Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,080
There is a debate raging across Wall
2
00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,240
Street about what's happening right now.
3
00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:05,680
What's really happening right now in
4
00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:07,120
private credit and what it might mean
5
00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,280
moving forward. We've gotten past that
6
00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,040
initial stage, the initial shock,
7
00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:13,440
thericolor, the first brands, the hedge
8
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,280
fund redemptions, the cockroaches, and
9
00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,640
the garbage lending. Okay, so now what?
10
00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,880
Well, to begin with, we can look at what
11
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,800
banks are doing, but we're also still
12
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,560
getting a number of warnings coming in
13
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,800
from a lot of big names across the
14
00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,519
entire sector. Right at the center of
15
00:00:29,519 --> 00:00:31,760
the storm is ratings agencies. Again,
16
00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,120
not unlike 2008. Bond giant PIMCO's
17
00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:36,800
chief investment officer was the latest
18
00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,040
to warn about garbage lending and the
19
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,399
high ratings that have been attached to
20
00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:42,399
it by questionable practices. And this
21
00:00:42,399 --> 00:00:43,840
comes from a firm which expects the
22
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,000
economy to pick up next year, too.
23
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,640
Though the CIO also added, quote, "If
24
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,320
you get into a period of economic
25
00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,960
softness, losses will go up and there'll
26
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,840
likely be some disappointment." It's
27
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:57,760
that quote disappointment that's the
28
00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,079
issue here. Flat beverage plus shadow
29
00:01:00,079 --> 00:01:01,760
banking equals the key ingredients for a
30
00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,199
lot more than just dissatisfied
31
00:01:03,199 --> 00:01:05,360
investors and big-time institutions.
32
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,119
Even Bloomberg's editorial board wrote
33
00:01:07,119 --> 00:01:09,520
on Friday that regulated banks have been
34
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,760
put on notice by these growing and more
35
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,560
visible cracks deep in the shadows. The
36
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,640
board adds it has all the similarities,
37
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,640
not just dubious ratings on opaque and
38
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,479
convoluted structures, but all the
39
00:01:20,479 --> 00:01:22,479
similarities to 2008 because of this
40
00:01:22,479 --> 00:01:24,640
framework that no one really knows and
41
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,159
they don't know what the values are to
42
00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:27,680
the point that even government is
43
00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,240
stepping in by starting to ask questions
44
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,240
and demand more information. That's
45
00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,479
really the issue here. And as I keep
46
00:01:34,479 --> 00:01:36,240
saying, the easy way to end this, to
47
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,159
answer everyone's question, is to simply
48
00:01:38,159 --> 00:01:40,079
open the books. We don't need to see
49
00:01:40,079 --> 00:01:42,560
every last trade and transaction, but a
50
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,479
thorough sampling and a legitimate
51
00:01:44,479 --> 00:01:46,399
honest audit would be enough to put the
52
00:01:46,399 --> 00:01:48,079
to put to rest all the doubts that
53
00:01:48,079 --> 00:01:50,000
continue to swirl. And the reason they
54
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,439
continue to swirl is we know there are
55
00:01:51,439 --> 00:01:54,320
legit reasons for all of these doubts.
56
00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,159
And the unwillingness and probably the
57
00:01:56,159 --> 00:01:58,399
inability of private credit providers to
58
00:01:58,399 --> 00:02:01,680
answer all these questions is really an
59
00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,520
answer unto itself. The one thing that
60
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:04,799
we're missing, the one thing that we
61
00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:06,159
need everyone to provide is the one
62
00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:08,319
thing that they don't have. That's
63
00:02:08,319 --> 00:02:10,720
information. And information,
64
00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,239
valuations,
65
00:02:12,239 --> 00:02:15,280
and the opacity of the system is a bad
66
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,840
mix when it goes to the downside of the
67
00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,599
credit cycle when flat beverage starts
68
00:02:19,599 --> 00:02:22,319
to emerge and makes more than just the
69
00:02:22,319 --> 00:02:24,879
real economy uncomfortable.
