Original subtitles

I can't think of a crash retrieval case with live aliens better than Venia. Every

single bit of testimony from separate people from all over the area all fits perfectly.

It's like putting together a piece puzzle, right? I think if this were a murder case,

you'd have more than enough evidence. This one right here. That's so cool. The

alien was alive in this bed right here. Knowing that you sat in the

hospital room with a live captured alien and had direct telepathic communication,

you have the autopsy of this soldier who's died because he basically grabbed an alien being.

the unheard of voice. Every time I say something's impossible, therefore,

you know, it it can't be, therefore it isn't, I've been proven wrong.

I'm here round two with James Fox, who uh I always say is my documentarian hero and and now a friend.

And I just really I really appreciate you coming here because we're talking about I think maybe

the most interesting case where you have a UFO, you have alien beings and you have all of these

witnesses in a a town in Brazil in Venia, Brazil as late as 1996. We're not talking about Roswell

70 plus years ago or Magenta or Magenta, you know, 90 years ago. and you've just done an

amazing job in this movie of documenting all of the literally the flight path of the UFO,

you know, h three beings coming out of the UFO and them seeming sort of injured and and afraid,

maybe more, maybe more. And you show all of these witnesses coming from disperate places that have

zero reason to lie, have not made a penny off of any of their testimony, and they're coming from

this, you know, from Virginia, Brazil. They're not, you know, selling books at like a conference

in the Southwest in the US and like into the UFO lore. Like they don't really have pre-existing

notions of what these things even are. So hard to get those people on camera. People have no idea.

They think like people are just lining up. I want to be famous. I want my my my notoriety.

Get on camera. Exactly the opposite. People took years and in some cases decades to come

forward. And you know this most recent revelation which is in my humble opinion the most compelling

firsthand eyewitness testimony in the history of the phenomenon. I agree. I I fully agree

with that. Right. And and and it's and it's not just some random Joe. It's the guy that ran all

the hospitals humanitas regional like bone bone bone hearts. The there he mentions them in there.

But in any case, he's a neurosurgeon and he had health complications. He had a heart attack.

Then he got cancer and he was like staring at the ceiling of the ICU. and he was thinking,

"If I get through this, I'm I I can't take this to the grave." This is It's literally

the I agree with you. It's the most amazing testimony I've ever heard from a person who

was face to face with an alien being for what he describes as 3 to four minutes,

which is just remarkable. And it's clearly, you know, he's a concert pianist. You show him at the

in the end credits playing piano. Oh my god. And um and he's a a really wellrespected neurosurgeon.

And um it seems totally beyond reproach. And you see him, he's in the hospital and he's showing

the bed that the alien was on. Crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. And then he gets emotional. You take

him to a cafe nearby. He got kicked out of the hospital. Basically, he got kicked out

of the hospital. He's like, I think I might have just lost my job. So, a a lot of this might be,

you know, a lot of detail for people to take in, especially if they're not familiar with, you know,

kind of the the the background of exactly what happened kind of high level. So, we might be

getting ahead of ourselves here. So, so, so what happened in January of 1996 in Virginia?

Put me on that farm in January of 1996. What happened? So, the object was shaped like a saw.

A rubber was shaped like a school bus. It was the size of a school bus. dogs and no noise at all. We

kept watching it because there was smoke, a light smoke wrapped around it. But I even joked with

her. What is that? Is it a submarine? Because it was floating. You know, he kept watching it until

it vanished this way. It was shaped like a cigar. You know that along like that, like a cigar.

Roughly 20 m as the crow flies from the couple's sighting, farmer Fabio Futado encountered a

similar object. From here, I saw it. It passed right by and made that movement over there in

front. You see? And I saw it all from right here. Look. Then it performed that exact same movement

right here. And then it landed way back there. It was like a cigar just flying through the air. Z.

It was January 1996, probably the 13th, and there are a number of witnesses to a

cylindrical shaped object, rather large, the size of a little bigger than a school bus.

Okay. And it was like a metallic cigar shape. Cigar shape. Yeah. There were no like wings or

any visible means propulsion. It didn't really make any noise. And according to the witnesses,

it had and for the first time ever in this recent cut of Moment of Contact,

new revelations of alien encounters, we actually have a map of all the various sightings of it,

which really helped put things in perspective for me cuz he did a great job of that. Wow. I was

like, "Oh my god, he saw it here. This person saw it here. This is the town of Virginia. The crash

was here." It was like, it all makes sense, you know? And uh so they see this object and it had

a tear in the back of it which is very puzzling like hm how did that happen? Something came in

contact with that object to tear it and have they said it was like a white vapor. It wasn't like a

smoke from a fire that you would see. It was like a white vapor that it was coming out the

back and that it was clearly in distress. And I was like well how do you know it's in distress?

They were like it was struggling to stay in the air. But they said had the animals or the farmers,

the two farmers, had the animals not made a ruckus at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning,

they would have not even heard it or known it was there. It was absolutely silent and they were

expecting it to hit the ground. the two farmers. Um and um and then there was another gentleman uh

Fabio Fertada at that farm and he said that that it was make like it like it was over his house and

he was there with one other person at night and he said that it was making a w sound like it was kind

of in trouble and then it landed on his farm. It's the first time we got that testimony and that's

like over here and then you know the object was seen here and here and then it crashed right in

the middle. Um and then uh there was a gentleman by the name of Carlos Dza and he was an ultralight

pilot and he was also a his geography professor in Sa Paulo and he was going up to go ultralight

flying with his friends early in the morning on January 13th and he sees and he's a pilot

himself. He sees this object, this cigar- shaped object with a gash in the back, just like everyone

else described that was struggling to stay in the air. And he never once thought alien. He was like,

"That must be some sort of weird experimental craft. Maybe was government or air force,

whatever. It's it's in trouble. It looks like it's going down." So, it's really early in the morning.

He turns off the freeway and he goes up to this place called the Molini Farm. It was a dirt road

and he goes up there and he sees it struggling to stay in the air and then it just goes boom

and hits the ground. He's like, "Oh my god, the thing just crashed. They need help." Wow. A is it

a

wow.

So he went up to the actual impact site which was like a debris field bigger than a football field

maybe two football fields with debris everywhere. Half of the craft was still intact and then the

other half was just gone like just debris bits everywhere. got out of the car and he's looking

at it just and again never once did he think alien didn't even enter his his consciousness, right?

And um he said he's looking at it like these little bits everywhere and he goes the smell like

it pulled the he was like it's rotten eggs and ammonia. He grabbed his shirt and kind of pulled

his shirt over his mouth said my god the smell is so dense. She immediately smelled ammonia. It was

like rotten eggs. A very strong odor. I had to cover my nose with the shirt I was wearing. And

there was like kind of a liquid that you described cuz I was asking like an acid or some sort of

liquid everywhere that causing the grass and stuff to burn. And um you said it was acid, maybe an

acid or something. Yeah. Like some kind of liquid. And um that caused he was talking about the grass

was kind of was affected by it. And um actually if you when we flew the drone over that exact alleged

impact site, you can see it's different. The the ground looks different in that zone than it does

all around it. I mean, it really does. Yes. And um he picked up one of the pieces and he said it

was like aluminum. Really light. Like you couldn't feel it. Very much like the Roswell people. Always

what you hear. Yeah. And he said that he could crumple it up really light. Like you could barely

feel it in your hands. And then when he released it, it it regained its shape. It's the same thing

as what Jesse Marcel said. That's what he said. Yeah. It was weightless. He couldn't feel that you

had anything in your hands. And then he goes he goes then all these military trucks started coming

in from uh the military base Eza from the opposite direction which actually just a few months ago we

were there and I took the drone way way up in the sky and pointed it straight down and you

could see where the Eza military base the route that Eza would come in from. and he came in from

the freeway on the opposite side. And that's when he was he was threatened at gunpoint. He didn't

see anything. Get out of here. He was like, I was just trying to help. Like, you know what? What's

the problem? You know, I'm just trying to help. I'm not you know, and that's when he start things

got really weird. And then he got into his car and he left and he stopped at a gas station just a few

miles down the road to have a coffee and just kind of gather himself. And that's when an unmarked

vehicle showed up and they knew who he was, his name, his wife, his address, his daughter,

like all everything about him. Two men approached me, dressed in black suits, all perfectly aligned,

very tall individuals. They stood right next to me and asked me, "Are you Mr. Carlos Dusa, married to

so and so? Your daughter soando?" They described my entire life story right there. I turned to

the man and asked, "Who? Who are you? What do you want to know? How do you know all this?

It was perfectly clear to me. Listen, you didn't see anything. You just shut

your mouth and you leave. If anyone ever asks you anything at all, you didn't see anything.

You don't know a thing or else things will get no supposed really weird for you. All right. So,

just get out of here. I was at that moment completely startled.

It was a black or a very dark blue opala almost black and without a license plate they got in and

drove away. They vanished. That's that's crazy because it's a level of counterintel response

times. in 96 in 1996 and they they somehow know everything about your family and it's right after

you witness a a crashed craft and you drive a few miles away. Yeah. And they somehow are able

to apprehend you there. Yep. Like the car that stopped had no plates. Did they have an accent

or was it said they were very tall and they had suits and uh they spoke Portuguese and you know

sometimes there'll be one person speaking Portuguese and there'll be a couple other

people that'll just be silent in the background and that's that happened in the case of uh Louisa,

the mother of the two girls that came in direct contact with the alleged alien. Um and she's like

they they were foreigners. Like how do you know? Well, they didn't say anything but they looked

like foreigners and the money was foreign. It was like American dollars in a briefcase. And

um and he said that they were very intimidating. They said, "You don't you didn't see what you you

know, you didn't see that you're there and if you ever talk about it, things are going

to get very weird for you. Not that we're going to hunt you down and kill you. They're going to

get very weird for you." Which is kind of spooky. It's you know what I mean? Do you think they were

maybe like the proverbial men in black? Well, I you know, it's so funny because I'd heard about

these so-called men in black stuff dating back to the to the '90s when I was investigating and

I was like I investigated the Phoenix Lights case and and a lot of the witnesses hate when you say

Phoenix Lights. They're like, "Wasn't a bunch of lights. It was a massive craft, you know,

like I can see the compartments. It flew right over my Yeah. The governor has now admitted is

real." And Kurt Russell saw while he was flying his plane with his son. He said he could land his

airplane on or something. There you go. Yeah. So, we're going into Phoenix and uh there's

these bank of lights, six lights in the shape of a triangle going back right over the airport. So,

I was investigating that case and I was working with a woman who was the council woman Francis

Emma Barwood and um I was interviewing her and of course I was going after the governor but at

the time I wasn't getting any traction with that and I was interviewing all the witnesses and and

uh there was one guy uh a Vietnam vet and he contacted Emma Francis Barwood one of the few

elected officials council woman that that was willing to hey all she said was, "Let's

investigate what happened, what these people saw." Like, let's just, you know, she was lamb based in

the press. Oh my gosh. You can go see. They were making fun of her. This guy reached out to her,

and I know this cuz I was investigating at the time. I was in touch with her, and he said,

"Hey, um, I understand you want to know more about this crap. I I'm a Vietnam vet. I was on my roof

that night trying to get a a video on a tripod of hellbob comment because the hellbob was over the

sky, you know, and um and I have a a CB radio and I was listening to the truckers come up Interstate

10 from Tucson and they were all describing this massive boomerang shaped craft and I realized,

[ __ ] this thing's coming right my way. So he he said, "I I I was all set up with a tripod and

a camera and I filmed it going right over the top of my house. Got great footage. Would you like to

see it?" She's like, "Yeah, I'd love to see it." So, uh, they make arrangements where he was going

to drop it off at her office. I don't know if it was later that day or the very next morning

or that night, two men roll up in a unmarked government vehicle and suits and he's like,

he goes, "They were very intimidating to look at me and they were like in these dark suits. It

was really hot and uh, the only thing they really asked me was, you know, they said they were from

France." They they're like, "We're from Francis Emma Barwood's office. We're here to pick up the

And he was like, "Oh, I was going to drop it off, but I guess I don't have to." And he said,

"The only question they asked is, uh, did they make did he make any copies?" And he said,

"No, I didn't." And so they took the they took the footage and left. And a couple days go by,

he doesn't hear from Emma. So he calls her up. He goes, "Hey, what did you think of the footage?"

She goes, "What do you mean, what did I think of the footage? I didn't get the footage." He goes,

"Well, you had two men from your office show up." She goes, "I didn't send anybody

around." So that was like the first time that I really heard about these so-called men in black.

That was in the '9s. Yeah. No, this is made fun of movie. Exactly. But but but Richard Dolan, you

great UFO researchers write about this phenomenon happening time time and time and time again. You

you have another example uh which you cover in uh the phenomenon or I think in the program actually

two witnesses were out hiking. They then saw a large diamondshaped craft hovering. It didn't

move. It just hovered in the air without making any any noise. The witnesses looked at this for

a while and one of them had a camera. When the jet came along, they sort of stuck the camera out from

behind the bush and snapped six frames. the the two witnesses that took the photographs took like

six prints, five prints, like color, points of reference, broad daylight, two witnesses,

military jet in the background. Like, it doesn't get much better than that. Mhm. And he was like,

these men in black rolled up. They were having their cigarette break. They were [ __ ]

spooks. They were men in black and they stood outside in the pissing rain speaking to them.

So any case, when I got to the Fargi case with the men in black, I was like, "Oh my god, these guys."

Again, I'd heard I could give you I could go go on for 5 hours, but it doesn't matter. My point

is I went all in on that. Yeah. And I did cover a little bit with the 1966 uh Westall UFO incident,

the landing, when I got a hold of Mr. Greenwood, the the science professor. That's a whole story

about how I got him to go on camera. I remember when I arrived in Australia, all the seasoned

you UFO researchers were like, "Don't even bother. You know, this guy will never come

forward. We've been trying for 50 years." I said, "Just get me in the room with him." And there's a

great story behind how that whole thing goes. But he talks about these guys, the intimidation. They

showed up at his door. They're in suits like, you know what I mean? Some unmarked government agency

threatening him like putting the the fear of God in this guy. And yeah, so if you talk to Richard

Dolan about who the Men in Black are, he seems to think OSI. No. Well, this is really trippy.

He thinks it's like counter intel on behalf of the NHI or the aliens or the ETSs because if you

if you think about it the level of rapid response the ability to show up and like you know kind of

know everything about like it's either like in 1996 we had way more of like like think about

199 1996 the the consumer internet wasn't really a thing like you know who knows how much information

the government like maybe the US government had a lot of information on its citizens but did they

have information on a citizen of Ar Virginia on a you know this guy who's a pilot in Virginia and a

and a geography teacher in Sa Paulo probably not you know and then the ability to show up a couple

hours after he had seen this crash craft so Dza did he see any beings with the cra he just saw

the the crash just saw the craft and I asked him I said it was the was the the section that was still

intact. Was it big enough to have people Oh, yes. He said no question. Now, uh did he see inside it?

Not that I'm aware of. Okay. Yeah, I didn't ask him that question. That's a good question. Yeah.

I think if he had seen inside, he would have told me, but he said there was a se it wasn't there for

very long, but just a few minutes. But the section was intact that was still there and it was about

half half the size of what it was when it hit when it impacted. 7 days after SAS witnessed the crash,

Kuber Lada leaves this gym when he and several friends see two military trucks driving into town.

They follow them through the neighborhood and come upon a military blockade. We tried to force our

way through and they raise their rifles, their weapons. Did you get did you all feel scared at

that moment on that day? The only time I felt fear was when the so in uh when the soldier raised his

rifle because until then I had never seen such a large weapon and no one had ever pointed a gun in

my direction, you know. And you have some reason to believe that two or three beings came out and

that and one of the beings and you have you have the that you have the mayor on record testifying

to this. The mayor's nephew's girlfriend was one of the three girls that saw one of the beings. The

news has just arrived at this very moment. Dgeras have spotted some kind of creature up there close

to the Marakon gymnasium just around the corner from the military blockade. Three young girls had

an encounter of the third kind. The sisters Valkyria, who is 14 years old, and Lilian,

who is 16 years old, are also very frightened. It's the first time they've come back to this very

place since Saturday, January 20th. That strange round thing. Wow. It was incredibly strange. And

it had these things like horns right on its head. Its skin was brown. And it looked like it had

some some kind of oil all over its body. It had a huge foot. and its eyes were super wide and red.

And then I think you have some reason to believe that one of the beings made its way over the hill

and possibly towards the water and then was captured with a net. Is that right? Yeah,

that was the fire department earlier. That's why I keep I keep thinking because that one

was alive because we have testimony of someone that was in the area when it was it was in a net.

They captured it with a net like they would with a wild animal or something like that. And but it

was screaming like a little baby. That's what they say. Screaming like a child. Screaming

like a child. Yeah. The fire department was dispatched to this location after receiving

several calls from concerned residents who reported seeing something strange in the area.

First of all, I'd like to take a quick moment to acknowledge all the Brazilian

UFO researchers that have done a stellar job helping expose this story. Cladio Kovo, Pakuchini,

Uber Dejada Rodriguez, Marco Pati, AJ Gavard, I mean these guys that came before us, you know,

um Marco Leal's been been on it for over 20 years, my partner. He's amazing.

Um, and the persistence of of of of all of them and Marco and I knocking on doors like

going downtown putting up signs like leading us to people like I just want to give one example

of how we got to the girls cuz the girls are like this is not a career-enhancing move for

these girls in a small town to be talking about. They got made fun of, ridiculed,

laughed at. Like their life was a living hell. Men in black showed up at their mom's house. And they

got offered cash to retract their statements and they did not. They did not. And the mother said,

"I will not have my daughters are not liars. That will not that will not happen." That's right. They

were very intimidating to her. And like so all this pressure and all this, you know, but I I

was there with I was in Virginia. I'm gonna say it was my second or third time. And it was probably

2012 would be my guess. And I was doing a silly TV show, which I'm not proud of at all. My bad, but

whatever. It got me to where I am now, I guess. And I was from National Geographic. Oh god, it was

so bad. Sorry, guys. And And we were out wandering in the in the jungle at night and I got bit by a

spider. Oh. And it was like midnight or something. She had no business out. So silly. I got bit by a

spider and by the fang marks, it looked like it could have been a Brazilian wandering spider,

which is deadly. They get me to this clinic and they had to do an antivenenom and I was up all

night getting this drip feed. And then the next day I didn't get any sleep and the camera crew,

the whole team, they were like, "We're going here and we got this scheduled." And I was like, "I've

been up all night, man. Like I I I'm on camera TV talent and you guys are expecting I I was like at

the very least I need to stop at a cafe and get a get a a juice cuz like Brazil is known for having

incredible juice, right? Fresh juice. I love it. Mango, papaya, whatever." And they were like,

"No, no, no. We don't have time. and we don't have time. And and I was like, I you know, I

and the car was stopped. The van that I was in was stopped at a stoplight and I just opened the door

and got out. I was like, you guys leave without me. I'm not I need some juice. I need something.

