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1
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The things he did to those kids,
2
00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:11,094
he's confessed to it twice now.
3
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There is also the
matter of my co-counsel.
4
00:00:14,139 --> 00:00:15,825
We're gonna need a
real nuts-and-bolts guy
5
00:00:15,849 --> 00:00:18,536
to keep shoveling off the
shit kunkle throws our way.
6
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,788
There is a petition to remand my client
7
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to the psychiatric
hospices of cermak hospital.
8
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All we ask is that he be
held in emergency custody
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for psychiatric evaluation.
10
00:00:29,154 --> 00:00:30,381
The court agrees.
11
00:00:35,201 --> 00:00:38,597
I told cops, you did nothing!
12
00:00:38,621 --> 00:00:40,206
Where is he?
13
00:00:40,415 --> 00:00:41,583
Where is my boy?
14
00:00:41,875 --> 00:00:44,562
Parents reported the boys missing.
15
00:00:44,586 --> 00:00:46,272
Cpd kept doing nothing.
16
00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:47,732
Medical and dental records
17
00:00:47,756 --> 00:00:51,235
will be required to identify the deceased.
18
00:00:51,259 --> 00:00:55,573
They dumped some of
them, off the side. Right here.
19
00:00:55,597 --> 00:00:57,700
Goddamn fairies.
20
00:00:57,724 --> 00:00:59,809
Faggots brought it on themselves.
21
00:01:00,101 --> 00:01:01,746
He wasn't like that.
22
00:01:01,770 --> 00:01:03,831
Not like what they're
saying like those other boys.
23
00:01:03,855 --> 00:01:05,291
He wasn't like that.
24
00:01:05,315 --> 00:01:08,193
He was... he was better
than what they're saying!
25
00:01:52,195 --> 00:01:58,159
- I can do this. I, I can...
- I have to. Thank you.
26
00:01:59,911 --> 00:02:01,162
You don't.
27
00:02:06,334 --> 00:02:07,836
These are the x-rays.
28
00:02:08,503 --> 00:02:11,840
One shows that root
canal he had that year.
29
00:02:13,675 --> 00:02:14,902
His infection.
30
00:02:14,926 --> 00:02:16,988
The other's for the gold crown.
31
00:02:17,012 --> 00:02:19,657
I have earlier images, but I...
32
00:02:19,681 --> 00:02:21,433
I don't think they'll need them.
33
00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,399
Molds I took of his teeth.
34
00:02:30,984 --> 00:02:33,695
I made models, a couple of years ago.
35
00:02:34,529 --> 00:02:36,364
In, in case...
36
00:02:36,698 --> 00:02:38,533
well, after he disappeared.
37
00:02:40,869 --> 00:02:42,412
In case...
38
00:03:31,419 --> 00:03:33,713
No. No, no, no, no.
39
00:03:34,089 --> 00:03:35,548
No, no, no.
40
00:03:36,466 --> 00:03:40,261
No. No. No, no, no.
41
00:04:02,617 --> 00:04:06,597
This case is gonna be built
by digging through case law.
42
00:04:06,621 --> 00:04:08,474
It's actually extremely exciting.
43
00:04:08,498 --> 00:04:09,791
Fucking tedious.
44
00:04:11,001 --> 00:04:14,004
All right. Be straight with me.
45
00:04:15,005 --> 00:04:17,424
What did gacy confess to police?
46
00:04:18,842 --> 00:04:21,445
All of it. All the murders.
47
00:04:21,469 --> 00:04:22,470
Thirty-two of 'em.
48
00:04:22,762 --> 00:04:23,990
If it's even the right number.
49
00:04:24,014 --> 00:04:25,515
How the hell'd you let that happen?
50
00:04:26,349 --> 00:04:27,600
My team meet him.
51
00:04:31,146 --> 00:04:32,873
You get a copy of the
confession from police?
52
00:04:32,897 --> 00:04:34,315
Did gacy sign it?
53
00:04:34,607 --> 00:04:36,627
Nope. Nothing to sign, Bob.
54
00:04:36,651 --> 00:04:38,921
Police didn't have him
write it down or record it.
55
00:04:38,945 --> 00:04:41,549
He just kept talking like
a fucking looney tune.
56
00:04:41,573 --> 00:04:43,134
Des plaines just jotted down notes.
57
00:04:43,158 --> 00:04:44,576
Hang on a minute.
58
00:04:45,410 --> 00:04:47,871
You're saying all I got is some notes?
59
00:04:52,625 --> 00:04:54,044
Confession didn't happen.
60
00:04:54,336 --> 00:04:55,813
They could've said
whatever they wanted.
61
00:04:55,837 --> 00:04:57,106
- Holy shit.
- When they got...
62
00:04:57,130 --> 00:04:59,025
they got nothing to
prove gacy said anything.
63
00:04:59,049 --> 00:05:00,901
Plus, you said he was distressed.
64
00:05:00,925 --> 00:05:03,612
You said taking pills, he's drinking heavily
65
00:05:03,636 --> 00:05:06,741
could be improper exertion of influence.
66
00:05:06,765 --> 00:05:09,035
Right now, all they got evidence of
67
00:05:09,059 --> 00:05:12,020
is that gacy was illegally
operating a graveyard.
68
00:05:15,190 --> 00:05:16,917
I mean, we still gotta build up a defense.
69
00:05:16,941 --> 00:05:18,127
Insanity is the way to go.
70
00:05:18,151 --> 00:05:19,503
No other way.
71
00:05:19,527 --> 00:05:21,088
I mean, look. The good news is
72
00:05:21,112 --> 00:05:22,965
half the shrinks in the country
are begging for a crack at him.
73
00:05:22,989 --> 00:05:25,658
He's like the fucking
Mona Lisa to these people.
74
00:05:26,368 --> 00:05:28,179
Prosecution's entitled
to run their own tests
75
00:05:28,203 --> 00:05:29,305
with their own professionals,
76
00:05:29,329 --> 00:05:30,849
but I think we worry about that later.
77
00:05:33,708 --> 00:05:34,918
I mean,
78
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:38,564
there isn't a world where he's anything
79
00:05:38,588 --> 00:05:40,423
but fucking crazy, right?
80
00:05:43,677 --> 00:05:47,156
Gacy. G-a-c-y.
81
00:05:47,180 --> 00:05:51,452
Any reports on his
sentencing, incarceration,
82
00:05:51,476 --> 00:05:53,436
and his release from anamosa state?
83
00:05:53,687 --> 00:05:54,830
Yes. Thank you.
84
00:05:54,854 --> 00:05:57,482
Fax it over as soon
as possible. Thank you.
85
00:06:04,072 --> 00:06:05,633
Appreciate your time, frank.
86
00:06:05,657 --> 00:06:08,469
Yeah. Helluva way to start
your tenure as chief of detectives.
87
00:06:08,493 --> 00:06:11,430
They're, calling it the
"crime of a century."
88
00:06:12,789 --> 00:06:16,185
- Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know?
- Yeah. I do.
89
00:06:16,209 --> 00:06:17,561
So how can I help?
90
00:06:17,585 --> 00:06:21,065
Our investigation recovered
gacy's company payroll.
91
00:06:21,089 --> 00:06:23,192
And detective tovar here
92
00:06:23,216 --> 00:06:25,903
was looking into some
of the employees listed.
93
00:06:25,927 --> 00:06:29,573
A few of them were reported
missing to your division
94
00:06:29,597 --> 00:06:30,783
around the same time.
95
00:06:30,807 --> 00:06:32,868
We're hoping to get some clarification on
96
00:06:32,892 --> 00:06:37,814
what was known about gacy
and when it was known by cpd.
97
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,751
God, I think it's fair to say
nothing was on here, Joe.
98
00:06:40,775 --> 00:06:42,628
Otherwise, we'd intervened.
99
00:06:42,652 --> 00:06:46,573
I'm sorry. You guys dropped the ball.
100
00:06:48,074 --> 00:06:51,178
You know that. We
know that. Let's just...
101
00:06:51,202 --> 00:06:53,681
let's just get this straight
here. It's our ass, too.
102
00:06:53,705 --> 00:06:55,891
We're not trying to pin
anything on Chicago...
103
00:06:55,915 --> 00:06:57,167
It sounds like it.
104
00:06:57,417 --> 00:06:59,145
Help us understand this.
105
00:06:59,169 --> 00:07:02,690
A man convicted of
sodomizing a teen boy
106
00:07:02,714 --> 00:07:04,799
is paroled early to Chicago.
107
00:07:05,133 --> 00:07:07,153
And then his teenage, male employees
108
00:07:07,177 --> 00:07:08,988
start disappearing from the area.
109
00:07:09,012 --> 00:07:11,139
And nobody in your
department looks into the guy?
110
00:07:11,806 --> 00:07:14,035
Nobody taps our officers, lets us know
111
00:07:14,059 --> 00:07:15,995
there might be somebody in
our neighborhood hurting kids?
112
00:07:16,019 --> 00:07:19,814
The families, they're
gonna want an explanation.
