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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:32,860 --> 00:00:38,220 Most people probably don't know what a sideman, or side woman for that matter, is. 2 00:00:39,140 --> 00:00:40,240 I'm a sideman. 3 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:42,160 Have been for 40 years. 4 00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:44,620 My name is Earl Slick. 5 00:00:44,820 --> 00:00:46,760 I was David Bowie's sideman. 6 00:00:50,020 --> 00:00:53,100 Our job as sidies is to back up the big names. 7 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:55,520 You don't compete with the lead guy. 8 00:00:55,860 --> 00:00:57,040 That's not a sideman. 9 00:00:57,041 --> 00:01:00,100 Matter of fact, that's an out-of-work musician. 10 00:01:02,100 --> 00:01:04,420 Most of the time, we are invisible. 11 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,360 Ghosts at the top table. 12 00:01:08,740 --> 00:01:13,220 Our story takes you behind the scenes with some of the world's biggest ever stars. 13 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:15,640 Our 14 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,800 job is to fit in with the star's vision. 15 00:01:30,380 --> 00:01:31,640 Personality, yes. 16 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:33,200 Evo, no. 17 00:01:42,420 --> 00:01:45,500 The sideman or side woman is mainly the star. 18 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:46,520 And the dude on tour. 19 00:01:46,700 --> 00:01:48,880 But sometimes the lines are blurred. 20 00:01:57,690 --> 00:01:59,650 Some are guitarists. 21 00:01:59,910 --> 00:02:01,030 Some singers. 22 00:02:01,390 --> 00:02:02,390 Keyboard players. 23 00:02:02,650 --> 00:02:03,650 Horn players. 24 00:02:03,690 --> 00:02:05,630 And some are all of these rolled into one. 25 00:02:06,330 --> 00:02:09,110 Our percussion and saxophone. 26 00:02:09,410 --> 00:02:11,430 Keyboard, harmonica, you name it. 27 00:02:11,690 --> 00:02:13,970 Professor Crystal Callefero. 28 00:02:16,690 --> 00:02:21,150 And for the new generation of sidies, it's a whole new ball game. 29 00:02:29,380 --> 00:02:33,520 This film tells the untold story of rock and roll's guns for hire. 30 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,120 How we began. 31 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:36,700 How we survived. 32 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,580 And how our lives are very different from what you guys imagine. 33 00:02:46,650 --> 00:02:49,707 The hard thing for a sideman is the better you 34 00:02:49,708 --> 00:02:52,530 are at your job, the less people will notice you. 35 00:02:53,030 --> 00:02:54,650 And that's the whole point. 36 00:03:14,810 --> 00:03:16,930 People always ask, do you get nervous? 37 00:03:17,610 --> 00:03:20,710 When I'm putting my clothes on and getting in my makeup, no. 38 00:03:21,290 --> 00:03:22,290 Charlie J. 39 00:03:22,430 --> 00:03:23,430 Woods. 40 00:03:24,150 --> 00:03:27,570 When I'm, you know, walking to the stage, no. 41 00:03:28,090 --> 00:03:29,470 Keith Richards. 42 00:03:31,130 --> 00:03:37,690 The minute I hit that stage, I start to feel this energy. 43 00:03:38,150 --> 00:03:40,170 Mr. Bernard Fallon. 44 00:03:45,340 --> 00:03:47,960 Drum starts and then I start to get nervous. 45 00:03:49,260 --> 00:03:52,880 Then I look out of my peripheral and then I see the boys. 46 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:54,760 They were just ordinary. 47 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,220 Now I'm looking at them and they literally turn into superheroes. 48 00:03:59,340 --> 00:04:02,000 Yeah, and the storm is coming. 49 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,180 And I'm nervous all the way up until I sing the first note. 50 00:04:06,260 --> 00:04:10,920 The minute I sing the first note, I slowly become settled. 51 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,420 And now I'm in the machine and we're running. 52 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,280 It's just a shadow, it's just a shadow. 53 00:04:24,940 --> 00:04:28,860 It's special because it's the Rolling Stones. 54 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,580 It's the world's greatest rock and roll band. 55 00:04:33,140 --> 00:04:34,140 That's special. 56 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:41,380 My friend Bernard has been side man to the Stones for 30 years. 57 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:44,120 He's very much part of the show. 58 00:04:45,660 --> 00:04:47,260 I really like working with Bernard. 59 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,500 It's really nice having him there. 60 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,520 I mean, most of the show when he's out there, he's out there with a light on him 61 00:04:52,521 --> 00:04:55,903 in front of like 60,000 people and stepping forward 62 00:04:55,904 --> 00:04:58,240 and joking around and he's definitely there. 63 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,420 And he's introduced, his name is called, he's applauded. 64 00:05:01,500 --> 00:05:03,100 He's part of this team. 65 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,520 I think he's very good at what he does. 66 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,180 He's hardworking, he doesn't screw up. 67 00:05:16,580 --> 00:05:20,540 I mean, I'm not very good at learning from other vocalists. 68 00:05:20,740 --> 00:05:25,900 I mean, I probably could learn a lot from him if I put my mind to it. 69 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:36,580 Bernard brings a reliability to Mick from sound check where they have a rapport and 70 00:05:36,581 --> 00:05:40,540 a strength that carries on to the live gig where it's got to be delivered right. 71 00:05:40,700 --> 00:05:42,440 Wait for it, wait for it. 72 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,580 No, not yet, not yet. 73 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:46,500 Here. 74 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,720 I think there's been a couple of other times where, either for one reason or 75 00:05:50,721 --> 00:05:53,520 another, Mick get off stage and blow his nose or whatever. 76 00:05:55,660 --> 00:05:58,820 And he's taken over for a verse or two. 77 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,960 It would be very, very difficult to think of the Stones without him. 78 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,440 God, I rely on him for so many things on stage because he knows exactly what's 79 00:06:16,441 --> 00:06:18,920 going on and sometimes I'm lost in the haze. 80 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:24,280 I like that. 81 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:24,600 Here we go. 82 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,020 And all I do is look at V and he goes... 83 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:28,880 Right. 84 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:30,360 That's good. 85 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,340 Come on now, you can't... 86 00:06:32,341 --> 00:06:35,928 To be versatile and to be like a fireman as well, 87 00:06:35,929 --> 00:06:40,040 probably another requirement of an ultimate sideman. 88 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:45,249 I mean, we did 30 years without any backups, 89 00:06:45,250 --> 00:06:49,480 but he certainly brings quality and class to it. 90 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,167 For me, Bernard Fowler is one of the best guys and 91 00:06:52,168 --> 00:06:56,580 one of the best undiscovered voices in America. 92 00:07:00,150 --> 00:07:01,330 I love the Stones. 93 00:07:01,370 --> 00:07:03,130 I've watched their children grow up. 94 00:07:03,310 --> 00:07:04,850 I love the music. 95 00:07:05,110 --> 00:07:06,970 They're like family at this point. 96 00:07:09,110 --> 00:07:12,682 I look at Bernard and I see the Rolling Stones 97 00:07:12,683 --> 00:07:16,810 and I go, man, these guys sing with the boys, man. 98 00:07:16,910 --> 00:07:20,350 He's singing with the boys, not for them, not background vocals. 99 00:07:20,610 --> 00:07:22,030 That's how I see it. 100 00:07:22,031 --> 00:07:23,950 Look, nothing against the audience. 101 00:07:24,190 --> 00:07:27,250 The audience gets caught up with the Rolling Stones, they get caught up with 102 00:07:27,251 --> 00:07:29,571 David Bowie, they get caught up with the Beatles, whatever. 103 00:07:29,850 --> 00:07:31,950 You are just an appendage of that. 104 00:07:32,310 --> 00:07:39,970 And I remember walking into some club and some guy said, that's Bernard Fowler. 105 00:07:40,470 --> 00:07:42,850 He's a backup singer for the Rolling Stones. 106 00:07:43,210 --> 00:07:48,290 And the guy said, bullshit, ain't no black people in the Rolling Stones. 107 00:07:48,810 --> 00:07:50,150 LAUGHTER LAUGHTER 108 00:07:53,290 --> 00:07:56,950 This guy's obviously seen all the shows. 109 00:07:59,870 --> 00:08:03,250 It's your job not to horn in in any way whatsoever. 110 00:08:03,810 --> 00:08:07,710 That word side takes on all connotations, you know. 111 00:08:07,870 --> 00:08:09,190 You're to be invisible. 112 00:08:09,530 --> 00:08:11,730 That's the sublimation of the ego. 113 00:08:12,590 --> 00:08:15,090 A big ego is no good for a sideman. 114 00:08:15,610 --> 00:08:21,771 You've got to know who you are, where you stand in the hierarchy of things. 115 00:08:22,590 --> 00:08:25,450 If you're a background vocalist, that's what you have to accept. 116 00:08:25,650 --> 00:08:27,770 You might say it's a bit of an indignity. 117 00:08:27,970 --> 00:08:29,490 But, you know, if you're clever enough, you'll 118 00:08:29,510 --> 00:08:32,070 understand that, you know, there's a reason I don't... 119 00:08:32,071 --> 00:08:34,551 It's not because you're ugly and I don't want you on the stage. 120 00:08:41,650 --> 00:08:43,770 I grew up in Long Island City, Queens. 121 00:08:44,050 --> 00:08:46,670 I grew up in a place called Queensbridge Project. 122 00:08:47,150 --> 00:08:50,210 If you're taking the subway, it's the first stop outside of Manhattan. 123 00:08:52,570 --> 00:08:54,030 Queensbridge was a rough area. 124 00:08:54,650 --> 00:08:56,350 Really rough when I was growing up. 125 00:08:56,550 --> 00:08:58,670 And it stayed that way for a long time. 126 00:09:00,630 --> 00:09:02,850 This used to be a really bad area. 127 00:09:03,050 --> 00:09:04,790 And I was part of the bad area. 128 00:09:05,110 --> 00:09:06,970 Before I came to my senses. 129 00:09:07,870 --> 00:09:09,130 I was really young. 130 00:09:10,510 --> 00:09:14,550 And I was doing like a lot of young black kids in the inner city. 131 00:09:14,670 --> 00:09:15,670 I was hustling. 132 00:09:16,030 --> 00:09:17,470 And here come the rollers. 133 00:09:17,850 --> 00:09:19,230 The cops come in. 134 00:09:19,770 --> 00:09:21,690 We're scattering like roaches. 135 00:09:21,691 --> 00:09:23,290 Everybody's throwing their shit. 136 00:09:23,510 --> 00:09:24,590 Throwing their shit. 137 00:09:24,710 --> 00:09:25,830 I threw my shit. 138 00:09:26,110 --> 00:09:29,450 And the cop came by with his flashlight. 139 00:09:30,330 --> 00:09:31,790 And he looked at me. 140 00:09:33,250 --> 00:09:35,230 And he said, you know what, Fowler? 141 00:09:36,250 --> 00:09:37,670 I can take you to jail. 142 00:09:39,310 --> 00:09:40,630 I know your mother. 143 00:09:41,430 --> 00:09:42,790 I know Miss Pearl. 144 00:09:44,150 --> 00:09:48,650 He said, if I catch you down here again, if I catch you down here again, 145 00:09:49,330 --> 00:09:51,210 I'm taking your ass to jail. 146 00:09:51,211 --> 00:09:52,906 I don't care whether I know your mother or not. 147 00:09:52,930 --> 00:09:54,290 Your ass is going to jail. 148 00:09:56,110 --> 00:09:57,430 That was a wake-up call. 149 00:10:03,630 --> 00:10:07,410 Bernard, like most of us sighties, didn't set out to be a backing musician. 150 00:10:08,410 --> 00:10:10,390 Most of us wanted to be the star. 151 00:10:11,250 --> 00:10:12,250 Hell yeah. 152 00:10:17,090 --> 00:10:19,790 We put this band together, The Peach Boys. 153 00:10:20,530 --> 00:10:23,330 The next thing you know, we were in the studio. 154 00:10:23,331 --> 00:10:28,390 I went in and sang this song, Don't Make Me Wait. 155 00:10:30,110 --> 00:10:31,710 It took off. 156 00:10:31,730 --> 00:10:35,050 We were king of the airwaves when that record came out. 157 00:10:36,410 --> 00:10:40,010 Every club that you go, you hear Bernard. 158 00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:43,110 So he started to build up his name. 159 00:10:43,850 --> 00:10:46,391 And I wouldn't call it as a background singer 160 00:10:46,392 --> 00:10:48,630 because a lot of this stuff was lead vocal. 161 00:10:48,970 --> 00:10:53,310 I drank from the day of my life. 162 00:10:54,370 --> 00:10:57,530 And I had done some pretty diverse records. 163 00:10:58,030 --> 00:11:01,010 And when vocals were needed, I thought of Bernard. 164 00:11:03,630 --> 00:11:07,870 But just as Bernard was becoming a respected frontman in his own right 165 00:11:07,871 --> 00:11:11,550 touring the world, he got a call from producer Bill Laswell. 166 00:11:11,930 --> 00:11:14,370 The call was going to change the rest of his life. 167 00:11:16,150 --> 00:11:17,210 I go home. 168 00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:19,410 Bill Laswell calls me. 169 00:11:19,530 --> 00:11:20,790 Hey, man, what you doing, man? 170 00:11:22,130 --> 00:11:23,230 Said nothing, man. 171 00:11:24,530 --> 00:11:24,930 Cool. 172 00:11:25,510 --> 00:11:26,510 Go to the airport. 173 00:11:26,690 --> 00:11:28,350 I'm like, nah, man, you don't understand. 174 00:11:28,570 --> 00:11:30,610 I just came from the airport. 175 00:11:30,670 --> 00:11:33,050 I just walked into my apartment. 176 00:11:33,570 --> 00:11:35,150 He says, go back to the airport. 177 00:11:35,790 --> 00:11:38,510 I said, Bill, you don't understand. 178 00:11:38,670 --> 00:11:39,910 I just walked in. 179 00:11:40,270 --> 00:11:41,270 Go back to the airport. 180 00:11:42,370 --> 00:11:43,590 So I go back to the airport. 