All language subtitles for T.G.I.M.C.S02E02.Silent.Film.Star.and.The.Man.Who.Fell.Far.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.H.264-playWEB_track3_[eng]

He said there was a
lot of blood everywhere.

Amy had an
obsession with dying young.

She was obsessed
with the silent movies.

He says, oh, yeah,
at my other house.

And I'm thinking,
what other house?

Brennan replied, well, yeah,
before I fell off the roof

and died.

I couldn't believe it.

I started to
wonder what was happening.

He mentioned dying
and going to heaven.

He told me, God sent me
back on a white horse,

and I woke up as Brennan.

She said,
Mom, this is me.

This is who I was
in my last life.

I thought it was strange.

Something was
definitely going on.

I thought
Brennan was being haunted.

What's going on here?

There was something
about her that was so sad.

That's not something
a six-year-old would say.

Where this
came from, I don't know.

What's going on?

Could he really be
talking about a past life?

Oh, Buffalo used to be a
small town when I grew up here,

like Mayberry.

Go back to the '60s.

And most of the local
people that were here then

are still here.

Buffalo is 40 miles
northwest of Minneapolis.

I couldn't wait 'til I was 18,
so I could get out of here.

But then, I went out
and saw the world.

And I figured out
that, actually, this

is a pretty nice town to be in.

My husband, Craig, and
I have five children.

Amy is our fifth child.

Amy was born premature
three months.

She weighed two
and a half pounds.

And it's just
unimaginable how hard

it is to have a little
baby in the hospital.

I was working
a lot of hours.

We had four kids at home.

And that was a real hard time.

Theresa spent most of her
days at the hospital with Amy

because she didn't come
home for three months.

One day, the
doctors would tell you,

she's doing wonderful.

She had a great night.

And the next day, you'd
come in, and they'd say,

we're having some trouble today.

And there were
just so many things

that could have happened.

I'd look into her
little face, and I

knew she was here for a reason.

We were told by the doctors
what a miracle she was.

When we brought Amy home,
we were all very happy.

She was
very, very quiet,

preferred to be by herself.

Interesting thing about Amy
was that she didn't talk.

We were concerned, and we
took her to different doctors

and speech pathologists.

And they really couldn't
find anything wrong with her.

She just didn't want to talk.

She'd point to what she'd
want, and we'd get it for her.

She would just
gesture, and people

would do things for her.

She'd tug at your pants
legs when she was smaller,

and somebody would pick her up.

We weren't
overly concerned

until she was about
five years old.

And then we were told that
something wasn't normal there.

I started to wonder
what was happening.

Amy was just really different.

She absolutely loved
watching old movies.

She'd watch them
over and over again.

And then she'd dress
up and try to imitate

what she was watching.

And this one time, she went
in the bathroom, came out.

She had her hair set in curlers.

It was just the most perfect
job you could ever imagine.

Now, she was four years old.

I couldn't have even set
her hair that perfect.

And then she had a big
red bandanna tied over it.

And I couldn't believe how
good she was at doing her hair.

I think she
was more of a loner

because she was just
happy by herself.

And she loved
watching old movies.

She'd watch them
over and over again.

It was different because none
of the other children did that.

When she was watching
her movies and she wouldn't even

acknowledge that
you were in there,

she was almost
trance-like, just--

just staring at it,
oblivious to anything else

that was around her.

I found it a little odd.

Amy discovered
silent movies on her own.

But I always felt like there was
something connected to her not

speaking and her love
for silent movies.

I thought it was strange.

We were concerned
that she didn't talk.

Something different was
definitely going on.

In Memphis, because
we're in the Bible Belt,

we have, probably, a church
on every other corner,

different denominations
all lined up.

A lot of Christian
tradition here,

values, and some
very conservative

views because we are
in the Bible Belt.

My name is Tan, and I have a
six-year-old son named Brennan.

Before Brennan was born, I went
through years of infertility.

I had a couple of miscarriages.

In one, I ended up having
one baby stuck in each tube.

And as a result, I had
to have a surgery where

one of my fallopian
tubes was removed.

And at that point, I was told
that I wouldn't have children

of my own.

I went through a
huge depression.

I really wanted children.

I was already in
my 30s, and that

was a huge blow to my faith and
to my confidence as a woman.

Four months after I was told
that I wouldn't have children,

I started to have a
little bit of queasiness.

I didn't think that I was
pregnant, so I waited a while.

