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1
00:00:45,875 --> 00:00:47,625
Hello? Hello.
2
00:00:55,667 --> 00:01:01,125
My name's Hannah, and I'm auditioning
for the role of JonBenet Ramsey.
3
00:01:02,375 --> 00:01:05,792
Do you know who killed JonBenet Ramsey?
4
00:01:52,667 --> 00:01:56,667
All units, 755 15th Street.
Possible 207.
5
00:01:57,500 --> 00:01:59,583
Copy. Kidnapping?
6
00:01:59,667 --> 00:02:00,958
That's what they said.
7
00:02:08,042 --> 00:02:10,417
All right, do you want me to do a test,
or are you good?
8
00:02:12,458 --> 00:02:16,125
Hello, I'm Amy Dowd, and I'm auditioning
for the role of Patsy Ramsey.
9
00:02:17,167 --> 00:02:21,333
My name is Teresa, and I'm auditioning
for the role of Patsy Ramsey.
10
00:02:21,417 --> 00:02:25,250
As far as acting goes,
I'm not a professional actress.
11
00:02:25,667 --> 00:02:27,625
I have been in pageants.
12
00:02:28,833 --> 00:02:33,458
In 1982, 1983, 1984 and 1985.
13
00:02:33,542 --> 00:02:36,958
I'm normally typecast
as the loving mother,
14
00:02:37,042 --> 00:02:40,667
and then also as... a bitch.
15
00:02:41,833 --> 00:02:46,542
Usually Mom, or the friend,
is what I've played.
16
00:02:46,625 --> 00:02:47,792
A wife.
17
00:02:47,875 --> 00:02:50,708
Okay, so I just brought a couple
of my pageant pictures.
18
00:02:50,792 --> 00:02:53,833
Again, this was two years ago
with the Mrs. Colorado pageant
19
00:02:53,917 --> 00:02:57,500
and the one thing I have quite
in common with Patsy is,
20
00:02:57,583 --> 00:03:00,292
both of us are not the really thin girls.
We're a little bit heavier.
21
00:03:00,375 --> 00:03:02,542
So this was when I was in New York,
22
00:03:02,625 --> 00:03:04,083
and, um,
23
00:03:04,167 --> 00:03:09,833
it was 19... 88,
I believe this was taken.
24
00:03:09,917 --> 00:03:13,500
I noticed that you had some of the other
women who are auditioning for Patsy
25
00:03:13,583 --> 00:03:15,167
wearing the red top,
26
00:03:15,250 --> 00:03:20,375
but for me, it's the pearls
that make who Patsy was.
27
00:03:20,458 --> 00:03:23,792
In every interview she did,
she always had the pearls on.
28
00:03:23,875 --> 00:03:27,750
So when I was researching her
I made sure that the pearls were on.
29
00:03:27,833 --> 00:03:29,750
She always wore these kind of earrings.
30
00:03:29,833 --> 00:03:31,417
I didn't have one with a pearl in it,
31
00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:33,958
but these were really close
to what she was wearing.
32
00:03:34,042 --> 00:03:37,375
And she always wore
the open collar shirt and the jacket.
33
00:03:37,458 --> 00:03:39,917
This is very close
to what she wore on Larry King.
34
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,167
My mom lives up Flagstaff Road,
35
00:03:42,250 --> 00:03:44,708
which is,
if you've ever been up Flagstaff,
36
00:03:44,792 --> 00:03:47,792
it starts out as Baseline Road.
37
00:03:48,208 --> 00:03:50,333
So to come down the mountain
and go into town,
38
00:03:50,417 --> 00:03:54,875
unless you cut off at 9th Street,
you literally drove by 15th Street,
39
00:03:54,958 --> 00:03:57,583
and that's where
the Ramsey house is located.
40
00:03:58,667 --> 00:04:00,792
It was a media circus.
41
00:04:01,792 --> 00:04:06,708
It was the biggest thing to really happen
to Boulder in a very long time.
42
00:04:07,708 --> 00:04:11,292
Definitely, we'd never had a murder,
43
00:04:11,375 --> 00:04:15,500
especially of that... caliber
that I could remember.
44
00:04:15,583 --> 00:04:18,917
I actually drove up to the house
the day after the murder,
45
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,750
'cause I live not that far,
46
00:04:20,833 --> 00:04:23,667
and just sat there, and I cried.
47
00:04:23,750 --> 00:04:25,458
I said a little prayer for the child.
48
00:04:25,542 --> 00:04:28,958
Some of my voice students knew JonBenet,
49
00:04:29,042 --> 00:04:32,458
and they were devastated and sad.
50
00:04:32,542 --> 00:04:34,208
As an actress,
51
00:04:34,292 --> 00:04:37,333
I would really draw
on my experience as a mother,
52
00:04:37,875 --> 00:04:41,667
and I've been through an awful lot
with my son.
53
00:04:41,750 --> 00:04:44,792
And just thinking about
the things I've been through,
54
00:04:45,542 --> 00:04:46,625
in that he's older.
55
00:04:46,708 --> 00:04:51,083
He's been in the Marine Corps,
and some of the experiences are...
56
00:04:52,250 --> 00:04:54,583
I have personal experience with murder.
57
00:04:54,667 --> 00:04:57,750
My brother was murdered
in Colorado Springs,
58
00:04:57,833 --> 00:05:02,750
so my parents actually met
with the Ramseys several times,
59
00:05:03,375 --> 00:05:05,208
because they had that in common.
60
00:05:07,083 --> 00:05:09,958
And there was so much speculation.
So much.
61
00:05:10,042 --> 00:05:12,625
And everybody pointed their finger
at Patsy.
62
00:05:19,042 --> 00:05:20,625
Did you say he was reading with me?
63
00:05:20,708 --> 00:05:22,042
Police.
64
00:05:22,958 --> 00:05:25,750
755, 15th Street.
65
00:05:25,833 --> 00:05:28,417
We have a kidnapping. Hurry, please!
66
00:05:28,500 --> 00:05:30,542
A note is left
and your daughter's gone?
67
00:05:30,625 --> 00:05:33,292
- Yes.
- How old is your daughter, ma'am?
68
00:05:33,375 --> 00:05:37,542
She's six years old.
She's blonde. She's six years old.
69
00:05:37,625 --> 00:05:39,250
Six years old.
70
00:05:39,333 --> 00:05:40,750
How long ago was this?
71
00:05:41,583 --> 00:05:45,083
I don't know. I just got the note,
and my daughter's gone.
72
00:05:45,708 --> 00:05:48,083
- Okay, what's your name?
- What?
73
00:05:48,167 --> 00:05:50,292
- Please.
- Okay, calm down.
74
00:05:52,458 --> 00:05:55,792
- Please send someone to help me. Hurry.
- Ma'am...
75
00:06:11,292 --> 00:06:14,833
- Morning.
- Yeah, Merry Christmas.
76
00:06:26,542 --> 00:06:28,333
So you want my name
and then the part?
77
00:06:28,417 --> 00:06:31,250
- Yeah.
- There we are. Thank you.
78
00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:36,500
Hi, I'm Hack Hyland.
79
00:06:36,583 --> 00:06:40,333
Hi, I'm Gary Foster. I'm auditioning
for the part of John Ramsey.
80
00:06:40,417 --> 00:06:44,208
Hi, my name is Ed Hickok. I'm auditioning
for the role of John Ramsey.
81
00:06:45,458 --> 00:06:49,333
I'm a husband, times 30 years tomorrow,
82
00:06:49,917 --> 00:06:51,875
a father of three,
83
00:06:51,958 --> 00:06:54,625
a psychologist in private practice,
84
00:06:54,708 --> 00:06:58,708
and a felon, because of fighting the IRS.
85
00:06:58,792 --> 00:07:02,958
And it was while I was cooling my heels
at the federal prison camp
86
00:07:03,042 --> 00:07:07,458
that I decided that when I got out,
that I wanted to try my hand at acting.
87
00:07:07,542 --> 00:07:09,875
Yeah, it's a paid theater.
It was with Theatre Or.
88
00:07:09,958 --> 00:07:12,833
It was called My Mother's
Jewish Lesbian Wiccan Wedding.
89
00:07:12,917 --> 00:07:14,375
It was the regional premiere.
90
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,000
I get Nick Nolte. I get Jeff Bridges.
91
00:07:19,083 --> 00:07:23,333
I get a young... What's his name?
Kris Kristofferson.
92
00:07:23,417 --> 00:07:26,250
If you want to change, like,
if you wanted to dye my hair,
93
00:07:26,333 --> 00:07:28,375
or shave my head for a wig...
94
00:07:28,458 --> 00:07:31,542
I don't care what you want to do.
I don't have a problem with it.
95
00:07:31,625 --> 00:07:34,625
I'm trying to remember.
'96, I believe, wasn't it?
96
00:07:34,708 --> 00:07:36,792
When she died, I think.
97
00:07:36,875 --> 00:07:39,167
Six years old in 1996.
98
00:07:41,208 --> 00:07:43,958
Let me see where I was in '96. Boy!
99
00:07:45,458 --> 00:07:47,917
Actually, I was selling cars in Utah.
100
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,917
I mean, I hope that doesn't
hurt my chances here, but...
101
00:07:51,958 --> 00:07:55,875
I had just moved here
literally weeks before,
102
00:07:56,417 --> 00:08:00,875
and I was working out in what would
end up being my ex-brother-in-law's gym.
103
00:08:00,958 --> 00:08:04,208
I was personal training in his facility.
104
00:08:04,292 --> 00:08:06,292
And I remember, it was just a big stir.
105
00:08:06,375 --> 00:08:08,333
I mean, it was on the news constantly,
106
00:08:08,417 --> 00:08:10,750
and everybody was talking about it.
107
00:08:11,833 --> 00:08:13,417
Tragic story. Horrible.
108
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,417
John's company was in Boulder.
109
00:08:16,917 --> 00:08:20,667
The woman I was dating at the time
worked directly for John.
110
00:08:20,750 --> 00:08:25,792
In fact, she was in line
to be his successor.
111
00:08:25,875 --> 00:08:28,250
And he relied on her heavily,
112
00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:32,833
so I was with her the night of the murder,
113
00:08:32,917 --> 00:08:34,708
and I was effectively her alibi,
114
00:08:34,792 --> 00:08:37,542
but they also did hair
and samples from her,
115
00:08:37,625 --> 00:08:43,042
because, you know,
she had something to gain by John's loss.
116
00:08:43,625 --> 00:08:47,167
But she was cleared, and I knew that
'cause I was with her.
117
00:08:47,792 --> 00:08:50,500
He is a confident businessman.
118
00:08:50,583 --> 00:08:53,458
He's an intelligent guy.
He's got a good education.
119
00:08:53,542 --> 00:08:54,917
He's at the top of his game.
