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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,135 --> 00:00:02,701 BEN: They hacked corporations. 2 00:00:02,803 --> 00:00:05,971 None of these targets were particularly difficult to hack. 3 00:00:06,073 --> 00:00:07,639 A 3-year-old could do it. 4 00:00:07,742 --> 00:00:09,408 They challenged governments. 5 00:00:09,510 --> 00:00:12,611 Any method of disruption at any cost, any means necessary. 6 00:00:12,713 --> 00:00:14,313 They wanted to change the world. 7 00:00:18,419 --> 00:00:19,885 But after a series of arrests 8 00:00:19,987 --> 00:00:21,253 and an informant on the inside... 9 00:00:21,355 --> 00:00:23,088 I was arrested when I was 16 years old. 10 00:00:23,190 --> 00:00:24,556 Police broke down the front door, 11 00:00:24,658 --> 00:00:25,958 handcuffed me in my bed. 12 00:00:26,060 --> 00:00:27,559 ...who is Anonymous now? 13 00:00:28,963 --> 00:00:38,971 ♪ 14 00:00:58,692 --> 00:01:02,594 I'm calling Jeremy Hammond, a legendary Anonymous hacker. 15 00:01:02,696 --> 00:01:04,663 Hammond is serving a 10-year prison sentence 16 00:01:04,765 --> 00:01:06,498 for hacking a private intelligence firm. 17 00:01:08,502 --> 00:01:09,835 Jeremy, how you doing? It's Ben. 18 00:01:27,521 --> 00:01:28,954 You can't finish this call? 19 00:01:32,059 --> 00:01:33,225 You gotta go? 20 00:01:33,327 --> 00:01:35,060 Okay, are you gonna call back? 21 00:01:37,164 --> 00:01:38,897 Okay, alright. Thanks, man. 22 00:01:38,999 --> 00:01:40,165 Good luck. 23 00:01:40,267 --> 00:01:41,700 (Beeping) 24 00:01:43,904 --> 00:01:45,070 Well, that was bullshit. 25 00:01:46,340 --> 00:01:47,673 VOICE: Greetings, citizens of the world. 26 00:01:47,775 --> 00:01:49,675 VOICE: Hello, Congress of the United States. 27 00:01:49,777 --> 00:01:52,177 VOICE: Hello, leaders of Scientology. 28 00:01:52,279 --> 00:01:53,712 BEN: Anonymous. 29 00:01:53,814 --> 00:01:56,248 It's a brand, a meme, and a movement. 30 00:01:56,350 --> 00:01:57,816 VOICE: We are Anonymous. 31 00:01:57,918 --> 00:01:59,184 We are legion. 32 00:01:59,286 --> 00:02:00,486 We do not forgive. 33 00:02:00,588 --> 00:02:01,987 We do not forget. 34 00:02:02,089 --> 00:02:03,655 Expect us. 35 00:02:03,757 --> 00:02:06,225 BEN: For almost a decade they've hacked into corporations, 36 00:02:06,327 --> 00:02:09,394 stolen private information, and shut down websites. 37 00:02:11,098 --> 00:02:13,265 Their signature is instantly recognizable, 38 00:02:13,367 --> 00:02:16,068 the Guy Fawkes mask from the movie V For Vendetta, 39 00:02:16,170 --> 00:02:19,271 which was based on the graphic novel series of the same name. 40 00:02:19,373 --> 00:02:22,508 The real Guy Fawkes was executed in 1606 for conspiring 41 00:02:22,610 --> 00:02:25,344 to kill the king and blow up the British Parliament. 42 00:02:25,446 --> 00:02:27,346 I went to talk with Gabriella Coleman, 43 00:02:27,448 --> 00:02:30,682 an anthropologist who wrote the definitive book on Anonymous. 44 00:02:30,784 --> 00:02:33,619 Full disclosure: she's also a consultant on this show. 45 00:02:35,189 --> 00:02:37,356 GABRIELLA: They're ghostly, they're spectral, 46 00:02:37,458 --> 00:02:41,093 they're mysterious, they're controversial, they're radical. 47 00:02:41,195 --> 00:02:42,928 It's a protest movement. 48 00:02:43,030 --> 00:02:46,131 It's not about long-term structural change. 49 00:02:46,233 --> 00:02:50,035 It's about getting people excited for activism, 50 00:02:50,137 --> 00:02:51,637 which is incredibly important, 51 00:02:51,739 --> 00:02:55,874 and then I think their most kind of constructive contribution 52 00:02:55,976 --> 00:02:59,811 has to do with the leaking of information, whistleblowing. 53 00:02:59,914 --> 00:03:01,980 But that's not how Anonymous started out. 54 00:03:02,082 --> 00:03:04,917 Back in the early 2000s, a group of trolls banded together 55 00:03:05,019 --> 00:03:07,886 on a web forum called 4Chan, taking their name 56 00:03:07,988 --> 00:03:11,290 from the default ID many used to post: Anonymous. 