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As a journalist, you are
consumed by two questions constantly:
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how to tell a story,
but perhaps more crucially,
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00:00:25,654 --> 00:00:27,654
why to tell a story.
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00:00:28,853 --> 00:00:30,873
Imagine a country.
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Nice weather. Let's give it nice weather.
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Nice weather for England, anyway.
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Imagine the people in this country
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believe they are living in a democracy.
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Believe in their own freedom.
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But they are being abused
by a power so everyday
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they don't know to look for it.
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A treacherous combination of press,
the police, and politicians,
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00:00:53,648 --> 00:00:55,648
that hide in plain sight.
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Imagine a country
where that concealment was...
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Imagine a country where...
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where the news organisations...
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Shit!
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Imagine it all deleted.
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Florid nonsense.
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My name is Nick Davies.
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I am a journalist,
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and this is a story that ends
in seven major police investigations,
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nearly 40 convictions,
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and some of the most
powerful people in this country
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being brought to their knees.
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Too grand, too grand, too grand.
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My name is Nick Davies.
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I'm a journalist.
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00:01:38,511 --> 00:01:40,331
Good morning. I'll just check in.
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This all started with Stuart Kuttner.
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Hello.
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No.
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This is the most troubling story
I've ever written.
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A story about the abuse of power
and the concealment of truth.
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00:02:00,187 --> 00:02:02,726
Hi. Nick Davies for the Today programme.
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00:02:02,826 --> 00:02:04,826
I'm late.
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00:02:12,384 --> 00:02:15,563
British journalism is sloppy
and morally bankrupt.
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00:02:15,663 --> 00:02:19,043
That is the claim of the journalist
Nick Davies, who's written a book
39
00:02:19,143 --> 00:02:22,122
that shows how often
newspapers use illegal methods
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00:02:22,222 --> 00:02:23,482
for getting their stories.
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00:02:23,582 --> 00:02:27,241
It's called Flat Earth News,
and Nick Davies joins us now.
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00:02:27,341 --> 00:02:28,841
- Good morning.
- Hi.
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00:02:28,941 --> 00:02:32,960
You say "sloppy"
because newspapers use press releases
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rather than getting their own stories
45
00:02:34,739 --> 00:02:38,479
and "morally bankrupt"
because of the illegality involved.
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00:02:38,579 --> 00:02:41,918
Really, the root that binds together
all the different themes
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00:02:42,018 --> 00:02:43,718
is that the logic of journalism
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has been overwhelmed by
the logic of commercialism.
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Journalists no longer have
the time or the resources
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00:02:49,376 --> 00:02:50,316
to do their jobs properly.
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00:02:50,416 --> 00:02:52,636
Instead, they're just passive processors
52
00:02:52,736 --> 00:02:55,035
of unchecked, second-hand material.
53
00:02:55,135 --> 00:02:57,835
Okay, but you... You also... You go
much further in suggesting that
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00:02:57,935 --> 00:03:00,714
- there has been criminality involved.
- Sure.
55
00:03:00,814 --> 00:03:03,313
And that's generally accepted
within the press.
56
00:03:03,413 --> 00:03:06,593
Okay. So, principally, that involves
hiring private investigators.
57
00:03:06,693 --> 00:03:09,592
They hire private investigators
to get your bank statements,
58
00:03:09,692 --> 00:03:12,552
your credit card statements,
your itemised phone bills,
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00:03:12,652 --> 00:03:13,711
your tax records,
60
00:03:13,811 --> 00:03:15,791
even your health records
these creatures are getting.
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All of that is illegal.
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00:03:16,931 --> 00:03:18,630
Okay. We're joined by John Mullin,
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00:03:18,730 --> 00:03:20,950
who is the editor
of The Independent on Sunday,
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00:03:21,050 --> 00:03:22,230
and Stuart Kuttner,
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00:03:22,330 --> 00:03:24,389
who's managing editor
of News of the World.
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John Mullin, do you recognise this?
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Well, I ploughed my way
through the first half of the book,
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not the second half so far,
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00:03:33,607 --> 00:03:36,147
and no one can deny
that life in journalism
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00:03:36,247 --> 00:03:39,866
is much harder than maybe
it was 20, 30 years ago.
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00:03:39,966 --> 00:03:45,065
But to say that journalism as a whole
is a passive processor of news?
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00:03:45,165 --> 00:03:47,624
- I think that's erroneous.
- Stuart Kuttner?
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Yes, I'll tell you what I think.
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00:03:49,804 --> 00:03:53,583
I think, frankly,
listening to Nick Davies,
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I thought he was speaking
from a newsroom on another planet.
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00:03:57,282 --> 00:04:00,022
It is totally unrecognisable to me.
77
00:04:00,122 --> 00:04:03,021
Many years in newspapers in Fleet Street.
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00:04:03,121 --> 00:04:05,101
Now, of course, at the News of the World.
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00:04:05,201 --> 00:04:07,600
But what did he say that was so wrong?
80
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,699
Well, he talks about, if you like,
shortcuts, PR interests,
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00:04:13,799 --> 00:04:14,939
commercial interest.
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I have to tell you, none of
my News of the World journalists
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00:04:18,398 --> 00:04:20,178
would recognise that at all.
84
00:04:20,278 --> 00:04:22,617
But what about the way
these people get the stories
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00:04:22,717 --> 00:04:25,856
and access to personal information?
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00:04:25,956 --> 00:04:29,816
Well, if it happens,
it... it shouldn't happen.
87
00:04:29,916 --> 00:04:32,255
It happened once
at the News of the World.
88
00:04:32,355 --> 00:04:33,895
The reporter was fired,
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he went to prison, the editor resigned.
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00:04:36,954 --> 00:04:39,454
And while Nick is talking about all this,
91
00:04:39,554 --> 00:04:43,253
I notice he doesn't mention
The Guardian's own act of criminality
92
00:04:43,353 --> 00:04:45,212
when The Guardian forged
93
00:04:45,312 --> 00:04:47,172
the signature of a cabinet minister...
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00:04:47,272 --> 00:04:49,331
Okay, I-I-I don't want to
go into details of the story.
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00:04:49,431 --> 00:04:50,491
I think the charge that Nick Davies...
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00:04:50,591 --> 00:04:52,371
Sarah,
you may not want to go into detail,
97
00:04:52,471 --> 00:04:56,610
but Nick makes a broad-brush,
sweeping attack on our profession,
98
00:04:56,710 --> 00:04:59,529
which I happen to believe
is an honourable profession.
99
00:05:07,028 --> 00:05:07,968
Hello, Mr...
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00:05:14,586 --> 00:05:15,526
You hear it?
101
00:05:15,626 --> 00:05:17,126
I wish I hadn't.
102
00:05:18,785 --> 00:05:20,325
You're too kind.
103
00:05:20,425 --> 00:05:23,764
I did say, appearing on the Today
programme to attack journalism
104
00:05:23,864 --> 00:05:25,964
wasn't exactly the most sensible idea.
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00:05:26,064 --> 00:05:28,283
Listen, before I go home, I wanted
to talk to you about something.
106
00:05:28,383 --> 00:05:30,843
Good thing was, you weren't
representing The Guardian.
107
00:05:30,943 --> 00:05:33,162
You were talking about your book.
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00:05:33,262 --> 00:05:34,442
My book.
109
00:05:34,542 --> 00:05:37,721
Although, Kuttner did have a good go
at trying to besmirch us through you.
110
00:05:37,821 --> 00:05:39,961
I want out.
111
00:05:40,061 --> 00:05:44,080
Do you know anything
about baking competitions?
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00:05:44,180 --> 00:05:45,120
No.
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I want to know how many people
cheat at baking competitions.
114
00:05:49,379 --> 00:05:50,319
A round number.
115
00:05:50,419 --> 00:05:53,438
Sounds like exactly the sort of thing
the Guardian should be investigating.
116
00:05:53,538 --> 00:05:54,918
I don't mean out altogether.
117
00:05:55,018 --> 00:05:56,278
I'd like to go to Brussels,
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investigate a whole new horizon,
something well paid.
119
00:05:58,457 --> 00:05:59,957
- Naturally.
- That will allow me to commute.
120
00:06:00,057 --> 00:06:01,796
The kids are old enough now
to be able to...
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00:06:01,896 --> 00:06:03,896
I need you here.
122
00:06:06,895 --> 00:06:08,835
Sadiq Khan. Bugged.
123
00:06:08,935 --> 00:06:10,675
Forty-year convention breached.
124
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And why? Keep the Americans happy.
125
00:06:13,494 --> 00:06:15,074
Needs a good journalist.
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00:06:15,174 --> 00:06:16,753
Alan, I'm knackered.
Nobody likes me. I know.
127
00:06:16,853 --> 00:06:20,533
Oh, come on.
I like you... some of the time.
128
00:06:21,772 --> 00:06:24,112
And I'm sure there are
a few others who-who also...
129
00:06:24,212 --> 00:06:25,871
Please.
130
00:06:25,971 --> 00:06:29,711
Self-pity is not a redeeming quality.
We'll talk tomorrow.
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00:06:29,811 --> 00:06:33,270
I'm freelance precisely so that
I don't need to talk to you tomorrow.