120
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,833
He owns a small company
that even owns a private airplane.
121
00:08:58,917 --> 00:09:01,500
John Ramsey was a very successful man.
122
00:09:02,250 --> 00:09:03,875
And I respect that.
123
00:09:04,792 --> 00:09:09,000
He seemed always straightforward
and honest in the interviews that I saw.
124
00:09:09,083 --> 00:09:11,292
I envied him at the time,
125
00:09:11,375 --> 00:09:14,958
because he was the CEO
of a very successful company
126
00:09:15,042 --> 00:09:19,000
and I was trying
to make my way up the ladder,
127
00:09:19,083 --> 00:09:22,792
so I thought he was...
I thought he had it all.
128
00:09:24,292 --> 00:09:28,208
It's the morning of the 26th.
December 26th.
129
00:09:28,292 --> 00:09:30,333
And they find the ransom note,
130
00:09:30,417 --> 00:09:32,458
"We have your daughter.
Don't call the police."
131
00:09:32,542 --> 00:09:36,083
And they... they called the police.
132
00:09:36,667 --> 00:09:39,125
It was after the police
investigated the house,
133
00:09:39,208 --> 00:09:41,417
and then John Ramsey and...
134
00:09:42,042 --> 00:09:44,500
was it the police,
were searching the house?
135
00:09:44,583 --> 00:09:46,917
So him and his friend
walked down the basement,
136
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,042
and they went through the train room
'cause he was big into trains,
137
00:09:50,125 --> 00:09:53,333
and that's when they opened the door
to the wine cellar
138
00:09:53,417 --> 00:09:55,792
and saw her covered
in her favorite white blanket.
139
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:43,167
And go.
140
00:11:45,833 --> 00:11:47,667
Good day, my name is RJ Clay,
141
00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:50,708
and I'm here auditioning
for the part of the police chief,
142
00:11:50,792 --> 00:11:55,167
but if I fit any other part perfectly,
I would be willing to take that as well.
143
00:11:55,875 --> 00:11:57,792
So I'm a Denver policeman.
144
00:11:57,875 --> 00:12:00,917
I've been a police officer since 1994.
145
00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:04,167
I'm actually a meat manager
for King Soopers,
146
00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:08,375
which is a grocery store chain out here
in Colorado.
147
00:12:08,458 --> 00:12:11,333
Well, I'm currently
a fugitive recovery agent.
148
00:12:11,417 --> 00:12:14,625
I run a small service
out of Longmont, Colorado.
149
00:12:16,542 --> 00:12:21,083
And for a night job, I am a sex educator.
150
00:12:22,042 --> 00:12:24,375
I do a lot of corporate gigs, barbecues,
151
00:12:24,458 --> 00:12:26,792
and I'm a big wedding guy,
152
00:12:26,875 --> 00:12:29,417
'cause I actually will interview
the bride and groom
153
00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:32,667
and I'll write a song just for them,
play it at their ceremony.
154
00:12:33,250 --> 00:12:36,750
A normal flogger,
you use the handle as a counterbalance,
155
00:12:37,750 --> 00:12:39,208
and you can swing.
156
00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:40,917
Right?
157
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,208
A poi flogger is designed
to be used with two hands,
158
00:12:45,333 --> 00:12:48,292
and these are designed to florentine,
159
00:12:48,375 --> 00:12:51,667
which is a way to give light sensation.
160
00:12:52,250 --> 00:12:55,708
But it takes a little coordination.
I don't know if I can do this sitting.
161
00:12:59,417 --> 00:13:01,542
And it gives a very light sensation.
162
00:13:01,625 --> 00:13:06,333
Hand me the rainbow-colored handle.
Yeah, with the... just one of 'em.
163
00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:10,125
So I got interested
in this particular case
164
00:13:10,208 --> 00:13:14,375
because it occurred
when I was a police officer in Chicago.
165
00:13:14,458 --> 00:13:18,625
And we used the investigation techniques
from the Boulder Police Department
166
00:13:18,708 --> 00:13:21,583
as a "how not to" for our cadets.
167
00:13:22,375 --> 00:13:25,917
As a matter of fact, we used it last night
to debrief an incident that we had,
168
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,958
where a couple of skinheads
stabbed each other.
169
00:13:30,542 --> 00:13:31,833
Well, first of all,
170
00:13:31,917 --> 00:13:36,375
they didn't keep track of people coming
and going through the house.
171
00:13:36,458 --> 00:13:39,583
Virtually anybody who wanted
to walk in that house after the crime
172
00:13:39,667 --> 00:13:41,000
was allowed to.
173
00:13:41,708 --> 00:13:45,833
So the evidence was compromised
in all sorts of ways.
174
00:13:45,917 --> 00:13:48,417
And the ransom note.
175
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:50,333
I read that and...
176
00:13:51,708 --> 00:13:53,333
it's incredible.
177
00:13:53,417 --> 00:13:58,083
It's incredible that nobody's been charged
with anything on that.
178
00:13:58,167 --> 00:14:02,542
It seems to me like...
it was pretty clear.
179
00:14:04,125 --> 00:14:07,042
Well, the first thing, right away, is,
180
00:14:07,125 --> 00:14:10,417
it was a three-page ransom note
that was handwritten.
181
00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:13,667
And most people are in a hurry
when they're doing a crime.
182
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:17,333
They're not going to sit down
after murdering some young little girl.
183
00:14:17,833 --> 00:14:21,125
First of all, they go out
and find the paper and the pen
184
00:14:21,208 --> 00:14:24,042
they thought was from inside the home.
185
00:14:24,125 --> 00:14:27,417
So they're not going to sit there
and write a three-page handwritten letter,
186
00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:30,083
thinking out all this fun stuff
that's in the letter.
187
00:14:30,167 --> 00:14:33,958
If you're a criminal wanting to do
an in-and-out kind of kidnapping,
188
00:14:34,042 --> 00:14:37,708
who takes the time to write out
two and a half pages of a ransom note?
189
00:14:37,792 --> 00:14:41,708
That's a little ridiculous.
190
00:14:42,625 --> 00:14:47,958
They say, "We are a group of individuals
that represent a small foreign faction."
191
00:14:49,083 --> 00:14:50,333
I don't know what that means
192
00:14:50,417 --> 00:14:53,333
and I don't think, to this day,
the police know what that means.
193
00:14:53,417 --> 00:14:56,333
It almost seems like,
in places, it shows concern.
194
00:14:56,417 --> 00:14:58,708
I mean, in certain places,
they're really nasty.
195
00:14:58,792 --> 00:15:02,000
They say, "We're going to behead her.
We'll kill her."
196
00:15:02,083 --> 00:15:04,708
But in other places, they say things like,
197
00:15:04,792 --> 00:15:08,042
"Make sure to bring along
a big enough attaché."
198
00:15:08,708 --> 00:15:12,458
And in one spot they said,
"Make sure you're rested,
199
00:15:12,542 --> 00:15:15,625
because it's going to be
an arduous sort of procedure
200
00:15:15,708 --> 00:15:17,583
to get her back."
201
00:15:18,167 --> 00:15:21,458
Then the next big thing,
obviously, is the dollar amount.
202
00:15:22,167 --> 00:15:24,875
Any type of a kidnapper
is gonna want a million bucks
203
00:15:24,958 --> 00:15:28,042
or 100,000 or a quarter-million.
204
00:15:28,125 --> 00:15:32,833
They don't list $118,000 specifically.
205
00:15:32,917 --> 00:15:37,375
They asked for $118,000.
Exactly that amount.
206
00:15:37,458 --> 00:15:44,083
Which was the same amount
of John's bonus, Christmas bonus.
207
00:15:44,167 --> 00:15:47,375
The ransom note also came
from inside their house, on notepads.
208
00:15:47,458 --> 00:15:50,208
And the pen that was used
was the Ramseys'.
209
00:15:50,833 --> 00:15:54,167
For me personally, I love breast torture.
210
00:15:54,667 --> 00:15:57,000
Whipping nipples, tits...
211
00:15:57,875 --> 00:16:02,042
doing breast bondage, as well as
arm sleeves and stuff along those lines.
212
00:16:02,125 --> 00:16:03,750
Hold on a second.
213
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:09,875
I've got to take this. It's work.
Give me five minutes.
214
00:16:16,708 --> 00:16:18,625
- Just whenever?
- Yeah.
215
00:16:21,667 --> 00:16:23,958
Hey, Robert. It's Mark.
216
00:16:24,542 --> 00:16:29,167
I got the coroner's report.
I'm faxing it over right now, so...
217
00:16:31,583 --> 00:16:34,750
You know, what I can tell you is that...
218
00:16:35,250 --> 00:16:39,458
she died from asphyxiation
by strangulation.
219
00:16:40,583 --> 00:16:42,542
There was also...
220
00:16:43,833 --> 00:16:47,500
some sort of head wound
that occurred.
221
00:16:48,542 --> 00:16:52,625
That likely occurred
before the strangulation.
222
00:16:54,667 --> 00:16:56,292
Right, right.
223
00:16:56,375 --> 00:17:01,208
Well, she was laying
on her back on the floor,
224
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,167
covered by a blanket,
225
00:17:04,250 --> 00:17:07,042
and... yeah.
226
00:17:09,333 --> 00:17:12,583
Ligature marks on the wrist,
227
00:17:13,167 --> 00:17:15,958
and... yeah.
228
00:17:17,875 --> 00:17:21,167
All right.
Well, I'm gonna fax it over to you.
229
00:17:21,792 --> 00:17:23,750
Okay. I've got to go.
230
00:17:24,375 --> 00:17:25,833
All right. Thanks.
231
00:17:28,417 --> 00:17:31,042
All right. How's everything else?
232
00:17:31,583 --> 00:17:33,292
Wife and kids good?
233
00:17:34,542 --> 00:17:36,208
Good, good.
234
00:17:36,292 --> 00:17:37,917
Holidays are going well?
235
00:17:44,208 --> 00:17:46,417
The JonBenet Ramsey case
236
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:49,042
is a case like we have never seen before,
237
00:17:49,125 --> 00:17:52,750
a case like I don't think any
of you have ever seen before.
238
00:17:53,375 --> 00:17:55,792
There have been many stories
and much speculation
239
00:17:55,875 --> 00:17:57,875
about who killed JonBenet.
240
00:17:57,958 --> 00:18:01,208
Prejudging and media hype
have never solved a crime.
241
00:18:01,292 --> 00:18:04,167
The reality of the situation
is that often
242
00:18:04,250 --> 00:18:07,000
these types of investigations take time.
243
00:18:07,083 --> 00:18:10,375
Are the Ramseys still the focus
of this investigation
244
00:18:10,458 --> 00:18:13,625
or have they been elevated
to the status of suspects?