181 00:11:43,950 --> 00:11:46,350 Say to the lady, is there a ticket here for me? 182 00:11:47,950 --> 00:11:49,150 This is the good old days. 183 00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:51,350 Yes, we have a first-class ticket for you to go to. 184 00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:52,550 I said, where am I going? 185 00:11:52,551 --> 00:11:52,630 Where are you going? 186 00:11:52,650 --> 00:11:54,146 She said, you don't know where you're going. 187 00:11:54,170 --> 00:11:55,270 No, you're going to London. 188 00:11:57,230 --> 00:11:58,510 I arrive in London. 189 00:11:58,830 --> 00:12:00,210 Still don't know why I'm there. 190 00:12:00,850 --> 00:12:02,190 Bill picks me up. 191 00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:03,730 Huge black Bentley. 192 00:12:05,210 --> 00:12:07,330 We walk up the steps to this house. 193 00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:09,710 Ding dong. 194 00:12:10,130 --> 00:12:11,230 Bill walks in. 195 00:12:11,390 --> 00:12:12,670 I walk in behind him. 196 00:12:13,030 --> 00:12:15,930 There's a guy sitting on the floor with a guitar in his hand. 197 00:12:16,290 --> 00:12:18,750 And the guy turned around and looked at me. 198 00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:20,350 It was Mick. 199 00:12:21,010 --> 00:12:22,650 I had no idea. 200 00:12:24,370 --> 00:12:25,670 I'm standing there. 201 00:12:25,890 --> 00:12:30,050 I'm saying to myself, oh shit, oh shit. 202 00:12:30,290 --> 00:12:33,290 That's all I could think was oh shit. 203 00:12:33,790 --> 00:12:37,710 He gives me a cassette and he says, you know, when we get to the studio 204 00:12:37,711 --> 00:12:40,370 tomorrow, this is the stuff that we're going to be working on. 205 00:12:40,930 --> 00:12:45,288 So I went back to the hotel and I did all the 206 00:12:45,289 --> 00:12:49,991 vocal arrangements on this four track machine. 207 00:12:50,270 --> 00:12:51,330 Just another night. 208 00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:53,230 Just another night. 209 00:12:53,250 --> 00:12:56,530 He did some good things on She's the Boss album. 210 00:12:56,830 --> 00:12:58,790 We worked together quite closely on that. 211 00:12:58,950 --> 00:13:01,170 I can't remember exactly what we did. 212 00:13:01,171 --> 00:13:01,850 It's a long time ago. 213 00:13:02,110 --> 00:13:03,530 But we worked quite closely. 214 00:13:09,780 --> 00:13:12,660 I did all the vocal arrangements for She's the Boss. 215 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:18,680 That means all the choruses and all the background stuff. 216 00:13:19,300 --> 00:13:22,660 All the vocals you hear other than his lead, I did. 217 00:13:24,420 --> 00:13:25,700 I got the chacophane... 218 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,760 You pray the Queen I pray the name... 219 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,800 Oh... I'm lucky at love... 220 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:42,240 A change... Normally I do most of my own harmonies. 221 00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:44,980 But he can change his vocal style to fit in with yours. 222 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,080 So it sounds like me singing twice. 223 00:13:48,420 --> 00:13:49,420 He can make it that. 224 00:13:49,540 --> 00:13:53,441 Or he can make it sound like another person so we can sound like two different people. 225 00:13:58,940 --> 00:14:02,140 The relationship was very easy with Mick and I. 226 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:10,360 It got not so easy once the band came. 227 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:18,961 Bernard finally got to work with all of the Stones on their Steel Wheels album in 89. 228 00:14:22,820 --> 00:14:26,336 Mick calls and says, you know, Stones are getting ready 229 00:14:26,337 --> 00:14:29,160 to do a new record, and I can really use your help. 230 00:14:29,620 --> 00:14:32,980 I'm like, okay, cool, but where are you? 231 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,560 You know, he gives me the address to the studio. 232 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,000 One by one, the Stones started coming in. 233 00:14:40,420 --> 00:14:41,760 Charlie coming in. 234 00:14:43,220 --> 00:14:44,800 I'm like, oh shit. 235 00:14:45,740 --> 00:14:47,380 You know, I say oh shit a lot. 236 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:49,600 Bill Wyman comes in. 237 00:14:49,860 --> 00:14:50,860 Oh shit. 238 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,580 Ronnie Wood walks in. 239 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,200 Hey. 240 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:57,360 Cool. 241 00:14:57,580 --> 00:14:58,940 Keith walks in. 242 00:14:59,060 --> 00:15:00,060 Oh shit. 243 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,660 And I'm in there, you know, coming up with the ideas. 244 00:15:06,420 --> 00:15:09,242 That's when Mick says, hey, okay, I like the 245 00:15:09,243 --> 00:15:11,580 idea, so let's go and do it for real now. 246 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:12,780 Not bad. 247 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:13,260 Nice. 248 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,520 I feel some heat. 249 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,220 And Keith is looking at me. 250 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,780 And I'm like, oh man, this is not good. 251 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,360 I'm looking at this dreadlock, you know. 252 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,920 This staring went on, it went on way too long. 253 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,160 So I said, I got to say something to this cat man. 254 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,660 I looked at him and I said, is everything all right? 255 00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:43,100 At which point he says, you know, I didn't want to like you. 256 00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:46,900 And I'm like, again, oh shit. 257 00:15:49,860 --> 00:15:51,460 I said, why man? 258 00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:52,260 I said, uh-uh. 259 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:53,560 I said, I'm cool. 260 00:15:55,380 --> 00:16:00,000 And he says, I thought you were one of Mick's boys. 261 00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:02,360 I'm like, oh. 262 00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:08,120 Because Mick and I were on it like, oh, anybody that Mick picks up is not 263 00:16:08,121 --> 00:16:10,360 going to end up on a Rolling Stones session, you know. 264 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,340 And then he says, I know you're cool. 265 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:18,480 Cool. 266 00:16:19,060 --> 00:16:20,880 You know, we get on with work. 267 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,060 And we were working so well together. 268 00:16:23,580 --> 00:16:27,960 That day, you know, we became firm friends. 269 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,920 And it was a funny way of meeting, you know. 270 00:16:44,350 --> 00:16:49,050 When Bernard is singing background, he's a support singer. 271 00:16:49,290 --> 00:16:52,410 You know, he is supporting what they're doing. 272 00:16:56,330 --> 00:17:00,710 And it's interesting because a lot of singers, when they're doing background and 273 00:17:00,711 --> 00:17:05,891 can sing lead as well as he sings, usually one or the other thing will suffer. 274 00:17:06,930 --> 00:17:09,949 Either the background singing isn't strong or you can't 275 00:17:09,950 --> 00:17:12,471 remember parts or you can't do this or you can't do that. 276 00:17:12,910 --> 00:17:15,650 There's like nothing in my book that he can't do. 277 00:17:16,130 --> 00:17:18,490 Once he says, yeah, I got this. 278 00:17:19,190 --> 00:17:22,050 Call me the jungle in the night. 279 00:17:23,530 --> 00:17:24,130 Call me the jungle in the night. 280 00:17:24,131 --> 00:17:25,710 I've always thought about Bernard. 281 00:17:26,090 --> 00:17:28,230 That guy is actually too good. 282 00:17:28,370 --> 00:17:33,130 But at the same time, I understand it because he just loves to work with the Stones. 283 00:17:33,470 --> 00:17:35,510 Call me the jungle in the night. 284 00:17:35,511 --> 00:17:39,630 You know, coming up through the ranks, something that was always important to me 285 00:17:39,631 --> 00:17:44,075 was to be acknowledged and respected by the 286 00:17:44,076 --> 00:17:48,150 people that seemed to be above where I was. 287 00:17:48,250 --> 00:17:51,150 The people that I wanted to play with, you know. 288 00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:57,090 That's something that I always, I look for that more than anything, 289 00:17:57,310 --> 00:18:00,870 to be received by those cats. 290 00:18:01,010 --> 00:18:03,790 Those cats that are out there doing it, you know. 291 00:18:03,930 --> 00:18:06,810 They're someplace that I've strived to be. 292 00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:10,410 And that means I'm good enough to hang. 293 00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:13,110 I'm good enough to hang out with them. 294 00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:16,550 I'm good enough not just hang out with them, I'm good enough to play with them. 295 00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:18,830 Yeah, that's a validation. 296 00:18:22,450 --> 00:18:25,125 The validation that Bernard feels when he is 297 00:18:25,126 --> 00:18:27,770 with the Rolling Stones is what we all want. 298 00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:30,950 To feel part of something rather than an outsider. 299 00:18:33,570 --> 00:18:38,370 I worked for 40 years on and off with David Bowie and it defined my life. 300 00:18:38,970 --> 00:18:41,330 But playing music was never a choice. 301 00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:42,890 It was a calling. 302 00:18:45,810 --> 00:18:47,290 I was a lousy student. 303 00:18:47,550 --> 00:18:48,730 I can't take orders. 304 00:18:48,930 --> 00:18:51,410 I don't like being pushed around and not being told what to do. 305 00:18:51,470 --> 00:18:55,290 So that eliminates probably 99% of the job market right there. 306 00:18:57,930 --> 00:19:01,050 I sucked in school, so college was out. 307 00:19:01,210 --> 00:19:02,610 I barely got through high school. 308 00:19:02,910 --> 00:19:04,350 And I just loved it. 309 00:19:04,770 --> 00:19:06,790 First of all, I just loved playing and listening, 310 00:19:06,791 --> 00:19:09,351 which I did 24 hours a day and still do. 311 00:19:10,490 --> 00:19:12,830 But I didn't even know what the hell a sideman was. 312 00:19:12,990 --> 00:19:17,630 I never sat around thinking, boy, I'd like to be so-and-so's guitar player. 313 00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:24,770 By the time I was 18, I had my own band and a new name to go with it. 314 00:19:27,890 --> 00:19:29,650 He created a persona. 315 00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:33,130 Instead of Frank Mataloni, now he was Earl Slick. 316 00:19:33,210 --> 00:19:34,830 That sounds pretty good, you know. 317 00:19:35,070 --> 00:19:36,270 He had the look. 318 00:19:36,271 --> 00:19:37,271 He had the attitude. 319 00:19:37,550 --> 00:19:38,830 He had the arrogance. 320 00:19:39,050 --> 00:19:39,850 He had the certainty. 321 00:19:40,010 --> 00:19:41,010 He had the cockiness. 322 00:19:43,730 --> 00:19:47,610 In 1974, I got a call from a British guy called David Bowie. 323 00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:53,650 I wasn't really that familiar with his work, but I thought, what the hell? 324 00:19:55,830 --> 00:19:57,946 I'm sitting there like a jerk for a couple of minutes. 325 00:19:57,970 --> 00:20:01,418 And then comes in this skinny, spooky-ass 326 00:20:01,419 --> 00:20:04,450 looking guy with bright red hair and no eyebrows. 327 00:20:04,570 --> 00:20:05,150 I said, no eyebrows. 328 00:20:05,310 --> 00:20:06,310 I was like, what? 329 00:20:06,670 --> 00:20:07,670 Anyway, he sat down. 330 00:20:07,710 --> 00:20:08,190 He was great. 331 00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:08,610 It was David. 332 00:20:08,750 --> 00:20:09,610 And he was great. 333 00:20:09,690 --> 00:20:10,830 He had a guitar with him. 334 00:20:11,790 --> 00:20:13,110 Jacket with a bottle of brandy. 335 00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:14,590 Guy just threw it down. 336 00:20:15,570 --> 00:20:16,810 And we played. 337 00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:18,490 Had some brandy. 338 00:20:18,491 --> 00:20:19,651 We talked for a little while. 339 00:20:19,930 --> 00:20:20,810 It was fun. 340 00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:21,870 It was pleasant. 341 00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:22,830 And he said, great. 342 00:20:22,990 --> 00:20:25,670 You can talk to my assistant and we'll let you know what's going on. 343 00:20:26,330 --> 00:20:28,090 Phone rang the next morning, thank God. 344 00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:30,830 He said, David wants to know if you're interested in doing this. 345 00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:32,550 And that's where it all started. 346 00:20:33,230 --> 00:20:34,650 I went for the for sure shot. 347 00:20:35,730 --> 00:20:37,430 And that's when the Sideman thing started. 348 00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:39,350 That was not my goal. 349 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,160 David could have taken... 350 00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:54,580 on any guitarist of any level of skill, but instead he took on this talented, 351 00:20:54,740 --> 00:20:58,200 but raw, young, kind of unbridled spirit from Brooklyn. 352 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:04,620 And I think coming to know David as I did, I really see, you know, why he did that. 353 00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:07,832 He really dialed into sort of people's spirit, people's 354 00:21:07,833 --> 00:21:09,940 vibe, you know, what they could bring to the situation. 