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Most people probably don't know what a
sideman, or side woman for that matter, is.
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I'm a sideman.
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Have been for 40 years.
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My name is Earl Slick.
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I was David Bowie's sideman.
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Our job as sidies is to back up the big
names.
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You don't compete with the lead guy.
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That's not a sideman.
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Matter of fact, that's an out-of-work
musician.
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Most of the time, we are invisible.
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Ghosts at the top table.
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Our story takes you behind the scenes with
some of the world's biggest ever stars.
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Our
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job is to fit in with the star's vision.
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Personality, yes.
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Evo, no.
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The sideman or side woman is mainly the
star.
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And the dude on tour.
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But sometimes the lines are blurred.
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Some are guitarists.
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Some singers.
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00:02:01,390 --> 00:02:02,390
Keyboard players.
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Horn players.
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00:02:03,690 --> 00:02:05,630
And some are all of these rolled into one.
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Our percussion and saxophone.
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Keyboard, harmonica, you name it.
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Professor Crystal Callefero.
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And for the new generation of sidies,
it's a whole new ball game.
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00:02:29,380 --> 00:02:33,520
This film tells the untold story of rock
and roll's guns for hire.
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00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,120
How we began.
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How we survived.
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00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,580
And how our lives are very different from
what you guys imagine.
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The hard thing for a
sideman is the better you
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are at your job, the less
people will notice you.
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00:02:53,030 --> 00:02:54,650
And that's the whole point.
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00:03:14,810 --> 00:03:16,930
People always ask, do you get nervous?
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When I'm putting my clothes on and getting
in my makeup, no.
38
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Charlie J.
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Woods.
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00:03:24,150 --> 00:03:27,570
When I'm, you know, walking to the stage,
no.
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Keith Richards.
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The minute I hit that stage, I start to
feel this energy.
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Mr. Bernard Fallon.
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00:03:45,340 --> 00:03:47,960
Drum starts and then I start to get
nervous.
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00:03:49,260 --> 00:03:52,880
Then I look out of my peripheral and then
I see the boys.
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They were just ordinary.
47
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,220
Now I'm looking at them and they literally
turn into superheroes.
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00:03:59,340 --> 00:04:02,000
Yeah, and the storm is coming.
49
00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,180
And I'm nervous all the way up until I
sing the first note.
50
00:04:06,260 --> 00:04:10,920
The minute I sing the first note,
I slowly become settled.
51
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,420
And now I'm in the machine and we're
running.
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00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,280
It's just a shadow, it's just a shadow.
53
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It's special because it's the Rolling
Stones.
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It's the world's greatest rock and roll
band.
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That's special.
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00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:41,380
My friend Bernard has been side man to the
Stones for 30 years.
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00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:44,120
He's very much part of the show.
58
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I really like working with Bernard.
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It's really nice having him there.
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00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,520
I mean, most of the show when he's out
there, he's out there with a light on him
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00:04:52,521 --> 00:04:55,903
in front of like 60,000
people and stepping forward
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00:04:55,904 --> 00:04:58,240
and joking around
and he's definitely there.
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00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,420
And he's introduced, his name is called,
he's applauded.
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00:05:01,500 --> 00:05:03,100
He's part of this team.
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00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,520
I think he's very good at what he does.
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00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,180
He's hardworking, he doesn't screw up.
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00:05:16,580 --> 00:05:20,540
I mean, I'm not very good at learning from
other vocalists.
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00:05:20,740 --> 00:05:25,900
I mean, I probably could learn a lot from
him if I put my mind to it.
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00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:36,580
Bernard brings a reliability to Mick from
sound check where they have a rapport and
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00:05:36,581 --> 00:05:40,540
a strength that carries on to the live gig
where it's got to be delivered right.
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00:05:40,700 --> 00:05:42,440
Wait for it, wait for it.
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00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,580
No, not yet, not yet.
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Here.
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00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,720
I think there's been a couple of other
times where, either for one reason or
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00:05:50,721 --> 00:05:53,520
another, Mick get off stage and blow his
nose or whatever.
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00:05:55,660 --> 00:05:58,820
And he's taken over for a verse or two.
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00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,960
It would be very, very difficult to think
of the Stones without him.
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00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,440
God, I rely on him for so many things on
stage because he knows exactly what's
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going on and sometimes I'm lost in the
haze.
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I like that.
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00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:24,600
Here we go.
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00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,020
And all I do is look at V and he goes...
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00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:28,880
Right.
84
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:30,360
That's good.
85
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,340
Come on now, you can't...
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00:06:32,341 --> 00:06:35,928
To be versatile and to
be like a fireman as well,
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00:06:35,929 --> 00:06:40,040
probably another requirement
of an ultimate sideman.
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00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:45,249
I mean, we did 30 years
without any backups,
89
00:06:45,250 --> 00:06:49,480
but he certainly brings
quality and class to it.
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00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,167
For me, Bernard Fowler
is one of the best guys and
91
00:06:52,168 --> 00:06:56,580
one of the best undiscovered
voices in America.
92
00:07:00,150 --> 00:07:01,330
I love the Stones.
93
00:07:01,370 --> 00:07:03,130
I've watched their children grow up.
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00:07:03,310 --> 00:07:04,850
I love the music.
95
00:07:05,110 --> 00:07:06,970
They're like family at this point.
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00:07:09,110 --> 00:07:12,682
I look at Bernard and I
see the Rolling Stones
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00:07:12,683 --> 00:07:16,810
and I go, man, these guys
sing with the boys, man.
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00:07:16,910 --> 00:07:20,350
He's singing with the boys, not for them,
not background vocals.
99
00:07:20,610 --> 00:07:22,030
That's how I see it.
100
00:07:22,031 --> 00:07:23,950
Look, nothing against the audience.
101
00:07:24,190 --> 00:07:27,250
The audience gets caught up with the
Rolling Stones, they get caught up with
102
00:07:27,251 --> 00:07:29,571
David Bowie, they get caught up with the
Beatles, whatever.
103
00:07:29,850 --> 00:07:31,950
You are just an appendage of that.
104
00:07:32,310 --> 00:07:39,970
And I remember walking into some club and
some guy said, that's Bernard Fowler.
105
00:07:40,470 --> 00:07:42,850
He's a backup singer for the Rolling
Stones.
106
00:07:43,210 --> 00:07:48,290
And the guy said, bullshit, ain't no black
people in the Rolling Stones.
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00:07:48,810 --> 00:07:50,150
LAUGHTER LAUGHTER
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00:07:53,290 --> 00:07:56,950
This guy's obviously seen all the shows.
109
00:07:59,870 --> 00:08:03,250
It's your job not to horn in in any way
whatsoever.
110
00:08:03,810 --> 00:08:07,710
That word side takes on all connotations,
you know.
111
00:08:07,870 --> 00:08:09,190
You're to be invisible.
112
00:08:09,530 --> 00:08:11,730
That's the sublimation of the ego.
113
00:08:12,590 --> 00:08:15,090
A big ego is no good for a sideman.
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00:08:15,610 --> 00:08:21,771
You've got to know who you are,
where you stand in the hierarchy of things.
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00:08:22,590 --> 00:08:25,450
If you're a background vocalist,
that's what you have to accept.
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00:08:25,650 --> 00:08:27,770
You might say it's a bit of an indignity.
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00:08:27,970 --> 00:08:29,490
But, you know, if you're
clever enough, you'll
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00:08:29,510 --> 00:08:32,070
understand that, you know,
there's a reason I don't...
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00:08:32,071 --> 00:08:34,551
It's not because you're ugly and I don't
want you on the stage.
120
00:08:41,650 --> 00:08:43,770
I grew up in Long Island City,
Queens.
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00:08:44,050 --> 00:08:46,670
I grew up in a place called Queensbridge
Project.
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00:08:47,150 --> 00:08:50,210
If you're taking the subway, it's the
first stop outside of Manhattan.
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00:08:52,570 --> 00:08:54,030
Queensbridge was a rough area.
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00:08:54,650 --> 00:08:56,350
Really rough when I was growing up.
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00:08:56,550 --> 00:08:58,670
And it stayed that way for a long time.
126
00:09:00,630 --> 00:09:02,850
This used to be a really bad area.
127
00:09:03,050 --> 00:09:04,790
And I was part of the bad area.
128
00:09:05,110 --> 00:09:06,970
Before I came to my senses.
129
00:09:07,870 --> 00:09:09,130
I was really young.
130
00:09:10,510 --> 00:09:14,550
And I was doing like a lot of young black
kids in the inner city.
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00:09:14,670 --> 00:09:15,670
I was hustling.
132
00:09:16,030 --> 00:09:17,470
And here come the rollers.
133
00:09:17,850 --> 00:09:19,230
The cops come in.
134
00:09:19,770 --> 00:09:21,690
We're scattering like roaches.
135
00:09:21,691 --> 00:09:23,290
Everybody's throwing their shit.
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00:09:23,510 --> 00:09:24,590
Throwing their shit.
137
00:09:24,710 --> 00:09:25,830
I threw my shit.
138
00:09:26,110 --> 00:09:29,450
And the cop came by with his flashlight.
139
00:09:30,330 --> 00:09:31,790
And he looked at me.
140
00:09:33,250 --> 00:09:35,230
And he said, you know what, Fowler?
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00:09:36,250 --> 00:09:37,670
I can take you to jail.
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00:09:39,310 --> 00:09:40,630
I know your mother.
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00:09:41,430 --> 00:09:42,790
I know Miss Pearl.
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00:09:44,150 --> 00:09:48,650
He said, if I catch you down here again,
if I catch you down here again,
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00:09:49,330 --> 00:09:51,210
I'm taking your ass to jail.
146
00:09:51,211 --> 00:09:52,906
I don't care whether I know your mother or
not.
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00:09:52,930 --> 00:09:54,290
Your ass is going to jail.
148
00:09:56,110 --> 00:09:57,430
That was a wake-up call.
149
00:10:03,630 --> 00:10:07,410
Bernard, like most of us sighties,
didn't set out to be a backing musician.
150
00:10:08,410 --> 00:10:10,390
Most of us wanted to be the star.
151
00:10:11,250 --> 00:10:12,250
Hell yeah.
152
00:10:17,090 --> 00:10:19,790
We put this band together, The Peach Boys.
153
00:10:20,530 --> 00:10:23,330
The next thing you know, we were in the
studio.
154
00:10:23,331 --> 00:10:28,390
I went in and sang this song, Don't Make
Me Wait.
155
00:10:30,110 --> 00:10:31,710
It took off.
156
00:10:31,730 --> 00:10:35,050
We were king of the airwaves when that
record came out.
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00:10:36,410 --> 00:10:40,010
Every club that you go, you hear Bernard.
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00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:43,110
So he started to build up his name.
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00:10:43,850 --> 00:10:46,391
And I wouldn't call it
as a background singer
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00:10:46,392 --> 00:10:48,630
because a lot of this
stuff was lead vocal.
161
00:10:48,970 --> 00:10:53,310
I drank from the day of my life.
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00:10:54,370 --> 00:10:57,530
And I had done some pretty diverse
records.
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00:10:58,030 --> 00:11:01,010
And when vocals were needed, I thought of
Bernard.
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00:11:03,630 --> 00:11:07,870
But just as Bernard was becoming a
respected frontman in his own right
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00:11:07,871 --> 00:11:11,550
touring the world, he got a call from
producer Bill Laswell.
166
00:11:11,930 --> 00:11:14,370
The call was going to change the rest of
his life.
167
00:11:16,150 --> 00:11:17,210
I go home.
168
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:19,410
Bill Laswell calls me.
169
00:11:19,530 --> 00:11:20,790
Hey, man, what you doing, man?
170
00:11:22,130 --> 00:11:23,230
Said nothing, man.
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00:11:24,530 --> 00:11:24,930
Cool.
172
00:11:25,510 --> 00:11:26,510
Go to the airport.
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00:11:26,690 --> 00:11:28,350
I'm like, nah, man, you don't understand.
174
00:11:28,570 --> 00:11:30,610
I just came from the airport.
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00:11:30,670 --> 00:11:33,050
I just walked into my apartment.
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00:11:33,570 --> 00:11:35,150
He says, go back to the airport.
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00:11:35,790 --> 00:11:38,510
I said, Bill, you don't understand.
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00:11:38,670 --> 00:11:39,910
I just walked in.
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00:11:40,270 --> 00:11:41,270
Go back to the airport.
180
00:11:42,370 --> 00:11:43,590
So I go back to the airport.
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00:11:43,950 --> 00:11:46,350
Say to the lady, is there a ticket here
for me?
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00:11:47,950 --> 00:11:49,150
This is the good old days.
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00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:51,350
Yes, we have a first-class ticket for you
to go to.
184
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:52,550
I said, where am I going?
185
00:11:52,551 --> 00:11:52,630
Where are you going?
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00:11:52,650 --> 00:11:54,146
She said, you don't know where you're
going.
187
00:11:54,170 --> 00:11:55,270
No, you're going to London.
188
00:11:57,230 --> 00:11:58,510
I arrive in London.
