All language subtitles for T.G.I.M.C.S01E03.Orphan.Trains.Hotel.Flames.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.H.264-playWEB_track3_[eng]

Our son Luke told me
that he had died and been reborn

again.

Well, he said it was a fire.

We just jumped down.

She said, I'm going
to draw you my other mother.

Your other mother?

I thought, oh my gosh, somebody
tried to abduct my daughter.

I knew that because
someone sees something doesn't

mean they understand
what's happening.

I could tell that he
was disturbed by something.

She was withdrawn.

She was angry.

I was at a loss.

She said I'm not crazy.

I'm not crazy.

He was just staring
in incomplete disbelief too.

I started feeling
sick to my stomach.

I was
definitely concerned.

I didn't know what to think.

What I found
was heartbreaking.

Cincinnati is a great
place to raise a family.

It's in the heart
of the Midwest.

I think there's
about 300,000 people.

My wife and I
met in high school.

We went to high school together.

And then we went to the
University of Cincinnati

together.

We started a family
here in Cincinnati

not too far away from
where we both grew up.

My husband Nick and I
are pretty open-minded people,

but nothing really prepared
us for exactly what happened

with our whole
experience with Luke.

When I had Luke, it
felt like something

that I had been missing
forever was now in my life.

Our first-born
grandchild-- the day

he was put into my
arms was a gift.

I looked into his eyes.

Looked like Erika.

The moment I looked
at him, we bonded.

It was an incredible moment.

Nick was above and
beyond excited to have a boy.

Luke is a smart kid.

He is very vocal.

OK.

Drumroll, please.

He was very, very early
in all of his development.

He was an early talker.

Luke always had a
cautionary side to him

that we couldn't explain.

Most children, you know-- they
have to learn that the stove is

hot from either getting
yelled at or touching it

and burning themselves.

But it's like Luke already
knew all those things.

Even I am shocked at
things that he says.

The first thing that he
would say to me that would make

me turn around and question
what he was talking about

is he would say, before I
was a baby, I had black hair.

And I was like, what
are you talking about.

You know, you were
bald until you were 2,

and now you have blond hair.

You never had black hair.

One day I was getting
dressed and put earrings on,

and he reached up and
touched my earring

and said, oh, I used to
have a pair like that

when I was a girl.

I remember thinking, OK, he
doesn't know what he's talking

about, you know.

He's just used to me
getting dressed and ready

in the morning and sees
me putting earrings on,

and he wants to relate.

After correcting
him so many times

and explaining to him
that he was born a boy

and that he was never a
girl, he would still kind of

bring things up just
matter of factly,

like, oh, well, when I
was a girl, I did that.

And, you know, when a 2-year-old
says something like that,

you just kind of blow it off.

You don't really think
anything of it at first.

We were sitting outside, and
we had found a few ladybugs.

And I showed him-- you know,
Luke, look, this is a ladybug.

Isn't it cute?

I said, well, should
we name the ladybug.

And he said Pam.

And I just remember laughing
because I'm like, Pam--

where in the heck
did he get that?

He doesn't know any Pams.

There's no Pams on any of
the TV shows that he watches.

I started making
mental notes of it

just because it started
to be a little disturbing.

And next thing you
know, it happened again.

We heard Luke call one of his
little stuffed animals Pam.

In fact, anytime we named
anything, if it was a girl,

it would be Pam.

Why is he saying Pam?

Where's that coming from?

When Luke was 3,
it was Valentine's Day,

and we were hanging little
Valentine's Day decorations

in the window.

They were little owls
that were red and pink.

I asked him what we should
name one of the owls,

and he said Pam.

I kind of like had like that
moment where I was like I want

to know why it's always Pam.

Who's Pam?

And he looks right at
me, and he says, I was.

Well, I used to be,
and then I died.

And I went up to heaven,
and God pushed me back down.

And when I woke
up, I was a baby.

And you named me Luke.

My husband Bill and
my daughter Willa and I live

in Indiana, Pennsylvania.