245
00:18:14,250 --> 00:18:16,167
No comment.
No more questions.
246
00:18:16,250 --> 00:18:17,917
Was Patsy involved?
247
00:18:29,958 --> 00:18:32,167
This is Patsy writing? Okay.
248
00:18:32,750 --> 00:18:35,667
Let me just read it real quick.
"The pink cowboy sweetheart costume."
249
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:39,125
"The pink cowboy sweetheart costume
250
00:18:39,208 --> 00:18:42,917
was made out of some polyester fabric
I bought in Atlanta.
251
00:18:43,708 --> 00:18:46,708
I doctored up
the white cowgirl hat and boots.
252
00:18:47,250 --> 00:18:48,542
It was precious."
253
00:18:49,042 --> 00:18:50,458
"It was precious.
254
00:18:52,958 --> 00:18:55,458
That summer, JonBenet went prepared.
255
00:18:55,542 --> 00:18:57,042
I could give her that.
256
00:18:57,750 --> 00:19:00,625
I couldn't give her the stage presence
that God gave her.
257
00:19:00,708 --> 00:19:02,292
That was a gift."
258
00:19:03,667 --> 00:19:09,500
"JonBenet was looking forward to the day
she could wear real evening gowns,
259
00:19:09,583 --> 00:19:11,417
just like her mother."
260
00:19:12,542 --> 00:19:14,042
"Just like her mother."
261
00:19:15,875 --> 00:19:18,875
It is so narcissistic. I'm just shocked.
262
00:19:18,958 --> 00:19:22,500
I don't remember that. I read this book,
and I don't remember it.
263
00:19:23,583 --> 00:19:24,750
Wow.
264
00:19:25,625 --> 00:19:28,417
She was no longer doing
the beauty queen thing.
265
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:30,292
She'd gotten too old.
266
00:19:30,375 --> 00:19:34,625
And so this was her opportunity
to live it again through her daughter.
267
00:19:34,708 --> 00:19:38,500
The little girl really loved it.
From what we can tell, she loved it.
268
00:19:38,583 --> 00:19:42,583
She was not forced into it. It was not,
"You have to go do this."
269
00:19:42,667 --> 00:19:44,125
She really loved it.
270
00:19:44,208 --> 00:19:50,458
So it kind of feels like a...
a legacy thing for Patsy, actually.
271
00:19:51,958 --> 00:19:54,125
I know a lot
of people think that's weird,
272
00:19:54,208 --> 00:19:58,917
to have a little girl dressed up
where she looks like a 20-year-old woman.
273
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,708
But that's the pageant system.
274
00:20:01,792 --> 00:20:05,417
And a lot of those girls go on
to do great things...
275
00:20:06,042 --> 00:20:07,500
or work at Hooters.
276
00:20:09,708 --> 00:20:11,250
From what...
277
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,375
I heard and kind of put together...
278
00:20:18,375 --> 00:20:23,375
it sounded like...
that family was really screwed up.
279
00:20:24,292 --> 00:20:26,292
Patsy was at least involved.
280
00:20:26,375 --> 00:20:28,625
I'm not sure if she did it.
281
00:20:30,042 --> 00:20:34,083
I hope she didn't,
but I think she might have.
282
00:20:37,417 --> 00:20:39,125
She just made me angry.
283
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:41,417
Watching her...
284
00:20:42,958 --> 00:20:44,333
Listening to her
285
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,917
and then her husband...
286
00:20:48,375 --> 00:20:50,708
I think he's the innocent one.
287
00:20:51,333 --> 00:20:53,792
I don't believe he was involved
in any way.
288
00:20:56,125 --> 00:20:58,708
I just think he's innocent.
289
00:20:59,333 --> 00:21:03,250
The more manic side
of this whole situation
290
00:21:03,333 --> 00:21:04,958
seemed to come from Patsy's side.
291
00:21:05,042 --> 00:21:09,250
She seems more inclined to be the one
that might have struck someone in anger
292
00:21:09,333 --> 00:21:11,000
than John does.
293
00:21:11,083 --> 00:21:15,458
More than anything, I think it was
the ransom note that was written,
294
00:21:15,542 --> 00:21:21,042
that handwriting experts said
she most likely wrote.
295
00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:24,417
I found that pretty interesting
296
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:27,917
because I've had my handwriting analyzed.
297
00:21:28,375 --> 00:21:32,625
And it was fascinating,
because I wasn't there.
298
00:21:32,708 --> 00:21:36,333
It was an ex-boyfriend
who showed this handwriting expert...
299
00:21:37,250 --> 00:21:39,750
a birthday card that I gave him.
300
00:21:39,833 --> 00:21:42,750
But this expert could actually tell
301
00:21:42,833 --> 00:21:46,458
that I had had a trauma
to my right ankle.
302
00:21:46,542 --> 00:21:50,000
And sure enough, I had
reconstructive surgery on my right ankle.
303
00:21:50,083 --> 00:21:52,125
Why would... She has no motive.
304
00:21:52,208 --> 00:21:55,167
I'm frustrated as a parent.
I'm frustrated with my kids.
305
00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:58,792
There's no motive to kill them.
There's no motive to do that.
306
00:21:58,875 --> 00:22:00,667
I could see the jealousy aspect.
307
00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:04,708
Since Patsy Ramsey was
a beauty pageant queen herself,
308
00:22:06,042 --> 00:22:08,708
maybe her daughter was having
a little bit more success
309
00:22:08,792 --> 00:22:10,958
or wasn't listening to her.
310
00:22:11,042 --> 00:22:12,458
You know, I don't know
311
00:22:12,542 --> 00:22:16,875
if Patsy Ramsey's background was
any mental illness or anything like that,
312
00:22:16,958 --> 00:22:19,417
but of course we know she died of cancer.
313
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:24,208
And sometimes, when there's disease,
there's dis-ease.
314
00:22:24,833 --> 00:22:26,875
And then we heard about the bed-wetting,
315
00:22:26,958 --> 00:22:31,292
and the general discord in the family,
316
00:22:31,375 --> 00:22:33,792
and we were...
317
00:22:33,875 --> 00:22:37,000
That's why everybody was thinking
it had to be in the family.
318
00:22:37,083 --> 00:22:39,750
You know, JonBenet Ramsey
was a bed-wetter,
319
00:22:39,833 --> 00:22:43,417
and I know that
there had been people interviewed
320
00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:47,000
that said that that
had infuriated Patsy Ramsey.
321
00:22:47,083 --> 00:22:50,708
And she wet her bed, actually, that night.
322
00:22:51,333 --> 00:22:54,167
There was one article
I remember reading just recently,
323
00:22:54,250 --> 00:22:58,875
and it identified Patsy
as the lead suspect,
324
00:22:58,958 --> 00:23:02,542
and went so far as
to say she murdered her daughter.
325
00:23:02,625 --> 00:23:06,250
And what it cited
that incited so much rage in me
326
00:23:06,333 --> 00:23:09,917
was that the stressors
that Patsy was under...
327
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,083
one of them being the holidays,
328
00:23:13,167 --> 00:23:17,750
and another one being
her impending 40th birthday.
329
00:23:17,833 --> 00:23:20,042
And I'll be 39 next month,
330
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:22,500
and if someone said
331
00:23:22,583 --> 00:23:26,958
that my impending 40th birthday
caused me so much psychic strain
332
00:23:27,042 --> 00:23:29,250
that I would consider killing my child...
333
00:23:29,833 --> 00:23:32,958
I don't know what shade of ballistic
I would go on them,
334
00:23:33,042 --> 00:23:36,208
because talk about putting women in a box.
335
00:23:36,792 --> 00:23:38,708
I mean, the mother had to do it.
336
00:23:39,208 --> 00:23:42,042
She was about to turn 40.
She's jealous.
337
00:23:42,125 --> 00:23:44,917
Her little girl was frustrating.
She wet the bed.
338
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,250
Maybe it was an accident.
339
00:23:46,333 --> 00:23:47,958
She threw her against the tub...
340
00:23:48,875 --> 00:23:50,333
and then covered it up.
341
00:23:50,417 --> 00:23:53,875
You know, people are quick to judge.
342
00:23:53,958 --> 00:23:57,375
They talk about how
they were so upset and all the pain,
343
00:23:57,458 --> 00:24:01,458
but, like, you don't see any of it
in their face, at all.
344
00:24:01,542 --> 00:24:03,792
You know, I don't know why no tears fell.
345
00:24:03,875 --> 00:24:07,958
I think... was she detached?
Did she ever really love her little girl?
346
00:24:08,042 --> 00:24:10,583
You don't know how you're gonna react.
347
00:24:11,083 --> 00:24:14,875
My personal reaction was quite violent.
348
00:24:14,958 --> 00:24:17,458
I screamed. I cried.
349
00:24:17,542 --> 00:24:22,375
My parents told me in the back of a car,
and I remember just screaming,
350
00:24:22,458 --> 00:24:24,667
"Who killed my brother?
Who killed my brother?"
351
00:24:25,208 --> 00:24:27,875
At that point in time,
we didn't even know he was murdered.
352
00:24:27,958 --> 00:24:29,542
We just knew he was dead.
353
00:24:29,625 --> 00:24:33,500
But I had
this just overwhelming impression
354
00:24:33,583 --> 00:24:36,000
that it was not a natural death,
355
00:24:36,083 --> 00:24:37,917
and it was not an accident.
356
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,208
I was screaming so loud that people
actually came out of the building
357
00:24:41,292 --> 00:24:42,792
to see what was going on.
358
00:24:42,875 --> 00:24:44,750
So that was my reaction.
359
00:24:45,792 --> 00:24:50,667
I watched my parents.
It was far more subtle and private.
360
00:25:02,792 --> 00:25:04,792
Push your chair in a little bit, Gary.
361
00:25:04,875 --> 00:25:07,167
Is Gary "John"? Okay.
362
00:25:07,708 --> 00:25:09,833
- Hi, John.
- Patsy.
363
00:25:20,083 --> 00:25:22,833
- Hi, nice to see you.
- Hi. J. Michael Sterling.
364
00:25:22,917 --> 00:25:24,708
- Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.
365
00:25:27,125 --> 00:25:31,583
- It is like, us against the world.
- It is, yeah. Absolutely.
366
00:25:31,667 --> 00:25:35,750
I mean, they're both raw. Still.
I mean, it's still so new.
367
00:25:35,833 --> 00:25:40,625
If I was being interviewed with my wife
about something like that,
368
00:25:40,708 --> 00:25:42,708
I'd have my arm around her.
369
00:25:42,792 --> 00:25:45,750
I'd be holding her hand.
I'd be consoling her.
370
00:25:45,833 --> 00:25:48,292
I don't recall seeing them do that.
371
00:25:49,458 --> 00:25:51,500
You know,
they were never really too close.