189
00:11:58,830 --> 00:12:00,210
Still don't know why I'm there.
190
00:12:00,850 --> 00:12:02,190
Bill picks me up.
191
00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:03,730
Huge black Bentley.
192
00:12:05,210 --> 00:12:07,330
We walk up the steps to this house.
193
00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:09,710
Ding dong.
194
00:12:10,130 --> 00:12:11,230
Bill walks in.
195
00:12:11,390 --> 00:12:12,670
I walk in behind him.
196
00:12:13,030 --> 00:12:15,930
There's a guy sitting on the floor with a
guitar in his hand.
197
00:12:16,290 --> 00:12:18,750
And the guy turned around and looked at
me.
198
00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:20,350
It was Mick.
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00:12:21,010 --> 00:12:22,650
I had no idea.
200
00:12:24,370 --> 00:12:25,670
I'm standing there.
201
00:12:25,890 --> 00:12:30,050
I'm saying to myself, oh shit,
oh shit.
202
00:12:30,290 --> 00:12:33,290
That's all I could think was oh shit.
203
00:12:33,790 --> 00:12:37,710
He gives me a cassette and he says,
you know, when we get to the studio
204
00:12:37,711 --> 00:12:40,370
tomorrow, this is the stuff that we're
going to be working on.
205
00:12:40,930 --> 00:12:45,288
So I went back to the
hotel and I did all the
206
00:12:45,289 --> 00:12:49,991
vocal arrangements on
this four track machine.
207
00:12:50,270 --> 00:12:51,330
Just another night.
208
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:53,230
Just another night.
209
00:12:53,250 --> 00:12:56,530
He did some good things on She's the Boss
album.
210
00:12:56,830 --> 00:12:58,790
We worked together quite closely on that.
211
00:12:58,950 --> 00:13:01,170
I can't remember exactly what we did.
212
00:13:01,171 --> 00:13:01,850
It's a long time ago.
213
00:13:02,110 --> 00:13:03,530
But we worked quite closely.
214
00:13:09,780 --> 00:13:12,660
I did all the vocal arrangements for She's
the Boss.
215
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:18,680
That means all the choruses and all the
background stuff.
216
00:13:19,300 --> 00:13:22,660
All the vocals you hear other than his
lead, I did.
217
00:13:24,420 --> 00:13:25,700
I got the chacophane...
218
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,760
You pray the Queen I pray the name...
219
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,800
Oh... I'm lucky at love...
220
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:42,240
A change... Normally I do
most of my own harmonies.
221
00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:44,980
But he can change his vocal style to fit
in with yours.
222
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,080
So it sounds like me singing twice.
223
00:13:48,420 --> 00:13:49,420
He can make it that.
224
00:13:49,540 --> 00:13:53,441
Or he can make it sound like another person
so we can sound like two different people.
225
00:13:58,940 --> 00:14:02,140
The relationship was very easy with Mick
and I.
226
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:10,360
It got not so easy once the band came.
227
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:18,961
Bernard finally got to work with all of the
Stones on their Steel Wheels album in 89.
228
00:14:22,820 --> 00:14:26,336
Mick calls and says, you
know, Stones are getting ready
229
00:14:26,337 --> 00:14:29,160
to do a new record, and
I can really use your help.
230
00:14:29,620 --> 00:14:32,980
I'm like, okay, cool, but where are you?
231
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,560
You know, he gives me the address to the
studio.
232
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,000
One by one, the Stones started coming in.
233
00:14:40,420 --> 00:14:41,760
Charlie coming in.
234
00:14:43,220 --> 00:14:44,800
I'm like, oh shit.
235
00:14:45,740 --> 00:14:47,380
You know, I say oh shit a lot.
236
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:49,600
Bill Wyman comes in.
237
00:14:49,860 --> 00:14:50,860
Oh shit.
238
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,580
Ronnie Wood walks in.
239
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,200
Hey.
240
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:57,360
Cool.
241
00:14:57,580 --> 00:14:58,940
Keith walks in.
242
00:14:59,060 --> 00:15:00,060
Oh shit.
243
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,660
And I'm in there, you know, coming up with
the ideas.
244
00:15:06,420 --> 00:15:09,242
That's when Mick
says, hey, okay, I like the
245
00:15:09,243 --> 00:15:11,580
idea, so let's go
and do it for real now.
246
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:12,780
Not bad.
247
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:13,260
Nice.
248
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,520
I feel some heat.
249
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,220
And Keith is looking at me.
250
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,780
And I'm like, oh man, this is not good.
251
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,360
I'm looking at this dreadlock,
you know.
252
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,920
This staring went on, it went on way too
long.
253
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,160
So I said, I got to say something to this
cat man.
254
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,660
I looked at him and I said, is everything
all right?
255
00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:43,100
At which point he says, you know,
I didn't want to like you.
256
00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:46,900
And I'm like, again, oh shit.
257
00:15:49,860 --> 00:15:51,460
I said, why man?
258
00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:52,260
I said, uh-uh.
259
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:53,560
I said, I'm cool.
260
00:15:55,380 --> 00:16:00,000
And he says, I thought you were one of
Mick's boys.
261
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:02,360
I'm like, oh.
262
00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:08,120
Because Mick and I were on it like,
oh, anybody that Mick picks up is not
263
00:16:08,121 --> 00:16:10,360
going to end up on a Rolling Stones
session, you know.
264
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,340
And then he says, I know you're cool.
265
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:18,480
Cool.
266
00:16:19,060 --> 00:16:20,880
You know, we get on with work.
267
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,060
And we were working so well together.
268
00:16:23,580 --> 00:16:27,960
That day, you know, we became firm
friends.
269
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,920
And it was a funny way of meeting,
you know.
270
00:16:44,350 --> 00:16:49,050
When Bernard is singing background,
he's a support singer.
271
00:16:49,290 --> 00:16:52,410
You know, he is supporting what they're
doing.
272
00:16:56,330 --> 00:17:00,710
And it's interesting because a lot of
singers, when they're doing background and
273
00:17:00,711 --> 00:17:05,891
can sing lead as well as he sings,
usually one or the other thing will suffer.
274
00:17:06,930 --> 00:17:09,949
Either the background
singing isn't strong or you can't
275
00:17:09,950 --> 00:17:12,471
remember parts or you can't
do this or you can't do that.
276
00:17:12,910 --> 00:17:15,650
There's like nothing in my book that he
can't do.
277
00:17:16,130 --> 00:17:18,490
Once he says, yeah, I got this.
278
00:17:19,190 --> 00:17:22,050
Call me the jungle in the night.
279
00:17:23,530 --> 00:17:24,130
Call me the jungle in the night.
280
00:17:24,131 --> 00:17:25,710
I've always thought about Bernard.
281
00:17:26,090 --> 00:17:28,230
That guy is actually too good.
282
00:17:28,370 --> 00:17:33,130
But at the same time, I understand it because
he just loves to work with the Stones.
283
00:17:33,470 --> 00:17:35,510
Call me the jungle in the night.
284
00:17:35,511 --> 00:17:39,630
You know, coming up through the ranks,
something that was always important to me
285
00:17:39,631 --> 00:17:44,075
was to be acknowledged
and respected by the
286
00:17:44,076 --> 00:17:48,150
people that seemed to
be above where I was.
287
00:17:48,250 --> 00:17:51,150
The people that I wanted to play with,
you know.
288
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:57,090
That's something that I always,
I look for that more than anything,
289
00:17:57,310 --> 00:18:00,870
to be received by those cats.
290
00:18:01,010 --> 00:18:03,790
Those cats that are out there doing it,
you know.
291
00:18:03,930 --> 00:18:06,810
They're someplace that I've strived to be.
292
00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:10,410
And that means I'm good enough to hang.
293
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:13,110
I'm good enough to hang out with them.
294
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:16,550
I'm good enough not just hang out with
them, I'm good enough to play with them.
295
00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:18,830
Yeah, that's a validation.
296
00:18:22,450 --> 00:18:25,125
The validation that
Bernard feels when he is
297
00:18:25,126 --> 00:18:27,770
with the Rolling Stones
is what we all want.
298
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:30,950
To feel part of something rather than an
outsider.
299
00:18:33,570 --> 00:18:38,370
I worked for 40 years on and off with
David Bowie and it defined my life.
300
00:18:38,970 --> 00:18:41,330
But playing music was never a choice.
301
00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:42,890
It was a calling.
302
00:18:45,810 --> 00:18:47,290
I was a lousy student.
303
00:18:47,550 --> 00:18:48,730
I can't take orders.
304
00:18:48,930 --> 00:18:51,410
I don't like being pushed around and not
being told what to do.
305
00:18:51,470 --> 00:18:55,290
So that eliminates probably 99% of the job
market right there.
306
00:18:57,930 --> 00:19:01,050
I sucked in school, so college was out.
307
00:19:01,210 --> 00:19:02,610
I barely got through high school.
308
00:19:02,910 --> 00:19:04,350
And I just loved it.
309
00:19:04,770 --> 00:19:06,790
First of all, I just loved
playing and listening,
310
00:19:06,791 --> 00:19:09,351
which I did 24 hours
a day and still do.
311
00:19:10,490 --> 00:19:12,830
But I didn't even know what the hell a
sideman was.
312
00:19:12,990 --> 00:19:17,630
I never sat around thinking, boy,
I'd like to be so-and-so's guitar player.
313
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:24,770
By the time I was 18, I had my own band
and a new name to go with it.
314
00:19:27,890 --> 00:19:29,650
He created a persona.
315
00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:33,130
Instead of Frank Mataloni, now he was Earl
Slick.
316
00:19:33,210 --> 00:19:34,830
That sounds pretty good, you know.
317
00:19:35,070 --> 00:19:36,270
He had the look.
318
00:19:36,271 --> 00:19:37,271
He had the attitude.
319
00:19:37,550 --> 00:19:38,830
He had the arrogance.
320
00:19:39,050 --> 00:19:39,850
He had the certainty.
321
00:19:40,010 --> 00:19:41,010
He had the cockiness.
322
00:19:43,730 --> 00:19:47,610
In 1974, I got a call from a British guy
called David Bowie.
323
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:53,650
I wasn't really that familiar with his
work, but I thought, what the hell?
324
00:19:55,830 --> 00:19:57,946
I'm sitting there like a jerk for a couple
of minutes.
325
00:19:57,970 --> 00:20:01,418
And then comes in
this skinny, spooky-ass
326
00:20:01,419 --> 00:20:04,450
looking guy with bright
red hair and no eyebrows.
327
00:20:04,570 --> 00:20:05,150
I said, no eyebrows.
328
00:20:05,310 --> 00:20:06,310
I was like, what?
329
00:20:06,670 --> 00:20:07,670
Anyway, he sat down.
330
00:20:07,710 --> 00:20:08,190
He was great.
331
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:08,610
It was David.
332
00:20:08,750 --> 00:20:09,610
And he was great.
333
00:20:09,690 --> 00:20:10,830
He had a guitar with him.
334
00:20:11,790 --> 00:20:13,110
Jacket with a bottle of brandy.
335
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:14,590
Guy just threw it down.
336
00:20:15,570 --> 00:20:16,810
And we played.
337
00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:18,490
Had some brandy.
338
00:20:18,491 --> 00:20:19,651
We talked for a little while.
339
00:20:19,930 --> 00:20:20,810
It was fun.
340
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:21,870
It was pleasant.
341
00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:22,830
And he said, great.
342
00:20:22,990 --> 00:20:25,670
You can talk to my assistant and we'll let
you know what's going on.
343
00:20:26,330 --> 00:20:28,090
Phone rang the next morning, thank God.
344
00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:30,830
He said, David wants to know if you're
interested in doing this.
345
00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:32,550
And that's where it all started.
346
00:20:33,230 --> 00:20:34,650
I went for the for sure shot.
347
00:20:35,730 --> 00:20:37,430
And that's when the Sideman thing started.
348
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:39,350
That was not my goal.
349
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,160
David could have taken...
350
00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:54,580
on any guitarist of any level of skill,
but instead he took on this talented,
351
00:20:54,740 --> 00:20:58,200
but raw, young, kind of unbridled spirit
from Brooklyn.
352
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:04,620
And I think coming to know David as I did,
I really see, you know, why he did that.
353
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:07,832
He really dialed into sort
of people's spirit, people's
354
00:21:07,833 --> 00:21:09,940
vibe, you know, what they
could bring to the situation.
355
00:21:09,941 --> 00:21:12,740
Not just musically, but personality-wise.
356
00:21:15,580 --> 00:21:19,620
Dialing into what you could bring to the
artist is what all Sidemen want.
357
00:21:20,420 --> 00:21:24,140
David didn't tell me what to play,
but what to do.
358
00:21:24,740 --> 00:21:28,060
He allowed me to express myself within his
music.
359
00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:33,240
He accepted me as part of his vision.
360
00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:35,220
I wasn't an outsider.
361
00:21:52,510 --> 00:21:59,990
I was a child.
362
00:22:00,050 --> 00:22:00,230
And I was a young boy when I was a
teenager.