70
00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:26,480
We do have some information we can pull
71
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:27,840
out. So, we'll go over that on top of
72
00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,840
the continued debate and warnings about
73
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,000
these credit market shadows. But keep in
74
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,920
mind, back during the last credit
75
00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:36,239
bubble, you had bad mortgages given to
76
00:02:36,239 --> 00:02:37,599
struggling households that were buried
77
00:02:37,599 --> 00:02:39,280
into offbalance sheet debt arrangements
78
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:40,959
that were funded by wholesale markets
79
00:02:40,959 --> 00:02:44,080
like repo. This time around, they're
80
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,480
questionable loans to zombie companies
81
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,480
primarily, plus securized credit cards
82
00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,120
and auto lending in the same complicated
83
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,480
arrangements, a lot of which is funded
84
00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,599
in wholesale markets like repo.
85
00:02:55,599 --> 00:02:57,840
Similarities are easy to spot here. So
86
00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,840
already not starting out in the best
87
00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,080
way. and figure out all this stuff is
88
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,319
really worth isn't so easy even in the
89
00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:06,319
best of times. These are not liquid
90
00:03:06,319 --> 00:03:08,480
markets for all these kinds of debts.
91
00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,000
Nor do we have an answer for the true
92
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,480
state of private credit portfolios. That
93
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,720
last one, that's a big stumbling block
94
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,560
right now. All we really have are the
95
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,400
reassurances from shadow bankers
96
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,239
themselves that they're of course their
97
00:03:20,239 --> 00:03:22,480
portfolios are stout, they're solid,
98
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,360
they are fundamentally sound. What else
99
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:26,959
are they going to say? So again, we're
100
00:03:26,959 --> 00:03:28,720
stuck at square one. I mean, after all,
101
00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,319
even the top central bankers at the Bank
102
00:03:30,319 --> 00:03:32,400
of England smelled the rat on that one.
103
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,480
When bureaucrats like Andrew Bailey know
104
00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,400
the the assurances from private credit
105
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,480
providers are worthless, you really know
106
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,319
what we're dealing with here. So, our
107
00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:41,920
first problem is that shadow banks,
108
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,599
whatever term you want to use here,
109
00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:45,599
non-depository financial institutions,
110
00:03:45,599 --> 00:03:47,840
the technical term, they're not required
111
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:49,920
to disclose a whole lot. That's the key
112
00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,239
part in the latter term. They are not
113
00:03:52,239 --> 00:03:54,480
depositories. Since they aren't legally
114
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,080
banks, they don't fall under the banking
115
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,080
rules and regulations, including what
116
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,400
they're supposed to disclose. Thus, the
117
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,040
terms that private and shadow banks very
118
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,439
much apply. Without any depositors,
119
00:04:05,439 --> 00:04:06,799
their investors are qualified
120
00:04:06,799 --> 00:04:08,480
individuals, either hedge fund investors
121
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,640
or big institutions, including regulated
122
00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,239
banks who supply the leverage in these
123
00:04:12,239 --> 00:04:14,879
wholesale markets and other direct to uh
124
00:04:14,879 --> 00:04:17,120
the shadow bank lending. So, absent
125
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:18,799
disclosure requirements and mandated
126
00:04:18,799 --> 00:04:20,720
transparency, all we really have is
127
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,320
shadow bankers continued public
128
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,160
confidence as far as the status of their
129
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,160
credit portfolio. Sure, there are some
130
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,000
published numbers about default rates
131
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,000
and troubled loan estimates, but no one
132
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,520
buys them, and we know for a fact
133
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,360
they're understated by more questionable
134
00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,360
tactics and policies like things like
135
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,840
selective defaults, which I mean, we've
136
00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:39,680
talked about that before. But the first
137
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,600
problem here is we don't know who these
138
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,160
guys have really been lending to exactly
139
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,479
and by how much. And that leads us into
140
00:04:46,479 --> 00:04:48,880
the second problem, which is how much is
141
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,840
all of that actually legitimately
142
00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:53,600
honestly worth because you have to take
143
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,120
into account macroeconomics
144
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,680
considerations, financial variables, a
145
00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,479
whole bunch of stuff to really come to a
146
00:05:00,479 --> 00:05:02,960
a more solid conclusion about what are
147
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,479
these credit portfolios truly worth in
148
00:05:06,479 --> 00:05:08,800
any real and meaningful sense. You know,
149
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:09,919
the stuff that we're talking about here
150
00:05:09,919 --> 00:05:12,080
in this video, that's the reason why for
151
00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,639
the first time, we're having a URL
152
00:05:14,639 --> 00:05:16,960
university live event this coming
153
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,160
February 2026, President's Day weekend.