372
00:25:51,583 --> 00:25:54,708
Like, they weren't like this, or...
373
00:25:54,792 --> 00:25:58,625
I mean, but I might just angle in.
374
00:26:05,167 --> 00:26:07,333
I don't think I would angle in.
375
00:26:07,417 --> 00:26:11,458
There's a separation, and even
sitting here setting up for the scene,
376
00:26:11,542 --> 00:26:13,875
it's like we would
naturally be sitting closer.
377
00:26:13,958 --> 00:26:17,875
I did not... I mean, I said hello and then
I tried to not make eye contact with you
378
00:26:17,958 --> 00:26:20,833
'cause I wanted to keep no conversation.
379
00:26:22,333 --> 00:26:24,583
- Exactly. Like, "We have a job to do."
- Right.
380
00:26:24,667 --> 00:26:27,333
Although we're friends on Facebook
or something, right?
381
00:26:27,417 --> 00:26:29,375
- I was like, "Oh, my God!"
- I know!
382
00:26:29,458 --> 00:26:32,083
- "I've never met you. Cool."
- We finally meet in person!
383
00:26:36,042 --> 00:26:38,125
To those of you who may want to ask,
384
00:26:38,208 --> 00:26:40,542
let me address very directly.
385
00:26:40,625 --> 00:26:43,417
I did not kill my daughter JonBenet.
386
00:26:44,417 --> 00:26:48,583
There have also been innuendos
that she has been or was...
387
00:26:49,792 --> 00:26:51,542
sexually molested.
388
00:26:53,417 --> 00:26:58,417
Those were the most hurtful innuendos
to us as a family.
389
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:01,542
I can tell you those were
the most hurtful innuendos
390
00:27:01,625 --> 00:27:03,708
to us as a family.
391
00:27:03,792 --> 00:27:05,542
They are totally false.
392
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,458
I'm appalled either John or I
could have been involved
393
00:27:09,542 --> 00:27:12,708
in such a hideous, heinous crime.
394
00:27:12,792 --> 00:27:14,625
But let me assure you
395
00:27:15,208 --> 00:27:17,625
that I did not kill JonBenet.
396
00:27:18,625 --> 00:27:21,250
I did not have anything to do with it.
397
00:27:21,333 --> 00:27:25,750
I loved that child
with my whole heart and soul.
398
00:27:28,667 --> 00:27:30,500
Oh, man.
399
00:27:30,583 --> 00:27:34,583
How do you go on camera
and say these lines,
400
00:27:35,375 --> 00:27:37,208
and make them look real?
401
00:27:40,333 --> 00:27:43,625
The funny thing is, when you watch them
talking about this it works either way.
402
00:27:43,708 --> 00:27:45,458
It does. It does!
403
00:27:45,542 --> 00:27:48,458
- You can say, "Okay, they're lying."
- Yeah.
404
00:27:48,542 --> 00:27:52,292
- "They're telling the truth."
- "Look at the body language." Yeah.
405
00:27:53,625 --> 00:27:55,417
I mean, it's just hard to say.
406
00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:58,167
It just... it's hard to say.
407
00:27:58,250 --> 00:28:01,125
I mean, a lot of their behavior was odd.
408
00:28:02,667 --> 00:28:06,542
So you're saying
that you think she did it?
409
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,167
I think John didn't do it.
410
00:28:09,250 --> 00:28:11,625
You think John didn't do it? Interesting.
411
00:28:13,375 --> 00:28:17,500
It's like she was more concerned
for who she was protecting.
412
00:28:17,583 --> 00:28:21,500
I believe she was protecting someone
in the family.
413
00:28:22,167 --> 00:28:23,500
I'm not gonna state who
414
00:28:23,583 --> 00:28:26,458
because I really don't know
which person that may have been,
415
00:28:26,542 --> 00:28:29,375
but I believe it was someone
that they both loved very much.
416
00:28:30,083 --> 00:28:33,917
My name is Ryan, and I'm auditioning
for the role of Burke.
417
00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:38,667
Hello.
418
00:28:41,750 --> 00:28:43,292
I'm Jase. I'm...
419
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,625
Um...
420
00:28:56,125 --> 00:28:57,958
I'm ten years old.
421
00:28:59,542 --> 00:29:01,708
I live in Colorado.
422
00:29:03,792 --> 00:29:05,458
Littleton...
423
00:29:06,125 --> 00:29:07,583
Yeah, Littleton.
424
00:29:10,125 --> 00:29:13,042
So I've been
in this one commercial that...
425
00:29:13,125 --> 00:29:14,958
I forgot what it was.
426
00:29:15,042 --> 00:29:17,958
It didn't play here,
427
00:29:18,042 --> 00:29:22,125
but I was just an extra in it.
428
00:29:22,667 --> 00:29:27,000
I was one of the flying monkeys,
429
00:29:27,083 --> 00:29:28,750
one of the Oz-ians,
430
00:29:28,833 --> 00:29:31,708
one of the tough guy munchkins...
431
00:29:31,792 --> 00:29:35,542
...and then I also did
a Denver mattress commercial,
432
00:29:35,625 --> 00:29:38,958
where all I did was wait
for nine hours for the whole day.
433
00:29:39,042 --> 00:29:41,875
Skipped school just because of that
434
00:29:41,958 --> 00:29:45,250
and then I got to jump on the bed
for nine minutes.
435
00:29:45,333 --> 00:29:46,708
That's all I did.
436
00:29:47,458 --> 00:29:51,750
All the other things I tried to do,
I didn't get the part.
437
00:29:56,458 --> 00:29:59,750
My house has a pool in the backyard.
438
00:30:00,875 --> 00:30:02,208
If something happened...
439
00:30:02,292 --> 00:30:07,208
and I do know that the son,
the brother of JonBenet,
440
00:30:07,292 --> 00:30:11,458
did actually hit his sister
with either a golf club or a baseball bat
441
00:30:11,542 --> 00:30:14,458
a month or two
before this incident took place.
442
00:30:14,542 --> 00:30:19,167
But to me, that was, you know,
a brother and sister...
443
00:30:19,250 --> 00:30:21,958
just having an argument, type of thing.
444
00:30:22,042 --> 00:30:27,542
But whoever struck that girl was so angry
and so livid and so mad at her,
445
00:30:27,625 --> 00:30:30,500
with either the flashlight
or a baseball bat,
446
00:30:30,583 --> 00:30:32,667
the skull fracture was intense.
447
00:30:32,750 --> 00:30:36,333
It was a mortal wound,
from everything that I've seen,
448
00:30:36,417 --> 00:30:39,208
but what really finished her off
was the strangulation.
449
00:30:39,292 --> 00:30:42,583
I mean, at one point,
me and my friends had read a book
450
00:30:42,667 --> 00:30:45,125
about people hanging, you know.
451
00:30:45,208 --> 00:30:49,000
And so we built
this little platform thing
452
00:30:49,083 --> 00:30:52,333
and hung each other,
like on-stage, kind of thing.
453
00:30:52,417 --> 00:30:54,708
It was just fooling around,
and we didn't get hurt.
454
00:30:54,792 --> 00:30:56,958
We were fine. Nobody really got hung.
455
00:30:57,042 --> 00:31:00,083
But as an adult,
think of walking into that situation.
456
00:31:00,167 --> 00:31:02,417
Here are these four kids,
457
00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:04,792
they're all ten years old,
something like that,
458
00:31:04,875 --> 00:31:06,833
hanging each other in the garage.
459
00:31:06,917 --> 00:31:09,208
How stupid can you be? But we were kids.
460
00:31:09,292 --> 00:31:11,500
So could it happen? Yeah.
461
00:31:11,583 --> 00:31:14,750
I have two sisters and one brother.
462
00:31:15,250 --> 00:31:16,792
I'm the oldest.
463
00:31:17,417 --> 00:31:19,167
I just have one sister.
464
00:31:20,292 --> 00:31:25,000
Sometimes she'll take, like...
I have trading cards of Peyton Manning.
465
00:31:25,083 --> 00:31:29,708
She'll give them to my little brother,
and I'll be like, "Gabby, what the heck?"
466
00:31:29,792 --> 00:31:32,125
But it's nothing big, really.
467
00:31:32,708 --> 00:31:35,375
Sometimes I'll tease her a little bit.
468
00:31:35,958 --> 00:31:39,167
But it's just brotherly love, I think.
469
00:31:40,250 --> 00:31:43,458
She calls me a scaredy-cat
and calls me a bunch of names,
470
00:31:43,542 --> 00:31:47,083
and I don't like that, because she just
sings a bunch of annoying songs
471
00:31:47,167 --> 00:31:49,000
and calling me names, and...
472
00:31:49,708 --> 00:31:52,625
I ask her to stop a lot,
but she just never does,
473
00:31:52,708 --> 00:31:55,167
and... yeah.
474
00:31:56,292 --> 00:31:58,833
But she's getting nicer.
475
00:31:59,542 --> 00:32:02,250
It's happened about two weeks ago.
476
00:32:02,333 --> 00:32:06,000
She's beginning to become nicer,
477
00:32:06,083 --> 00:32:07,833
which I'm really happy about.
478
00:32:07,917 --> 00:32:11,708
'Cause sometimes I have tears,
479
00:32:11,792 --> 00:32:14,792
'cause it kept going,
480
00:32:14,875 --> 00:32:18,500
but it has started to stop,
which is good.
481
00:32:19,625 --> 00:32:20,917
Oh, yeah. Cool.
482
00:32:24,250 --> 00:32:28,083
"If you tell someone a secret,
it is no longer a secret."
483
00:32:29,125 --> 00:32:33,833
If you tell someone a secret,
it's no longer a secret.
484
00:32:35,292 --> 00:32:39,333
If you tell someone a secret,
it's no longer a secret.
485
00:32:40,083 --> 00:32:45,083
If you tell someone a secret,
it's no longer a secret.
486
00:32:47,875 --> 00:32:50,458
If it was the brother, if it was her son,
487
00:32:51,125 --> 00:32:55,250
I think she would choose her son over...
488
00:32:56,542 --> 00:32:57,875
over truth.
489
00:32:59,125 --> 00:33:02,917
There is no way a nine-year-old
could pull off a murder like this.
490
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,167
The knots were sophisticated,
491
00:33:05,792 --> 00:33:09,250
the head wound that actually killed her...
492
00:33:10,083 --> 00:33:13,375
I don't think he would have the strength
to do something like that.
493
00:33:37,375 --> 00:33:38,375
Ow!
494
00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:43,958
There it goes.
495
00:33:50,042 --> 00:33:53,542
Well, first, Burke,
maybe you could draw me a picture.
496
00:33:54,625 --> 00:33:56,208
A picture of your family.
497
00:33:59,042 --> 00:34:00,750
Would you do that for me?