113
00:07:20,607 --> 00:07:22,251
And what we are trying to say is that
114
00:07:22,275 --> 00:07:25,028
we are more than willing
to be the first line of defense
115
00:07:25,570 --> 00:07:28,198
if you can help us fill in these gaps.
116
00:07:30,533 --> 00:07:31,969
You, you know
117
00:07:31,993 --> 00:07:34,722
we don't treat every missing
kid as a homicide, right?
118
00:07:34,746 --> 00:07:36,664
Teenagers, especially.
119
00:07:36,915 --> 00:07:41,812
Last year in Chicago, 19,000
kids go missing, 18,000 return,
120
00:07:41,836 --> 00:07:44,315
and blow off a little
steam, they come home.
121
00:07:44,339 --> 00:07:45,858
Except the thousand who don't.
122
00:07:45,882 --> 00:07:49,052
- The szyc kid, I understand.
- There's no direct link to gacy.
123
00:07:50,178 --> 00:07:51,906
Then you have butkovich's father,
124
00:07:51,930 --> 00:07:53,991
and then the parents of
the other missing employee...
125
00:07:54,015 --> 00:07:55,660
Yeah. Greg godzik.
126
00:07:55,684 --> 00:07:56,827
Yeah, we looked into it.
127
00:07:56,851 --> 00:07:58,537
Both families.
128
00:07:58,561 --> 00:07:59,997
We have both families
129
00:08:00,021 --> 00:08:03,858
saying that they were
calling cpd, nonstop.
130
00:08:04,067 --> 00:08:05,169
Mentioning gacy.
131
00:08:05,193 --> 00:08:07,904
Yeah. I... I've read the reports, Joe.
132
00:08:09,698 --> 00:08:11,801
We visited gacy, yeah. Looked into him.
133
00:08:11,825 --> 00:08:12,718
Sometimes.
134
00:08:12,742 --> 00:08:15,161
But these weren't kids.
135
00:08:15,370 --> 00:08:17,014
They're teenagers.
136
00:08:17,038 --> 00:08:18,974
And no known violence had occurred.
137
00:08:18,998 --> 00:08:21,310
No record of foul play.
138
00:08:21,334 --> 00:08:23,020
- No reason...
- We were told...
139
00:08:23,044 --> 00:08:25,022
to request gacy's record whatsoever.
140
00:08:25,046 --> 00:08:27,817
We were told by both families
that they were adamant to cpd
141
00:08:27,841 --> 00:08:29,634
that gacy has something to do with it.
142
00:08:30,385 --> 00:08:32,029
Nobody thought the two missing persons
143
00:08:32,053 --> 00:08:33,763
linked to the same man was odd?
144
00:08:34,097 --> 00:08:36,099
It was just chalked up to coincidence.
145
00:08:39,602 --> 00:08:42,081
This isn't des plaines. It's Chicago.
146
00:08:42,105 --> 00:08:43,606
It's a fucking sprawl.
147
00:08:43,898 --> 00:08:47,777
Butkovich was from
police area six, north side.
148
00:08:48,236 --> 00:08:51,215
The godziks are from
area five, northwest side.
149
00:08:51,239 --> 00:08:55,761
So you got Marko butkovich
calling area six about his son.
150
00:08:55,785 --> 00:08:58,264
You got the godziks
calling area five about theirs.
151
00:08:58,288 --> 00:09:00,891
Sure. Both reports
mentioned a man named gacy,
152
00:09:00,915 --> 00:09:02,727
but how are two different officers
153
00:09:02,751 --> 00:09:06,147
in two different locations
supposed to know that?
154
00:09:06,171 --> 00:09:08,649
When I was at vice, we shared
whatever information we had.
155
00:09:08,673 --> 00:09:11,593
Vice? Yeah. That's why
you're such a fucking asshole.
156
00:09:11,885 --> 00:09:13,988
Vice is where we sent
cowboys and mutts
157
00:09:14,012 --> 00:09:15,305
who can't be fucking muzzled.
158
00:09:17,932 --> 00:09:19,201
You know, part of being a leader
159
00:09:19,225 --> 00:09:21,102
is controlling your subordinate, Joe.
160
00:09:27,817 --> 00:09:30,004
I'm sitting on potentially dozens of bodies
161
00:09:30,028 --> 00:09:31,780
that need to be identified,
162
00:09:33,114 --> 00:09:34,783
and I've run out of road.
163
00:09:35,408 --> 00:09:38,929
Files on every missing
kid that fits gacy's m.O.,
164
00:09:38,953 --> 00:09:40,306
that would be a great help.
165
00:09:40,330 --> 00:09:42,832
Plus, anything you have on gacy himself.
166
00:09:43,041 --> 00:09:44,769
Well, there's a system.
167
00:09:44,793 --> 00:09:46,771
Lotta paperwork, gonna take some time.
168
00:09:46,795 --> 00:09:50,191
Weeks, months... I
understand the system.
169
00:09:50,215 --> 00:09:53,635
I would consider it a favor
for whatever that is worth.
170
00:09:53,843 --> 00:09:55,905
Ship all the files for every missing kid
171
00:09:55,929 --> 00:09:58,115
from 1970 to now over to des plaines.
172
00:09:58,139 --> 00:09:59,391
Well, you got it.
173
00:10:01,309 --> 00:10:06,648
But you'll see, most of
these kids are just troubled.
174
00:10:31,214 --> 00:10:32,733
Where are you two headed?
175
00:11:10,503 --> 00:11:12,356
You don't wanna rent some skates?
176
00:11:12,380 --> 00:11:13,524
Come out here?
177
00:11:13,548 --> 00:11:15,258
Don't have enough cash.
178
00:11:17,052 --> 00:11:18,219
It's Billy, right?
179
00:11:20,221 --> 00:11:21,890
You got a fancy car, too?
180
00:11:22,182 --> 00:11:24,434
No.
181
00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:28,039
How can you afford to
fill that thing up with gas
182
00:11:28,063 --> 00:11:29,373
if you can't afford to skate?
183
00:11:29,397 --> 00:11:31,083
Maybe that's why I can't afford to, honey.
184
00:11:31,107 --> 00:11:32,150
You think of that?
185
00:11:32,901 --> 00:11:34,837
I'm sorry. Danny has a sharp tongue,
186
00:11:34,861 --> 00:11:36,380
and he thinks it's a gift.
187
00:11:42,327 --> 00:11:43,745
What's your gift?
188
00:11:44,454 --> 00:11:47,165
Outrunning cops.
189
00:11:50,043 --> 00:11:51,145
Can I come with you?
190
00:11:53,546 --> 00:11:54,546
Please?
191
00:11:58,134 --> 00:11:59,278
You from Chicago?
192
00:11:59,302 --> 00:12:03,240
Yeah. But, my family,
we lived away for a while,
193
00:12:03,264 --> 00:12:06,101
but I missed the city, so I came back.
194
00:12:08,186 --> 00:12:10,039
What was that your friend was saying?
195
00:12:10,063 --> 00:12:11,106
About you and cops?
196
00:12:16,152 --> 00:12:17,546
Who'd you steal that car from?
197
00:12:24,119 --> 00:12:26,263
If I tell you, will you
go to dinner with me?
198
00:12:36,131 --> 00:12:38,008
I'm happy to have you on the team.
199
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:41,278
That's a helluva 'stache you got on you.
200
00:12:41,302 --> 00:12:42,446
You do somethin' with it?
201
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:44,305
Put somethin' in it to make it so full?
202
00:12:45,140 --> 00:12:46,951
Soap and water.
203
00:12:46,975 --> 00:12:48,911
Hah. Good on you.
204
00:12:48,935 --> 00:12:50,562
All right. Here she is.
205
00:12:51,479 --> 00:12:54,959
Lot of very accomplished,
intelligent psychiatrists
206
00:12:54,983 --> 00:12:56,419
wanted to meet with you, John.
207
00:12:56,443 --> 00:12:58,278
Fought for it even.
208
00:12:58,653 --> 00:13:02,466
Dr. Deborah Healy is
the best out of California.
209
00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:04,969
Flew out here just to see you.
210
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,163
All right then.
211
00:13:09,164 --> 00:13:10,850
You're the lucky winner.
212
00:13:10,874 --> 00:13:12,250
Step right up, head-shrinker.
213
00:13:12,542 --> 00:13:14,085
It's good to meet you.
214
00:13:17,047 --> 00:13:19,007
I'm not being rude. Just...
215
00:13:19,215 --> 00:13:21,235
You're not gonna try anything, are you?
216
00:13:21,259 --> 00:13:24,971
I've always had a thing for blondes.
217
00:13:25,221 --> 00:13:27,182
I suppose that's a no then.
218
00:13:35,565 --> 00:13:36,566
There you go.
219
00:13:41,154 --> 00:13:42,506
That's better.
220
00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:44,050
Before Bob and I go,
221
00:13:44,074 --> 00:13:47,136
we just wanna make sure that
you understand the prosecution
222
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,556
will make use of this evaluation. Okay?
223
00:13:50,580 --> 00:13:54,477
Everything you say will be on the record.
224
00:13:54,501 --> 00:13:55,936
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
225
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,545
I'm happy to talk to whoever,
226
00:13:57,962 --> 00:14:00,566
get the story straight, you know?