It's a small town in
Southwestern Pennsylvania.

It's part of Appalachia.

It's a coal town.

It has a university, though,
so it's a little bit larger

than some of the
smaller towns around us.

I'm Bill, and
I'm Willa's father.

When Willa was born, I
was absolutely ecstatic.

She was our first,
and she's our only.

We had moved from
Rochester, New York, when

I took a position
at the University.

Nothing very unusual
happened with Willa

until she was about
2 or 3 years old.

I took her to the local park.

Lots of kids playing,
lots of people around.

It's a late spring day.

I was just sitting not too
far from her, watching her,

and she was standing,
looking at a tree.

It was a fairly good-sized tree.

And there was a limb that came
sort of out from the side where

somebody could
reasonably be sitting.

And then I could see that
she was talking to the tree.

And my first thought
was, isn't that sweet.

She loves the tree.

She's talking to trees.

When we got back
from the park, she

was drawing with
chalk in the driveway.

And she said, I'm going to
draw you my other mother.

And I said, your other mother.

She said, yes, my other mother.

She was in the park.

At first I thought, oh my gosh.

Somehow, at some point, somebody
tried to abduct my daughter.

Somebody tried to tell her
that they were her mother

and take her away.

I didn't want to frighten her.

And I said, well, tell me
about your other mother.

And she said, well,
she was up in the tree.

I said, why is she in the tree?

And she said, well,
she only had one leg.

She was bit by a snake, and a
bad doctor tried to save her.

And he cut off her leg,
but she still died anyway.

And she said, get me down.

Help me down.

And I told her, can't
you see I'm little now.

I can't help you down.

And she told this woman,
her other mother-- she said,

I have to go now.

I have a new mother.

And she walked away.

When I realized that
Willow was actually

talking about another
mother that she had had,

I was shocked.

I thought, I don't
know what's happening.

Willa never mentioned her
other mother to me directly.

Her mother was the one
that she would talk to

in more personal ways.

I think it could be because
I'm basically skeptical of just

about everything.

And I think Willa sensed that
my reaction would be different

from Laurel's.

I would be more, not sure
about that, sweetheart.

Let's think this through.

I know that
she has seen something

from the look on her face.

If I can't hear what she's
hearing, I can't help her.

And it's very
frustrating, and it hurts.

I knew that because someone
sees something doesn't mean

they understand
what's happening.

Still, I would come to
question everything.

I took our daughter
Willa to the local park,

and she was standing,
looking at a tree.

And then I could see that
she was talking to the tree.

When we got back
from the park, she

was drawing with chalk in
the driveway, and she said,

I'm going to draw
you my other mother.

And I said, your other mother?

She said, yes, my other mother.

She was in the park.

I thought, I don't
know what's happening.

One day when Willa was
about 4, 5 years old,

we're driving to school.

She's sitting in the
backseat in her child seat,

and I'm blabbing to her
about her sandwiches

and her lunchbox.

She's looking out the window.

And all of a sudden, when
she turns to look at me,

and I can see her
in the rearview

mirror, and she just
looks different.

She's still the same child,
but her face looks older.

And she says, completely
out of the blue, Mother,

you must regain the
gifts you've been given.

She doesn't normally
call me mother.

At the time, Willa called
me mama and my husband papa.

But the word mother never
came out of her mouth except

in these instances,
where she seemed

to be somebody quite different.

And she looks back
out the window,

and I said, what does that mean.
What are you talking about?

And she looks back
at me, and she says,

what, as if that
came from nowhere.

She has no idea that this is
what she has just said to me,

and she didn't seem to
recall that in any way.

I didn't know what to say.

I was just sort of stunned.

She would say things
that was just totally

out of character with Willa.

You must regain the
gifts you've been given.

I don't know that
I was ever worried.

You know, anything
can happen with a kid.

First, I was concerned
about this whole shift.

I can't call it physical.

I mean, it's the same face.

But something in the whole
personality and the way that

she was speaking-- mother--

and the seriousness of this.