I need something to nourish me. So, I walked into this random like cafe juice bar and I'm in there

ordering and uh this guy's looking at me and I think he said something in English like, "Hey, are

you what are you are you American?" I was like, "Yeah, what are you what are you doing here?"

And I was like, "Oh, I'm kind of working with a TV show, you know, covering the Var the 1996 Varia

incident." He goes, "Oh my gosh, I dated one of the girls." I said, "Really?" And uh we're trying

to reach them. We're trying to find them. And he goes, "Let me hang on." Takes his phone out.

Boom. Gets her on the phone. Hey, what's it going to take? And that's how we first met. Whoa. And

so had I not been bitten by the You know what I mean? Like the way it all went down. Yeah. I know.

That's crazy. Really crazy, right? The creature was there and we just came by this way. I didn't

realize that's closer than I expected. It's like 8 ft away and he was absolutely sweltering, sweating

profusely and it was incredibly hot. And so he was uh going through it, you know, suffering from the

intense heat, the scorching sun and the effect it had on his skin. Remember I said, "Hey everyone,

look over there." Then he turned, I saw his eyes and I immediately ran away. So when he turned,

we could only see his eyes and what looked like a slit, but we couldn't really tell if

he had a normal mouth like ours or something else entirely. When they locked eyes with this being,

what were they thinking? Well, it wasn't a human that we saw, honestly. It wasn't an

animal either. And so these days, I truly believe it's a being from another planet.

back then, you know, we were always in pause. We were children of Catholic parents,

right? Pause. And that it could be a demon. So that's why we ended up being afraid back then,

you know. So the three girls run to her house and they say, "We saw this creature. We might have

been the devil." Or whatever it was. And they do they do they get in the car and drive here?

Do they walk here? How did they get here? And what did they see when they got here? She said,

"Let's go there in the pickup truck." And I told her, "I'm not going. I'm too scared. I won't

come back." Then Louisa asked, "Please, won't you come with me?" So, I finally got into the pickup

truck and we came back. We ended up stopping right here. Look, in that very spot, I saw the

creature's track its foot. I will never forget it. I swear to God. Oh, I'm still trembling.

Do you want to see one toe, then another long toe, and then another toe like this look smaller? Yes.

Roughly 3 hours after the girls witnessed the strange creature, military police officers Eric

Lopes and Marco Cherzi drive down this road on the lookout for something unusual when suddenly

it runs right across their path. These military personnel exited the vehicle. Uh these soldiers,

but most notably Marco Hizer uh wrestled with this creature to bring it under control.

It was captured by March with his bare hands easily and taken to the hospital.

So what happens is Marco Sharesi, who's this soldier, apprehends this alien being,

grabs him. Yep. Brings him into the vehicle, right? Yep. No hesitation. Puts him on puts it

on his lap. It's so wild. And then he ends up with this gnarly bacterial infection. And I don't want

to get too too into the details because Chris Ramsay is going to do an amazing follow-up with

you kind of which double clicks on this autopsy. But you have the autopsy of this soldier who's

died because he basically grabbed an alien being and and it shows bacteria. Yeah. You the guy the

founder of the company IPD and you could get the it's an acronym, but the founder of the company,

Dr. Janini, and the guy that did the autopsy on the deceased military officer, Dr. Armando,

um participated on camera for this cut of the movie. Yeah, it's amazing. You have the the

found you have the the guy who provided the the report and all the infrastructure for the

report. The one who founded the company and the guy who founded the company and and and the the

autopsy guy both saying and they're using words like you get goosebumps and and then they're the

ones speculating that the that the claw from the ET must have punctured the skin. And it's like he

said the bacteria most likely came from the under the nail of the ET, which didn't mean to like it

wasn't like an evil ET that tried to kill this guy. He just like accidentally in the process of

grabbing it, he got a little scratch right under his armpit. Based on the circumstantial evidence

that has come to my attention, it was a very distinct and deliberate scratch on Zerz's skin,

clearly inflicted by ET. I truly believe he was a victim of of Vit's nail, you know, his sharp claw.

Why was it so resistant? What biochemical gain did it possess to completely escape the antibiotics?

It just sailed through destroying everything in just one week. That's very, very atypical.

Yeah, I won't go into detail about it, but basically never before and never since. Yeah,

they've never seen anything like this bacteria. This is was an advanced bacteria that did things

that nothing on Earth, no bacteria on Earth does. And you see them in the movie saying that. It's

like incredible. And it's not anonymous. They're not doing this anonymously. Neither is the

neurosurgeon. Yeah. Neither is the neurosurgeon. And he's still working at the hospital today.

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they tried to suppress this report and Marco Sharesi's sister who tried to get Yes. basically

had to sue them and rest the out of them. The wife couldn't get the the the autopsy report from her

husband. That's crazy. And she was like pregnant at the time. It's horrible. You know, yeah. God,

that was one thing that Dr. Roger Lear, thank you Dr. Roger Lear for tracking down the 2002.

After a protracted legal battle, the family finally received the death certificate. It

was produced by IPD Laboratory, the Institute of Prevention and Diagnostics in Virginia.

All the witnesses that claim that Marco Terresy handled a creature,

a strange creature, it doesn't have to be from another world. It was

a strange creature. He gets some unknown infection. You did everything you could to

save him and he died. Do you believe that there's some credibility to that story?

for

define Martyr. the sister of the deceased military officer, Marco Shrezy. They she'd gone off. I

mean, yeah, she'd spoken publicly at the time of the incident, year two, three, whatever,

and then just kind of people pulled back. There was just nothing to gain and everything to lose,

like just going up against, you know, Goliath. And uh people just want their lives back,

you know. And um and I went downtown and I was I was talking to I would look in the downtown

plaza downtown Varia and I would look for old people cuz I was like all right these pop you

know and I'd walk up and I was just asking and I remember my sound guy was from Rio and he was like

he looked at me he was like dude are you insane like what are you doing? Like I was like you know

if I have a 00001% chance I'm going for it every time right? And so I was just going up and then I

found this one old guy and he's like, "Oh yeah, I think I know. She moved to this location that and

we're driving around a random goose chase. We're going to knocking on doors in random places." 3

or 4 hours later, we knock on this one door. Door opens. There's Marcos's sister, Marta, who's like,

and I remember my sound guy looks over me. He goes, "You're the luckiest son of a [ __ ] I think

I've ever met." I said, "No, well, not necessarily all luck." I was knocking on doors to find her.

And um uh her husband was very protective and he was wearing this white wife beater and he was just

ripped and he was like standing in the background like you give me the nod and I'm going to rip

this guy's head off like to me, right? And and she doesn't know who the hell I am, right? Everyone's

paranoid. Like I'm some American. And I said, "I'm here to give your your your brother justice,

to give your brother a voice." And that broke the tension immediately. Yes. And I was like, "Okay,

let's talk." And then we and then that's how I got in with Marta Tvarus. When her brother falls ill,

she asks about his involvement with the case. And this is the story, the creature from outer

space. Look, this story will be a big deal. So one So one of the beings gets captured with a

net. Yeah. The the other being So the only Yeah. the only two really solid ones that we have,

but we have information on others, uh, up to five, but again, I only reported on two because that was

the most concrete eyewitness testimony that we could get our hands on. And that was one capture

in the morning by the fire department with a net. Apparently, that one died, but that's the one that

was crying. And then the the other one which was Marco Sharice and Eric Lopes. And it's interesting

actually cuz when you watch the movie and a lot of people miss this when we doorstepped Eric Lopes

and a lot of people a lot of people criticize us for that. Like how could you just doorstep

this guy? You just show up at his house. It's like well we exhausted every other possible avenue for

decades. All the researchers had like he wasn't talking period. And he was the the military

transport guy. He was the one driving the car when his fellow intelligence officer, police officer,

Marco Shares, jumped out and grabbed it because the being was in the way of went right across

the road right in front of him. Yeah. And it was just a couple blocks away from where the girls

had seen this creature just two hours earlier and Eric Lopes said, "I will deter you with bullets

or something like he threatened you." He said he'd shoot you. But before he said that, he's like, "If

you're here to talk about the ET, he he he won't talk." He referred to himself in the third person.

It's kind of like It's kind of like the police showing up at your door at a party and you know

and you answer the door, you see the police and you go, "There's no drugs in this house."

It's like the police like, "I didn't ask you about any drugs, but now that you mention it,

it's interesting." You know, he said, "If you're here to talk about the ET,

something like if you're here to talk about the ET, he won't talk." Yeah. Yeah. We didn't even

say anything yet. We have said hello. So well that plus threatening to shoot you I think is

you know not a normal reaction. He's like they he he brought the ET up. We didn't bring the

ET up. He did. Yeah. So it's like read between the lines there. Tacid admission of something.

Yeah. And and and when I when I was standing there trying to make sense of what was going on cuz it

was like everything was happening really quickly and they were talking, you know, and like I speak

French and I speak a little Spanish and I could really like when I'm in the field, I really want

to understand what's being said. Even when I was in China, I was like learning Chinese. Like I I

just I have to be able to communicate. So I I can I have this level of focus where I really try. But

these things were happening really quickly. He was making threats, I guess, about shooting me

and shooting everybody else, even there was a 10-year-old kid there. And I'm looking in the

eyes of this guy, and he's up, he's like up in a window on the second floor looking down at us. And

he's got something in one hand, and I don't know what if he had a gun or what, whatever he had,

but he's military intelligence. He's P2, like he probably doesn't have any problem,

you know? I'm sure he's armed with the teeth. But I'm looking in his eyes and and and I hear all

this commotion going around me. But I had a moment where time almost stopped and I looked into this

guy's eyes and I I just saw eyes of someone that I've never I never seen before because like they

look so griefstricken. They looked so sad. Like I was just like I it's like time stopped and I'm

looking in this guy's eyes and I've never seen eyes like that before. Like if you can imagine

harboring or witnessing a murder or something really intense and then having to be quiet

about it because maybe your family's threatened or your life's threatened or who knows what. Like and

you had to harbor that for the better part of 30 years. Like the toll that would take on you. Well,

you you see it even even you hear it with with what he says to you in the movie and you and

you sense that he's been threatened, his family's been threatened, and that he probably feels like

kind of half a man or something like he's been, you know, he's been submitted uh through force.

So, Eric Eric won't talk. What What just happened? I'm trying. What happened? Is that Eric Lopez? Who

is that? Yeah, Eric Lopez. That's Eric Lopez. He doesn't want to talk at all. Terina. Termin.

Let's go. Oh my god. That was Eric Lopez. Briada. Just saw him. Oh yeah. Yay. What happened? Okay.

Okay. We'll go talk. Did you get him, Dave? Did you get him? Please tell me you got him. [ __ ]

That was Eric Lopez. [ __ ] God. You get him in the window. Yeah. [ __ ] If that guy had nothing

to hide, he would have just said so. That guy was driving the car. Yeah. That Marco Trezy was in.

We received an unexpected request for a meeting from the chief neurosurgeon at Hospital Regional,

the same hospital where military police officers Marco Shereice and Eric Lopes

allegedly had taken the live alien they'd captured on the road. Dr. Italo Venturelli,

the head neurosurgeon at Hospital Regional, was on duty in the ICU when he had the most

extraordinary encounter of his life. In this room or which room? This room right here.

Was alive in this bed right there. So he saw he saw the creature right there was right there

watching the video on the surgery. His eyes they were like a teardrops red much redder especially

right here you know and he was well partially covered he was right here you know but he was

he was still alive he looked at the in the eyes of the creature yes in this bed in this in this

bed and what what did the creature say to you I saw the red eyes his face was white his eyes

were red and he wasn't showing any suffering at all now if there was perh Perhaps a possible

telepathic communication. Yes. Yes. Right there you see as if to say you know something like I'm

perfectly fine. I've been well looked after. He said yes for sure. A communication as someone

would say yes I am okay. I've received care. That's what he felt from the the expression

of the being to speak without speaking. It spoke without smiling. According to Dr. Itala,

a being underwent a procedure by his colleague, fellow neurosurgeon Dr. Marcos Venio Neves, who

died in 2018 of a heart attack. The other primary witness was his partner, uh, fellow neurosurgeon

who was slightly below him, Marcos Vinesis. And Marcos Vinesis, uh, there's a lot to that story

as well. Um, he had a heart attack in 2018. He didn't survive and he passed and he did surgery

on he did a little he did a procedure on the bean. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I know. That's so And and so he he

died in 2018 after 2018. Yes. And Venturelli um he said he was face to face with this being and and

what did he what did he describe as far as that interaction? He said that this is incredible. It's

hard to kind of wrap my mind around it. you know, it's like I've had very I've only had a couple of

um cases where I'm almost kind of pinching myself during filming. One of them was with

the former governor of Arizona, F. Simington, when he confessed after 10 years that he had not only

um believed about the Phoenix Lights case, but that he too was a witness to the event and then

he looked into it and and he he as a pilot in the Air Force, he said that thing could not have been

from here. And I said, "How did you know that, Governor?" And he goes, "Because of its size

and its flight characteristics, it couldn't have been from here. It had to be otherworldly is how

he put it. And that was a moment in my career where I honestly, and I'm not just making this

up. I remember sitting in my chair and I'm going, did did the governor of of Arizona just say that

he too saw it and that he looked into it and he felt it was other worldly? And I'm like,

I think I must be dreaming. And so I'm like pinching my I I literally grabbed my leg and

I pinched it and and I was like, no, I I feel that I'm not I'm not dreaming. Then I said,

"I bet the cameras aren't rolling." So I looked over at the camera to see if the, you know, and

then when we were with Dr. Itelo, the neurosurgeon in regional hospital that he just snuck us in the

back gate like, you know, with all cameras rolling and the audio guys and everything and then he

starts talking about like this is the bed, this is the ICU. I was like, "Holy [ __ ] this guy's

just going full Komodo." Like he's just saying the hell with it. Whatever the consequences, this is

what happened. I was here. I sat with it in this bed right here in this room for 3 to four minutes.

After several minutes of interaction with the being in this exact ICU at Hospital Reginal,

Dr. Retalo told us the military burst in and took the being, then threatened the hospital

staff to remain silent. Ask him how it feels to be sharing this information after 29 years.

Excuse me.

So this is you have a neurosurgeon who's you know again extremely credentialed. Everything to lose

nothing to had some health scares and giving you this testimony and he freaks out. He's going to

lose his job. He ends up giving you the testimony in the cafe. His his good friend had done surgery

on the being, a procedure, Marcos Vinesis. Marcos Vinesis. Did he say anything about that surgery?

Because what is surgery like on an alien being? So apparently it was uh and and I'm not qualified to

do you know I'm not a neurosurgeon but from what I understand is that there was swelling from head

trauma and that he had released the pressure by putting I guess they do a little hole or something

like that where it releases the pressure. It was something like that. It was a procedure to release

the Uhhuh. from a head trauma. See I would imagine it was maybe something to do with the accident. I

I don't know. But no, but no, but that that is that sort of satisfies like if I were to throw

any sort of skepticism at this, it would be um you know, how are you dealing with alien organs? Like

what do you don't really know what to do, you know, but if it's just a like a head pressure,

you know, release or something that that makes some sense to me. Could have been head How did

he protect himself from the bacteria if he's doing was he was he just like who's in the ICU? Everyone

in the ICU has full protective gear on. Yep. Yep. Cuz we even just to walk in with no patient,

we had to put all the gear on. You can't go into the ICU without it. Y you got face masks, gloves,

everything, apron. And and it was probably with Marcos Teresi. Um there was probably

some interaction with his blood cuz he there was a maybe a a punctured wound or something. And so,

you know, I wish like hell Marcos Finesis hadn't died for so many reasons. I mean interviewing a

guy who's done surgery on an alien being I know it's really frustrating. However,

we have not given up. Like I said, by the time your audience watches this,

I'd already been back and we have a huge meeting with all the doctors. As many as we can get. So,

have you talked to his family at all? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Marcus Vinesis. Oh, Marcos Vinesis's

daughter. Marcos Vinesis's he had a mistress and he had a he had a kid with the mistress. We we

we talked with the the wife and um did they all say that? No, they were very guarded. Okay. But

not like no it didn't happen like okay well you know like guard what you come in as outsiders to

a place. It takes a while like like it took when the film came out and that was actually one of

the reasons why the the the police officer he's like you're doing a serious investigation. And

one of the reasons why I'm talking to you is you you're investigating something that

I participate in. Like you you clearly are taking this seriously. I'm I'm I'm providing a platform.

We are providing a platform for people to come forward and not be ridiculed, not be laughed at,

taken seriously and like you know kind of like first time in decades, right? So they're seeing

this is a real effort to really get the truth out and it's power in numbers, you know, and

um um and again I I I think this is the beginning of the beginning on this case. I I I believe that

I mean this is an extremely compelling like new account, new cut of the of the case, but I think

it's going to get better. Yeah. Well, I think if you believe that, that's going to determine the

outcome because you're the prime mover of a lot of this stuff. And I I know you've given credit,

as it's due, to many uh of these local Brazilian UFO researchers. Uh but I think as far as mass

exposure, you are you are helping them, you know, really get this thing out. You keep going back.

