All language subtitles for Storyville.S2025E01.Your.Fat.Friend.1080p.iP.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.HFR.H.264-RAWR_track3_[eng]

This programme contains
strong language

Just say fat.

Not "curvy", or "chubby",
or "chunky", "or fluffy",

or "more to love", or "big guy",
or "full-figured", or "big-boned",

or "queen-size", or "husky",
or "obese", or "overweight".

Just say fat.

The very first piece was called,
"A request from your fat friend."

I wrote this as an actual letter
to a friend.

I wanted her to understand the ways
in which her experience,

as a thin woman, differed from
my experiences as a fat woman.

And another friend proofread it to
make sure I wasn't being a jerk.

And he asked if I would be willing
to put it up online,

and I said, sure,
as long as we did it anonymously.

I don't want it tracked back to me.

I just sort of pulled the name,
Your Fat Friend, out of a hat.

And, like, 30,000 people read it
in about a week.

And I sort of figured out, oh,
people are willing to listen

to this. I should probably
write more things.

I need you to listen closely.

I need you to believe me
when I tell you what happens.

I'm a size 26.

Fat enough that some stores for
fat people don't carry my size.

Fat enough that some doctors
will refuse to see me.

Fat enough that getting on an
aeroplane makes my blood run cold,

because they might kick me off
without a refund for my ticket.

And then, I will have to explain
to my friends, job, family

why I can't make it on that trip.

When I talk about fat,
I'm not talking about feelings,

or self-esteem,
or body image issues.

I'm talking about the way that
individuals and institutions

treat people who look like me.

Every discussion about bodies
is about how to avoid

the horrible fate
of looking like me.

When you announce your New Year's
resolution to lose five,

ten, 25 pounds, you are saying
that you don't want your body

to end up like mine.

Your feelings are real
and true and valid,

and you should still not say them
to the fattest person you know.

Try to learn to love
the lush overgrowth of your body.

Let it grow wild and untamed
as a garden you loved as a child.

Love it for the way it sustains you,
keeps you warm,

goes to such lengths
not to let you get hurt.

I need less empathy,
and more solidarity.

Less pity, and more anger.

I need you to know that,
even with good intentions,

you can still do harm.

I need an ally.

When you ask me what I need,
and I tell you, I need you to try.

I was on the swim team growing up.

I used to be, like, a competitive
grade school, middle school...

Would go to, like, swim meets.

Oh, there she goes.

Go, Aubrey!

It makes me so happy to be
in the water and swimming.

Just, like, actually, the best.

Like, freedom.

So, do you swim now?

No. No.

There's just too... It's, like,
more work than it's worth.

The way that people look at you,
the way that people talk to you,

all of that kind of stuff, uh...

..makes it hard to feel unleashed
in that kind of way.

When I describe myself as fat,
my favourite and least favourite

reaction is people going,
"Sweetie, no, you are not.

"Don't say that about yourself."

And I'm like...!

Hey, guys. Have we met?

Because I think they think
I'm saying I'm...

..lazy, or stupid, or unlovable.

I don't feel any of those things.

I'm like, I just am fat, the end.

What are we going to do about it?
Not much to do.

Tried everything. Well, here we are.

I run a nonprofit that helps
people register to vote.

Before that, I spent nine or ten
years working on trans health care

and LGBT rights.

So, when people are, like,
"Well, you can't change the way

the world works," I'm like,
oh, you, for sure, can.

Fat activism is a way
of disrupting ideas

that we've held on to for so long.

It's about turning them
on their head.

My aim is to provoke people
to question the things

that they always thought were true.

I want them to change the way
that they treat the fat people

in their lives, and that starts
with recognising that all of

their judgments are based on
faulty and cruel ideas.

Anti-fatness is everywhere.

It's on every screen.

It's in so many conversations.

It's just the water we all swim in
every day.

The belief that someone can assess
your health simply by looking at you

is deeply ingrained in our society.

Fat is seen as unhealthy,
and it's our duty

to be as healthy as possible.

Many, many people believe
all of this without question,

despite all of the scientific
evidence to the contrary,

and they hate fat people for it.

As a fat person, most physical
spaces never anticipated your size,

or the weight of you,
or the breadth of you.

Theatre seats can be tough,
bus seats can be tough.

All around Portland,
there are these rental bikes,

and I'd love to ride one,
but I'm over the weight limit.

The biggest threat
to fat people's health

is often health care providers'
profound biases.

I was treated so poorly for so long
that I stopped seeing doctors

for about eight years.

Instead of just treating
what you came in for,

every visit turns into
a weight loss lecture.

You get on an exam table
which might not hold you.

The blood pressure cuff
doesn't fit your arm.

And then, the MRI machine
is too small.

In a moment of crisis,
you need the morning-after pill,

and you discover that
it's not guaranteed to be effective

over 155lb.

Many medications are never tested
on someone my size.

Nothing is made for us.

We are never expected.

I used to work to make change
in government

by talking to voters
and elected officials,

and now I make that change
through my writing.

When I was pregnant,
we found out you were a girl.

I said, "What should we call
this baby?"

And he said, "Mo."

So, we call you Momo, and
I found out later that that is -

at least, I was told -
Japanese for "little peach".

Oh, I love that.
I kind of do, too.

Did you also find out later that
it was short for homosexual?

No. What?!

Yeah. Do you not know that?
No.

Yeah. Weird.

My mom was, like,
a Weight Watchers mom.

You know, cantaloupe and
cottage cheese for breakfast.

Just, like, real '80s diet foods.

I remember the first time
I went to Weight Watchers,

and there was a requirement that
you had to have so much liver,

for the protein.

And...seriously, cannot eat liver.

It would make me gag.

So, I devised this wonderful
approach, where I'd cut it up

into little tiny pieces and cook it,

and then I'd freeze it, so I could
swallow them like pills.

And you wouldn't have to taste any?
I wouldn't have to taste it.

And I thought, well, this is bright.

You did Weight Watchers.
You and I did Atkins.

We did fen-phen.

Fen-phen went off the market
shortly after we did it.

That's probably why I quit.

And I remember you being like,
"Well, what's the big deal?

"It worked really well
for a lot of us."

And you were like, "What was
the problem it was causing?"

And I was like,
"Heart valve failure?"

And you were like, "Come on!"

"How many people?!"