I did believe that Willa
was sending me a message

because there was an
awful lot going on.

When she was 2, I was
diagnosed with cancer.

The treatment took
approximately a year

between rounds of
chemotherapy, surgery,

and weeks of radiation.

I was just completely
tensed up as

if I had no control over my
life when, in fact, I really do.

They caught the cancer early.

And it had not
spread, so I was OK.

The message really helped
me, but I was curious.

I was a little unnerved.

I'm not going to say that I
thought that she was crazy.

I just felt like there were
things going on that I did not

understand.

I linked this with the
story that she told me

about her other mother, and
it became increasingly more

frightening to me
to think about all

of this happening right
there in front of me.

It makes you wonder, what is
going on with my daughter?

When Laurel would explain to
me what Willa had done or what

Willa had said, I just wasn't
sure what to make of it just

because this is what you
perceive to be going on isn't.

Nothing very unusual
happened for a long time.

And then when Willa got older,
she came to my husband and I

and told us that she
was seeing things.

I would hear Willa
move from her bedroom

to maybe use the
bathroom at night

and hear her say, stop it.

She told me that these two
little girls, literally, who

were ghosts, were actually
playing, going boo.

Whether you believe
in ghosts or not,

this is a very, very
frightening thing

for a parent to have to face.

I didn't know what I
could do to help her.

Our son Luke started
communicating at a very young

age.

But when he first started saying
that he was a woman named Pam,

we didn't really
know what to think.

It was Valentine's Day, and
we were hanging decorations.

I asked him what we should
name one of the owls,

and he said Pam.

Who's Pam?

And he looks right at
me, and he says, I was.

And then I died.

And I went up to heaven.

God pushed me back down.

And when I woke
up, I was a baby.

And you named me Luke.

He was just staring over like
in complete disbelief too.

I was
definitely concerned.

Didn't know what to think.

That's the fact.

I mean, that's what he said.

First of all, I was
floored by the fact

that he even knew
what death was.

This is a family that hasn't
really introduced religion,

formal religion,
to these children.

I called my mom,
and I said, hey,

you're not going to
believe what just happened.

Luke just said--

Pam was me once.

Really.

God threw me back down, and my--

my new mom made me Luke.

This was the most
incredible thing

that came out of his mouth
as far as I'm concerned.

Here was a child who, one, had
no insight as to what death was

even about and, two, had no
insight of heaven or God.

She's the first one that said
maybe it's like a reincarnation

sort of thing, or
maybe it's a past life.

And I was kind of,
at first, like, Mom,

don't go there with me.

Erika and Nick
like to approach things

from a scientific end.

They really weren't all
that open to the past life

experience.

It is very hard for them to
wrap their mind around things

unless we can back it
up with scientific fact.

I don't really know what
I feel about reincarnation.

I guess I'm kind of still
indifferent on reincarnation.

I really didn't do
anything about it.

For almost a year, I quit
asking him questions.

I quit bringing
it up around him.

I didn't want to put
an idea in his head

that wasn't already there, so
I was cautious to even bring it

up.

After that, I didn't really
want to ask him about it

anymore because he kind of
seemed like he didn't want

to talk about it.

So I wasn't going
to talk about it.

Luke was 4, and
we were watching TV.

And it was something
about a bombing.

And a picture came
up with a building,

and it had a hole
blown in the side.

And Luke said, I don't
want to watch this anymore.

I don't want to
watch it anymore.

This is-- this is scaring me.

And I said, OK.

I mean, we don't
have to watch it.

But it's OK.

You know, all the people that
are on the show are alive.

Like, it's not real.

And he looked at me, and
he said, yeah, but I died.

And I don't like
to think about it.

It makes me sad.

I said, do you
remember how you died?

And he said, yeah.

It was a fire.

Well, my first reaction was, are
you sure you're not saying that

just because you
saw all that on TV,

and you're trying
to make something up

or play a game with me?

And he looked at me really
seriously, and he said, no.

