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BEN: They hacked corporations.
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None of these targets were
particularly difficult to hack.
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A 3-year-old could do it.
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00:00:07,742 --> 00:00:09,408
They challenged governments.
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Any method of disruption at
any cost, any means necessary.
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They wanted to change the world.
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But after a series of arrests
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and an informant
on the inside...
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I was arrested when
I was 16 years old.
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Police broke down
the front door,
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handcuffed me in my bed.
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...who is Anonymous now?
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♪
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I'm calling Jeremy Hammond,
a legendary Anonymous hacker.
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Hammond is serving a
10-year prison sentence
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for hacking a private
intelligence firm.
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Jeremy, how you doing?
It's Ben.
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You can't finish this call?
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You gotta go?
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Okay, are you gonna call back?
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Okay, alright.
Thanks, man.
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Good luck.
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(Beeping)
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Well, that was bullshit.
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VOICE: Greetings,
citizens of the world.
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VOICE: Hello, Congress
of the United States.
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VOICE: Hello,
leaders of Scientology.
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BEN: Anonymous.
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It's a brand, a meme,
and a movement.
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VOICE: We are Anonymous.
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We are legion.
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We do not forgive.
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We do not forget.
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Expect us.
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BEN: For almost a decade they've
hacked into corporations,
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stolen private information,
and shut down websites.
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Their signature is
instantly recognizable,
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the Guy Fawkes mask from
the movie V For Vendetta,
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00:02:16,170 --> 00:02:19,271
which was based on the graphic
novel series of the same name.
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The real Guy Fawkes was
executed in 1606 for conspiring
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to kill the king and blow up
the British Parliament.
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I went to talk with
Gabriella Coleman,
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an anthropologist who wrote the
definitive book on Anonymous.
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Full disclosure: she's also
a consultant on this show.
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GABRIELLA: They're ghostly,
they're spectral,
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they're mysterious, they're
controversial, they're radical.
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It's a protest movement.
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It's not about long-term
structural change.
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It's about getting people
excited for activism,
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which is incredibly important,
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and then I think their most kind
of constructive contribution
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has to do with the leaking of
information, whistleblowing.
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But that's not how
Anonymous started out.
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00:03:02,082 --> 00:03:04,917
Back in the early 2000s, a group
of trolls banded together
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on a web forum called
4Chan, taking their name
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from the default ID many
used to post: Anonymous.
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00:03:11,392 --> 00:03:15,727
Anonymous was never meant to
become an activist phenomena.
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Today it's identified with
politics, with activism,
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but its roots are
in the offensive,
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00:03:23,671 --> 00:03:27,306
sometimes terrifying,
sometimes humourous world
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of internet trolling.
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Trolling is the time-honoured
practice of online baiting.
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And in 2008, Anonymous
found an easy target.
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It started with a video
featuring the world's
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most famous Scientologist,
a very enthusiastic Tom Cruise.
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(Maniacal laughing)
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The Church of Scientology
was trying to get this video,
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apparently leaked by a church
insider, off the internet.
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And the Church of
Scientology threatened
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all sorts of publishers
like Gawker with lawsuits
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if they didn't
take down the video.
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And it was at this moment that
Anonymous decides to target the
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00:04:01,942 --> 00:04:05,444
Church of Scientology with one
of these trolling campaigns.
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And in this case, it was...
I like to refer to it as
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the Mothership Trolling Campaign
that Anonymous engaged in.
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They prank-called a
Scientology Dianetics hotline.
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They sent hundreds of pizzas to
churches across North America.
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They sent black faxes
to all the churches.
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Then, Anonymous hit Scientology
websites with what's called
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a Distributed Denial
of Service, or DDoS.
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A DDoS attack floods a website
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with so much traffic
that it crashes.
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When the attack stops,
the site can come back up
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without any permanent damage.
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And it was during the course
of that campaign that they also
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then started to debate whether
they should kind of earnestly
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protest the Church of
Scientology not for the sake of
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trolling, but for the kind of
sake of, you know, activism.