355 00:21:09,941 --> 00:21:12,740 Not just musically, but personality-wise. 356 00:21:15,580 --> 00:21:19,620 Dialing into what you could bring to the artist is what all Sidemen want. 357 00:21:20,420 --> 00:21:24,140 David didn't tell me what to play, but what to do. 358 00:21:24,740 --> 00:21:28,060 He allowed me to express myself within his music. 359 00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:33,240 He accepted me as part of his vision. 360 00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:35,220 I wasn't an outsider. 361 00:21:52,510 --> 00:21:59,990 I was a child. 362 00:22:00,050 --> 00:22:00,230 And I was a young boy when I was a teenager. 363 00:22:00,231 --> 00:22:00,510 I didn't know what to do, what to do, what to do. 364 00:22:00,511 --> 00:22:00,890 I never knew what to do. 365 00:22:01,190 --> 00:22:01,490 You never know what to do. 366 00:22:01,650 --> 00:22:03,610 Then I realized... This is what I found out. 367 00:22:03,611 --> 00:22:08,650 Uh -huh. 368 00:22:10,030 --> 00:22:14,810 And he would look at me in this big smile, just before even the solos came in. 369 00:22:14,910 --> 00:22:17,630 He had this big smile on his face, man. 370 00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:20,230 And that would drive me home, man. 371 00:22:20,350 --> 00:22:21,350 That would drive me home. 372 00:22:26,580 --> 00:22:30,080 Respect for what we bring to the table is what we sideys live off. 373 00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:32,380 It makes you go that extra mile. 374 00:22:36,670 --> 00:22:41,250 But I never forgot that it was David Bowie's name on the billboard, not mine. 375 00:22:45,540 --> 00:22:49,700 But there are times when sideys are thrust right into the spotlight. 376 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,520 Almost as visible as the stars themselves. 377 00:22:57,810 --> 00:23:01,510 When Prince became Prince in the Revolution, he wanted sidemen. 378 00:23:02,290 --> 00:23:07,470 Or in this case, sidewomen who could bring something a little extra to the party. 379 00:23:08,130 --> 00:23:09,390 And look the part. 380 00:23:10,590 --> 00:23:12,470 That would be Wendy and Lisa. 381 00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:37,750 I think Prince's vision about the band being mixed, male, female, black, 382 00:23:37,950 --> 00:23:43,370 Jewish, that was a very conscious decision and a desire on his part. 383 00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:49,970 Lisa and I, not only being female, we were lovers. 384 00:23:50,490 --> 00:23:52,330 We were a couple. 385 00:23:53,670 --> 00:23:56,510 And he was like, oh my God, it's female? 386 00:23:56,730 --> 00:23:57,750 It's gay? 387 00:23:57,751 --> 00:23:59,810 And everybody just freaking, right? 388 00:24:00,010 --> 00:24:02,370 It's controversy, this is it, oh my god! 389 00:24:05,390 --> 00:24:09,670 Back then with new wave music, a lot of bands were coming out with girls. 390 00:24:10,270 --> 00:24:13,130 And it was just a novelty, I think, at first. 391 00:24:13,310 --> 00:24:18,970 And just a sexy, arm candy, somebody to play that role. 392 00:24:22,890 --> 00:24:26,505 But Wendy and I turned it into power instead of just 393 00:24:26,506 --> 00:24:29,290 like a frilly little something pretty to look at. 394 00:24:30,550 --> 00:24:35,070 I had like 80s stockings and I was like, yeah, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna add a 395 00:24:35,071 --> 00:24:39,690 nastiness to it, so I'll accept the garter because I am playful. 396 00:24:41,210 --> 00:24:43,870 But I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna show you my tits. 397 00:24:45,570 --> 00:24:48,950 I was the female facilitator so that he had all the control. 398 00:24:48,970 --> 00:24:53,550 He had all the room to be like this sexy, hot, androgynous tornado, right? 399 00:24:55,510 --> 00:25:01,650 He knew where to dig and once he found his gold, it was like, I'm free now. 400 00:25:02,130 --> 00:25:04,450 And we were perfect frame. 401 00:25:04,910 --> 00:25:06,610 And that is great. 402 00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:07,870 Side players. 403 00:25:09,130 --> 00:25:14,370 Give that front person the freedom to fall on their asses. 404 00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:16,941 You make sure that they've got the perfect little 405 00:25:16,942 --> 00:25:19,651 environment to be the freak they want to be. 406 00:25:24,430 --> 00:25:26,330 Wendy and Lisa got Prince. 407 00:25:26,610 --> 00:25:27,750 They understood him. 408 00:25:28,010 --> 00:25:29,990 Knew what he needed before he did. 409 00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:32,870 And boy, could they play. 410 00:25:36,970 --> 00:25:39,250 And again, clusters all the time. 411 00:25:39,650 --> 00:25:42,850 Lisa was actually a trained, serious player. 412 00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:47,610 Lisa could push back to Prince because she was the only player 413 00:25:47,611 --> 00:25:51,490 who could do things better than he could on her instrument. 414 00:25:53,450 --> 00:25:55,350 Wendy and Lisa had grown up together. 415 00:25:55,970 --> 00:26:00,190 Lisa essentially invited Wendy to come along on some of the tours. 416 00:26:00,390 --> 00:26:01,970 And she was around. 417 00:26:02,430 --> 00:26:04,710 She knows the parts and she can play. 418 00:26:04,930 --> 00:26:08,990 And apparently Prince is kind of, you know, knocked sideways in that moment. 419 00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:11,930 Like, that's not just Lisa's friend, that's a real player. 420 00:26:14,450 --> 00:26:15,550 On Purple Rain. 421 00:26:16,190 --> 00:26:18,350 There's a song called Computer Blue. 422 00:26:18,810 --> 00:26:20,930 I mean, we co-wrote that song with Prince. 423 00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:25,830 He came up with an idea and said, I just, I need to put the frame in it. 424 00:26:25,870 --> 00:26:28,970 I got to put it in the pot and put the pressure cooker on now. 425 00:26:29,050 --> 00:26:30,290 Let's see what we come up with. 426 00:26:34,250 --> 00:26:36,650 I started playing the lead line to this. 427 00:26:40,910 --> 00:26:44,948 When we were first writing the song, the lead line came 428 00:26:44,949 --> 00:26:47,950 out of Wendy and I just fooling around with synth sounds. 429 00:26:48,190 --> 00:26:50,390 And I think that really inspired Prince. 430 00:26:50,970 --> 00:26:55,230 I think he thought that was a really important part of the song and the groove. 431 00:26:58,350 --> 00:27:02,010 He just was like, yeah, high five and a writing credit. 432 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,681 I find that a great task for me as someone who 433 00:27:11,682 --> 00:27:15,200 tries to be as good of a musician as I can be. 434 00:27:15,201 --> 00:27:19,780 Not just an instrumentalist, but what can I offer the artist to be better? 435 00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:24,354 The song Purple Rain in the movie, he says, you know, 436 00:27:24,355 --> 00:27:26,561 I'd like to perform a song that the girls wrote. 437 00:27:27,340 --> 00:27:33,340 I had an interview and someone misquoted me when asked, did you write Purple Rain? 438 00:27:33,540 --> 00:27:35,480 And the answer in the print was yes. 439 00:27:35,980 --> 00:27:40,660 I get a phone call from Prince and he's extremely upset. 440 00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:43,860 Why did you say that? 441 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,620 Do you think you wrote Purple Rain? 442 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,200 And I said, stop. 443 00:27:54,460 --> 00:27:55,460 No. 444 00:27:56,060 --> 00:27:57,660 But we helped you. 445 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,540 Prince walked in the room and said, here's the chord progressions. 446 00:28:03,780 --> 00:28:07,800 I thought to myself, oh, it's like a very country progression. 447 00:28:07,820 --> 00:28:14,900 And what I pride myself on is finding a way to re-harmonize something. 448 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,360 Something that's very simple. 449 00:28:17,980 --> 00:28:20,480 I never meant to cause you any sorrow. 450 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,003 So I played the chords, but I stretched bottom 451 00:28:24,004 --> 00:28:26,541 notes and I put ninths, different shades. 452 00:28:26,780 --> 00:28:28,940 I never meant to cause you any pain. 453 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,180 Here comes the chords. 454 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,920 Those are the opening chords of Purple Rain. 455 00:28:48,921 --> 00:28:51,200 Did I write Purple Rain? 456 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:52,720 No. 457 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,815 But would Purple Rain have been the song that 458 00:28:56,816 --> 00:29:00,360 you hear to this day without Chef coming in? 459 00:29:00,420 --> 00:29:02,320 This is the dish I want to cook. 460 00:29:02,620 --> 00:29:05,280 I've assembled an incredible crew here. 461 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:06,520 What are we going to do? 462 00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:11,120 I never meant to cause you any... 463 00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:19,310 I never meant to cause you any... 464 00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:35,750 To see you laughing... 465 00:29:43,550 --> 00:29:47,110 The version of Purple Rain used in the film is a recording 466 00:29:47,111 --> 00:29:49,511 of Wendy's first live appearance with The Revolution. 467 00:29:50,510 --> 00:29:52,830 She was just 19 years old. 468 00:29:55,070 --> 00:29:59,130 I wanted to be a great guitar player in a great band. 469 00:29:59,590 --> 00:30:01,870 I wanted to be a great player. 470 00:30:01,871 --> 00:30:06,062 But there's ambivalence about that role that I 471 00:30:06,063 --> 00:30:10,231 had and what I knew Lisa and I were giving him. 472 00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:15,090 I did have moments of anger at him. 473 00:30:15,770 --> 00:30:19,470 I always wanted him to say, You're great! 474 00:30:20,370 --> 00:30:22,870 God, I couldn't do this without you! 475 00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:24,510 Man! 476 00:30:25,530 --> 00:30:29,490 It never... That didn't come out of his mouth. 477 00:30:31,290 --> 00:30:38,270 Prince made it perfectly clear that if you were there and you had that role and you 478 00:30:38,271 --> 00:30:41,450 were next to him playing, that was his validation. 479 00:30:41,890 --> 00:30:46,930 But in the spirit of full disclosure, I wanted his validation. 480 00:30:55,100 --> 00:31:00,300 But when it came right down to it, he had every right to ignore you. 481 00:31:00,820 --> 00:31:02,400 He hired you. 482 00:31:03,260 --> 00:31:05,220 He wanted to do this thing. 483 00:31:05,380 --> 00:31:07,160 And he was signed to Warner Brothers. 484 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,640 And it wasn't specified. 485 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:14,960 There wasn't a distinction made that you are now going to partake in my soup. 486 00:31:16,580 --> 00:31:19,300 It was just like, this is going to be awesome. 487 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,420 Aren't you going to have fun? 488 00:31:21,620 --> 00:31:22,620 I'm having fun. 489 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:23,800 And we're like, yeah! 490 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,740 I'll get it, baby! 491 00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:37,480 Being on stage in front of tens of thousands of people alongside Prince, 492 00:31:37,481 --> 00:31:41,420 or Bowie, or whoever, is a pretty special feeling. 493 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:42,760 It is. 494 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,380 But what all of us sideys have to accept is that we are not the stars. 495 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,460 I knew where I was in the pecking order with David Bowie. 496 00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:57,060 I was the gun for hire with a job to do. 497 00:31:57,660 --> 00:32:00,420 As sidemen, we are there to support. 498 00:32:04,830 --> 00:32:12,110 If he's tired or a little distracted, he relied on me to take that spot. 499 00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:13,490 That's my job. 500 00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:19,030 Slick could be a foil. 501 00:32:19,170 --> 00:32:21,870 That was definitely part of what he did for David. 502 00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:26,010 Slick was really maybe the more animal of the two. 503 00:32:26,210 --> 00:32:30,330 And that animal element really needed to be there, that earthiness. 504 00:32:30,610 --> 00:32:32,950 And Slicky was really that personified. 505 00:32:36,030 --> 00:32:37,510 But it's still his tour. 506 00:32:37,930 --> 00:32:42,870 So to make it his tour, to make sure that he came looking in the best light, 507 00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:47,950 my job is to catch him when he's going to fall down, make sure that I pick up the 508 00:32:47,951 --> 00:32:52,510 energy if he doesn't have it, and make it work on that stage. 509 00:32:52,970 --> 00:32:54,110 That's my sideman. 510 00:32:54,170 --> 00:32:55,170 That's what I do. 511 00:32:56,770 --> 00:33:00,868 And you've got to remember, because I've seen sidemen go 512 00:33:00,869 --> 00:33:03,670 sideways, all of a sudden they think they're the star. 513 00:33:04,730 --> 00:33:05,730 Uh-uh. 514 00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:07,070 Bad move. 515 00:33:07,150 --> 00:33:07,510 . 516 00:33:07,511 --> 00:33:08,511 . 517 00:33:13,650 --> 00:33:20,450 They work together in a sonic way, and they can work together visually. 518 00:33:20,970 --> 00:33:23,030 Earl never upstages David. 519 00:33:23,290 --> 00:33:28,450 You know, it's just kind of a great match -up of mutual respect. 520 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,560 When I worked with David, I got to play both on the road and in the studio. 