498
00:34:04,833 --> 00:34:05,792
I can't draw.
499
00:34:06,417 --> 00:34:08,292
It's just so I can get
to know your family.
500
00:34:10,083 --> 00:34:11,250
Um...
501
00:34:16,458 --> 00:34:18,667
Okay. "Dad."
502
00:34:19,750 --> 00:34:21,042
So who's next?
503
00:34:21,125 --> 00:34:23,250
Who's the next person you would draw?
504
00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:26,500
Mom.
505
00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:32,667
So is she the kind of mom
that gives you lots of hugs and kisses?
506
00:34:32,750 --> 00:34:33,583
Yep.
507
00:34:35,375 --> 00:34:37,542
Both you and your sister?
508
00:34:37,625 --> 00:34:40,208
Or just you? Or just your sister?
509
00:34:40,667 --> 00:34:44,542
Just... the both of us.
510
00:34:54,833 --> 00:34:56,292
Burke?
511
00:34:57,792 --> 00:35:00,167
Is there anyone else in your family
you were going to draw?
512
00:35:02,750 --> 00:35:04,083
Nope.
513
00:35:08,208 --> 00:35:09,458
I know that sounds crazy,
514
00:35:09,542 --> 00:35:13,167
but just about any theory in this
whole situation sounds pretty crazy.
515
00:35:13,250 --> 00:35:15,750
You know, parents killing their kids,
516
00:35:16,542 --> 00:35:18,292
brothers killing their sisters,
517
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,583
intruders coming in to kidnap a kid
and writing the letter,
518
00:35:21,667 --> 00:35:24,042
but not kidnapping the kid,
just leaving the kid there...
519
00:35:24,125 --> 00:35:28,542
I mean, any theory is kind of cracked
in this situation.
520
00:35:29,042 --> 00:35:33,750
I know the neighbors heard a lot of ruckus
and saw lights on.
521
00:35:33,833 --> 00:35:38,167
I know the stairway was a spiral stairway,
and it was very steep.
522
00:35:38,250 --> 00:35:40,875
I definitely believe that JonBenet Ramsey
was fed pineapple.
523
00:35:40,958 --> 00:35:43,917
Maybe the window was open
before the snow fell.
524
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,375
This is where the confusion comes up,
525
00:35:46,458 --> 00:35:50,750
because there were knots tied
on that rope mechanism
526
00:35:50,833 --> 00:35:53,250
that was used to strangle her,
527
00:35:53,333 --> 00:35:57,667
and the knots apparently required
some level of expertise.
528
00:35:57,750 --> 00:36:01,625
There are some very bizarre things
that are tied to this case.
529
00:36:01,708 --> 00:36:07,625
For instance, JonBenet was six years old,
and she died on December 26 of 1996,
530
00:36:07,708 --> 00:36:12,292
and I think that's kind of odd
that there's all of these common numbers
531
00:36:12,375 --> 00:36:16,833
involved in this particular time
that she died.
532
00:36:16,917 --> 00:36:20,958
And that sometimes indicates
that there is somebody's signature on it.
533
00:36:21,042 --> 00:36:25,583
And from people who run
in some pretty sick circles.
534
00:36:26,167 --> 00:36:28,542
You know, who knows
how weird these judges are
535
00:36:28,625 --> 00:36:30,750
and these little girl pageants.
536
00:36:30,833 --> 00:36:35,417
Maybe she was letting someone have time
with her daughter
537
00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:37,583
in some kind of weird sex thing,
538
00:36:37,667 --> 00:36:40,292
and that got carried away,
and it went too far.
539
00:36:40,375 --> 00:36:43,625
At the time, there was a lot
of talk that there was a child porn ring
540
00:36:43,708 --> 00:36:44,958
going on in Boulder.
541
00:36:45,042 --> 00:36:46,833
But the crime that's committed in Boulder,
542
00:36:46,917 --> 00:36:51,000
you don't find a lot
of break-ins or assaults.
543
00:36:51,083 --> 00:36:55,417
You find a lot of white-collar crime
and possibly the child porn angle,
544
00:36:55,500 --> 00:36:59,958
which everybody just is very like,
"Why wasn't this investigated?"
545
00:37:01,958 --> 00:37:07,000
Well, you might assume for instance that
this might be some sort of rotating club,
546
00:37:07,083 --> 00:37:12,208
where on this Christmas Eve,
or this Christmas Day,
547
00:37:13,542 --> 00:37:16,417
a party at the Ramseys...
548
00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:21,375
that there might have been
some reciprocity that the Ramseys...
549
00:37:21,458 --> 00:37:26,292
John Ramsey in particular, might have been
invited to somebody else's house,
550
00:37:26,375 --> 00:37:28,542
with somebody else's little girl.
551
00:37:29,375 --> 00:37:31,208
It's always somebody you know.
552
00:37:31,292 --> 00:37:34,667
In cases like that, nine times out of ten,
it's somebody you know.
553
00:37:34,750 --> 00:37:36,375
I, as a child...
554
00:37:37,917 --> 00:37:39,792
twice, I was...
555
00:37:39,875 --> 00:37:42,292
two times, gentlemen that we knew,
556
00:37:42,375 --> 00:37:45,208
one of them was a neighbor,
one of them was a family member,
557
00:37:45,292 --> 00:37:46,958
tried to molest me.
558
00:37:48,125 --> 00:37:51,208
Both people I knew. Both nice, older men.
559
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,458
I didn't have a clue.
560
00:37:54,542 --> 00:37:56,042
They...
561
00:37:56,750 --> 00:38:00,833
for years,
they were just friends of our family,
562
00:38:00,917 --> 00:38:02,500
and then one day...
563
00:38:04,458 --> 00:38:08,500
you know, they start with little comments
that you don't understand,
564
00:38:08,583 --> 00:38:12,958
and slowly but surely they lure you
into this...
565
00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:17,833
into this place they want you to be,
566
00:38:17,917 --> 00:38:20,000
and for me it was...
567
00:38:20,083 --> 00:38:23,667
I remember the neighbor
making comments about...
568
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:28,583
I must have been about...
about six, six or seven,
569
00:38:28,667 --> 00:38:31,375
and him making some comment
about, you know,
570
00:38:31,458 --> 00:38:35,417
"Hey, it won't be long before you'll be
getting your little mosquito bumps."
571
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:38,083
And I'm like, "What?
What is he talking about?"
572
00:38:38,167 --> 00:38:39,958
I didn't get that.
573
00:38:40,042 --> 00:38:43,458
Because I didn't have any mosquito bites,
574
00:38:43,542 --> 00:38:45,583
and I didn't know anything about sex.
575
00:38:45,667 --> 00:38:46,917
I knew nothing.
576
00:38:47,500 --> 00:38:51,833
And next thing I know,
when his wife is away...
577
00:38:51,917 --> 00:38:54,958
and he was in his 70s...
he invited me in with some candy.
578
00:38:55,042 --> 00:38:57,833
And he was our neighbor
for a couple of years.
579
00:38:57,917 --> 00:39:00,500
So I went in. I had no problem with that.
580
00:39:00,583 --> 00:39:02,792
My mother never said, "Don't do that."
581
00:39:02,875 --> 00:39:06,500
And he gave me some comic books
with some pornography in them.
582
00:39:06,583 --> 00:39:09,833
I didn't know what it was.
I just knew it was wrong.
583
00:39:10,458 --> 00:39:13,708
There are people that have written books
and still have blogs about it.
584
00:39:13,792 --> 00:39:17,542
That there is a whole dark,
mysterious corner of Boulder
585
00:39:17,625 --> 00:39:20,042
that has not been touched on,
586
00:39:20,125 --> 00:39:21,542
and maybe it's because,
587
00:39:21,625 --> 00:39:24,667
as the story goes, there's people
within the police department
588
00:39:24,750 --> 00:39:29,000
that perhaps knew about it,
or knew somebody in it, and wanted...
589
00:39:29,083 --> 00:39:30,375
At any rate, there was a point
590
00:39:30,458 --> 00:39:33,667
where there was protection
over that particular lead.
591
00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:35,333
And it was not followed.
592
00:39:35,417 --> 00:39:38,417
I know there was a Santa Claus that was
at the party,
593
00:39:39,167 --> 00:39:41,458
that maybe could have done it.
594
00:39:41,542 --> 00:39:45,542
Oh, I started this in 2006.
595
00:39:46,375 --> 00:39:50,458
After I blew my knee out,
I couldn't work, so...
596
00:39:51,625 --> 00:39:54,125
A lot of people used to say
I looked like Santa Claus,
597
00:39:54,208 --> 00:39:56,500
so I just...
598
00:39:56,583 --> 00:39:59,667
Even without a beard,
they said I looked like Santa Claus.
599
00:39:59,750 --> 00:40:01,417
So I just grew a beard.
600
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:04,542
I figured, "Well,
I've got to do something to make a buck."
601
00:40:04,625 --> 00:40:06,500
And it was pretty profitable.
602
00:40:06,583 --> 00:40:11,458
And besides that, it made
Christmastime more enjoyable.
603
00:40:11,958 --> 00:40:14,292
You get addicted to the love.
604
00:40:14,917 --> 00:40:16,292
Very quickly.
605
00:40:16,375 --> 00:40:20,667
Someone puts on the red suit, once, twice,
606
00:40:20,750 --> 00:40:24,708
it's more addictive than heroin,
I'm sure.
607
00:40:26,708 --> 00:40:28,375
I like children.
608
00:40:29,167 --> 00:40:31,583
I like making children smile.
609
00:40:32,167 --> 00:40:34,667
I like giving gifts.
610
00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:37,833
- Why they think Santa is a suspect...
- In the JonBenet...
611
00:40:37,917 --> 00:40:40,917
"JonBenet, do you want to know a secret?
612
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,083
I'm going to come and visit you.
613
00:40:44,167 --> 00:40:48,333
I'm going to give you
an extra-special visit after Christmas."
614
00:40:48,833 --> 00:40:54,042
We went to the ceremony
that they had for JonBenet,
615
00:40:54,125 --> 00:40:59,333
and the pastor says,
"Would anybody like to say anything?"
616
00:41:00,417 --> 00:41:03,042
And as soon as he said that,
617
00:41:03,125 --> 00:41:05,708
a guy jumped up and said, "I do."
618
00:41:05,792 --> 00:41:10,167
And he started talking about how he was
in JonBenet's bedroom,
619
00:41:10,792 --> 00:41:15,125
and he was talking to her
about where Santa lived,
620
00:41:15,208 --> 00:41:19,083
and she said that it was in her heart,
621
00:41:19,167 --> 00:41:21,625
and that...
622
00:41:22,167 --> 00:41:27,042
and then he told her that JonBenet lived
in his heart.