THEY LAUGH

I think you were the one who sent me
that research that was, like,

the strongest bonding amongst women
happens when people are talking

about how much they hate
their bodies. Oh, God.

So, my question for you...

I've been doing all this writing,
right?

Like, it's getting sort of
more and more of a profile,

and it's all about being fat.

And I'm curious about...
just how that hits you.

Well, I don't read all of them.
Yeah.

Cos it is hard on my heart,
you know. Yeah.

And when you write about something
that happened

when you were living at home,
and the family was breaking up,

it makes me wish that I had been
more fully aware of...

Those things make me sad.

I think I took more from how
you looked at yourself...

Yes. ..than how you looked at me.

Yes.

Like, you would look at pictures
of yourself and go,

"I don't even recognise that person.
Look at my thighs.

"I don't want to be in the picture."

Especially as I got fatter than you,
where I was like, oh, shit.

"Now what?"

Well, if you feel that way
about your body,

how am I supposed to feel
about mine? Yes.

But I think that's how
it gets passed along. Yeah.

At the tender age of 11,
I had already attended

kids' weight loss programmes
and fat day camps.

But despite my best efforts,
my stubborn body clung to its fat.

So I was at Weight Watchers.

I learned how many calories
were in a half cup of blueberries,

a slice of cheese, a piece of toast.

I learned to keep a food journal -
a skill that I kept

as an eating disorder flourished
in me later in life.

I learned to fear food over time,
coming to resent needing it at all.

More or less, my whole life.

I went away for college,
and then came right back.

It's great and it's garbage.

And I love it.

So I stick around, you know?

The hardest part about writing is
changing the channel in your brain.

So, you spend all this time writing
about hard stuff,

and I'll usually get on the freeway
for a while

and just drive so that my brain
can sort of mull it over,

and then I will pull over
and do some writing.

I love being a great big fat lady...

..with a little tiny car.

I'm doing all of this anonymously.

There are people who, like,
say really horrible things.

And wish really horrible things
upon me.

I can't remember what
the title of the piece was.

Embracing Your Fat Friend,
or something like that.

And they said, "Embrace you?
I don't even want to look at you.

"It disgusts me to see you
cross the room."

"Why would I want to touch you?"

"You're going to die,
and you might as well hasten it."

Stuff like that. Like,
it's such a no-go area for people.

No. I mean, there's four million
people in Oregon, you know.

I'm one of them.

Find a fat lady in Oregon.

Is it her? Who knows?

Yeah!

The flip side is...

..hearing from people
who feel really validated.

Like, VERY validated by the things
that I write about.

There are parts of the world
of dieting that -

having some distance from them -
I now find absolutely hilarious.

I found this compilation from years
ago of, like, '60s girl groups

that didn't quite make it.

And it is a song called
Try the Worryin' Way.

Like, I can't tell you how much
I love it.

MUSIC PLAYS

that you can't trust

Shap-doo-bap

I'm a fat activist,
and I collect vintage diet books.

Don't count calories

my man's been with

he was out with the guys

What Would Jesus Eat?

If your answer is bread and wine,
you are correct.

How To Take 20 Pounds Off Your Man.

Oh, she's hugging him,
but she's also measuring him.

What an absolute creep.

Oh, Elizabeth.

America's foremost astrologian
tells you how to stay healthy...

..through the stars!

Oh!

This one's written by a sociologist.

Get a load of this author photo.

He hired one of The Strokes...

..to stab a doughnut
with a switchblade!

Diet A = Boy! Diet B = Girl!

It is written by actual,

honest to God,
health care providers,

which is a real mind blower.

This one.

First, you'll learn how the devil
is able to influence our eating!

But it's the same thing as, like,
Weight Watchers or Slimming World,

or any of those, right? Just, like,
straight-up calorie counting.

This whole book is focused on
the idea of carbo cals.

That is functionally identical
to Atkins, keto,

any of your low carb diets.

We're repackaging
the same four or five diets

over and over and over again.

And they didn't fucking work
in 1943,

so why would they start
magically working?

So, when people diet,
a few things happen, right?

One is they lose a little bit
of weight in the short term,

they stop losing weight, and then
they start gaining weight back

after three or five years.

Pretty much all of the available
data we have shows us that

upwards of 90% gain back even more
than when they started.

This is, like, on the order
of Big Tobacco levels

of truly just lying to people.

It is a real paradigm shift to look
at someone my size, or larger,

and rather than thinking, boy,

I wish that person would put in
some effort, thinking,

that person may have put in
a great deal of effort.

And that might have been what
got them here.

I was a pilot for United Airlines.

I flew to Sydney three times
a month.

So, I have somewhere between 25,000
and 30,000 hours of flying time,

which is about the same as...

ABRUPT HISSING NOISE

Shit...! Excuse me.

What the earthly hell is that?

That's an automatic water drain
on my air compressor.

My name is Rusty.
I'm Aubrey's father.

AUBREY LAUGHS

And I'm delighted to be
Aubrey's father.

I'll take that.

I've never been to this hangar
before.

And the last time I was up
in that plane, I was 15.

The big change, I would say,
is our relationship now

is really different than it was.

Yeah, no kidding.

Have you read
Aubrey's writing?

Uh, very little.

But I have read some.

Oh, just her blog about, you know...

..how she interacts with...

I read some of her things about
airline travel and...

Yeah, did you read the one
about flying? Yeah, yeah.

I haven't read, uh, a lot of it.

Oh, I thought it was great,
cos I see that all the time...

..being a pilot. And my partner,
Zack, is a flight attendant.

So, it's... Yeah, it was...
it was very interesting.

I guess I should...
I should read more of her stuff.

That's up to you.
But I don't, you know...

I do appreciate it.

My breath tightens immediately
when the call comes.

It's my boss's boss telling me

that there's an important meeting
in another city.

Or maybe it's a friend inviting me
to her wedding.

Sometimes it's a family member
whose health is failing,

and the time has come
to say goodbye.

I will have to get on a plane.

And I am fat.

Fat people are shown on planes
all the time - loud, obnoxious,

elbowing people, taking up space,

getting Cheetos crumbs
all over ourselves and you.

Our whole existence designed
to make you miserable.

It couldn't be further
from my experience.

The anxiety doesn't subside
once I buy a ticket - it distils,

intensifying for weeks
leading up to the flight.

I practise how I will sit on
the plane,

pushing my body
against the cabin wall,

one arm holding the other firmly
over my chest,

so that I will make
no physical contact

with the person sitting next to me.