Finally, I went to my specialist
and took a blood test.

I was told that I was pregnant.

When I first held
Brennan at birth,

it was more relief of,
OK, you actually made it.

Because I was told I
could not have a child.

And it was a miracle.

Brennan hit all of
his milestones early.

He rolled over
early, smiled early.

He started nonverbal
communication

at around five or six months.

He started talking at
nine, 10 months old.

By the time he
was 12 months old,

Brennan was speaking
complete sentences.

You know, there's smart, and
then there's creepy smart.

It's kind of like he talks
to you like a little--

like a little man.

My name is Kimberly,
and I'm Brennan's aunt.

Sometimes Brennan
acts like an old man.

Being that we're from the
South and sometimes he

says adult things with a twang
to it, like "git" over there

and sit "dyown."

Just his manner--

he's so matter of fact.

And he'll even say, I
look handsome today.

And he prefers
fedoras and jackets.

The style that he likes to dress
was thriving around the '40s,

'50s.

A typical day for
Brennan going to school

is a starched oxford
button-down, a bow tie

or a necktie.

He usually picks a fedora
or a newspaper boy hat.

Brennan is very much
like a little old man.

He's the one that
decided that he wanted

to start dressing this way.

I run a daycare
center out of my home.

I'm around children
five days a week.

I work with multiple ages, from
six weeks to 12 years of age.

So I know children.

Most children, they're not
worried about their clothes.

I have to say, OK, come
on, let's fix your clothes,

and tuck your shirt in.

Now, fix your shoes.

And Brennan, he's very
particular about the way

he looks.

I was proud, but then
I started to get concerned.

Because he was smarter than I
thought he should have been.

You don't know whether you
should be proud or afraid.

Brennan was four, and he
wanted to put together

this solar system--

Styrofoam balls, which
you're supposed to paint

and all of that.

A friend of mine was
helping him to assemble it.

And I think there
were only, maybe,

four sticks that
came in this kit.

And so she was asking me
where the other sticks were.

You know, we're thinking that
you're supposed to have one

stick per ball, or per planet.

Then I start to
get on to Brennan.

What did you do with
the other sticks?

And you know, he's
saying no, no, no.

You're supposed to slide the
planets through the sticks

instead of trying to assemble
them the way we were trying

to do it.

Having this child direct two
adults on how to put together

a solar system kit, that
was a sobering moment.

It really was.

Brennan just knows
how to make things,

and I can't explain how
he knows how to do that.

He's always been
able to do that.

We noticed, as a family, that
Brennan started to have hearing

problems around five.

I thought, this is not normal.

And one day, when we
were at the park playing,

and he was so far ahead of
me, and he couldn't hear

me yelling, I was
concerned about his safety

because I didn't
want him to run off

into the rocks near the water.

And I was yelling for him,
and he did not hear me.

About a year ago,
it was diagnosed

that Brennan had a severe
deficit in his right ear.

He's been to
several specialists,

and it was what they
considered unexplained.

But as a parent, it's hard
to process emotionally.

It's hard to accept
that your son is not

going to be able to hear.

If the doctors don't have an
answer for it, what is it?

When my son, Brennan,
was born, I was ecstatic.

I was told for years that
I couldn't have children.

So when Brennan was
born, it was a miracle.

Brennan was diagnosed with
an unknown hearing loss.

You feel like you've hit a
brick wall, as a parent, when

the medical professionals are
telling you, keep an eye on it,

and here's a hearing
aid in the meantime.

One of the terms I use
about being Brennan's mom

is when the extraordinary
becomes ordinary.

He has this insight that a
lot of adults don't even have.

Having a child that is not
only academically bright

but is also socially
bright and gifted,

it's a lot of responsibility.

He can't be fooled very long.

So the things that you can get
away with with other children

just don't fly with him.

It's kind of like
he's been here before.

Well, one day Brennan
and I were in the house,

just doing typical things.

All of a sudden,
out of nowhere, he

says, oh, yeah, and, um,
you know, at my other house.

You know, and I'm
thinking, what--

what other house?

I'm like, we don't
have another house.

Honey, this is--
this is our house.

This is the only house we have.

No, my other house.

My other room.

And he would try to describe it.

He said it was shaped
like a rectangle,

whereas we were living in a
house that was shaped more

like a square with
a triangle on top.

But the house he
was thinking about

was shaped like a rectangle.