521 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,340 And for me, that was just great. 522 00:33:53,220 --> 00:33:58,080 But there are also those players who are only hired to work in the studio. 523 00:34:00,340 --> 00:34:01,840 The session musicians. 524 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,600 I mean, there are guys that just do sessions. 525 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:10,920 They don't go on the road. 526 00:34:11,020 --> 00:34:12,680 They don't necessarily ever play live. 527 00:34:13,860 --> 00:34:18,060 So I think that's the difference between a session man and a sideman. 528 00:34:18,180 --> 00:34:21,940 A sideman is expecting to play to an audience live. 529 00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:24,100 A session man... 530 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,560 maybe never plays live or only occasionally. 531 00:34:28,820 --> 00:34:34,100 A session player, you think of him being in recording studios, but the sideman has 532 00:34:34,101 --> 00:34:36,740 a little more input to the artist they're working with. 533 00:34:36,860 --> 00:34:39,440 His feedback is amazingly important. 534 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,600 You know, but I've been in recording sessions where I've changed the whole vibe 535 00:34:44,601 --> 00:34:47,800 of the studio, you know, just based on what I've played. 536 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,180 Sometimes that's not wanted by the artist, and it's not comfortable. 537 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,120 This is not your gig, they'll say. 538 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:56,740 This is not your gig. 539 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,080 What are you telling us? 540 00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,400 We have a vision. 541 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,060 Your job is to execute it. 542 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,540 Executing the vision of the artist was extremely important for session players, 543 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:10,880 especially in the 60s. 544 00:35:12,220 --> 00:35:17,740 But one guy who I really looked up to and successfully combined the roles of session 545 00:35:17,741 --> 00:35:21,540 man and sideman was guitar legend Steve Cropper. 546 00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:27,520 Hey, call me back. 547 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,620 I'm in the middle of an interview doing a video. 548 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:30,880 Okay. 549 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:33,320 Sound pretty good. 550 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,420 Steve Cropper was part of the Stax record label based out of Memphis, Tennessee. 551 00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:49,940 I would say that Steve Cropper, without a doubt, is one of the greatest 552 00:35:49,941 --> 00:35:54,480 sideman session men I've ever seen in my life. 553 00:35:55,100 --> 00:36:00,540 Because he could adapt to whatever the flavor and role would be in a credible way. 554 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,100 And his commitment to it would be all in. 555 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,140 And that was the thing that made Steve special. 556 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,673 When we first heard Booker T's stuff, we naturally 557 00:36:12,674 --> 00:36:15,441 assumed it was an all-black affair, you know. 558 00:36:15,620 --> 00:36:18,964 And it was quite a maze to find out that Steve was 559 00:36:18,965 --> 00:36:22,400 white and Duck Dunn, the bass player, was also white. 560 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,720 But at the time, this was still pretty unique. 561 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:33,720 Booker T and the MGs had hits and then also functioned as the band that was 562 00:36:33,721 --> 00:36:36,640 backing the different vocalists that came through. 563 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,128 With Stax, you have a sense that it's a band 564 00:36:45,129 --> 00:36:47,640 that's creating a sound that's a signature sound. 565 00:36:47,641 --> 00:36:50,040 We out here on the floor now 566 00:36:56,450 --> 00:37:02,616 Oh yeah, oh yeah The formula back in the 60s, everybody 567 00:37:02,617 --> 00:37:05,930 had their own studio and their own set of musicians. 568 00:37:07,590 --> 00:37:10,782 You know, they didn't look up in the phone book and call 569 00:37:10,783 --> 00:37:13,331 this guy because he's good or that guy because he's good. 570 00:37:13,610 --> 00:37:15,210 They were the same guys all the time. 571 00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:17,490 And we played on almost every session. 572 00:37:18,990 --> 00:37:23,170 Don't you ever, don't you ever Don't you ever, don't you ever When Steve's worked 573 00:37:23,171 --> 00:37:26,044 with Booker T, he was also the indispensable 574 00:37:26,045 --> 00:37:28,990 side man to Wilson Pickett and to Sam & Dave. 575 00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:34,290 And in a business where everyone is indispensable, that's unusual. 576 00:37:36,190 --> 00:37:37,190 When 577 00:37:39,860 --> 00:37:44,520 we would do a Sam & Dave session, Steve would bring the flavor that we're 578 00:37:44,521 --> 00:37:46,787 looking for and we're communicating for the Sam & Dave 579 00:37:46,788 --> 00:37:49,820 project that you could tell that sounded like Sam & Dave. 580 00:37:50,100 --> 00:37:54,960 And if he were then, in fact, doing the Booker T and the MGs, he would take that 581 00:37:54,961 --> 00:38:00,080 role, and it would sound like Booker T and the MGs, yet it's the same four players. 582 00:38:00,300 --> 00:38:06,781 And you've got to be a special, special side man to make that work that way. 583 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:17,140 At Stax Records, you had white musicians as a support for black artists. 584 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:18,660 We were the leaders in that. 585 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,120 And you have to understand, we're talking about the 60s. 586 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,120 There were idiots of racists in the 60s. 587 00:38:26,121 --> 00:38:31,440 White racists that hate to even look at blacks walking on the same street with 588 00:38:31,441 --> 00:38:33,540 whites, let alone playing in bands with them. 589 00:38:33,660 --> 00:38:36,109 And then you put them in a role that's backing 590 00:38:36,110 --> 00:38:37,960 up and supporting someone that's black. 591 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:39,160 That was revolutionary. 592 00:38:39,580 --> 00:38:41,820 But that's what was happening at Stax Records. 593 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:49,240 You had guys like Steve Cropper who were willing to go into that role of support, 594 00:38:49,420 --> 00:38:55,420 and then on concerts, willing to get on stage and be called all kinds of names. 595 00:38:58,460 --> 00:39:04,700 Steve Cropper was an amazing side man, but it was what he contributed to the song. 596 00:39:04,980 --> 00:39:11,100 He played the rhythm parts, but he was clever enough to come up with intros and 597 00:39:11,101 --> 00:39:14,880 different parts, like we did Knock on Wood. 598 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,360 Eddie Floyd and I were riding at the Lorraine Motel. 599 00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:23,300 And he said, I got a great idea for Stax. 600 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:24,420 I said, okay, what? 601 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,220 And he said, I want to write a song about superstitions. 602 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:30,360 I said, okay. 603 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,820 Eddie, what do people do for good luck? 604 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,100 And he said, well, they go... 605 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:36,560 That's it. 606 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,780 So we started writing, and we knew we had it. 607 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,040 We finished the song, and I know I sat there for a long time trying to come up 608 00:39:45,041 --> 00:39:47,220 with an intro, and I couldn't come up with one. 609 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,820 The only idea that hit me, I said, I wonder what 610 00:39:49,821 --> 00:39:52,061 in the midnight hour would sound like backwards. 611 00:39:52,580 --> 00:39:56,780 And I don't know how I came up with the original of In the Midnight Hour, 612 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,380 but it started on a D chord. 613 00:40:11,140 --> 00:40:13,980 So it's the same walk, just in reverse. 614 00:40:14,260 --> 00:40:15,260 So it... 615 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,260 I don't want to lose... 616 00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:23,500 And that was Knock on Wood. 617 00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:33,280 I don't want to lose This good thing That I got If I do I 618 00:40:33,281 --> 00:40:43,860 will surely Surely lose a lot Cause your love Is better Your 619 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,912 love is frightening I better knock On wood I 620 00:40:56,913 --> 00:41:00,560 said, do you want to learn how to play guitar? 621 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,460 All guitars have the same dots on them. 622 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,000 It's a scale thing, I guess. 623 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:06,440 I don't know. 624 00:41:06,740 --> 00:41:08,420 I said, just follow the dots. 625 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:10,380 And you can write hit songs. 626 00:41:12,620 --> 00:41:13,840 It doesn't matter. 627 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,640 Steve Cropper not only played on hit songs, he co-wrote them. 628 00:41:24,980 --> 00:41:28,320 Knock on Wood, In the Midnight Hour, and many more. 629 00:41:29,380 --> 00:41:34,360 He was a songwriter, a session man, a producer, and a sideman. 630 00:41:34,580 --> 00:41:35,860 All rolled into one. 631 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:47,880 So, when wannabe soul star Otis Redding turned up at Stax in 1964, Steve and Stax 632 00:41:47,881 --> 00:41:50,780 owner Jim Stewart just knew they had someone special. 633 00:41:54,340 --> 00:41:57,160 Al Jackson, the drummer in Booker T and EMG's, came to 634 00:41:57,220 --> 00:41:59,440 me and he said, you know that guy, that big tall guy? 635 00:41:59,520 --> 00:41:59,960 And I said, yeah. 636 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,780 He said, he has been bugging me to death for somebody to listen to him sing. 637 00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:06,340 I said, yeah, okay. 638 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:07,660 Bring him down to the piano. 639 00:42:08,060 --> 00:42:10,260 And this guy comes up, and I said, okay. 640 00:42:10,460 --> 00:42:11,660 Let the piano play something. 641 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,560 He said, well, I don't play anything. 642 00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:15,896 And I said, well, I don't either. 643 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,340 He said, can you play me some of them church quads? 644 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:20,920 Quads instead of chords. 645 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:22,280 Church quads. 646 00:42:22,580 --> 00:42:24,460 And he starts singing These Arms Are Mine. 647 00:42:25,700 --> 00:42:28,720 These arms are mine. 648 00:42:35,170 --> 00:42:36,250 And I said, stop. 649 00:42:36,370 --> 00:42:36,750 Hold it. 650 00:42:36,751 --> 00:42:38,710 He said, what, you don't like it? 651 00:42:38,750 --> 00:42:40,030 And I said, no, I like it great. 652 00:42:40,150 --> 00:42:41,466 I just want Jim Stewart to hear it. 653 00:42:41,490 --> 00:42:42,726 And I went to the control room. 654 00:42:42,750 --> 00:42:45,530 I said, Jim, you got to get out here and hear this guy sing. 655 00:42:48,190 --> 00:42:50,230 These arms are mine. 656 00:42:52,930 --> 00:42:55,110 They are journeying. 657 00:42:55,670 --> 00:42:57,190 And I'm not lying about this. 658 00:42:57,250 --> 00:42:58,730 The hair on my arm stood up. 659 00:43:00,270 --> 00:43:01,270 Like that. 660 00:43:03,010 --> 00:43:07,150 By my recollection, we had 17 hit singles in a row with Otis Redding. 661 00:43:07,210 --> 00:43:08,870 He never had what we would call a flop. 662 00:43:12,730 --> 00:43:15,270 Steve, one of the most original guitar players. 663 00:43:15,410 --> 00:43:21,910 When I heard those first licks on those Otis Redding records, oh, there's one. 664 00:43:22,170 --> 00:43:23,170 There's one. 665 00:43:28,260 --> 00:43:33,140 Probably the other thing about a Sideman, and I'll throw this in with Steve Cropper, 666 00:43:33,260 --> 00:43:37,960 is the ability to read a song very quickly. 667 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,385 There's a sort of contact here with the piece of music 668 00:43:44,386 --> 00:43:47,300 that you're playing and to put your own thing on it. 669 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,380 But it's that sympathy for a song which is the sign of a good Sideman. 670 00:43:56,820 --> 00:43:59,581 Otis Redding's relationship with Steve was so 671 00:43:59,582 --> 00:44:02,801 great that he wanted his Sideman on tour with him. 672 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,800 Otis said, you guys have to go on the road with me. 673 00:44:07,801 --> 00:44:09,001 You have to be my backup band. 674 00:44:09,100 --> 00:44:11,300 That's what made it unique and so special. 675 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,439 The band that played on the hit records was the 676 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,281 same band that played on stage with the artists. 