227
00:14:00,590 --> 00:14:02,425
Put the blame where it belongs.
228
00:14:05,053 --> 00:14:07,931
All right. Have fun.
229
00:14:16,731 --> 00:14:18,233
So,
230
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,445
what do you want to know?
231
00:14:29,494 --> 00:14:31,389
A good childhood then.
232
00:14:31,413 --> 00:14:34,475
I loved my father. And he loved me.
233
00:14:34,499 --> 00:14:36,251
He was just from the old-school.
234
00:14:36,584 --> 00:14:39,087
A strong man. Strong views.
235
00:14:39,587 --> 00:14:42,066
Guess you could call him
somethin' of a disciplinarian.
236
00:14:47,137 --> 00:14:48,739
Fair to say that he beat you?
237
00:14:51,599 --> 00:14:52,994
Put it this way.
238
00:14:53,018 --> 00:14:55,579
Pop liked his drink, liked his sports,
239
00:14:55,603 --> 00:14:58,040
liked his son actin' like a man.
240
00:14:58,064 --> 00:15:01,460
But I liked gardening, baking with my ma.
241
00:15:01,484 --> 00:15:04,195
I was sickly. Couldn't throw a ball.
242
00:15:04,738 --> 00:15:07,258
And the things I liked...
243
00:15:12,203 --> 00:15:14,765
You like wearing the panties?
244
00:15:14,789 --> 00:15:17,268
Maybe enjoyed dressing like a woman?
245
00:15:17,292 --> 00:15:20,604
Hell no.
246
00:15:20,628 --> 00:15:22,106
God. No.
247
00:15:22,130 --> 00:15:23,607
The feel is all.
248
00:15:23,631 --> 00:15:25,467
I stole 'em for the feel.
249
00:15:41,691 --> 00:15:45,212
You buried them? Under the house?
250
00:15:45,236 --> 00:15:47,715
Why not borrow the panties?
251
00:15:47,739 --> 00:15:49,592
Return them to the drawer?
252
00:15:49,616 --> 00:15:52,327
There was no putting them back
253
00:15:53,078 --> 00:15:57,123
because I'd use them for, for private sex.
254
00:15:58,291 --> 00:16:01,503
"Private sex"? Masturbation?
255
00:16:02,337 --> 00:16:04,089
Boys will be boys.
256
00:16:07,258 --> 00:16:10,095
This is your typical oedipus complex.
257
00:16:11,763 --> 00:16:13,157
Jesus Christ.
258
00:16:13,181 --> 00:16:14,408
Let me explain it to you.
259
00:16:14,432 --> 00:16:16,661
It's an obsession with the mother.
260
00:16:16,685 --> 00:16:19,330
It's a competition with
the father, yada yada.
261
00:16:19,354 --> 00:16:20,498
I know all about this stuff
262
00:16:20,522 --> 00:16:22,083
'cause I read lots of books in psychology.
263
00:16:22,107 --> 00:16:23,650
I could recommend some to you.
264
00:16:24,484 --> 00:16:26,361
That's very kind.
265
00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:30,383
I can pretend to be a
virgin if it's ruinin' your fun.
266
00:16:30,407 --> 00:16:32,468
Give you the feelin' you're
poppin' my head cherry?
267
00:16:32,492 --> 00:16:34,345
No need to pretend.
268
00:16:34,369 --> 00:16:37,706
It's good to talk to
someone so knowledgeable.
269
00:16:40,083 --> 00:16:41,310
May I ask, John.
270
00:16:41,334 --> 00:16:44,271
Your mother caught
you. Were you punished?
271
00:16:46,381 --> 00:16:47,507
Yeah.
272
00:16:47,757 --> 00:16:48,818
And the old man never quit
273
00:16:48,842 --> 00:16:50,635
tryin' to beat the sissy out of me.
274
00:16:51,344 --> 00:16:54,865
But I got older. Got tired of it.
275
00:16:54,889 --> 00:16:56,701
Always dealing with him.
276
00:16:56,725 --> 00:16:59,185
Like a different person
when he was drinking.
277
00:16:59,436 --> 00:17:03,773
And this one night, he
wrestled me to the ground.
278
00:17:04,733 --> 00:17:06,210
He was drunk.
279
00:17:06,234 --> 00:17:08,212
He was cursing at me, beating on me,
280
00:17:08,236 --> 00:17:09,797
but I managed to get on top of him
281
00:17:09,821 --> 00:17:12,675
and hold him down. All right?
282
00:17:12,699 --> 00:17:14,010
And he was screaming at me.
283
00:17:14,034 --> 00:17:17,346
"Hit me!" He was saying,
"hit me! Come on. Hit me!"
284
00:17:17,370 --> 00:17:19,598
Calling me a coward.
"Hit me, you coward!"
285
00:17:19,622 --> 00:17:21,124
Did you hit him?
286
00:17:25,503 --> 00:17:27,231
I only held him down.
287
00:17:27,255 --> 00:17:29,382
Just held him there.
288
00:17:35,388 --> 00:17:37,140
Told him, "I love you."
289
00:17:39,934 --> 00:17:42,103
"I won't hit you. I love you."
290
00:17:48,401 --> 00:17:50,111
I took off that night.
291
00:17:51,154 --> 00:17:54,258
I figured if I left and
made somethin' of myself,
292
00:17:54,282 --> 00:17:55,468
I'd come back
293
00:17:55,492 --> 00:17:57,636
and he'd have a reason
to be proud of me.
294
00:17:58,870 --> 00:18:00,890
I made my way to sin city.
295
00:18:00,914 --> 00:18:02,600
It sounded so neat.
296
00:18:02,624 --> 00:18:04,644
What was your plan?
297
00:18:04,668 --> 00:18:06,378
I didn't have one.
298
00:18:06,836 --> 00:18:09,607
No. I just focused on trying to find work,
299
00:18:09,631 --> 00:18:12,443
and it was a lot harder than I figured.
300
00:18:12,467 --> 00:18:15,696
I tried banks, schools, casinos.
301
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,865
Nobody would hire me
because I was underage.
302
00:18:17,889 --> 00:18:19,283
I almost tucked tail, turned around,
303
00:18:19,307 --> 00:18:22,578
went back home, but then, a miracle.
304
00:18:24,229 --> 00:18:25,730
They were lookin' for a janitor.
305
00:18:26,064 --> 00:18:28,584
I met the mortician, Ben.
306
00:18:28,608 --> 00:18:30,628
He seemed real hesitant at first,
307
00:18:30,652 --> 00:18:32,338
but I told him that not everything in life
308
00:18:32,362 --> 00:18:33,923
is about a diploma.
309
00:18:33,947 --> 00:18:36,425
Sometimes it's about passion, and drive,
310
00:18:36,449 --> 00:18:37,677
and a way with people.
311
00:18:37,701 --> 00:18:39,804
I didn't need some fancy diploma.
312
00:18:39,828 --> 00:18:42,223
I had people skills.
313
00:18:42,247 --> 00:18:44,600
And he saw that. He
hired me on the spot.
314
00:18:44,624 --> 00:18:46,310
Janitor/night watchman.
315
00:18:47,794 --> 00:18:49,689
Yeah, I was just a teenager
movin' up in the world.
316
00:18:49,713 --> 00:18:52,465
I was so, so damn excited.
317
00:19:00,223 --> 00:19:01,659
He even gave me a cot,
318
00:19:01,683 --> 00:19:03,852
let me sleep right next to
where he did the embalming.
319
00:19:05,687 --> 00:19:06,914
So he believed in me.
320
00:19:06,938 --> 00:19:08,457
Understood I was a hard worker.
321
00:19:08,481 --> 00:19:10,692
I was working the
night shift, 7:00 to 7:00.
322
00:19:11,443 --> 00:19:16,865
Also, I got a chance to learn
some, watching him work.
323
00:20:02,410 --> 00:20:03,661
John?
324
00:20:05,455 --> 00:20:06,539
John?
325
00:20:08,291 --> 00:20:09,417
John?
326
00:20:12,045 --> 00:20:13,755
Everything okay?
327
00:20:17,592 --> 00:20:21,680
Yeah. Yeah, just a nice memory.
328
00:20:32,607 --> 00:20:34,835
- It was my grandfather's.
- That's nice.
329
00:20:34,859 --> 00:20:37,696
You're gonna steal it?
330
00:20:39,072 --> 00:20:41,050
You don't look like a thief.
331
00:20:41,074 --> 00:20:42,259
Okay.
332
00:20:42,283 --> 00:20:44,661
What does a... what
does a thief look like?
333
00:20:45,995 --> 00:20:49,708
You dress well, and you're polite.
334
00:20:49,958 --> 00:20:51,560
- Well, that...
- yeah, okay.
335
00:20:51,584 --> 00:20:53,312
Thank you.
336
00:20:53,336 --> 00:20:55,064
- That's my mom.
- She's,
337
00:20:55,088 --> 00:20:59,384
always on me about taking
pride in my appearance.
338
00:20:59,843 --> 00:21:01,862
She taught me how to iron,
how to crease my clothes.