623
00:41:27,625 --> 00:41:30,875
And he showed this little vial
of something,
624
00:41:30,958 --> 00:41:33,833
glitter, or something,
that she had given to him.
625
00:41:33,917 --> 00:41:35,458
and I just thought,
626
00:41:35,542 --> 00:41:39,750
"This guy... is the killer."
627
00:41:40,292 --> 00:41:43,042
'Cause this was
the most bizarre thing I had ever seen.
628
00:41:44,250 --> 00:41:48,125
This is why I have
a background check every year,
629
00:41:48,208 --> 00:41:51,875
and the professional Santas
that I mingle with
630
00:41:52,625 --> 00:41:53,958
have background checks.
631
00:41:54,042 --> 00:41:55,667
They have the insurance.
632
00:41:56,500 --> 00:41:58,458
They were trained.
633
00:41:59,875 --> 00:42:01,375
We're trustworthy.
634
00:42:02,792 --> 00:42:04,917
Just as an aside
which I don't tell most people,
635
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,417
we wear white gloves.
636
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:09,667
And the main reason we wear white gloves
is because in a photo,
637
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:13,042
it's much easier
to identify where your hands are.
638
00:42:13,833 --> 00:42:16,375
How was the guy
going to sneak into the house?
639
00:42:17,417 --> 00:42:20,250
Especially if he's going to come around
looking like Santa Claus.
640
00:42:20,333 --> 00:42:24,250
I mean, you don't go around
in a red suit in public
641
00:42:24,333 --> 00:42:25,875
and not be noticed.
642
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:28,958
You know, it's a bunch of crap.
643
00:42:29,042 --> 00:42:33,083
You know,
I really think it was John... Patsy Ramsey.
644
00:42:35,375 --> 00:42:37,083
I think she just threw a fit.
645
00:42:37,167 --> 00:42:38,792
I think she was...
646
00:42:40,125 --> 00:42:43,042
You know, she probably was the royal bitch
of a mother.
647
00:42:45,542 --> 00:42:50,375
You know, pushing her kid
into something that's not being a kid.
648
00:42:51,417 --> 00:42:53,375
I mean, it's like...
649
00:42:54,250 --> 00:42:56,792
you know, when we're kids all we want
to do is grow up,
650
00:42:56,875 --> 00:43:00,000
and when you get old, you go, "Why?"
You know?
651
00:43:00,083 --> 00:43:01,417
I mean, it's like...
652
00:44:04,292 --> 00:44:06,375
Why do I have to wear a wig?
653
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,208
My name is Dixon White,
654
00:45:11,292 --> 00:45:13,917
and I'm auditioning
for the role of John Mark Karr.
655
00:45:26,375 --> 00:45:28,375
I do not rate my little lovers.
656
00:45:32,083 --> 00:45:34,000
I mean, JonBenet was unique.
657
00:45:35,292 --> 00:45:37,125
As all of them were unique.
658
00:45:37,208 --> 00:45:39,042
But she was my bride.
659
00:45:43,292 --> 00:45:45,167
I loved her so much.
660
00:45:48,708 --> 00:45:50,708
After I lost her, I...
661
00:45:51,292 --> 00:45:53,000
I fell in love again.
662
00:45:53,917 --> 00:45:55,375
With other girls.
663
00:45:57,500 --> 00:45:59,083
But she always...
664
00:46:00,958 --> 00:46:02,917
will be my little JonBenet.
665
00:46:06,542 --> 00:46:10,000
There were a lot of weird things
going on with John Mark Karr.
666
00:46:10,583 --> 00:46:12,667
I believe he married a 13-year-old girl,
667
00:46:12,750 --> 00:46:17,083
which was apparently legal
in Alabama at the time.
668
00:46:17,708 --> 00:46:20,583
John Mark Karr was in Thailand,
669
00:46:20,667 --> 00:46:25,833
and they were...
he was being pursued for some other...
670
00:46:25,917 --> 00:46:30,333
pedophilia acts that he had performed
in other countries.
671
00:46:30,417 --> 00:46:34,333
And he wouldn't give a direct location
so they couldn't find him.
672
00:46:34,417 --> 00:46:36,583
But then he came forward,
673
00:46:36,667 --> 00:46:40,542
and when they caught him, he said,
674
00:46:40,625 --> 00:46:43,208
"I was with JonBenet
the night that she died."
675
00:46:43,792 --> 00:46:46,375
Yeah, he's a messed up person.
676
00:46:46,458 --> 00:46:50,208
They said he was into child porn
and things like that.
677
00:46:50,708 --> 00:46:52,542
I don't think he had anything
to do with it.
678
00:46:52,625 --> 00:46:54,542
He was very convincing.
679
00:46:56,917 --> 00:46:59,000
Convincing, in the fact that he is creepy.
680
00:46:59,083 --> 00:47:01,250
He is so creepy,
681
00:47:01,333 --> 00:47:04,750
to the point that
what he says, he believes.
682
00:47:05,292 --> 00:47:09,000
And I think the police
believed him as well. I really do.
683
00:47:09,083 --> 00:47:12,458
Until that forensic evidence said,
"No, it's not him."
684
00:47:14,625 --> 00:47:17,708
It's very difficult for any of us
to relate to this person.
685
00:47:19,042 --> 00:47:22,417
Somebody that would,
maybe for attention purposes,
686
00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:26,667
maybe for self-punishment purposes...
687
00:47:26,750 --> 00:47:29,958
I'm not sure why he confessed,
688
00:47:30,042 --> 00:47:33,625
although I guess
that happens fairly often.
689
00:47:34,583 --> 00:47:35,583
False confessions.
690
00:47:35,667 --> 00:47:40,250
But... just a really peculiar human being.
691
00:47:42,042 --> 00:47:44,708
Speaking as John Mark Karr,
she was beautiful.
692
00:47:44,792 --> 00:47:48,000
I mean, she was just a little doll.
693
00:47:48,083 --> 00:47:50,583
If you look at her beauty pageant tapes,
694
00:47:50,667 --> 00:47:54,292
like, researching the role,
I'd watch these...
695
00:47:55,167 --> 00:47:59,542
Getting into my mind, I would watch
these pageant tapes of her,
696
00:47:59,625 --> 00:48:03,250
and just taking off
her little masks, and how...
697
00:48:04,292 --> 00:48:06,667
parading around in her costumes
with all her make-up on.
698
00:48:06,750 --> 00:48:08,625
And she was a beautiful little girl.
699
00:48:08,708 --> 00:48:10,833
People would say she was cute
and this and that,
700
00:48:10,917 --> 00:48:15,458
but in his mind, he sees that as,
like, pure beauty.
701
00:48:15,542 --> 00:48:16,875
And...
702
00:48:18,083 --> 00:48:20,542
and that's why he was attracted to her.
703
00:48:21,625 --> 00:48:23,417
"She, of course, was...
704
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,542
She was asleep from the time that
I took her from her bed into the basement.
705
00:48:32,625 --> 00:48:34,292
She had nothing to say."
706
00:48:37,792 --> 00:48:39,625
The trauma of it still...
707
00:48:43,625 --> 00:48:45,750
it still haunts me. I mean...
708
00:48:47,792 --> 00:48:49,625
to this day, I just...
709
00:48:51,458 --> 00:48:53,208
love her so much.
710
00:49:00,167 --> 00:49:03,625
Karr. Let's go.
711
00:49:50,125 --> 00:49:52,667
I mean,
JonBenet was obviously stressed out,
712
00:49:52,750 --> 00:49:57,708
because... I guess she had
a history of wetting her bed,
713
00:49:58,333 --> 00:49:59,667
pooping in her bed...
714
00:50:00,208 --> 00:50:03,000
So maybe Patsy got up
in the middle of the night
715
00:50:03,083 --> 00:50:04,500
to check on her.
716
00:50:05,292 --> 00:50:06,875
She wasn't there.
717
00:50:07,917 --> 00:50:11,958
She went all through the house,
searching, and found...
718
00:50:13,833 --> 00:50:16,458
the most horrific scene she could find.
719
00:50:17,083 --> 00:50:19,250
Her husband having sex with her daughter.
720
00:50:20,125 --> 00:50:23,458
And not just having sex, but weird sex.
721
00:50:24,458 --> 00:50:26,167
And...
722
00:50:26,792 --> 00:50:31,958
of course she would go ballistic
and picked up a golf club and swung it
723
00:50:32,042 --> 00:50:33,333
and...
724
00:50:35,625 --> 00:50:39,417
mistakenly hit JonBenet instead of John.
725
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:48,667
The autopsy shows that
there was some abuse to her genitalia.
726
00:50:49,167 --> 00:50:54,750
Something, incredibly,
that the district attorney dismissed as,
727
00:50:54,833 --> 00:50:58,375
"Being a bicycle experience."
728
00:50:59,292 --> 00:51:01,875
Which blew my mind when I read that.
729
00:51:03,042 --> 00:51:04,625
But anyway, this is Boulder
730
00:51:04,708 --> 00:51:08,250
and so, you know,
that's what you have to deal with.
731
00:51:08,750 --> 00:51:15,750
But I thought that there had to be
some sort of... sexual escapade
732
00:51:16,625 --> 00:51:18,000
that got out of hand.
733
00:51:18,083 --> 00:51:20,167
In my opinion as a sex educator,
734
00:51:20,250 --> 00:51:23,333
there's really no way that that
could have been done by accident.
735
00:51:24,125 --> 00:51:28,292
Ligature marks take
a significant amount of force to leave,
736
00:51:28,375 --> 00:51:32,000
especially as deep as they were
with JonBenet Ramsey.
737
00:51:33,250 --> 00:51:37,083
That doesn't happen by accident.
That's a very deliberate act.
738
00:51:38,042 --> 00:51:40,500
And a significant amount of time
to leave those marks.
739
00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:42,792
Um...
740
00:51:45,958 --> 00:51:47,958
I found someone close to me dead.
741
00:51:52,625 --> 00:51:54,542
And it's an awful experience.
742
00:51:57,250 --> 00:51:59,083
I've lost somebody I loved.
743
00:52:03,083 --> 00:52:04,125
And...
744
00:52:05,375 --> 00:52:08,042
and I know what it's like
to have a little bit of suspicion.
745
00:52:08,125 --> 00:52:09,583
I didn't have suspicion for long,
746
00:52:09,667 --> 00:52:13,167
because they did an autopsy
on this person.
747
00:52:16,167 --> 00:52:20,792
But I understand this idea
of people thinking things about you,
748
00:52:20,875 --> 00:52:24,875
of, you know, the immediate rush of...
749
00:52:26,042 --> 00:52:28,500
somebody wanting
to find somebody to blame.
750
00:52:29,250 --> 00:52:33,125
And to have fingers pointed
at you falsely,
751
00:52:35,208 --> 00:52:36,375
and...