677 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:23,160 Same licks by the same people, playing the same thing with the same feeling. 678 00:44:23,340 --> 00:44:24,160 Never heard of. 679 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,122 Because you have what you call session players, 680 00:44:27,123 --> 00:44:30,141 and then you have your touring musicians. 681 00:44:30,580 --> 00:44:31,840 They don't do both. 682 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,260 In our story, Stax is really important. 683 00:44:37,261 --> 00:44:41,889 Here, musicians like Steve were given, if not star billing, 684 00:44:41,890 --> 00:44:46,060 at least visibility in a way that was pretty rare before then. 685 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,580 Steve was behind Otis, but crucial to his success. 686 00:44:52,840 --> 00:45:02,240 Sittin' in the mornin' sun I'll be sittin' when the evenin' comes Watchin' those 687 00:45:02,241 --> 00:45:10,500 ships roll in Then I'll watch them roll away again I'll just go sittin' on the 688 00:45:10,501 --> 00:45:19,720 dock of the bay Watchin' the tide roll away Sittin' on the dock of the bay 689 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:34,120 Wastin' time I left my home in Georgia Headed for the Frisco Bay This was the 690 00:45:34,121 --> 00:45:36,886 last song Steve and Otis Otis worked on together, 691 00:45:36,887 --> 00:45:39,561 though Otis never heard the final track. 692 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,560 He was killed in a plane crash. 693 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,800 He was just 26 years old. 694 00:45:47,060 --> 00:45:49,200 The role I had with Otis... 695 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,560 We partied together, we'd go to clubs together, we'd do different things. 696 00:46:02,140 --> 00:46:04,174 Otis calls himself a backwoods country boy, 697 00:46:04,175 --> 00:46:07,620 but it was something that was extremely magic. 698 00:46:13,650 --> 00:46:15,110 There'll never be another one. 699 00:46:24,710 --> 00:46:29,250 Steve's relationship with Otis was kind of special, and his reputation was sealed. 700 00:46:30,070 --> 00:46:32,560 He would go on to work with everyone from Rod 701 00:46:32,561 --> 00:46:35,991 Stewart, to Eric Clapton, to the Blues Brothers. 702 00:46:37,710 --> 00:46:40,750 And as a sideman, that's what you need. 703 00:46:40,930 --> 00:46:41,930 A reputation. 704 00:46:42,610 --> 00:46:45,750 Because the artists you work with don't always have work for you. 705 00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:49,330 But if you are lucky, someone else might. 706 00:46:51,810 --> 00:46:55,190 And my luck was certainly in when I got a call in 1980. 707 00:46:57,630 --> 00:47:03,830 So I hadn't seen David Bowie since 76, and I got a phone call from the producer, 708 00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:09,030 Jack Douglas, and he said, oh, I got decisions for Slicky, and who is it? 709 00:47:09,070 --> 00:47:10,070 I can't tell you. 710 00:47:11,310 --> 00:47:14,350 But after three or four days, I kind of figured it out. 711 00:47:14,930 --> 00:47:16,310 It was John Lennon. 712 00:47:20,030 --> 00:47:21,210 I was a little nervous. 713 00:47:21,330 --> 00:47:22,110 I don't get nervous. 714 00:47:22,290 --> 00:47:23,450 That one made me nervous. 715 00:47:24,290 --> 00:47:29,390 John had certain session guides that he had used, and John said, well, 716 00:47:29,530 --> 00:47:31,010 I need a wild card in here. 717 00:47:31,090 --> 00:47:33,540 I need a street player that can't read, that's 718 00:47:33,541 --> 00:47:35,750 just like me, irreverent and does what he wants. 719 00:47:36,150 --> 00:47:37,270 That's how I got the gig. 720 00:47:41,310 --> 00:47:44,260 It was not a challenge working with John at all, 721 00:47:44,261 --> 00:47:47,011 because he left me alone to do what I wanted to do. 722 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,300 I was really ecstatic. 723 00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:06,720 It was a really good time in my career. 724 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:07,960 It really was. 725 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:09,620 And not just my career, my life. 726 00:48:11,380 --> 00:48:12,420 I loved it. 727 00:48:12,540 --> 00:48:13,820 John just let me loose. 728 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,600 When I'm with one of the so-called stars, I feel like a peer. 729 00:48:32,780 --> 00:48:35,280 You know, that's the way I'm treated. 730 00:48:35,340 --> 00:48:36,440 I'm treated like a peer. 731 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:45,260 I was really lucky to work with both David and John in a period that I now see as the 732 00:48:45,261 --> 00:48:49,280 heyday for our sidies, the 70s and the 80s. 733 00:48:50,180 --> 00:48:53,745 At this time, there were superstar solo artists who 734 00:48:53,746 --> 00:48:56,700 needed sidemen and respected the role they played. 735 00:48:56,900 --> 00:49:02,200 And if you were a sideman or a woman during this golden age, you could play not 736 00:49:02,201 --> 00:49:04,818 just guitar, but were a multi -instrumentalist, 737 00:49:04,819 --> 00:49:07,061 then you were going to get a lot of gigs. 738 00:49:08,340 --> 00:49:13,631 Our percussion and vocals and saxophone, keyboards, 739 00:49:13,651 --> 00:49:18,020 harmonica, you name it, she plays it out of Gary, Indiana. 740 00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:20,720 That's Professor Crystal Tagliaferro. 741 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:22,880 Crystal's always there. 742 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:23,760 She's total professional. 743 00:49:23,761 --> 00:49:25,840 When we're on stage, she delivers. 744 00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:27,900 She's a show unto herself. 745 00:49:28,740 --> 00:49:32,420 I can always rely on her to come through, no matter what we're doing. 746 00:49:32,620 --> 00:49:36,900 And that's a great thing to be able to rely on. 747 00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:40,620 I never have to worry about what she's going to do or how she does it. 748 00:49:49,420 --> 00:49:50,920 I've never wanted to be a star. 749 00:49:51,060 --> 00:49:52,160 Not even when I was a kid. 750 00:49:52,300 --> 00:49:53,700 I didn't even know what a star was. 751 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,380 This whole thing chose me. 752 00:49:55,660 --> 00:50:01,080 I thought I would be married with five kids, maybe a accountant or something. 753 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,500 Seriously, I mean... 754 00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,600 But, you know, I'm glad it turned out this way. 755 00:50:13,820 --> 00:50:15,020 Best time of my life. 756 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:16,560 Who knew? 757 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,740 Crystal hooked up with Billy in the 80s, having worked with some of the biggest 758 00:50:30,741 --> 00:50:35,641 names of the day, including John Mellencamp, Joe Cocker, and Bruce Springsteen. 759 00:50:39,670 --> 00:50:43,310 She went from the keyboard, and then she picked up the saxophone. 760 00:50:43,790 --> 00:50:49,970 And, you know, it's kind of like, wait, she's gorgeous, and she's grounded. 761 00:50:51,790 --> 00:50:52,910 She's talented. 762 00:50:53,310 --> 00:50:55,670 She's got great stage presence. 763 00:50:55,710 --> 00:50:59,275 That is, I think, how Crystal is still in this 764 00:50:59,276 --> 00:51:03,211 business, because she's an asset to anybody. 765 00:51:06,970 --> 00:51:10,153 We started working together and right away, I 766 00:51:10,154 --> 00:51:12,650 said, Oh, this woman knows what she's doing. 767 00:51:12,830 --> 00:51:16,430 She was going to help us arrange harmonies, play percussion. 768 00:51:17,870 --> 00:51:19,670 I didn't know if it was going to be permanent. 769 00:51:19,810 --> 00:51:21,110 I thought it might be temporary. 770 00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:22,270 It was up to her. 771 00:51:22,350 --> 00:51:23,350 Hey! 772 00:51:24,790 --> 00:51:26,690 You feel like a girl. 773 00:51:26,691 --> 00:51:28,870 You feel like a girl. 774 00:51:28,871 --> 00:51:33,126 Today women's societies are part of the show, but it's easy 775 00:51:33,127 --> 00:51:36,510 to forget that back in the 80s this was all about the guys. 776 00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:43,510 A woman coming to the band was different. 777 00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:46,290 A couple flags went up, you know. 778 00:51:47,930 --> 00:51:50,070 But I knew that was going to happen. 779 00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:56,570 I was expecting it to be the sexy one. 780 00:51:56,690 --> 00:51:57,330 Thank you, Billy. 781 00:51:57,331 --> 00:51:59,786 I don't think he purposely meant for it to happen, it 782 00:51:59,846 --> 00:52:03,030 just happened to be that way, and I'm happy I was there. 783 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,060 I mean, I want to hear a guy say, hey, you're sexy. 784 00:52:13,220 --> 00:52:14,740 I think, hey, thank you. 785 00:52:15,140 --> 00:52:17,100 You know, I mean, it makes me feel good. 786 00:52:22,010 --> 00:52:25,510 Yes, there are benefits to being a sexy side woman. 787 00:52:27,430 --> 00:52:28,430 Lots of benefits. 788 00:52:29,250 --> 00:52:31,610 Guys like sexy, hot girls. 789 00:52:31,710 --> 00:52:32,730 I mean, you're popular. 790 00:52:32,930 --> 00:52:34,570 You know, you get a lot of recognition. 791 00:52:39,070 --> 00:52:40,630 And I got a lot of recognition. 792 00:52:41,410 --> 00:52:43,130 And that's probably why I got a lot of gigs. 793 00:52:45,650 --> 00:52:50,030 I didn't notice that there was any issues with her being a woman. 794 00:52:50,190 --> 00:52:51,770 I mean, she was a good musician. 795 00:52:52,150 --> 00:52:53,572 So right away, all the people that I was 796 00:52:53,573 --> 00:52:56,731 working with at the time had respect for her. 797 00:52:57,370 --> 00:53:00,690 And that's really what it, I think, what it came down to, was just, 798 00:53:00,770 --> 00:53:05,110 she's a good musician, and so you better hold your own, you know. 799 00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:10,270 Being one of the guys, but not a guy. 800 00:53:10,810 --> 00:53:11,810 Doing the hang. 801 00:53:13,110 --> 00:53:15,630 When they say, okay, you're one of the fellas. 802 00:53:16,570 --> 00:53:17,570 You can hang. 803 00:53:18,550 --> 00:53:19,550 That's a compliment. 804 00:53:20,590 --> 00:53:22,498 That means they're accepting you as one of the 805 00:53:22,499 --> 00:53:24,330 fellas, and they still respect you as a woman. 806 00:53:24,670 --> 00:53:28,050 Now, when I first came in, now, that was the first time, I guess, 807 00:53:28,070 --> 00:53:30,650 Billy worked with a female, which was interesting. 808 00:53:32,190 --> 00:53:33,850 He did very well, by the way. 809 00:53:34,490 --> 00:53:35,490 He did good. 810 00:53:35,530 --> 00:53:35,970 He did good. 811 00:53:35,971 --> 00:53:37,230 The guys did good, too. 812 00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:49,670 After 28 years, Crystal still plays with Billy's touring band. 813 00:53:49,970 --> 00:53:53,650 But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how long you're with the star. 814 00:53:53,870 --> 00:53:58,830 When the tour is over, for most of us Sideys, it's a case of, what happens now? 815 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,380 As a Sideman, I live like a king. 816 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:11,920 I'm treated like a king. 817 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,100 I don't have to do anything but play music. 818 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:16,000 It's great. 819 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:17,160 It's Disneyland. 820 00:54:17,660 --> 00:54:19,840 I get to do what I want to do every day. 821 00:54:20,660 --> 00:54:22,360 Nobody questions what I do. 822 00:54:22,460 --> 00:54:23,860 All my needs are taken care of. 823 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,400 Then, said tour is over. 824 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:34,300 Said Sideman goes home, and said Sideman sits there waiting for the phone to ring. 825 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,300 Which is okay at the very beginning, because there's some money left. 826 00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:41,460 But this money gets smaller and smaller and smaller. 827 00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:43,160 And nobody's calling. 828 00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:46,820 And you're going, why are they not calling? 829 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,280 Is it possible to hit you up again and be a big pain in the ass? 830 00:54:51,420 --> 00:54:54,631 And you'll come up with whatever reasons you come 831 00:54:54,711 --> 00:54:57,420 up with, which may be true, maybe not be true. 832 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:03,640 But I think the more known you are, and the more visible you are as a Sideman 833 00:55:03,641 --> 00:55:08,360 to your frontman, the less approachable you are. 834 00:55:10,020 --> 00:55:11,500 I'll sit out here all year. 835 00:55:13,180 --> 00:55:16,220 The phone doesn't ring, because they think you're owned. 836 00:55:16,221 --> 00:55:18,000 And in a way, you are. 837 00:55:18,060 --> 00:55:19,060 What are we doing here? 838 00:55:20,620 --> 00:55:24,960 They're thinking, you know, we're rolling in money, and we're buying houses, 839 00:55:25,020 --> 00:55:26,680 and we're working, and we're on retainer, 840 00:55:26,681 --> 00:55:28,500 and any minute we're going to be doing this. 841 00:55:28,620 --> 00:55:30,520 And that's just not the truth. 