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00:06:33,370 --> 00:06:36,669
You're freelance
with more or less a sole employer.
133
00:06:36,769 --> 00:06:38,869
I say you should talk to me tomorrow.
134
00:06:38,969 --> 00:06:40,308
Hmm?
135
00:06:40,408 --> 00:06:41,988
We've all been roasted
by Stuart bloody Kuttner.
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Bye.
137
00:06:50,486 --> 00:06:53,426
Let me explain. Alan is, um...
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00:06:53,526 --> 00:06:56,265
Well, we grew up together.
In journalism, that is.
139
00:06:56,365 --> 00:06:58,665
And he's always understood... Sorry.
140
00:06:58,765 --> 00:07:01,184
- Yep.
- Nick Davies?
141
00:07:01,284 --> 00:07:02,384
Who's this?
142
00:07:02,484 --> 00:07:03,504
My name is...
143
00:07:03,604 --> 00:07:05,783
Redacted, sorry.
144
00:07:05,883 --> 00:07:07,783
We'll call him Mr Apollo, because...
145
00:07:07,883 --> 00:07:10,622
Um, well, actually, because he's...
146
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It-It doesn't matter.
147
00:07:12,402 --> 00:07:13,981
How did you get this number?
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00:07:14,081 --> 00:07:16,061
Listen, Kuttner made a mistake.
149
00:07:16,161 --> 00:07:17,101
Well, I made several.
150
00:07:17,201 --> 00:07:19,980
Chief amongst them
appearing on the Today programme.
151
00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:21,940
He said it happened once.
152
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:23,260
It happened once.
153
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,259
It happened once
at the News of the World.
154
00:07:25,359 --> 00:07:27,019
The reporter was fired,
155
00:07:27,119 --> 00:07:29,938
he went to prison, the editor resigned.
156
00:07:30,038 --> 00:07:32,258
You're talking about phone hacking.
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00:07:32,358 --> 00:07:34,817
Nick, your book
only scratched the surface.
158
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We have to meet face to face,
somewhere absolutely discreet.
159
00:07:39,276 --> 00:07:41,176
I think you'll like what I have.
160
00:07:41,276 --> 00:07:43,295
Where and when?
161
00:07:43,395 --> 00:07:45,415
In the beginning, it was next to nothing.
162
00:07:45,515 --> 00:07:49,014
Two men were arrested
for hacking phones in 2006:
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a private investigator, Glenn Mulcaire...
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00:07:51,194 --> 00:07:54,453
And the royal editor of
the News of the World, Clive Goodman.
165
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The sentences they received were short.
166
00:07:58,192 --> 00:08:00,272
The attention they got, limited.
But the crime was unusual.
167
00:08:01,392 --> 00:08:06,011
They had discovered they could access
other people's voicemail messages,
168
00:08:06,111 --> 00:08:10,410
and they spent months eavesdropping
on three of Prince William's staff
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at Clarence House.
170
00:08:12,029 --> 00:08:14,009
How? They didn't say.
171
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Why? For the discovery
of private information.
172
00:08:20,708 --> 00:08:23,067
It was the start of the next
six years of my life.
173
00:08:37,704 --> 00:08:41,283
To be clear, I've never
told anyone who Mr Apollo is.
174
00:08:41,383 --> 00:08:43,383
So some guesses have been made.
175
00:08:46,022 --> 00:08:48,022
Bad guess.
176
00:08:52,821 --> 00:08:54,721
No.
177
00:08:57,940 --> 00:09:00,059
No. I'm sorry. It's not you.
178
00:09:01,499 --> 00:09:03,499
Okay.
179
00:09:04,339 --> 00:09:06,338
Oh, come on.
180
00:09:12,457 --> 00:09:13,757
Hi.
181
00:09:13,857 --> 00:09:17,056
- You coming in, or...?
- Sure.
182
00:09:20,935 --> 00:09:22,715
Wow, this is nice.
183
00:09:25,574 --> 00:09:27,574
Nice choice of room.
184
00:09:28,774 --> 00:09:30,113
Just to check. Is The Guardian paying?
185
00:09:30,213 --> 00:09:33,433
Because if so, I'd implore you
to stay away from that mini bar.
186
00:09:33,533 --> 00:09:35,272
Mulcaire, in the trial,
187
00:09:35,372 --> 00:09:37,712
- he said he'd hacked other...
- Five non-royals.
188
00:09:37,812 --> 00:09:43,890
I remember. Yes. Um, Elle Macpherson,
Sky Andrew, Max Clifford...
189
00:09:45,010 --> 00:09:46,670
He's a liar.
190
00:09:46,770 --> 00:09:50,089
Kuttner is a liar,
and one of the five is suing them.
191
00:09:52,209 --> 00:09:54,208
Which one?
192
00:09:54,568 --> 00:09:56,608
Well, that five is just
the tip of the iceberg.
193
00:09:58,287 --> 00:10:01,707
Hacking phones at the
News of the World has been endemic.
194
00:10:01,807 --> 00:10:02,746
Endemic?
195
00:10:02,846 --> 00:10:05,026
Mm.
196
00:10:05,126 --> 00:10:08,025
They pick up their leads
by intercepting voicemails,
197
00:10:08,125 --> 00:10:11,065
and only then do they get
photographs and quotes
198
00:10:11,165 --> 00:10:12,784
so as to lay a false trail.
199
00:10:12,884 --> 00:10:15,584
To pretend they found the story
through legitimate means.
200
00:10:15,684 --> 00:10:17,683
They've hacked thousands.
201
00:10:18,083 --> 00:10:20,443
Here. Dial a number.
202
00:10:21,443 --> 00:10:23,442
Someone who's likely to not answer.
203
00:10:30,441 --> 00:10:31,780
This is Alan Rusbridger. Please leave...
204
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:33,540
That's your phone-a-friend?
205
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,640
The editor of The Guardian?
206
00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,099
Press nine.
207
00:10:38,199 --> 00:10:39,459
Please enter your 4-digit PIN.
208
00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,059
Now enter one, two, three, four.
209
00:10:41,159 --> 00:10:42,538
That's the factory setting.
210
00:10:43,758 --> 00:10:45,698
Welcome to your voicemail.
211
00:10:45,798 --> 00:10:48,217
You have one new message.
212
00:10:48,317 --> 00:10:50,097
Alan, it's Mummy.
213
00:10:50,197 --> 00:10:51,456
I'm just calling about Jill Wyatt.
214
00:10:51,556 --> 00:10:53,816
She won best sponge again,
and I'm sure she cheated...
215
00:10:53,916 --> 00:10:55,935
I don't wanna hear this.
216
00:10:56,035 --> 00:10:57,415
- It's that easy?
- Mm.
217
00:10:57,515 --> 00:10:59,895
It doesn't even need
a Glenn Mulcaire most of the time.
218
00:10:59,995 --> 00:11:01,934
And you're saying this was widespread?
219
00:11:02,034 --> 00:11:05,054
Glenn's main job was
that when it got tricky,
220
00:11:05,154 --> 00:11:06,853
unlike with your Alan,
221
00:11:06,953 --> 00:11:08,653
was to blag the mobile phone companies
222
00:11:08,753 --> 00:11:10,612
into resetting the celebrities' PIN codes
223
00:11:10,712 --> 00:11:12,572
to their original factory setting.
224
00:11:12,672 --> 00:11:14,132
One, two, three, four.
225
00:11:14,232 --> 00:11:16,451
That's Alan.
226
00:11:16,551 --> 00:11:18,811
- Please.
- Who is this?
227
00:11:18,911 --> 00:11:20,410
Hi. Yeah, it's Nick.
228
00:11:20,510 --> 00:11:22,850
Listen, change the voicemail
settings on your phone.
229
00:11:22,950 --> 00:11:24,490
And how do I do that?
230
00:11:24,590 --> 00:11:26,649
Ask a young person. I've got to go. Bye.
231
00:11:28,189 --> 00:11:29,129
Who is suing?
232
00:11:30,908 --> 00:11:34,128
The person who is, is currently
trying to get Scotland Yard
233
00:11:34,228 --> 00:11:37,287
to hand over evidence
they collected and did nothing with
234
00:11:37,387 --> 00:11:39,386
when they arrested Mulcaire.
235
00:11:40,226 --> 00:11:42,486
It's evidence that could...
236
00:11:42,586 --> 00:11:46,045
...burn, fuck and destroy everything.
Twice over.
237
00:11:46,145 --> 00:11:49,304
You won't tell me which one
of the five it is, will you?
238
00:11:51,944 --> 00:11:53,563
I will tell you
239
00:11:53,663 --> 00:11:55,663
that you're missing two names.
240
00:11:56,063 --> 00:11:58,402
Gordon Taylor and Simon Hughes.
241
00:11:58,502 --> 00:12:00,502
Will you go on the record?
242
00:12:02,902 --> 00:12:04,641
If you dig, it comes from you.
243
00:12:04,741 --> 00:12:08,500
I-I can... I can confirm things, but...
244
00:12:12,380 --> 00:12:15,119
It's just another story
of journos behaving badly.
245
00:12:15,219 --> 00:12:16,719
You're not interested.