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For the first time,
Anonymous was considering
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real political action.
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And then came a fateful step.
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The collective called for
a worldwide street protest
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against Scientology, and
thousands actually showed up.
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Anonymous' next big op
was just as political.
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It morphed from an
anti-copyright movement
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into a massive campaign
to defend WikiLeaks
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and its founder, Julian Assange.
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In November 2010, WikiLeaks
began publishing a trove
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of leaked diplomatic cables,
classified dispatches between
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American embassies and
the State Department.
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Visa, MasterCard and PayPal
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stopped processing
donations to WikiLeaks.
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Anonymous struck back with
what they called Op Payback.
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That operation was,
and I still think is,
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the largest protest DDoS that
the internet has ever seen.
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You had over 7,000 people that
showed up on the chat channel
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where activity was organized.
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It was monumental DDoS.
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Multi-day against
Visa, PayPal, MasterCard.
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Op Payback put Anonymous
on the world stage,
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and put them on the FBI's radar.
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As the bureau's top
official in cyber crime,
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Shawn Henry watched
Anonymous rise.
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He retired in 2012.
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What was it like when you
first encountered Anonymous?
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Anonymous, I mean,
just the very name, right?
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Who is it that we're
trying to investigate?
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Where do they reside?
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Who do they associate with?
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This is a group that's
been widely dispersed
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around the country, and
has been pretty good about
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keeping themselves off
the grid as individuals.
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What about what
they actually do?
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'Cause a lot of it's
just like a DDoS attack.
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Is that really all that bad?
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We're seeing a new form of
social protest, and that is
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people taking advantage
of their technical skills
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00:06:50,878 --> 00:06:55,814
to object in a loud
sort of way to social
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00:06:55,916 --> 00:06:59,651
and political practices
that they deem objectionable.
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00:06:59,753 --> 00:07:02,788
I mean, a lot of that activity
is illegal under our existing
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law, and there are authorized
ways that people can protest.
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Using the network to disrupt
organizations or to breach data
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and to steal it is
not one of those ways.
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00:07:15,769 --> 00:07:19,337
By 2011, Anonymous had gone
from a fringe group of trolls
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to a global political force.
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The collective
attacked the websites
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of repressive governments
to support the Arab Spring,
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00:07:26,914 --> 00:07:30,182
took to the streets as part of
the Occupy Wall Street movement,
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00:07:30,284 --> 00:07:33,685
and hacked corporations and
law enforcement along the way.
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00:07:33,787 --> 00:07:35,654
But to understand
who Anonymous is now,
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I had to meet some
of them... in person.
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BEN: Anonymous is basically
a network of online trolls
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that became a global force
to be reckoned with.
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They usually organize on a
network of online chat channels
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called IRC using aliases.
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But that doesn't mean
they never meet in person.
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And Chaos Communication Camp,
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a hacker gathering that only
happens once every 4 years,
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turned out to be a bit
of a reunion party.
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Some of the people I met
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have never been interviewed
on camera before.
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My name is Mercedes "N0" Haefer,
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and I have two State National
Bowling Championships.
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I'm Keith.
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I'm the prettiest
PayPal 14 defendant.
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And I'm Panda, and
I'm the King of Sweden.
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(Giggling)
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N0, Keth and Anon Panda
took part in Anonymous'
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legendary attack against
PayPal, Visa and MasterCard
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in support of WikiLeaks and
its founder, Julian Assange.
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I mean, I don't like
him as a person, but...
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that doesn't mean he
doesn't have rights,
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and that doesn't mean I
won't fight for his rights.
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Because if he
doesn't have rights,
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then I don't have rights.
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Everybody has them, or
they're just privileges.
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So if I want to be able to
publish secret government data
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that everyone should know, then
I also have to defend Assange.
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But some within Anonymous
weren't as interested
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in politics as
they were in "lulz",
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internet slang for hilarity,
and LulzSec was a small
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breakaway group of
Anonymous members
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who just wanted some lulz
at the system's expense.