And so I really admire that. If this were a court case, you would have an overwhelming amount of

evidence that something happened. Whatever the thing is that you're trying to prove in court,

this would be far beyond the threshold of evidence that you would need. I think we could sway any

jury. I think you could sway any jury. And so the vent rally thing is just fascinating. You

you end up in a cafe with him. Yeah. He gets very emotional. He starts crying because clearly he's

held this in for 29 years. 29 years. And can you imagine the weight of that on your shoulders? No,

I can't. And you're watching all this speculation. And you're watching all this conjecture, all this

media coverage, the debunking going on from the military, like excuse me, the witnesses, you know,

adamantly saying, you know, this is what I saw, particularly those the three girls, you know,

and then knowing that you sat in the hospital room in the ICU with a live captured alien and

had direct telepathic communication face to face. Face to face, man. Eye to eye. Doesn't get any

more incredible than that. Like, as someone who's been around the world, Yeah. interviewed people

like you know you have close encounters of the third kind you know where people claim you know

entities connected to a craft that's in the wild I mean it happened in Rua that happened in Sakoro

um you know lots of cases in China you know all around the world but that's like people seeing a

landed craft and seeing entities connected allegedly to the craft and that's close

thrift but to actually have an alien alleged alien in captivity and having direct contact,

direct communication. He said, "You look into the eyes of this creature and despite the fact that

it was in captivity, it had control of the whole room." Usually the person experiencing the thing

is kind of discreditable. Often they live in, you know, somewhere in the woods or something.

The interaction occurs in some remote place and it's just this kind of inherently ephemeral thing

where you have to take their word for it. I would actually say those people are sort of

more trustworthy in some ways than like you know uh often people who are kind of insidery types or

whatever. But in this case you have a person whose credentials are unimpeachable. He runs a chain of

hospitals. He you know people are are their lives are on the line. Works on people's brains. Works

on people's brains. He's a neurosurgeon. He's a concert pianist. And you know, clearly all

of the incentives go in the direction of him not revealing any of this stuff. And because he's had

a couple of life life-threatening illnesses and scares, he comes out and speaks to you.

What does he say about his interaction with the being? The being was very calm and it was it was

uh it had sort of acquiesced to being in captivity and it was very calm and that it was it was okay

that it it wasn't suffering, it wasn't in pain. Um and he said when he looked into the eyes of it,

it read his mind like it could just read all of his thoughts. He's like it was an advanced

intelligence. And I kept saying like, "What do you mean by that?" He goes, "There's nothing

here on earth like it." He called it like an angel. And it was it was um compassionate,

caring, like an advanced intelligence. And I said, "Explain that." He goes, "Way more advanced than

anything on earth. Way more advanced than than myself. Just way beyond." and that you and he

said one of the last things he said was there's so much to learn from the eyes of that being

we have so much to learn in the eyes of this being just looking into the eyes and it's just

amazing to think you know think about that and you know you hear other cases in the wild

where people talk about you know looking in the eyes of the creature ru Zimbabwe

you know, Sakor, New Mexico. I remember the wife of Lonnie Zamora looking at me and she goes,

"I don't know what happened when he looked at that creature, but he was never the same." Like the

there's some communication that occurs with the eyes. And that's exactly what he said. He said,

"There's so much to learn from them." And they were advanced, like more advanced somehow than

than human consciousness, which is And then what did he say about the physical

characteristics? Um big big head, almond shaped eyes. is they were red. Now, interestingly,

the skin was more white than brown. And I don't know, this is just speculation,

but when the girls came in contact with this bean that was most likely the same bean that he had in

the hospital because the ch like the girls saw it, they got within 10 ft of it, it was really hot. It

was a really hot day in the summertime, January summer over in Brazil, and it was suffering.

It was like kind of exuding some kind of weird smell like almost like a skunk would, you know,

when it's fearful or feeling threatened or vulnerable. But his eyes were red. His skin

was oily. I couldn't see him with an open mouth laughing. No, not happy, but sad, hunched over,

pale and sad. And he had no hair. And and I saw that he was frightened. Just as I was frightened,

the creature was also frightened. the des the fear that we ourselves possess just as we became afraid

of this this being whose nature we do not know and it was suffering and the girls said it was

suffering in fact when when all three girls came into contact with that creature two of them the

two sisters grabbed each other by the hand and hightailed it out of there and they realized they

had left Katya behind Katya was the oldest she was probably 21 and um and Vyia and Liliani, the two

sisters stopped and realized, shoot, we got to go back and get Katya. And Katya was locked eyes with

this creature. And uh it was pleading to her cuz I asked Katya, what was it saying? It was like,

I need help. And it was suffering. I need help. It wanted help. And I just thought, my gosh,

can you imagine how different would have been if they'd gone with if the girls had taken the

creature and and hidden or you know, who knows, like given it aid or whatever. Anyway, the girl

uh Lilani Katya stayed behind. The youngest, she was like maybe 14. Liliani was 16. Katya was 21.

Uh Lilani ran back and grabbed Katya and yanked her out of there. And then the reason why we're

pretty sure that that's the same being that uh Dr. Italo had uh direct telepathic communication

with in captivity is because we did all aerial photography of the area. And if you look at where

the girls came in, counter it, like late afternoon with the creature, just a few blocks away is where

the capture occurred. It had to be the same being. It was just literally two blocks away from where

the um two military officers, Marco Shares and Eric Lopes, captured the creature around 6:00,

something like that, about 2 hours later, two two and a half. And then they took it to one little

um clinic and apparently the doctor came out and took one look in the back seat and there was you

know Marco Sharice military officer with this creature on his and he's like I don't know what

that thing is but get it out of here. So then they went to regional hospital and that's where it was.

So it makes perfectly good sense. He knew that that creature went to regional and so it went

it when the women saw it, it was like brown or darker. And then when he saw it, it was somehow

wider. It was it was more of a white big red eyes just like the girls described. The little ridges

on the on the forehead just like that. Spindly arms, same height, same exact body structure,

everything exactly the same, but the skin was more white. And do you think it was because it had was

emitting the ammonia or sulfur? Cuz both everybody says that it was smelled like rotten eggs. It was

ammonia or sulfur or some some sort of smell. She immediately smelled ammonia. It was like rotten

eggs. A very strong odor. I had to cover my nose with the shirt I was wearing. I couldn't stand

the smell that was right here inside my nose. It lasted for about 20 days. And I have no idea where

that awful odor came from. I even went so far as to wash my nose with alcohol and water just to

get rid of that smell. Stayed in the sin in the sinuses for days if not weeks. And like um there

was another one which was one which was one of the deceased ones. We interviewed a radiologist and I

think he was at regional hospital. Pretty sure it was regional. And uh he said that the room where

the he did the performance of doing the X-rays that stank like for they had to close that wing

of the hospital down for days and they disinfected the whole thing and he said it took days and it

was in his sinuses. It was everywhere. Did the smell leave? But even after being washed and

disinfected, the epidemic smell still lingered in the ward. In fact, our sector was closed because

it couldn't accommodate external patients due to the very strong odor. So, we're having a big

meeting in a week. Uh-huh. We're meeting with uh pretty much all the doctors. Wow. Yeah. Some

of them, you know, at Humanitos Hospital, uh have stories. Some of them aren't ready to come forward

just yet. Some of them might want to come forward. But there's power in numbers, strength in numbers.

And um according to the book by Roger Lear uh there was another creature that was alive that

went under a procedure cuz a lot of them got hurt in the crash evidently um that also had

communication with the two doctors but they're at heas. So we're trying to find those guys right now

and Roger Leier was contacting me. It was probably 2013 and he was like I know you're doing something

on on Virginia and I got to talk to you. I got to talk to you. I said yeah we definitely got to

talk. Let me come. I got to go on camera. there's things I need to discuss. And uh and I said I kept

like postponing and postponing. I was so busy. I was working like 17our days. I was so busy I could

barely talk. And um he goes, "Well," he got really angry with me. And he was like, "Well, if you're

not going to meet with me, I said, "Oh, Dr. Leer, Roger, I it's not that I don't want to meet with

you. I just I I don't have the bandwidth right now." And he goes, "Well, look, take my tapes."

Gives me his tapes. And I don't know how much time went by, but I don't know. can't I I can't say uh

but I transferred the tapes, I sent them back to him and he died. And then uh fast forward and that

was very unfortunate. Fast forward probably to 10 years I'm guessing or is making moment of contact

because I I was going to include uh Virginia in the phenomenon and then I I just couldn't squeeze

it in. It was too there's too many moving parts. Anyway, so when I was making the whole movie on

it, I was like, "Oh shit." I was like the the Roger Lear tapes. So I got the tapes. He wrote a

book. got the book and the book was a transcript transcription from the tapes because I had the

tapes and I read the book and uh but there was one section that wasn't in the tapes that was in

the book and that was he met with two doctors from humanitas hospital and they talk about a creature

that was also undergoing some sort of procedure at Humanatas and then all of a sudden there's this

crazy thing that occurs in the room where there's this communication and weird smoke and just crazy

and the communication It was basically like the the entity saying to the doctors that we feel

sorry for you the human race because you don't realize your potential who you really are. Really?

Yes. Which is the same message that the Zimbabwe Yes. It's the same message where these school

children get where it's like you don't understand how special your you are and your potential true

potential and stuff like this. So, I was like, "Oh my gosh, if I can just get the name." And

apparently, uh, Uber Dejardo Rodriguez, who's one of the lead investigators, a lawyer, um, who's

gone, I don't know what happened to him. Pacchini got threatened. He disappeared for 20 years. Uber

Rodriguez, God knows what he has because he hasn't come forward and said yet. Pacchini apparently was

shot at. Really? Yeah. He talks about it recently cuz he disappeared for 20 years. Where's Pacini?

He said he was shot at. was shot at and he had a gun and and he shot back. And he says he would put

his right hand on the Bible. Yes. He said he would testify like like he would he he would put his

right hand on a Bible and he would take a public lie detector test about there being video and

footage of this alien that he saw. I'm Victoria Pakini. I am one of the leading investigators of

the Virginia incident since the very beginning. I know and I saw with my own eyes an alien creature

kept in captivity in this 35 second video. It was right there. One of the alien creatures with two

militaries holding the creature by the shoulders. The creature was really ill, was not feeling

good at all. They tried to give the creature some fruit and water. It didn't accept. And the reason

why they filmed this creature without superior authorization, it's because they were pretty mad

that the American militaries were coming to Brazil to take all these material, not only the pictures,

the footage, but the creatures itself and the spacecraft as they took it to the United States.

So some other military's friend of mine had the chance without authorization to make this movie.

And right now I'm willing to put my right hand tomorrow on a Bible and take a live public lie

detector test that everything I'm telling you is the truth. Yeah. Now he grew up in Tres Coro

which is like the region Mus where where the as a military base is. So he knew all those people

that worked at the base they knew him. He grew up there. So like after all the investigations

his life threatened and all the stuff that went down he said he disappeared. I think he went to

go live with his mother or something somewhere for 20 years. And then when Moment of Contact,

the first version came out in 2022, that's when Pacini came back on the radar and it was like,

"Hey, you know what? I'm ready to get back in the ring." Yeah. And and and finish this fight. And

so, yeah. So, you have you have multiple people in the hospital system. You you've now gotten

milit military whistleblowers. You have civilian witnesses. I have the guy that drove it. You have

the guy that drove the being. Yeah. that saw it and drove it to say like the amount of disperate

uncorrelated sources I think is just unbelievable. And that comes from you literally touching down in

Virginia and on a piece of paper like do you know what happened in 1996? What does he think about

the case? Does he think it happened or it didn't happen? Absolutely. What are your feelings on?

You have two types of people in this movie. People who are extremely afraid and admitting what they

saw. And all of those stories line up. Everything lines up perfectly. It all lines up perfectly.

Path of the UFO. You have all these witnesses in these desperate, you know, places who aren't

coordinating clearly. And then so that's one type of person. And then you have the other type of

people that are like lying through their teeth and so obvious like the the commander at so General

Lima and he said we're in touch with him now by the way. Oh amazing. You got you got to talk to

him because even if he lies to you know it's like you see you see the smuggness when he he goes um

you know we were serving our country that day. Can we get some can we get some details on like how

you served the country that day? What you did? He said no absolutely not. And but he says it in such

a like a condescending, cynical, like I don't care what you think sort of way and then walks away.

else.

There was another part to this when interviews were conducted and that's when Uklides and Cal

the two young men from here traveled all the way to the Sergeant's school of arms in Tres Corason.

Then they managed to to ask a question. Then the sergeant went inside, came back and said,

"No, but aren't you going to say anything about the case? Look, if you ask one more question,

you'll be arrested." We were investigating the case at the ESA headquarters, the Sergeant School

of Arms, and I had never been arrested for doing my job, neither before nor after this case. I was

just having a normal regular day at the barracks, you know. Then around 9:00 in the morning, uh we

received orders, a mission to get some vehicles ready, you know, some trucks specifically for an

important operation and that we our unit would be deploying. We would be moving out heading directly

to the city of Virginia. We were given the order that we should proceed to follow a number of

specific vehicles which were clearly unmarked and definitely not military. So I followed this

uh military man you know who was from the secret service passing through the city center near the

hospital if I'm not mistaken the regional hospital and afterwards we went to humanitas hospital

when the instruction was given to to back a vehicle up into Humanitas hospital.

When I was approaching the entrance, how exactly can I express it of the hospital's

immediate surroundings? I noticed a container, a stainless steel table with a container on it,

you know, with several doctors and other staff members holding clipboards. Uh,

as I was analyzing, it seemed that everyone else was also caught up in the same thing.

And when I realized I saw something completely different, you know,

a different kind of creature with skin that was very oily, very I described it as having a sort

of siliconike texture. And that sight really startled me. But what truly caught my attention,

what later convinced me that it wasn't a human being at all was its foot.

Everyone was completely taken aback by the news. They were all incredibly incredibly surprised. We

have for the first time ever as well, we have the police officer which had been trying to

get to him for so long. Marco Leo was going by his house knocking on his door. He would set up

arrangements for us to meet with him. And it was always it was like slipping between your It's like

trying to grab a bar of soap in the bathtub, you know? It's like poo poo like you got your hand on

it but then it's like gone, you know? And that was the the the former chief of police, Agriar,

um Pedro Agriar, and he had he had he had a allegedly, according to people that would tracked

him down, he had a photograph of of one of the things. But anyway, um he described the activity

at the base. He was at the base as chief of police. He was invited in there and he said that

he described it just like everybody else. Every single bit of testimony from separate people from

all over the area all fits perfectly. It's like putting together a piece of puzzle, right? Not

once have we had it any other way. Like, you know, and we're putting these pieces together. So, now

the piece we're missing is on the American side and we want to get with Humanitas Hospital. So,

it's like ongoing. Yeah. Well, that the the chief police says this is not a story. It's history.

Yes. And you know, you remember well. Oh, yeah. It's a great movie and it's it's he just he said

you know this happened. I participated. He said I participated. Absolutely. And are you at all

conspiratorial about the fact that he just died and that you were about to go in a couple of weeks

to go see him? Oh, yeah. Again, I know. And and allegedly he has a photo of the ETB. Yeah. Do you

think that that timing is coincidental? I mean, anything's possible. It's very unfortunate. Was

he in good health? Do you know? I mean, he's on You see him on camera? Yeah. And that was that was

You filmed that what? You filmed that like not too long ago, right? knocked. So, it was really crazy

actually. It was just a couple months ago and um we were we were going to doorstep him on the way

to Varguo and I say doorstep and just show up at the door, right? Y and uh for some reason I was

like I want to stop and get a slice of pizza and everyone's like we got to keep moving. It was like

5:00 or 4:30 or something. I really was really hungry and I wanted to get a slice of pizza. So,

we stopped reluctantly. Half the crew was like, "Oh, we got to keep moving." Blah blah blah. Well,

as it turns out, it was perfect because we the owner of the pizza joint, you know, gave us pizza,

gave us like really good, you know, we took like an hour and we just spent a really fun time having

pizza with the owner of this pizza joint and near the area where we're going, but it set us back at

least at least 60 minutes, possibly 90 minutes. Well, you know, it was a little later. Maybe it

was like 7 7:30 at that point. And we show up at his house and they had just gotten home like 10

minutes earlier. So we would have missed him had we not gone and stopped to get that pizza. And

uh what we did was is we you know we started talking to him at the door. Then we went inside

and we had we had some we had audio. One of us had audio rolling and the guy in the car outside

had you know our sound guy had a you know it was remote transmitted back to a receiver that was

just you know the audio and then we're talking getting to know his wife his son and then I said

would you mind if we bring a camera in here just to kind of you know document the moment a little

bit just ease our way into it. No that that's okay. So in comes the camera. We're all sitting

down talking and his wife, I'll never forget this and I think I have a cut of it somewhere, but his

wife had these like her eyes were so big and like kind of just like and her wife was looking at her

husband like like just wouldn't blink. And I'm looking over at my cameraman Dave and I'm like,

"Are you getting, you know, she's just looking at him like I'm thinking, does she does she have

the photograph?" Like does who, you know, I don't know. Is she worried that we're in there probing?

Yeah. And and at one point we asked him like when things got more comfortable and he goes, "I'm a I

participated. I'm a witness." He saw the creature under a tarp, maybe the bottom half or something.

And then he went into as a military base, the activity, helicopters coming and landing. He goes,

"More brass than I'd ever seen ever before." Like there were higherups from all different corners

of Brazil all there. Maybe even implying at some point the No, he did say the Americans came. They

came to campus. He said that too. Yeah. uh and took the goodies. But um but uh he seemed to be

in relatively good health. I mean he you know he doesn't look like he was going to win like

a triathlon or anything but he was in you I mean he's in the movie. Yep. And um and he just died.

Yeah. And he might have had a photo or footage. Yeah. Well, we talked to two witnesses. The one

of the primary reasons that led us to him were two people that described he pulled the photograph out

and showed it and it had uh one alive, one one deceased creature and it had uh military police

and a and fire department uh in the picture with their faces that you know that's according

to the witnesses that we talked to. And when I pressed him on it, I don't want to push too hard

but I definitely pressed him on it. I've got the footage. He said, um, I like, well, when I talked

to you a couple years ago on a video Zoom call, you conf you confessed that you had the photograph

or at one point you had the photograph, and now you're saying you don't have the photograph. Like,

what's you know, and I really pressed him on it. Um, what did he say? He said, "Well, there's

certain things within the police department that have to go unsaid or something like that." Come

on, dude. Just let it out. you you you there's you know and I feel the frustration from people out

there like oh there's not a picture there's not a video first of all I never give up and I'm not

giving up I will never give up I'm getting closer we are as a team are getting closer and closer and

closer and the developments that are happening are unprecedented it's an ongoing investigation

I'm not giving up I think this is the case that's going to blow it all out in the open

humble opinion because I can't think of a better crash retrieval case involving the Americans

It's recent enough or most of the people are still alive, right? Like unless you can I can't think of

a crash retrieval case with live aliens better than Virginia. No, I think it's the best recent

case. And and um again, I think if this were a murder case, you'd have more than enough evidence

that happened. And so like there's this, you know, you want a smoking gun, you'd be maybe you don't

have that. But like I I bet you in the world of deep fakes, if you've produced a photo Yeah. the

the the the goalpost would move and there'd still be skeptics who would say, "Oh, look at the the

photo is blah blah blah. It's blurry, blah, blah, blah, you know, unless the neurosurgeon who shot

the video came forward." So, you have providence. That would I think that'd be pretty good. I think

that would be about as good as you can get. I think that'd be as good as you can get. And then

it is what it is. It is what it is. Yeah. Um Jose Fernandez is this air traffic controller. Yes.