154
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,840
Not only we're going to talk about the,
155
00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:23,840
you know, the signals in the URL system
156
00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:26,160
and all across the marketplace and, you
157
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:27,680
know, try to navigate our way through
158
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,520
it, but also we're going to have
159
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,520
discussions about what can you do about
160
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,680
it? Things like distressed debt funds
161
00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,160
and distress debt opportunities. So, if
162
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,600
you're a serious investor and this
163
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:38,960
sounds like something you want to be a
164
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:40,560
part of, there's a link in the
165
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,080
description of this video where you can
166
00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,320
sign up to book a call and book your
167
00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,120
spot for URAL University Live. Now, but
168
00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:48,639
you got to be you got to hurry up here
169
00:05:48,639 --> 00:05:50,479
because we put this out to Eurodal
170
00:05:50,479 --> 00:05:52,000
University members and subscribers and
171
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,440
the response so far has been
172
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,520
overwhelming and we only have a limited
173
00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,000
number of spots available. So, like I
174
00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,600
said, if you're interested in coming
175
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,360
joining us, joining me and a bunch of
176
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,120
other people, experts and like-minded
177
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,680
individuals, serious investors, February
178
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,479
2026, President's Day weekend, book your
179
00:06:08,479 --> 00:06:10,080
call at the link in the description. I
180
00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,000
do hope to see you there. It's going to
181
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,680
be a lot of fun, a lot of stuff going
182
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,319
on. Plus, we've got a lot of talk, a lot
183
00:06:16,319 --> 00:06:17,759
to talk about. Like I said, link in the
184
00:06:17,759 --> 00:06:20,160
description to book your call. Now, it
185
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,680
might sound strange we're talking about
186
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,759
loans, but valuations are a huge
187
00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:25,680
headache anyway, even when they're
188
00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,120
actually transparent. If you remember
189
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,600
back during the 2008 crisis, new bank
190
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,440
regulations forced regulated banks to
191
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,199
put out more disclosures on exactly what
192
00:06:33,199 --> 00:06:35,280
we're talking about right here. If you
193
00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:36,560
remember, there were things called level
194
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,800
one assets, which had clearer market
195
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,319
inputs, which meant banks had to put
196
00:06:40,319 --> 00:06:41,840
down what the market said for that
197
00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:43,919
category of assets, including the values
198
00:06:43,919 --> 00:06:45,600
of those securized structures and the
199
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,600
tranches of them, even that they still
200
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,680
had interests in. And that became a huge
201
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:50,880
problem in its own right when the
202
00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,319
markets themselves grew illquid.
203
00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:53,919
Therefore, it led to the whole
204
00:06:53,919 --> 00:06:56,000
marktomarket problem. But beyond level
205
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,840
one, there's these level twos and level
206
00:06:57,840 --> 00:06:59,919
three assets which the government rules
207
00:06:59,919 --> 00:07:01,840
said banks could use their own models to
208
00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:04,000
come up with values. But where level
209
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,240
three, it meant all sorts of just
210
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,560
blackbox calculations. It got to the
211
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:09,840
point where any bank that had a lot of
212
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:11,440
level three assets found itself in
213
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,840
trouble because no one had any faith in
214
00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,759
those blackbox calculations and the
215
00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:17,840
valuations that they spit out. That's
216
00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:19,599
the risk that we're kind of facing here.