Mom, that building was blown up.

It had a hole in the side.

It wasn't like that at all.

It was a fire.

He's like, it was a
big building like that,

but it didn't get blown up.

It burned down.

And at the time, he kind
of made a hand motion that

went like this, and
he balled up his fist

and then made a motion like
he was jumping out or off

of the building.

The building--
it's really tall.

I-- we just opened the
window, then jumped out.

I started thinking that
maybe it did have something

to do with reincarnation.

It really disturbed me to the
point I couldn't let it go.

Our 4-year-old son
Luke was convinced

that he used to be a woman
named Pam who died in a fire.

At that time, was a little
shocked at how adamant he was

and how descriptive he was.

We just opened the
window, then jumped out.

I am not really
sure, even after all

of this, what I believe.

I would say now, after
this whole experience,

I'm leaning more towards
believing that it could

be a reincarnation.

But it's still really,
really mind-blowing to me.

Even with everything,
I still don't know.

So I said, well, do you
remember where it was.

And he said Chicago.

How do you know that?

Where did you get that?

And I was like, are you sure?

And he was like, I'm
sure, Mom, I'm sure.

My brain's working
really well right now.

I know it's Chicago.

I had asked him if he
remembered ever driving a car

or driving anywhere.

And he told me, no, I
didn't really take cars.

And I was like, well,
how do you get around.

Well, I would just
mostly walk or--

and then you could see him
think about it for a minute--

sometimes take a train or a bus.

So remembering that and then
putting that with Chicago

made me think, OK, maybe
there's some truth to this.

I've never doubted Luke.

He was actually telling us
something that he really wasn't

able to comprehend himself.

I thought to
myself, I have a name--

Pam.

I have a city--

Chicago.

And I have a means of
death, which is by fire.

So I figured, you know,
Chicago's a big city.

If there was a fire
somewhat recently

where somebody
named Pam died, I'd

be able to find
some record of it.

So I sat down, and I
started doing some research

on the internet.

As I kept finding more
and more things that fit,

I started feeling a
little sick to my stomach.

And then I started to
get a little scared.

It took a lot of research
to find the answers.

And what I found
was heartbreaking.

At a young
age, our daughter Willa

started talking about
her other mother.

She told us that she
was seeing things.

I would hear Willa
move from her bedroom

to maybe use the
bathroom at night

and hear her say, stop it.

She told me that these two
little girls, literally, who

were ghosts, were actually
playing, going boo.

I don't think I ever felt
that she was making it up

to get attention.

It wouldn't be the
kind of attention

that a child would want.

These reports that she
gave me of seeing ghosts--

they were very
disturbing to her.

And then, as she got
a little bit older,

she started having memories.

It was difficult for Willa
because she couldn't block them

out.

She lost a lot of sleep.

She was nervous.

She was sometimes frightened.

For a mother to watch
her child being petrified

and abused, not by some child
that I could have a talk with

or an adult that I could
have conversation with,

but something unseen--

who could we talk to about this?

Are people going to
think she's crazy?

We went to see a
counselor at one point,

but it was a period
in Willa's life

where she felt that she
was totally different

from other kids.

She looked at the world
differently from them.

She felt that sometimes they
were very young for her.

Willa was always
sort of the odd kid out,

and she has never really fit in.

I think she was very lonely.

It is very, very
hard to be a parent

and see that your child
is different from all

of the children around
her and knows it.

And it's also very hard to see
that something is happening

to her, and there's
nothing you can do to help.

Willa was around
8 or 9 years old

when she first asked me about
kids being sent out West.

I asked her, oh, is this
something you're studying

in school.

And she said no.

She began asking
questions, mostly of Bill,

about orphans and about wagons
and about orphans on wagons,

children being sent places.

You'd get one question and
nothing for a while and then

another question and
then nothing for a while.

I became concerned.

Well, I was at a loss.

I simply didn't know
what was going on.

She went
through a phase when

she was, you know, in like fifth
and sixth and seventh grade,

where it was really kind
of a dark period for her.