Who what does he see? his unit was responsible for monitoring specific airspace over the state of Sa

Paulo. Do you know anything about this case? What I am aware of uh is that the US Air Force made a

landing in Campinas. A specific aircraft belonging to the United States Air Force landed there in

Campinus. And following that, two helicopters took off from the very same Campinus airport,

proceeding to an entirely unknown destination, which we later came to understand was the city

of Virginia. They landed, collected something that no one knows what it was, then returned to campus,

placed it inside the USF aircraft, and then they took off. They were gone. And the mission was

what we were told was silence. So, it was really funny actually because let's back up a little bit

by a couple of years. And I was just talking to Louzando about this. Lou was pestering me

before I had a I had a final cut of the first version of Moment of Contact and he was like,

"I need a copy." And little did I know about what was happening behind the scenes. I need a copy.

I said, "Lou, it's not done." He goes, "I don't care. I need a copy." And I said, "Okay, sure."

He goes, "If you had any idea who's watching this right now?" And basically Lou was like, "Okay,

this case is absolutely amazing, but the air traffic controller who talked about Usopp coming

in without any government regulations." They didn't have government approval. UsoF is US Air

Force. Exactly. But I kept hearing UsoF and I was like, UsoF, what's this guy talking? Oh, United

States Air Force. The acronym USAF. And um and that was one of the aspects that that Lou really

wanted to show sh to this day he hasn't told me exactly who's watching it but I think it was like

like maybe if there are certain restrictions on people like Lou or Rush who knows like they could

show him the movie show that it's a compelling case eyewitness testimony and then having the

flight control what do you call the radar control officer the people that monitor the planes that

are coming into Brazil that's what what do you call that air traffic control air traffic

controller okay so it would have been air traffic controller talked about this uh you have to have

government approval to land a foreign plane coming into you know Brazilian soil and apparently this

plane deviated from going to re uh Sa Paulo to Geninis and and Campinus is where we know

according to all the eyewitnesses including the guy that drove it that's where the ET went so for

to have the United States UsoF land in Campinus makes perfectly good sense like I said earlier

all the pieces of the puzzle line up it all lines up perfectly. Like every single person, there's

not been one conflicting testimony. There's been a date here and there where it's like, "Oh, well,

maybe it was earlier, maybe it was later. We don't know." But everything else lines up perfectly. And

you use the United States Freedom of Information Act to try to get information from the Air Force.

Yes. About flight loss. You saw that? Yes. And so and and and from the US to Virginia in 1996. And

and and what came back? Well, I tried to I tried to cover all of our bases and uh our team we filed

a foyer and uh in in 2022, I think it was. Yeah, probably 2022. And I forgotten about it quite

honestly cuz it's like years went by and all of a sudden we get a response from the CIA, which

is weird. I don't know. I mean, I'm not a huge Foya guy, but I mean CIA, like really? And it's

basically like, you know, cuz I asked for records. I was thinking like, okay, so let's just like back

up. Let's give it like a a window of 10 days or whatever. So, we know the incident happened. A lot

of the sightings were on the 20th of January. Why don't we back it up a little bit? Crash a little

earlier. So, I think it was like January 13th to say January 27, something like this just to cover,

you know, any planes that came in from the United States Air Force. Well, it was a 10-day window,

two week window that landed in Campenis, got all those flight records because I was talking to an

individual who for a long time was anonymous and then he was so knowledgeable. I was like,

wow, this guy is incredible. Who are you? And he goes, well, actually, I'm a colonel in the United

States Air Force. I was a fighter pilot, blah, blah, blah. And he has since come forward with

us and he had a really dramatic UFO encounter in 1980 or something like that. But he was giving me

guidance on like what to ask and where to ask and all that stuff. And um blanket statement from the

CIA basically that's like either national security classified or exempt from FOYA because of XYZ

because of this 199 provision secrecy provision. I can't even get a flight record. It's always a

tell too when you uh request from one agency and then they forward it to the other agency which the

other agency would obviously have you know this this article came out in the Daily Mail about

the Office of Global Access run under the CIA around their rapid response you know global crash

retrieval team and um the article is amazing like it mentions I think Doug Wolf as like the head of

the OGA and so they probably would have been in charge of this sort of thing. So the fact that the

Air Force is forwarding this to the CIA is such a tell. CIA runs all foreign intelligence obviously

for the US. Such a tell that they were involved in this case. I mean it's it's it's it's honestly

funny. It's like an admission of of of you know involvement in some ways. Uh you know I just

interviewed a guy named Dan Sherman and he wrote a book called Above Black and uh he was cool title

amazing title insane story. He was a Air Force electronics intelligence. All of his stuff with,

you know, his elint electronics intelligence career lines up with like I I've I've had multiple

elint people come out after this interview I've done with him saying this guy was definitely US

Air Force elint like like just very matter-of-act intelligent kind of on the kind of traditional

vector of of signals intelligence. And um he said that he was part of this secret NSA program and it

was called Project Preserve Destiny and it was he was supposed to do this kind of continuing

elint education you know in Air Force but while he was there he was taken to this complex this NSA

complex at Maryland and this was in 1991 or two and he was told to drink this you know drink and

uh and then kind of hook himself up like match the tones that he would here with these headphones

that this computer would would play and and lock into them and that's how he would kind of gain

telepathic access to alien communication. And here this was really interesting. Independently this

researcher foyed the air force said does you know just asking for information about project preserve

destiny. His name is Noah Rodek. I've been know if you're out there please confirm this because

I don't believe he mentioned Dan Sherman's name at all. They forward the the foyer request to the

NSA. That's telling right there. Yeah. Yeah. And the NSA of course gets back and says, you know,

we can't confirm the existence or non-existence of this program. Didn't they say that in my

foil? It's the same thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. But it's such the bigger tell is you have one agency

forwarding it to the other. It's like, okay, that then the second agency was obviously involved. Why

wouldn't the agency you sent the initial thing to just respond? Absolutely. Yeah. I got I get

I get emails all the time. People reaching out on all the various platforms. I got an

email from someone and I could pretty much like I could read it pretty quickly and to determine,

you know what I mean? Like from experience I've I've had been contacted by alleged witnesses

and stuff like that for decades. And you could kind of sift out the crazy pretty quickly. And

um I think it was like a year ago, maybe maybe a little over a year ago, I got this email and

I read it and I just I time stopped. I was like, "Oh my gosh." And it was basically someone that

claimed uh I have the email. I'll show it to you offline. Um claimed to have been part of the Varia

operation from Campenis. It was Youf. He goes, "I was on the flight." No way. Yes. I swear to God.

What happened? Did you get in touch? Well, so I was like, "Oh my," it was just this moment like I

was just I was overwhelmed with excitement, right? And I gave all the details. I'll I'll let you read

it. And um I was involved. This is weighed on me for almost 30 years of my family and what Yeah.

You have to be very careful how you reach out to me. If you do it this way or that way, I'm going

to cut all ties. Like it has to be this way, you know, blah blah blah. And I was like, "I'll

whatever you want. Let's do it. Whatever makes you comfortable." that I didn't hear anything

for about 24 hours, maybe a little longer. And this individual said, this individual said, "Oh,

my systems were hacked." And that wasn't me that wrote that. No way. So, did you do some followup

and research to figure out who this person was? No. Yes. And and but but when when this

individual reached out and I have a proton email now, which I'll provide to you, you could put on

the screen at some point. Yeah. Because there was it was through Google. It was through Gmail. And I

thought, well, that was silly. Like, why did you contact me through Gmail? Like, you know, that's

easily hacked and it really worried me when I got it. But I only way that was only he didn't leave

me a number. I couldn't find him on Signal. Like, so I responded just the way he told me to respond.

And the feeling I had certainly from his response later was that somebody he got a phone call,

something happened, shut this down. I don't know. But it seemed so authentic. Like it seemed so like

this guy was really part of it. I don't know if that guy is listening to this message right now

in any way, shape, or form, like reach out. You'll provide the Proton email that I'll You can put it

on the screen. I'll put it up. Thanks. Yeah. But so, uh, did you do some background research on

this person to figure out? I I did through some connections of mine. Yes. And was he Air Force?

Uh, uh, Marines. He was Marines. Marines. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And um so is it plausible that what

he was saying was correct? Very interesting. Yeah. I mean he gave like you'll see. Do you

find any colleagues of his or anything? Uh no. And and uh you know since then I I was putting out the

program and then in record time I put out the new cut of moment of contact. Nine months from concept

to completion to delivery. Nine months which is a history like I I have had so little bandwidth for

anything else. There's so many things to follow up on. I'm going back and forth to Brazil. We got to

find this guy. Have you heard of Jonathan Want? Yes. I interviewed him in the 90s with uh Yeah.

What am I talking about? You have an interview with Jonathan Wagant which Steven Greer edited

down in a weird way. Yeah. I I was actually there for that interview and I I went around the country

with Steven Greer just because I was like, "This guy says he's got all this access to people." And

I wasn't even prepared for landing cases, let alone crash cases back then. I mean, I heard

about Roswell, but but I met him and he was in his 20s and I was in my 20s and I was like, "Boy, this

guy and he was so paranoid at the time." Yeah. This is in the ' 90s. Well, he was beat up. He

was paranoid and he was talking about like it was one of the interviews that I was on Steven Greer's

Anyway, he left an indelible impression on me because I saw behind the scenes how terrified he

was. He was debating on whether I didn't even come forward at the last possible minute. They talked

about I think either he was in the helicopter or they mentioned the fact they could take him up

in the helicopter. It was a very big forest. They could just throw him out anywhere. He would never

be seen or heard from again. Like he walked right up to the craft. He went up to the craft. He said

there was like a green liquid dripping out of it. He said there was an arm with I think three or

four fingers. It like a like a biological piece of an entity. Yeah. And I haven't I haven't watched

the whole interview since I operated the camera for that interview with with Dr. career and um

but he left an indelible impression on me. Like I was like [ __ ] cuz he was a Marine, right? Yeah.

And I that's why I mentioned maybe the connection with this guy reaching out to you. Maybe there's

some you know and the thing is is like I wasn't really prepared at the time to process like crash

retrievals, anything beyond Roswell. I don't know. It's been a kind of a slow evolution for

my personal you like my personal journey, you know, cuz I'd heard about I heard about that

was my first case where I was like, boy, this guy is credible, man. I mean, I I I felt like he was

credible. Seems super credible. This happened in the early 90s. He was a part of Operation Laser

Strike in Peru and this eggshaped craft crashed into dripping something dripping from it. He had

telepathic communication with it. It was it was buried about a 45 degree angle into the side of

the uh into the into the side of the the cliff there. The the ridge. It was dripping this serike

uh like ser viscosity, this liquid. Uh it was everywhere all down everywhere when we went down

there cuz there were plants and everything and it was it was weird. was a a purplish green color and

it kind of like like fluctuated like you couldn't really when you you'd look at it one time then you

look at it again and it would like it's almost like it I don't know if it was like alive and

it was just changing but every time you looked at it you saw a different shade of of greenish purple

and the being the being was uh basically sending them very similar signals that that sent you know

Ventterelli the the neuroscientist and the the the daughters or the the the sorry the women Yeah.

And then they they apprehended him. They beat him up. People in Virginia are terrified that

don't have evidence. Just their just their the fact that they witnessed the event or drove the

creature or whatever aspect, you know, they they they they experienced. They're terrified. Now,

obviously the ultimate, you know, holy grail of evidence that I'm bending over backwards to get

my hands on and we keep getting close, uh, is film footage. Yeah. Now, I know through experience that

if I do get my hands on it, and bloody well we've gotten close, uh, I got something to worry about.

And I've thought about that many times, like uh could I upload it to a server? Could I send it to

10 different people? Like how do I deal with that that scenario? In fact, I had a really recent I

had a really vivid dream just recently. Um really vivid like in fact when I was watching your show

with Joe Rogan. Yeah. He had he had that dream. Yes. that really vivid I had a really vivid dream

where I was in I was in Virginia and I was in a very crowded area I think it was like a conference

or we were having a screening or something and um lots of activity lots of and some gentleman walked

up to me and he handed me a thumb drive and he just slipped it in my pocket and he just looked at

me and he kept walking and I was like [ __ ] I've got this is this has to be the footage right but

in my dream I was going what do I do like and then I just felt this doom maybe that happened I just

got the chill now I have a target on my back. Like what do I do? Like I feel like I'd have a target

on my back to get the hell out of there. I need to get it uploaded as quickly as possible. You know,

go to a fancy hotel in S. Paulo. I don't know. But anyway, if there's one thing that I've learned in

this field, don't draw quick conclusions. Don't have that knee-jerk reaction like suspend your

judgment. Listen to the testimony because it's so easy to go that's impossible. That couldn't

possibly have happened without the whole world knowing about it. Well, that's that's people have

an allergic reaction to everything that doesn't fit their kind of mental model of how the world

works. But it should always it should always be follow the evidence. It should never absolutely it

should it should always be like okay what actually happened and then there's beyond that there's

speculation as to what those things are. I often think even UFO researchers jump to the conclusion

that it's a thing came from another planet when you know we don't know what these things are.

That's why they use non-human intelligence, which on the one hand sometimes seems sanitized, PC,

and part of some controlled disclosure. Like UAP was supposed to UFO, like UAP is supposed to UFO,

and I like UFO better than UAP. You know, it's I think it's kind of better and old school,

but like also I I kind of like the NHI thing because it's we don't know. We don't know. And

you you really just have to follow the evidence specifically. And you have great theorists,

people like Mike Masters, who talk about that them being beings from the future. And maybe they are

being who knows. I'll be the first one to admit I have absolutely no idea where they come from,

what they want, why they're here. Yeah. I can speculate. I can look at like I don't think the

government is sure of that either. And but you know and I I okay over the decades I've gone you

know you look at what they do and that's pretty compelling but then you look at what they don't do

because all they'd have to do to to reveal their presence openly would be to hover over the next

Super Bowl right I mean but they don't do that. They've done some pretty bold moves over the years

like in the 50s uh 57 I think in uh Italy some big game they were Oh yeah, you know they've done some

pretty cool stuff. I mean Phoenix, Arizona was pretty phenomenal. I was when everyone's under

the night sky to get a glimpse of the hellbob comet and that massive boomerang shaped craft

and other crafts as well. Pretty bold. Pretty bold stuff, you know. Well, but then you look at Travis

Walton and it's like, well, they clearly if you're if you're going to take if you're going to take

the account of seven witnesses, you know, at face value, they cared enough about him. He probably

got in the way of the propulsion where they grabbed him, fixed him, and then deposited him

in the area in an area on the outskirts of town that was close enough to like he could get help,

but not too close to reveal their their presence. They cared about him. had they dropped him off

where they picked him up, right, he wouldn't have made it. It's a very remote area of the snowflake,

Arizona up in the mountains when that encounter occurred. So, I thought about like I think about

those things. I think about, you know, Sakoro like officer Lonnie Zamora like face contact, you know,

locked eyes with one of these beings. They got back in the craft and left. Like they didn't

want to have contact. They didn't want to have communication much more than anything whatever

happened when he looked into the eyes of these creatures. So they're in on the secrecy as well.

Yes. Clearly. Yes. Right. I mean you can draw that conclusion pretty definitively I would say

that many of these experiencers. Yes. Exactly. If you take the their accounts at face value that but

there there is some level of contact. I mean look at Rua. I mean look at 1966 West all you know.

Thank you Shane Ryan and James Riggnney. Um that case is compelling because you know once again it

was a school 10:30 in the morning broad daylight broad daylight. 300 plus witnesses standing out

there watching this disc zip around in the sky with a little airplane falling around it and then

the thing lands and then the kids run over and a handful of the kids see it sitting on the ground

within 10 ft. That's a pretty bold move I would say. Yes. You know, as far as sightings go. Yeah.

Yeah. In plain sight. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it's it's it's a complex it's so complex and I feel I

feel almost like I know less today than I did 30 plus years ago. Although I know the phenomenon's

real. I know there's a cover up. I know that the government I I say no, I I feel very comfortable

the government has got very definitive evidence about this, you know, bodies and craft and all

that stuff. I just I don't know what they know. In fact, I just asked somebody who probably I'll

remain nameless, but I was talking to somebody that I feel would be in a position to know. And I

said I was like, "How many people have the bigger picture?" And this individual was like, and I

believe me, I trust this individual. And um um 10 10 have the bigger picture. That doesn't mean they

have the full scope. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, and I said, "Well, so like how many people know what

you know?" He goes, "About 30." I was like, "So 30 people know what you know?" I like, "Well, um, is

it I've heard that some people say it's a little scary. Is it scary?" And, uh, the individual is

like, "Yeah, I guess it could be a little scary." Yeah. Mhm. Yeah, it's a little scary. I know. I'm

dying to know, right? you know, maybe with the information they have isn't correct. Who

knows? And um I looked over and Leslie Keane was watching me have this conversation. You know, this

is recently. And I see her looking at me across the room and she's like looking at me. She knows.

She goes, "I know that look on your face, James, when I see you locked like you're you really want

to know something." She goes, "I didn't want to interfere." And I'm like just about. So I was

like, "Well, what well um so like well what what uh what's the intent, you know?" And then somebody

like butts in and it hey, you know, I've always wanted to meet you and I'm sitting there like like

I don't know if I would have gotten it or not, but according to this individual that that it's

not like they didn't I didn't have to fear for my safety kind of thing. And this could be all wrong.

I don't know. But but that the intent was a little scary. A little scary. Yeah. Yeah. I Well, what do

I know? I don't I don't know. It's hard to say, Jesse. I I don't know. I don't I don't either.