363
00:22:00,231 --> 00:22:00,510
I didn't know what to do, what to do,
what to do.
364
00:22:00,511 --> 00:22:00,890
I never knew what to do.
365
00:22:01,190 --> 00:22:01,490
You never know what to do.
366
00:22:01,650 --> 00:22:03,610
Then I realized... This
is what I found out.
367
00:22:03,611 --> 00:22:08,650
Uh -huh.
368
00:22:10,030 --> 00:22:14,810
And he would look at me in this big smile,
just before even the solos came in.
369
00:22:14,910 --> 00:22:17,630
He had this big smile on his face,
man.
370
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:20,230
And that would drive me home, man.
371
00:22:20,350 --> 00:22:21,350
That would drive me home.
372
00:22:26,580 --> 00:22:30,080
Respect for what we bring to the table is
what we sideys live off.
373
00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:32,380
It makes you go that extra mile.
374
00:22:36,670 --> 00:22:41,250
But I never forgot that it was David
Bowie's name on the billboard, not mine.
375
00:22:45,540 --> 00:22:49,700
But there are times when sideys are thrust
right into the spotlight.
376
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,520
Almost as visible as the stars themselves.
377
00:22:57,810 --> 00:23:01,510
When Prince became Prince in the
Revolution, he wanted sidemen.
378
00:23:02,290 --> 00:23:07,470
Or in this case, sidewomen who could bring
something a little extra to the party.
379
00:23:08,130 --> 00:23:09,390
And look the part.
380
00:23:10,590 --> 00:23:12,470
That would be Wendy and Lisa.
381
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:37,750
I think Prince's vision about the band
being mixed, male, female, black,
382
00:23:37,950 --> 00:23:43,370
Jewish, that was a very conscious decision
and a desire on his part.
383
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:49,970
Lisa and I, not only being female,
we were lovers.
384
00:23:50,490 --> 00:23:52,330
We were a couple.
385
00:23:53,670 --> 00:23:56,510
And he was like, oh my God, it's female?
386
00:23:56,730 --> 00:23:57,750
It's gay?
387
00:23:57,751 --> 00:23:59,810
And everybody just freaking, right?
388
00:24:00,010 --> 00:24:02,370
It's controversy, this is it, oh my god!
389
00:24:05,390 --> 00:24:09,670
Back then with new wave music,
a lot of bands were coming out with girls.
390
00:24:10,270 --> 00:24:13,130
And it was just a novelty, I think,
at first.
391
00:24:13,310 --> 00:24:18,970
And just a sexy, arm candy, somebody to
play that role.
392
00:24:22,890 --> 00:24:26,505
But Wendy and I turned
it into power instead of just
393
00:24:26,506 --> 00:24:29,290
like a frilly little
something pretty to look at.
394
00:24:30,550 --> 00:24:35,070
I had like 80s stockings and I was like,
yeah, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna add a
395
00:24:35,071 --> 00:24:39,690
nastiness to it, so I'll accept the garter
because I am playful.
396
00:24:41,210 --> 00:24:43,870
But I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna show you
my tits.
397
00:24:45,570 --> 00:24:48,950
I was the female facilitator so that he
had all the control.
398
00:24:48,970 --> 00:24:53,550
He had all the room to be like this sexy,
hot, androgynous tornado, right?
399
00:24:55,510 --> 00:25:01,650
He knew where to dig and once he found his
gold, it was like, I'm free now.
400
00:25:02,130 --> 00:25:04,450
And we were perfect frame.
401
00:25:04,910 --> 00:25:06,610
And that is great.
402
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:07,870
Side players.
403
00:25:09,130 --> 00:25:14,370
Give that front person the freedom to fall
on their asses.
404
00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:16,941
You make sure that
they've got the perfect little
405
00:25:16,942 --> 00:25:19,651
environment to be the
freak they want to be.
406
00:25:24,430 --> 00:25:26,330
Wendy and Lisa got Prince.
407
00:25:26,610 --> 00:25:27,750
They understood him.
408
00:25:28,010 --> 00:25:29,990
Knew what he needed before he did.
409
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:32,870
And boy, could they play.
410
00:25:36,970 --> 00:25:39,250
And again, clusters all the time.
411
00:25:39,650 --> 00:25:42,850
Lisa was actually a trained, serious
player.
412
00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:47,610
Lisa could push back to Prince
because she was the only player
413
00:25:47,611 --> 00:25:51,490
who could do things better
than he could on her instrument.
414
00:25:53,450 --> 00:25:55,350
Wendy and Lisa had grown up together.
415
00:25:55,970 --> 00:26:00,190
Lisa essentially invited Wendy to come
along on some of the tours.
416
00:26:00,390 --> 00:26:01,970
And she was around.
417
00:26:02,430 --> 00:26:04,710
She knows the parts and she can play.
418
00:26:04,930 --> 00:26:08,990
And apparently Prince is kind of,
you know, knocked sideways in that moment.
419
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:11,930
Like, that's not just Lisa's friend,
that's a real player.
420
00:26:14,450 --> 00:26:15,550
On Purple Rain.
421
00:26:16,190 --> 00:26:18,350
There's a song called Computer Blue.
422
00:26:18,810 --> 00:26:20,930
I mean, we co-wrote that song with Prince.
423
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:25,830
He came up with an idea and said,
I just, I need to put the frame in it.
424
00:26:25,870 --> 00:26:28,970
I got to put it in the pot and put the
pressure cooker on now.
425
00:26:29,050 --> 00:26:30,290
Let's see what we come up with.
426
00:26:34,250 --> 00:26:36,650
I started playing the lead line to this.
427
00:26:40,910 --> 00:26:44,948
When we were first writing
the song, the lead line came
428
00:26:44,949 --> 00:26:47,950
out of Wendy and I just fooling
around with synth sounds.
429
00:26:48,190 --> 00:26:50,390
And I think that really inspired Prince.
430
00:26:50,970 --> 00:26:55,230
I think he thought that was a really
important part of the song and the groove.
431
00:26:58,350 --> 00:27:02,010
He just was like, yeah, high five and a
writing credit.
432
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,681
I find that a great task
for me as someone who
433
00:27:11,682 --> 00:27:15,200
tries to be as good of
a musician as I can be.
434
00:27:15,201 --> 00:27:19,780
Not just an instrumentalist, but what can
I offer the artist to be better?
435
00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:24,354
The song Purple Rain in
the movie, he says, you know,
436
00:27:24,355 --> 00:27:26,561
I'd like to perform a
song that the girls wrote.
437
00:27:27,340 --> 00:27:33,340
I had an interview and someone misquoted
me when asked, did you write Purple Rain?
438
00:27:33,540 --> 00:27:35,480
And the answer in the print was yes.
439
00:27:35,980 --> 00:27:40,660
I get a phone call from Prince and he's
extremely upset.
440
00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:43,860
Why did you say that?
441
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,620
Do you think you wrote Purple Rain?
442
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,200
And I said, stop.
443
00:27:54,460 --> 00:27:55,460
No.
444
00:27:56,060 --> 00:27:57,660
But we helped you.
445
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,540
Prince walked in the room and said,
here's the chord progressions.
446
00:28:03,780 --> 00:28:07,800
I thought to myself, oh, it's like a very
country progression.
447
00:28:07,820 --> 00:28:14,900
And what I pride myself on is finding a
way to re-harmonize something.
448
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,360
Something that's very simple.
449
00:28:17,980 --> 00:28:20,480
I never meant to cause you any sorrow.
450
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,003
So I played the chords,
but I stretched bottom
451
00:28:24,004 --> 00:28:26,541
notes and I put
ninths, different shades.
452
00:28:26,780 --> 00:28:28,940
I never meant to cause you any pain.
453
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,180
Here comes the chords.
454
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,920
Those are the opening chords of Purple
Rain.
455
00:28:48,921 --> 00:28:51,200
Did I write Purple Rain?
456
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:52,720
No.
457
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,815
But would Purple Rain
have been the song that
458
00:28:56,816 --> 00:29:00,360
you hear to this day
without Chef coming in?
459
00:29:00,420 --> 00:29:02,320
This is the dish I want to cook.
460
00:29:02,620 --> 00:29:05,280
I've assembled an incredible crew here.
461
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:06,520
What are we going to do?
462
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:11,120
I never meant to cause you any...
463
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:19,310
I never meant to cause you any...
464
00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:35,750
To see you laughing...
465
00:29:43,550 --> 00:29:47,110
The version of Purple Rain
used in the film is a recording
466
00:29:47,111 --> 00:29:49,511
of Wendy's first live
appearance with The Revolution.
467
00:29:50,510 --> 00:29:52,830
She was just 19 years old.
468
00:29:55,070 --> 00:29:59,130
I wanted to be a great guitar player in a
great band.
469
00:29:59,590 --> 00:30:01,870
I wanted to be a great player.
470
00:30:01,871 --> 00:30:06,062
But there's ambivalence
about that role that I
471
00:30:06,063 --> 00:30:10,231
had and what I knew
Lisa and I were giving him.
472
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:15,090
I did have moments of anger at him.
473
00:30:15,770 --> 00:30:19,470
I always wanted him to say, You're great!
474
00:30:20,370 --> 00:30:22,870
God, I couldn't do this without you!
475
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:24,510
Man!
476
00:30:25,530 --> 00:30:29,490
It never... That didn't
come out of his mouth.
477
00:30:31,290 --> 00:30:38,270
Prince made it perfectly clear that if you
were there and you had that role and you
478
00:30:38,271 --> 00:30:41,450
were next to him playing, that was his
validation.
479
00:30:41,890 --> 00:30:46,930
But in the spirit of full disclosure,
I wanted his validation.
480
00:30:55,100 --> 00:31:00,300
But when it came right down to it,
he had every right to ignore you.
481
00:31:00,820 --> 00:31:02,400
He hired you.
482
00:31:03,260 --> 00:31:05,220
He wanted to do this thing.
483
00:31:05,380 --> 00:31:07,160
And he was signed to Warner Brothers.
484
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,640
And it wasn't specified.
485
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:14,960
There wasn't a distinction made that you
are now going to partake in my soup.
486
00:31:16,580 --> 00:31:19,300
It was just like, this is going to be
awesome.
487
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,420
Aren't you going to have fun?
488
00:31:21,620 --> 00:31:22,620
I'm having fun.
489
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:23,800
And we're like, yeah!
490
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,740
I'll get it, baby!
491
00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:37,480
Being on stage in front of tens of
thousands of people alongside Prince,
492
00:31:37,481 --> 00:31:41,420
or Bowie, or whoever, is a pretty special
feeling.
493
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:42,760
It is.
494
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,380
But what all of us sideys have to accept
is that we are not the stars.
495
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,460
I knew where I was in the pecking order
with David Bowie.
496
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:57,060
I was the gun for hire with a job to do.
497
00:31:57,660 --> 00:32:00,420
As sidemen, we are there to support.
498
00:32:04,830 --> 00:32:12,110
If he's tired or a little distracted,
he relied on me to take that spot.
499
00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:13,490
That's my job.
500
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:19,030
Slick could be a foil.
501
00:32:19,170 --> 00:32:21,870
That was definitely part of what he did
for David.
502
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:26,010
Slick was really maybe the more animal of
the two.
503
00:32:26,210 --> 00:32:30,330
And that animal element really needed to
be there, that earthiness.
504
00:32:30,610 --> 00:32:32,950
And Slicky was really that personified.
505
00:32:36,030 --> 00:32:37,510
But it's still his tour.
506
00:32:37,930 --> 00:32:42,870
So to make it his tour, to make sure that
he came looking in the best light,
507
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:47,950
my job is to catch him when he's going to
fall down, make sure that I pick up the
508
00:32:47,951 --> 00:32:52,510
energy if he doesn't have it, and make it
work on that stage.
509
00:32:52,970 --> 00:32:54,110
That's my sideman.
510
00:32:54,170 --> 00:32:55,170
That's what I do.
511
00:32:56,770 --> 00:33:00,868
And you've got to remember,
because I've seen sidemen go
512
00:33:00,869 --> 00:33:03,670
sideways, all of a sudden
they think they're the star.
513
00:33:04,730 --> 00:33:05,730
Uh-uh.
514
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:07,070
Bad move.
515
00:33:07,150 --> 00:33:07,510
.
516
00:33:07,511 --> 00:33:08,511
.
517
00:33:13,650 --> 00:33:20,450
They work together in a sonic way,
and they can work together visually.
518
00:33:20,970 --> 00:33:23,030
Earl never upstages David.
519
00:33:23,290 --> 00:33:28,450
You know, it's just kind of a great match
-up of mutual respect.
520
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,560
When I worked with David, I got to play
both on the road and in the studio.
521
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,340
And for me, that was just great.
522
00:33:53,220 --> 00:33:58,080
But there are also those players who are
only hired to work in the studio.
523
00:34:00,340 --> 00:34:01,840
The session musicians.
524
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,600
I mean, there are guys that just do
sessions.
525
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:10,920
They don't go on the road.
526
00:34:11,020 --> 00:34:12,680
They don't necessarily ever play live.