She was withdrawn.

She was angry.

But it wasn't because she wasn't
part of this popular group

or couldn't do this
particular activity.

It was more like, where do I
fit in this world where we have

the living and
the dead together?

As a parent, I felt helpless.

There was nothing
that I could do.

I might be her
mother in this life,

but that doesn't mean that I can
help her with the other aspects

to some other life.

This is a time period where
she had been dark and nervous

and feeling like an outcast
and not fitting in anywhere,

so school was a place where
Willa suffered a great deal.

So it's ironic that it's also
a place where she finally

found answers.

She came home, but
she was so excited.

And she said, I'm not crazy.

I'm not crazy.

And I said, what, what?

And she said the orphan
train-- orphan train.

There was an orphan train.

And she was putting
it all together.

She suddenly realized that
some of the things that she had

begun glimpsing had
a basis in reality.

It wasn't a dream.

It wasn't craziness.

And these were things that were
beginning to come back to her.

She actually said, I--

I think I was on that train.

I became concerned.

She seemed to be developing more
and more memory of something

that I wasn't sure existed.

Our daughter Willa came
home, and she was so excited.

And she said, I'm not crazy.

I'm not crazy.

The relief that she
felt was so clear.

I mean, she was so
excited and so happy,

which was unusual
for her at the time.

Then she said, orphan train.

There was an orphan train.

She suddenly realized that
some of the things that she had

begun glimpsing had
a basis in reality.

When you realize that your
child has been walking

through her life afraid,
petrified that she is crazy,

and you don't even realize that
about her, it's heartbreaking.

When she first started
asking about the orphan train,

I just didn't know for
sure what was going on.

At the time, I knew
that the orphan train existed.

Somewhere in some
history lesson someplace,

I knew that they had sent
children out to be adopted.

Beyond that, I really had no
other information about it.

She told us that
in class, they had

talked about the orphan train
as part of their history lesson.

The orphan train was set up
in the 1800-- middle-1800s--

and it took children,
mostly from the East Coast,

put them on trains,
and sent them out.

This was a deliberate
move to take orphans out

of the major East Coast
cities and send them out

to the Midwest, where they could
be adopted or at least taken

in by families.

Some of the kids had wonderful
lives when this happened.

There were other kids working,
essentially, as chattel slaves.

I didn't think
about this as a past life

until she began to
say that herself.

It's not that I
didn't suspect, maybe,

that there might
be something there,

but I don't think that
I put it all together.

It didn't come together
until she actually said, I--

I think I was on that train.

I really just didn't
know what to make of it.

I didn't think
she was making up a story.

There's no reason for
me not to believe her.

She has come up with some
descriptions of herself--

a flower dress, but the
print isn't too big,

and it isn't too small.

And she was young.

She remembers looking up
at the man and the woman

that she thinks adopted her.

She remembered something
about the station

and what it looked like.

She's had memories of a very
blonde boy who was also adopted

at the same time she was,
but he left in a wagon.

He'd become her closest friend,
almost like a brother to her,

on this trip.

And she thinks that that's the
reason why she kept thinking

about the orphan wagon.

She remembered there
were hills, low hills.

She just started to open up.

I think learning about
the orphan train at school

was a turning point for her.

We did a little research and
discovered there is actually

an orphan train museum.

And it's in Concordia, Kansas,
where they have attempted

to gather as many
records as possible

about the orphan train.

We have arranged to have Willa
do some research there to see

if she can find out
anything more concrete

about that past life of hers.

I'm so excited
that I'll actually

be able to go to the
orphan train museum.

I think it would be a good
thing for Willa to go out.

She's really interested.

She remembers the house
that she was taken to,

and she hopes that there might
be a picture of that and maybe

even a picture of a kid
that she recognizes.

I feel like I'm having a
rare opportunity to go and see

a tangible piece of my past.

And we'll see if we can find
anything really significant.

Our 4-year-old son Luke
had memories of being a woman

and dying in a fire.

