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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,867 --> 00:00:04,367 -[wood creaking] -[dog barking in background] 2 00:00:10,467 --> 00:00:12,700 [insects chirping] 3 00:00:16,066 --> 00:00:19,100 -[door squeaking] -[suspenseful music] 4 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,166 [Mike groaning] 5 00:00:37,266 --> 00:00:39,367 [suspenseful music builds] 6 00:00:43,066 --> 00:00:45,200 [suspenseful music crescendos] 7 00:00:47,767 --> 00:00:49,567 [reporter] So strange and in some ways incredible 8 00:00:50,500 --> 00:00:51,100 might be an understatement for this story. 9 00:00:52,233 --> 00:00:53,867 [reporter #2] It's just always a family legend or lore. 10 00:00:55,033 --> 00:00:56,867 [reporter #3] For decades, they were haunted by hunches, 11 00:00:58,066 --> 00:00:59,767 [Mike] 60 years of speculation, and we're still speculating. 12 00:01:00,266 --> 00:01:01,667 [sirens wailing] 13 00:01:17,300 --> 00:01:18,467 [bird screeching] 14 00:01:21,967 --> 00:01:24,600 [soft pensive music playing] 15 00:01:41,567 --> 00:01:43,166 [man speaking] 16 00:01:46,066 --> 00:01:49,467 Hey, guys. What's goin' on over there? 17 00:01:50,066 --> 00:01:51,567 My name is Mike Carroll. 18 00:01:52,266 --> 00:01:53,567 You want to take a tour, guys? 19 00:01:54,533 --> 00:01:56,867 I've lived in this house all my life, 63 years. 20 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:00,867 This is where I grew up. 21 00:02:01,700 --> 00:02:03,867 You know, we played uh, wiffle ball 22 00:02:04,433 --> 00:02:04,900 and all kinds of crap. 23 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:06,667 -[dog barking in background] -[birds chirping] 24 00:02:09,300 --> 00:02:10,767 I just wanna let you know I'm in "Q." 25 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:13,600 I am a "QAnon." 26 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:15,900 I am a patriot. 27 00:02:18,166 --> 00:02:19,266 I'm a crazy bastard. 28 00:02:20,166 --> 00:02:22,066 [Mike laughing] 29 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,700 For people to understand me, 30 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,200 they have to wait it out, 31 00:02:31,033 --> 00:02:31,767 and they don't have the time for it. 32 00:02:34,266 --> 00:02:37,000 [clock ticking faintly] 33 00:02:37,967 --> 00:02:39,266 Everybody around me, I know they're talking, 34 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,100 saying, "You're crazy." 35 00:02:42,734 --> 00:02:44,500 [music box softly playing] 36 00:02:45,533 --> 00:02:47,000 And I don't care because I believe what I'm saying. 37 00:02:52,166 --> 00:02:54,166 My family would say "He's a hoarder." 38 00:02:55,166 --> 00:02:56,700 OK, I am a collector. 39 00:02:57,934 --> 00:02:59,000 I don't believe on throwing things out because you're gonna 40 00:02:59,834 --> 00:03:00,600 need it, like, ten years down the road. 41 00:03:01,633 --> 00:03:03,100 That screw that doesn't go anywhere, it has to go 42 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:04,367 somewhere down the road, right? 43 00:03:05,700 --> 00:03:08,000 -[armchair creaks] -[Mike groans] 44 00:03:08,900 --> 00:03:09,700 [Chris] I feel very protective of my dad. 45 00:03:11,300 --> 00:03:12,567 Growing up, he was my hero, 46 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,467 and I feel I feel like now, 47 00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:18,867 kind of the roles are starting to reverse. 48 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:21,900 All right, let's see what we have. 49 00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:28,600 My father definitely has very abstract, 50 00:03:29,533 --> 00:03:31,266 that's a good way of putting it, beliefs. 51 00:03:31,934 --> 00:03:32,800 -[Michael] Sir? -[Mike] Hey. 52 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:34,166 -[Chris] Hey, what's up? -[Michael] There he is. 53 00:03:34,734 --> 00:03:35,900 [Mike] Guys, what's up? 54 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:37,200 [Michael] What are you doing over here? 55 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:38,367 [Chris] You know, playing Scrabble. 56 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:40,800 [Mike] Yeah, kicking ass. I'm kicking ass, man. 57 00:03:41,700 --> 00:03:42,767 [Michael] Listen, you better be winning. 58 00:03:43,567 --> 00:03:44,867 That's all I do is win. I only win. 59 00:03:46,100 --> 00:03:47,900 [Michael] Me and him definitely don't share the same beliefs, 60 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:49,467 for the most part, 61 00:03:50,300 --> 00:03:52,367 in that area, but love him to death. 62 00:03:53,433 --> 00:03:55,567 [Mike] All right, this bucket has to go upstairs. 63 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:56,800 I don't know what's in it, 64 00:03:57,834 --> 00:03:59,500 but it's got an oxygen tank in it. 65 00:04:00,367 --> 00:04:01,567 [Michael] Well, there is a bent... 66 00:04:02,500 --> 00:04:03,567 [Mike] Believe it or not, it still works. 67 00:04:04,500 --> 00:04:06,100 [Chris] I've been over his house many times 68 00:04:06,767 --> 00:04:07,400 trying to help him clean up. 69 00:04:08,500 --> 00:04:10,500 Usually, it stays that way for, like, a couple weeks, 70 00:04:11,667 --> 00:04:13,266 and then it just kinda goes back to its original state. 71 00:04:16,166 --> 00:04:17,200 Here we go. 72 00:04:17,967 --> 00:04:18,867 This looks like some home videos. 73 00:04:20,066 --> 00:04:21,800 [Mike] Channel 12 -- Channel 12 camera. 74 00:04:23,467 --> 00:04:24,567 Yeah. 75 00:04:30,767 --> 00:04:31,867 Oh, cool. 76 00:04:32,867 --> 00:04:34,767 Something good. 77 00:04:35,333 --> 00:04:36,000 It's a reel-to-reels. 78 00:04:37,867 --> 00:04:39,967 [camera whirring] 79 00:04:41,767 --> 00:04:44,066 [peaceful classical music] 80 00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:49,867 [Mike] I grew up in what I thought was a pretty normal family. 81 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,266 Two-parent home, nice neighborhood, 82 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:54,400 brother and sisters. 83 00:04:55,667 --> 00:04:57,367 I was the youngest of the four. 84 00:05:01,367 --> 00:05:02,767 My mom's name was Dorothy, 85 00:05:03,467 --> 00:05:04,500 but everybody called her Dottie. 86 00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:09,600 I had a sister named Jean, a brother named Steve, 87 00:05:11,266 --> 00:05:12,467 a sister named Pat. 88 00:05:13,667 --> 00:05:14,667 She's a little complicated, 89 00:05:15,533 --> 00:05:16,800 but that's -- that's a different story. 90 00:05:19,066 --> 00:05:20,166 And then there was Richard. 91 00:05:22,467 --> 00:05:24,867 In the beginning of my life, I thought this guy was my dad. 92 00:05:26,100 --> 00:05:28,467 But then it came to light that my real father 93 00:05:28,967 --> 00:05:29,567 walked out on us. 94 00:05:30,667 --> 00:05:32,000 [projector whirring] 95 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:35,900 [ominous music] 96 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:39,500 [lighter clicks] 97 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,800 [cigarette sizzling] 98 00:05:45,967 --> 00:05:48,867 [Jean] My brother, Mike, is seven years younger than me. 99 00:05:49,533 --> 00:05:51,166 He doesn't remember my dad. 100 00:05:52,066 --> 00:05:53,000 I do. 101 00:05:53,967 --> 00:05:54,767 -[projector whirring] -[tense music playing] 102 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,166 I remember him around me all the time. 103 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:03,567 I know I was daddy's girl. 104 00:06:06,266 --> 00:06:08,600 You know, my dad was there, 105 00:06:09,567 --> 00:06:10,967 and then all of a sudden my dad wasn't there. 106 00:06:13,100 --> 00:06:17,266 This is a picture of me on my dad's motorcycle. 107 00:06:18,133 --> 00:06:19,266 I believe at the time he had a Harley. 108 00:06:24,266 --> 00:06:26,467 [hinge squeaking] 109 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,500 [Steve] My memories of my dad, George Carroll, 110 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,400 they, unfortunately, they're starting to get 111 00:06:37,867 --> 00:06:38,400 a little fuzzy. 112 00:06:38,934 --> 00:06:40,100 [motorcycle revving] 113 00:06:41,300 --> 00:06:44,367 I know that he served this country in Korea, 114 00:06:45,700 --> 00:06:47,667 and, apparently, he loved his kids. 115 00:06:50,967 --> 00:06:55,000 I do not remember my father actually leaving. 116 00:06:55,467 --> 00:06:56,300 [cars whooshing] 117 00:06:57,900 --> 00:07:00,867 So there wasn't, like, this very distinct moment. 118 00:07:04,100 --> 00:07:07,200 [Jean] My mother would say to us that Dad went out to the store 119 00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:10,367 to get a pack of cigarettes, and he never came back. 120 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:17,100 He kind of disappeared off the face of the earth 121 00:07:18,233 --> 00:07:20,000 all of a sudden, and nobody really knew where he went. 122 00:07:22,967 --> 00:07:25,567 [Mike] Over the years, there were many rumors, many rumors, 123 00:07:26,233 --> 00:07:27,667 and many discussions about, 124 00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:29,967 "Ah, what happened to Dad," you know? 125 00:07:30,700 --> 00:07:31,166 [Steve] We would talk to people. 126 00:07:32,266 --> 00:07:33,600 Then they would give us their theory, and they'd say, 127 00:07:34,667 --> 00:07:36,367 "Well, maybe he was involved with organized crime." 128 00:07:37,467 --> 00:07:39,900 He could've met a woman in Korea, when he was in Korea 129 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:42,400 and decided to go back. 130 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:44,867 -[suspenseful music builds] -[clock ticking faintly] 131 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:46,200 [Mike] Some people that knew my dad, said, 132 00:07:46,900 --> 00:07:47,867 "He's a bit of a troubled guy." 133 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:49,967 [projector whirring] 134 00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:55,600 My mother made it very abundantly clear how she felt. 135 00:07:56,533 --> 00:07:58,166 And she said, "Don't even think about him, 136 00:07:58,734 --> 00:07:59,467 he was not a good guy." 137 00:08:02,767 --> 00:08:05,266 [Mike] In my mind, he obviously didn't love us anymore. 138 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,166 And he loved whatever he left us for more. 139 00:08:12,767 --> 00:08:16,166 In the '60s, '70s, most women didn't work. 140 00:08:17,300 --> 00:08:21,900 So for my mother, when my dad left, how was she gonna 141 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,166 survive through that time with no income coming in? 142 00:08:26,867 --> 00:08:29,867 My mom had to do what she had to do. 143 00:08:30,867 --> 00:08:32,967 And um, and that's how the relationship between 144 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:35,867 my mother and Mr. Darress developed. 145 00:08:39,367 --> 00:08:43,467 [Mike] Richard was just a guy from the neighborhood. 146 00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:44,600 He was nobody. 147 00:08:46,900 --> 00:08:48,000 I think it was convenient. 148 00:08:48,533 --> 00:08:49,367 The guy wasn't ugly, 149 00:08:50,333 --> 00:08:51,300 and he had arms and legs, and he could work. 150 00:08:52,567 --> 00:08:53,867 My mom said, "I'll take him." 151 00:08:54,967 --> 00:08:56,500 He moved in. He became my dad. 152 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,166 [camera snapping] 153 00:09:00,233 --> 00:09:02,367 [Steve] It seemed like it was almost seamless. 154 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,367 He basically... 155 00:09:04,900 --> 00:09:06,300 replaced my father. 156 00:09:06,834 --> 00:09:08,100 [projector whirring] 157 00:09:09,567 --> 00:09:12,266 [Mike] I'd like to say he was a good guy, but I can't say it. 158 00:09:16,667 --> 00:09:17,767 He was mean. 159 00:09:20,266 --> 00:09:21,500 [chokes back sob] 160 00:09:23,567 --> 00:09:24,867 [sniffs] 161 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:28,367 [faint crying] 162 00:09:31,567 --> 00:09:34,000 You guys can keep talking. 163 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,567 I don't want to cry on this thing. 164 00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:39,400 [projector whirring] 165 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,000 As a kid, I -- I just said to myself, I'm like, 166 00:09:42,967 --> 00:09:46,300 "Boy, I really hope that my dad comes back. 167 00:09:47,467 --> 00:09:48,300 I think it was it would be like the best day of my life." 168 00:09:48,834 --> 00:09:50,266 [projector whirring] 169 00:09:52,100 --> 00:09:54,000 But I know I wasn't gonna get what I wanted. 170 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,567 The guy left us. We're done. 171 00:09:56,934 --> 00:09:57,667 He's done. 172 00:10:02,166 --> 00:10:04,266 After a while, you say, 173 00:10:04,834 --> 00:10:05,467 "I just gotta move on." 174 00:10:07,767 --> 00:10:09,867 [rock music playing] 175 00:10:12,667 --> 00:10:15,100 [Mike] I had a paper route when I was a kid. 176 00:10:15,734 --> 00:10:16,567 It was my first real job. 177 00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:18,767 It was pretty cool. 178 00:10:19,867 --> 00:10:21,467 You know, you got recognition for being a paperboy. 179 00:10:22,300 --> 00:10:24,467 I knew all the streets. I knew people. 180 00:10:25,533 --> 00:10:27,900 And there were certain houses in the neighborhood 181 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,266 that actually stuck out because they were really nice. 182 00:10:31,266 --> 00:10:33,166 One of them was this yellow house. 183 00:10:35,367 --> 00:10:39,367 It had a pool with white fence and a big, big frickin' yard. 184 00:10:40,433 --> 00:10:42,767 It was a very pretty yard. It -- it stuck out, OK? 185 00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:44,467 [projector whirring] 186 00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:45,667 I said, "They got money." 