527
00:34:13,860 --> 00:34:18,060
So I think that's the difference between a
session man and a sideman.
528
00:34:18,180 --> 00:34:21,940
A sideman is expecting to play to an
audience live.
529
00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:24,100
A session man...
530
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,560
maybe never plays live or only
occasionally.
531
00:34:28,820 --> 00:34:34,100
A session player, you think of him being
in recording studios, but the sideman has
532
00:34:34,101 --> 00:34:36,740
a little more input to the artist they're
working with.
533
00:34:36,860 --> 00:34:39,440
His feedback is amazingly important.
534
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,600
You know, but I've been in recording
sessions where I've changed the whole vibe
535
00:34:44,601 --> 00:34:47,800
of the studio, you know, just based on
what I've played.
536
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,180
Sometimes that's not wanted by the artist,
and it's not comfortable.
537
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,120
This is not your gig, they'll say.
538
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:56,740
This is not your gig.
539
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,080
What are you telling us?
540
00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,400
We have a vision.
541
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,060
Your job is to execute it.
542
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,540
Executing the vision of the artist was
extremely important for session players,
543
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:10,880
especially in the 60s.
544
00:35:12,220 --> 00:35:17,740
But one guy who I really looked up to and
successfully combined the roles of session
545
00:35:17,741 --> 00:35:21,540
man and sideman was guitar legend Steve
Cropper.
546
00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:27,520
Hey, call me back.
547
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,620
I'm in the middle of an interview doing a
video.
548
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:30,880
Okay.
549
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:33,320
Sound pretty good.
550
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,420
Steve Cropper was part of the Stax record
label based out of Memphis, Tennessee.
551
00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:49,940
I would say that Steve Cropper,
without a doubt, is one of the greatest
552
00:35:49,941 --> 00:35:54,480
sideman session men I've ever seen in my
life.
553
00:35:55,100 --> 00:36:00,540
Because he could adapt to whatever the
flavor and role would be in a credible way.
554
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,100
And his commitment to it would be all in.
555
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,140
And that was the thing that made Steve
special.
556
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,673
When we first heard
Booker T's stuff, we naturally
557
00:36:12,674 --> 00:36:15,441
assumed it was an
all-black affair, you know.
558
00:36:15,620 --> 00:36:18,964
And it was quite a maze
to find out that Steve was
559
00:36:18,965 --> 00:36:22,400
white and Duck Dunn, the
bass player, was also white.
560
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,720
But at the time, this was still pretty
unique.
561
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:33,720
Booker T and the MGs had hits and then
also functioned as the band that was
562
00:36:33,721 --> 00:36:36,640
backing the different vocalists that came
through.
563
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,128
With Stax, you have
a sense that it's a band
564
00:36:45,129 --> 00:36:47,640
that's creating a sound
that's a signature sound.
565
00:36:47,641 --> 00:36:50,040
We out here on the floor now
566
00:36:56,450 --> 00:37:02,616
Oh yeah, oh yeah The formula
back in the 60s, everybody
567
00:37:02,617 --> 00:37:05,930
had their own studio and
their own set of musicians.
568
00:37:07,590 --> 00:37:10,782
You know, they didn't look
up in the phone book and call
569
00:37:10,783 --> 00:37:13,331
this guy because he's good
or that guy because he's good.
570
00:37:13,610 --> 00:37:15,210
They were the same guys all the time.
571
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:17,490
And we played on almost every session.
572
00:37:18,990 --> 00:37:23,170
Don't you ever, don't you ever Don't you
ever, don't you ever When Steve's worked
573
00:37:23,171 --> 00:37:26,044
with Booker T, he was
also the indispensable
574
00:37:26,045 --> 00:37:28,990
side man to Wilson
Pickett and to Sam & Dave.
575
00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:34,290
And in a business where everyone is
indispensable, that's unusual.
576
00:37:36,190 --> 00:37:37,190
When
577
00:37:39,860 --> 00:37:44,520
we would do a Sam & Dave session,
Steve would bring the flavor that we're
578
00:37:44,521 --> 00:37:46,787
looking for and we're
communicating for the Sam & Dave
579
00:37:46,788 --> 00:37:49,820
project that you could tell
that sounded like Sam & Dave.
580
00:37:50,100 --> 00:37:54,960
And if he were then, in fact, doing the
Booker T and the MGs, he would take that
581
00:37:54,961 --> 00:38:00,080
role, and it would sound like Booker T and
the MGs, yet it's the same four players.
582
00:38:00,300 --> 00:38:06,781
And you've got to be a special, special
side man to make that work that way.
583
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:17,140
At Stax Records, you had white musicians
as a support for black artists.
584
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:18,660
We were the leaders in that.
585
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,120
And you have to understand, we're talking
about the 60s.
586
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,120
There were idiots of racists in the 60s.
587
00:38:26,121 --> 00:38:31,440
White racists that hate to even look at
blacks walking on the same street with
588
00:38:31,441 --> 00:38:33,540
whites, let alone playing in bands with
them.
589
00:38:33,660 --> 00:38:36,109
And then you put them
in a role that's backing
590
00:38:36,110 --> 00:38:37,960
up and supporting
someone that's black.
591
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:39,160
That was revolutionary.
592
00:38:39,580 --> 00:38:41,820
But that's what was happening at Stax
Records.
593
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:49,240
You had guys like Steve Cropper who were
willing to go into that role of support,
594
00:38:49,420 --> 00:38:55,420
and then on concerts, willing to get on
stage and be called all kinds of names.
595
00:38:58,460 --> 00:39:04,700
Steve Cropper was an amazing side man,
but it was what he contributed to the song.
596
00:39:04,980 --> 00:39:11,100
He played the rhythm parts, but he was
clever enough to come up with intros and
597
00:39:11,101 --> 00:39:14,880
different parts, like we did Knock on
Wood.
598
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,360
Eddie Floyd and I were riding at the
Lorraine Motel.
599
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:23,300
And he said, I got a great idea for Stax.
600
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:24,420
I said, okay, what?
601
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,220
And he said, I want to write a song about
superstitions.
602
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:30,360
I said, okay.
603
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,820
Eddie, what do people do for good luck?
604
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,100
And he said, well, they go...
605
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:36,560
That's it.
606
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,780
So we started writing, and we knew we had
it.
607
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,040
We finished the song, and I know I sat
there for a long time trying to come up
608
00:39:45,041 --> 00:39:47,220
with an intro, and I couldn't come up with
one.
609
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,820
The only idea that hit
me, I said, I wonder what
610
00:39:49,821 --> 00:39:52,061
in the midnight hour
would sound like backwards.
611
00:39:52,580 --> 00:39:56,780
And I don't know how I came up with the
original of In the Midnight Hour,
612
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,380
but it started on a D chord.
613
00:40:11,140 --> 00:40:13,980
So it's the same walk, just in reverse.
614
00:40:14,260 --> 00:40:15,260
So it...
615
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,260
I don't want to lose...
616
00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:23,500
And that was Knock on Wood.
617
00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:33,280
I don't want to lose This
good thing That I got If I do I
618
00:40:33,281 --> 00:40:43,860
will surely Surely lose a lot
Cause your love Is better Your
619
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,912
love is frightening I
better knock On wood I
620
00:40:56,913 --> 00:41:00,560
said, do you want to
learn how to play guitar?
621
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,460
All guitars have the same dots on them.
622
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,000
It's a scale thing, I guess.
623
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:06,440
I don't know.
624
00:41:06,740 --> 00:41:08,420
I said, just follow the dots.
625
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:10,380
And you can write hit songs.
626
00:41:12,620 --> 00:41:13,840
It doesn't matter.
627
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,640
Steve Cropper not only played on hit
songs, he co-wrote them.
628
00:41:24,980 --> 00:41:28,320
Knock on Wood, In the Midnight Hour,
and many more.
629
00:41:29,380 --> 00:41:34,360
He was a songwriter, a session man,
a producer, and a sideman.
630
00:41:34,580 --> 00:41:35,860
All rolled into one.
631
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:47,880
So, when wannabe soul star Otis Redding
turned up at Stax in 1964, Steve and Stax
632
00:41:47,881 --> 00:41:50,780
owner Jim Stewart just knew they had
someone special.
633
00:41:54,340 --> 00:41:57,160
Al Jackson, the drummer in
Booker T and EMG's, came to
634
00:41:57,220 --> 00:41:59,440
me and he said, you know
that guy, that big tall guy?
635
00:41:59,520 --> 00:41:59,960
And I said, yeah.
636
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,780
He said, he has been bugging me to death
for somebody to listen to him sing.
637
00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:06,340
I said, yeah, okay.
638
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:07,660
Bring him down to the piano.
639
00:42:08,060 --> 00:42:10,260
And this guy comes up, and I said,
okay.
640
00:42:10,460 --> 00:42:11,660
Let the piano play something.
641
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,560
He said, well, I don't play anything.
642
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:15,896
And I said, well, I don't either.
643
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,340
He said, can you play me some of them
church quads?
644
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:20,920
Quads instead of chords.
645
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:22,280
Church quads.
646
00:42:22,580 --> 00:42:24,460
And he starts singing These Arms Are Mine.
647
00:42:25,700 --> 00:42:28,720
These arms are mine.
648
00:42:35,170 --> 00:42:36,250
And I said, stop.
649
00:42:36,370 --> 00:42:36,750
Hold it.
650
00:42:36,751 --> 00:42:38,710
He said, what, you don't like it?
651
00:42:38,750 --> 00:42:40,030
And I said, no, I like it great.
652
00:42:40,150 --> 00:42:41,466
I just want Jim Stewart to hear it.
653
00:42:41,490 --> 00:42:42,726
And I went to the control room.
654
00:42:42,750 --> 00:42:45,530
I said, Jim, you got to get out here and
hear this guy sing.
655
00:42:48,190 --> 00:42:50,230
These arms are mine.
656
00:42:52,930 --> 00:42:55,110
They are journeying.
657
00:42:55,670 --> 00:42:57,190
And I'm not lying about this.
658
00:42:57,250 --> 00:42:58,730
The hair on my arm stood up.
659
00:43:00,270 --> 00:43:01,270
Like that.
660
00:43:03,010 --> 00:43:07,150
By my recollection, we had 17 hit singles
in a row with Otis Redding.
661
00:43:07,210 --> 00:43:08,870
He never had what we would call a flop.
662
00:43:12,730 --> 00:43:15,270
Steve, one of the most original guitar
players.
663
00:43:15,410 --> 00:43:21,910
When I heard those first licks on those
Otis Redding records, oh, there's one.
664
00:43:22,170 --> 00:43:23,170
There's one.
665
00:43:28,260 --> 00:43:33,140
Probably the other thing about a Sideman,
and I'll throw this in with Steve Cropper,
666
00:43:33,260 --> 00:43:37,960
is the ability to read a song very
quickly.
667
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,385
There's a sort of contact
here with the piece of music
668
00:43:44,386 --> 00:43:47,300
that you're playing and
to put your own thing on it.
669
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,380
But it's that sympathy for a song which is
the sign of a good Sideman.
670
00:43:56,820 --> 00:43:59,581
Otis Redding's relationship
with Steve was so
671
00:43:59,582 --> 00:44:02,801
great that he wanted his
Sideman on tour with him.
672
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,800
Otis said, you guys have to go on the road
with me.
673
00:44:07,801 --> 00:44:09,001
You have to be my backup band.
674
00:44:09,100 --> 00:44:11,300
That's what made it unique and so special.
675
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,439
The band that played
on the hit records was the
676
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,281
same band that played
on stage with the artists.
677
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:23,160
Same licks by the same people, playing
the same thing with the same feeling.
678
00:44:23,340 --> 00:44:24,160
Never heard of.
679
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,122
Because you have what
you call session players,
680
00:44:27,123 --> 00:44:30,141
and then you have
your touring musicians.
681
00:44:30,580 --> 00:44:31,840
They don't do both.
682
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,260
In our story, Stax is really important.
683
00:44:37,261 --> 00:44:41,889
Here, musicians like Steve
were given, if not star billing,
684
00:44:41,890 --> 00:44:46,060
at least visibility in a way that
was pretty rare before then.
685
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,580
Steve was behind Otis, but crucial to his
success.
686
00:44:52,840 --> 00:45:02,240
Sittin' in the mornin' sun I'll be sittin'
when the evenin' comes Watchin' those
687
00:45:02,241 --> 00:45:10,500
ships roll in Then I'll watch them roll
away again I'll just go sittin' on the
688
00:45:10,501 --> 00:45:19,720
dock of the bay Watchin' the tide roll
away Sittin' on the dock of the bay
689
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:34,120
Wastin' time I left my home in Georgia
Headed for the Frisco Bay This was the
690
00:45:34,121 --> 00:45:36,886
last song Steve and Otis
Otis worked on together,
691
00:45:36,887 --> 00:45:39,561
though Otis never
heard the final track.
692
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,560
He was killed in a plane crash.
693
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,800
He was just 26 years old.
694
00:45:47,060 --> 00:45:49,200
The role I had with Otis...