I felt like it was
my responsibility

to find something out
that could help him.

I first decided to do some
research once Luke had given me

a city, a name, and
a means of death.

I figured if there was some
kind of a fire in Chicago,

and there were casualties,
that there'd have

to be some kind of a record.

So I decided to do a
little bit of research

on the internet to
see what I could find.

The first thing that I found was
all on the Great Chicago Fire,

or the Great Fire of Chicago.

And I found out that there
was one remaining structure

from that fire, which
was a water tower.

I found a picture of it,
and I showed it to Luke.

And I said, Luke, does this
water tower mean anything

to you.

And he said no, no.

So I kind of just figured, you
know, that was a wrong lead.

And I went back, and
I kept looking more.

Well, I thought, Pam, you
know, is a short name.

So I searched Pamela,
Chicago, and fire,

and I actually got a hit.

What I found was
in March of 1993,

there was a fire that was
called the Paxton Hotel Fire.

The fire was massive.

And when the fire department
first arrived at the fire,

they found people hanging
outside of the windows and off

of the roof of the building.

They had to call in a specialist
to identify the bodies.

The original
newspaper articles all

stated that at least one
woman had jumped to her death.

And the woman was named Pamela.

When she found the details
of who Luke may have been,

I thought it was a
possibility, but I didn't

put too much weight on it.

So I took it
a little further,

and I researched
the part of town

that the funeral was listed,
where the funeral home was,

because I figured that
was probably maybe

where her hometown was.

It was a place called
Maywood, Illinois.

As I read further
on about Maywood,

I figured out that it was a
predominantly African-American

part of town.

I never even thought to ask
Luke what color his skin was.

Of course, he had told me many
times that his hair was black,

but I just-- it
didn't cross my mind.

I don't know.

I mean, it's hard enough to
think of being another person,

let alone like another sex and
then add another race to it.

It just-- I don't know why.

It didn't cross my mind.

So that night when I was putting
Luke to bed, I casually said,

what color was Pam's skin?

And he said, black,
like he didn't even

have to think about it.

And I was like, oh, OK.

Another thing fits here.

And it was really
creeping me out

that here I had a story that
was lining up with everything

that Luke had told me.

When Nick got home that night, I
was very hesitant to tell him--

like, this is going
to really upset him,

or I don't know how
he's going to take it.

But I went ahead and told him.

And his first reaction
was, you're crazy.

When she found the details
of who Luke may have been,

I kind of just blew it off.

I didn't really think too
much about the details.

I had to keep showing him
how many things lined up.

I'm like, every single
thing that lines up.

And compared with the fact
that I had never asked him

what her race was, that was kind
of like the icing on my cake.

I found a few pictures
that I believe are of Pam.

And I think that I'm going to
go ahead and show them to Luke

to see his reaction either way.

I feel like showing
Luke pictures of Pam

would be able to put the
pieces together for me.

But there always could
be more evidence.

Showing pictures
to Luke will--

yeah.

How do I feel about that?

I kind of feel that he won't--

nothing will happen.

But it's probably 99.9% likely
that he will have no idea who

that person is.

I don't know
what he's going to say.

My name is Willa,
and I'm 18 years old.

I first started having
memories of the orphan train

when I was quite young.

I do remember having
the same dream

over and over of the little boy.

I'd remember me being a
little girl in the dress.

I'd remember getting
off the train

and seeing him taken
away to another family.

And I remember my family.

And I even started
remembering my name.

I believe my name was Anna.

This place looks almost exactly
like where I remember getting

off the train.

This is going to be
very interesting.

I want to learn as
much about my past life

as I can because it's
still part of me.

All of those memories,
all of the things I did,

all those experiences--

they are a part of who I am.

Even if I don't find any
definitive records of Anna,

I'll still be able to just
see the other children who

were like me.

And I really am ready.

Is there anything you want to
tell me about your experience,

your memories?

I remember a lot of the kids
had already been adopted off

the train, so I would have been
in one of the later states--

Kansas or Nebraska.