Those are northern style homes.

In Memphis, we don't really
have houses like that.

For him to be able to give me
that kind of detail, that's

when I knew, OK, there
was something a little bit

peculiar going on.

And then what
happened next scared me.

I work around
children all the time.

And I can tell when
they're making things up

and when things actually happen.

Brennan, he doesn't lie.

And you can really
tell because he

doesn't like to get in trouble.

So he's going to tell the truth.

He started talking about
God sending him down.

That's when I started to
think, what's going on here?

My daughter, Amy, was
born three months premature.

And she didn't speak.

We were concerned.

We took her to
different doctors,

and they really couldn't
find anything wrong with her.

She just didn't want to talk.

When we first
started bringing her

to speech therapists, they
said there was nothing wrong.

When she wasn't talking at
three or four years old,

it started getting worrisome.

And we did think it
was due to the fact

that she was so premature.

Doctors said that it was
normal that her speech might

be affected.

But once she got to
be five years old

and she still wasn't talking,
we were a little concerned.

I started to realize that
it didn't have anything

to do with Amy being premature.

There was something
else going on.

She also started wearing makeup
when she was three and four.

She always had lipstick on.

I do wear a lot of makeup.

I love it.

I'm a real girly girl.

So when Amy came along
and was a girly girl,

too, I really
thought it was cute.

It didn't matter
where she was going.

She would have her
trademark lipstick on.

And it was always
perfectly applied.

I couldn't believe how
she could apply makeup.

She knew what
kind of hairstyles.

She had the clothes
to go with that era.

She would get dressed up
like that for family parties.

I would try to tell her, why
are you dressing this way?

Because it's not a formal party.

We're not going to sit
down and eat dinner.

We're going to be playing
volleyball and barbecuing.

I was concerned about it.

Amy started to
blossom around six years old.

I don't understand why.

Just all of a sudden,
she started talking.

I was really happy.

When she
did start talking,

we were relieved because we
knew it wasn't permanent.

I can't
remember when I first

noticed that Amy was out of
step with other children.

She was always a bit eccentric
and quirky, even as a toddler.

But she was so darn cute that
we just gave her latitude,

let her be herself.

I just really wanted her
to get out of the house,

and get some exercise,
and have some fun,

and maybe meet some new people.

She was afraid
of a lot of things.

She was not a joiner.

She was a loner.

There were times where
I would come home from work,

and it'd be a nice,
sunny summer day.

And everybody's outside playing,
and she's still in the house.

I would tell her, I said, get
outside and enjoy the sun.

This is Minnesota.

It's going to be snowing
in a couple months,

and you won't be able to do it.

I thought it was a little odd
that she would stay inside.

I think sometimes Amy
felt like she didn't really

belong.

She didn't connect with
kids her age at all.

And I felt bad about that.

And I was sad.

All of our
kids, we'd ask them

what they want for birthdays
or Christmas presents.

And it was usually hockey
skates or fishing poles.

And Amy wanted old posters or
old movies, old silent movies.

If we were ever on
vacation, we had

to keep our eyes open
for anything old.

That's what she wanted.

Amy loved to
go to antique stores.

And she seemed to find
connections with certain things

that she would see.

She would see a
dress, and she'd say,

oh, I had one just like
that, only mine was yellow.

And I wore it to this party.

I remember there was this
man that I talked to,

and he was so nice.

And he bought me a Coke.

I started to wonder
what was happening.

By the time Amy was nine
or 10, she just absolutely

was obsessed with movie
stars, and especially movie

stars that had tragic deaths.

She would research the
people in the movie.

And if somebody died young,
she would do more research.

Amy talked about dying
young all the time.

It was disturbing.

But she seemed to have a lot
of empathy for people that

had tragic childhoods.

And I don't know where that--

where that comes from.

I was concerned
about the obsession,

and I did try to steer
her away from it.

I would say, it's only
going to make you sad.

Concentrate on the happy things
that happen, not the sad part.

My wife would let
me know what was going on,

what she felt about all
these young people dying

at an early age.

And I thought,
well, I don't really

know what to say about it.

Amy had a
charmed childhood.

And I think she would agree.

So it is a little
bit bewildering

why she would be so interested
in movie stars that died young.

I couldn't help Amy.

I wanted to shield her
from tragedies like that.

I felt helpless.

I just thought,
at the time, it was

a phase she was going through.