752
00:52:38,667 --> 00:52:41,792
you know, to have
somebody you love be lost,
753
00:52:43,375 --> 00:52:45,000
and to be misunderstood about it
754
00:52:45,083 --> 00:52:50,708
and to probably
be grieving alone like that...
755
00:52:51,500 --> 00:52:53,042
or with his wife.
756
00:52:53,125 --> 00:52:58,833
But to feel isolated... in that grief
757
00:52:58,917 --> 00:53:01,417
and the mourning that he experienced...
758
00:53:03,875 --> 00:53:05,542
You know, he...
759
00:53:05,958 --> 00:53:10,250
So that I can relate to
from my own personal experience.
760
00:53:12,333 --> 00:53:14,292
You know, it's hard for me.
761
00:53:14,375 --> 00:53:17,792
It's hard for me sitting here
talking about it as myself.
762
00:53:21,250 --> 00:53:25,500
To not just... I mean,
I'm holding back weeping over...
763
00:53:27,958 --> 00:53:30,333
the loss, you know?
764
00:53:32,125 --> 00:53:35,083
Because I myself have lost three children.
765
00:53:35,167 --> 00:53:36,667
So I...
766
00:53:38,375 --> 00:53:40,292
I know what that feels like.
767
00:53:40,375 --> 00:53:43,042
So when that woman looked in the camera
768
00:53:43,125 --> 00:53:46,542
or was talking to Larry King
or whoever she was talking to
769
00:53:46,625 --> 00:53:48,708
or sitting in that interrogation room,
770
00:53:49,875 --> 00:53:53,958
she was, you know... and this is coming
from an acting point of view,
771
00:53:54,042 --> 00:53:56,500
someone who believes that
in order to act,
772
00:53:56,583 --> 00:53:58,375
you tell the truth.
773
00:53:58,458 --> 00:54:01,958
You know, you look in the camera
and you tell the truth.
774
00:54:02,042 --> 00:54:06,167
You believe, you commit.
You are that person.
775
00:54:06,250 --> 00:54:09,250
You are one 100% there.
776
00:54:09,333 --> 00:54:10,875
Committed.
777
00:54:11,542 --> 00:54:16,917
When she was there...
to me, it was the poorest acting job...
778
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,583
one of the poorest acting jobs
I think I'd ever seen.
779
00:54:20,792 --> 00:54:24,625
Sorry, you'll have to hop off this
'cause I'll move these ones back.
780
00:54:27,542 --> 00:54:31,208
Try that and then I think
at the front for your legs...
781
00:54:31,875 --> 00:54:37,292
Is there any way
at all I can be leaning back more?
782
00:54:37,375 --> 00:54:38,583
Yeah.
783
00:54:41,875 --> 00:54:45,167
Or would it be better
if I took that completely out...
784
00:54:45,250 --> 00:54:50,583
No, it's more about my back and core.
785
00:54:52,667 --> 00:54:55,250
And I think this feels a little better.
786
00:54:56,708 --> 00:55:00,250
But if I can't relax my core,
I can't get where I need to get.
787
00:55:00,875 --> 00:55:02,708
If you'd prefer to try one
of these chairs...
788
00:55:02,792 --> 00:55:04,042
I would, yeah.
789
00:55:04,750 --> 00:55:06,167
I just have to...
790
00:55:38,125 --> 00:55:39,708
JonBenet...
791
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:42,833
when we pulled up to the house...
792
00:55:44,542 --> 00:55:46,542
she was sound asleep.
793
00:55:48,542 --> 00:55:53,250
Because I remember getting her out
of the car...
794
00:55:55,042 --> 00:55:56,792
and she was just out.
795
00:56:00,125 --> 00:56:03,875
So he's probably, at this point,
aware that he's a suspect.
796
00:56:05,083 --> 00:56:09,208
She's so sick and tired...
797
00:56:10,417 --> 00:56:15,042
of talking to...
over and over and over...
798
00:56:16,083 --> 00:56:18,833
answering the same questions.
799
00:56:20,917 --> 00:56:23,458
And they're just trying to dig.
800
00:56:37,958 --> 00:56:40,208
You're going down the wrong path, buddy.
801
00:56:44,083 --> 00:56:45,875
Nope. Mnh-mnh.
802
00:56:46,750 --> 00:56:50,542
If she got up in the night
and ran into somebody...
803
00:56:50,625 --> 00:56:52,542
Somebody wasn't supposed to be there.
804
00:56:52,625 --> 00:56:55,875
Look, if she got up in the middle
of the night and ran into somebody,
805
00:56:55,958 --> 00:57:00,333
then somebody was there
that wasn't supposed to be there.
806
00:57:01,750 --> 00:57:04,042
Yeah, I took her upstairs.
807
00:57:05,042 --> 00:57:07,083
I laid her on her bed.
808
00:57:07,167 --> 00:57:09,958
That's usually what I would do.
809
00:57:11,875 --> 00:57:13,708
That's usually what I did.
810
00:57:14,750 --> 00:57:19,792
I remember, I either took her shoes off
or her coat off
811
00:57:20,583 --> 00:57:24,292
and kind of got her sort of ready.
812
00:57:25,250 --> 00:57:28,208
And then Patsy took over.
813
00:57:31,083 --> 00:57:32,708
Then I went to bed.
814
00:57:35,708 --> 00:57:38,083
Whatever transpired after that,
815
00:57:38,167 --> 00:57:42,042
whether it was an accident or intentional
816
00:57:42,125 --> 00:57:43,958
or premeditated...
817
00:57:44,917 --> 00:57:46,292
or whatnot.
818
00:57:46,875 --> 00:57:52,583
It was not one of her three family members
in that house. Period.
819
00:57:53,417 --> 00:57:55,000
Period.
820
00:57:55,083 --> 00:57:56,917
End of statement.
821
00:58:29,875 --> 00:58:32,042
Okay, people, here we go.
822
00:58:32,750 --> 00:58:35,500
Christmas night, interior Ramsey house.
823
00:58:37,250 --> 00:58:38,792
Kill the house lights.
824
00:58:43,667 --> 00:58:47,917
This is a tough piece, because...
825
00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:52,208
I don't think you can just come at it...
826
00:58:53,417 --> 00:58:54,750
as an actor and say...
827
00:58:55,708 --> 00:58:58,292
"Wow, isn't it cool I get to do this?"
828
00:59:00,292 --> 00:59:05,750
Because that won't read
for what you are trying to do.
829
00:59:07,750 --> 00:59:10,917
You've got to...
I think it really has to be...
830
00:59:12,083 --> 00:59:15,167
considered an act of public service,
to a certain degree,
831
00:59:15,917 --> 00:59:20,083
to have any...
to maintain any kind of integrity
832
00:59:20,167 --> 00:59:23,542
about why you might want to come in
and expose yourself to this.
833
00:59:24,333 --> 00:59:27,542
I've talked to very few people about this,
834
00:59:27,625 --> 00:59:29,917
and they said,
"Do you really want to do that?"
835
00:59:31,708 --> 00:59:34,375
That was my first reaction
when I heard about it, too.
836
00:59:34,458 --> 00:59:37,208
I said, "Whoa, that's heavy duty."
837
00:59:39,042 --> 00:59:42,625
And then once I dug into it a little more,
it's like,
838
00:59:42,708 --> 00:59:47,083
"There may be something that could
come out of this that could help."
839
00:59:47,625 --> 00:59:50,458
It's got to be better than nothing.
840
00:59:51,958 --> 00:59:53,125
So...
841
00:59:54,250 --> 00:59:58,125
that's how I think I can credibly come
at this without...
842
00:59:59,208 --> 01:00:00,583
this notion of,
843
01:00:00,667 --> 01:00:03,250
"Hey, isn't this a cool acting gig"
kind of thing.
844
01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:07,625
Carolyn to make-up, please.
845
01:00:14,042 --> 01:00:17,667
For me, it's really...
I adore both of my children.
846
01:00:17,750 --> 01:00:19,667
My daughter is a ten-year-old,
847
01:00:19,750 --> 01:00:24,375
a really vivacious actor,
artist, musician.
848
01:00:24,458 --> 01:00:26,667
She's just wonderful.
849
01:00:26,750 --> 01:00:29,625
And all I have to... I'm getting there.
850
01:00:29,708 --> 01:00:31,708
All I have to do is think about...
851
01:00:33,042 --> 01:00:36,750
walking down the stairs
and turning a corner and finding...
852
01:00:39,167 --> 01:00:41,042
her little legs...
853
01:00:43,667 --> 01:00:45,875
and then coming around the corner
and going into the room
854
01:00:45,958 --> 01:00:47,917
and seeing just a little body
855
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:49,917
and her little light...
856
01:00:52,625 --> 01:00:54,792
not being there anymore.
857
01:00:57,833 --> 01:00:59,958
I hate to admit this, but I remember...
858
01:01:00,042 --> 01:01:04,333
I mean, I didn't hit my child,
but when he went to potty training,
859
01:01:04,417 --> 01:01:06,833
he would never really make me that angry,
860
01:01:06,917 --> 01:01:11,125
but the week that he decided he wanted
to start,
861
01:01:11,208 --> 01:01:13,542
he peed on everything.
862
01:01:14,417 --> 01:01:16,833
And it was the one thing
that sent me through the roof,
863
01:01:16,917 --> 01:01:20,250
and I remember standing there
screaming my lungs out at him.
864
01:01:21,167 --> 01:01:25,583
And to this day,
I feel so horrible for doing it.
865
01:01:26,125 --> 01:01:27,583
Horrible.
866
01:01:29,833 --> 01:01:32,958
And I think I could imagine...
867
01:01:35,042 --> 01:01:36,417
playing like that.
868
01:01:36,500 --> 01:01:38,542
Screaming at this child,
869
01:01:38,625 --> 01:01:41,167
because I'm so angry that she wet her bed.
870
01:01:41,958 --> 01:01:43,583
Going back to that moment of,
871
01:01:43,667 --> 01:01:48,417
"Wow, how could my child press
that button I didn't even know I had?"
872
01:01:49,625 --> 01:01:55,708
And being just so pissed off
at something so stupid,
873
01:01:55,792 --> 01:02:00,292
but you're just so exhausted,
that now I'm not even in my right mind.
874
01:02:02,833 --> 01:02:06,125
That's how I could see
where that would start.
875
01:02:10,958 --> 01:02:13,292
When you grow up in a household
876
01:02:13,375 --> 01:02:15,000
where there's a dysfunction...
877
01:02:15,083 --> 01:02:17,958
My mother was also an alcoholic,
but she was a functioning alcoholic.
878
01:02:18,042 --> 01:02:20,250
She actually worked
for the police department,
879
01:02:20,333 --> 01:02:22,042
and she was a dispatcher.