I would be about
8 to 10 at most.

And I believe my name was Anna.

This is a
list of all the Annas

that we have files on.

OK.

And if there's any names
that jump out at you at all.

It had an R somewhere in it.

Can we look at her?

Anna Ruth.

OK.

Let me see if I have
a file here on her.

It could have been an Anna
Reed, too, but there's an R.

So I was able to find
limited information here.

Anna Reed-- all we have is
that she was placed in Kansas.

Unfortunately, I don't think
there's any pictures in here.

But there is limited information
about Anna in this file

if you'd like to
go through that.

All right.

I wasn't able to pinpoint
exactly which Anna I was.

I mean, there's a
lot of missing files.

And I can make up a list for
you of the towns they stopped

in Kansas, and we can start
researching the newspapers

during those time periods to
see if there's any names you--

jump out at you.

I think I'm much
closer to finding my Anna.

Seeing everything-- seeing
the suitcases, the dresses,

the pictures, the trains--

it brought everything
from a memory

to the very front of my mind.

I have real places to start now.

I have the orphanage.

I have the general area
and the general time.

And I think with that, I have
enough of a starting point

that I can go out
there and find my Anna.

A few months ago, I was
diagnosed with breast cancer.

And, obviously, I'm
now in the process

of being treated for that with
chemotherapy after surgery.

After 17 years of
being clear of cancer,

to be diagnosed with
breast cancer again really

just knocked me flat.

When I was diagnosed
with cancer 17 years ago,

all I could think about was
that I was going to die.

But I don't think about
it the same way anymore.

I don't think it's the end
because it's not the end.

I have a child who was found
by her previous mother.

What it makes me realize is
that you don't lose contact

with the people you love.

I believe that you can continue
to find those people who have

been important to you over
the course of your life

in another lifetime and another
lifetime and another lifetime.

It's not nearly as frightening
to me as the first time around.

Contrary to what a
lot of people would say,

I don't think you
can prove there is

or there isn't continuation.

But just that thought that
the family can go on even

after death--

it makes you feel good.

The prognosis
is very good for her,

but I have this feeling that if
something were to happen that I

wouldn't really lose her.

She'd still be there even if
it wasn't in a physical state.

From the time that my
son Luke was 2 years old,

he remembered being a woman
named Pam who died in a fire.

Once I had identified Pam as a
real person who actually died

in a fire, I didn't
really know what

to do with that information.

I found a few pictures
that I believe are of Pam,

and I think that I'm going to
go ahead and show them to Luke

to see his reaction either way.

Whether or not we have the
right Pam, if there is a Pam,

it still leaves me with a lot
of questions as to who Pam was

and what happened.

I feel like knowing for
myself would let me help him

with these bad memories
that he actually does have.

You want to look
at these pictures?

Yeah.

Do you know who
any of those people are?

When we were looking
at the pictures,

I knew which one was Pam.

The rest of the
images were not Pam.

If you think you know
any of those people

or if any of those
people look familiar--

Looks familiar maybe.

Like you know
them from somewhere.

You've seen them before.

You know what?

I know someone I can recognize.

It's of Pam.

And he looked right
at the correct picture.

He said he recognized that one
and that he remembered it being

taken.

But it was the other time.

It was the other time?

Yeah.

It was pretty powerful
that he picked out the picture.

Can't really explain it.

So I don't really know.

Kind of bewildered.

I don't-- [laughs] Um.

I don't really
know what to think.

I guess it does make
me, you know, strengthen

the possibility that maybe
we found the right Pam.

Well, go upstairs and play.

I love you, OK?

Upstairs and play?

Yeah.
I love you.

I love you.

It's important to me
that Luke understands that he

doesn't have to worry about
fires around every corner

or, you know, dangerous things.

He does have another
chance now as Luke.

I feel like I'll be able to
help him more with his questions

in the future knowing that
I know what happened now,

and it's not just something
that he has to deal with alone.