I had no idea how everything
was going to pan out

when it was all said and done.

I couldn't believe
what happened next.

My daughter, Amy,
became obsessed

with people dying young.

She was consumed
with old Hollywood.

I felt helpless because I
couldn't help Amy understand

that that's life.

And I wanted to shield her
from tragedies like that.

I think there was a
connection between Amy being

a loner and the whole silent
movie phase that she was in.

I think Amy was
trying to find herself

through the silent movies.

It made her feel comfortable.

It made her feel alive.

It was a little odd
when she started

talking about Jack Pickford.

She was in love
with Jack Pickford.

He was her first crush.

She had to have
been 10 years old.

I wasn't home a
lot, but when I was home,

I did hear the name
Jack Pickford a lot.

I didn't know
anything about Jack Pickford

until Amy told me.

Jack Pickford was Mary
Pickford's brother.

Mary Pickford was an actress.

She was America's
sweetheart back in the 1900s

through the 1930s.

But Amy really felt
sorry for Jack.

From what I've
heard about Jack Pickford,

I don't think I would
want him associating

with one of my daughters.

He's been portrayed
as a wife abuser, an alcoholic.

Supposedly, he died of syphilis.

But Amy carried pictures of
Jack Pickford all the time.

I found it really strange that
Amy was so enamored with Jack

Pickford.

He's not the kind of
man, from what I heard,

that you would want your
daughter associating with.

Amy would get so upset when
she would read something,

or somebody would say
something-- somebody's blog

or something on the computer.

And she would go,
that's just not right.

She goes, I'm so mad.

How could they say
that about Jack?

They don't even know him.

It was extremely bizarre to have
a 10-year-old defending a man

who has such a reputation.

At first, I thought Amy's
fascination with Jack Pickford

was just a phase.

But then I discovered that
it was much bigger than that.

One day, when Amy was
about 12 years old,

she showed me a picture.

And she said, Mom, this is me.

This is who I was
in my last life.

Where this came from, I don't--

I don't know.

My son, Brennan,
is very bright.

And he has this memory
that's like a steel trap.

He remembers everything.

So when he started talking
about his other house

and the other room, I started
wondering where is this--

where is this coming from?

It's frustrating.

Because it's a hard position to
be in as a parent when you're

trying to tell your child
something doesn't exist

and they know that it does.

But because I knew he was so
well connected and grounded

in reality, I knew that this
had to be something he really

believed in.

When Brennan was six, he was
able to tell me that God sent

him down to me because God knew
that I really wanted children

and because he was such a
kind, smart man the last time.

He told me, God sent me
back on a white horse,

and I woke up as Brennan.

That's the kind of
thing that, as a parent,

you get chills about.

But where else is
this coming from?

I was trying to process,
like, what he meant.

This is when you realize
you're having a conversation

that you're not quite
equipped as a parent to have.

And the emotional intelligence
that was in his voice

when he said that to me, it was
so sincere, and it struck me.

Because that's not something
a six-year-old would say.

Brennan started to
ask me questions.

Did I remember being
a grown person before?

And I didn't.

And so Brennan started saying to
me that there were old people,

and there were new people.

I wondered, could
this actually be?

We were in the car,
driving to the store.

And in the back seat,
he made a comment

like, it's gonna
be dark here soon.

He sounded like a farmer.

I just remember thinking,
what child says how

it's gonna be dark here soon?

And in that moment I asked him--

not prepared for the answer--

Brennan, have you been
a grown-up before?

Do you remember being
a grown-up before?

And very
matter-of-factly, Brennan

replied, without missing
a beat, well, yeah,

before I fell off
the roof and died.

I'm-- I'm surprised that I
didn't lose control of the car

at the time.

There are moments in your
life that you will forever

remember in detail.

Things slow down, and you can
just remember exactly where you

were and exactly what
your response was,

and everything around
you is just stuck.

That was that moment for me.

You know, it almost
knocked the wind out of me,

emotionally and mentally.

Because you're thinking,
OK, my son just

told me that he has memories of
falling off the roof and dying.

So as I'm putting him
in the shopping cart,

I'm still trying to
be very cavalier,

you know, just
very, kind of, cool.

Oh, OK.

So you fell off
the roof and died.

Oh, OK.

Well, you know,
what was you doing?

And he replied, well, I
was working on the roof,

and some of my grown-up
friends were helping me.

I was working on the roof and
they were working on the walls.