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Quite frankly, hackers get
bored, and there's nothing...
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there's nothing more dangerous
than a bored hacker, because
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they'll make themselves not
bored very... ing quickly.
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00:09:19,126 --> 00:09:21,826
Darren Martyn took part in
both Anonymous and LulzSec,
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going by the name pwnsauce.
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"Pwning" something can mean that
you've hacked it completely.
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When it all really
started kicking off,
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the LulzSec thing was
just when I was turning 19.
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So pretty much the same as
most of the people involved.
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We were all kids basically.
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So we just kinda split off
and did our own thing.
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And then...
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well, you know, it just kinda
took on a life of its own.
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Who were some of
LulzSec's targets,
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00:09:45,152 --> 00:09:47,018
and why'd you guys
decide on them?
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00:10:04,037 --> 00:10:07,606
tflow was a respected Anonymous
member and a talented hacker.
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00:10:07,708 --> 00:10:11,676
He was also part of LulzSec,
all at the age of 16.
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00:10:13,146 --> 00:10:15,947
In the summer of 2011,
LulzSec went on a hacking spree.
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00:10:16,049 --> 00:10:19,584
They DDoSed the websites
of the CIA and the Senate,
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00:10:19,686 --> 00:10:22,120
hacked an FBI association
called InfraGard,
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00:10:22,222 --> 00:10:25,390
and published a fake story
on PBS NewsHour's site.
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00:10:25,492 --> 00:10:28,226
They also redirected
the UK newspaper The Sun
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00:10:28,328 --> 00:10:30,629
to a fake obituary...
for its owner.
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00:10:32,165 --> 00:10:35,400
None of these targets were
particularly difficult to hack.
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00:10:35,502 --> 00:10:37,102
A 3-year-old could do it.
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00:10:37,204 --> 00:10:40,739
I mean, senate.gov was
one of the simplest hacks
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00:10:40,841 --> 00:10:42,407
ever pulled off.
201
00:10:42,509 --> 00:10:43,908
It was like the '90s called;
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00:10:44,011 --> 00:10:45,910
it wants its... ing
security vulnerabilities back.
203
00:11:06,366 --> 00:11:08,299
Well, it just seems like
justice, like you said.
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00:11:08,402 --> 00:11:11,269
If they're hacking, then
why not let us hack them?
205
00:11:15,542 --> 00:11:16,775
Both LulzSec and Anonymous
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00:11:16,877 --> 00:11:19,110
needed servers
to organize online.
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00:11:19,212 --> 00:11:20,812
And since corporate servers
would just shut them down
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00:11:20,914 --> 00:11:22,781
or turn them over to the police,
209
00:11:22,883 --> 00:11:24,616
the collective built
its own network.
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00:11:24,718 --> 00:11:26,851
That's where Chris
Weatherhead came in.
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00:11:26,953 --> 00:11:29,120
He helped establish AnonOps,
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00:11:29,222 --> 00:11:31,056
the collective's main
network of chatrooms.
213
00:11:32,759 --> 00:11:34,159
So you ran the servers
that Anonymous used
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00:11:34,261 --> 00:11:35,460
for their operations?
215
00:11:35,562 --> 00:11:37,662
Yes, so I ran... yeah,
servers that they used
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00:11:37,764 --> 00:11:39,464
for a few of their operations.
217
00:11:39,566 --> 00:11:44,202
Probably most notably the ones
relating to Operation Payback,
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00:11:44,304 --> 00:11:47,305
the Operation Avenge Assange,
stuff in the Arab Spring
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00:11:47,407 --> 00:11:50,875
like the Operation Tunisia,
helping the Tunisian people,
220
00:11:50,977 --> 00:11:53,344
Operation Egypt, helping
people get back online
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00:11:53,447 --> 00:11:55,814
when Mubarak cut them off.
222
00:11:55,916 --> 00:11:58,049
Did you develop pretty close
friendships with certain people?
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00:11:58,151 --> 00:12:01,986
None of us knew who
anyone else really was.