880
01:02:22,125 --> 01:02:24,333
And all those years,
881
01:02:24,958 --> 01:02:25,917
I knew she drank,
882
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:30,500
and I kind of understood as a child
a little bit what an alcoholic was.
883
01:02:30,583 --> 01:02:33,542
But we also knew there was
something else wrong with my mother.
884
01:02:33,625 --> 01:02:36,792
And we all knew. There was five of us
in the family, five children.
885
01:02:37,292 --> 01:02:39,292
And we all knew
there was something wrong.
886
01:02:39,375 --> 01:02:42,417
And it wasn't until my mother went
into a nursing home
887
01:02:42,500 --> 01:02:44,958
where she was actually finally diagnosed.
888
01:02:45,042 --> 01:02:47,125
I remember them calling me up and saying,
889
01:02:47,208 --> 01:02:49,875
"Did you know your mother...
well, she's an alcoholic,
890
01:02:49,958 --> 01:02:53,042
but do you know that she has
borderline personality disorder?"
891
01:02:53,125 --> 01:02:56,458
And I was taken aback,
'cause I hadn't heard the term.
892
01:02:56,542 --> 01:02:59,208
I had heard bipolar,
but I hadn't heard that term.
893
01:02:59,958 --> 01:03:02,542
And then I looked it up and I read it,
894
01:03:02,625 --> 01:03:05,333
and it was like, "Wow, that's my mom."
895
01:03:05,417 --> 01:03:07,667
And for the family,
896
01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:10,917
it was such a great thing
to have that to attach it to,
897
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:14,292
because then we knew...
we knew there was something.
898
01:03:14,375 --> 01:03:17,208
You know, it kind of validified
what we all thought,
899
01:03:17,292 --> 01:03:19,042
that there was something wrong with Mom.
900
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:26,250
I have always grieved the fact
that I didn't have kids.
901
01:03:26,333 --> 01:03:27,917
And I've grieved it for a long time.
902
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,000
I was divorced and didn't have kids,
903
01:03:30,083 --> 01:03:32,458
and I...
904
01:03:34,042 --> 01:03:38,500
It's just been really sad, and it's
taken me to some really dark places.
905
01:03:38,583 --> 01:03:41,458
Because I always wanted to have kids,
my whole life.
906
01:03:42,208 --> 01:03:45,792
And the realization
that that may not be the case
907
01:03:46,750 --> 01:03:49,833
kind of cuts to the core
of your masculinity.
908
01:03:50,333 --> 01:03:55,125
And the prostate is very much connected in
with masculinity.
909
01:03:55,750 --> 01:04:00,750
And I really do believe
that there is a mind-body connection.
910
01:04:04,417 --> 01:04:07,000
And so, back to her situation,
911
01:04:07,542 --> 01:04:08,917
you kill your daughter,
912
01:04:09,875 --> 01:04:12,417
your daughter comes from your ovaries
913
01:04:12,500 --> 01:04:15,333
and your uterus
914
01:04:15,417 --> 01:04:19,250
and if you look at her cancer,
it was ovarian cancer.
915
01:04:19,875 --> 01:04:24,958
And I'm just throwing it out there
as a theory,
916
01:04:25,042 --> 01:04:29,833
and I wouldn't have been able to have
this conversation or talk like this...
917
01:04:30,917 --> 01:04:33,042
when we first met a few months back,
918
01:04:33,125 --> 01:04:36,167
because I wasn't diagnosed
with cancer yet.
919
01:04:38,833 --> 01:04:41,583
I think it's just
in people's human instinct
920
01:04:41,667 --> 01:04:43,292
to protect their children.
921
01:04:44,375 --> 01:04:48,833
One of my sons, he did something wrong.
922
01:04:49,625 --> 01:04:51,000
Legally.
923
01:04:51,917 --> 01:04:54,292
Morally, I won't go into details,
924
01:04:54,375 --> 01:04:56,042
but I think he was very justified.
925
01:04:56,125 --> 01:04:58,667
And it was very minor.
Of course, it wasn't murder.
926
01:04:58,750 --> 01:05:00,667
It was a minor thing.
927
01:05:01,333 --> 01:05:03,333
But I understood totally why he did it,
928
01:05:03,417 --> 01:05:05,542
and I probably would have done it myself.
929
01:05:06,250 --> 01:05:09,083
And I didn't turn him in.
930
01:05:09,583 --> 01:05:11,042
I protected him.
931
01:05:11,583 --> 01:05:17,000
Because I'm his father,
and I believed that was morally correct.
932
01:05:21,125 --> 01:05:22,875
John lost his daughter,
933
01:05:23,917 --> 01:05:26,417
and he's about to lose his son as well.
934
01:05:27,125 --> 01:05:30,583
You know, it really puts you
in a position. What do you do?
935
01:05:38,333 --> 01:05:42,500
My father,
before my mom got the divorce,
936
01:05:42,583 --> 01:05:45,500
he was drunk in the backyard
and was chopping wood
937
01:05:45,583 --> 01:05:47,917
and said, "Come out here, get out here."
938
01:05:48,708 --> 01:05:51,708
And I did, and my mom saw
through the window.
939
01:05:52,292 --> 01:05:55,292
And I already saw her running
toward the backyard where we were
940
01:05:55,375 --> 01:05:57,417
and he put an axe through my skull.
941
01:05:57,500 --> 01:06:00,958
And that's what got her a divorce,
was that incident.
942
01:06:02,083 --> 01:06:04,292
And we'd been... we'd been...
943
01:06:05,083 --> 01:06:08,292
I can't even tell you how many times
I'd been slapped, kicked,
944
01:06:08,375 --> 01:06:10,708
hit, beaten, all those things.
945
01:06:11,250 --> 01:06:12,500
I...
946
01:06:13,333 --> 01:06:15,417
But to the world?
947
01:06:16,583 --> 01:06:17,750
Perfect family.
948
01:06:17,833 --> 01:06:21,917
To the world,
my father was the most charming...
949
01:06:24,125 --> 01:06:26,125
charismatic...
950
01:06:27,083 --> 01:06:31,083
handsome man...
that you could ever...
951
01:06:31,167 --> 01:06:35,583
You would never know he had
the temper that he did when he drank.
952
01:06:44,375 --> 01:06:46,500
I had a girlfriend who...
953
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,250
She had a liver disease.
954
01:06:50,792 --> 01:06:52,208
And...
955
01:06:53,958 --> 01:06:55,500
One night we went to bed,
956
01:06:55,583 --> 01:06:58,458
and when I woke up in the morning,
she was dead.
957
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:03,083
And she had had a...
958
01:07:04,083 --> 01:07:06,542
they call it just a liver failure.
959
01:07:06,625 --> 01:07:10,292
Her liver just shut down and quit working,
and then she had a heart attack.
960
01:07:13,333 --> 01:07:16,542
And, yeah, it's a shocking situation
961
01:07:16,625 --> 01:07:19,375
to find a loved one...
962
01:07:20,833 --> 01:07:22,125
you know...
963
01:07:25,375 --> 01:07:26,417
no longer alive.
964
01:07:26,500 --> 01:07:29,667
It's really an eerie thing.
I mean, you...
965
01:07:31,792 --> 01:07:34,500
When you first notice
somebody's not breathing...
966
01:07:37,333 --> 01:07:40,208
and you shake the person.
967
01:07:40,292 --> 01:07:43,833
And then, oh, God, I remember,
like, lifting up her eyelid
968
01:07:43,917 --> 01:07:46,875
and seeing this eyeball staring straight
to the ceiling.
969
01:07:46,958 --> 01:07:49,292
It's the creepiest thing I've ever seen
in my life.
970
01:07:49,375 --> 01:07:52,125
I mean, when you just... you just...
971
01:07:53,167 --> 01:07:55,458
You just see lifelessness
972
01:07:56,542 --> 01:08:00,708
in a human body, and it's...
973
01:08:01,292 --> 01:08:02,417
it's awful.
974
01:08:03,417 --> 01:08:05,542
All right, first positions, everybody.
975
01:08:07,208 --> 01:08:08,458
You know...
976
01:08:09,458 --> 01:08:12,417
You are... you're in a state of shock.
977
01:08:12,500 --> 01:08:14,958
You're in, like, a state of denial,
978
01:08:15,042 --> 01:08:17,625
because you're telling...
979
01:08:17,708 --> 01:08:19,250
It's too overwhelming.
980
01:08:20,458 --> 01:08:23,583
And so you tell yourself,
"This isn't happening."
981
01:08:29,708 --> 01:08:31,667
I'm sure he was going through a lot
of those things,
982
01:08:31,750 --> 01:08:33,667
if he was innocent
and just found his daughter.
983
01:08:33,750 --> 01:08:36,333
I'm sure he was going through a lot
of that same stuff.
984
01:08:46,125 --> 01:08:49,250
- Speed.
- Thursday, 2.6 take one. Marker.
985
01:08:52,250 --> 01:08:53,792
Ready and...
986
01:09:02,042 --> 01:09:03,833
Settling in...
987
01:09:04,750 --> 01:09:06,333
and... action.
988
01:09:38,667 --> 01:09:40,667
Thursday, 2.1 take three. Marker.
989
01:09:55,958 --> 01:09:57,250
Mommy?
990
01:10:00,417 --> 01:10:01,750
Okay, honey.
991
01:10:04,292 --> 01:10:05,708
Quiet, please.
992
01:10:16,833 --> 01:10:19,208
Good girl. Mommy's sweet girl.
993
01:10:19,708 --> 01:10:21,458
Good girl, sweetie.
994
01:10:28,125 --> 01:10:29,750
What pants do you want?
995
01:10:29,833 --> 01:10:32,667
Look, you know we're going
to my parents' house, right?
996
01:10:32,750 --> 01:10:35,250
My black pants are for when I'm going
into meetings.
997
01:10:35,333 --> 01:10:36,833
Pick something like the brown pants.
998
01:10:37,833 --> 01:10:39,667
"The children were nestled all snug
in their bed...
999
01:10:40,333 --> 01:10:42,542
while visions of sugar plums danced
in their head..."
1000
01:10:47,250 --> 01:10:50,208
You don't even get it.
I am so tired of this.
1001
01:10:56,458 --> 01:11:00,250
"'Ooh! Ooh! I want some,'
said Jane Banana."
1002
01:11:32,458 --> 01:11:33,500
Mom.
1003
01:11:34,708 --> 01:11:35,667
Mom?
1004
01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:37,292
Sweetie, what's wrong?
1005
01:11:42,167 --> 01:11:44,042
Honey, what's the matter?
1006
01:13:10,750 --> 01:13:12,125
Give me my daughter!
1007
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:25,042
Fucker! Give me my daughter back!
1008
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:08,708
Don't touch me.
81414