57 00:03:11,392 --> 00:03:15,727 Anonymous was never meant to become an activist phenomena. 58 00:03:15,829 --> 00:03:18,764 Today it's identified with politics, with activism, 59 00:03:18,866 --> 00:03:23,569 but its roots are in the offensive, 60 00:03:23,671 --> 00:03:27,306 sometimes terrifying, sometimes humourous world 61 00:03:27,408 --> 00:03:29,474 of internet trolling. 62 00:03:29,577 --> 00:03:32,844 Trolling is the time-honoured practice of online baiting. 63 00:03:32,947 --> 00:03:35,948 And in 2008, Anonymous found an easy target. 64 00:03:36,050 --> 00:03:38,083 It started with a video featuring the world's 65 00:03:38,185 --> 00:03:42,254 most famous Scientologist, a very enthusiastic Tom Cruise. 66 00:03:42,356 --> 00:03:44,756 (Maniacal laughing) 67 00:03:44,858 --> 00:03:46,992 The Church of Scientology was trying to get this video, 68 00:03:47,094 --> 00:03:50,262 apparently leaked by a church insider, off the internet. 69 00:03:50,364 --> 00:03:52,497 And the Church of Scientology threatened 70 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,101 all sorts of publishers like Gawker with lawsuits 71 00:03:56,203 --> 00:03:58,103 if they didn't take down the video. 72 00:03:58,205 --> 00:04:01,840 And it was at this moment that Anonymous decides to target the 73 00:04:01,942 --> 00:04:05,444 Church of Scientology with one of these trolling campaigns. 74 00:04:05,546 --> 00:04:07,946 And in this case, it was... I like to refer to it as 75 00:04:08,048 --> 00:04:11,483 the Mothership Trolling Campaign that Anonymous engaged in. 76 00:04:11,585 --> 00:04:17,289 They prank-called a Scientology Dianetics hotline. 77 00:04:17,391 --> 00:04:22,127 They sent hundreds of pizzas to churches across North America. 78 00:04:22,229 --> 00:04:25,731 They sent black faxes to all the churches. 79 00:04:27,067 --> 00:04:29,568 Then, Anonymous hit Scientology websites with what's called 80 00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:33,305 a Distributed Denial of Service, or DDoS. 81 00:04:33,407 --> 00:04:35,140 A DDoS attack floods a website 82 00:04:35,242 --> 00:04:37,509 with so much traffic that it crashes. 83 00:04:37,611 --> 00:04:39,511 When the attack stops, the site can come back up 84 00:04:39,613 --> 00:04:41,313 without any permanent damage. 85 00:04:42,750 --> 00:04:45,817 And it was during the course of that campaign that they also 86 00:04:45,919 --> 00:04:49,054 then started to debate whether they should kind of earnestly 87 00:04:49,156 --> 00:04:51,657 protest the Church of Scientology not for the sake of 88 00:04:51,759 --> 00:04:56,595 trolling, but for the kind of sake of, you know, activism. 89 00:04:57,531 --> 00:04:59,264 For the first time, Anonymous was considering 90 00:04:59,366 --> 00:05:01,033 real political action. 91 00:05:01,135 --> 00:05:03,235 And then came a fateful step. 92 00:05:03,337 --> 00:05:05,771 The collective called for a worldwide street protest 93 00:05:05,873 --> 00:05:09,441 against Scientology, and thousands actually showed up. 94 00:05:09,543 --> 00:05:12,344 Anonymous' next big op was just as political. 95 00:05:12,446 --> 00:05:14,179 It morphed from an anti-copyright movement 96 00:05:14,281 --> 00:05:16,348 into a massive campaign to defend WikiLeaks 97 00:05:16,450 --> 00:05:18,850 and its founder, Julian Assange. 98 00:05:18,952 --> 00:05:21,920 In November 2010, WikiLeaks began publishing a trove 99 00:05:22,022 --> 00:05:25,357 of leaked diplomatic cables, classified dispatches between 100 00:05:25,459 --> 00:05:27,859 American embassies and the State Department. 101 00:05:27,961 --> 00:05:30,028 Visa, MasterCard and PayPal 102 00:05:30,130 --> 00:05:32,698 stopped processing donations to WikiLeaks. 