187 00:10:47,367 --> 00:10:49,667 Mr. Yagel, who owned that house, 188 00:10:50,333 --> 00:10:51,000 he gave the worst tips, man. 189 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,166 One day, when I was older, the big picture window 190 00:11:00,333 --> 00:11:01,367 in the living room, and I was sitting in the window. 191 00:11:01,934 --> 00:11:02,800 [rocking chair creaks] 192 00:11:03,433 --> 00:11:06,200 And I look out the window, 193 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,767 and you won't believe what I see. 194 00:11:09,667 --> 00:11:11,266 I see Mr. Yagel walking up the sidewalk. 195 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:12,767 And I'm like, "What's he doing here? 196 00:11:13,567 --> 00:11:15,467 He's one of my paper route guys." 197 00:11:16,567 --> 00:11:18,266 He comes up the sidewalks, and he knocks on the door, 198 00:11:18,967 --> 00:11:19,667 and my mother answers the door. 199 00:11:21,367 --> 00:11:22,967 And like, "What the heck's that all about?" 200 00:11:24,967 --> 00:11:27,367 I've never seen the guy ever leave his house. 201 00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:31,100 But he left his house that day to hand my mother a box. 202 00:11:31,767 --> 00:11:33,667 [fan blades whirring softly] 203 00:11:34,533 --> 00:11:35,166 I'm, like, looking through the window, 204 00:11:35,967 --> 00:11:37,066 and there's my mom taking the box. 205 00:11:38,166 --> 00:11:40,000 And they talk for a couple minutes. 206 00:11:40,533 --> 00:11:42,266 [projector whirring] 207 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:43,367 There was anger. 208 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:45,767 She comes in. I said, "What's that? 209 00:11:46,266 --> 00:11:46,867 Why was he here?" 210 00:11:48,166 --> 00:11:50,000 She said, "That's your father's stuff." 211 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:51,667 [ominous music playing] 212 00:11:52,867 --> 00:11:55,266 There was, like, bonds from, like, a really long time ago. 213 00:11:56,567 --> 00:11:57,900 And then, that's when the questions came, 214 00:11:59,133 --> 00:12:01,900 like, you know, "Mom, why would he have anything of Dad's?" 215 00:12:02,834 --> 00:12:03,767 "Why would my father's stuff be with him?" 216 00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:05,400 [projector whirring] 217 00:12:06,867 --> 00:12:09,200 She just kind of downplayed it, like, and she said, 218 00:12:10,066 --> 00:12:11,200 "He was married to your dad's mother." 219 00:12:11,734 --> 00:12:13,266 [projector whirring] 220 00:12:14,867 --> 00:12:16,667 And she died. 221 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:18,367 [projector whirring] 222 00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:22,266 It was like something that just, like, punches you 223 00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:23,600 in your nose. 224 00:12:26,166 --> 00:12:29,200 I collected from that house for years. 225 00:12:30,367 --> 00:12:34,367 And my grandmother was there? And she never said hello? 226 00:12:35,533 --> 00:12:36,200 Why didn't my mother say, "You know, you got the Yagels 227 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,200 on your route? Guess who that is?" 228 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:39,900 That would've been nice, right? 229 00:12:40,433 --> 00:12:41,900 [projector whirring] 230 00:12:42,867 --> 00:12:44,100 And I said to myself, "What happened here?" 231 00:12:44,533 --> 00:12:45,200 Like, you know, 232 00:12:46,166 --> 00:12:47,266 something happened to Dad. 233 00:12:49,266 --> 00:12:52,200 There's something drastically wrong with this story. 234 00:12:52,867 --> 00:12:55,900 And -- and somebody's lying. 235 00:12:56,567 --> 00:12:58,000 [suspenseful music playing] 236 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,767 [dogs barking] 237 00:13:08,166 --> 00:13:11,100 [projector whirring] 238 00:13:11,767 --> 00:13:12,266 [Steve] When we were young, 239 00:13:13,700 --> 00:13:16,166 everything my mother said was gospel. 240 00:13:17,066 --> 00:13:19,300 So, once she said that he left, he left. 241 00:13:19,834 --> 00:13:22,000 [projector whirring] 242 00:13:22,934 --> 00:13:26,000 And that's all I believed for a long time. 243 00:13:30,567 --> 00:13:33,867 But there was a point where we started to think, 244 00:13:34,900 --> 00:13:36,800 "Where did he go? Where is he?" 245 00:13:40,367 --> 00:13:42,700 [Mike] Now I'm getting older, and we're starting 246 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:44,867 to ask better questions, 247 00:13:45,734 --> 00:13:47,767 and they're getting harder to answer. 248 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:52,967 As time went on, little bits and pieces were coming up. 249 00:13:54,133 --> 00:13:57,667 There was no police report. Nobody reported him missing. 250 00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:00,800 [Steve] He left, 251 00:14:01,834 --> 00:14:04,266 but the car was there, and his wallet was there. 252 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:05,567 And then later on, we found out 253 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:07,200 he never picked up his last paycheck. 254 00:14:08,467 --> 00:14:10,467 I think everybody thought that that was strange. 255 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,600 [Mike] I would often ask my mom, "Where is Dad? 256 00:14:17,066 --> 00:14:17,767 Where's my dad?" 257 00:14:18,734 --> 00:14:20,767 And I always got a weird response, weird look. 258 00:14:21,533 --> 00:14:22,000 One time, she even yelled at me. 259 00:14:23,467 --> 00:14:26,200 I'm like -- like this is crazy, 260 00:14:26,934 --> 00:14:27,467 and I don't want any part of it. 261 00:14:29,900 --> 00:14:33,000 So, you know, I started thinking about maybe moving on, 262 00:14:34,567 --> 00:14:35,767 gettin' out of here. 263 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:37,467 [rocking chair squeaking] 264 00:14:39,567 --> 00:14:40,667 [young Mike] There he is. 265 00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:42,100 [Mike] I graduated at 18. 266 00:14:43,367 --> 00:14:45,166 I was the first person to go to college 267 00:14:45,633 --> 00:14:46,900 in this family. 268 00:14:47,767 --> 00:14:49,066 I ended up being a respiratory therapist, 269 00:14:49,633 --> 00:14:50,600 working critical care. 270 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:53,266 Now I'm making money. 271 00:14:55,166 --> 00:14:56,266 I was living my life. 272 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,967 Around that time, my mother 273 00:15:00,734 --> 00:15:01,667 and Mr. Darress got a divorce. 274 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,266 He was cheating. 275 00:15:06,367 --> 00:15:07,667 She took a suitcase and threw it out the front door. 276 00:15:08,767 --> 00:15:10,200 That was a good day. It was a good day. 277 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:16,567 [Jean] After Mr. Darress had left, it was a whole different scene. 278 00:15:17,100 --> 00:15:18,867 Everybody was free. 279 00:15:19,567 --> 00:15:20,400 I'm the queen of this place. 280 00:15:21,567 --> 00:15:23,667 -Stay there. -[Jean] My mother was different. 281 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,600 She was like a person that just came out. 282 00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:27,900 [Dorothy laughing] 283 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,767 -I had a wonderful time. -Oh, I don't want to go home. 284 00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:36,467 [Jean] She, you know, would open up more and get the fun 285 00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:40,867 back in again, and that's when the skit nights were starting. 286 00:15:42,667 --> 00:15:44,100 Skit night's frickin' awesome, man. 287 00:15:44,667 --> 00:15:45,100 It started in this -- 288 00:15:45,967 --> 00:15:47,200 This room, this was a four-car garage. 289 00:15:48,233 --> 00:15:49,367 It was a frickin' auditorium with seats and shit. 290 00:15:49,734 --> 00:15:50,467 [laughter] 291 00:15:51,166 --> 00:15:52,567 [young Mike] Let me come back. 292 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,300 My mom, she was the queen of the night 293 00:15:56,133 --> 00:15:57,266 because she was a frustrated actress. 294 00:15:57,967 --> 00:16:00,367 -[laughter] -[vocalizations] 295 00:16:01,333 --> 00:16:02,967 [Steve] I have very little to say that's not 296 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:04,467 putting her on a pedestal. 297 00:16:05,667 --> 00:16:06,800 [all laughing] 298 00:16:08,166 --> 00:16:10,266 [Dorothy] Eins, zwei, drei. 299 00:16:11,367 --> 00:16:13,100 When I first met the Carrolls, Dottie was having one 300 00:16:13,633 --> 00:16:14,400 of her skit nights. 301 00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:17,000 It was a lot of fun, 302 00:16:18,033 --> 00:16:20,000 but I wouldn't participate 'cause I was too shy. 303 00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:23,166 -[Dorothy speaking] -[all laughing] 304 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,200 [Mike] And then, next thing you know... 305 00:16:26,767 --> 00:16:28,066 [organ music playing] 306 00:16:28,934 --> 00:16:31,867 [Debbi] We got married July 23rd, 1989. 307 00:16:33,867 --> 00:16:37,166 I got pregnant three months after we got married. 308 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,000 โ™ช Ave Maria โ™ช 309 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:45,400 [Mike] I looked at my kids in the hospital. 310 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,100 I'm like, "Wow, like, I can't believe this is happening." 311 00:16:49,166 --> 00:16:51,100 โ™ช Gratia plena โ™ช 312 00:16:52,066 --> 00:16:53,567 They're innocent, beautiful little children, 313 00:16:54,066 --> 00:16:54,900 and they're mine. 314 00:16:55,734 --> 00:16:57,800 ["Ave Marie" continues in background] 315 00:16:58,300 --> 00:16:58,867 And that was life. 316 00:16:59,633 --> 00:17:00,667 It was just, like, totally cool. 317 00:17:01,967 --> 00:17:03,000 -["Ave Maria" playing] -[Mike] There ain't [indistinct] country 318 00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:06,100 Time's up! 319 00:17:07,233 --> 00:17:08,900 [Mike] And then I learned that my mom was struggling. 320 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:10,667 -[man] C'mon in Gary, time's up. 321 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,100 She was having a hard time, you know, paying the cable 322 00:17:14,066 --> 00:17:15,667 and, you know, the little stuff that goes on. 323 00:17:16,567 --> 00:17:16,900 'Cause I think she thought she was gonna 324 00:17:17,734 --> 00:17:18,200 lose the house. -[Dorothy] Thank you. 325 00:17:18,934 --> 00:17:20,000 Give me a hug. Come on, up, up. 326 00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:21,900 [Chris] She wanted to stay in that house. 327 00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:25,166 She was there for 50 years or so. 328 00:17:26,066 --> 00:17:27,767 She was very, very attached to the home. 329 00:17:28,834 --> 00:17:30,667 [Mike] Listen, mom, I'm working now. 330 00:17:31,834 --> 00:17:32,667 I can buy your house from you, and you don't have to pay 331 00:17:33,567 --> 00:17:34,000 another bill for the rest of your life. 332 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,867 We moved into the upstairs. She was downstairs. 333 00:17:40,834 --> 00:17:41,066 [Debbi] The other way Mikey, the other way. 334 00:17:42,066 --> 00:17:42,567 [Mike] It was tough. It was not easy. 335 00:17:45,767 --> 00:17:49,467 One day, Debbi told me she was unhappy. 336 00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:51,700 And I said, "I can't make you happy." 337 00:17:53,967 --> 00:17:55,567 I was divorced in '95. 338 00:17:58,367 --> 00:17:59,667 Not long after that, 339 00:18:00,767 --> 00:18:02,266 we found out my mom had cancer. 340 00:18:02,834 --> 00:18:04,400 [somber music playing] 341 00:18:08,166 --> 00:18:10,100 Well, she begged me, "Do not let me die in the hospital." 342 00:18:11,066 --> 00:18:12,166 I'm like, "All right, I'll make it happen." 343 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,667 [all singing] Happy birthday to you. 344 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,467 [cheering and clapping] 345 00:18:20,166 --> 00:18:21,400 [Mike] When she was sick, 346 00:18:22,367 --> 00:18:23,567 but my dad was always something on her mind. 347 00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:25,200 [projector whirring] 348 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:29,967 On her deathbed, I asked her, 349 00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:32,266 "Mom, can you tell me anything about Dad? 350 00:18:33,367 --> 00:18:35,900 Can you tell me anything about Dad before you leave?" 351 00:18:41,266 --> 00:18:44,200 April 17th, I remember, 1998. 352 00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:50,767 My mother literally turned her head... 353 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,100 winked at me... 354 00:18:54,467 --> 00:18:56,767 never said a word, and then passed away. 355 00:19:06,166 --> 00:19:07,400 Whatever secret she had, 356 00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:09,066 she went to her grave with that. 357 00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:15,367 [exhales heavily] 358 00:19:25,467 --> 00:19:26,700 [Mike groans] 359 00:19:39,166 --> 00:19:42,667 [Chris] When she passed away, it just kind of devastated him. 360 00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:44,867 [pills clinking] 361 00:19:48,767 --> 00:19:51,266 That's when he kind of started with the hoarding and stuff. 362 00:19:56,367 --> 00:19:58,667 [Mike] All right, so we got a lot of stuff in here. 363 00:20:01,767 --> 00:20:03,667 Oh, let's see. 364 00:20:04,533 --> 00:20:05,367 Now, this is a peanut jar my mom had. 365 00:20:06,433 --> 00:20:08,367 It's like, really -- like, it's like 100 years old. 366 00:20:09,066 --> 00:20:09,600 It still has the peanuts in it. 367 00:20:17,467 --> 00:20:19,700 After my mom passed away, 368 00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:22,000 I figured finding my dad was over. 369 00:20:26,066 --> 00:20:27,166 I had to let it go. 370 00:20:31,266 --> 00:20:33,100 Until couple of years later, 371 00:20:34,867 --> 00:20:37,266 I got called into work around 3 o'clock in the morning. 