217
00:07:19,599 --> 00:07:21,360
Not that private credit is that far down
218
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,680
the rabbit hole of a potential crisis,
219
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,680
just the same sort of difficulties with
220
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,599
the added downside of no regulatory
221
00:07:27,599 --> 00:07:29,599
requirements whatsoever. It's almost as
222
00:07:29,599 --> 00:07:31,520
if the private credit space is itself
223
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,759
level three. And we're supposed to just
224
00:07:33,759 --> 00:07:35,759
trust all the internal blackbox model
225
00:07:35,759 --> 00:07:37,520
values that private credit providers
226
00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,759
come up with with all of these complex
227
00:07:39,759 --> 00:07:41,520
models that we have no idea what goes
228
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,479
into them. And up until September, the
229
00:07:44,479 --> 00:07:46,560
entire industry and all these investors
230
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,560
were perfectly fine with that. Everyone
231
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,880
said, "Who cares? Economy is great. JP
232
00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,280
Paul solid labor market. Therefore, no
233
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:54,960
reason to suspect the numbers are
234
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,560
anything but what the shadow bankers say
235
00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,800
they are." And this is where the flat
236
00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,800
beverage really changes everything. And
237
00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,240
that's where the Bloomberg editorial
238
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:03,759
board warning, that's where it really
239
00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:06,240
picks up. Private credit exposures are
240
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,080
opaque and increasingly convoluted. I
241
00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:08,879
don't know if they're increasingly
242
00:08:08,879 --> 00:08:10,560
convoluted. have always been convoluted
243
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,639
with funds making loans backed by a wide
244
00:08:12,639 --> 00:08:14,879
range of esoteric collateral even
245
00:08:14,879 --> 00:08:16,960
repackaging fund stakes into assets
246
00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,120
which we saw before in the last crisis.
247
00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,120
A lack of public trading leads to loan
248
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,120
volumes that are subjective and
249
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,520
disputed. It can also lead to shocking
250
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,120
meltdowns as we talked about this before
251
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,039
too. Within weeks, Black Rockck revise
252
00:08:29,039 --> 00:08:31,280
one loan's value to zero from a hundred
253
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,440
cents on the dollar. Those features
254
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,159
create an extra risk if things go wrong.
255
00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:37,839
US banks with the most exposure to
256
00:08:37,839 --> 00:08:39,760
non-bank financial institutions or
257
00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:40,959
shadow banks or private credit
258
00:08:40,959 --> 00:08:42,000
providers, whatever you want to call
259
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,240
them, are also those most dependent on
260
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,160
markets for their funding, according to
261
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,240
the International Monetary Fund. One
262
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,440
lesson of 2008, if investors aren't sure
263
00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,000
how exposed a bank might be to losses,
264
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,320
best not to wait around to find out.
265
00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,519
That's a recipe for a financial crisis.
266
00:08:59,519 --> 00:09:02,399
Information asymmetry.
267
00:09:02,399 --> 00:09:04,720
So if or when markets and investors
268
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,959
really begin to doubt both the models
269
00:09:06,959 --> 00:09:09,040
and the private credit providers
270
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,040
reassurances, that's when you got the
271
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,480
problems. And we we've already seen
272
00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,000
questionable practices and the
273
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,320
coaches that have come up so far, which
274
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,720
is only added to the mistrust that much
275
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,320
more. In other words, if there are more
276
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:21,839
troubled loans in these portfolios than
277
00:09:21,839 --> 00:09:23,760
we're already led to believe, that would
278
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,959
have a huge impact on valuing them. How
279
00:09:26,959 --> 00:09:29,360
much losses should investors expect?
280
00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:30,959
Shadow bankers would tell us one thing
281
00:09:30,959 --> 00:09:33,760
when in reality it might be something
282
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,000
very different. And in those frauds that
283
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,600
have come out, what what became clear in
284
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,360
all of them was no one did their
285
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,360
homework. Investors and funding
286
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,360
suppliers just took everything on faith.
287
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,040
Whether it was whether the collateral
288
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:46,880
was even there. Due diligence had
289
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,640
clearly fallen by the wayside. And
290
00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,720
that's not a good sign that's going to
291
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,720
add more trust back to the system. And
292
00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,240
that brings up the issue with ratings
293
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,440
agencies, which I've talked about
294
00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,240
before, too. These firms and their seals
295
00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,920
of approval exist for a couple of
296
00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:01,760
reasons, including being able to sell
297
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,680
these debt structures to certain classes
298
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:06,080
of buyers, but they also exist to
299
00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,320
essentially farm out that due diligence.