103 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,468 Anonymous struck back with what they called Op Payback. 104 00:05:37,738 --> 00:05:41,606 That operation was, and I still think is, 105 00:05:41,709 --> 00:05:46,545 the largest protest DDoS that the internet has ever seen. 106 00:05:46,647 --> 00:05:50,549 You had over 7,000 people that showed up on the chat channel 107 00:05:50,651 --> 00:05:52,818 where activity was organized. 108 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,953 It was monumental DDoS. 109 00:05:55,055 --> 00:05:58,557 Multi-day against Visa, PayPal, MasterCard. 110 00:06:01,328 --> 00:06:03,595 Op Payback put Anonymous on the world stage, 111 00:06:03,697 --> 00:06:05,697 and put them on the FBI's radar. 112 00:06:07,501 --> 00:06:09,434 As the bureau's top official in cyber crime, 113 00:06:09,536 --> 00:06:12,137 Shawn Henry watched Anonymous rise. 114 00:06:12,239 --> 00:06:13,905 He retired in 2012. 115 00:06:15,008 --> 00:06:18,176 What was it like when you first encountered Anonymous? 116 00:06:18,278 --> 00:06:21,113 Anonymous, I mean, just the very name, right? 117 00:06:21,215 --> 00:06:23,682 Who is it that we're trying to investigate? 118 00:06:23,784 --> 00:06:25,317 Where do they reside? 119 00:06:25,419 --> 00:06:26,952 Who do they associate with? 120 00:06:27,054 --> 00:06:30,088 This is a group that's been widely dispersed 121 00:06:30,190 --> 00:06:32,924 around the country, and has been pretty good about 122 00:06:33,026 --> 00:06:36,128 keeping themselves off the grid as individuals. 123 00:06:36,230 --> 00:06:38,029 What about what they actually do? 124 00:06:38,132 --> 00:06:40,265 'Cause a lot of it's just like a DDoS attack. 125 00:06:40,367 --> 00:06:42,334 Is that really all that bad? 126 00:06:42,436 --> 00:06:46,104 We're seeing a new form of social protest, and that is 127 00:06:46,206 --> 00:06:50,776 people taking advantage of their technical skills 128 00:06:50,878 --> 00:06:55,814 to object in a loud sort of way to social 129 00:06:55,916 --> 00:06:59,651 and political practices that they deem objectionable. 130 00:06:59,753 --> 00:07:02,788 I mean, a lot of that activity is illegal under our existing 131 00:07:02,890 --> 00:07:07,225 law, and there are authorized ways that people can protest. 132 00:07:07,327 --> 00:07:11,897 Using the network to disrupt organizations or to breach data 133 00:07:11,999 --> 00:07:15,667 and to steal it is not one of those ways. 134 00:07:15,769 --> 00:07:19,337 By 2011, Anonymous had gone from a fringe group of trolls 135 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,373 to a global political force. 136 00:07:22,743 --> 00:07:24,176 The collective attacked the websites 137 00:07:24,278 --> 00:07:26,812 of repressive governments to support the Arab Spring, 138 00:07:26,914 --> 00:07:30,182 took to the streets as part of the Occupy Wall Street movement, 139 00:07:30,284 --> 00:07:33,685 and hacked corporations and law enforcement along the way. 140 00:07:33,787 --> 00:07:35,654 But to understand who Anonymous is now, 141 00:07:35,756 --> 00:07:38,156 I had to meet some of them... in person. 142 00:07:41,495 --> 00:07:43,895 BEN: Anonymous is basically a network of online trolls 143 00:07:43,997 --> 00:07:46,331 that became a global force to be reckoned with. 144 00:07:46,433 --> 00:07:48,900 They usually organize on a network of online chat channels 145 00:07:49,002 --> 00:07:51,670 called IRC using aliases. 146 00:07:51,772 --> 00:07:53,905 But that doesn't mean they never meet in person. 147 00:07:54,007 --> 00:07:55,941 And Chaos Communication Camp, 148 00:07:56,043 --> 00:07:58,844 a hacker gathering that only happens once every 4 years, 149 00:07:58,946 --> 00:08:01,112 turned out to be a bit of a reunion party. 150 00:08:01,215 --> 00:08:03,415 Some of the people I met 151 00:08:03,517 --> 00:08:05,283 have never been interviewed on camera before. 