246
00:12:16,819 --> 00:12:18,818
It's interesting, but...
247
00:12:19,178 --> 00:12:20,158
you should talk to someone else.
248
00:12:20,258 --> 00:12:21,918
Do you realise I could lose my job
just by talking to you?
249
00:12:22,018 --> 00:12:23,517
Don't worry.
This conversation never happened.
250
00:12:23,617 --> 00:12:25,837
No, no, no. That's not my point, Nick.
251
00:12:25,937 --> 00:12:28,576
You... Think. Think who edited the paper.
252
00:12:30,536 --> 00:12:32,535
Think about where he sits now.
253
00:12:34,655 --> 00:12:36,855
You're talking about Andy Coulson.
254
00:12:38,774 --> 00:12:40,774
Stop him.
255
00:12:41,534 --> 00:12:43,533
Shit.
256
00:12:47,532 --> 00:12:49,192
Mind the gap.
257
00:12:49,292 --> 00:12:51,072
Stand clear of the doors, please.
258
00:12:51,172 --> 00:12:53,951
Andy Coulson, a rapid ascent journalist.
259
00:12:54,051 --> 00:12:56,470
From a local reporter
to Showbiz at The Sun,
260
00:12:56,570 --> 00:12:59,630
he was made editor of
News of the World in 2003.
261
00:12:59,730 --> 00:13:03,469
Even after he resigned in 2007
over the original phone hacking case,
262
00:13:03,569 --> 00:13:04,589
it was seen as honourable,
263
00:13:04,689 --> 00:13:07,548
him carrying the can
for the one rogue reporter.
264
00:13:07,648 --> 00:13:09,848
Not me really, guv.
265
00:13:11,127 --> 00:13:13,127
But if he was... If he is...
266
00:13:13,527 --> 00:13:15,506
If this is endemic,
267
00:13:15,606 --> 00:13:18,346
he's David Cameron's
communications director.
268
00:13:18,446 --> 00:13:21,485
For him to be involved
in widespread criminality...
269
00:13:23,845 --> 00:13:25,844
No, no. Bad idea.
270
00:13:38,762 --> 00:13:39,741
I'm not late.
271
00:13:39,841 --> 00:13:41,781
It would be fine
if you were to be a bit late.
272
00:13:41,881 --> 00:13:43,021
You don't need to be so worried.
273
00:13:43,121 --> 00:13:44,101
Are they ready?
274
00:13:44,201 --> 00:13:46,200
- Are they ever ready?
- Kids?
275
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:48,140
You okay?
276
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:49,419
Kids?
277
00:13:49,519 --> 00:13:52,059
- Yes, coming.
- Ooh, you're anxious to go, then.
278
00:13:52,159 --> 00:13:53,939
Sorry. How are you, et cetera?
279
00:13:54,039 --> 00:13:56,178
I'm fine, et cetera. Are you all right?
280
00:13:56,278 --> 00:13:57,218
Never better.
281
00:13:57,318 --> 00:13:58,338
Really?
282
00:13:58,438 --> 00:13:59,497
I heard you on the radio.
283
00:13:59,597 --> 00:14:02,097
- Hmm.
- That sort of performance help sales?
284
00:14:02,197 --> 00:14:04,196
- Oh, I would doubt it.
- Mm.
285
00:14:05,556 --> 00:14:08,655
I'm, um... I am worried about...
286
00:14:08,755 --> 00:14:11,335
I'm not going to reveal my child's name.
287
00:14:11,435 --> 00:14:14,254
Let's call him... Beans.
288
00:14:14,354 --> 00:14:16,654
He comes home, locks himself in his room.
289
00:14:16,754 --> 00:14:20,293
- I have tried to talk to him, but...
- He avoids all questions.
290
00:14:20,393 --> 00:14:22,873
So, do we bring the school in?
291
00:14:25,512 --> 00:14:28,051
Let's get the details,
make sure he wants the help.
292
00:14:28,151 --> 00:14:30,151
Oh, you sound like a journalist.
293
00:14:30,951 --> 00:14:32,950
Let me try.
294
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:37,350
Let me try.
295
00:14:38,589 --> 00:14:40,589
Okay.
296
00:14:53,906 --> 00:14:55,006
Got a new recipe.
297
00:14:55,106 --> 00:14:57,645
- Okay, Dad.
- Stuffed tomato thing.
298
00:14:57,745 --> 00:14:58,805
Yeah, nice. Sounds good.
299
00:14:58,905 --> 00:15:00,565
I'll call you when it's ready.
It's Turkish.
300
00:15:00,665 --> 00:15:02,484
- Yep.
- So...
301
00:15:02,584 --> 00:15:04,584
I met someone today.
302
00:15:05,504 --> 00:15:06,443
A source.
303
00:15:06,543 --> 00:15:09,843
He was pissed off
with what Kuttner said on the radio.
304
00:15:09,943 --> 00:15:10,923
Okay.
305
00:15:11,023 --> 00:15:14,282
Hacking was "endemic", he said,
at News of the World.
306
00:15:14,382 --> 00:15:16,201
And someone is now suing Scotland Yard
307
00:15:16,301 --> 00:15:18,121
for information on what was hacked.
308
00:15:18,221 --> 00:15:22,640
Now, I know... I know it's one of
either Elle Macpherson, Simon Hughes,
309
00:15:22,740 --> 00:15:25,160
Gordon Taylor, Sky Andrew,
or Max Clifford.
310
00:15:25,260 --> 00:15:26,359
But I don't know which one.
311
00:15:26,459 --> 00:15:28,399
What do you think?
312
00:15:28,499 --> 00:15:30,159
Do I dig?
313
00:15:30,259 --> 00:15:33,078
Try to find out who it is?
If I find them, it might...
314
00:15:33,178 --> 00:15:34,318
We might get some evidence
315
00:15:34,418 --> 00:15:36,957
that proves foul play
was a bit more widespread.
316
00:15:37,057 --> 00:15:38,317
Imagine what it does to Andy Coulson.
317
00:15:38,417 --> 00:15:41,396
He's about to... He could soon have
keys to 10 Downing Street.
318
00:15:41,496 --> 00:15:43,356
Did Cameron even do
a fit-and-proper-person test on him?
319
00:15:43,456 --> 00:15:45,455
Did he even look into Coulson's past?
320
00:15:46,495 --> 00:15:51,314
It's a good angle, but another
"tabloids behaving badly" story?
321
00:15:51,414 --> 00:15:53,554
I said the same thing.
322
00:15:53,654 --> 00:15:56,313
And who wants to kick a bee's nest?
323
00:15:56,413 --> 00:15:58,433
Murdoch, you know?
324
00:15:58,533 --> 00:16:00,352
This source.
325
00:16:00,452 --> 00:16:02,792
Has he got under your skin?
326
00:16:02,892 --> 00:16:06,531
No. I just wanted to
talk it out with someone. You.
327
00:16:07,531 --> 00:16:11,830
Ah. Always grateful
to be your sounding board.
328
00:16:11,930 --> 00:16:13,930
Go home, Alan.
329
00:16:14,289 --> 00:16:15,669
Who says I'm in the office?
330
00:16:15,769 --> 00:16:18,089
We'll always have Brussels. Bye.
331
00:16:31,686 --> 00:16:35,025
It's creepy when you do that.
Stare at me like that.
332
00:16:35,125 --> 00:16:37,185
How are you?
333
00:16:37,285 --> 00:16:39,144
Why are you asking?
334
00:16:39,244 --> 00:16:41,104
If there ever is anything
you need to discuss...
335
00:16:41,204 --> 00:16:43,203
Yes, Dad. I know.
336
00:17:04,759 --> 00:17:07,458
I, um... I never much liked school.
337
00:17:07,558 --> 00:17:09,058
I'm not being bullied.
338
00:17:09,158 --> 00:17:10,858
I always saw school as a necessity...
339
00:17:10,958 --> 00:17:12,817
Why does everyone always
think I'm being bullied?
340
00:17:12,917 --> 00:17:14,917
...not a virtue. There was a guy...
341
00:17:15,997 --> 00:17:18,076
who-who-who used to hit us.
342
00:17:20,476 --> 00:17:21,975
Another kid?
343
00:17:22,075 --> 00:17:24,075
Actually, a teacher.
344
00:17:24,715 --> 00:17:26,534
He used to...
345
00:17:26,634 --> 00:17:27,854
God, he used to really scare me.
346
00:17:27,954 --> 00:17:29,954
I-I never used to do well.
347
00:17:30,274 --> 00:17:32,213
Um...
348
00:17:32,313 --> 00:17:34,213
Well, I never used to do well with fear,
349
00:17:34,313 --> 00:17:36,412
but also the thing
I remember most clearly:
350
00:17:36,512 --> 00:17:38,512
rage.
351
00:17:43,031 --> 00:17:45,031
I heard you on the radio.
352
00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:47,990
You listen to the Today programme?
353
00:17:48,910 --> 00:17:51,229
Mum makes us listen to
or read everything you do.
354
00:17:52,509 --> 00:17:55,029
"You've an impressive dad,"
and she says it like,
355
00:17:56,028 --> 00:17:58,648
"He may be a total dick,
but he's impressive."