300
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,080
Those shadow banks who don't need to or
301
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:11,279
don't feel they need to do their own
302
00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:13,600
homework will hire a ratings agency and
303
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,160
simply let them sample a portfolio of
304
00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,240
questionable quality and put a rating on
305
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,079
the whole shebang. This is what this is
306
00:10:20,079 --> 00:10:22,000
what PIMCO CIO was warning about that I
307
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,680
was talking about in the introduction at
308
00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:25,920
the beginning of this video. quote, "It
309
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:27,760
is very, very dangerous to assume
310
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,440
something has an investment grade rating
311
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,600
just because the ratings agencies assign
312
00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,839
a rating to it. There's been so much
313
00:10:33,839 --> 00:10:35,600
growth in lending to lower quality
314
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,600
companies that's Gunlack's garbage." And
315
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,440
again, the last major cycle was lending
316
00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,279
to lower quality households. And I said
317
00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:43,440
at the beginning, this cycle has been
318
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,760
largely about zombie zombie companies
319
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,000
and corporate credit, but also to a lot
320
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,839
of households, just not not with
321
00:10:49,839 --> 00:10:51,440
mortgage collateral. It's not mortgage
322
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,839
loans and housing collateral. Now it's
323
00:10:53,839 --> 00:10:55,760
consumer loans and zombie corporate
324
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,160
loans and more those types of junk debt.
325
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,399
And Pimco's CIO then went on to add,
326
00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:02,240
PIMCO expects the US economy to
327
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,720
strengthen in early 2026 thanks to AI
328
00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,560
related capital investment and the
329
00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:08,399
impact of the Trump administration's one
330
00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:10,000
big beautiful bill. And we need to
331
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,240
realize here there has almost never been
332
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,000
a time when Pinko didn't think the
333
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,839
economy was strengthening going all the
334
00:11:15,839 --> 00:11:17,600
way back to the days when Bill Gross's
335
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,519
public comments were haunting the firm.
336
00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:22,240
But back to he warned that credit losses
337
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,240
could mount if growth weakens. Quote,
338
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,640
"If you get into a period of economic
339
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,440
softness, losses will go up and there'll
340
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,480
likely be some disappointment. And it
341
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,640
all really could be a possibly brutal
342
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,160
combination. You got questionable
343
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,480
ratings from tainted agencies worse than
344
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:39,839
economic soft. We're really talking
345
00:11:39,839 --> 00:11:41,920
about flat beverage here. Plus, as the
346
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,240
Bloomberg board said, throw in worries
347
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:45,839
about valuations given the lack of
348
00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:47,040
information, and you put all these
349
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,959
things together, and you really do have
350
00:11:48,959 --> 00:11:51,200
the basic ingredients for a financial
351
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,079
crisis, and maybe more if it spills over
352
00:11:54,079 --> 00:11:57,040
beyond into liquidity and shadow money.
353
00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,560
Again, to that last point, valuations,
354
00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:02,160
private credit providers are doing
355
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,399
themselves no favors. This has already
356
00:12:04,399 --> 00:12:06,880
come up in a different context. Though
357
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,240
you can see how it easily easily applies
358
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,440
to this environment where mistrust is
359
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,440
still really starting to spark and to
360
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,120
grow and we're starting to see the smoke
361
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,279
come up from it. Go back to Bloomberg
362
00:12:19,279 --> 00:12:21,360
here. Stark divergences and how
363
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,440
competing firms value private assets in
364
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,519
their portfolios are drawing increasing
365
00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:27,279
attention from market participants,
366
00:12:27,279 --> 00:12:30,399
academics, and now the Department of
367
00:12:30,399 --> 00:12:32,480
Justice. According to Jay Clayton, who's
368
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,399
the head of its Manhattan outpost,
369
00:12:34,399 --> 00:12:36,480
quote, "There are definitely some areas
370
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,639
of concern for me in private markets.