152 00:08:05,385 --> 00:08:07,586 My name is Mercedes "N0" Haefer, 153 00:08:07,688 --> 00:08:11,490 and I have two State National Bowling Championships. 154 00:08:12,726 --> 00:08:14,125 I'm Keith. 155 00:08:14,228 --> 00:08:16,094 I'm the prettiest PayPal 14 defendant. 156 00:08:16,196 --> 00:08:19,264 And I'm Panda, and I'm the King of Sweden. 157 00:08:19,366 --> 00:08:20,599 (Giggling) 158 00:08:20,701 --> 00:08:23,101 N0, Keth and Anon Panda took part in Anonymous' 159 00:08:23,203 --> 00:08:27,038 legendary attack against PayPal, Visa and MasterCard 160 00:08:27,140 --> 00:08:29,608 in support of WikiLeaks and its founder, Julian Assange. 161 00:08:29,710 --> 00:08:34,846 I mean, I don't like him as a person, but... 162 00:08:34,948 --> 00:08:36,214 that doesn't mean he doesn't have rights, 163 00:08:36,316 --> 00:08:38,350 and that doesn't mean I won't fight for his rights. 164 00:08:38,452 --> 00:08:40,819 Because if he doesn't have rights, 165 00:08:40,921 --> 00:08:42,287 then I don't have rights. 166 00:08:42,389 --> 00:08:44,823 Everybody has them, or they're just privileges. 167 00:08:44,925 --> 00:08:50,328 So if I want to be able to publish secret government data 168 00:08:50,430 --> 00:08:54,065 that everyone should know, then I also have to defend Assange. 169 00:08:54,167 --> 00:08:56,201 But some within Anonymous weren't as interested 170 00:08:56,303 --> 00:08:58,336 in politics as they were in "lulz", 171 00:08:58,438 --> 00:09:01,806 internet slang for hilarity, and LulzSec was a small 172 00:09:01,909 --> 00:09:03,642 breakaway group of Anonymous members 173 00:09:03,744 --> 00:09:06,077 who just wanted some lulz at the system's expense. 174 00:09:08,148 --> 00:09:11,883 Quite frankly, hackers get bored, and there's nothing... 175 00:09:11,985 --> 00:09:14,920 there's nothing more dangerous than a bored hacker, because 176 00:09:15,022 --> 00:09:17,889 they'll make themselves not bored very... ing quickly. 177 00:09:19,126 --> 00:09:21,826 Darren Martyn took part in both Anonymous and LulzSec, 178 00:09:21,929 --> 00:09:24,095 going by the name pwnsauce. 179 00:09:24,197 --> 00:09:26,998 "Pwning" something can mean that you've hacked it completely. 180 00:09:27,100 --> 00:09:29,034 When it all really started kicking off, 181 00:09:29,136 --> 00:09:31,236 the LulzSec thing was just when I was turning 19. 182 00:09:31,338 --> 00:09:33,772 So pretty much the same as most of the people involved. 183 00:09:33,874 --> 00:09:35,774 We were all kids basically. 184 00:09:35,876 --> 00:09:38,276 So we just kinda split off and did our own thing. 185 00:09:38,378 --> 00:09:39,945 And then... 186 00:09:40,047 --> 00:09:42,614 well, you know, it just kinda took on a life of its own. 187 00:09:43,617 --> 00:09:45,050 Who were some of LulzSec's targets, 188 00:09:45,152 --> 00:09:47,018 and why'd you guys decide on them? 189 00:10:04,037 --> 00:10:07,606 tflow was a respected Anonymous member and a talented hacker. 190 00:10:07,708 --> 00:10:11,676 He was also part of LulzSec, all at the age of 16. 191 00:10:13,146 --> 00:10:15,947 In the summer of 2011, LulzSec went on a hacking spree. 192 00:10:16,049 --> 00:10:19,584 They DDoSed the websites of the CIA and the Senate, 193 00:10:19,686 --> 00:10:22,120 hacked an FBI association called InfraGard, 194 00:10:22,222 --> 00:10:25,390 and published a fake story on PBS NewsHour's site. 195 00:10:25,492 --> 00:10:28,226 They also redirected the UK newspaper The Sun 196 00:10:28,328 --> 00:10:30,629 to a fake obituary... for its owner. 