339
00:21:01,886 --> 00:21:04,490
Where is she?
340
00:21:04,514 --> 00:21:07,350
Ohio with my siblings.
341
00:21:08,018 --> 00:21:09,769
How many are you?
342
00:21:10,478 --> 00:21:11,813
Five.
343
00:21:12,355 --> 00:21:14,834
And I'm the oldest, so,
344
00:21:14,858 --> 00:21:16,651
you know, I kind of raised them.
345
00:21:16,985 --> 00:21:19,779
My, my mom was always working.
346
00:21:20,363 --> 00:21:22,800
And so, every day after school,
347
00:21:22,824 --> 00:21:24,510
I was alone with them when
they were little, you know?
348
00:21:24,534 --> 00:21:25,970
So they'd always be tugging on me
349
00:21:25,994 --> 00:21:27,471
and asking me for stuff,
350
00:21:27,495 --> 00:21:30,975
like toys and candy and chips, whatever.
351
00:21:30,999 --> 00:21:34,145
And, and I felt bad 'cause
I didn't have any money.
352
00:21:34,169 --> 00:21:38,089
So, so I started stealing
the stuff they were asking for.
353
00:21:39,924 --> 00:21:42,344
I realized it was pretty
easy. I was good at it.
354
00:21:44,888 --> 00:21:46,890
You ever worry you'll get caught?
355
00:21:48,391 --> 00:21:50,060
Yeah, I've been caught a few times.
356
00:21:51,770 --> 00:21:53,938
My mom made a point not to bail me out,
357
00:21:54,147 --> 00:21:55,732
but you learn from it.
358
00:21:55,982 --> 00:21:58,777
You figure out what to do to
not get caught the next time.
359
00:21:59,194 --> 00:22:02,822
What matters is you make it
home at the end of the night.
360
00:22:06,451 --> 00:22:08,828
I feel like you've lived so much.
361
00:22:10,622 --> 00:22:11,956
We'll, you're a girl.
362
00:22:12,207 --> 00:22:15,686
When you're a girl, everybody helps you,
363
00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:17,545
get you back on track.
364
00:22:18,046 --> 00:22:21,150
If you're in trouble, people
assume the best of you.
365
00:22:21,174 --> 00:22:24,928
If you're a guy, they assume the worst.
366
00:22:26,096 --> 00:22:29,599
Be told to man up, figure it out.
367
00:22:31,935 --> 00:22:33,812
I've never thought of it like that.
368
00:22:34,896 --> 00:22:37,691
It's okay. I figured it out.
369
00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:41,736
I got a place, I got nice clothes, I can eat.
370
00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:43,822
Take out a pretty girl.
371
00:22:48,618 --> 00:22:49,911
Okay. You ready?
372
00:22:51,955 --> 00:22:53,081
For what?
373
00:22:54,082 --> 00:22:55,625
It's time to dash.
374
00:22:58,545 --> 00:22:59,754
No.
375
00:23:00,422 --> 00:23:02,233
But now I'm kind of
giving away the gambit,
376
00:23:02,257 --> 00:23:04,235
- come on, we gotta go.
- Right.
377
00:23:19,983 --> 00:23:21,544
You didn't hold your tongue downtown,
378
00:23:21,568 --> 00:23:22,569
why are you doing it now?
379
00:23:23,945 --> 00:23:25,047
It's nothing.
380
00:23:25,071 --> 00:23:26,781
Stop lookin' at me like that.
381
00:23:30,618 --> 00:23:32,763
I just didn't know you
were such a kiss-ass is all.
382
00:23:32,787 --> 00:23:33,955
Okay.
383
00:23:35,707 --> 00:23:38,019
Cpd didn't kill those
kids and neither did you.
384
00:23:38,043 --> 00:23:40,479
So put down your
pitchfork and your cross
385
00:23:40,503 --> 00:23:41,814
and start flipping through the pages,
386
00:23:41,838 --> 00:23:43,607
- you son of a bitch.
- Why are you defending them?
387
00:23:43,631 --> 00:23:45,234
It's a massive department.
388
00:23:45,258 --> 00:23:47,695
This was not on purpose.
It wasn't malicious.
389
00:23:47,719 --> 00:23:49,113
Gacy fell through the cracks.
390
00:23:49,137 --> 00:23:51,181
Timmons said it himself. You heard him.
391
00:23:51,598 --> 00:23:53,951
He told us that we're gonna
go through all these files,
392
00:23:53,975 --> 00:23:55,578
and we're gonna see that
all these kids were troubled.
393
00:23:55,602 --> 00:23:57,538
Yeah, they're troubled.
394
00:23:57,562 --> 00:24:00,791
Drugs, runaways, gangs, delinquents.
395
00:24:00,815 --> 00:24:02,126
- Timmons was right.
- Exactly.
396
00:24:02,150 --> 00:24:04,837
- That's my fucking point.
- Finally, a fucking point.
397
00:24:04,861 --> 00:24:08,507
All right. Police area
73 doesn't communicate
398
00:24:08,531 --> 00:24:10,885
with police area 773, fine.
399
00:24:10,909 --> 00:24:12,386
But how about this?
400
00:24:12,410 --> 00:24:14,662
How many pages are in each
of those files, give or take?
401
00:24:16,039 --> 00:24:18,517
I don't know. Couple.
402
00:24:18,541 --> 00:24:20,001
That's what I'm saying.
403
00:24:20,377 --> 00:24:22,504
There's fucking nothing in here.
404
00:24:23,129 --> 00:24:28,009
Two pages. Two pages. Three pages.
405
00:24:29,010 --> 00:24:32,657
Most of these are just the
initial missing persons report.
406
00:24:32,681 --> 00:24:33,866
There's no field interviews,
407
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:35,117
there's no contact with the person
408
00:24:35,141 --> 00:24:36,160
that reported them missing.
409
00:24:36,184 --> 00:24:37,328
Chicago didn't follow up.
410
00:24:37,352 --> 00:24:38,520
This?
411
00:24:39,145 --> 00:24:41,540
You would really not have to give a fuck
412
00:24:41,564 --> 00:24:43,024
to wind up with one page.
413
00:24:45,902 --> 00:24:47,630
But you don't get it.
414
00:24:47,654 --> 00:24:49,090
And it's not your fault
that you don't get it.
415
00:24:49,114 --> 00:24:50,699
You're not in the muck.
416
00:24:51,366 --> 00:24:53,135
You didn't have Marko butkovich's spit
417
00:24:53,159 --> 00:24:55,596
all over your face, all right?
418
00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:57,014
You're making this personal.
419
00:24:57,038 --> 00:24:58,623
Well, fuck yeah, I am.
420
00:24:59,708 --> 00:25:01,102
And that's not my fault.
421
00:25:02,085 --> 00:25:03,211
Sorry.
422
00:25:04,045 --> 00:25:05,022
What?
423
00:25:05,046 --> 00:25:06,148
Body we ID'd?
424
00:25:06,172 --> 00:25:09,026
Godzik? Mom's here.
425
00:25:09,050 --> 00:25:11,720
Wants to talk to somebody.
426
00:25:12,721 --> 00:25:15,598
She's got her kid's
dental records and teeth.
427
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:19,245
I can go do this.
428
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:22,814
No. It's not your job.
429
00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:10,820
Now, when you came home, how did...
430
00:26:16,326 --> 00:26:18,244
Excuse me for a moment.
431
00:26:24,334 --> 00:26:28,129
Sorry. I know I have
another pen somewhere.
432
00:26:33,009 --> 00:26:35,011
Yes. Vegas.
433
00:26:35,512 --> 00:26:38,765
How did your family react
when you came home?
434
00:26:40,350 --> 00:26:42,018
This is a mess.
435
00:26:46,856 --> 00:26:49,418
Is it bothering you?
436
00:26:49,442 --> 00:26:52,362
Better question is, why
isn't it bothering you?
437
00:26:53,780 --> 00:26:55,257
If cleanliness is godliness,
438
00:26:55,281 --> 00:26:57,242
you're a goddamn heathen, aren't you?
439
00:27:02,997 --> 00:27:04,874
You're not gonna tidy up?
440
00:27:06,084 --> 00:27:07,335
Clean it.
441
00:27:10,338 --> 00:27:11,423
Clean it!
442
00:27:35,155 --> 00:27:36,448
The jacket.
443
00:27:48,376 --> 00:27:50,086
Ma forgave me.
444
00:27:50,337 --> 00:27:54,066
And pop felt it was time
to move out, find a girl.
445
00:27:54,090 --> 00:27:55,342
And he wasn't wrong.
446
00:27:56,259 --> 00:27:58,821
I wanted to show him that
I could do okay for myself
447
00:27:58,845 --> 00:28:00,239
on my own.
448
00:28:00,263 --> 00:28:02,950
I found a job at a men's
clothing store not too far,
449
00:28:02,974 --> 00:28:04,225
in Springfield.
450
00:28:05,018 --> 00:28:07,371
And that's where I met my first wife.
451
00:28:18,406 --> 00:28:21,159
Had such a nice, warm
feeling with marlynn.