356
00:17:58,748 --> 00:18:00,787
All right.
357
00:18:04,307 --> 00:18:06,566
You know the story of the dung beetle?
358
00:18:06,666 --> 00:18:08,366
God. Really, again?
359
00:18:08,466 --> 00:18:11,685
- If you want to fly free...
- First you have to eat a lot of shit.
360
00:18:11,785 --> 00:18:13,885
Sometimes you have to ignore bullies.
361
00:18:13,985 --> 00:18:16,164
- I'm not being bullied.
- Sometimes you have to puncture them.
362
00:18:16,264 --> 00:18:18,364
- I'm not, Dad,
- There's always a way to...
363
00:18:18,464 --> 00:18:20,243
There's always a chance...
When the wankers...
364
00:18:20,343 --> 00:18:22,083
when they suddenly seem vulnerable.
365
00:18:22,183 --> 00:18:24,322
When they are,
366
00:18:24,422 --> 00:18:28,082
you have to clamp your pincers
onto them as hard as possible.
367
00:18:28,182 --> 00:18:30,181
Do not let go.
368
00:18:37,220 --> 00:18:38,200
Tomatoes in the oven.
369
00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:40,299
Ready in ten. They're Turkish.
370
00:18:41,579 --> 00:18:43,578
I love you very much.
371
00:18:52,057 --> 00:18:54,056
You stupid child.
372
00:18:54,576 --> 00:18:57,416
You are such a disappointment.
373
00:19:04,334 --> 00:19:05,474
It won't surprise you to know
374
00:19:05,574 --> 00:19:08,213
we didn't get the rights
to use their masthead.
375
00:19:09,853 --> 00:19:11,853
Or this one.
376
00:19:23,010 --> 00:19:25,230
Hi, it's Nick Davies.
377
00:19:25,330 --> 00:19:27,749
You still have that contact
at Scotland Yard?
378
00:19:27,849 --> 00:19:29,269
No, sorry, mate.
379
00:19:29,369 --> 00:19:31,469
I really cannot be
getting involved with that one.
380
00:19:31,569 --> 00:19:32,508
You know how it is.
381
00:19:32,608 --> 00:19:35,708
But Andy Coulson will soon
be sitting in Downing Street.
382
00:19:35,808 --> 00:19:38,147
Yeah, and Murdoch's already
sitting on Downing Street.
383
00:19:38,247 --> 00:19:39,547
Yeah.
384
00:19:39,647 --> 00:19:40,587
Yes, I appreciate that.
385
00:19:40,687 --> 00:19:42,906
I understand.
If I could get some evidence of this.
386
00:19:43,006 --> 00:19:44,546
- No.
- No.
387
00:19:44,646 --> 00:19:47,025
- No.
- All right. Thanks. Bye.
388
00:19:52,364 --> 00:19:53,624
Oh, hi. Thanks for calling back.
389
00:19:53,724 --> 00:19:56,103
Do you have the number for...
Name redacted.
390
00:19:56,203 --> 00:19:59,063
- See you later.
- Yeah.
391
00:19:59,163 --> 00:20:01,162
Okay, great. Zero...
392
00:20:02,362 --> 00:20:07,581
seven, seven, zero, zero,
nine, zero, zero, nine,
393
00:20:07,681 --> 00:20:10,380
five, four. Got that.
394
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:11,860
Thank you.
395
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,260
Hi. I'm wondering whether
I could speak to
396
00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:16,359
whoever represents Elle Macpherson.
397
00:20:18,999 --> 00:20:19,978
No, no, I'm not a fan.
398
00:20:20,078 --> 00:20:21,258
No, I'm wondering whether
399
00:20:21,358 --> 00:20:23,858
she's currently suing
the News of the World.
400
00:20:23,958 --> 00:20:25,937
Is that Max?
401
00:20:26,037 --> 00:20:27,937
Hi, it's Nick Davies.
402
00:20:28,037 --> 00:20:30,216
We met at The Orwell Prize.
403
00:20:30,316 --> 00:20:32,316
I'm actually after a bit of insight.
404
00:20:33,276 --> 00:20:35,275
Well, no. Just give me a chance.
405
00:20:56,951 --> 00:20:58,730
Detective Buzz Aldrin?
406
00:20:58,830 --> 00:21:00,090
It's not his real name.
407
00:21:00,190 --> 00:21:01,170
My name is Nick Davies.
408
00:21:01,270 --> 00:21:02,410
I'm a Guardian journalist.
409
00:21:02,510 --> 00:21:03,788
I believe you were looking
into the Clive Goodman case?
410
00:21:03,789 --> 00:21:05,449
I'm very busy, Mr Davies.
411
00:21:05,549 --> 00:21:07,449
I've followed your work, Buzz.
I know how principled you are.
412
00:21:07,549 --> 00:21:10,568
I think you know that this...
that what is happening here
413
00:21:10,668 --> 00:21:12,967
is acutely in the public interest,
and if it's all dealt with
414
00:21:13,067 --> 00:21:14,367
in behind-stairs deals,
it'll help no one.
415
00:21:14,467 --> 00:21:15,407
I can't talk to journalists.
416
00:21:15,507 --> 00:21:17,247
You don't have to talk.
417
00:21:17,347 --> 00:21:19,646
All I need to know is which
of the five non-royal names
418
00:21:19,746 --> 00:21:21,806
in the Clive Goodman case
is now suing the paper.
419
00:21:21,906 --> 00:21:23,845
Cough.
420
00:21:23,945 --> 00:21:24,944
That's all I ask.
Cough when I hit the right name.
421
00:21:24,945 --> 00:21:26,045
You are very, very persistent.
422
00:21:26,145 --> 00:21:29,404
Because what I understand is that
those five names represent thousands,
423
00:21:29,504 --> 00:21:31,324
thousands of people who've had
424
00:21:31,424 --> 00:21:33,283
their privacy stolen by this newspaper.
425
00:21:33,383 --> 00:21:35,443
Please.
426
00:21:35,543 --> 00:21:38,022
Elle Macpherson, Simon Hughes,
427
00:21:39,502 --> 00:21:40,962
Gordon Taylor...
428
00:21:41,062 --> 00:21:43,381
Thank you.
429
00:21:44,981 --> 00:21:46,980
You did the right thing.
430
00:22:03,057 --> 00:22:04,957
Sorry, excuse me. Charlotte Harris!
431
00:22:05,057 --> 00:22:06,236
Nick Davies at The Guardian.
432
00:22:06,336 --> 00:22:07,636
I believe you represent Gordon Taylor.
433
00:22:07,736 --> 00:22:08,796
I'm due in court.
434
00:22:08,896 --> 00:22:11,955
I understand that he's suing News
of the World for breach of privacy.
435
00:22:12,055 --> 00:22:13,795
Mr Davies, whether or not
Mr Taylor is my client,
436
00:22:13,895 --> 00:22:16,034
I have no interest
in talking to any press. Sorry.
437
00:22:16,134 --> 00:22:21,113
These so-called journalists bring
our whole industry into disrepute.
438
00:22:21,213 --> 00:22:23,213
You're very persistent.
439
00:22:23,773 --> 00:22:28,072
Well, can you... can you tell me then
about John Hewison?
440
00:22:28,172 --> 00:22:30,311
He's also a claimant, is he not?
441
00:22:30,411 --> 00:22:32,751
And the interesting thing is,
if you ask the public
442
00:22:32,851 --> 00:22:34,591
who those two are,
they might know Taylor.
443
00:22:34,691 --> 00:22:37,310
They wouldn't know Hewison
because he's a lawyer.
444
00:22:37,410 --> 00:22:38,510
Like you.
445
00:22:38,610 --> 00:22:40,669
He's entrusted with
the secrets of others,
446
00:22:40,769 --> 00:22:43,029
in the secrets of sports stars
in his case...
447
00:22:43,129 --> 00:22:46,628
which makes him interesting
to the News of the World.
448
00:22:46,728 --> 00:22:48,468
This is a news operation,
449
00:22:48,568 --> 00:22:51,147
which is trying to undermine
the confidentiality
450
00:22:51,247 --> 00:22:53,627
that crucially underlies your profession.
451
00:22:53,727 --> 00:22:55,826
If you want to fight it,
452
00:22:55,926 --> 00:22:58,626
well, you're a tiger, but they're lions.
453
00:22:58,930 --> 00:23:00,929
The Guardian's a lion, too.
454
00:23:01,409 --> 00:23:04,228
Well, what if I'm neither
a lion nor a tiger?
455
00:23:04,328 --> 00:23:06,528
What if I am a walrus?
456
00:23:07,528 --> 00:23:09,527
Walruses can be fierce.
457
00:23:10,007 --> 00:23:11,387
And what if you're a...
458
00:23:11,487 --> 00:23:12,907
See, I'm trying to think
of an annoying animal.
459
00:23:13,007 --> 00:23:14,986
Has Mr Taylor settled?
460
00:23:15,086 --> 00:23:16,146
What evidence do you have?
461
00:23:16,246 --> 00:23:17,586
Are there other claimants?
462
00:23:17,686 --> 00:23:20,665
I'm sure you must... you must be
looking to engage more clients.