He was so matter-of-fact.

It was almost like, well, duh.

Didn't you know?

And that just knocked
the wind out of me.

In that moment, I
thought, could he really

be talking about a past life?

My daughter, Amy,
was obsessed with silent films

and the actor Jack Pickford.

The real surprise
came when she told me

that she had lived before.

One day, when Amy was
about 12 years old,

she showed me a picture.

I looked at the picture, and
I had no idea who it was.

There was just something about
her that was so sad, so tragic.

It was a picture
of Lucille Ricksen.

She went on to tell
me Lucille's story.

And it was just
so heartbreaking.

She said, Mom, I think
I was Lucille Ricksen

in my last life.

I had never heard
of the lady before.

I was shocked.

Because I thought she was
only 12, 13 years old.

But looking back, she had been
doing this for the last eight,

nine years.

And then, she said, Mom,
she died when she was 14.

When she came to me
with the photograph of Lucille,

it was like somebody
socked me in the gut.

Because she truly believed
what she was saying.

I was surprised, the
knowledge that she had.

This wasn't a famous
movie star to me.

I just spent hours
researching Lucille.

Unfortunately, Lucille
had a very tragic life.

Her mother, Ingeborg, was
the ultimate stage mother.

Lucille made her
first movie when

she was only five years old.

And she was very beautiful.

And the studio really
took advantage of her.

And if you didn't go along
with what the studio said,

you just didn't work.

Well, they even called her
the "youngest leading lady"

in Hollywood.

She worked long hours.

I mean, she even had roles
where she played the wife.

Lucille just grew
up way too fast.

She became ill.

She was bedridden.

There were a lot of rumors.

But her mother had
a heart attack.

She collapsed and died
right on top of Lucille.

And then, two weeks
later, Lucille was dead.

Lucille's last words
were, "Mother is waiting."

I think that Amy is speaking up
for a child star that never had

her own voice.

Amy didn't have her
own voice for a while.

And now she does,
through Lucille.

It just breaks my heart.

That made me start
thinking a little bit more.

There would be
things that she would

say that weren't on the movies.

OK, maybe she's really
on to something here.

When Amy saw
the picture of Lucille,

it triggered emotions and then
memories of her past life.

It turns out that Lucille
Ricksen and Jack Pickford

had worked together
in several movies.

And she knew all this
without even researching it.

My name is Amy,
and I'm 17 years old.

I never understood why I was
drawn to the silent movies.

No one else was
interested in that.

It made me feel a bit odd,
that something wasn't right.

When I first saw a
picture of Lucille,

there was only about two
known pictures of her

on the internet.

And when I saw it, I basically
just stopped breathing.

I knew that there
was so much there.

It all clicked
about my obsession

with dying young,
obsession with child stars.

And then when I saw she was
in "The Hill Billy" with Jack

Pickford, it all
clicked that I--

I knew him, and that's
why I had these feelings.

One memory I
remember specifically

is looking down and seeing
beautiful silver shoes

and a long, frilly dress
and Jack Pickford on the set

drinking Coca-Cola all the time.

He would come up to me and
ask, how are you doing today,

lovely?

Or how are you doing, pretty--

lots of darling and sweetie.

And he seemed like he genuinely
cared about how I was feeling

that day.

And it didn't come across as
creepy or that he was trying

to hit on me.

It just seemed like
he really cared.

I knew that I would
love him forever.

One memory I had as Lucille is
looking down and seeing blood

all over.

It's written that I
died from tuberculosis.

But exactly how I died, I think
what's written isn't true.

I feel a lot of
regret for my life

as Lucille being cut short,
because it could have been

saved if I would have spoken up.

And now I get to have my own
voice because Lucille never

had her own.

And there isn't even
a sound of Lucille.

She's just a face and
just on the screen.

So I'm glad that now I can
talk about my life as well

as Lucille's.

I feel speaking about Lucille
now is my chance to finally

say goodbye to all of those
people that I still hold on to.

Because it's time to move on.

And now I feel I'm strong enough
to finally say goodbye to them.

My mom has arranged for
us to go to Hollywood

and to get some
closure on my life

as Lucille as my new chance
now to start a better life.

From what we
know of Lucille's life,

it wasn't all happiness.

She has to deal with some of
the bad things that happened

to Lucille.

I feel like it's an important
part of Amy's journey

to go to Hollywood,
and we'll see

what happens when we get there.