695
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,560
We partied together, we'd go to clubs
together, we'd do different things.
696
00:46:02,140 --> 00:46:04,174
Otis calls himself a
backwoods country boy,
697
00:46:04,175 --> 00:46:07,620
but it was something
that was extremely magic.
698
00:46:13,650 --> 00:46:15,110
There'll never be another one.
699
00:46:24,710 --> 00:46:29,250
Steve's relationship with Otis was kind of
special, and his reputation was sealed.
700
00:46:30,070 --> 00:46:32,560
He would go on to work
with everyone from Rod
701
00:46:32,561 --> 00:46:35,991
Stewart, to Eric Clapton,
to the Blues Brothers.
702
00:46:37,710 --> 00:46:40,750
And as a sideman, that's what you need.
703
00:46:40,930 --> 00:46:41,930
A reputation.
704
00:46:42,610 --> 00:46:45,750
Because the artists you work with don't
always have work for you.
705
00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:49,330
But if you are lucky, someone else might.
706
00:46:51,810 --> 00:46:55,190
And my luck was certainly in when I got a
call in 1980.
707
00:46:57,630 --> 00:47:03,830
So I hadn't seen David Bowie since 76,
and I got a phone call from the producer,
708
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:09,030
Jack Douglas, and he said, oh,
I got decisions for Slicky, and who is it?
709
00:47:09,070 --> 00:47:10,070
I can't tell you.
710
00:47:11,310 --> 00:47:14,350
But after three or four days, I kind of
figured it out.
711
00:47:14,930 --> 00:47:16,310
It was John Lennon.
712
00:47:20,030 --> 00:47:21,210
I was a little nervous.
713
00:47:21,330 --> 00:47:22,110
I don't get nervous.
714
00:47:22,290 --> 00:47:23,450
That one made me nervous.
715
00:47:24,290 --> 00:47:29,390
John had certain session guides that he
had used, and John said, well,
716
00:47:29,530 --> 00:47:31,010
I need a wild card in here.
717
00:47:31,090 --> 00:47:33,540
I need a street player
that can't read, that's
718
00:47:33,541 --> 00:47:35,750
just like me, irreverent
and does what he wants.
719
00:47:36,150 --> 00:47:37,270
That's how I got the gig.
720
00:47:41,310 --> 00:47:44,260
It was not a challenge
working with John at all,
721
00:47:44,261 --> 00:47:47,011
because he left me alone
to do what I wanted to do.
722
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,300
I was really ecstatic.
723
00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:06,720
It was a really good time in my career.
724
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:07,960
It really was.
725
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:09,620
And not just my career, my life.
726
00:48:11,380 --> 00:48:12,420
I loved it.
727
00:48:12,540 --> 00:48:13,820
John just let me loose.
728
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,600
When I'm with one of the so-called stars,
I feel like a peer.
729
00:48:32,780 --> 00:48:35,280
You know, that's the way I'm treated.
730
00:48:35,340 --> 00:48:36,440
I'm treated like a peer.
731
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:45,260
I was really lucky to work with both David
and John in a period that I now see as the
732
00:48:45,261 --> 00:48:49,280
heyday for our sidies, the 70s and the
80s.
733
00:48:50,180 --> 00:48:53,745
At this time, there were
superstar solo artists who
734
00:48:53,746 --> 00:48:56,700
needed sidemen and
respected the role they played.
735
00:48:56,900 --> 00:49:02,200
And if you were a sideman or a woman
during this golden age, you could play not
736
00:49:02,201 --> 00:49:04,818
just guitar, but were a
multi -instrumentalist,
737
00:49:04,819 --> 00:49:07,061
then you were going
to get a lot of gigs.
738
00:49:08,340 --> 00:49:13,631
Our percussion and vocals
and saxophone, keyboards,
739
00:49:13,651 --> 00:49:18,020
harmonica, you name it, she
plays it out of Gary, Indiana.
740
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:20,720
That's Professor Crystal Tagliaferro.
741
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:22,880
Crystal's always there.
742
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:23,760
She's total professional.
743
00:49:23,761 --> 00:49:25,840
When we're on stage, she delivers.
744
00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:27,900
She's a show unto herself.
745
00:49:28,740 --> 00:49:32,420
I can always rely on her to come through,
no matter what we're doing.
746
00:49:32,620 --> 00:49:36,900
And that's a great thing to be able to
rely on.
747
00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:40,620
I never have to worry about what she's
going to do or how she does it.
748
00:49:49,420 --> 00:49:50,920
I've never wanted to be a star.
749
00:49:51,060 --> 00:49:52,160
Not even when I was a kid.
750
00:49:52,300 --> 00:49:53,700
I didn't even know what a star was.
751
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,380
This whole thing chose me.
752
00:49:55,660 --> 00:50:01,080
I thought I would be married with five
kids, maybe a accountant or something.
753
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,500
Seriously, I mean...
754
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,600
But, you know, I'm glad it turned out this
way.
755
00:50:13,820 --> 00:50:15,020
Best time of my life.
756
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:16,560
Who knew?
757
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,740
Crystal hooked up with Billy in the 80s,
having worked with some of the biggest
758
00:50:30,741 --> 00:50:35,641
names of the day, including John Mellencamp,
Joe Cocker, and Bruce Springsteen.
759
00:50:39,670 --> 00:50:43,310
She went from the keyboard, and then she
picked up the saxophone.
760
00:50:43,790 --> 00:50:49,970
And, you know, it's kind of like,
wait, she's gorgeous, and she's grounded.
761
00:50:51,790 --> 00:50:52,910
She's talented.
762
00:50:53,310 --> 00:50:55,670
She's got great stage presence.
763
00:50:55,710 --> 00:50:59,275
That is, I think, how
Crystal is still in this
764
00:50:59,276 --> 00:51:03,211
business, because
she's an asset to anybody.
765
00:51:06,970 --> 00:51:10,153
We started working
together and right away, I
766
00:51:10,154 --> 00:51:12,650
said, Oh, this woman
knows what she's doing.
767
00:51:12,830 --> 00:51:16,430
She was going to help us arrange
harmonies, play percussion.
768
00:51:17,870 --> 00:51:19,670
I didn't know if it was going to be
permanent.
769
00:51:19,810 --> 00:51:21,110
I thought it might be temporary.
770
00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:22,270
It was up to her.
771
00:51:22,350 --> 00:51:23,350
Hey!
772
00:51:24,790 --> 00:51:26,690
You feel like a girl.
773
00:51:26,691 --> 00:51:28,870
You feel like a girl.
774
00:51:28,871 --> 00:51:33,126
Today women's societies are
part of the show, but it's easy
775
00:51:33,127 --> 00:51:36,510
to forget that back in the 80s
this was all about the guys.
776
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:43,510
A woman coming to the band was different.
777
00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:46,290
A couple flags went up, you know.
778
00:51:47,930 --> 00:51:50,070
But I knew that was going to happen.
779
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:56,570
I was expecting it to be the sexy one.
780
00:51:56,690 --> 00:51:57,330
Thank you, Billy.
781
00:51:57,331 --> 00:51:59,786
I don't think he purposely
meant for it to happen, it
782
00:51:59,846 --> 00:52:03,030
just happened to be that
way, and I'm happy I was there.
783
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,060
I mean, I want to hear a guy say,
hey, you're sexy.
784
00:52:13,220 --> 00:52:14,740
I think, hey, thank you.
785
00:52:15,140 --> 00:52:17,100
You know, I mean, it makes me feel good.
786
00:52:22,010 --> 00:52:25,510
Yes, there are benefits to being a sexy
side woman.
787
00:52:27,430 --> 00:52:28,430
Lots of benefits.
788
00:52:29,250 --> 00:52:31,610
Guys like sexy, hot girls.
789
00:52:31,710 --> 00:52:32,730
I mean, you're popular.
790
00:52:32,930 --> 00:52:34,570
You know, you get a lot of recognition.
791
00:52:39,070 --> 00:52:40,630
And I got a lot of recognition.
792
00:52:41,410 --> 00:52:43,130
And that's probably why I got a lot of
gigs.
793
00:52:45,650 --> 00:52:50,030
I didn't notice that there was any issues
with her being a woman.
794
00:52:50,190 --> 00:52:51,770
I mean, she was a good musician.
795
00:52:52,150 --> 00:52:53,572
So right away, all
the people that I was
796
00:52:53,573 --> 00:52:56,731
working with at the
time had respect for her.
797
00:52:57,370 --> 00:53:00,690
And that's really what it, I think,
what it came down to, was just,
798
00:53:00,770 --> 00:53:05,110
she's a good musician, and so you better
hold your own, you know.
799
00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:10,270
Being one of the guys, but not a guy.
800
00:53:10,810 --> 00:53:11,810
Doing the hang.
801
00:53:13,110 --> 00:53:15,630
When they say, okay, you're one of the
fellas.
802
00:53:16,570 --> 00:53:17,570
You can hang.
803
00:53:18,550 --> 00:53:19,550
That's a compliment.
804
00:53:20,590 --> 00:53:22,498
That means they're
accepting you as one of the
805
00:53:22,499 --> 00:53:24,330
fellas, and they still
respect you as a woman.
806
00:53:24,670 --> 00:53:28,050
Now, when I first came in, now,
that was the first time, I guess,
807
00:53:28,070 --> 00:53:30,650
Billy worked with a female, which was
interesting.
808
00:53:32,190 --> 00:53:33,850
He did very well, by the way.
809
00:53:34,490 --> 00:53:35,490
He did good.
810
00:53:35,530 --> 00:53:35,970
He did good.
811
00:53:35,971 --> 00:53:37,230
The guys did good, too.
812
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:49,670
After 28 years, Crystal still plays with
Billy's touring band.
813
00:53:49,970 --> 00:53:53,650
But at the end of the day, it doesn't
matter how long you're with the star.
814
00:53:53,870 --> 00:53:58,830
When the tour is over, for most of us
Sideys, it's a case of, what happens now?
815
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,380
As a Sideman, I live like a king.
816
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:11,920
I'm treated like a king.
817
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,100
I don't have to do anything but play
music.
818
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:16,000
It's great.
819
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:17,160
It's Disneyland.
820
00:54:17,660 --> 00:54:19,840
I get to do what I want to do every day.
821
00:54:20,660 --> 00:54:22,360
Nobody questions what I do.
822
00:54:22,460 --> 00:54:23,860
All my needs are taken care of.
823
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,400
Then, said tour is over.
824
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:34,300
Said Sideman goes home, and said Sideman
sits there waiting for the phone to ring.
825
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,300
Which is okay at the very beginning,
because there's some money left.
826
00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:41,460
But this money gets smaller and smaller
and smaller.
827
00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:43,160
And nobody's calling.
828
00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:46,820
And you're going, why are they not
calling?
829
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,280
Is it possible to hit you up again and be
a big pain in the ass?
830
00:54:51,420 --> 00:54:54,631
And you'll come up with
whatever reasons you come
831
00:54:54,711 --> 00:54:57,420
up with, which may be
true, maybe not be true.
832
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:03,640
But I think the more known you are,
and the more visible you are as a Sideman
833
00:55:03,641 --> 00:55:08,360
to your frontman, the less approachable
you are.
834
00:55:10,020 --> 00:55:11,500
I'll sit out here all year.
835
00:55:13,180 --> 00:55:16,220
The phone doesn't ring, because they think
you're owned.
836
00:55:16,221 --> 00:55:18,000
And in a way, you are.
837
00:55:18,060 --> 00:55:19,060
What are we doing here?
838
00:55:20,620 --> 00:55:24,960
They're thinking, you know, we're rolling
in money, and we're buying houses,
839
00:55:25,020 --> 00:55:26,680
and we're working,
and we're on retainer,
840
00:55:26,681 --> 00:55:28,500
and any minute we're
going to be doing this.
841
00:55:28,620 --> 00:55:30,520
And that's just not the truth.
842
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,960
The truth was that in between, there
would be times when years would go by.
843
00:55:35,740 --> 00:55:37,940
This is one of them good-ass do-nothing
days.
844
00:55:38,100 --> 00:55:39,100
I like this.
845
00:55:42,510 --> 00:55:44,550
I ain't going to do nothing today after
you guys go.
846
00:55:52,690 --> 00:55:56,820
You know what?
847
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:58,080
It's a double-edged sword.
848
00:55:58,540 --> 00:56:01,520
You're playing with the world's greatest
rock and roll band.
849
00:56:01,700 --> 00:56:06,280
And when it's over, it's going to be hard
to get another gig, because first of all,
850
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,340
people, for some reason, they think that
you're part of the band.
851
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,060
I'm a gun for hire.
852
00:56:11,540 --> 00:56:13,640
I wish I made that kind of money.
853
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:15,720
I wish I made Rolling Stone money.
854
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:17,480
But that ain't the case.
855
00:56:20,020 --> 00:56:24,680
I don't make that much money where I can
take a vacation or take a break.
856
00:56:25,260 --> 00:56:29,520
I've tried, you know, taking a break after
a Rolling Stone tour.