You know, and that's that felt like the framing of the age of disclosure. Like there, you know,

that there was some sort of um you know, they were prepping the battle space and they care about our

nuclear assets because it's just like we would do ISR on a foreign adversary or whatever. You want

to know what they're working with? I don't believe that. I don't I don't um and that's not to say,

you know, if you're you're a hammer, everything's supposed to look like a nail. And so if your job

is American national security, like, you know, maybe that's the way you're supposed to orient

yourself towards this. But like I don't I don't believe that and I don't I don't think that should

be people's a priori biases going in, especially if that's their first touch point towards,

you know, the phenomenon. That's that's not my personal belief. And I mean look you just spoke

to you know Talo Ventterelli and you know this is the like this thing was like an angel and it was

higher consciousness than ours and it wanted us to know how special we are and even that could be

a form of deception. You know it's always like you know you guys are doing harm via like you

know these environmental catastrophes that could be some sort of deception where they're trying to

clamp down and control us. Who knows? But I think I think knowing that they're bad somehow. I mean,

this this thing's been whatever's been going on, it's been going on for a long time. I think well

before Roswell, well before Magenta in the 30s. Look at uh Wonders in the Sky by Jacqu Valet.

That's a great example. Incredible. Yeah. Or Passport to Meonia. Passport to Meonia. Exactly.

So So this has been going on for a long long time. So I I just the idea that there's going to

be some sort of rapid juncture or break in their orientation towards us where they start to view us

as some sort of big threat. Uh you know clear I I do think they do care about our nuclear stuff and

are trying to enforce some sort of homeostasis of the earth protect it perhaps it could affect

their reality. Yeah it could affect them somehow but interesting but I mean and you'll hear things

like oh they activated the nuclear sequence. Well, guess what? They turned it off after they

activated it. You know, they always turn it off. In most cases, they deactivate it. In most cases,

they deactivate. So, yeah. I don't know if I buy that, but um I'm open, but I you know, the one

line that I always remember, and I I actually think I I think I got this with Tim Coleman. I

was doing Out of the Blue. I should watch Out of the Blue again. It's been a while. But, uh Robert

Salis, former launch control officer. I just love this line. that I'm sure a lot of you have heard

it, but I was like, "Well, wow, that's amazing. These, you know, these craft were seen over the

base and these nuclear installation during the peak of the Cold War, blah blah blah blah." And

he's like, "Yeah, he's very calm." And I could see exactly why he was a launch control officer,

cuz he was very measured and every word was carefully crafted and he was just calm. You know,

the kind of guy that you want in your corner when all hell's breaking loose, right? cuz he's going

to be very methodical, measured, and like not panic and do the wrong and he's like, "Yeah,

you know, James uh message was uh pretty clear in my book." Um it's almost like taking matches out

of the hands of a baby, you know. I thought, "Wow, that's pretty cool." Whoa. Yeah. Yeah,

it is cool. And and and solid kind of reassuring a little bit. It is. And you know what? He he is

not alone. Most of those guys who are in Bob Hastings amazing book, UFOs and Nukes say that

that's what they, you know, they're like, "We don't know, but we think that the message is,

you know, you guys are playing with fire." Yeah. And not, you know, we're trying to deactivate your

tip of the spear defenses against us, not that we're trying to dominate. We're talking between

September of ' 66 and March of ' 67, we lost 30 missiles to UFO activity. It's wild. Yeah. 30. 30.

That's pretty pretty insane. And I do think what that guy said to you as far as I think I think

there is a tip of the spear as far as government knowledge on this stuff. But I think if if you

know maybe the biggest misconception of all is that they understand all of it. Yeah. You know,

I think they're learning from you just as much as you're learning from them. I really do that. Yeah.

Go for it. Yeah. Well, I was at this event and uh and and I was with Leslie and there were all these

men in suits and she was like, "Hey, there's these guys are from the agency." And you know,

I pretty much knew that, you know, they were very nice. And I I didn't assume anything. I

I was like, "Oh, yeah." you know, and I've been investigating this case, you know, in Bargia,

and they're, "Oh, yeah. No, we know exactly what you've been doing." Not in a threatening way,

but like we follow Oh, yeah. We're following this really closely. Like, for sure. Like, you know,

isn't that funny? Yeah. No, I get I get that all the time. Like, of course you do. And I've had

people on the inside ask about you. Oh, there you go. Like, what do you think about what do

you think about this guy, Jesse Michaels? I was like, he's [ __ ] amazing. That guy's putting the

pieces of the puzzle together that I just like, whoa. I'm taking I'm taking notes on the sideline,

you know. That's why I mentioned you on Joe Rogan because I was like, "This guy earned it." That was

the nicest plug I think I will ever get. And I I I mean, earned that, brother. That means so much to

me. You earned it. It came from here. Well, that I know it did. I know it did. And I I got emotional

just watching it because it that was like 10 minutes or something of you. you are a rock star

and I know by the end of it cuz Joe didn't know me then. And he was just like, "Okay, I guess you've

loved this Jesse guy. Thanks, Jane." Because I've been watching you work and I'm like, "This guy's

operating on another level. Like you're just incredible the way you're putting the piece of

the puzzle together and like doing deep dives into all these different aspects." I was like, "Whoa."

Like, this is incredible. Well, we're I'm standing on the shoulders of giants and and and there's no

way, you know, like you were making movies while you were painting fences. Yes. Digging ditches,

bending rebar, pouring cement, painting houses, parking cars. Yeah. So, like I think it's really

easy to post destigmatization of the whole topic, New York Times article in 2017, all this stuff,

you know, it's easy to make these YouTube videos. So uh you know I I I I I think you know all of us

who are doing that owe you a huge debt owe people like Jeremy Corbel and Ross Colthart a huge debt

and so yeah no it's uh thank you for saying that but um and there people like me too like

UAP so many people ask me to do that and I don't and I so many people oh I heard you're going I

always try to keep it secretive I heard you're going on like can you please you know it's like

you earned it. It's like when you called me and just said, "Thanks so much." I was like, "Dude,

don't thank me, man. You earned that one." Like, I I meant it. Yeah. That re that really meant

the the world to me. And and and Joe's become a good friend. That's incredible. When I saw him on

your show, I was like, "My god." Yeah. That's so cool. That was the most real moment. So cool. It

was so epic cuz he he's also respects you, too. Like he's got tremendous respect for you. Oh,

I don't know. Incredible. Yeah, it's it's so nice. Maybe should both of you guys should aim higher.

But it's always nice to like feel appreciated. Everybody wants to feel appreciated. And you know,

one of the things I'd love to say right here and right now is like, you know, I'd really like to

see more kindness between fellow re everyone really. I agree. Especially with the people you

disagree with. Yeah. You know, and less less impuging people's motives and thinking that

they're bad faith actors. Absolutely. because and there all these people who I I went into

this world thinking, "Oh, but they're part of the insider crew or whatever." And then I'd meet them

and I'd realize that like, yeah, maybe they know a few like kind of spookyish people or whatever, but

they're really just trying to figure it out and they're trying to get the information. You know,

a good example of that is actually Tom Delong. Yeah. Where like, you know, I I uh you know,

recently remember when he went on Rogan and Rogan was it was too much. It was too much too soon.

Well, well, cuz he was probably right, right? He was right about a lot of stuff, I think. But he he

it was um too much where he wasn't in a position to he could like say a highle thing and then Rogan

obviously wants to get lowle. He wants to know all the details and then he would say like I I can't

really fully, you know, tell you like I'll tell you after the show sort of thing was like I can't

wait for the show to end, right? But um you know I find him to be extremely earnest and cool and

smart and have like some sort of working worldview around this thing that uh you know seems to be

pretty coherent. And and I think a lot of his you know uh engagement with people on the inside were

his own just really vigilante desire to like get a lot of this stuff out in in any way he could.

And he has some interesting stories that I hope he tells at some point. I want to shift gears for

a second because you have just uh a compendium of incredible historical interviews and interactions

with some of the people who are the most important people in UFO history. Uh I want to talk about

Phil J. Corso. Yes. You have maybe the last interview with him alive. Yeah. Uh he obviously

wrote The Day After Roswell. Um he was uh head of the the Pentagon's uh foreign technology desk. He

was a witness to the creatures. Maybe he was a witness. He says he was, but in the day after

Roswell that was also co-written by William J. Burns, right? And that might have been,

but no, but I interviewed him and he told me about when he was taken in at Fort Okay. So,

they started the journey in Roswell by truck, I believe it was, and some of the debris went to

right Pat on an airplane, but I think the bodies, according to Corso, yeah, there was a stop along

the way. In any case, he said that he'd heard that there were some bodies and they went in and they

opened up with the caskets and he saw the body from the Roswell. No way. Yeah. Yeah. In early

July 1947, Corsa was post duty officer in Fort Riley, Kansas. There he claims to have seen a

body transported from an air base in New Mexico. I went back and there was five crates there, like

five or six. I think it was five. I lifted one up and here's this body there and floating in fluid.

First I thought it was a a child cuz it was small. Then I looked at his head and all right.

This was only happened a matter of seconds. Then I put the end back down and uh the head

was different. The arms were spindly. The body it was gray. So right at that moment I figured

u I don't know what this thing is. So, like an intelligence business, I just better put it in

the back of my head here and wait till maybe in the future I get collaboration so I can evaluate

what it is. Yeah. You said that in your interview. Yes. It was really funny actually because when I

went to the 50th anniversary of the Roswell case that took place in 1997 uh in Roswell,

New Mexico. And it was a scene because we had like members of Congress. There was Congressman Schiff,

I think it was, who was saying like, "I don't know what's going on here, but I've been getting,

you know, I've been getting the I've been getting like stiff armed by the Air Force, you know, and

I'm making inquiries and why would you fly a, you know, a weather balloon under armed guard, like,

you know, and he noted that all of the Roswell stuff was deleted, all the archival material,

sent him to an agency knowing that agency didn't have anything." And this was all happening.

more people were coming forward and then boom, this guy, you know, Philip Corso, who apparently

uh according to him, he told me this directly from him, his mouth to my ears, he said that

they rushed the book to print with William Burns because they wanted to make the they wanted to

ride the coattell of the 50th anniversary of Roswell and all the attention it was getting

and that there were a lot of discrepancies in the book that he was upset about that, you know,

uh this is what he told me and and I uh when he came to Roswell, there was a flurry of activity

in one of the hangers and he was surrounded by all these news reporters. Oh my lord, you should

have seen it was a feeding frenzy like and I'm looking at him and I'm like, I got to get a I got

to get an on camera statement. But I was a little kid with a camera and I was like, you know what?

I'm just going to elbow my way in there. I don't care. And I I fought my way in there and I got my

camera and I asked him a couple questions in the movie. I'll give it to you. You can show it. And

um and then the next day I found out where he was staying, what hotel he was in. And I

I just you know what? I went to the reception. I said, "Oh, I've got a meeting with Philip Corso.

Can you I just forgot what room he's in. Would you mind?" You know, and I went to the room and

um Oh, we were expecting you like, you know, and uh Oh, really? Like I was like, "Cool." So,

we sit down and we do it hour and a half long interview, whatever it was. I don't know, hour,

hour and a half. Got a lot of stuff out of them. again, I'll I'm happy to provide

whatever you want. And um and then Michael Hessman arrives, German guy, and he was late and he was

all sweaty and flustered. And apparently he had scheduled the interview that I got with Corso,

but he showed up late. I showed up. I was in the right place at the right time. So I got

this sit down interview with Corso when Michael Hesman should have had it. And as it turns out,

he was all flustered and he was late and he had no sound gear. So I gave him my sound gear. was

when I got about I want to say it's about an hour and a half and he talked about why he's coming

forward because it was grandkids and he's like I'm old I'm going to die soon but you know I want the

world to know this thing happened I was a witness I saw and I remember thinking cuz there was a lot

of controversy after he died and he was no longer in a position to kind of correct the the record I

guess but I believed him I believed him I looked him in the eyes and I really did believe him and

I think I still believe him to this day and I think he got a really bad rap and maybe it was too

much too soon. I don't know. But he told me, "I'm coming forward for my grandchildren." And he goes,

"I saw the bodies." Like he looked like a little kid, big head, big eye, you know, all the typical

spindly arms, spindly legs. How many fingers? Didn't I don't remember that part because you know

what's interesting? You you say in in Virginia there were three three fingers. Three digits.

Yeah. And it was uh you know on the the paper it's drawn, you know, the three fingers or whatever.

You recreate it. And you know, I've seen beings in Peru that are skeletons with three fingers,

the three toes and three three fingers, and they carbonate to between 800 and,700 years ago,

and one of them has a tral fetus inside of it. So there's inheritance between What's mean? Triactyl

means three fingers. So So one of them has a a fetus with three fingers and three toes in it.

Wow. They all have DNA associated with them and further testing is being done right now. So I'm

like, okay, both of these things are happening in South America. Is that just a skeleton of

what? And they they have elongated heads, but they didn't undergo any headbinding. They don't

have any of the stress fractures involved in headbinding. Wow. Super weird. Bargin Brazil,

those things had three fingers and three toes. So the question is like and they saw footprints too

in that case. And and and didn't Dave Gush say that some of the craft recovered were

archeological digs or something like this? He said Bob Lazar said that. But David Grush said

that the that the the skeletons that I saw in Peru looked like things that he's seen in classified

settings. Wow. So that could be the same thing that that happened in Virginia that that being

and we could have literal mummies of those beings for all we know. Bigalow. I remember I met with

Bigalow. I got contacted by him in 2009 and I don't think I was ready for what he told me at

the time and quite honestly I don't know if I'm still not ready. What did he say? Well,

it was funny actually because he talked about the complexities of disclosure. He reached out to me

through his secretary and I still have the email and they said uh Mr. Bigalow wants to congratulate

you on a job well done for I know what I saw and uh that's cool. I looked up Bigalow and I kind

of knew who you know I was like oh wow would Mr. Mr. Bigalow liked to get together, you know. Yes,

he would actually. And so we arranged a time where I would go to his house and this is like

2009 probably. And uh we had lunch together at his house in Las Vegas and he he starts telling

me about the complexities of disclosure. Do you understand kid? Like you know the implications and

they're so vast impacts on organized religion and this and that. And I I honestly I hadn't

really thought of the complexities of disclosure. And I was like, "Yeah, cool." You know, and he's

talking about that. And then he goes he goes, "Uh, yeah, and they're walking among us." And I said,

"What?" And he goes, "What do you mean they're, you know," he goes, "I mean exactly that. They're

they're walking among us." Now, no, I think I took that and I put it in the back of my head

because I was like, "You know what? That's just crazy. like you got to be kidding me, you know.

At the time I I don't know. I took it with a grain of salt. Uh maybe they are. I don't know. I mean,

it would be pretty funny if they were because, you know, here we are looking out across the

cosmos for any sign of intelligent life, you know, with the various NASA programs, you know, looking

uh for water or whatever oxygen or atmosphere, you know, all these various planets. that would

it be funny if they're like right here, you know? It' be And maybe they are, you know, maybe they

are. Yeah. Well, they the Hal Putoff always talks about the UFOs engaging in what he calls signature

management where they control what they sort of look like or appear to be in optical and radar and

that sort of thing. And so maybe that's happening with the beings themselves. And so, who knows?

Yeah. One thing that I've learned over the decades is suspend judgment. Man, at this point,

anything's possible. I don't know what's going on. I would love to know what's going on. I don't

either. And I and I want, you know, you guys to understand like I don't put something out into the

public if I don't believe it's highly likely that it happened. I I'm not out there just trying to I

I really don't. I care about integrity. I care about perception. Like you're the opposite of a

gri a grifter doesn't start valeting cars and then makes the thing on the side cuz he's so passionate

about it. What are you talking about when there is no market for the thing in the early 2000s? Once

I pay back my investors I always put my films on free platforms like No, you just you just told me

before you started rolling your dream is to buy the phenomenon back. So how are you a grifter?

You want to buy your own footage back cuz that feels more authentic. It's crazy. Yeah. Anyway,

so that's just ridiculous. No, but it is these things. Same with with this thing in Peru with

these mummies. Like sometimes when the thing is staring you in the face, you think it's too good

to be true, but maybe maybe it's just, you know, Jim Semiban, who's very high up at the CIA. He

said said something. He says like most of this stuff, it was a personal experience, says most

of this stuff is just hidden in plain sight. And that's the conclusion that I've come to. Uh again,

despite my So funny, wouldn't it? Yeah. Right. What? That it's just it's just there. Yeah. I I

I was at the airport a couple years ago and I was flying to Arizona for a conference or something

and I I get up to the gate and I was like, [ __ ] I left my sunglasses in the car. I like I can't

leave without my sunglasses. Like, ah. I had to go back to the security. I go all the way out to

the car. Ah, my sunglasses aren't there. I was like, crap. Guess where they were? Where? On my

face. Yeah, they were right there. Yeah, sometimes it's just right staring at right there. But what

what is Did you Did you probe Bigalow Moore and you say what did you you know what do you mean

exactly? I talked about the implications. Well, I did talk about the implications of of disclosure,

the complications of disclosure a little bit, but in terms of them walking among us,

I wasn't ready for it. I honestly wasn't. I I was like, you know, who's this guy? I don't know, man.

I I I I couldn't dismiss it entirely just because of his position. He's probably invested more money

in research with NIDS and OAP and ATIP and all the various different people that he's worked with. Um

so I couldn't like I didn't categorically dismiss it, but I kind of put it I compartmentalized it,

put in the back of my head. And but as time went by and I learned more about the phenomenon,

I started thinking, [ __ ] man, maybe he's right. Maybe they are right here, you know,

walking among us. Wouldn't that be Wouldn't that be funny? You know, it's like, you know,

it's right under our noses. There it is in plain sight. And that seems to make more sense to me

cuz a lot of people go, you know, and I get people go, "Oh, you're just, you know, you're concluding,

you know, it's extraterrestrial." I was like, "No, actually, I didn't say that and I've never said

that. I really don't know what they are." Well, with the guy who's uh transporting this being in

this, you know, in the military uh cargo driver or whatever, he goes, I'll show you the email. Yeah,

I want to see that email. Yeah, sorry. Go ahead. But he says uh he says it was, you know,

it was told to him like they were somebody was questioning him. What did you see? And he says,

I don't, you know, I don't know what I saw. You know, it was like a burnt human being or something

cuz he was trying to be cool as if he didn't see anything. The guy goes, it was supernatural.