452
00:28:21,785 --> 00:28:24,597
I always wanted to be
a father, a family man,
453
00:28:24,621 --> 00:28:26,122
and I finally was.
454
00:28:32,087 --> 00:28:33,314
I loved the kids.
455
00:28:33,338 --> 00:28:35,107
It's hard being away from them.
456
00:28:35,131 --> 00:28:37,943
You, you were away often?
457
00:28:37,967 --> 00:28:41,221
Well, my father-in-law put
me in charge of his restaurants.
458
00:28:42,138 --> 00:28:45,159
So he clearly liked you, respected you?
459
00:28:45,183 --> 00:28:47,286
No, I don't know about that.
460
00:28:47,310 --> 00:28:49,854
I think he just wanted what
was best for his little girl.
461
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,292
Was your father-in-law
difficult to impress?
462
00:28:53,316 --> 00:28:56,861
He was demanding. He
didn't approve of me easy.
463
00:28:57,445 --> 00:29:00,383
So you inherited another father figure
464
00:29:00,407 --> 00:29:02,259
whose approval you couldn't earn?
465
00:29:02,283 --> 00:29:04,428
No, no.
466
00:29:04,452 --> 00:29:07,956
No, my father-in-law
was tough on me, but...
467
00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:11,501
shit.
468
00:29:12,877 --> 00:29:14,212
You're real good.
469
00:29:17,048 --> 00:29:20,343
Well, whatever it was with
him, it helped with my dad.
470
00:29:22,512 --> 00:29:24,657
'Cause ma told him how well I was doin'
471
00:29:24,681 --> 00:29:27,243
and he just had to
come see it for himself.
472
00:29:50,165 --> 00:29:52,292
He was proud of me that day.
473
00:29:52,625 --> 00:29:54,336
I know he was.
474
00:29:54,669 --> 00:29:56,230
Because he told me so.
475
00:29:56,254 --> 00:29:58,399
We were sitting there
splittin' a bucket of biscuits
476
00:29:58,423 --> 00:30:00,401
and he looked me dead in the eye,
477
00:30:00,425 --> 00:30:03,487
and he says, "I was
wrong about you, John."
478
00:30:03,511 --> 00:30:05,323
Good wife, good kids, good job.
479
00:30:05,347 --> 00:30:09,267
"You done good." Just like that.
480
00:30:11,686 --> 00:30:13,396
"You done good."
481
00:30:15,732 --> 00:30:17,525
Was on top of the world.
482
00:30:17,817 --> 00:30:20,528
Around that time is when I
got hooked up with the jaycees.
483
00:30:27,118 --> 00:30:28,262
The social club?
484
00:30:28,286 --> 00:30:31,390
Social club? Jaycees is about politics.
485
00:30:31,414 --> 00:30:34,727
Means for young men to get
into a network of professionals.
486
00:30:34,751 --> 00:30:37,063
You wind up meetin' important people,
487
00:30:37,087 --> 00:30:38,939
organizin' charitable events together.
488
00:30:38,963 --> 00:30:40,566
You have a love for politics.
489
00:30:40,590 --> 00:30:42,401
Politics is about power.
490
00:30:42,425 --> 00:30:44,403
Power depends on consent.
491
00:30:44,427 --> 00:30:45,613
That's a quote from
492
00:30:45,637 --> 00:30:48,223
"main currents in
modern political thought."
493
00:30:48,932 --> 00:30:52,536
Lotta folks don't know that's all politics is.
494
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,563
The feelin' of bein' important,
that people trust you.
495
00:30:55,772 --> 00:30:57,607
And you like power.
496
00:30:58,650 --> 00:31:00,110
Don't you?
497
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:04,698
You sittin' there,
498
00:31:05,365 --> 00:31:07,617
jottin' whatever you're jottin'.
499
00:31:10,036 --> 00:31:12,163
Judgin' me when you
don't even know me?
500
00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:18,521
At one point, the head of our chapter,
501
00:31:18,545 --> 00:31:21,148
he asked me personally for
my help recruitin' new members.
502
00:31:21,172 --> 00:31:22,632
That's how much they trusted me.
503
00:31:23,550 --> 00:31:27,321
After a while, I got this
notion to start showin' films
504
00:31:27,345 --> 00:31:29,281
after our meetings to draw interest.
505
00:31:45,238 --> 00:31:48,450
Whoa!
506
00:31:49,284 --> 00:31:50,285
Let's go!
507
00:31:50,827 --> 00:31:51,804
Yeah!
508
00:31:51,828 --> 00:31:54,181
Woo-hoo!
509
00:31:55,707 --> 00:31:57,584
Membership tripled.
510
00:32:00,795 --> 00:32:02,315
You like stag films?
511
00:32:02,339 --> 00:32:04,066
Never seen one.
512
00:32:04,090 --> 00:32:05,776
My god.
513
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,135
Yeah?
514
00:32:08,178 --> 00:32:10,114
Okay.
515
00:32:10,138 --> 00:32:12,182
You can't bullshit a bullshitter.
516
00:32:15,769 --> 00:32:19,332
Anyway, everybody agreed
there was no harm in it,
517
00:32:19,356 --> 00:32:21,167
and it kind of snowballed,
518
00:32:21,191 --> 00:32:23,443
and this idea of wife swapping came up.
519
00:32:23,818 --> 00:32:25,671
Even got marlynn into it.
520
00:32:25,695 --> 00:32:29,324
And all of a sudden, I
could fuck whoever I wanted.
521
00:32:29,866 --> 00:32:31,677
Even other men's wives.
522
00:32:31,701 --> 00:32:34,347
That's just how powerful I was.
523
00:32:34,371 --> 00:32:37,308
Plus, I had good
standin' in the community,
524
00:32:37,332 --> 00:32:39,352
so I thought I might as well
525
00:32:39,376 --> 00:32:41,646
run for president of
the Waterloo jaycees.
526
00:32:45,507 --> 00:32:47,801
And that's how I met Don vorhees.
527
00:32:48,343 --> 00:32:50,321
Local politician.
528
00:32:50,345 --> 00:32:53,074
Offered to be my campaign manager.
529
00:33:01,815 --> 00:33:04,335
Met him and his son.
530
00:33:19,874 --> 00:33:22,353
One day I was drivin', right?
531
00:33:22,377 --> 00:33:23,562
Just goin' about my day.
532
00:33:23,586 --> 00:33:26,399
I saw his son, Don Jr., hitchhikin'.
533
00:33:26,423 --> 00:33:27,799
I give him a ride.
534
00:33:28,174 --> 00:33:30,135
Pickin' him up that day.
535
00:33:30,635 --> 00:33:34,240
Probably the worst mistake of my life.
536
00:33:34,264 --> 00:33:36,867
Marlynn was out of town
visiting her mother at the time
537
00:33:36,891 --> 00:33:41,271
and Don sr. Was a nice guy, I thought.
538
00:33:41,521 --> 00:33:44,107
So I assumed that
his son was a nice kid.
539
00:33:46,317 --> 00:33:48,278
I was dumb and stupid.
540
00:33:52,574 --> 00:33:54,468
Pop always said that to me,
541
00:33:54,492 --> 00:33:56,679
that I shouldn't be so dumb and stupid.
542
00:33:56,703 --> 00:33:59,247
"Don't be so dumb and
stupid, John Wayne."
543
00:34:00,832 --> 00:34:02,351
I should have listened.
544
00:34:33,782 --> 00:34:35,742
Because I'm gullible like that.
545
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:39,329
That's my fault. I just, I, I trust too easy.
546
00:34:39,662 --> 00:34:42,850
You feel this boy took
advantage of your good nature?
547
00:34:42,874 --> 00:34:44,894
Kid ruined my life.
548
00:34:44,918 --> 00:34:47,980
Just when things were going
perfect with my family, my pops.
549
00:34:48,004 --> 00:34:51,359
And for what? He wanted it, I wanted it.
550
00:34:51,383 --> 00:34:53,944
Are you saying it was a
consensual relationship?
551
00:34:53,968 --> 00:34:56,322
- Damn right it was.
- He was a teenager.
552
00:34:56,346 --> 00:34:57,847
You were a man.
553
00:34:58,682 --> 00:35:01,786
Okay. See, you don't understand.
554
00:35:01,810 --> 00:35:03,329
You don't understand at all.
555
00:35:03,353 --> 00:35:04,830
He and I had an agreement.
556
00:35:04,854 --> 00:35:06,666
I didn't force him to do anything.
557
00:35:06,690 --> 00:35:09,335
He asked for money and I paid him.
558
00:35:09,359 --> 00:35:11,003
Then he wanted more.
559
00:35:11,027 --> 00:35:13,673
I says no, he starts talking
about telling his father,
560
00:35:13,697 --> 00:35:14,715
and that is blackmail.
561
00:35:14,739 --> 00:35:16,825
Pure and simple, that is blackmail.
562
00:35:17,075 --> 00:35:19,828
And this is a fairy trait too, you know.
563
00:35:20,036 --> 00:35:22,556
Lyin', flippin', changing their word.
564
00:35:22,580 --> 00:35:24,642
One moment this is okay, the next it isn't.