I bring mints so I won't
need anything to drink,

and so the flight attendant won't
have to reach across the row

for the fat person.

I understand why all of my fellow
passengers are on edge,

because everyone is uncomfortable
in aeroplanes.

Rather than being a compatriot
stuck in the same frustrating,

uncomfortable situation,
I become a scapegoat.

I am watched and judged harshly
as I try, and fail,

to fit into a into a space
made for someone else.

An agent got in touch with me
and was like,

"Do you want to write a book?
Cos you could write a book."

Which is the wildest Cinderella
story of a thing to have happen.

So, it is December 11.

Uh...

I normally don't know the date,
but today I know the date,

because today is the day
I'm supposed to hear back

from the publisher.

I am...

..a lifelong anxious person.

And I am a fucking mess.

And I sort of have had
the illusion of staying...

of being able to decide
to stay anonymous.

You don't get to anonymously
write a book.

Erm...

So, it's both a lot of excitement
over the possibility

of writing a book - it's a thing
I really, really, really,

really want to do -

combined with the thing
I'm most afraid of.

I'm in my office.

I...think my co-worker is gone.

Erm...

Cos no-one that I work with
knows about my writing.

I have been in meetings all day,

and have been sitting on an email.

I saw...

..the subject line,
which is just "response"...

..from the publisher.

And I'm not sure if
I want to open this email.

Like, I know I do, but...

I'm going to give it a go.
Here we go.

Email from the publisher.

Um...

SHE SNIFFS

Holy shit.

I'm going to write a book.

It's so surreal to be in a moment
where your whole life is changing.

So what do you have to do today?

I'm getting my headshots done
for my book.

It's going to be the first-time
people see my face.

So, here we go.

I'm not normally much of a make-up
person,

but it kind of seemed like if ever
there was a day for it, you know?

Does it look ridiculous?

Like, a little bit but I'm into it.

Woo!

What?!

SHE LAUGHS

I thought about that for today
and I was like,

that's not
what you do for the first time.

I'd had my headshots taken
once before, for work.

The photographer just kept
taking pictures of me,

looking at the screen,
frowning, being like,

"Let's go again,"
and take some more.

And like, I don't know for sure
what was underneath that, but I do

know I was the fattest person there.

And finally I was just like,

"I mean,
these are all what I look like."

"Like, I don't...
It's fine. That's my face."

INDISTINCT SPEECH

There are some people who are like,
"Oh, my God, your skin is amazing,"

which is one of the coded,

"I can't really say you
look good because you ARE fat,

"but I CAN say
that you have good skin."

What do you want people
to know about you

without a doubt
when they see your photo?

I think it's important to me
that people think of me

as like a thoughtful person
with some level of power,

because truly, as soon as
I start talking, it's just like...

SHE LAUGHS

It's full Muppet City.

So, like a little balance
for that could be a helpful thing.

Something happened last night...

..that was a mixture of very sweet
and very frustrating.

My dad and his girlfriend invited me
over to dinner at their house.

They invited
a number of family friends.

It was incredibly sweet
and it was sort of informally

was like a "congratulations,
you got a book deal. Yay!"

And we talked about the book
for a little while,

and folks wanted to know what it was
about and what the title is.

And then we all sat down to eat,

and the entire rest of
the evening's conversation

was about what diet really works.

Whether keto or paleo is better.

And, you know, if low-fat diets
really got the short end

of the stick
and we should revisit those.

And, like, any time there was not
results, someone would say something

like, "I just haven't tried
hard enough. That's what it is."

It was just weird to see all these
people who I've known for years,

who have all been the same size for
the whole time I've known them,

talking about getting rid
of, like, "those last 10 lbs."

The irony of that book about how
we need to rethink fat and fatness

and diets, and how we treat
fat people,

and how we think
about the fat on our own bodies,

right up against...

..a whole conversation
about how to get less fat...

..made me really sad at first,

and now I'm actually
just really angry about it.

Doesn't seem to matter
what angle I take,

and it just doesn't ever land.

Oh, there you go -
you want Pete Portland.

This lady's from Portland.

Just a sensible haircut
and a nice raincoat.

Foraging for mushrooms,
like you do

I wanted to start getting
excited about foods

instead of feeling shitty around
truly every food.

Oh!

Like, I would eat the shit
out of that.

Sweet and sour soup
with lobster mushrooms?

I love a cookbook.

This one
is a cookbook of mushroom recipes.

I'm very excited.

I'm a mushroom fiend.

Can I do a pound of the shrimp?

And you know what,
can I also get a crab?

How's your day treating you?

Not bad. All right, I'll take it.

Yeah, sure. Why not?

And your Sunday?
It's going all right.

I'm going to go make
a bunch of soup,

and then I'm just going to eat
a crab.

Thank you so much.
Have a great day.

Everything about dieting puts
you in this headspace of, like...

"..that's not for you and that's not
for you, and that's not for you."

There's just, like, so much judgment

around fat people and food.

Other people are telling
you not to eat.

Your doctor is telling you
to eat 500 calories a day.

The same things that are
cause for concern in thin people

are like required social
performances of fat people.

I had a woman take a melon
out of my cart at the grocery store

at one point and she went,
"It's got too much sugar for you.

"It's not good for you."

And I was like, "It's a melon.
What do you want from me?"

I would say the default assumption
is if a fat person says

they have an eating disorder,
it must be binge eating disorder.

You have to have a BMI of under 17
to be diagnosed with anorexia.

Um...

And if you don't, you can be
diagnosed with something called

atypical anorexia,
which is basically like, you're fat,

but also..

SHE LAUGHS

..you are doing the things
that an anorexic person does.

SHE SIGHS

Um...

I am a person
who has an eating disorder.

Uh, many days I would make it almost
the whole day without eating...

..and then feel just
a real crushing sense of failure

when I had to eat something.

I didn't really talk to anybody
about it for a long time.

Uh, because I knew...

..how many fat people genuinely,
like, go in to seek treatment

for an eating disorder and get told

they don't look like they've missed
a meal in a while,

or get laughed at
by health care staff.

So...

It's hard to talk about
because I would like to...

I would like to have treatment
that doesn't make it worse.

And I don't know that there's
a place to get that treatment.

Zack got this nutmeg
in Singapore in 1980.

It's still good.

I'm making bourbon sweet potatoes.