857
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:35,980
And when that money got low, trying to
find another gig, super hard.
858
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:47,460
It's not like you can just call and say,
hey, hey.
859
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,980
I'm Bernard Fowler, and I want a tour now.
860
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:52,540
Shit don't happen like that.
861
00:56:54,220 --> 00:56:59,000
And like I said, I've done that before,
and it bit me in the ass.
862
00:57:01,140 --> 00:57:05,080
I might take a few weeks or so,
but I'm back at it.
863
00:57:07,140 --> 00:57:11,260
I've been blessed that every time the
Stones have gone out, I've gone out.
864
00:57:12,340 --> 00:57:16,700
But it's really funny because like
sometimes, you know, I'd get telephone
865
00:57:16,701 --> 00:57:18,734
calls from friends or
fans, and they're like,
866
00:57:18,735 --> 00:57:20,500
hey, man, I hear the
Stones are going out.
867
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:21,380
Why don't you go with them?
868
00:57:21,460 --> 00:57:23,040
I'm like, I didn't hear anything.
869
00:57:26,460 --> 00:57:29,227
And when that happens,
it kind of with you a bit
870
00:57:29,228 --> 00:57:32,001
because you're not even
sure if you're even going.
871
00:57:34,140 --> 00:57:36,980
That's part of being a Sideman,
I think, not being sure.
872
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:43,080
But Brother B has nothing to worry about
on that.
873
00:57:43,081 --> 00:57:45,800
It's whether the Stones will still be
around.
874
00:57:46,020 --> 00:57:50,100
It's not whether he'll be with us for
sure, you know.
875
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,340
It's up to him, as long as he wants it.
876
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:56,820
Yeah, he'll be with us till the end.
877
00:57:57,020 --> 00:57:58,620
Then we call him a Rolling Stone.
878
00:57:59,380 --> 00:58:02,120
When we all retire, he can become a...
879
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:06,660
We'll give him a little badge with,
I am finally in there.
880
00:58:09,420 --> 00:58:13,060
Well, as far as I'm concerned,
he is officially a Rolling Stone.
881
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:17,060
So, by now, Brother B will rock on you.
882
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:25,540
I still do see myself as a Sideman with
the Rolling Stones.
883
00:58:25,900 --> 00:58:28,360
By no means am I a Rolling Stone.
884
00:58:30,020 --> 00:58:31,840
And nor will I ever be.
885
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:38,900
Would the Rolling Stones suffer without
me?
886
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:41,980
They can continue.
887
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:45,700
But they'd miss me.
888
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,240
This is something special for you.
889
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:56,400
Bernard's kind of lucky.
890
00:58:56,660 --> 00:59:00,820
Despite some insecurity, he does have a
long-term gig with the Stones.
891
00:59:01,700 --> 00:59:04,660
I worked with David on and off for 40
years.
892
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,040
But the work was by no means constant.
893
00:59:07,580 --> 00:59:10,120
I never really knew what was around the
corner.
894
00:59:11,620 --> 00:59:15,494
He sacked me once, but then
I was called back every time
895
00:59:15,495 --> 00:59:19,980
one of the guitar players
vaporized or quit or whatever.
896
00:59:20,260 --> 00:59:21,340
I got the phone call.
897
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,200
And people say, don't that make you feel
used?
898
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:24,500
No.
899
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,260
He was doing what he needed to do at a
time.
900
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,960
I took the gig, which meant I did what I
needed to do at a time.
901
00:59:32,060 --> 00:59:35,380
So it was, you know, one hand washed the
other.
902
00:59:36,100 --> 00:59:37,140
Yeah, boy.
903
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,474
But being sacked, let
go, replaced, whatever
904
00:59:43,475 --> 00:59:46,521
you want to call it,
when it happens, it hurts.
905
00:59:46,660 --> 00:59:48,700
And it really does piss you off.
906
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:57,520
From the moment I was hired to the moment
it all ended, it was nonstop.
907
01:00:04,050 --> 01:00:07,650
So I never felt that it would end until it
ended.
908
01:00:07,651 --> 01:00:11,650
It almost felt like someone kicked the bed
while you were sound asleep.
909
01:00:12,010 --> 01:00:13,650
You're like, what, what, what?
910
01:00:14,070 --> 01:00:18,750
That's kind of how it felt when it ended.
911
01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:22,090
Me and Lisa were fired.
912
01:00:27,210 --> 01:00:33,650
The night that we got fired, I can't say
that Prince thanked us.
913
01:00:33,870 --> 01:00:37,630
I could just feel his feelings just
contradicting each other.
914
01:00:37,631 --> 01:00:40,430
They just jumped themselves within him.
915
01:00:40,850 --> 01:00:41,850
Boo!
916
01:00:42,370 --> 01:00:45,110
I think he was at a crossroads.
917
01:00:45,690 --> 01:00:48,630
I think it was hard for him to say thank
you at that time.
918
01:00:49,490 --> 01:00:52,523
I said, you know, I just got
into this place where I just
919
01:00:52,524 --> 01:00:55,410
need to change it up now,
because I've spread myself too thin.
920
01:00:55,950 --> 01:01:00,490
You guys are your own people, and I need
more of it in my control.
921
01:01:01,490 --> 01:01:05,730
We were blown away by it and understood at
the same time.
922
01:01:06,530 --> 01:01:09,110
That's what it is when you're a side
person.
923
01:01:10,650 --> 01:01:11,690
Everybody's expendable.
924
01:01:14,190 --> 01:01:16,770
Yeah, I felt like my life exploded.
925
01:01:17,110 --> 01:01:21,340
It took me on this
incredible ride, and then
926
01:01:21,341 --> 01:01:24,610
suddenly, you know,
let's not do this anymore.
927
01:01:25,030 --> 01:01:27,890
It was really like a romantic breakup,
you know.
928
01:01:29,110 --> 01:01:35,190
And I think he missed us too, which always
freaked me out when I'd get signs of that,
929
01:01:35,191 --> 01:01:38,270
that he was missing us or wondering where
we were.
930
01:01:38,730 --> 01:01:40,070
It would make me mad.
931
01:01:42,010 --> 01:01:46,090
It was a facade in that Prince was never
going to be a member of a band,
932
01:01:46,350 --> 01:01:50,445
that he was never going
to be as collaborative as,
933
01:01:50,446 --> 01:01:53,050
you know, what it was
that he was putting forward.
934
01:01:53,630 --> 01:01:59,070
I will say that Purple Rain was the most
collaborative period in his career.
935
01:01:59,850 --> 01:02:02,162
After the success of
Purple Rain, you know, there
936
01:02:02,163 --> 01:02:04,250
was no possibility of
collaboration after that.
937
01:02:04,310 --> 01:02:05,170
I mean, at that point, no.
938
01:02:05,190 --> 01:02:07,900
Nobody could ever say
no to him again because he
939
01:02:07,901 --> 01:02:10,491
had shown that he knew
better than everybody else.
940
01:02:12,210 --> 01:02:16,155
Wendy and I were pretty
lost after the breakup
941
01:02:16,156 --> 01:02:19,591
and weren't really sure
what we were going to do.
942
01:02:20,570 --> 01:02:27,610
We rented a house for a couple of weeks and
licked our wounds kind of like together.
943
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:32,830
We commiserated and then we started to
write songs.
944
01:02:36,410 --> 01:02:39,710
People were waiting for us to write,
you know, a Prince track.
945
01:02:39,930 --> 01:02:41,990
But it's not Prince and the Revolution.
946
01:02:42,210 --> 01:02:44,050
It's a different thing.
947
01:02:57,630 --> 01:02:59,790
Now we're not the arm candy.
948
01:03:00,070 --> 01:03:02,790
You know, we can actually be the
centerpiece.
949
01:03:03,530 --> 01:03:04,950
And that was the desire.
950
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:22,360
And then ensued the dynamic of what are
you talking about?
951
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,080
What do you mean, what are you selling?
952
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:27,060
Okay, we understand commerce.
953
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:28,220
We got to sell a product.
954
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:29,800
There's branding, da-da-da-da-da.
955
01:03:30,180 --> 01:03:37,621
But this is where that being a woman in the
music business is sort of like an oxymoron.
956
01:03:47,410 --> 01:03:49,190
That's what the species is.
957
01:03:49,290 --> 01:03:52,170
I don't want to play a part in that game.
958
01:03:52,490 --> 01:03:59,450
But when my twin sister came and sang with
Wendy and Lisa, the marketers loved it.
959
01:04:01,090 --> 01:04:05,010
Because Susanna was, like, hot and sexy.
960
01:04:05,850 --> 01:04:07,150
And, like, woo-hoo!
961
01:04:07,390 --> 01:04:08,730
We can market that!
962
01:04:11,430 --> 01:04:13,650
I thought Wendy and Lisa were great.
963
01:04:13,930 --> 01:04:17,530
But the move from sidey to solo artist is
really a tough one.
964
01:04:27,060 --> 01:04:30,780
We ended up getting, like, dropped
repeatedly on every label.
965
01:04:30,820 --> 01:04:32,920
We'd be signed and dropped and signed and
dropped.
966
01:04:32,980 --> 01:04:33,980
Signed and dropped.
967
01:04:34,100 --> 01:04:36,940
And, you know, because they were just,
like, oh.
968
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:39,000
Well, where's, you know...
969
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,160
I don't know what they wanted.
970
01:04:41,380 --> 01:04:42,620
A little red Corvette.
971
01:04:43,060 --> 01:04:44,900
But that wasn't gonna happen.
972
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,680
With us, it was a more subtle success that
we could play clubs and sell them out.
973
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:55,060
In my estimation, I think that means that
we made it.
974
01:04:56,180 --> 01:04:58,000
And we're able to keep working.
975
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:03,520
I mean, I haven't had to get a job at
Staples or McDonald's or something.
976
01:05:03,660 --> 01:05:04,660
So...
977
01:05:09,460 --> 01:05:12,960
Was it disappointing for me to realize
that I wasn't a star?
978
01:05:13,820 --> 01:05:16,260
I have embarrassment saying it.
979
01:05:16,300 --> 01:05:17,300
Yeah.
980
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:24,520
I wanted to be as important as the artists
that are important to me, to other people.
981
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,480
I wanted to be able to have people listen
to the work that I did.
982
01:05:29,460 --> 01:05:36,560
My idea of being a rock star probably
didn't match what my musical output was.
983
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:53,640
When Wendy and Lisa didn't turn out to be
huge pop stars on their own, they were
984
01:05:53,641 --> 01:05:59,200
able to adjust because of their training,
because of their versatility, and because
985
01:05:59,201 --> 01:06:04,580
of their brand name and the awareness of
Wendy and Lisa, to go on to be hugely in
986
01:06:04,581 --> 01:06:08,316
demand and to play with
folks like Madonna and Joni
987
01:06:08,317 --> 01:06:12,540
Mitchell and Seal, and able
to build a career that way.
988
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,300
It's too busy at that time.
989
01:06:15,301 --> 01:06:16,500
The tempo is too much.
990
01:06:17,180 --> 01:06:24,560
And then from that, springboard into writing
scores, soundtracks, TV shows, films.
991
01:06:27,340 --> 01:06:29,300
It's still, it's not ironic enough.
992
01:06:29,380 --> 01:06:31,160
It feels too, like, anthemic.
993
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:34,451
Wendy and Lisa's contribution
is much like an actor on the
994
01:06:34,452 --> 01:06:38,200
show, and I always treated
them as if they were actors.
995
01:06:38,460 --> 01:06:40,840
With an actor, you don't tell them how to
do a scene.
996
01:06:40,980 --> 01:06:43,040
You don't say, don't give a line reading.
997
01:06:43,041 --> 01:06:48,540
And as much as maybe the studio or network
at times on parts of the music would want
998
01:06:48,541 --> 01:06:53,900
a line reading, a specific kind of music,
I always resisted giving them that note.
999
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,340
So we should be playing something ironic,
not too romantic.
1000
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:02,040
In my experience in working with them,
I don't think we ever had them re-score
1001
01:07:02,041 --> 01:07:04,020
something more than maybe three or four
times.
1002
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:08,040
And I'm talking about 200 episodes of
television.
1003
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:09,320
That's amazing.
1004
01:07:12,100 --> 01:07:13,136
Wendy and Lisa's contribution
to the film industry, Wendy
1005
01:07:13,137 --> 01:07:15,960
and Lisa made it again as
side women, but now in TV.
1006
01:07:16,260 --> 01:07:19,000
They're writing music for some of the
biggest U.S.
1007
01:07:19,020 --> 01:07:19,320
shows.
1008
01:07:19,660 --> 01:07:20,660
That was good.
1009
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:22,640
And they even got an Emmy to prove it.
1010
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:35,023
So to survive when you're not
on the road, us sideys need to
1011
01:07:35,024 --> 01:07:38,460
find other ways to use what
we've got to make a few bucks.
1012
01:07:40,580 --> 01:07:44,320
I don't think that I've been versatile
enough during my career.
1013
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:46,920
What are you, a cop?
1014
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,560
I don't see a uniform on you.