372 00:20:42,767 --> 00:20:44,000 3 o'clock in the morning is, kind of like, 373 00:20:44,834 --> 00:20:45,367 the beginning of the witching hour. 374 00:20:46,567 --> 00:20:48,000 I don't know if you know what I'm talking about, but 3, 4, 375 00:20:49,066 --> 00:20:50,500 5 in the morning, you start to get a little weird. 376 00:20:50,934 --> 00:20:52,000 [sirens wailing] 377 00:20:53,567 --> 00:20:55,467 I go down to the emergency room. 378 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:57,667 -[tense music playing] -[footsteps tapping] 379 00:20:59,367 --> 00:21:02,400 And they said, "Can you get a blood gas on bed 3?" 380 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:03,700 I'm like, "Yeah, sure." 381 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,900 So I go to bed 3. 382 00:21:08,033 --> 00:21:09,367 And I have to check the armband before I do the blood 383 00:21:10,233 --> 00:21:11,100 to make sure you got the right patient. 384 00:21:12,567 --> 00:21:14,767 I check his band and it says "Yagel" on it. 385 00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:16,066 And I'm like, "Something hits the button." 386 00:21:16,567 --> 00:21:17,166 I'm like, "Whoa." 387 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:18,967 [tape rewinding] 388 00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:20,100 [projector whirring] 389 00:21:21,166 --> 00:21:23,266 That's the same name as the guy that brought the box 390 00:21:24,266 --> 00:21:25,867 to my mother's house with my dad's stuff in it. 391 00:21:28,367 --> 00:21:29,600 I'm like, "What the heck's going on?" 392 00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:33,767 So I go, "Did you live around 'konkoma?" 393 00:21:34,467 --> 00:21:35,367 He goes, "No, my parents did." 394 00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:37,767 [projector whirring] 395 00:21:38,867 --> 00:21:40,266 [Mike] I said, "Well, I think I was your paper boy." 396 00:21:41,467 --> 00:21:42,567 And he's like, "Really?" 397 00:21:43,567 --> 00:21:44,667 And he goes, "What's your name?" 398 00:21:45,266 --> 00:21:45,667 I said, "Mike Carroll." 399 00:21:46,533 --> 00:21:47,367 And the guy looked at me like, "What?" 400 00:21:49,667 --> 00:21:50,900 He started flipping out. 401 00:21:51,934 --> 00:21:54,266 He was like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe this. 402 00:21:54,834 --> 00:21:55,767 I'm your dad's brother." 403 00:21:57,166 --> 00:21:58,667 Like, what the hell? 404 00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:00,100 I didn't even know he had a brother. 405 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,100 And I said, "Tell me about my dad." 406 00:22:06,166 --> 00:22:07,500 And he goes, "He would have never left four kids." 407 00:22:10,367 --> 00:22:14,166 We have suspicion that something weird happened. 408 00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:16,500 He said there was construction being done at the time, 409 00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:21,500 and we believe because that the opportunity was there 410 00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:24,266 that he was actually buried under your house. 411 00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:26,500 [suspenseful chord strike] 412 00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:34,767 [Mike] What's the chance of me getting called to the emergency room 413 00:22:35,934 --> 00:22:37,600 at that time in the morning to take blood from somebody 414 00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:39,500 and it winds up being my dad's brother? 415 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,000 It's unbelievable. 416 00:22:44,266 --> 00:22:45,266 -All of a sudden... -[clock ticking] 417 00:22:46,033 --> 00:22:46,667 -[machine beeping] -[IV dripping] 418 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,800 I realized why we were estranged from my dad's family. 419 00:22:51,333 --> 00:22:52,867 [projector whirring] 420 00:22:54,467 --> 00:22:55,967 But then he starts talking about my mother. 421 00:22:57,100 --> 00:22:58,467 He got negative on my mother, 422 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,600 and that's when I decided to shut the conversation down. 423 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,867 [Jean] Mike didn't -- didn't like him from that moment on. 424 00:23:08,066 --> 00:23:09,667 He didn't want to hear nothing, didn't want to know nothing. 425 00:23:10,467 --> 00:23:11,300 -[insects chirping] -[soft thuds] 426 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:12,667 When you say anything about... 427 00:23:13,667 --> 00:23:14,767 his mother. 428 00:23:15,667 --> 00:23:16,767 He's not gonna like you. 429 00:23:18,367 --> 00:23:19,767 That's the way my brother Mike is. 430 00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:21,000 And, well, I am too. 431 00:23:25,467 --> 00:23:27,700 [objects thudding] 432 00:23:28,934 --> 00:23:30,200 [Jean] Mike didn't do anything for a long time after that. 433 00:23:31,266 --> 00:23:33,066 He just kind of handed it over to me. 434 00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:37,367 [log clattering] 435 00:23:41,467 --> 00:23:44,300 [Jean] All my life I was a little girl 436 00:23:44,834 --> 00:23:45,667 looking for my dad. 437 00:23:49,166 --> 00:23:52,467 I was 17 years old when I left the house. 438 00:23:53,767 --> 00:23:54,900 I had to get away from it. 439 00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:58,166 My sister left even earlier than me. 440 00:24:04,767 --> 00:24:07,367 I often wondered what it would have been like 441 00:24:08,033 --> 00:24:09,300 if my dad was still around. 442 00:24:12,166 --> 00:24:15,400 Deep down inside, I was the detective. 443 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:16,900 I was the investigator. 444 00:24:20,667 --> 00:24:22,100 I was gonna find this man, 445 00:24:23,266 --> 00:24:24,667 and nothing was gonna stop me. 446 00:24:31,867 --> 00:24:34,166 I wanted more information. 447 00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:39,600 That's when I asked Mike to come to the psychic with me. 448 00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:47,600 I consider a medium my telephone call to my mom. 449 00:24:48,734 --> 00:24:51,467 I wanted to know if he was able to give us anything more 450 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:52,900 that we didn't know. 451 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,400 Some new fact or some new evidence. 452 00:24:59,934 --> 00:25:00,467 [cashier] Hey, Mike. 453 00:25:01,333 --> 00:25:02,100 [Mike] How you doing? How's it going? 454 00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:08,166 So after the Yagel thing, my sister asked me if I'd like 455 00:25:08,934 --> 00:25:09,467 to come to the psychic with her. 456 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:11,700 And I said, 457 00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:13,567 "Yeah, but you know, I don't know." 458 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:15,166 -[cashier] Thank you very much -[Mike] I'll talk to you soon. 459 00:25:15,967 --> 00:25:16,567 -All right. -Stay out of trouble. 460 00:25:18,266 --> 00:25:20,200 When Jean started to see psychics and look 461 00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:23,867 into psychics, OK, it wasn't a popular thing with us. 462 00:25:24,633 --> 00:25:25,567 No, I don't believe in psychics. 463 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:27,166 I thought she was wasting her money 464 00:25:27,867 --> 00:25:28,667 when she went to the psychics. 465 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,767 I'm not supposed to like them because I'm a Christian. 466 00:25:32,667 --> 00:25:33,567 I don't really like the word "psychics" 467 00:25:34,266 --> 00:25:34,967 because they could be anybody. 468 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,200 They're more scammers than anything. 469 00:25:38,367 --> 00:25:41,200 -I'd rather talk to a medium. -I think it's interesting. 470 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,300 I don't personally believe that it's possible. 471 00:25:46,767 --> 00:25:50,266 Jean probably pled with him and said, you know, 472 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:51,400 "Please go with me." 473 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,066 [Mike] I have to admit that psychics are intriguing. 474 00:25:56,867 --> 00:25:58,100 And Jean's, you know, passionate. 475 00:25:59,066 --> 00:26:01,300 So, I said, "Sure, I'll go to the psychic." 476 00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:03,266 And then, that's when we went to Revered Heil. 477 00:26:13,066 --> 00:26:14,567 I was expecting nothing. 478 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:19,500 She did a full hour, 479 00:26:20,467 --> 00:26:22,100 and we thought we were gonna talk to my mom. 480 00:26:23,867 --> 00:26:25,100 And she didn't come through. 481 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,667 Like, she was being stubborn, you know. 482 00:26:28,567 --> 00:26:29,567 But there was a lot of discussion about 483 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,867 Jean's daughter having a kid, blah, blah, blah, 484 00:26:33,367 --> 00:26:34,867 for a whole hour. 485 00:26:35,967 --> 00:26:38,300 And I said to myself, "This is bull crap," you know. 486 00:26:38,934 --> 00:26:40,266 "This is a bunch of crap." 487 00:26:41,066 --> 00:26:42,667 So the lady looks at me and goes, 488 00:26:43,333 --> 00:26:43,767 "Did you like the reading?" 489 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,100 And I go, "No." 490 00:26:46,166 --> 00:26:47,867 She goes, "Why?" 491 00:26:48,867 --> 00:26:49,400 "'Cause I just I wanna know where my dad is." 492 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,100 She goes, "Oh." 493 00:26:53,567 --> 00:26:57,567 When it comes to the "M" word, you normally don't say anything 494 00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:00,100 until you give me the permission to do it. 495 00:27:01,166 --> 00:27:02,000 I said, "What's the 'M' word?" She goes, "Murder." 496 00:27:02,633 --> 00:27:04,000 [suspenseful chord strike] 497 00:27:06,367 --> 00:27:07,467 [Mike] Wow. 498 00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:10,300 I go, "OK. Now you got my attention." 499 00:27:11,667 --> 00:27:13,166 She goes, "I'll give you another hour for free." 500 00:27:15,266 --> 00:27:16,400 I said, "So, where is he?" 501 00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:23,400 And she said, "He is in the basement." 502 00:27:28,066 --> 00:27:30,800 She goes, "He's down to the left, to the rear, 503 00:27:32,667 --> 00:27:33,867 underneath the target." 504 00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:38,600 I went, "Holy shit!" 505 00:27:39,533 --> 00:27:41,000 I didn't know what she meant by the target, 506 00:27:42,033 --> 00:27:44,100 but Mike understood what she was talking about. 507 00:27:45,066 --> 00:27:46,967 [Mike] I realized when I was four years old, 508 00:27:47,834 --> 00:27:49,000 there was a gun range in my basement. 509 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,166 There was a target for shooting bullets down there, pellets. 510 00:27:58,667 --> 00:28:00,066 The target was on the wall. 511 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,600 [Mike] It was taken out of there, like when I was very young. 512 00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:10,667 So she knew something that was like 55, 60 years ago, 513 00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:12,900 that nobody knew about, and that was impressive. 514 00:28:19,367 --> 00:28:20,467 And then, of course, I asked, 515 00:28:21,567 --> 00:28:22,567 "So who did it?" 516 00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:24,400 [projector whirring] 517 00:28:25,967 --> 00:28:27,066 And she said, 518 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,100 "Richard." 519 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,300 [Steve huffing] 520 00:28:44,066 --> 00:28:45,166 [grunting] 521 00:28:49,467 --> 00:28:52,867 It was late at night. I received a call from Mike. 522 00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:54,300 [phone ringing] 523 00:28:56,367 --> 00:28:57,467 [groans with exertion] 524 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,767 [Steve] And he said, "Are you sitting down?" 525 00:29:01,567 --> 00:29:03,200 and he recounted the whole session. 526 00:29:04,433 --> 00:29:06,000 [Mike, over phone] He says "And I'll tell you one thing..." 527 00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:08,266 [Steve] It was incredible what she said. 528 00:29:09,066 --> 00:29:11,800 She named things, described things 529 00:29:12,367 --> 00:29:13,867 that I knew were true. 530 00:29:15,767 --> 00:29:22,166 But I was skeptical because it's my nature not to deal 531 00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:25,967 with stuff I can't see and touch, you know? 532 00:29:26,867 --> 00:29:29,266 And uh, yeah, I was worried about Richie 533 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:31,667 because I didn't want to have to even say 534 00:29:32,467 --> 00:29:33,100 that I thought it was his father. 535 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:34,500 I didn't even want to go there. 536 00:29:37,867 --> 00:29:40,567 When I was 10 years old, my mom had my brother, Richie. 537 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:44,567 My name is Rich Darress. 538 00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:45,567 Come on. 539 00:29:45,934 --> 00:29:46,667 [grunting] 540 00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:48,900 I got you, buddy. I got you. 541 00:29:49,867 --> 00:29:51,367 I got you. 542 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,567 I am the half-brother of Jean, Pat, Steve, and Mike Carroll. 543 00:29:56,633 --> 00:29:58,166 I'm kind of an outsider a little bit. 544 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,266 You know, I feel like I'm the Darress sometimes. 