565
00:35:24,666 --> 00:35:27,311
Or there isn't enough
money anymore. They're liars.
566
00:35:27,335 --> 00:35:30,231
You speak with great disdain for fairies.
567
00:35:30,255 --> 00:35:31,941
You hate them. Why?
568
00:35:31,965 --> 00:35:33,442
They're weak.
569
00:35:33,466 --> 00:35:36,553
You feel as though you're a
different kind of homosexual?
570
00:35:39,723 --> 00:35:42,225
You've been listenin'
to a word that I've said?
571
00:35:42,851 --> 00:35:44,436
I'm not a homosexual.
572
00:35:44,686 --> 00:35:47,832
Sorry, it's only that you're
telling me you seek out men.
573
00:35:47,856 --> 00:35:49,250
I'm not a fuckin' fairy.
574
00:35:49,274 --> 00:35:51,711
But you spend money
to have sex with them.
575
00:35:51,735 --> 00:35:54,571
- Christ's sake!
- This is ridiculous.
576
00:35:55,572 --> 00:35:57,240
You are not listenin'.
577
00:35:57,782 --> 00:35:59,760
How can you get an
accurate account of my mind
578
00:35:59,784 --> 00:36:02,430
when you're not listenin'
to a thing that I'm tellin' you?
579
00:36:02,454 --> 00:36:03,788
This is sloppy.
580
00:36:04,205 --> 00:36:05,558
I'm gonna get on Sam about this.
581
00:36:05,582 --> 00:36:06,934
You're a woman for cryin' out loud.
582
00:36:06,958 --> 00:36:08,436
You can't understand how complicated
583
00:36:08,460 --> 00:36:10,253
gettin' off can be for a guy.
584
00:36:10,962 --> 00:36:13,733
They need a boy psychiatrist,
a male psychiatrist in here.
585
00:36:13,757 --> 00:36:15,925
I apologize. I was wrong.
586
00:36:16,468 --> 00:36:18,612
Wrong to assume you're homosexual.
587
00:36:18,636 --> 00:36:21,681
That's... that it's not what you said to me.
588
00:36:28,730 --> 00:36:29,939
I'm not mad.
589
00:36:31,983 --> 00:36:33,836
I'm not mad at you, Deb.
590
00:36:33,860 --> 00:36:35,653
I'm sorry I lost it a bit.
591
00:36:36,321 --> 00:36:37,590
I'm trying to tell you, you don't...
592
00:36:37,614 --> 00:36:39,449
you don't seem to understand me.
593
00:36:40,825 --> 00:36:42,053
And everybody's getting this wrong.
594
00:36:42,077 --> 00:36:43,596
Everyone's getting me wrong.
595
00:36:43,620 --> 00:36:45,639
- That's frustrating.
- It is.
596
00:36:45,663 --> 00:36:47,350
And the thing is,
597
00:36:47,374 --> 00:36:49,644
I'm not the monster image that's
being portrayed in the papers.
598
00:36:49,668 --> 00:36:51,002
There's no truth to it.
599
00:36:51,628 --> 00:36:54,422
I was the one taken advantage of.
600
00:36:54,631 --> 00:36:57,777
And that's what all the lawyers
and the cops are missing.
601
00:36:57,801 --> 00:37:01,739
Everyone's got this
tunnel vision for these guys
602
00:37:01,763 --> 00:37:03,991
that I was dealing with,
labeling them "victims"
603
00:37:04,015 --> 00:37:06,369
like they were altar boys or something.
604
00:37:06,393 --> 00:37:07,995
The focus has all been on them.
605
00:37:08,019 --> 00:37:09,538
But what was done to you?
606
00:37:09,562 --> 00:37:13,066
Exactly. Exactly.
607
00:37:13,650 --> 00:37:15,336
And what I don't understand is,
608
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,779
why are you the first
person to ask me that, Deb?
609
00:37:19,989 --> 00:37:23,636
"Please don't help Mr. Gacy.
610
00:37:23,660 --> 00:37:26,788
He's been blowing and
jerking and molesting me."
611
00:37:28,998 --> 00:37:31,060
The court was a joke.
612
00:37:31,084 --> 00:37:33,396
Do you know that when
the sentencing report
613
00:37:33,420 --> 00:37:35,064
came back from Iowa state hospital,
614
00:37:35,088 --> 00:37:37,757
they recommended
that I be given probation?
615
00:37:38,758 --> 00:37:40,111
Probation.
616
00:37:40,135 --> 00:37:42,345
Was never supposed to go to prison.
617
00:37:42,804 --> 00:37:45,015
Then they sentence me to ten years.
618
00:37:47,559 --> 00:37:48,810
You know,
619
00:37:49,519 --> 00:37:52,105
I don't even think my
pops was surprised.
620
00:37:53,690 --> 00:37:55,567
It was like he expected it.
621
00:37:58,028 --> 00:38:00,947
Said something about how he
had to work twice as hard now,
622
00:38:01,656 --> 00:38:04,075
to wipe out the blot on his good name.
623
00:38:09,456 --> 00:38:11,041
I was the blot.
624
00:38:24,846 --> 00:38:26,848
Nice of you to join us.
625
00:38:28,016 --> 00:38:29,410
All right. Let's go.
626
00:38:29,434 --> 00:38:31,554
Let's make the most out
of the last hours of the day.
627
00:38:32,479 --> 00:38:33,480
I'll help.
628
00:38:41,988 --> 00:38:45,033
It wasn't a jab. I'd take
any excuse not to be here.
629
00:38:46,993 --> 00:38:49,889
Yeah, believe it or not, I'd
rather been here instead.
630
00:38:49,913 --> 00:38:51,349
Yeah, pretty easy day, really.
631
00:38:51,373 --> 00:38:52,892
One kid still had his shoes on,
632
00:38:52,916 --> 00:38:54,959
so he didn't spill any bones anywhere.
633
00:39:03,009 --> 00:39:04,427
How was your Christmas?
634
00:39:07,889 --> 00:39:10,100
Got a couple of dandyburgers.
635
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,268
Got a little drunk.
636
00:39:13,603 --> 00:39:15,331
Passed a lot out.
637
00:39:15,355 --> 00:39:17,023
How about yourself?
638
00:39:21,152 --> 00:39:23,029
I wasn't my best.
639
00:39:24,906 --> 00:39:25,990
Yeah?
640
00:39:28,451 --> 00:39:30,453
I couldn't really talk much
641
00:39:32,330 --> 00:39:34,082
and they all noticed.
642
00:39:40,422 --> 00:39:43,150
Growing up, all I wanted
was to push a black and white,
643
00:39:43,174 --> 00:39:45,969
catch bad guys, you
know, like in the movies.
644
00:39:48,054 --> 00:39:51,141
Yeah. How's that working out for you?
645
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:54,561
I'm digging fucking
bodies up out of a floor.
646
00:39:59,149 --> 00:40:00,984
So pretty fucking good?
647
00:40:04,487 --> 00:40:07,991
Yeah. Pretty fucking good.
648
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,160
I imagine prison was
649
00:40:34,184 --> 00:40:37,371
quite a shocking experience for you,
650
00:40:37,395 --> 00:40:40,065
given that you'd never have
been in legal trouble before.
651
00:40:41,232 --> 00:40:42,567
I was terrified.
652
00:40:43,151 --> 00:40:45,236
Worried someone was gonna rape me.
653
00:40:45,528 --> 00:40:48,549
But I did everything I could to
make the best of a bad situation
654
00:40:48,573 --> 00:40:51,034
and restore honor to my dad's name.
655
00:40:51,576 --> 00:40:56,265
After a while, things ended up being fine.
656
00:40:56,289 --> 00:40:58,500
There's this, this one older fella
657
00:40:59,376 --> 00:41:01,211
a few cells down from me.
658
00:41:01,544 --> 00:41:03,380
He's a real talented painter.
659
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,943
I'm better than him but, he was still good.
660
00:41:07,967 --> 00:41:10,112
And I asked him if he would paint
661
00:41:10,136 --> 00:41:13,098
my father's portrait from
a photo that I'd brought in.
662
00:41:13,765 --> 00:41:15,392
I wanted to gift it to him.
663
00:41:18,436 --> 00:41:21,374
He took his sweet-ass time.
664
00:41:21,398 --> 00:41:24,484
Had to keep on him. Fucking artist.
665
00:41:25,402 --> 00:41:27,404
Took him three months to finish.
666
00:41:27,654 --> 00:41:30,365
My old man died before
I could give it to him.
667
00:41:31,574 --> 00:41:33,910
Christmas day, '69.
668
00:41:35,370 --> 00:41:39,374
How'd you feel when
you found out he passed?
669
00:41:41,584 --> 00:41:45,505
Like I killed him. The
shame of it killed him.
670
00:41:45,922 --> 00:41:48,508
His death profoundly affected you.
671
00:41:50,385 --> 00:41:52,095
He was my dad.
672
00:41:52,554 --> 00:41:54,556
How did you deal with it?
673
00:41:56,599 --> 00:41:59,078
What? I'm not sure.
674
00:41:59,102 --> 00:42:03,356
I mean, that's life?