Do you make this every year
for Thanksgiving?

I just do it differently
slightly every year.

Half a cup of butter.

That's why it tastes so good.

MICROWAVE WHIRS

Bourbon.

I'm supposed to beat
that until it gets creamy?

I don't see that happening, do you?

This?

What is this? It's just the butter
that's not cooperating.

I softened it in the microwave.

I hate it when things don't turn out
the way I want them to.

Lucky for you, that rarely happens.

How long have you guys
been together?

24 years, December 13th.

We're still dating.

He's my boyfriend.

Look how young we were!

We were never young.

Hey, I'm thinking 50
was pretty young.

I was a flight attendant for Pan Am.

Pan Am was first class all the way.

I was in my early 20s
and I weighed like 98 lbs,

but I had to wear a girdle.

They come by and they would pinch
your fanny to make sure

you were wearing a girdle.

So that was funny.

We had weight check once a month.

It didn't bother me the way
it bothered some.

Back then, we all knew
if we're going to have this job,

we have to do it.

Oh, yeah.
Auby and I talk cosmetics,

and I got her into facials
and really taking care of her skin.

And she does.

And she's got beautiful skin.

What do you make of the things
that Aubrey's writing about?

I...
I like, um, the way she describes...

.."fat" and big people.

She keeps me on my toes.

She keeps me educated
as to what's going on.

How you doing?

I'm great.

Yeah? I am.

All right, I'll take it.

No, he's not.

He's not feeling well.

"I can't make it but I want to see
you on Thanksgiving."

So, we're going to make up a plate
for him and take it over to him.

Wow.

Well, you're next.

Cheers. Happy Thanksgiving
Cheers. Happy Thanksgiving!

Yay!

There we go.

Thank you. Thank you.

And?

Mm.

Yeah.

LAUGHTER

OK, so I just had my first
bite of the smoked turkey.

And you still only...
Which is so smoky and so good.

Costco.

Just a Costco turkey
and you smoked it or they smoked it?

They smoked it.
What?!

Yeah, yeah, yeah! Oil change 10%.

Well, then I'll be texting
you during draft day.

Oh, yeah.

"Before you comment on
how much you've eaten, the weight

"of your regret, your fears
for the body you might grow into,

"stay silent for a moment."

"We're here to care for each other.

"As imperfect as that love may be.

"Model the love you wish
you saw around you."

KEYS TAP ON KEYBOARD

So, the book rewrites are due today

and I have ten pages to rewrite,

which is more than I wish,
but, oh, well.

Dieting is rebranding as wellness.

So my editor, she was like,
you should actually include

some numbers about like,
how much is it worth?

According to
the Global Wellness Institute,

Empowering Wellness Worldwide,

"the wellness industry"
is worth $4.5 trillion.

It's so weird to me that
it's like actually pulling folks in

where they're like,
"it's not dieting,

"it's weight loss for wellness."

And I'm like, but what,
how do you do that?

Do you change what you eat?

Are you not allowed to eat
a lot of things?

Are you trying...
Are you trying to lose weight?

Then it's a diet.

It's like they're trying
to pull some Jedi mind trick.

Like, "It's not a diet."

Part of Weight Watchers rebrand,

they had offered free memberships
to teenagers.

If teenagers engage in dieting,

they are 18 times more likely
to develop an eating disorder.

"We need customers,
where do we get them?"

Kids.

Let's call my mum Pam.

PHONE RINGING TONE

Hola, chica.

Hola, Pama.

I'm just calling to tell
you that I just sent in the last

rewritten chapter of the book.
God Bless America.

That's wonderful!

Good reinforcing answer!

It just seems like,
how can that be true?

Somebody I know wrote a book.

I love you, I love you, I love you.

I love you too, Hammy.

Bye-bye. Bye.

For now, I'm just like, it's just
a bunch of Word documents...

..sort of strung together.

So, we'll see when it's all...

..when it's all put together,
when there's a cover design,

and all that kind of stuff.

And then we talk about marketing
at some point soon.

Book tour.

Whoo!

Months of flying places.

RINGING TONE

Hello.

Hey, I'm very sorry to call you.

I know we have been strictly
Marco Polo for a little bit.

Uh... No worries.

I am freaking out about a thing,

and I could use your help
in figuring it out, buddy.

I don't know if you've been
following this.

I feel like
you follow celebrity stuff.

That Adele lost a bunch of weight,

and everybody
lost their minds? Right!

So I wrote a piece that was like,

"She hasn't said anything
about this,

"so we actually shouldn't either."

I was really nervous about
a lot of blowback.

What I did not anticipate
was a supportive note

that just came to me from Adele.

Oh, my God!

SHE LAUGHS

Oh, my God. What was the message?

She just said "Loved your article.
Prayer hands emoji."

It was from her verified account.

Oh, my God.
Of 37 million followers.

That is so rad. Congratulations.

This is just shocking and
amazing and so fucking cool.

There's like this wave of praise
that's happening now,

and it will be followed by a wave
of, you know, negative attention.

You truly can't write or talk about
people's body sizes

without somebody getting
extremely upset,

and that's really frightening.

There are times when I'm like,
working in the house at night,

you know, our house
is on the corner.

I'm pretty diligent about turning
out the lights when I leave a room,

and there are
definitely times where I'm like,

"This is just a target.
I'm sitting in front of a window.

"This is the only room
in the house with the light on.

"Here I am, sitting duck."

DOG BARKS

Um...

I look like a mess...

..and I just got doxed.

It is so fucking surreal

to see my home address

and my full name and my
fucking social security number.

And it's clear that all of this
is for sport.

"I see why her thin friend
makes more money than she does."

"Her big fat meatball head
is punchable."

I don't know
what's going to happen.

I don't know who's
going to be waiting for me.

I don't know
if they're going to kill me.

If you give them a reaction, they
will go a hundred times harder.

They will call in false terrorist
threats and send a Swat team.

There's no law against
what they're doing.

It's out there
and I can't take it down.

I've just been in lock-it-down
emotional mode

pretty much since, like,
a day or two after it happened.

You figure out how to make yourself
useful.

You figure out ways to, like,
build up a charm offensive.

You figure out how to just
sort of disappear yourself.

That's the only way
I have existed in the world.

Part of that is me stuff, and part
of it is hard fucking signals

from a lot of people
a lot of the time

that is like,
"you are not wanted here.