842 00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,960 The truth was that in between, there would be times when years would go by. 843 00:55:35,740 --> 00:55:37,940 This is one of them good-ass do-nothing days. 844 00:55:38,100 --> 00:55:39,100 I like this. 845 00:55:42,510 --> 00:55:44,550 I ain't going to do nothing today after you guys go. 846 00:55:52,690 --> 00:55:56,820 You know what? 847 00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:58,080 It's a double-edged sword. 848 00:55:58,540 --> 00:56:01,520 You're playing with the world's greatest rock and roll band. 849 00:56:01,700 --> 00:56:06,280 And when it's over, it's going to be hard to get another gig, because first of all, 850 00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,340 people, for some reason, they think that you're part of the band. 851 00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,060 I'm a gun for hire. 852 00:56:11,540 --> 00:56:13,640 I wish I made that kind of money. 853 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:15,720 I wish I made Rolling Stone money. 854 00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:17,480 But that ain't the case. 855 00:56:20,020 --> 00:56:24,680 I don't make that much money where I can take a vacation or take a break. 856 00:56:25,260 --> 00:56:29,520 I've tried, you know, taking a break after a Rolling Stone tour. 857 00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:35,980 And when that money got low, trying to find another gig, super hard. 858 00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:47,460 It's not like you can just call and say, hey, hey. 859 00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,980 I'm Bernard Fowler, and I want a tour now. 860 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:52,540 Shit don't happen like that. 861 00:56:54,220 --> 00:56:59,000 And like I said, I've done that before, and it bit me in the ass. 862 00:57:01,140 --> 00:57:05,080 I might take a few weeks or so, but I'm back at it. 863 00:57:07,140 --> 00:57:11,260 I've been blessed that every time the Stones have gone out, I've gone out. 864 00:57:12,340 --> 00:57:16,700 But it's really funny because like sometimes, you know, I'd get telephone 865 00:57:16,701 --> 00:57:18,734 calls from friends or fans, and they're like, 866 00:57:18,735 --> 00:57:20,500 hey, man, I hear the Stones are going out. 867 00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:21,380 Why don't you go with them? 868 00:57:21,460 --> 00:57:23,040 I'm like, I didn't hear anything. 869 00:57:26,460 --> 00:57:29,227 And when that happens, it kind of with you a bit 870 00:57:29,228 --> 00:57:32,001 because you're not even sure if you're even going. 871 00:57:34,140 --> 00:57:36,980 That's part of being a Sideman, I think, not being sure. 872 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:43,080 But Brother B has nothing to worry about on that. 873 00:57:43,081 --> 00:57:45,800 It's whether the Stones will still be around. 874 00:57:46,020 --> 00:57:50,100 It's not whether he'll be with us for sure, you know. 875 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,340 It's up to him, as long as he wants it. 876 00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:56,820 Yeah, he'll be with us till the end. 877 00:57:57,020 --> 00:57:58,620 Then we call him a Rolling Stone. 878 00:57:59,380 --> 00:58:02,120 When we all retire, he can become a... 879 00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:06,660 We'll give him a little badge with, I am finally in there. 880 00:58:09,420 --> 00:58:13,060 Well, as far as I'm concerned, he is officially a Rolling Stone. 881 00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:17,060 So, by now, Brother B will rock on you. 882 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:25,540 I still do see myself as a Sideman with the Rolling Stones. 883 00:58:25,900 --> 00:58:28,360 By no means am I a Rolling Stone. 884 00:58:30,020 --> 00:58:31,840 And nor will I ever be. 885 00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:38,900 Would the Rolling Stones suffer without me? 886 00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:41,980 They can continue. 887 00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:45,700 But they'd miss me. 888 00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,240 This is something special for you. 889 00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:56,400 Bernard's kind of lucky. 890 00:58:56,660 --> 00:59:00,820 Despite some insecurity, he does have a long-term gig with the Stones. 891 00:59:01,700 --> 00:59:04,660 I worked with David on and off for 40 years. 892 00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,040 But the work was by no means constant. 893 00:59:07,580 --> 00:59:10,120 I never really knew what was around the corner. 894 00:59:11,620 --> 00:59:15,494 He sacked me once, but then I was called back every time 895 00:59:15,495 --> 00:59:19,980 one of the guitar players vaporized or quit or whatever. 896 00:59:20,260 --> 00:59:21,340 I got the phone call. 897 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,200 And people say, don't that make you feel used? 898 00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:24,500 No. 899 00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,260 He was doing what he needed to do at a time. 900 00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,960 I took the gig, which meant I did what I needed to do at a time. 901 00:59:32,060 --> 00:59:35,380 So it was, you know, one hand washed the other. 902 00:59:36,100 --> 00:59:37,140 Yeah, boy. 903 00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,474 But being sacked, let go, replaced, whatever 904 00:59:43,475 --> 00:59:46,521 you want to call it, when it happens, it hurts. 905 00:59:46,660 --> 00:59:48,700 And it really does piss you off. 906 00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:57,520 From the moment I was hired to the moment it all ended, it was nonstop. 907 01:00:04,050 --> 01:00:07,650 So I never felt that it would end until it ended. 908 01:00:07,651 --> 01:00:11,650 It almost felt like someone kicked the bed while you were sound asleep. 909 01:00:12,010 --> 01:00:13,650 You're like, what, what, what? 910 01:00:14,070 --> 01:00:18,750 That's kind of how it felt when it ended. 911 01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:22,090 Me and Lisa were fired. 912 01:00:27,210 --> 01:00:33,650 The night that we got fired, I can't say that Prince thanked us. 913 01:00:33,870 --> 01:00:37,630 I could just feel his feelings just contradicting each other. 914 01:00:37,631 --> 01:00:40,430 They just jumped themselves within him. 915 01:00:40,850 --> 01:00:41,850 Boo! 916 01:00:42,370 --> 01:00:45,110 I think he was at a crossroads. 917 01:00:45,690 --> 01:00:48,630 I think it was hard for him to say thank you at that time. 918 01:00:49,490 --> 01:00:52,523 I said, you know, I just got into this place where I just 919 01:00:52,524 --> 01:00:55,410 need to change it up now, because I've spread myself too thin. 920 01:00:55,950 --> 01:01:00,490 You guys are your own people, and I need more of it in my control. 921 01:01:01,490 --> 01:01:05,730 We were blown away by it and understood at the same time. 922 01:01:06,530 --> 01:01:09,110 That's what it is when you're a side person. 923 01:01:10,650 --> 01:01:11,690 Everybody's expendable. 924 01:01:14,190 --> 01:01:16,770 Yeah, I felt like my life exploded. 925 01:01:17,110 --> 01:01:21,340 It took me on this incredible ride, and then 926 01:01:21,341 --> 01:01:24,610 suddenly, you know, let's not do this anymore. 927 01:01:25,030 --> 01:01:27,890 It was really like a romantic breakup, you know. 928 01:01:29,110 --> 01:01:35,190 And I think he missed us too, which always freaked me out when I'd get signs of that, 929 01:01:35,191 --> 01:01:38,270 that he was missing us or wondering where we were. 930 01:01:38,730 --> 01:01:40,070 It would make me mad. 931 01:01:42,010 --> 01:01:46,090 It was a facade in that Prince was never going to be a member of a band, 932 01:01:46,350 --> 01:01:50,445 that he was never going to be as collaborative as, 933 01:01:50,446 --> 01:01:53,050 you know, what it was that he was putting forward. 934 01:01:53,630 --> 01:01:59,070 I will say that Purple Rain was the most collaborative period in his career. 935 01:01:59,850 --> 01:02:02,162 After the success of Purple Rain, you know, there 936 01:02:02,163 --> 01:02:04,250 was no possibility of collaboration after that. 937 01:02:04,310 --> 01:02:05,170 I mean, at that point, no. 938 01:02:05,190 --> 01:02:07,900 Nobody could ever say no to him again because he 939 01:02:07,901 --> 01:02:10,491 had shown that he knew better than everybody else. 940 01:02:12,210 --> 01:02:16,155 Wendy and I were pretty lost after the breakup 941 01:02:16,156 --> 01:02:19,591 and weren't really sure what we were going to do. 942 01:02:20,570 --> 01:02:27,610 We rented a house for a couple of weeks and licked our wounds kind of like together. 943 01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:32,830 We commiserated and then we started to write songs. 944 01:02:36,410 --> 01:02:39,710 People were waiting for us to write, you know, a Prince track. 945 01:02:39,930 --> 01:02:41,990 But it's not Prince and the Revolution. 946 01:02:42,210 --> 01:02:44,050 It's a different thing. 947 01:02:57,630 --> 01:02:59,790 Now we're not the arm candy. 948 01:03:00,070 --> 01:03:02,790 You know, we can actually be the centerpiece. 949 01:03:03,530 --> 01:03:04,950 And that was the desire. 950 01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:22,360 And then ensued the dynamic of what are you talking about? 951 01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,080 What do you mean, what are you selling? 952 01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:27,060 Okay, we understand commerce. 953 01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:28,220 We got to sell a product. 954 01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:29,800 There's branding, da-da-da-da-da. 955 01:03:30,180 --> 01:03:37,621 But this is where that being a woman in the music business is sort of like an oxymoron. 956 01:03:47,410 --> 01:03:49,190 That's what the species is. 957 01:03:49,290 --> 01:03:52,170 I don't want to play a part in that game. 958 01:03:52,490 --> 01:03:59,450 But when my twin sister came and sang with Wendy and Lisa, the marketers loved it. 959 01:04:01,090 --> 01:04:05,010 Because Susanna was, like, hot and sexy. 960 01:04:05,850 --> 01:04:07,150 And, like, woo-hoo! 961 01:04:07,390 --> 01:04:08,730 We can market that! 962 01:04:11,430 --> 01:04:13,650 I thought Wendy and Lisa were great. 963 01:04:13,930 --> 01:04:17,530 But the move from sidey to solo artist is really a tough one. 964 01:04:27,060 --> 01:04:30,780 We ended up getting, like, dropped repeatedly on every label. 965 01:04:30,820 --> 01:04:32,920 We'd be signed and dropped and signed and dropped. 966 01:04:32,980 --> 01:04:33,980 Signed and dropped. 967 01:04:34,100 --> 01:04:36,940 And, you know, because they were just, like, oh. 968 01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:39,000 Well, where's, you know... 969 01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,160 I don't know what they wanted. 970 01:04:41,380 --> 01:04:42,620 A little red Corvette. 971 01:04:43,060 --> 01:04:44,900 But that wasn't gonna happen. 972 01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,680 With us, it was a more subtle success that we could play clubs and sell them out. 973 01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:55,060 In my estimation, I think that means that we made it. 974 01:04:56,180 --> 01:04:58,000 And we're able to keep working. 975 01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:03,520 I mean, I haven't had to get a job at Staples or McDonald's or something. 976 01:05:03,660 --> 01:05:04,660 So... 977 01:05:09,460 --> 01:05:12,960 Was it disappointing for me to realize that I wasn't a star? 978 01:05:13,820 --> 01:05:16,260 I have embarrassment saying it. 979 01:05:16,300 --> 01:05:17,300 Yeah. 980 01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:24,520 I wanted to be as important as the artists that are important to me, to other people. 981 01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,480 I wanted to be able to have people listen to the work that I did. 982 01:05:29,460 --> 01:05:36,560 My idea of being a rock star probably didn't match what my musical output was. 983 01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:53,640 When Wendy and Lisa didn't turn out to be huge pop stars on their own, they were 984 01:05:53,641 --> 01:05:59,200 able to adjust because of their training, because of their versatility, and because 985 01:05:59,201 --> 01:06:04,580 of their brand name and the awareness of Wendy and Lisa, to go on to be hugely in 986 01:06:04,581 --> 01:06:08,316 demand and to play with folks like Madonna and Joni 987 01:06:08,317 --> 01:06:12,540 Mitchell and Seal, and able to build a career that way. 988 01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,300 It's too busy at that time. 989 01:06:15,301 --> 01:06:16,500 The tempo is too much. 990 01:06:17,180 --> 01:06:24,560 And then from that, springboard into writing scores, soundtracks, TV shows, films. 991 01:06:27,340 --> 01:06:29,300 It's still, it's not ironic enough. 992 01:06:29,380 --> 01:06:31,160 It feels too, like, anthemic. 993 01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:34,451 Wendy and Lisa's contribution is much like an actor on the 994 01:06:34,452 --> 01:06:38,200 show, and I always treated them as if they were actors. 995 01:06:38,460 --> 01:06:40,840 With an actor, you don't tell them how to do a scene. 996 01:06:40,980 --> 01:06:43,040 You don't say, don't give a line reading. 997 01:06:43,041 --> 01:06:48,540 And as much as maybe the studio or network at times on parts of the music would want 998 01:06:48,541 --> 01:06:53,900 a line reading, a specific kind of music, I always resisted giving them that note. 999 01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,340 So we should be playing something ironic, not too romantic. 1000 01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:02,040 In my experience in working with them, I don't think we ever had them re-score 1001 01:07:02,041 --> 01:07:04,020 something more than maybe three or four times. 