197 00:10:32,165 --> 00:10:35,400 None of these targets were particularly difficult to hack. 198 00:10:35,502 --> 00:10:37,102 A 3-year-old could do it. 199 00:10:37,204 --> 00:10:40,739 I mean, senate.gov was one of the simplest hacks 200 00:10:40,841 --> 00:10:42,407 ever pulled off. 201 00:10:42,509 --> 00:10:43,908 It was like the '90s called; 202 00:10:44,011 --> 00:10:45,910 it wants its... ing security vulnerabilities back. 203 00:11:06,366 --> 00:11:08,299 Well, it just seems like justice, like you said. 204 00:11:08,402 --> 00:11:11,269 If they're hacking, then why not let us hack them? 205 00:11:15,542 --> 00:11:16,775 Both LulzSec and Anonymous 206 00:11:16,877 --> 00:11:19,110 needed servers to organize online. 207 00:11:19,212 --> 00:11:20,812 And since corporate servers would just shut them down 208 00:11:20,914 --> 00:11:22,781 or turn them over to the police, 209 00:11:22,883 --> 00:11:24,616 the collective built its own network. 210 00:11:24,718 --> 00:11:26,851 That's where Chris Weatherhead came in. 211 00:11:26,953 --> 00:11:29,120 He helped establish AnonOps, 212 00:11:29,222 --> 00:11:31,056 the collective's main network of chatrooms. 213 00:11:32,759 --> 00:11:34,159 So you ran the servers that Anonymous used 214 00:11:34,261 --> 00:11:35,460 for their operations? 215 00:11:35,562 --> 00:11:37,662 Yes, so I ran... yeah, servers that they used 216 00:11:37,764 --> 00:11:39,464 for a few of their operations. 217 00:11:39,566 --> 00:11:44,202 Probably most notably the ones relating to Operation Payback, 218 00:11:44,304 --> 00:11:47,305 the Operation Avenge Assange, stuff in the Arab Spring 219 00:11:47,407 --> 00:11:50,875 like the Operation Tunisia, helping the Tunisian people, 220 00:11:50,977 --> 00:11:53,344 Operation Egypt, helping people get back online 221 00:11:53,447 --> 00:11:55,814 when Mubarak cut them off. 222 00:11:55,916 --> 00:11:58,049 Did you develop pretty close friendships with certain people? 223 00:11:58,151 --> 00:12:01,986 None of us knew who anyone else really was. 224 00:12:02,089 --> 00:12:07,325 So there's sort of a crossover between friendship and trust. 225 00:12:07,427 --> 00:12:11,029 You reach a point where you're implicitly trusting people with 226 00:12:11,131 --> 00:12:15,266 information, and therefore you are essentially befriending them 227 00:12:15,368 --> 00:12:17,435 because you only trust your friends. 228 00:12:17,537 --> 00:12:19,204 Trust was important, since all of this was illegal 229 00:12:19,306 --> 00:12:20,872 and the heat was on. 230 00:12:20,974 --> 00:12:24,275 In 2011, law enforcement around the world located and arrested 231 00:12:24,377 --> 00:12:26,811 several members of LulzSec and Anonymous, 232 00:12:26,913 --> 00:12:29,447 laying dozens of charges for their high-profile hacks. 233 00:12:33,286 --> 00:12:34,686 So when the police turned up at my house, 234 00:12:34,788 --> 00:12:36,187 it was a highly unpleasant experience. 235 00:12:36,289 --> 00:12:38,890 They kind of gave it the whole TV treatment, 236 00:12:38,992 --> 00:12:40,225 I guess you could call it. 237 00:12:40,327 --> 00:12:42,927 They sent in the whole, you know... 238 00:12:43,029 --> 00:12:44,529 lots of people shouting really loudly 239 00:12:44,631 --> 00:12:46,698 with, you know, firearms and shit. 240 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,234 I guess they were afraid that laptops were wired to explode 241 00:12:49,336 --> 00:12:51,202 or some crazy shit like that. 242 00:12:51,304 --> 00:12:53,638 Or that, you know, I'd have a delete button which would 243 00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:55,373 make all of the evidence disappear or something. 244 00:12:55,475 --> 00:12:58,209 Police broke down the front door, came in, 245 00:12:58,311 --> 00:13:01,446 arrested me in my bed, handcuffed me in my bed. 246 00:13:03,483 --> 00:13:05,750 They all seemed so surprised that 247 00:13:05,852 --> 00:13:09,387 my computer and everything around it was off. 248 00:13:09,489 --> 00:13:10,722 Of course it's off! 249 00:13:10,824 --> 00:13:12,624 It's 7:00 in the f... morning! 250 00:13:12,726 --> 00:13:14,793 (Laughing) 251 00:13:14,895 --> 00:13:16,561 What would you expect? 