463
00:23:20,765 --> 00:23:23,664
Privacy cases like this can sometimes...
464
00:23:23,764 --> 00:23:24,904
What did Max Mosley get?
465
00:23:25,004 --> 00:23:27,784
Sixty thousand pounds, and costs.
Line enough up,
466
00:23:27,884 --> 00:23:30,543
you could have a class-action suit
worth a lot of money.
467
00:23:30,643 --> 00:23:34,042
You were doing well, reasonably well,
until you brought money into it.
468
00:23:35,322 --> 00:23:37,582
I can't talk to you about specific cases,
469
00:23:37,682 --> 00:23:39,681
but I can tell you...
470
00:23:40,041 --> 00:23:42,840
I can tell you that there is
so much more to come.
471
00:23:54,158 --> 00:23:57,137
- Yep.
- You've got the name.
472
00:23:57,237 --> 00:24:01,217
Mr Apollo, you're back.
Are you watching me?
473
00:24:01,317 --> 00:24:04,156
I take it you're
still interested in this case, then?
474
00:24:09,195 --> 00:24:11,934
The deer is in the fireplace.
The lion is alight.
475
00:24:12,034 --> 00:24:14,034
What the fuck are you doing?
476
00:24:14,394 --> 00:24:16,213
Sorry, I make...
I have a tendency to make jokes.
477
00:24:16,313 --> 00:24:18,353
I was trying to trying
to be a Russian spy.
478
00:24:20,113 --> 00:24:21,372
We could be spotted at any moment.
479
00:24:21,472 --> 00:24:23,752
- Do you know the risks?
- I do. Sorry.
480
00:24:25,552 --> 00:24:27,551
So you found the lawyer.
481
00:24:27,951 --> 00:24:28,971
Is this some kind of a test?
482
00:24:29,071 --> 00:24:31,090
Do I get a prize at the end of it?
483
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:32,570
Do you know how much
they're settling for?
484
00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:34,410
No.
485
00:24:34,510 --> 00:24:39,289
£400,000 in damages,
another £300,000 in legal expenses,
486
00:24:39,389 --> 00:24:42,488
and their associates
are getting £140,000 in damages,
487
00:24:42,588 --> 00:24:44,048
plus their legal.
488
00:24:44,148 --> 00:24:47,567
The whole package comes in
at just over a million pounds.
489
00:24:47,667 --> 00:24:48,607
Now that's a lot,
490
00:24:48,707 --> 00:24:51,126
even for News International to stomach.
491
00:24:51,226 --> 00:24:53,206
But,
492
00:24:53,306 --> 00:24:57,365
Max Mosley was... They accused him
of being a Nazi at an orgy.
493
00:24:57,465 --> 00:25:00,244
- All he got was...
- £60,000, yes.
494
00:25:00,344 --> 00:25:02,344
Now you're getting it.
495
00:25:04,224 --> 00:25:05,163
Look, I need you.
496
00:25:05,263 --> 00:25:07,843
I need paperwork or-or audio recording,
497
00:25:07,943 --> 00:25:09,522
some sort of hard evidence,
498
00:25:09,622 --> 00:25:10,842
I don't even have to publish it.
499
00:25:10,942 --> 00:25:12,922
I just need to be able
to show The Guardian.
500
00:25:13,022 --> 00:25:15,401
The preliminary hearings, in 2007,
they're public record.
501
00:25:15,501 --> 00:25:17,501
That's not enough.
502
00:25:22,020 --> 00:25:24,019
All right.
503
00:25:27,219 --> 00:25:28,239
What is it?
504
00:25:28,339 --> 00:25:29,398
You'll work it out.
505
00:25:29,498 --> 00:25:30,598
- Can I use it?
- Nope.
506
00:25:30,698 --> 00:25:32,478
I need to be able to use it.
507
00:25:32,578 --> 00:25:33,997
Summarise it, yes.
508
00:25:34,097 --> 00:25:35,597
Show it to your editor, yes.
509
00:25:35,697 --> 00:25:38,356
Quote from it, no.
510
00:25:38,456 --> 00:25:40,456
Can I have your number?
511
00:25:41,176 --> 00:25:43,175
Be careful, Nick.
512
00:25:44,255 --> 00:25:46,255
This could get nasty.
513
00:26:02,092 --> 00:26:04,791
I have a piece on MPs expenses
I want you to have a look at.
514
00:26:04,891 --> 00:26:06,591
- Okay.
- Do you want some gingerbread?
515
00:26:06,691 --> 00:26:08,230
My mother made it. It's not very good.
516
00:26:08,330 --> 00:26:10,190
I have evidence.
517
00:26:10,290 --> 00:26:11,869
How long did that take you to get?
518
00:26:11,969 --> 00:26:14,089
Maybe two months,
ALAN: And you've never mentioned it?
519
00:26:16,089 --> 00:26:17,708
They're paying out millions
to cover this up.
520
00:26:17,808 --> 00:26:19,808
This is a story.
521
00:26:20,408 --> 00:26:22,907
Nick, newspapers
reporting on newspapers...
522
00:26:23,007 --> 00:26:26,346
But the editor of that newspaper
is about to enter government.
523
00:26:26,446 --> 00:26:30,226
If Andy Coulson was complicit
in hacking phones as an editor,
524
00:26:30,326 --> 00:26:32,885
imagine what he might do
to enemies of the government.
525
00:26:34,165 --> 00:26:36,104
Show me what you have.
526
00:26:36,204 --> 00:26:38,204
Okay, so,
527
00:26:38,884 --> 00:26:40,184
printout of an e-mail.
528
00:26:40,284 --> 00:26:45,223
ross.hindley@news-of-the-world
to shadownmen@yahoo.co.uk
529
00:26:45,323 --> 00:26:46,342
It's Glenn Mulcaire's e-mail.
530
00:26:46,442 --> 00:26:47,782
His e-mail was shadowmen?
531
00:26:47,882 --> 00:26:49,962
Hmm, it says, "transcript for Neville."
532
00:26:51,161 --> 00:26:52,981
"Wednesday, 29th of June, 2005."
533
00:26:53,081 --> 00:26:54,021
I can read.
534
00:26:54,121 --> 00:26:56,060
And Neville is...
535
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,700
Neville Thurlbeck,
Chief reporter at News of the World.
536
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,019
There are transcripts
of 35 voicemail messages,
537
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,498
which had been left on the phones
of Gordon Taylor and a colleague.
538
00:27:05,598 --> 00:27:07,578
It wasn't just Clive Goodman.
539
00:27:07,678 --> 00:27:09,678
And then, there's this.
540
00:27:10,237 --> 00:27:14,337
Greg Miskiw, assistant editor
approving a payment of £7000,
541
00:27:14,437 --> 00:27:17,456
to Mulcaire for a story on Gordon Taylor.
542
00:27:17,556 --> 00:27:20,855
And the police have access
to all of this and more.
543
00:27:20,955 --> 00:27:22,015
Can we use these?
544
00:27:22,115 --> 00:27:23,975
No.
545
00:27:24,075 --> 00:27:26,754
Can we get your Mr Apollo
to speak on the record?
546
00:27:28,434 --> 00:27:29,533
How long have we known each other?
547
00:27:29,633 --> 00:27:31,253
I have no idea.
548
00:27:31,353 --> 00:27:32,973
I had no interest
in trying to work that out.
549
00:27:33,073 --> 00:27:34,092
It'll make me feel old.
550
00:27:34,192 --> 00:27:37,492
Nearly thirty years. This is it, Alan.
551
00:27:37,592 --> 00:27:39,211
There is an industry making huge profit
552
00:27:39,311 --> 00:27:40,731
from invading people's private lives,
553
00:27:40,831 --> 00:27:42,651
and Rupert Murdoch's bullying tabloids
554
00:27:42,751 --> 00:27:45,150
have explicitly encouraged it
and are buying it.
555
00:27:50,469 --> 00:27:52,469
This matters.
556
00:27:57,708 --> 00:27:59,707
Tin hats on.
557
00:28:01,027 --> 00:28:03,026
Good. Okay.
558
00:28:05,746 --> 00:28:08,845
I'll-I'll let you know
when I've got something.
559
00:28:08,945 --> 00:28:10,945
Thanks, Alan.
560
00:28:11,785 --> 00:28:13,804
You may think you lead a private life,
561
00:28:13,904 --> 00:28:15,764
but The Guardian has uncovered evidence
562
00:28:15,864 --> 00:28:17,643
to suggest otherwise.
563
00:28:17,743 --> 00:28:22,402
This strange story began in 2006
with the arrest of two men,
564
00:28:22,502 --> 00:28:24,842
The News of the World,
Royal Editor, Clive Goodman,
565
00:28:24,942 --> 00:28:27,561
and private investigator, Glenn Mulcaire.
566
00:28:27,661 --> 00:28:30,041
The men pled guilty
to phone hacking charges,
567
00:28:30,141 --> 00:28:31,720
and served prison sentences.
568
00:28:31,820 --> 00:28:33,320
Following an investigation,
569
00:28:33,420 --> 00:28:38,079
the paper told the world that hacking
was the work of one rogue reporter.
