01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,240 {\an8}of victims to bankruptcy or similar, 1178 01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:18,040 {\an8}where there is no way back. 1179 01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:20,520 They're trying to scare you into panicking into making 1180 01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:22,640 rash decisions and giving them what you can, 1181 01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:26,520 {\an8}- ultimately. - The most important thing is that we sort of fight back 1182 01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,080 and put a good strategy in place. 1183 01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:30,640 I'm confident that, 1184 01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,600 {\an8}long-term, we'll be able to change the law. 1185 01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:36,400 The question is, can we kick this into the long grass 1186 01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:40,040 for long enough to get this properly debated and to get the MPs 1187 01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:42,840 behind it, and to get the law change? 1188 01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:45,480 One of the reasons I'm still in a position 1189 01:18:45,480 --> 01:18:47,760 where I can even sit here and talk to you in a very 1190 01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:52,480 {\an8}compos-mentis way is that you guys have supported me 1191 01:18:52,480 --> 01:18:54,080 {\an8}and been there, and got us to this. 1192 01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:57,320 To go off on our own now and try and find a resolution 1193 01:18:57,320 --> 01:19:00,480 - on our own, I think will fail. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. 1194 01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:04,000 That's the strength, isn't it, of all of us? 1195 01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:05,880 {\an8}Comes back to what we did as players. 1196 01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:09,280 {\an8}You know, it was a team, you know? 1197 01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:11,840 And that's where we've gained that strength from. 1198 01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:17,200 HMRC trying to pursue the victims, without question, 1199 01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:21,360 that has caused more pain than the actual alleged fraud itself 1200 01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:22,720 and the financial losses. 1201 01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:25,800 I don't want to see another family go through this. 1202 01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:29,000 Not the best news, but, you know, we fight on. 1203 01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:31,320 - Absolutely. - Thank you to everyone as well. 1204 01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:33,520 Yeah, thank you. 1205 01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:35,520 It's amazing what you guys are doing, all of you. 1206 01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:36,920 Thank you. 1207 01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:38,280 Take care, everybody. 1208 01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:42,600 I'm worried about a couple of members of the team 1209 01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,400 because they dropped off the call and were messaging me, 1210 01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:48,760 and I felt really worried. 1211 01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:51,640 All the guys deal with it differently... 1212 01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:56,160 ..but for Sean, he goes off-grid. 1213 01:19:58,480 --> 01:20:00,160 I don't think he can cope with it. 1214 01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:06,840 On the group, we had a Zoom call 1215 01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:09,080 and found out that HMRC 1216 01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:11,000 are still coming after us. 1217 01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:15,760 They're still, "No, we want our money, we want our money. 1218 01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:17,760 "We don't care what's happened. 1219 01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:20,840 "We want our money." 1220 01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:25,840 So, we could get letters through the door any day now. 1221 01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,960 330-odd thousand, they're saying I owe them. 1222 01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:33,520 The interest is going up. 1223 01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:42,600 It just seems that HMRC have just got no, no understanding 1224 01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:46,280 of what this is doing to people and people's lives. 1225 01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:50,920 {\an8}Oh, it's gone too high. It's gone too high. 1226 01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:55,600 {\an8}If we can be the group that gets this law changed... 1227 01:20:57,360 --> 01:21:00,480 ..loads of people can benefit from it. 1228 01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:13,560 Perfect. 1229 01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:16,040 There's never really been money in my family. 1230 01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:18,920 My mum was a dinner lady. 1231 01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:20,640 My old man was a butcher. 1232 01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:28,640 Oh, wow. It's whenever I talk about my dad... 1233 01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:38,360 The worst thing is my old man liked my old financial adviser. 1234 01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:41,760 He liked him. And my dad was a good judge of character, 1235 01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:45,280 so he kind of pulled the wool over his eyes as well. 1236 01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:47,720 I don't even think I cried at my dad's funeral. 1237 01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:56,360 I haven't told anyone, really. 1238 01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:04,640 I don't want to be saying all this and then there's no change. 1239 01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:13,280 That would be even worse. That'd feel like I'm losing again. 1240 01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:37,480 COMMENTATOR: Thomas charging through the midfield. 