1002 01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:08,040 And I'm talking about 200 episodes of television. 1003 01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:09,320 That's amazing. 1004 01:07:12,100 --> 01:07:13,136 Wendy and Lisa's contribution to the film industry, Wendy 1005 01:07:13,137 --> 01:07:15,960 and Lisa made it again as side women, but now in TV. 1006 01:07:16,260 --> 01:07:19,000 They're writing music for some of the biggest U.S. 1007 01:07:19,020 --> 01:07:19,320 shows. 1008 01:07:19,660 --> 01:07:20,660 That was good. 1009 01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:22,640 And they even got an Emmy to prove it. 1010 01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:35,023 So to survive when you're not on the road, us sideys need to 1011 01:07:35,024 --> 01:07:38,460 find other ways to use what we've got to make a few bucks. 1012 01:07:40,580 --> 01:07:44,320 I don't think that I've been versatile enough during my career. 1013 01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:46,920 What are you, a cop? 1014 01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,560 I don't see a uniform on you. 1015 01:07:49,620 --> 01:07:50,700 Sorry, fat ass. 1016 01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:56,200 A lot of the other guys, though, that weren't versatile enough, 1017 01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:58,380 disappeared completely off the planet. 1018 01:07:58,640 --> 01:07:59,820 And they ain't coming back. 1019 01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:06,600 That's something that really hit me like a ton of bricks about ten years ago that I'm 1020 01:08:06,601 --> 01:08:11,600 gonna have to sort of spread out here, but where? 1021 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:15,020 It's got such a natural leather scent. 1022 01:08:15,021 --> 01:08:16,021 It works. 1023 01:08:16,180 --> 01:08:18,220 So I thought, what are my talents? 1024 01:08:18,500 --> 01:08:19,860 What the hell can I do? 1025 01:08:20,340 --> 01:08:24,240 Yeah, I play music, but I also paint and customize my own clothes. 1026 01:08:24,780 --> 01:08:27,340 So I thought, why don't I do something with that? 1027 01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:28,640 Worth a try? 1028 01:08:28,820 --> 01:08:29,440 This is great. 1029 01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:30,800 No? 1030 01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:32,040 Extra bullet holes. 1031 01:08:33,260 --> 01:08:35,880 Oh, that's 40 grit sandpaper. 1032 01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:38,240 You can make bullet holes that way. 1033 01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:40,260 I can trash anything. 1034 01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:41,860 I do it anyway. 1035 01:08:41,980 --> 01:08:45,080 Might as well, like, you know, maybe make money out of it. 1036 01:08:46,260 --> 01:08:48,640 Christian Benner is a New York fashion designer. 1037 01:08:48,900 --> 01:08:52,276 I really like his style, so I brought a load of my stuff 1038 01:08:52,277 --> 01:08:54,621 to see if we might be able to do something together. 1039 01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:58,241 And then you take this shit and you put it in bleach 1040 01:08:58,242 --> 01:09:01,901 and then use a bunch of rusty nails and... Yeah, yeah. 1041 01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:05,940 Shotgun shells and... Can't play it, but it looks cool. 1042 01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:07,600 It's beautiful. 1043 01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:13,740 I don't have what he has, and he doesn't have what I have. 1044 01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:15,320 This is gorgeous, though. 1045 01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:17,280 I want what he has. 1046 01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,240 He wants what I have, which makes for a great partnership. 1047 01:09:21,660 --> 01:09:22,480 A Christian B. 1048 01:09:22,620 --> 01:09:23,620 original. 1049 01:09:23,900 --> 01:09:25,660 Uh, I did it, though. 1050 01:09:25,940 --> 01:09:26,500 Yeah, I noticed. 1051 01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:27,640 What do you think? 1052 01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:32,700 I do belts and jackets, but the way I paint things and the way I do things can 1053 01:09:32,701 --> 01:09:39,000 actually add to his thing, and even some of my stuff will stand on its own. 1054 01:09:39,480 --> 01:09:41,160 Oh, my God, I did a good job. 1055 01:09:41,161 --> 01:09:42,480 I'm good, thank you. 1056 01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:44,560 He's been in business. 1057 01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:48,000 He's got the machine to do it, whereas I don't. 1058 01:09:48,940 --> 01:09:50,520 Therein comes your trade-off. 1059 01:09:51,020 --> 01:09:53,480 He gets my name to help him out a little bit. 1060 01:09:54,380 --> 01:09:59,380 I get the machine, I get the help, promotion, all the stuff you need. 1061 01:10:01,260 --> 01:10:03,020 Little managers talk to each other. 1062 01:10:03,100 --> 01:10:04,100 Yeah, they started. 1063 01:10:09,780 --> 01:10:14,080 For me, it's fashion, but all of us ideas have to find our own way. 1064 01:10:16,480 --> 01:10:18,940 Crystal Talafiero is no shit. 1065 01:10:19,420 --> 01:10:24,340 Professor Crystal Talafiero from Indiana University when she's not touring. 1066 01:10:25,180 --> 01:10:26,420 Can't see me doing that. 1067 01:10:28,460 --> 01:10:32,480 I think I'm talented in more ways than just being a musician. 1068 01:10:32,660 --> 01:10:36,120 I think I'm talented, I think, more so in social skills. 1069 01:10:36,180 --> 01:10:40,144 I think I have good social skills, which I think should 1070 01:10:40,145 --> 01:10:43,440 be weighed on the same level as your performance skills. 1071 01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:48,140 I mean, you can have a talented person and you can play 50,000 instruments and have 1072 01:10:48,141 --> 01:10:51,600 zero social skills, and who wants to hang around with him? 1073 01:10:52,300 --> 01:10:53,420 He can't do the hang. 1074 01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:54,920 He's out. 1075 01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:01,160 Crystal teaches up-and-coming musicians. 1076 01:11:01,940 --> 01:11:02,940 Who knows? 1077 01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:05,080 Maybe the next generation of sideys. 1078 01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:06,280 Happy, happy. 1079 01:11:06,540 --> 01:11:07,620 Wind your body. 1080 01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:08,720 Big with your body. 1081 01:11:08,780 --> 01:11:09,500 I see it slip, slide. 1082 01:11:09,580 --> 01:11:10,720 Come on and do it hardy. 1083 01:11:10,721 --> 01:11:14,540 I am teaching how to get the job, how to keep the job, performance, 1084 01:11:14,980 --> 01:11:17,940 stage performance, delivery, spontaneity. 1085 01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,700 I'm teaching basically how to survive. 1086 01:11:21,440 --> 01:11:24,240 I want you to use those eyes, those big, terrific eyes you have. 1087 01:11:24,940 --> 01:11:25,480 Yoo! 1088 01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,060 You turn my life... 1089 01:11:28,061 --> 01:11:34,000 All the opportunities here for my students doing what I do as a sideman, yes, 1090 01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,020 they are there, but it's a little more difficult 1091 01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:39,020 now from the, you know, younger generation. 1092 01:11:39,300 --> 01:11:40,700 They're all talented, great musicians. 1093 01:11:40,701 --> 01:11:41,701 Of course. 1094 01:11:41,740 --> 01:11:44,020 But I think they've been watered down. 1095 01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:46,520 There's no more identities. 1096 01:11:47,060 --> 01:11:49,200 Only the star is allowed to have an identity. 1097 01:11:51,020 --> 01:11:54,480 Maybe I should rethink and start grooming solo artists instead. 1098 01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:05,440 The music business today, hell, it's like another world. 1099 01:12:08,700 --> 01:12:13,020 Thankfully, there are still some big artists out there that need great sidemen, 1100 01:12:13,180 --> 01:12:15,720 or in the case of Beyoncé, side women. 1101 01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:21,429 And when Beyoncé toured the Beyoncé Experience in 07, she 1102 01:12:21,430 --> 01:12:24,340 worked with some of the best side women in the business. 1103 01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:29,680 There's anywhere from 20 to 30 people on stage with Beyoncé at any given point. 1104 01:12:30,020 --> 01:12:31,120 I'm seeing everything. 1105 01:12:31,340 --> 01:12:33,461 I'm seeing people losing their minds, going 1106 01:12:33,462 --> 01:12:36,301 crazy, seeing their icon for the first time. 1107 01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:40,100 I'm seeing a big party, honestly, in the Beyoncé concerts. 1108 01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:42,700 I wish everyone had the opportunity to get that point of view. 1109 01:12:54,170 --> 01:12:56,270 Crystal Ravel Torres is extraordinary. 1110 01:12:56,970 --> 01:12:59,281 She's a multi-instrumentalist who started 1111 01:12:59,282 --> 01:13:02,931 working with Beyoncé in 07 as a trumpet player. 1112 01:13:05,410 --> 01:13:09,190 When we first began, much of Beyoncé's repertoire didn't have horn parts. 1113 01:13:12,530 --> 01:13:17,730 We had a lot of creative freedom, you know, as long as it wasn't stepping on 1114 01:13:17,731 --> 01:13:19,990 the melody or getting in the way of what was happening. 1115 01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:27,120 We had creative license to kind of add what we wanted. 1116 01:13:28,460 --> 01:13:30,220 She asked me to do a solo. 1117 01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:31,640 She didn't, she was very open. 1118 01:13:31,820 --> 01:13:34,180 She didn't say specifically what to play. 1119 01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:41,300 There were 40,000 people staring at me, and Beyoncé said, Give it to mama! 1120 01:13:43,060 --> 01:13:44,500 And there's my moment. 1121 01:14:09,300 --> 01:14:11,707 She suggested that I do something really dramatic 1122 01:14:11,708 --> 01:14:14,160 and put the horn up, you know, back like this. 1123 01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:15,240 That's when I solo. 1124 01:14:22,100 --> 01:14:24,920 Sometimes it came out, sometimes it didn't, because it's really hard to play a 1125 01:14:24,921 --> 01:14:27,340 trumpet in heels, you know, doing a backbend. 1126 01:14:30,380 --> 01:14:32,140 I had done maybe five world tours. 1127 01:14:32,380 --> 01:14:36,084 But you have to understand, the story was obviously about 1128 01:14:36,085 --> 01:14:39,000 Beyoncé, so you have your choice to take it or leave it. 1129 01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:45,491 The quintessential modern sideman or musician has to 1130 01:14:45,492 --> 01:14:49,840 be open to all of the many places that music leads you. 1131 01:14:55,070 --> 01:14:59,970 After being part of Beyoncé's touring band for several years, the day came when 1132 01:14:59,971 --> 01:15:03,590 Crystal didn't get the call to join Beyoncé's 2012 tour. 1133 01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:11,180 I actually didn't get the call after all those years. 1134 01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:11,900 It hurt. 1135 01:15:12,060 --> 01:15:13,060 It definitely hurt. 1136 01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:15,434 Sometimes you are a part of an artist's 1137 01:15:15,435 --> 01:15:17,600 vision, you know, and that's a beautiful thing. 1138 01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:18,960 And sometimes you're not. 1139 01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:23,776 And I think how every musician deals with those, setbacks, 1140 01:15:23,777 --> 01:15:27,260 really determines their fate and their success and their future. 1141 01:15:30,180 --> 01:15:34,920 You have to be aware that this is a business and you're working with a star, 1142 01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:37,804 so it's not that they don't want you to promote yourself, 1143 01:15:37,904 --> 01:15:40,780 but you just, you are working for a bigger brand. 1144 01:15:40,980 --> 01:15:43,580 And sometimes it's about that brand first. 1145 01:15:43,740 --> 01:15:46,245 This needs to be protected, so you have to find 1146 01:15:46,246 --> 01:15:49,301 how you fit and how they can work together. 1147 01:15:51,420 --> 01:15:54,000 Nowadays much more so than in the past. 1148 01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,960 You have to be able to switch gears quickly. 1149 01:15:58,440 --> 01:16:01,642 And that would be the time when I developed my songwriting 1150 01:16:01,643 --> 01:16:04,300 and production skills and got into that and met Lupe. 1151 01:16:09,860 --> 01:16:12,355 Lupe Fiasco is a Grammy award-winning rap 1152 01:16:12,356 --> 01:16:16,221 artist who is always looking out for new talent. 1153 01:16:17,420 --> 01:16:18,420 Crystal's name kept. 1154 01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:19,080 Popping up. 1155 01:16:19,260 --> 01:16:20,760 I was like, who's this Crystal on? 1156 01:16:22,100 --> 01:16:25,041 And then it was like, hey Crystal, would you mind 1157 01:16:25,081 --> 01:16:29,140 coming in and, you know, playing on certain records? 1158 01:16:30,660 --> 01:16:35,143 It's so cool to be able to have a working relationship with 1159 01:16:35,144 --> 01:16:39,000 somebody who operates at an internationally renowned level. 1160 01:16:41,500 --> 01:16:45,220 So I show up not really knowing what to expect and he said, just do your thing. 1161 01:16:45,900 --> 01:16:50,520 And so I went into the live room and just, put in a Harmon Mute, and he immediately 1162 01:16:50,521 --> 01:16:53,980 responded to that sound, that Miles Davis kind of blue type of sound. 