224
00:12:02,089 --> 00:12:07,325
So there's sort of a crossover
between friendship and trust.
225
00:12:07,427 --> 00:12:11,029
You reach a point where you're
implicitly trusting people with
226
00:12:11,131 --> 00:12:15,266
information, and therefore you
are essentially befriending them
227
00:12:15,368 --> 00:12:17,435
because you only
trust your friends.
228
00:12:17,537 --> 00:12:19,204
Trust was important, since
all of this was illegal
229
00:12:19,306 --> 00:12:20,872
and the heat was on.
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00:12:20,974 --> 00:12:24,275
In 2011, law enforcement around
the world located and arrested
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00:12:24,377 --> 00:12:26,811
several members of
LulzSec and Anonymous,
232
00:12:26,913 --> 00:12:29,447
laying dozens of charges
for their high-profile hacks.
233
00:12:33,286 --> 00:12:34,686
So when the police
turned up at my house,
234
00:12:34,788 --> 00:12:36,187
it was a highly
unpleasant experience.
235
00:12:36,289 --> 00:12:38,890
They kind of gave it
the whole TV treatment,
236
00:12:38,992 --> 00:12:40,225
I guess you could call it.
237
00:12:40,327 --> 00:12:42,927
They sent in the
whole, you know...
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00:12:43,029 --> 00:12:44,529
lots of people
shouting really loudly
239
00:12:44,631 --> 00:12:46,698
with, you know,
firearms and shit.
240
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,234
I guess they were afraid that
laptops were wired to explode
241
00:12:49,336 --> 00:12:51,202
or some crazy shit like that.
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00:12:51,304 --> 00:12:53,638
Or that, you know, I'd have
a delete button which would
243
00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:55,373
make all of the evidence
disappear or something.
244
00:12:55,475 --> 00:12:58,209
Police broke down the
front door, came in,
245
00:12:58,311 --> 00:13:01,446
arrested me in my bed,
handcuffed me in my bed.
246
00:13:03,483 --> 00:13:05,750
They all seemed
so surprised that
247
00:13:05,852 --> 00:13:09,387
my computer and everything
around it was off.
248
00:13:09,489 --> 00:13:10,722
Of course it's off!
249
00:13:10,824 --> 00:13:12,624
It's 7:00 in the f... morning!
250
00:13:12,726 --> 00:13:14,793
(Laughing)
251
00:13:14,895 --> 00:13:16,561
What would you expect?
252
00:13:16,663 --> 00:13:19,097
And me personally, I was
just arrested because...
253
00:13:19,199 --> 00:13:21,065
'Cause you're so pretty!
254
00:13:21,168 --> 00:13:22,600
It's 'cause you're so pretty.
255
00:13:22,702 --> 00:13:24,402
N0 and Keth were arrested,
256
00:13:24,504 --> 00:13:26,638
but narrowly avoided
doing major time.
257
00:13:26,740 --> 00:13:28,640
tflow was too young
to go to prison,
258
00:13:28,742 --> 00:13:30,608
pwnsauce got off with a fine,
259
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:33,211
and Chris spent 4-and-a-half
months behind bars.
260
00:13:33,313 --> 00:13:35,713
But there were much
harsher sentences to come.
261
00:13:38,919 --> 00:13:40,318
BEN: Anonymous was on a roll.
262
00:13:40,420 --> 00:13:44,222
That is, until a series of
arrests in 2011 and 2012.
263
00:13:44,324 --> 00:13:46,157
But for members
of the collective,
264
00:13:46,259 --> 00:13:48,193
there was more
shocking news to come;
265
00:13:48,295 --> 00:13:51,429
many of these arrests were
made possible by an informant.
266
00:13:51,531 --> 00:13:54,732
Hector Xavier Monsegur,
otherwise known as Sabu,
267
00:13:54,835 --> 00:13:57,502
was a vocal member of
Anonymous and LulzSec.
268
00:13:57,604 --> 00:13:59,437
Many considered him a friend.