545 00:30:02,767 --> 00:30:03,367 I'm not a Carroll. 546 00:30:04,433 --> 00:30:06,867 I don't feel like I'm part of the Carrolls so much. 547 00:30:07,667 --> 00:30:08,300 They don't want to tell me anything, 548 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,967 so I find out things much later. 549 00:30:12,266 --> 00:30:15,066 [Mike] Nobody saw Richie differently. 550 00:30:15,767 --> 00:30:17,467 The only thing is that he does 551 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,567 carry a little defense about his father. 552 00:30:25,367 --> 00:30:27,467 [Richard] When they come back from the psychic and say, 553 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,100 "The psychic said our father was murdered 554 00:30:31,066 --> 00:30:33,000 and it was by a Richard." I'm a Richard Jr. 555 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,400 I have a Richard Sr. as my father. 556 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:36,867 So they're insinuating right there 557 00:30:37,767 --> 00:30:40,000 that my father has murdered their father. 558 00:30:41,367 --> 00:30:44,266 Having my four siblings think that my father did that, 559 00:30:45,767 --> 00:30:46,800 that's horrible. 560 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,166 That's a big, you know, an animal to take on at that point. 561 00:30:54,367 --> 00:30:56,367 Is it possible? Sure, it is. 562 00:30:58,467 --> 00:30:59,700 Is it likely? 563 00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:04,166 Probably not. 564 00:31:07,667 --> 00:31:10,400 [all cheering] 565 00:31:11,533 --> 00:31:14,200 [Jean] Richie and Steve, they didn't believe in mediums. 566 00:31:15,166 --> 00:31:17,400 They just felt that they were frauds, scams. 567 00:31:18,066 --> 00:31:18,467 "You're gonna believe them?" 568 00:31:19,266 --> 00:31:20,667 -[ducks quacking] -[car whooshing] 569 00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:23,066 [ducks quacking] 570 00:31:25,767 --> 00:31:29,567 [Jean] But I remember things that they didn't understand 571 00:31:30,767 --> 00:31:31,867 because I was older. 572 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,867 Before my father went missing, 573 00:31:44,934 --> 00:31:50,100 I was, I would say, around seven, eight years old. 574 00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:52,500 I remember getting up one morning, 575 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:53,867 getting dressed to go to school, 576 00:31:55,367 --> 00:32:01,266 and I saw this man sleeping on the couch in the living room. 577 00:32:03,166 --> 00:32:04,367 I didn't know who he was. 578 00:32:05,433 --> 00:32:07,867 And the next day, it was told to me 579 00:32:08,667 --> 00:32:11,100 that his name was Richard Darress. 580 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,400 He had just gotten out of jail. 581 00:32:15,533 --> 00:32:18,166 And my dad said, "Come home with me, and I'll give you 582 00:32:18,734 --> 00:32:19,867 "a place to sleep until, 583 00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:23,700 you know, you can get on your own." 584 00:32:28,567 --> 00:32:31,467 [Richard] I never knew my father and George Carroll 585 00:32:31,900 --> 00:32:33,266 knew each other 586 00:32:33,900 --> 00:32:34,567 until much later in life. 587 00:32:36,967 --> 00:32:38,266 I'm in my 20s, and I called him. 588 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:40,467 I said, "When were you gonna tell me this?" 589 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:43,567 And he told me the whole story. 590 00:32:46,066 --> 00:32:50,200 The version I've heard is that my father, he was a teenager, 591 00:32:51,233 --> 00:32:52,800 and for whatever reason, he stole some equipment, 592 00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:54,166 ham radio equipment, you know, 593 00:32:55,066 --> 00:32:57,166 from the federal government. Stupid move. 594 00:32:59,300 --> 00:33:01,467 He went to prison for a year and a half. 595 00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:02,667 Does his time. 596 00:33:04,867 --> 00:33:08,400 I was told that his parents were embarrassed. 597 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,467 "You can't live with us anymore." 598 00:33:11,467 --> 00:33:13,800 So he went to a bar one day with all his woes. 599 00:33:14,934 --> 00:33:16,800 And he's sitting at the bar, talking to a guy, saying, 600 00:33:18,033 --> 00:33:20,266 "Hey, I need a place to stay." And that guy he was talking to 601 00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:22,367 said, "Hey, I'm doing construction on my house. 602 00:33:25,300 --> 00:33:27,867 If you help me build the house, you can sleep on the couch." 603 00:33:29,467 --> 00:33:31,467 That person he was talking to was George Carroll. 604 00:33:36,667 --> 00:33:40,867 They were working on putting another extension, 605 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,700 a dormer, 606 00:33:44,166 --> 00:33:45,500 onto the house. 607 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,200 He's in the house. 608 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,266 He's living in the house, working at the house 609 00:33:50,934 --> 00:33:51,700 when my father disappeared. 610 00:33:54,667 --> 00:33:56,967 [Mike] Somewhere along the line, my mom 611 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,467 starts talking to him, he starts talking to her, 612 00:34:01,233 --> 00:34:02,066 and somehow something blossomed. 613 00:34:03,767 --> 00:34:05,667 [Richard] You don't know the order of operation. 614 00:34:06,700 --> 00:34:08,667 Did they have an affair? There's no facts there. 615 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,300 Maybe she fell out of love with my father, 616 00:34:11,934 --> 00:34:13,467 fell in love with Darress. 617 00:34:14,266 --> 00:34:15,200 You know, it kind of makes sense. 618 00:34:16,667 --> 00:34:20,166 You know, Darress was there. He was the common denominator. 619 00:34:21,567 --> 00:34:23,266 [Richard] Just the fact that my father was there working on the house 620 00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:26,367 and sleeping on the couch does not mean he has anything to do 621 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,000 with George going missing. 622 00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:34,200 These are a box of photos from my dad. 623 00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:37,867 He was a photographer for a local county newspaper. 624 00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:45,166 I loved my father. 625 00:34:47,100 --> 00:34:48,166 I learned a lot from him. 626 00:34:50,567 --> 00:34:51,667 This is me and my mom. 627 00:34:52,467 --> 00:34:53,767 It says I'm three months old here. 628 00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:54,900 It's a wild picture. 629 00:35:01,467 --> 00:35:03,667 Yeah, this is a -- the summer vacation cabin 630 00:35:04,166 --> 00:35:05,300 we used to go to. 631 00:35:06,433 --> 00:35:08,767 A lot of good times with my family, my father, my mother. 632 00:35:12,767 --> 00:35:14,567 [Jean] When I look at this picture, 633 00:35:16,266 --> 00:35:19,400 it takes me to a dark time. 634 00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:24,700 I felt very, very uncomfortable 635 00:35:25,233 --> 00:35:26,600 of all the pictures 636 00:35:27,667 --> 00:35:28,767 that he would take. 637 00:35:29,867 --> 00:35:31,700 I'm looking... 638 00:35:32,367 --> 00:35:34,600 at my brother Steve's face, 639 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:35,867 Mike's face, 640 00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:39,300 I actually... 641 00:35:41,100 --> 00:35:44,266 feel...disturbance 642 00:35:45,567 --> 00:35:47,367 inside me. 643 00:35:48,033 --> 00:35:49,300 I feel that that was like... 644 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,800 it was disturbance. I could see it on their face. 645 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:57,567 [Mike] My sister Jean, 646 00:35:58,467 --> 00:35:59,600 I said, "She's going crazy." 647 00:36:03,767 --> 00:36:05,867 That's when I made the decision to start doing it. 648 00:36:09,100 --> 00:36:11,867 I didn't do it for the family. I didn't do it for me. 649 00:36:12,367 --> 00:36:13,000 I did it for Jean. 650 00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:18,100 I said, "I'm gonna go find him. 651 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:20,300 I'm gonna dig." 652 00:36:27,266 --> 00:36:29,166 [Mike] People at my job, they looked at me like, 653 00:36:30,066 --> 00:36:31,867 "You're crazy." My family, "You're crazy." 654 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,667 The only person that was with me was Jean. 655 00:36:37,867 --> 00:36:39,967 Just about everything I do in my life 656 00:36:40,633 --> 00:36:41,567 has always been questioned. 657 00:36:45,266 --> 00:36:46,400 And you know what the bottom line is? 658 00:36:47,467 --> 00:36:48,667 I always win. 659 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,000 I started digging and sifting the dirt into a garbage can 660 00:36:57,900 --> 00:36:59,100 and looking for bones on a screen to see 661 00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:00,567 if there was anything like a bone. 662 00:37:04,967 --> 00:37:08,066 All I had to do was find one bone, and that job was over. 663 00:37:10,667 --> 00:37:12,266 I was digging for like a year and a half. 664 00:37:14,266 --> 00:37:16,600 Nobody else helped. Nobody else offered to help. 665 00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:20,166 I couldn't give it up. I couldn't stop. 666 00:37:21,667 --> 00:37:24,667 One day, I go to his house, and there's a six-foot 667 00:37:25,367 --> 00:37:26,667 pile of dirt in the basement. 668 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,900 He was actually starting to cut through the foundation, 669 00:37:31,567 --> 00:37:32,100 the house was gonna cave in. 670 00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:35,367 Oh, my God. 671 00:37:36,166 --> 00:37:37,166 "You gotta stop doing this, Mike. 672 00:37:37,867 --> 00:37:39,700 You're gonna wreck your house." 673 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,166 [Mike] I had to stop. 674 00:37:49,567 --> 00:37:51,266 I didn't find anything, 675 00:37:52,100 --> 00:37:53,867 and it was very disappointing to me. 676 00:37:54,633 --> 00:37:55,367 I really wanted to find something. 677 00:37:57,567 --> 00:38:00,100 [mouse clicking] 678 00:38:00,967 --> 00:38:03,066 [faint indistinct voices from computer] 679 00:38:07,166 --> 00:38:10,367 [Chris] I felt bad for my dad 'cause he spent a lot of time talking 680 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,100 about it, and then he doesn't find what he was looking for. 681 00:38:15,700 --> 00:38:18,166 And I think it kind of took a little bit of a toll on him. 682 00:38:20,867 --> 00:38:22,700 I think he started to become a little bit, 683 00:38:23,967 --> 00:38:25,066 I guess, like, depressed. 684 00:38:26,233 --> 00:38:28,667 [indistinct voices continue from computer] 685 00:38:37,166 --> 00:38:39,100 [Chris] On top of it, me and my brother, 686 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,767 we went away to college, so... 687 00:38:42,767 --> 00:38:45,567 I feel like, in a way, he kind of felt a little 688 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:46,667 abandoned by us. 689 00:38:48,667 --> 00:38:50,400 [cabinet clicks] 690 00:38:51,533 --> 00:38:53,500 [Chris] My dad gradually started to just stop caring 691 00:38:54,066 --> 00:38:54,800 about the house as much. 692 00:38:55,633 --> 00:38:56,266 And, you know, there would be a leak. 693 00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:57,500 He doesn't care. 694 00:38:58,734 --> 00:39:00,066 It's just dripping into a garbage pail in the living room. 695 00:39:01,900 --> 00:39:04,900 At the time, we had many conversations with my dad, 696 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,800 my brother and I, 697 00:39:07,433 --> 00:39:07,967 about potentially moving. 698 00:39:11,667 --> 00:39:14,567 [Chris] He told me that he will never leave that house 699 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,867 unless he found if his dad was in that basement. 700 00:39:18,433 --> 00:39:19,567 [CPAP machine whirring] 701 00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:24,467 [Mike] I think down deep inside, I had a mission. 702 00:39:26,367 --> 00:39:28,266 And I wasn't gonna leave here until I tried. 703 00:39:29,567 --> 00:39:31,166 [baby babbling] 704 00:39:31,734 --> 00:39:32,900 [faint noise from TV] 705 00:39:34,166 --> 00:39:36,166 [Chris] If I was going to get my dad to move out of that house, 706 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,800 I knew that I was gonna have to dig. 707 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,166 The problem was we didn't know where to dig. 708 00:39:47,900 --> 00:39:51,000 I started googling ground penetrating radar companies. 709 00:39:52,467 --> 00:39:54,266 Ground penetrating radar is usually used 710 00:39:55,233 --> 00:39:57,967 in commercial applications to find electrical 711 00:39:58,867 --> 00:39:59,967 and plumbing pipes underneath the ground. 712 00:40:01,467 --> 00:40:03,467 So I thought, if it could pick up those kind of things, 713 00:40:04,667 --> 00:40:06,000 maybe it could pick up a body. 714 00:40:11,767 --> 00:40:14,467 The real obstacle was my dad's basement. 715 00:40:14,967 --> 00:40:15,567 So full of stuff. 716 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,300 Dumbbells, barbells, weightlifting equipment. 717 00:40:20,767 --> 00:40:22,600 [metal scraping] 718 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,066 [Chris] All of that stuff had to come all the way out of his basement 719 00:40:26,734 --> 00:40:28,300 to be able to use the radar. 720 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:30,567 All my nieces and nephews were there, handing stuff 721 00:40:31,266 --> 00:40:31,967 from the basement to the yard. 722 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:33,367 [hinge creaking] 723 00:40:34,567 --> 00:40:35,667 It took the whole day. 724 00:40:36,834 --> 00:40:41,266 I was so happy because I knew now we're gonna get going. 