570
00:28:38,179 --> 00:28:40,479
The story should have ended there.
571
00:28:40,579 --> 00:28:41,878
But it didn't.
572
00:28:55,616 --> 00:28:56,614
From the beginning on,
573
00:28:56,615 --> 00:28:59,135
newspapers have prospered for one reason,
574
00:29:00,215 --> 00:29:02,394
giving readers the news they want.
575
00:29:02,494 --> 00:29:04,314
Shit.
576
00:29:04,414 --> 00:29:09,153
Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit!
Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit!
577
00:29:12,692 --> 00:29:13,992
Keep it simple.
578
00:29:14,092 --> 00:29:16,071
Rupert Murdoch's News Group Newspapers
579
00:29:16,171 --> 00:29:19,191
had paid out more than £1,000,000
to settle legal cases
580
00:29:19,291 --> 00:29:20,750
that threatened to reveal evidence
581
00:29:20,850 --> 00:29:22,590
of his journalists' repeated involvement
582
00:29:22,690 --> 00:29:24,949
in the use of criminal methods
to get stories.
583
00:29:25,049 --> 00:29:28,349
Payments secured secrecy
over out-of-court settlements
584
00:29:28,449 --> 00:29:30,948
in three cases that threatened
to expose evidence
585
00:29:31,048 --> 00:29:34,188
of Murdoch journalists
using private investigators
586
00:29:34,288 --> 00:29:37,467
to illegally hack into
the mobile phone messages
587
00:29:37,567 --> 00:29:39,426
of numerous public figures.
588
00:29:39,526 --> 00:29:42,866
Cabinet ministers.
MPs, actors, and sports stars...
589
00:29:42,966 --> 00:29:45,025
were all targets
of private investigators.
590
00:29:45,125 --> 00:29:47,025
Are you sure we can safely
list all those groups?
591
00:29:47,125 --> 00:29:49,384
We already have evidence of actors,
Elle Macpherson,
592
00:29:49,484 --> 00:29:51,384
- sport stars, Sky Andrew...
- MPs then?
593
00:29:51,484 --> 00:29:52,944
I have an invoice
594
00:29:53,044 --> 00:29:55,103
recording a payment
to a private investigator
595
00:29:55,203 --> 00:29:56,863
showing John Prescott had been targeted,
596
00:29:56,963 --> 00:29:57,903
it's likely hacking.
597
00:29:58,003 --> 00:29:59,342
This article has no named sources.
598
00:29:59,442 --> 00:30:00,782
There's no evidence on the record.
599
00:30:00,882 --> 00:30:02,862
Alan thinks we have enough, I do, too.
600
00:30:02,962 --> 00:30:04,381
And we haven't got right of reply.
601
00:30:04,481 --> 00:30:06,021
It's a declaration of bloody war.
602
00:30:06,121 --> 00:30:08,061
Murdoch and Brooks,
they have nuclear weapons.
603
00:30:08,161 --> 00:30:09,140
Right now they do.
604
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,100
But we can neuter
their nuclear weapons with this.
605
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,139
If we do, Fleet Street
will fall in behind us,
606
00:30:13,239 --> 00:30:14,219
the police soon after.
607
00:30:14,319 --> 00:30:16,859
And they have... when they
find the information
608
00:30:16,959 --> 00:30:18,077
- they already have.
- Information they've lost?
609
00:30:18,078 --> 00:30:19,258
Information they don't know they have.
610
00:30:19,358 --> 00:30:21,738
This is The Met we're talking about.
611
00:30:21,838 --> 00:30:24,537
Look, once we publish,
they'll be forced to act.
612
00:30:24,637 --> 00:30:26,637
Can we name Coulson?
613
00:30:27,157 --> 00:30:28,816
Now you're worried
I haven't gone far enough.
614
00:30:28,916 --> 00:30:30,736
No, it makes it more
in the public interest
615
00:30:30,836 --> 00:30:31,776
if we can name him.
616
00:30:31,876 --> 00:30:34,695
I did ring conservative HQ
right to reply, Gill.
617
00:30:34,795 --> 00:30:36,575
I asked about
the Gordon Taylor settlement.
618
00:30:36,675 --> 00:30:38,694
His office replied,
it didn't ring any bells.
619
00:30:38,794 --> 00:30:40,934
We've nothing that directly links him.
620
00:30:41,034 --> 00:30:42,093
I agree.
621
00:30:42,193 --> 00:30:44,793
But we can say,
622
00:30:45,833 --> 00:30:48,212
that he was the editor in place
when journalists
623
00:30:48,312 --> 00:30:50,292
for whom he was responsible,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
624
00:30:50,392 --> 00:30:52,371
That's good.
625
00:30:52,471 --> 00:30:54,471
That's good.
626
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:58,950
Yes?
627
00:30:59,310 --> 00:31:01,309
I'm uneasy, but if you're sure...
628
00:31:05,229 --> 00:31:07,228
I am.
629
00:31:11,667 --> 00:31:13,667
It reads well.
630
00:31:19,346 --> 00:31:21,345
Okay.
631
00:31:27,864 --> 00:31:29,124
At half past five in the afternoon
632
00:31:29,224 --> 00:31:31,403
on Wednesday, 8th of July, 2009,
633
00:31:31,503 --> 00:31:33,963
we posted my news story
on The Guardian website.
634
00:31:34,063 --> 00:31:37,202
As it ran, The Guardian news desk
asked a reporter, Caroline Davies,
635
00:31:37,302 --> 00:31:39,841
to call John Prescott,
ex-Deputy Prime Minister,
636
00:31:39,941 --> 00:31:41,041
to get a quote.
637
00:31:41,141 --> 00:31:43,201
I told him the gist of the story,
638
00:31:43,301 --> 00:31:45,600
and he said, "Fookin' 'ell!"
639
00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:47,040
You'd have thought the police
640
00:31:47,140 --> 00:31:49,200
in the committing of a criminal offence,
641
00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:50,719
and clearly it is, against anyone,
642
00:31:50,819 --> 00:31:53,199
and particularly you'd have thought,
a cabinet member,
643
00:31:53,299 --> 00:31:54,798
they would have come
and told me about it.
644
00:31:54,898 --> 00:31:56,678
I would have asked them,
"What are you going to do about it?"
645
00:31:56,778 --> 00:31:58,918
Prescott roared.
646
00:31:59,018 --> 00:32:01,017
But the house fell silent.
647
00:32:02,457 --> 00:32:04,456
Anyone?
648
00:32:06,176 --> 00:32:08,176
Anyone?
649
00:32:11,695 --> 00:32:13,235
And Fleet Street,
650
00:32:13,335 --> 00:32:14,514
well...
651
00:32:17,134 --> 00:32:21,073
Fleet Street essentially
did their best to ignore the story.
652
00:32:21,173 --> 00:32:24,312
Ask any journalist
what a great story depends on.
653
00:32:24,412 --> 00:32:26,412
They'll say the same thing.
654
00:32:26,812 --> 00:32:28,231
A new angle,
655
00:32:28,331 --> 00:32:30,631
one at least journalists can get behind.
656
00:32:30,731 --> 00:32:32,351
We are reliant on our own profession
657
00:32:32,451 --> 00:32:34,910
to follow up on stories
so they have impact.
658
00:32:35,010 --> 00:32:38,109
To make a story newsworthy
requires multiple news outlets.
659
00:32:38,209 --> 00:32:39,829
But on this one,
660
00:32:39,929 --> 00:32:41,949
crickets.
661
00:32:42,049 --> 00:32:44,148
My company couldn't have settled
the legal action
662
00:32:44,248 --> 00:32:45,228
like The Guardian claims.
663
00:32:45,328 --> 00:32:47,587
If they had done,
I'd have known about it.
664
00:32:47,687 --> 00:32:49,747
I tried to get this out
as wide as possible.
665
00:32:49,847 --> 00:32:51,827
I talked on radio stations, TV shows.
666
00:32:51,927 --> 00:32:54,786
I took constant calls from agents of
public figures asking,
667
00:32:54,886 --> 00:32:56,066
"Am I on that list?"
668
00:32:56,166 --> 00:32:57,385
I slept about four hours.
669
00:32:57,485 --> 00:33:01,145
And then at five in the afternoon,
I was surprised to hear that
670
00:33:01,245 --> 00:33:04,624
John Yates, Assistant Commissioner
of Scotland Yard,
671
00:33:04,724 --> 00:33:07,183
was preparing to make a statement.
672
00:33:07,283 --> 00:33:08,543
Good afternoon.
673
00:33:08,643 --> 00:33:10,463
I was not involved in the original case
674
00:33:10,563 --> 00:33:14,062
and clearly come at this
with an independent mind.
675
00:33:14,162 --> 00:33:15,502
In my opinion, what I've seen
676
00:33:15,602 --> 00:33:19,681
is a most careful investigation
by very experienced detectives.
677
00:33:20,681 --> 00:33:23,220
He proceeded to gently demolish our work.
678
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,700
We'd suggested there were
thousands of victims.
679
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,139
The potential targets
may have run into hundreds of people.