269
00:13:59,539 --> 00:14:00,672
You met Sabu.
270
00:14:00,774 --> 00:14:02,941
What was that like,
and what was he like?
271
00:14:03,043 --> 00:14:05,577
Sabu is such an
interesting character.
272
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,914
He was really
involved in Anonymous.
273
00:14:10,016 --> 00:14:12,217
He was very charismatic.
274
00:14:12,319 --> 00:14:15,520
His personality online
was larger than life.
275
00:14:15,622 --> 00:14:18,723
It was why he was so
effective as an informant.
276
00:14:18,825 --> 00:14:22,427
Some of his peers and
colleagues, you know,
277
00:14:22,529 --> 00:14:24,262
described him as "legend".
278
00:14:24,364 --> 00:14:28,233
Why do you think he ratted
out his friends and his peers?
279
00:14:28,335 --> 00:14:31,269
Sabu was put in a
difficult situation.
280
00:14:31,371 --> 00:14:36,474
When the FBI showed up at his
house, they basically said,
281
00:14:36,576 --> 00:14:40,812
"Look, work for us or we
will take your foster kids
282
00:14:40,914 --> 00:14:45,149
away from you, and away
from your family entirely."
283
00:14:45,252 --> 00:14:48,286
And he took the deal that
was given to him, and started
284
00:14:48,388 --> 00:14:51,456
almost immediately
to work for the FBI.
285
00:14:51,558 --> 00:14:53,925
Sabu not only led
the FBI to LulzSec,
286
00:14:54,027 --> 00:14:56,494
but to one of Anonymous'
most brilliant hackers,
287
00:14:56,596 --> 00:14:59,297
a 27-year-old
named Jeremy Hammond.
288
00:14:59,399 --> 00:15:00,932
Hammond was the real deal:
289
00:15:01,034 --> 00:15:03,768
a radical anarchist as active
in the streets as he was online;
290
00:15:03,870 --> 00:15:06,938
a hacktivist way before
Anonymous was even a thing.
291
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,607
And we believe that the internet
is a powerful new medium
292
00:15:09,709 --> 00:15:13,244
where just a handful of
people in small groups,
293
00:15:13,346 --> 00:15:15,780
just by shifting data around
in the right directions,
294
00:15:15,882 --> 00:15:17,916
can make big changes
and big damage.
295
00:15:18,018 --> 00:15:21,252
Any method of disruption at
any cost, any means necessary.
296
00:15:21,354 --> 00:15:23,821
Hammond helped
launch Op AntiSec,
297
00:15:23,924 --> 00:15:26,190
which targeted police
departments and what he calls
298
00:15:26,293 --> 00:15:28,626
the national security complex.
299
00:15:28,728 --> 00:15:31,329
Sabu was also a
major player in AntiSec,
300
00:15:31,431 --> 00:15:34,098
all while working for the FBI.
301
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,301
With the feds
watching his every move,
302
00:15:36,403 --> 00:15:38,770
Sabu introduced Hammond to
a hacker who had found a way
303
00:15:38,872 --> 00:15:42,206
into Stratfor, a massive
global intelligence firm.
304
00:15:42,309 --> 00:15:44,609
Hammond then hacked Stratfor,
stealing thousands of
305
00:15:44,711 --> 00:15:46,678
credit card numbers
and millions of emails.
306
00:15:46,780 --> 00:15:48,546
He was arrested for the hack,
307
00:15:48,648 --> 00:15:51,015
and is now serving a 10-year
sentence in federal prison.
308
00:15:51,885 --> 00:15:53,351
VOICE: Dial 5 now.
309
00:15:55,455 --> 00:15:57,055
Yo, what's going on?
You okay?
310
00:15:58,892 --> 00:16:00,825
So just... I'll get right to it.
311
00:16:00,927 --> 00:16:02,527
Why'd you hack Stratfor?
312
00:16:23,750 --> 00:16:25,483
Why don't you
tell me about Sabu.
313
00:16:25,585 --> 00:16:27,952
What was his role in all this?