725 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,100 [radar beeping] 726 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,166 The radar team is two men. 727 00:40:50,266 --> 00:40:51,367 Took them several hours. 728 00:40:53,367 --> 00:40:55,900 I was kind of expecting there to just be nothing. 729 00:40:56,700 --> 00:40:57,467 And it's like, OK, there's nothing 730 00:40:57,900 --> 00:40:58,700 under the floor. 731 00:40:59,533 --> 00:41:00,266 Like, now we gotta move on from this. 732 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,100 [radar bleeping softly] 733 00:41:09,367 --> 00:41:11,567 Eventually, they call us down to the basement. 734 00:41:13,967 --> 00:41:16,767 Walk down the stairs, you see big squares. 735 00:41:17,700 --> 00:41:19,166 It's more like a five-by-five foot square. 736 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,400 [Chris] There was a disturbance in the ground. 737 00:41:27,467 --> 00:41:29,400 The perfect size for there to be a body under there. 738 00:41:30,867 --> 00:41:32,700 Oh, my God, they have something. 739 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,767 There's an anomaly here, and this could all be true. 740 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,500 All that was left to do now was to do the digging. 741 00:41:41,166 --> 00:41:42,667 [sirens wailing in distance] 742 00:41:44,166 --> 00:41:46,667 -[sirens wailing] -[ambulance rumbling] 743 00:41:51,166 --> 00:41:53,166 [Mike] But then, um, I had a stroke. 744 00:41:56,266 --> 00:41:58,567 -[muffled dinging] -[labored breathing] 745 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,300 [Chris] I'm used to seeing my dad as being a strong guy. 746 00:42:10,767 --> 00:42:13,266 He was a little bit messed up. He couldn't really walk good. 747 00:42:17,567 --> 00:42:19,300 I realized I couldn't dig anymore, 748 00:42:20,133 --> 00:42:21,266 so I just felt that the job was done. 749 00:42:24,567 --> 00:42:26,967 I realized that I was probably never gonna find my dad. 750 00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:31,867 But then I... 751 00:42:32,967 --> 00:42:34,667 had a talk with the boys, and they said that, uh -- 752 00:42:35,667 --> 00:42:36,266 "Well, then don't worry about it, we'll do it." 753 00:42:40,367 --> 00:42:42,000 [Chris] You know, he's my dad, I love him. 754 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,500 And I would do anything for my dad. 755 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,266 So, of course, I'm gonna try to help him. 756 00:42:47,967 --> 00:42:48,667 I -- I told him this many times. 757 00:42:49,667 --> 00:42:51,667 He was my hero, growing up, in a lot of ways. 758 00:42:52,567 --> 00:42:53,667 So... 759 00:42:54,867 --> 00:42:55,967 [Mike] I have to tell you... 760 00:42:58,567 --> 00:42:59,800 I'm blessed... 761 00:43:00,867 --> 00:43:02,100 in so many ways. 762 00:43:03,700 --> 00:43:06,567 I think my stroke, uh, told my kids, like, you know, 763 00:43:07,233 --> 00:43:07,600 you're gonna lose your dad. 764 00:43:08,266 --> 00:43:09,100 You might wanna tell him now 765 00:43:09,900 --> 00:43:10,867 how important he was in your life. 766 00:43:12,066 --> 00:43:14,667 And I think that's what they did by stepping up 767 00:43:15,767 --> 00:43:18,800 and promised me to dig, promised me to find my dad, 768 00:43:19,533 --> 00:43:20,667 promised me I was gonna be OK, 769 00:43:21,533 --> 00:43:22,600 promised me they were gonna be there. 770 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,700 That's, like, a gift a lot of people don't get 771 00:43:26,700 --> 00:43:27,767 in their lifetime. I'm very grateful for that. 772 00:43:30,467 --> 00:43:32,000 [loud thud] 773 00:43:33,233 --> 00:43:34,967 [Chris] I just went down there with a hammer and I found like 774 00:43:35,667 --> 00:43:37,867 a little like chisel-type thing 775 00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:39,500 and I just started chipping it away. 776 00:43:39,934 --> 00:43:42,066 [metal clanking] 777 00:43:43,033 --> 00:43:44,266 Before you know it, they were digging, like, 778 00:43:45,066 --> 00:43:46,500 twice a week, three times a week, 779 00:43:47,500 --> 00:43:48,767 'till 10 o'clock at night. And I'm like, "Wow." 780 00:43:49,133 --> 00:43:49,867 [clanging] 781 00:43:50,767 --> 00:43:51,967 They were doing it. 782 00:43:52,467 --> 00:43:53,300 [shovel scraping] 783 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:55,667 [Chris] We didn't have, like, professional equipment. 784 00:43:56,567 --> 00:43:57,967 [shovel scraping] 785 00:43:58,900 --> 00:44:00,900 My brother did a lot of the heavy lifting. 786 00:44:01,433 --> 00:44:02,066 He's the muscle man. 787 00:44:03,166 --> 00:44:06,100 [Chris] Mike, he kinda takes a back seat a little bit 788 00:44:06,667 --> 00:44:07,100 with the physical stuff. 789 00:44:07,533 --> 00:44:08,300 [Chris speaking] 790 00:44:09,333 --> 00:44:09,767 [Michael] I feel like I'm gonna go down with you. 791 00:44:10,633 --> 00:44:12,166 I did help with the digging, of course. 792 00:44:13,033 --> 00:44:15,100 but my role was more the documentarian. 793 00:44:15,533 --> 00:44:17,000 [Chris speaking] 794 00:44:17,967 --> 00:44:18,667 [Michael] I thought if we do find something, 795 00:44:19,333 --> 00:44:20,367 the police need to see this. 796 00:44:21,567 --> 00:44:22,667 [indistinct] 797 00:44:26,467 --> 00:44:27,967 [Chris speaking] 798 00:44:28,834 --> 00:44:29,800 [Michael] We were digging for months. 799 00:44:30,834 --> 00:44:33,800 They said it was six feet down. We dug eight feet. 800 00:44:34,834 --> 00:44:36,767 We dug way bit more past, and there was nothing. 801 00:44:37,867 --> 00:44:40,967 [metal detector beeping] 802 00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:43,367 We found a wrench at one point. 803 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:45,000 but it was just scrap pieces of metal. 804 00:44:50,166 --> 00:44:53,166 But in the process of digging, there was a cinder block wall 805 00:44:53,967 --> 00:44:55,000 that got exposed right on the edge 806 00:44:55,834 --> 00:44:58,266 of the chalked-out area of the radar. 807 00:45:00,867 --> 00:45:04,100 My son came up and said, "There's a wall underground." 808 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,266 I'm like, "What's a wall doing under the ground?" 809 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:10,467 I said, "You need to go break that wall." 810 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,300 -[clanging] -[rock crumbling] 811 00:45:14,700 --> 00:45:17,667 [Chris] I just broke through sideways and I saw a cavity. 812 00:45:18,633 --> 00:45:22,000 And I said, "That's not right. It's a vault." 813 00:45:22,967 --> 00:45:24,266 [metal clanging] 814 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:25,367 [Michael indistinct] 815 00:45:26,467 --> 00:45:27,900 [Chris] But I don't wanna mess things up in the hole. 816 00:45:28,834 --> 00:45:29,967 So right away, I thought that was suspicious. 817 00:45:31,066 --> 00:45:33,000 And also the dirt was, like, it was like a wet dirt. 818 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:35,567 It was a lot different than, like, the sandy dirt outside. 819 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,100 I felt like I was onto something 820 00:45:40,900 --> 00:45:42,066 and I felt like I was very close. 821 00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:49,467 I couldn't sleep that whole night. 822 00:45:51,467 --> 00:45:53,000 [ducks quacking] 823 00:45:54,133 --> 00:45:56,100 [Chris] The next day, it was the day before Halloween. 824 00:45:56,667 --> 00:45:57,900 [sprinkler shuttering] 825 00:46:02,266 --> 00:46:03,867 [Chris] I was digging there by myself. 826 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,567 All of a sudden, I came across this like, very decomposed 827 00:46:12,033 --> 00:46:12,700 type of fabric. 828 00:46:13,667 --> 00:46:14,667 I started pulling it. 829 00:46:15,467 --> 00:46:17,467 It was just ripping like threads. 830 00:46:18,700 --> 00:46:21,867 It was just basically tearing apart as soon as I touched it. 831 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:24,467 The first thing I thought is, 832 00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:26,600 this has to be some sort of clothing. 833 00:46:30,266 --> 00:46:32,166 All of a sudden, I hit something with the shovel. 834 00:46:33,266 --> 00:46:34,567 Right where that fabric was, 835 00:46:35,367 --> 00:46:35,900 I was just hitting something hard. 836 00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:40,967 And I just stopped right there, 837 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,100 and I'm like, that's -- that's him. 838 00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:45,200 I found him. 839 00:46:47,767 --> 00:46:49,200 [Mike] I was sitting up here, and Chris comes up, you know? 840 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:50,800 You know how tough Chris is, right? 841 00:46:51,633 --> 00:46:53,567 He's as white as toothpaste, right? 842 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,800 I mean, I never seen him looked that freaked out. 843 00:46:57,900 --> 00:46:59,266 I told him, "You need to come down here right now." 844 00:47:00,166 --> 00:47:01,066 I said, "All right I'm coming down." 845 00:47:02,166 --> 00:47:03,467 [heavy breathing] 846 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,066 I get down there, and I'm standing 847 00:47:07,667 --> 00:47:08,467 at the hole, looking in. 848 00:47:09,233 --> 00:47:09,767 And I said, "I can't see nothing. 849 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:10,967 I got to get in the hole." 850 00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:13,500 And I got down on my knees and crawled into the tunnel. 851 00:47:14,500 --> 00:47:15,600 He's a healthcare professional, 852 00:47:16,166 --> 00:47:17,200 so he knows the body. 853 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,567 And he's like, "That's not a bone." 854 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,200 And I'm like, 855 00:47:22,166 --> 00:47:23,467 "Yeah, it is." I mean, what else could it be? 856 00:47:24,533 --> 00:47:25,166 "Chris, can you come down here again and just dig 857 00:47:25,834 --> 00:47:26,400 with your hands around it?" 858 00:47:27,467 --> 00:47:28,567 And he did that. 859 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:39,000 He just sat there for a minute. And he took, like, a deep sigh. 860 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:40,900 And then I realized I was looking at a pelvis. 861 00:47:42,100 --> 00:47:45,200 And he's like, "Boys, this is a bone." 862 00:47:46,100 --> 00:47:47,000 He's like, "This is, like, a human bone." 863 00:47:47,900 --> 00:47:48,767 I put my hand right on the dirty bones. 864 00:47:50,767 --> 00:47:52,500 "Dad, we got you. 865 00:47:53,233 --> 00:47:53,867 We got you, Dad. We found you." 866 00:47:59,066 --> 00:48:00,300 [Chris] And he just started crying. 867 00:48:02,367 --> 00:48:03,867 And he hugged us, he thanked us, 868 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,100 and he said he always believed that this was the case, 869 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:09,867 and finally he's proven true. 870 00:48:12,100 --> 00:48:13,200 [Mike] Yeah, it was crazy. 871 00:48:14,867 --> 00:48:16,000 [sighs] 872 00:48:19,367 --> 00:48:20,467 It was crazy. 873 00:48:21,567 --> 00:48:22,667 Felt good. 874 00:48:24,066 --> 00:48:25,767 Not only would that I found my dad, but I was... 875 00:48:27,867 --> 00:48:29,000 validated. 876 00:48:29,867 --> 00:48:31,500 Everybody said, "I was wrong," right? 877 00:48:33,567 --> 00:48:34,667 Payday. 878 00:48:36,667 --> 00:48:38,367 I win. 879 00:48:38,767 --> 00:48:39,500 I always do. 880 00:48:40,633 --> 00:48:41,567 ["What A Wonderful World" by Louis Armstrong playing] 881 00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:42,867 โ™ช I see trees of green โ™ช 882 00:48:44,900 --> 00:48:46,967 โ™ช Red roses tooโ™ช 883 00:48:47,734 --> 00:48:49,667 [Jean] I couldn't contain myself. 884 00:48:50,367 --> 00:48:53,767 I was hysterical, hysterical. 885 00:48:57,300 --> 00:48:58,667 [Steve, sighing] Uh... 886 00:48:59,700 --> 00:49:03,200 I thought it was a freaking miracle. 887 00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:05,667 It was just a miracle, you know, with all 888 00:49:06,767 --> 00:49:08,266 of the discussions, and the stories, and the rumors 889 00:49:09,033 --> 00:49:09,767 and the theories and all that stuff 890 00:49:10,467 --> 00:49:12,100 that we talked about for years. 891 00:49:13,100 --> 00:49:14,700 And here we are, looking at my father's remains. 892 00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:17,100 [partygoers chatting in background] 893 00:49:20,467 --> 00:49:23,100 [Richard] I was on a business trip, and I'm in Chicago. 894 00:49:24,100 --> 00:49:26,467 I got the call from Christopher. 895 00:49:26,867 --> 00:49:27,667 That was... 896 00:49:29,667 --> 00:49:31,767 probably the most emotional day of my life. 897 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,600 Your whole body turns numb. 898 00:49:36,767 --> 00:49:38,867 You start reflecting on your entire life, a little bit, 899 00:49:39,767 --> 00:49:40,667 not just who did it -- was it my father? 900 00:49:41,567 --> 00:49:42,100 Was it my mother, or anything like that, 901 00:49:42,867 --> 00:49:44,667 it was, "Oh, my god, my siblings. 902 00:49:45,667 --> 00:49:47,367 What did they just endure their entire lives?" 903 00:49:48,100 --> 00:49:49,100 I said, "I have to get to them. 904 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:50,567 I have to be there for them." 905 00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:39,367 I think it was 12 o'clock. We all decided that tomorrow 906 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:40,567 we're gonna call the cops. 907 00:50:41,333 --> 00:50:41,800 I'm not gonna call them tonight. 908 00:50:42,433 --> 00:50:42,867 There's no reason for it. 909 00:50:43,867 --> 00:50:44,567 He's been in the ground for 60-something years. 910 00:50:45,867 --> 00:50:48,767 And besides, we wanted everybody to be together. 