680
00:33:29,239 --> 00:33:32,098
But our inquiry showed
that they only used the tactic
681
00:33:32,198 --> 00:33:34,938
against a far smaller
number of individuals.
682
00:33:35,038 --> 00:33:37,257
And since no additional evidence
has come to light,
683
00:33:37,357 --> 00:33:39,477
I can see no reason
to reopen the inquiry.
684
00:33:40,636 --> 00:33:42,096
Thank you. That's all for today.
685
00:33:42,196 --> 00:33:45,076
Does that mean
The Guardian fabricated the story?
686
00:33:48,195 --> 00:33:50,134
...may have run into hundreds of people.
687
00:33:50,234 --> 00:33:53,014
But our inquiry showed
that they only used the tactic
688
00:33:53,114 --> 00:33:55,333
against a far smaller
number of individuals.
689
00:33:55,433 --> 00:33:57,773
And since no additional evidence
has come to light,
690
00:33:57,873 --> 00:34:00,072
I can see no reason
to reopen the inquiry.
691
00:34:01,112 --> 00:34:03,292
That was
Assistant Commissioner John Yates,
692
00:34:03,392 --> 00:34:04,811
speaking in response to...
693
00:34:08,911 --> 00:34:10,930
What is it?
694
00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:12,650
The police haven't backed us,
695
00:34:12,750 --> 00:34:16,129
and Keir Starmer's conducting a review.
696
00:34:16,229 --> 00:34:17,929
He was Director of
Public Prosecutions then.
697
00:34:18,029 --> 00:34:20,688
But he doesn't consider
there was anything inappropriate
698
00:34:20,788 --> 00:34:22,968
in the prosecutions
undertaken in this case.
699
00:34:23,068 --> 00:34:25,767
We are being squashed.
700
00:34:25,867 --> 00:34:27,567
We need to speak to your Mr Apollo.
701
00:34:27,667 --> 00:34:28,846
We need to get him on the record.
702
00:34:28,946 --> 00:34:30,926
He...
703
00:34:31,026 --> 00:34:32,926
he can contact me, I can't contact him.
704
00:34:33,026 --> 00:34:35,025
Nick,
705
00:34:36,185 --> 00:34:39,844
our colleagues upstairs
are gravely concerned.
706
00:34:39,944 --> 00:34:41,444
Is it possible you were set up?
707
00:34:41,544 --> 00:34:43,043
No, this is right. I've...
708
00:34:43,143 --> 00:34:46,523
We've used no named sources,
no quotes from documents,
709
00:34:46,623 --> 00:34:48,622
we should never have published.
710
00:34:49,502 --> 00:34:52,961
And Murdoch has set his attack dogs
on us in the Commons,
711
00:34:53,061 --> 00:34:55,721
they're briefing
that we can't back up our story.
712
00:34:55,821 --> 00:34:58,900
And now the CMS Select Committee
want to see us urgently.
713
00:35:00,220 --> 00:35:02,359
That doesn't sound great.
714
00:35:02,459 --> 00:35:04,039
They want to barbecue you, Nick,
715
00:35:04,139 --> 00:35:06,299
and John Yates has given them permission.
716
00:35:08,938 --> 00:35:10,938
I'm sorry. I...
717
00:35:11,578 --> 00:35:13,777
I've read the runes wrong here.
718
00:35:15,617 --> 00:35:17,316
The Guardian
are putting together a statement.
719
00:35:17,416 --> 00:35:18,996
What kind of statement?
720
00:35:19,096 --> 00:35:21,096
I'll know when I see it.
721
00:35:21,895 --> 00:35:23,895
I feel like I'm having a heart attack.
722
00:35:26,255 --> 00:35:28,254
Why is everybody doing this?
723
00:35:52,489 --> 00:35:54,469
My mother was a strong character,
724
00:35:54,569 --> 00:35:57,828
intelligent, forceful, imaginative,
725
00:35:57,928 --> 00:36:01,947
trapped, as she believed,
in domestic drudgery. She had...
726
00:36:02,047 --> 00:36:04,047
She had a furious temper.
727
00:36:04,447 --> 00:36:07,826
This wasn't the 1950s toxic ideal of
"Spare the rod and spoil the child."
728
00:36:07,926 --> 00:36:09,506
This was mad beatings,
729
00:36:09,606 --> 00:36:12,905
when she came after us
with a black-eyed fury
730
00:36:13,005 --> 00:36:15,824
armed with whatever weapon
she had to hand,
731
00:36:15,924 --> 00:36:18,884
a dog lead, a slipper, a riding crop,
a rope.
732
00:36:21,403 --> 00:36:23,403
Are you ready to say you're sorry?
733
00:36:25,442 --> 00:36:27,442
No.
734
00:36:32,001 --> 00:36:35,180
I had been working as a journalist
for a couple of decades,
735
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,979
thinking I was interested in
criminal justice and social problems
736
00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:41,579
when I saw that I was
being drawn to stories,
737
00:36:41,679 --> 00:36:43,678
again and again with the same theme.
738
00:36:45,358 --> 00:36:47,058
A deep-seated urge to hit back...
739
00:36:48,637 --> 00:36:51,017
- ...at anybody at all...
- Mr Davies.
740
00:36:51,117 --> 00:36:54,456
- ...who takes power and abuses it.
- Stupid child!
741
00:37:40,547 --> 00:37:42,686
Yeah, so I tried hitting him back.
742
00:37:42,786 --> 00:37:44,786
Why?
743
00:37:45,346 --> 00:37:47,345
Seething rage.
744
00:37:47,665 --> 00:37:49,665
I thought he looked vulnerable.
745
00:37:50,465 --> 00:37:52,464
Oh.
746
00:37:53,584 --> 00:37:55,004
It didn't work.
747
00:37:55,104 --> 00:37:57,103
No.
748
00:37:58,263 --> 00:37:59,443
You look terrible.
749
00:37:59,543 --> 00:38:01,542
Thank you.
750
00:38:02,662 --> 00:38:03,722
What happened to you?
751
00:38:03,822 --> 00:38:05,821
Are you asking me or him?
752
00:38:07,781 --> 00:38:11,200
Okay, so I need to take you
to your mum's tonight.
753
00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:14,140
Um... She says she's cool with it
if you are.
754
00:38:14,460 --> 00:38:16,459
Yeah, sure, I don't mind.
755
00:38:25,537 --> 00:38:28,397
It's been a day of
statement and counter statement
756
00:38:28,497 --> 00:38:30,036
in the phone hacking affair
757
00:38:30,136 --> 00:38:32,756
with News International angrily refuting
758
00:38:32,856 --> 00:38:35,355
all the allegations made by The Guardian.
759
00:38:35,455 --> 00:38:37,075
With the editor and the reporter
760
00:38:37,175 --> 00:38:39,634
due to appear
at the Media Select Committee,
761
00:38:39,734 --> 00:38:42,834
certain publications
are claiming a leftist agenda
762
00:38:42,934 --> 00:38:45,513
against the News of the World
by The Guardian.
763
00:38:45,613 --> 00:38:49,072
And calling for legal action
to be taken against the organisation
764
00:38:49,172 --> 00:38:50,472
if they can't back up
765
00:38:50,572 --> 00:38:53,252
spurious claims
made against Murdoch's paper.
766
00:39:00,410 --> 00:39:02,410
- Hi.
- Hello.
767
00:39:05,409 --> 00:39:07,509
- See you, kids.
- Hi, kids.
768
00:39:07,609 --> 00:39:09,908
- Oh, hang on.
- I'm fine, Mum. I'm fine.
769
00:39:10,008 --> 00:39:11,348
It's my fault.
770
00:39:11,448 --> 00:39:13,447
I'm sorry. Bad advice.
771
00:39:14,407 --> 00:39:15,987
Coffee?
772
00:39:16,087 --> 00:39:18,906
I'll... Thanks for this.
I'll see you Monday.
773
00:39:19,006 --> 00:39:20,866
- I'm sorry.
- Nick.
774
00:39:20,966 --> 00:39:22,825
- Yeah?
- Have you eaten?
775
00:39:22,925 --> 00:39:23,945
When?
776
00:39:24,045 --> 00:39:25,385
In the last day.
777
00:39:25,485 --> 00:39:29,184
I'm just a bit tired. I'm not...
I'm not really at my best.
778
00:39:29,284 --> 00:39:30,344
I need to think.
779
00:39:30,444 --> 00:39:33,663
And the...
780
00:39:33,763 --> 00:39:35,863
the House of Commons Select Committee.
781
00:39:35,963 --> 00:39:37,182
Want to see us tomorrow.
782
00:39:37,282 --> 00:39:39,342
And The Guardian have got this message
783
00:39:39,442 --> 00:39:42,461
that their PR have written,
that is... that is just...
784
00:39:42,561 --> 00:39:44,561
All right. Okay.
785
00:39:45,561 --> 00:39:47,500
You look worse than he does. Let's...
786
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,780
I didn't tell him to fight back.
787
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,219
I told him to pick his moment,
I didn't want him to hit someone.
788
00:39:52,319 --> 00:39:54,019
Shit.
789
00:39:54,119 --> 00:39:56,259
It's all right.
790
00:39:56,359 --> 00:39:58,358
Come on.