1241 01:22:37,480 --> 01:22:40,400 Thomas! It's up for grabs now. 1242 01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:43,320 Thomas, right at the end! 1243 01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:49,280 I have to speak out. 1244 01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:53,680 The more people speak up about it, 1245 01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:55,880 then we can change the law. 1246 01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:05,160 It's not just me, a sportsman, 1247 01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:09,680 but someone who worked in the Civil Service, 1248 01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:12,520 to a cleaner who's working in the hospitals. 1249 01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:14,160 They're all the same. 1250 01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:16,000 Fraud doesn't care what you are. 1251 01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:19,360 And we're trying to protect everybody, really. 1252 01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:30,400 I'm Caroline Nokes. I'm one of the co-chairs of 1253 01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:32,720 the APPG on Investment Fraud. 1254 01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:38,360 The whole issue crossed my door when one of my constituents was impacted, 1255 01:23:38,360 --> 01:23:40,280 {\an8}and the thing that struck me then 1256 01:23:40,280 --> 01:23:42,640 {\an8}was this was not a man who had set out 1257 01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:46,040 {\an8}in any way to defraud the taxman. 1258 01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:51,680 What we want ultimately to come up with is a report 1259 01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:54,400 that highlights the injustice, 1260 01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:56,000 that tells the personal stories 1261 01:23:56,000 --> 01:24:01,080 and makes a compelling case to HMRC and to Treasury ministers 1262 01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:04,400 that the people they're going after are the wrong targets. 1263 01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:10,440 Sorry. 1264 01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:10,440 HE CLEARS THROAT 1265 01:24:10,440 --> 01:24:14,360 I fluctuate from deep bouts of depression, sadness and anger. 1266 01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:16,040 I ask myself daily, "How is this happening?" 1267 01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:19,080 HMRC will probably enforce. 1268 01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:21,480 I have nothing to give them. 1269 01:24:21,480 --> 01:24:25,200 It's damaged me in ways that, um, 1270 01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:28,120 won't change until I'm no longer here. 1271 01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:33,280 I put a brave face on it, a good show, um... 1272 01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:37,360 ..but it's a constant fight when the door closes. 1273 01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:39,920 It's a horrible place to be, to be honest, 1274 01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:45,200 because the way I've been brought up, with integrity, 1275 01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:49,120 you don't know anything else than to be the way you are. 1276 01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:53,120 Obviously, I work in the football industry still. 1277 01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:57,000 I'm a mentor for the young players in Liverpool, 1278 01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:00,200 but I'm thinking, if I'm going to pass on advice to young players 1279 01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:02,760 with a ridiculous amount more money now, 1280 01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:04,680 how the hell is this going to... 1281 01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:06,800 It's going to keep on happening and happening and happening. 1282 01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:10,440 - Yeah. - So what is the point, if we can sort this out right now? 1283 01:25:10,440 --> 01:25:13,600 Has it changed the law? I just don't understand it. 1284 01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:16,080 I think that's one of the really important points. 1285 01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:22,080 Young lads, surrounded by sharks, who are going to want to take 1286 01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:25,240 advantage of them at every turn. We'll write up a report. 1287 01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:26,880 We'll go round the block again, 1288 01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:29,480 because you can't let it drop. 1289 01:25:30,400 --> 01:25:32,120 You just can't let it drop. 1290 01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:42,600 Due to them bastards from HMRC, I'm getting my house valued tomorrow, 1291 01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:46,200 which is mainly because of HMRC 1292 01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:49,240 enforcing tax liabilities. 1293 01:25:58,440 --> 01:26:01,000 You can wake up feeling angry 1294 01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:02,640 and remembering stuff. 1295 01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:09,520 Yes, you have bad days, and you think about, 1296 01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:11,760 "Oh, what about that? What about this?" 1297 01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:16,000 {\an8}So I'll just get up and run. 1298 01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:20,160 It clears your head. 1299 01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:27,360 Are you going to get a letter? 1300 01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:28,760 Are you going to get a phone call? 1301 01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:32,040 It's just the worry of that every day. 1302 01:26:34,480 --> 01:26:36,960 We want to help people. That's why we're doing this. 1303 01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:40,080 But deep down, it's hard. 1304 01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:45,880 I had to move. 1305 01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:49,200 The case was, yeah, we had to sell the house. 1306 01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:58,200 But I've said from day one, "I'm not paying it." 1307 01:26:59,160 --> 01:27:01,120 COMMENTATOR: Johnson gets the party going! 1308 01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:05,040 If then I need to go to jail... 1309 01:27:06,440 --> 01:27:08,080 ..I'll go to jail for it. 1310 01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,960 It is tough, talking about all of this... 1311 01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:34,040 ..but it needs to be said. 1312 01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:39,280 I live in Surrey. 