911 00:50:49,834 --> 00:50:50,166 [Mike, in background] And then he uncovered the -- 912 00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:53,166 [people talking and chatting in background] 913 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,800 [Richard] I was home by 8, 8:30 the next morning 914 00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:06,266 from Chicago at Mike's house 915 00:51:07,300 --> 00:51:08,467 in the hole. 916 00:51:09,967 --> 00:51:11,066 We report the body. 917 00:51:12,467 --> 00:51:14,900 They don't respond. We report the body. 918 00:51:15,333 --> 00:51:16,000 They don't... 919 00:51:16,734 --> 00:51:19,100 Nobody responds. What's going on? 920 00:51:19,367 --> 00:51:20,100 Why? 921 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,266 [children yelling] 922 00:51:23,433 --> 00:51:26,900 The day we reported it was Halloween 2018, October 31st. 923 00:51:27,734 --> 00:51:28,500 They find a skeleton in the basement. 924 00:51:29,367 --> 00:51:30,500 Yeah, right. There's no way we're gonna 925 00:51:31,433 --> 00:51:32,200 waste our time, we're getting prank calls 926 00:51:32,900 --> 00:51:34,667 all over the place for bodies. 927 00:51:35,233 --> 00:51:36,367 So they didn't show up. 928 00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:38,467 And then finally, you get a couple of "Keystone Cops" 929 00:51:39,166 --> 00:51:40,166 with their coffees walking in. 930 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:41,233 "Hey, come on down to the basement." 931 00:51:42,433 --> 00:51:42,867 "Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll come in the basement." 932 00:51:43,533 --> 00:51:44,100 And then, like, their jaws, 933 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,667 they dropped their coffees. "Holy shit, we got one". 934 00:51:49,333 --> 00:51:49,900 They called their superior, 935 00:51:50,734 --> 00:51:52,000 their superior called his superior. 936 00:51:53,033 --> 00:51:53,767 Before you know it, the archaeologist was there, 937 00:51:54,433 --> 00:51:55,000 the forensics team was here. 938 00:51:55,433 --> 00:51:56,367 [sirens wailing] 939 00:51:58,767 --> 00:52:00,200 [officer] If you can just hang out for a second. 940 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:01,900 [indistinct] 941 00:52:04,900 --> 00:52:06,266 [Richard] It was the craziest scene 942 00:52:07,033 --> 00:52:08,000 I've ever seen in my entire life. 943 00:52:08,834 --> 00:52:10,000 [Chris] Every street was blocked off. 944 00:52:10,767 --> 00:52:11,467 There were hundreds of cop cars. 945 00:52:11,900 --> 00:52:12,667 It was crazy. 946 00:52:13,834 --> 00:52:15,266 I remember going outside. I look up, and then I'm like, 947 00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:16,767 "I can't believe this." I look down... 948 00:52:17,934 --> 00:52:22,700 there's a seven-foot T-rex, Mario, and Luigi 949 00:52:23,567 --> 00:52:24,700 in the crime scene. Trick or treating. 950 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,600 It was just, everything was so surreal. 951 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,800 They brought this giant crime lab, 952 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,967 and they had all these people in hazmat suits. 953 00:52:34,767 --> 00:52:35,166 [Mike] I wasn't allowed downstairs. 954 00:52:36,133 --> 00:52:37,767 I'm like, "Wait a minute, I didn't kill him. 955 00:52:38,767 --> 00:52:40,367 I was one and a half years old. I didn't do it." 956 00:52:41,433 --> 00:52:43,967 They don't know if this is a fresh death 957 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:46,000 or a 60 year-old-death at that point, 958 00:52:46,834 --> 00:52:47,367 so they're putting everything on it. 959 00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:49,266 [siren wailing] 960 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:52,667 [Chris] There was a lot of press. 961 00:52:53,467 --> 00:52:53,767 They were trying to get interviews. 962 00:52:54,467 --> 00:52:55,266 They were trying to talk to me. 963 00:52:56,700 --> 00:52:58,667 [reporter] The investigation is expected to continue through the night. 964 00:52:59,667 --> 00:53:00,100 [Mike] I don't know who called them, but boy, 965 00:53:00,734 --> 00:53:01,767 did they come like rats -- 966 00:53:02,734 --> 00:53:04,667 little roaches running with their microphones 967 00:53:05,300 --> 00:53:06,266 and their booms and shit. 968 00:53:06,834 --> 00:53:07,700 The press is everywhere. 969 00:53:08,667 --> 00:53:09,400 They're trying to find out who the bad guy is 970 00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:11,600 from every camera crew. Microphones everywhere. 971 00:53:12,967 --> 00:53:14,266 [reporter #2] ...with the family and is there tonight with more... 972 00:53:15,133 --> 00:53:16,166 A Long Island family may have literally 973 00:53:16,967 --> 00:53:17,600 unearthed the answer to a mystery. 974 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:19,800 There was no record of a death investigation at that time. 975 00:53:20,834 --> 00:53:22,100 Two daughters and two sons, the oldest was nine. 976 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:23,567 [reporter #3] A mystery is unfolding on Long Island. 977 00:53:24,333 --> 00:53:25,367 Looks to be apparently a murder. 978 00:53:26,500 --> 00:53:28,367 [Richard] Who did it, you know, was one of the questions 979 00:53:29,467 --> 00:53:30,467 you would hear all the time. "Who killed your father? 980 00:53:31,100 --> 00:53:31,667 Who put him in that hole?" 981 00:53:33,166 --> 00:53:35,700 They don't care who they hurt or what it's doing 982 00:53:36,533 --> 00:53:37,767 to the family inside, our siblings, 983 00:53:38,900 --> 00:53:40,367 the Carrolls, the Darresses. They just want the story. 984 00:53:41,300 --> 00:53:42,100 They want to find -- they want the villain. 985 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,467 And for the -- my siblings, the bad guy in this story 986 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:48,967 is Richard Darress. 987 00:53:49,633 --> 00:53:51,266 [suspenseful music playing] 988 00:54:00,300 --> 00:54:01,400 [Mike] When we found my dad, 989 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,266 you know, it was kind of like we answered one question, 990 00:54:06,033 --> 00:54:08,900 but we got 100,000 new questions. 991 00:54:13,100 --> 00:54:15,000 [Chris] They were able to determine the cause of death, 992 00:54:16,166 --> 00:54:18,100 which was blunt force trauma to the head. 993 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,000 [Mike] That was the biggest find. 994 00:54:24,166 --> 00:54:27,100 And then never heard from them again after that. 995 00:54:29,100 --> 00:54:30,900 [plastic crinkling] 996 00:54:31,934 --> 00:54:34,367 It seemed like the police decided it was so old 997 00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:36,300 that it's not really worth pursuing. 998 00:54:36,734 --> 00:54:38,800 [Steve speaking] 999 00:54:45,467 --> 00:54:47,100 ...in 1963. 1000 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,800 So, Mike, can you take them off the list? 1001 00:54:50,567 --> 00:54:51,767 [Jean] Richie was always foremost 1002 00:54:53,867 --> 00:54:55,400 on my mind. 1003 00:54:56,333 --> 00:54:58,600 You know, here's my father being murdered, 1004 00:54:59,367 --> 00:55:01,066 and his father possibly being... 1005 00:55:03,066 --> 00:55:04,166 you know, the murderer. 1006 00:55:07,667 --> 00:55:11,467 [Richard] I've heard over and over again from my siblings that, 1007 00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,200 "We know your father did this." 1008 00:55:15,367 --> 00:55:18,467 But the fact that he was very poor to them, all of them, 1009 00:55:19,533 --> 00:55:22,066 it's a very low hanging fruit, very easy target to, 1010 00:55:22,867 --> 00:55:24,100 you know, put this murder on him. 1011 00:55:27,066 --> 00:55:29,000 There's been a lot of protecting of Richie 1012 00:55:29,467 --> 00:55:30,367 for a long time. 1013 00:55:31,533 --> 00:55:34,266 But when we look at the basement and we have 1014 00:55:35,333 --> 00:55:37,066 any kind of theory about, you know, what happened, 1015 00:55:37,700 --> 00:55:39,467 it all points to Darress. 1016 00:55:40,033 --> 00:55:41,467 [ominous music playing] 1017 00:55:54,567 --> 00:55:58,266 [Steve] There was a rectangular opening in the basement floor 1018 00:55:58,900 --> 00:55:59,467 where the water pump was. 1019 00:56:00,500 --> 00:56:01,266 And every house back then had a water pump, 1020 00:56:02,333 --> 00:56:05,000 we didn't have city water. And that's where he was. 1021 00:56:05,633 --> 00:56:06,166 That's where we found him. 1022 00:56:07,266 --> 00:56:08,700 -[Chris] This is the end of like, soil. -[Steve] Yeah. 1023 00:56:09,467 --> 00:56:10,567 [Steve] Darress was in the house. 1024 00:56:11,133 --> 00:56:12,367 He was intimate with... 1025 00:56:13,300 --> 00:56:14,367 pouring cement. 1026 00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:16,900 The opening to the floor was there already. 1027 00:56:18,100 --> 00:56:19,367 The dirt was there. 1028 00:56:20,266 --> 00:56:22,367 The concrete, the mixer was right there. 1029 00:56:23,266 --> 00:56:25,567 It was so easy. Everything points to him. 1030 00:56:28,667 --> 00:56:30,300 [Richard] We may never find out what happened, 1031 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:31,967 if he was murdered, whatever, 1032 00:56:32,734 --> 00:56:33,266 this could have been an accident. 1033 00:56:34,467 --> 00:56:37,166 Like, did he trip in the hole, hit his head on the cement, 1034 00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:38,367 and now he's... 1035 00:56:39,367 --> 00:56:41,667 You know, I'm just... 1036 00:56:42,333 --> 00:56:42,800 There's other possibilities. 1037 00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:44,467 But when I talk to my siblings, 1038 00:56:45,433 --> 00:56:46,266 we have to look at all the different stories. 1039 00:56:47,333 --> 00:56:48,467 [reporter]...remove the remains and are now trying 1040 00:56:49,166 --> 00:56:49,867 to determine the cause of death. 1041 00:56:51,133 --> 00:56:52,100 [reporter #2] Steven Carroll was just five when his dad, George, 1042 00:56:52,667 --> 00:56:53,300 went missing in 1961. 1043 00:56:54,367 --> 00:56:54,767 [reporter #3] No paper trail as to what happened... 1044 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:56,667 [Jean] I spoke to Richie and I said, 1045 00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,266 "I know this is very sensitive and very hard for you." 1046 00:57:01,166 --> 00:57:02,767 -[cameras clicking] -[reporters talking] 1047 00:57:03,934 --> 00:57:05,767 [Richard] It's a tough spot for my siblings. 1048 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,867 They want to say who did it or who they believe that did it, 1049 00:57:10,834 --> 00:57:12,500 but they don't wanna hurt me and my family. 1050 00:57:13,700 --> 00:57:15,200 [reporter #4] The other half of the mystery, who buried him 1051 00:57:15,767 --> 00:57:16,967 in the family basement? 1052 00:57:18,066 --> 00:57:19,800 The brothers won't publicly speculate, but they say 1053 00:57:20,834 --> 00:57:23,567 they have theories and hint at domestic discord. 1054 00:57:24,567 --> 00:57:26,467 There was a lot of talk about trying not to use 1055 00:57:26,967 --> 00:57:27,500 the Darress name. 1056 00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:29,467 -[cameras clicking] -[reporters talking] 1057 00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:30,800 [Richard] I think at one point they said, 1058 00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:32,000 "We're not gonna talk to the media," 1059 00:57:32,834 --> 00:57:34,000 but how do you not talk to the media? 1060 00:57:34,967 --> 00:57:36,066 You know, when they're lined up out the door. 1061 00:57:37,066 --> 00:57:38,567 They're not going away. You gotta say something. 1062 00:57:39,700 --> 00:57:41,300 [reporter #5] You have no idea who may have done this? 1063 00:57:42,367 --> 00:57:43,867 I do. 1064 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:46,367 [reporter #5] Mike Carroll wouldn't elaborate on that. 1065 00:57:47,500 --> 00:57:49,667 He would only say that the last person who likely knew 1066 00:57:50,767 --> 00:57:53,400 what happened to his father died over three months ago. 1067 00:57:54,734 --> 00:57:57,500 [Richard] When Mike started digging, my brother Steve, I believe, 1068 00:57:58,633 --> 00:58:00,266 came to me and said, "I want to go talk to your father." 1069 00:58:01,233 --> 00:58:02,800 And I'm like, "Maybe that's not a bad idea." 1070 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:04,400 So then we made arrangements to go. 1071 00:58:05,300 --> 00:58:06,200 We were gonna leave on a Monday morning 1072 00:58:07,233 --> 00:58:08,100 and fly out there and then come right back home. 1073 00:58:09,467 --> 00:58:11,600 I called him Sunday night, he had passed away. 1074 00:58:14,066 --> 00:58:15,166 We lost the shot. 1075 00:58:18,700 --> 00:58:21,767 Anybody that would have had this intimate secret, 1076 00:58:22,834 --> 00:58:24,967 if there was one to be told, they've all passed on. 1077 00:58:27,500 --> 00:58:30,000 But what if there's another story there? 1078 00:58:30,467 --> 00:58:32,000 [tape rewinding] 1079 00:58:34,667 --> 00:58:36,467 [Richard] I've heard stories about George Carroll. 1080 00:58:37,333 --> 00:58:38,667 He wasn't, you know, the best husband. 1081 00:58:42,100 --> 00:58:43,567 I've heard the term "heavy hands." 1082 00:58:45,100 --> 00:58:48,100 There were comments by my mother early on 1083 00:58:48,767 --> 00:58:50,100 that my father was abusive. 1084 00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:56,000 I want to believe that it was post-traumatic stress 1085 00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,467 from Korea. 1086 00:58:59,700 --> 00:59:00,500 [Mike] When he came back from Korea, he was rough with her. 1087 00:59:02,967 --> 00:59:05,767 [Richard] I know my mother had scars and stuff like that. 1088 00:59:10,367 --> 00:59:13,467 Just recently, Steve said he did reach out 1089 00:59:14,233 --> 00:59:15,767 to my father's brother, my uncle. 1090 00:59:18,500 --> 00:59:19,800 I said, "What do you think happened?" 