1015
01:07:49,620 --> 01:07:50,700
Sorry, fat ass.
1016
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:56,200
A lot of the other guys, though,
that weren't versatile enough,
1017
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:58,380
disappeared completely off the planet.
1018
01:07:58,640 --> 01:07:59,820
And they ain't coming back.
1019
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:06,600
That's something that really hit me like a
ton of bricks about ten years ago that I'm
1020
01:08:06,601 --> 01:08:11,600
gonna have to sort of spread out here,
but where?
1021
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:15,020
It's got such a natural leather scent.
1022
01:08:15,021 --> 01:08:16,021
It works.
1023
01:08:16,180 --> 01:08:18,220
So I thought, what are my talents?
1024
01:08:18,500 --> 01:08:19,860
What the hell can I do?
1025
01:08:20,340 --> 01:08:24,240
Yeah, I play music, but I also paint and
customize my own clothes.
1026
01:08:24,780 --> 01:08:27,340
So I thought, why don't I do something
with that?
1027
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:28,640
Worth a try?
1028
01:08:28,820 --> 01:08:29,440
This is great.
1029
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:30,800
No?
1030
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:32,040
Extra bullet holes.
1031
01:08:33,260 --> 01:08:35,880
Oh, that's 40 grit sandpaper.
1032
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:38,240
You can make bullet holes that way.
1033
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:40,260
I can trash anything.
1034
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:41,860
I do it anyway.
1035
01:08:41,980 --> 01:08:45,080
Might as well, like, you know,
maybe make money out of it.
1036
01:08:46,260 --> 01:08:48,640
Christian Benner is a New York fashion
designer.
1037
01:08:48,900 --> 01:08:52,276
I really like his style, so I
brought a load of my stuff
1038
01:08:52,277 --> 01:08:54,621
to see if we might be able
to do something together.
1039
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:58,241
And then you take this
shit and you put it in bleach
1040
01:08:58,242 --> 01:09:01,901
and then use a bunch of
rusty nails and... Yeah, yeah.
1041
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:05,940
Shotgun shells and...
Can't play it, but it looks cool.
1042
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:07,600
It's beautiful.
1043
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:13,740
I don't have what he has, and he doesn't
have what I have.
1044
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:15,320
This is gorgeous, though.
1045
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:17,280
I want what he has.
1046
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,240
He wants what I have, which makes for a
great partnership.
1047
01:09:21,660 --> 01:09:22,480
A Christian B.
1048
01:09:22,620 --> 01:09:23,620
original.
1049
01:09:23,900 --> 01:09:25,660
Uh, I did it, though.
1050
01:09:25,940 --> 01:09:26,500
Yeah, I noticed.
1051
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:27,640
What do you think?
1052
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:32,700
I do belts and jackets, but the way I
paint things and the way I do things can
1053
01:09:32,701 --> 01:09:39,000
actually add to his thing, and even some
of my stuff will stand on its own.
1054
01:09:39,480 --> 01:09:41,160
Oh, my God, I did a good job.
1055
01:09:41,161 --> 01:09:42,480
I'm good, thank you.
1056
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:44,560
He's been in business.
1057
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:48,000
He's got the machine to do it,
whereas I don't.
1058
01:09:48,940 --> 01:09:50,520
Therein comes your trade-off.
1059
01:09:51,020 --> 01:09:53,480
He gets my name to help him out a little
bit.
1060
01:09:54,380 --> 01:09:59,380
I get the machine, I get the help,
promotion, all the stuff you need.
1061
01:10:01,260 --> 01:10:03,020
Little managers talk to each other.
1062
01:10:03,100 --> 01:10:04,100
Yeah, they started.
1063
01:10:09,780 --> 01:10:14,080
For me, it's fashion, but all of us ideas
have to find our own way.
1064
01:10:16,480 --> 01:10:18,940
Crystal Talafiero is no shit.
1065
01:10:19,420 --> 01:10:24,340
Professor Crystal Talafiero from Indiana
University when she's not touring.
1066
01:10:25,180 --> 01:10:26,420
Can't see me doing that.
1067
01:10:28,460 --> 01:10:32,480
I think I'm talented in more ways than
just being a musician.
1068
01:10:32,660 --> 01:10:36,120
I think I'm talented, I think,
more so in social skills.
1069
01:10:36,180 --> 01:10:40,144
I think I have good social
skills, which I think should
1070
01:10:40,145 --> 01:10:43,440
be weighed on the same
level as your performance skills.
1071
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:48,140
I mean, you can have a talented person and
you can play 50,000 instruments and have
1072
01:10:48,141 --> 01:10:51,600
zero social skills, and who wants to hang
around with him?
1073
01:10:52,300 --> 01:10:53,420
He can't do the hang.
1074
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:54,920
He's out.
1075
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:01,160
Crystal teaches up-and-coming musicians.
1076
01:11:01,940 --> 01:11:02,940
Who knows?
1077
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:05,080
Maybe the next generation of sideys.
1078
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:06,280
Happy, happy.
1079
01:11:06,540 --> 01:11:07,620
Wind your body.
1080
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:08,720
Big with your body.
1081
01:11:08,780 --> 01:11:09,500
I see it slip, slide.
1082
01:11:09,580 --> 01:11:10,720
Come on and do it hardy.
1083
01:11:10,721 --> 01:11:14,540
I am teaching how to get the job,
how to keep the job, performance,
1084
01:11:14,980 --> 01:11:17,940
stage performance, delivery, spontaneity.
1085
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,700
I'm teaching basically how to survive.
1086
01:11:21,440 --> 01:11:24,240
I want you to use those eyes, those big,
terrific eyes you have.
1087
01:11:24,940 --> 01:11:25,480
Yoo!
1088
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,060
You turn my life...
1089
01:11:28,061 --> 01:11:34,000
All the opportunities here for my students
doing what I do as a sideman, yes,
1090
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,020
they are there, but
it's a little more difficult
1091
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:39,020
now from the, you
know, younger generation.
1092
01:11:39,300 --> 01:11:40,700
They're all talented, great musicians.
1093
01:11:40,701 --> 01:11:41,701
Of course.
1094
01:11:41,740 --> 01:11:44,020
But I think they've been watered down.
1095
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:46,520
There's no more identities.
1096
01:11:47,060 --> 01:11:49,200
Only the star is allowed to have an
identity.
1097
01:11:51,020 --> 01:11:54,480
Maybe I should rethink and start grooming
solo artists instead.
1098
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:05,440
The music business today, hell,
it's like another world.
1099
01:12:08,700 --> 01:12:13,020
Thankfully, there are still some big
artists out there that need great sidemen,
1100
01:12:13,180 --> 01:12:15,720
or in the case of Beyoncé, side women.
1101
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:21,429
And when Beyoncé toured the
Beyoncé Experience in 07, she
1102
01:12:21,430 --> 01:12:24,340
worked with some of the best
side women in the business.
1103
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:29,680
There's anywhere from 20 to 30 people on
stage with Beyoncé at any given point.
1104
01:12:30,020 --> 01:12:31,120
I'm seeing everything.
1105
01:12:31,340 --> 01:12:33,461
I'm seeing people
losing their minds, going
1106
01:12:33,462 --> 01:12:36,301
crazy, seeing their
icon for the first time.
1107
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:40,100
I'm seeing a big party, honestly,
in the Beyoncé concerts.
1108
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:42,700
I wish everyone had the opportunity to get
that point of view.
1109
01:12:54,170 --> 01:12:56,270
Crystal Ravel Torres is extraordinary.
1110
01:12:56,970 --> 01:12:59,281
She's a multi-instrumentalist
who started
1111
01:12:59,282 --> 01:13:02,931
working with Beyoncé
in 07 as a trumpet player.
1112
01:13:05,410 --> 01:13:09,190
When we first began, much of Beyoncé's
repertoire didn't have horn parts.
1113
01:13:12,530 --> 01:13:17,730
We had a lot of creative freedom,
you know, as long as it wasn't stepping on
1114
01:13:17,731 --> 01:13:19,990
the melody or getting in the way of what
was happening.
1115
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:27,120
We had creative license to kind of add
what we wanted.
1116
01:13:28,460 --> 01:13:30,220
She asked me to do a solo.
1117
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:31,640
She didn't, she was very open.
1118
01:13:31,820 --> 01:13:34,180
She didn't say specifically what to play.
1119
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:41,300
There were 40,000 people staring at me,
and Beyoncé said, Give it to mama!
1120
01:13:43,060 --> 01:13:44,500
And there's my moment.
1121
01:14:09,300 --> 01:14:11,707
She suggested that I do
something really dramatic
1122
01:14:11,708 --> 01:14:14,160
and put the horn up,
you know, back like this.
1123
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:15,240
That's when I solo.
1124
01:14:22,100 --> 01:14:24,920
Sometimes it came out, sometimes it
didn't, because it's really hard to play a
1125
01:14:24,921 --> 01:14:27,340
trumpet in heels, you know, doing a
backbend.
1126
01:14:30,380 --> 01:14:32,140
I had done maybe five world tours.
1127
01:14:32,380 --> 01:14:36,084
But you have to understand,
the story was obviously about
1128
01:14:36,085 --> 01:14:39,000
Beyoncé, so you have your
choice to take it or leave it.
1129
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:45,491
The quintessential modern
sideman or musician has to
1130
01:14:45,492 --> 01:14:49,840
be open to all of the many
places that music leads you.
1131
01:14:55,070 --> 01:14:59,970
After being part of Beyoncé's touring band
for several years, the day came when
1132
01:14:59,971 --> 01:15:03,590
Crystal didn't get the call to join
Beyoncé's 2012 tour.
1133
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:11,180
I actually didn't get the call after all
those years.
1134
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:11,900
It hurt.
1135
01:15:12,060 --> 01:15:13,060
It definitely hurt.
1136
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:15,434
Sometimes you are
a part of an artist's
1137
01:15:15,435 --> 01:15:17,600
vision, you know, and
that's a beautiful thing.
1138
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:18,960
And sometimes you're not.
1139
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:23,776
And I think how every musician
deals with those, setbacks,
1140
01:15:23,777 --> 01:15:27,260
really determines their fate
and their success and their future.
1141
01:15:30,180 --> 01:15:34,920
You have to be aware that this is a
business and you're working with a star,
1142
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:37,804
so it's not that they don't
want you to promote yourself,
1143
01:15:37,904 --> 01:15:40,780
but you just, you are
working for a bigger brand.
1144
01:15:40,980 --> 01:15:43,580
And sometimes it's about that brand first.
1145
01:15:43,740 --> 01:15:46,245
This needs to be
protected, so you have to find
1146
01:15:46,246 --> 01:15:49,301
how you fit and how
they can work together.
1147
01:15:51,420 --> 01:15:54,000
Nowadays much more so than in the past.
1148
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,960
You have to be able to switch gears
quickly.
1149
01:15:58,440 --> 01:16:01,642
And that would be the time
when I developed my songwriting
1150
01:16:01,643 --> 01:16:04,300
and production skills and
got into that and met Lupe.
1151
01:16:09,860 --> 01:16:12,355
Lupe Fiasco is a
Grammy award-winning rap
1152
01:16:12,356 --> 01:16:16,221
artist who is always
looking out for new talent.
1153
01:16:17,420 --> 01:16:18,420
Crystal's name kept.
1154
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:19,080
Popping up.
1155
01:16:19,260 --> 01:16:20,760
I was like, who's this Crystal on?
1156
01:16:22,100 --> 01:16:25,041
And then it was like, hey
Crystal, would you mind
1157
01:16:25,081 --> 01:16:29,140
coming in and, you know,
playing on certain records?
1158
01:16:30,660 --> 01:16:35,143
It's so cool to be able to have
a working relationship with
1159
01:16:35,144 --> 01:16:39,000
somebody who operates at an
internationally renowned level.
1160
01:16:41,500 --> 01:16:45,220
So I show up not really knowing what to
expect and he said, just do your thing.
1161
01:16:45,900 --> 01:16:50,520
And so I went into the live room and just,
put in a Harmon Mute, and he immediately
1162
01:16:50,521 --> 01:16:53,980
responded to that sound, that Miles Davis
kind of blue type of sound.
1163
01:16:59,410 --> 01:17:01,370
It's like I'm in a studio with Miles
Davis, right?
1164
01:17:01,570 --> 01:17:04,066
To have somebody at a
high caliber, being able
1165
01:17:04,067 --> 01:17:05,950
to be like, hey, can
you play it like this?
1166
01:17:06,130 --> 01:17:07,506
And then they'll play it like that.
1167
01:17:07,530 --> 01:17:08,946
And then be like, oh, that was amazing.
1168
01:17:08,970 --> 01:17:10,030
Now, can you play it like this?
1169
01:17:10,031 --> 01:17:11,286
I'm like, yeah, I can play it like that.
1170
01:17:11,310 --> 01:17:12,190
It's like, oh, that was amazing.
1171
01:17:12,290 --> 01:17:12,730
Oh, my God.
1172
01:17:12,970 --> 01:17:13,970
Like, can you just play?