"This is too much
to make space for you.

"You're demanding too much.

"You're expecting too much.

"Why did you even
show up to begin with?"

Like, walking down
the aisle of a bus

and just watching every seat
fill up with bags

because nobody wants
to fucking sit next to you.

It's been about six months
of Covid pandemic.

It's like a really isolating time,

even if you have the best
support system in the world.

I had a little freak out.

So, as part of my freak out,

I got this guy who freshly rolled
in a bunch of compost this morning,

so he's nice and dirty.

I talked to my brother and he
was like, "So, when did you realise

"that the dog you got was
you in dog form?"

I ended up with a real skittish guy.

Just a terrible guard dog.

Can you sit? Good boy.

Yeah. This is a sharp blade.

Not sharp enough.

Let's do it.

"As I write this, on the eve
of publishing my first book

"and revealing my face to readers
for the first time, I'm afraid.

"I'm afraid of what those trolls
might do.

"I'm afraid of being hurt.

"Being killed.

"On some days, I remember
the remoteness of this possibility.

"On others,
the fear of it consumes me."

Good. There you go.

"I'm afraid of the response
from fat people."

"Both baulking at ever
having listened to me."

"Afraid that they will use
their response to my body..."

"Some of those fears
will come to pass.

"Some won't.

"So it's time to tell you who I am.

"I'm Aubrey Gordon.

"I'm 37 years old
and I weigh 350 lbs.

"I've been waiting to meet you."

Oh, my God!

Whoa!

There you go.

Oh, God.

All right, people know
what I look like.

I've been going to Powell's
since I could pick out books.

It's where I got my first
copy of

the Complete Works
of William Shakespeare,

which I got every year
for Christmas,

because I would wear it out.

And it's where my first
girlfriend published her book.

There are so many milestones.

Almost as much as a childhood home.

To have it on that
featured New Releases Shelf

was and is totally overwhelming.

Uh! Um...

Come to think about it,
being there in Powell's

was one of the places that I checked
this week,

and they were totally sold out.

Who in your family has read
the book?

I don't know, and I will not ask.

I know everybody in my family
has bought the book,

and I trust that they will take
their own time in deciding...

..whether and when to read the book.

Love isn't the word.

I FELT this book.

Felt it in every inch
of my fat body.

This is the actual time...

..for everyone to read
Aubrey Gordon's

What We Don't Talk About
When We Talk About Fat book.

Aubrey Gordon is a fantastic author.

And at some point when I wasn't
paying attention, she stopped

being anonymous on that account
and came out as the...

I love it, I love it.

I've been waiting for this book.

This is going to be life-changing
for so many fat people.

Cheers. Cheers!

Congratulations. Cheers, Aubrey.

Hey, there's your whiskey.

What? I'm drinking,
like, very fancy bourbon.

What a delight.

You fucking did it!

You wrote a book.

Thanks, bud.

It's very exciting.

And it's not just a book.

It's important.

And like, the world's going
to be just, like, slightly better.

THEY CHEER

Whoa! Shit.

Jesus Christ on a cracker.

Yeah.

LAUGHTER

Um, I got a call...

..a little over a week ago
from a colleague of mine

who I really like and admire.

Um, his name is Michael Hobbs,
and he's a reporter.

He told me that he had pitched
the idea of the two of us

co-hosting a podcast, and I said
yes, which is really exciting

and weird and wild.

Mike and I decided to record
six episodes,

and we thought
we would just see how it goes.

There we go.

Record entire screen.

Hey.

Hey. How you doing?

Your make-up looks nice.
Oh, thank you.

Whose make-up palette is this?

Nobody's make-up palette,
it is one colour.

I thought you were,
like, big into palettes.

I love a palette.

Uh, my move with a palette is to,
um, like, have a lot of booze

and then be like,
"I can experiment."

It's not great.

Uh, OK, I'm recording on my end.

Hi, everybody.
Welcome to Maintenance Phase.

We're going to explore the many
rabbit holes, past and present

around health, wellness,
bodies and weight loss.

My name is Aubrey Gordon and I am
here with my co-host Michael Hobbs.

Hello. Yeah. Hi.

I was scrolling through
the top 100 health podcasts.

Very, very few of them were
subversive or in any way sceptical.

So I thought it would be a good idea
to have a show that is curious

about this stuff.

This is a very special episode
because Aubrey has a new book out

and it is called What We Don't Talk
About When We Talk About Fat.

It is a sort of primer
on all of the ways that fat bias

affects fat people.

Sorry, I found
my new favourite book.

What?

One of the numbers I pulled
out of your book was that 68%

of American women
wear above a size 14 dress.

So we should actually be talking
TO those people, as opposed

to talking to everyone else
and saying,

here's how to prevent yourself

from becoming like
the majority of Americans.

People really like to talk
about weight loss

being a really simple thing
that anybody can do,

and it actually really isn't.

We just don't know how to make fat
people thin in the long term.

No country or American state
has ever reduced its obesity rate.

Auby I made up...
and I just cracked this pepper.

I made you up your own...

Oops - your own individual
salt and peppers.

That's so sweet of you, Zack.

And, um...

That's it, that'll do it.
Thanks, Zack.

It's so good.

Oh, my God, Zack, I didn't tell you.

We recorded the first episode
of our podcast.

It was so fun.

It's like a whole world of,
like, This American Life

and Science Friday.

There you go.

Come on, man.

So today, Mike, we are going to talk
about the body mass index,

better known as the BMI.
Dude, I'm so excited.

The first American life insurance
company

creates height and weight
tables for the purposes

of charging fat policyholders more.

So they're basing all of these
charts on people with the wealth

and inclination to buy life
insurance policies,

which means in 1942,
that is white men, everybody.

It is not, and cannot be surprising
that something that was designed

exclusively for white people and men

fucks up the health of people
of colour and women, right?

Yeah. So what we have is one
of the wildest, worst and most

ubiquitous pieces of science
that we all hear about all the time.

And in many sort of medical systems
around the country

and around the world, it has become
central to accessing medical care.

In 1998, the National Institute
of Health changed the definition

of overweight and obese,

and they substantially lowered
the threshold

to be medically considered fat.

Oh! So, like,
"How was your week? I became fat."

Yeah, that's right.

Now we're talking.

If you can make more people
medically overweight or obese,

then you have a fuck ton
more customers,

not only on an individual level,
but you've got state contracts.