314
00:16:43,136 --> 00:16:44,836
How'd that make you feel?
315
00:17:16,136 --> 00:17:17,869
BEN: I asked Sabu to tell
his side of the story,
316
00:17:17,971 --> 00:17:20,471
but he declined to
talk to me on the record.
317
00:17:20,573 --> 00:17:22,373
After Hammond hacked Stratfor,
318
00:17:22,475 --> 00:17:24,375
he leaked the company's
emails to WikiLeaks.
319
00:17:24,477 --> 00:17:27,445
The emails revealed Stratfor had
monitored activists worldwide.
320
00:17:28,515 --> 00:17:34,452
WikiLeaks begins its release
of 5,000 emails documenting
321
00:17:34,554 --> 00:17:40,291
the private lives and
private lies of private spies.
322
00:17:41,694 --> 00:17:43,294
But one question still remains:
323
00:17:43,396 --> 00:17:45,396
This whole time, the
FBI had an informant,
324
00:17:45,498 --> 00:17:47,465
so why did it let
Stratfor get hacked?
325
00:17:49,235 --> 00:17:51,069
The FBI could've done
something about that,
326
00:17:51,171 --> 00:17:53,237
they could've prevented all
this damage from happening.
327
00:17:53,339 --> 00:17:55,573
But no, they were more
interested in entrapping people,
328
00:17:55,675 --> 00:17:58,276
and you know, ensnaring
people in doing things.
329
00:17:58,378 --> 00:17:59,911
While they could've
stopped things
330
00:18:00,013 --> 00:18:02,013
and done crime prevention,
instead they thought,
331
00:18:02,115 --> 00:18:03,948
"... it, we're
gonna entrap everyone."
332
00:18:04,050 --> 00:18:06,818
I mean, that... they
completely burned Stratfor.
333
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,754
And you know, the FBI need to
have a good look at themselves
334
00:18:09,856 --> 00:18:13,691
and go, you know, "What... ing
moral high horse do we have
335
00:18:13,793 --> 00:18:16,094
to stand on when we're using
other people as bait?"
336
00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:19,964
After the high-profile arrests
of some of its core members,
337
00:18:20,066 --> 00:18:22,133
Anonymous was at a crossroads.
338
00:18:22,235 --> 00:18:23,568
But that made
some of its hackers
339
00:18:23,670 --> 00:18:25,336
more determined than ever.
340
00:18:27,841 --> 00:18:30,441
BEN: Sabu's betrayal
broke trust within Anonymous.
341
00:18:30,543 --> 00:18:32,743
Anyone can be an informant.
342
00:18:32,846 --> 00:18:34,779
And security expert
Robert Hansen believes
343
00:18:34,881 --> 00:18:36,814
the group has been infiltrated.
344
00:18:36,916 --> 00:18:38,516
I know that there are
certain governments who have
345
00:18:38,618 --> 00:18:40,751
a keen interest at not
only infiltrating them,
346
00:18:40,854 --> 00:18:43,187
but flipping people
inside Anonymous
347
00:18:43,289 --> 00:18:44,856
and turning them
against one another.
348
00:18:44,958 --> 00:18:47,792
And you're saying that
signals intelligence agencies
349
00:18:47,894 --> 00:18:51,329
around the world will try
to compromise Anonymous?
350
00:18:51,431 --> 00:18:52,663
Yes.
351
00:18:52,765 --> 00:18:54,465
Which ones in particular?
352
00:18:54,567 --> 00:18:55,867
At this point, most of them.
353
00:18:55,969 --> 00:18:57,135
(Laughing)
354
00:18:57,237 --> 00:18:59,670
Yeah, I've actually
sat in meetings
355
00:18:59,772 --> 00:19:02,173
where people have actively
talked about doing that.
356
00:19:02,275 --> 00:19:05,610
And not as a "we could",
as in "we are".
357
00:19:05,712 --> 00:19:08,880
So Anonymous is essentially as
clean as a public swimming pool?