They focused on me with this older military guy. He looked me right in the eyes and asked

what I had seen. I said, "I think it was a burnt man or something." He said, "No,

you didn't see that." say, I don't know if he thought I was trying to deceive him, you know,

like he knows, but he just doesn't want to talk about it. It was then

that he stated that what I had witnessed was a particular thing. Super natural.

Yeah. Supernatural. Supernatural. Yeah. I was very funny in the edit room because I I edit my

own movies and that line just really stuck with me and I really wanted it to I really wanted it

to to hit with the audience and so I I had I did all the uh subtitles in the film and I did

it at my pacing because I'm a slow reader and I always frustrates me when I'm watching a film

with subtitles when they come on too fast I'm like no you're going too fast slow down. So I tried to

like do one line whenever I could, two lines most, primarily one line. And when it came to super,

because he goes, this is Military X talking about with the general meeting that he had

with the general after he driven this creature from various places, Humanitas,

ultimately Campinus. And he's like, uh, he goes, "No, no, that's not what you saw. What you saw

was super natural." And so I put super and then a beat later, natural as he said it on the text.

And then the other guy that I work with, Boris, he changed it to have them both come on at the

same time. And I went, "No, no, no, no, no, Boris. That was intentional. I want that word." Because

it's memorable, right? Yes. It's a It's a cool It's a moment in the movie. Super natural. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like a shampoo commercial or something, right? Yeah. Exactly. Um Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's remarkable. And And we we don't know, you know, what these beings are. And

you know, even on the on the I keep going back to these Peruvian mummies, but they had these

um like osmium and cadmium implants like on their heads. And you know, I was just I was playing

around. I was asking GP chat GBT, you know, what these things might be adaptive for. And it's like

maybe they could create this local electromagnetic field which would define how the beings are

perceived or like modulate, you know, in other words, affect the environment around them. Yeah.

Crazy. It's crazy. Who knows? I remember what's his name. Uh, I'll think of it in a second. He was

a NASA employee. He analyze photographs. Makabe. Was it something Makabe? Bruce Makabe. Yeah,

Bruce McCabe. FBI, UFOs in the FBI or something. Yeah. But he primarily did photographic analysis.

And he said to me years ago, cuz I was like, "Why are all the pictures blurry?" like ah, you know,

and people criticize that all the time. And he's like, if they're not blurry and they

have a defined clear edge, this is 20 plus years ago. He goes, that's when you should be suspicious

because there's some kind of weird field around the propulsion we feel that causes a slight

distortion and so you'll always get slightly fuzzy edges and all that stuff. I was like, "Wow, y wow,

that's interesting." You know that was coming from a guy PhD like you know you have these lensing

effects from the gravitational bubble and it was explained really well in Age of Disclosure which I

thought you know I mean red shifts or blue shifts and uh you know tip my hat to to Dan Farah and and

Lou Alzando that was an exquisite accomplishment. Everyone can criticize how a film's put together

but trust me as a filmmaker myself uh I think that's going to help move the needle. I I was

very impressed. you know, people like Rubio and and James Clapper and all coming forward and

putting their necks out. So, um I'm I'm excited about the times and I feel like Moment of Contact,

New Revelations of Alien Encounters, I don't know, the timing seems to be perfect because

like Dan Farah's film, Age of Disclosure with Lou Alzando is kind of everything that our film isn't

and our film is everything that their film isn't. Right. So, you make these extraordinary claims,

you know, and then you're we're providing an extraordinary case. Yes. because this is an

example. Do you know what I'm saying? So, I think that it's a really good I think the timing and

the pressure that I felt because I didn't know when Age of Disclosure was going to come out.

I'd heard kept hearing it was delayed, whatever reasons and so the fact that it came out and then

like you know 6 weeks later we're dropping this one. I think the timing is going to be perfect. I

think the stars are starting to align and I think that we can really get some traction in terms of

you know regardless of what you think about the current administration I think if ever there was a

time for full disclosure I think it's more likely to happen with him than anybody else. Yeah. No,

I I agree. He's he's more likely to do something out of left field. Rip the bandaid off. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Because Biden administration I was so disappointed like Rush came out during the Biden

administration. It's like you're not even going to address it. Well, but the Biden administration,

the problem with the Biden administration, okay, right now, maybe, you know, you could argue that

Trump has too much agency or something. With Biden, he wasn't it was a headless administration.

It was literally the whole thing was just a a bureaucracy because you had you have a guy who was

had dementia. Yeah. Who and so then you're like, who's actually running? Oh, is it Jake Sullivan

maybe as chief of staff? And then like what's he up to? We didn't elect him. Like what's the deal?

So the most dismissive nothing's going to get done in that context. I felt it was the most dismissive

administration in history on the phenomenon and on everything on everything they if you believe that

is headed in the right direction then that was the right admin. This you got a lot of volatility

maybe but it's like some sort of hail Mary where you might get some movement or something. But I

just feel like it's going to happen in this administration more than any other. I really

do. Yeah. Yeah. I I and I'm and we're going to be doing things well. You have all these truth and

transparency initiatives. I mean, one interesting thread is like Tulsi and Clapper kind of hate

each other. I don't know if you know that. I know that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Tulsi is a current DNI

and like they're going after Clapper because she seems pretty amazing. I love Tulsi. She seems like

amazing. She seems I'm a fan. I think she's great. I think she's she's an honest, earnest actor.

I think she's very brave and um yeah, I I I you know, pray for her. It takes unconventional to get

this stuff done. It does. Yeah. So, um, but she doesn't like Clapper, um, because she says that

Clapper was involved in Russia gate and this whole kind of, you know, um, planting stuff on Trump,

calling the Russian asset or whatever. So, I guess what I would say to the current DNI is like, okay,

like do you want like Clapper or any of these guys eating your lunch on this very important

issue or do you want to get the issue? Good idea. Why would you want these guys to get credit when

you can get the credit? The credit. Exactly. I mean, honestly, you would go down like, "Hey,

look, I interviewed Senator Harry Reid." Yeah. And love the guy, hate him, whatever. He was he

spearheaded something that was incredible, right? Yeah. Yeah. And he stood up for Lou Alisando,

and I'm very grateful for that. But I asked him this question, and I recently unearthed it because

I didn't put it in the phenomenon. And I said, like, what would you tell whatever president it

was? What would you tell the president of the United States about this topic? And he goes,

don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to take it on head on. Like, don't be afraid to admit that this

stuff is real. Like, and I think that's really important because everyone that I've interviewed,

including the governor, including senators and members of Congress, it was the best thing to

their career. They thought it was going to be the opposite effect, right? But in actuality,

and I even interviewed the former governor of New Mexico, who's a Democrat, Richardson,

and he goes, "You know, quite honestly, James, one of the few things that I ever did in my political

career was looking into the UFO phenomenon, particularly the Roswell crash." He goes, "You

wouldn't believe the level of support I had from both parties." No, it's it's you look at Luna,

were the only bipartisan things. You look at Luna, Berett, Berles, like all these guys Yeah. are it's

become their like number one issue and they are going on podcast tours. They're talking about it

constantly. Yeah. And they're all pumped. Yeah. Democrats and Republicans working together is so

beautiful to see. Thank God they're working for the people. Yeah. So, but it it's clearly good

for their career. It's not bad for their career. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Yeah.

No, they're getting notoriety and people want the truth. Yeah, they do. And they should get

it. Yeah. Like I don't care, man. If it's a little scary, whatever. Yeah. Don't hide. Don't treat us

like children. Don't hide the truth. Like it's so like you you you know so much and I know what I

know. Whatever. You know more than me. Well, not not really. But but you know what I know I know,

right? because I went out, you know, but um we regardless of it, I think that every man, woman,

and child has a right to know what the bigger picture is. Stop treating us like children.

Like it it frustrates me to no end when you see like statements made, you know, it's starting

to be less so these days. Satan made they're so clearly like clash with reality like the

crash test dummies in Roswell. If you've looked in you a modicum of research into the Roswell case,

you'd be like you'd laugh that right out of the room, right? Oh, these bluish dummies. It's like

and that happened like way later. And then Project Mogul like Project Mogul is like later and they're

same balloons but they're stringed together to make a bigger balloon. Like if you look at all the

facts that's just it's like a slap in the face. Anybody who knows anything about it, you know,

it's like and it's just I I've had it. Like could you just please can we just have some transparency

on this? Like it's one of the reasons why I'm working so hard. Like you know I'm pushing now

harder than ever. Like I've cranked out since 2020. I put out the phenomenon then I put out

moment of contact then I put out the program. Now I put out a new version moment of contact which

covering all the congressional hearings really quickly you saw and and I'm doing something else

that I'll be cranking that out in under a year because I feel like now is not the time to let

up as much as I want to go spend more time with my family and I do believe me it's very painful like

to be away from my son and I'm missing so many things but I feel like my my whole career is kind

of culminated to this moment right now and I feel like we all as a community need to work together

need to be kinder to one another, need to respect one another, particularly with those that we

disagree with. I really mean that. Like cuz we're stronger together. Yeah. Speak speaking of people

who did not hold back on the truth. Uh Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, you met him as well,

right? Yes, I did. And he came back and he was just from his moon, you know, excursions and he

was just completely adamant that uh alien life is real. I think he was in touch with various

components of the government, maybe kind of legacy crash retrieval programs. Yes. Himself. Yes.

He had that he had that memo at his house. Yeah. Tell me about this memo. Well, it's the Oh, you're

talking about the Wilson Davis. Yeah, you know that. Yeah, we covered covered that one. Yeah.

Which is strange that he even had that memo, which is which is documenting Eric Davis in the parking

lot talking to Admiral Thomas J. Wilson who's head of J2 Joint Chiefs, should be in charge of

all military technology in the government at the time. late '9s. He's still around. You know, he

was there were some people that wanted to subpoena him into into a skiff. Yeah. And he goes and I

talked to the people that subpoenaed him. Yeah. And they said he goes he goes, "Sure, I'll I'll

come into the skiff, but I'm going to tell you the same thing I'm telling you right here that I'm

going to tell you in the skiff. So, if you want to waste my time and yours, let's go." That's crazy.

Isn't that funny? Cuz in that document, you have him But he said he would deny it. Yeah. He's like,

"If this ever comes out, I'll deny, deny, deny." Yeah, but let me tell you something interesting

about Edgar Edgar Mitchell and I was really clo I mean I was so I I would call him all the time for

advice and he participated. I was interviewing him in my 20s. I went to his house and in the middle

of the interview and I was also friends with Buzz Aldron's sister Feyan Potter, very close. I

used to go to her house. I used to look at all the behind the scenes photographs of the moon landings

and all the stuff and she would tell she said that the NASA authorities said that they were all given

some kind of pill that they would die if anything happened. And also like wait wait wait they would

be given a pill with they gave a pill like where if they have to kill themselves if they missed the

if they missed the earth sorry if they missed the moon and they shot off into the space they were

going to they would had something they could die. Yeah they could in other words they would have to

have a slow death they could kill us that's what she told me fan she showed me all these pictures

and that and that if if uh if if if Neil Armstrong came out and anything happened to him Buzz was

not supposed to play the hero. He was supposed to leave his ass on the moon and get back meet

up with is it was it Collins that they Michael J. Collins. Michael J. Collins. Yeah. And so she she

told me that. She also told me that he had some UFO encounter on the way to the moon. Um I know.

Yeah. And one of my biggest regrets was Well, I have a lot of them, but you told that story

on the last podcast. Yeah. Was that Fan Potter never I never got her on camera talking about her

her brother. But you chased Buzz Aldrin down and you said, "I want to interview you about UFOs."

And then he goes, "What did what was my testimony do?" When I was watching Joe Rogan talk about, and

I respect his opinion, that's totally fine. But I was personally friends with the number of people

that landed on the moon and I got great detail. And could I have been deceived? Sure, I could have

been. But I think about like when Joe's like, "Yeah, look at the three of them sitting right

after they landed on the moon." I was thinking, well, that's the look on their faces of people

that maybe they had a UFO encounter on the way of the moon like Fan Potter had, and they had to shut

up. And they had to shut up about it. That's the third option. Yeah, because you have, you know,

you know, Beatatric Valale. No. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You interviewed her not too

long ago. She's amazing. She spotted thousands 10,000 plus transients every year from in the

Palmar Observatory, which is the most prominent observatory. And this was between 1949 and 1957.

These things aren't sun streaks. They're not, you know, asteroids, comets, meteors. Obviously,

they're they're not satellites cuz they're prepputnick in 1957. And they look like mirror

like light reflecting objects which are what all the CIA documents describe UFOs as in the late

40s and early 50s and they're in geocynchronous orbit. And so you you Yeah. And so you have to

and they and they sort of pop up. Yeah. And so you wonder when you leave, you know, the the

the Van Allen belt, you know, when you leave the protective magneettosphere of the Earth, do you

just encounter tons and tons of UFOs? And if you look at Bluegill Triple Prime, which was the first

time we cut a hole in the magneettosphere of the Earth with the, you know, uh, we we were trying to

see if we could puncture the Van Allen belt. Guess what came out? UFO material. And Harold Malgrren,

this presidential adviser. I'm so glad you got to him. Isn't that wild? And he said he was holding

the pieces, the UF, the pieces of the UFO. It was It was an accidental shootown. He reached for some

stuff sitting on his desk. These are things that have come down. But debris or images debris. Wow.

Nothing can handle them. Wow. That's amazing. So, are we just surrounded by UFOs? And and

maybe that's the secret. Maybe the, you know, the the Neil Armstrong cryptic speech about, you know,

uh uh the the the layers uh concealing the truth. There are great ideas undiscovered. Breakthroughs

available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers are in fact the idea that once

you you get past the Van Allen belt, you actually encounter just a a UFO prot and then you have okay

another one that very well could be the case. And all I can tell you is that I was good friends with

Edgar Mitchell. I went to his house. I sat down with him and in the middle of a UFO interview,

I was like, I I I'm sorry to ask this of you. I know you get asked this all the time, but what

was it like to go to the moon? I closed my eyes and I listened to every every detail. But if that

guy was lying, he was a damn good liar. Like just me in the room with him and another sound guy or

audio guy, you know, I'd have to dismiss him. I'd have to dismiss Fan Potter. I'd have to say like

I'm open to it, though. So here, No, here here's where I land. Um Sorry. Yeah, I didn't mean to

interrupt you, but No, you didn't interrupt me at all. I'm just answer I'm just kind of responding

to how where you're you're at is like I I think the presentation of the first Apollo mission was

clearly manicured and sanitized. Can I tell you something about that? Yeah. So, I talked to Edgar

Mish goes a lot of this stuff was coming out in the '90s and they were questioning the moon

landing stuff and I was like, "Yo, what do you think about all this like imagery?" And he goes,

"James, it wouldn't surprise me." me. He goes, "We had hustleblot cameras with no viewfinders,

gardening gloves on." Yeah. And like the whole world was watching. He goes, "It wouldn't surprise

me if they recreated some imagery that they could fall back on just in case." Like the biggest,

most expensive endeavor in the history of mankind. And like, and he goes, "That wouldn't surprise me,

but he goes, I walked on the moon. I swear to God." Yeah. Yeah. And like if we had one person

and maybe we do, but I don't know if anyone I don't know how many people were involved in

putting a man on the moon, but I'm I'm assuming it was in the tens of thousands if not more and

not one person from high level. Well, walking on the moon way less than you know. No, no,

no. But what Oh, involved in the program in the Apollo program. How many? A few hundred

thousand. A few hundred thousand. So, has anyone from that few hundred,00and come forward and said

it didn't happen? Yes. But but yeah, yeah. Oh, they have. Yes, I didn't know that. Yes, but no,

no Apollo astronauts, but some people within the NASA some people and yeah, in fact, there's this

guy who Rogan talked about on the show where he like did this whole review and he you know,

um Oh, I I I saw that Danny Danny Danny and and you had the Danny Jones, you know,

but but Bar Cyrell is he's not associated with the program itself, but there are there are people who

were and there's the Gus Gisham thing died the next day and yeah, put a lemon on the thing.

There's some weird facts and you could, you know, if you think that the UFO program is involves like

so many people like there's an argument that could be made that the only thing that would need to be

faked would be like mission control. And if you could fake mission control, you know, like all the

parts suppliers and all the people like doing kind of the ancillary kind of peripheral, you have, you

know, like the the spokes of the wheel so to speak in the operation, they could easily be lied to.

But yeah, I still shake out. I do, you know, I think we attempted and then like, you know,

I do there's to me I following the evidence something about the presentation of the whole

thing clearly sanitized. The video is weird. The two light two light sources, the you know

the there's some anomalies, the flag, the you know just like there's a there's a lot you know no dust

on the lunar lander. I talked to a guy who was a scientist that I actually coincidentally worked on

that cheesy TV show I did. Ben uh is the guy and I was asking him about the moon landing stuff. And

he's like, "Wow, you know," and he's total geeked out scientists. Like he's like, "Ah, you know,

we can see the the laser. We can put a laser on some of the things that we left on the surface

of the moon." Yeah. The the reflectors. Yeah. Reflectors. And we have stuff up there and you can

see them. You can put you can put up the reflector with the with the rover. But so something went to

the moon according to this guy Ben. For sure. Well, we put rovers to the up to the moon.

No question. No question about that. Yeah. No question. Yeah. Yeah. No. Anyway, you know, I

again going back to the UFO phenomenon, every time I say something's impossible, therefore, you know,

it can't be. Therefore, it isn't. I've been proven wrong. So, I have to open I have to be like,

from what I know, I believe we went to the moon. Could I be wrong? I could be wrong. And I'm not

going to sit there and say I'm, you know, I know what I'm talking about cuz I really don't. Well,

maybe the more interesting middle path would be there are UFOs along the way to the moon and

it's surrounded or something and you have um John Podesta who is Clinton's chief of staff and you

know who I interviewed. Oh, really interesting. I interviewed him. Yeah. What was that like? It

it was great cuz he talked about you know they so uh Lawrence Spelman Rockefeller who put together

the briefing document for uh dignitaries and high level politicians and all that stuff. I

it was like a global thing. uh he apparently put significant pressure on the Clinton administration

to look into UFOs and to the point where he said if you don't do it I'm going to I'm going

to publicize the fact that you won't do it I'm going to put it on the cover of every magazine

across the country you know blah blah blah apparently threatened him a little bit and uh

and so Podesta said all right well the Clinton administration said all right pick a case that

we should look into and they picked Roswell cuz Roswell obviously if it happened you right and So

uh and then according to Podesta, Clinton was not happy with the answers they were getting. They

were getting the runaround. The president of the United States was getting the runaround. Yeah. No,

that's right. And then Podesta basically entered a you know multi-dead long personal search for this

whole thing. And was it cool that he spoke out at one of the uh National Press Club events I think

that Leslie Kaine was involved with back way back back when? Maybe. Yeah. Oh, maybe. I believe it.