Being a fat person
saying into a microphone like,

here is what I researched and found,

it's easy to read as a very
self-serving set of conclusions.

Yeah, I was just going to
accuse you of glorifying obesity.

Thank you! I'm trying my best.

You saw my eyeliner today.

If that's not glorifying obesity,
I don't know what is.

Part of the thing that really bugs
me about this field

is that fat people are somehow seen
as, like, compromised.

You can't talk about the science
if you're a fat person.

But it's like, if a thin person
is doing it, you're like,

"oh, there might be something here."

I get to be like the thin,
unbiased one on the show,

which is so fucking stupid.

By the year 2000, truly, every night
on the news,

there are these deeply
fear-mongering stories

about obesity.

And then there are these shots
of fat people

filmed from the neck down.

And I will say, during that time,

I spent a good ten to 15 years
watching that B-roll,

and I would often tear up
watching it, um,

because - oh, I might tear up now -
because I was looking for myself.

RAGGED BREATHING

So somebody on Twitter has written,
"Thank you to Your Fat Friend

"for sharing your vulnerability
on this week's Maintenance Phase.

"I lost it a few years ago at a news
crew who were obviously taking

"B-roll for a story, because I was
absolutely terrified it would result

"in my headless body being shown
as a cautionary tale."

Oh, somebody says "this pod has done
more to change my relationship

"with food and how I view my own
body, than all the myriad treatments

"for my eating disorder over the
last utterly exhausting 40 years.

"Thank you."

Whoo!

"If you are into podcasts,
this is such a great listen.

"Funny, well researched and honest.

"You will learn, get angry
and have a good time."

Get angry and have a good time.

So we weren't really sure
how folks were going to respond

and it really went like gangbusters.

We have just continually seen
this hockey stick growth rate,

just a real sharp spike
every month or two.

It's just truly, truly, truly wild.

Today is Covid vaccine shot.

There's all of this stuff
out there about vaccines

are less effective in fat people.

And the current theory is
that that is because the needles

are too short to achieve
an intramuscular vaccine,

which is what you need.

The research that I've read
has said that it can result

in half the antibodies.

So, like, it's a dramatic reduction
in effectiveness.

Yeah.

So, today, I'm going ask if I get
a longer needle.

I'll see.

How's your day treating you?

It's going great.
How about you guys? Yeah.

You know, hanging tough. Right?

Oh, my God. You have a thing about
needle length?

Yeah. The shorter needle, it could
still get into the muscle.

Just not as far in. Yeah.

And then I will use
a one-inch needle on you today.

Thank you.

All right. Ready?

Yep.

SKYPE RINGTONE

Hey! How is Germany life?

Good, we're doing boosters.

Hey, I just got mine yesterday,
and holy shit, Mike.

I went into the pharmacy
and the person already knew

about needle length,
and it was, like, genuinely great.

Like, didn't even have to ask.

Great. They're listening
to Maintenance Phase.

Lit. Lit. Got to be. Got to be.

Yeah.

LAUGHTER

So, whoop!

Here we go.

SHE LAUGHS

I just... I just got it.

And I was like, boy, it's like
our paint samples,

our old fan and like
an empty planter.

I was like,
"Oh, what a scenic shot."

Mm.

That fan keeps wanting
to come on in.

OK.

Treat fat people like people.

Our podcast won a Webby for
Best Podcast Series for the Year,

which is very exciting.

I report back on this stuff
to my family.

They responded in a way
that is like,

"Oh, you got an award.
That's great."

Neither one of them really knows
what to do with a Webby,

which is fine.

I actually got
recognised by voice at Starbucks.

Riley at Starbucks.

Thanks, Riley.

It's really interesting,
I get feedback from people.

People are having this,
like, very strong response

to hearing me laugh.

I feel like I'm in this weird moment
where I'm like,

people treated me like shit
for a long time because I was fat.

But now that I write about
being fat,

it's like people
are like nicer about...

I don't understand that.

And I feel like my whole life
has just been like

"too loud, quiet down,
too much laughing."

And now people are like,
"No, that's good."

I feel like I'm just in a little,
like, emotional whiplash

kind of moment about it.

Wow.

Want to see a picture of Aubrey
when she was young?

I don't really have picture albums.

I just put them all
on my bedroom door.

This is my favourite picture
of her when she was little.

She just... It's... I love that one.

Was there a moment where
you've noticed that Aubrey

was becoming fat?

Yeah. Not fat exactly,
but something like,

"I'm concerned. This looks like
something we should attend to."

She was in high school.

Her father has moved out, and
we're going through this icky time

piling on all these things
that are hard.

Did you think that there was a point
where she would lose the weight

and become smaller?

No.

No, I never did think that.

It, uh...

No.

PLAYS PIANO TENTATIVELY

OK.

What?

Doing great. Yeah, so far, so good.
You're welcome.

You're welcome for your house.

What?

Just this fucking weirdo, shut-in -
a 21st century Miss Havisham.

Just hanging out in a closet,
recording a podcast.

Uh.

Pam and I had a long conversation
this morning, prompted by filming

yesterday about her regrets
about parenting.

Like, something is,
like cracking open.

What was it that
she was worried about?

The thing that she was having
a moment about was she was like,

"I didn't ever think about
whether or not it was working.

"I kept doing it, and I didn't think

!about whether
or not it was working."

What was working?
The weight loss stuff.

Yo, uh, how are you?

How's...?
It looks really fun so far.

We're back to the hostage video.

This is the scale
that I had growing up.

Yeah, it's like sort of a doctor's
office scale

and sort of a person who's had
the same scale since 1971.

Hi, everybody, and welcome
to Maintenance Phase,

the podcast that already knows
it's going to die.

You don't have to tell us.
It's fine.

So, I've been painting
for about two and a half years.

This is a yummy colour.

What is new for me is that
I don't really care

if anybody else likes it.

I woke up this morning
thinking about

our conversation yesterday and...

Well, this is a good start.

OK, I think
I should just let this dry.

Um... And thinking
about Aubrey being...

..13, 14, um...

..when she agreed to go with me
to Weight Watchers.

And her thing with her failed
attempts and wondering, you know,

what prompted me to do that?

Since you asked
that wonderful question,

"Did you expect anything to change?"

No, actually. Uh, what the hell
was I doing it for?

It was my responsibility.

Her size was my responsibility.

Very clearly.