252 00:13:16,663 --> 00:13:19,097 And me personally, I was just arrested because... 253 00:13:19,199 --> 00:13:21,065 'Cause you're so pretty! 254 00:13:21,168 --> 00:13:22,600 It's 'cause you're so pretty. 255 00:13:22,702 --> 00:13:24,402 N0 and Keth were arrested, 256 00:13:24,504 --> 00:13:26,638 but narrowly avoided doing major time. 257 00:13:26,740 --> 00:13:28,640 tflow was too young to go to prison, 258 00:13:28,742 --> 00:13:30,608 pwnsauce got off with a fine, 259 00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:33,211 and Chris spent 4-and-a-half months behind bars. 260 00:13:33,313 --> 00:13:35,713 But there were much harsher sentences to come. 261 00:13:38,919 --> 00:13:40,318 BEN: Anonymous was on a roll. 262 00:13:40,420 --> 00:13:44,222 That is, until a series of arrests in 2011 and 2012. 263 00:13:44,324 --> 00:13:46,157 But for members of the collective, 264 00:13:46,259 --> 00:13:48,193 there was more shocking news to come; 265 00:13:48,295 --> 00:13:51,429 many of these arrests were made possible by an informant. 266 00:13:51,531 --> 00:13:54,732 Hector Xavier Monsegur, otherwise known as Sabu, 267 00:13:54,835 --> 00:13:57,502 was a vocal member of Anonymous and LulzSec. 268 00:13:57,604 --> 00:13:59,437 Many considered him a friend. 269 00:13:59,539 --> 00:14:00,672 You met Sabu. 270 00:14:00,774 --> 00:14:02,941 What was that like, and what was he like? 271 00:14:03,043 --> 00:14:05,577 Sabu is such an interesting character. 272 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,914 He was really involved in Anonymous. 273 00:14:10,016 --> 00:14:12,217 He was very charismatic. 274 00:14:12,319 --> 00:14:15,520 His personality online was larger than life. 275 00:14:15,622 --> 00:14:18,723 It was why he was so effective as an informant. 276 00:14:18,825 --> 00:14:22,427 Some of his peers and colleagues, you know, 277 00:14:22,529 --> 00:14:24,262 described him as "legend". 278 00:14:24,364 --> 00:14:28,233 Why do you think he ratted out his friends and his peers? 279 00:14:28,335 --> 00:14:31,269 Sabu was put in a difficult situation. 280 00:14:31,371 --> 00:14:36,474 When the FBI showed up at his house, they basically said, 281 00:14:36,576 --> 00:14:40,812 "Look, work for us or we will take your foster kids 282 00:14:40,914 --> 00:14:45,149 away from you, and away from your family entirely." 283 00:14:45,252 --> 00:14:48,286 And he took the deal that was given to him, and started 284 00:14:48,388 --> 00:14:51,456 almost immediately to work for the FBI. 285 00:14:51,558 --> 00:14:53,925 Sabu not only led the FBI to LulzSec, 286 00:14:54,027 --> 00:14:56,494 but to one of Anonymous' most brilliant hackers, 287 00:14:56,596 --> 00:14:59,297 a 27-year-old named Jeremy Hammond. 288 00:14:59,399 --> 00:15:00,932 Hammond was the real deal: 289 00:15:01,034 --> 00:15:03,768 a radical anarchist as active in the streets as he was online; 290 00:15:03,870 --> 00:15:06,938 a hacktivist way before Anonymous was even a thing. 291 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,607 And we believe that the internet is a powerful new medium 292 00:15:09,709 --> 00:15:13,244 where just a handful of people in small groups, 293 00:15:13,346 --> 00:15:15,780 just by shifting data around in the right directions, 294 00:15:15,882 --> 00:15:17,916 can make big changes and big damage. 295 00:15:18,018 --> 00:15:21,252 Any method of disruption at any cost, any means necessary. 296 00:15:21,354 --> 00:15:23,821 Hammond helped launch Op AntiSec, 297 00:15:23,924 --> 00:15:26,190 which targeted police departments and what he calls 298 00:15:26,293 --> 00:15:28,626 the national security complex. 