1313 01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:43,880 It's been a good place to live, 1314 01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:48,480 but time...time, yeah, tells us that we have to move on now... 1315 01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:55,560 ..because of an eviction notice that we was given. 1316 01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:00,200 Nothing in the bank. 1317 01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:08,880 That's the whole crux of this, um, 1318 01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:10,160 problem that we've got now. 1319 01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:13,160 We won't have anywhere to live. 1320 01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:20,880 We're just, like, living day-by-day at the minute. 1321 01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:26,680 It's not possible to, like, have any sort of plans, going forward. 1322 01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:31,160 Apart from, the moment that we ever get the chance, 1323 01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:33,280 we'll be out of this country like a shot. 1324 01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:38,920 As a family, I've tried to protect them as much as I could. 1325 01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:43,160 Then there came a point where it was just like, I had to say something. 1326 01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:46,680 Um... 1327 01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:49,760 And since that moment, we've all... 1328 01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:52,720 We've all, uh... We've all stuck together, haven't we? 1329 01:28:54,920 --> 01:28:58,680 It's just...it's gone on for so long now that it's just... 1330 01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:00,960 - Yeah, like, you can't dwell on it. - Mm. 1331 01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:02,600 You have to, um... 1332 01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:07,200 ..put your focus on something else. 1333 01:29:07,200 --> 01:29:09,800 It's just trying to create, like, 1334 01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:13,200 good memories now, if possible. 1335 01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:17,520 It's going to be hard, 1336 01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:19,560 but I'm sure we'll be able to do it. 1337 01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:21,400 I just hope, um, 1338 01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:23,640 that the family do the same. 1339 01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:25,480 Rachel... Rachel does the same, 1340 01:29:25,480 --> 01:29:27,480 stays positive, rather than negative, 1341 01:29:27,480 --> 01:29:30,560 and then there's a chance that we can get through it. 1342 01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:35,520 Cos it has been difficult. 1343 01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:39,560 And it's not ending yet. 1344 01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:30,640 Since meeting with HMRC, 1345 01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:34,440 it's basically been backwards and forwards ever since. 1346 01:30:34,440 --> 01:30:36,520 It's legal technicalities, 1347 01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:41,480 whether the tax is rightfully due in law or not. 1348 01:30:41,480 --> 01:30:43,880 Those arguments continue. 1349 01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:45,440 We're marching for justice, 1350 01:30:45,440 --> 01:30:48,960 for the victims of financial crime. 1351 01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:52,880 Justice is a curious word. 1352 01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:57,080 Justice for one person might mean seeing somebody in prison 1353 01:30:57,080 --> 01:30:59,360 and being punished. 1354 01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:01,520 For others, it may mean something else. 1355 01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:05,560 It might mean actually just being able to move on with my life. 1356 01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:10,040 There are so many of us, 1357 01:31:10,040 --> 01:31:13,760 tens of thousands of people who are suffering. 1358 01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:16,000 - What do we want? - Justice! 1359 01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:17,680 - When do we want it? - Now! 1360 01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:19,680 - What do we want? - Justice! 1361 01:31:19,680 --> 01:31:21,400 - When do we want it? - Now! 1362 01:31:21,400 --> 01:31:23,840 To HM Treachery, it's that way. 1363 01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:25,880 - Thank you very much indeed. - Thank you. 1364 01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:33,240 Fighting for justice is a hard thing to do. 1365 01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:36,200 It does require people to be relentless. 1366 01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:40,440 It's something that will test people on every level, 1367 01:31:40,440 --> 01:31:43,000 when you feel so wronged 1368 01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:45,040 and, yet, you're in the wilderness, not being heard. 1369 01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:49,120 It's about getting the law changed. 1370 01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:51,200 I refuse to give up, 1371 01:31:51,200 --> 01:31:53,040 because it's not in my nature. 1372 01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:57,120 I wasn't brought up like that. 1373 01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:03,160 It's about trying to achieve reform 1374 01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:05,200 where it's obvious that there's failures. 1375 01:32:05,200 --> 01:32:09,800 For me, it's just trying to find a resolution that we can live with. 1376 01:32:11,080 --> 01:32:13,280 There's something that's really important about their story, 1377 01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:15,320 not just for them, but for all of us. 1378 01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:19,280 All the while we're still breathing, there's something we can do. 1379 01:32:19,280 --> 01:32:21,200 That's what matters. 1380 01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:24,240 - HM Treachery! - Shame on you! 1381 01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:27,200 - HM Treachery! - Shame on you! 1382 01:32:27,200 --> 01:32:30,280 - HM Treachery! - Shame on you! 1383 01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:55,760 If it wasn't for the group, 1384 01:32:55,760 --> 01:32:57,520 I don't know where I'd be now. 1385 01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:00,920 It's definitely saved lives. 1386 01:33:03,520 --> 01:33:08,640 You've got to keep trying to fight for justice, because otherwise, 1387 01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:11,800 you just give in and you lose everything you've got. 109058

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