That was the message
from my husband.

And, um...

So I took action,
but I didn't really...believe in it.

And so I sort of went through
motions.

What I wish I had said or...

..done...

..was sort of bring Aubrey into
the, you know,

just into the discussion

because she took away something
that I didn't intend.

Of course she did.

But, um...
Anyway, that's my regret about that.

I regret about that.

This looks crazy.

What about your...
What is your sleep...

Like, what kind of sleeper are you?

Like, I'm a person with,
uh, just a nice little array,

a little charcuterie platter
of anxiety disorders.

Uh, so mostly
it's like anxiety and sleep.

..that kind of
stuff, which I think is not.

I'm not alone.

It seems like it's going along,
the recording.

You know, there's something
about saying things out loud

that make you see things anew,
differently.

The process of having cameras going
and having things recorded,

sort of makes things bubble up
that might not otherwise bubble up.

Yeah.

And, you know,
why didn't I do things?

SHE EXHALES SHAKILY

But, honestly, you do the best
you can with what with what

you've got at the moment, you know?

SPEAKS ON PHONE

Yeah!

CONTINUES TALKING ON PHONE

Mama, want to?

It was my birthday the other day.

It was my mum's birthday gift to me.

She made me a painting
with my favourite colours.

Lovely.

When did we make this last?

I don't know, like ten years ago.

It's been a long time
since we did this one.

I got a very cute call from my dad
and he was like,

"I tried saving your logo
for your show.

"I need it as a jpeg."

And I was like, "What
are you working on over there?"

And he went, "None of your business.
Just tell me how to do it."

Water glasses.

I love that he's very clearly
planning a surprise,

and that the only person
he has to call

about how to do the tech stuff,
is the person it's a surprise for!

All right.

Do you want it sprayed or no?

I would have gone
the other direction

but I'm not telling you what to do
or anything.

All right.

This is going to
drive you bananas, huh?

Yeah. OK.

KNOCKING ON DOOR
Oh, is that Vicky?

Yeah, probably.

Hello?

Oh, Finny, you're fine, buddy.

Sure does.

Thank you so, so much.

I think you might have had
a surprise spoilt.

You think what? Nothing.

Nothing. I think...
Oh, was that this?

That was who was at the door.

You're not allowed to look.
I didn't look -

didn't look, wouldn't look.

Oh, my God.

Good "Oh, my God"?

I'm pretty happy. That's the extent
of my Photoshop talents.

I expect she'll cry, but I'm...

It's just me wishing.

The gang's all here.

I'm going to start
dishing things up.

Auby, this is yours.

No sugar in anything.

Thanks, Pop.

Is that enough? Beautiful.

Beautiful and gorgeous.

And I'm very excited.

Thanks for cooking, Pop.

So good.

Perfection.
CORK POPS

Very good. Yeah.
There you go, birthday girl.

I thought that was... Thanks, Pop.
..the ultimate.

All right, happy birthday to you.

AUBREY HUMS ALONG

Ah!

Thanks, Vicky.

I didn't do it, your dad did.

I'm going to take a picture
of this.

This is ridiculous and the best.

They tried to make this gluten-free
and sugar free,

but the stuff on the top...

Sure! ..don't eat because
they tried putting this print -

it's a print - on their
regular, sugar-free...

Uh-huh. ..cool whip-based topping,
and it just all bubbled up.

Gotcha. So I got the door and she
saw the dog, and she looked at Finn

and she went, "You look
like the face on the cake."

Oh!

Nice move!

Happy birthday. Aubrey.

Your first fiscally
independent birthday.

Jesus fucking Christ!

Sorry. That's...

That's a dad's perspective.

So, we'll give you the nose.

Sure.

Thank you for dismembering my dog.

This is sugarless raspberry.

Great! Thank you.

But you're not supposed to eat
this part cos it's got sugar in it.

She said,
"Is this is a sugarless cake?"

She said, "This is not
the best product we produce."

She says, "You come back
and get one with sugar.

"It's hard to come up with
a sugar free, gluten free."

Well, it didn't need to be...

Well, whatever.
But...

You know, that was...
That was where we started.

Well, Aubrey, that's not
the response I thought I'd get

for that cake.

What was the response
that you thought you would get

for that cake?

I was looking for something
a little more emotional and not...

And not delighted at a knife
slicing through my dog's face.

Yeah, right.

It's so good, Pop.

It's so good. It's really great.

It's your birthday.

You can cry if you want to.

That's all you're having.

It's a slab of cake, man.

I just want you to get a load
of this haunting, haunting image.

One eye. One eye intact.
You're taking that home, by the way.

And I don't care
what you do with it. OK.

Woo!

Oh.

I'm not a candy eater much,
but I'm definitely a candy enabler.

I enjoy for people
who want candy to have candy.

Wait, wait. No! Coming.

Hi, guys.
Yeah. Happy Halloween, guys.

Thank you.

Yeah, I remember me being a kid,

and we would get the, like, big bag
of little fun-sized candy bars.

Yeah. Yeah.

Go for it. Thank you.

I'm going to be a cool adult.

And for me, one of the ways
of being a cool adult

is you got to be
the full-size candy house.

You got to be the
"take a hand full" house.

Hey. Oh, my gosh, are you Bob Ross?

Yeah. This is amazing.

Thank you. You want to take two
of those, Bob Ross?

Thank you. Thank you.

I sure got a dirty look when I said,

"Well, this is the first year
she's fiscally independent."

I should have said, "This is
the first year that we quit worrying

"about her
and she starts worrying about us."

Which is more accurate.

Why was it important for
you to throw her a birthday party?

Well, it's a big... This is
a big year for her, a huge year.

And I haven't always
had the opportunity

to throw her a birthday party,
you know?

There was a time after
the divorce that

she was living with her mum, and I
didn't have much contact with her.

We've only been reunited in the last
eight or ten years, so it's nice

to be able to do things for her.

I'd fly a trip and come home

and it would take all my days off
to recover.

It was terrible.

Yeah, it's...it's...

It's not a lifestyle
that's easy on your family.

I was big in high school,
and I had a, a very demanding

and iron-fisted captain father.

You know, I was always,
like my father,

worried about losing control.

Aubrey told me that she felt watched
when she was eating sometimes.

Oh, yeah, I'm sure she did.

I'm sure she did.

So did I when I was growing up.

I didn't learn anything from it,
obviously.