299 00:15:28,728 --> 00:15:31,329 Sabu was also a major player in AntiSec, 300 00:15:31,431 --> 00:15:34,098 all while working for the FBI. 301 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,301 With the feds watching his every move, 302 00:15:36,403 --> 00:15:38,770 Sabu introduced Hammond to a hacker who had found a way 303 00:15:38,872 --> 00:15:42,206 into Stratfor, a massive global intelligence firm. 304 00:15:42,309 --> 00:15:44,609 Hammond then hacked Stratfor, stealing thousands of 305 00:15:44,711 --> 00:15:46,678 credit card numbers and millions of emails. 306 00:15:46,780 --> 00:15:48,546 He was arrested for the hack, 307 00:15:48,648 --> 00:15:51,015 and is now serving a 10-year sentence in federal prison. 308 00:15:51,885 --> 00:15:53,351 VOICE: Dial 5 now. 309 00:15:55,455 --> 00:15:57,055 Yo, what's going on? You okay? 310 00:15:58,892 --> 00:16:00,825 So just... I'll get right to it. 311 00:16:00,927 --> 00:16:02,527 Why'd you hack Stratfor? 312 00:16:23,750 --> 00:16:25,483 Why don't you tell me about Sabu. 313 00:16:25,585 --> 00:16:27,952 What was his role in all this? 314 00:16:43,136 --> 00:16:44,836 How'd that make you feel? 315 00:17:16,136 --> 00:17:17,869 BEN: I asked Sabu to tell his side of the story, 316 00:17:17,971 --> 00:17:20,471 but he declined to talk to me on the record. 317 00:17:20,573 --> 00:17:22,373 After Hammond hacked Stratfor, 318 00:17:22,475 --> 00:17:24,375 he leaked the company's emails to WikiLeaks. 319 00:17:24,477 --> 00:17:27,445 The emails revealed Stratfor had monitored activists worldwide. 320 00:17:28,515 --> 00:17:34,452 WikiLeaks begins its release of 5,000 emails documenting 321 00:17:34,554 --> 00:17:40,291 the private lives and private lies of private spies. 322 00:17:41,694 --> 00:17:43,294 But one question still remains: 323 00:17:43,396 --> 00:17:45,396 This whole time, the FBI had an informant, 324 00:17:45,498 --> 00:17:47,465 so why did it let Stratfor get hacked? 325 00:17:49,235 --> 00:17:51,069 The FBI could've done something about that, 326 00:17:51,171 --> 00:17:53,237 they could've prevented all this damage from happening. 327 00:17:53,339 --> 00:17:55,573 But no, they were more interested in entrapping people, 328 00:17:55,675 --> 00:17:58,276 and you know, ensnaring people in doing things. 329 00:17:58,378 --> 00:17:59,911 While they could've stopped things 330 00:18:00,013 --> 00:18:02,013 and done crime prevention, instead they thought, 331 00:18:02,115 --> 00:18:03,948 "... it, we're gonna entrap everyone." 332 00:18:04,050 --> 00:18:06,818 I mean, that... they completely burned Stratfor. 333 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,754 And you know, the FBI need to have a good look at themselves 334 00:18:09,856 --> 00:18:13,691 and go, you know, "What... ing moral high horse do we have 335 00:18:13,793 --> 00:18:16,094 to stand on when we're using other people as bait?" 336 00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:19,964 After the high-profile arrests of some of its core members, 337 00:18:20,066 --> 00:18:22,133 Anonymous was at a crossroads. 338 00:18:22,235 --> 00:18:23,568 But that made some of its hackers 339 00:18:23,670 --> 00:18:25,336 more determined than ever. 340 00:18:27,841 --> 00:18:30,441 BEN: Sabu's betrayal broke trust within Anonymous. 341 00:18:30,543 --> 00:18:32,743 Anyone can be an informant. 342 00:18:32,846 --> 00:18:34,779 And security expert Robert Hansen believes 343 00:18:34,881 --> 00:18:36,814 the group has been infiltrated. 344 00:18:36,916 --> 00:18:38,516 I know that there are certain governments who have 345 00:18:38,618 --> 00:18:40,751 a keen interest at not only infiltrating them, 346 00:18:40,854 --> 00:18:43,187 but flipping people inside Anonymous 347 00:18:43,289 --> 00:18:44,856 and turning them against one another. 348 00:18:44,958 --> 00:18:47,792 And you're saying that signals intelligence agencies 349 00:18:47,894 --> 00:18:51,329 around the world will try to compromise Anonymous? 350 00:18:51,431 --> 00:18:52,663 Yes. 351 00:18:52,765 --> 00:18:54,465 Which ones in particular? 