675
00:42:04,190 --> 00:42:05,608
Shit happens?
676
00:42:08,570 --> 00:42:11,322
I got let out a little while later. Paroled.
677
00:42:11,573 --> 00:42:13,509
Early. Remarkably early.
678
00:42:13,533 --> 00:42:15,261
Yeah. They knew I didn't belong there.
679
00:42:15,285 --> 00:42:16,721
Was a model inmate.
680
00:42:16,745 --> 00:42:19,039
They studied me like you're doing now.
681
00:42:19,372 --> 00:42:21,374
Doctors, parole board.
682
00:42:22,167 --> 00:42:24,603
They found me to be a near-perfect case
683
00:42:24,627 --> 00:42:26,272
of rehabilitation.
684
00:42:26,296 --> 00:42:28,274
Figured I benefited society.
685
00:42:28,298 --> 00:42:30,550
Let me out after 18 months.
686
00:42:30,967 --> 00:42:35,138
And that says everything
you need to know right there.
687
00:42:41,644 --> 00:42:43,372
I just wish I could've
made him proud of me
688
00:42:43,396 --> 00:42:44,522
one more time.
689
00:42:58,620 --> 00:43:01,122
Never saw marlynn or my kids after that.
690
00:43:02,123 --> 00:43:03,809
- Why?
- She took them.
691
00:43:03,833 --> 00:43:05,168
Nothing I could do.
692
00:43:05,752 --> 00:43:08,314
It's fairly commonplace in a divorce,
693
00:43:08,338 --> 00:43:10,441
fathers work something out,
694
00:43:10,465 --> 00:43:14,010
arrange to see their kids
on holidays, what have you.
695
00:43:14,386 --> 00:43:17,514
Even incarcerated people
still see their children.
696
00:43:17,847 --> 00:43:20,159
Did marlynn prevent
you from seeing them
697
00:43:20,183 --> 00:43:21,351
or did you stay away?
698
00:43:21,601 --> 00:43:23,746
It just boils down to
she took them from me.
699
00:43:23,770 --> 00:43:27,065
I only ask because you were
so invested in being a father.
700
00:43:27,691 --> 00:43:28,876
I don't understand.
701
00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:31,504
Just go back to that time, in your mind,
702
00:43:31,528 --> 00:43:34,173
to how you felt when you were released.
703
00:43:34,197 --> 00:43:36,533
I mean, your kids were quite young.
704
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,096
You'd only been away a year and a half.
705
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:41,681
You didn't reach out. Why?
706
00:43:41,705 --> 00:43:43,099
See, you're going in circles now.
707
00:43:43,123 --> 00:43:45,267
Did some part of you feel
relieved they were gone?
708
00:43:45,291 --> 00:43:46,519
Okay. We're not going into that.
709
00:43:46,543 --> 00:43:48,187
Knowing you had this
proclivity for young men,
710
00:43:48,211 --> 00:43:49,563
did you feel it was for the best?
711
00:43:49,587 --> 00:43:51,381
No, we're not going into it.
712
00:43:51,881 --> 00:43:53,192
I was a family man.
713
00:43:53,216 --> 00:43:54,360
A happily married one. I just...
714
00:43:54,384 --> 00:43:55,736
I couldn't have the kids.
715
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,530
I was supposed to stay near my mother.
716
00:43:57,554 --> 00:43:58,739
My mother.
717
00:43:58,763 --> 00:44:00,449
That's what the parole
recommendation was,
718
00:44:00,473 --> 00:44:01,492
so that's what I did.
719
00:44:01,516 --> 00:44:03,226
I did what I was told.
720
00:44:03,768 --> 00:44:06,372
Now, I could tell you
about that part if you want
721
00:44:06,396 --> 00:44:07,540
but you have to stop it with this.
722
00:44:07,564 --> 00:44:09,149
You gotta knock it off.
723
00:44:13,403 --> 00:44:17,240
It's right around this time,
by your own admission,
724
00:44:17,824 --> 00:44:20,386
that you murdered the first young man.
725
00:44:20,410 --> 00:44:21,745
Self-defense.
726
00:44:22,704 --> 00:44:24,289
Will you tell me about it?
727
00:44:26,499 --> 00:44:28,728
Greyhound bus boy.
728
00:44:28,752 --> 00:44:30,628
Is that what you call him?
729
00:44:31,755 --> 00:44:33,840
Did this boy have a name?
730
00:44:38,511 --> 00:44:42,557
He must have. I'm sure he did.
731
00:44:50,523 --> 00:44:52,359
Pervasive narcissism.
732
00:44:53,151 --> 00:44:56,547
Personality disorder with
obsessive-compulsive,
733
00:44:56,571 --> 00:44:59,449
antisocial and hypomanic qualities.
734
00:44:59,657 --> 00:45:02,553
All compounded by alcohol and drugs.
735
00:45:02,577 --> 00:45:04,847
Grandiose sense of self-importance.
736
00:45:04,871 --> 00:45:07,892
Possibly borderline
psychopathic personality
737
00:45:07,916 --> 00:45:10,853
with episodes of paranoid schizophrenia.
738
00:45:10,877 --> 00:45:12,772
Psycho-sexual conflicts,
739
00:45:12,796 --> 00:45:15,816
a pronounced feeling
of masculine inadequacy,
740
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,278
an alarming lack of
empathy, ego disintegration,
741
00:45:19,302 --> 00:45:22,514
expressions of very
hostile, dangerous impulses.
742
00:45:27,936 --> 00:45:32,148
So? He's crazy, right?
743
00:45:32,816 --> 00:45:34,526
I've never seen anything like it.
744
00:45:35,276 --> 00:45:36,319
Like him.
745
00:45:36,653 --> 00:45:38,321
I hope to never again.
746
00:45:47,497 --> 00:45:49,183
Was there anything in what he told you
747
00:45:49,207 --> 00:45:53,187
that could explain why he did this?
748
00:45:53,211 --> 00:45:55,481
Did he say why? No.
749
00:45:55,505 --> 00:45:57,817
But, I think he was killing off
750
00:45:57,841 --> 00:46:00,528
bits and pieces of himself that he hated,
751
00:46:00,552 --> 00:46:02,488
that his father hated.
752
00:46:02,512 --> 00:46:05,181
Specifically, his homosexuality.
753
00:46:05,515 --> 00:46:07,660
We have to prove gacy has a condition.
754
00:46:07,684 --> 00:46:09,745
Loses control, loses his grip on reality,
755
00:46:09,769 --> 00:46:13,207
prevents him from understanding
what he's doing is illegal.
756
00:46:13,231 --> 00:46:15,525
Does this evaluation support that?
757
00:46:17,861 --> 00:46:20,965
When you consider
his various delusions,
758
00:46:20,989 --> 00:46:22,383
psychotic episodes,
759
00:46:22,407 --> 00:46:26,578
his complete lack of
emotional control under duress,
760
00:46:27,537 --> 00:46:29,497
I'd say it's entirely possible.
761
00:46:29,706 --> 00:46:31,332
And you'll testify to that?
762
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:38,733
I moved up my flight.
763
00:46:38,757 --> 00:46:40,693
- Headed back this evening.
- Great.
764
00:46:40,717 --> 00:46:42,862
Obviously, I'll file my findings.
765
00:46:42,886 --> 00:46:45,680
Make myself available as you need me.
766
00:46:47,390 --> 00:46:49,225
O'Hare has a bar, right?
767
00:46:49,726 --> 00:46:51,620
Gate 38.
768
00:46:51,644 --> 00:46:52,687
Great.
769
00:46:54,356 --> 00:46:56,232
- Take care.
- You too.
770
00:47:05,742 --> 00:47:06,844
We are going with this.
771
00:47:06,868 --> 00:47:09,680
Every interview, every piece of press
772
00:47:09,704 --> 00:47:11,057
that mentions John Wayne gacy
773
00:47:11,081 --> 00:47:13,559
has got to include the word psychotic.
774
00:47:13,583 --> 00:47:15,394
We drive home how unstable he is.
775
00:47:15,418 --> 00:47:17,605
John gacy, face of insanity.
776
00:47:17,629 --> 00:47:19,255
That's how we win.
777
00:47:24,135 --> 00:47:27,597
Is it a win if we win?
778
00:47:57,002 --> 00:47:58,628
Excuse me.
779
00:48:00,505 --> 00:48:02,424
You're Elizabeth piest.
780
00:48:03,591 --> 00:48:05,444
- Yes?
- I saw you on TV.
781
00:48:05,468 --> 00:48:06,803
Robert's mother?
782
00:48:07,554 --> 00:48:10,056
I'm eugenia godzik,
783
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:12,726
Greg's mother.
784
00:48:18,356 --> 00:48:19,691
I...
785
00:48:21,776 --> 00:48:23,445
I needed to see it.
786
00:48:24,112 --> 00:48:26,072
Doesn't seem real.
787
00:48:26,489 --> 00:48:29,993
The whole time, he was in there,
788
00:48:30,827 --> 00:48:32,579
twenty minutes away
789
00:48:33,788 --> 00:48:37,000
every day for two years.
790
00:48:39,377 --> 00:48:40,879
Can you make sense of it?