Well, they're they're emails that have since been deleted between him and Tom Delong about UFOs,

and these are this came out over Wikileaks, but you know, I think this this exists in the form

of screenshots or maybe the way back machine or something. And it's him uh meeting with a guy

named Bob Fish, who um I think might have worked at Aerospace Corporation in Elsagundo across from

SpaceX, this sort of mysterious federally funded research and development center think tank. And

they're talking about fast walkers. And they talk about things in space. Fast walkers and

and you to this day you cannot use the freedom of information act on fast walkers. You know

uh John Greenwald tried to do that. He's like the you know UFO foyer guy and and was rejected. And

um and the defense support program the DSP is the air force's outermost defense of like uh

like 80,000 mi up. Yeah it's uh yeah I think uh a little less than that I think. But yeah

80,000 ft. I'm so sorry. I meant to say 80,000 ft. Because isn't that space? That's where space

starts. But I think um I think I think it's like 35,000 kilometers and up is geocynchronous orbit.

I think that's where they're detecting these fast walkers. And that's where they're detecting these

fast walkers. And um yeah, interesting. Right. And so you have the Malmrren thing where you puncture

the Van Allen radiation belt and that UFO material comes out a tic tac. You have the you have it's

just material that he held is is all we know. Lawrence Preston G who ran the Atomic Energy

Comm Commission Albuquerque branch. Did they scoop it out of the ocean? They did scoop it out of the

ocean. Yeah. And uh General uh General Starbird um who was there flew back to headquarters at

like 4:00 a.m. that night and William Ogle, who was overseeing the whole thing for Los Alamos

uh special projects division, writes about it. And all all of this is like public. It's it's

it's really insane. And yeah, and you have this kind of public fight between um uh you have on

the one hand Jeffrey Krookshank who's like a nuclear expert UFO researcher in Australia and

um then Dean Johnson and uh Merrick von Renenamp. They say it's the booster, but he's sure that it

can't be the booster. It has to be some sort of anomalous UFO material. But you have video

of something coming out of and then and then you have this other video where it looks like there's

a white triangle superimposing the UFO coming out of the nuclear blast plume. Wow. It's crazy. It's

crazy. And I that's where the debate gets a little above my head as far as you know the Merrick and

Dean Johnson versus the Krook Shank. I don't know if that but we need more eyes on that. It's an

important thing. When you interviewed Malgum Yeah. And I was watching the interview. I was like,

I'm so glad you got to him. Uh I was thinking to myself, and this is just me speculating, whatever.

I was thinking like about that launch of the Atlas rocket at Vandenberg circa 1964. 64 uh with the

with the with the dummy warhead on it. Right. No wonder if it's true what Malgrim says. Right. They

detonated that up into was it subspace or Yeah, it was a Yeah, high altitude nuclear. Yeah, little

subspace. Yeah. Right. So, if that's the case, no wonder why they were shooting at the dummy

warhead. According to Jacobs, right, the footage that he captured, if I if one of my comrades

was shot down by one of these silly like missile launch with a nuclear, you know what I mean? Like,

I'd probably shoot it out of the sky, too, which is exactly what they did. I was like, "Wow,

that makes sense." No wonder why they shot it out of the sky. Yes. It took some of their people

down. Yes. And then and then you then you have this disabling nukes shooting that out of the sky.

Like that's pretty phenomenal. Yeah. It's really phenomenal. And Louo said he saw that footage.

Yeah, I know. He says he saw that footage. He says he knows where it is. And I'm like, Lou,

get that thing out. We saw the video and we tip. That's crazy cuz that's what I was going to ask

you. He said he was like, I think Lou has seen the video. So you've seen the video. Yeah. So you know

this is a real thing. Yeah. Oh my god. It's Is the video Do you still have the video or I don't

have It was It was in Pentagon with all my other files when when the Pentagon said they deleted

everything. Of course we know they really didn't because really after they Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh my

god. They know where everything is. And then and then when I talked to a buddy of mine, apparently

somebody went in and they they cleaned everything out. But what they don't realize is that there's

backups in a whole lot of places at that Pentagon. So, okay, the problem is if I say it right now,

they'll go into mysteriously a bunch of people's computers will wind up disappearing tomorrow. So,

I'm just going to wait until the right time and uh you know that stuff is alive and well. We need to

provide people like Lou and Grush immunity so they can give us all those details that we need. That

that needs to happen. We need to figure that out. give it like if the presidential executive order

say everything you know and let's let's reverse it. You have to say everything you know or you're

in trouble. Everything you know that doesn't compromise some like specific vehicle you're

working on that's going to confer a tactical advantage to Russia or China. All the science,

let it out and and flip it and say if you don't say everything, you know,

you're going to get in trouble. Let's do that. I I I mean, you know, look, we've got nothing to lose,

everything to gain. Obviously, there are certain aspects of national security. I

understand that they don't want to get in the hands of the wrong people. I get it. You know,

if the accounts would be believed that, you know, Russia's obviously trying to figure this out,

but it's like it's like nuclear trade secrets. We don't let out the trade secrets, but nuclear

science is taught at universities across the United States. This should be treated the exact

same way. Totally agree. I I totally agree. And like, you know, like I said earlier in the in

the show, if you don't believe Lou, if you don't believe Grush, you don't believe Hal, you don't

believe Eric Davis or any of these other alleged whistleblowers, uh, let's let's give him immunity

and let's put him on the Well, that's Eric Davis in your recent moment of contact. He's asking for

that. He says literally, give me blanket immunity and I will say everything I know. Yep. He'll

testify tomorrow in an open under under oath under oath to a bipartisan group of lawmakers openly for

the whole world to see. And he says he has all this data on crash retrievalss, alien bodies.

Criticize him all you want. He says, "I swear on my family's life that this is the truth." He said,

"On my children's life." On my children's life. Where's the proof? We have alien spaceships in our

possession. We have bodies. Where and why can't I get the specifics to verify those claims? If the

president of the United States issued an executive order that absolves me of all of my TSSCI, NDAs,

NDAs are non-disclosure agreements. Those are the agreements we have to sign for every compartment

in our SCI clearances. So if the president waves or absolves my obligation to those NDAs and I get

subpoenaed by Congress, some somebody on Capitol Hill, some committee either in the Senate or the

House or the both to reveal everything I know that I learned from my investigations both

unclassified and classified into the legacy UAP crash retrieval and hardware reverse engineering

and NA NHI programs. I would do so if I could be waved from that or absolved in some fashion by

presidential order. And if Congress subpoenas me, yes, I would go and tell them everything I know.

This reality is very hard, very physical, very real. And uh this type of evidence um you can't

come by in the open literature. It's not public. It's classified. And I can't discuss what it was,

but I can tell you, yeah, it's a crash retrieval. There's a craft and there's alien bodies.

That's all I can say about it. You swear on your life that you saw those pictures. Oh, I swear in

my life and everybody's my my children's life. So, yeah, I'm absolutely telling you the truth.

I saw the evidence and it's stark. Just wild. So, yes, that needs Thank you for remembering

that. That's a great line. Absolutely. I swear on my ch Who's going to say that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

who would say that? You're either you're either a sick person, a psychopath or or you're or you're

telling the truth. Yeah. Um, and speaking of, you know, the idea, speaking of psychopaths,

no. Speaking of psychopaths, Yeah. No, speaking of your your mentioning of Bob Jacobs Vandenberg

case in ' 64 where you have this dummy nuclear warhead getting shot out of the sky. Yes. Um,

this is where it gets really trippy because either they are defending against some sort of incursion

in their airspace. Yeah. Or they're actually provoking uh some of this occurring. So this is

this is really strange, but Malgm on his deathbed told Pipa, his daughter, that he saw an interview

from one of the surviving beings from Roswell and that taped. What's that? Taped a taped interview.

A taped interview. Okay. Okay. So he saw Sorry, just abundance of clarity. No, no, a taped

interview. So Melgrim on his deathbed. Yes. Told his daughter Pippen. He was alive and a friend of

mine and that he watched a tape. a taped interview with a captured alien with a captured alien. And

guess what? Guess what the alien said? He the alien gave them the idea to do bluegill triple

prime and have this, you know, specialized X-ray system that would not only be used as missile

defense, but be used to take out UFO material out of the sky to be reverse engineered. So it's that

isn't that like like a like a deal like what like giving him information as to how to retrieve the

material. So you get into this weird thing where like didn't even say that on camera. I know. Well,

there's so much Why would his daughter make that up? No. Why would she make it up? No, that doesn't

make any sense. Well, it's all these things and and and there was kind of a takeown of the uh you

know, there's all these people criticizing Malgm afterwards. They said that. Well, yeah. Well,

I can also I mean, when they're dead. Sure. I can also crush all their argument. They literally, you

know, this is, you know, I don't want to be too tribalistic. Like, I I do think all of this stuff

has to be thought about probabilistically. And like, if there are good points, please make them

against this guy. There's no there no sacred cows. He's making an extraordinary claim. But this guy

was an elite statesman who knew people, you know, at the top of the of the chain. Like literally,

you know, knew knew Nixon personally. He was LBJ, um, JFK, Nixon and Ford, you know, presidential

adviser. And he's not an anybody. He was he was a little bit junior in the in the JFK administration

and was more, you know, in touch with Shrivever. Um, but like yeah, was not was not a nobody.

uh you know t talks about stories with the you know Russian foreign minister do Brinan. His

mentor was Richard Bissell who was founded area 51 and was the deputy director of the CIA the number

two at the entire CIA. We have diaries of his that say meeting with Bissell all over his his

diary his journal. So he definitely knew Bissell. If he had gotten his Q clearance through the CIA

there's no way to use the Freedom of Information Act against highest level clearance Q. Yes. Well,

I think there possibly, you know, UAP group talks about different designations within Q

clearance like a SAP like um I think there's this like special foreign intelligence design.

So the CIA works with the DI DOE and there's a counterintel division actually of uh uh uh the

CIA that like works with the department of energy and I think there are different Q clearances you

can have because DO D sorry Department of Energy because I was told I think it was Chris Melon was

telling me this that they hide things because anything nuclear would be national security.

Yeah. So that's under Department of Energy. If you look at the so you could hide these saps and

woo saps in the under the department of energy act is that yeah if you look at the special um

definition of nuclear material 1954 atomic energy act it's anything emitting any sort of radiation

alpha beta gamma radiation whatever upon retrieval of that thing that is restricted data so it's born

secret automatically automatically secret so if you're an aerospace contractor you don't

need some sort of official clearance designation you know you just automatic you're automatic ally

that is under secret or that umbrella. Yeah. Wow. So, so, so you have this this, you know,

this blog came out trying to debunk Malmrren, but if he got a skew clearance through the CIA,

they'd have no idea uh that, you know, they you can't use a freedom of information against that.

This was at the time where, you know, not official covers, this idea of being a knock for the CIA was

like rampant. like a ton of these guys. And he was at a federal funded uh research and development

center um called the IDA, the the Institute for Defense Analysis, which has instituted

every or has helped with every single missile defense system that the US has built since then,

since Bluegill Triple Prime. And he said in a 2024 interview before he interviewed with me that his

work at the IDA was actually a cover for what he was doing for the National Security Council in

the White House. So you have all these arguments that oh, he was just at the IDA. who's like some

junior guy like no he's already talked about this and his mentor by the way was extremely high up at

the CIA this is what you're really good at you're really good at putting these complex pieces of the

puzzle together it's like oh this is like this like that that makes sense and this is over here

it's like duh important well totally important are you kidding me and I love the deep dives that you

do just like when I put the maps up for Venia this witness was here this witness turns out to

be there it's like oh my gosh it all lines up you have a full picture you have a full picture just

like what you're doing on the inside like you're creating that full picture which is mandatory for

what you do. Like when I'm in the field putting the pieces of the puzzle together when we met it

made perfectly good sense cuz we knew for de for decades that it went initially alive to regional

right that it was humanitas. Now we have we have to get to humanitas. We're working on that now.

Like you know what I mean? You're putting the piece and they're all it's all painting the

picture, right? Like it's incredible just like what you're doing. Yeah. You're putting the all

the pieces of the puzzle together. Where are the different it? It's incredible. And I I'm always

impressed when I watch how you do that. Like I'm doing it in my little way and you're doing,

you know, we're all doing. Yeah. No, it's really cool to watch. That was like There was a couple

of interview deep dive interviews that you did that I was just like, "Holy smokes, you know,

it was very impressive with Hal or was it Hal? Um, uh, Eric Davis." Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that

that whole thing just the deep dives and stuff that you do is very impressive to watch. Well,

I'm excited. It's fun to watch all this stuff accelerate. And we're we're in this together.

Yes. We support each other. Yes. I remind people out there that to to we're stronger together. Be

kind. Particularly those you disagree with. It's okay that we disagree. That's fine. Yes. Nothing

wrong with that. Yes. And uh you know, I'm not out here screaming ET from the hilltops. I'm not. I

I'm I'm curious. I want to know desperately what's behind it all. It's easy to it's easier and lazier

to impugn somebody's motives and say that they're a bad actor than to actually tackle the substance

or give them a platform so they can they can cough up the goods. Yeah. Exactly. Why not? Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. Yes. So, I'm just going to criticize you and I'm not going to, you know, uh I'm not going

to, you know, continue like people give these breadcrumbs. I think about like David Grushk

for instance, you know, he comes forward, it's like, all right, well, you know what, you know,

extraordinary claims if you want to say prov, you know, give us extraordinary evidence, but why not

create that platform for David G to build to do that? He's refrained, he's restrained, he's scared

for his safety, his family safety, like he could get locked up. I mean, those are real concerns

that these people have. Yeah. You think he's going to fall on his face? Okay, give him the one time

clearance. Let him go back. That's exactly right. like or or put him out to testify under oath. Like

why why wouldn't we do that? Yeah. You know, so yeah. Anyway, I Yeah. Have you Okay. Yes, sir.

You got I got more for you cuz you you've seen so much history. So, have you ever seen a saucer in

a hanger? [ __ ] I wish. Are you kidding me? Come on. Cuz of all people, if I was on the inside, I'd

say I'd say James. I can neither nor kid. I wish. Have you ever been taken into a skiff? Yes, you

have. Yes. Have you ever seen anything interesting in a skiff? Yes. Yes. What did you see? I I can't

talk about that because they asked me not to, but I said if that goes out, that's not going to look

good for you guys. That's that flies in the face of all the testimony that I've ever heard. So,

not as good as things you've seen in the open source. Yeah. And it was so funny too because

I I had just put out the program and I met with a number of government insiders that intel insiders,

excuse me, that described the exact computer uh the computer that has access to all the good,

you know what I mean? UFO files and stuff like that. And I was sitting there looking at it in

the skiff and I'm thinking if I could have just a few minutes of that computer, you know what

I mean? Yeah. No, it was really crazy. was what a kind of a pinch yourself moment when I was in

there with John Klesclowski the the the new head of Arrow which I liked him actually. I like you

thought he was cool. I did way cooler than Sean Kurpatre that's for sure. Sean Kurpatre man that

guy that I maybe that guy was red in or something. I don't know that guy was I don't trust that guy

at all. I don't either. John Kusclowski was a really nice guy. I looked him in the eyes. He

seemed like a sincere, honest nice guy. I did not get a bad vibe from him. But I was talking openly

cuz I was like what I have to lose. They know who I am. Like I was talking about Rua. I was talking

to you know Vinia. I was talking about Sakura. All these different cases. And I was like you know you

know you're going to draw the conclusion after all the other you've exhausted every other possibility

that we are dealing with a small percentage of probably non-human intelligence. Right? I

mean you you know that like what's the plan to tell the public? And they were both very quiet.

And um John goes, he goes, "You know, James, very soft, like non I liked him. I got a good

vibe from him." And he's like, "You know, James, I can't part my hair without the approval of the

DoD." Whoa. And then he goes, and you can quote me on that. Okay, you're quoting him on that. But I

was in the skiff and u it was just like in the movies, you I went in I went in it was not too

far from the Pentagon and I had to get a 48 hour background check which I passed. Thank god. And

then I had to go through all the security, take everything off and go through all the Oh my gosh,

that took forever. And then they had these like glass tube like things. I felt like it

was in Star Trek or something. They I think they went to the ceiling or they were pretty high up.

Glass tubes and you walk up to it and one side opens and you step in and then that closes and

another one opens and now you're in the inside. And then I go to a locker. They probably got my

phone data and I took all my all my electronics and I put it in the locker and you know and then

we went to a big door with a thing and you know just like you almost like a bank vault looking

door and it opened up and it was a it was a it was I thought it was going to be like a kind of a

small room but it was hu it was like the whole the whole office area was all one big skiff, right?

and they walked me in there and I was just like, "Oh my god, this is crazy." Actually, before

before uh we went into this gift and I just gotten through security, I had this badge and I was like,

"I really want a picture of this badge cuz I just want to, you know, want to have it from

memory." So, I Okay, can I use the bathroom? You know, oh, sure. It's I went in the bathroom. Click

took a picture of the badge, which I have cuz I don't know. It's It's not illegal, right? Take a

picture of the badge. But anyway, they take me in this down this hallway. There's a bunch of

different cubicles and take me down this hallway. And then there was like a door on my right and a

door on my left. The door on my right was closed. The door on the left was open. And there was like

a I don't know if it was a round table or if it was slightly like um like uh what do you call um

um oblong or whatever. But anyway, there were four or five people, couple girls, couple guys in

suits, nicely dressed, sitting there. And they said, "Wait right here." And I, like I said,

I had a door to my on my right and I had this open door on my left and I couldn't help myself. I was

just like, you know, kind of listening in on the convers. I just I was sc What else am I supposed

to do? I stopped where they told me to stop and I'm and then they looked at me and they got up and

they closed the door of my face. Ah, and then uh and then John Klascowski with another guy from OSI

came and and met with me and open opened the door in that room and then we went inside there and

that's when we had I don't know maybe a 30-minute conversation and in that conversation was he

admitting that the UFO stuff is real? They didn't say no and they didn't say yes. They were just sat

there quietly. Okay. Yeah. because I was like this case and this case and this case and they

didn't and then they did say that the phenomenon was mandatory viewing for anyone who worked for

Arrow. Interesting. Well, that's cool. Isn't that cool? That's pretty awesome. I was like,

"Wow." Yeah, that was a nice little You know, I'm telling you, you're doing as much work for they're

they're learning from you. Wait a second. Are you ready? There you go. Nice graphic. I don't know. I

I love my little phenomenal t-shirt. I got to buy one. I go, "No, I'll give you some energy." No,

I The first time I went on Rogan and I I I was like, I'm not going to be the guy who gives them a

t-shirt on camera. I'm going to do it afterwards. Yeah. I always do that, too. You know what I mean?