352 00:18:54,567 --> 00:18:55,867 At this point, most of them. 353 00:18:55,969 --> 00:18:57,135 (Laughing) 354 00:18:57,237 --> 00:18:59,670 Yeah, I've actually sat in meetings 355 00:18:59,772 --> 00:19:02,173 where people have actively talked about doing that. 356 00:19:02,275 --> 00:19:05,610 And not as a "we could", as in "we are". 357 00:19:05,712 --> 00:19:08,880 So Anonymous is essentially as clean as a public swimming pool? 358 00:19:08,982 --> 00:19:10,381 (Laughing) 359 00:19:10,483 --> 00:19:11,449 I don't know if I'd put it that way. 360 00:19:11,551 --> 00:19:12,850 (Laughing) 361 00:19:12,952 --> 00:19:14,952 But what I do know is that it would be too dangerous 362 00:19:15,054 --> 00:19:16,787 for a guy like me to ever consider being involved with 363 00:19:16,890 --> 00:19:18,222 at this point. 364 00:19:18,324 --> 00:19:19,357 If I were apart of Anonymous right now, 365 00:19:19,459 --> 00:19:21,192 I would burn everything and walk away, 366 00:19:21,294 --> 00:19:22,627 and I would never look back. 367 00:19:24,063 --> 00:19:26,330 But for some, walking away isn't an option. 368 00:19:26,432 --> 00:19:29,333 Despite the risks, Anonymous DDoS actions and hacks 369 00:19:29,435 --> 00:19:30,902 continue across the globe. 370 00:19:33,239 --> 00:19:35,706 What do you say to people that say Anonymous is flaming out? 371 00:19:37,277 --> 00:19:38,442 Why not? 372 00:19:38,545 --> 00:19:40,144 (Laughing) 373 00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:49,153 Bio could go to jail if his identity is revealed. 374 00:19:49,255 --> 00:19:52,423 He took part in DDoS attacks on Canadian government websites, 375 00:19:52,525 --> 00:19:56,194 protesting an anti-terrorism bill known as C-51. 376 00:19:56,296 --> 00:19:58,229 The legislation gives the government broader 377 00:19:58,331 --> 00:20:01,165 surveillance powers, sparking concerns about privacy abuse. 378 00:20:02,602 --> 00:20:04,335 Are you gonna escalate your attacks on Canada? 379 00:20:04,437 --> 00:20:06,237 Are you gonna go after more stuff? 380 00:20:20,687 --> 00:20:21,919 As a terrorist? 381 00:20:26,926 --> 00:20:28,459 (Laughing) 382 00:20:32,365 --> 00:20:33,564 Right. 383 00:20:38,004 --> 00:20:40,638 If you put your chances of going to jail in a percentage, 384 00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:41,606 what would it be? 385 00:20:41,708 --> 00:20:42,773 (Laughing) 386 00:21:12,405 --> 00:21:14,305 If you could go back and do it all again, would you? 387 00:21:14,407 --> 00:21:16,240 Would I have had those ideas? 388 00:21:16,342 --> 00:21:17,775 Probably. 389 00:21:17,877 --> 00:21:20,244 Would I have gotten involved with Anonymous? 390 00:21:20,346 --> 00:21:21,579 Probably. 391 00:21:21,681 --> 00:21:23,748 Would I have ended up running servers? 392 00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:25,416 Highly likely. 393 00:21:25,518 --> 00:21:28,286 Therefore, would I still be in the situation I'm in now? 394 00:21:28,388 --> 00:21:29,920 Very likely. 395 00:21:31,224 --> 00:21:32,990 How does this end personally for you? 396 00:21:49,709 --> 00:21:52,610 At its best, Anonymous has embarrassed those in power, 397 00:21:52,712 --> 00:21:54,445 taunting them, paralyzing them, 398 00:21:54,547 --> 00:21:56,213 and spilling their secrets online. 399 00:21:56,316 --> 00:21:58,115 As much an idea as a collective, 400 00:21:58,217 --> 00:22:00,318 concerted campaigns by law enforcement 401 00:22:00,420 --> 00:22:03,354 could weaken and demoralize, but not destroy it. 402 00:22:03,456 --> 00:22:05,923 And so Anonymous lives on. 403 00:22:15,001 --> 00:22:16,367 Thanks a lot, and I really appreciate you taking the time 404 00:22:16,469 --> 00:22:17,868 to talk to us. 405 00:22:17,970 --> 00:22:19,003 Take it easy. 30930

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