1163 01:16:59,410 --> 01:17:01,370 It's like I'm in a studio with Miles Davis, right? 1164 01:17:01,570 --> 01:17:04,066 To have somebody at a high caliber, being able 1165 01:17:04,067 --> 01:17:05,950 to be like, hey, can you play it like this? 1166 01:17:06,130 --> 01:17:07,506 And then they'll play it like that. 1167 01:17:07,530 --> 01:17:08,946 And then be like, oh, that was amazing. 1168 01:17:08,970 --> 01:17:10,030 Now, can you play it like this? 1169 01:17:10,031 --> 01:17:11,286 I'm like, yeah, I can play it like that. 1170 01:17:11,310 --> 01:17:12,190 It's like, oh, that was amazing. 1171 01:17:12,290 --> 01:17:12,730 Oh, my God. 1172 01:17:12,970 --> 01:17:13,970 Like, can you just play? 1173 01:17:14,010 --> 01:17:17,130 They all rapidly click until they disappear Clicking gradually quickens 1174 01:17:17,131 --> 01:17:24,610 until they disappear By the end of that session, the song just became this moody, 1175 01:17:24,790 --> 01:17:28,250 jazzy, organic hip-hop mix. 1176 01:17:35,650 --> 01:17:41,410 It graduated into my next album, where it was like, it was a no-brainer. 1177 01:17:41,570 --> 01:17:43,250 It was like, hey, I'm going to the studio. 1178 01:17:43,390 --> 01:17:44,390 I need Crystal. 1179 01:17:46,270 --> 01:17:49,269 I feel that the best artists understand that 1180 01:17:49,270 --> 01:17:51,950 we are all working in service to the music. 1181 01:17:52,210 --> 01:17:54,930 And while everyone has their roles at the end of 1182 01:17:54,931 --> 01:17:58,210 the day, the music is what brings people to them. 1183 01:18:11,660 --> 01:18:14,780 There is clearly a place for the next generation of societies. 1184 01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:18,400 But what about those of us who have been around the block a few times? 1185 01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:24,400 As far as the future goes for me as a sideman, I would say that it looks bleak. 1186 01:18:25,860 --> 01:18:29,540 In 2016, my main man, David Bowie, passed away. 1187 01:18:29,820 --> 01:18:31,180 That changed everything. 1188 01:18:37,210 --> 01:18:40,190 Ah, that's where the lift-off part comes in, isn't it? 1189 01:18:41,710 --> 01:18:48,290 Which is kind of what I felt happened when David passed. 1190 01:18:48,650 --> 01:18:50,190 You know, he lifted off. 1191 01:18:58,410 --> 01:19:04,190 David comes into my head every day since spring of 1974. 1192 01:19:04,810 --> 01:19:10,550 When you're entrenched with somebody that long, it just does not go away. 1193 01:19:12,250 --> 01:19:19,950 David meant a lot of things to me because he is the first person in my career that I 1194 01:19:19,951 --> 01:19:25,350 walked onto a stage with 20,000 people and had a gold record within six months. 1195 01:19:25,790 --> 01:19:27,950 And how much I learned from him. 1196 01:19:27,951 --> 01:19:30,530 I was always his guitar player. 1197 01:19:31,150 --> 01:19:33,773 Now I'm Earl Slick, the guitar player that used 1198 01:19:33,774 --> 01:19:37,211 to work with David Bowie when he was alive. 1199 01:19:39,490 --> 01:19:42,110 With David gone, it's going to be tough. 1200 01:19:45,150 --> 01:19:49,130 A lot of the guys I knew that were hiring sidemen are now retiring. 1201 01:19:49,470 --> 01:19:51,510 Which is kind of scary, but who knows? 1202 01:19:52,210 --> 01:19:53,210 Maybe liberating. 1203 01:20:01,220 --> 01:20:03,480 Bernard is doing more of his own thing. 1204 01:20:03,481 --> 01:20:05,420 Alongside his work with the Stones. 1205 01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:07,120 And that's got to be good. 1206 01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:16,320 Hopefully more people will see that I am only a sideman for the Rolling Stones. 1207 01:20:16,780 --> 01:20:21,540 When the Stones ain't rolling, Bernard's out shaking that money maker. 1208 01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:25,640 The future is I see myself as a solo artist. 1209 01:20:33,480 --> 01:20:34,740 I'll be shaking her hair. 1210 01:20:38,140 --> 01:20:40,260 You know, it's all independent. 1211 01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:41,520 I'm doing it myself. 1212 01:20:42,020 --> 01:20:44,000 There's no machine behind it. 1213 01:20:44,140 --> 01:20:46,160 And it's hard to get stuff heard. 1214 01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:50,700 Say goodbye to shy. 1215 01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:53,920 Groove is gonna tell you why. 1216 01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:57,540 I don't think he's happy as a solo artist by being with the Rolling Stones. 1217 01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,540 But it's very hard to succeed as anything in show business. 1218 01:21:01,541 --> 01:21:05,100 There's thousands of groups looking to make one single. 1219 01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:08,000 I mean, it's not an easy business to be in. 1220 01:21:12,860 --> 01:21:15,060 Bernard loves to step out of the shadow. 1221 01:21:15,340 --> 01:21:16,480 He loves to go and project. 1222 01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:19,340 You know, he'll make people feel good. 1223 01:21:19,940 --> 01:21:22,280 I think that's the reward for Bernard. 1224 01:21:26,420 --> 01:21:31,240 If I knew how to make my solo stuff... 1225 01:21:32,580 --> 01:21:38,940 break big enough for me to go out and perform it all the time, I would. 1226 01:21:40,940 --> 01:21:41,940 It's a great dog. 1227 01:21:42,300 --> 01:21:45,400 But it's still less than two years old, so it's still a puppy. 1228 01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:49,320 Steve Cropper, as ever, prefers to be in the shadows. 1229 01:21:49,620 --> 01:21:53,700 And he can afford to, having written some of the biggest hits of all time. 1230 01:21:53,980 --> 01:22:00,940 You can tell it hasn't hung it yet, but this is for 10 million plays from BMI. 1231 01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:03,300 Still in the package they gave it to me. 1232 01:22:03,500 --> 01:22:05,580 I've always wanted to just be the band member. 1233 01:22:05,780 --> 01:22:11,480 I would never want to be that famous where 24-7 somebody's trying to get to you. 1234 01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:19,521 And I pride myself in the fact that I, for years, was able to stay under the radar. 1235 01:22:19,660 --> 01:22:22,200 Because I get to play behind singers that are great. 1236 01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:25,180 They entertain, they dance, they do it all. 1237 01:22:25,380 --> 01:22:27,180 I'm back there just grooving, having a ball. 1238 01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:34,680 And as long as there are great singers, there are still going to be sidemen. 1239 01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:38,700 But the job may change a bit. 1240 01:22:40,700 --> 01:22:42,880 My job has changed in the last 30 years. 1241 01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:49,961 I'm not doing as much featuring spots, moving over for a new person to come in now. 1242 01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:53,293 And we do that, you know, to make room for 1243 01:22:53,294 --> 01:22:56,100 other artists to be featured that are coming in. 1244 01:22:56,620 --> 01:22:58,120 And that's fine. 1245 01:22:58,380 --> 01:22:59,540 That's natural progression. 1246 01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:03,120 You on that one, Crystal? 1247 01:23:03,440 --> 01:23:05,460 I'm just loving the place that I'm in. 1248 01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:08,240 I think I've just gotten more, I guess, seasoned. 1249 01:23:08,740 --> 01:23:09,740 You know? 1250 01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:11,200 What do you want to call it? 1251 01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:12,600 Seasoned. 1252 01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:19,300 Today, one avenue for us sideys is to revisit our past. 1253 01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:22,900 Which, to be honest, is a bit of a double -edged sword. 1254 01:23:24,220 --> 01:23:26,988 Prince's Revolution have recently reformed to 1255 01:23:26,989 --> 01:23:29,600 play a few gigs to celebrate the life of Prince. 1256 01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:30,880 Mommy, what is it? 1257 01:23:31,580 --> 01:23:34,040 The fans will always want it. 1258 01:23:34,140 --> 01:23:37,291 They're going to want the Revolution to go out there 1259 01:23:37,292 --> 01:23:40,480 because that keeps Prince alive for them, right? 1260 01:23:43,460 --> 01:23:44,720 Is this in the A? 1261 01:23:44,980 --> 01:23:45,980 It's to D. 1262 01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:47,160 A to D. 1263 01:23:47,820 --> 01:23:54,680 But how could this not be a slight midlife crisis and want to sort of get back the 1264 01:23:54,681 --> 01:23:57,860 taste of your own greatness from that moment? 1265 01:23:59,900 --> 01:24:00,500 But... 1266 01:24:00,501 --> 01:24:05,106 What I believe we're trying to do as a band is to try 1267 01:24:05,107 --> 01:24:10,380 and figure out is there a life to it or is it just that? 1268 01:24:14,260 --> 01:24:17,511 I'm not going to be stupid if what ends up 1269 01:24:17,512 --> 01:24:21,801 happening is a midlife crisis is leading the pack. 1270 01:24:22,220 --> 01:24:24,560 If that is what's driving this... 1271 01:24:25,460 --> 01:24:26,500 Bye, folks. 1272 01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:27,640 I'm out. 1273 01:24:28,980 --> 01:24:30,660 I've always hated anything on that D. 1274 01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:34,340 Unless we can make it huge, you know? 1275 01:24:34,460 --> 01:24:35,460 Like, wah! 1276 01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:41,601 I, too, have been revisiting my past and it has thrown my whole life into perspective. 1277 01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:46,500 For me, David Bowie was always there, even when he wasn't. 1278 01:24:47,780 --> 01:24:51,940 And now, performing his stuff without him is weird. 1279 01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:54,440 But there is a healing here. 1280 01:24:54,441 --> 01:24:58,340 And doing it with a fellow sidey makes me feel okay. 1281 01:24:59,020 --> 01:25:00,020 Somehow. 1282 01:25:02,230 --> 01:25:07,880 You know, two sidemen from two different camps coming together to do something. 1283 01:25:08,060 --> 01:25:13,400 But it's not... we're not just bringing the sidemen stuff with us. 1284 01:25:13,480 --> 01:25:18,040 We're bringing our own individual vibe and feel. 1285 01:25:18,460 --> 01:25:21,040 You got vocals all around, yes? 1286 01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:21,480 Yeah, yeah. 1287 01:25:21,481 --> 01:25:26,260 I think something really good is gonna come out of that mix. 1288 01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:36,821 I did not want to try to emulate David Bowie through a pseudo-Brit Bowie-okey dude. 1289 01:25:38,740 --> 01:25:39,940 Mission accomplished. 1290 01:25:40,180 --> 01:25:41,920 And I got to work with Bernard. 1291 01:25:42,180 --> 01:25:44,236 And we are now best friends and we'll continue 1292 01:25:44,237 --> 01:25:46,741 working together because I love the guy to death. 1293 01:25:55,180 --> 01:25:57,220 My name is Bernard Fowler. 1294 01:25:57,320 --> 01:25:58,880 And I'm happy as f*** to be here. 1295 01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:08,620 Please say hello to my partner in crime, the reason I'm here, Earl Slick. 1296 01:26:11,700 --> 01:26:15,600 I couldn't think of anybody but him that could really, not only pull it off, 1297 01:26:15,620 --> 01:26:20,440 like, vocally, but, you know, has his own stage thing. 1298 01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:21,760 And he wasn't gonna imitate. 1299 01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:24,116 You know, I know that he was just gonna be Bernard. 1300 01:26:24,140 --> 01:26:25,140 And that's what I wanted. 1301 01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:28,540 Look at the sky, the lights be gone. 1302 01:26:28,541 --> 01:26:31,720 Nights are warm and the days are young. 1303 01:26:47,670 --> 01:26:49,970 Bernard is magic. 1304 01:26:50,390 --> 01:26:59,870 He made them cry, he made them laugh, he made them scream. 1305 01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:08,380 The man got right to their gut. 1306 01:27:08,660 --> 01:27:10,540 And that ain't easy to do. 1307 01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:30,520 I mean, some shit happened last night on that stage. 1308 01:27:30,900 --> 01:27:32,440 That was my paycheck. 1309 01:27:34,340 --> 01:27:36,280 I'm going home with a smile on my face. 1310 01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:38,680 Just for one day. 1311 01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:45,480 Just for one day. 1312 01:28:06,630 --> 01:28:07,710 I am working. 1313 01:28:07,990 --> 01:28:09,130 To make money. 1314 01:28:09,131 --> 01:28:10,550 To pay my bills. 1315 01:28:10,650 --> 01:28:11,650 Take care of my children. 1316 01:28:12,150 --> 01:28:12,810 And eat. 1317 01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:14,550 Just like the rest of you guys do. 1318 01:28:14,750 --> 01:28:15,170 You know? 1319 01:28:15,350 --> 01:28:18,110 But I do have something that the other guy doesn't have. 1320 01:28:18,310 --> 01:28:19,310 I've got freedom. 1321 01:28:19,870 --> 01:28:22,010 I don't like being told what to do. 1322 01:28:22,250 --> 01:28:26,137 And I like the fact that, you know, I can just sit out 1323 01:28:26,138 --> 01:28:28,751 here by this creek sometimes and just f***ing do nothing. 1324 01:28:28,990 --> 01:28:34,030 And I'm not sitting in traffic four hours a day waiting to be 60 years old and 1325 01:28:34,031 --> 01:28:37,190 collecting some bullshit pension and a fake gold watch. 1326 01:28:38,130 --> 01:28:39,130 Then what? 1327 01:28:39,950 --> 01:28:42,790 Reality TV, Budweiser and popcorn? 1328 01:28:43,210 --> 01:28:43,890 Jesus. 1329 01:28:44,150 --> 01:28:45,150 Shoot me. 109953

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