791
00:39:58,678 --> 00:40:00,898
Sit down. Sit down.
792
00:40:00,998 --> 00:40:02,997
Soup okay?
793
00:40:07,716 --> 00:40:09,736
What do I do?
794
00:40:09,836 --> 00:40:11,255
How do I make it better?
795
00:40:11,355 --> 00:40:14,195
Well, we will talk to the school.
796
00:40:15,355 --> 00:40:17,334
You think they'll do better?
797
00:40:17,434 --> 00:40:19,434
It's a good school.
798
00:40:20,354 --> 00:40:21,373
Things have changed.
799
00:40:21,473 --> 00:40:24,913
You know, teachers, parents,
they're not allowed to do...
800
00:40:26,552 --> 00:40:28,552
There's systems, right?
801
00:40:30,431 --> 00:40:32,431
I thought about her.
802
00:40:32,911 --> 00:40:34,911
Earlier today, I was reading this...
803
00:40:36,750 --> 00:40:40,369
paper-mache over-apologetic PR nonsense,
804
00:40:40,469 --> 00:40:43,209
and I thought about all the times
I'd gone to her and apologised.
805
00:40:43,309 --> 00:40:45,308
And all the times I...
806
00:40:45,708 --> 00:40:47,708
and then my son gets a face like that.
807
00:40:50,547 --> 00:40:52,547
Okay.
808
00:40:53,667 --> 00:40:54,646
I'm gonna make the sofa up.
809
00:40:54,746 --> 00:40:56,746
You're staying here tonight.
810
00:40:57,586 --> 00:40:59,585
And I'll just put this soup on.
811
00:41:31,339 --> 00:41:34,038
- Hi.
- I can't read that statement.
812
00:41:34,138 --> 00:41:36,138
A retraction at this time,
813
00:41:36,738 --> 00:41:38,557
you're asking me to say I was wrong.
814
00:41:38,657 --> 00:41:41,017
If we can't get Mr Apollo on the record,
815
00:41:42,217 --> 00:41:44,316
then we need to make a retraction.
816
00:41:44,416 --> 00:41:46,776
You know getting him on the record
is impossible.
817
00:41:48,215 --> 00:41:50,035
Then I'm afraid you'll have
to make that statement
818
00:41:50,135 --> 00:41:51,915
to the Select Committee tomorrow.
819
00:41:52,015 --> 00:41:54,994
If you make me read it out, I won't come.
820
00:41:55,094 --> 00:41:58,053
If you don't come, we're fucked.
821
00:42:01,133 --> 00:42:03,132
Oh.
822
00:42:30,846 --> 00:42:32,786
Carl Bernstein,
one of the great reporters
823
00:42:32,886 --> 00:42:34,886
who exposed the Watergate scandal, said,
824
00:42:35,885 --> 00:42:39,225
"I think all good reporting
is the same thing.
825
00:42:39,325 --> 00:42:42,184
"The best attainable version
of the truth."
826
00:42:42,284 --> 00:42:46,303
The best attainable version of the truth.
827
00:42:46,403 --> 00:42:48,443
The best attainable...
so no matter what you've got...
828
00:42:50,322 --> 00:42:52,322
you've got to...
829
00:43:10,638 --> 00:43:11,698
Good morning.
830
00:43:11,798 --> 00:43:14,997
Hi. Does this printer-scanner
thing still work?
831
00:43:16,197 --> 00:43:17,937
Yeah, that one does. Coffee?
832
00:43:18,037 --> 00:43:21,736
And do you have some black paper
and some glue and some scissors?
833
00:43:21,836 --> 00:43:23,815
Oh, you're making me a collage, Nick?
834
00:43:23,915 --> 00:43:27,095
Might need the kids
to be slightly late for school.
835
00:43:27,195 --> 00:43:29,194
Right. Why?
836
00:43:30,354 --> 00:43:33,413
Okay, so these are e-mails
837
00:43:33,513 --> 00:43:36,173
written to a journalist, that's Neville,
838
00:43:36,273 --> 00:43:38,092
with transcriptions of
839
00:43:38,192 --> 00:43:40,412
a man called Gordon Taylor's
voicemail messages.
840
00:43:40,512 --> 00:43:42,412
What I need you to do
is to block out all the sections
841
00:43:42,512 --> 00:43:44,931
which are clearly transcribed
from those voicemails.
842
00:43:45,031 --> 00:43:46,051
Leave everything else visible.
843
00:43:46,151 --> 00:43:47,230
You should be able to tell
which bits are which.
844
00:43:47,231 --> 00:43:48,330
But any doubts, just ask.
845
00:43:48,430 --> 00:43:51,250
Hmm. May I ask, why aren't you
doing this at The Guardian,
846
00:43:51,350 --> 00:43:53,089
with some sort of vague professionalism?
847
00:43:53,189 --> 00:43:54,929
Alan can't know.
848
00:43:55,029 --> 00:43:57,029
Your editor can't know?
849
00:43:57,508 --> 00:43:59,488
Because I can't have him
tell anyone else.
850
00:43:59,588 --> 00:44:01,488
Oh yeah, that man is a gossip.
851
00:44:01,588 --> 00:44:02,546
Fleet Street can't know about this.
852
00:44:02,547 --> 00:44:05,367
As far as they know, I'm walking
naked into that committee room.
853
00:44:05,467 --> 00:44:06,927
I was just trying to protect my editor.
854
00:44:07,027 --> 00:44:09,106
- And my newspaper.
- And you?
855
00:44:11,146 --> 00:44:13,305
What sort of danger
are you putting yourself in here?
856
00:44:42,979 --> 00:44:44,979
Nick.
857
00:44:47,138 --> 00:44:49,038
How are you, Alan?
858
00:44:49,138 --> 00:44:51,077
I'm fine, a bit tired.
859
00:44:51,177 --> 00:44:53,517
Something interrupted
my sleep last night.
860
00:44:53,617 --> 00:44:55,616
I hate it when that happens.
861
00:44:57,456 --> 00:44:59,456
I hate all of this.
862
00:44:59,936 --> 00:45:01,935
I'm sorry if I've made
your life difficult.
863
00:45:02,615 --> 00:45:03,995
My life?
864
00:45:04,095 --> 00:45:06,094
This is bigger than me.
865
00:45:07,134 --> 00:45:10,333
You could have brought down the whole
Guardian newspaper with this one.
866
00:45:11,333 --> 00:45:13,393
But what a way to go.
867
00:45:13,493 --> 00:45:16,952
I mean, consider the glory.
868
00:45:17,052 --> 00:45:23,271
I, Nick Davies,
have destroyed, utterly destroyed
869
00:45:23,371 --> 00:45:26,570
close to 200 years
of journalistic endeavour,
870
00:45:27,810 --> 00:45:30,949
You're an absolute... God.
871
00:45:31,049 --> 00:45:32,829
God, I can't even think what you are.
872
00:45:32,929 --> 00:45:34,928
You're awful.
873
00:45:36,808 --> 00:45:40,827
You know what Peter Preston told me
when I took over the editor's desk?
874
00:45:40,927 --> 00:45:42,907
Why in hell did they choose you?
875
00:45:43,007 --> 00:45:45,006
Don't join the club.
876
00:45:45,526 --> 00:45:47,266
He had to make adjustments to the paper
877
00:45:47,366 --> 00:45:50,105
after the move from Manchester,
and he didn't...
878
00:45:50,205 --> 00:45:55,024
well, he wouldn't be part
of the media cabal.
879
00:45:55,124 --> 00:45:57,544
He liked being on
the edge of Fleet Street.
880
00:45:57,644 --> 00:46:00,443
He considered it part of our DNA.
881
00:46:01,803 --> 00:46:04,002
Last night in bed, I realised something.
882
00:46:05,202 --> 00:46:08,421
What you've done bringing us here,
883
00:46:08,521 --> 00:46:11,561
is in the line of great Guardian coups.
884
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,880
But I do want to keep the newspaper
I've been entrusted with alive.
885
00:46:18,599 --> 00:46:20,299
Are you reading the statement?
886
00:46:20,399 --> 00:46:22,398
No.
887
00:46:22,878 --> 00:46:24,878
But I do have things to say.
888
00:46:27,877 --> 00:46:30,697
If you go too far,
I will squeeze your leg
889
00:46:30,797 --> 00:46:32,796
and you will stop.
890
00:46:33,796 --> 00:46:35,796
I have a paper to protect.
891
00:46:36,795 --> 00:46:39,795
And you, be sure to protect yourself.
892
00:46:41,754 --> 00:46:43,494
Tin hats on.
893
00:46:43,594 --> 00:46:45,594
Thank you for joining us, gentlemen.
894
00:46:46,593 --> 00:46:47,733
Now we have a lot of questions,
895
00:46:47,833 --> 00:46:50,493
so try to keep opening statements short.
896
00:46:50,593 --> 00:46:52,792
I'd like to keep this whole
experience quite short, if I may.
897
00:46:54,979 --> 00:46:58,218
But I do have...
there is a lot for me to say.
898
00:47:01,430 --> 00:47:04,370
I'd like to start by showing you,
first of all,
899
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:06,789
copies of an e-mail.
67280
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