1091 00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:25,100 And he said, word for word, "I have no doubt 1092 00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:27,867 "that my brother was involved, 1093 00:59:28,967 --> 00:59:30,367 but I do believe that he was defending your mother." 1094 00:59:31,467 --> 00:59:34,667 [tense music playing] 1095 00:59:35,467 --> 00:59:36,500 [Richard] So paint this picture -- 1096 00:59:37,700 --> 00:59:42,467 Mom is getting physically abused to no end 1097 00:59:43,066 --> 00:59:44,100 by your father, George. 1098 00:59:44,934 --> 00:59:46,500 And my father's working on the house. 1099 00:59:47,700 --> 00:59:50,166 And he walks into the room, and she is getting beaten up. 1100 00:59:51,367 --> 00:59:54,467 And my father has to get involved to save Mom. 1101 00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,967 So maybe my father becomes my mother's hero 1102 01:00:01,100 --> 01:00:03,400 and saves her from getting beaten up by George Carroll. 1103 01:00:04,133 --> 01:00:05,266 Is that possible? Sure it is. 1104 01:00:06,166 --> 01:00:07,467 Is it likely? Maybe. 1105 01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:13,867 [Jean] My mother was a good woman. 1106 01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,667 I'm not gonna try to make more out of it. 1107 01:00:18,900 --> 01:00:22,467 And on the other hand, I know how and what kind of evil man 1108 01:00:22,900 --> 01:00:23,667 Mr. Darress was. 1109 01:00:26,166 --> 01:00:29,000 To be honest with you, I never really felt my mother 1110 01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:30,266 knew anything about it. 1111 01:00:31,433 --> 01:00:33,800 I thought it was all him. I thought it was Mr. Darress. 1112 01:00:36,500 --> 01:00:39,166 [Richard] Human nature is, you know, 1113 01:00:39,934 --> 01:00:40,467 you're not gonna point it at Mom. 1114 01:00:41,567 --> 01:00:43,266 You're gonna point it at the bad guy. 1115 01:00:45,100 --> 01:00:47,967 But how does my mother not know about this? 1116 01:00:49,033 --> 01:00:50,900 With everything that we know today, her not filing 1117 01:00:51,900 --> 01:00:54,667 a missing person report, her not showing her kids 1118 01:00:55,834 --> 01:00:57,600 to the grandparents and keeping them apart, and the Yagels 1119 01:00:58,467 --> 01:00:59,767 and everybody involved, she had to know. 1120 01:01:02,867 --> 01:01:05,767 But if she happened to be involved with any of this. 1121 01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,100 She had a reason. 1122 01:01:15,667 --> 01:01:17,166 [Chris] I think the truth matters. 1123 01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:19,367 [grill sizzling] 1124 01:01:20,467 --> 01:01:22,867 [Chris] I'm not content with just, OK, we found him, 1125 01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:25,400 but now we don't know 100% what happened. 1126 01:01:25,834 --> 01:01:26,667 Just move on. 1127 01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:37,166 So I kind of felt the need to start looking for myself 1128 01:01:38,333 --> 01:01:39,667 and finding certain things the police might have missed. 1129 01:01:43,900 --> 01:01:45,834 Around that time, 1130 01:01:46,700 --> 01:01:47,767 my aunt Pat was diagnosed with cancer. 1131 01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,900 At that point, she really was, kind of, 1132 01:01:53,500 --> 01:01:54,667 estranged to the family. 1133 01:01:56,300 --> 01:01:58,767 But she decided she wanted to tell her story, 1134 01:01:59,500 --> 01:02:01,066 and she wanted to tell it to me. 1135 01:02:03,667 --> 01:02:06,834 [Jean] My sister was very, very complicated girl. 1136 01:02:10,567 --> 01:02:12,834 She was more of a wild child. 1137 01:02:16,300 --> 01:02:19,400 [Steve] Pat just made decisions early on in life 1138 01:02:20,500 --> 01:02:22,166 that were just different than what we would've done. 1139 01:02:25,266 --> 01:02:27,000 [Mike] She's considered the black sheep. 1140 01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:28,266 She was on her own path. 1141 01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,467 Pat ran away when she was 15. She literally ran away. 1142 01:02:33,867 --> 01:02:36,400 And the guy she was staying with was 25. 1143 01:02:37,367 --> 01:02:38,767 So you got a lot going on here that's wrong. 1144 01:02:41,567 --> 01:02:42,867 She hurt Mom really bad, 1145 01:02:43,834 --> 01:02:45,000 and I don't like that. 1146 01:02:50,300 --> 01:02:52,066 But then I learned something down the road. 1147 01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:00,100 [Chris] My aunt Pat confided in me about a lot of the abuse 1148 01:03:00,734 --> 01:03:02,367 that she got from Richard. 1149 01:03:03,066 --> 01:03:04,867 How he molested and raped her, 1150 01:03:05,900 --> 01:03:08,300 and was able to get away with it. 1151 01:03:10,667 --> 01:03:12,166 Nobody would listen to her. 1152 01:03:13,266 --> 01:03:15,867 Even her mom refused to acknowledge it. 1153 01:03:19,266 --> 01:03:23,467 Darress was able to manipulate the situation to make Pat seem 1154 01:03:24,500 --> 01:03:25,767 like she was just a troubled kid making up lies. 1155 01:03:27,567 --> 01:03:30,266 And because Pat felt so abandoned, 1156 01:03:31,066 --> 01:03:31,567 and that she wouldn't be believed, 1157 01:03:32,133 --> 01:03:32,900 she ran away for years. 1158 01:03:35,300 --> 01:03:37,266 I never believed my sister's story. 1159 01:03:39,367 --> 01:03:40,567 How do I put that? 1160 01:03:45,734 --> 01:03:47,600 OK, I'm having a tough time with that one. 1161 01:03:48,967 --> 01:03:50,734 For a moment, I have to think. 1162 01:03:52,734 --> 01:03:53,900 Can we take a two-minute break? 1163 01:03:55,367 --> 01:03:59,900 A lot of what my mother said to me about her made me believe 1164 01:04:00,633 --> 01:04:02,266 that she wasn't believable. 1165 01:04:03,300 --> 01:04:05,166 Pat, you know, was a bit, I think she stretched 1166 01:04:05,867 --> 01:04:07,000 the truth about a lot of things. 1167 01:04:08,900 --> 01:04:12,066 [Jean] You know, when I look back, I just felt that she knew 1168 01:04:13,100 --> 01:04:14,834 it was happening to me, and it was her way out. 1169 01:04:16,100 --> 01:04:18,367 [ticking] 1170 01:04:19,433 --> 01:04:21,900 The abuse started when I was about eight years old. 1171 01:04:24,834 --> 01:04:28,000 It was just all wrong. It felt all wrong. 1172 01:04:30,667 --> 01:04:33,166 All you know is that something is being done 1173 01:04:34,066 --> 01:04:36,567 that you don't like. and you tend to just 1174 01:04:37,734 --> 01:04:41,767 take yourself somewhere else and think of something else 1175 01:04:42,333 --> 01:04:42,867 just to get through it. 1176 01:04:46,066 --> 01:04:47,166 He just... 1177 01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:50,667 would just touch me inappropriately. 1178 01:04:50,967 --> 01:04:51,834 And... 1179 01:04:52,867 --> 01:04:55,166 it was terrible. Absolutely terrible. 1180 01:04:56,367 --> 01:04:57,767 I think I'll just leave it at that. 1181 01:05:03,667 --> 01:05:05,367 I kept that a secret for a long time. 1182 01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,734 It was just the times then. 1183 01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:17,467 [Darress] The best thing you can do, no matter what happens, 1184 01:05:18,533 --> 01:05:22,667 at the end of the evening, every day of every year 1185 01:05:23,100 --> 01:05:24,667 of your life, 1186 01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,300 say "I love you," no matter what happens. 1187 01:05:29,300 --> 01:05:31,367 I found out all of this about the abuse to Mike, 1188 01:05:32,433 --> 01:05:35,300 Jean, the stories I heard about Pat, all came out 1189 01:05:35,834 --> 01:05:36,900 after I got married. 1190 01:05:40,967 --> 01:05:42,200 Do you know what? 1191 01:05:43,066 --> 01:05:44,166 She was more my family than my father. 1192 01:05:44,734 --> 01:05:45,367 She was there every day. 1193 01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,367 If I knew what I knew today, 1194 01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:50,867 he wouldn't have been at my wedding. 1195 01:05:51,734 --> 01:05:52,567 I wouldn't have put them through that. 1196 01:05:53,767 --> 01:05:55,000 He wouldn't have been invited. 1197 01:05:55,533 --> 01:05:57,266 [solemn piano notes] 1198 01:06:13,967 --> 01:06:15,567 [Mike] This is all what's left of my sister. 1199 01:06:16,900 --> 01:06:19,166 I'm not too sure what to think of that. 1200 01:06:20,033 --> 01:06:21,600 Her daughter left all this stuff here, 1201 01:06:22,367 --> 01:06:23,567 and she never came back for it. 1202 01:06:26,467 --> 01:06:27,967 [Mike] I don't think these are worth anything. 1203 01:06:33,367 --> 01:06:35,567 I believe it 110%. 1204 01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:39,100 And I -- 1205 01:06:40,100 --> 01:06:41,900 And I won't even come down a notch on that one. 1206 01:06:46,166 --> 01:06:49,767 Because what 15-year-old runs away from a safe place? 1207 01:06:52,166 --> 01:06:54,767 [wasp buzzing] 1208 01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:58,467 [Mike] This is embarrassing, a little bit. 1209 01:06:59,633 --> 01:07:02,166 But as a five-year-old kid, like, I'm scared every day. 1210 01:07:07,467 --> 01:07:10,000 I remember being pretty young, and... 1211 01:07:10,967 --> 01:07:13,066 remember getting the strap, and I'm saying, 1212 01:07:13,633 --> 01:07:14,400 you know, "That hurts." 1213 01:07:17,567 --> 01:07:18,867 We had to be totally naked. 1214 01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:22,567 I'm like, "Why? It hurts enough." 1215 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,567 I came up with a technique that if I went to sleep, 1216 01:07:30,967 --> 01:07:32,200 I would rock 1217 01:07:33,367 --> 01:07:35,967 like an idiot so violently that Darress couldn't grab me 1218 01:07:36,734 --> 01:07:38,200 and strangle me. I'd have a chance. 1219 01:07:39,734 --> 01:07:41,000 I love my mother, 1220 01:07:42,066 --> 01:07:44,266 but for her to allow that, 1221 01:07:45,667 --> 01:07:47,266 there's a big giant question mark. 1222 01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,567 [Jean] My mother was controlled by him the whole time. 1223 01:07:57,734 --> 01:07:59,367 I don't know what my mother knew, 1224 01:08:00,300 --> 01:08:03,867 but when my mother was dying of cancer, 1225 01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,066 she actually approached me before she died. 1226 01:08:08,500 --> 01:08:10,200 And she asked me, 1227 01:08:13,066 --> 01:08:14,667 "Was I in love with him?" 1228 01:08:15,767 --> 01:08:17,367 My mother actually asked me that, 1229 01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:19,066 if I was in love with him. 1230 01:08:19,834 --> 01:08:20,734 And I said, "You know what, Mom? 1231 01:08:23,166 --> 01:08:24,467 I couldn't stand the man." 1232 01:08:25,834 --> 01:08:28,066 [muffled voices from TV] 1233 01:08:31,767 --> 01:08:35,734 [Jean] This is how great this man was a manipulator. 1234 01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:42,000 He would gaslight her and change the story around 1235 01:08:42,900 --> 01:08:45,166 to make me look like I was the bad person. 1236 01:08:47,900 --> 01:08:51,667 [Mike] My mom can't say that she didn't know something. 1237 01:08:52,867 --> 01:08:54,000 There must have been things like, you know, him waking up 1238 01:08:55,100 --> 01:08:56,166 at 2 o'clock in the morning and sneaking downstairs 1239 01:08:56,867 --> 01:08:57,367 or sneaking into the bedrooms. 1240 01:09:00,467 --> 01:09:02,066 I just don't think she knew how to handle it. 1241 01:09:03,567 --> 01:09:06,367 Which leaves me questioning, like, what the heck? 1242 01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:11,667 [Jean] I forgive my mom. 1243 01:09:16,100 --> 01:09:18,567 I understand that she probably -- she went through... 1244 01:09:19,266 --> 01:09:19,767 She probably went through hell. 1245 01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:23,567 She deserved, really, a whole lot more, 1246 01:09:26,166 --> 01:09:27,467 because she was a good person. 1247 01:09:30,266 --> 01:09:32,867 [Mike] My mom and Jean were super close, 1248 01:09:33,967 --> 01:09:36,300 regardless of the stuff that went on in this house. 1249 01:09:37,266 --> 01:09:38,567 Jean never gave up on my mom, 1250 01:09:39,333 --> 01:09:41,100 and my mom never gave up on Jean. 1251 01:09:41,967 --> 01:09:43,900 I understand that it was not my fault. 1252 01:09:44,667 --> 01:09:47,867 I know that he was a sick person. 1253 01:09:48,433 --> 01:09:49,834 I've learned that now. 1254 01:09:50,834 --> 01:09:51,867 After all of these years, I learned that now. 1255 01:09:55,467 --> 01:09:58,767 It turned out that there was a lot of families 1256 01:09:59,333 --> 01:10:00,000 that had that secret. 1257 01:10:01,266 --> 01:10:02,667 I was not the only one. 1258 01:10:04,467 --> 01:10:07,834 Mr. Darress was a predator everywhere he went. 1259 01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,900 [sinister music playing] 1260 01:10:25,667 --> 01:10:27,967 [Chris] As I started doing more research, 1261 01:10:29,467 --> 01:10:32,467 I found Richard Darress had a pattern of abuse. 1262 01:10:33,934 --> 01:10:36,934 He went to a new family. He did the same thing there. 1263 01:10:37,834 --> 01:10:39,967 He was sexually harassing the daughter. 1264 01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:43,967 So it shows what kind of person he is, and that he repeatedly 1265 01:10:44,533 --> 01:10:45,100 showed this behavior. 1266 01:10:47,166 --> 01:10:49,300 He's a predator. That's the bottom line. 1267 01:10:50,266 --> 01:10:52,567 Don't be fooled by the words and the bullshit 1268 01:10:53,500 --> 01:10:55,734 that he's gonna sell you. He's a predator, 1269 01:10:56,433 --> 01:10:57,834 child molester. That we know. 1270 01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:01,834 [Steve] I had a conversation with my cousin. 1271 01:11:02,900 --> 01:11:06,867 She told me, my aunt, told my father that Darress 1272 01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:08,567 was exposing himself 1273 01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:10,734 at the house. 1274 01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,266 He was exposing himself to the girls. 