371
00:12:38,639 --> 00:12:40,560
People should know that the financial
372
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,240
regulators in the department are looking
373
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,720
at those, but the rush to offer credit
374
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,639
has started to show cracks this year
375
00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:49,040
amid mounting competition, not really,
376
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,680
alleged frauds by borrowers and a
377
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:53,279
growing body of evidence fueling
378
00:12:53,279 --> 00:12:55,279
concerns that funds use varying methods
379
00:12:55,279 --> 00:12:57,360
to assign values to the assets that they
380
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:58,800
hold and that these things are not
381
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,040
always dependable." One recent academic
382
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,959
paper referred to the apparent
383
00:13:02,959 --> 00:13:06,160
subjectivity of the numbers as mark to
384
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,480
myth. Clayton says what he won't stand
385
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,639
for is money managers cherrypicking
386
00:13:10,639 --> 00:13:13,120
prices that let them reap higher fees at
387
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:14,880
the expense of their clients. And
388
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,120
understand the parallels here. Yes, they
389
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:18,800
might, you know, cherrypick prices to
390
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,240
get higher fees, you know, make the
391
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:21,760
portfolios look bigger than they really
392
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,360
are, but that works in the other
393
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,279
direction, too. If they're cherrypicking
394
00:13:25,279 --> 00:13:29,360
prices to hide losses and the public sus
395
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,760
suspects that's the case, it's only
396
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,040
going to fuel further mistrust. And one
397
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,800
of these tactics is just shuffling
398
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,040
assets back and forth between related
399
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,200
funds. Back to the article here, an
400
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,040
industry body representing fund clients
401
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,560
has called the transactions, this
402
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:46,399
shuffling back and forth, quote,
403
00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:48,720
inherently conflicted and pushed for
404
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,120
clear guidelines in such deals. That
405
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:52,480
hasn't slowed down a boom in
406
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,079
continuation vehicles and they've
407
00:13:54,079 --> 00:13:56,000
increasingly appeared in private credit
408
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,800
as well, but such asset shuffles may be
409
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,519
ripe for abuse. Clayton said an area to
410
00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:04,160
watch for is marks on assets with no
411
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:05,760
trading when things are moved around
412
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,480
from vehicle to vehicle. If someone is
413
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,880
moving a position from fund A to fund B
414
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,399
and you can just name a price
415
00:14:12,399 --> 00:14:15,120
internally, an opportunity to pick a
416
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,639
price that benefits the house over
417
00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:19,279
investors is pretty high. And so again,
418
00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:21,199
while that's a problem for valuations
419
00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:23,440
and maybe puffing up the value of the
420
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,040
fund to raise higher fees or to create
421
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,760
higher fees, in this context of
422
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:29,120
questionable assets, talking about
423
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,120
losses, what these what these illlquid
424
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,800
structures might be worth, the
425
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,480
temptation might be there with this
426
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,800
tactic already in widespread use and
427
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,800
maybe even widespread abuse.
428
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,720
So again, we're seeing more ghosts of
429
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,639
2008. Now, I'm not saying there's a
430
00:14:44,639 --> 00:14:47,199
repeat of that crisis. Just human nature
431
00:14:47,199 --> 00:14:49,360
is human nature. There's a significant
432
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,279
case to be made for concern because
433
00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:53,199
while private credit isn't as massive as
434
00:14:53,199 --> 00:14:55,199
the leadup to the last crisis was, it is
435
00:14:55,199 --> 00:14:56,880
still significant. It's significant
436
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:58,880
enough to create havoc and cause lasting
437
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,639
damage in money, finance, and most of
438
00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:04,079
all most of all once again the real
439
00:15:04,079 --> 00:15:06,320
economy. These kinds of obviously
440
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,320
questionable valuation practices aren't
441
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,480
doing the industry any favors,
442
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,920
especially right now. So you get the
443
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,760
sense that everything Wall Street comes
444
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,399
up with from blackbox models to trading
445
00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:20,800
tactics to ratings assigned by agencies
446
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,199
that Wall Street itself pays for, the
447
00:15:23,199 --> 00:15:24,639
real purpose of all of it isn't to
448
00:15:24,639 --> 00:15:27,839
provide information. It's to not provide
449
00:15:27,839 --> 00:15:28,959
information. It's to create the
450
00:15:28,959 --> 00:15:31,199
impression of reassurance in lie of
451
00:15:31,199 --> 00:15:33,440
anything useful. Don't worry, we've got
452
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:34,800
it all covered. And look at all this
453
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,639
this this stuff that we have to show
454
00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:39,680
you. But when you scratch the surface,
455
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,519
you don't need to go too far to begin
456
00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:43,839
doubting whether all that's really true.