1173
01:17:14,010 --> 01:17:17,130
They all rapidly click until they
disappear Clicking gradually quickens
1174
01:17:17,131 --> 01:17:24,610
until they disappear By the end of that
session, the song just became this moody,
1175
01:17:24,790 --> 01:17:28,250
jazzy, organic hip-hop mix.
1176
01:17:35,650 --> 01:17:41,410
It graduated into my next album,
where it was like, it was a no-brainer.
1177
01:17:41,570 --> 01:17:43,250
It was like, hey, I'm going to the studio.
1178
01:17:43,390 --> 01:17:44,390
I need Crystal.
1179
01:17:46,270 --> 01:17:49,269
I feel that the best
artists understand that
1180
01:17:49,270 --> 01:17:51,950
we are all working in
service to the music.
1181
01:17:52,210 --> 01:17:54,930
And while everyone has
their roles at the end of
1182
01:17:54,931 --> 01:17:58,210
the day, the music is
what brings people to them.
1183
01:18:11,660 --> 01:18:14,780
There is clearly a place for the next
generation of societies.
1184
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:18,400
But what about those of us who have been
around the block a few times?
1185
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:24,400
As far as the future goes for me as a
sideman, I would say that it looks bleak.
1186
01:18:25,860 --> 01:18:29,540
In 2016, my main man, David Bowie,
passed away.
1187
01:18:29,820 --> 01:18:31,180
That changed everything.
1188
01:18:37,210 --> 01:18:40,190
Ah, that's where the lift-off part comes
in, isn't it?
1189
01:18:41,710 --> 01:18:48,290
Which is kind of what I felt happened when
David passed.
1190
01:18:48,650 --> 01:18:50,190
You know, he lifted off.
1191
01:18:58,410 --> 01:19:04,190
David comes into my head every day since
spring of 1974.
1192
01:19:04,810 --> 01:19:10,550
When you're entrenched with somebody that
long, it just does not go away.
1193
01:19:12,250 --> 01:19:19,950
David meant a lot of things to me because
he is the first person in my career that I
1194
01:19:19,951 --> 01:19:25,350
walked onto a stage with 20,000 people and
had a gold record within six months.
1195
01:19:25,790 --> 01:19:27,950
And how much I learned from him.
1196
01:19:27,951 --> 01:19:30,530
I was always his guitar player.
1197
01:19:31,150 --> 01:19:33,773
Now I'm Earl Slick, the
guitar player that used
1198
01:19:33,774 --> 01:19:37,211
to work with David
Bowie when he was alive.
1199
01:19:39,490 --> 01:19:42,110
With David gone, it's going to be tough.
1200
01:19:45,150 --> 01:19:49,130
A lot of the guys I knew that were hiring
sidemen are now retiring.
1201
01:19:49,470 --> 01:19:51,510
Which is kind of scary, but who knows?
1202
01:19:52,210 --> 01:19:53,210
Maybe liberating.
1203
01:20:01,220 --> 01:20:03,480
Bernard is doing more of his own thing.
1204
01:20:03,481 --> 01:20:05,420
Alongside his work with the Stones.
1205
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:07,120
And that's got to be good.
1206
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:16,320
Hopefully more people will see that I am
only a sideman for the Rolling Stones.
1207
01:20:16,780 --> 01:20:21,540
When the Stones ain't rolling,
Bernard's out shaking that money maker.
1208
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:25,640
The future is I see myself as a solo
artist.
1209
01:20:33,480 --> 01:20:34,740
I'll be shaking her hair.
1210
01:20:38,140 --> 01:20:40,260
You know, it's all independent.
1211
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:41,520
I'm doing it myself.
1212
01:20:42,020 --> 01:20:44,000
There's no machine behind it.
1213
01:20:44,140 --> 01:20:46,160
And it's hard to get stuff heard.
1214
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:50,700
Say goodbye to shy.
1215
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:53,920
Groove is gonna tell you why.
1216
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:57,540
I don't think he's happy as a solo artist
by being with the Rolling Stones.
1217
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,540
But it's very hard to succeed as anything
in show business.
1218
01:21:01,541 --> 01:21:05,100
There's thousands of groups looking to
make one single.
1219
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:08,000
I mean, it's not an easy business to be
in.
1220
01:21:12,860 --> 01:21:15,060
Bernard loves to step out of the shadow.
1221
01:21:15,340 --> 01:21:16,480
He loves to go and project.
1222
01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:19,340
You know, he'll make people feel good.
1223
01:21:19,940 --> 01:21:22,280
I think that's the reward for Bernard.
1224
01:21:26,420 --> 01:21:31,240
If I knew how to make my solo stuff...
1225
01:21:32,580 --> 01:21:38,940
break big enough for me to go out and
perform it all the time, I would.
1226
01:21:40,940 --> 01:21:41,940
It's a great dog.
1227
01:21:42,300 --> 01:21:45,400
But it's still less than two years old,
so it's still a puppy.
1228
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:49,320
Steve Cropper, as ever, prefers to be in
the shadows.
1229
01:21:49,620 --> 01:21:53,700
And he can afford to, having written some
of the biggest hits of all time.
1230
01:21:53,980 --> 01:22:00,940
You can tell it hasn't hung it yet,
but this is for 10 million plays from BMI.
1231
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:03,300
Still in the package they gave it to me.
1232
01:22:03,500 --> 01:22:05,580
I've always wanted to just be the band
member.
1233
01:22:05,780 --> 01:22:11,480
I would never want to be that famous where
24-7 somebody's trying to get to you.
1234
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:19,521
And I pride myself in the fact that I, for
years, was able to stay under the radar.
1235
01:22:19,660 --> 01:22:22,200
Because I get to play behind singers that
are great.
1236
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:25,180
They entertain, they dance, they do it
all.
1237
01:22:25,380 --> 01:22:27,180
I'm back there just grooving, having a
ball.
1238
01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:34,680
And as long as there are great singers,
there are still going to be sidemen.
1239
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:38,700
But the job may change a bit.
1240
01:22:40,700 --> 01:22:42,880
My job has changed in the last 30 years.
1241
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:49,961
I'm not doing as much featuring spots,
moving over for a new person to come in now.
1242
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:53,293
And we do that, you
know, to make room for
1243
01:22:53,294 --> 01:22:56,100
other artists to be
featured that are coming in.
1244
01:22:56,620 --> 01:22:58,120
And that's fine.
1245
01:22:58,380 --> 01:22:59,540
That's natural progression.
1246
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:03,120
You on that one, Crystal?
1247
01:23:03,440 --> 01:23:05,460
I'm just loving the place that I'm in.
1248
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:08,240
I think I've just gotten more,
I guess, seasoned.
1249
01:23:08,740 --> 01:23:09,740
You know?
1250
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:11,200
What do you want to call it?
1251
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:12,600
Seasoned.
1252
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:19,300
Today, one avenue for us sideys is to
revisit our past.
1253
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:22,900
Which, to be honest, is a bit of a double
-edged sword.
1254
01:23:24,220 --> 01:23:26,988
Prince's Revolution
have recently reformed to
1255
01:23:26,989 --> 01:23:29,600
play a few gigs to
celebrate the life of Prince.
1256
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:30,880
Mommy, what is it?
1257
01:23:31,580 --> 01:23:34,040
The fans will always want it.
1258
01:23:34,140 --> 01:23:37,291
They're going to want the
Revolution to go out there
1259
01:23:37,292 --> 01:23:40,480
because that keeps
Prince alive for them, right?
1260
01:23:43,460 --> 01:23:44,720
Is this in the A?
1261
01:23:44,980 --> 01:23:45,980
It's to D.
1262
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:47,160
A to D.
1263
01:23:47,820 --> 01:23:54,680
But how could this not be a slight midlife
crisis and want to sort of get back the
1264
01:23:54,681 --> 01:23:57,860
taste of your own greatness from that
moment?
1265
01:23:59,900 --> 01:24:00,500
But...
1266
01:24:00,501 --> 01:24:05,106
What I believe we're trying
to do as a band is to try
1267
01:24:05,107 --> 01:24:10,380
and figure out is there a
life to it or is it just that?
1268
01:24:14,260 --> 01:24:17,511
I'm not going to be
stupid if what ends up
1269
01:24:17,512 --> 01:24:21,801
happening is a midlife
crisis is leading the pack.
1270
01:24:22,220 --> 01:24:24,560
If that is what's driving this...
1271
01:24:25,460 --> 01:24:26,500
Bye, folks.
1272
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:27,640
I'm out.
1273
01:24:28,980 --> 01:24:30,660
I've always hated anything on that D.
1274
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:34,340
Unless we can make it huge, you know?
1275
01:24:34,460 --> 01:24:35,460
Like, wah!
1276
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:41,601
I, too, have been revisiting my past and it
has thrown my whole life into perspective.
1277
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:46,500
For me, David Bowie was always there,
even when he wasn't.
1278
01:24:47,780 --> 01:24:51,940
And now, performing his stuff without him
is weird.
1279
01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:54,440
But there is a healing here.
1280
01:24:54,441 --> 01:24:58,340
And doing it with a fellow sidey makes me
feel okay.
1281
01:24:59,020 --> 01:25:00,020
Somehow.
1282
01:25:02,230 --> 01:25:07,880
You know, two sidemen from two different
camps coming together to do something.
1283
01:25:08,060 --> 01:25:13,400
But it's not... we're not just bringing
the sidemen stuff with us.
1284
01:25:13,480 --> 01:25:18,040
We're bringing our own individual vibe and
feel.
1285
01:25:18,460 --> 01:25:21,040
You got vocals all around, yes?
1286
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:21,480
Yeah, yeah.
1287
01:25:21,481 --> 01:25:26,260
I think something really good is gonna
come out of that mix.
1288
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:36,821
I did not want to try to emulate David
Bowie through a pseudo-Brit Bowie-okey dude.
1289
01:25:38,740 --> 01:25:39,940
Mission accomplished.
1290
01:25:40,180 --> 01:25:41,920
And I got to work with Bernard.
1291
01:25:42,180 --> 01:25:44,236
And we are now best
friends and we'll continue
1292
01:25:44,237 --> 01:25:46,741
working together because
I love the guy to death.
1293
01:25:55,180 --> 01:25:57,220
My name is Bernard Fowler.
1294
01:25:57,320 --> 01:25:58,880
And I'm happy as f*** to be here.
1295
01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:08,620
Please say hello to my partner in crime,
the reason I'm here, Earl Slick.
1296
01:26:11,700 --> 01:26:15,600
I couldn't think of anybody but him that
could really, not only pull it off,
1297
01:26:15,620 --> 01:26:20,440
like, vocally, but, you know, has his own
stage thing.
1298
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:21,760
And he wasn't gonna imitate.
1299
01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:24,116
You know, I know that he was just gonna be
Bernard.
1300
01:26:24,140 --> 01:26:25,140
And that's what I wanted.
1301
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:28,540
Look at the sky, the lights be gone.
1302
01:26:28,541 --> 01:26:31,720
Nights are warm and the days are young.
1303
01:26:47,670 --> 01:26:49,970
Bernard is magic.
1304
01:26:50,390 --> 01:26:59,870
He made them cry, he made them laugh,
he made them scream.
1305
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:08,380
The man got right to their gut.
1306
01:27:08,660 --> 01:27:10,540
And that ain't easy to do.
1307
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:30,520
I mean, some shit happened last night on
that stage.
1308
01:27:30,900 --> 01:27:32,440
That was my paycheck.
1309
01:27:34,340 --> 01:27:36,280
I'm going home with a smile on my face.
1310
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:38,680
Just for one day.
1311
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:45,480
Just for one day.
1312
01:28:06,630 --> 01:28:07,710
I am working.
1313
01:28:07,990 --> 01:28:09,130
To make money.
1314
01:28:09,131 --> 01:28:10,550
To pay my bills.
1315
01:28:10,650 --> 01:28:11,650
Take care of my children.
1316
01:28:12,150 --> 01:28:12,810
And eat.
1317
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:14,550
Just like the rest of you guys do.
1318
01:28:14,750 --> 01:28:15,170
You know?
1319
01:28:15,350 --> 01:28:18,110
But I do have something that the other guy
doesn't have.
1320
01:28:18,310 --> 01:28:19,310
I've got freedom.
1321
01:28:19,870 --> 01:28:22,010
I don't like being told what to do.
1322
01:28:22,250 --> 01:28:26,137
And I like the fact that,
you know, I can just sit out
1323
01:28:26,138 --> 01:28:28,751
here by this creek sometimes
and just f***ing do nothing.
1324
01:28:28,990 --> 01:28:34,030
And I'm not sitting in traffic four hours
a day waiting to be 60 years old and
1325
01:28:34,031 --> 01:28:37,190
collecting some bullshit pension and a
fake gold watch.
1326
01:28:38,130 --> 01:28:39,130
Then what?
1327
01:28:39,950 --> 01:28:42,790
Reality TV, Budweiser and popcorn?
1328
01:28:43,210 --> 01:28:43,890
Jesus.
1329
01:28:44,150 --> 01:28:45,150
Shoot me.
109953
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