791
00:48:44,591 --> 00:48:46,468
I went looking for Rob
792
00:48:47,761 --> 00:48:49,804
down by the river the other day.
793
00:48:50,764 --> 00:48:52,807
That's where he...
794
00:48:55,143 --> 00:48:57,979
Threw him into the river.
795
00:49:00,690 --> 00:49:03,068
I don't know why I thought I'd find Rob,
796
00:49:04,527 --> 00:49:07,113
but it was frozen.
797
00:49:08,782 --> 00:49:11,701
I have to wait till spring to find my boy.
798
00:49:15,038 --> 00:49:18,375
The kind of... how a man...
799
00:49:19,042 --> 00:49:21,586
the kind of evil that man is.
800
00:49:24,881 --> 00:49:27,068
I spoke to him.
801
00:49:27,092 --> 00:49:28,736
To gacy?
802
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,553
Begged him for help.
803
00:49:31,054 --> 00:49:33,783
He was Greg's boss at the time.
804
00:49:36,142 --> 00:49:38,895
I called to ask him if he'd seen my son
805
00:49:40,063 --> 00:49:41,957
and he told me Greg had left a message
806
00:49:41,981 --> 00:49:43,167
on his answering machine
807
00:49:43,191 --> 00:49:46,212
days after I had reported him missing,
808
00:49:46,236 --> 00:49:48,405
that he was probably fine.
809
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:52,992
When I asked him to
play the message for me,
810
00:49:55,954 --> 00:49:57,872
he said he'd erased it.
811
00:49:59,582 --> 00:50:01,543
- That's...
- Cruel.
812
00:50:11,678 --> 00:50:17,159
My husband and I called
Chicago police so often.
813
00:50:17,183 --> 00:50:18,869
Kept telling me to trust them.
814
00:50:21,688 --> 00:50:24,917
They weren't trying like I was trying.
815
00:50:24,941 --> 00:50:27,485
I spoke to every halfway house,
816
00:50:28,111 --> 00:50:31,197
every group dealing with runaways,
817
00:50:31,865 --> 00:50:34,993
even hired a private
detective to do their job.
818
00:50:39,873 --> 00:50:44,627
All they could do was give
us Greg's bones in a bag
819
00:50:47,797 --> 00:50:49,632
and apologize.
820
00:51:31,549 --> 00:51:32,842
I love you.
821
00:51:38,181 --> 00:51:39,659
Billy?
822
00:51:42,018 --> 00:51:44,205
This is fucked.
823
00:51:44,229 --> 00:51:46,731
- What?
- This is just fucked.
824
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,984
- Why?
- Because I'm not a... I'm not...
825
00:51:51,653 --> 00:51:53,530
I'm not a good person like you.
826
00:51:53,905 --> 00:51:55,174
Yes, you are.
827
00:51:55,198 --> 00:51:57,885
I've done really fucked
up things in my life.
828
00:51:57,909 --> 00:51:59,261
I don't care.
829
00:51:59,285 --> 00:52:01,180
I'm trying to tell you that
you should care, okay?
830
00:52:01,204 --> 00:52:02,789
Me and Danny, we,
831
00:52:04,791 --> 00:52:07,627
we, we nearly killed a guy one time
832
00:52:08,169 --> 00:52:10,130
for his TV. Like...
833
00:52:10,839 --> 00:52:13,734
- Billy...
- You're not for me, okay?
834
00:52:13,758 --> 00:52:14,902
And, and that's okay.
835
00:52:14,926 --> 00:52:16,112
You know, there's, there's, there's an...
836
00:52:16,136 --> 00:52:18,197
there's a good guy out there for you,
837
00:52:18,221 --> 00:52:21,158
a guy with... you know,
he's got a good job and,
838
00:52:21,182 --> 00:52:22,868
and he's not doing
fucked up shit all the time.
839
00:52:22,892 --> 00:52:24,370
And... and he's,
840
00:52:24,394 --> 00:52:26,271
he's a guy that you
can be really proud of.
841
00:52:27,981 --> 00:52:30,108
So shut the hell up and be him.
842
00:52:31,901 --> 00:52:33,319
Be that guy.
843
00:52:34,404 --> 00:52:36,340
Get a real job.
844
00:52:36,364 --> 00:52:38,867
Bag groceries, I don't care.
845
00:52:39,409 --> 00:52:42,704
Whatever it is, I'll be
proud of you just for trying.
846
00:52:47,250 --> 00:52:49,252
I know who you are.
847
00:52:51,171 --> 00:52:52,881
I'm for you,
848
00:52:54,257 --> 00:52:56,217
so I'm not going anywhere.
849
00:53:15,737 --> 00:53:17,006
Hello?
850
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:21,427
Commander. Kozenczak, des plaines.
851
00:53:21,451 --> 00:53:22,970
It's late.
852
00:53:22,994 --> 00:53:25,097
Been doing some digging.
853
00:53:25,121 --> 00:53:26,599
A year ago,
854
00:53:26,623 --> 00:53:30,436
Robert Donnelly is walking
from college to the bus stop.
855
00:53:30,460 --> 00:53:32,772
Gacy pulls over, pretends to be a cop,
856
00:53:32,796 --> 00:53:35,941
cuffs him, takes him to his house,
857
00:53:35,965 --> 00:53:39,111
he sodomizes him, he pisses on him.
858
00:53:39,135 --> 00:53:41,656
He forces him to play Russian roulette.
859
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,240
He takes him into the bathtub
860
00:53:43,264 --> 00:53:47,119
and he drowns him over and
over until he loses consciousness.
861
00:53:47,143 --> 00:53:50,122
- Donnelly begs gacy to kill him.
- Chief...
862
00:53:50,146 --> 00:53:52,941
State's attorney's office
declines to prosecute.
863
00:53:55,026 --> 00:53:57,320
They called it homosexual horseplay.
864
00:53:58,905 --> 00:54:00,657
Now three months later,
865
00:54:01,700 --> 00:54:03,785
gacy attacks Jeffrey rignall.
866
00:54:04,911 --> 00:54:06,246
Same outcome.
867
00:54:06,788 --> 00:54:10,351
That and the two missing employees
868
00:54:10,375 --> 00:54:12,210
that you and I talked about,
869
00:54:13,420 --> 00:54:14,963
it's not a fuck up.
870
00:54:15,672 --> 00:54:20,051
It's not a miscommunication,
an oversight.
871
00:54:23,847 --> 00:54:25,181
That's a scandal.
872
00:54:26,349 --> 00:54:28,018
Ten days,
873
00:54:28,893 --> 00:54:33,165
we had gacy tailed and in
custody in ten fucking days.
874
00:54:33,189 --> 00:54:35,918
Chicago had ten years.
875
00:54:35,942 --> 00:54:37,277
You finished?
876
00:54:37,610 --> 00:54:40,089
Your boy, Rob piest?
877
00:54:40,113 --> 00:54:41,966
You know why you
launched a thousand ships
878
00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:43,426
looking for that boy?
879
00:54:43,450 --> 00:54:45,011
Makes me wonder.
880
00:54:45,035 --> 00:54:46,721
What if he'd been a runaway,
881
00:54:46,745 --> 00:54:49,289
a thug, a queer, an addict?
882
00:54:49,622 --> 00:54:52,208
How many days would
it have taken you then?
883
00:55:07,390 --> 00:55:09,309
- Hello?
- Don't be mad.
884
00:55:09,517 --> 00:55:11,912
What? Where are you?
885
00:55:11,936 --> 00:55:13,122
I know I'm late. I'm sorry.
886
00:55:13,146 --> 00:55:15,541
But I got the best reason in the world.
887
00:55:15,565 --> 00:55:19,128
I think I got a job, a real job.
888
00:55:19,152 --> 00:55:21,047
- Serious?
- Yeah.
889
00:55:21,071 --> 00:55:22,965
Your fiance's got a job.
890
00:55:22,989 --> 00:55:26,010
I'm, I'm so proud of you.
891
00:55:26,034 --> 00:55:27,386
We should celebrate.
892
00:55:27,410 --> 00:55:29,096
I gotta sign some of
the stuff for this guy but,
893
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,807
but I'll be there really soon. I love you.
894
00:57:40,460 --> 00:57:45,006
You, you just looked so nice.
895
00:57:59,562 --> 00:58:02,041
I talked to him. I called him up to find out
896
00:58:02,065 --> 00:58:05,711
if my Gregory called and he said he did,
897
00:58:05,735 --> 00:58:08,214
and that he was gonna
come to work. And...
898
00:58:08,238 --> 00:58:09,548
And I says, "well, did he ever come?"
899
00:58:09,572 --> 00:58:11,300
He says, "no." And I says,
900
00:58:11,324 --> 00:58:12,968
"how do you know it was Gregory?"
901
00:58:12,992 --> 00:58:17,056
And he says because he
had him on his, tape, you know.
902
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:18,474
And I asked him if he...
903
00:58:18,498 --> 00:58:20,393
You know, if he could play it back.
904
00:58:20,417 --> 00:58:22,419
He said, no. He erased
it. So I wouldn't know.
64834
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