457
00:15:43,839 --> 00:15:45,600
So what we're looking for, what we're
458
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,160
doing here is when all of these things,
459
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,000
valuation problems, the investing
460
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,079
public's view on potential for losses,
461
00:15:52,079 --> 00:15:54,160
the lack of forthright information, when
462
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,040
all of that might combine to create a
463
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,759
small backlash that could then lead to a
464
00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:01,519
self-reinforcing cycle where it's no
465
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:02,959
longer really about values and credit
466
00:16:02,959 --> 00:16:05,440
portfolios. it gets to be about a lot
467
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,759
bigger things like markets and
468
00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:10,160
industries. So that's why we're watching
469
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,720
all of these various factors and
470
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,880
developments, cockroaches and garbage
471
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,040
lending and all these warnings from
472
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,759
across the credit market space itself,
473
00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:21,120
not from private credit providers.
474
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,240
They're still saying, "Hey, everything's
475
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,480
fine, fundamentally sound." And then you
476
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,320
put all of that together in the
477
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,040
macroeconomic context as PIMCO CIO
478
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,680
himself admitted, you get to some
479
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,240
economic softening and suddenly the
480
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,360
entire profile for the whole thing
481
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:38,880
shifts. Well, that's what's been going
482
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,800
on over the last couple months. The
483
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,880
marketplace, the overall marketplace,
484
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:44,720
public com, all of it, hedge fund
485
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,519
investors, they can sense that shift and
486
00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:50,160
people are getting quite a little antsy
487
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,399
about it. So, one indirect clue that we
488
00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:54,639
can turn to is the regulated banking
489
00:16:54,639 --> 00:16:56,399
sector because banks are maybe one step
490
00:16:56,399 --> 00:16:58,560
removed from shadow banks. And while we
491
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,000
shouldn't trust that they've done their
492
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,160
due diligence either, as we've seen in
493
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,120
these frauds, banks do have leverage,
494
00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:07,199
pun intended, to get more information
495
00:17:07,199 --> 00:17:09,360
than certainly we can. And going by the
496
00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:11,039
Federal Reserve's H8 statistics on
497
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:13,199
regulated bank holdings, what we see is
498
00:17:13,199 --> 00:17:15,280
they have yet to pull back pull back
499
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:16,720
completely from lending to non
500
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,039
non-depository financial institutions.
501
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:21,120
Loans to shadow banking continue to
502
00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:23,760
grow, though the rate has slowed down a
503
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,679
little bit more recently. This suggests
504
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:27,439
that bankers are at the very least
505
00:17:27,439 --> 00:17:29,120
rethinking some of their shadow banking
506
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:31,600
exposures and future exposures, though
507
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,440
they aren't ready yet to simply pull up
508
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,919
stakes and exit the space entirely. So
509
00:17:35,919 --> 00:17:38,000
maybe that's an early stage down cycle
510
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,320
signal. Though if you're an optimist on
511
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,400
the space or the economy overall, you
512
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,480
could argue, and many do right now,
513
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,080
there isn't really enough here to be
514
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,559
worried about. So maybe this is just a
515
00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:50,559
whole bunch of one-offs and a few a few
516
00:17:50,559 --> 00:17:53,280
bad cases, but no widespread proof that
517
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:54,880
private credit is heading for some kind
518
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,039
of major reckoning and then major damage
519
00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:00,320
beyond it. But then you balance that
520
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,400
optimistic take out against really the
521
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,720
real economy, but also Jaime Diamonds
522
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,960
cockroaches, gunlacks garbage, PIMCO's
523
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,799
hit on ratings, and even the Bloomberg
524
00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:10,400
editorial board's caution over
525
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,799
valuations of lack of information. And
526
00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:14,400
there really does seem to be quite a bit
527
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:15,919
of smoke billowing up from the shadow
528
00:18:15,919 --> 00:18:18,640
banking world, even if it's not yet at
529
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,799
an overwhelming amount. So that might
530
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:22,799
be, as I said, that this is all just
531
00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:25,280
early. For most people, cockroaches and
532
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:26,960