But, uh...

Yeah, I know she was.

I know she was,
because I was the one watching.

Week after next
is my first author event

and it's going to be at Powell's.

I feel nervous about a big event.

Fuck, man!

That's my first time...

..showing up to a place
and being like,

"I'm going to be here in person.

"Whatever you want to do or say
to me, come on down and fucking do

"or say to me."

And that...

..feels really...intense.

A lot of the work is exposing
a bunch of traumas,

getting super vulnerable
in super public ways.

It's like giving people
a road map for how to hurt me.

And I spend a lot of time getting
a lot of emails from a lot of people

being like,
"How do I deal with this thing?"

And I'm like, I don't know.

I don't know because I'm also in it.

I picked a piece that I wrote
a couple years ago called

Just Say Fat.

There are people who I know
who will be there,

who are not OK with that word.

And I wanted to start from
a place of like,

"you're going to hear
this word a lot, and here is why."

I talked to my brother about this.

He was like, what are you
even anxious about?

And I was like, it just feels
like I'm standing on a cliff

and I'm about to jump
and I can't see what's below.

And he corrected me and was like,
"You already did the jumping.

"This is the falling.

"You're doing the falling."

EXCITED CHATTER

on my body, and I know

Thank you for coming out tonight.

Such a nice, big crowd.

Anti-fatness is everywhere.

And What We Don't Talk About
When We Talk About Fat

Aubrey Gordon, the creator
of Your Fat Friend

and co-host
of the Maintenance Phase...

Please welcome Aubrey Gordon
and Dan Casey.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE CONTINUES

Hi, everybody.
Thanks for coming out.

This is wild!

This is called Just Say Fat.

"Just say fat.

"Not curvy or chubby or chunky
or fluffy or more to love

"or big guy or full-figured or
big-boned or queen-size or husky

"or obese or overweight.

"Just say fat.

"If you're taking a stand
for fat people

"take a stand for all of us -

"those of us who are disabled,
diabetic, hypertensive -

"those of us who are too fat
for your own comfort.

"Do not limit our humanity

"by limiting who among us
you will accept.

"Just say fat.

"Do not rush to correct fat friends
who name their own bodies

"for themselves using the words
that fit their experience.

"You do not need to map
the wilderness of their hearts,

"test the theories of their politics
in order to respect

"their most basic wish,
to say their own name.

"Do not shrink a vastness
that you cannot comprehend.

"Just say fat."

APPLAUSE

When people talk about anti-fatness,
it very quickly ends up being about

like, self-love,
which is a wonderful goal.

And if that is the road
that you are on, by all means, team,

come on down. Sounds great.

And anti-fatness
is a different thing.

Part of that is this idea
that you can love yourself

out of oppression...

GENTLE LAUGHTER

It doesn't go great.

I don't know if you guys have read
this thing called history.

One of the big emails that I get is,

"How do I tell my fat friend
that their diet isn't going to work

"and they're going to be fat
forever?"

And I'm like,
"You don't. You don't!"

Huh?!

"I love you, I hear where
you're coming from. Don't do that."

If you want your fat friend
to love themselves,

then work on all of the people
telling them

that they can't or shouldn't.

You don't have to do everything.

Just do something so we can't be
burning ourselves out

on consuming the crap
that's getting coughed up...

Dan and I talked beforehand
about how we're both

going to have a hard time
not swearing.

LAUGHTER
So that's what just happened here.

I was like, we're talking right next
to the children's books.

The thing that moves people
is not facts or figures or numbers.

The thing that moves people
is personal connection

and personal stories,
and that is it.

Which is why you talking to your mom
is more effective

than me talking to your mom...

LAUGHTER

That change happens most effectively

when people don't feel super ashamed
all the time.

All right, we're done.

Boop!

APPLAUSE AND CHEERING

I'm just blown away.

I can hardly hold it together.

It's the first time
I've seen her in public.

She was so freaked out.
Yeah. So freaked out.

Little Miss Anxiety, you know?

I think you should just sneak in.

You want a hug?

I know you are. I know you are.

I read your book in, like,
the height of my eating disorder.

Oh, buddy. And it changed the way
that I thought about everything.

Whoa.
And I am doing a lot better now.

Hey. Hi.
Thank you for doing what you do.

Oh, that's so kind of you.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God, that's incredible.

I'm a lady who's like, in her house
a lot and walks her dog and wears

weird outfits
around the neighbourhood.

And then I showed up
to a book store,

and there were a ton of people

who had a ton of big, wonderful,
intense feelings about me -

the lady who wears the weird outfits
around the neighbourhood.

I'm blown away by the crowd.

I expected 50 people here, you know?

It's just amazing.

It's just a great experience for me,
selfishly,

and for Aubrey, I'm sure
it's just over the moon.

I hope it is.

I'll tell him when there's
like a big marker.

"For the first-time ever, we got
a million downloads this month,"

and I think that that
is all abstract to him.

And I think there is something
about being in the room.

I think he understood
how big the work is and can be.

I think this was the first time
that he was like,

"I get what's happening here."

He thought about it for a second
and he went,

"I think it's the most amazing thing
that's ever happened to ME."

And I was like...

"Whoa, OK."

Holy cow. I'm just amazed.

And then to find Rusty with tears
in his eyes, that's like...

this is a new... This is new.

I've always been proud of her.

But... It's a very important thing
for a mother to know

that my daughter has stepped out
and gone public.

So, that means the world to me.

Aubrey. Aubrey.

I'm just amazed and proud
and delighted and you made me proud.

You're my mom, and I love you.

It is a garbage world
out there for fat people.

And I'll tell you what -

you don't do a whole lot better
in this world than Pam and Rusty.

They're a couple of people
who can do the thing.

Who can go, "Oh, wait a minute...

"I'm not sure I got this right.
Is this what you need?

"How about this?"

For a lot of fat people,

they don't actually know one single
person who they can go to

and be like,
"I'm having a rough day.

"And it's because of the way
someone treated me,

"not because I'm a fat person."

Fat people have spent
our entire fucking lives changing

to fit the world around us.

You could be the one person that
we don't have to change

in order to be with, right?

You could be the one person
who's like,

"It's OK, I don't care.

"What can I do for you?"

Girls, I used to be a little heavy.

Say, I weighed about 184.

But, you know, I've become
quite slim just recently,

and I don't have that problem
any more.

too, here's all you got to do