358
00:19:08,982 --> 00:19:10,381
(Laughing)
359
00:19:10,483 --> 00:19:11,449
I don't know if
I'd put it that way.
360
00:19:11,551 --> 00:19:12,850
(Laughing)
361
00:19:12,952 --> 00:19:14,952
But what I do know is that
it would be too dangerous
362
00:19:15,054 --> 00:19:16,787
for a guy like me to ever
consider being involved with
363
00:19:16,890 --> 00:19:18,222
at this point.
364
00:19:18,324 --> 00:19:19,357
If I were apart of
Anonymous right now,
365
00:19:19,459 --> 00:19:21,192
I would burn everything
and walk away,
366
00:19:21,294 --> 00:19:22,627
and I would never look back.
367
00:19:24,063 --> 00:19:26,330
But for some, walking
away isn't an option.
368
00:19:26,432 --> 00:19:29,333
Despite the risks, Anonymous
DDoS actions and hacks
369
00:19:29,435 --> 00:19:30,902
continue across the globe.
370
00:19:33,239 --> 00:19:35,706
What do you say to people that
say Anonymous is flaming out?
371
00:19:37,277 --> 00:19:38,442
Why not?
372
00:19:38,545 --> 00:19:40,144
(Laughing)
373
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:49,153
Bio could go to jail if
his identity is revealed.
374
00:19:49,255 --> 00:19:52,423
He took part in DDoS attacks on
Canadian government websites,
375
00:19:52,525 --> 00:19:56,194
protesting an anti-terrorism
bill known as C-51.
376
00:19:56,296 --> 00:19:58,229
The legislation gives
the government broader
377
00:19:58,331 --> 00:20:01,165
surveillance powers, sparking
concerns about privacy abuse.
378
00:20:02,602 --> 00:20:04,335
Are you gonna escalate
your attacks on Canada?
379
00:20:04,437 --> 00:20:06,237
Are you gonna go
after more stuff?
380
00:20:20,687 --> 00:20:21,919
As a terrorist?
381
00:20:26,926 --> 00:20:28,459
(Laughing)
382
00:20:32,365 --> 00:20:33,564
Right.
383
00:20:38,004 --> 00:20:40,638
If you put your chances of
going to jail in a percentage,
384
00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:41,606
what would it be?
385
00:20:41,708 --> 00:20:42,773
(Laughing)
386
00:21:12,405 --> 00:21:14,305
If you could go back and
do it all again, would you?
387
00:21:14,407 --> 00:21:16,240
Would I have had those ideas?
388
00:21:16,342 --> 00:21:17,775
Probably.
389
00:21:17,877 --> 00:21:20,244
Would I have gotten
involved with Anonymous?
390
00:21:20,346 --> 00:21:21,579
Probably.
391
00:21:21,681 --> 00:21:23,748
Would I have ended
up running servers?
392
00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:25,416
Highly likely.
393
00:21:25,518 --> 00:21:28,286
Therefore, would I still be
in the situation I'm in now?
394
00:21:28,388 --> 00:21:29,920
Very likely.
395
00:21:31,224 --> 00:21:32,990
How does this end
personally for you?
396
00:21:49,709 --> 00:21:52,610
At its best, Anonymous has
embarrassed those in power,
397
00:21:52,712 --> 00:21:54,445
taunting them, paralyzing them,
398
00:21:54,547 --> 00:21:56,213
and spilling their
secrets online.
399
00:21:56,316 --> 00:21:58,115
As much an idea as a collective,
400
00:21:58,217 --> 00:22:00,318
concerted campaigns
by law enforcement
401
00:22:00,420 --> 00:22:03,354
could weaken and demoralize,
but not destroy it.
402
00:22:03,456 --> 00:22:05,923
And so Anonymous lives on.
403
00:22:15,001 --> 00:22:16,367
Thanks a lot, and I really
appreciate you taking the time
404
00:22:16,469 --> 00:22:17,868
to talk to us.
405
00:22:17,970 --> 00:22:19,003
Take it easy.
30930
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