collateral fraud just showed up a couple
533
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,799
of months ago. And we have to keep in
534
00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:30,640
mind, credit cycles are processes just
535
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,720
like economic cycles. And that's another
536
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,960
thing. Flat beverage isn't all that flat
537
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,720
just yet, as we've been pointing out all
538
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,520
summer. make it flatter like the PIMCO
539
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,679
guy was saying and then suddenly we re
540
00:18:41,679 --> 00:18:43,520
then we really see pressure we really
541
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,679
see demands on private credit then the
542
00:18:45,679 --> 00:18:47,600
crisis ingredients really start to get
543
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,400
mixed up in the bowl so you see what I
544
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,960
mean here there is enough smoke here
545
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,480
it's not an overwhelming amount it
546
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,240
doesn't say hey this is thing is falling
547
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,720
apart this this is crashing right now
548
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,799
but there are enough problems and there
549
00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:02,640
are enough ingredients for future
550
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,039
problems that we do need to be careful
551
00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:06,799
we do need to scrutinize what's taking
552
00:19:06,799 --> 00:19:08,799
place and we need to keep a very
553
00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:11,440
cautious eye on all of these various
554
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,760
pieces as they might get closer and
555
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,799
closer together to combining. I mean,
556
00:19:16,799 --> 00:19:18,640
we've got the cockroaches so far and
557
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:20,880
most of the common thread in each one is
558
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,880
about the lack of care and information.
559
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,240
It's not really about the collateral so
560
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,320
much as been about everything bad that
561
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,400
you would have expected at the end stage
562
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,039
of a credit cycle. And then all of those
563
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:32,799
habits compound the problem given the
564
00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:35,039
shadow part of shadow credit. There are
565
00:19:35,039 --> 00:19:36,799
genuine reasons to be asking hard
566
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:39,039
questions and up until recently no one
567
00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:41,120
had any interest in raising again.
568
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,600
Diamonds cockroaches gunlets garbage
569
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,919
pimco on ratings Bloomberg editorial
570
00:19:45,919 --> 00:19:48,240
board valuations and information. Even
571
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:49,760
the government is throwing up red flags
572
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,320
on valuations. If all this smoke really
573
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,720
is from a credit cycle downturn fire,
574
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,880
the reason it isn't massively billing up
575
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,280
is only because, as I said, it's still
576
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,360
early in the process. Flat beverage
577
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:03,120
isn't even all that flat. Just like at
578
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:06,160
ADP for example, job losses are there
579
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,679
and they've been there for months, but
580
00:20:07,679 --> 00:20:10,480
they aren't huge numbers right now. What
581
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,400
happens to all this credit if they do
582
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,559
start to get big? That's really the
583
00:20:14,559 --> 00:20:16,559
smoke. Employment problems don't just
584
00:20:16,559 --> 00:20:18,559
mean higher potential losses in consumer
585
00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:20,880
credit. As ADP also said in its negative
586
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,280
November numbers, those job cuts were
587
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,120
coming from small employers. In other
588
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:30,480
words, in a truly flat beverage economy,
589
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,120
both workers and employers struggle
590
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:35,919
badly to stay afloat. And if private
591
00:20:35,919 --> 00:20:37,919
credit providers don't want to provide
592
00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:40,159
information that the market really badly
593
00:20:40,159 --> 00:20:42,799
needs under these circumstances, the
594
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:44,559
public, the investment public, the
595
00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:49,200
markets will make up their own minds.
596
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,200
One key out of the way signal to that
597
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,600
end from the consumer side of things,
598
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,600
Americans can't afford car insurance.
599
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:56,880
They've gone without and they've traded
600
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,280
down. I went over the details in the
601
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,440
video link below. As always, thank you
602
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,799
very much for joining me. Join me for
603
00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:04,559
URL University live. There's a link in
604
00:21:04,559 --> 00:21:05,679
the description if you want to book your
605
00:21:05,679 --> 00:21:07,600
call about that. Huge thanks to Eur
606
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:08,960
University members and subscribers. And
607
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,200
until next time, take care.44167
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.