1275 01:11:15,266 --> 01:11:18,166 So this is when he had just moved in, I guess. 1276 01:11:19,867 --> 01:11:25,000 And I wonder, to this day, if that was the day 1277 01:11:25,533 --> 01:11:26,667 that my father died. 1278 01:11:27,767 --> 01:11:30,367 Was that the day that he went home and he confronted 1279 01:11:31,467 --> 01:11:33,867 either Darress or my mother, and then Darress got up 1280 01:11:34,834 --> 01:11:35,767 behind him and hit him with the pipe wrench? 1281 01:11:40,667 --> 01:11:42,967 [Mike] I think he stood up to him, told him to get out. 1282 01:11:44,834 --> 01:11:46,967 But the thing is, let's assume it's true that, 1283 01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:48,367 you know, that did happen. 1284 01:11:50,934 --> 01:11:53,467 Then my mom is the question mark. 1285 01:11:56,767 --> 01:12:00,567 She knew that this guy was in my house, our house, 1286 01:12:01,367 --> 01:12:02,667 and he was unbalanced and unsafe. 1287 01:12:03,867 --> 01:12:06,266 And my question is, why would you allow him to stay here? 1288 01:12:10,266 --> 01:12:13,767 As a man, as a father, 1289 01:12:14,934 --> 01:12:19,500 I don't understand how somebody could just not acknowledge 1290 01:12:20,367 --> 01:12:22,266 the crimes against your kids like that. 1291 01:12:22,834 --> 01:12:23,467 That leaves me hanging. 1292 01:12:27,166 --> 01:12:29,100 [Chris] I've kind of been thinking about how 1293 01:12:30,300 --> 01:12:33,166 all the abuse that she let happen to her kids 1294 01:12:34,100 --> 01:12:36,266 that no mother could ever allow 1295 01:12:37,066 --> 01:12:38,166 kind of plays a role in the story. 1296 01:12:39,266 --> 01:12:42,667 And I thought maybe it's possible that 1297 01:12:43,834 --> 01:12:46,166 there was some sort of blackmail type of situation where 1298 01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:49,734 Darress and my grandma were having an affair, 1299 01:12:51,166 --> 01:12:54,567 and he said, "Don't worry, I'll take care of this. 1300 01:12:55,333 --> 01:12:55,834 You won't have to know anything." 1301 01:12:56,734 --> 01:12:57,867 And maybe... 1302 01:12:59,667 --> 01:13:03,166 Darress buried him, and from that day forward, 1303 01:13:04,233 --> 01:13:06,200 he has that over her, and maybe she was too scared 1304 01:13:07,367 --> 01:13:10,266 to say anything about the abuse because he would just say 1305 01:13:10,967 --> 01:13:13,066 that she murdered my grandpa. 1306 01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:19,867 If my mother did tell the authorities about 1307 01:13:20,967 --> 01:13:22,367 the situation between Jean and my father, it's gonna 1308 01:13:23,500 --> 01:13:25,467 open up the can of worms of the death of George Carroll, 1309 01:13:26,767 --> 01:13:30,367 and then they lose now both parents and their home 1310 01:13:31,300 --> 01:13:32,467 and their whole livelihood. 1311 01:13:33,767 --> 01:13:35,867 It's a big bind. It's a big bind to be in. 1312 01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:39,166 I'm not happy the way I'm thinking about this, 1313 01:13:39,734 --> 01:13:40,467 to be honest with you. 1314 01:13:42,367 --> 01:13:46,867 I believe my mother just was making sure that she took care 1315 01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:49,266 of her children, and that was the number one priority 1316 01:13:49,700 --> 01:13:50,600 to my mother. 1317 01:13:54,500 --> 01:13:56,200 No. Mom did not know 1318 01:13:56,767 --> 01:13:57,367 he was under the house. 1319 01:13:59,367 --> 01:14:01,767 There's nothing you can tell me 1320 01:14:02,834 --> 01:14:06,100 that indicates my mother was a willing participant 1321 01:14:06,667 --> 01:14:07,367 in the murder of my dad. 1322 01:14:08,867 --> 01:14:11,266 Mom was afraid. She was scared. 1323 01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:13,367 She was abused, just like everybody else. 1324 01:14:14,333 --> 01:14:15,166 [Dorothy] I'm the queen of the whole place. 1325 01:14:16,734 --> 01:14:19,400 [Steve] I have often thought, "Why, if my mother knew, 1326 01:14:20,734 --> 01:14:25,166 why didn't she ultimately tell us when she was sick?" 1327 01:14:27,467 --> 01:14:29,567 But now I think about it, I go, "I don't think I would have 1328 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:31,200 told my kids." 1329 01:14:31,734 --> 01:14:32,567 I think if my mother 1330 01:14:33,667 --> 01:14:35,600 contemplated... 1331 01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:38,467 telling us what actually happened, 1332 01:14:39,367 --> 01:14:40,867 it would tarnish the way we thought of her. 1333 01:14:41,867 --> 01:14:43,367 And we thought very highly of her. 1334 01:14:45,467 --> 01:14:46,567 We loved her. 1335 01:14:53,100 --> 01:14:56,166 I'm gonna tell you one very interesting 1336 01:14:56,734 --> 01:14:57,734 moment of my wedding. 1337 01:15:01,667 --> 01:15:04,266 My mother and my father were on the dance floor. 1338 01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:07,567 My mother was looking up at my father, nodding her head, 1339 01:15:08,467 --> 01:15:09,767 and my father was just crying hysterical. 1340 01:15:11,667 --> 01:15:12,867 What were they saying? 1341 01:15:18,734 --> 01:15:21,100 I get emotional because they're just talking about me, 1342 01:15:21,633 --> 01:15:23,100 how I've I grew up. 1343 01:15:23,667 --> 01:15:25,066 "We raised a good kid." 1344 01:15:25,834 --> 01:15:27,066 You know, good life, good family, 1345 01:15:27,867 --> 01:15:28,667 or were they talking about, "Hey, 1346 01:15:29,734 --> 01:15:32,266 we potentially got away with murder at this point." 1347 01:15:38,100 --> 01:15:39,867 You got it, buddy. You ready? 1348 01:15:40,533 --> 01:15:41,100 You ready? [Richard grunts] 1349 01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:43,166 [excited panting and whining] 1350 01:15:44,767 --> 01:15:45,867 Let's go. 1351 01:15:46,767 --> 01:15:47,867 Let's go. 1352 01:15:48,300 --> 01:15:49,600 The truth is, 1353 01:15:50,166 --> 01:15:51,100 we're never gonna know. 1354 01:15:51,533 --> 01:15:52,667 [engine roars] 1355 01:15:56,734 --> 01:15:59,767 [Mike] You know, Richie, he volunteered to come 1356 01:16:00,734 --> 01:16:02,367 and help me put the dirt back in the hole. 1357 01:16:03,767 --> 01:16:07,000 I'm so glad it was him, because it needed to be him. 1358 01:16:08,100 --> 01:16:09,767 That's how I felt. 1359 01:16:10,367 --> 01:16:11,000 And we did it together. 1360 01:16:12,500 --> 01:16:13,767 I do feel... 1361 01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:16,100 that... 1362 01:16:17,066 --> 01:16:18,667 as incomplete as this is..., 1363 01:16:20,867 --> 01:16:23,367 it's the closest I've ever been to... 1364 01:16:25,367 --> 01:16:27,000 following through with love. 1365 01:16:29,867 --> 01:16:31,667 The truth is, 1366 01:16:32,033 --> 01:16:33,100 [sniffles] 1367 01:16:34,300 --> 01:16:35,667 this whole thing is about loving something that we didn't 1368 01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:39,567 know was there. We have faith in it, though. 1369 01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:43,100 And that's pretty damn cool, you know? 1370 01:16:43,767 --> 01:16:44,266 Like, you have faith in it. 1371 01:16:46,734 --> 01:16:48,400 My mission was to find my dad. 1372 01:16:49,467 --> 01:16:50,934 And that mission is completed. 1373 01:16:57,400 --> 01:16:59,767 I have my dad with me at all times. 1374 01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:04,667 I think of him every day. I talk to him every day. 1375 01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:09,166 It just feels great to have him with me at all times. 1376 01:17:10,867 --> 01:17:13,767 I'm sorry he's in a wonton soup container. 1377 01:17:15,166 --> 01:17:16,500 I hope he liked wonton. 1378 01:17:16,867 --> 01:17:18,500 [chuckles] 1379 01:17:27,467 --> 01:17:28,567 [Steve] Well, there wasn't much 1380 01:17:30,033 --> 01:17:34,500 that I ever had that my father actually owned or gave to me. 1381 01:17:37,667 --> 01:17:41,467 I guess the shoes just kind of give me some connection. 1382 01:17:42,867 --> 01:17:44,266 This is all I have. 1383 01:17:46,467 --> 01:17:48,667 But the thought of him wearing these shoes when he was 1384 01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:50,166 in that hole, and they were in the ground 1385 01:17:50,734 --> 01:17:52,934 for 55 years, it's just, 1386 01:17:53,867 --> 01:17:55,266 it's kinda hard to wrap my brain around it. 1387 01:17:59,567 --> 01:18:01,834 -[Jean] I love that smell. -[medium] Thank you. 1388 01:18:02,133 --> 01:18:02,934 Hold on. 1389 01:18:04,300 --> 01:18:06,100 [Jean] Feels like a whole new beginning when you spray 1390 01:18:07,066 --> 01:18:07,667 that, right? -[medium] That's what it's for. 1391 01:18:08,633 --> 01:18:09,500 -Exactly -- It clears the air. -[Jean] Yeah. 1392 01:18:11,467 --> 01:18:15,066 [medium] So we have no negative vibes when I start channeling. 1393 01:18:16,300 --> 01:18:17,400 So. 1394 01:18:19,867 --> 01:18:20,967 My little... 1395 01:18:23,767 --> 01:18:24,967 space. 1396 01:18:27,967 --> 01:18:31,166 Actually, both your mother and father are coming in. 1397 01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:35,567 To answer a question that's been on your mind, 1398 01:18:36,333 --> 01:18:38,066 he said, "Nobody else was there." 1399 01:18:39,100 --> 01:18:40,934 It was just him and his friend when it happened. 1400 01:18:42,266 --> 01:18:43,266 Do you understand what I'm saying? 1401 01:18:43,767 --> 01:18:44,667 [Jean] Yes, I do. 1402 01:18:45,834 --> 01:18:47,100 [medium] Your mother just ran over and gave you a big hug 1403 01:18:47,667 --> 01:18:48,867 and a kiss, and she... 1404 01:18:51,166 --> 01:18:53,867 She's literally apologizing to you for the... 1405 01:18:55,166 --> 01:18:56,667 more than abuse. 1406 01:18:57,433 --> 01:18:58,100 -Do you understand that? -Mm-hmm. 1407 01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:03,367 [medium] She didn't, she went like this, I didn't see. 1408 01:19:04,133 --> 01:19:06,567 I didn't see. But she does know. 1409 01:19:07,133 --> 01:19:07,834 And she does see now. 1410 01:19:09,367 --> 01:19:10,667 She's very emotional. 1411 01:19:13,300 --> 01:19:15,600 She said, "Can you please tell her I love her?" 1412 01:19:17,667 --> 01:19:20,300 You could tell her that. Well, I could tell her. 1413 01:19:21,533 --> 01:19:22,667 -[medium] Yeah, she's right here. -That I still love her. 1414 01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:24,734 I always did. No matter what. 1415 01:19:32,767 --> 01:19:36,600 I really wish that when my mom was dying 1416 01:19:37,266 --> 01:19:39,100 that she told me the truth. 1417 01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:41,467 I wish, but that didn't happen. 1418 01:19:43,367 --> 01:19:44,767 Come on, let's do it. 1419 01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:47,000 [Michael] Listen, buster, I make the rules here. 1420 01:19:47,367 --> 01:19:48,000 [Mike] OK. 1421 01:19:48,667 --> 01:19:49,767 You know, it's a conundrum. 1422 01:19:50,767 --> 01:19:52,266 I don't have answers, but ignorance is bliss. 1423 01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:57,000 I guess that's what you do. You don't blame your mom. 1424 01:19:59,066 --> 01:20:00,266 I don't wanna blame my mom. 1425 01:20:07,967 --> 01:20:09,000 [quiet piano notes] 1426 01:20:09,667 --> 01:20:10,266 [Michael] Well, that's out. 1427 01:20:11,166 --> 01:20:12,567 I think that's a little off-key there, OK. 1428 01:20:13,133 --> 01:20:15,500 [off-key piano notes] 1429 01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:16,667 [Michael] Nope. 1430 01:20:17,233 --> 01:20:19,266 [piano notes continue] 1431 01:20:20,667 --> 01:20:23,166 [Mike] There's nothing we can do about the past. 1432 01:20:24,667 --> 01:20:27,567 So, we're not gonna delve on the past. 1433 01:20:28,233 --> 01:20:28,600 You gotta stand up and bow. 1434 01:20:29,367 --> 01:20:30,734 ["Moonlight Sonata" by Beethoven] 1435 01:20:31,367 --> 01:20:32,767 Thank you very much there. 1436 01:20:33,266 --> 01:20:34,367 Look at this guy. 1437 01:20:35,266 --> 01:20:37,500 Holy crap. These are my boys doing that. 1438 01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:42,734 I just gotta move on. 1439 01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:47,767 Well, another era gone. 1440 01:20:48,867 --> 01:20:49,867 What do you think, baby? 1441 01:20:50,700 --> 01:20:50,934 [Michael] Good job on the left hand. 1442 01:20:51,900 --> 01:20:52,767 -What? -Good job on the left hand. 1443 01:20:53,867 --> 01:20:54,834 -[Chris] Good job, Mike. -[Mike] You guys are awesome. 1444 01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:57,467 All right, time for Captain Crunch. 1445 01:20:57,834 --> 01:20:58,567 Let's go. 1446 01:21:03,166 --> 01:21:04,500 [Mike] Oh, gosh. 1447 01:21:08,467 --> 01:21:10,000 Change is good. 1448 01:21:10,433 --> 01:21:11,166 Change is good. 1449 01:21:16,266 --> 01:21:17,467 Beautiful day out today. 1450 01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:22,400 ["So Alive" by Love and Rockets playing] 1451 01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:41,467 [all cheering] 1452 01:21:46,967 --> 01:21:50,567 โ™ช But your hair is long and brown โ™ช 1453 01:21:52,500 --> 01:21:55,600 โ™ช Your legs are strong, and they're so, so long โ™ช 1454 01:21:56,500 --> 01:21:58,734 โ™ช And you don't come from this town โ™ช 1455 01:22:00,266 --> 01:22:03,867 โ™ช My head is full of magic, baby โ™ช 1456 01:22:04,734 --> 01:22:07,000 โ™ช And I can't share this with you โ™ช 1457 01:22:08,367 --> 01:22:12,066 โ™ช Feel I'm on a cross again lately โ™ช 1458 01:22:12,967 --> 01:22:15,867 โ™ช But there's nothing to do with you โ™ช 1459 01:22:16,667 --> 01:22:21,266 โ™ช I'm alive huh, huh, so alive โ™ช 1460 01:22:24,166 --> 01:22:30,300 โ™ช I'm alive, huh, huh, so alive โ™ช 1461 01:22:32,467 --> 01:22:37,200 โ™ช I feel I'm on top -- on top -- on top -- on top โ™ช 1462 01:22:38,133 --> 01:22:40,734 -[tape continues skipping] -[all laughing] 1463 01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:43,867 -[music resumes] -[cheering] 1464 01:22:56,166 --> 01:22:58,767 -[cheering] -[clapping] 112037

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