So, I give him a t-shirt afterwards. On camera is basically like, here's an advertisement. Like,

hey, you know, and uh and I don't even own the phenomena anymore. And none of the proceeds go

to me, but I still want people to watch it because I'm very proud of that body of work and everyone

that's in the credits deserves it. But um but I gave it to Joe Rogan and you know really

appreciate and and uh oh so you know when we went to dinner with Joe Rogan the night before with

Jacqu Filelet and one other guy from his team. It was great man. We we drank really nice wine.

Oh was five course. Oh it was incredible meal. Oh my lord we had so much fun. I was was a wonderful

Joe's such a nice guy man. Like just really a nice guy you know care what anybody says about

you. You meet him and you hang out with him. This guy's cool. Nice guy, man. And super fulfilled

and like so humble and just kind and generous and anyway, I got up from the meal and I went

discreetly out like I was going to the bathroom and I paid for the meal. Oh, and it wasn't cheap.

And uh and and came back and he you know after like 20 more minutes he's like hey can you know

can we get the bill here please? And and the guy goes it's been taken care of. And Joe looks over

And I got the impression like nobody does that. What? How did he react? Well, he was shocked. He

was like, you you know, oh my god, nobody, you know, I was like, oh, hey, man, that's the least

I can do. Thank you. Anyway, um, but I gave him the t-shirt. Yeah. And two or three days later,

I could everyone's blowing me up. Joe Rogan's wearing your t-shirt on his podcast. And there

he was rocking the phenomenon on his podcast. How cool is that? That's so cool. You know what

I mean? He just did the same with ours merch last week and it was just so it was so so nice of him.

It's so cool. He has helped so many people. He's created so many careers. So many I'll give you an

example. When I I got an Uber ride uh when Joe uh Joe flew me in first class, which is incredible.

Then I had a driver pick me up and the driver he was like, "Oh, you're going on Joe? Oh god,

I love that guy." And I was like, "Oh." He goes, "Let me tell you, man. I was really down on my

luck and I was just things weren't going well and I was just really struggling and he goes, I I was

I was on to take Joe to some place and I got the address wrong and I I got him lost and I you know,

15 minutes longer than it should have been and I felt terrible. He was, you know, Joe Rogan's

such an important guy and he's got all this stuff going on and man, I felt terrible and Joe's like,

"Hey man, wait here. I got I'll be right back. I need to go to this one location. Come back."

And Joe came back and he tipped him like $2,000. He gave him some huge tip and he goes, "That saved

my life. I was behind on my rent. I was like really struggling financially." He goes, "Joe

did that for me." And I'm a random stranger. Like just screwed up his his ride. And I heard That's

wild. Yeah. And I heard that from just about everybody that I encountered in the Austin area

about how Joe would do a random act of kindness and generosity, help people like No, he is like

he's like that. He he called me out of the blue and was like just super complimentary like like

just so nice and and uh yeah, he's so generous. And um what else? So, I mean, there's that story

of this mi Miss Pat, this comedian. She uh I think right when COVID hit or whatever was struggling or

whatever, and she was like, "The only guy that called me was Joe Rogan, you know, and like Oh,

really? Yeah. He really he really cares." And he does care and and he really does sincerely care.

And you hear all the stories behind the scenes of people that have had encounters with him and

had nothing but nice things to say. Nothing but nice things to say. And I say the same thing.

Like I'm incredibly grateful for the exposure he's given all of us. All of us. I think he's more than

anybody bent the timeline towards exposure and even an interest in any of this. No question. And

it allows like more, you know, kind I find I think I'm sort of this niched like you know compared to

Another thing that I really love about Joe is that Joe has President Trump on Joe has Bernie Sanders

on. Yeah. Joe has opposing viewpoints. He's kind to everybody. like he gives them a platform cuz I

think like it's so easy nowadays like oh you're on the left or you're on the right or you're in

the middle or you're whatever and you know you're the you're the devil. We disagree therefore you're

the devil. And I just like that bothers me because I'm friends with all you're cool and you're a nice

person. We're good. You know what I mean? Like and I'm friends with people that are both sides of

the spe we don't even care. We're high five. We're really close and tight good. You know what I mean?

Like I don't believe in the demonizing of someone just because they have a different viewpoint than

you do. That's just so wrong. I know. It's so wrong. Yeah. Yeah. The internet allows you to

do that. You you um compress somebody into this 2D thing. Exactly. You're you're like this avatar

that like you know you're some evil like you know and you're not actually just like this full

dimensional like you have a human being with like a family and like you totally it's like we're all

it's all good. I know. I know. But then none of those people would say those things to your face,

you know? It's just it's this keyboard warrior. That's a very good point. BS. It's like Yeah,

that is a very good point. Yeah. When you meet him like I always say like like I've

said some things very rarely and particularly not publicly, but I said I I said this, you know,

to this person's face. So, I was like, "Hey, you know, I really hurt because of X, Y, and Z,

and I really appreciate it if you, you know, cuz I feel like if I have an issue with anybody,

I'm going to tell say it to their face." Totally. Cuz that's the way it should be. I'm not going to

sit there and like, "Oh, he said this and no, it's like, I got an issue. Let's hash it out.

I'm pissed off. XY." And we all make mistakes. I piss people off inadvertently, you know? Like,

oh [ __ ] I'm so sorry they were offended or I said the wrong thing. And like, hey,

all you can do is go back and make an apology. I'm really sorry. I hope you forgive me. And

nine times out of 10, people are like, "You know what? That's cool. We're good." Yeah,

it's all Yeah, totally. Yeah, 100%. Have Okay. Have you ever been asked to bury a story?

Sort of. Sort of. Okay. What does that mean? Like, hey, sort of like uh I've had to like

this this meeting never happened. Okay. Uh we don't discuss any of the details that I just gave

you. And I feel like if I violated that trust, I wouldn't get in the door with these people. No,

I I mean valuing relationships over Yeah. Yeah. No, I I mean more like you were covering a thing

independently. Somebody entered your life and said you can't cover. Okay. Kind of because

it was an aspect of the story that I got from the inside that they didn't want that aspect

out as part of the story that I was covering and I made them the promise that I wouldn't.

Was that for the program? No. Okay. No, earlier than that. Earlier than that. Well, earlier and

later. Okay. I'm not trying to be No, no, no. They just asked me not to mention it and and I respect

that. That How How did they find out? How did that How did they find out that you were covering the

thing? Oh. Oh, my my work is public. Okay. Okay. So, you were like you were starting to surface.

It was a followup on a previous thing that I'd reported on and they were like, "Don't take that

further. Don't don't don't mention that we showed you this and don't mention that we Okay. You know.

Okay. So, I said I wouldn't. Damn. I know. Do you want Do you think that that if people knew that

thing that would move the needle as far as overall disclosure? Uh, no. No, not really. Okay. Um,

I I think the uh I think the Hullman landing footage exists and I've talked to a number of

people and I didn't when I first heard about it I was like come on a landing contact please

please like come on. Yeah. You know uh but now I'm convinced the Hullman did happen and I think that

would obviously move the needle particularly if you know why are you convinced? Well, because I

was investigating Sakoro and that happened in ' 64, April 24th, 1964. And in the process, and I

spent 5 years investigating that case on and off, I met with Ray Stanford, RIP, uh, who was the one

of the lead investigators, wrote the book Sakoro Saucer on a Pentagon Pantry. And in the process

of investigating, I was reading all the articles. I went to the house. I befriended his wife, Mary,

daughter, son, Michael. And I'm reading, I'm going through all the newspaper clippings. I'm going to

the national archives. And I mean, I'm really doing a deep dive into that case cuz my god,

it's a very good case. And I came upon a couple of articles, coincidentally, haphazardly, you know,

written by Corral Lorenzan of the UA UFO Bulletin, I think it was called. and um she had talked

about uh this land in Hollowman. She interviewed someone that was in an airplane that witnessed it

and someone that was on the ground at the base that witnessed it. Both military officials and

apparently she was a respected journalist and and I was like h this is interesting. like this is an

original, you know, article and I was looking at it like h and that led me to uh Bob uh uh

come on uh the two guys that made the film uh UFOs past, present and future, Emger and Alan Sandler

and Enegger in particular. And then of course that led me to to Colonel William Coleman who

had that dramatic encounter uh with UFO and B-55 over Alabama, but also he was later on part of

Project Blue Book. He was a public spokesman for the for the Pentagon during the time the

film was being made. And I started poking around and started as a side investigation. I started to

look into the landing case that they kind of um put forth as a concept that may something that

might have happened already that maybe would happen in the future in their film. Right.

And uh and then that led me to uh you know Emgger who talked with the the guy Paul Shart who's at

the archive processed the film of the landing talked about it in great detail. I interviewed

Bob Emman which I'm going to release for free. All my archives coming up soon. I just been so

busy. I digitized them all and now they're all digitized now. I just have to go through them and

edit them and I'm going to and I'm going to put them all out there for free for everybody. Cool.

Um uh but anyway and and based on that and then Alan Sander was shown the footage by Paul Shardle.

He's convinced that it was a real flying saucer. No question about it. Three came in over the base.

Two peeled away. One came down and landed. And he goes, "James, just like in a in a sci-fi movie,

there was no there was like a a seamless door that just opened and dropped." Alan Sandler happens to

think that it was our technology in this whenever it was shown to him in the 70s. I think he was

shown it in 7273 but it was taken in the '60s I believe is what Paul Shartel said. Um and

uh he thinks it was our technology our flying saucers that we had and they dressed people up

to look like aliens as a staged event. But he goes it wasn't doctorred. It was a real flying saucer

that really flew and that really came down and landed uh over the base and it was filmed on a

tripod which means they anticipated it coming cuz you don't have a trip camera sitting on a tripod

unless they're filming something else unrelated and then the event happened. Either that or they

just saw it happening because I I asked those details and he said they were met with a bunch of

uh military base commanders in uniform got into a jeep off they went disc just sat there on the

ground and then the film footage ends. He thinks it was staged. He thinks it was a real disc, real

technology, real flying saucer that really flew in the 60s and that it was a That's what he thinks.

Why does he Why does he think that? I don't know. I guess it was hard for him to imagine that real

aliens. I don't I really don't know. Okay. But he said that they had Egyptian headdresses, big

noses, slits for mouth, tall. Yeah, kind of tall. Not not short. So that and and some sort of device

that they assumed would have been a communication device. Okay. But if he's saying that, is that

like were there makeup artists involved? Like what? Evidently, there would have been according

to him. They dressed them up in was like [ __ ] That was a real event. It was an extraterrestrial.

Paul Shart, who had the footage, who processed the footage at Norton Air Force Base Absolutely

to his death said that was a real event. And then of course, I've talking to other people

that have subsequently he's come out with it. Eric Davis said that uh either he was told about it.

President Bush was either senior was either told about it or shown it. I can't remember.

Do you know? Eric Davis said that he talked to President Bush about it. I I know there's some

relation there, but I don't know. As head of the CIA, he was made aware of it accidentally

and that's how he became aware of it, but I don't know if he was shown it. Eric Davis would know. So

fascinating. Well, we could go back and forth all day, man. I love talking to you and you're such a

treasure trove of deep knowledge when it comes to UFOs and inspiration for I don't really feel

like that. I I know what I know talking directly to witnesses around the world and that's it. But

you have a much deeper understanding of so many of the complexities and intricacies from what you do

and I respect that. But it's great. We compliment each other. I don't know. I don't know anything

man. Neither do I. I know. I know less than I did when I It's the more you know, the less you know,

you know. Totally. And uh the more the more questions you have and the weirder it gets.

You expect it to neatly collapse into oh it's like either all man-made, you know, anti-gravity

vehicles plus plus MK Ultra or whatever. And then you go or or it's just these beings and they're

like from this specific place and you like no. And it's like I haven't gotten either of those. Like

it just keeps getting weirder and weirder as I'm sure you've experienced. And so please, you know,

don't put me in that position. go out under the night sky in the remote desert and look up and

just realize just how vast the known universe is. Yeah. And the possibilities of life. One of

the things we covered out of the blue very early on was like the equations of the possibilities of

life. Yes. In the universe and it's like 100% like it just comes out at 100. There was uh that book

uh written by air zel probability one years ago back in the 90s you know and it was like

mathematically we are not alone look yes you know come on yes could be all the and life is

bizarre life is absurd and bizarre consciousness itself is weird like what what is happening nobody

can you know has a great answer for that and uh I think the framing of disclosure it's both exciting

because maybe we're on the precipice of this you know big reveal But it's also kind of a misnomer

because I think, you know, per the messages that maybe a lot of these beings seem to transmit,

we're in more of a position ourselves to know the truth than we might realize. And I don't think

the government has monopoly on an understanding of metaphysics. I do think they have asymmetric

understanding of maybe some technology and they might have some more materials and might have some

more footage and concrete evidence than civilians do. But the idea that they have some sort of like

ontological understanding of the universe that like you know people can't achieve without them

giving that info. I mean great let's let's get the info amazing but it's also like a low agency thing

you know it's like we can we can do it ourselves too and and and and anyone can understand this

stuff if they reach for it. So I don't know or or or understand it or or or or uh understand more

of it. you know, one you pull on one thread, you get like three more in its place. But, you know,

I think we can ascend much greater to much greater heights kind of intellectually than, you know,

give ourselves credit for. One little thing in the t-shirt, but I'm kidding. You got some gummy

bears, some James Fox gummy bears. Just what, you know, that's really cool. Speaking of which,

my swag. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, I I want to thank you for having me on. I want to thank

you for all your support. I really appreciate it. Oh, man. I really I really mean that. No,

it's an honor to get to know you and and um yeah, really, you know, ride in your your wake

that you've created, you know, aerodynamically. I get to I get to Hey, we're all in this together.

We all make our contribution. Absolutely. Well, go check out what's the what's the it's moment

of contact New Revelations of Alien Encounters. It was we did a complete because we really felt

like I felt like you know processing you got all the congressional hearings, right? And that like

I think about mainstream I think about skeptics. Fair enough. It's very healthy to be skeptical

but I think about trying to process like those allegations made under oath by Grush and Blue

and all the all the others um of crash retrievals and live aliens and biologics, right? So I kind

of like took the first 20 minutes completely new condensed those congre those those hearings as

you saw. condense those hearings and then hey you know what as extraordinary as this sounds

it's not the first time and I give really quick examples of various you know magenta we go to

Italy we you know Roswell very quickly I don't get bogged down in those old cases but boom boom boom

you know Kexsburg uh uh Kingman um the landing at Bentwaters just really statements of craft landing

landing or crash on the ground and then but the best case you know and then we do a deep dive

into Varia with all the new testimony from two forensic pathologists, from the chief of police,

new crash witness, plus the lead neurosurgeon at regional hospital. And none of these people are

coming forward in this new cut. No one is coming forward anonymously. They're putting their names,

their reputations, their faces out there for the whole world to see. Yeah. Well, thank God they

did, and thank God you went out there and and got the footage and keep going back there. And yeah,

it's just uh it's an honor to to speak with you. Go watch this movie cuz I think it's going to be

I think it's going to be earthshattering. Especially watching Italo Venturelli,

this neurosurgeon. Just his revelation just feels so important. This this this testimony of being

face to face with an alien being for that long. I'm told it's the first time in history. Luckily,

you know, we never had with Roswell, right? We didn't have with any of these

other cases where we have we don't have video of this of these. Yes. Yeah. I mean,

obviously it would be great to get the ultimate prize, right? I mean, to get No, no, but you have

video of him. And he and he's still alive now. He's still alive. He's still alive. He's like,

I I asked him, would you put your hand in a Bible? Would you testify? You know, would you

take a Yes. All the above? Yes. And now the whole entire doctor medical community in the region are

all supporting him, getting behind him. And I'm told there are other doctors that are considering

when the time is right to come forward. So, we're we're at the beginning of the beginning.

I'm I'm I'm quite honestly very excited about it and we'll see how it's received. Yeah. Well, let's

hope your dream becomes a reality and somebody slips a thumb drive that's real in your pocket.

Or maybe it goes down in a in a in a in a way that's more manageable for you. I don't know. But

I'm trying. Even if it gets out there, and by the way Mhm. I'm going to make this abundantly clear.

Unless I have to If somebody gives me the footage, I'm giving it away for free. I'm not going to

charge a dime for it. I love that. If I have to pay for it, I'll have to recoup my investing to

pay those people back and then I'll put it out there for free. But if I get it, I'll give it

to the world for free. I swear on my unless I have to pay for it, reimburse the investors,

then I'll reimburse it and then I'll put it out there for free. Yeah. Yeah. Go to jamesfox.com

behind a payw wall. No, that won't happen. I promise. No, I think that's the right attitude

along with like, you know, wanting other people to follow up on your research and and you're you're

the paradigmatic example of that cuz you're having Amar who's a good friend of mine and kind of such

a cool guy. Yeah. He's the best. And he's kind of a correspondent for the show, but he's kind of I

think he's going to start his own thing, I hope. And um he's going to go get some amazing footage

with you. And so you've been so welcoming to me and him as far as you know, come with me. And Oh,

yeah. That's not normal in the space. This there's there are a lot of people, you know, they call

it's like I want to get the quote unquote scoop and like I'll even see like I'll cover a thing

and then somebody will try to like frontr run the thing. It's like and I'm always like great, good,

you cover it, too. We'll both cover you. It's like whatever numbers. Yeah. Yeah. It's like we,

you know, so I appreciate you and um this was this was amazing, man. And uh I'm excited to to do this

and hopefully do this many more times. Thank you, brother. All right. Thank you, J. Bye. All right.

Over the last couple of months, we've been designing the new American Alchemy merch drop,

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