When my son, Brennan,
told me he fell off the roof

and died, I--

I didn't know what to think.

You don't really know
where to go with that.

They don't really teach you
that in parenting class, what

to do when your child tells you
about a past-life experience.

And I asked him, so when you
fell off the roof, did it hurt?

And he was like, yeah, it hurt.

I fell off the roof and died.

And I said, oh, OK.

What did you see?

And he said, there
was a lot of blood.

I was like, OK.

Is this something that we
need to take him to church

and pray about,
get it off of him?

What is this that
he's going through?

It is hard to hear, as
a parent, your son talking

about dying or remembering the
trauma involved with a death.

I mean, I don't know how
that's going to affect him.

I don't know if that's
already affecting him,

and I just wasn't aware.

I did not believe that
Brennan had a past life.

I didn't even think
about reincarnation.

Here in the
South, if, you know,

the Bible doesn't say it
exists, it doesn't exist.

I say, you know, just because
it doesn't say it doesn't mean

it doesn't exist.

So many things started
to make sense for me.

One fact was that he remembers
falling and there being trauma

to this side of his head.

I remember falling
off of a house.

Brennan is convinced,
and he will tell you--

I hit my head right here.

That's why I have
the hearing aid.

- that's the reason I
can't hear in my right ear.

Because when I died, I
hurt my head on this side.

There's still-- there's
still something wrong with it.

The thing that made
me think that Brennan did

have a past life was
the hearing thing.

He can't hear in his right ear.

My sister took
him to the doctor.

They don't know why
he has hearing loss.

Because everything is fine,
structurally, with his ear.

I'm like, OK, it is something.

Brennan would
start giving me

details about his other
family in his other life.

He told me that his
dad looked kind of

like his dad in this
life, but he had a beard.

You know, of course, his dad in
this life doesn't have a beard.

My dad died kind of
early, when I was in my 40s.

At some point, Brennan
mentioned that he believes

he was born in Springfield.

Recently, I've been
doing some research,

and I've come up with
several different choices

that I want to present to
Brennan just to see if anything

stands out.

I'm excited about showing
Brennan some possibilities,

just to give us some
closure, or a place to start.

You know that we were trying
to figure out who you were when

you were a grown man?

Yes.

I found a couple of things
I want you to take a look at.

You don't have to
make up anything.

If you remember, great.

If you don't, that's
OK, too, right?

Yes.
OK.

So I just want you
to tell me the truth.

If something stands out, or
if you remember something,

just let me know, OK?

OK.

OK.

So can you take a look
at these and tell me

if any of these names
or any of these places

sound familiar to you?

George Fred Douglas.

That doesn't sound
anything like mine.

OK.

William Stanbaugh-- no.

James P. Patterson,
city of Springfield.

Right?

Yeah.

James P.
was born in 1902.

Mm-hmm.

Does any of that sound familiar?

Yes.

Not much is known about
his upbringing other

than they think that he
spent most of his life

in construction work.

When Brennan connected
to one of the articles,

it was a surprise for me.

Because I wasn't sure if
we would get anything.

There were so many
different articles.

There were so many
different stories.

James was working on
a roof at a four-story dormity.

Dormitory.

dormitory when he lost his
balance and fell 40 feet to his

death.

Does that sound
familiar to you at all?

This is really happening.

He's really connecting.

It's still so surreal
that it's a surprise.

But I believe him.

This is it.

It's it.

Definitely that one.

OK.

Well, do you think that you want
to find out a little bit more

about James Patterson?

Yes.

Should we look up some
more information about him?

Yes.

And can we see a picture of him?

The death happened in
the '60s, so it's possible

that we could find a photograph,
which is something he's really

interested in doing.

OK.

I'll see what we can do.

We'll start some
research on that, OK?

Well, I'm really excited that
we were able to find someone

that lines up with everything
Brennan's been telling us.

This man was a construction
worker and fell off a roof

and died.

He lived in Springfield
and in a time

where the fedoras and dressing
up every day was the norm.

And of course, Brennan
likes dressing this way.

It's important to me
to be able to find out

more about who he possibly
was if he's interested in it.

Because I don't
consider it a past life.

I consider it a
part of who he is.

It's all Brennan.

His memories from
that long ago, to me,

are no different
than his memories

from what he ate for
breakfast this morning.

It's all the same consciousness.

It's all the same person.

I am able to come to grips
with that he was once here

and he was a grown man.

I don't want to say
that it's reincarnation.

I mean, it is what
it is, reincarnation.

But I don't want to
label it as that.

It's nothing that he wakes up
in horrifying dreams about.

So as long as he's OK
with it, I'm OK with it.

I'm glad--

I'm glad that God sent
me to the mom I have now.

She really wanted a baby.

It's a surprise.

I feel like Brennan was sent
here for a special purpose.

I really do.

If I were to be asked if I
think Brennan was sent here

to save me, probably more
than I could ever say.

Spiritually, I believe he did.

Because at that point, he
reopened the conversation

for me and God.

Especially when he says that
he was sent here to help me,

one thing that I know for
sure that he did was he

gave me my faith back.

We're really
here in Hollywood.

This is where Lucille
lived and died.

When we walked up
to the house, I

think the reality of
everything came crashing down.

It brought back
a lot of memories.

I was having panic attacks
because I was thinking

of the months I spent secluded
inside of my bedroom, sick.

You have to remember
she died in the house.

That was pretty sad.

We're really here in Hollywood.

This is where Lucille
lived and died.

I think Amy meeting
with the biographer

is going to help her fill
in some holes in the story--

Hi.
I'm Michael.

Hi.

Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you.

- and maybe answer
some questions that she has.

How much do you know
about Lucille's life?

A lot.

I'm having flashbacks
from my life as Lucille.

I guess we'd
like to ask you questions

and see if it jives with
what she's been feeling and--

Great.

Ask me questions.

What was Lucille's
relationship with Jack?

Jack Pickford?
Yeah.

Oh, yeah-- Jack Pickford.
Jack Pickford.

Yes.

He, of course, selected her for
the role in "The Hill Billy."

Yes.

I got that right.

Yeah, I said that.

I feel I met him
at the WAMPA party.

And he said that
I'll be seeing you.

And I didn't know
what that meant.

And then we got the call that he
wanted me for "The Hill Billy."

For the leading
lady in "The Hill Billy."

Yeah.

I want the exact kind
of date when I got sick.

Because I felt that it was
during "The Galloping Fish"

with Syd Chaplin.

It was during "The
Galloping Fish."

OK.

It was about that time.

And of course,
Lucille, at that time,

had made about 10
films in seven months.

And I think it was
really too much for her.

Lucille was very, very seriously
ill when her mother died.

I think the stress
of Lucille's illness

was certainly a factor
in her mother dying.

We are not sure
how Lucille died.

Her death certificate says, you
know, pulmonary tuberculosis.

But there were rumors
that she was overworked,

which certainly she was, and
that perhaps she had gotten too

friendly with some
of her co-stars--

a director, perhaps-- and became
pregnant, and had an abortion,

and then never
completely recovered.

That is a rumor
that's out there.

Oh.

It was Syd Chaplin
that did that.

It was Syd Chaplin?

Yeah.

That's how I feel I died,
was from an abortion.

Like, that wasn't
the main thing.

But around the time we were
filming "The Galloping Fish" is

when it all happened.

And she did work
with Syd in "The Galloping--"

Yeah.

I can't find any validation on
this, and maybe it's not true.

But I feel that I
don't know how--

if we could ever
figure that out.

What's your personal opinion?

I think
something happened.

I think something more
sinister than just overwork.

I think someone took
advantage of her youth

and caused her to grow
up before she was ready.

Of all the people that I have
written about and researched,

I think, you know, Lucille
stands out as the saddest.

And the story still haunts me.

I think she cries out for
justice and retribution

as to what happened to her.

Yeah, I agree.

Michael validated some
points of Lucille's life

that I needed to know.

And I feel really
great about it.

How did the Ricksen family feel?

I think the area
around Lucille's life

was always a mystery to them.

They didn't know
where she was buried.

Through Lucille's scrapbooks,
we found a burial plot.

Oh.

Hi.

We're looking for
Lucille Ricksen.

Excuse me?

Lucille Ricksen.

Just been up and down today
with all sorts of emotions--

happiness, sadness, just the
realization that we're really

here, seeing the urn.

It's an emotional thing.

I feel different now.

I feel better.

And I feel like I can live a
better life than as Lucille.

It feels like a weight
has been lifted off of me.

I feel good.

Even though it's sad,
are you glad that you came?

I'll never forget
my life as Lucille.

But I feel like now I can
continue my life just as Amy.